The Importance of Regular Vehicle Maintenance: A Discussion with Mike and Elliot

As we discussed earlier, regular vehicle maintenance is crucial to extend the lifespan of your car, improve its performance, and maintain its value. In this article, we'll delve deeper into the importance of maintaining your vehicle and explore the pros and cons of visiting a dealership versus an independent shop.

When it comes to oil changes, many people tend to overdo it or forget to change it regularly, which can lead to engine damage and other issues. Mike pointed out that "you know, overdo the oil or the mileage, it's way over my family gets crazy yeah maybe I made them do that um but you definitely just want to make sure they're using the right oil OEM Parts where possible things like that right." It's essential to follow the recommended maintenance schedule outlined in your owner's manual to ensure your vehicle runs smoothly and efficiently.

However, Mike also emphasized the importance of visiting a dealership for certain types of maintenance. "The dealership and the techs there more specifically know these vehicles so well compared to an independent shop that's seeing all different types and brands of cars right," he explained. When you bring your car to the dealership, they're more likely to identify potential issues and provide personalized advice on how to maintain it.

One of the key benefits of visiting a dealership is their access to OEM parts and software updates. "When you're in the dealership any outstanding recalls yeah if you haven't done them they're going to be able to say oh this needs that and just take care of it right then and there," Mike said. Additionally, dealerships have access to the latest software updates for your vehicle's computer system, which can improve its performance and safety features.

Another advantage of visiting a dealership is their ability to perform more complex maintenance tasks, such as timing belt replacements and spark plug changes. While independent shops can also do these tasks, Mike pointed out that it may be valuable to schedule them at the dealership for added peace of mind and convenience.

When it comes to DIY maintenance, there are certainly some tasks that can be easily accomplished at home. However, some tasks require specialized equipment and expertise that is typically only available at a dealership or high-end repair shop. For example, headlight alignments can be a complex process that requires precise calibration and adjustment, which may not be feasible for an independent shop.

In some cases, dealerships have been known to charge higher labor rates for maintenance tasks, even if they're not particularly complex. Mike recalled one instance where he was charged $95 for a routine oil change on his 21-year-old vehicle. "And to Elliot's other point of his question about the impact and the resale value um I think on a on most normal Vehicles I'll put it that way it doesn't really matter whether you have records from going to the dealer versus an independent shop right," he said. However, when it comes to collector cars or high-performance vehicles, having records of maintenance performed at a reputable dealership can be a significant selling point.

Ultimately, maintaining your vehicle requires a combination of regular check-ups, DIY tasks, and professional maintenance at a trusted repair shop. While there are pros and cons to visiting a dealership versus an independent shop, Mike emphasized the importance of following the recommended maintenance schedule outlined in your owner's manual and keeping records of any repairs or maintenance performed on your vehicle.

"Keeping those records regardless of whether they're independent or from the dealership I've been trying to get my kids who are now driving their own vehicles to get in the habit of keeping all their receipts and keeping a little folder in their glove box of oil changes and tire changes and Brake changes how are they doing on that not real well mom's mom's kind of guiding a little bit but yeah if you know Jen she's like the queen of people so I can you can only imagine that she's telling her children to save paper but honestly maybe in the resale paper is a good thing it's true it could be it could be right," Mike said with a chuckle. By keeping accurate records and staying on top of maintenance, you can help extend the lifespan of your vehicle, maintain its value, and ensure years of safe and reliable driving.

We'd like to thank Mike for sharing his expertise on vehicle maintenance and safety. If you have any questions or topics you'd like to discuss, please feel free to reach out to us at icloud.com. Don't forget to tune in next week for more articles on automotive topics and conversation with experts like Mike.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enforeign cars I'm Jennifer stockberger I'm Emily Thomas and I'm Alex and Isaac so I'm very happy this is the first time I've been at the table and it makes me very happy it's so much easier and nicer to be at the table with everybody so um first up this week is our first impressions of the 2023 Kia Nero hybrid so Alex will get into that and rather than a giant wholesale redesigned on this car I would call it more of a series of tweaks does that sound right yeah I'd say so yeah Alex give us a rundown of the tweaks yeah so um it's still going to be offered in the hybrid plug-in hybrid electric kind of that Trio of Powertrain so there's no gas only version essentially right so just like the last one um and it's kind of moving to a platform that is shared with the Elantra so it actually has a lot of similarities with the Elantra but on paper you're absolutely right it's looks very similar to the outgoing Nero it's a little bit bigger in some Dimensions but effectively the same size the powertrain is very similar it's still 139 horsepower little four-cylinder with a six-speed right DCT so all these things are are very similar clutch transmission dual clutch transmission um but they've improved the efficiency so I think the big thing about this car is the fact that it's rated for if you get the 16 inch wheels like we have 53 miles per gallon combined which is huge right now oh gosh yeah so it's kind of like a Prius without being a Prius shape or look I actually played a game so I go they have a screen you know in your trip chip computer where you can it'll calculate your average miles per gallon so I turn I put it on reset it and turn it off because one of my Loops is like this varied stop and go secondary Highway Loop that I do and at the end I open it up and see what I got yep 54 miles per gallon yeah I can get around 139 horsepower because this is is no rocket that is the downside that is the downside but at 54 miles per gallon I might be it's certainly adequate of course that was that was what I got in my little Loop will do obviously our formal miles per gallon City Highway combined um but for me I was pretty impressed if and again I hide it because I want to do it normally I don't want to try to optimize it just drive normal and see what happens yeah I always reset them and especially on cars like this but I do keep it there so I'm always watching it but hide it see what happens um it is worth noting that even though 53 is is amazing if you get a higher trim it comes with larger wheels and it kind of impacts a decent amounts rated um at 49 so you lose a little bit but still 49 miles per gallon is pretty amazing where's Ryan we can talk about rolling with this but anyway right um yeah it's it's kind of a weird little vehicle in some ways almost like a shape-shifting in terms of um its genre if you want to put it into one of these boxes it's kind of it's a cliche but it's a tall hatchback really right they might like advertise it as an SUV but really it's like the floor height is that of a car the wheels are the size of a car it rides like a car drives like a car but then they almost just took the top of it and pulled it upwards a little bit so you sit a little taller you have a little more cargo room yeah yeah when you say tall I was like is it though because it didn't feel tall right I see what you mean that they they made the height of the vehicle taller perhaps but right it still felt pretty low it's it is you know and if you're expecting a you know something like a CRV or a Kia Sportage where that seat is really elevating you just kind of slide in it's really not that you're still kind of falling down into the seat it's a pretty low car yeah yeah and I had to raise the seat quite a bit yeah that and the other thing which I you know it may look a bit suv-ish there is no all-wheel drive option right for the Nero so um it's kind of disappointing it's kind of disappointing I put it in it's almost a be careful like buyer beware because it really does look like a small SUV I remember talking about the Toyota CHR the same way there was no all-wheel drive for that car either it's just a front-wheel drive platform so just a caution there if it's something you need um how did you like it inside driving Etc it wasn't it wasn't bad it was just like kind of unremarkable it's you know that's okay to say I took it around the track I went on the wreck road so it was kind of nice to to experience it on different Road textures and stuff but I was kind of like meh okay it didn't it wasn't particularly thrilling it wasn't a rocket ship for sure but it was Compton it did what it was supposed to do and um in terms of like my own Comfort level in the vehicle you know everything was easily accessible for me to like change options and stuff like I don't know whoever was in there before me had like it's probably Monty because the AC was like it was like so yeah he I'm always freezing when I get into a car after him but um it was easy enough for me to make those adjustments while I was driving because the controls are super easy to use it's all like regular touch like regular hard buttons so I wasn't having to like play that weird game of like I wonder what this does or you know anything like that for that switching channel I have a story about that I have a story about that too you want to go first so again as you've heard many times we're all about give me the hard button yeah give me the hard button that I can do by feel and look at but don't make the hard button do two things so you could tell your story and how it works and why it's frustrating yeah they're they're like propagating this this bar that's below the screen down all their models so we saw it I think on the ev6 first the electric Kia that we tested and we saw in the Sportage and here it is showing up in the Nero it's this long horizontal bar with all the controls and a couple knobs which is great but the problem with it is that there's one little button and when you press it it switches it from controlling the climate system to like the audio navigation that type of thing um so over the weekend my wife Ali and I are going to a new restaurant that we're not really sure where it is and it's in this like kind of narrow road a tight driveway whatever so I'm trying to figure out where I'm supposed to turn in and we had music playing and I'd go to turn down the volume so that I can focus and I crank the temperature down to like 60 and I'm getting frustrated right trying to do everything and she's like can't you just turn the volume down like you normally do or use this that's where it always is and I'm like it's not there so it's a little frustrating I mean it's not the end of the world that's where the steering wheel button comes in play I know and I would I would make that argument but in that moment where you're coming oh for sure right trying to just get off the road you need to start like stabbing it I didn't but I should have right and that's what I was doing is toggle but it did to me it defeats the whole purpose of having the hard knob you do it so you can do it a little a little bit tactile right now you have to look and see what mode you're in for the whole bar not just that yeah so I agree I was a little frustrated by that but in general to Emily's point we're usually pleased with how Hyundai Kia yeah traditional shifter yeah great icons on the screen again my old lady eyes I like you know having all of that is that no on and off like I do here but one thing and I don't know if either of you I was really kind of taken aback and I think experienced it in the original of the road noise it's got a really high volume and I always say it's a rumble road noise I experienced it on both asphalt which is traditionally quieter than concrete but it's on both really high volume most of the time for me a low pitch um Rumble is not so annoying as like a high-pitched wine but this volume was so much and then when you needed power the engine noise came in on top of it I was like I was turning up not easily turning up the audio volume so I thought it was quite noisy I I want my hybrid to be quiet this was not yeah I don't know I did feel that especially when it's combing around the handling circuit and I was like hmm I wonder what the guys are gonna say when it comes to like the noise evaluation because I feel like sometimes too my perception of noise is different than the evaluation that is done I don't know if I'm just like more sensitive my husband will tell you I'm more sensitive to sound but um yeah um but I was curious I'm glad to hear you say that because I'm like okay maybe I'm just not out there with no it's definitely on the noisier side yeah um I thought the powertrain was decently cool I mean when you have to rev it out it gets a little kind of like yeah in general but again that's all you hear is is tired yeah like most cars are are pretty well sealed to the outside in terms of like door ceiling window ceilings you're not hearing a lot of that but absolutely that road noise and maybe some of it from the low low rolling resistance tires yeah maybe you know coming through more but maybe that was a compromise right anyway and again the good thing is it's probably fixable with a quieter Tire to some degree oh yeah obviously the noise dampening isn't great either but anyway so yeah and tweaks to your point efficiencies in all three power trains hybrid plug-in hybrid gets a little bit longer electric only range for the plug-in seven miles more um the Nero EV which we will be purchasing so we have the hybrid we will get the narrow EV according to Gabe um a little further range 253 up from 239. so again little tweaks for everything the only thing noticeable and they actually talk about it a lot is the boomerang shaped tail light so you'll know a 2023 hero I always say too when we're again I work on that best part for young drivers it was reliable at least up through the 20 the 22 Model this is probably a good car for a young driver great fuel economy not too fast but not too slow yeah you know reasonable price yeah and the hatchback whether they make it look like an SUV or a wagon the hatchback is always a super wonderful now versatile yeah cargo carrying yeah I'd say the hatch is probably better for a younger person just because the way they designed it yeah the cargo space it's um they they gave it extra volume by going like under the floor oh yeah right so you know we happened to have the ionic five in the shop at the same time and I had pulled in and I opened up both because I was like this looks weird to me when I looked in the back of the Nero and I realized why it was because I'm used to you know the the cargo space being kind of flat and going further like deeper into the vehicle right so it's like they took that extra volume of going deeper into the vehicle and like put it underneath and so you have like a lower well which could be really good like you know depending on what you need to carry I don't necessarily have a great bag so I like to be able to put things in slime yeah yeah like heavier stuff and you're having to like really lift it up out yeah that might be lift over we used to measure lift over right even of trunks but that's weird exactly yeah so ergonomics six to eight inches down over that where it closes yeah yeah I thought it would be like where you would normally keep the spare right and so I think you checked right yeah there's room for a spare but ours came with a inflator kit but it's this spare what's a spare yeah spare tire um yeah I think maybe some of that is a product of the basically the floors from the Elantra right so it's as low as a sedan a small car would be and then you get the tall hatchback shapes you just end up with this like coloring of space as opposed to they just extended right but the seats do fold and uh it kind of makes a flat floor it's not super flat but yeah so you can get some more uh depth that way as well um the other thing that I noticed you know we talk a lot in our like safety evaluations or safety discussions about like how vehicles are really kind of optimized for the 50th percentile male and you know in case you can't tell since I'm sitting down like I'm not really that Dimension um I'm not particularly tall so I had to make a lot of adjustments to my driving position in order to like see over the dash well reach my pedals all that good jobs right and as a result like it was so awkward for me because I went to rest my um my right arm on the center console but because I had to move the seat so far forward my elbow just kept falling like it just kept slipping forward anytime I like reached for the shifter or reach for anything and I was like gosh I really wish that they had extended the center console yeah and you see them slide a short little exactly and I'm like this clearly was not optimized for my demographic right that's the value of what we do as it goes from you you could be in it and Emily could be in it the next day and you know you're just fine but you're sliding off the the armrest and the value of the test drive you know right make sure when you're looking for a car that everybody who's going to drive it gets in it and does that stuff because right because all those things will matter even like the ability the falling into the car because of how low it is or you know like those kinds of things matter a lot on your day-to-day depending on like your height and just even like your health and you know I liked that I had Nemo I had to bring Nemo to the office that day I did my drive side to put his car seat in and I really liked how wide the doors opened you know it gave great access especially with his you know big clunky convertible car seat right some cars I'm like having to like you know do a little bit of air aerobics trying to manipulate the car seat inside and this was like so much easier because it had nice white access yeah they opened almost 90 degrees I think in the back there it's amazing how just that little bit more of angle oh my gosh makes all the difference it really does another day-to-day thing I'm glad you said that and I think again some of it might be because it's part a launcher in some ways but the steering column I don't know if you either of you found this but I I had to tilt it up into this like bus-like position because effectively it's at the same height as in a small car but then the seat's higher so you end up having to raise tilt it up so like the posture of my hands and wrists on the wheel is just not flatter yeah and that's totally a preference thing but just to your point about test driving it and seeing what's comfortable um and it's funny you say that because that's how I like to drive very close um not flat but I let again I have short legs like you so I'm typically much closer yeah you're also not the 50th percentile man which was not designed for me no stuff is really not somewhere all right and of course Kias are typically known for their value when you can get them I know there's some issues with supply chain so the the range for the Kia Niro hybrid about 26 000 to 44 depending on how you quick to equip it um ours was an ex trim um stickered for thirty thousand six hundred dollars including destination charge so again maybe a good value for a young driver as I mentioned so and we will give you final test results of that as well as future test results of the Kia Niro EV 2023 that we will be buying in the future so moving on to our question of the week um talking cars at icloud.com keep them coming we actually have a great video question this week from Elliott in Minneapolis take a listen hello talking cars I bought a Kia Telluride a couple years ago um right before they got really popular and my question is is more related to the sort of quote-unquote service schedule of of newer Vehicles I've been bringing it back pretty Faithfully to the dealership for the oil changes and whatever else maybe is involved in a service like that but recently I've found that it's very difficult to actually get into these dealerships um and so I've been thinking about just bringing my vehicle in for oil change is that just a local shop where I can get in easily and uh with two Busy Boys at home I'm just wondering if there's any issues with taking newer vehicles to sort of off-brand or or off the dealership lots and uh if there's anything that I'm I would be missing in terms of service by doing that and if there's any issues with resale value um if I were to uh have it serviced at just some random spot that has a drive-through it's quick thanks guys love the show I think this is a great question from Elliot and I have a great story to go with it but we got a lot of great advice from our two mechanics John and our new mechanic Mike on this question I just have a great story which totally relates to Elliot and this happens to be Ford not Kia but my husband again has this relatively new Ford F-150 and the dealership we bought it from promises lifetime oil changes so great perk I will say the dealership is not in our backyard it's about a 45 minute drive he has yet to be able to schedule an appointment within a month of when he's reaching the mileage you know because it's hard to gauge when you get your mileage or your service intervals but he has yet been able to take advantage of this free oil change for life unfortunately you just can't schedule an appointment around it so I think it's not just Kia right it's taking it somewhere else and an independent yep so to Elliot's point he's taking it to an independent dealer but uh maybe start with you Alex John and Mike gave us a ton of points but and I have some stuff too yeah um first off it's definitely okay to use an independent shop especially for something routine like an oil change um or even some other basic service but you know you just want to make sure that it's a reputable shop and maybe not just like something random you've never heard of or more importantly find a shop that's local to you that you can kind of build a relationship with um but ultimately it's absolutely okay to use them especially to your point you don't always know when that oil change service interval is coming up right right so you can't just schedule it for two or three months away so you might need it and then cram all your miles in yeah or or stop driving the car because you don't want to you know over overdo the the oil or the mileage it's way over my family gets crazy yeah maybe I made them do that um but you definitely just want to make sure they're using the right oil OEM Parts where possible things like that right but there there's still a lot of value in going to the dealership because the dealership and the techs there more specifically know these vehicles so well compared to an independent shop that's seeing all different types and brands of cars right so when you bring your Telluride there they're gonna know exactly what it should drive like sound like all these things right yeah and they're going to know what to check for um you know you might go in for it right but they're going to look at everything else and and if you're following the service manual or the schedule in your owner's manual they're going to know how to check all those other things Beyond just the oil change so um I think there is still value especially if Elliott you are following that uh schedule when you get to ones that are more major uh maybe like timing belts and spark plugs not that the independent shop can't do that right but it might be valuable to try to schedule those more in-depth services the other thing that they mentioned too is is and it's when you're in the dealership any outstanding recalls yeah if you haven't done them they're going to be able to say oh this needs that and just take care of it right then and there and to pay back on that yeah the other thing that they can do is any software updates right oh yeah so the rolling computer idea yeah yeah absolutely right your iOS yeah right so our vehicles involve so much more software now these days and that's not necessarily things that a local shop might have access to they might so it's worthwhile to ask which is what Mike said but you know a dealership will definitely have access right to those right right in the downloads yep yep one of the things too there are some diy things for sure but it it's getting to the point where it depends on the car I mean we've seen so many cars even when we do the headlight alignments like the whole engine's covered It's all under these things you can't access anything be it an oil filter to Elliot's point or a cabin air filter yet there's other cars we again going back to our own personal story we got charged you know this is the dealer caution I will give you're at the dealer they come out and say hey while we have it on the lift do you want us to grab the cabin air filter and do this and this and then you get the bill cabin air filter if you go down to your local auto parts stores twelve dollars or twenty dollars whatever it is but it's the labor and they charge you a minimum of a quarter of an hour on that labor at upwards of 110 125 an hour um so things again it's it's about getting to know your car because many times both the engine air filter and the cabin air filter are really easy to do but when you do it at the dealership and they've now tacked it on even though it's on the lift already um can be a lot more I think we paid 95 for a 21 year yeah yeah um and and to Elliot's other part of his question about the impact and the resale value um I think on a on most normal Vehicles I'll put it that way it doesn't really matter whether you have records from going to the dealer versus an independent shop right it's more that you have done it and you can prove it right the record keep the records whether regardless of where they're from I mean you start to get into like collector cars and things like that where people want to see like oh it's dealer maintained or you have every single thing maybe less important right um but yeah just keeping those records regardless of of whether they're independent or from the dealership I've been trying to get my kids who are now driving their own vehicles to get in the habit of keeping all their receipts and keeping a little folder in their glove box of oil changes and tire changes and Brake changes how are they doing on that not real well mom's mom's kind of guiding a little bit but yeah if you know Jen she's like the queen of people so I can you can only imagine that she's telling her children to save paper but honestly maybe in the resale paper is a good thing it's true it could be it could be right you're making a cutback don't make it a comeback a paperless Society is gone no so excellent question Elliot um again keep them coming talking cars at icloud.com um we thank you for joining us this episode was produced by David Abrams and filmed by Andrew Balise and Anatoly schumsky so um we'll see you next week and keep on talking cars foreignforeign cars I'm Jennifer stockberger I'm Emily Thomas and I'm Alex and Isaac so I'm very happy this is the first time I've been at the table and it makes me very happy it's so much easier and nicer to be at the table with everybody so um first up this week is our first impressions of the 2023 Kia Nero hybrid so Alex will get into that and rather than a giant wholesale redesigned on this car I would call it more of a series of tweaks does that sound right yeah I'd say so yeah Alex give us a rundown of the tweaks yeah so um it's still going to be offered in the hybrid plug-in hybrid electric kind of that Trio of Powertrain so there's no gas only version essentially right so just like the last one um and it's kind of moving to a platform that is shared with the Elantra so it actually has a lot of similarities with the Elantra but on paper you're absolutely right it's looks very similar to the outgoing Nero it's a little bit bigger in some Dimensions but effectively the same size the powertrain is very similar it's still 139 horsepower little four-cylinder with a six-speed right DCT so all these things are are very similar clutch transmission dual clutch transmission um but they've improved the efficiency so I think the big thing about this car is the fact that it's rated for if you get the 16 inch wheels like we have 53 miles per gallon combined which is huge right now oh gosh yeah so it's kind of like a Prius without being a Prius shape or look I actually played a game so I go they have a screen you know in your trip chip computer where you can it'll calculate your average miles per gallon so I turn I put it on reset it and turn it off because one of my Loops is like this varied stop and go secondary Highway Loop that I do and at the end I open it up and see what I got yep 54 miles per gallon yeah I can get around 139 horsepower because this is is no rocket that is the downside that is the downside but at 54 miles per gallon I might be it's certainly adequate of course that was that was what I got in my little Loop will do obviously our formal miles per gallon City Highway combined um but for me I was pretty impressed if and again I hide it because I want to do it normally I don't want to try to optimize it just drive normal and see what happens yeah I always reset them and especially on cars like this but I do keep it there so I'm always watching it but hide it see what happens um it is worth noting that even though 53 is is amazing if you get a higher trim it comes with larger wheels and it kind of impacts a decent amounts rated um at 49 so you lose a little bit but still 49 miles per gallon is pretty amazing where's Ryan we can talk about rolling with this but anyway right um yeah it's it's kind of a weird little vehicle in some ways almost like a shape-shifting in terms of um its genre if you want to put it into one of these boxes it's kind of it's a cliche but it's a tall hatchback really right they might like advertise it as an SUV but really it's like the floor height is that of a car the wheels are the size of a car it rides like a car drives like a car but then they almost just took the top of it and pulled it upwards a little bit so you sit a little taller you have a little more cargo room yeah yeah when you say tall I was like is it though because it didn't feel tall right I see what you mean that they they made the height of the vehicle taller perhaps but right it still felt pretty low it's it is you know and if you're expecting a you know something like a CRV or a Kia Sportage where that seat is really elevating you just kind of slide in it's really not that you're still kind of falling down into the seat it's a pretty low car yeah yeah and I had to raise the seat quite a bit yeah that and the other thing which I you know it may look a bit suv-ish there is no all-wheel drive option right for the Nero so um it's kind of disappointing it's kind of disappointing I put it in it's almost a be careful like buyer beware because it really does look like a small SUV I remember talking about the Toyota CHR the same way there was no all-wheel drive for that car either it's just a front-wheel drive platform so just a caution there if it's something you need um how did you like it inside driving Etc it wasn't it wasn't bad it was just like kind of unremarkable it's you know that's okay to say I took it around the track I went on the wreck road so it was kind of nice to to experience it on different Road textures and stuff but I was kind of like meh okay it didn't it wasn't particularly thrilling it wasn't a rocket ship for sure but it was Compton it did what it was supposed to do and um in terms of like my own Comfort level in the vehicle you know everything was easily accessible for me to like change options and stuff like I don't know whoever was in there before me had like it's probably Monty because the AC was like it was like so yeah he I'm always freezing when I get into a car after him but um it was easy enough for me to make those adjustments while I was driving because the controls are super easy to use it's all like regular touch like regular hard buttons so I wasn't having to like play that weird game of like I wonder what this does or you know anything like that for that switching channel I have a story about that I have a story about that too you want to go first so again as you've heard many times we're all about give me the hard button yeah give me the hard button that I can do by feel and look at but don't make the hard button do two things so you could tell your story and how it works and why it's frustrating yeah they're they're like propagating this this bar that's below the screen down all their models so we saw it I think on the ev6 first the electric Kia that we tested and we saw in the Sportage and here it is showing up in the Nero it's this long horizontal bar with all the controls and a couple knobs which is great but the problem with it is that there's one little button and when you press it it switches it from controlling the climate system to like the audio navigation that type of thing um so over the weekend my wife Ali and I are going to a new restaurant that we're not really sure where it is and it's in this like kind of narrow road a tight driveway whatever so I'm trying to figure out where I'm supposed to turn in and we had music playing and I'd go to turn down the volume so that I can focus and I crank the temperature down to like 60 and I'm getting frustrated right trying to do everything and she's like can't you just turn the volume down like you normally do or use this that's where it always is and I'm like it's not there so it's a little frustrating I mean it's not the end of the world that's where the steering wheel button comes in play I know and I would I would make that argument but in that moment where you're coming oh for sure right trying to just get off the road you need to start like stabbing it I didn't but I should have right and that's what I was doing is toggle but it did to me it defeats the whole purpose of having the hard knob you do it so you can do it a little a little bit tactile right now you have to look and see what mode you're in for the whole bar not just that yeah so I agree I was a little frustrated by that but in general to Emily's point we're usually pleased with how Hyundai Kia yeah traditional shifter yeah great icons on the screen again my old lady eyes I like you know having all of that is that no on and off like I do here but one thing and I don't know if either of you I was really kind of taken aback and I think experienced it in the original of the road noise it's got a really high volume and I always say it's a rumble road noise I experienced it on both asphalt which is traditionally quieter than concrete but it's on both really high volume most of the time for me a low pitch um Rumble is not so annoying as like a high-pitched wine but this volume was so much and then when you needed power the engine noise came in on top of it I was like I was turning up not easily turning up the audio volume so I thought it was quite noisy I I want my hybrid to be quiet this was not yeah I don't know I did feel that especially when it's combing around the handling circuit and I was like hmm I wonder what the guys are gonna say when it comes to like the noise evaluation because I feel like sometimes too my perception of noise is different than the evaluation that is done I don't know if I'm just like more sensitive my husband will tell you I'm more sensitive to sound but um yeah um but I was curious I'm glad to hear you say that because I'm like okay maybe I'm just not out there with no it's definitely on the noisier side yeah um I thought the powertrain was decently cool I mean when you have to rev it out it gets a little kind of like yeah in general but again that's all you hear is is tired yeah like most cars are are pretty well sealed to the outside in terms of like door ceiling window ceilings you're not hearing a lot of that but absolutely that road noise and maybe some of it from the low low rolling resistance tires yeah maybe you know coming through more but maybe that was a compromise right anyway and again the good thing is it's probably fixable with a quieter Tire to some degree oh yeah obviously the noise dampening isn't great either but anyway so yeah and tweaks to your point efficiencies in all three power trains hybrid plug-in hybrid gets a little bit longer electric only range for the plug-in seven miles more um the Nero EV which we will be purchasing so we have the hybrid we will get the narrow EV according to Gabe um a little further range 253 up from 239. so again little tweaks for everything the only thing noticeable and they actually talk about it a lot is the boomerang shaped tail light so you'll know a 2023 hero I always say too when we're again I work on that best part for young drivers it was reliable at least up through the 20 the 22 Model this is probably a good car for a young driver great fuel economy not too fast but not too slow yeah you know reasonable price yeah and the hatchback whether they make it look like an SUV or a wagon the hatchback is always a super wonderful now versatile yeah cargo carrying yeah I'd say the hatch is probably better for a younger person just because the way they designed it yeah the cargo space it's um they they gave it extra volume by going like under the floor oh yeah right so you know we happened to have the ionic five in the shop at the same time and I had pulled in and I opened up both because I was like this looks weird to me when I looked in the back of the Nero and I realized why it was because I'm used to you know the the cargo space being kind of flat and going further like deeper into the vehicle right so it's like they took that extra volume of going deeper into the vehicle and like put it underneath and so you have like a lower well which could be really good like you know depending on what you need to carry I don't necessarily have a great bag so I like to be able to put things in slime yeah yeah like heavier stuff and you're having to like really lift it up out yeah that might be lift over we used to measure lift over right even of trunks but that's weird exactly yeah so ergonomics six to eight inches down over that where it closes yeah yeah I thought it would be like where you would normally keep the spare right and so I think you checked right yeah there's room for a spare but ours came with a inflator kit but it's this spare what's a spare yeah spare tire um yeah I think maybe some of that is a product of the basically the floors from the Elantra right so it's as low as a sedan a small car would be and then you get the tall hatchback shapes you just end up with this like coloring of space as opposed to they just extended right but the seats do fold and uh it kind of makes a flat floor it's not super flat but yeah so you can get some more uh depth that way as well um the other thing that I noticed you know we talk a lot in our like safety evaluations or safety discussions about like how vehicles are really kind of optimized for the 50th percentile male and you know in case you can't tell since I'm sitting down like I'm not really that Dimension um I'm not particularly tall so I had to make a lot of adjustments to my driving position in order to like see over the dash well reach my pedals all that good jobs right and as a result like it was so awkward for me because I went to rest my um my right arm on the center console but because I had to move the seat so far forward my elbow just kept falling like it just kept slipping forward anytime I like reached for the shifter or reach for anything and I was like gosh I really wish that they had extended the center console yeah and you see them slide a short little exactly and I'm like this clearly was not optimized for my demographic right that's the value of what we do as it goes from you you could be in it and Emily could be in it the next day and you know you're just fine but you're sliding off the the armrest and the value of the test drive you know right make sure when you're looking for a car that everybody who's going to drive it gets in it and does that stuff because right because all those things will matter even like the ability the falling into the car because of how low it is or you know like those kinds of things matter a lot on your day-to-day depending on like your height and just even like your health and you know I liked that I had Nemo I had to bring Nemo to the office that day I did my drive side to put his car seat in and I really liked how wide the doors opened you know it gave great access especially with his you know big clunky convertible car seat right some cars I'm like having to like you know do a little bit of air aerobics trying to manipulate the car seat inside and this was like so much easier because it had nice white access yeah they opened almost 90 degrees I think in the back there it's amazing how just that little bit more of angle oh my gosh makes all the difference it really does another day-to-day thing I'm glad you said that and I think again some of it might be because it's part a launcher in some ways but the steering column I don't know if you either of you found this but I I had to tilt it up into this like bus-like position because effectively it's at the same height as in a small car but then the seat's higher so you end up having to raise tilt it up so like the posture of my hands and wrists on the wheel is just not flatter yeah and that's totally a preference thing but just to your point about test driving it and seeing what's comfortable um and it's funny you say that because that's how I like to drive very close um not flat but I let again I have short legs like you so I'm typically much closer yeah you're also not the 50th percentile man which was not designed for me no stuff is really not somewhere all right and of course Kias are typically known for their value when you can get them I know there's some issues with supply chain so the the range for the Kia Niro hybrid about 26 000 to 44 depending on how you quick to equip it um ours was an ex trim um stickered for thirty thousand six hundred dollars including destination charge so again maybe a good value for a young driver as I mentioned so and we will give you final test results of that as well as future test results of the Kia Niro EV 2023 that we will be buying in the future so moving on to our question of the week um talking cars at icloud.com keep them coming we actually have a great video question this week from Elliott in Minneapolis take a listen hello talking cars I bought a Kia Telluride a couple years ago um right before they got really popular and my question is is more related to the sort of quote-unquote service schedule of of newer Vehicles I've been bringing it back pretty Faithfully to the dealership for the oil changes and whatever else maybe is involved in a service like that but recently I've found that it's very difficult to actually get into these dealerships um and so I've been thinking about just bringing my vehicle in for oil change is that just a local shop where I can get in easily and uh with two Busy Boys at home I'm just wondering if there's any issues with taking newer vehicles to sort of off-brand or or off the dealership lots and uh if there's anything that I'm I would be missing in terms of service by doing that and if there's any issues with resale value um if I were to uh have it serviced at just some random spot that has a drive-through it's quick thanks guys love the show I think this is a great question from Elliot and I have a great story to go with it but we got a lot of great advice from our two mechanics John and our new mechanic Mike on this question I just have a great story which totally relates to Elliot and this happens to be Ford not Kia but my husband again has this relatively new Ford F-150 and the dealership we bought it from promises lifetime oil changes so great perk I will say the dealership is not in our backyard it's about a 45 minute drive he has yet to be able to schedule an appointment within a month of when he's reaching the mileage you know because it's hard to gauge when you get your mileage or your service intervals but he has yet been able to take advantage of this free oil change for life unfortunately you just can't schedule an appointment around it so I think it's not just Kia right it's taking it somewhere else and an independent yep so to Elliot's point he's taking it to an independent dealer but uh maybe start with you Alex John and Mike gave us a ton of points but and I have some stuff too yeah um first off it's definitely okay to use an independent shop especially for something routine like an oil change um or even some other basic service but you know you just want to make sure that it's a reputable shop and maybe not just like something random you've never heard of or more importantly find a shop that's local to you that you can kind of build a relationship with um but ultimately it's absolutely okay to use them especially to your point you don't always know when that oil change service interval is coming up right right so you can't just schedule it for two or three months away so you might need it and then cram all your miles in yeah or or stop driving the car because you don't want to you know over overdo the the oil or the mileage it's way over my family gets crazy yeah maybe I made them do that um but you definitely just want to make sure they're using the right oil OEM Parts where possible things like that right but there there's still a lot of value in going to the dealership because the dealership and the techs there more specifically know these vehicles so well compared to an independent shop that's seeing all different types and brands of cars right so when you bring your Telluride there they're gonna know exactly what it should drive like sound like all these things right yeah and they're going to know what to check for um you know you might go in for it right but they're going to look at everything else and and if you're following the service manual or the schedule in your owner's manual they're going to know how to check all those other things Beyond just the oil change so um I think there is still value especially if Elliott you are following that uh schedule when you get to ones that are more major uh maybe like timing belts and spark plugs not that the independent shop can't do that right but it might be valuable to try to schedule those more in-depth services the other thing that they mentioned too is is and it's when you're in the dealership any outstanding recalls yeah if you haven't done them they're going to be able to say oh this needs that and just take care of it right then and there and to pay back on that yeah the other thing that they can do is any software updates right oh yeah so the rolling computer idea yeah yeah absolutely right your iOS yeah right so our vehicles involve so much more software now these days and that's not necessarily things that a local shop might have access to they might so it's worthwhile to ask which is what Mike said but you know a dealership will definitely have access right to those right right in the downloads yep yep one of the things too there are some diy things for sure but it it's getting to the point where it depends on the car I mean we've seen so many cars even when we do the headlight alignments like the whole engine's covered It's all under these things you can't access anything be it an oil filter to Elliot's point or a cabin air filter yet there's other cars we again going back to our own personal story we got charged you know this is the dealer caution I will give you're at the dealer they come out and say hey while we have it on the lift do you want us to grab the cabin air filter and do this and this and then you get the bill cabin air filter if you go down to your local auto parts stores twelve dollars or twenty dollars whatever it is but it's the labor and they charge you a minimum of a quarter of an hour on that labor at upwards of 110 125 an hour um so things again it's it's about getting to know your car because many times both the engine air filter and the cabin air filter are really easy to do but when you do it at the dealership and they've now tacked it on even though it's on the lift already um can be a lot more I think we paid 95 for a 21 year yeah yeah um and and to Elliot's other part of his question about the impact and the resale value um I think on a on most normal Vehicles I'll put it that way it doesn't really matter whether you have records from going to the dealer versus an independent shop right it's more that you have done it and you can prove it right the record keep the records whether regardless of where they're from I mean you start to get into like collector cars and things like that where people want to see like oh it's dealer maintained or you have every single thing maybe less important right um but yeah just keeping those records regardless of of whether they're independent or from the dealership I've been trying to get my kids who are now driving their own vehicles to get in the habit of keeping all their receipts and keeping a little folder in their glove box of oil changes and tire changes and Brake changes how are they doing on that not real well mom's mom's kind of guiding a little bit but yeah if you know Jen she's like the queen of people so I can you can only imagine that she's telling her children to save paper but honestly maybe in the resale paper is a good thing it's true it could be it could be right you're making a cutback don't make it a comeback a paperless Society is gone no so excellent question Elliot um again keep them coming talking cars at icloud.com um we thank you for joining us this episode was produced by David Abrams and filmed by Andrew Balise and Anatoly schumsky so um we'll see you next week and keep on talking cars foreignforeign cars I'm Jennifer stockberger I'm Emily Thomas and I'm Alex and Isaac so I'm very happy this is the first time I've been at the table and it makes me very happy it's so much easier and nicer to be at the table with everybody so um first up this week is our first impressions of the 2023 Kia Nero hybrid so Alex will get into that and rather than a giant wholesale redesigned on this car I would call it more of a series of tweaks does that sound right yeah I'd say so yeah Alex give us a rundown of the tweaks yeah so um it's still going to be offered in the hybrid plug-in hybrid electric kind of that Trio of Powertrain so there's no gas only version essentially right so just like the last one um and it's kind of moving to a platform that is shared with the Elantra so it actually has a lot of similarities with the Elantra but on paper you're absolutely right it's looks very similar to the outgoing Nero it's a little bit bigger in some Dimensions but effectively the same size the powertrain is very similar it's still 139 horsepower little four-cylinder with a six-speed right DCT so all these things are are very similar clutch transmission dual clutch transmission um but they've improved the efficiency so I think the big thing about this car is the fact that it's rated for if you get the 16 inch wheels like we have 53 miles per gallon combined which is huge right now oh gosh yeah so it's kind of like a Prius without being a Prius shape or look I actually played a game so I go they have a screen you know in your trip chip computer where you can it'll calculate your average miles per gallon so I turn I put it on reset it and turn it off because one of my Loops is like this varied stop and go secondary Highway Loop that I do and at the end I open it up and see what I got yep 54 miles per gallon yeah I can get around 139 horsepower because this is is no rocket that is the downside that is the downside but at 54 miles per gallon I might be it's certainly adequate of course that was that was what I got in my little Loop will do obviously our formal miles per gallon City Highway combined um but for me I was pretty impressed if and again I hide it because I want to do it normally I don't want to try to optimize it just drive normal and see what happens yeah I always reset them and especially on cars like this but I do keep it there so I'm always watching it but hide it see what happens um it is worth noting that even though 53 is is amazing if you get a higher trim it comes with larger wheels and it kind of impacts a decent amounts rated um at 49 so you lose a little bit but still 49 miles per gallon is pretty amazing where's Ryan we can talk about rolling with this but anyway right um yeah it's it's kind of a weird little vehicle in some ways almost like a shape-shifting in terms of um its genre if you want to put it into one of these boxes it's kind of it's a cliche but it's a tall hatchback really right they might like advertise it as an SUV but really it's like the floor height is that of a car the wheels are the size of a car it rides like a car drives like a car but then they almost just took the top of it and pulled it upwards a little bit so you sit a little taller you have a little more cargo room yeah yeah when you say tall I was like is it though because it didn't feel tall right I see what you mean that they they made the height of the vehicle taller perhaps but right it still felt pretty low it's it is you know and if you're expecting a you know something like a CRV or a Kia Sportage where that seat is really elevating you just kind of slide in it's really not that you're still kind of falling down into the seat it's a pretty low car yeah yeah and I had to raise the seat quite a bit yeah that and the other thing which I you know it may look a bit suv-ish there is no all-wheel drive option right for the Nero so um it's kind of disappointing it's kind of disappointing I put it in it's almost a be careful like buyer beware because it really does look like a small SUV I remember talking about the Toyota CHR the same way there was no all-wheel drive for that car either it's just a front-wheel drive platform so just a caution there if it's something you need um how did you like it inside driving Etc it wasn't it wasn't bad it was just like kind of unremarkable it's you know that's okay to say I took it around the track I went on the wreck road so it was kind of nice to to experience it on different Road textures and stuff but I was kind of like meh okay it didn't it wasn't particularly thrilling it wasn't a rocket ship for sure but it was Compton it did what it was supposed to do and um in terms of like my own Comfort level in the vehicle you know everything was easily accessible for me to like change options and stuff like I don't know whoever was in there before me had like it's probably Monty because the AC was like it was like so yeah he I'm always freezing when I get into a car after him but um it was easy enough for me to make those adjustments while I was driving because the controls are super easy to use it's all like regular touch like regular hard buttons so I wasn't having to like play that weird game of like I wonder what this does or you know anything like that for that switching channel I have a story about that I have a story about that too you want to go first so again as you've heard many times we're all about give me the hard button yeah give me the hard button that I can do by feel and look at but don't make the hard button do two things so you could tell your story and how it works and why it's frustrating yeah they're they're like propagating this this bar that's below the screen down all their models so we saw it I think on the ev6 first the electric Kia that we tested and we saw in the Sportage and here it is showing up in the Nero it's this long horizontal bar with all the controls and a couple knobs which is great but the problem with it is that there's one little button and when you press it it switches it from controlling the climate system to like the audio navigation that type of thing um so over the weekend my wife Ali and I are going to a new restaurant that we're not really sure where it is and it's in this like kind of narrow road a tight driveway whatever so I'm trying to figure out where I'm supposed to turn in and we had music playing and I'd go to turn down the volume so that I can focus and I crank the temperature down to like 60 and I'm getting frustrated right trying to do everything and she's like can't you just turn the volume down like you normally do or use this that's where it always is and I'm like it's not there so it's a little frustrating I mean it's not the end of the world that's where the steering wheel button comes in play I know and I would I would make that argument but in that moment where you're coming oh for sure right trying to just get off the road you need to start like stabbing it I didn't but I should have right and that's what I was doing is toggle but it did to me it defeats the whole purpose of having the hard knob you do it so you can do it a little a little bit tactile right now you have to look and see what mode you're in for the whole bar not just that yeah so I agree I was a little frustrated by that but in general to Emily's point we're usually pleased with how Hyundai Kia yeah traditional shifter yeah great icons on the screen again my old lady eyes I like you know having all of that is that no on and off like I do here but one thing and I don't know if either of you I was really kind of taken aback and I think experienced it in the original of the road noise it's got a really high volume and I always say it's a rumble road noise I experienced it on both asphalt which is traditionally quieter than concrete but it's on both really high volume most of the time for me a low pitch um Rumble is not so annoying as like a high-pitched wine but this volume was so much and then when you needed power the engine noise came in on top of it I was like I was turning up not easily turning up the audio volume so I thought it was quite noisy I I want my hybrid to be quiet this was not yeah I don't know I did feel that especially when it's combing around the handling circuit and I was like hmm I wonder what the guys are gonna say when it comes to like the noise evaluation because I feel like sometimes too my perception of noise is different than the evaluation that is done I don't know if I'm just like more sensitive my husband will tell you I'm more sensitive to sound but um yeah um but I was curious I'm glad to hear you say that because I'm like okay maybe I'm just not out there with no it's definitely on the noisier side yeah um I thought the powertrain was decently cool I mean when you have to rev it out it gets a little kind of like yeah in general but again that's all you hear is is tired yeah like most cars are are pretty well sealed to the outside in terms of like door ceiling window ceilings you're not hearing a lot of that but absolutely that road noise and maybe some of it from the low low rolling resistance tires yeah maybe you know coming through more but maybe that was a compromise right anyway and again the good thing is it's probably fixable with a quieter Tire to some degree oh yeah obviously the noise dampening isn't great either but anyway so yeah and tweaks to your point efficiencies in all three power trains hybrid plug-in hybrid gets a little bit longer electric only range for the plug-in seven miles more um the Nero EV which we will be purchasing so we have the hybrid we will get the narrow EV according to Gabe um a little further range 253 up from 239. so again little tweaks for everything the only thing noticeable and they actually talk about it a lot is the boomerang shaped tail light so you'll know a 2023 hero I always say too when we're again I work on that best part for young drivers it was reliable at least up through the 20 the 22 Model this is probably a good car for a young driver great fuel economy not too fast but not too slow yeah you know reasonable price yeah and the hatchback whether they make it look like an SUV or a wagon the hatchback is always a super wonderful now versatile yeah cargo carrying yeah I'd say the hatch is probably better for a younger person just because the way they designed it yeah the cargo space it's um they they gave it extra volume by going like under the floor oh yeah right so you know we happened to have the ionic five in the shop at the same time and I had pulled in and I opened up both because I was like this looks weird to me when I looked in the back of the Nero and I realized why it was because I'm used to you know the the cargo space being kind of flat and going further like deeper into the vehicle right so it's like they took that extra volume of going deeper into the vehicle and like put it underneath and so you have like a lower well which could be really good like you know depending on what you need to carry I don't necessarily have a great bag so I like to be able to put things in slime yeah yeah like heavier stuff and you're having to like really lift it up out yeah that might be lift over we used to measure lift over right even of trunks but that's weird exactly yeah so ergonomics six to eight inches down over that where it closes yeah yeah I thought it would be like where you would normally keep the spare right and so I think you checked right yeah there's room for a spare but ours came with a inflator kit but it's this spare what's a spare yeah spare tire um yeah I think maybe some of that is a product of the basically the floors from the Elantra right so it's as low as a sedan a small car would be and then you get the tall hatchback shapes you just end up with this like coloring of space as opposed to they just extended right but the seats do fold and uh it kind of makes a flat floor it's not super flat but yeah so you can get some more uh depth that way as well um the other thing that I noticed you know we talk a lot in our like safety evaluations or safety discussions about like how vehicles are really kind of optimized for the 50th percentile male and you know in case you can't tell since I'm sitting down like I'm not really that Dimension um I'm not particularly tall so I had to make a lot of adjustments to my driving position in order to like see over the dash well reach my pedals all that good jobs right and as a result like it was so awkward for me because I went to rest my um my right arm on the center console but because I had to move the seat so far forward my elbow just kept falling like it just kept slipping forward anytime I like reached for the shifter or reach for anything and I was like gosh I really wish that they had extended the center console yeah and you see them slide a short little exactly and I'm like this clearly was not optimized for my demographic right that's the value of what we do as it goes from you you could be in it and Emily could be in it the next day and you know you're just fine but you're sliding off the the armrest and the value of the test drive you know right make sure when you're looking for a car that everybody who's going to drive it gets in it and does that stuff because right because all those things will matter even like the ability the falling into the car because of how low it is or you know like those kinds of things matter a lot on your day-to-day depending on like your height and just even like your health and you know I liked that I had Nemo I had to bring Nemo to the office that day I did my drive side to put his car seat in and I really liked how wide the doors opened you know it gave great access especially with his you know big clunky convertible car seat right some cars I'm like having to like you know do a little bit of air aerobics trying to manipulate the car seat inside and this was like so much easier because it had nice white access yeah they opened almost 90 degrees I think in the back there it's amazing how just that little bit more of angle oh my gosh makes all the difference it really does another day-to-day thing I'm glad you said that and I think again some of it might be because it's part a launcher in some ways but the steering column I don't know if you either of you found this but I I had to tilt it up into this like bus-like position because effectively it's at the same height as in a small car but then the seat's higher so you end up having to raise tilt it up so like the posture of my hands and wrists on the wheel is just not flatter yeah and that's totally a preference thing but just to your point about test driving it and seeing what's comfortable um and it's funny you say that because that's how I like to drive very close um not flat but I let again I have short legs like you so I'm typically much closer yeah you're also not the 50th percentile man which was not designed for me no stuff is really not somewhere all right and of course Kias are typically known for their value when you can get them I know there's some issues with supply chain so the the range for the Kia Niro hybrid about 26 000 to 44 depending on how you quick to equip it um ours was an ex trim um stickered for thirty thousand six hundred dollars including destination charge so again maybe a good value for a young driver as I mentioned so and we will give you final test results of that as well as future test results of the Kia Niro EV 2023 that we will be buying in the future so moving on to our question of the week um talking cars at icloud.com keep them coming we actually have a great video question this week from Elliott in Minneapolis take a listen hello talking cars I bought a Kia Telluride a couple years ago um right before they got really popular and my question is is more related to the sort of quote-unquote service schedule of of newer Vehicles I've been bringing it back pretty Faithfully to the dealership for the oil changes and whatever else maybe is involved in a service like that but recently I've found that it's very difficult to actually get into these dealerships um and so I've been thinking about just bringing my vehicle in for oil change is that just a local shop where I can get in easily and uh with two Busy Boys at home I'm just wondering if there's any issues with taking newer vehicles to sort of off-brand or or off the dealership lots and uh if there's anything that I'm I would be missing in terms of service by doing that and if there's any issues with resale value um if I were to uh have it serviced at just some random spot that has a drive-through it's quick thanks guys love the show I think this is a great question from Elliot and I have a great story to go with it but we got a lot of great advice from our two mechanics John and our new mechanic Mike on this question I just have a great story which totally relates to Elliot and this happens to be Ford not Kia but my husband again has this relatively new Ford F-150 and the dealership we bought it from promises lifetime oil changes so great perk I will say the dealership is not in our backyard it's about a 45 minute drive he has yet to be able to schedule an appointment within a month of when he's reaching the mileage you know because it's hard to gauge when you get your mileage or your service intervals but he has yet been able to take advantage of this free oil change for life unfortunately you just can't schedule an appointment around it so I think it's not just Kia right it's taking it somewhere else and an independent yep so to Elliot's point he's taking it to an independent dealer but uh maybe start with you Alex John and Mike gave us a ton of points but and I have some stuff too yeah um first off it's definitely okay to use an independent shop especially for something routine like an oil change um or even some other basic service but you know you just want to make sure that it's a reputable shop and maybe not just like something random you've never heard of or more importantly find a shop that's local to you that you can kind of build a relationship with um but ultimately it's absolutely okay to use them especially to your point you don't always know when that oil change service interval is coming up right right so you can't just schedule it for two or three months away so you might need it and then cram all your miles in yeah or or stop driving the car because you don't want to you know over overdo the the oil or the mileage it's way over my family gets crazy yeah maybe I made them do that um but you definitely just want to make sure they're using the right oil OEM Parts where possible things like that right but there there's still a lot of value in going to the dealership because the dealership and the techs there more specifically know these vehicles so well compared to an independent shop that's seeing all different types and brands of cars right so when you bring your Telluride there they're gonna know exactly what it should drive like sound like all these things right yeah and they're going to know what to check for um you know you might go in for it right but they're going to look at everything else and and if you're following the service manual or the schedule in your owner's manual they're going to know how to check all those other things Beyond just the oil change so um I think there is still value especially if Elliott you are following that uh schedule when you get to ones that are more major uh maybe like timing belts and spark plugs not that the independent shop can't do that right but it might be valuable to try to schedule those more in-depth services the other thing that they mentioned too is is and it's when you're in the dealership any outstanding recalls yeah if you haven't done them they're going to be able to say oh this needs that and just take care of it right then and there and to pay back on that yeah the other thing that they can do is any software updates right oh yeah so the rolling computer idea yeah yeah absolutely right your iOS yeah right so our vehicles involve so much more software now these days and that's not necessarily things that a local shop might have access to they might so it's worthwhile to ask which is what Mike said but you know a dealership will definitely have access right to those right right in the downloads yep yep one of the things too there are some diy things for sure but it it's getting to the point where it depends on the car I mean we've seen so many cars even when we do the headlight alignments like the whole engine's covered It's all under these things you can't access anything be it an oil filter to Elliot's point or a cabin air filter yet there's other cars we again going back to our own personal story we got charged you know this is the dealer caution I will give you're at the dealer they come out and say hey while we have it on the lift do you want us to grab the cabin air filter and do this and this and then you get the bill cabin air filter if you go down to your local auto parts stores twelve dollars or twenty dollars whatever it is but it's the labor and they charge you a minimum of a quarter of an hour on that labor at upwards of 110 125 an hour um so things again it's it's about getting to know your car because many times both the engine air filter and the cabin air filter are really easy to do but when you do it at the dealership and they've now tacked it on even though it's on the lift already um can be a lot more I think we paid 95 for a 21 year yeah yeah um and and to Elliot's other part of his question about the impact and the resale value um I think on a on most normal Vehicles I'll put it that way it doesn't really matter whether you have records from going to the dealer versus an independent shop right it's more that you have done it and you can prove it right the record keep the records whether regardless of where they're from I mean you start to get into like collector cars and things like that where people want to see like oh it's dealer maintained or you have every single thing maybe less important right um but yeah just keeping those records regardless of of whether they're independent or from the dealership I've been trying to get my kids who are now driving their own vehicles to get in the habit of keeping all their receipts and keeping a little folder in their glove box of oil changes and tire changes and Brake changes how are they doing on that not real well mom's mom's kind of guiding a little bit but yeah if you know Jen she's like the queen of people so I can you can only imagine that she's telling her children to save paper but honestly maybe in the resale paper is a good thing it's true it could be it could be right you're making a cutback don't make it a comeback a paperless Society is gone no so excellent question Elliot um again keep them coming talking cars at icloud.com um we thank you for joining us this episode was produced by David Abrams and filmed by Andrew Balise and Anatoly schumsky so um we'll see you next week and keep on talking cars foreign\n"