"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to the Apple Insider podcast I'm Victor marks and joining me is the one and only William Gallagher sorry I can't quite hear you through these Dreadful old 2019 non-pro airpods I've got that suddenly just seem worthless and awful otherwise Hi how are you okay uh I'm great and I'm also not worthless so okay there we go the airpods airpods pro as it were first of all I I understand why you wouldn't want to be seen talking to anyone whose airpods are not professional well frankly yes plus I'm a writer so the idea of airpods pro isn't as good as airpod Pros if you said in right so the airpods pro are now available in Apple Stores worldwide congratulations everybody you can get them even if you're in remote far-flung regions of the world like William okay I could walk down the street the Wilderness like William you could have gotten airpods Pro so what are what makes these things different I mean how how are they better than the existing second generation earpods well I can tell that the thing that appeals to me is the noise cancelling feature I have been looking at noise cancelling headphones anyway the sh this I've been looking for about a year ago I was with a guy who showed me a Bose uh noise cancel thing and it was so good I really wanted it but they were about 350 350 and stuff yeah that's the one yeah I really liked it I really faned it um but obviously couldn't uh justify spending that money for the odd time so the fact that these have them built in uh that's very appealing to me fact the only thing that doesn't appeal to me about them is that I've already got the last one um so it feels um you need to complete the set William you've got the first generation now the second you need to complete the set you have to have them all so active noise cancellation for those who aren't familiar with it is the interesting technique of putting microphones on the outside of the ear listening for noise and then playing the inverted frequency to cancel that noise out so that you simply don't hear it replicated through the speakers it's amazing isn't it the things great use of science yeah absolutely and I have some headphones that are wired that are uh lightning capable that are called uh Pioneer rays and Pioneer puts six microphones on the outside of these things just to make sure that they could catch it all goodness brilliant really works well so what Apple's done is they have taken airpods they've added rubber ear tips and the reason that you do that is that you have better isolation between the inside of the ear and what's coming out of the speaker from the microphones on the outside it makes both passive noise cancellation just by isolating you better and it also makes bass reproduction better it makes sound reproduction better but it also separates the external mics from the internal speaker and makes active noise cancellation work that much better as well seriously if you've got with PA when do you find you use noise cancelling noise cancellation works in situations that have consistent noise so the the loud burst of sound doesn't get cancelled but the noise that is relatively steady like on an airplane or like heavy traffic or wind can get canceled what about I I used to work in newsrooms and I kind of like the buzz but uh is that the sort of thing it would help with if it's a relatively consistent Buzz then yeah absolutely now speaking of newsrooms that's an interesting thing so there have been some studies done that have suggested we were talking about mechanical keyboards in in the background in the Mac in the Apple Insider cabal we were almost Mac andn cabal it's been years since we had one of those in the Apple Insider cabal we were talking about the um the the sound of mechanical keyboards and there have been some studies done that suggest that the sound of two mechanical keyboards banging away or two typew rators banging away actually increases productivity and that G to quiet keyboards has reduced productivity just just by virtue of the effect of the sound on you as as while you're working so actively cancelling Out The Newsroom might not be ideal for you okay and nor F should say news have been in the last five six years are are deathly quiet compared to what they used to be um but you're saying what you do is play Apple should add an Ambient sound of typing to homepods and have them playing in the middle of a newsroom so it's funny you mention that it's funny you mention that so dark noise which is the app we've mentioned a few times now actually has a mechanical keyboard sound in it that you can play as background noise and I've I've placed a feature request to try and have multiple back mechanical keyboards typing in it he's he's working on a feature where that allows you to play multiple sounds against each other but I don't know if I can get him to do uh two of the same sound for me which I really would like C you just record it all twice and then together oh there are limits to my no we're moving on so these these things um these airpods Pro are are very similar to the former ones the form factor is a little bit different the case weight's gone up mildly but the uh you you get four and a half hours of battery life instead of five with active cancellation turned on five with it off of course and they are now ipx4 for water resist resistance um so generally better in every way except for the people who don't like the little rubber noise tips on them but otherwise the big difference is that active noise cancellation and adaptive EQ got say I don't often uh stress test my airpods but yesterday um I must have had them on for six or seven hours and different points and yeah what with putting them back in the charging case every now and again um I I lasted the whole day very easily with them I was very grateful on a really boring train ride at the end so H okay n in half an hour off of that now they they are commanding a premium Price Right formerly you could buy airpods without a wireless charging case for $159 you could buy with the wireless charging case for $199 so how much how much do you have to give up for your airpods pro because we are Pros aren't we uh stab in the dark to 49 and no choice about the case yes I got to say I really like the wireless charging case I have a a key charger from anchor next to me and uh when I got in last night I just left the airpods on there and this morning happy and gorgeous thank you I like I like to think of myself like that too yeah I'll plug you into the mains uh every night and see what happens okay apple is planning on selling up to 80 million 5G iPhones in 2020 now we're going to we're going to talk about the earnings call in in just a bit but Apple plans on shipping 80 new million new 5G iPhones um this this is coming from a source and and being reported in Nic Asian review so take it with a grain of salt but it's it's certainly on the books right we've been talking about this it's probably going to come and the idea is that Apple will use a Qualcomm chip first in 2020 and then use a chip of their own making around 2021 or later the problem is is that 5G rollout has to happen in cities for it to work and so Verizon's named some more cities that they're bringing 5G to by end of 2019 AT&T claims they're going to nationally roll out starting early 2020 um as this takes place it will make more sense but we're going to see a shift you know no one was pining for the loss of 3G when we went to 4G LTE so 5G will happen it's just a matter of of whether or not all the infrastructure comes into place at the same time so how do you see this playing out Apple releases 5G iPhones but there isn't or there isn't enough 5 gness in the world yeah it's going to be a mix at first okay wonder how that's going to play because I mean uh so far haven't we already had places um carriers claiming 5G on the phones when they're not people you people buy an Apple 5G iPhone and don't get 5G the way the world is I think they'll blame Apple won't they well it's it's really clear that if you're in a 5G area you'll get 5G and if you're in a 4G area you'll get 4G and if you're in a 5G area that's a crowded City you might get 4G or your phone will get really hot trying has been the history so far and so we're we're just going to have to wait for this to happen but this is just way it is right you've got devices that need to work with a service service has to be in place what you can do sure have you actually used a 5G Service uh anywhere I have not no nor have I I was looking to test one somewhere and it just didn't quite pan out uh at least not yet and things so I'm just going by what I read and it sounds like it's going to be great but doesn't it always I does does yeah I clearly remember uh working I live in Birmingham in the UK going through the city center when 4G was supposedly out and uh finding the streets where it would work and where it wouldn't I mean not intention I didn't go mapping the streets but I would try it in different places and be happy or unhappy depending yeah you know and as we talk about signal like this it's it's important to talk about Wi-Fi you know it's ju just as much as as we talk about the idea of 5G chip tets and phones and 5G service being available it's important to talk about Wi-Fi the same way right so for example if you had an 80211 AC device like your iPhone you needed to have an 80211 AC router in order for it to get the full speed there right yes and you know people don't always understand that and naming things 80211 AC or 80211 n or 8021 all of those were confusing names anyway so the Wi-Fi Consortium started renaming them Wi-Fi 5 Wi-Fi six and so forth to try and make it more understandable and you know I was just reading about a little bit of ago about how Apple basically seeded territory on Wi-Fi routers and gave up on Apple airports and so we' we've sort of in this state of trying to find good replacements ever since and when people buy one you tend to stick with it for years don't you yeah which means it makes forg about it it makes sense to buy a good one and stick with it right yes yeah so when you when you look for Wi-Fi you want to find things that that connect devices quickly that allow you to stream simultaneously without having any impact on speeds right so it it you can have the fastest connection to your home and it won't make a difference if you're older old Wi-Fi is outdated which is why I'm going to tell you a little bit about Orbee Wi-Fi 6 from Netgear Wi-Fi 6 is the latest technology that allows more devices to connect and stream simultaneously without impacting speed reliability um it's also known by the name 80211 ax which the Wi-Fi consortion would rather you not use uh this can deliver the fastest Wi-Fi for all of your devices anywhere in the home you can stream in HD 4K or 8K without buffering you can eliminate lag gaming and connect or devices to your Wi-Fi and it's a mesh system as well Orbee is a great mesh system so Orbee Wi-Fi 6 is like upgrading your Wi-Fi to first class and if you're ready for the best Wi-Fi ever you can get it from Netgear and never have to worry about Wi-Fi again check out Orbee wifi6 at netgear.com bestest WiFi that's netgear.com bestest WiFi and we want to thank n year for sponsoring the podcast I still so clearly remember trailing uh ethernet cables around the house before Wi-Fi was a thing oh actually I was supposed to distantly remember using the phone lines on thing as well both myself and my wife Angela would tie up the phone for hours for it you're supposed to do that talking to each other not just logging onto Facebook but you know it's Romance of A Sort definitely so I'd like to talk about the Apple earnings call Apple just had the earnings call call covering the 4th quarter of 2019 and they had reported revenue of $64 billion with a profit of 13.69% Tim Cook says that this is their highest Q4 Revenue ever fueled by accelerating growth from services wearables and iPad it's it's interesting you know they they said that they're predicting Revenue in the holiday quarter of between 85.5 billion and 89.5 billion that gross margin for the first Fiscal Court of 2020 is expected to be between 37.5% and 38.5% and that they executed 18 billion in share BuyBacks and they they doled out 3.5 billion dividends they're positive on the Tariff situation that they see the Tariff situation has changed since it first began they are preparing to ship Mac Pro they they didn't exactly uh say when but that's that's definitely happening um and we've course heard more about that we've heard things like the Mac Pro is going to ship with a black a silver and black keyboard and the magic Trackpad and uh so it's similar to having a custom option like the black trackpad of the iMac Pro and talking about things like airpods Pro the airpods pro they see as being a compliment to airpods not necessarily a replacement so if you own one you might own the second pair and have the pro ones now what we've we've already seen happening with people and you know just anecdotally talking to our friends and such is that people who buy the pro version hand down the regular version or the second version if you will and so there they're going to be a bunch of people who have airpods today and also want to have a pair for the Times need no cancellation well I I expect that people tend to just own one pair and hand down the next if they've got someone to hand it down to they haven't exactly figured out and took acknowledge this they haven't exactly figured out what the upgrade cycle looks like on the Apple watch they're still working on what that comes out like but people are clearly upgrading the thing that I think it's important to note is is that you know when they talk about services and stuff like this that Apple has always been built on the strength of the software yes they've always made Hardware but it's always been you know in the early days it was Mac OS and with the iPod it wasn't that they had a portable device there were tons of portable devices out there it was that they had the software that made the iPod great and iTunes that worked with it and back when iTunes was great and you know now they're talking about giving away a year of Apple TV Plus for free with qualifying Hardware purchases for them that's a bold move cook thinks that I mean cook seems to suggest as if it's a limited time Pro promotion uh that they're not doing that with any other services but also not to rule out that they could do that at the services it's it's possible one of the things that cook said on the call that stuck with me was there will be a day in the future when we look back and see that Apple's greatest contribution will have been to People's Health so that was that was very strong earnings call alltime quarterly R record for Mac in the US one of the things that that that comes up again and again is software quality for Apple for example we we also we always talk about bugs and and we're going to talk about bugs in a minute especially as they relate to accessibility because accessibility is one of those areas that is so critical to how you interact with the phone or interact with the Mac for that matter and we we hear that there's almost no time to fix with an apple that there's literally zero time to fix older or non- urgent bugs and that there are many more layers of management since Tim Cook came on as the CEO that problems don't and can't get communicated upwards and that there's there's more difficulty communicating between teams and so with that it's it's difficult to see that these things get fixed because it's the constant rush for the new thing that drives quality down and until Apple makes some significant changes in how they do things we're going to continue to see problems with that when we talk about accessibility it's especially important because you know if if voiceover doesn't work for example if voiceover doesn't speak the badge on the back button then then you have a difficulty knowing how to get to back wherever back is in the interface if voice over you know if you paired an mfi hearing device if you had a a hearing device that you paired with it it was made for iPhone the controls for Bas and treble have to be labeled for voiceover users um you know anything like the selection status of dark light mode toggle in control center has to be indicated to voice over users basically there are tons and tons of things that you don't even think about that come up when you're trying to design for accessibility and in the midst of doing that at the same time is trying to ship this OS with all these changes and then ship an OS for a computer as well and a TV and an iPad that's separate from iPhone all of this stuff it's really difficult and yet so critical and I I don't know what the solution is other than to say that there has to be some kind of systemic change there has to be some dictate that says we focus on quality that we don't release until we're ready instead of being on the severely cycle or just even not doing extreme features so that things grow more evolutionary over time instead of here's all the new stuff we're doing which is great for a demo it's great for a presentation but it's it's lousy when you have to use it and it doesn't work or even there are new bugs that are introduced and then there always are especially in these big sweeping changes so that's that's my concern is that apple is doing great on on these Financial reports and I sometimes worry that these Financial reports mask some of the problems that the users experience and and of course if you have problems if you've encountered problems with software you can of course let me know about them you can email us Victor Apple insider.com but I strongly encourage you to use feedback the system and file feedback on it as well because it's the only way that anything gets any attention is if you tell Apple that they really have a problem and of course sometimes they don't get to it but it's it's you don't even give them a chance to if you don't file it William I I got email today that's nice from a A really lovely fellow and so I want to I want to go ahead and say hello to users in Chicago and and say thank you for sending me the email there are some concerns where people who are blind or have impaired Vision are having difficulties with iOS 13.2 oh really oh yeah um one example of a current bug is on the lock screen using Siri by pressing the power button down uh voice orox and the whole thing becomes confused because basically the phone is talking to itself goodness uh that really surprises me I thought Apple was rather hot on accessibility you would you would seem so um so there's this forum called Apple VI or site aappl v.com and they're focused on empowering blind and low vision users of Apple products and related applications and the the lead post from two days ago is about the release of 13.2 and specifically what's going on with voiceover and the actions menu and gesture and the list of bugs that were fixed with 13.2 and the list of new bugs that are present at I'm saying that that issue of something that happens on your lock screen as you pick it up to do something that does that stops you wanting to use the phone and that sounds like that's what's happening uh for your correspondent well the correspondent situation is a little different because if they're pressing the button to invoke Siri and voice over starts reading what the interface is doing on the screen now you have two voices going at the same time and CR up Siri and even more so it's this is this is your main way of using the phone this is your only interface into it and you know there there these this forum talks about things like using a braille display or using voiceover and having an actions rotor and the actions rotor functionality isn't exactly available where it should be um this is this is a problem you know I I think that Apple has a strong reputation for having accessibility and it's it's so important that they do everything to live up to that reputation you know we we should go ahead sometime and spend a week using voiceover and really really understanding what other people do to interact with the phone because in in the past voiceover was about things you know years ago about reading the screen interface all the way through and then making it easy to to tap and Trigger things and now they've got gestures there's an action rotor and that's been a while since I've spent time with voice over I think we need to go back to it and since learn more about how it works hire somebody who is using it all the time uh to write about it could do but I I you know I one of the things I'm concerned about is when you have people with with these um other abilities who need to report bugs you know apple is notorious for having not had great bug reporting from people over the past years you know originally you had to be a developer and file a radar now you can do feedback assistant but you know their advice is if you encounter one of these bugs email accessibility apple.com and I I wonder how well that feedback they're a bit busy they're trying do a lot of things so give them some frustrating yeah we were talking about MacBooks and we keep waiting for their there to be a 16-inch MacBook Pro don't we we do and I know where you're going with this and I have a question for you about it tell me where you're going no no no that's not the question what's your question well uh as I understand it the news now is that new MacBooks are coming with scissor keyboards sometime in next year does does that mean that the the 16in one we've been expecting may or may not come but it won't have a new keyboard if it does tough call so we had thought that there might be an event in October you and I are sitting here on October what is this today the 30th 30th yes so we have run out of time in October for their to be an event I think it's safe to say well there is the financial earnings call which is a big and exciting event right on the power with WWDC and it would be highly unusual to introduce a product on an earnings call yes that's true be nice to just do it as a surprise but yes that's true it would be really unlikely and we uh yeah I mean I can't I can't conceive it just would be really unlikely and we need to remember that we're also running out of time within the the year so well they could issue an update to a MacBook Pro as a part of just a press release out the same way that they did with airpods Pro that would be unusual and it would be unlikely it could be done but it's um the machine that you get from from a press release kind of release would be probably not 16inch probably not a change good point to the keyboard because these are sweeping changes that would make sense to have a big event about yeah know I focusing on whether there be an event or not I forgot that we're running out of the year and surely apple is not going to intentionally miss out on the holiday uh sales period well doesn't have to I mean we're we're already into the time that people who have been making a big purchase might have already shopped you know we're rapidly approaching we're into holiday sales now we're we're not yet up Black Friday Friday but we're we're pretty much in that quarter of the Year you'd call Holiday okay good you know if you were going to order a laptop if you're going to make a huge purchase you were going to make it now right so I think it's relatively safe to say that we can expect there to be a new Macbook Pro in the new year but I think not at this time I think we've run out of year right so what was the news again uh about sisy Bo was it middle of next year or was it just sometime next year um mqu has said now that it's the middle of 2020 interesting that's quite a big difference then isn't it I mean he's he's saying specifically is late second quarter early third quarter okay and it's it's not clear if that's the 16-in MacBook Pro it's it's not clear if that's an updated MacBook Air there's there's really no good indication there be nice say it was a return of the MacBook I like that little MacBook sorry that's probably okay so this is a funny thing right for years everyone on this podcast you know going back to the days of of Shane and Mikey and and Neil and all those guys who are on here with us told me don't buy a MacBook Air MacBook Air is dead MacBook Air is not getting any updates by 12-in MacBook and then they discontinued the 12-in MacBook and what happened the second they announced the the discontinuance of it everyone poured out a public outcry how could you kill that machine we love that machine but Apple knows the sales numbers they know if it was selling or not you could love it you could love the idea of it did it sell no I presumably not but it uh the counter argument works as well um even though it didn't sell well it can still have a special place in my heart and it can have a special place in your heart without them making another one unfortunately yes it can a friend has just written her first book and she wrote it on one of these machines and you know it's it's been a gorgeous thing for her and exciting to see her uh uh tapping away in coffee shops that's great and I know people loved it but it's it was woefully underpowered compared to even the MacBook Air I I would say it could probably come back and this is just me hypothesizing not based on any information it could come back if it were arm powered and we get arm Max yes with a scissor keyboard wait unclear I presume a scissor keyboard has got to require a bit more width than the butterfly one have a little more depth to the device when you do that but um you know Apple's probably still focused intensely on not making machines thicker and so it will not add a pritable depth to the machine and they they need to do something we we all agree that keyboard failing is not good no no I actually haven't exper I don't know anyone personally who's had the problem I just you know second and fourth hand do hear quite a lot of it and there's also that business of uh how has this repair program and they just automatically put the new machine straight into it that kind of suggests uh lack of faith yeah they know and and I've been on the receiving end of people typing with faulty keyboards now I have a scissor keyboard on my machine and I have a faulty keyboard so it can happen even to the best of us okay it really can now let's talk TV Plus for just a moment yes you know we know that that we talked last time about Disney plus we know we've talked about Netflix and Prime and so forth like that remember HBO yeah I'm quite looking forward to HBO but just on the back of HBO's represent uh reputation I think um we don't get the channel here but we do get a lot of the shows so yeah yes it's great HBO basically over the past few years they've had some good show shows but they've really only had a couple of of breakout shows right you you can name them Game of Thrones um was the wire the wire but that wire was years ago man that was like 10 years ago yeah but it only became a hit after it had finished which is no it was a hit in 2008 and 2009 man what five seasons and uh David Simon was talking about how Preposterous it was that we getting all these accolades years after it finished compared to his previous show which it's long long gone Westworld Westworld was was pretty good um oh right I didn't realize that was HBO okay oh yeah yeah but so that's the thing is HBO doesn't like it when you don't realize that that was HBO okay sorry HBO yeah so they've been tasked with coming up with more shows that are going to be more better and and basically taking back the the territory that they've seated to Netflix okay and they're doing HBO Max as well okay now do we oh do we know now when that's coming is that why this is going on well you know it's it's May 2020 okay all right so and they're going to be 15 bucks a month basically now to to further lay this out for you does Disney plus is obviously Disney and is exclusively partnering with Verizon for free distribution through Verizon AT&T owns HBO at this point and so didn't know that oh yeah yeah okay I'm not sure where I think about that it's a very different world over there in the states I'm just thinking here uh if BT owned ITV it would just seem wrong but okay well so we end up in a world where every wireless provider can potentially buy up a premium channel and and set up their own distribution of their own video service and zero rate for free so you have uh apple with TV plus you have Verizon with Disney plus even though they haven't bought each other it certainly seems like there could be an acquisition to be had there you have AT&T that actually does own HBO and you can expect that they're going to zero rate that for HBO customers at launch they haven't said so much but it makes sense no actually actually no they have the service is 15 bucks a month and free for HBO now subscribers and AT&T customers so yeah so that's going to be zero rated for them so you end up with this balkanization where each customer gets their own premium video service for free and you have to pay for the others and this is part of what net neutrality was fighting against yes I remember that net neutrality it was a good thing yeah it was and so this is this is the thing it's an interesting landscape now as you say coming out in May 2020 though that's interesting we we should have an idea of how Disney plus and apple right TV plus comes November 1st and Disney plus comes November 12th Yes except in the UK but that's another story I said you lived in the Backwater yeah thanks for that repeat shut off from the rest of the world William what can I tell you I live in brexitland I will shut myself off from Britain if I could at the moment okay anyway Sony is shuttering PlayStation view live TV yeah I didn't even know this there was a thing what's PlayStation view live TV then so PlayStation view live TV was similar in some ways to sling TV where you could watch a lot of live channels ESPN your local kind of network channels things like this over PS view instead of having to subscribe to a cable package and they're they're given up it just wasn't popular enough or they are being squeezed out from sling YouTube TV and and Hulu basically okay I mean I I'm not a gamer so I didn't even know exist that's the weird thing is it's not games related at all but you have to have this console presumably no it works on Apple TV okay well I have an apple tea oh is it only in the states is that why I wouldn't have seen it or am I just missing it everywhere both you're just missing it but yeah it's a um no it's it's it was a network of of basically a bundle of Live And On Demand channels huge selection of channels optional premium add-ons and it worked really well and and there were tons of people using it and basically they got squeezed out well it it was named PlayStation it was not actually gaming at all it was just it was TV channels bundle okay well then that doesn't sound like the greatest of names for it I presume they were trying to piggy back on well you know it's Sony they had to ruin it somehow okay right that's harsh very harsh possibly fair fair but fair okay so hang on have we added all these things up together um if I wanted to subscribe to all of this and Netflix we're coming in on the $50 a month range easily uh aren't we um I can't really coming on on what what what are you adding the fee for Netflix Disney plus HBO Max Hulu I mean if Netflix is let's say eight or nine bucks right and Hulu with without ads which plays ads is 11 bucks all right so now you're at basically 20 bucks rounding round and then you add another five bucks a month so you're 25 bucks a month that's your TV plus and then you add another 15 bucks um so now you're at 40 bucks a month for your HBO Max in there and uh presumably you're a customer of one of these services that were so you get one of these services for free let's say that you get the uh oh which one would you get for free you might get Disney Plus for free as Verizon customer for example a customer of any of these so yeah you could get anywhere around 40 or 50 bucks if you subscribed to all of these things um and also you're going to be a Prime customer because chances are you've already got Prime anyway so you can't really count that against your costs for Prime video so well it's still money going out if it's money going out but but people who buy Prime video Don't Buy Prime video primarily for Prime video they buy it because they want Amazon Prime and they get it as a byproduct yeah if it were priced separately like Prime music I'd have something to say about it but because it's bundled into that cost of just having Amazon Prime you can't really break it out uh this this is something that we discussed a long time ago with the unbundling of TV and cord cutting of TV which was when you bought a cable package and had internet cable TV at the same time your costs were priced so that you'd pay about $120 bucks a month but you got both of those services and with the unbundling of it your internet cost goes up a little bit but now your TV stuff costs more too the difference is that you don't have to have all of it you can pick out the card a little bit so you you can keep your costs lower but you're choosing what you're going to miss out on yeah I'm just I it seem I am more interested in programs that I am in channels uh so I'll go wherever the show is that I like and in this case that's not just uh changing channels to look at it and see what you think it's investing in the the service to find out so it's going to be quite hard to make me Join one of these Services I'll need a few programs that I think I'm likely to like yes and no so one of the things that you see in the TV app on Apple TV is the first episode free of shows that are on these other services you might find you might find Katherine the Great is on HBO and through Apple TV's TV app you can play the first episode for free to see if it's your flavor or not do you know that that's happening or are you basing it on how often uh iTunes in the States has free episodes no no I i' I've been doing that I've been sampling shows from HBO from showmax from all of these from Showtime all these different things because I've been doing it through the TV app and they make the first episode available for free oh I must have a look at that I am really conscious though that the US store has so many free television episodes and the UK one has none IE if that were iTunes doing that basically or or now you know Apple TV's doing that that's one thing but these are coming from the other providers so it's it's a different Arrangement but I've been really pleased with that and I think they're they're doing that as a part of the TV channels thing and it's been working right we don't talk much about Apple TV channels uh do we um oh yes I've just fir up TV on my Mac and the BFI player uh seven days free oh oh nuts that looks quite good see okay Stars play don't know what Arrow TV is we got two of those leian something called test made uh taste made uh look if you look in the TV app there will be things where you'll you'll see about a show and it will allow you to play the first episode for free okay well not on first glance from the UK end but there's certainly trials for channels yes oh at least one of them okay yeah uh yeah the other beauty of this is is that unlike a cable subscription where you would be signed up and paying monthly and cancelling is a giant pain and they don't want to let you do it and all that stuff you can turn these services on and off at will subscribe for one turn it off the next so if you wanted to binge watch Catherine the Great or binge watch some other you could totally do that and then when you're done with that show turn off the service so you you can save more money over time and still get the things you care to see sorry I'm I'm looking at what's available to me and it's very limited here we got six uh Apple TV channels and none of them have single shows they're all seven or or actually in one case 30 Day free trials for the whole service so you're right that's great but um I can't say I'm BFI is the only Bridge Film Institute is the only one that you've got a little bit of ways to go to catch up to us as usual okay brutal I'm sorry yeah I'll stick to how our Apple pay works everywhere thanks okay you can do that that will work ni uh I want to tell you a little about CAPA so capterra is this amazing service and what they do is they make reviews available of software so that you can see what you're getting into when you're trying to find software for your business right if you're trying to find the software for your business you you need to get back to business you're not spending your time looking at software all day long so you can compare all these thousands of software options read reviews and instantly narrow down your favorites you can find the right software right now and the way to go there is of course capa.com apppp Insider so they are the leading free online resource to help you find the best software solution for your business with over 1 million reviews of products from real software users you can discover everything you need to make an informed decision and they have more than 700 specific categories of software everything from project management to email marketing to yoga studio management and no matter what kind of software your business needs Capa makes it easy to discover the right solution fast join the millions of people who use Capa each month to find the right tools for their business visit capa.com appleinsider for free today to find the tools to make an informed software decision for your business capa.com appleinsider c a p t r a that's capa.com slapple inssider capter software selection simplified well William I think we've arrived at the end of another perfectly good episode I was going to talk about homekit a little bit but I think we're going to pass on that well that's it's been a big episode Willam and we've talked about we've talked about earnings we talked about 5G iPhones we talked about airpods Pro and and of course how we have disdain for anyone who's not using professional level airpods what are we going to do next week oh there'll be more things next week this has been a great week for Apple this bound to they're obviously going be excited by it they're on a rooll there'll be a Mac Pro next next week you wait and see don't hold me to that thank I believe it and if you want to hold William to that you can find him on the internet at William at Apple insider.com okay where I will be making other mistakes as well no doubt yeah and where on Twitter are we finding you uh W Gallagher that's me what about you I'm V marks on Twitter Victor marks Victor appleinsider.com rather and uh we will be back next week with Williams Mac proo hey as long as they do want in blue in blue yeah you know colorware could do that kind of thing probably it's not the same it's not the same no no no well it doesn't matter how fast your internet connection is if your Wi-Fi router is old and outdated with Orbee Wi-Fi 6 from Netgear your Wi-Fi will feel New Again Wi-Fi 6 is the latest tech that allows more devices to connect and stream simultaneously without impacting speed or reliability the result is the fastest Wi-Fi for all of your devices anywhere in your home check out Orbee Wi-Fi 6 at netgear.com sbest WiFi that's netgear.com sbest WiFi we'll be back next week everybodyyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to the Apple Insider podcast I'm Victor marks and joining me is the one and only William Gallagher sorry I can't quite hear you through these Dreadful old 2019 non-pro airpods I've got that suddenly just seem worthless and awful otherwise Hi how are you okay uh I'm great and I'm also not worthless so okay there we go the airpods airpods pro as it were first of all I I understand why you wouldn't want to be seen talking to anyone whose airpods are not professional well frankly yes plus I'm a writer so the idea of airpods pro isn't as good as airpod Pros if you said in right so the airpods pro are now available in Apple Stores worldwide congratulations everybody you can get them even if you're in remote far-flung regions of the world like William okay I could walk down the street the Wilderness like William you could have gotten airpods Pro so what are what makes these things different I mean how how are they better than the existing second generation earpods well I can tell that the thing that appeals to me is the noise cancelling feature I have been looking at noise cancelling headphones anyway the sh this I've been looking for about a year ago I was with a guy who showed me a Bose uh noise cancel thing and it was so good I really wanted it but they were about 350 350 and stuff yeah that's the one yeah I really liked it I really faned it um but obviously couldn't uh justify spending that money for the odd time so the fact that these have them built in uh that's very appealing to me fact the only thing that doesn't appeal to me about them is that I've already got the last one um so it feels um you need to complete the set William you've got the first generation now the second you need to complete the set you have to have them all so active noise cancellation for those who aren't familiar with it is the interesting technique of putting microphones on the outside of the ear listening for noise and then playing the inverted frequency to cancel that noise out so that you simply don't hear it replicated through the speakers it's amazing isn't it the things great use of science yeah absolutely and I have some headphones that are wired that are uh lightning capable that are called uh Pioneer rays and Pioneer puts six microphones on the outside of these things just to make sure that they could catch it all goodness brilliant really works well so what Apple's done is they have taken airpods they've added rubber ear tips and the reason that you do that is that you have better isolation between the inside of the ear and what's coming out of the speaker from the microphones on the outside it makes both passive noise cancellation just by isolating you better and it also makes bass reproduction better it makes sound reproduction better but it also separates the external mics from the internal speaker and makes active noise cancellation work that much better as well seriously if you've got with PA when do you find you use noise cancelling noise cancellation works in situations that have consistent noise so the the loud burst of sound doesn't get cancelled but the noise that is relatively steady like on an airplane or like heavy traffic or wind can get canceled what about I I used to work in newsrooms and I kind of like the buzz but uh is that the sort of thing it would help with if it's a relatively consistent Buzz then yeah absolutely now speaking of newsrooms that's an interesting thing so there have been some studies done that have suggested we were talking about mechanical keyboards in in the background in the Mac in the Apple Insider cabal we were almost Mac andn cabal it's been years since we had one of those in the Apple Insider cabal we were talking about the um the the sound of mechanical keyboards and there have been some studies done that suggest that the sound of two mechanical keyboards banging away or two typew rators banging away actually increases productivity and that G to quiet keyboards has reduced productivity just just by virtue of the effect of the sound on you as as while you're working so actively cancelling Out The Newsroom might not be ideal for you okay and nor F should say news have been in the last five six years are are deathly quiet compared to what they used to be um but you're saying what you do is play Apple should add an Ambient sound of typing to homepods and have them playing in the middle of a newsroom so it's funny you mention that it's funny you mention that so dark noise which is the app we've mentioned a few times now actually has a mechanical keyboard sound in it that you can play as background noise and I've I've placed a feature request to try and have multiple back mechanical keyboards typing in it he's he's working on a feature where that allows you to play multiple sounds against each other but I don't know if I can get him to do uh two of the same sound for me which I really would like C you just record it all twice and then together oh there are limits to my no we're moving on so these these things um these airpods Pro are are very similar to the former ones the form factor is a little bit different the case weight's gone up mildly but the uh you you get four and a half hours of battery life instead of five with active cancellation turned on five with it off of course and they are now ipx4 for water resist resistance um so generally better in every way except for the people who don't like the little rubber noise tips on them but otherwise the big difference is that active noise cancellation and adaptive EQ got say I don't often uh stress test my airpods but yesterday um I must have had them on for six or seven hours and different points and yeah what with putting them back in the charging case every now and again um I I lasted the whole day very easily with them I was very grateful on a really boring train ride at the end so H okay n in half an hour off of that now they they are commanding a premium Price Right formerly you could buy airpods without a wireless charging case for $159 you could buy with the wireless charging case for $199 so how much how much do you have to give up for your airpods pro because we are Pros aren't we uh stab in the dark to 49 and no choice about the case yes I got to say I really like the wireless charging case I have a a key charger from anchor next to me and uh when I got in last night I just left the airpods on there and this morning happy and gorgeous thank you I like I like to think of myself like that too yeah I'll plug you into the mains uh every night and see what happens okay apple is planning on selling up to 80 million 5G iPhones in 2020 now we're going to we're going to talk about the earnings call in in just a bit but Apple plans on shipping 80 new million new 5G iPhones um this this is coming from a source and and being reported in Nic Asian review so take it with a grain of salt but it's it's certainly on the books right we've been talking about this it's probably going to come and the idea is that Apple will use a Qualcomm chip first in 2020 and then use a chip of their own making around 2021 or later the problem is is that 5G rollout has to happen in cities for it to work and so Verizon's named some more cities that they're bringing 5G to by end of 2019 AT&T claims they're going to nationally roll out starting early 2020 um as this takes place it will make more sense but we're going to see a shift you know no one was pining for the loss of 3G when we went to 4G LTE so 5G will happen it's just a matter of of whether or not all the infrastructure comes into place at the same time so how do you see this playing out Apple releases 5G iPhones but there isn't or there isn't enough 5 gness in the world yeah it's going to be a mix at first okay wonder how that's going to play because I mean uh so far haven't we already had places um carriers claiming 5G on the phones when they're not people you people buy an Apple 5G iPhone and don't get 5G the way the world is I think they'll blame Apple won't they well it's it's really clear that if you're in a 5G area you'll get 5G and if you're in a 4G area you'll get 4G and if you're in a 5G area that's a crowded City you might get 4G or your phone will get really hot trying has been the history so far and so we're we're just going to have to wait for this to happen but this is just way it is right you've got devices that need to work with a service service has to be in place what you can do sure have you actually used a 5G Service uh anywhere I have not no nor have I I was looking to test one somewhere and it just didn't quite pan out uh at least not yet and things so I'm just going by what I read and it sounds like it's going to be great but doesn't it always I does does yeah I clearly remember uh working I live in Birmingham in the UK going through the city center when 4G was supposedly out and uh finding the streets where it would work and where it wouldn't I mean not intention I didn't go mapping the streets but I would try it in different places and be happy or unhappy depending yeah you know and as we talk about signal like this it's it's important to talk about Wi-Fi you know it's ju just as much as as we talk about the idea of 5G chip tets and phones and 5G service being available it's important to talk about Wi-Fi the same way right so for example if you had an 80211 AC device like your iPhone you needed to have an 80211 AC router in order for it to get the full speed there right yes and you know people don't always understand that and naming things 80211 AC or 80211 n or 8021 all of those were confusing names anyway so the Wi-Fi Consortium started renaming them Wi-Fi 5 Wi-Fi six and so forth to try and make it more understandable and you know I was just reading about a little bit of ago about how Apple basically seeded territory on Wi-Fi routers and gave up on Apple airports and so we' we've sort of in this state of trying to find good replacements ever since and when people buy one you tend to stick with it for years don't you yeah which means it makes forg about it it makes sense to buy a good one and stick with it right yes yeah so when you when you look for Wi-Fi you want to find things that that connect devices quickly that allow you to stream simultaneously without having any impact on speeds right so it it you can have the fastest connection to your home and it won't make a difference if you're older old Wi-Fi is outdated which is why I'm going to tell you a little bit about Orbee Wi-Fi 6 from Netgear Wi-Fi 6 is the latest technology that allows more devices to connect and stream simultaneously without impacting speed reliability um it's also known by the name 80211 ax which the Wi-Fi consortion would rather you not use uh this can deliver the fastest Wi-Fi for all of your devices anywhere in the home you can stream in HD 4K or 8K without buffering you can eliminate lag gaming and connect or devices to your Wi-Fi and it's a mesh system as well Orbee is a great mesh system so Orbee Wi-Fi 6 is like upgrading your Wi-Fi to first class and if you're ready for the best Wi-Fi ever you can get it from Netgear and never have to worry about Wi-Fi again check out Orbee wifi6 at netgear.com bestest WiFi that's netgear.com bestest WiFi and we want to thank n year for sponsoring the podcast I still so clearly remember trailing uh ethernet cables around the house before Wi-Fi was a thing oh actually I was supposed to distantly remember using the phone lines on thing as well both myself and my wife Angela would tie up the phone for hours for it you're supposed to do that talking to each other not just logging onto Facebook but you know it's Romance of A Sort definitely so I'd like to talk about the Apple earnings call Apple just had the earnings call call covering the 4th quarter of 2019 and they had reported revenue of $64 billion with a profit of 13.69% Tim Cook says that this is their highest Q4 Revenue ever fueled by accelerating growth from services wearables and iPad it's it's interesting you know they they said that they're predicting Revenue in the holiday quarter of between 85.5 billion and 89.5 billion that gross margin for the first Fiscal Court of 2020 is expected to be between 37.5% and 38.5% and that they executed 18 billion in share BuyBacks and they they doled out 3.5 billion dividends they're positive on the Tariff situation that they see the Tariff situation has changed since it first began they are preparing to ship Mac Pro they they didn't exactly uh say when but that's that's definitely happening um and we've course heard more about that we've heard things like the Mac Pro is going to ship with a black a silver and black keyboard and the magic Trackpad and uh so it's similar to having a custom option like the black trackpad of the iMac Pro and talking about things like airpods Pro the airpods pro they see as being a compliment to airpods not necessarily a replacement so if you own one you might own the second pair and have the pro ones now what we've we've already seen happening with people and you know just anecdotally talking to our friends and such is that people who buy the pro version hand down the regular version or the second version if you will and so there they're going to be a bunch of people who have airpods today and also want to have a pair for the Times need no cancellation well I I expect that people tend to just own one pair and hand down the next if they've got someone to hand it down to they haven't exactly figured out and took acknowledge this they haven't exactly figured out what the upgrade cycle looks like on the Apple watch they're still working on what that comes out like but people are clearly upgrading the thing that I think it's important to note is is that you know when they talk about services and stuff like this that Apple has always been built on the strength of the software yes they've always made Hardware but it's always been you know in the early days it was Mac OS and with the iPod it wasn't that they had a portable device there were tons of portable devices out there it was that they had the software that made the iPod great and iTunes that worked with it and back when iTunes was great and you know now they're talking about giving away a year of Apple TV Plus for free with qualifying Hardware purchases for them that's a bold move cook thinks that I mean cook seems to suggest as if it's a limited time Pro promotion uh that they're not doing that with any other services but also not to rule out that they could do that at the services it's it's possible one of the things that cook said on the call that stuck with me was there will be a day in the future when we look back and see that Apple's greatest contribution will have been to People's Health so that was that was very strong earnings call alltime quarterly R record for Mac in the US one of the things that that that comes up again and again is software quality for Apple for example we we also we always talk about bugs and and we're going to talk about bugs in a minute especially as they relate to accessibility because accessibility is one of those areas that is so critical to how you interact with the phone or interact with the Mac for that matter and we we hear that there's almost no time to fix with an apple that there's literally zero time to fix older or non- urgent bugs and that there are many more layers of management since Tim Cook came on as the CEO that problems don't and can't get communicated upwards and that there's there's more difficulty communicating between teams and so with that it's it's difficult to see that these things get fixed because it's the constant rush for the new thing that drives quality down and until Apple makes some significant changes in how they do things we're going to continue to see problems with that when we talk about accessibility it's especially important because you know if if voiceover doesn't work for example if voiceover doesn't speak the badge on the back button then then you have a difficulty knowing how to get to back wherever back is in the interface if voice over you know if you paired an mfi hearing device if you had a a hearing device that you paired with it it was made for iPhone the controls for Bas and treble have to be labeled for voiceover users um you know anything like the selection status of dark light mode toggle in control center has to be indicated to voice over users basically there are tons and tons of things that you don't even think about that come up when you're trying to design for accessibility and in the midst of doing that at the same time is trying to ship this OS with all these changes and then ship an OS for a computer as well and a TV and an iPad that's separate from iPhone all of this stuff it's really difficult and yet so critical and I I don't know what the solution is other than to say that there has to be some kind of systemic change there has to be some dictate that says we focus on quality that we don't release until we're ready instead of being on the severely cycle or just even not doing extreme features so that things grow more evolutionary over time instead of here's all the new stuff we're doing which is great for a demo it's great for a presentation but it's it's lousy when you have to use it and it doesn't work or even there are new bugs that are introduced and then there always are especially in these big sweeping changes so that's that's my concern is that apple is doing great on on these Financial reports and I sometimes worry that these Financial reports mask some of the problems that the users experience and and of course if you have problems if you've encountered problems with software you can of course let me know about them you can email us Victor Apple insider.com but I strongly encourage you to use feedback the system and file feedback on it as well because it's the only way that anything gets any attention is if you tell Apple that they really have a problem and of course sometimes they don't get to it but it's it's you don't even give them a chance to if you don't file it William I I got email today that's nice from a A really lovely fellow and so I want to I want to go ahead and say hello to users in Chicago and and say thank you for sending me the email there are some concerns where people who are blind or have impaired Vision are having difficulties with iOS 13.2 oh really oh yeah um one example of a current bug is on the lock screen using Siri by pressing the power button down uh voice orox and the whole thing becomes confused because basically the phone is talking to itself goodness uh that really surprises me I thought Apple was rather hot on accessibility you would you would seem so um so there's this forum called Apple VI or site aappl v.com and they're focused on empowering blind and low vision users of Apple products and related applications and the the lead post from two days ago is about the release of 13.2 and specifically what's going on with voiceover and the actions menu and gesture and the list of bugs that were fixed with 13.2 and the list of new bugs that are present at I'm saying that that issue of something that happens on your lock screen as you pick it up to do something that does that stops you wanting to use the phone and that sounds like that's what's happening uh for your correspondent well the correspondent situation is a little different because if they're pressing the button to invoke Siri and voice over starts reading what the interface is doing on the screen now you have two voices going at the same time and CR up Siri and even more so it's this is this is your main way of using the phone this is your only interface into it and you know there there these this forum talks about things like using a braille display or using voiceover and having an actions rotor and the actions rotor functionality isn't exactly available where it should be um this is this is a problem you know I I think that Apple has a strong reputation for having accessibility and it's it's so important that they do everything to live up to that reputation you know we we should go ahead sometime and spend a week using voiceover and really really understanding what other people do to interact with the phone because in in the past voiceover was about things you know years ago about reading the screen interface all the way through and then making it easy to to tap and Trigger things and now they've got gestures there's an action rotor and that's been a while since I've spent time with voice over I think we need to go back to it and since learn more about how it works hire somebody who is using it all the time uh to write about it could do but I I you know I one of the things I'm concerned about is when you have people with with these um other abilities who need to report bugs you know apple is notorious for having not had great bug reporting from people over the past years you know originally you had to be a developer and file a radar now you can do feedback assistant but you know their advice is if you encounter one of these bugs email accessibility apple.com and I I wonder how well that feedback they're a bit busy they're trying do a lot of things so give them some frustrating yeah we were talking about MacBooks and we keep waiting for their there to be a 16-inch MacBook Pro don't we we do and I know where you're going with this and I have a question for you about it tell me where you're going no no no that's not the question what's your question well uh as I understand it the news now is that new MacBooks are coming with scissor keyboards sometime in next year does does that mean that the the 16in one we've been expecting may or may not come but it won't have a new keyboard if it does tough call so we had thought that there might be an event in October you and I are sitting here on October what is this today the 30th 30th yes so we have run out of time in October for their to be an event I think it's safe to say well there is the financial earnings call which is a big and exciting event right on the power with WWDC and it would be highly unusual to introduce a product on an earnings call yes that's true be nice to just do it as a surprise but yes that's true it would be really unlikely and we uh yeah I mean I can't I can't conceive it just would be really unlikely and we need to remember that we're also running out of time within the the year so well they could issue an update to a MacBook Pro as a part of just a press release out the same way that they did with airpods Pro that would be unusual and it would be unlikely it could be done but it's um the machine that you get from from a press release kind of release would be probably not 16inch probably not a change good point to the keyboard because these are sweeping changes that would make sense to have a big event about yeah know I focusing on whether there be an event or not I forgot that we're running out of the year and surely apple is not going to intentionally miss out on the holiday uh sales period well doesn't have to I mean we're we're already into the time that people who have been making a big purchase might have already shopped you know we're rapidly approaching we're into holiday sales now we're we're not yet up Black Friday Friday but we're we're pretty much in that quarter of the Year you'd call Holiday okay good you know if you were going to order a laptop if you're going to make a huge purchase you were going to make it now right so I think it's relatively safe to say that we can expect there to be a new Macbook Pro in the new year but I think not at this time I think we've run out of year right so what was the news again uh about sisy Bo was it middle of next year or was it just sometime next year um mqu has said now that it's the middle of 2020 interesting that's quite a big difference then isn't it I mean he's he's saying specifically is late second quarter early third quarter okay and it's it's not clear if that's the 16-in MacBook Pro it's it's not clear if that's an updated MacBook Air there's there's really no good indication there be nice say it was a return of the MacBook I like that little MacBook sorry that's probably okay so this is a funny thing right for years everyone on this podcast you know going back to the days of of Shane and Mikey and and Neil and all those guys who are on here with us told me don't buy a MacBook Air MacBook Air is dead MacBook Air is not getting any updates by 12-in MacBook and then they discontinued the 12-in MacBook and what happened the second they announced the the discontinuance of it everyone poured out a public outcry how could you kill that machine we love that machine but Apple knows the sales numbers they know if it was selling or not you could love it you could love the idea of it did it sell no I presumably not but it uh the counter argument works as well um even though it didn't sell well it can still have a special place in my heart and it can have a special place in your heart without them making another one unfortunately yes it can a friend has just written her first book and she wrote it on one of these machines and you know it's it's been a gorgeous thing for her and exciting to see her uh uh tapping away in coffee shops that's great and I know people loved it but it's it was woefully underpowered compared to even the MacBook Air I I would say it could probably come back and this is just me hypothesizing not based on any information it could come back if it were arm powered and we get arm Max yes with a scissor keyboard wait unclear I presume a scissor keyboard has got to require a bit more width than the butterfly one have a little more depth to the device when you do that but um you know Apple's probably still focused intensely on not making machines thicker and so it will not add a pritable depth to the machine and they they need to do something we we all agree that keyboard failing is not good no no I actually haven't exper I don't know anyone personally who's had the problem I just you know second and fourth hand do hear quite a lot of it and there's also that business of uh how has this repair program and they just automatically put the new machine straight into it that kind of suggests uh lack of faith yeah they know and and I've been on the receiving end of people typing with faulty keyboards now I have a scissor keyboard on my machine and I have a faulty keyboard so it can happen even to the best of us okay it really can now let's talk TV Plus for just a moment yes you know we know that that we talked last time about Disney plus we know we've talked about Netflix and Prime and so forth like that remember HBO yeah I'm quite looking forward to HBO but just on the back of HBO's represent uh reputation I think um we don't get the channel here but we do get a lot of the shows so yeah yes it's great HBO basically over the past few years they've had some good show shows but they've really only had a couple of of breakout shows right you you can name them Game of Thrones um was the wire the wire but that wire was years ago man that was like 10 years ago yeah but it only became a hit after it had finished which is no it was a hit in 2008 and 2009 man what five seasons and uh David Simon was talking about how Preposterous it was that we getting all these accolades years after it finished compared to his previous show which it's long long gone Westworld Westworld was was pretty good um oh right I didn't realize that was HBO okay oh yeah yeah but so that's the thing is HBO doesn't like it when you don't realize that that was HBO okay sorry HBO yeah so they've been tasked with coming up with more shows that are going to be more better and and basically taking back the the territory that they've seated to Netflix okay and they're doing HBO Max as well okay now do we oh do we know now when that's coming is that why this is going on well you know it's it's May 2020 okay all right so and they're going to be 15 bucks a month basically now to to further lay this out for you does Disney plus is obviously Disney and is exclusively partnering with Verizon for free distribution through Verizon AT&T owns HBO at this point and so didn't know that oh yeah yeah okay I'm not sure where I think about that it's a very different world over there in the states I'm just thinking here uh if BT owned ITV it would just seem wrong but okay well so we end up in a world where every wireless provider can potentially buy up a premium channel and and set up their own distribution of their own video service and zero rate for free so you have uh apple with TV plus you have Verizon with Disney plus even though they haven't bought each other it certainly seems like there could be an acquisition to be had there you have AT&T that actually does own HBO and you can expect that they're going to zero rate that for HBO customers at launch they haven't said so much but it makes sense no actually actually no they have the service is 15 bucks a month and free for HBO now subscribers and AT&T customers so yeah so that's going to be zero rated for them so you end up with this balkanization where each customer gets their own premium video service for free and you have to pay for the others and this is part of what net neutrality was fighting against yes I remember that net neutrality it was a good thing yeah it was and so this is this is the thing it's an interesting landscape now as you say coming out in May 2020 though that's interesting we we should have an idea of how Disney plus and apple right TV plus comes November 1st and Disney plus comes November 12th Yes except in the UK but that's another story I said you lived in the Backwater yeah thanks for that repeat shut off from the rest of the world William what can I tell you I live in brexitland I will shut myself off from Britain if I could at the moment okay anyway Sony is shuttering PlayStation view live TV yeah I didn't even know this there was a thing what's PlayStation view live TV then so PlayStation view live TV was similar in some ways to sling TV where you could watch a lot of live channels ESPN your local kind of network channels things like this over PS view instead of having to subscribe to a cable package and they're they're given up it just wasn't popular enough or they are being squeezed out from sling YouTube TV and and Hulu basically okay I mean I I'm not a gamer so I didn't even know exist that's the weird thing is it's not games related at all but you have to have this console presumably no it works on Apple TV okay well I have an apple tea oh is it only in the states is that why I wouldn't have seen it or am I just missing it everywhere both you're just missing it but yeah it's a um no it's it's it was a network of of basically a bundle of Live And On Demand channels huge selection of channels optional premium add-ons and it worked really well and and there were tons of people using it and basically they got squeezed out well it it was named PlayStation it was not actually gaming at all it was just it was TV channels bundle okay well then that doesn't sound like the greatest of names for it I presume they were trying to piggy back on well you know it's Sony they had to ruin it somehow okay right that's harsh very harsh possibly fair fair but fair okay so hang on have we added all these things up together um if I wanted to subscribe to all of this and Netflix we're coming in on the $50 a month range easily uh aren't we um I can't really coming on on what what what are you adding the fee for Netflix Disney plus HBO Max Hulu I mean if Netflix is let's say eight or nine bucks right and Hulu with without ads which plays ads is 11 bucks all right so now you're at basically 20 bucks rounding round and then you add another five bucks a month so you're 25 bucks a month that's your TV plus and then you add another 15 bucks um so now you're at 40 bucks a month for your HBO Max in there and uh presumably you're a customer of one of these services that were so you get one of these services for free let's say that you get the uh oh which one would you get for free you might get Disney Plus for free as Verizon customer for example a customer of any of these so yeah you could get anywhere around 40 or 50 bucks if you subscribed to all of these things um and also you're going to be a Prime customer because chances are you've already got Prime anyway so you can't really count that against your costs for Prime video so well it's still money going out if it's money going out but but people who buy Prime video Don't Buy Prime video primarily for Prime video they buy it because they want Amazon Prime and they get it as a byproduct yeah if it were priced separately like Prime music I'd have something to say about it but because it's bundled into that cost of just having Amazon Prime you can't really break it out uh this this is something that we discussed a long time ago with the unbundling of TV and cord cutting of TV which was when you bought a cable package and had internet cable TV at the same time your costs were priced so that you'd pay about $120 bucks a month but you got both of those services and with the unbundling of it your internet cost goes up a little bit but now your TV stuff costs more too the difference is that you don't have to have all of it you can pick out the card a little bit so you you can keep your costs lower but you're choosing what you're going to miss out on yeah I'm just I it seem I am more interested in programs that I am in channels uh so I'll go wherever the show is that I like and in this case that's not just uh changing channels to look at it and see what you think it's investing in the the service to find out so it's going to be quite hard to make me Join one of these Services I'll need a few programs that I think I'm likely to like yes and no so one of the things that you see in the TV app on Apple TV is the first episode free of shows that are on these other services you might find you might find Katherine the Great is on HBO and through Apple TV's TV app you can play the first episode for free to see if it's your flavor or not do you know that that's happening or are you basing it on how often uh iTunes in the States has free episodes no no I i' I've been doing that I've been sampling shows from HBO from showmax from all of these from Showtime all these different things because I've been doing it through the TV app and they make the first episode available for free oh I must have a look at that I am really conscious though that the US store has so many free television episodes and the UK one has none IE if that were iTunes doing that basically or or now you know Apple TV's doing that that's one thing but these are coming from the other providers so it's it's a different Arrangement but I've been really pleased with that and I think they're they're doing that as a part of the TV channels thing and it's been working right we don't talk much about Apple TV channels uh do we um oh yes I've just fir up TV on my Mac and the BFI player uh seven days free oh oh nuts that looks quite good see okay Stars play don't know what Arrow TV is we got two of those leian something called test made uh taste made uh look if you look in the TV app there will be things where you'll you'll see about a show and it will allow you to play the first episode for free okay well not on first glance from the UK end but there's certainly trials for channels yes oh at least one of them okay yeah uh yeah the other beauty of this is is that unlike a cable subscription where you would be signed up and paying monthly and cancelling is a giant pain and they don't want to let you do it and all that stuff you can turn these services on and off at will subscribe for one turn it off the next so if you wanted to binge watch Catherine the Great or binge watch some other you could totally do that and then when you're done with that show turn off the service so you you can save more money over time and still get the things you care to see sorry I'm I'm looking at what's available to me and it's very limited here we got six uh Apple TV channels and none of them have single shows they're all seven or or actually in one case 30 Day free trials for the whole service so you're right that's great but um I can't say I'm BFI is the only Bridge Film Institute is the only one that you've got a little bit of ways to go to catch up to us as usual okay brutal I'm sorry yeah I'll stick to how our Apple pay works everywhere thanks okay you can do that that will work ni uh I want to tell you a little about CAPA so capterra is this amazing service and what they do is they make reviews available of software so that you can see what you're getting into when you're trying to find software for your business right if you're trying to find the software for your business you you need to get back to business you're not spending your time looking at software all day long so you can compare all these thousands of software options read reviews and instantly narrow down your favorites you can find the right software right now and the way to go there is of course capa.com apppp Insider so they are the leading free online resource to help you find the best software solution for your business with over 1 million reviews of products from real software users you can discover everything you need to make an informed decision and they have more than 700 specific categories of software everything from project management to email marketing to yoga studio management and no matter what kind of software your business needs Capa makes it easy to discover the right solution fast join the millions of people who use Capa each month to find the right tools for their business visit capa.com appleinsider for free today to find the tools to make an informed software decision for your business capa.com appleinsider c a p t r a that's capa.com slapple inssider capter software selection simplified well William I think we've arrived at the end of another perfectly good episode I was going to talk about homekit a little bit but I think we're going to pass on that well that's it's been a big episode Willam and we've talked about we've talked about earnings we talked about 5G iPhones we talked about airpods Pro and and of course how we have disdain for anyone who's not using professional level airpods what are we going to do next week oh there'll be more things next week this has been a great week for Apple this bound to they're obviously going be excited by it they're on a rooll there'll be a Mac Pro next next week you wait and see don't hold me to that thank I believe it and if you want to hold William to that you can find him on the internet at William at Apple insider.com okay where I will be making other mistakes as well no doubt yeah and where on Twitter are we finding you uh W Gallagher that's me what about you I'm V marks on Twitter Victor marks Victor appleinsider.com rather and uh we will be back next week with Williams Mac proo hey as long as they do want in blue in blue yeah you know colorware could do that kind of thing probably it's not the same it's not the same no no no well it doesn't matter how fast your internet connection is if your Wi-Fi router is old and outdated with Orbee Wi-Fi 6 from Netgear your Wi-Fi will feel New Again Wi-Fi 6 is the latest tech that allows more devices to connect and stream simultaneously without impacting speed or reliability the result is the fastest Wi-Fi for all of your devices anywhere in your home check out Orbee Wi-Fi 6 at netgear.com sbest WiFi that's netgear.com sbest WiFi we'll be back next week everybodyyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to the Apple Insider podcast I'm Victor marks and joining me is the one and only William Gallagher sorry I can't quite hear you through these Dreadful old 2019 non-pro airpods I've got that suddenly just seem worthless and awful otherwise Hi how are you okay uh I'm great and I'm also not worthless so okay there we go the airpods airpods pro as it were first of all I I understand why you wouldn't want to be seen talking to anyone whose airpods are not professional well frankly yes plus I'm a writer so the idea of airpods pro isn't as good as airpod Pros if you said in right so the airpods pro are now available in Apple Stores worldwide congratulations everybody you can get them even if you're in remote far-flung regions of the world like William okay I could walk down the street the Wilderness like William you could have gotten airpods Pro so what are what makes these things different I mean how how are they better than the existing second generation earpods well I can tell that the thing that appeals to me is the noise cancelling feature I have been looking at noise cancelling headphones anyway the sh this I've been looking for about a year ago I was with a guy who showed me a Bose uh noise cancel thing and it was so good I really wanted it but they were about 350 350 and stuff yeah that's the one yeah I really liked it I really faned it um but obviously couldn't uh justify spending that money for the odd time so the fact that these have them built in uh that's very appealing to me fact the only thing that doesn't appeal to me about them is that I've already got the last one um so it feels um you need to complete the set William you've got the first generation now the second you need to complete the set you have to have them all so active noise cancellation for those who aren't familiar with it is the interesting technique of putting microphones on the outside of the ear listening for noise and then playing the inverted frequency to cancel that noise out so that you simply don't hear it replicated through the speakers it's amazing isn't it the things great use of science yeah absolutely and I have some headphones that are wired that are uh lightning capable that are called uh Pioneer rays and Pioneer puts six microphones on the outside of these things just to make sure that they could catch it all goodness brilliant really works well so what Apple's done is they have taken airpods they've added rubber ear tips and the reason that you do that is that you have better isolation between the inside of the ear and what's coming out of the speaker from the microphones on the outside it makes both passive noise cancellation just by isolating you better and it also makes bass reproduction better it makes sound reproduction better but it also separates the external mics from the internal speaker and makes active noise cancellation work that much better as well seriously if you've got with PA when do you find you use noise cancelling noise cancellation works in situations that have consistent noise so the the loud burst of sound doesn't get cancelled but the noise that is relatively steady like on an airplane or like heavy traffic or wind can get canceled what about I I used to work in newsrooms and I kind of like the buzz but uh is that the sort of thing it would help with if it's a relatively consistent Buzz then yeah absolutely now speaking of newsrooms that's an interesting thing so there have been some studies done that have suggested we were talking about mechanical keyboards in in the background in the Mac in the Apple Insider cabal we were almost Mac andn cabal it's been years since we had one of those in the Apple Insider cabal we were talking about the um the the sound of mechanical keyboards and there have been some studies done that suggest that the sound of two mechanical keyboards banging away or two typew rators banging away actually increases productivity and that G to quiet keyboards has reduced productivity just just by virtue of the effect of the sound on you as as while you're working so actively cancelling Out The Newsroom might not be ideal for you okay and nor F should say news have been in the last five six years are are deathly quiet compared to what they used to be um but you're saying what you do is play Apple should add an Ambient sound of typing to homepods and have them playing in the middle of a newsroom so it's funny you mention that it's funny you mention that so dark noise which is the app we've mentioned a few times now actually has a mechanical keyboard sound in it that you can play as background noise and I've I've placed a feature request to try and have multiple back mechanical keyboards typing in it he's he's working on a feature where that allows you to play multiple sounds against each other but I don't know if I can get him to do uh two of the same sound for me which I really would like C you just record it all twice and then together oh there are limits to my no we're moving on so these these things um these airpods Pro are are very similar to the former ones the form factor is a little bit different the case weight's gone up mildly but the uh you you get four and a half hours of battery life instead of five with active cancellation turned on five with it off of course and they are now ipx4 for water resist resistance um so generally better in every way except for the people who don't like the little rubber noise tips on them but otherwise the big difference is that active noise cancellation and adaptive EQ got say I don't often uh stress test my airpods but yesterday um I must have had them on for six or seven hours and different points and yeah what with putting them back in the charging case every now and again um I I lasted the whole day very easily with them I was very grateful on a really boring train ride at the end so H okay n in half an hour off of that now they they are commanding a premium Price Right formerly you could buy airpods without a wireless charging case for $159 you could buy with the wireless charging case for $199 so how much how much do you have to give up for your airpods pro because we are Pros aren't we uh stab in the dark to 49 and no choice about the case yes I got to say I really like the wireless charging case I have a a key charger from anchor next to me and uh when I got in last night I just left the airpods on there and this morning happy and gorgeous thank you I like I like to think of myself like that too yeah I'll plug you into the mains uh every night and see what happens okay apple is planning on selling up to 80 million 5G iPhones in 2020 now we're going to we're going to talk about the earnings call in in just a bit but Apple plans on shipping 80 new million new 5G iPhones um this this is coming from a source and and being reported in Nic Asian review so take it with a grain of salt but it's it's certainly on the books right we've been talking about this it's probably going to come and the idea is that Apple will use a Qualcomm chip first in 2020 and then use a chip of their own making around 2021 or later the problem is is that 5G rollout has to happen in cities for it to work and so Verizon's named some more cities that they're bringing 5G to by end of 2019 AT&T claims they're going to nationally roll out starting early 2020 um as this takes place it will make more sense but we're going to see a shift you know no one was pining for the loss of 3G when we went to 4G LTE so 5G will happen it's just a matter of of whether or not all the infrastructure comes into place at the same time so how do you see this playing out Apple releases 5G iPhones but there isn't or there isn't enough 5 gness in the world yeah it's going to be a mix at first okay wonder how that's going to play because I mean uh so far haven't we already had places um carriers claiming 5G on the phones when they're not people you people buy an Apple 5G iPhone and don't get 5G the way the world is I think they'll blame Apple won't they well it's it's really clear that if you're in a 5G area you'll get 5G and if you're in a 4G area you'll get 4G and if you're in a 5G area that's a crowded City you might get 4G or your phone will get really hot trying has been the history so far and so we're we're just going to have to wait for this to happen but this is just way it is right you've got devices that need to work with a service service has to be in place what you can do sure have you actually used a 5G Service uh anywhere I have not no nor have I I was looking to test one somewhere and it just didn't quite pan out uh at least not yet and things so I'm just going by what I read and it sounds like it's going to be great but doesn't it always I does does yeah I clearly remember uh working I live in Birmingham in the UK going through the city center when 4G was supposedly out and uh finding the streets where it would work and where it wouldn't I mean not intention I didn't go mapping the streets but I would try it in different places and be happy or unhappy depending yeah you know and as we talk about signal like this it's it's important to talk about Wi-Fi you know it's ju just as much as as we talk about the idea of 5G chip tets and phones and 5G service being available it's important to talk about Wi-Fi the same way right so for example if you had an 80211 AC device like your iPhone you needed to have an 80211 AC router in order for it to get the full speed there right yes and you know people don't always understand that and naming things 80211 AC or 80211 n or 8021 all of those were confusing names anyway so the Wi-Fi Consortium started renaming them Wi-Fi 5 Wi-Fi six and so forth to try and make it more understandable and you know I was just reading about a little bit of ago about how Apple basically seeded territory on Wi-Fi routers and gave up on Apple airports and so we' we've sort of in this state of trying to find good replacements ever since and when people buy one you tend to stick with it for years don't you yeah which means it makes forg about it it makes sense to buy a good one and stick with it right yes yeah so when you when you look for Wi-Fi you want to find things that that connect devices quickly that allow you to stream simultaneously without having any impact on speeds right so it it you can have the fastest connection to your home and it won't make a difference if you're older old Wi-Fi is outdated which is why I'm going to tell you a little bit about Orbee Wi-Fi 6 from Netgear Wi-Fi 6 is the latest technology that allows more devices to connect and stream simultaneously without impacting speed reliability um it's also known by the name 80211 ax which the Wi-Fi consortion would rather you not use uh this can deliver the fastest Wi-Fi for all of your devices anywhere in the home you can stream in HD 4K or 8K without buffering you can eliminate lag gaming and connect or devices to your Wi-Fi and it's a mesh system as well Orbee is a great mesh system so Orbee Wi-Fi 6 is like upgrading your Wi-Fi to first class and if you're ready for the best Wi-Fi ever you can get it from Netgear and never have to worry about Wi-Fi again check out Orbee wifi6 at netgear.com bestest WiFi that's netgear.com bestest WiFi and we want to thank n year for sponsoring the podcast I still so clearly remember trailing uh ethernet cables around the house before Wi-Fi was a thing oh actually I was supposed to distantly remember using the phone lines on thing as well both myself and my wife Angela would tie up the phone for hours for it you're supposed to do that talking to each other not just logging onto Facebook but you know it's Romance of A Sort definitely so I'd like to talk about the Apple earnings call Apple just had the earnings call call covering the 4th quarter of 2019 and they had reported revenue of $64 billion with a profit of 13.69% Tim Cook says that this is their highest Q4 Revenue ever fueled by accelerating growth from services wearables and iPad it's it's interesting you know they they said that they're predicting Revenue in the holiday quarter of between 85.5 billion and 89.5 billion that gross margin for the first Fiscal Court of 2020 is expected to be between 37.5% and 38.5% and that they executed 18 billion in share BuyBacks and they they doled out 3.5 billion dividends they're positive on the Tariff situation that they see the Tariff situation has changed since it first began they are preparing to ship Mac Pro they they didn't exactly uh say when but that's that's definitely happening um and we've course heard more about that we've heard things like the Mac Pro is going to ship with a black a silver and black keyboard and the magic Trackpad and uh so it's similar to having a custom option like the black trackpad of the iMac Pro and talking about things like airpods Pro the airpods pro they see as being a compliment to airpods not necessarily a replacement so if you own one you might own the second pair and have the pro ones now what we've we've already seen happening with people and you know just anecdotally talking to our friends and such is that people who buy the pro version hand down the regular version or the second version if you will and so there they're going to be a bunch of people who have airpods today and also want to have a pair for the Times need no cancellation well I I expect that people tend to just own one pair and hand down the next if they've got someone to hand it down to they haven't exactly figured out and took acknowledge this they haven't exactly figured out what the upgrade cycle looks like on the Apple watch they're still working on what that comes out like but people are clearly upgrading the thing that I think it's important to note is is that you know when they talk about services and stuff like this that Apple has always been built on the strength of the software yes they've always made Hardware but it's always been you know in the early days it was Mac OS and with the iPod it wasn't that they had a portable device there were tons of portable devices out there it was that they had the software that made the iPod great and iTunes that worked with it and back when iTunes was great and you know now they're talking about giving away a year of Apple TV Plus for free with qualifying Hardware purchases for them that's a bold move cook thinks that I mean cook seems to suggest as if it's a limited time Pro promotion uh that they're not doing that with any other services but also not to rule out that they could do that at the services it's it's possible one of the things that cook said on the call that stuck with me was there will be a day in the future when we look back and see that Apple's greatest contribution will have been to People's Health so that was that was very strong earnings call alltime quarterly R record for Mac in the US one of the things that that that comes up again and again is software quality for Apple for example we we also we always talk about bugs and and we're going to talk about bugs in a minute especially as they relate to accessibility because accessibility is one of those areas that is so critical to how you interact with the phone or interact with the Mac for that matter and we we hear that there's almost no time to fix with an apple that there's literally zero time to fix older or non- urgent bugs and that there are many more layers of management since Tim Cook came on as the CEO that problems don't and can't get communicated upwards and that there's there's more difficulty communicating between teams and so with that it's it's difficult to see that these things get fixed because it's the constant rush for the new thing that drives quality down and until Apple makes some significant changes in how they do things we're going to continue to see problems with that when we talk about accessibility it's especially important because you know if if voiceover doesn't work for example if voiceover doesn't speak the badge on the back button then then you have a difficulty knowing how to get to back wherever back is in the interface if voice over you know if you paired an mfi hearing device if you had a a hearing device that you paired with it it was made for iPhone the controls for Bas and treble have to be labeled for voiceover users um you know anything like the selection status of dark light mode toggle in control center has to be indicated to voice over users basically there are tons and tons of things that you don't even think about that come up when you're trying to design for accessibility and in the midst of doing that at the same time is trying to ship this OS with all these changes and then ship an OS for a computer as well and a TV and an iPad that's separate from iPhone all of this stuff it's really difficult and yet so critical and I I don't know what the solution is other than to say that there has to be some kind of systemic change there has to be some dictate that says we focus on quality that we don't release until we're ready instead of being on the severely cycle or just even not doing extreme features so that things grow more evolutionary over time instead of here's all the new stuff we're doing which is great for a demo it's great for a presentation but it's it's lousy when you have to use it and it doesn't work or even there are new bugs that are introduced and then there always are especially in these big sweeping changes so that's that's my concern is that apple is doing great on on these Financial reports and I sometimes worry that these Financial reports mask some of the problems that the users experience and and of course if you have problems if you've encountered problems with software you can of course let me know about them you can email us Victor Apple insider.com but I strongly encourage you to use feedback the system and file feedback on it as well because it's the only way that anything gets any attention is if you tell Apple that they really have a problem and of course sometimes they don't get to it but it's it's you don't even give them a chance to if you don't file it William I I got email today that's nice from a A really lovely fellow and so I want to I want to go ahead and say hello to users in Chicago and and say thank you for sending me the email there are some concerns where people who are blind or have impaired Vision are having difficulties with iOS 13.2 oh really oh yeah um one example of a current bug is on the lock screen using Siri by pressing the power button down uh voice orox and the whole thing becomes confused because basically the phone is talking to itself goodness uh that really surprises me I thought Apple was rather hot on accessibility you would you would seem so um so there's this forum called Apple VI or site aappl v.com and they're focused on empowering blind and low vision users of Apple products and related applications and the the lead post from two days ago is about the release of 13.2 and specifically what's going on with voiceover and the actions menu and gesture and the list of bugs that were fixed with 13.2 and the list of new bugs that are present at I'm saying that that issue of something that happens on your lock screen as you pick it up to do something that does that stops you wanting to use the phone and that sounds like that's what's happening uh for your correspondent well the correspondent situation is a little different because if they're pressing the button to invoke Siri and voice over starts reading what the interface is doing on the screen now you have two voices going at the same time and CR up Siri and even more so it's this is this is your main way of using the phone this is your only interface into it and you know there there these this forum talks about things like using a braille display or using voiceover and having an actions rotor and the actions rotor functionality isn't exactly available where it should be um this is this is a problem you know I I think that Apple has a strong reputation for having accessibility and it's it's so important that they do everything to live up to that reputation you know we we should go ahead sometime and spend a week using voiceover and really really understanding what other people do to interact with the phone because in in the past voiceover was about things you know years ago about reading the screen interface all the way through and then making it easy to to tap and Trigger things and now they've got gestures there's an action rotor and that's been a while since I've spent time with voice over I think we need to go back to it and since learn more about how it works hire somebody who is using it all the time uh to write about it could do but I I you know I one of the things I'm concerned about is when you have people with with these um other abilities who need to report bugs you know apple is notorious for having not had great bug reporting from people over the past years you know originally you had to be a developer and file a radar now you can do feedback assistant but you know their advice is if you encounter one of these bugs email accessibility apple.com and I I wonder how well that feedback they're a bit busy they're trying do a lot of things so give them some frustrating yeah we were talking about MacBooks and we keep waiting for their there to be a 16-inch MacBook Pro don't we we do and I know where you're going with this and I have a question for you about it tell me where you're going no no no that's not the question what's your question well uh as I understand it the news now is that new MacBooks are coming with scissor keyboards sometime in next year does does that mean that the the 16in one we've been expecting may or may not come but it won't have a new keyboard if it does tough call so we had thought that there might be an event in October you and I are sitting here on October what is this today the 30th 30th yes so we have run out of time in October for their to be an event I think it's safe to say well there is the financial earnings call which is a big and exciting event right on the power with WWDC and it would be highly unusual to introduce a product on an earnings call yes that's true be nice to just do it as a surprise but yes that's true it would be really unlikely and we uh yeah I mean I can't I can't conceive it just would be really unlikely and we need to remember that we're also running out of time within the the year so well they could issue an update to a MacBook Pro as a part of just a press release out the same way that they did with airpods Pro that would be unusual and it would be unlikely it could be done but it's um the machine that you get from from a press release kind of release would be probably not 16inch probably not a change good point to the keyboard because these are sweeping changes that would make sense to have a big event about yeah know I focusing on whether there be an event or not I forgot that we're running out of the year and surely apple is not going to intentionally miss out on the holiday uh sales period well doesn't have to I mean we're we're already into the time that people who have been making a big purchase might have already shopped you know we're rapidly approaching we're into holiday sales now we're we're not yet up Black Friday Friday but we're we're pretty much in that quarter of the Year you'd call Holiday okay good you know if you were going to order a laptop if you're going to make a huge purchase you were going to make it now right so I think it's relatively safe to say that we can expect there to be a new Macbook Pro in the new year but I think not at this time I think we've run out of year right so what was the news again uh about sisy Bo was it middle of next year or was it just sometime next year um mqu has said now that it's the middle of 2020 interesting that's quite a big difference then isn't it I mean he's he's saying specifically is late second quarter early third quarter okay and it's it's not clear if that's the 16-in MacBook Pro it's it's not clear if that's an updated MacBook Air there's there's really no good indication there be nice say it was a return of the MacBook I like that little MacBook sorry that's probably okay so this is a funny thing right for years everyone on this podcast you know going back to the days of of Shane and Mikey and and Neil and all those guys who are on here with us told me don't buy a MacBook Air MacBook Air is dead MacBook Air is not getting any updates by 12-in MacBook and then they discontinued the 12-in MacBook and what happened the second they announced the the discontinuance of it everyone poured out a public outcry how could you kill that machine we love that machine but Apple knows the sales numbers they know if it was selling or not you could love it you could love the idea of it did it sell no I presumably not but it uh the counter argument works as well um even though it didn't sell well it can still have a special place in my heart and it can have a special place in your heart without them making another one unfortunately yes it can a friend has just written her first book and she wrote it on one of these machines and you know it's it's been a gorgeous thing for her and exciting to see her uh uh tapping away in coffee shops that's great and I know people loved it but it's it was woefully underpowered compared to even the MacBook Air I I would say it could probably come back and this is just me hypothesizing not based on any information it could come back if it were arm powered and we get arm Max yes with a scissor keyboard wait unclear I presume a scissor keyboard has got to require a bit more width than the butterfly one have a little more depth to the device when you do that but um you know Apple's probably still focused intensely on not making machines thicker and so it will not add a pritable depth to the machine and they they need to do something we we all agree that keyboard failing is not good no no I actually haven't exper I don't know anyone personally who's had the problem I just you know second and fourth hand do hear quite a lot of it and there's also that business of uh how has this repair program and they just automatically put the new machine straight into it that kind of suggests uh lack of faith yeah they know and and I've been on the receiving end of people typing with faulty keyboards now I have a scissor keyboard on my machine and I have a faulty keyboard so it can happen even to the best of us okay it really can now let's talk TV Plus for just a moment yes you know we know that that we talked last time about Disney plus we know we've talked about Netflix and Prime and so forth like that remember HBO yeah I'm quite looking forward to HBO but just on the back of HBO's represent uh reputation I think um we don't get the channel here but we do get a lot of the shows so yeah yes it's great HBO basically over the past few years they've had some good show shows but they've really only had a couple of of breakout shows right you you can name them Game of Thrones um was the wire the wire but that wire was years ago man that was like 10 years ago yeah but it only became a hit after it had finished which is no it was a hit in 2008 and 2009 man what five seasons and uh David Simon was talking about how Preposterous it was that we getting all these accolades years after it finished compared to his previous show which it's long long gone Westworld Westworld was was pretty good um oh right I didn't realize that was HBO okay oh yeah yeah but so that's the thing is HBO doesn't like it when you don't realize that that was HBO okay sorry HBO yeah so they've been tasked with coming up with more shows that are going to be more better and and basically taking back the the territory that they've seated to Netflix okay and they're doing HBO Max as well okay now do we oh do we know now when that's coming is that why this is going on well you know it's it's May 2020 okay all right so and they're going to be 15 bucks a month basically now to to further lay this out for you does Disney plus is obviously Disney and is exclusively partnering with Verizon for free distribution through Verizon AT&T owns HBO at this point and so didn't know that oh yeah yeah okay I'm not sure where I think about that it's a very different world over there in the states I'm just thinking here uh if BT owned ITV it would just seem wrong but okay well so we end up in a world where every wireless provider can potentially buy up a premium channel and and set up their own distribution of their own video service and zero rate for free so you have uh apple with TV plus you have Verizon with Disney plus even though they haven't bought each other it certainly seems like there could be an acquisition to be had there you have AT&T that actually does own HBO and you can expect that they're going to zero rate that for HBO customers at launch they haven't said so much but it makes sense no actually actually no they have the service is 15 bucks a month and free for HBO now subscribers and AT&T customers so yeah so that's going to be zero rated for them so you end up with this balkanization where each customer gets their own premium video service for free and you have to pay for the others and this is part of what net neutrality was fighting against yes I remember that net neutrality it was a good thing yeah it was and so this is this is the thing it's an interesting landscape now as you say coming out in May 2020 though that's interesting we we should have an idea of how Disney plus and apple right TV plus comes November 1st and Disney plus comes November 12th Yes except in the UK but that's another story I said you lived in the Backwater yeah thanks for that repeat shut off from the rest of the world William what can I tell you I live in brexitland I will shut myself off from Britain if I could at the moment okay anyway Sony is shuttering PlayStation view live TV yeah I didn't even know this there was a thing what's PlayStation view live TV then so PlayStation view live TV was similar in some ways to sling TV where you could watch a lot of live channels ESPN your local kind of network channels things like this over PS view instead of having to subscribe to a cable package and they're they're given up it just wasn't popular enough or they are being squeezed out from sling YouTube TV and and Hulu basically okay I mean I I'm not a gamer so I didn't even know exist that's the weird thing is it's not games related at all but you have to have this console presumably no it works on Apple TV okay well I have an apple tea oh is it only in the states is that why I wouldn't have seen it or am I just missing it everywhere both you're just missing it but yeah it's a um no it's it's it was a network of of basically a bundle of Live And On Demand channels huge selection of channels optional premium add-ons and it worked really well and and there were tons of people using it and basically they got squeezed out well it it was named PlayStation it was not actually gaming at all it was just it was TV channels bundle okay well then that doesn't sound like the greatest of names for it I presume they were trying to piggy back on well you know it's Sony they had to ruin it somehow okay right that's harsh very harsh possibly fair fair but fair okay so hang on have we added all these things up together um if I wanted to subscribe to all of this and Netflix we're coming in on the $50 a month range easily uh aren't we um I can't really coming on on what what what are you adding the fee for Netflix Disney plus HBO Max Hulu I mean if Netflix is let's say eight or nine bucks right and Hulu with without ads which plays ads is 11 bucks all right so now you're at basically 20 bucks rounding round and then you add another five bucks a month so you're 25 bucks a month that's your TV plus and then you add another 15 bucks um so now you're at 40 bucks a month for your HBO Max in there and uh presumably you're a customer of one of these services that were so you get one of these services for free let's say that you get the uh oh which one would you get for free you might get Disney Plus for free as Verizon customer for example a customer of any of these so yeah you could get anywhere around 40 or 50 bucks if you subscribed to all of these things um and also you're going to be a Prime customer because chances are you've already got Prime anyway so you can't really count that against your costs for Prime video so well it's still money going out if it's money going out but but people who buy Prime video Don't Buy Prime video primarily for Prime video they buy it because they want Amazon Prime and they get it as a byproduct yeah if it were priced separately like Prime music I'd have something to say about it but because it's bundled into that cost of just having Amazon Prime you can't really break it out uh this this is something that we discussed a long time ago with the unbundling of TV and cord cutting of TV which was when you bought a cable package and had internet cable TV at the same time your costs were priced so that you'd pay about $120 bucks a month but you got both of those services and with the unbundling of it your internet cost goes up a little bit but now your TV stuff costs more too the difference is that you don't have to have all of it you can pick out the card a little bit so you you can keep your costs lower but you're choosing what you're going to miss out on yeah I'm just I it seem I am more interested in programs that I am in channels uh so I'll go wherever the show is that I like and in this case that's not just uh changing channels to look at it and see what you think it's investing in the the service to find out so it's going to be quite hard to make me Join one of these Services I'll need a few programs that I think I'm likely to like yes and no so one of the things that you see in the TV app on Apple TV is the first episode free of shows that are on these other services you might find you might find Katherine the Great is on HBO and through Apple TV's TV app you can play the first episode for free to see if it's your flavor or not do you know that that's happening or are you basing it on how often uh iTunes in the States has free episodes no no I i' I've been doing that I've been sampling shows from HBO from showmax from all of these from Showtime all these different things because I've been doing it through the TV app and they make the first episode available for free oh I must have a look at that I am really conscious though that the US store has so many free television episodes and the UK one has none IE if that were iTunes doing that basically or or now you know Apple TV's doing that that's one thing but these are coming from the other providers so it's it's a different Arrangement but I've been really pleased with that and I think they're they're doing that as a part of the TV channels thing and it's been working right we don't talk much about Apple TV channels uh do we um oh yes I've just fir up TV on my Mac and the BFI player uh seven days free oh oh nuts that looks quite good see okay Stars play don't know what Arrow TV is we got two of those leian something called test made uh taste made uh look if you look in the TV app there will be things where you'll you'll see about a show and it will allow you to play the first episode for free okay well not on first glance from the UK end but there's certainly trials for channels yes oh at least one of them okay yeah uh yeah the other beauty of this is is that unlike a cable subscription where you would be signed up and paying monthly and cancelling is a giant pain and they don't want to let you do it and all that stuff you can turn these services on and off at will subscribe for one turn it off the next so if you wanted to binge watch Catherine the Great or binge watch some other you could totally do that and then when you're done with that show turn off the service so you you can save more money over time and still get the things you care to see sorry I'm I'm looking at what's available to me and it's very limited here we got six uh Apple TV channels and none of them have single shows they're all seven or or actually in one case 30 Day free trials for the whole service so you're right that's great but um I can't say I'm BFI is the only Bridge Film Institute is the only one that you've got a little bit of ways to go to catch up to us as usual okay brutal I'm sorry yeah I'll stick to how our Apple pay works everywhere thanks okay you can do that that will work ni uh I want to tell you a little about CAPA so capterra is this amazing service and what they do is they make reviews available of software so that you can see what you're getting into when you're trying to find software for your business right if you're trying to find the software for 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software decision for your business capa.com appleinsider c a p t r a that's capa.com slapple inssider capter software selection simplified well William I think we've arrived at the end of another perfectly good episode I was going to talk about homekit a little bit but I think we're going to pass on that well that's it's been a big episode Willam and we've talked about we've talked about earnings we talked about 5G iPhones we talked about airpods Pro and and of course how we have disdain for anyone who's not using professional level airpods what are we going to do next week oh there'll be more things next week this has been a great week for Apple this bound to they're obviously going be excited by it they're on a rooll there'll be a Mac Pro next next week you wait and see don't hold me to that thank I believe it and if you want to hold William to that you can find him on the internet at William at Apple insider.com okay where I will be making other mistakes as well no doubt yeah and where on Twitter are we finding you uh W Gallagher that's me what about you I'm V marks on Twitter Victor marks Victor appleinsider.com rather and uh we will be back next week with Williams Mac proo hey as long as they do want in blue in blue yeah you know colorware could do that kind of thing probably it's not the same it's not the same no no no well it doesn't matter how fast your internet connection is if your Wi-Fi router is old and outdated with Orbee Wi-Fi 6 from Netgear your Wi-Fi will feel New Again Wi-Fi 6 is the latest tech that allows more devices to connect and stream simultaneously without impacting speed or reliability the result is the fastest Wi-Fi for all of your devices anywhere in your home check out Orbee Wi-Fi 6 at netgear.com sbest WiFi that's netgear.com sbest WiFi we'll be back next week everybody\n"