The Allure of Cheap and Quirky Kei Cars: A Discussion with Experts

In Japan, the government has long been encouraging citizens to adopt small fuel-efficient cars that can navigate densely populated urban areas. As a result, unique and fascinating vehicles have emerged in response to these regulations. Known as "kei" cars, these tiny vehicles are designed to meet specific dimensions and engine size requirements. The resulting variety of designs is both astonishing and entertaining.

For instance, the Autozam AZ-1 boasts an unconventional door configuration, while the Honda Beat features a van-like design with a surprising array of variations. These kei cars have become beloved by enthusiasts and collectors alike, who appreciate their quirky charm and innovative approach to automotive design. However, it's essential to acknowledge the limitations of these vehicles in terms of highway driving and safety standards.

As Andy aptly pointed out, "these are small cars... they're not meant for highway driving; they're not meant for sharing roads with F-350s, let alone tractor trailers." Moreover, some experts have expressed concerns about the safety aspects of kei cars. Emily, who has shared her thoughts on this topic before, noted that even against other sedans, a smart car (a similar concept to a kei car) might not fare well in general.

Fortunately, enthusiasts and owners of these vehicles often possess valuable experience and insight into their strengths and weaknesses. For instance, the owner of a 1988 Renault Medallion recently brought this tiny vehicle into their personal fleet, highlighting its compact size and unique features. Meanwhile, John has recently acquired an 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S, demonstrating that even classic sports cars can be fascinating additions to one's collection.

Andy's question about sacrificing safety is a valid concern. Indeed, kei cars may not meet the same safety standards as modern vehicles, particularly in terms of crash testing and advanced technologies like airbags. However, it's essential to consider the context and intent behind these regulations. The Japanese government aimed to encourage environmentally friendly and space-efficient transportation solutions for urban dwellers.

Regarding parts availability, Keith highlights the advantages of being based in the Pacific Northwest, where Canada has a different rule on importing cars (15-year limit instead of 25 years). This results in a thriving community of kei car enthusiasts, particularly in British Columbia, where owners can access a wide range of parts and modifications. For those considering purchasing or collecting a kei car, exploring this local scene can provide valuable insights into the world of these quirky vehicles.

Ultimately, whether a kei car is an excellent choice for your needs depends on individual circumstances and priorities. Before investing in such a vehicle, it's advisable to research thoroughly and, if possible, test drive one to gauge its comfort and practicality. Furthermore, seeking advice from experts, like those shared in this discussion, can help you make informed decisions about adding a kei car to your collection.

For further insights into the world of classic cars, safety standards, and child passenger seats, visit talkingcars at icloud.com or cr.org.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enthis week we give our first impressions of the all-new all-electric pole star 2. we discuss the updated nissan frontier and find out why some dealers really want you to turn in your lease early next on talking cars hey welcome back i'm keith barry i'm emily thomas and i'm john linkove and uh you know normally we're a three-person podcast but i i see we have we have a fourth today who's actually very instrumental in in some in some of our testing right emily yep this is nehemiah uh they call him nemo at home but yeah he helps out with testing all the time that's that's wonderful it looks like he's testing the strength of your headphones right now but to start off uh we're going to talk about a card that um it has been a long time in a long time waiting for it there is a new nissan frontier finally the last frontier came out in about 2005 the prior frontier was um i mean there have been let's see there have been three popes three presidents i was i think i was still in college when it came out so um it's it's been a while uh this is a mid-sized truck competes with like the chevy colorado the ford ranger honda ridgeline now the jeep gladiator and of course the toyota tacoma uh it's a rough and tough truck uh it looks a lot rougher a lot tougher uh it gets the same engine as as uh what was updated for 2020 which is uh a v6 but uh with a nine speed automatic you can get rear wheel drive or front wheel drive we estimate it's going to be around 27 000 to start when it goes on sale this summer um john what is what's the big deal with a with a small uh pickup truck like this and and what's the big deal with the nissan finally getting an update well first of all it has a competitive product that they can sell um you know it's it's just outdated it doesn't have the technology it doesn't have the creature comforts let alone you know fuel economy let alone you know the the towing or cargo carrying capacities that all of its newer competitors have puts it at a disadvantage you can play so far on price um but if it's just not really even a viable option a comfortable option an appealing option you know and oftentimes price isn't even gonna matter if you're not gonna enjoy the vehicle um it's pretty impressive that you know they're keeping a lot of the frame and chassis the same um you know like but they're putting on all new sheet metal and really updating the interior um updating safety which is really a big thing uh putting on all you know a forward collision warning automatic emergency braking you know so so big stuff like that but even just the tailgate you know in in your story you talked about the tailgate won't slam down anymore you know just small little modern conveniences let alone apple carplay and android auto um because let's be honest yes lots of people use these for work but lots of people use these kind of as a family in a play and a maybe work vehicle as well so you know having something that actually isn't going to beat you up it goes a long way that's where the safety ratings come in too now so the big questions here and i don't you know when i was writing about this from the debut like oh great it looks it looks better of course all trucks look rugged nowadays they have to um but the big questions are about fuel economy because the the last one fuel economy was was was not great and also safety because it was such an old design it did not score well it was one of the only cars that didn't get you know good across the board um in in those safety tests but but those those remain unanswered we don't we don't we don't have those those answers yet but emily that's that's a that's a big deal right in terms of making sure that a car is is is safer that's uh that's a big deal right yeah it's i mean you want vehicle platforms to be updated you want to see redesigns especially with how quickly the safety technology is advancing these days you know like there's so many changes that have come about um in terms of passive safety features and all these new advanced driver assistance systems so for a vehicle that hasn't been touched in so long to get an update is is huge and super important and i think um for you know its demographic that it serves they're gonna be really appreciative of the fact that now they have a vehicle that is at par with the rest of you know its peer group and in some ways even ahead of its peer group because now it comes standard with aev and fcw unlike you know the colorado or the canyon where those aren't even available right so you know those are really good strides that they're making for their consumer base now john this is i mean emily mentions a consumer base and i know that you know nissan's come up with a new pathfinder too what's going on with with nissan um look they have a lot of products that have been coming out but they're also expanding in like you said nissan sentra small sedan nissan ultima mid-size sedan you know very very good products really great redesigns recently now we have pathfinder coming out the three-row suv you know you know what one of the big things that for people to look for look at though is you know maybe not jump on the new frontier the you know the minute it comes out because if a manufacturer is churning out a product moving to something new churning out a product moving to something new what happens here's two three or four does the focus get lost so look at how some of the redesigns work out look at the second and third year reliability on those products and then say okay i'm going to be willing to take you know a leap on the second or third year frontier but if those altimas and centers fall off the uh you know fall off the cliff so to speak with a reliability in their second and third years yeah don't run out that first year um uh frontier either so from a brand on the mend uh to a brand that is all new um we we got a we bought a car uh which which we do pretty often which usually isn't that momentous an occasion but this time it was a little different because the car we bought was a 2021 pole star 2. uh the pull start it's a 62 000 about what we paid for it uh electric car dual electric motors 406 horsepower all-wheel drive seating for five kind of a hatchback sort of design and a range of about 233 miles uh john what the what is a pole star now i i'm a i'm a guy who's i mean you can see the 240 speedometer in the background i know what pole star is but also this isn't the pole star that i know well so pole star is is the north star um okay can we bring it bring it down to earth bring it down bring us down earth okay so pole star historically it came from a a racing team um that then was working uh you know building performance versions of volvos and then volvo bought the racing team brought it in house then they uh were part of volvo and then when gili which is a chinese automaker bought volvo back in i believe 2010 um it uh they came along uh you know they're part of the ride um and now pole star has been changed to be performance evs so it would be like if amg were mercedes electric division exactly okay well um now volvo itself is also going to be making evs so i'm not i'm not quite sure uh what's going on here and also the car itself they're not sold through volvo dealers even though they kind of are we got ours from like a pop-up shop in manhattan yeah it got delivered to us and uh emily you actually used this car as like a daily driver uh for for a little while what what did what did you think of it yeah so i was pretty frustrated um really early on in my experience i i haven't driven a lot of the evs and so some of it is maybe just like the steep learning curve that i feel like is there so i got into the car and i was like darn it how do i even turn it on and so turning it on was a feat and then i wanted to turn it off and stepped out of the car to ask someone and the card magically turned itself off so i was like never mind i no longer have that question um and then we're millennials and we we don't like the fact that cars don't have on off buttons okay this isn't just old curmudgeons who are upset about this well see you're kind of an old curmudgeon at heart though so i'm not sure if both of us are the best to determine whether or not all millennials will like this but um my main struggles really came with the fact that i had michael with me and i needed to be able to install his car seat and in case you haven't met me before this is part of what i do for my job um but that being said every vehicle is different every manufacturer has different instructions for various things and um it was difficult for me even to be able to install my car seat easily you know i couldn't route his top tether for a forward-facing car seat and well you know that is not a requirement it is best practice and i knowing that knowing the safety benefit that it provides i was really frustrated that i tried to install this car seat in the outboard seat and i could not because i couldn't route that tether through i also had to climb into the hatch to be able to get the cargo cover off and to attach the top tether which any day that i literally have to climb into the vehicle is not a great day for me especially when i'm in a rush and i was that day so before we even got going it wasn't a great experience um that being said you know driving wise i didn't love the one pedal setting i thought it was really aggressive that those regen brakes um once i switched it to low it was better but i liked it best honestly when i was on the highway and i had cruise control on because i felt like the car was finally doing its own thing the way that it's supposed to maybe designed to do so without my input um so it was better that way it seems like it's sort of the worst the worst possible combination of um an all-new car brand that doesn't quite have its footing and the things that we don't like about volvo as opposed to the many many many things that we do like about volvo and i i you know the the controls basically they were they kind of so the car is powered 100 by android uh which means that you have to download there's no car play uh app yet there's going to be we were told um but that means that you have to download your your own you have to log into your google account or if you don't have one you have to create one and download versions of spotify maps things like that you can't download uh waze to the car because it only uses google maps and it'll you know that's that's because it'll ostensibly because it'll tell you how much range you have when you put in uh for a particular destination the problem was is that some of those were overly optimistic and that's something we heard over and over and over again is that the range estimates were overly optimistic here's only a 233 mile range on a car that's 62 000 i mean you're you're looking at competitors out there like the maki you're looking at competitors from tesla you're looking at new ones coming from nissan and with so many other drawbacks and i haven't even gotten into the seating position that you feel like you're you know driving in a tank and did your rails all the way up because i had to raise it all the way as far as i could possibly go and then seeing over your shoulder the in the back view the rear three quarter view was more like a rear you know one-eighths view like you're looking through a little like one of those toy viewfinders yeah it's it seems to be a vehicle that is is aspiring but they're five years ahead of where the industry is going or is right now you know it's everything's going to be through the screen and we're going to have the advanced controls and but the fundamentals are lost on it part of it's really advanced and part of it the range for example you know look 140 mile range is what some of the people you know some of our testers saw in real life use you know and that means turning off the heat and using just the seat heaters you know so that they can eat their way back to you know to get you know the car home or get to a charger or drop it off at the test track so it you know there's a lot it's a it's a first product and right now there's a lot of products coming out that seem much more fully baked for 20 or 30 thousand dollars less right right like the mustang ford mustang maki you mentioned you know like the nero like the you know yeah the kia niro the hyundai uh you know hyundai kona ev um you know look you could buy the jaguar i-pace and and it you know it does fairly well so tough tough start for the pole star too uh just getting its break in miles yeah so if you want to read more about it i mean we go into a lot more detail uh it's over at consumerreports.org we have had a lot of people spend a lot of time in this car and uh it's an interesting one uh so before we move on and move on we will uh we just wanted to take a moment to let you know about the talking cars donation program if you're not aware cr we're a non-profit that means that the work that we do is funded by memberships as well as donations so if you're able to give it really does help us keep doing this work that we do it helps keep us talking cars so you can find more information at cr.org give talking cars that's cr.org give talking cars and now on to some of that work that we do is answering your questions our first question is from wesley who writes from malaysia wesley says would cr recommend a purchase of a new lexus gs350 now that the vehicle is being discontinued i figure i might be able to find some good deals is it a mistake to invest in a car that won't be produced anymore now john there's there's a difference between like buying a lexus that's being discontinued and buying like uh like a 2011 saab 95 right yes i mean one's a classic one's a classic and and then one's the lexus so right key no but seriously look the lexus gs is being discontinued because it's not a platform that that lexus wants to invest in toyota wants to invest in uh you know big sedans not as popular these days suvs are where it's at you see chevrolet dropped the impala for example you see you know other manufacturers dropping uh you know smaller sedans big sedans you know not a surprise lexus you know made a really nice gs 350 when they last redesigned it and they kind of just it's it's been there i would have no problem buying this car i would have no problem saying buy a 10 year old lexus gs right now and keep it for another 10 years i don't know the parts supply uh you know situation in malaysia you know i don't know the volume of sales i can't speak to that but i would say to anybody if you like the car go ahead and get it you're not gonna have engine problems you're not gonna have transmission problems yes the electronics and some of the infotainment stuff maybe come out dated but i would say it's gonna be a solid car i would certainly buy it i would recommend buying it they're very reliable i would have no qualms about that and they're a blast to drive so enjoy it too um prashant from boston says i drive a lease 2018 honda crv with around 15 000 miles the lease ends in a few months the dealers reached out to me saying that he would like to repurchase it from me and is willing to offer up to 120 of the blue book value and will also give us a special price if we buy another honda from him is this a common practice does he know something i don't know um emily you've you've got some of these in the mail too right yeah we actually just got one this week my husband has um a 2015 a3 that we had bought used and he literally just got a letter uh two days ago offering it's the same percentage prashanth maybe maybe all the dealerships use the same number but 20 above the value um and you know we we own our car you know we bought it we're not leasing but you know what is the advice do they know something that we don't know about they do know something we don't know they know how much this car they know how much they they actually they know how much they need used cars in the lot because right now due to covid and a bunch of other factors used cars are in demand but what's especially in demand is a used car with very low miles and a 2018 crv is a very desirable car 15 000 miles aren't a lot so there's a chance that this dealership is going to be able to sell this car for a lot of money and that they need that car now because someone is asking for a crv with around 15 000 miles now there are words in in these offers that are like up to and that was these sort of weasel words you know yeah we can offer you up to 120 of the book value that you know it's five percent is up to 120 but the good news is that when you bought this car well sorry when you leased this car you signed a contract and in that contract there's something called um the buy-back number and it's based on the residual and what that means is basically um what this what honda assumed that uh 2018 crv would be worth three years down the road back in 2018 nobody knew anything about covid or anything that was going on now but they thought this car might be worth x amount of dollars chances are they probably underestimated because nobody expected to use car market to be this hot so go and look and see if that buyout number uh sorry that buyback number and you can call honda and ask and they'll give you what that number is if that number is less than what these cars are selling for uh at the local honda dealership or also less than what a trade-in uh offer is from a place like carmax or carvanha or one of those places where you can sell your used car to them um there's a chance that you could actually make money off your lease especially with a low mileage car um and that's that's that's kind of a that's that's some advice to take a look at but when it comes to whether this um this is called a pullback offer where they're trying to pull you in uh it's because the dealer needs a new car customer that's you and they need a used car customer and that's the person who's going to uh buy your crv when it's turned in so i i i'd handle it like like a separate transaction if you don't need a new car don't worry about it but you know john what would you do in this situation i would certainly do that research i would make sure that any of the costs associated with registering the car in your name um you know if you take ownership of it so whether you're getting a loan or you're going to pay money straight out to buy it uh you know basically a cash deal you know what that's going to cost you registering it taxes if you have to register it and you know re when you register in your name if there's a sales tax component for the state of massachusetts so doing all that research you don't want to get in there and all of a sudden find out you're making fifty dollars and you know overall just because of of the different costs of course if you then trade something in on trade it in and get an elevated cost often you could then lower the sales tax you pay on the new car um because they take that out of the price so there are there's advantages to doing it certainly don't just run in there you know puppy dog eyes uh thinking like oh the dealer wants me and they're my friend you know that they're they're reaching out to you for a reason and that's to make money not to you know get a 10 on a survey yeah but you can't there is a chance that you could get a you could get a good deal on your next car off off of this so uh rajesh from san francisco asks i am looking to get a fun to drive automatic transmission car that can accommodate my family of four which currently includes two child seats our budget is up to forty thousand dollars uh emily so as somebody told me enjoyable is relative um the way that i chose to think about enjoyable for this particular question is um think about how much you'll enjoy safely being in the car as a family and all the adventures you'll get to take so rajesh i because of the fact that you said that you have two child seats you know i'm thinking more from the perspective of you i don't know how old your kids are and i don't know which seats they're in currently nor do i know if you plan to expand the number of child seats that you may or may not be having um but thinking about like you know if this is a vehicle that you're going to be in for a while and your children are going to grow in it then you're going to need to have something that meets more than just your current you know circumstance right so their car seats are going to change um they are going to grow they might move out of their car seats etc so in terms of you know trying to make sure that you really get the most bang for your buck in terms of the vehicle that i thought of is the nissan rogue the new nissan rogue which we currently have in test our test car cost thirty three thousand two hundred and thirty dollars and that was the sv trim with the premium package um and still going through the paces with us and you know it doesn't have the ihs crash test um scores up yet so definitely wait for those before you make your complete decision but the reason that i chose this is because you know looking at the rear seat i can see that there are dedicated lower anchors for every seating position which if you were to get the rogue sport um it's not there in the center seat so just something to be aware of there are differences between the rogue and the rogue sport and the contours the geometry of the seat make it so that you know it will be easy to install a car seat whether you're using the lower anchors or if you have to use the seat belt which eventually you will as much as you i'm sure love your lower anchors right now there is a limit on them and you will have to switch to a seat belt installation so knowing whether or not you can get a secure fit matters but also thinking forward to as your children grow you know there's a lot of rear seat safety technology in that vehicle that you won't necessarily get at the same price point in other brands so things like um there's that rear door alert this is going to be something that reminds you or whoever is driving to check the back seat at the end of a trip you have to enable the function but it is well worth it it's worth the peace of mind um there's rear belt binders as your children get older they're going to be booster age kids or if you have any of the rear passengers it will let you know if they unbuckle during a trip there is actually um side airbags side torso airbags for the rear outboard passengers as well as advanced seat belt technology for the rear outboard passengers like pre-tensioners and load limiters so activate during your crash and you know better protect your your precious cargo in the back seat um so all those things combined would make it a vehicle that i would consider for my own family because if i'm thinking to the future and you know we have two kids we like to go on trips with them we like to like especially during cove there's a lot you can do so going on drives is probably like the funnest thing we're doing right now but um yeah and you know in our culture everyone who's older than you is an auntie and uncle so emily auntie is looking out for the kids and trying to make sure they're gonna have a good time in that car great advice i'm not even gonna give my i'm not even gonna give mine i'm just gonna i'm just gonna move on to the next question because what can i what can i offer here what can i offer uh andy from portland oregon asks uh i live in a one car household but i've been considering a second car for running errands around town i enjoy small cars and want something unique so i'm considering a japanese k car they appear to be inexpensive and are definitely interesting but since u.s law doesn't let you import a car until it's at least 25 years old i might be sacrificing some safety and parts availability is this a good idea for a cheap ancillary vehicle um so just in case you don't know a k car we're not talking about a a dodge aries or a plymouth reliant here uh this is uh this is kei and it has to do with the tax classification for vehicles in japan where basically the japanese government was trying to trying to encourage people to drive small fuel-efficient cars that would fit in uh very densely populated areas so these are cars that have to fit a particular dimension and they also have to have a small engine and as is the case often when artists and designers are given constraints they come up with some really fascinating stuff uh and some of these cars uh like the auto zam az-1 has going doors uh the honda beat uh there were cars that uh i mean they're they're vans they're they're just unbelievable variety of vehicles for everyone um the only issue is that as andy says uh these are small cars uh they're not meant for highway driving they're not meant for sharing roads with f-350s uh let alone tractor trailers uh and there are some safety concerns to me i mean we were talking about this before the show and emily you were sort of kind of down on the idea right well when i looked up the pictures because i'm not familiar with this particular type of car they kind of reminded me of smart cars and my concern there is you know that a smart car even against another sedan is still a tiny vehicle and so it's not going to fare well um in general you know if if you're not going to be able to get a vehicle that is at par with the safety standards for the us um and you know that is that par with the safety technology that's currently available you know i i would be hesitant even just for myself to drive around town but i know that the two of you have more experience with these types of vehicles and you know driving classics and so you know i i imagine your perspective is different well i just i just recently brought a uh uh one of the uh one of the last 1988 renault medallions into my own personal fleet and john i know you just you just took on a classic of your own i i took on a 1988 porsche 944 turbo s um it is it's just incredible i mean you know and go into it what emily's saying and we'll get back to andy's question just in that the car is so small compared to a car of today you know just like if you you know and i've seen pictures of the new porsche 911 the current 2021 you know against a classic one you know and it's like you could fit two inside the footprint of one so to the andy's point yeah um his question is say he'll be sacrificing some safety there's potential for a lot of safety and that's that's kind of that would be a concern of mine of course zipping around town a little little thing you know people drive forward festivas and and and fiestas and motorcycles you know motorcycles right you know e-bikes so you know some of it is just going to be being very aware um i i would be worried about the parts thing but keith i know you talked about the the scene and the availability too it's really good that you're in the pacific northwest because canada has a different rule on importing cars uh it's not the 25 year rule for them it's 15 years and as a result there's a huge scene uh especially because it's kind of cheap to import things from asia into the west coast uh in british columbia there's a there's a real huge scene for k cars for jdm for you know skylines for all that sort of stuff and as a result you're close to a sort of treasure trove of parts um i don't know if a k car is the best idea but maybe look into you know something if you're looking into a classic um if you have the opportunity you could you could at least try driving one and again you know before you pay uh two thousand dollars to ship something over from japan um see if you can find the sort of the local community and and and see if you can drive one and just see what it feels like so whether it is 25 year old japanese uh classics uh or whether it is uh sensible cars for the family uh send your questions to talking cars at icloud.com uh and head over to cr.org to learn more about a pole star learn more about nissan strategies learn more about backseat safety and child car seats thanks for talking cars with us talk again soonthis week we give our first impressions of the all-new all-electric pole star 2. we discuss the updated nissan frontier and find out why some dealers really want you to turn in your lease early next on talking cars hey welcome back i'm keith barry i'm emily thomas and i'm john linkove and uh you know normally we're a three-person podcast but i i see we have we have a fourth today who's actually very instrumental in in some in some of our testing right emily yep this is nehemiah uh they call him nemo at home but yeah he helps out with testing all the time that's that's wonderful it looks like he's testing the strength of your headphones right now but to start off uh we're going to talk about a card that um it has been a long time in a long time waiting for it there is a new nissan frontier finally the last frontier came out in about 2005 the prior frontier was um i mean there have been let's see there have been three popes three presidents i was i think i was still in college when it came out so um it's it's been a while uh this is a mid-sized truck competes with like the chevy colorado the ford ranger honda ridgeline now the jeep gladiator and of course the toyota tacoma uh it's a rough and tough truck uh it looks a lot rougher a lot tougher uh it gets the same engine as as uh what was updated for 2020 which is uh a v6 but uh with a nine speed automatic you can get rear wheel drive or front wheel drive we estimate it's going to be around 27 000 to start when it goes on sale this summer um john what is what's the big deal with a with a small uh pickup truck like this and and what's the big deal with the nissan finally getting an update well first of all it has a competitive product that they can sell um you know it's it's just outdated it doesn't have the technology it doesn't have the creature comforts let alone you know fuel economy let alone you know the the towing or cargo carrying capacities that all of its newer competitors have puts it at a disadvantage you can play so far on price um but if it's just not really even a viable option a comfortable option an appealing option you know and oftentimes price isn't even gonna matter if you're not gonna enjoy the vehicle um it's pretty impressive that you know they're keeping a lot of the frame and chassis the same um you know like but they're putting on all new sheet metal and really updating the interior um updating safety which is really a big thing uh putting on all you know a forward collision warning automatic emergency braking you know so so big stuff like that but even just the tailgate you know in in your story you talked about the tailgate won't slam down anymore you know just small little modern conveniences let alone apple carplay and android auto um because let's be honest yes lots of people use these for work but lots of people use these kind of as a family in a play and a maybe work vehicle as well so you know having something that actually isn't going to beat you up it goes a long way that's where the safety ratings come in too now so the big questions here and i don't you know when i was writing about this from the debut like oh great it looks it looks better of course all trucks look rugged nowadays they have to um but the big questions are about fuel economy because the the last one fuel economy was was was not great and also safety because it was such an old design it did not score well it was one of the only cars that didn't get you know good across the board um in in those safety tests but but those those remain unanswered we don't we don't we don't have those those answers yet but emily that's that's a that's a big deal right in terms of making sure that a car is is is safer that's uh that's a big deal right yeah it's i mean you want vehicle platforms to be updated you want to see redesigns especially with how quickly the safety technology is advancing these days you know like there's so many changes that have come about um in terms of passive safety features and all these new advanced driver assistance systems so for a vehicle that hasn't been touched in so long to get an update is is huge and super important and i think um for you know its demographic that it serves they're gonna be really appreciative of the fact that now they have a vehicle that is at par with the rest of you know its peer group and in some ways even ahead of its peer group because now it comes standard with aev and fcw unlike you know the colorado or the canyon where those aren't even available right so you know those are really good strides that they're making for their consumer base now john this is i mean emily mentions a consumer base and i know that you know nissan's come up with a new pathfinder too what's going on with with nissan um look they have a lot of products that have been coming out but they're also expanding in like you said nissan sentra small sedan nissan ultima mid-size sedan you know very very good products really great redesigns recently now we have pathfinder coming out the three-row suv you know you know what one of the big things that for people to look for look at though is you know maybe not jump on the new frontier the you know the minute it comes out because if a manufacturer is churning out a product moving to something new churning out a product moving to something new what happens here's two three or four does the focus get lost so look at how some of the redesigns work out look at the second and third year reliability on those products and then say okay i'm going to be willing to take you know a leap on the second or third year frontier but if those altimas and centers fall off the uh you know fall off the cliff so to speak with a reliability in their second and third years yeah don't run out that first year um uh frontier either so from a brand on the mend uh to a brand that is all new um we we got a we bought a car uh which which we do pretty often which usually isn't that momentous an occasion but this time it was a little different because the car we bought was a 2021 pole star 2. uh the pull start it's a 62 000 about what we paid for it uh electric car dual electric motors 406 horsepower all-wheel drive seating for five kind of a hatchback sort of design and a range of about 233 miles uh john what the what is a pole star now i i'm a i'm a guy who's i mean you can see the 240 speedometer in the background i know what pole star is but also this isn't the pole star that i know well so pole star is is the north star um okay can we bring it bring it down to earth bring it down bring us down earth okay so pole star historically it came from a a racing team um that then was working uh you know building performance versions of volvos and then volvo bought the racing team brought it in house then they uh were part of volvo and then when gili which is a chinese automaker bought volvo back in i believe 2010 um it uh they came along uh you know they're part of the ride um and now pole star has been changed to be performance evs so it would be like if amg were mercedes electric division exactly okay well um now volvo itself is also going to be making evs so i'm not i'm not quite sure uh what's going on here and also the car itself they're not sold through volvo dealers even though they kind of are we got ours from like a pop-up shop in manhattan yeah it got delivered to us and uh emily you actually used this car as like a daily driver uh for for a little while what what did what did you think of it yeah so i was pretty frustrated um really early on in my experience i i haven't driven a lot of the evs and so some of it is maybe just like the steep learning curve that i feel like is there so i got into the car and i was like darn it how do i even turn it on and so turning it on was a feat and then i wanted to turn it off and stepped out of the car to ask someone and the card magically turned itself off so i was like never mind i no longer have that question um and then we're millennials and we we don't like the fact that cars don't have on off buttons okay this isn't just old curmudgeons who are upset about this well see you're kind of an old curmudgeon at heart though so i'm not sure if both of us are the best to determine whether or not all millennials will like this but um my main struggles really came with the fact that i had michael with me and i needed to be able to install his car seat and in case you haven't met me before this is part of what i do for my job um but that being said every vehicle is different every manufacturer has different instructions for various things and um it was difficult for me even to be able to install my car seat easily you know i couldn't route his top tether for a forward-facing car seat and well you know that is not a requirement it is best practice and i knowing that knowing the safety benefit that it provides i was really frustrated that i tried to install this car seat in the outboard seat and i could not because i couldn't route that tether through i also had to climb into the hatch to be able to get the cargo cover off and to attach the top tether which any day that i literally have to climb into the vehicle is not a great day for me especially when i'm in a rush and i was that day so before we even got going it wasn't a great experience um that being said you know driving wise i didn't love the one pedal setting i thought it was really aggressive that those regen brakes um once i switched it to low it was better but i liked it best honestly when i was on the highway and i had cruise control on because i felt like the car was finally doing its own thing the way that it's supposed to maybe designed to do so without my input um so it was better that way it seems like it's sort of the worst the worst possible combination of um an all-new car brand that doesn't quite have its footing and the things that we don't like about volvo as opposed to the many many many things that we do like about volvo and i i you know the the controls basically they were they kind of so the car is powered 100 by android uh which means that you have to download there's no car play uh app yet there's going to be we were told um but that means that you have to download your your own you have to log into your google account or if you don't have one you have to create one and download versions of spotify maps things like that you can't download uh waze to the car because it only uses google maps and it'll you know that's that's because it'll ostensibly because it'll tell you how much range you have when you put in uh for a particular destination the problem was is that some of those were overly optimistic and that's something we heard over and over and over again is that the range estimates were overly optimistic here's only a 233 mile range on a car that's 62 000 i mean you're you're looking at competitors out there like the maki you're looking at competitors from tesla you're looking at new ones coming from nissan and with so many other drawbacks and i haven't even gotten into the seating position that you feel like you're you know driving in a tank and did your rails all the way up because i had to raise it all the way as far as i could possibly go and then seeing over your shoulder the in the back view the rear three quarter view was more like a rear you know one-eighths view like you're looking through a little like one of those toy viewfinders yeah it's it seems to be a vehicle that is is aspiring but they're five years ahead of where the industry is going or is right now you know it's everything's going to be through the screen and we're going to have the advanced controls and but the fundamentals are lost on it part of it's really advanced and part of it the range for example you know look 140 mile range is what some of the people you know some of our testers saw in real life use you know and that means turning off the heat and using just the seat heaters you know so that they can eat their way back to you know to get you know the car home or get to a charger or drop it off at the test track so it you know there's a lot it's a it's a first product and right now there's a lot of products coming out that seem much more fully baked for 20 or 30 thousand dollars less right right like the mustang ford mustang maki you mentioned you know like the nero like the you know yeah the kia niro the hyundai uh you know hyundai kona ev um you know look you could buy the jaguar i-pace and and it you know it does fairly well so tough tough start for the pole star too uh just getting its break in miles yeah so if you want to read more about it i mean we go into a lot more detail uh it's over at consumerreports.org we have had a lot of people spend a lot of time in this car and uh it's an interesting one uh so before we move on and move on we will uh we just wanted to take a moment to let you know about the talking cars donation program if you're not aware cr we're a non-profit that means that the work that we do is funded by memberships as well as donations so if you're able to give it really does help us keep doing this work that we do it helps keep us talking cars so you can find more information at cr.org give talking cars that's cr.org give talking cars and now on to some of that work that we do is answering your questions our first question is from wesley who writes from malaysia wesley says would cr recommend a purchase of a new lexus gs350 now that the vehicle is being discontinued i figure i might be able to find some good deals is it a mistake to invest in a car that won't be produced anymore now john there's there's a difference between like buying a lexus that's being discontinued and buying like uh like a 2011 saab 95 right yes i mean one's a classic one's a classic and and then one's the lexus so right key no but seriously look the lexus gs is being discontinued because it's not a platform that that lexus wants to invest in toyota wants to invest in uh you know big sedans not as popular these days suvs are where it's at you see chevrolet dropped the impala for example you see you know other manufacturers dropping uh you know smaller sedans big sedans you know not a surprise lexus you know made a really nice gs 350 when they last redesigned it and they kind of just it's it's been there i would have no problem buying this car i would have no problem saying buy a 10 year old lexus gs right now and keep it for another 10 years i don't know the parts supply uh you know situation in malaysia you know i don't know the volume of sales i can't speak to that but i would say to anybody if you like the car go ahead and get it you're not gonna have engine problems you're not gonna have transmission problems yes the electronics and some of the infotainment stuff maybe come out dated but i would say it's gonna be a solid car i would certainly buy it i would recommend buying it they're very reliable i would have no qualms about that and they're a blast to drive so enjoy it too um prashant from boston says i drive a lease 2018 honda crv with around 15 000 miles the lease ends in a few months the dealers reached out to me saying that he would like to repurchase it from me and is willing to offer up to 120 of the blue book value and will also give us a special price if we buy another honda from him is this a common practice does he know something i don't know um emily you've you've got some of these in the mail too right yeah we actually just got one this week my husband has um a 2015 a3 that we had bought used and he literally just got a letter uh two days ago offering it's the same percentage prashanth maybe maybe all the dealerships use the same number but 20 above the value um and you know we we own our car you know we bought it we're not leasing but you know what is the advice do they know something that we don't know about they do know something we don't know they know how much this car they know how much they they actually they know how much they need used cars in the lot because right now due to covid and a bunch of other factors used cars are in demand but what's especially in demand is a used car with very low miles and a 2018 crv is a very desirable car 15 000 miles aren't a lot so there's a chance that this dealership is going to be able to sell this car for a lot of money and that they need that car now because someone is asking for a crv with around 15 000 miles now there are words in in these offers that are like up to and that was these sort of weasel words you know yeah we can offer you up to 120 of the book value that you know it's five percent is up to 120 but the good news is that when you bought this car well sorry when you leased this car you signed a contract and in that contract there's something called um the buy-back number and it's based on the residual and what that means is basically um what this what honda assumed that uh 2018 crv would be worth three years down the road back in 2018 nobody knew anything about covid or anything that was going on now but they thought this car might be worth x amount of dollars chances are they probably underestimated because nobody expected to use car market to be this hot so go and look and see if that buyout number uh sorry that buyback number and you can call honda and ask and they'll give you what that number is if that number is less than what these cars are selling for uh at the local honda dealership or also less than what a trade-in uh offer is from a place like carmax or carvanha or one of those places where you can sell your used car to them um there's a chance that you could actually make money off your lease especially with a low mileage car um and that's that's that's kind of a that's that's some advice to take a look at but when it comes to whether this um this is called a pullback offer where they're trying to pull you in uh it's because the dealer needs a new car customer that's you and they need a used car customer and that's the person who's going to uh buy your crv when it's turned in so i i i'd handle it like like a separate transaction if you don't need a new car don't worry about it but you know john what would you do in this situation i would certainly do that research i would make sure that any of the costs associated with registering the car in your name um you know if you take ownership of it so whether you're getting a loan or you're going to pay money straight out to buy it uh you know basically a cash deal you know what that's going to cost you registering it taxes if you have to register it and you know re when you register in your name if there's a sales tax component for the state of massachusetts so doing all that research you don't want to get in there and all of a sudden find out you're making fifty dollars and you know overall just because of of the different costs of course if you then trade something in on trade it in and get an elevated cost often you could then lower the sales tax you pay on the new car um because they take that out of the price so there are there's advantages to doing it certainly don't just run in there you know puppy dog eyes uh thinking like oh the dealer wants me and they're my friend you know that they're they're reaching out to you for a reason and that's to make money not to you know get a 10 on a survey yeah but you can't there is a chance that you could get a you could get a good deal on your next car off off of this so uh rajesh from san francisco asks i am looking to get a fun to drive automatic transmission car that can accommodate my family of four which currently includes two child seats our budget is up to forty thousand dollars uh emily so as somebody told me enjoyable is relative um the way that i chose to think about enjoyable for this particular question is um think about how much you'll enjoy safely being in the car as a family and all the adventures you'll get to take so rajesh i because of the fact that you said that you have two child seats you know i'm thinking more from the perspective of you i don't know how old your kids are and i don't know which seats they're in currently nor do i know if you plan to expand the number of child seats that you may or may not be having um but thinking about like you know if this is a vehicle that you're going to be in for a while and your children are going to grow in it then you're going to need to have something that meets more than just your current you know circumstance right so their car seats are going to change um they are going to grow they might move out of their car seats etc so in terms of you know trying to make sure that you really get the most bang for your buck in terms of the vehicle that i thought of is the nissan rogue the new nissan rogue which we currently have in test our test car cost thirty three thousand two hundred and thirty dollars and that was the sv trim with the premium package um and still going through the paces with us and you know it doesn't have the ihs crash test um scores up yet so definitely wait for those before you make your complete decision but the reason that i chose this is because you know looking at the rear seat i can see that there are dedicated lower anchors for every seating position which if you were to get the rogue sport um it's not there in the center seat so just something to be aware of there are differences between the rogue and the rogue sport and the contours the geometry of the seat make it so that you know it will be easy to install a car seat whether you're using the lower anchors or if you have to use the seat belt which eventually you will as much as you i'm sure love your lower anchors right now there is a limit on them and you will have to switch to a seat belt installation so knowing whether or not you can get a secure fit matters but also thinking forward to as your children grow you know there's a lot of rear seat safety technology in that vehicle that you won't necessarily get at the same price point in other brands so things like um there's that rear door alert this is going to be something that reminds you or whoever is driving to check the back seat at the end of a trip you have to enable the function but it is well worth it it's worth the peace of mind um there's rear belt binders as your children get older they're going to be booster age kids or if you have any of the rear passengers it will let you know if they unbuckle during a trip there is actually um side airbags side torso airbags for the rear outboard passengers as well as advanced seat belt technology for the rear outboard passengers like pre-tensioners and load limiters so activate during your crash and you know better protect your your precious cargo in the back seat um so all those things combined would make it a vehicle that i would consider for my own family because if i'm thinking to the future and you know we have two kids we like to go on trips with them we like to like especially during cove there's a lot you can do so going on drives is probably like the funnest thing we're doing right now but um yeah and you know in our culture everyone who's older than you is an auntie and uncle so emily auntie is looking out for the kids and trying to make sure they're gonna have a good time in that car great advice i'm not even gonna give my i'm not even gonna give mine i'm just gonna i'm just gonna move on to the next question because what can i what can i offer here what can i offer uh andy from portland oregon asks uh i live in a one car household but i've been considering a second car for running errands around town i enjoy small cars and want something unique so i'm considering a japanese k car they appear to be inexpensive and are definitely interesting but since u.s law doesn't let you import a car until it's at least 25 years old i might be sacrificing some safety and parts availability is this a good idea for a cheap ancillary vehicle um so just in case you don't know a k car we're not talking about a a dodge aries or a plymouth reliant here uh this is uh this is kei and it has to do with the tax classification for vehicles in japan where basically the japanese government was trying to trying to encourage people to drive small fuel-efficient cars that would fit in uh very densely populated areas so these are cars that have to fit a particular dimension and they also have to have a small engine and as is the case often when artists and designers are given constraints they come up with some really fascinating stuff uh and some of these cars uh like the auto zam az-1 has going doors uh the honda beat uh there were cars that uh i mean they're they're vans they're they're just unbelievable variety of vehicles for everyone um the only issue is that as andy says uh these are small cars uh they're not meant for highway driving they're not meant for sharing roads with f-350s uh let alone tractor trailers uh and there are some safety concerns to me i mean we were talking about this before the show and emily you were sort of kind of down on the idea right well when i looked up the pictures because i'm not familiar with this particular type of car they kind of reminded me of smart cars and my concern there is you know that a smart car even against another sedan is still a tiny vehicle and so it's not going to fare well um in general you know if if you're not going to be able to get a vehicle that is at par with the safety standards for the us um and you know that is that par with the safety technology that's currently available you know i i would be hesitant even just for myself to drive around town but i know that the two of you have more experience with these types of vehicles and you know driving classics and so you know i i imagine your perspective is different well i just i just recently brought a uh uh one of the uh one of the last 1988 renault medallions into my own personal fleet and john i know you just you just took on a classic of your own i i took on a 1988 porsche 944 turbo s um it is it's just incredible i mean you know and go into it what emily's saying and we'll get back to andy's question just in that the car is so small compared to a car of today you know just like if you you know and i've seen pictures of the new porsche 911 the current 2021 you know against a classic one you know and it's like you could fit two inside the footprint of one so to the andy's point yeah um his question is say he'll be sacrificing some safety there's potential for a lot of safety and that's that's kind of that would be a concern of mine of course zipping around town a little little thing you know people drive forward festivas and and and fiestas and motorcycles you know motorcycles right you know e-bikes so you know some of it is just going to be being very aware um i i would be worried about the parts thing but keith i know you talked about the the scene and the availability too it's really good that you're in the pacific northwest because canada has a different rule on importing cars uh it's not the 25 year rule for them it's 15 years and as a result there's a huge scene uh especially because it's kind of cheap to import things from asia into the west coast uh in british columbia there's a there's a real huge scene for k cars for jdm for you know skylines for all that sort of stuff and as a result you're close to a sort of treasure trove of parts um i don't know if a k car is the best idea but maybe look into you know something if you're looking into a classic um if you have the opportunity you could you could at least try driving one and again you know before you pay uh two thousand dollars to ship something over from japan um see if you can find the sort of the local community and and and see if you can drive one and just see what it feels like so whether it is 25 year old japanese uh classics uh or whether it is uh sensible cars for the family uh send your questions to talking cars at icloud.com uh and head over to cr.org to learn more about a pole star learn more about nissan strategies learn more about backseat safety and child car seats thanks for talking cars with us talk again soon\n"