**A Journey from Rock Bottom to Fulfillment**

William's story is one of transformation and redemption. Once a Marine, he had struggled to find his place in the world after leaving the military. He felt lost and without direction, often struggling with depression and anxiety. However, everything changed when he discovered horses. Working with horses provided him with structure and responsibility, which helped him develop a sense of purpose.

For William, working with horses was a game-changer. It gave him a new schedule to adhere to, which included meetings and responsibilities. He learned to appreciate the value of having a routine and sticking to it. "They've sort of taken over," he joked, referring to his daily horse-related commitments. This newfound sense of structure helped William navigate his personal struggles and find happiness again.

One of the most significant changes in William's life was his transition from an executive protection career to working with horses. He had tried to climb the corporate ladder but ultimately found that it wasn't for him. "It's like I just couldn't get over it," he said, referring to the realization that he didn't want to continue in his previous career. Instead, he chose to pursue a new path that brought him joy and fulfillment.

William credits his newfound happiness to giving himself permission to ask out of his old job. He says, "I just had to give myself permission that one day I could ask for it out." This decision led to a life of purpose and meaning, as William now wakes up every morning excited about the work he does with horses.

**From Rock Bottom to Fulfillment**

William's journey from rock bottom to fulfillment is a testament to the power of change and redemption. He struggled with depression and anxiety after leaving the military but eventually found happiness again through working with horses. His story serves as an inspiration to others who may be struggling, demonstrating that it's never too late to make a change and pursue a new path.

**The Importance of Structure**

For William, structure was key to his newfound sense of purpose. Working with horses provided him with a daily schedule to adhere to, which included meetings and responsibilities. He learned to appreciate the value of having a routine and sticking to it. "It's like I had found my footing," he said.

This newfound appreciation for structure has had a profound impact on William's life. He no longer struggles with depression and anxiety, and instead finds joy in his work with horses. His story serves as a reminder that structure can be both beneficial and empowering, providing individuals with a sense of purpose and direction.

**A Blessing in Disguise**

William describes his transition to working with horses as "a blessing in disguise." He was forced to reevaluate his life and make changes that ultimately led to a more fulfilling existence. His story serves as an inspiration to others who may be struggling, demonstrating that sometimes the things we think are our greatest losses can actually become our greatest blessings.

**Gratitude and Gratitude**

For William, gratitude is a key component of his newfound happiness. He says, "I'm just grateful every single day for this opportunity." This sense of gratitude has had a profound impact on his life, helping him appreciate the little things and find joy in everyday moments.

William's story serves as an inspiration to others who may be struggling with feelings of discontent or unhappiness. By embracing gratitude and finding purpose through work or other activities, individuals can transform their lives and discover new meaning and fulfillment.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enon all right everybody welcome into another edition of Silver Lining podcast I'm Adam across from me is grle Rex Uncle Rex um so uh as we've been talking for the last few podcasts that Rex and I um started this podcast talking about our family and about healing and a book now we're focusing on really healing and other people who have healed and how they heal um from life's tragedies and so today we have been on we've had been on before he's my cousin um and uh people loved having Ben on a lot of people had questions for Ben as he um has helped a lot of people through therapy um with PTSD and other things and he's a he's a vet and you know he was special forces and like he had really great story and we've talked to him we have his wife Alice on as well who talked about being a a a a wife of somebody who came back with ptsc and how to deal with that and she's going to be doing some great stuff with our podcast uh with with a group and we'll talk more about that but today um we uh we love stories we love to hear other people's stories not just our story but other people and I think everybody has a story and in my opinion I think every I think everybody could write a book in my opinion but from what Ben said Ben said that uh his friend uh will had a story and and and Ben has worked with them so Ben let's let's start with you and then we'll go to Will and and uh hear his story and maybe find out how we how he healed and maybe some things about healing too maybe a quick review of Ben's background too because there are some people especially in the last couple months that joined us that maybe didn't hear Ben before so Ben just a brief amount of your background you think's appropriate sure yeah yeah Ben go ahead do that yeah so you guys know me um from the podcast before I did some time in the Air Force and Special Operations as a par rescan um prior to that my life was filled with trauma and abuse and the things that were difficult for me as a youth and so I went to war came back I contracted for several years after that um I lost some brothers along the way and steered myself instead of towards Physical Medicine towards mental health to solve my own problems and create a pathway to start healing other guys who had um come across some of my similar experiences and some of my similar difficulties um in the military I was focused on getting people back to be with their families and then after that I kind of found the same value in mental health trying to get people back with themselves and with the people that they cared about so I started doing mental health um I'm a licensed professional counselor now and I've done some work with veterans um that's who I mainly focus on although my practice is open to everyone and will is one of the guys who I've done some work with and I was pretty impressed by the things that he's overcome and by what he's doing now um so will I want to thank you for your service we we've served around some of the similar time frames and we've talked about that before um all of that is on the table I'd love for you to introduce yourself to to the people that are paying attention hey I'm uh yeah I'm William I uh there was a in the Marine Corps uh from 09 to 13 active and then I went back in 17 to 22 with a result reserves um and went into executive protection did that whole deal uh and kind of sort of started drinking myself to death in those uh in that last decade um not really knowing how else to deal with some of the stuff you know just trying to you know put on that that strong front be a hard target and uh was basically hiding from most of my problems um and not addressing a lot of the stuff that you know the stuff like childhood bullying uh you know not feeling like you know I fit in you know always you know relying on my resume as a way to you know prove my self worth instead of you know just having some and so uh um so yeah I ended up uh hitting my bottom uh in the OR guess it was January 2023 uh is when I I checked into um treatment and then uh that's when I was introduced to Ben and uh started started working on just getting back on track and and you know figuring out what the next right move for me was um I did not think that included moving to a horse ranch in Arizona but um yes you're in Arizona well yes yeah so that's what happened I uh um yeah I stopped you know it's one of those deals I stopped trying to control every little Det tell I stopped trying to like make it Williams way and just let things happen and it's been wonderful I'm the uh program director for resilience Unleashed here at bethy's gate ranch um we serve veterans and First Responders uh we do uh equine facilitated wellness and coaching and uh work through uh uh post-traumatic growth which is based on the science from a Dr teski and uh you know it's that's the biggest thing was once I got out of that whole sense of self and started uh trying to be of service to my fellow man that's that's when everything really started turning around so my my question is you mentioned a couple things a let's go back to drinking um because there's a lot of people who can relate to this um at one point in your life you got to a point where you couldn't get up in the morning or face life without drinking alcohol because that would that would get rid of at least temporarily the pain that you're emotional pain that you were going through that's right yeah and it I mean it got sad it got to the point where um you know just uh I bought a house back in 2013 and during covid uh you know I thought oh I'm going to you know re redo this whole place it's going to be you know got nothing but time and and energy to throw at it and it's just going to look great I couldn't make it to the hardware store and back without stopping at the bars you know and uh just a that self-medication spiral that finally know took over and and uh I think that was the saddest point was losing an argument with myself about whether or not I was going to drink that day and then when you get you said you got rock bottom and Rex and I have talked several podcasts about people who get Rock Bottom when you hit that level and then you said you went into therapy and then you met Ben and all that what happened to where you hit rock bottom that you got out of it like that you said the enough's enough like what happened in your heart your mind your your spirit what happened it was one of those deals where I was I was really tired of uh having to face what I had done the night before I think uh you can only make so many excuses and when that pattern of behavior just continues that you you you realize you know you're not just lying to the people around you you know I was lying to myself I I was constantly uh not going to let this happen again you know daily you know um and that last night it was nuts I got myself in a position that I hated being in um you know I was stranded basically at a at a stranger's house uh slept slept off the drunk because I didn't want to drive home drunk so I slept it off got up the next day to get cigarettes and was driving home and that's when I got pulled over and I still even after you know trying to do the right thing blew a012 so how drunk I was but eight hours later it was a 0.12 I was I was gone you know yeah so you went through you went you went through that whole thing where you went through rehab a lot of people have tried rehab did rehab work for you or how what was it a mindset that you were like no matter what I need to change or like because I know a lot of people fail at rehab I I had a I had an uncle who who uh said something that kind of stuck with me um and this was way before I got into recovery he was just talk telling me about you know his sobriety because it wasn't I was an adult when I realized that he was sober I had always assumed he was always with us when we were drinking he was always around us when we were goofing off and um he was just a nice Uncle who was keeping us out of trouble is what he was doing um and then I realized one day that you know he's just in there with Dr Pepper he's you know and uh he said he said it's a real sad day when you realize Rock Bottom has a basement and wow what is what a what a great saying that is right and so yeah when I uh I woke up you know my second DUI I called my dad I said I don't know what to do and um he had heard of a place and and got me in there um and then once I was there I knew that I could either I'd seen enough guys go through that cycle that I was either going to be stuck in the tle or I was going to grab what I need get out and go back to it and uh um I wanted it to be a launching point and I think that's one of the things that with this program with the post traumatic growth that I really agree with is it it's it says you know this is a launching point this is just show you what you can survive now let's you know not let that suck us down let's make that a launching point and um and so that was kind of the mindset that I had of you know I need to grab as many tools as I can and um I didn't even finish the program I I got into uh I just I grabbed as many tools as I could found a good sponsor I got a good good counselor and uh hit the road yeah that's kind of where I want to go with this I want to go with Ben first and kind of like I don't know what you're allowed to share or talk about or whatever but when you met Ben you got to that point um and then you you worked with Ben and you got better and better and better and better then now here you are helping other people uh in the same kind of capacity um how it's just like you know Rex and I we we love that you know Optimist come in and they feel something and then they feel like they want to help somebody and obviously you know when you help other people you just feel better about your life yourself everything so Ben can you share with us how you helped will or maybe that relationship to where now he's actually doing the same you know helping other people yeah let's talk about that a little bit because when and I met and we started working together that facility and you can correct me if I'm wrong well it wasn't perfect for you it didn't speak to you in all the ways that you wanted to stay and continue that program in particular tell me a little bit about that how you were able to navigate maybe it not being the perfect place for you to feel like you were going to heal and how you came about that decision of of going on your own and taking these tools that you learned that was yeah that was uh I waffled on that decision for a while and I did stay there for three months through I think it was a I was at 90 days of a a seven Monon program um but it was a a thing where I found myself between those two different types of people where I had guys you know in the program for three four five times uh just trying to complete it you know and um then there were guys who were stuff out of the park and doing great and then I'd never see him again and uh when I when I sat and looked that some of the guys that um were trying to help me through I don't want to be I don't want to be too judgmental on them because I they saved my life uh but it had seemed that that became sort of a safe haven and they didn't really want to go much further past the gates and uh I didn't I didn't want to end up in that position I wanted a point where you know I could go out and and do something uh I didn't know what at the time um but I knew that my time there wasn't going to be very long um even when I left though I did stick around for a few months as a volunteer um even though I wasn't a graduate they're totally fine letting me come back and work and help could and uh so that was a good experience uh and I think that let us leave not so much in a place where I can say you know I told you so but they felt better about me leaving the program and and moving on without completing the full full term yeah and I wanted to talk about that a little bit because I want to help people understand who are listening that sometimes these programs don't have all of the pieces that are perfect and sometimes you don't have a perfect counselor there or some people that you're working with that aren't the best but it can still be that launching point that you talked about as long as you're willing to take those tools and use them you can make any of these things a success for yourself you don't have to put that pressure on yourself that you graduated or you completed like you said there were guys who did graduate and came back because they weren't able to maintain that same focus and that same drive when they were out of those Gates of that program um with their own choices what's something that you think um maybe that we did together or that did in that program that helped you maintain that you know outside of it that helped you get that confidence that said I can handle these things as they come in you know without being in a facility 247 that was yeah that was one of the uh things that you know we kind of worked on I think it was uh I came to that realization that you know I sort of had that Marine Corp mindset where I was expecting them to be perfect I was expecting them to fill it check all the boxes make sure everything was as as smooth and efficient as they could make it and I sort of had to come to that realize that that that's what they were trying to do they weren't succeeding but they were doing their best you know and it it didn't it didn't fit Williams box of what it should be but who cares you know the only person who cares about that is me and so once I realized you know they're doing their best and they're they they gave me more resources than I could ever put to full use uh that's that's when my whole mind I think my mind mindset shifted that you know um you know there's plenty to be thankful for and it's not always going to be perfect and and you know if I go out there and I screw up those people that I was mad at who were there for me are still going to be there for me and uh and that's that's part of the realization that I had to come to that you know you know my ego was getting in my way again Rex talks Rex talks about ego all the time um Rex what is it about ego that gets all of us like you know you mentioned it in your book a lot well it's such a natural part of us we need our ego we need that's that's where our that's where we recognize our self-worth and when we're struggling to not because we don't have selfworth sometimes we let our ego go beyond barriers that that keep it healthy and we let it go trying to justify trying to trying to show or trying to build or trying to prove self-worth that we haven't done the work to recognize inside of oursel and I bet William or Ben could give a much better explanation than that but that's my I just know that we mentioned ego a lot and how we we have to learn how to control our ego or figure out how to deal with our with all of our egos Ben yeah it's perfect um what you're talking about Rex because earlier will mentioned some bullying and it is something that we worked on and you guys are talking about ego and he's talking a little bit about that in driving his decisions and what we talked about I don't know if you remember this will is like those IM statements those negative core beliefs um that come into play and where they developed and I think if I remember correctly you were a little bit surprised that those were so powerful from your experience before the military right yeah and that was yeah it was surprising because I was you know pretty emotional going through that um because I had blamed everything on Afghanistan for so long that oh no it was elementary school right what a realization Ben Ben you've talked about that before it's a lot of times pts is just a result of earlier childhood trauma not necessarily what happened in war that's a that's a real eyeopener for me yeah and I think what we come across are these messages that we're not good enough or we're not enough and it cements in a time that we don't have the life experience to counter it and so some of these things that we're talking about I've done as well where we're trying to counter that message and we make choices that are contrary to our values to what we really want to what's really important to us but it's enough to counter the message or make us not feel it and you know will and I have discussed that before it's that escape or that avoidance that is such a powerful thing in substance use in any kind of distraction to quiet that voice because we really don't know how to fight it we don't know where it came from We're surprised by how powerful it is and turns into kind of sounding like ourselves saying that we're not good enough and then we have to find a way to prove that we're not um will what are some of the things that you recognize you know we're kind of backtracking talking about the things we worked with in that battle of your I am versus your I am not what do you mean do you remember looking into this and and thinking you know this was my voice and maybe you know some of these things I did at War were trying to counter that some of the achievements that I had right yeah no it was definitely um I think a lot of what we we discussed was mostly you know my Reliance on my accomplishments you know trying to prove myself because in my head I wasn't worthy so they think I'm not worthy so if I do this this this then they'll accept me and then I can accept myself and that never worked out for me just you know kept growing that uh a little wider and wider um but that was a big thing was uh getting to that point you know with that whole I think I told Ben in one of the sessions I said I don't know how I have such a big ego when I have no selfworth like it's completely out of balance and that was my way of battling that was trying was going after you know the resume you know what can I put on my resume that proves you know and then it's funny because I'd be you know somewhere drunk in a bar and I don't have a resume to hold up you know I just feel like an outcast anyways so yeah and that's amazing too because you did all the things right you're a decorated veteran you were in Afghanistan you did executive protection at a high level you climbed the cool guy ladder you did all the cool guy things and it resonates with me because I felt the same way those accomplishments still didn't silence that voice right it wasn't enough and we felt like we're Superman but at the same time felt like we're not good enough and that's a really interesting counterintuitive thing for our brain to be battling right yeah and um it's one of those things that that's why you know when when I took this job one of the things that I love about it is I can't give myself any credit other than answering a phone call that's and um I think uh I've got to realize you know just people people want me here for me you know not because of what I did over there not because of my career you know the the management uh positions helped but other than that uh you know I I just got to a point in my life where I realized you know how how much uh people people just enjoyed working with me when I wasn't throwing my resume in their face or telling them how much I knew um and so getting this job and and going about it without any of that you know just being like hey I'm here to learn I'm here to do what I can and and you know let's have fun and that's done more for me than you know any leadership position that I had before now wow can we go back just a little bit um because Ben had mentioned like maybe three or four podcasts ago when we had him on about you know being a kid and being bullied and you me being in school being bullied and then in my first book I did a whole chapter on my son Zach who he was getting bullied at school and he was calling me telling me that he was sick and I need to go pick him up from school the nurse would call me four or five days in a row and uh I had no idea he was being bullied and so he was just like I just can't go back I'm I'm sick I'm anxiety I like well you're not sick you're fine when you get home and so there's this whole thing and I feel like there's a lot of parents that watch or grandparents that watch that have had kids or grandkids that are bullied and since both of you have more experience I did it I took my son out of school and I homeschooled him just so he wouldn't have to go through that I don't know if that's the right call or not but that's the call that I went with my conscience and I was like I I'm I just I can't have him do that so what advice both of you could give to maybe somebody who has kids or grandkids that uh have been bullied and since both of you were there what do you wish would have happened and how did you deal with it what do you got well I think you've got some pretty good Insight on this from what I remember in our conversations yeah I mean well I was never I think I was probably like your son I was never really honest with my folks about it and uh in fact we me and my mom had really interesting conversations uh after my sessions with Ben because um I did the same thing I was in the I was in the nurse you know and uh I would just continue to go to the nurse and she remembered a couple times you know where other parents would intervene um because they felt the other kids are being rude to me but I did a pretty good job I think of hiding it from my mom um I switched schools in third grade um and I always I had remembered that being due to bullying and uh talked to Ben about it about it being due to bullying and all this stuff and then when I talk to my mom my mom goes no it's because your principal was an idiot right you getting real perspective your mom just slaps you in the face with like real things you're like no she do know she was she was dumb so uh yeah for me it was one of those deals where um I don't I don't have the right answer you know but um myself I wish I had been more more honest about it yeah uh to the people around me you know CU they you know there that's where some of those thoughts came in because essentially I I ended up agreeing with the bullies and that's you know that started this path and uh had I I don't know maybe if I had spoken up or said something you know we could have uh nipped it in the bud but I never did so well I know my my son actually he was like I'm just sick or I'm just like he never admitted that he was being bullied and I just looked at him in the eye both of us had tears in our eyes I said hey just tell me you can tell me anything anything tell me anything I I will not judge you you can tell me anything anything that's going on and you will not be judged and I will make sure that whatever is happening will not happen so just tell me and we sat there in the car for 30 minutes without him figuring out what he want to say then he finally just told me what was happening and so at that point that was a that was a great breaking point for me even though at the time my wife was like he's a wuss he's got to go to school like we fought we fought over how to deal with his bullying and I was just like I'm staying home I'm going to homeschool him he's not going back to that school so but it took a while for him to feel comfortable about talking saying that because I don't think kids that get bullied really they're embarrassed by it or there there's something going on to where they don't want to they don't want to say anything I think the biggest thing is I think that's great I think the biggest thing is if I had permission to have those feelings I would have yeah but I didn't think I had permission and so I I buried him you know Ben Ben what is does that mean yeah I think it's exactly what he said the the idea in your head is that it's not safe or I'm not safe or something about me is inadequate and so if we're already thinking to ourselves like I did you know I'm not good enough or I can't speak up for myself in this moment then I'm also not going to advocate for myself around the people that love and support me because it's unfamiliar to me and I'm not sure what the outcome is going to be I've already gone through all this pain if I come out with these things and I go through more pain I want I would like to avoid that right and um I think in working with Will and and a lot of people that I work with that's one of the biggest barriers and we've discussed that on the podcast before too is having somebody that you feel safe with that you can unload these things on because that's really what it takes for you to realize that it's okay for you to speak it and then it's okay for you to Define it and if you can we say if you can name it you can tame it if it's got a definition it's something that we can attack it's something we can work with um but like we said before you know for will it was a big surprised that that was such a big deal I think one of the first times he talked to me about it he brushed it off as being completely insignificant you know one of my questions is what's happened in your past that's been difficult for you what challenges have you overcome you know did you have struggles with parents or kids at school or authority figures that no no my childhood was great you know I had supportive parents I was fine I had lots of friends so there's a there's a brush off that happens that's a natural protective Instinct um that really takes a lot of work to get through I think that that's all I had was I I went through both of those things Rex anything else that you you're sitting back noticing that maybe we need to talk about I'm sitting back just completely fascinated by by all of this um something I would like to know if you don't mind sharing um the what you're doing now is it called Equine Therapy equaline therapy it's it's therapy through working with horses right right what's right but I'm not a therapist so I can't call it therapy okay so what what do you do what's your role right now with with uh but yeah we we have the resilience Unleashed program uh we take uh veterans and First Responders um and we work through uh the post-traumatic growth workbook that was written by Dr teski um and in that course we really my goal with it is to give that space where the veterans and First Responders can talk about this type of stuff in front you know give them that permission to open up and that's that's the most significant thing you know I'll get guys who um yeah I had one guy uh who just sat there quietly the whole time and then the last session he just opened up and he's been involved ever since continues to volunteer with us come comes back to the sessions often and he he's been you know one of the guys that I I've paraded around and uh but um but creating that space and that camaraderie um while we're working with the horses the horses are wonderful because they're just sort of a reflection of however you're feeling in that moment um if you're nervous and anxious they're nervous and anxious they're a flight animal you know and you're the Predator so if they pick up on you being nervous they want to know what's making their Predator nervous and so uh um that's one of the huge things is uh uh it gets the it starts the conversation um the horses really have some gift of just getting into those emotions that uh and pulling stuff out of you know grown men you know these these big badasses that you know save people's lives for a living and then they just you know uh they they come out they they're just willing to talk about about anything and we've we've had a pretty good good run with it what we do at the end is really fun we end up doing a Cabo drive and uh so a lot of these guys have never been on a horse some of them never seen a horse and by the end you know we're working cattle together down in h bumblebee Arizona is this like uh City Slickers 5 you get the cameras out and rolling like a bunch of guys that don't know how to be outside and by the way horses I love animals and I Rex and I we have talked about healing and how people heal and petting a dog it there's something there's something that releases stuff when you have a dog to love on and and dogs recognize that too horses are the same I've always said I want to go hug a cow lay down on the ground and hug a cow I could hug a horse too I there but for you to actually give us therapy like legitimate uh science behind the horses and therapy this is something that we've talked about healing on this podcast for a year now and this is the first time that's come up oh really yeah it's it's been a lot of fun I've been learning a lot and especially with them my initial reaction to them was that essentially if you've got a nervous horse the way you calm them down is exactly the same way as you stop or tunneling or you know anything uh it's the diaphragmatic breathing uh calming yourself trying to lower your heart rate lower your nerves and that's the horses react to them and so when I went to the VA they gave me a sheet of paper that told me what to do when I was having an anxiety attack uh and when I was having anxiety attack I wasn't going to look for my piece of paper you were you were in a panic attack and so when I'm out there with the horses I teach them how to calm down the horses well now they're getting those reps in and so it's not new when they feel themselves you know the shallow breathing story they know exactly all right you know this is how I this is how I would do it if the horse did you know wow um and so that was the initial thing and then from there as I I've been working with this organization and they've been teaching me more and more just watching how some of the guys just open up you know on the emotional level you know not just the the physical side of it uh it's amazing to watch uh the horses pick up on what the guys are going through and communicate that to me that's it sounds insane saying that out loud but it it truly is uh you know I can tell when when a guy's isolating I've got a horse that will go out and and annoy him just go and get into their space and not let them soak off to the back edge of the of the group you know and so wow it's it's amazing I love hearing that um I know Rex you know has has gone to a couple of therapists and counselors and I haven't gone yet to any therapists or counselors but this may be the route for me I mean literally I love horses and I feel like that may be something a therapy for me to do and you're in Arizona so I may uh I may get your your info and and head out that way at some point because I think that may do something for me and on that note who does it work for William what what's your experience do people try other types of therapy and that it doesn't work and they come out and get breakthroughs with what you're doing yes uh yeah it's one of those things it's I think in every different type of Channel you go down uh there's responsibility of you have to be open to it you have to let it happen um but even then you know depending on the horses you know you've got some horses that just bulldoze through that barrier you know they just they know how to how to get what they want um and you know I had one guy who came out I've got I had this horse on the property that I just did not get along with and it's funny because they all have personalities you know it's like dogs or cats you know you just horses are the same way and there was one me and him just butted heads over everything he was pushy he didn't want to listen to me he just we never and then I brought out this uh old veteran and he just he was crippled and he was hurting in a lot of physical pain um but also had a lot of stuff that he need to work through and the horse just came over and just leaned on him and they kind of held each wow been through countless surgery iies all kinds of physical pain and he picked up on it and from that point on that veteran started talking about those surgeries and how it affected his life and how it affected his marriages and his kids and you know he he tried to put on that strong face and power through it and he ended up hurting relationships because he was in that mindset all the time and he never opened up to anyone and I don't think if that horse that I didn't think highly of was that day right this is just fascinating man I love this will how is it how is it different for you now than when you were going through the beginnings of your recovery now that you're viewing this you're witnessing people change um but you're also having to maintain your own health right how is it different for you now what do you do for yourself well for myself the the horses it's sort of one of those things my favorite job at the Marine Corps was a squad leader and I liked I I liked having the guys to take care of um because that kind of kept me out of my own head and it kept me busy um and now I've got 11 horses here that I've got to do the same thing for the difference is none of them have called me from jail yet that was just the Marines doing that but yeah they've been wonderful uh but they've for me just having being around them constantly having a job uh that you know they rely on me and I rely on them uh for that balance because when when I feel myself you know starting to lose a little bit of patience and I realize all right I need to uh you know I either need to get into a meeting or I need to get on a horse and uh the horses are always here for that you know they love it that's great that's become my my hobby my life my job my occupation they've they've sort of taken over and I I welcome it because it's uh it's it's gotten me on a schedule you know their schedule I have to adhere to otherwise they let me know uh we've got mostly Mayors and they're loud when I don't treat them on time so but you know that that's another thing that I struggled with was uh you know I never really kept myself to a schedule once I left the Marine P or once I got off a contract you know I just i' do whatever I felt like at the moment I didn't have structure in my life these horses provide that for me so working with the guys working with the horses having responsibilities and schedules having things like meetings that are available to you those are all helpful it sounds like those are the elements that you add to kind of maintain your health and your Wellness how do you feel about yourself now versus how you felt about yourself when we first met well I'm there's still a part of me that's shocked every day I get to go to work you know but uh I don't know if that'll ever change just because this is this is nothing that I thought I would be doing you know I was trying to climb that ladder in the executive protection World um and so to make this switch uh is such a blessing you know that uh I just can't get over it but I you know I'm making the most of it I'm I'm I know that I'm extremely lucky lucky to have this opportunity and so I'm making the most out of every second of it and that just you know makes me happy uh it it's satisfying fulfilling you know all the cliches I just I just can't get over it and uh you know and it it comes down to I just had to give myself permission that one day to ask for out and wow down this and your story is going from you said hit rock bottom and then there's a basement to Rock Bottom to going all the way up to every day you wake up going I'm doing something that I love and it brings me happiness and joy every single day and I think that's all of our goals you know in life is to wake up every day to feel that to feel what you're feeling uh to be ex excited about life excited about the have the opportunity be have gratitude and grateful um and so here you are a shining example of how we all want to be at some point and how to get there so I I appreciate you coming on the podcast sharing your story I know there's probably tons of people that are watching this that are like man that I need to I need to get to that level that he's at yeah no kidding thanks so much William for sharing this this will be valuable I think to a lot of our Optimus well I appreciate yall having me this is fun all right and Ben you're not so bad yourself yeah thanks guys I appreciate that no thanks W for coming on I love the work that you're doing um please make sure like if you want to to tell everybody who's listening how to get a hold of your organization or how to refer somebody to it if they know somebody that fits that tag a first responder or veteran that might need help with your work yeah we'll do uh we're Bethany's gate ranch uh it's gate as in walk so git t uh and you can get in touch with us Bethy gate.org is the easiest way to go through we've had a few people reach out on uh Facebook we do have a Facebook page um but the number on Bethany gate.org if you hit extension two that goes straight to my phone so I oh you're giving your your personal number I like that we got we got we got straight access to you straight access to me hey wait what part of Arizona are you in it's got to be cold it's got to be cooler than it is here in F oh yeah we're up in presc we're not oh so yes okay I was wondering I like how are you outside with horses well great great thanks for coming on thanks for H you know giving us sharing all that with us and and yeah I hope a lot of people do reach out to you because I feel like I want to be part of that group to try I just would love to try to do something like that yeah it's fun we we're welcome to have you anytime so just awesome reach out I just gave everyone my personal number so I like that all right Rex your turn what's your cell number yeah rexin Adam gmail.com that's pretty Direct that's pretty direct all right well thanks man Ben thanks for bringing Willam on we really appreciate that and we are going to continue this this vein of healing helping and hope I like those three hes me too all right stay tunedon all right everybody welcome into another edition of Silver Lining podcast I'm Adam across from me is grle Rex Uncle Rex um so uh as we've been talking for the last few podcasts that Rex and I um started this podcast talking about our family and about healing and a book now we're focusing on really healing and other people who have healed and how they heal um from life's tragedies and so today we have been on we've had been on before he's my cousin um and uh people loved having Ben on a lot of people had questions for Ben as he um has helped a lot of people through therapy um with PTSD and other things and he's a he's a vet and you know he was special forces and like he had really great story and we've talked to him we have his wife Alice on as well who talked about being a a a a wife of somebody who came back with ptsc and how to deal with that and she's going to be doing some great stuff with our podcast uh with with a group and we'll talk more about that but today um we uh we love stories we love to hear other people's stories not just our story but other people and I think everybody has a story and in my opinion I think every I think everybody could write a book in my opinion but from what Ben said Ben said that uh his friend uh will had a story and and and Ben has worked with them so Ben let's let's start with you and then we'll go to Will and and uh hear his story and maybe find out how we how he healed and maybe some things about healing too maybe a quick review of Ben's background too because there are some people especially in the last couple months that joined us that maybe didn't hear Ben before so Ben just a brief amount of your background you think's appropriate sure yeah yeah Ben go ahead do that yeah so you guys know me um from the podcast before I did some time in the Air Force and Special Operations as a par rescan um prior to that my life was filled with trauma and abuse and the things that were difficult for me as a youth and so I went to war came back I contracted for several years after that um I lost some brothers along the way and steered myself instead of towards Physical Medicine towards mental health to solve my own problems and create a pathway to start healing other guys who had um come across some of my similar experiences and some of my similar difficulties um in the military I was focused on getting people back to be with their families and then after that I kind of found the same value in mental health trying to get people back with themselves and with the people that they cared about so I started doing mental health um I'm a licensed professional counselor now and I've done some work with veterans um that's who I mainly focus on although my practice is open to everyone and will is one of the guys who I've done some work with and I was pretty impressed by the things that he's overcome and by what he's doing now um so will I want to thank you for your service we we've served around some of the similar time frames and we've talked about that before um all of that is on the table I'd love for you to introduce yourself to to the people that are paying attention hey I'm uh yeah I'm William I uh there was a in the Marine Corps uh from 09 to 13 active and then I went back in 17 to 22 with a result reserves um and went into executive protection did that whole deal uh and kind of sort of started drinking myself to death in those uh in that last decade um not really knowing how else to deal with some of the stuff you know just trying to you know put on that that strong front be a hard target and uh was basically hiding from most of my problems um and not addressing a lot of the stuff that you know the stuff like childhood bullying uh you know not feeling like you know I fit in you know always you know relying on my resume as a way to you know prove my self worth instead of you know just having some and so uh um so yeah I ended up uh hitting my bottom uh in the OR guess it was January 2023 uh is when I I checked into um treatment and then uh that's when I was introduced to Ben and uh started started working on just getting back on track and and you know figuring out what the next right move for me was um I did not think that included moving to a horse ranch in Arizona but um yes you're in Arizona well yes yeah so that's what happened I uh um yeah I stopped you know it's one of those deals I stopped trying to control every little Det tell I stopped trying to like make it Williams way and just let things happen and it's been wonderful I'm the uh program director for resilience Unleashed here at bethy's gate ranch um we serve veterans and First Responders uh we do uh equine facilitated wellness and coaching and uh work through uh uh post-traumatic growth which is based on the science from a Dr teski and uh you know it's that's the biggest thing was once I got out of that whole sense of self and started uh trying to be of service to my fellow man that's that's when everything really started turning around so my my question is you mentioned a couple things a let's go back to drinking um because there's a lot of people who can relate to this um at one point in your life you got to a point where you couldn't get up in the morning or face life without drinking alcohol because that would that would get rid of at least temporarily the pain that you're emotional pain that you were going through that's right yeah and it I mean it got sad it got to the point where um you know just uh I bought a house back in 2013 and during covid uh you know I thought oh I'm going to you know re redo this whole place it's going to be you know got nothing but time and and energy to throw at it and it's just going to look great I couldn't make it to the hardware store and back without stopping at the bars you know and uh just a that self-medication spiral that finally know took over and and uh I think that was the saddest point was losing an argument with myself about whether or not I was going to drink that day and then when you get you said you got rock bottom and Rex and I have talked several podcasts about people who get Rock Bottom when you hit that level and then you said you went into therapy and then you met Ben and all that what happened to where you hit rock bottom that you got out of it like that you said the enough's enough like what happened in your heart your mind your your spirit what happened it was one of those deals where I was I was really tired of uh having to face what I had done the night before I think uh you can only make so many excuses and when that pattern of behavior just continues that you you you realize you know you're not just lying to the people around you you know I was lying to myself I I was constantly uh not going to let this happen again you know daily you know um and that last night it was nuts I got myself in a position that I hated being in um you know I was stranded basically at a at a stranger's house uh slept slept off the drunk because I didn't want to drive home drunk so I slept it off got up the next day to get cigarettes and was driving home and that's when I got pulled over and I still even after you know trying to do the right thing blew a012 so how drunk I was but eight hours later it was a 0.12 I was I was gone you know yeah so you went through you went you went through that whole thing where you went through rehab a lot of people have tried rehab did rehab work for you or how what was it a mindset that you were like no matter what I need to change or like because I know a lot of people fail at rehab I I had a I had an uncle who who uh said something that kind of stuck with me um and this was way before I got into recovery he was just talk telling me about you know his sobriety because it wasn't I was an adult when I realized that he was sober I had always assumed he was always with us when we were drinking he was always around us when we were goofing off and um he was just a nice Uncle who was keeping us out of trouble is what he was doing um and then I realized one day that you know he's just in there with Dr Pepper he's you know and uh he said he said it's a real sad day when you realize Rock Bottom has a basement and wow what is what a what a great saying that is right and so yeah when I uh I woke up you know my second DUI I called my dad I said I don't know what to do and um he had heard of a place and and got me in there um and then once I was there I knew that I could either I'd seen enough guys go through that cycle that I was either going to be stuck in the tle or I was going to grab what I need get out and go back to it and uh um I wanted it to be a launching point and I think that's one of the things that with this program with the post traumatic growth that I really agree with is it it's it says you know this is a launching point this is just show you what you can survive now let's you know not let that suck us down let's make that a launching point and um and so that was kind of the mindset that I had of you know I need to grab as many tools as I can and um I didn't even finish the program I I got into uh I just I grabbed as many tools as I could found a good sponsor I got a good good counselor and uh hit the road yeah that's kind of where I want to go with this I want to go with Ben first and kind of like I don't know what you're allowed to share or talk about or whatever but when you met Ben you got to that point um and then you you worked with Ben and you got better and better and better and better then now here you are helping other people uh in the same kind of capacity um how it's just like you know Rex and I we we love that you know Optimist come in and they feel something and then they feel like they want to help somebody and obviously you know when you help other people you just feel better about your life yourself everything so Ben can you share with us how you helped will or maybe that relationship to where now he's actually doing the same you know helping other people yeah let's talk about that a little bit because when and I met and we started working together that facility and you can correct me if I'm wrong well it wasn't perfect for you it didn't speak to you in all the ways that you wanted to stay and continue that program in particular tell me a little bit about that how you were able to navigate maybe it not being the perfect place for you to feel like you were going to heal and how you came about that decision of of going on your own and taking these tools that you learned that was yeah that was uh I waffled on that decision for a while and I did stay there for three months through I think it was a I was at 90 days of a a seven Monon program um but it was a a thing where I found myself between those two different types of people where I had guys you know in the program for three four five times uh just trying to complete it you know and um then there were guys who were stuff out of the park and doing great and then I'd never see him again and uh when I when I sat and looked that some of the guys that um were trying to help me through I don't want to be I don't want to be too judgmental on them because I they saved my life uh but it had seemed that that became sort of a safe haven and they didn't really want to go much further past the gates and uh I didn't I didn't want to end up in that position I wanted a point where you know I could go out and and do something uh I didn't know what at the time um but I knew that my time there wasn't going to be very long um even when I left though I did stick around for a few months as a volunteer um even though I wasn't a graduate they're totally fine letting me come back and work and help could and uh so that was a good experience uh and I think that let us leave not so much in a place where I can say you know I told you so but they felt better about me leaving the program and and moving on without completing the full full term yeah and I wanted to talk about that a little bit because I want to help people understand who are listening that sometimes these programs don't have all of the pieces that are perfect and sometimes you don't have a perfect counselor there or some people that you're working with that aren't the best but it can still be that launching point that you talked about as long as you're willing to take those tools and use them you can make any of these things a success for yourself you don't have to put that pressure on yourself that you graduated or you completed like you said there were guys who did graduate and came back because they weren't able to maintain that same focus and that same drive when they were out of those Gates of that program um with their own choices what's something that you think um maybe that we did together or that did in that program that helped you maintain that you know outside of it that helped you get that confidence that said I can handle these things as they come in you know without being in a facility 247 that was yeah that was one of the uh things that you know we kind of worked on I think it was uh I came to that realization that you know I sort of had that Marine Corp mindset where I was expecting them to be perfect I was expecting them to fill it check all the boxes make sure everything was as as smooth and efficient as they could make it and I sort of had to come to that realize that that that's what they were trying to do they weren't succeeding but they were doing their best you know and it it didn't it didn't fit Williams box of what it should be but who cares you know the only person who cares about that is me and so once I realized you know they're doing their best and they're they they gave me more resources than I could ever put to full use uh that's that's when my whole mind I think my mind mindset shifted that you know um you know there's plenty to be thankful for and it's not always going to be perfect and and you know if I go out there and I screw up those people that I was mad at who were there for me are still going to be there for me and uh and that's that's part of the realization that I had to come to that you know you know my ego was getting in my way again Rex talks Rex talks about ego all the time um Rex what is it about ego that gets all of us like you know you mentioned it in your book a lot well it's such a natural part of us we need our ego we need that's that's where our that's where we recognize our self-worth and when we're struggling to not because we don't have selfworth sometimes we let our ego go beyond barriers that that keep it healthy and we let it go trying to justify trying to trying to show or trying to build or trying to prove self-worth that we haven't done the work to recognize inside of oursel and I bet William or Ben could give a much better explanation than that but that's my I just know that we mentioned ego a lot and how we we have to learn how to control our ego or figure out how to deal with our with all of our egos Ben yeah it's perfect um what you're talking about Rex because earlier will mentioned some bullying and it is something that we worked on and you guys are talking about ego and he's talking a little bit about that in driving his decisions and what we talked about I don't know if you remember this will is like those IM statements those negative core beliefs um that come into play and where they developed and I think if I remember correctly you were a little bit surprised that those were so powerful from your experience before the military right yeah and that was yeah it was surprising because I was you know pretty emotional going through that um because I had blamed everything on Afghanistan for so long that oh no it was elementary school right what a realization Ben Ben you've talked about that before it's a lot of times pts is just a result of earlier childhood trauma not necessarily what happened in war that's a that's a real eyeopener for me yeah and I think what we come across are these messages that we're not good enough or we're not enough and it cements in a time that we don't have the life experience to counter it and so some of these things that we're talking about I've done as well where we're trying to counter that message and we make choices that are contrary to our values to what we really want to what's really important to us but it's enough to counter the message or make us not feel it and you know will and I have discussed that before it's that escape or that avoidance that is such a powerful thing in substance use in any kind of distraction to quiet that voice because we really don't know how to fight it we don't know where it came from We're surprised by how powerful it is and turns into kind of sounding like ourselves saying that we're not good enough and then we have to find a way to prove that we're not um will what are some of the things that you recognize you know we're kind of backtracking talking about the things we worked with in that battle of your I am versus your I am not what do you mean do you remember looking into this and and thinking you know this was my voice and maybe you know some of these things I did at War were trying to counter that some of the achievements that I had right yeah no it was definitely um I think a lot of what we we discussed was mostly you know my Reliance on my accomplishments you know trying to prove myself because in my head I wasn't worthy so they think I'm not worthy so if I do this this this then they'll accept me and then I can accept myself and that never worked out for me just you know kept growing that uh a little wider and wider um but that was a big thing was uh getting to that point you know with that whole I think I told Ben in one of the sessions I said I don't know how I have such a big ego when I have no selfworth like it's completely out of balance and that was my way of battling that was trying was going after you know the resume you know what can I put on my resume that proves you know and then it's funny because I'd be you know somewhere drunk in a bar and I don't have a resume to hold up you know I just feel like an outcast anyways so yeah and that's amazing too because you did all the things right you're a decorated veteran you were in Afghanistan you did executive protection at a high level you climbed the cool guy ladder you did all the cool guy things and it resonates with me because I felt the same way those accomplishments still didn't silence that voice right it wasn't enough and we felt like we're Superman but at the same time felt like we're not good enough and that's a really interesting counterintuitive thing for our brain to be battling right yeah and um it's one of those things that that's why you know when when I took this job one of the things that I love about it is I can't give myself any credit other than answering a phone call that's and um I think uh I've got to realize you know just people people want me here for me you know not because of what I did over there not because of my career you know the the management uh positions helped but other than that uh you know I I just got to a point in my life where I realized you know how how much uh people people just enjoyed working with me when I wasn't throwing my resume in their face or telling them how much I knew um and so getting this job and and going about it without any of that you know just being like hey I'm here to learn I'm here to do what I can and and you know let's have fun and that's done more for me than you know any leadership position that I had before now wow can we go back just a little bit um because Ben had mentioned like maybe three or four podcasts ago when we had him on about you know being a kid and being bullied and you me being in school being bullied and then in my first book I did a whole chapter on my son Zach who he was getting bullied at school and he was calling me telling me that he was sick and I need to go pick him up from school the nurse would call me four or five days in a row and uh I had no idea he was being bullied and so he was just like I just can't go back I'm I'm sick I'm anxiety I like well you're not sick you're fine when you get home and so there's this whole thing and I feel like there's a lot of parents that watch or grandparents that watch that have had kids or grandkids that are bullied and since both of you have more experience I did it I took my son out of school and I homeschooled him just so he wouldn't have to go through that I don't know if that's the right call or not but that's the call that I went with my conscience and I was like I I'm I just I can't have him do that so what advice both of you could give to maybe somebody who has kids or grandkids that uh have been bullied and since both of you were there what do you wish would have happened and how did you deal with it what do you got well I think you've got some pretty good Insight on this from what I remember in our conversations yeah I mean well I was never I think I was probably like your son I was never really honest with my folks about it and uh in fact we me and my mom had really interesting conversations uh after my sessions with Ben because um I did the same thing I was in the I was in the nurse you know and uh I would just continue to go to the nurse and she remembered a couple times you know where other parents would intervene um because they felt the other kids are being rude to me but I did a pretty good job I think of hiding it from my mom um I switched schools in third grade um and I always I had remembered that being due to bullying and uh talked to Ben about it about it being due to bullying and all this stuff and then when I talk to my mom my mom goes no it's because your principal was an idiot right you getting real perspective your mom just slaps you in the face with like real things you're like no she do know she was she was dumb so uh yeah for me it was one of those deals where um I don't I don't have the right answer you know but um myself I wish I had been more more honest about it yeah uh to the people around me you know CU they you know there that's where some of those thoughts came in because essentially I I ended up agreeing with the bullies and that's you know that started this path and uh had I I don't know maybe if I had spoken up or said something you know we could have uh nipped it in the bud but I never did so well I know my my son actually he was like I'm just sick or I'm just like he never admitted that he was being bullied and I just looked at him in the eye both of us had tears in our eyes I said hey just tell me you can tell me anything anything tell me anything I I will not judge you you can tell me anything anything that's going on and you will not be judged and I will make sure that whatever is happening will not happen so just tell me and we sat there in the car for 30 minutes without him figuring out what he want to say then he finally just told me what was happening and so at that point that was a that was a great breaking point for me even though at the time my wife was like he's a wuss he's got to go to school like we fought we fought over how to deal with his bullying and I was just like I'm staying home I'm going to homeschool him he's not going back to that school so but it took a while for him to feel comfortable about talking saying that because I don't think kids that get bullied really they're embarrassed by it or there there's something going on to where they don't want to they don't want to say anything I think the biggest thing is I think that's great I think the biggest thing is if I had permission to have those feelings I would have yeah but I didn't think I had permission and so I I buried him you know Ben Ben what is does that mean yeah I think it's exactly what he said the the idea in your head is that it's not safe or I'm not safe or something about me is inadequate and so if we're already thinking to ourselves like I did you know I'm not good enough or I can't speak up for myself in this moment then I'm also not going to advocate for myself around the people that love and support me because it's unfamiliar to me and I'm not sure what the outcome is going to be I've already gone through all this pain if I come out with these things and I go through more pain I want I would like to avoid that right and um I think in working with Will and and a lot of people that I work with that's one of the biggest barriers and we've discussed that on the podcast before too is having somebody that you feel safe with that you can unload these things on because that's really what it takes for you to realize that it's okay for you to speak it and then it's okay for you to Define it and if you can we say if you can name it you can tame it if it's got a definition it's something that we can attack it's something we can work with um but like we said before you know for will it was a big surprised that that was such a big deal I think one of the first times he talked to me about it he brushed it off as being completely insignificant you know one of my questions is what's happened in your past that's been difficult for you what challenges have you overcome you know did you have struggles with parents or kids at school or authority figures that no no my childhood was great you know I had supportive parents I was fine I had lots of friends so there's a there's a brush off that happens that's a natural protective Instinct um that really takes a lot of work to get through I think that that's all I had was I I went through both of those things Rex anything else that you you're sitting back noticing that maybe we need to talk about I'm sitting back just completely fascinated by by all of this um something I would like to know if you don't mind sharing um the what you're doing now is it called Equine Therapy equaline therapy it's it's therapy through working with horses right right what's right but I'm not a therapist so I can't call it therapy okay so what what do you do what's your role right now with with uh but yeah we we have the resilience Unleashed program uh we take uh veterans and First Responders um and we work through uh the post-traumatic growth workbook that was written by Dr teski um and in that course we really my goal with it is to give that space where the veterans and First Responders can talk about this type of stuff in front you know give them that permission to open up and that's that's the most significant thing you know I'll get guys who um yeah I had one guy uh who just sat there quietly the whole time and then the last session he just opened up and he's been involved ever since continues to volunteer with us come comes back to the sessions often and he he's been you know one of the guys that I I've paraded around and uh but um but creating that space and that camaraderie um while we're working with the horses the horses are wonderful because they're just sort of a reflection of however you're feeling in that moment um if you're nervous and anxious they're nervous and anxious they're a flight animal you know and you're the Predator so if they pick up on you being nervous they want to know what's making their Predator nervous and so uh um that's one of the huge things is uh uh it gets the it starts the conversation um the horses really have some gift of just getting into those emotions that uh and pulling stuff out of you know grown men you know these these big badasses that you know save people's lives for a living and then they just you know uh they they come out they they're just willing to talk about about anything and we've we've had a pretty good good run with it what we do at the end is really fun we end up doing a Cabo drive and uh so a lot of these guys have never been on a horse some of them never seen a horse and by the end you know we're working cattle together down in h bumblebee Arizona is this like uh City Slickers 5 you get the cameras out and rolling like a bunch of guys that don't know how to be outside and by the way horses I love animals and I Rex and I we have talked about healing and how people heal and petting a dog it there's something there's something that releases stuff when you have a dog to love on and and dogs recognize that too horses are the same I've always said I want to go hug a cow lay down on the ground and hug a cow I could hug a horse too I there but for you to actually give us therapy like legitimate uh science behind the horses and therapy this is something that we've talked about healing on this podcast for a year now and this is the first time that's come up oh really yeah it's it's been a lot of fun I've been learning a lot and especially with them my initial reaction to them was that essentially if you've got a nervous horse the way you calm them down is exactly the same way as you stop or tunneling or you know anything uh it's the diaphragmatic breathing uh calming yourself trying to lower your heart rate lower your nerves and that's the horses react to them and so when I went to the VA they gave me a sheet of paper that told me what to do when I was having an anxiety attack uh and when I was having anxiety attack I wasn't going to look for my piece of paper you were you were in a panic attack and so when I'm out there with the horses I teach them how to calm down the horses well now they're getting those reps in and so it's not new when they feel themselves you know the shallow breathing story they know exactly all right you know this is how I this is how I would do it if the horse did you know wow um and so that was the initial thing and then from there as I I've been working with this organization and they've been teaching me more and more just watching how some of the guys just open up you know on the emotional level you know not just the the physical side of it uh it's amazing to watch uh the horses pick up on what the guys are going through and communicate that to me that's it sounds insane saying that out loud but it it truly is uh you know I can tell when when a guy's isolating I've got a horse that will go out and and annoy him just go and get into their space and not let them soak off to the back edge of the of the group you know and so wow it's it's amazing I love hearing that um I know Rex you know has has gone to a couple of therapists and counselors and I haven't gone yet to any therapists or counselors but this may be the route for me I mean literally I love horses and I feel like that may be something a therapy for me to do and you're in Arizona so I may uh I may get your your info and and head out that way at some point because I think that may do something for me and on that note who does it work for William what what's your experience do people try other types of therapy and that it doesn't work and they come out and get breakthroughs with what you're doing yes uh yeah it's one of those things it's I think in every different type of Channel you go down uh there's responsibility of you have to be open to it you have to let it happen um but even then you know depending on the horses you know you've got some horses that just bulldoze through that barrier you know they just they know how to how to get what they want um and you know I had one guy who came out I've got I had this horse on the property that I just did not get along with and it's funny because they all have personalities you know it's like dogs or cats you know you just horses are the same way and there was one me and him just butted heads over everything he was pushy he didn't want to listen to me he just we never and then I brought out this uh old veteran and he just he was crippled and he was hurting in a lot of physical pain um but also had a lot of stuff that he need to work through and the horse just came over and just leaned on him and they kind of held each wow been through countless surgery iies all kinds of physical pain and he picked up on it and from that point on that veteran started talking about those surgeries and how it affected his life and how it affected his marriages and his kids and you know he he tried to put on that strong face and power through it and he ended up hurting relationships because he was in that mindset all the time and he never opened up to anyone and I don't think if that horse that I didn't think highly of was that day right this is just fascinating man I love this will how is it how is it different for you now than when you were going through the beginnings of your recovery now that you're viewing this you're witnessing people change um but you're also having to maintain your own health right how is it different for you now what do you do for yourself well for myself the the horses it's sort of one of those things my favorite job at the Marine Corps was a squad leader and I liked I I liked having the guys to take care of um because that kind of kept me out of my own head and it kept me busy um and now I've got 11 horses here that I've got to do the same thing for the difference is none of them have called me from jail yet that was just the Marines doing that but yeah they've been wonderful uh but they've for me just having being around them constantly having a job uh that you know they rely on me and I rely on them uh for that balance because when when I feel myself you know starting to lose a little bit of patience and I realize all right I need to uh you know I either need to get into a meeting or I need to get on a horse and uh the horses are always here for that you know they love it that's great that's become my my hobby my life my job my occupation they've they've sort of taken over and I I welcome it because it's uh it's it's gotten me on a schedule you know their schedule I have to adhere to otherwise they let me know uh we've got mostly Mayors and they're loud when I don't treat them on time so but you know that that's another thing that I struggled with was uh you know I never really kept myself to a schedule once I left the Marine P or once I got off a contract you know I just i' do whatever I felt like at the moment I didn't have structure in my life these horses provide that for me so working with the guys working with the horses having responsibilities and schedules having things like meetings that are available to you those are all helpful it sounds like those are the elements that you add to kind of maintain your health and your Wellness how do you feel about yourself now versus how you felt about yourself when we first met well I'm there's still a part of me that's shocked every day I get to go to work you know but uh I don't know if that'll ever change just because this is this is nothing that I thought I would be doing you know I was trying to climb that ladder in the executive protection World um and so to make this switch uh is such a blessing you know that uh I just can't get over it but I you know I'm making the most of it I'm I'm I know that I'm extremely lucky lucky to have this opportunity and so I'm making the most out of every second of it and that just you know makes me happy uh it it's satisfying fulfilling you know all the cliches I just I just can't get over it and uh you know and it it comes down to I just had to give myself permission that one day to ask for out and wow down this and your story is going from you said hit rock bottom and then there's a basement to Rock Bottom to going all the way up to every day you wake up going I'm doing something that I love and it brings me happiness and joy every single day and I think that's all of our goals you know in life is to wake up every day to feel that to feel what you're feeling uh to be ex excited about life excited about the have the opportunity be have gratitude and grateful um and so here you are a shining example of how we all want to be at some point and how to get there so I I appreciate you coming on the podcast sharing your story I know there's probably tons of people that are watching this that are like man that I need to I need to get to that level that he's at yeah no kidding thanks so much William for sharing this this will be valuable I think to a lot of our Optimus well I appreciate yall having me this is fun all right and Ben you're not so bad yourself yeah thanks guys I appreciate that no thanks W for coming on I love the work that you're doing um please make sure like if you want to to tell everybody who's listening how to get a hold of your organization or how to refer somebody to it if they know somebody that fits that tag a first responder or veteran that might need help with your work yeah we'll do uh we're Bethany's gate ranch uh it's gate as in walk so git t uh and you can get in touch with us Bethy gate.org is the easiest way to go through we've had a few people reach out on uh Facebook we do have a Facebook page um but the number on Bethany gate.org if you hit extension two that goes straight to my phone so I oh you're giving your your personal number I like that we got we got we got straight access to you straight access to me hey wait what part of Arizona are you in it's got to be cold it's got to be cooler than it is here in F oh yeah we're up in presc we're not oh so yes okay I was wondering I like how are you outside with horses well great great thanks for coming on thanks for H you know giving us sharing all that with us and and yeah I hope a lot of people do reach out to you because I feel like I want to be part of that group to try I just would love to try to do something like that yeah it's fun we we're welcome to have you anytime so just awesome reach out I just gave everyone my personal number so I like that all right Rex your turn what's your cell number yeah rexin Adam gmail.com that's pretty Direct that's pretty direct all right well thanks man Ben thanks for bringing Willam on we really appreciate that and we are going to continue this this vein of healing helping and hope I like those three hes me too all right stay tuned\n"