Apple TV Plus: The Latest Development and Deal Hunting Tips

As I'm sure many of our listeners have noticed, I've been spending almost every other day browsing through the Apple TV Plus app. My reason for doing so? I'm always on the lookout for new deals and discounts. Just the other day, I managed to snag a great bargain - "Look Who's Talking Now" in 4K was only $5! For those who may not be familiar with this film, it's an 80s classic about a baby voiced by Bruce Willis, narrating his experiences as a newborn. It's hilarious and a nostalgic trip back to the 80s.

But I digress. When it comes to deals, I'm always on the hunt for something that will catch my eye. And speaking of catching eyes, have you noticed that Apple has started licensing movies from other sources into their streaming platform again? Specifically, they're partnering with studios to bring a selection of movies based on roles played by current Apple TV Plus stars. This is a great way for users to enjoy more content without having to leave the app.

What's even more exciting is that this partnership seems to be a permanent fixture in the Apple TV Plus lineup. I recently came across a section labeled "Currently Available: Bonus Movies or Events" on my screen, and it featured at least 20 movies based on roles played by current Apple TV Plus stars. This tells me that Apple plans to continue bringing new titles into their platform going forward.

This shift in strategy is reminiscent of Apple's earlier attempts to license content from other sources. A couple of years ago, they briefly brought in movies from other studios before seemingly pulling them back due to... who knows what? But it seems like this time around, the plan is to stick with it. And I have to say, it's a great move.

One thing that's worth noting is the impact this could have on users like us who are used to finding content on streaming platforms. With Apple TV Plus now featuring movies based on roles played by current stars, we may find ourselves watching more shows and series rather than just browsing through individual titles. It's almost like having a homework assignment - watch everything that's available, and then come back next week with some insights!

For those who are interested in finding me online (or at least, tracking my every move), I'm usually lurking on Macedon. That's right, folks - Macedon is where you can find me spending most of my time these days. But don't worry if you can't find me there; you can also try checking out my Twitter account... although I must admit that I don't spend as much time browsing through tweets as I used to.

Speaking of which, my email address remains the same - it's right at the top of any article that I write. Feel free to send me a message, whether it's to complain about my podcast skills or share an interesting story you've come across. And if you're feeling adventurous, be sure to check out some of my other articles on Apple Vision Pro.

But before we go, let's take a moment to mention our sponsor - Notion. It's an incredibly useful app that I'm just starting to dig into more deeply. Stay tuned for some insights on how I plan to use it in the coming weeks and months.

And finally, I'd like to say goodbye to our listeners until next week. Until then, happy streaming (or whatever your favorite activity may be)!

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhello welcome to the Apple Insider podcast I'm William Gallagher as sponsor this week is notion more about that later on also later on if you are a premium subscriber it's week two of our brand new Apple Insider plus feature in which this time as of we're going to step away from the news step away from everything that's really going on and focus on things that matter to us all all the time in this case Wes hilard and I are going to have a writing app kind of SmackDown we all write on our Macs and our iPads but only I'm getting it right that's basically how it's going to run I think uh Ward you're not going to try to argue against that later at all are you oh no no of course not I I I uh give way to you on anything writing uh right yes in that case this week's app Insider plus is a very short thing but I am victorious so much to get to before we have that um where I don't think anybody new is suing Apple today so is there anything else going on in the Apple World well I think we finally got an announcement maybe not the one we were looking for I was expecting WWDC but it seems Apple has announced something called vvv DC what's going on here yeah I got a admit I'm very very confused by this I am wondering whether Apple used AI to design its WWDC logo that would explain a lot wouldn't it I'm not the first person to think of it okay right some people some people have called it uh Volkswagen DC cuz that that's another interpretation okay I get it now yes it's it's definitely a a a direction I'm not sure if it's the right one because of course instead of talking about the upcoming um developer conference we are now talking about the silly logo uh and I'm not entirely sure that that was the intent of the logo but I I don't know maybe Vision it's it's all it's going to be all Vision uh but of course we we don't we know that's not true it's going to all be all about AI right so it's just when you say that about a direction it's it's a new direction is the kind of phrase you you hear in projects uh like well it's an interesting departure for something and it's never a complimentary thing but listen every year every year there's a new logo and this doesn't happen to be my favorite but every one of them gets every pixel examined I mean I saw somebody saying ah but the colors the panone colors match those of the Siri icon so clearly it's about Siri and yeah it could be my favorite do you have a favorite my favorite was the neon uh with the uh exploding emoji heads that was I thought that was really clever oh I'm not a massive Emoji fan so of course no I just thought the design was fun yeah no Joe isn't that terrible you you're listening to me think back through all of these things I we should have a poll who did it best how long has WWDC been going quite a while isn't it so I the one where they announced the iPhone nope that wasn't a WWDC was it I think I'm going off on one here pull me back the key thing is we now know when it is and of course Jun we also know what's going to happen we know everything that's going to be said don't don't we we have a good assumption anyway one thing that's interested me is I I know there's a consistent thing that we're going to hear about Ai and that doesn't seem like it could possibly be wrong but just in the last couple of weeks there's been like this slight change that it won't be that AI will somehow be part of iOS 18 that maybe there'll be an AI app store or that there'll be just kind of something else and I don't really know where all that's come from are are there strong rumors about this sort of stuff well there is definitely a lot going on in this space uh we talked about it last week that there might be a new strategy where Apple would license Google Gemini oh yeah and have its own minor like smaller uh language models and AI tools inside of iOS and Bridge out to Gemini and other llms when needed so Apple wouldn't actually have its own llm more evidence of that has actually popped up in the last week but also there's some suggestions that maybe as a part of this or an an extension or alternative to this is Apple would have a uh llm app store or AI app store which I think makes a lot of sense because then people choose what they do and don't want so nothing's imposed on them I suppose that which is a big thing about AI do you trust it if it's just slapped in your face if you have no control over it would make sense too uh I the evidence I was hearing about that suppored this was that Apple was purportedly in a deal with um I don't know how to pronounce it B AI do B uh which has since been denied but in such a way that you're thinking yeah that's just happening there the ink hasn't dried yet that's all but I don't know whether that's indicative of Apple reaching out to many different partners like they are with Google or just that b is a Chinese company and there are regulatory issues there about partnering with people like that is it I'm sure apple is in talks with a lot of companies and maybe we're only hearing about um a few of those potential Partnerships but uh we have to keep in mind while it's not really thought of this way not in today's language but every app on the app store is a partnership with apple in some way you have to sign a contract and upload an app so bringing apps to a new app store that are AI specific would require a new contract so to speak so of course there's negotiations of course there's discussions as to how does this work uh how much are we going to charge how much commission are we going to take if this is an entirely New Concept I'm sure there's an entirely new business model and again it would be separate from the current App Store where apps are experiences you download like apps games tools and the AI app store would be a little bit more specific so if I had to assume this is how it works of course don't take my word for it but this is a guess uh if if you've been paying attention to the AI space there are these different versions of tools uh developers can build basically different specific Renditions that do very specific things I forget what they're called I think there some of them are very stupid GPT chat GPT calls them gpts that's it's a silly name didn't know that's okay yes but it's basically a branch of the larger language model that lets you do very specific tool sets so let's say you need to very specifically expand images by if you have a 4x3 image and you want to add some artificially filled in background well you could go download an AI that does only that that's been programmed to silliness to do that or if you need a writing Tool uh like grammarly you could literally go and download just grammarly's AI tool and have it appear across your system and I think there's going to be um systemwide functionality with these tools rather than it being contained to a sing single app and that's why it would need its own app store because it would have API calls that went across the system it it would just be very different from the conception of what an app is so future dramas where the police lean in to the monitorin of grainy image and the hero says enhance it they'll go yes but I first have to go to the app store and find the right talk yes I could see that that would work that would actually be less distracting from it my mind just come back contracts something surprised me recently about contracts is kind of related I mean not very work with me on this um yes with a brand new business model of course it's going to be all brand new but we recently had that thing where transcriptions appeared in iOS 17 and the latest version of Mac OS the for the podcasts app and every podcast producer had to sign a new contract say or at least a bit of a new contract saying yes that kind of thing feels like that should have been there from the start or the if not the word transcription at least some catchall term that covers every possible exploitation of the material should have been there and and it wasn't so is Apple just you know not as good at contracts as it used to be or is it so busy doing so many of them that it doesn't have time to develop anything new you can get suit in America for everything so I think Apple's just covering its basis by having specific language updating its contracts being too broad is actually an issue in law and yes you don't you don't want Apple to be too broad because again it just leads to lawsuits and then you have to go to court and explain your interpretation as the law but it because it's so broad someone else has a different interpretation and then it's up to a jury to decide which interpretation is correct and again you you don't want that situation to arise yeah but you know lawyers have got to eat haven't they we need to keep them in business those poor guys you know they they're struggling out there multi-billion dollar doj lawsuit keeping them you know barely Soup cans on the street I I expect if they have a roof over their heads they can't sleep in it for worry and i' just been reading scripts to The Alig Mobile TV series if you even remember that and it's all very lawyer Centric because the show was so I'm on the side of the lawyers in this one forget Shakespeare bring back the lawyers that we need them this is going so far away from what we're going to get at WWDC and actually something I'm really interested in the customizability of iPhone pH screens I don't know what I'd customize do you do you know what's being said about this so again in the broadest terms we're not really getting much information here but it seems apple is going to open up more customization options for the home screen which means uh more free placement of app icons and widgets uh someone actually pointed something out the other day in iOS 14 when widgets were first announced one of the demos Apple previewed that never actually released was the ability to actively resize widgets while in the wiggle View and have widgets change based on the size that you pick for that area instead you have to go into the widget picker and pick the specific size you want that that interaction never actually came to be um also many widgets are just unused different interaction types were never brought about we only just got intera interactive widgets that can show more live updates but again still not qu quote unquote live because uh it has to basically do a push to the app to get new information rather than the app pushing to the widget so it's kind of upside down the information can be out of date clock widgets can be wrong because of how they're being refreshed uh the clock would just be the wrong time it's very odd so there's a lot of stuff that can be improved there underneath but on top of things from the user perspective we're expecting to see like I said free free placement of objects so right now if you put an app on your home screen and you get a grid of four by I don't know eight icons I think it's 32 and if you do that it has to go in order 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 filling in those rows you can't have any blank spaces unless you install like a fake widget thing there's there's ways to trick the system but again they're tricks so you would actually be able ble to do this using iOS free placement different grid types have widgets anywhere and the doc would potentially get a new launcher like app Library button that would launch the app Library so okay I mean does any of that sound useful to you William not you know rushing to it um I think when you see it in action and you know Apple will show it off in some cever way after that I'll be going yeah yeah I'm having that but then I think I said that about widgets are you more interested than I am well I usually get blowback for this but I still believe it's true um since iOS 14 and every iteration since so it's just increasingly so Apple has crossed the customization Paradigm of Android so previously it would it was argued that apple with its Simplicity it's basically just grid of icons was not very good it wasn't very customizable and all you could really do is add a wallpaper and organize things alphabetically or you know put them in a certain order put them in folders it was very limited then they added widgets then they added uh interactive widgets and uh shortcuts and focus groups and all these things that allow you to basically change how your iPhone looks based on whatever Paradigm you're in work personal school and have everything change including your wallpapers and design you could go from uh you know a gaming mode with with a silly anime wallpaper and gaming stats on your lock screen too when you walk out the door to go to work it shifts over to a very business classy neutral tone uh and different apps and widgets for your work and all at the push of a button with Focus modes so very personalized very custom in the last couple of years so my argument is that Apple has actually become more customizable in a more useful way than Android ever has been and I know I can hear the people screaming right now yes you can't install those uh janky launchers that allow you to ride roller coasters when you ride an when you open an app or um basically get uh motion sickness every time you change which app page you're on because you're on a carousel I get it you enjoy your GPU uh driven interfaces but that's not what I'm talking about when I talk about personalization I mean truly making the device work for you in a way that no one else can and Android cannot touch Apple's implementation here I think I like Apple's implementation except I'm just looking at my phone now and I've realized I have one widget I have that um smart stack widget on my second page and I don't really even look at that I kind you gr up icons on your first page yes and on well I only have well three pages at the moment but yeah have i at some point William I would recommend you don't have to but I would recommend get rid of all of your app icons start from a blank page just add a couple of widgets add the Siri recommend recommendation widget which uh is eight icons that let that just changes based on time of day and see if you can live with that for a while have everything in the app Library search for an app if you need it in Spotlight and honestly any app you need in the moment will most likely appear in that Siri uh widget that that recommends different apps throughout the day if that doesn't work for you fine but the everyone I've shown this to and set have this set up a single page with a few widget stacks and that rotating app view usually the best fit for a lot of people especially more casual users that maybe don't live on their phone Someone Like You William that you know is more just LIF picking up the phone to do a certain task at that moment the little app rotating guy I keep saying it Siri I don't mean to but the uh widget for that is actually so intelligent so useful that you'll never think about it again you just open your phone and say oh there's the app I need click it and there you go not not convinced I I'll have you know my home screen is finally honed over many many years your finger knows exactly where to go of course yeah it does actually I dropped something Rec I forgotten what it was it wasn't using it anymore um and I think when I first replaced it everything was slightly out of kilter so yes I would be tapping the wrong thing with that looking it feel like a personal attack you can't yeah you open your phone it's no longer yours yes Yes actually when I pick up somebody else's phone to do something for them I'm thinking it's all wrong they've got all the wrong apps all in the wrong place but also when they Apple first brought out that app Library I thought it was so impressive and during the beta testing period for it I would swiped to that and yeah anything I wanted was right there but I haven't seen that happen since we came out of beta I mean I've just looked at it now and I mean there's a compass app is showing up I haven't used that compass in ages and I don't even know what that next one is what's that next one widget redo right I haven't been in that in a year so where is that widget located right now well I just mean I go went into the app Library uh the back I have while you were talking I loaded well I thought I did I loaded a series suggestions oh I appear to be going into my bank now what are you doing stop it okay it actually has to be there for it to learn it it doesn't learn from the widget selector screen right but the app Library should cuz actually I go into that quite a lot I don't know why that's the odd thing app Library I I've heard from other people and it's same for me it learns what you need it's it's the series suggestion uh widget but uh across the entire app Library everything that should be presented at the top should be what you need when you're looking for it usually but I've noticed that the categories jump around so I'll go to click on something and it's one spot higher than before and it it it confuses me I two two wish list items I think for iOS 18 for me would be able to fully customize the app Library create a category put apps in that category organize the apps inside of that category delete categories you don't need that would be amazing I would do that all day perfect for me uh rather and sure having the automatic system is great Apple trying to take the control out of it is fine but I think it's a little too aggressive if it could find a way to land at a point and stay there I would be okay with it but it it shifts around to much and my other wish list item would be just more systemwide extensions I know this has nothing with the home screen but I this goes along with the AI App Store so I hope this may be as a thing but I want more apps that are just basic utilities rather than downloading an app that's just for um text for creating txt files which is an app I have on my iPad get into that later um instead of just having an app that creates. txt files that I can share have that just be an extension inside of a different writing app or uh an extension of the files app right rather than having to launch an entirely different window but that's what I want anything you want from IOS 18 or Mac OS 15 this year Well normally I think no and it's a failure of imagination on my part but I would like my photos icon to not keep moving around on my iPad when I go into the app Library uh for it um that's a small thing I actually every year I think when I eventually figured out that I remember that I need this I would like apple mail to add more kind of swipe tool options like things like spark mail have I get so many emails that I need to put into my to-do app on focus it would be I mean I have ways to do it now it's all very quick but it' be nice just be able to go swipe or Tap a button and share properly into these things more actions in mail but you know otherwise I like mail I'm all right with that I just so I'm saying this to you and my mind is on that txt thing surely when you're in Pages or something you can export well I've exported to word and PDF and RTF isn't text in now I think I think I've opened pages one time in my entire life but oh well I'm I'm definitely going to win on the Apple inside of plus writing Jews Smackdown clearly okay what's wrong with pages that might be nothing wrong with it I have different tools okay um I write in drafts I think you do sometimes as well don't you uh the way I see p just for the audience that isn't paying the way I see pages is I'm writing a book report for school or I'm writing a book or you know I this is a dedicated location where I'm literally creating pages of a document now I have I I lied I have used pages to create documentation for our jobs sometimes we need to explain how we do something in case we're out six so someone else can go and do it and I find that uh putting text in one side and an image here here and arrows and stuff it's useful for creating those kinds of PDF export type deals but again pages is a document creator I am building something that's probably that could be printed or something like that that's the way I see Pages whereas my text editing is not like that I am a web Creator so everything I do is for the web and pages is not for that no I'd agree with that I think a definition of a word processor these days is a writing app that was developed while we still all had PR um but I do actually really like pages I think for a writer it's very good but Apple's work Suite is so underrated people really sleep like people buy I know people who still buy Macs and iPads today and they're like can I install Microsoft Word I'm like just don't don't bother it costs too much money and it doesn't do enough on iOS get just use Apple's free pre-installed apps but anyway we've strange thing is I've I have a long history of disliking Microsoft Word I mean there's very good stuff in it as well but also ludicrously bad stuff to bus the design is awful oh terribly so but with Exel for some reason I'm more of a fan of Xcel and yet maybe two years ago now I swapped over completely to numbers I was always using it for something but every spreadsheet in my business now is on numbers and I can automate it I can do so much in it I I really like numbers the world should switch to numbers well possibly possibly not but anyway okay so spreadsheets going away from text F and going further and further away from WWDC uh let me cover this I have already heard the rumor that there will be Hardware at WWDC we hear this every year I think I said this last time without fail oh yes this next thing is coming the Mac Pro or whatever and then it doesn't and then the same people say well of course it wasn't going to WWDC is a software thing but already it's started is there any chance Hardware this year do you think it's actually kind of going the opposite direction it is a software event but Apple has been good about making it focus on Pro Hardware because this is a developer event so they want to talk about developer Hardware so I would expect the M3 Ultra Mac Studio with M3 Ultra and maybe the Mac Pro update but again that's $7,000 computer getting updated on an annual basis just feels wrong to me but we'll we'll see what Apple does here well to be fair the previous year's version was 50,000 so yeah oh if they kept putting it down at that um what's the opposite of a geometric progression is it logarithmic if they could keep going down at that Trend down that amount to yes okay wait till next year they'll be giving them to us this yeah yes I've still got an on Mac Pro under my desk although actually after your advice last week I can now sit down at this desk I have begun moving things so oh beautiful the Mac Pro may be the next thing to go this episode is brought to you by notion now notion it's an app that I think really you need to try try it out for yourself because I can tell you that notion gives you this one space actually this rather gorgeously designed space where you can write notes and put documents into I can tell you that and you get it you understand the concept easily enough but I don't think you actually feel it you don't feel why this is so good until first you give notion a try and then suddenly you realize hang on I'm really into this now it's notion has become has somehow become the one tool you use for everything notion is that expansive it's that capable you can do all of your work inside it and do so without making compromises and and certainly without having to fiddle with features to kind of make it work for you it just does although your work in notion is going to look completely different to mine because well yeah this is a one tool for everyone it's far so far away from being a one size fits all kind of app in small and large ways you can customize notion to suit yourself and the thing is this isn't just a theoretical feature you will customize it's just so easy to adapt Notions tools for your needs that you'll do it as you go change this add that explore something new in notion you'll use it and it will be brilliant for you and those tools by the way do include AI now all right it's not as if there's a worldwide shortage of AI tools but in every case that I know of to use an AI tool in your work well you have to kind of leave your work go to the AI app go to that separate AI tool do what you need to do and then come back not here not with ocean AI CU in notion the tools the AI tools for simplifying your work they're just right there part of it as you work away in notion you can ask it to search your project for something you have remember or or you can set up automation so that you concentrate on the work you need to do the work you want to do while notion gets on with the organizing chores that you used to have to do try notion for free when you go to notion.com slapple Insider that's all lowercase letters by the way notion.com apppp Insider all lowercase to try the power for easy to use notion AI today and when you use our link you're supporting our show notion.com apppp Insider or lowercase thank you very much to notion for its support of the Apple Insider podcast um but Hardware normally when I mean Hardware I'm obviously thinking Max because I think of Max first we are still waiting for iPads and I don't know why I think I'm taking it personally well I think I know why and I I I I this is completely conjecture and again people rejected it but I still think there's some there's some value in it Apple Vision Pro launched on February 2nd it's a $3,500 face computer and honestly I would argue that the primary business it is aimed at is existing pro suumer pro iPad users the guys who already lived on the iPad and could get work done on it and use it as a serious computer is one of the primary selling points for Apple Vision Pro it's not the only selling point it's an amazing entertainment computer but I was able to move my entire workload to Apple Vision Pro without even trying so I would have to assume I'm not the only one on earth I know I'm a very Niche section and apple uh there's actually a very good uh podcast called under the radar where um gosh the names have escaped me uh but anyway under the radar is at least the name of the podcast and the the developers there discuss some of their trials and tribulations of development and they the latest episode as you listen uh they discussed the sales numbers of their apps and they're very popular apps one of them is overcast the podcast app and the other one is widget Smith and we're talking thousands of installs for these you know very very popular apps that you know generally see millions of maybe not for overcast but again just very low numbers compared comped to what they see on other platforms to the point that just to move on from this but to the point that I think uh the widget Smith Creator David Smith did the calculation of if I literally took how many users use widget Smith on iOS versus how many use it on Vision OS and said okay out of 365 days of the year how many hours days minutes should I spend developing each with as an equal ratio and it was about six minutes for vision OS by comparison like so he could spend about to get his money's worth he' have to spend about 6 minutes developing Vision OS uh for how many users he has on the platform so very nent platform very early on but that's what I'm saying that's the group of people I'm talking about so for Apple to turn around after Vision Pro and release a new iPad Pro with magic keyboard possibly if you deck it out and buy all the new accessories the new Apple pencil you're entering that $3,000 price range very quickly and for a group of people that may have just already spent $3,000 Plus on a Vision Pro headset are they going to be ready to do that again three four months later of course this is all going to get blown out when Apple on Tuesday announces the new iPads it's just the proximity I think was a little too ludicrous when people were saying oh it's coming at the end of February early March April May May sounds more realistic to me just because you need that Breathing Room you need that space to just get the market to where it needs to be for Vision Pro and I think it has gotten to that point they've sold as many as they're going to sell for that initial flood anyway in the United States that's why it's about to go to the other countries very soon uh then get the iPads out in the spring and the people who have the money will buy both the people who are waiting for the iPads will buy the iPads Apple's going to do fine I'm not worried about that it's just I think strategically speaking they couldn't release them we apart it it wouldn't make sense thing is anything I say here feels to me like it's got to be fatuous because you have an apple Vision Pro and I haven't even touched one but I you keep referring to it as like this iPad is tool and I think that might be because it's colored that way you've come from the iPad whereas everything I look at it and every example I see it feels like it's a Mac on your face so is that just cuzz I'm I'm coming from the Mac B are we both bias is the wrong word but leaning way you can put the Mac inside of Vision Pro so and and I think you know Vision OS 2 even not even we don't even have to wait on new hardware I expect a future update to allow multiple Mac monitors or perhaps Mac Windows just open as floating spaces inside of Vision Pro any of those things could happen in the future but right now you can just open a Mac window full well quote unquote 4K it's equivalent to 4K uh as a monitor and you can blow it up big and have a mouse and keyboard and mouse around sitting in Yim on it on your Mac as a 30 foot screen in front of you all well and good but my argument for saying it's not exactly a Mac is because you still need a Mac to do that function it's not doing that without a Mac so yeah so it's a it's an amazing Mac accessory it's a it's a good Mac monitor I would say but that it's no different than using an iPad with sidecar so that's the that's why again I would lean into the iPad Paradigm when describing Vision Pro versus MAC because it isn't running Mac OS it isn't running Mac apps it's running iPad apps it's running Juiced up my iPad apps for vision OS and it's able to connect as a Mac display but it is not a Mac I would say I actually thinking of you on Monday CU I was doing half a day for Apple inside and half for the writer Guild and I was in London away from my home I was uh in a cafe and I had my MacBook Pro with me but I don't know what it was just something about getting out a very very expensive MacBook Pro in this place where I wasn't feeling very safe I got out my iPad Pro instead because it was kind of smaller I could snatch it run away faster um and I ended up I thought I'd just do quick things I've got to do to set up start up Apple Insider work and then move to the mbook pro and I didn't for the entire day I actually spent it on the iPad Pro and I've never done that before with apple Insider I I found the odd you know hiccups for it but I thought it would be slower I thought I'd have image problems like I've done in the past when I've briefly tried it but no it all worked and actually one thing I want to ask you about is I came across an app I didn't realize I'd installed it years ago actually on like three iPads ago I must have installed this an app called yoink a shelf app y i n k uh you use this to let me move images around more easily uh paste is better right so so yink yoink is um actually an excellent app I don't even know if it's still in development it might be go to the app store and see the last time it was updated cuz I believe that's one of those shelf apps that CA that might have came and went um or I might be thinking of a different one uh there's there's a there's three or four out there that are uh pretty good but I my current one is paste and it's a universal clipboard tool but also a shelf so you can create categories and save copy and paste items and view them it it works so so well uh and I I I really enjoy paste but yoink is another really good one if you're on an iPad um and you just need a location for stuff but then again the files app also just kind of you know does that so it really depends on what you're looking for if you're using yoink as an image uh tool then just use use the files app I would say or or photos but if you're using it to save links uh it's a it's a good link saver tool I didn't realize that paste was a shelf I'm not keen on Pace because the Mac version of it uh I love clip managers I seem to have accidentally got three of them but Pace was very visual you know I just want to paste the last sentence and it would show me a big poster image of what they it was only a sentence uh so I use Alfred 5 or sometimes keyboard M and raycast has it for free and all this stuff but I so I hadn't looked any fur further into post I I will reexamine I like uniformity and that and that type of display is still there on the Mac I have it mapped to you know it's by default command shift V and it opens the paste uh board basically and it is giant things you click on if you want to go back in your history I think there's a way to toggle that to make them smaller or lose the icons at least but I personally I like having that universal access across the system again I wish iPad would let me control shift V anywhere and just bring up paste that would be amazing uh and maybe if if this AI App Store thing is a thing we'll see more Universal tools like that across the system different apps are trying different things right now it seems to be uh keyboards everyone's making a quote unquote keyboard but they're not actually keyboards paste has a keyboard that's just its UI inside of it inside of the keyboard um there's sticker Pickers and all kinds of weird things happening with keyboard selectors these days and I think Apple probably sees that and they're like we we need to break this out into a wider system so maybe we'll get lucky with iPad OS 18 and uh better stage manager as well as they continue to improve all of that uh Andre just got a Mac and the sales guy tried to impre we'd already we basically paid for it and he was still trying to S on the benefits of it and one of the benefits he was championing was stage manager and I think he could see me going yeah you don't use it on Mac did you use it on your iPad or you still using I think that's where I first tried it um and I just I don't take to it anywhere um I suppose I just when I was in doing the thing in London I was doing side by split view with like uh twoth thirds of the screen and one at one/ thir on another and that was surprisingly useful normally on an iPad I like one thing at a time and I don't know why CU on a Mac it's like I just before you and I had started talking I think I quit 15 apps that I was running and it's not that I put them on and forget about them I was using them all all day so why I'm Different on an iPad I don't no but they are different tools what are we going to be like though when the next big excuse me the next little thing comes from Apple the smart ring yeah tell me about smart Rings yeah I I'm interested in this as a concept because I want everything to be smart I almost bought the Nike tennis shoes that paired via Bluetooth that could tie themselves because no no no no no wait wait that's from Back to the Future that isn't real that's actually what that's the reason why they were created in 2015 uh because that was the year that they traveled to and Back to the Future Nike created self-tying shoes to celebrate the anniversary you could connect to over Bluetooth you'd slip your foot in press a button on your phone and the shoelaces would tighten around your foot uh they stopped selling it about two years later and discontinued the app so sorry anyone who owns those shoes and can no longer tie them but I'm sure the app still works but it's just funny to me that yes I I am re astounded how interested I am it's I mean I'm an adult man and I still have trouble uh tying my shoelaces I don't know what I get wrong about it but I go slip on shoes quite a lot so this appeals yeah yeah I I I have Adams with stretch laces and I've never tied them I just put my shoes on and go on about my day anyway I'm not a sponsor podcast but I really love Adam shoes but no wearables that are smart I I'm I I am so here for it I I want this the silly future junk that you see in movies I want the t-shirts that can change logos but when you press a button I I I want the pants that have a built-in battery that'll charge your phone who knows how you wash those of course right I just I I want all the silly stuff because I I find it interesting is any of it actually useful who knows but a smart ring I think could be different uh an interaction Paradigm so snapping your fingers pointing different things like that we've seen in these patents uh a different Health metric it could draw if you wore your Apple watch on your left arm and the apple ring on your right arm it could perform more accurate ECGs by doing a uh three-point ECG instead of a two point uh because it could do the return route on the ring and back to the watch as well and yada multi-point ECGs there's a lot of potential here but what what do you think William well the reason I'm interested now is that I read uh a patent about it and at the top of the patent it was all about gestures like you've just said and I thought what these sound like apple Vision Pro gestures then the more you get into it it is specifically skinto skinin contact they say I don't know how it would register the skin but it's definitely not just waving your hands in the air it's thumping your hands together or something and sensors those exist oh okay now thinking about how they get that into a ring I'm Pro ring because I actually wore one for a while a company called um uh wave wave for work uh had they still do a ring that it's quite it's very plasticky a bit rubbery maybe in bits has a couple of buttons that will do certain things and I was using it to present from I would just kind of vaguely gesticulate at the screen and keynote would switch to the next slide and stuff like that and I really liked that because it was by far the least interrupting way of changing slides I mean I tried doing it on my phone and it everybody thought I was just messaging somebody you know and I tend to walk around a lot so I'm away from the keyboard and these things and I don't have Steve Jobs's two clickers or whatever youed go so I thought actually practical things so that's my interest but just for some reason maybe it's this thing of when you're interested in something you hear more about it in the last week I seem to be hearing more people saying definitely coming there's app Apple inside a video about it so you know it must be true it must be happening what else has gone on to tell us this I think the apple ring is uh something that's just I mean patents are everywhere for it but it's one of these things we've been hearing about since like 2016 so it's definitely something they're working on internally but whether or not it'll see the light of day is still in question I could foresee this being an important augmented reality device imagine having the apple ring and walking into a room pointing at a homepod and then tapping your finger and and it start playing because it knows that you pointed at the homepod and you tap and you did the play gesture or pause something on the TV just with your finger or uh control the light by pointing at it you using um like ultrasonic frequencies and stuff like that like maybe we have all uh much smarter homes with these uh different tools that can tell where you are in a space and then the ring communicates with that so more advanced home pods and stuff like that all very possible in the future but you need a way to control it and the Apple watch isn't going to do that cuz it's on your wrist so something more directional more motion sensitive like your finger would be great I just you say that and I'm picturing me striding into a room like with you know this matcho image I've got H and go oi onod you stop playing and that just fit actually hang on wait a minute it's rude to point okay yeah you kind point with the finger guns you know right yeah I don't think I can really carry off either of those looks but all right I just I wonder would the would as smart ring replace the Apple watch I mean no because youve already got the time on your phone uh if you were the kind of person who's desperate for a more uh busy or professional look you could ditch the watch for a couple of hours put on your suit put on your Apple ring and still get your heart rate notifications and track your Fitness and your steps and your stand goals just from your finger instead of your wrist and then that way you can have your very nice watch but uh it would be limited in scope I think compared to the Apple watch I think the pair will definitely be important uh this goes back to the double tap gesture I think if we have an Apple Watch and an apple ring working in tandem more things will be possible with both of them so just it's interesting I just think that we need to get better at with future products looking at them from an augmented reality standpoint from a spatial Computing standpoint because I think that's the primary goal Apple's going to have here not just Health sensors which is a part of it but I think spatial is where apple is right now and where we should be thinking it's funny sometimes I feel like on the other side of a wall from you because I've never even touched an apple Vision Pro and you basically you're in the future that's what it's like okay I I do wonder One Last Thing Before we move on from Apple ring is is anyone going to use it as their wedding band Yes of course they are first first person so CU okay so I I don't know how Universal this is it's pretty pretty Universal but generally speaking you propose and you have an an engagement ring uh that the woman wears and that's usually just a a like a small diamond or something and then when you get married it's actually that part is the very simple band it's usually maybe a gold or platinum band or you know whatever metal you would like and uh and the man and the woman both or whoever partner Partners uh wear the ring would that be would I wonder if the first divorce would occur because someone suggests that they both forever wear an apple ring but I think that's dangerous because then you have to upgrade it every couple years and are you going to upgrade your wedding ring I honey it's I it's I know it's just a symbol but it it has more RAM in the new version we got to we got to get the next apple ring with this ring I USBC charge you no wait a minute how would you charge a smart ring magne too thin well just but it' be on the rim wouldn't it so there wouldn't be a lot of surface area compared to the back or something thing oh that's true okay maybe you just zap it with like put a fork into an outlet and connect it to the ring and it just kind of charges yeah rushing to that okay that's right well I tell you I'm conscious that in many ways we've been talking about the future a lot today WWDC of course but also smart Rings the the potential for yet more spatial Computing but there are times when Apple will bring out something and it just doesn't happen and this on Apple inside we've been looking at one of them homekit secure routs oh not the deliveries app okay not the deliver I'm still mourning that I I wish it would work yes I mean I wrote this piece so I know something about it but actually before I started the piece I knew nothing I had even heard of hom kit secure routs and you had so I don't actually know have you got one of the legendary fabled two or three homekit secure roters that seem to have ever been made yeah this story was my pitch uh Mike handed it off to you uh I think just yes i' done something wrong it just to torture you a little bit punishment uh also he I'm very much a software guy and he's trying to show me the eror of my ways and how much more interesting Hardware is so far he's failed but this was the latest attemp and it was really interesting so thank you but can you explain previously on H kid secure RS well I have a problem so I have velop and I have the Wi-Fi 6 router and I bought so I had the Wi-Fi 5 system back in the day this has been a couple of years and velop came out with a new set of routers and they actually put in the documentation homekit router secure router support coming soon uh there was even I think a homekit Insider episode where we talked to the guys it was it was coming so I was like okay great I'm going to go ahead and buy this router excellent it's going to get it eventually bought it it's you know paired it with my Wi-Fi 5 system so it's kind of a bridge Network at the time nope uh never never happened just they they never perform the update but they did release a new set of Wi-Fi 6 routers that was homekit compatible so I ditched the rest of my Wi-Fi 5 routers I'm now on a two node system uh one from the uh larger more expensive Wi-Fi 6 router that was promised homekit didn't happen and one of the Lesser versions that does have homekit turns out can't do that either can't have a mixed Network must be both homekit router supports so while I do have a router in my home that technically can do it I would need to buy a another router remove the original and have a two noes system with just homekit secure uh networking didn't bother Because by the time I got around to shopping for that system and maybe just upgrading away from lynus maybe looking at a different one I discovered they just didn't EX exist because I I was looking into Wi-Fi 6C maybe even Wi-Fi 7 which is very expensive um and I just found no one was talking about it so I started digging who has Wi-Fi 6 uh routers with homekit and ero literally has a page that says we're not doing this anymore linkis is mum about it they removed their stickers from the pages that offered future homekit only the ones that have it now will ever have it uh then there's the one from ubiquity un just nope nothing nothing nothing no more new homekit routers are coming anywhere I couldn't get anyone to talk William I think had a little more luck as far as finding out more information but to long story short to explain what a homekit secure router is the idea is very simple and it's actually being baked into matter so maybe Apple saw the writing on the wall that they didn't need to do it anymore and just pulled the program but um that makes sense but yeah but but mat matter will be able to do this probably it see it seems seems to be the case but the idea is you have a router that is aware of the devices on your network and you can go into a settings view and say these devices are isolated from the internet they are on an intranet for your home that can communicate with the um Apple TV hubs it can communicate with each other but can never ever ever access the internet meaning that way you can guarantee no one's you know secretly looking through your we your your home security cameras no one's secretly going to gain access to your light switch or something but it is absolutely isolated to your home network and that is what home homekit secure routers promised and can do if you go buy an old router today that is outdated and too expensive what would you find out there on on your research William I started to wonder if it was a joke that if you were just ganging up on me and play like a left-handed screwdriver or something um I did talk with apple and basically Apple pointed me at a support page that listed the fact that there are two of them you can buy from somewhere one of them was lynxis and lynxis just never quite got around responding ubiquity right uh ero did give me event in a quote basically it's just what you said as I say on the site uh not doing it anymore and the implication was no plans but no real reason behind it given so so I started thinking it's unusual that Apple would have have a dead standard but I'm starting to think this is what it is and and I did not actually appreciate the matter aspect of it I feel like now it makes more sense you put it in a context that I didn't see so that's good we should see um this I mean it's useful functionality it's not the end of the world that I can't get it it's just I'm I'm an apple nerd I want to play around with all the toys and this was a interesting toy to me I'm not really worried about security threats of that nature um it's just again it would be interesting maybe it would r internet load being able to isolate certain devices I don't know it was it was just a nice concept to explore that I never got around to and maybe never will I realized that there I said to you that I'd never heard of this and I watch all the wwc's I must have heard of this it was announced at the one in 2019 but I've realized the reason it just went straight past me like a football match was that 2019 was also when Apple TV plus was first announced so I mean it didn't start streaming till what the first of no but it was announced in March so we are 5 years in since we first heard the term Apple TV plus said by Tim Cook I can't remember now if the name was rumored before but five years in they're doing all right I think aren't they Apple Apple TV math you you remember the iPhone math rumor um no uh so there was just a quick diversion um there was a rumor so before we got the pluses it was the iPhone oh yes yes uh you know five or whatever nobody knew how they were going to use terminology to describe the larger phones and there was a leak from China that was a poorly translated leak that called it the Apple iPhone math and uh that was that was fun for a few minutes but anyway right because the plus symbol translated to math of course it did right I'm slly catching up on that one okay I like it all these years later I get it yes if there was an Apple TV plus why isn't there an Apple TV minus but Apple TV maybe that'll be the ad version Apple TV minus oh but yes okay so Apple TV plus 5 years ago I was excited for the moment they announced it I remember the silly very specific Apple event they had they talked to Oprah on stage and just uh I don't know it very much of its time uh preco uh it was a sign Apple was moving in a different direction Services was becoming a big deal Wall Street was still worried Apple's going to go bankrupt in day now because they were tooo relying on the iPhone oh 5 years what a what a ride I and and it has become probably one of my most watched services on my television yeah no joke same here to my great surprise cuz um there's a thing with all TV channels that they need one breakout hit um the big examp Netflix uh really took off once they did House of Cards and they did it in this way of uh releasing it all in one go which at the time was kind of unheard of so that was a very good show in a very unusual circumstance and that was ignition for Netflix and you can go all the way back HBO The Larry Sanders show did it if see it's one show to put it on the market on the on the on the map and with apple it seemed to be taking ages and then suddenly there was Ted lasso and I know I'm not a fan but everybody else is and once it had that it was somehow people paid more attention to everything else and it had all these other great shows I mean I would never have expected that I would watch so much but proportionately at the moment I think I am probably watching more certainly more Apple TV than I am Netflix to the extent that I really should probably cancel Netflix and I did cancel Paramount plus cuz it just there wasn't anything on there my bank has given me a Year's free of Disney plus and I realized last night that was two months ago and I haven't been in to look so maybe I'm just not paying enough attention to the streamers for it but I really need to get rid of Netflix uh I keep it around because there's lit two or three shows that I'm slogging through I need to sit down one day and just binge through them one of them is Pokemon but the issue is you can't buy them on iTunes if I had the option to just go buy yeah every season of Pokemon and stranger things and um there there's the one from uh Matt groaning uh escaping disenchantment if if I could just buy those and own them in my iTunes library and cancel Netflix I would have done it already which is probably why it's not a aailable on iTunes because they really need you to come back to Netflix that's their whole business model is you can only see it here and I'm happy to see other uh streamers not doing that so much you can buy all of Game of Thrones on iTunes um so I would I was excited when streaming was taking off a few gosh a few years ago a decade plus ago uh cut the cord get rid of cable I was already buying iTunes movies and TV shows at the time so it was like oh I'm already ready for this this is great uh Apple TV plus comes along even better Apple's in on the game I I subscribe to everything right now and that's annoying because I don't get my money's worth out of everything I'm watching One show on each which I feel like everyone's kind of doing and it's it feels like a waste of money to pay $15 a month to watch John uh not John St John Oliver on HBO and there's you know no active TV show I'm watching on HBO otherwise it's just now I'm kind of it's it's it's that cycle now I'm kind of pulling back Inward and I'm saying do I need all these services do I just need to downgrade everything and get rid of all of it and subscribe just to watch an episode and then unsubscribe and I'm thinking I might get back to that eventually it'll take time but it's just this Market it's out of control price-wise and uh I I think we're going to get back to Cable soon basically where HBO is going to have 15 channels in it and you're going to have to pay $20 a month for it we're going back well we're already seeing bundling happening more everywhere yes HBO is uh Cartoon Network uh Nickelodeon is Paramount you know all everything is is is so now all we need is one more streamer to buy another streamer and then there there's basically two left and maybe it's a good thing because then I only have two subscriptions maybe that's a bad thing because those two subscriptions cost $90 but yes I'm not sure where we're going to land here but it's def itely fun to watch I know for the entire 5 years of Apple TV plus and actually I think before uh all the analysts were saying Apple must buy somebody else's library and I can't remember how strong this was but there was a story that apple had looked at mgm's library for example because if you look at all of the streamers Apple TV plus has by far the fewest shows the smallest Library by a very very long way and it keeps not buying others for it and I think actually there right in a way they don't have much but what they have is generally speaking very good and you can't say that about Netflix is just is enormous and has to keep getting new stuff yeah yeah people keep saying there's nothing to watch on Apple TV and I I counter if you get Apple TV today it would take you six months to watch everything on Apple TV plus and it would all be worth it honestly there's probably two shows on there a couple of kids shows that's not worth your time but um you you know you don't need to be watching the weeny dog cartoon or or whatever but um it there's enough there to keep you entertained their documentaries are amazing their nature shows are amazing I love their dramas every drama they have on there is just spectacular they have a couple of good comedies I I really enjoyed Ted lasso but of course I I really liked the other one that Creator did uh gosh shrinking uh so good I I can't wait for more shrinking I've seen the first of shrinking and I thought that was tremendous but I just haven't got around to aming and you know we're about to see sance come back that's another popular one it's in uh infinite production Loops but I think it's coming around Soo should actually Silo should have finished filming as the second season by now so hopefully that'll be soon and we already know slow horses uh is well into its Fifth Season production they almost two at a time always fun I yeah interesting I don't know how they quite work it but they were definitely preparing a series before Apple confirmed that they were re-upping it so I I would say Apple TV plus is very interesting it's changing too uh I think ads are coming and I don't think that's a bad thing I think honestly that means the people who just are unwilling to subscribe in whatever way apple one or individually will finally get to watch the stuff I wouldn't be disinterested in a Pluto TV style Apple TV service kind of like apple music TV that's just playing on a schedule and you have to jump into the show just to kind of have that kind of throwback cable feature Pluto TV does that now um I there's so many ways this could go but I I I was going to ask you a question and it came back to me just now William uh so you said Apple needs to buy something right Apple needs to own a back catalog but did you know I don't think that but everybody's been saying it do I know saying it there there there have been two at least that I know of things Apple has purchased back catalogs of do you know no well one of them is it come to you no I think it's something to do with sport in which case but no Fraggle Rock Apple has the entire back catalog of fragle rock oh Charlie Brown yes sorry Charlie Brown has the entire back catalog of Charlie Brown and there's one more it's not going you're not going to know it I I don't even know the title of it it's the Ean McGregor motorcycle thing oh right I knew I thought they made a new one of that so they got the rights to the previous rights rights are so strange I mean I've always known they are but um just because this has just happened with my wife Angela she's watching a show called manifest on Netflix and it gets the end of season one and she doesn't often Let It Roll On To The Next Episode it's one episode time but this time she did and rolled on and she's thinking God this has moved on fast it had gone from the end of season 1 to the start of season 4 because Netflix doesn't have the rights to Seasons two and three isn't that I mean part of it makes sense Netflix made the deal after season 3 was produced but you would think that would get them one two and three for it but no they can't have two and three until next year plus of course the opening moments previously unmanifest gave away two years worth of spoilers for The Show for us so she's well she's you know carried on she's six episodes in now but it was a bit disappointing including there's a character who eyes or something so you know all in all not a good move the auto roll that time but I I would like to point out one last thing about Apple TV plus they if you haven't noticed I don't know how often the listeners might poke around the app I'm there almost every other day because I want I I buy I buy new deals I bought Look Who's Talking Now in 4k the other day uh that have you ever seen that film William no oh what John Travolta is a cab driver and uh there is a baby that is born voiced by Bruce Willis and he speaks from the point of view of the baby and it's very humorous very very 80s in its style but anyway uh so Look Who's Talking Now and I bought uh SpongeBob Squarepants uh the movie The Original theatrical movie they made for $5 so I'm always hunting little deals like that and if you you know if you if you're like me and you actually enjoy the first like three seasons of SpongeBob that is an excellent Spongebob movie but moving on I would I was wanting to point this out Apple has started doing this thing now anyone who's paying attention knows that Apple did this before they brought in movies from other things into Apple TV plus briefly and it went away it seemed like they were doing like a trial and this was a couple years ago and everyone's like oh is Apple TV finally doing the Netflix licensing are they going to you know have more things here didn't didn't really pan out but now where they're doing it again and it's very vocal about it they're advertising it it's at the front of the page they have a bunch of movies I I don't I haven't counted but like 20 movies uh based on roles in current Apple TV plus things so people in Palm Royal that just came out uh those actors starred in other movies and so Apple has licensed those movies for Apple TV plus viewers to watch with their subscription and there's actually a Quee an Apple TV plus right now that says currently available bonus movies or whatever and leaving this month so and so it seems like they're going to continue to do this going forward which is very exciting I just found out last night the community is leaving Netflix in the UK very soon so I've been rewatching the episodes of it that's interesting isn't it I would never have thought of that before but it does make you watch more knowing that they're going right I tell you I think that is our show especially because now all of us have this homework go watch everything on all of the streamers and then come back next week by which time who knows we may have some iPads so let before the new iPads come um great talking to you where can people find you these days lurking well they can find me probably watching Samurai Jack because I bought that for $25 uh the other day I'm telling you the deals they have are are in insane anyway no I'm actually on Macedon that's the best place to find me um M I'm West what am I anyway hilly Tech madon doso um you can also find me on Twitter but I'm not really there I'll reply to Notifications I just don't really use the app anymore and of course you can always email me that's at the top of any article that I write click the email button and my email will appear in there you can write me a note complain about my podcast skills or write about uh you know any articles that you may have read maybe you've read my couple of Apple Vision Pro stories there are three big stories are written now that I want everyone to go check out let me know what you think um what about you William where are you on the internet well as ever I'm going to say it's email again and actually same as you through Apple inside email and I've had some lovely emails this week it's been really nice but what I would like to just for once to tell you where you will not find me which is on the iTunes Store anymore uh I I have a us and UK iTunes and I explicitly I it was very difficult to get a Us store account when I'm in the UK but I did it whenever the stores began specifically because every September there would be the First episodes of practically every new American series on there for free so my us iTunes account has hundreds of Dramas most of which admittedly got canceled after episode two but hundreds of them three episodes it was great and you did not ever get that in the UK but just last night I was looking through again saying are there any and that appears to be gone so I'm going to have to go buy things now like a normal person but that's where I'm not for the moment uh email is the best thing let me say thank you to our sponsor at notion really interesting app that I'm just dig into that more and we'll see you all next weekhello welcome to the Apple Insider podcast I'm William Gallagher as sponsor this week is notion more about that later on also later on if you are a premium subscriber it's week two of our brand new Apple Insider plus feature in which this time as of we're going to step away from the news step away from everything that's really going on and focus on things that matter to us all all the time in this case Wes hilard and I are going to have a writing app kind of SmackDown we all write on our Macs and our iPads but only I'm getting it right that's basically how it's going to run I think uh Ward you're not going to try to argue against that later at all are you oh no no of course not I I I uh give way to you on anything writing uh right yes in that case this week's app Insider plus is a very short thing but I am victorious so much to get to before we have that um where I don't think anybody new is suing Apple today so is there anything else going on in the Apple World well I think we finally got an announcement maybe not the one we were looking for I was expecting WWDC but it seems Apple has announced something called vvv DC what's going on here yeah I got a admit I'm very very confused by this I am wondering whether Apple used AI to design its WWDC logo that would explain a lot wouldn't it I'm not the first person to think of it okay right some people some people have called it uh Volkswagen DC cuz that that's another interpretation okay I get it now yes it's it's definitely a a a direction I'm not sure if it's the right one because of course instead of talking about the upcoming um developer conference we are now talking about the silly logo uh and I'm not entirely sure that that was the intent of the logo but I I don't know maybe Vision it's it's all it's going to be all Vision uh but of course we we don't we know that's not true it's going to all be all about AI right so it's just when you say that about a direction it's it's a new direction is the kind of phrase you you hear in projects uh like well it's an interesting departure for something and it's never a complimentary thing but listen every year every year there's a new logo and this doesn't happen to be my favorite but every one of them gets every pixel examined I mean I saw somebody saying ah but the colors the panone colors match those of the Siri icon so clearly it's about Siri and yeah it could be my favorite do you have a favorite my favorite was the neon uh with the uh exploding emoji heads that was I thought that was really clever oh I'm not a massive Emoji fan so of course no I just thought the design was fun yeah no Joe isn't that terrible you you're listening to me think back through all of these things I we should have a poll who did it best how long has WWDC been going quite a while isn't it so I the one where they announced the iPhone nope that wasn't a WWDC was it I think I'm going off on one here pull me back the key thing is we now know when it is and of course Jun we also know what's going to happen we know everything that's going to be said don't don't we we have a good assumption anyway one thing that's interested me is I I know there's a consistent thing that we're going to hear about Ai and that doesn't seem like it could possibly be wrong but just in the last couple of weeks there's been like this slight change that it won't be that AI will somehow be part of iOS 18 that maybe there'll be an AI app store or that there'll be just kind of something else and I don't really know where all that's come from are are there strong rumors about this sort of stuff well there is definitely a lot going on in this space uh we talked about it last week that there might be a new strategy where Apple would license Google Gemini oh yeah and have its own minor like smaller uh language models and AI tools inside of iOS and Bridge out to Gemini and other llms when needed so Apple wouldn't actually have its own llm more evidence of that has actually popped up in the last week but also there's some suggestions that maybe as a part of this or an an extension or alternative to this is Apple would have a uh llm app store or AI app store which I think makes a lot of sense because then people choose what they do and don't want so nothing's imposed on them I suppose that which is a big thing about AI do you trust it if it's just slapped in your face if you have no control over it would make sense too uh I the evidence I was hearing about that suppored this was that Apple was purportedly in a deal with um I don't know how to pronounce it B AI do B uh which has since been denied but in such a way that you're thinking yeah that's just happening there the ink hasn't dried yet that's all but I don't know whether that's indicative of Apple reaching out to many different partners like they are with Google or just that b is a Chinese company and there are regulatory issues there about partnering with people like that is it I'm sure apple is in talks with a lot of companies and maybe we're only hearing about um a few of those potential Partnerships but uh we have to keep in mind while it's not really thought of this way not in today's language but every app on the app store is a partnership with apple in some way you have to sign a contract and upload an app so bringing apps to a new app store that are AI specific would require a new contract so to speak so of course there's negotiations of course there's discussions as to how does this work uh how much are we going to charge how much commission are we going to take if this is an entirely New Concept I'm sure there's an entirely new business model and again it would be separate from the current App Store where apps are experiences you download like apps games tools and the AI app store would be a little bit more specific so if I had to assume this is how it works of course don't take my word for it but this is a guess uh if if you've been paying attention to the AI space there are these different versions of tools uh developers can build basically different specific Renditions that do very specific things I forget what they're called I think there some of them are very stupid GPT chat GPT calls them gpts that's it's a silly name didn't know that's okay yes but it's basically a branch of the larger language model that lets you do very specific tool sets so let's say you need to very specifically expand images by if you have a 4x3 image and you want to add some artificially filled in background well you could go download an AI that does only that that's been programmed to silliness to do that or if you need a writing Tool uh like grammarly you could literally go and download just grammarly's AI tool and have it appear across your system and I think there's going to be um systemwide functionality with these tools rather than it being contained to a sing single app and that's why it would need its own app store because it would have API calls that went across the system it it would just be very different from the conception of what an app is so future dramas where the police lean in to the monitorin of grainy image and the hero says enhance it they'll go yes but I first have to go to the app store and find the right talk yes I could see that that would work that would actually be less distracting from it my mind just come back contracts something surprised me recently about contracts is kind of related I mean not very work with me on this um yes with a brand new business model of course it's going to be all brand new but we recently had that thing where transcriptions appeared in iOS 17 and the latest version of Mac OS the for the podcasts app and every podcast producer had to sign a new contract say or at least a bit of a new contract saying yes that kind of thing feels like that should have been there from the start or the if not the word transcription at least some catchall term that covers every possible exploitation of the material should have been there and and it wasn't so is Apple just you know not as good at contracts as it used to be or is it so busy doing so many of them that it doesn't have time to develop anything new you can get suit in America for everything so I think Apple's just covering its basis by having specific language updating its contracts being too broad is actually an issue in law and yes you don't you don't want Apple to be too broad because again it just leads to lawsuits and then you have to go to court and explain your interpretation as the law but it because it's so broad someone else has a different interpretation and then it's up to a jury to decide which interpretation is correct and again you you don't want that situation to arise yeah but you know lawyers have got to eat haven't they we need to keep them in business those poor guys you know they they're struggling out there multi-billion dollar doj lawsuit keeping them you know barely Soup cans on the street I I expect if they have a roof over their heads they can't sleep in it for worry and i' just been reading scripts to The Alig Mobile TV series if you even remember that and it's all very lawyer Centric because the show was so I'm on the side of the lawyers in this one forget Shakespeare bring back the lawyers that we need them this is going so far away from what we're going to get at WWDC and actually something I'm really interested in the customizability of iPhone pH screens I don't know what I'd customize do you do you know what's being said about this so again in the broadest terms we're not really getting much information here but it seems apple is going to open up more customization options for the home screen which means uh more free placement of app icons and widgets uh someone actually pointed something out the other day in iOS 14 when widgets were first announced one of the demos Apple previewed that never actually released was the ability to actively resize widgets while in the wiggle View and have widgets change based on the size that you pick for that area instead you have to go into the widget picker and pick the specific size you want that that interaction never actually came to be um also many widgets are just unused different interaction types were never brought about we only just got intera interactive widgets that can show more live updates but again still not qu quote unquote live because uh it has to basically do a push to the app to get new information rather than the app pushing to the widget so it's kind of upside down the information can be out of date clock widgets can be wrong because of how they're being refreshed uh the clock would just be the wrong time it's very odd so there's a lot of stuff that can be improved there underneath but on top of things from the user perspective we're expecting to see like I said free free placement of objects so right now if you put an app on your home screen and you get a grid of four by I don't know eight icons I think it's 32 and if you do that it has to go in order 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 filling in those rows you can't have any blank spaces unless you install like a fake widget thing there's there's ways to trick the system but again they're tricks so you would actually be able ble to do this using iOS free placement different grid types have widgets anywhere and the doc would potentially get a new launcher like app Library button that would launch the app Library so okay I mean does any of that sound useful to you William not you know rushing to it um I think when you see it in action and you know Apple will show it off in some cever way after that I'll be going yeah yeah I'm having that but then I think I said that about widgets are you more interested than I am well I usually get blowback for this but I still believe it's true um since iOS 14 and every iteration since so it's just increasingly so Apple has crossed the customization Paradigm of Android so previously it would it was argued that apple with its Simplicity it's basically just grid of icons was not very good it wasn't very customizable and all you could really do is add a wallpaper and organize things alphabetically or you know put them in a certain order put them in folders it was very limited then they added widgets then they added uh interactive widgets and uh shortcuts and focus groups and all these things that allow you to basically change how your iPhone looks based on whatever Paradigm you're in work personal school and have everything change including your wallpapers and design you could go from uh you know a gaming mode with with a silly anime wallpaper and gaming stats on your lock screen too when you walk out the door to go to work it shifts over to a very business classy neutral tone uh and different apps and widgets for your work and all at the push of a button with Focus modes so very personalized very custom in the last couple of years so my argument is that Apple has actually become more customizable in a more useful way than Android ever has been and I know I can hear the people screaming right now yes you can't install those uh janky launchers that allow you to ride roller coasters when you ride an when you open an app or um basically get uh motion sickness every time you change which app page you're on because you're on a carousel I get it you enjoy your GPU uh driven interfaces but that's not what I'm talking about when I talk about personalization I mean truly making the device work for you in a way that no one else can and Android cannot touch Apple's implementation here I think I like Apple's implementation except I'm just looking at my phone now and I've realized I have one widget I have that um smart stack widget on my second page and I don't really even look at that I kind you gr up icons on your first page yes and on well I only have well three pages at the moment but yeah have i at some point William I would recommend you don't have to but I would recommend get rid of all of your app icons start from a blank page just add a couple of widgets add the Siri recommend recommendation widget which uh is eight icons that let that just changes based on time of day and see if you can live with that for a while have everything in the app Library search for an app if you need it in Spotlight and honestly any app you need in the moment will most likely appear in that Siri uh widget that that recommends different apps throughout the day if that doesn't work for you fine but the everyone I've shown this to and set have this set up a single page with a few widget stacks and that rotating app view usually the best fit for a lot of people especially more casual users that maybe don't live on their phone Someone Like You William that you know is more just LIF picking up the phone to do a certain task at that moment the little app rotating guy I keep saying it Siri I don't mean to but the uh widget for that is actually so intelligent so useful that you'll never think about it again you just open your phone and say oh there's the app I need click it and there you go not not convinced I I'll have you know my home screen is finally honed over many many years your finger knows exactly where to go of course yeah it does actually I dropped something Rec I forgotten what it was it wasn't using it anymore um and I think when I first replaced it everything was slightly out of kilter so yes I would be tapping the wrong thing with that looking it feel like a personal attack you can't yeah you open your phone it's no longer yours yes Yes actually when I pick up somebody else's phone to do something for them I'm thinking it's all wrong they've got all the wrong apps all in the wrong place but also when they Apple first brought out that app Library I thought it was so impressive and during the beta testing period for it I would swiped to that and yeah anything I wanted was right there but I haven't seen that happen since we came out of beta I mean I've just looked at it now and I mean there's a compass app is showing up I haven't used that compass in ages and I don't even know what that next one is what's that next one widget redo right I haven't been in that in a year so where is that widget located right now well I just mean I go went into the app Library uh the back I have while you were talking I loaded well I thought I did I loaded a series suggestions oh I appear to be going into my bank now what are you doing stop it okay it actually has to be there for it to learn it it doesn't learn from the widget selector screen right but the app Library should cuz actually I go into that quite a lot I don't know why that's the odd thing app Library I I've heard from other people and it's same for me it learns what you need it's it's the series suggestion uh widget but uh across the entire app Library everything that should be presented at the top should be what you need when you're looking for it usually but I've noticed that the categories jump around so I'll go to click on something and it's one spot higher than before and it it it confuses me I two two wish list items I think for iOS 18 for me would be able to fully customize the app Library create a category put apps in that category organize the apps inside of that category delete categories you don't need that would be amazing I would do that all day perfect for me uh rather and sure having the automatic system is great Apple trying to take the control out of it is fine but I think it's a little too aggressive if it could find a way to land at a point and stay there I would be okay with it but it it shifts around to much and my other wish list item would be just more systemwide extensions I know this has nothing with the home screen but I this goes along with the AI App Store so I hope this may be as a thing but I want more apps that are just basic utilities rather than downloading an app that's just for um text for creating txt files which is an app I have on my iPad get into that later um instead of just having an app that creates. txt files that I can share have that just be an extension inside of a different writing app or uh an extension of the files app right rather than having to launch an entirely different window but that's what I want anything you want from IOS 18 or Mac OS 15 this year Well normally I think no and it's a failure of imagination on my part but I would like my photos icon to not keep moving around on my iPad when I go into the app Library uh for it um that's a small thing I actually every year I think when I eventually figured out that I remember that I need this I would like apple mail to add more kind of swipe tool options like things like spark mail have I get so many emails that I need to put into my to-do app on focus it would be I mean I have ways to do it now it's all very quick but it' be nice just be able to go swipe or Tap a button and share properly into these things more actions in mail but you know otherwise I like mail I'm all right with that I just so I'm saying this to you and my mind is on that txt thing surely when you're in Pages or something you can export well I've exported to word and PDF and RTF isn't text in now I think I think I've opened pages one time in my entire life but oh well I'm I'm definitely going to win on the Apple inside of plus writing Jews Smackdown clearly okay what's wrong with pages that might be nothing wrong with it I have different tools okay um I write in drafts I think you do sometimes as well don't you uh the way I see p just for the audience that isn't paying the way I see pages is I'm writing a book report for school or I'm writing a book or you know I this is a dedicated location where I'm literally creating pages of a document now I have I I lied I have used pages to create documentation for our jobs sometimes we need to explain how we do something in case we're out six so someone else can go and do it and I find that uh putting text in one side and an image here here and arrows and stuff it's useful for creating those kinds of PDF export type deals but again pages is a document creator I am building something that's probably that could be printed or something like that that's the way I see Pages whereas my text editing is not like that I am a web Creator so everything I do is for the web and pages is not for that no I'd agree with that I think a definition of a word processor these days is a writing app that was developed while we still all had PR um but I do actually really like pages I think for a writer it's very good but Apple's work Suite is so underrated people really sleep like people buy I know people who still buy Macs and iPads today and they're like can I install Microsoft Word I'm like just don't don't bother it costs too much money and it doesn't do enough on iOS get just use Apple's free pre-installed apps but anyway we've strange thing is I've I have a long history of disliking Microsoft Word I mean there's very good stuff in it as well but also ludicrously bad stuff to bus the design is awful oh terribly so but with Exel for some reason I'm more of a fan of Xcel and yet maybe two years ago now I swapped over completely to numbers I was always using it for something but every spreadsheet in my business now is on numbers and I can automate it I can do so much in it I I really like numbers the world should switch to numbers well possibly possibly not but anyway okay so spreadsheets going away from text F and going further and further away from WWDC uh let me cover this I have already heard the rumor that there will be Hardware at WWDC we hear this every year I think I said this last time without fail oh yes this next thing is coming the Mac Pro or whatever and then it doesn't and then the same people say well of course it wasn't going to WWDC is a software thing but already it's started is there any chance Hardware this year do you think it's actually kind of going the opposite direction it is a software event but Apple has been good about making it focus on Pro Hardware because this is a developer event so they want to talk about developer Hardware so I would expect the M3 Ultra Mac Studio with M3 Ultra and maybe the Mac Pro update but again that's $7,000 computer getting updated on an annual basis just feels wrong to me but we'll we'll see what Apple does here well to be fair the previous year's version was 50,000 so yeah oh if they kept putting it down at that um what's the opposite of a geometric progression is it logarithmic if they could keep going down at that Trend down that amount to yes okay wait till next year they'll be giving them to us this yeah yes I've still got an on Mac Pro under my desk although actually after your advice last week I can now sit down at this desk I have begun moving things so oh beautiful the Mac Pro may be the next thing to go this episode is brought to you by notion now notion it's an app that I think really you need to try try it out for yourself because I can tell you that notion gives you this one space actually this rather gorgeously designed space where you can write notes and put documents into I can tell you that and you get it you understand the concept easily enough but I don't think you actually feel it you don't feel why this is so good until first you give notion a try and then suddenly you realize hang on I'm really into this now it's notion has become has somehow become the one tool you use for everything notion is that expansive it's that capable you can do all of your work inside it and do so without making compromises and and certainly without having to fiddle with features to kind of make it work for you it just does although your work in notion is going to look completely different to mine because well yeah this is a one tool for everyone it's far so far away from being a one size fits all kind of app in small and large ways you can customize notion to suit yourself and the thing is this isn't just a theoretical feature you will customize it's just so easy to adapt Notions tools for your needs that you'll do it as you go change this add that explore something new in notion you'll use it and it will be brilliant for you and those tools by the way do include AI now all right it's not as if there's a worldwide shortage of AI tools but in every case that I know of to use an AI tool in your work well you have to kind of leave your work go to the AI app go to that separate AI tool do what you need to do and then come back not here not with ocean AI CU in notion the tools the AI tools for simplifying your work they're just right there part of it as you work away in notion you can ask it to search your project for something you have remember or or you can set up automation so that you concentrate on the work you need to do the work you want to do while notion gets on with the organizing chores that you used to have to do try notion for free when you go to notion.com slapple Insider that's all lowercase letters by the way notion.com apppp Insider all lowercase to try the power for easy to use notion AI today and when you use our link you're supporting our show notion.com apppp Insider or lowercase thank you very much to notion for its support of the Apple Insider podcast um but Hardware normally when I mean Hardware I'm obviously thinking Max because I think of Max first we are still waiting for iPads and I don't know why I think I'm taking it personally well I think I know why and I I I I this is completely conjecture and again people rejected it but I still think there's some there's some value in it Apple Vision Pro launched on February 2nd it's a $3,500 face computer and honestly I would argue that the primary business it is aimed at is existing pro suumer pro iPad users the guys who already lived on the iPad and could get work done on it and use it as a serious computer is one of the primary selling points for Apple Vision Pro it's not the only selling point it's an amazing entertainment computer but I was able to move my entire workload to Apple Vision Pro without even trying so I would have to assume I'm not the only one on earth I know I'm a very Niche section and apple uh there's actually a very good uh podcast called under the radar where um gosh the names have escaped me uh but anyway under the radar is at least the name of the podcast and the the developers there discuss some of their trials and tribulations of development and they the latest episode as you listen uh they discussed the sales numbers of their apps and they're very popular apps one of them is overcast the podcast app and the other one is widget Smith and we're talking thousands of installs for these you know very very popular apps that you know generally see millions of maybe not for overcast but again just very low numbers compared comped to what they see on other platforms to the point that just to move on from this but to the point that I think uh the widget Smith Creator David Smith did the calculation of if I literally took how many users use widget Smith on iOS versus how many use it on Vision OS and said okay out of 365 days of the year how many hours days minutes should I spend developing each with as an equal ratio and it was about six minutes for vision OS by comparison like so he could spend about to get his money's worth he' have to spend about 6 minutes developing Vision OS uh for how many users he has on the platform so very nent platform very early on but that's what I'm saying that's the group of people I'm talking about so for Apple to turn around after Vision Pro and release a new iPad Pro with magic keyboard possibly if you deck it out and buy all the new accessories the new Apple pencil you're entering that $3,000 price range very quickly and for a group of people that may have just already spent $3,000 Plus on a Vision Pro headset are they going to be ready to do that again three four months later of course this is all going to get blown out when Apple on Tuesday announces the new iPads it's just the proximity I think was a little too ludicrous when people were saying oh it's coming at the end of February early March April May May sounds more realistic to me just because you need that Breathing Room you need that space to just get the market to where it needs to be for Vision Pro and I think it has gotten to that point they've sold as many as they're going to sell for that initial flood anyway in the United States that's why it's about to go to the other countries very soon uh then get the iPads out in the spring and the people who have the money will buy both the people who are waiting for the iPads will buy the iPads Apple's going to do fine I'm not worried about that it's just I think strategically speaking they couldn't release them we apart it it wouldn't make sense thing is anything I say here feels to me like it's got to be fatuous because you have an apple Vision Pro and I haven't even touched one but I you keep referring to it as like this iPad is tool and I think that might be because it's colored that way you've come from the iPad whereas everything I look at it and every example I see it feels like it's a Mac on your face so is that just cuzz I'm I'm coming from the Mac B are we both bias is the wrong word but leaning way you can put the Mac inside of Vision Pro so and and I think you know Vision OS 2 even not even we don't even have to wait on new hardware I expect a future update to allow multiple Mac monitors or perhaps Mac Windows just open as floating spaces inside of Vision Pro any of those things could happen in the future but right now you can just open a Mac window full well quote unquote 4K it's equivalent to 4K uh as a monitor and you can blow it up big and have a mouse and keyboard and mouse around sitting in Yim on it on your Mac as a 30 foot screen in front of you all well and good but my argument for saying it's not exactly a Mac is because you still need a Mac to do that function it's not doing that without a Mac so yeah so it's a it's an amazing Mac accessory it's a it's a good Mac monitor I would say but that it's no different than using an iPad with sidecar so that's the that's why again I would lean into the iPad Paradigm when describing Vision Pro versus MAC because it isn't running Mac OS it isn't running Mac apps it's running iPad apps it's running Juiced up my iPad apps for vision OS and it's able to connect as a Mac display but it is not a Mac I would say I actually thinking of you on Monday CU I was doing half a day for Apple inside and half for the writer Guild and I was in London away from my home I was uh in a cafe and I had my MacBook Pro with me but I don't know what it was just something about getting out a very very expensive MacBook Pro in this place where I wasn't feeling very safe I got out my iPad Pro instead because it was kind of smaller I could snatch it run away faster um and I ended up I thought I'd just do quick things I've got to do to set up start up Apple Insider work and then move to the mbook pro and I didn't for the entire day I actually spent it on the iPad Pro and I've never done that before with apple Insider I I found the odd you know hiccups for it but I thought it would be slower I thought I'd have image problems like I've done in the past when I've briefly tried it but no it all worked and actually one thing I want to ask you about is I came across an app I didn't realize I'd installed it years ago actually on like three iPads ago I must have installed this an app called yoink a shelf app y i n k uh you use this to let me move images around more easily uh paste is better right so so yink yoink is um actually an excellent app I don't even know if it's still in development it might be go to the app store and see the last time it was updated cuz I believe that's one of those shelf apps that CA that might have came and went um or I might be thinking of a different one uh there's there's a there's three or four out there that are uh pretty good but I my current one is paste and it's a universal clipboard tool but also a shelf so you can create categories and save copy and paste items and view them it it works so so well uh and I I I really enjoy paste but yoink is another really good one if you're on an iPad um and you just need a location for stuff but then again the files app also just kind of you know does that so it really depends on what you're looking for if you're using yoink as an image uh tool then just use use the files app I would say or or photos but if you're using it to save links uh it's a it's a good link saver tool I didn't realize that paste was a shelf I'm not keen on Pace because the Mac version of it uh I love clip managers I seem to have accidentally got three of them but Pace was very visual you know I just want to paste the last sentence and it would show me a big poster image of what they it was only a sentence uh so I use Alfred 5 or sometimes keyboard M and raycast has it for free and all this stuff but I so I hadn't looked any fur further into post I I will reexamine I like uniformity and that and that type of display is still there on the Mac I have it mapped to you know it's by default command shift V and it opens the paste uh board basically and it is giant things you click on if you want to go back in your history I think there's a way to toggle that to make them smaller or lose the icons at least but I personally I like having that universal access across the system again I wish iPad would let me control shift V anywhere and just bring up paste that would be amazing uh and maybe if if this AI App Store thing is a thing we'll see more Universal tools like that across the system different apps are trying different things right now it seems to be uh keyboards everyone's making a quote unquote keyboard but they're not actually keyboards paste has a keyboard that's just its UI inside of it inside of the keyboard um there's sticker Pickers and all kinds of weird things happening with keyboard selectors these days and I think Apple probably sees that and they're like we we need to break this out into a wider system so maybe we'll get lucky with iPad OS 18 and uh better stage manager as well as they continue to improve all of that uh Andre just got a Mac and the sales guy tried to impre we'd already we basically paid for it and he was still trying to S on the benefits of it and one of the benefits he was championing was stage manager and I think he could see me going yeah you don't use it on Mac did you use it on your iPad or you still using I think that's where I first tried it um and I just I don't take to it anywhere um I suppose I just when I was in doing the thing in London I was doing side by split view with like uh twoth thirds of the screen and one at one/ thir on another and that was surprisingly useful normally on an iPad I like one thing at a time and I don't know why CU on a Mac it's like I just before you and I had started talking I think I quit 15 apps that I was running and it's not that I put them on and forget about them I was using them all all day so why I'm Different on an iPad I don't no but they are different tools what are we going to be like though when the next big excuse me the next little thing comes from Apple the smart ring yeah tell me about smart Rings yeah I I'm interested in this as a concept because I want everything to be smart I almost bought the Nike tennis shoes that paired via Bluetooth that could tie themselves because no no no no no wait wait that's from Back to the Future that isn't real that's actually what that's the reason why they were created in 2015 uh because that was the year that they traveled to and Back to the Future Nike created self-tying shoes to celebrate the anniversary you could connect to over Bluetooth you'd slip your foot in press a button on your phone and the shoelaces would tighten around your foot uh they stopped selling it about two years later and discontinued the app so sorry anyone who owns those shoes and can no longer tie them but I'm sure the app still works but it's just funny to me that yes I I am re astounded how interested I am it's I mean I'm an adult man and I still have trouble uh tying my shoelaces I don't know what I get wrong about it but I go slip on shoes quite a lot so this appeals yeah yeah I I I have Adams with stretch laces and I've never tied them I just put my shoes on and go on about my day anyway I'm not a sponsor podcast but I really love Adam shoes but no wearables that are smart I I'm I I am so here for it I I want this the silly future junk that you see in movies I want the t-shirts that can change logos but when you press a button I I I want the pants that have a built-in battery that'll charge your phone who knows how you wash those of course right I just I I want all the silly stuff because I I find it interesting is any of it actually useful who knows but a smart ring I think could be different uh an interaction Paradigm so snapping your fingers pointing different things like that we've seen in these patents uh a different Health metric it could draw if you wore your Apple watch on your left arm and the apple ring on your right arm it could perform more accurate ECGs by doing a uh three-point ECG instead of a two point uh because it could do the return route on the ring and back to the watch as well and yada multi-point ECGs there's a lot of potential here but what what do you think William well the reason I'm interested now is that I read uh a patent about it and at the top of the patent it was all about gestures like you've just said and I thought what these sound like apple Vision Pro gestures then the more you get into it it is specifically skinto skinin contact they say I don't know how it would register the skin but it's definitely not just waving your hands in the air it's thumping your hands together or something and sensors those exist oh okay now thinking about how they get that into a ring I'm Pro ring because I actually wore one for a while a company called um uh wave wave for work uh had they still do a ring that it's quite it's very plasticky a bit rubbery maybe in bits has a couple of buttons that will do certain things and I was using it to present from I would just kind of vaguely gesticulate at the screen and keynote would switch to the next slide and stuff like that and I really liked that because it was by far the least interrupting way of changing slides I mean I tried doing it on my phone and it everybody thought I was just messaging somebody you know and I tend to walk around a lot so I'm away from the keyboard and these things and I don't have Steve Jobs's two clickers or whatever youed go so I thought actually practical things so that's my interest but just for some reason maybe it's this thing of when you're interested in something you hear more about it in the last week I seem to be hearing more people saying definitely coming there's app Apple inside a video about it so you know it must be true it must be happening what else has gone on to tell us this I think the apple ring is uh something that's just I mean patents are everywhere for it but it's one of these things we've been hearing about since like 2016 so it's definitely something they're working on internally but whether or not it'll see the light of day is still in question I could foresee this being an important augmented reality device imagine having the apple ring and walking into a room pointing at a homepod and then tapping your finger and and it start playing because it knows that you pointed at the homepod and you tap and you did the play gesture or pause something on the TV just with your finger or uh control the light by pointing at it you using um like ultrasonic frequencies and stuff like that like maybe we have all uh much smarter homes with these uh different tools that can tell where you are in a space and then the ring communicates with that so more advanced home pods and stuff like that all very possible in the future but you need a way to control it and the Apple watch isn't going to do that cuz it's on your wrist so something more directional more motion sensitive like your finger would be great I just you say that and I'm picturing me striding into a room like with you know this matcho image I've got H and go oi onod you stop playing and that just fit actually hang on wait a minute it's rude to point okay yeah you kind point with the finger guns you know right yeah I don't think I can really carry off either of those looks but all right I just I wonder would the would as smart ring replace the Apple watch I mean no because youve already got the time on your phone uh if you were the kind of person who's desperate for a more uh busy or professional look you could ditch the watch for a couple of hours put on your suit put on your Apple ring and still get your heart rate notifications and track your Fitness and your steps and your stand goals just from your finger instead of your wrist and then that way you can have your very nice watch but uh it would be limited in scope I think compared to the Apple watch I think the pair will definitely be important uh this goes back to the double tap gesture I think if we have an Apple Watch and an apple ring working in tandem more things will be possible with both of them so just it's interesting I just think that we need to get better at with future products looking at them from an augmented reality standpoint from a spatial Computing standpoint because I think that's the primary goal Apple's going to have here not just Health sensors which is a part of it but I think spatial is where apple is right now and where we should be thinking it's funny sometimes I feel like on the other side of a wall from you because I've never even touched an apple Vision Pro and you basically you're in the future that's what it's like okay I I do wonder One Last Thing Before we move on from Apple ring is is anyone going to use it as their wedding band Yes of course they are first first person so CU okay so I I don't know how Universal this is it's pretty pretty Universal but generally speaking you propose and you have an an engagement ring uh that the woman wears and that's usually just a a like a small diamond or something and then when you get married it's actually that part is the very simple band it's usually maybe a gold or platinum band or you know whatever metal you would like and uh and the man and the woman both or whoever partner Partners uh wear the ring would that be would I wonder if the first divorce would occur because someone suggests that they both forever wear an apple ring but I think that's dangerous because then you have to upgrade it every couple years and are you going to upgrade your wedding ring I honey it's I it's I know it's just a symbol but it it has more RAM in the new version we got to we got to get the next apple ring with this ring I USBC charge you no wait a minute how would you charge a smart ring magne too thin well just but it' be on the rim wouldn't it so there wouldn't be a lot of surface area compared to the back or something thing oh that's true okay maybe you just zap it with like put a fork into an outlet and connect it to the ring and it just kind of charges yeah rushing to that okay that's right well I tell you I'm conscious that in many ways we've been talking about the future a lot today WWDC of course but also smart Rings the the potential for yet more spatial Computing but there are times when Apple will bring out something and it just doesn't happen and this on Apple inside we've been looking at one of them homekit secure routs oh not the deliveries app okay not the deliver I'm still mourning that I I wish it would work yes I mean I wrote this piece so I know something about it but actually before I started the piece I knew nothing I had even heard of hom kit secure routs and you had so I don't actually know have you got one of the legendary fabled two or three homekit secure roters that seem to have ever been made yeah this story was my pitch uh Mike handed it off to you uh I think just yes i' done something wrong it just to torture you a little bit punishment uh also he I'm very much a software guy and he's trying to show me the eror of my ways and how much more interesting Hardware is so far he's failed but this was the latest attemp and it was really interesting so thank you but can you explain previously on H kid secure RS well I have a problem so I have velop and I have the Wi-Fi 6 router and I bought so I had the Wi-Fi 5 system back in the day this has been a couple of years and velop came out with a new set of routers and they actually put in the documentation homekit router secure router support coming soon uh there was even I think a homekit Insider episode where we talked to the guys it was it was coming so I was like okay great I'm going to go ahead and buy this router excellent it's going to get it eventually bought it it's you know paired it with my Wi-Fi 5 system so it's kind of a bridge Network at the time nope uh never never happened just they they never perform the update but they did release a new set of Wi-Fi 6 routers that was homekit compatible so I ditched the rest of my Wi-Fi 5 routers I'm now on a two node system uh one from the uh larger more expensive Wi-Fi 6 router that was promised homekit didn't happen and one of the Lesser versions that does have homekit turns out can't do that either can't have a mixed Network must be both homekit router supports so while I do have a router in my home that technically can do it I would need to buy a another router remove the original and have a two noes system with just homekit secure uh networking didn't bother Because by the time I got around to shopping for that system and maybe just upgrading away from lynus maybe looking at a different one I discovered they just didn't EX exist because I I was looking into Wi-Fi 6C maybe even Wi-Fi 7 which is very expensive um and I just found no one was talking about it so I started digging who has Wi-Fi 6 uh routers with homekit and ero literally has a page that says we're not doing this anymore linkis is mum about it they removed their stickers from the pages that offered future homekit only the ones that have it now will ever have it uh then there's the one from ubiquity un just nope nothing nothing nothing no more new homekit routers are coming anywhere I couldn't get anyone to talk William I think had a little more luck as far as finding out more information but to long story short to explain what a homekit secure router is the idea is very simple and it's actually being baked into matter so maybe Apple saw the writing on the wall that they didn't need to do it anymore and just pulled the program but um that makes sense but yeah but but mat matter will be able to do this probably it see it seems seems to be the case but the idea is you have a router that is aware of the devices on your network and you can go into a settings view and say these devices are isolated from the internet they are on an intranet for your home that can communicate with the um Apple TV hubs it can communicate with each other but can never ever ever access the internet meaning that way you can guarantee no one's you know secretly looking through your we your your home security cameras no one's secretly going to gain access to your light switch or something but it is absolutely isolated to your home network and that is what home homekit secure routers promised and can do if you go buy an old router today that is outdated and too expensive what would you find out there on on your research William I started to wonder if it was a joke that if you were just ganging up on me and play like a left-handed screwdriver or something um I did talk with apple and basically Apple pointed me at a support page that listed the fact that there are two of them you can buy from somewhere one of them was lynxis and lynxis just never quite got around responding ubiquity right uh ero did give me event in a quote basically it's just what you said as I say on the site uh not doing it anymore and the implication was no plans but no real reason behind it given so so I started thinking it's unusual that Apple would have have a dead standard but I'm starting to think this is what it is and and I did not actually appreciate the matter aspect of it I feel like now it makes more sense you put it in a context that I didn't see so that's good we should see um this I mean it's useful functionality it's not the end of the world that I can't get it it's just I'm I'm an apple nerd I want to play around with all the toys and this was a interesting toy to me I'm not really worried about security threats of that nature um it's just again it would be interesting maybe it would r internet load being able to isolate certain devices I don't know it was it was just a nice concept to explore that I never got around to and maybe never will I realized that there I said to you that I'd never heard of this and I watch all the wwc's I must have heard of this it was announced at the one in 2019 but I've realized the reason it just went straight past me like a football match was that 2019 was also when Apple TV plus was first announced so I mean it didn't start streaming till what the first of no but it was announced in March so we are 5 years in since we first heard the term Apple TV plus said by Tim Cook I can't remember now if the name was rumored before but five years in they're doing all right I think aren't they Apple Apple TV math you you remember the iPhone math rumor um no uh so there was just a quick diversion um there was a rumor so before we got the pluses it was the iPhone oh yes yes uh you know five or whatever nobody knew how they were going to use terminology to describe the larger phones and there was a leak from China that was a poorly translated leak that called it the Apple iPhone math and uh that was that was fun for a few minutes but anyway right because the plus symbol translated to math of course it did right I'm slly catching up on that one okay I like it all these years later I get it yes if there was an Apple TV plus why isn't there an Apple TV minus but Apple TV maybe that'll be the ad version Apple TV minus oh but yes okay so Apple TV plus 5 years ago I was excited for the moment they announced it I remember the silly very specific Apple event they had they talked to Oprah on stage and just uh I don't know it very much of its time uh preco uh it was a sign Apple was moving in a different direction Services was becoming a big deal Wall Street was still worried Apple's going to go bankrupt in day now because they were tooo relying on the iPhone oh 5 years what a what a ride I and and it has become probably one of my most watched services on my television yeah no joke same here to my great surprise cuz um there's a thing with all TV channels that they need one breakout hit um the big examp Netflix uh really took off once they did House of Cards and they did it in this way of uh releasing it all in one go which at the time was kind of unheard of so that was a very good show in a very unusual circumstance and that was ignition for Netflix and you can go all the way back HBO The Larry Sanders show did it if see it's one show to put it on the market on the on the on the map and with apple it seemed to be taking ages and then suddenly there was Ted lasso and I know I'm not a fan but everybody else is and once it had that it was somehow people paid more attention to everything else and it had all these other great shows I mean I would never have expected that I would watch so much but proportionately at the moment I think I am probably watching more certainly more Apple TV than I am Netflix to the extent that I really should probably cancel Netflix and I did cancel Paramount plus cuz it just there wasn't anything on there my bank has given me a Year's free of Disney plus and I realized last night that was two months ago and I haven't been in to look so maybe I'm just not paying enough attention to the streamers for it but I really need to get rid of Netflix uh I keep it around because there's lit two or three shows that I'm slogging through I need to sit down one day and just binge through them one of them is Pokemon but the issue is you can't buy them on iTunes if I had the option to just go buy yeah every season of Pokemon and stranger things and um there there's the one from uh Matt groaning uh escaping disenchantment if if I could just buy those and own them in my iTunes library and cancel Netflix I would have done it already which is probably why it's not a aailable on iTunes because they really need you to come back to Netflix that's their whole business model is you can only see it here and I'm happy to see other uh streamers not doing that so much you can buy all of Game of Thrones on iTunes um so I would I was excited when streaming was taking off a few gosh a few years ago a decade plus ago uh cut the cord get rid of cable I was already buying iTunes movies and TV shows at the time so it was like oh I'm already ready for this this is great uh Apple TV plus comes along even better Apple's in on the game I I subscribe to everything right now and that's annoying because I don't get my money's worth out of everything I'm watching One show on each which I feel like everyone's kind of doing and it's it feels like a waste of money to pay $15 a month to watch John uh not John St John Oliver on HBO and there's you know no active TV show I'm watching on HBO otherwise it's just now I'm kind of it's it's it's that cycle now I'm kind of pulling back Inward and I'm saying do I need all these services do I just need to downgrade everything and get rid of all of it and subscribe just to watch an episode and then unsubscribe and I'm thinking I might get back to that eventually it'll take time but it's just this Market it's out of control price-wise and uh I I think we're going to get back to Cable soon basically where HBO is going to have 15 channels in it and you're going to have to pay $20 a month for it we're going back well we're already seeing bundling happening more everywhere yes HBO is uh Cartoon Network uh Nickelodeon is Paramount you know all everything is is is so now all we need is one more streamer to buy another streamer and then there there's basically two left and maybe it's a good thing because then I only have two subscriptions maybe that's a bad thing because those two subscriptions cost $90 but yes I'm not sure where we're going to land here but it's def itely fun to watch I know for the entire 5 years of Apple TV plus and actually I think before uh all the analysts were saying Apple must buy somebody else's library and I can't remember how strong this was but there was a story that apple had looked at mgm's library for example because if you look at all of the streamers Apple TV plus has by far the fewest shows the smallest Library by a very very long way and it keeps not buying others for it and I think actually there right in a way they don't have much but what they have is generally speaking very good and you can't say that about Netflix is just is enormous and has to keep getting new stuff yeah yeah people keep saying there's nothing to watch on Apple TV and I I counter if you get Apple TV today it would take you six months to watch everything on Apple TV plus and it would all be worth it honestly there's probably two shows on there a couple of kids shows that's not worth your time but um you you know you don't need to be watching the weeny dog cartoon or or whatever but um it there's enough there to keep you entertained their documentaries are amazing their nature shows are amazing I love their dramas every drama they have on there is just spectacular they have a couple of good comedies I I really enjoyed Ted lasso but of course I I really liked the other one that Creator did uh gosh shrinking uh so good I I can't wait for more shrinking I've seen the first of shrinking and I thought that was tremendous but I just haven't got around to aming and you know we're about to see sance come back that's another popular one it's in uh infinite production Loops but I think it's coming around Soo should actually Silo should have finished filming as the second season by now so hopefully that'll be soon and we already know slow horses uh is well into its Fifth Season production they almost two at a time always fun I yeah interesting I don't know how they quite work it but they were definitely preparing a series before Apple confirmed that they were re-upping it so I I would say Apple TV plus is very interesting it's changing too uh I think ads are coming and I don't think that's a bad thing I think honestly that means the people who just are unwilling to subscribe in whatever way apple one or individually will finally get to watch the stuff I wouldn't be disinterested in a Pluto TV style Apple TV service kind of like apple music TV that's just playing on a schedule and you have to jump into the show just to kind of have that kind of throwback cable feature Pluto TV does that now um I there's so many ways this could go but I I I was going to ask you a question and it came back to me just now William uh so you said Apple needs to buy something right Apple needs to own a back catalog but did you know I don't think that but everybody's been saying it do I know saying it there there there have been two at least that I know of things Apple has purchased back catalogs of do you know no well one of them is it come to you no I think it's something to do with sport in which case but no Fraggle Rock Apple has the entire back catalog of fragle rock oh Charlie Brown yes sorry Charlie Brown has the entire back catalog of Charlie Brown and there's one more it's not going you're not going to know it I I don't even know the title of it it's the Ean McGregor motorcycle thing oh right I knew I thought they made a new one of that so they got the rights to the previous rights rights are so strange I mean I've always known they are but um just because this has just happened with my wife Angela she's watching a show called manifest on Netflix and it gets the end of season one and she doesn't often Let It Roll On To The Next Episode it's one episode time but this time she did and rolled on and she's thinking God this has moved on fast it had gone from the end of season 1 to the start of season 4 because Netflix doesn't have the rights to Seasons two and three isn't that I mean part of it makes sense Netflix made the deal after season 3 was produced but you would think that would get them one two and three for it but no they can't have two and three until next year plus of course the opening moments previously unmanifest gave away two years worth of spoilers for The Show for us so she's well she's you know carried on she's six episodes in now but it was a bit disappointing including there's a character who eyes or something so you know all in all not a good move the auto roll that time but I I would like to point out one last thing about Apple TV plus they if you haven't noticed I don't know how often the listeners might poke around the app I'm there almost every other day because I want I I buy I buy new deals I bought Look Who's Talking Now in 4k the other day uh that have you ever seen that film William no oh what John Travolta is a cab driver and uh there is a baby that is born voiced by Bruce Willis and he speaks from the point of view of the baby and it's very humorous very very 80s in its style but anyway uh so Look Who's Talking Now and I bought uh SpongeBob Squarepants uh the movie The Original theatrical movie they made for $5 so I'm always hunting little deals like that and if you you know if you if you're like me and you actually enjoy the first like three seasons of SpongeBob that is an excellent Spongebob movie but moving on I would I was wanting to point this out Apple has started doing this thing now anyone who's paying attention knows that Apple did this before they brought in movies from other things into Apple TV plus briefly and it went away it seemed like they were doing like a trial and this was a couple years ago and everyone's like oh is Apple TV finally doing the Netflix licensing are they going to you know have more things here didn't didn't really pan out but now where they're doing it again and it's very vocal about it they're advertising it it's at the front of the page they have a bunch of movies I I don't I haven't counted but like 20 movies uh based on roles in current Apple TV plus things so people in Palm Royal that just came out uh those actors starred in other movies and so Apple has licensed those movies for Apple TV plus viewers to watch with their subscription and there's actually a Quee an Apple TV plus right now that says currently available bonus movies or whatever and leaving this month so and so it seems like they're going to continue to do this going forward which is very exciting I just found out last night the community is leaving Netflix in the UK very soon so I've been rewatching the episodes of it that's interesting isn't it I would never have thought of that before but it does make you watch more knowing that they're going right I tell you I think that is our show especially because now all of us have this homework go watch everything on all of the streamers and then come back next week by which time who knows we may have some iPads so let before the new iPads come um great talking to you where can people find you these days lurking well they can find me probably watching Samurai Jack because I bought that for $25 uh the other day I'm telling you the deals they have are are in insane anyway no I'm actually on Macedon that's the best place to find me um M I'm West what am I anyway hilly Tech madon doso um you can also find me on Twitter but I'm not really there I'll reply to Notifications I just don't really use the app anymore and of course you can always email me that's at the top of any article that I write click the email button and my email will appear in there you can write me a note complain about my podcast skills or write about uh you know any articles that you may have read maybe you've read my couple of Apple Vision Pro stories there are three big stories are written now that I want everyone to go check out let me know what you think um what about you William where are you on the internet well as ever I'm going to say it's email again and actually same as you through Apple inside email and I've had some lovely emails this week it's been really nice but what I would like to just for once to tell you where you will not find me which is on the iTunes Store anymore uh I I have a us and UK iTunes and I explicitly I it was very difficult to get a Us store account when I'm in the UK but I did it whenever the stores began specifically because every September there would be the First episodes of practically every new American series on there for free so my us iTunes account has hundreds of Dramas most of which admittedly got canceled after episode two but hundreds of them three episodes it was great and you did not ever get that in the UK but just last night I was looking through again saying are there any and that appears to be gone so I'm going to have to go buy things now like a normal person but that's where I'm not for the moment uh email is the best thing let me say thank you to our sponsor at notion really interesting app that I'm just dig into that more and we'll see you all next week\n"