HotHardware's Two and a Half Geeks - Oculus Rift, Intel Bay Trail, AMD Kaveri, iPhone 5S_C
**The Cult of Apple**
Apple's latest move to make a change with its plastics is due to their own usage of plastic in their fans, and it's a clear example of fanboyism at work. Fanboyism is alive and well, and people love to think that their decision is right. They part with money or anything they must be right. This kind of thinking can lead to a strong loyalty towards Apple products, with some enthusiasts willing to justify any expense or behavior as being in line with the company's values.
For example, if Apple rewrites its OS to make use of 64-bit processors, which is a more efficient way of processing data, it would likely result in improved performance and battery life. This is because Apple has full control over the design and development of their products, allowing them to make informed decisions about how to optimize their systems for maximum efficiency.
On the other hand, companies like Samsung are also working on 64-bit processors, but they may not have the same level of control over the entire system. As a result, Apple's decision to use 64-bit processors in their products is likely driven by a desire to improve performance and battery life, rather than simply following industry trends.
**A New Intel-Based System Arrives**
Recently, a brand new Intel Haswell-based NUC system arrived at our doorstep. While we were excited to get our hands on this new device, it didn't quite work as expected. The box was a bit smaller than last year's model, and there are more connectivity options available. We'll have to wait until we plug in the system to test its performance and see if it lives up to Apple's standards.
As we opened up the box, we were greeted by a familiar sight - the Intel logo, complete with a catchy jingle that played on repeat. This is a clever touch, as it's clear that Apple wants to make a statement about their products being high-quality and desirable. However, it's also worth noting that this level of attention to detail can sometimes be a bit much.
If we're being completely honest, the little kid inside us all wanted to see something more... mischievous. Maybe a jingle that goes "Kill your mother" or something similar? Alas, it seems that Apple is sticking to more family-friendly content for now.
**A Look at Hot Hardware**
For those who want to stay up-to-date on the latest hardware news and reviews, we recommend checking out hotHardware.com. This website is a treasure trove of information on all things tech, from benchmarks and performance tests to in-depth analysis and reviews of new products.
Whether you're looking for skateboarding dogs or pictures of kids (we won't judge), hotHardware has got you covered. And if you want to see more than just pretty pictures, there are also videos and tutorials available on the site.
One thing we did notice was that hotHardware seems to be missing a certain something - a blue bird logo on top of their homepage? No worries, though - we can always find our way back to them through facebook.com/hotHardware or youtube.com/hardwarvids.
"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: encoming up on two and half Geeks we're going to be talking about the Oculus Rift VR system then we'll hit some Intel Developers for them some new iPhones and a whole lot more the bar has been set wicked fast it rocked in the benchmarks we're going to up the anti a little bit processing power I kind of understand this welcome back to tun F Geeks I'm is actor alongside hot Hardware's own Marco chapeta and Dave altavilla how are you you guys doing let's ask Dave first how are you doing I'm doing spectacular this evening and how are you young uh I'm doing quite well I'm aging so I'm I'm getting rid of that that first that adjective there how are you doing Mr chapeta I'm doing good I am uh just back from San Francisco and next week I head to Hawaii to see some new stuff some nude stuff excuse me what was that nude stuff nude stuff and new stuff nice perfect good for you uh I guess let's jump into like technology uh I guess that guess the nude stuff is a different kind of hot Hardware let's go to the Oculus Rift VR system you guys have an eyes on or eyes in or whatever the heck you want to say I guess adjacent to a screen uh I've seen the ridiculous old prototype held together with duct tape what did you guys find out Dave well if you're looking at nude stuff through this it's G to get real as I as the saying goes but um yeah no actually uh we had uh one of our uh sleuths on the scene Brian uh was reporting at PAX Prime for us 2013 this year and got some Hands-On time with the Oculus Rift and it is significantly more refined this is a virtual reality gaming headset or actually it's really not even necessarily a gaming headset it's all sorts of different applications you can think of for this technology but a virtual reality headset and um very impressive technology to say the least turns uh certainly the gaming Paradigm on its ear here um lots of uh additional field of view you've get this uh 110° extra wide field of view and you actually very much feel immersed in the world if you look to the the farthest edge of the displays you know and you you intentionally try and find the edge you actually can see it but normal you know forward view just walking around in a virtual world let's say um it literally feels you know horizontally and vertically like you are completely surrounded and immersed in the world so an impressive technology and uh Brian was lucky enough to be able to step into Oculus vr's booth and strap one of these things on it's pretty cool yeah from what I was reading the idea is you probably want to be seated when you're using this the idea of looking around a cockpit in a car or an airplane seems fine but apparently walking around could lead to disastrous results well yeah I mean if you think about it um and certainly there's there's been different uh gadgets and and setups that have been engineered to go along with these things that we've seen treadmills by the way 360 degree treadmills with people strapping on an Oculus Rift and then walking around safely in this in this sort of cage treadmill area so they don't bump into walls and obviously if you're in a virtual world and it's completely around you and you're walking around the real world that's outside you're gonna you could just walk off a cliff or walk into a wall or traffic or something like that it's a bad idea so um but but really it's it's it's an imp RVE technology and and and our editor actually you know experienced a couple of different genres with it certainly racing now you're in a cockpit it's a very sort of confined environment and you and you look around and you can see different um views outside of your windshield you know be you know a little bit behind you you know you can see like the seat and the straps and it just makes the the whole experience you know that much more real what it feels like in a firstperson shooter and or maybe a role playing game or something where you're actually a character walking around freely in a world it's a totally different ball of wax because now you're talking about um certainly have that field of view but even even simple things need to be re-engineered versus what we're used to in a a standard sort of gaming environment uh things like let's say your inventory menu which normally comes up on a on on the screen as a flat menu of of objects well you know it looks okay it's just this little panel that sticks up with up in front of you and your virtual world but wouldn't it be better and and it can be built this way if you just look down and see what you were holding in your hands or maybe it's strapped across your belt or something like that um so there was there's this whole plethora of of I guess opportunity that's that's now available with this sort of field of view with this whole different perspective of being immersed in the world where you can engineer a game title to really take advantage of a virtual environment and so it's it's an impressive technology with lots of potential um but you know certainly some drawbacks there there's some other little things with it too like you know our our editor briyan uh mentioned having that feeling of quote unquote tickle tummy well yeah guess what you know you're looking down over a cliff and you know things start to get you know real I mean you're you're looking at you know height and and movement and you know all this different stuff from within the game not in front of you and it's it's that much more immersive and real and so speed and and depth and distance and all of that is just you know it impacts you from from all angles I don't know I here it's going to be like $300 $400 to to feel kind of motion sick in my own house I could just spin in a chair it's much cheaper exactly or go to you know Six Flags and you know five bucks for a ride or whatever but n it could be some pretty cool stuff and I think the motion sickness uh or whatever you'll they'll get a handle on that uh pretty quickly I would imagine yeah Oculus Rift comes with uh three or four barf bags I hear uh once it comes out next year I he but I'm making that up anyway let's talk about Intel developers Forum just happened Marco you were in San Francisco to check out a whole bunch of things all kinds of Intel actually showing off a working 14 nanometer Broadwell the next generation of the Core Series yeah absolutely so there was a ton of stuff at IDF to to give a little backstory um idf's usually full of surprises and we don't get too many pre-brief there's lots of sort of private meetings and and uh unveilings there but this year we we were pre-brief on Bay tril we had some information before we got there there was an embargo in place on some of the bay tril stuff so we thought IDF well I thought IDF was going to be the the bay tril show and there weren't going to be too many surprises but when we got there the the very first day the very first keynote Intel's new CEO Brian kenic I thought he did a fantastic job with the opening keynote he's he's very even ke doesn't seem like the type of guy that's going to do anything rash or crazy he's not going to have a a Balmer developers moment running across the stage was was a real was a real good speaker I thought and while he was on stage for the opening day keynote he just happened to unveil A system that was up and running running Windows 8 fully operational with a 14 nanometer Broadwell processor and if you're unfamiliar with Broadwell it's the follow on to Haswell which was recently released but shrunk down to 14 nmet so a lower power part potentially higher clocks there's no real information to disclose yet but it was great to see 14 nmet already working in that early demo at IDF it was pretty cool now he also showed off a 22 nmet smartphone uh Intel not exactly known for its smartphone business or at least being in smartphones do do you see any potential Partners do they talk about anything because I think Motorola is like one of the few companies that actually uses an Intel chip right see I think Intel is in a in a fun funky spot right now in terms of smartphones um the bay tril processor and and negen NextGen followup to that they're looking really strong however Intel hasn't had a good LTE modem to this point or actually any good LTE modem to pair with their processor so that was one of the things one of the many things holding them back from Gaining Traction in the smartphone space but in addition to showing off a smartphone with a 22 nmet atom based processor inside they also showed off a new LTE modem um that could do carrier aggregation so on stage live with the smartphone in hand they were monitoring bandwidth to this particular phone and they didn't say which network it was but it was without the carrier aggregation on it was pulling 35 megabits they flipped it on and all of a sudden this this prototype phone was pulling 70 megabits out of the air and they're thinking by next year they can get that up to 140 megabits so it seems that you know Intel is definitely on the right track and they're serious about getting into smartphones so when it came to other processors there was the tinier than Adam cork I read an interview with Intel president Renee James and she was like it's so nerdy I love the naming convention because you know core Adam quk apart from the name what's cool about the quork so the quk is is interesting it's it's a really tiny x86 core the x1000 that was shown on stage it's 1/5 the size of atom at on10th the power so it's a really low power uh really low power lower performing than Adam core but what's more interesting about cork is that it's fully synthes synthesizable probably get that word out right and what Intel is going to offer with quk is if a company has third party IP that they want to incorporate onto the chip um Quark has attach points and a standard fabric where people will be able to attach their IP to the core cores and Intel will manufacture it so it's kind of a not only a way to sell a new low power core for you know whatever kind of device it's also a way for Intel to use some of the unused capacity in their Fabs and make a little money that way as well now this is highly unusual jump in there and offer that I think it's also the beginning of Intel's play to compete with arm obviously as well uh selling that uh that IP and and certainly you know a manufacturing progress and access that arm doesn't have actually you know arm just sells the IP they don't manufacture the chip so it's kind of a onetwo punch it could be very interesting to see what that leads to down the road yeah see this is why I thought Chris anic might have been a little bit uh nuts for doing something that this is this is unusual for Intel I don't believe there's anything else that's ever done this unless I'm wrong Marco at least it's not in recent memory that they have allowed this kind of uh not even like open discussions this is like they make a processor you buy it that's pretty much usually how it goes Yeah well yeah exactly this is this is as as far as I'm aware the first fully synthesizable core from Intel and this is the first time that they're allowing their x86 cores to be paired with third-party IP on a single piece of silicon that they manufacture so who knows what this is going to going to open up for Intel it's definitely an interesting time and I noticed in the uh in the rundown for today on IDF week or weekend whatever how long it was that the actual conference AMD snuck in news how how does that even work so it's it's anytime the tech press is in town for something um all of the competitors to whatever company is hosting the main event kind of glom on to try to get some of your time and of course while I was out there meeting with Intel I also met with Nvidia and AMD and a few other companies um so AMD was showing off some some tablet design wins many pro many laptops running their apus but amidst their demos there was a cavar system running within Oculus Rift now it wasn't a crazy high-end demo is running like a unigene engine at low res something like 800 by 600 but the fact that cavar was up and running with the 3D title and the Oculus Rift shows that the processor is coming along there were rumors that it's going to be delayed much later than AMD originally said but that was it was confirmed at my meeting they are still planning to release Cav end of this year for availability early next year let's move on to uh the new version of Adam Bay Trail now when it comes to adom processors a lot of us remember them from netbooks and we're like yeah you got battery life and it's kind of a computer it's just it's pretty slow but there's battery of life now the new version of Adam is supposed to have something called I think it's called good performance is this right Dave yeah it's actually impressive performance actually for for Adam to be honest with you and um you're talking about uh a new 22 nanometer technology uh now that 3D trigate uh technology that Intel has been evangelizing for the past year or so and uh it is the new buffed out and and beefed up atom um so now you're talking about an atom core uh that scales up to 2.4 GHz turbo uh it is a quad core device without hyperthreading it's a one toone core to thread uh Association there so no hyperthreading uh it is an outof order engine uh so that is the first for the atom um family of processors outof order execution engine so it will optimize uh execution of uh instructions um you know efficiently more efficiently at least theoretically and in practice we actually realized that it it was significantly faster clock for clock than uh the previous generation atom Clover Trail uh platform uh and an impressive impressive uh chip for the mobile space primarily for tablets as Marco alluded to um you know the modem integration isn't quite there so you're not going to see uh much of this in the way of handsets um but for tablets and Ultra Portables detachables devices like that this is an impressive uh impressive chip Graphics also beefed up on this as well and as a result we were able to see performance in some of the standard Android benchmarks that we look at um that's on par with some of the fastest um Android powered um devices on the market these days or excuse me uh arm-powered uh Android devices that are on the market these days even nvidia's latest Tegra 4 chip um so good stuff uh and and of course in in traditional Windows benchmarks uh you know it was like miles ahead of clover Trail um I have to look up the numbers here specifically but impressive stuff for Intel now Marco you actually had Hands-On time with with a reference device using that actually ran one of these bait Trail uh processors ex yeah it was actually one of the geekiest things ever in the history of IDF so we it's the day the day before IDF um I got to spend some time at Intel's headquarters getting you know deep deep dive briefings on Bay tril and there was a few hours where we could there people were broken up into groups and we were allowed to install our own apps so it wasn't Intel controlled app we installed our own stuff got stuff from the app Marketplace um and ran benchmarks the the groups were broken up into into two separate groups and the first group which I happen to be in we killed a ton of our time installing all of our apps so Intel allowed a handful of us to meet up at a hotel suite at night and they brought all the devices in so it was like 20 Geeks crammed in a room just running as many benchmarks as we could on these Bay tril tablets so that was the geek one of the geekiest moments ever but to speak to the device for a minute I I had my hands on a on Android betrail Android device and windows 81 device it was the same reference platform um 2560 by 1440 screen all Intel Inside obviously betr powered and in my experience the the Android version was functional there's definitely lots of work left to do on the software side wasn't quite as great an experience as the windows 81 device the windows 81 device was nearly Flawless it was super fast it ran very well and just to go back to what Dave had mentioned that bay tril is a true quad core device Intel found that with their really fine grain clock aing and other power saving tools with betrail they could gain more performance per die area by having four actual cores than by leveraging hyperthreading as they did with clover over Trail so with four real cores in there and they're out of order cores now which will mostly outperform um in order cores with modern software you get a really good experience surprisingly from a real low power part so Windows 81 was running flawlessly on this on this device very smooth touch obviously apps ran really well and not only did it outperform Clover Trail but it's competing and beating an A4 Apu from AMD which is their like notebook part so Intel's tablet part can compete with you know quad cord or AMD mobile part notebook Parts it's pretty crazy so yeah we actually looking at some of the Benchmark numbers now that uh you know we went we stepped through in this review um you actually see where Bay tril is over twice as fast in general compute versus a previous generation Clover Trail product and um in graphics it's like it like blows it out of the water it's like not even in the same league and so literally what you see certainly in in standard Windows testing is just this huge leap in performance and so it's impressive and then when you stack it up in our Android testing versus devices like you know the Galaxy Note 2 the Nexus 7 Google Nexus 7 recently introduced you know this is current Generation stuff and then future generation stuff like Nvidia Shield which really is only available the Tegra 4 which is available on Nvidia Shield currently um hanging with that as well from a graphics standpoint so kudos to Intel for stepping it up a notch with b tril and will be interesting to see here in Q4 those products are going to be shipping interesting to see what what those tablets look like and um and what performance is like um if it's any indication with uh the experience that Marco had it's going to be it's going to be a happy uh Q4 season for for Intel based tablets yeah the winning popularity of PC the form factor laptops I'm thinking Intel trying to get into the tablet space as much I'm really curious about the way that Android tablet performed or hearing that it wasn't as good as an 8.1 experience right so that seems like that Intel obviously trying to get into every which way I believe cork might end up in SmartWatches and other smaller devices if the atom is any good it could be in things like Chromebooks who knows where it'll end up uh because there's a lot of cheap cheap machines out there nowadays it's going to be kind of hard to speak speaking of of cheap IAS I'm sorry to interrupt one of the things that uh kranich mentioned on stage at IDF was this holiday season there will be sub $100 Bay tril based uh mobile devices I don't know exactly what device I don't know how fast that bay tril Chip's going to be but he said sub $100 that's pretty crazy yeah I I read that quote that seems insane to me also though uh you're going to get the you get what you pay for because I remember netbooks getting really cheap but boy did they get chintzy when it comes to build quality so while even if you can put a low-end processor in there which is still really amazing compared to the last generation stuff if the display is crap or if the keyboard stinks or if there's no keyboard This is sorry we're talking about tablets here uh if if if the touchcreen is no good people might not want to buy this or at least it be that price point you go 99 bucks oh I can get that one for $129 $159 and then before you know you're paying $400 for a real tablet perhaps yeah uh speaking of of tablets that are expensive or companies that like to make expensive products let's talk about Apple cuz I I think they came out with two new iPhones or sort of thing there's an iPhone 5c there's the 5S and iOS 7 everything coming up pretty soon September 18th iOS 7 drops I believe the iPhone 5S doesn't actually have pre-orders you got to go to the store to get it and the 5c pre-orders I think are already open uh what what what what is your take on this well I'll jump in and uh you guys can spit ball this around with me um to me it looks like Apple's just catching up they've laid the foundation with the A7 um for future generation products I think that was a a good move for them 64-bit processor uh 64-bit arm core based processor um a system on a chip I think that's that's a that's a good foundation for future generation products the rest of it frankly in my opinion was a yawn um you're talking about an 8 megapixel eyesight camera now with uh you know f2.2 aperture okay um you know really you know the touch ID system that that's interesting fingerprint scanner that's that's novel um but but not a lot of breakout um features that I you know am wowed by uh you know they talk about better multitasking they talk about a lot of different features built into whether it be the interface or the hardware that is really catch up to what's already in the market whether it be your high-end Android devices like the the Samsung Galaxy S4 or even LG's Optimus G Pro or the G2 um you're talking about catchup here in in my opinion on on a lot of levels for Apple um although I like that A7 that 64-bit processor it's a good foundation it's a good start um you know I think certainly the press and uh and the market was expecting expecting more a larger screen would have been you know great for starters Marco what's your take on the uh on either phone so I have I have a couple of of things just random thoughts that pop into my head first um I I love how people are trying now to explain how Innovative apple is for making a plastic phone considering how much crap they gave other companies like really not not even being funny um I'm friends with something like a thousand people on Facebook and lots of them are industry people and seeing responses to the 5C on how Innovative it is I was shocked like I think it's great that apple is trying to make a lower priced iPhone but then it wasn't really that much lower price so I don't really understand what they're doing maybe they're going to make more money off it but my impression leading up to the release was that the plastic iPhone was going to be more affordable for maybe emerging markets and it doesn't seem like that's the case now with the 5S the fingerprint scanner is a cool feature it's not mic apple is not first with that by the way I had a moto Atrix a couple years ago with a fingerprint scanner built in so yeah don't think Apple did it first but their design is really nice it just it's happening at a bad time with all this you know all the NSA news recently I think people are going to be leery about a having their fingerprints stored in their devices apple is saying they're not going to be put up in the cloud but if you really think about it that's one huge database of usernames and fingerprints should they want want to be used nefariously I don't know I'm just throwing that out there in terms of the device I I really wish Apple would innovate with the design the iPhone 5 is is nice but when you look at it next to some of the more recently released devices like the HTC1 or the Galaxy S4 it's it's too small now I don't care what anybody says it's too small Now versus some of the Leading Edge Android devices and it looks the same as last year's device the 64-bit processor yes it lays the foundation and it may open up some interesting things years down the road when software is optimized for it but it's not going to mean a whole heck of a lot now so there's lots of concerns and I guess it's sort of showing in the the slide of the stock price yeah you know jumping in on that um security uh hook um I think even even Beyond just sending out that fingerprint to the cloud whether or not that happens um if your device gets hacked or compromise somehow and let's face it it'll be done um someone will figure it out your fingerprints out there and that's that can't be a good thing may you know maybe I'm all wet maybe maybe maybe there there's an encryption method here that just can't be broken and I'm sure Apple will secure that um but it'll you know the community will probably figure it out when it comes to the 5c the bad Community the 5c doesn't have the fingerprint sensor just the higher end 5S that's also the one that that's the only one that has that new A7 64-bit processor uh Apple definitely keeping the lines distinct somebody compared this to the MacBook line versus the MacBook Pro Line it's starting to look that way you got the plastic one you got the metal one this the old MacBooks used to be plastic if you forgot that a long time ago now they're all metal yeah so it could be a differentiation strategy the color move uh I think Nokia made fun of them for that they're like hey polycarbonate what a great idea a good camera like hey we kind of thought that's a good idea too uh a lot of the a lot of the stuff seems catch up to me too but the thing is if Apple doesn't catch up they're going to be falling behind right so this 5s and 5c are like they're obviously the the rest stop until the six the six will probably have a larger screen because how many times can you tell developers hey rewrite your apps we're having a new uh operating system so iOS 7 we want new stuff with that change I think that's asking developers a lot if they change screen sizes and up the resolution you have to make sure that the the SDK allows for different resolutions because now you're starting to fragment your own audience so I think Apple's really slow when it comes to that because they're afraid of taking off their large developer base considering Android has so many different platform like so many different phones why would you stick to iOS if you could just write for Android especially with their new sdks so it's it's it's a small and yet yawn worthy step I think one more quick point oh sorry go ahead Dave no no no that's fine go ahead jump jump in point it seems like all three of us had had some uh some criticism here but in the end Apple's going to sell more of of them than every other smartphone still going to sell like crazy it's still it's still it's still a nice phone it's not like like oh this is this is not the LG Optimus V or phones it's the iPhone yeah you're absolutely right Marco I mean they're they're going to sell like hot cakes no M no matter what and and what's interesting and what you have to give Apple credit for is marketing and um you know owner and user um I I guess cultivation of user base you know they they maintain customer like nobody's business they they they get you in they get their hooks in you and then they deliver you know they deliver a quality product and service to go with it the whole ecosystem and the platform to go with it that keeps you there and so you got to give them credit where credits do they've got a very passionate fan base a very passionate user base and I experienced it firsthand I I wrote a little column at Forbes actually uh on the A7 um and the 64 bidness if if that's a word of that processor and how how Innovative it is it certainly is a good first step and definitely an Innovative step in the handset Arena um but folks are thinking that this is a 64-bit processor and so automatically it's going to be twice as fast as a 32-bit processor right no it's not that simple uh it doesn't quite work that way you're talking about you know additional um instruction set expansion and registers and things like that you're not talking about memory bandwidth uh doubling your memory bandra right out of the shoot it just doesn't work that way um it's not a it's not an efficient scaling you know 2x performance for 64-bit processor in a 64-bit OS as a matter of fact in some cases there's it's it's it's not going to be as fast and there are some certain applications where it's going to be faster for sure um it's a good platform move for Intel or excuse me for Apple rather um you're you're talking about you know a platform for the future and you can see where they're going to be able to build off this and and and take it to the next level but for this iteration of the phone and I know they wied out who was the game developer that they wied out to demo do the 64-bit game demo Infinity Blade was it Infinity Blade was the game I don't know who the developer is that was that was the game right I'm sorry um yeah so I mean you know they're always going to bring out the proof of concept vehicle and you know here's here's an endorsement and all that guaranteed and we'll have to see what the numbers look like when this thing when we Benchmark this thing 64 B versus 32-bit mode and if there's a way to look at that cleanly by the way between um identical workloads or similar workloads running in 64 32bit mode but I can't see there being a huge Quantum Leap in performance just for a 64-bit I think there's going to be a big performance jump between generations of processor but that performance jump comes from the other enhancements to the core not the fact that it's just a 64-bit coron OS what do you think about that Marco I I think you're right I software has to be you know you need the 64-bit OS true 64-bit software something to leverage the the the CPU cores themselves to really show the benefit just SW you know if you just to go back in the old PC days when AMD released the Athlon 64 um its performance gains came by way of the architecture not because if it was not because it was a 64-bit processor it was years later that we've switched to 64-bit os's you know where they became normal and four gigs of memory where you can address it you know 32-bit can only address four gigs of memory 64-bit can do much more right so yeah there there's lots that has to happen before that 64-bit means a lot across the board and I want to make one more quick point I know we're running long here you say we need to give credit where credit is due and apple does great at marketing um and all that stuff which is all true but what a there's and I'm not saying all Apple Fans I'm not saying all Apple Fans I'm looking in the camera not all of you there is a it's coming there's a large group of Apple Fans that no matter what Apple does it's great these same people that were ripping tons of Android manufacturers for having plasticky phones now Plastics good and it's not because Apple's doing something special with the plastics it's because Apple used plastic it's th those fans it's it's fanboyism and that's the only way to explain it fanboyism is alive and well pretty much wherever you go people love to think that their decision is right you know they part with money or anything they must be right and I don't care I mean whatever does the job I mean if if if if if Apple rewrites their OS that the 64-bit processor makes more sense and things work well you get battery life or all kinds of performance increases that you can get because they have all of that control compared to somebody like Samsung who did announce they are going to have 64-bit processors in the future uh it's it's it's about having that that system work whether it's plastic or not it's a whole other thing and people are going to love and hate constantly uh and anything else before we wrap up this episode yeah just quickly because it showed up today and I I don't even have the model number memorized but this just showed up this is a brand new Intel Haswell based nuck system so it looks a little smaller than last year definitely more connectivity I will reveal more soon when I plug it in and test it out do you have the box oh I do let's see if it works though I think I jinxed it earlier here's part of the box let's see if it works it didn't work yay okay so if you open up that flap again we can see we can actually see what looks like a doorbell or some kind of little speaker so there's a little thing that was playing the Intel uh jingle and it's not working every time so I don't know what's up with I think that's brilliant and we were talking about the cult of Apple that's the way you do it you have a little jingle when you open up a box and you're like yes I know that sound it's like when I buy something Amazon should get on this you know it would be even better if you hacked the boxes before it shipped and some little kid opens it it says kill your mother that would be awesome you're right that's probably nice it won't happen uh that's that's a shame that but it it'd be interesting to see I guess that would be a great security story to cover i' I'd love to cover that it's like oh wait let let me try it again let me try it again hold on kill your mother all right oh we have completely devolved now haven't we yes but if you want to evolve or revolve or whatever it is evolve uh you can go to hot harbor.com cuz uh the stories that you guys have written out the reviews the performance uh benchmarks everything you got there is done in a straight laced manner with some humor there's you guys are on the rails at hot harbor.com uh and if you're wondered about any of the stuff we talked about guess what everything we talked about was atot harbor.com surprise go figure yeah secret word there should be Ducks falling and confetti but anyway uh if if people wanted to go around the web and not see Ducks uh where could where could they go what if they want to see like a blue bird and hot Hardware content Dave you got anything like a bluebird and a short characters that bird might be tweeting perhaps yes that would be twitter.com Hardware don't you know if you wanted to see skateboarding dogs and then you wanted to look at hot Hardware uh videos where would you do that Marco skateboarding dogs youtube.com hardwar vids if you wanted to see pictures of everybody's kids and then you wanted to see hot hardware and you still like the color blue on the top where should they go Dave um facebook.com/ hot Hardware yeah that's it with lots of pictures of Marco's kids what if you like a black thing on the top instead instead of blue I had such a bad joke I wanted to tell right there but I'm not going to do it one day off the air you were going to crucify me probably no I wasn't I wasn't I'll say it off the air anyway the black strip I was talking about is Google+ you can go to go+ and search for hot Hardware uh that's also out there was any anything I'm forgetting I don't know there come by the site that's where you get the real juice hot hardware.com again like if you don't want to see pictures of kids and skateboarding dogs and this nonsense hot hardware.com unless they're involved in the actual demo which I don't know uh And subscribe to us on YouTube because we want you here constantly yes we want you to watch us we love you we do love you H let's give you a big hug and patch in the back and say thank you for stopping bycoming up on two and half Geeks we're going to be talking about the Oculus Rift VR system then we'll hit some Intel Developers for them some new iPhones and a whole lot more the bar has been set wicked fast it rocked in the benchmarks we're going to up the anti a little bit processing power I kind of understand this welcome back to tun F Geeks I'm is actor alongside hot Hardware's own Marco chapeta and Dave altavilla how are you you guys doing let's ask Dave first how are you doing I'm doing spectacular this evening and how are you young uh I'm doing quite well I'm aging so I'm I'm getting rid of that that first that adjective there how are you doing Mr chapeta I'm doing good I am uh just back from San Francisco and next week I head to Hawaii to see some new stuff some nude stuff excuse me what was that nude stuff nude stuff and new stuff nice perfect good for you uh I guess let's jump into like technology uh I guess that guess the nude stuff is a different kind of hot Hardware let's go to the Oculus Rift VR system you guys have an eyes on or eyes in or whatever the heck you want to say I guess adjacent to a screen uh I've seen the ridiculous old prototype held together with duct tape what did you guys find out Dave well if you're looking at nude stuff through this it's G to get real as I as the saying goes but um yeah no actually uh we had uh one of our uh sleuths on the scene Brian uh was reporting at PAX Prime for us 2013 this year and got some Hands-On time with the Oculus Rift and it is significantly more refined this is a virtual reality gaming headset or actually it's really not even necessarily a gaming headset it's all sorts of different applications you can think of for this technology but a virtual reality headset and um very impressive technology to say the least turns uh certainly the gaming Paradigm on its ear here um lots of uh additional field of view you've get this uh 110° extra wide field of view and you actually very much feel immersed in the world if you look to the the farthest edge of the displays you know and you you intentionally try and find the edge you actually can see it but normal you know forward view just walking around in a virtual world let's say um it literally feels you know horizontally and vertically like you are completely surrounded and immersed in the world so an impressive technology and uh Brian was lucky enough to be able to step into Oculus vr's booth and strap one of these things on it's pretty cool yeah from what I was reading the idea is you probably want to be seated when you're using this the idea of looking around a cockpit in a car or an airplane seems fine but apparently walking around could lead to disastrous results well yeah I mean if you think about it um and certainly there's there's been different uh gadgets and and setups that have been engineered to go along with these things that we've seen treadmills by the way 360 degree treadmills with people strapping on an Oculus Rift and then walking around safely in this in this sort of cage treadmill area so they don't bump into walls and obviously if you're in a virtual world and it's completely around you and you're walking around the real world that's outside you're gonna you could just walk off a cliff or walk into a wall or traffic or something like that it's a bad idea so um but but really it's it's it's an imp RVE technology and and and our editor actually you know experienced a couple of different genres with it certainly racing now you're in a cockpit it's a very sort of confined environment and you and you look around and you can see different um views outside of your windshield you know be you know a little bit behind you you know you can see like the seat and the straps and it just makes the the whole experience you know that much more real what it feels like in a firstperson shooter and or maybe a role playing game or something where you're actually a character walking around freely in a world it's a totally different ball of wax because now you're talking about um certainly have that field of view but even even simple things need to be re-engineered versus what we're used to in a a standard sort of gaming environment uh things like let's say your inventory menu which normally comes up on a on on the screen as a flat menu of of objects well you know it looks okay it's just this little panel that sticks up with up in front of you and your virtual world but wouldn't it be better and and it can be built this way if you just look down and see what you were holding in your hands or maybe it's strapped across your belt or something like that um so there was there's this whole plethora of of I guess opportunity that's that's now available with this sort of field of view with this whole different perspective of being immersed in the world where you can engineer a game title to really take advantage of a virtual environment and so it's it's an impressive technology with lots of potential um but you know certainly some drawbacks there there's some other little things with it too like you know our our editor briyan uh mentioned having that feeling of quote unquote tickle tummy well yeah guess what you know you're looking down over a cliff and you know things start to get you know real I mean you're you're looking at you know height and and movement and you know all this different stuff from within the game not in front of you and it's it's that much more immersive and real and so speed and and depth and distance and all of that is just you know it impacts you from from all angles I don't know I here it's going to be like $300 $400 to to feel kind of motion sick in my own house I could just spin in a chair it's much cheaper exactly or go to you know Six Flags and you know five bucks for a ride or whatever but n it could be some pretty cool stuff and I think the motion sickness uh or whatever you'll they'll get a handle on that uh pretty quickly I would imagine yeah Oculus Rift comes with uh three or four barf bags I hear uh once it comes out next year I he but I'm making that up anyway let's talk about Intel developers Forum just happened Marco you were in San Francisco to check out a whole bunch of things all kinds of Intel actually showing off a working 14 nanometer Broadwell the next generation of the Core Series yeah absolutely so there was a ton of stuff at IDF to to give a little backstory um idf's usually full of surprises and we don't get too many pre-brief there's lots of sort of private meetings and and uh unveilings there but this year we we were pre-brief on Bay tril we had some information before we got there there was an embargo in place on some of the bay tril stuff so we thought IDF well I thought IDF was going to be the the bay tril show and there weren't going to be too many surprises but when we got there the the very first day the very first keynote Intel's new CEO Brian kenic I thought he did a fantastic job with the opening keynote he's he's very even ke doesn't seem like the type of guy that's going to do anything rash or crazy he's not going to have a a Balmer developers moment running across the stage was was a real was a real good speaker I thought and while he was on stage for the opening day keynote he just happened to unveil A system that was up and running running Windows 8 fully operational with a 14 nanometer Broadwell processor and if you're unfamiliar with Broadwell it's the follow on to Haswell which was recently released but shrunk down to 14 nmet so a lower power part potentially higher clocks there's no real information to disclose yet but it was great to see 14 nmet already working in that early demo at IDF it was pretty cool now he also showed off a 22 nmet smartphone uh Intel not exactly known for its smartphone business or at least being in smartphones do do you see any potential Partners do they talk about anything because I think Motorola is like one of the few companies that actually uses an Intel chip right see I think Intel is in a in a fun funky spot right now in terms of smartphones um the bay tril processor and and negen NextGen followup to that they're looking really strong however Intel hasn't had a good LTE modem to this point or actually any good LTE modem to pair with their processor so that was one of the things one of the many things holding them back from Gaining Traction in the smartphone space but in addition to showing off a smartphone with a 22 nmet atom based processor inside they also showed off a new LTE modem um that could do carrier aggregation so on stage live with the smartphone in hand they were monitoring bandwidth to this particular phone and they didn't say which network it was but it was without the carrier aggregation on it was pulling 35 megabits they flipped it on and all of a sudden this this prototype phone was pulling 70 megabits out of the air and they're thinking by next year they can get that up to 140 megabits so it seems that you know Intel is definitely on the right track and they're serious about getting into smartphones so when it came to other processors there was the tinier than Adam cork I read an interview with Intel president Renee James and she was like it's so nerdy I love the naming convention because you know core Adam quk apart from the name what's cool about the quork so the quk is is interesting it's it's a really tiny x86 core the x1000 that was shown on stage it's 1/5 the size of atom at on10th the power so it's a really low power uh really low power lower performing than Adam core but what's more interesting about cork is that it's fully synthes synthesizable probably get that word out right and what Intel is going to offer with quk is if a company has third party IP that they want to incorporate onto the chip um Quark has attach points and a standard fabric where people will be able to attach their IP to the core cores and Intel will manufacture it so it's kind of a not only a way to sell a new low power core for you know whatever kind of device it's also a way for Intel to use some of the unused capacity in their Fabs and make a little money that way as well now this is highly unusual jump in there and offer that I think it's also the beginning of Intel's play to compete with arm obviously as well uh selling that uh that IP and and certainly you know a manufacturing progress and access that arm doesn't have actually you know arm just sells the IP they don't manufacture the chip so it's kind of a onetwo punch it could be very interesting to see what that leads to down the road yeah see this is why I thought Chris anic might have been a little bit uh nuts for doing something that this is this is unusual for Intel I don't believe there's anything else that's ever done this unless I'm wrong Marco at least it's not in recent memory that they have allowed this kind of uh not even like open discussions this is like they make a processor you buy it that's pretty much usually how it goes Yeah well yeah exactly this is this is as as far as I'm aware the first fully synthesizable core from Intel and this is the first time that they're allowing their x86 cores to be paired with third-party IP on a single piece of silicon that they manufacture so who knows what this is going to going to open up for Intel it's definitely an interesting time and I noticed in the uh in the rundown for today on IDF week or weekend whatever how long it was that the actual conference AMD snuck in news how how does that even work so it's it's anytime the tech press is in town for something um all of the competitors to whatever company is hosting the main event kind of glom on to try to get some of your time and of course while I was out there meeting with Intel I also met with Nvidia and AMD and a few other companies um so AMD was showing off some some tablet design wins many pro many laptops running their apus but amidst their demos there was a cavar system running within Oculus Rift now it wasn't a crazy high-end demo is running like a unigene engine at low res something like 800 by 600 but the fact that cavar was up and running with the 3D title and the Oculus Rift shows that the processor is coming along there were rumors that it's going to be delayed much later than AMD originally said but that was it was confirmed at my meeting they are still planning to release Cav end of this year for availability early next year let's move on to uh the new version of Adam Bay Trail now when it comes to adom processors a lot of us remember them from netbooks and we're like yeah you got battery life and it's kind of a computer it's just it's pretty slow but there's battery of life now the new version of Adam is supposed to have something called I think it's called good performance is this right Dave yeah it's actually impressive performance actually for for Adam to be honest with you and um you're talking about uh a new 22 nanometer technology uh now that 3D trigate uh technology that Intel has been evangelizing for the past year or so and uh it is the new buffed out and and beefed up atom um so now you're talking about an atom core uh that scales up to 2.4 GHz turbo uh it is a quad core device without hyperthreading it's a one toone core to thread uh Association there so no hyperthreading uh it is an outof order engine uh so that is the first for the atom um family of processors outof order execution engine so it will optimize uh execution of uh instructions um you know efficiently more efficiently at least theoretically and in practice we actually realized that it it was significantly faster clock for clock than uh the previous generation atom Clover Trail uh platform uh and an impressive impressive uh chip for the mobile space primarily for tablets as Marco alluded to um you know the modem integration isn't quite there so you're not going to see uh much of this in the way of handsets um but for tablets and Ultra Portables detachables devices like that this is an impressive uh impressive chip Graphics also beefed up on this as well and as a result we were able to see performance in some of the standard Android benchmarks that we look at um that's on par with some of the fastest um Android powered um devices on the market these days or excuse me uh arm-powered uh Android devices that are on the market these days even nvidia's latest Tegra 4 chip um so good stuff uh and and of course in in traditional Windows benchmarks uh you know it was like miles ahead of clover Trail um I have to look up the numbers here specifically but impressive stuff for Intel now Marco you actually had Hands-On time with with a reference device using that actually ran one of these bait Trail uh processors ex yeah it was actually one of the geekiest things ever in the history of IDF so we it's the day the day before IDF um I got to spend some time at Intel's headquarters getting you know deep deep dive briefings on Bay tril and there was a few hours where we could there people were broken up into groups and we were allowed to install our own apps so it wasn't Intel controlled app we installed our own stuff got stuff from the app Marketplace um and ran benchmarks the the groups were broken up into into two separate groups and the first group which I happen to be in we killed a ton of our time installing all of our apps so Intel allowed a handful of us to meet up at a hotel suite at night and they brought all the devices in so it was like 20 Geeks crammed in a room just running as many benchmarks as we could on these Bay tril tablets so that was the geek one of the geekiest moments ever but to speak to the device for a minute I I had my hands on a on Android betrail Android device and windows 81 device it was the same reference platform um 2560 by 1440 screen all Intel Inside obviously betr powered and in my experience the the Android version was functional there's definitely lots of work left to do on the software side wasn't quite as great an experience as the windows 81 device the windows 81 device was nearly Flawless it was super fast it ran very well and just to go back to what Dave had mentioned that bay tril is a true quad core device Intel found that with their really fine grain clock aing and other power saving tools with betrail they could gain more performance per die area by having four actual cores than by leveraging hyperthreading as they did with clover over Trail so with four real cores in there and they're out of order cores now which will mostly outperform um in order cores with modern software you get a really good experience surprisingly from a real low power part so Windows 81 was running flawlessly on this on this device very smooth touch obviously apps ran really well and not only did it outperform Clover Trail but it's competing and beating an A4 Apu from AMD which is their like notebook part so Intel's tablet part can compete with you know quad cord or AMD mobile part notebook Parts it's pretty crazy so yeah we actually looking at some of the Benchmark numbers now that uh you know we went we stepped through in this review um you actually see where Bay tril is over twice as fast in general compute versus a previous generation Clover Trail product and um in graphics it's like it like blows it out of the water it's like not even in the same league and so literally what you see certainly in in standard Windows testing is just this huge leap in performance and so it's impressive and then when you stack it up in our Android testing versus devices like you know the Galaxy Note 2 the Nexus 7 Google Nexus 7 recently introduced you know this is current Generation stuff and then future generation stuff like Nvidia Shield which really is only available the Tegra 4 which is available on Nvidia Shield currently um hanging with that as well from a graphics standpoint so kudos to Intel for stepping it up a notch with b tril and will be interesting to see here in Q4 those products are going to be shipping interesting to see what what those tablets look like and um and what performance is like um if it's any indication with uh the experience that Marco had it's going to be it's going to be a happy uh Q4 season for for Intel based tablets yeah the winning popularity of PC the form factor laptops I'm thinking Intel trying to get into the tablet space as much I'm really curious about the way that Android tablet performed or hearing that it wasn't as good as an 8.1 experience right so that seems like that Intel obviously trying to get into every which way I believe cork might end up in SmartWatches and other smaller devices if the atom is any good it could be in things like Chromebooks who knows where it'll end up uh because there's a lot of cheap cheap machines out there nowadays it's going to be kind of hard to speak speaking of of cheap IAS I'm sorry to interrupt one of the things that uh kranich mentioned on stage at IDF was this holiday season there will be sub $100 Bay tril based uh mobile devices I don't know exactly what device I don't know how fast that bay tril Chip's going to be but he said sub $100 that's pretty crazy yeah I I read that quote that seems insane to me also though uh you're going to get the you get what you pay for because I remember netbooks getting really cheap but boy did they get chintzy when it comes to build quality so while even if you can put a low-end processor in there which is still really amazing compared to the last generation stuff if the display is crap or if the keyboard stinks or if there's no keyboard This is sorry we're talking about tablets here uh if if if the touchcreen is no good people might not want to buy this or at least it be that price point you go 99 bucks oh I can get that one for $129 $159 and then before you know you're paying $400 for a real tablet perhaps yeah uh speaking of of tablets that are expensive or companies that like to make expensive products let's talk about Apple cuz I I think they came out with two new iPhones or sort of thing there's an iPhone 5c there's the 5S and iOS 7 everything coming up pretty soon September 18th iOS 7 drops I believe the iPhone 5S doesn't actually have pre-orders you got to go to the store to get it and the 5c pre-orders I think are already open uh what what what what is your take on this well I'll jump in and uh you guys can spit ball this around with me um to me it looks like Apple's just catching up they've laid the foundation with the A7 um for future generation products I think that was a a good move for them 64-bit processor uh 64-bit arm core based processor um a system on a chip I think that's that's a that's a good foundation for future generation products the rest of it frankly in my opinion was a yawn um you're talking about an 8 megapixel eyesight camera now with uh you know f2.2 aperture okay um you know really you know the touch ID system that that's interesting fingerprint scanner that's that's novel um but but not a lot of breakout um features that I you know am wowed by uh you know they talk about better multitasking they talk about a lot of different features built into whether it be the interface or the hardware that is really catch up to what's already in the market whether it be your high-end Android devices like the the Samsung Galaxy S4 or even LG's Optimus G Pro or the G2 um you're talking about catchup here in in my opinion on on a lot of levels for Apple um although I like that A7 that 64-bit processor it's a good foundation it's a good start um you know I think certainly the press and uh and the market was expecting expecting more a larger screen would have been you know great for starters Marco what's your take on the uh on either phone so I have I have a couple of of things just random thoughts that pop into my head first um I I love how people are trying now to explain how Innovative apple is for making a plastic phone considering how much crap they gave other companies like really not not even being funny um I'm friends with something like a thousand people on Facebook and lots of them are industry people and seeing responses to the 5C on how Innovative it is I was shocked like I think it's great that apple is trying to make a lower priced iPhone but then it wasn't really that much lower price so I don't really understand what they're doing maybe they're going to make more money off it but my impression leading up to the release was that the plastic iPhone was going to be more affordable for maybe emerging markets and it doesn't seem like that's the case now with the 5S the fingerprint scanner is a cool feature it's not mic apple is not first with that by the way I had a moto Atrix a couple years ago with a fingerprint scanner built in so yeah don't think Apple did it first but their design is really nice it just it's happening at a bad time with all this you know all the NSA news recently I think people are going to be leery about a having their fingerprints stored in their devices apple is saying they're not going to be put up in the cloud but if you really think about it that's one huge database of usernames and fingerprints should they want want to be used nefariously I don't know I'm just throwing that out there in terms of the device I I really wish Apple would innovate with the design the iPhone 5 is is nice but when you look at it next to some of the more recently released devices like the HTC1 or the Galaxy S4 it's it's too small now I don't care what anybody says it's too small Now versus some of the Leading Edge Android devices and it looks the same as last year's device the 64-bit processor yes it lays the foundation and it may open up some interesting things years down the road when software is optimized for it but it's not going to mean a whole heck of a lot now so there's lots of concerns and I guess it's sort of showing in the the slide of the stock price yeah you know jumping in on that um security uh hook um I think even even Beyond just sending out that fingerprint to the cloud whether or not that happens um if your device gets hacked or compromise somehow and let's face it it'll be done um someone will figure it out your fingerprints out there and that's that can't be a good thing may you know maybe I'm all wet maybe maybe maybe there there's an encryption method here that just can't be broken and I'm sure Apple will secure that um but it'll you know the community will probably figure it out when it comes to the 5c the bad Community the 5c doesn't have the fingerprint sensor just the higher end 5S that's also the one that that's the only one that has that new A7 64-bit processor uh Apple definitely keeping the lines distinct somebody compared this to the MacBook line versus the MacBook Pro Line it's starting to look that way you got the plastic one you got the metal one this the old MacBooks used to be plastic if you forgot that a long time ago now they're all metal yeah so it could be a differentiation strategy the color move uh I think Nokia made fun of them for that they're like hey polycarbonate what a great idea a good camera like hey we kind of thought that's a good idea too uh a lot of the a lot of the stuff seems catch up to me too but the thing is if Apple doesn't catch up they're going to be falling behind right so this 5s and 5c are like they're obviously the the rest stop until the six the six will probably have a larger screen because how many times can you tell developers hey rewrite your apps we're having a new uh operating system so iOS 7 we want new stuff with that change I think that's asking developers a lot if they change screen sizes and up the resolution you have to make sure that the the SDK allows for different resolutions because now you're starting to fragment your own audience so I think Apple's really slow when it comes to that because they're afraid of taking off their large developer base considering Android has so many different platform like so many different phones why would you stick to iOS if you could just write for Android especially with their new sdks so it's it's it's a small and yet yawn worthy step I think one more quick point oh sorry go ahead Dave no no no that's fine go ahead jump jump in point it seems like all three of us had had some uh some criticism here but in the end Apple's going to sell more of of them than every other smartphone still going to sell like crazy it's still it's still it's still a nice phone it's not like like oh this is this is not the LG Optimus V or phones it's the iPhone yeah you're absolutely right Marco I mean they're they're going to sell like hot cakes no M no matter what and and what's interesting and what you have to give Apple credit for is marketing and um you know owner and user um I I guess cultivation of user base you know they they maintain customer like nobody's business they they they get you in they get their hooks in you and then they deliver you know they deliver a quality product and service to go with it the whole ecosystem and the platform to go with it that keeps you there and so you got to give them credit where credits do they've got a very passionate fan base a very passionate user base and I experienced it firsthand I I wrote a little column at Forbes actually uh on the A7 um and the 64 bidness if if that's a word of that processor and how how Innovative it is it certainly is a good first step and definitely an Innovative step in the handset Arena um but folks are thinking that this is a 64-bit processor and so automatically it's going to be twice as fast as a 32-bit processor right no it's not that simple uh it doesn't quite work that way you're talking about you know additional um instruction set expansion and registers and things like that you're not talking about memory bandwidth uh doubling your memory bandra right out of the shoot it just doesn't work that way um it's not a it's not an efficient scaling you know 2x performance for 64-bit processor in a 64-bit OS as a matter of fact in some cases there's it's it's it's not going to be as fast and there are some certain applications where it's going to be faster for sure um it's a good platform move for Intel or excuse me for Apple rather um you're you're talking about you know a platform for the future and you can see where they're going to be able to build off this and and and take it to the next level but for this iteration of the phone and I know they wied out who was the game developer that they wied out to demo do the 64-bit game demo Infinity Blade was it Infinity Blade was the game I don't know who the developer is that was that was the game right I'm sorry um yeah so I mean you know they're always going to bring out the proof of concept vehicle and you know here's here's an endorsement and all that guaranteed and we'll have to see what the numbers look like when this thing when we Benchmark this thing 64 B versus 32-bit mode and if there's a way to look at that cleanly by the way between um identical workloads or similar workloads running in 64 32bit mode but I can't see there being a huge Quantum Leap in performance just for a 64-bit I think there's going to be a big performance jump between generations of processor but that performance jump comes from the other enhancements to the core not the fact that it's just a 64-bit coron OS what do you think about that Marco I I think you're right I software has to be you know you need the 64-bit OS true 64-bit software something to leverage the the the CPU cores themselves to really show the benefit just SW you know if you just to go back in the old PC days when AMD released the Athlon 64 um its performance gains came by way of the architecture not because if it was not because it was a 64-bit processor it was years later that we've switched to 64-bit os's you know where they became normal and four gigs of memory where you can address it you know 32-bit can only address four gigs of memory 64-bit can do much more right so yeah there there's lots that has to happen before that 64-bit means a lot across the board and I want to make one more quick point I know we're running long here you say we need to give credit where credit is due and apple does great at marketing um and all that stuff which is all true but what a there's and I'm not saying all Apple Fans I'm not saying all Apple Fans I'm looking in the camera not all of you there is a it's coming there's a large group of Apple Fans that no matter what Apple does it's great these same people that were ripping tons of Android manufacturers for having plasticky phones now Plastics good and it's not because Apple's doing something special with the plastics it's because Apple used plastic it's th those fans it's it's fanboyism and that's the only way to explain it fanboyism is alive and well pretty much wherever you go people love to think that their decision is right you know they part with money or anything they must be right and I don't care I mean whatever does the job I mean if if if if if Apple rewrites their OS that the 64-bit processor makes more sense and things work well you get battery life or all kinds of performance increases that you can get because they have all of that control compared to somebody like Samsung who did announce they are going to have 64-bit processors in the future uh it's it's it's about having that that system work whether it's plastic or not it's a whole other thing and people are going to love and hate constantly uh and anything else before we wrap up this episode yeah just quickly because it showed up today and I I don't even have the model number memorized but this just showed up this is a brand new Intel Haswell based nuck system so it looks a little smaller than last year definitely more connectivity I will reveal more soon when I plug it in and test it out do you have the box oh I do let's see if it works though I think I jinxed it earlier here's part of the box let's see if it works it didn't work yay okay so if you open up that flap again we can see we can actually see what looks like a doorbell or some kind of little speaker so there's a little thing that was playing the Intel uh jingle and it's not working every time so I don't know what's up with I think that's brilliant and we were talking about the cult of Apple that's the way you do it you have a little jingle when you open up a box and you're like yes I know that sound it's like when I buy something Amazon should get on this you know it would be even better if you hacked the boxes before it shipped and some little kid opens it it says kill your mother that would be awesome you're right that's probably nice it won't happen uh that's that's a shame that but it it'd be interesting to see I guess that would be a great security story to cover i' I'd love to cover that it's like oh wait let let me try it again let me try it again hold on kill your mother all right oh we have completely devolved now haven't we yes but if you want to evolve or revolve or whatever it is evolve uh you can go to hot harbor.com cuz uh the stories that you guys have written out the reviews the performance uh benchmarks everything you got there is done in a straight laced manner with some humor there's you guys are on the rails at hot harbor.com uh and if you're wondered about any of the stuff we talked about guess what everything we talked about was atot harbor.com surprise go figure yeah secret word there should be Ducks falling and confetti but anyway uh if if people wanted to go around the web and not see Ducks uh where could where could they go what if they want to see like a blue bird and hot Hardware content Dave you got anything like a bluebird and a short characters that bird might be tweeting perhaps yes that would be twitter.com Hardware don't you know if you wanted to see skateboarding dogs and then you wanted to look at hot Hardware uh videos where would you do that Marco skateboarding dogs youtube.com hardwar vids if you wanted to see pictures of everybody's kids and then you wanted to see hot hardware and you still like the color blue on the top where should they go Dave um facebook.com/ hot Hardware yeah that's it with lots of pictures of Marco's kids what if you like a black thing on the top instead instead of blue I had such a bad joke I wanted to tell right there but I'm not going to do it one day off the air you were going to crucify me probably no I wasn't I wasn't I'll say it off the air anyway the black strip I was talking about is Google+ you can go to go+ and search for hot Hardware uh that's also out there was any anything I'm forgetting I don't know there come by the site that's where you get the real juice hot hardware.com again like if you don't want to see pictures of kids and skateboarding dogs and this nonsense hot hardware.com unless they're involved in the actual demo which I don't know uh And subscribe to us on YouTube because we want you here constantly yes we want you to watch us we love you we do love you H let's give you a big hug and patch in the back and say thank you for stopping by\n"