Episode 84 - Apple's Q3 earnings, more 'iPhone 7' rumors and Apple Car

The Evolution of Car Technology: Understanding the Future of Self-Driving Cars

Platforms that have been used by companies like Ford and Fox for 20 years or more are examples of how technology evolves over time. These platforms, such as the Fox platform, are not updated every year but rather undergo significant changes and updates to remain relevant in the market.

When it comes to evaluating a car, people often discuss its handling, smoothness of ride, acceleration, and braking capabilities. These factors can greatly impact the overall driving experience and make a car feel like an extension of the driver. The control and connection that drivers feel with their vehicle is essential, whether they're cruising down the highway or navigating tight corners.

One major difference between driving a human-driven car and a self-driving car is the user experience. With a human-driven car, the driver is fully responsible for the vehicle's movements, and every decision is made by them. In contrast, a self-driving car is controlled by advanced software and sensors that work together to navigate the road.

Apple's involvement in the automotive industry has sparked significant interest and debate about the future of car technology. The company's potential entry into the market with its own brand of cars has raised questions about how it will impact the existing car companies. Apple's expertise in user experience is likely a major factor in this, as well as its ability to integrate complex software systems with hardware.

One possible scenario is that Apple will partner with other car manufacturers to create self-driving technology for their vehicles. However, there are several reasons why this partnership may not be the most effective approach. Firstly, each car manufacturer has its own unique set of features and design elements, making it difficult to standardize software across different models.

Furthermore, creating a standardized system for self-driving cars would require significant investment and collaboration between multiple companies. This could potentially lead to a fragmented market where Apple's technology is not as seamless or integrated as desired.

Despite these challenges, many experts believe that the future of car technology will be shaped by companies like Google and Apple, which are already working on advanced autonomous systems. These companies have the resources and expertise necessary to create cutting-edge software and hardware solutions for self-driving cars.

However, even with significant advancements in technology, there are still numerous factors to consider when creating a self-driving system. The complexity of modern cars, combined with the need for robust sensors and advanced software algorithms, makes it difficult to create a system that is both reliable and efficient.

One major consideration is the reliability of the vehicle's computer systems. Modern cars rely heavily on complex software and hardware components, which can be prone to failure or glitches. In contrast, a self-driving car would require a highly reliable system that can navigate various scenarios and adapt to changing conditions.

Another critical aspect is the safety features built into the system. A self-driving car must be able to detect and respond to potential hazards on the road, such as pedestrians, animals, or unexpected obstacles. This requires advanced sensors, cameras, and software algorithms that can process vast amounts of data in real-time.

In conclusion, while Apple's entry into the automotive market has sparked excitement and debate, there are numerous challenges to overcome before self-driving cars become a reality. The development of reliable and efficient software and hardware systems, as well as standardized protocols for integration with other manufacturers' vehicles, will be essential for creating seamless and integrated self-driving technology.

Ultimately, Apple's user experience expertise and innovative approach to car design may give the company an edge in the market. However, it remains to be seen whether its technology can overcome the numerous technical and practical challenges that must be addressed before self-driving cars become a mainstream reality.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to the Apple Insider podcast episode 79 this is Mikey Campbell back from the dead with me today Neil Hughes managing editor appleinsider.com how's it going Neil hey Mikey it's going pretty well awesome so big news this week uh of course Apple's fiscal third quarter earnings came out um mhm beat Street estimates of course not not as uh not as good as some investors would like but um you know 40 million iPhones what do you think I mean sales are still declining um and that is a point of concern on Wall Street where all they're interested in is growth but um the share price went up after earnings uh by about six bucks um because analysts were expecting results to be worse than they were they came in a little bit better um there were some good and some bad I mean obviously you still have iPhone sales declining um but uh one of the strong points actually uh is even though uh iPad sales were down by a little bit uh the average selling price increased by like $100 or something and uh they actually saw uh their revenue increase even though they sold fewer units so that is a direct effect of the 9.7 in iPad Pro launching uh in March so uh you're seeing now that uh Apple's making a push for more of the premium tablet Market even more premium than before really uh considering you can get some of these Amazon tablets for like 50 bucks now or whatever it is um they're really pushing for that 500 plus dollar market and I would not be surprised if the iPad Mini um does not get updated as frequently um because I don't think Apple's really interested in the unit sales growth at this point as much as they are um finding ways to make it a a formidable laptop replacement and and uh profitable uh uh high margin business for them interesting because the mini kind of carried iPad for for a little while there when uh the fullsize sales kind of uh flagged when maybe uh 20 early 2015 or so yeah I think that um uh really the iPad is something where apple is still trying to figure out what it is uh certainly the hardware is excellent the software uh is lacking in many ways we we've talked about that before where Apple really needs to do more to increase productivity and things on the iPad but slowly but surely they're getting there uh that's one of the biggest disappointments I think with the iOS 10 announcement of WWDC is there really wasn't anything specifically for iPad uh that was announced that was any that was really meaningful and when you compare that to iOS 9 and all the features that it added for iPad that really made it uh feel like a big update for iPad uh one of the rumors that I had read about about was that uh Apple's saving iPad specific stuff for 10.1 and 10.2 um it is sometimes frustrating for Apple for as large as they are to be such a singularly focused company that they can't you know juggle a few things at once but um yeah I'm I'm hopeful to see more emphasis on the software front going forward with the iPad but it's as someone who is a big fan of my iPad Pro I have the 12.9 inch model um it's good news to see that uh things are turning around on the business stand front for Apple um and that was really I think the biggest bright spot for them this last quarter yeah a lot of people are also talking about Services growth I mean it's been growing uh fairly consistently over the past few quarters and I think people are just kind of now catching on to the fact that um that's happening I mean it's always been growing this was a big narrative that Apple pushed earlier in the year when they were forecasting a decline the first ever decline in iPhones uh this has been the story that they want to tell and it's an interesting story and it's a good story um but I mean the amount of money they make on their services is still so minuscule um again this is all relative because Apple uh said during this week's call that the size of their services business is growing so fast that it will be the size of a Fortune 100 company next year which is incredible when you think about it but it also shows the difference between the halves and the Have Nots because apple is such a big company that this Services Revenue when compared to what the iPhone does for them is a drop in the bucket it really Apple's quarterly earnings are all iPhone that's really what it is the mac and the iPad yeah whatever but as the iPhone goes so does Apple and this quarter was 40.4 Million are you eating no yes Jes look I live a very busy lifestyle okay I eat when I can anyhow uh the average selling price of the iPhone dropped uh to under $600 uh this last quarter and that's really as a result of the um success of the iPhone SE uh which has sold more than Apple expected they they don't break down by unit but um certainly um the iPhone SE has driven down the average selling price but the margins remain strong um coming in at 38% on the quarter which was a little better than they had expected on on Wall Street yeah but yeah the services revenues last quarter grew % um and they expect to continue growing and it's a big part of Apple's business but it's just not going to move the needle like the iPhone does on the uh on the iPhone uh on SE thing I I was looking at taking a look at the SEC filing the 10q I noticed that um I it's not like a huge Watermark or anything but I noticed that the iPhone fell below 60% of uh total revenue for the first time since I think uh just December quarter 2014 huh interesting so I mean not not you know I mean it usually hovers around 603 I think it got up to like 67% or something but mhm it's kind of you know it's in the 50s now it's going back down maybe it'll be only half of Apple's um uh money-making product line in in the near future who knows I mean you know they announced this week that they reached a billion iPhones sold that they did and that is that is a incredible achievement but I mean they are selling so many iPhones and at $600 a pop I mean people talk about what is going to be the next thing for Apple what is going to be their next product I don't think that it's possible to create a product that will sell that many at that price I mean computers uh have not been that big um certainly wearables are not going to get that big no car is going to be that big uh the amount of money that's bringing in the sheer volume of phones that are being sold and apple will continue to sell um is kind of an insurmountable thing if you're looking for the next big thing I think you're looking wrong I think you know the iPhone was certainly a great product that came around at the right place right time I don't think it would be uh very very difficult to have a device come out a new a new category of device uh that would be as big as the iPhone I I don't I would be shocked if they were able to do something like that the iPhone is a once in a-lifetime type of device Apple glasses come on man right think B I mean what what's your best case scenario right I mean iPad's peaked at like 25 million and a quarter which is pretty impressive considering as a PC replacement essentially uh the Mac has never hit more than like five 5.5 million I think I don't think they've ever hit six million on the Mac um the watch I mean what's the best you're going to do on the watch 10 15 million in a quarter you know if they could drop the watch to 200 bucks and you know integrate GPS you know in the next four five years I can see them selling like 15 million of those in a corner but are you really going to push beyond that is there a market can you get to a point where you're selling 75 million watches in a quarter well no I mean you have to create a market I mean they created they basically built the smartphone market there was a market before it but it wasn't a strong one they made the smartphone market I mean they'd have to make this is more investors are kind of thinking about um disruption but I think they to get to iPhone levels again they're going to have to go more towards Crea Market creation and I don't think that there's anything out there I mean of course I sound like the uh I sound like the the people in the early 1900s who said uh everything that's could be invented has already been invented but uh I mean I don't know the iPhone was based on mobile Computing and Communications and I don't know I don't see anything that can be so uh widely accepted and you know widely needed right now do you yeah I people like watches but they don't necessarily need a smartwatch per se if you had a SmartWatch with its own LTE radio um and it allowed you to leave your phone at home how often would you leave your phone at home would you still bring your phone with you well yeah no doubt because I mean it's for a smartphone it's not just a Communications device it's also a gaming device it's also a way for me to um you check in on news and stuff I just can't do that that kind of stuff with a 1.5in screen it's it's just not something that I want to do right I I can see that you know if I'm going out with friends or something like that um the biggest thing I think would be the detriment of leaving my phone at home would be losing the camera uh to take pictures and stuff like that if I'm going to an event or whatever um the texting of course you could replace that at least in very basic ways on a watch uh wearable um making phone calls you know getting alerts that kind of stuff um I think there's something liberating about leaving your phone at home and I'm excited for uh a potential future where my watch is not something so dependent on the iPhone and kind of something that can stand on its own you've been watching too much Dick Tracy my friend well you know I've been thinking about um cuz right now I'm running my iPhone 6s with iOS 10 for work purposes obviously so I can write about the betas and stuff and I miss using my iPhone SE um but I didn't want to put uh iOS 10 beta on there because the iPhone SE doesn't have 3D touch so I couldn't test out those features for for work purposes um but I've been thinking you know because I'll have to get the iPhone 7 when it comes out to review that for work and stuff like that too and I was thinking it would be nice just to be able to switch between phones and the watch prevents me from doing that uh you know if I didn't have the watch I could just pop out the SIM card iCloud keeps everything syn between devices and and apps and all that kind of stuff wouldn't really that be that big of a deal but there is no way currently to easily switch your watch from one phone to another you have to deair it from the phone which then backs it up to the phone then you have to pair it with the other phone and then you lose all the stuff you backed up on the other phone and it's like crazy um that's one of those things I feel like it's kind of like the early days of the iPad uh where you needed to connect it to a computer in order to set it up um which seems like the Dark Ages now when you think about it um but I think that's one of those things that uh in the next couple years hopefully they'll be able to address because it would be nice like you think about this iPhone 7 plus coming out is going to have this really cool dual lens camera on it you know that's a really cool feature but I don't want to carry around a giant phone all the time it would be nice to if I had a phone that had those capabilities and I could use it on occasion that would be nice I I realized that we're talking about like insane nerdy luxury stuff here of owning multiple phones and all that but you know I think it's all in best in Apple's best interest to be able to sell devic more devices why not I mean you can uh how many what is is there a Max to how many watches you can pair with one phone because I know they obviously expanded that to Beyond one right but is there is there a cap on that I have no idea I I have not tried yeah I don't know I do that they've made it a lot easier um uh with watch S3 um like for example you go on there and it shows your watch with the current face on it and it has the case design around the outside of it so you can very very quickly tell if you have multiple watches which one is which and then you can switch between them and that's one of those things where I could see like for example um let's say that a new watch comes out this year you you already own the stainless steel one right so let's say a new watch comes out this year and it's got GPS and you really want that uh but you want to keep your stainless steel watch because it still works works and maybe you're going out for a nice night wearing a suit or something and it matches better um I could easily see a scenario where somebody keeps last year's watch and then buys this year's and they use them for two different purposes you might want to get the cheapest model just to get GPS you might want to keep the stainless steel one because it looks nicer um so yeah that ability to switch between watches uh makes sense so why not give me the same ability to switch between phones true they'd have to do a lot of uh I think well the for one thing the watch would have to be much more autonomous right they'd have to yeah which is kind of what they're moving to but very slowly um it's battery and processing power really yeah yeah and also I think uh maybe authentication and security I think they're possibly worried about that the the implications of um the watch you know being able to connect to multiple devices and being authentic icated on multiple devices is kind of scary for them so here's a question for you Apple likes to introduce um technology on one device and then gradually bring it to others we we've seen that many times um one of the big features that was introduced in the Apple watch and eventually came to other devices was force touch known as 3D touch on the phone do you think that the first place that we will get an ins screen touch ID is on the iPhone or on the watch I would think the more logical thing would be for the watch obviously since there's like zero screen real estate yeah um but I don't know I mean I from what I've seen uh as far as you know other companies and startups and stuff that technology is is not I it's kind of thick it's not something that would fit well in a space constrained device like the watch but theoretically I would I would probably want it in watch right I mean it's is it their only current device that does not have Touch ID Mobile it is right I think so um in terms of mobile I mean unless you want to count an iPod or something no iPod they still sell those who needs that yeah so it is coming I I could I would I would uh I would think that you I think we heard rumors about it being integrated into the uh digital digital crown there's some space in there right I mean it's kind of Dead Space yeah that would be a very interesting way of doing it I think because it's so small the scan area of the finger would be tiny I don't know if that would hurt the accuracy of it probably I mean they could enlarge the the digital Crown a little bit maybe I don't know I mean I think they might get a good read on that uh from that or maybe stick it on the side somewhere um with that ridiculous side button that is finally getting good use now yeah it's so much better than watchos 3 it's awesome oh God contacts cont and Apple pay two two things one one pretty useless for me which is contacts on Apple watch and yeah Apple pay well it's not it's not widely available where I live so um that that button got little to no use with uh os1 and os2 did you see there was a rumor that we actually passed on it wasn't a rumor it was a patent of adding the digital Crown to to an iPad and I was like what the entire purpose of the digital Crown is scrolling and being able to view content um and I do that all the time if I'm doing something on my watch and I'm reading something or flipping through it you just instinctively scroll with the crown because it's easier less movement and also you aren't obscuring the content but the nice thing about having an iPad with all that real estate is you are not obscuring the content when you're touching the screen there's plenty of room there it would be there would be no use for that even on an iPhone point I mean there's been bunch of patents about digital Crown I think I saw one um that also allowed it to be used with like a a laptop which is I mean ridiculous it' be it would be akin to having multiple touchpads on and one that only works in uh what two Dimensions or one dimension actually one thing that did come out this week though that we've heard a few times that um it sounds plausible to me although I will'll wait to see how it's implemented is uh the idea that the home button on this year's iPhone won't move it'll actually uh simulate the feeling of a click much like the force touch trackpad does on a MacBook Pro yeah I could definitely see that and a 12-in Macbook I could see it but you would need a very tiny localized motor in the home button actually to make it feel like you pressed it actually well yeah uh but I mean they they did a really good job simulating the the click with the um Force touch pad right it's incredible it's absolutely incredible yeah so um Victor was using this MacBook for a year and didn't realize that didn't click that's how good it is that that's good stuff but then again I will say though it is a little um uh when you go back to a trackpad that clicks you can definitely feel the difference right if you go back you're like oh this kind of moves and it it just feels different it's one of those things where when you move forward to the force touch trackpad you don't really notice it but when you move back you notice it yes it's your brain man playing tricks on you I I think the forc to touch trackpad is absolutely incredible I think it's one of the the most ingenious uh things that Apple has done in in the last five years frankly um it's very impressive and I think that if they can uh get something that works just as well on the home button on an iPhone I'm all for it but I remain SK skeptical until I try it because that's one of those you got to feel it to know it things and I was very skeptical about the force touch trackpad um and I'm a big fan so I have faith in apple to do it right but it is a very interesting idea uh that really paves the way for thinner phones uh waterproof phones and also potentially just getting rid of the home button entirely yeah I don't know if they're going to get rid of the button anytime soon but I could just I could see them modifying it the the assembly itself is is quite big right uh when everything else in the phone is getting so small I mean they're going to get rid of the headphone jack supposedly um and that's kind of that's super old technology um and and the and the button is kind of the way that Apple implements it is kind of in a kind of a weird place right it's right above the lightning connector uh and when you're slimming down phones there's really no I mean you can't really play with um there's not really much leeway in terms of where you can cram components and stuff especially on the peripheral of of a peripheries of a device where they have like speakers and microphones and all that kind of good stuff so I don't know I I I could definitely see the capacitive home button coming but I don't think it will be this year h does it feel to you like we have the full picture of what this phone is going to be I mean there's a story this week saying it's going to be called the iPhone 6 SE the the general consensus is that it won't be called the iPhone 7 because it's not a big enough upgrade uh but it feels like something about this feels like it has a piece missing I can't put my finger on it I don't really know what it is we we know what the phone's going to look like we have a general idea of what it's going to do but I it something just doesn't feel right am I wrong there yeah I think it comes down to the sources of uh of these leaks um to me it seems like there's leaks that are coming out that have been floating around for I don't know almost a year and then there's stuff that's more recent right and right people keep re-reporting and re and regurgitating the stuff like it's new leaks which kind of muddies the situation like is the phone going to have a headphone jack or not is it going to have Smart connection like some of these things we know Apple makes a huge number of iterations of a product before taking its production so you know what if these early leaks are some of the Prototype models that have you know that were scrapped six months ago but they just keep popping up in the news kind of confusing people then again then there's you remember Apple uh used to uh make no uh phony prototypes just you know throw people all the scent they haven't done that in a while because you know who cares when you're selling 40 million iPhones you don't need to be so protective over your over your product um but they might I don't know maybe they're doing that again who knows yeah but I I do agree there's there's something that we're not we're not seeing yet or there's something that Apple has in the works that I just we just don't we can't put a finger on it I guess exactly what it is what do you think I mean there you know at this point we know the phone's going to look largely the same it's going to ditch the headphone jack this this home button rumor is is iffy but we'll see if it pans out um it's expected it's going to have the same screen technology same general look all that kind of stuff I mean but there are so many things that they could do either on a software front or in terms of proprietary Hardware that we just won't know until they make the announcement like what if um and this is obviously extremely wishful thinking uh but what if the chip in the next iPhone is some sort of huge breakthrough in terms of battery life um obviously screen technology is still one of those things that is going to be a hindrance to battery life but what if they somehow manage to you know squeeze a bigger battery in because they got rid of the headphone jack and all that and essentially double the iPhone I mean I don't know if that's the case but that feels like one of those things that we may not even know up until the announcement and the kind of you know uh Little Secret they can keep hitting up their sleeve until they start shipping the product yeah it reminds me of when they uh launched um 3D touch you know on the 6s I mean no one really saw that Happ and they integrated like a a full haptics feedback system into an iPhone which is not something small I mean they well we knew that the phone was was going to have 3D touch we just didn't know what it was going to do yeah well I'm talking about like the haptic system the uh what do they call it not force feedback uh the taptech engine tap Tech Engine yeah so I mean it's not just like a redesigned vibration motor it's a it's a complete Standalone system that they developed on their own produced on their own it's not something small so I mean you're saying something like that maybe could be in the works something inside the phone that uh only um the producer of that part and I guess late later in the production stage the whoever's assembling it foxcon uh would know about but even if they're assembling it you know it may not look that much different or whatever um it's that marriage of hardware and software that makes Apple unique we knew that the phone was going to have this taptic engine and 3D touch last year but we didn't really know how Apple was going to implement it or what its value was going to be now you can make the argument that a year later we don't really know because not very well used D I use it at least once maybe twice a week I am using it more on iOS 10 but I still do not I only use an iOS 10 because it forces me to I do not use it um for the multitasking thing I never got used to that swiping from the left side and pressing um I still double tap the home button for multitasking well it it's not um it's not a consistent experience like you might it once but the next time you do it it you'll you don't know scroll back in Safari or something it's not uh it's not well implemented like it's other um it's other uses uh like on the app stuff the app shortcuts I guess would be useful but uh it basically it's just like an app launcher right it doesn't really do anything you need to go into the app itself then you know well with iOS 10 now you get widgets so yay widgets so the same widgets that show up on the lock screen you can get from an app by just for uh Force pressing 3D touching on it um and then uh it'll pop up whatever data um so you don't have to actually open the app I don't I don't know how useful that is I haven't really used that feature with the with 3D touch but uh you know that's one of those things where the software is going to continue to come together and the hardware capability is there and maybe with this next iPhone there's some sort of software breakthrough that we just won't know until Apple announces it and we can't know and that software breakthrough may require Hardware in the phone yeah yeah apple like to do that and we won't see it until the very well it'll be obscured in the last beta but maybe recently they've been pretty good about um kind of fiing out that stuff in the in the late betas yeah I think the most exciting thing dug up from the beta really is the dark mode UI that people have found you know what that means it's time for OLED probably not till next year but yeah next year man what do you think they'll call this year's phone I don't think they'll call it the S I don't think they'll bring the SE into the picture because unless they unless they announce a second phone that no one is talking about and that will be the flagship and then the all the leaks and stuff that we've been seeing are the iPhone 6 SE which will launch alongside it but that would mean Apple will have four phones four new phones this year which is probably not something that's going to happen but I don't think it'll be the SE I could see them calling it something else other than the seven because it isn't really a design change I go both ways on that I feel like they could just because I mean it's just branding who cares they could just stubbornly stick with seven and say all these changes that we've made make for an entirely new I mean you know the marketing you can hear Phil Schiller saying it now right all these changes we made make for an entirely new phone experience uh you've never experienced anything like this uh this is a completely new generation of product iPhone 7 I can see them doing that yeah what if they go I mean they could go seven this year and even if they do redesign next year they can call it the eight they don't have to go seven s kind of like you know iPhone uh to iPhone 3G you know Etc yeah well one of the rumors about next year's phone was that the new redesign is only going to apply to the 5.5 in model yeah I I could see that too but only in only in the case that they are um constrained on probably supplies of the OLED panels which I mean you know suppliers are still right now just trying to get their facilities up and running so they can handle something like that um uh we did Cover I think LG how much money did they Infuse into their one and a half billion or something yeah yeah everybody's prepping for these OLED screens they want to expand production so that they can get in on Apple's supply chain but the biggest olded manufacturer in the world is Samsung you got to think they're going to win most of the orders there oh yeah I'm sure but even so I didn't we cover uh someone's estimates as to um how much of the world supp OLED Supply Apple would devour if they were to implement to OLED Green in their Flagship product I think it was something we did have an IHS uh forecast today basically saying that Apple making an OLED phone will be the Tipping Point they think that most phones shipped uh by 2020 will be u o OLED screens overtaking LCD it' be kind of hard because Apple's going to Corner the market right and all that stuff there no one's going to want to I mean if you have a choice of selling to to Apple and cheli you're you're going to pick Apple I mean that's the same well but the idea is you know between all the companies out there sharp Samsung um you know all all these LG all the display makers ramp up production then they can you know meet a global demand for think so I don't know man I think we I think uh I think the OLED Supply is a little overestimated by people not in the industry well that would one reason for Apple to only go with the high-end model for it um that's that's what I I was thinking but I don't know man cuz I don't want to buy a 5.5 in iPhone and this year I might have to because the the camera camera is compelling enough I mean it's more than Optical image stabilization right that's exactly what I'm thinking because you know how much I hate these big phones but if I want to get cuz I love the idea of having a really nice camera on me and that's really the most exciting upgrade that I get in every Year's phone is how much better the camera is you know I'm shooting 4K video now and all that um you know having that big phone kills me but I could see myself in certain situations wan to use the big phone for the camera yeah yeah I tried the uh 6s Plus for I don't know a month or so this past cycle and I I couldn't it's just too big it feels like I'm it it feels like I'm carrying I mean it's a fablet so it feels like I'm carrying not a cell phone with me mhm it's more than a cell phone that I'm taking with me it's not something that I just pick up and walk out the door with I don't know it doesn't fit in my pockets you know I wear board do you like the size of the 6s uh yeah I mean I like the screen I got used to it it's the format of the of the of the SC is perfect for my hand size and pant pocket size and all that good stuff but um I think the benefits of having a larger screen uh outweigh the negatives of the overall large form factor how many Macs do you own including ones I don't use yes uh like four oh including the one uh five maybe how many iPhones do you own oh God six or seven maybe see this is what I'm saying you know to to switch between these devices or to have them available um I I don't think would would be that crazy of an idea to make it easier to switch between phones especially with the watch uh I'm would love to see it this fall I don't think we're going to see it unfortunately but um I think they've announced everything they're going to announce at least with respect to iOS 10 and watch OS but uh I mean certainly I have a couple Max I have a few phones so yeah I like to go back and rock the 4S for a while I love the design of the uh the SE um and it just feels good in your hand and uh it I it's it's the the shape and size of it are so much so that I don't even feel like I need to use a case with it whereas I have to put a case on My Success um you just can't use it one-handed uh very well you can't grip it and that that's the main issue for me yeah and this and this the six series design is very slippery with its curved curved edges and whatnot yeah I but I mean there are cases where I could see myself going yeah I'd like to have a plus siiz phone the camera um you know if I'm watching video on the go for example and I don't want to bring an iPad with me or something um you know a lot of times I'll be out in the back of a cab or at a restaurant I'm streaming a sports game um and you know that would be a great opportunity have a bigger screen so you can see more of it also the extra battery life you get from the bigger form factor is great too yeah so I mean there there are a lot of advantages that even I admit to as somebody who doesn't like big phones um I think I'm I'm in a position where this new phone upgrade coming out this year uh you know I if I'm just getting this if it's if everything that we've heard rumored thus far is all that it is and that's it I'll probably just return the phone after I review it I don't really see a need to keep that but I hate to say stuff like that because I don't know and nothing's been announced and it's just so presumptive and stupid to say that never know man the uh the new camera might be so incredible I can't well especially on the on the smaller model the the 4.7 in model if it doesn't have the Dual lens thing I I can't see what kind of an upgrade would be so significant that I would have to keep that phone especially ditching the headphone jack and all the other concessions and stuff that's why I think there's got to be some especially for that 4.7 in model you know if if the SMART connector and the Dual lenses are going to be exclusive to the plus model that 4.7 I look at and it's like maybe it's a big upgrade if somebody has like a 5S but for six even I don't know I think a lot of people are going to skip this upgrade well a lot of people are skipping the success upgrade which is not good that's why sales are down year over year so although you know it's a maturing market and not a lot of Need for um the phone and tough year-over-year comparisons and all that you know you can make all the excuses you want but the reality is they're selling less phones than they were last year Samsung's phone sales are up watch out guys um but uh one last bit of iPhone rumor um who was it that reported oh Digi times reported on the iris scanning technology that is potentially coming in 2018 what do you think about that I I'm kind of uh dubious that Apple would move away from the tried andrue Touch ID I mean Touch ID is so great because you don't think about it it's not something that it's not like the old fingerprint sensors that you swipe it's a unconscious decision that you make when you turn on your phone you just you turn it on and you're authenticating at the same time um Iris recognition is not at that level yet you would have to probably hold your phone up to your face I mean they they they've made purchases about you know face recognition companies and stuff that could help in this area but I don't think it's there yet what do you think I mean the technology isn't there yet but until somebody takes it there you know I mean you could always say that I I feel like um I like this rumor um and the reason I like it is because I don't think it has to replace touch idea I think it can be in tandem with it um for example there might be situations where it can't see your face or your eye and and you want to just use the the fingerprint sensor but vice versa there could be times where for example you're wearing gloves um anybody who lives anywhere that gets a cold winter knows that it's a big pain in the butt you're walking down the street you want to use your phone you got to take off your gloves your hands are freezing blah blah blah so um this is one of those things where I it makes a lot of sense um you could integrate this into Macs you could integrate this into iPad ads and watches and everything else uh uh imagine an Apple TV with some sort of a camera that did that too and this is technology that Apple's been interested in for a while um they uh in the when the first iPad was being worked on back in 2010 before it was released one of the earlier prototypes of it uh they toyed around with was a device that recognized your face and automatically presented your content to you when you picked it up uh it was seen by Apple as something that would be one device for the whole family as you said the technology was there and so they ended up just not doing it but they continue to be interested in that future and that idea and that is why they've purchase these facial recognition companies and that sort of stuff um and they presumably behind the scenes are still working toward that so I think some sort of facial Iris whatever secure recognition is an inevitability whether it comes out two years from now 5 years from now 10 years from now you know we will see uh but I don't think that it necessarily has to replace Touch ID I think it can be used in tandem with it um and make for a very compelling and convenient uh use case how long until we get the stories about your phone is watching you I mean don't we already have them well I mean even even more so we don't really see that much about Apple I mean they're so high on the high horse with their uh with their customer privacy stuff uh we don't really I mean you can get a Samsung phones now and stuff that'll unlock with your face that's like one of those features of Android I think actually it's built into the operating system but it's not terribly secure yeah also I'm not really sure I know that everyone's iris is unique but how what kind of resolution do you need to see the differences I feel like it would you know the the regular cameras on an iPhone probably won't be able to discern those minor minor differences well and and potentially you could have uh you know one of the rumors about next year's phone is that the OLED to screen is the screen is going to hide the camera the FaceTime camera behind it um you could in theory have more complex camera arrays included in the phone um you know because for aesthetic purposes you may not want that now but if they could hide it behind the screen and have small enough components potentially they could do something like that yeah the per pixel uh technology of OLED really opens the door to a whole bunch of new uh possibilities I remember there was a uh there's a patent that apple had I think it was like a I think the pixels in the display also doubled as um light sensors which were you know basically cameras so it had like all these the screen itself was a camera it wasn't it didn't hide a camera every pixel in the display was part of the camera so it was that's awesome kind of like blowing up the the um like a like a SEO sensor to the scale of like a 5.5 inch display so I could see that that' be that'd be interesting Victor and I talked about this a few weeks ago where if you're talking to somebody and you look just to the left or to the right of their eyes like in person you can tell even though you're you know you might only be looking you know six inches to the left of their face people can tell um even from a distance and it's kind of disconcerting and you have that same thing with uh technology now whether you're on a Mac or you're on an iPhone or whatever it's very personal but when you're doing a FaceTime call you're still looking just above their head or below in the case of the camera the little below where the camera is and that seems like a very Apple thing to do to address that issue and to put the camera in the screen where you're looking so that you're looking right at the person when you talk to them that's that level of human intimacy uh that apple is always trying to achieve and that seems like a very Apple thing to do yeah well personally I look through people when I talk to them so yeah no but yeah I see what you're saying it's uh it's definitely it's definitely something they would want to it's yeah not just for an aesthetic reason for a communication reason for that connection man yeah definitely that's something I could see them doing and I and I would not be surprised uh the rumor is it'll be a next year's phone and that would not surprise me at all shifting gears no pun intended pun intended to uh Apple car um there's a a couple reports this week on Apple's project Titan the uh first being Apple bringing Bob Mansfield back into the fold to potentially help out with their Automotive initiative so uh mansfi has been out of the picture for um you know since what 2012 or after 2012 when he announced that he was leaving or uh you know stepping down from his post as as um Hardware Chief um now he's back has he has he been gone this whole time or has he just been you know kind of floating around ccino helping here and there I think he was a adviser right to Tim Cook yeah he he he's had an interesting trajectory where he announced his retirement uh it did not go over well internally this is back in 2012 um Apple really kind of assessed the situation and said oh we can't have this so they apparently threw a boatload of cash at Mansfield to keep him around um he came back like three months later as an adviser to Tim Cook um he's no longer a part of the executive team but he has been with apple in some mysterious capacity um for the last uh four or so years um there's some belief that you know he's had hands and products that have come along including the Apple watch and uh in a shakeup um of the Personnel on the uh so-called project Titan team Mansfield is said to have been handed the keys so to speak um to the project as of this year um and then you pair that with the uh news that was uh broken today that the former CEO of qnx uh blackberry's uh uh operating system maker um gentleman by the name of Dan Dodge was also hired by Apple um which is a big deal because this is a guy who uh knows a thing or two and pretty much wrote the book on uh these um integrated operating systems uh that run in devices like cars and stuff like that so um the team is kind of coming together and it seems like in the last few months the rumors have been more focused on the software and development side of it than on the actual physical building of a car and one of the things that was presented today was Apple can keep their options open by focusing on the software side of it by um potentially maybe partnering with a manufacturer and being the brains in their car rather than building their own I believe the expectation is Apple wants to own the whole kit and uh will uh want to build the car as well but that's a very uh difficult thing to do considering the cost that has to go into it and the uh Decades of experience that automakers have that Apple would have to be would have to catch up on but people said the same thing about a watch too and here we are it's a little different though there a heavy industry and uh I don't know a smartwatch is kind of an Apple's wheelhouse right it's a portable computer car is not a however however much Tech analysts say that a car is basically a computer on Wheels it it's not it's it's a heavy industry that you know it these companies have hundreds of years of collective experience some have over 100 years themselves in making Automobiles and um it's not really something that you just step into uh whether I mean you can throw a bunch of cash at it you can hire the best but until you you know get a product out there see how it's received get it you know Road tested and all that kind of good stuff it's just not it's not it's not it's incredibly difficult I mean I mean this thing before it ships it's going to have to be pre-announced at a level that that Apple has never done before um you think about the iPhone it was announced in January of 2007 it launched that June uh you think about the iPad it was announced in January and launched I think March um you look at the Apple watch it was announced in September didn't launch till the next April right uh you're with a product like this to have it as you said Road tested to have the certifications to have the I mean you're talking about a self-driving vehicle this isn't something you can just throw on the road there's permits and all kinds of extensive testing that have to be done and that can't be done you know hidden in a van a mapping van or something this is something that is going to have to be uh pre-announced potentially years in advance uh in order to get all the proper permitting and stuff to get to Market I believe right and also uh I think it's uh people vastly underestimate the work that goes into a car it's not just an engine and you know uh a drivetrain and these things these things are platforms that a lot of companies use for 20 or more years on the on the same car they change the skin of it but the underlying mechanics are are largely the same like you know app uh Ford's uh you know Fox platform they've used they used that they no longer use it but they used it um um you know for I don't know how many years 20 years these things are huge Investments and they take not only years of um you know aftermarket tweaking and stuff but uh you know they they work on these things for decades and then they launch the platform and then they use it for another couple decades and it's not something that you just cycle every year let me play devil's advocate here when you when you're reviewing a car testing a car driving a car reading about a car whatever what do people talk about they talk about the handling they talk about the um the the smoothness of the ride they talk about uh you know the acceleration um this is the 0 to 60 argument that I oh God but but that's a big deal you know how does the car feel when when it's accelerating when it's breaking when it's turning those are so there there you know the car becomes an extension of you between your feet and your hands the control of it and all that there's a feeling on a car you know whether it's low to the ground to give you a sense of speed or high up to uh to make you feel safe on the road in your big SUV or whatever so much of that stuff won't apply with a self-driving Apple car the user experience becomes completely different because you're not the one controlling the wheel and you know maybe we're getting too far ahead of ourselves here because for the foreseeable future you're going to have to remain behind the wheel for safety purposes but I mean there's eventually going to be a day where not only um does the car drive itself but it'll be illegal for you to drive a car because the robots will be safer than we are you know um but I think that that is a big part of it that that existing car companies um maybe don't have the expertise that Apple has in terms of a user experience um and area where they could potentially uh shake up the market in big ways MH yeah well that would be uh that would be a thing wouldn't it you think I mean a different it's a completely different experience if you're not driving yeah I look forward to that day although I don't know I don't know 100 years from now it'll be a novelty to be able to go somewhere and drive a car and it'll be like a closed off area like bumper cars or something it's going to be like Demolition Man you're going to have the the old gas guzzler done and Taco Bell wins the food Wars exactly but also um interesting to see people walk back their predictions on Apple car hardware and uh kind of saying you know hey we always said that they're working on car software and and only maybe Hardware I cannot see a situation where apple is making the brains for multiple manufacturers of cars maybe one company but I mean the the marriage between especially in something like a self-driving car I mean gez this is not like a removable brain that you can just plug into a car and make it work there are so many factors here uh at play that it would make it very difficult for for Apple to you know be the brains and a Ford and a and a uh and a Maserati you know like it's just it's a completely different Market it's a completely different I I I think that if they were going to partner with another company you know say BMW or whatever it would be that would be the partnership and that would be it yeah kind of like Google right I mean that's kind of the road they're trying to go down although they have they have multiple multiple uh irons in the fire at this point with their Google car but yeah the partnership doesn't make a lot of sense for many reasons but as as you said just the hundreds of years of collective experience of automobile that apple does not have um that and going beyond the things we were talking about in terms of the experience but the actual functionality and and uh reliability of the vehicle I mean you know modern cars are pretty great in terms of how infrequently they break down and how infrequently you blow a tire but it still does happen that is most definitely true well that about wraps it up for this week um that was episode 79 of the Apple Insider podcast again with me this week was Neil Hughes managing editor you can find him at appleinsider.com and follow his ramblings on Twitter at thisis Neil I'm Mikey Campbell I can also be found on appleinsider.com as for Twitter you can find me at Mikey Campbell 81 have a good one heyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to the Apple Insider podcast episode 79 this is Mikey Campbell back from the dead with me today Neil Hughes managing editor appleinsider.com how's it going Neil hey Mikey it's going pretty well awesome so big news this week uh of course Apple's fiscal third quarter earnings came out um mhm beat Street estimates of course not not as uh not as good as some investors would like but um you know 40 million iPhones what do you think I mean sales are still declining um and that is a point of concern on Wall Street where all they're interested in is growth but um the share price went up after earnings uh by about six bucks um because analysts were expecting results to be worse than they were they came in a little bit better um there were some good and some bad I mean obviously you still have iPhone sales declining um but uh one of the strong points actually uh is even though uh iPad sales were down by a little bit uh the average selling price increased by like $100 or something and uh they actually saw uh their revenue increase even though they sold fewer units so that is a direct effect of the 9.7 in iPad Pro launching uh in March so uh you're seeing now that uh Apple's making a push for more of the premium tablet Market even more premium than before really uh considering you can get some of these Amazon tablets for like 50 bucks now or whatever it is um they're really pushing for that 500 plus dollar market and I would not be surprised if the iPad Mini um does not get updated as frequently um because I don't think Apple's really interested in the unit sales growth at this point as much as they are um finding ways to make it a a formidable laptop replacement and and uh profitable uh uh high margin business for them interesting because the mini kind of carried iPad for for a little while there when uh the fullsize sales kind of uh flagged when maybe uh 20 early 2015 or so yeah I think that um uh really the iPad is something where apple is still trying to figure out what it is uh certainly the hardware is excellent the software uh is lacking in many ways we we've talked about that before where Apple really needs to do more to increase productivity and things on the iPad but slowly but surely they're getting there uh that's one of the biggest disappointments I think with the iOS 10 announcement of WWDC is there really wasn't anything specifically for iPad uh that was announced that was any that was really meaningful and when you compare that to iOS 9 and all the features that it added for iPad that really made it uh feel like a big update for iPad uh one of the rumors that I had read about about was that uh Apple's saving iPad specific stuff for 10.1 and 10.2 um it is sometimes frustrating for Apple for as large as they are to be such a singularly focused company that they can't you know juggle a few things at once but um yeah I'm I'm hopeful to see more emphasis on the software front going forward with the iPad but it's as someone who is a big fan of my iPad Pro I have the 12.9 inch model um it's good news to see that uh things are turning around on the business stand front for Apple um and that was really I think the biggest bright spot for them this last quarter yeah a lot of people are also talking about Services growth I mean it's been growing uh fairly consistently over the past few quarters and I think people are just kind of now catching on to the fact that um that's happening I mean it's always been growing this was a big narrative that Apple pushed earlier in the year when they were forecasting a decline the first ever decline in iPhones uh this has been the story that they want to tell and it's an interesting story and it's a good story um but I mean the amount of money they make on their services is still so minuscule um again this is all relative because Apple uh said during this week's call that the size of their services business is growing so fast that it will be the size of a Fortune 100 company next year which is incredible when you think about it but it also shows the difference between the halves and the Have Nots because apple is such a big company that this Services Revenue when compared to what the iPhone does for them is a drop in the bucket it really Apple's quarterly earnings are all iPhone that's really what it is the mac and the iPad yeah whatever but as the iPhone goes so does Apple and this quarter was 40.4 Million are you eating no yes Jes look I live a very busy lifestyle okay I eat when I can anyhow uh the average selling price of the iPhone dropped uh to under $600 uh this last quarter and that's really as a result of the um success of the iPhone SE uh which has sold more than Apple expected they they don't break down by unit but um certainly um the iPhone SE has driven down the average selling price but the margins remain strong um coming in at 38% on the quarter which was a little better than they had expected on on Wall Street yeah but yeah the services revenues last quarter grew % um and they expect to continue growing and it's a big part of Apple's business but it's just not going to move the needle like the iPhone does on the uh on the iPhone uh on SE thing I I was looking at taking a look at the SEC filing the 10q I noticed that um I it's not like a huge Watermark or anything but I noticed that the iPhone fell below 60% of uh total revenue for the first time since I think uh just December quarter 2014 huh interesting so I mean not not you know I mean it usually hovers around 603 I think it got up to like 67% or something but mhm it's kind of you know it's in the 50s now it's going back down maybe it'll be only half of Apple's um uh money-making product line in in the near future who knows I mean you know they announced this week that they reached a billion iPhones sold that they did and that is that is a incredible achievement but I mean they are selling so many iPhones and at $600 a pop I mean people talk about what is going to be the next thing for Apple what is going to be their next product I don't think that it's possible to create a product that will sell that many at that price I mean computers uh have not been that big um certainly wearables are not going to get that big no car is going to be that big uh the amount of money that's bringing in the sheer volume of phones that are being sold and apple will continue to sell um is kind of an insurmountable thing if you're looking for the next big thing I think you're looking wrong I think you know the iPhone was certainly a great product that came around at the right place right time I don't think it would be uh very very difficult to have a device come out a new a new category of device uh that would be as big as the iPhone I I don't I would be shocked if they were able to do something like that the iPhone is a once in a-lifetime type of device Apple glasses come on man right think B I mean what what's your best case scenario right I mean iPad's peaked at like 25 million and a quarter which is pretty impressive considering as a PC replacement essentially uh the Mac has never hit more than like five 5.5 million I think I don't think they've ever hit six million on the Mac um the watch I mean what's the best you're going to do on the watch 10 15 million in a quarter you know if they could drop the watch to 200 bucks and you know integrate GPS you know in the next four five years I can see them selling like 15 million of those in a corner but are you really going to push beyond that is there a market can you get to a point where you're selling 75 million watches in a quarter well no I mean you have to create a market I mean they created they basically built the smartphone market there was a market before it but it wasn't a strong one they made the smartphone market I mean they'd have to make this is more investors are kind of thinking about um disruption but I think they to get to iPhone levels again they're going to have to go more towards Crea Market creation and I don't think that there's anything out there I mean of course I sound like the uh I sound like the the people in the early 1900s who said uh everything that's could be invented has already been invented but uh I mean I don't know the iPhone was based on mobile Computing and Communications and I don't know I don't see anything that can be so uh widely accepted and you know widely needed right now do you yeah I people like watches but they don't necessarily need a smartwatch per se if you had a SmartWatch with its own LTE radio um and it allowed you to leave your phone at home how often would you leave your phone at home would you still bring your phone with you well yeah no doubt because I mean it's for a smartphone it's not just a Communications device it's also a gaming device it's also a way for me to um you check in on news and stuff I just can't do that that kind of stuff with a 1.5in screen it's it's just not something that I want to do right I I can see that you know if I'm going out with friends or something like that um the biggest thing I think would be the detriment of leaving my phone at home would be losing the camera uh to take pictures and stuff like that if I'm going to an event or whatever um the texting of course you could replace that at least in very basic ways on a watch uh wearable um making phone calls you know getting alerts that kind of stuff um I think there's something liberating about leaving your phone at home and I'm excited for uh a potential future where my watch is not something so dependent on the iPhone and kind of something that can stand on its own you've been watching too much Dick Tracy my friend well you know I've been thinking about um cuz right now I'm running my iPhone 6s with iOS 10 for work purposes obviously so I can write about the betas and stuff and I miss using my iPhone SE um but I didn't want to put uh iOS 10 beta on there because the iPhone SE doesn't have 3D touch so I couldn't test out those features for for work purposes um but I've been thinking you know because I'll have to get the iPhone 7 when it comes out to review that for work and stuff like that too and I was thinking it would be nice just to be able to switch between phones and the watch prevents me from doing that uh you know if I didn't have the watch I could just pop out the SIM card iCloud keeps everything syn between devices and and apps and all that kind of stuff wouldn't really that be that big of a deal but there is no way currently to easily switch your watch from one phone to another you have to deair it from the phone which then backs it up to the phone then you have to pair it with the other phone and then you lose all the stuff you backed up on the other phone and it's like crazy um that's one of those things I feel like it's kind of like the early days of the iPad uh where you needed to connect it to a computer in order to set it up um which seems like the Dark Ages now when you think about it um but I think that's one of those things that uh in the next couple years hopefully they'll be able to address because it would be nice like you think about this iPhone 7 plus coming out is going to have this really cool dual lens camera on it you know that's a really cool feature but I don't want to carry around a giant phone all the time it would be nice to if I had a phone that had those capabilities and I could use it on occasion that would be nice I I realized that we're talking about like insane nerdy luxury stuff here of owning multiple phones and all that but you know I think it's all in best in Apple's best interest to be able to sell devic more devices why not I mean you can uh how many what is is there a Max to how many watches you can pair with one phone because I know they obviously expanded that to Beyond one right but is there is there a cap on that I have no idea I I have not tried yeah I don't know I do that they've made it a lot easier um uh with watch S3 um like for example you go on there and it shows your watch with the current face on it and it has the case design around the outside of it so you can very very quickly tell if you have multiple watches which one is which and then you can switch between them and that's one of those things where I could see like for example um let's say that a new watch comes out this year you you already own the stainless steel one right so let's say a new watch comes out this year and it's got GPS and you really want that uh but you want to keep your stainless steel watch because it still works works and maybe you're going out for a nice night wearing a suit or something and it matches better um I could easily see a scenario where somebody keeps last year's watch and then buys this year's and they use them for two different purposes you might want to get the cheapest model just to get GPS you might want to keep the stainless steel one because it looks nicer um so yeah that ability to switch between watches uh makes sense so why not give me the same ability to switch between phones true they'd have to do a lot of uh I think well the for one thing the watch would have to be much more autonomous right they'd have to yeah which is kind of what they're moving to but very slowly um it's battery and processing power really yeah yeah and also I think uh maybe authentication and security I think they're possibly worried about that the the implications of um the watch you know being able to connect to multiple devices and being authentic icated on multiple devices is kind of scary for them so here's a question for you Apple likes to introduce um technology on one device and then gradually bring it to others we we've seen that many times um one of the big features that was introduced in the Apple watch and eventually came to other devices was force touch known as 3D touch on the phone do you think that the first place that we will get an ins screen touch ID is on the iPhone or on the watch I would think the more logical thing would be for the watch obviously since there's like zero screen real estate yeah um but I don't know I mean I from what I've seen uh as far as you know other companies and startups and stuff that technology is is not I it's kind of thick it's not something that would fit well in a space constrained device like the watch but theoretically I would I would probably want it in watch right I mean it's is it their only current device that does not have Touch ID Mobile it is right I think so um in terms of mobile I mean unless you want to count an iPod or something no iPod they still sell those who needs that yeah so it is coming I I could I would I would uh I would think that you I think we heard rumors about it being integrated into the uh digital digital crown there's some space in there right I mean it's kind of Dead Space yeah that would be a very interesting way of doing it I think because it's so small the scan area of the finger would be tiny I don't know if that would hurt the accuracy of it probably I mean they could enlarge the the digital Crown a little bit maybe I don't know I mean I think they might get a good read on that uh from that or maybe stick it on the side somewhere um with that ridiculous side button that is finally getting good use now yeah it's so much better than watchos 3 it's awesome oh God contacts cont and Apple pay two two things one one pretty useless for me which is contacts on Apple watch and yeah Apple pay well it's not it's not widely available where I live so um that that button got little to no use with uh os1 and os2 did you see there was a rumor that we actually passed on it wasn't a rumor it was a patent of adding the digital Crown to to an iPad and I was like what the entire purpose of the digital Crown is scrolling and being able to view content um and I do that all the time if I'm doing something on my watch and I'm reading something or flipping through it you just instinctively scroll with the crown because it's easier less movement and also you aren't obscuring the content but the nice thing about having an iPad with all that real estate is you are not obscuring the content when you're touching the screen there's plenty of room there it would be there would be no use for that even on an iPhone point I mean there's been bunch of patents about digital Crown I think I saw one um that also allowed it to be used with like a a laptop which is I mean ridiculous it' be it would be akin to having multiple touchpads on and one that only works in uh what two Dimensions or one dimension actually one thing that did come out this week though that we've heard a few times that um it sounds plausible to me although I will'll wait to see how it's implemented is uh the idea that the home button on this year's iPhone won't move it'll actually uh simulate the feeling of a click much like the force touch trackpad does on a MacBook Pro yeah I could definitely see that and a 12-in Macbook I could see it but you would need a very tiny localized motor in the home button actually to make it feel like you pressed it actually well yeah uh but I mean they they did a really good job simulating the the click with the um Force touch pad right it's incredible it's absolutely incredible yeah so um Victor was using this MacBook for a year and didn't realize that didn't click that's how good it is that that's good stuff but then again I will say though it is a little um uh when you go back to a trackpad that clicks you can definitely feel the difference right if you go back you're like oh this kind of moves and it it just feels different it's one of those things where when you move forward to the force touch trackpad you don't really notice it but when you move back you notice it yes it's your brain man playing tricks on you I I think the forc to touch trackpad is absolutely incredible I think it's one of the the most ingenious uh things that Apple has done in in the last five years frankly um it's very impressive and I think that if they can uh get something that works just as well on the home button on an iPhone I'm all for it but I remain SK skeptical until I try it because that's one of those you got to feel it to know it things and I was very skeptical about the force touch trackpad um and I'm a big fan so I have faith in apple to do it right but it is a very interesting idea uh that really paves the way for thinner phones uh waterproof phones and also potentially just getting rid of the home button entirely yeah I don't know if they're going to get rid of the button anytime soon but I could just I could see them modifying it the the assembly itself is is quite big right uh when everything else in the phone is getting so small I mean they're going to get rid of the headphone jack supposedly um and that's kind of that's super old technology um and and the and the button is kind of the way that Apple implements it is kind of in a kind of a weird place right it's right above the lightning connector uh and when you're slimming down phones there's really no I mean you can't really play with um there's not really much leeway in terms of where you can cram components and stuff especially on the peripheral of of a peripheries of a device where they have like speakers and microphones and all that kind of good stuff so I don't know I I I could definitely see the capacitive home button coming but I don't think it will be this year h does it feel to you like we have the full picture of what this phone is going to be I mean there's a story this week saying it's going to be called the iPhone 6 SE the the general consensus is that it won't be called the iPhone 7 because it's not a big enough upgrade uh but it feels like something about this feels like it has a piece missing I can't put my finger on it I don't really know what it is we we know what the phone's going to look like we have a general idea of what it's going to do but I it something just doesn't feel right am I wrong there yeah I think it comes down to the sources of uh of these leaks um to me it seems like there's leaks that are coming out that have been floating around for I don't know almost a year and then there's stuff that's more recent right and right people keep re-reporting and re and regurgitating the stuff like it's new leaks which kind of muddies the situation like is the phone going to have a headphone jack or not is it going to have Smart connection like some of these things we know Apple makes a huge number of iterations of a product before taking its production so you know what if these early leaks are some of the Prototype models that have you know that were scrapped six months ago but they just keep popping up in the news kind of confusing people then again then there's you remember Apple uh used to uh make no uh phony prototypes just you know throw people all the scent they haven't done that in a while because you know who cares when you're selling 40 million iPhones you don't need to be so protective over your over your product um but they might I don't know maybe they're doing that again who knows yeah but I I do agree there's there's something that we're not we're not seeing yet or there's something that Apple has in the works that I just we just don't we can't put a finger on it I guess exactly what it is what do you think I mean there you know at this point we know the phone's going to look largely the same it's going to ditch the headphone jack this this home button rumor is is iffy but we'll see if it pans out um it's expected it's going to have the same screen technology same general look all that kind of stuff I mean but there are so many things that they could do either on a software front or in terms of proprietary Hardware that we just won't know until they make the announcement like what if um and this is obviously extremely wishful thinking uh but what if the chip in the next iPhone is some sort of huge breakthrough in terms of battery life um obviously screen technology is still one of those things that is going to be a hindrance to battery life but what if they somehow manage to you know squeeze a bigger battery in because they got rid of the headphone jack and all that and essentially double the iPhone I mean I don't know if that's the case but that feels like one of those things that we may not even know up until the announcement and the kind of you know uh Little Secret they can keep hitting up their sleeve until they start shipping the product yeah it reminds me of when they uh launched um 3D touch you know on the 6s I mean no one really saw that Happ and they integrated like a a full haptics feedback system into an iPhone which is not something small I mean they well we knew that the phone was was going to have 3D touch we just didn't know what it was going to do yeah well I'm talking about like the haptic system the uh what do they call it not force feedback uh the taptech engine tap Tech Engine yeah so I mean it's not just like a redesigned vibration motor it's a it's a complete Standalone system that they developed on their own produced on their own it's not something small so I mean you're saying something like that maybe could be in the works something inside the phone that uh only um the producer of that part and I guess late later in the production stage the whoever's assembling it foxcon uh would know about but even if they're assembling it you know it may not look that much different or whatever um it's that marriage of hardware and software that makes Apple unique we knew that the phone was going to have this taptic engine and 3D touch last year but we didn't really know how Apple was going to implement it or what its value was going to be now you can make the argument that a year later we don't really know because not very well used D I use it at least once maybe twice a week I am using it more on iOS 10 but I still do not I only use an iOS 10 because it forces me to I do not use it um for the multitasking thing I never got used to that swiping from the left side and pressing um I still double tap the home button for multitasking well it it's not um it's not a consistent experience like you might it once but the next time you do it it you'll you don't know scroll back in Safari or something it's not uh it's not well implemented like it's other um it's other uses uh like on the app stuff the app shortcuts I guess would be useful but uh it basically it's just like an app launcher right it doesn't really do anything you need to go into the app itself then you know well with iOS 10 now you get widgets so yay widgets so the same widgets that show up on the lock screen you can get from an app by just for uh Force pressing 3D touching on it um and then uh it'll pop up whatever data um so you don't have to actually open the app I don't I don't know how useful that is I haven't really used that feature with the with 3D touch but uh you know that's one of those things where the software is going to continue to come together and the hardware capability is there and maybe with this next iPhone there's some sort of software breakthrough that we just won't know until Apple announces it and we can't know and that software breakthrough may require Hardware in the phone yeah yeah apple like to do that and we won't see it until the very well it'll be obscured in the last beta but maybe recently they've been pretty good about um kind of fiing out that stuff in the in the late betas yeah I think the most exciting thing dug up from the beta really is the dark mode UI that people have found you know what that means it's time for OLED probably not till next year but yeah next year man what do you think they'll call this year's phone I don't think they'll call it the S I don't think they'll bring the SE into the picture because unless they unless they announce a second phone that no one is talking about and that will be the flagship and then the all the leaks and stuff that we've been seeing are the iPhone 6 SE which will launch alongside it but that would mean Apple will have four phones four new phones this year which is probably not something that's going to happen but I don't think it'll be the SE I could see them calling it something else other than the seven because it isn't really a design change I go both ways on that I feel like they could just because I mean it's just branding who cares they could just stubbornly stick with seven and say all these changes that we've made make for an entirely new I mean you know the marketing you can hear Phil Schiller saying it now right all these changes we made make for an entirely new phone experience uh you've never experienced anything like this uh this is a completely new generation of product iPhone 7 I can see them doing that yeah what if they go I mean they could go seven this year and even if they do redesign next year they can call it the eight they don't have to go seven s kind of like you know iPhone uh to iPhone 3G you know Etc yeah well one of the rumors about next year's phone was that the new redesign is only going to apply to the 5.5 in model yeah I I could see that too but only in only in the case that they are um constrained on probably supplies of the OLED panels which I mean you know suppliers are still right now just trying to get their facilities up and running so they can handle something like that um uh we did Cover I think LG how much money did they Infuse into their one and a half billion or something yeah yeah everybody's prepping for these OLED screens they want to expand production so that they can get in on Apple's supply chain but the biggest olded manufacturer in the world is Samsung you got to think they're going to win most of the orders there oh yeah I'm sure but even so I didn't we cover uh someone's estimates as to um how much of the world supp OLED Supply Apple would devour if they were to implement to OLED Green in their Flagship product I think it was something we did have an IHS uh forecast today basically saying that Apple making an OLED phone will be the Tipping Point they think that most phones shipped uh by 2020 will be u o OLED screens overtaking LCD it' be kind of hard because Apple's going to Corner the market right and all that stuff there no one's going to want to I mean if you have a choice of selling to to Apple and cheli you're you're going to pick Apple I mean that's the same well but the idea is you know between all the companies out there sharp Samsung um you know all all these LG all the display makers ramp up production then they can you know meet a global demand for think so I don't know man I think we I think uh I think the OLED Supply is a little overestimated by people not in the industry well that would one reason for Apple to only go with the high-end model for it um that's that's what I I was thinking but I don't know man cuz I don't want to buy a 5.5 in iPhone and this year I might have to because the the camera camera is compelling enough I mean it's more than Optical image stabilization right that's exactly what I'm thinking because you know how much I hate these big phones but if I want to get cuz I love the idea of having a really nice camera on me and that's really the most exciting upgrade that I get in every Year's phone is how much better the camera is you know I'm shooting 4K video now and all that um you know having that big phone kills me but I could see myself in certain situations wan to use the big phone for the camera yeah yeah I tried the uh 6s Plus for I don't know a month or so this past cycle and I I couldn't it's just too big it feels like I'm it it feels like I'm carrying I mean it's a fablet so it feels like I'm carrying not a cell phone with me mhm it's more than a cell phone that I'm taking with me it's not something that I just pick up and walk out the door with I don't know it doesn't fit in my pockets you know I wear board do you like the size of the 6s uh yeah I mean I like the screen I got used to it it's the format of the of the of the SC is perfect for my hand size and pant pocket size and all that good stuff but um I think the benefits of having a larger screen uh outweigh the negatives of the overall large form factor how many Macs do you own including ones I don't use yes uh like four oh including the one uh five maybe how many iPhones do you own oh God six or seven maybe see this is what I'm saying you know to to switch between these devices or to have them available um I I don't think would would be that crazy of an idea to make it easier to switch between phones especially with the watch uh I'm would love to see it this fall I don't think we're going to see it unfortunately but um I think they've announced everything they're going to announce at least with respect to iOS 10 and watch OS but uh I mean certainly I have a couple Max I have a few phones so yeah I like to go back and rock the 4S for a while I love the design of the uh the SE um and it just feels good in your hand and uh it I it's it's the the shape and size of it are so much so that I don't even feel like I need to use a case with it whereas I have to put a case on My Success um you just can't use it one-handed uh very well you can't grip it and that that's the main issue for me yeah and this and this the six series design is very slippery with its curved curved edges and whatnot yeah I but I mean there are cases where I could see myself going yeah I'd like to have a plus siiz phone the camera um you know if I'm watching video on the go for example and I don't want to bring an iPad with me or something um you know a lot of times I'll be out in the back of a cab or at a restaurant I'm streaming a sports game um and you know that would be a great opportunity have a bigger screen so you can see more of it also the extra battery life you get from the bigger form factor is great too yeah so I mean there there are a lot of advantages that even I admit to as somebody who doesn't like big phones um I think I'm I'm in a position where this new phone upgrade coming out this year uh you know I if I'm just getting this if it's if everything that we've heard rumored thus far is all that it is and that's it I'll probably just return the phone after I review it I don't really see a need to keep that but I hate to say stuff like that because I don't know and nothing's been announced and it's just so presumptive and stupid to say that never know man the uh the new camera might be so incredible I can't well especially on the on the smaller model the the 4.7 in model if it doesn't have the Dual lens thing I I can't see what kind of an upgrade would be so significant that I would have to keep that phone especially ditching the headphone jack and all the other concessions and stuff that's why I think there's got to be some especially for that 4.7 in model you know if if the SMART connector and the Dual lenses are going to be exclusive to the plus model that 4.7 I look at and it's like maybe it's a big upgrade if somebody has like a 5S but for six even I don't know I think a lot of people are going to skip this upgrade well a lot of people are skipping the success upgrade which is not good that's why sales are down year over year so although you know it's a maturing market and not a lot of Need for um the phone and tough year-over-year comparisons and all that you know you can make all the excuses you want but the reality is they're selling less phones than they were last year Samsung's phone sales are up watch out guys um but uh one last bit of iPhone rumor um who was it that reported oh Digi times reported on the iris scanning technology that is potentially coming in 2018 what do you think about that I I'm kind of uh dubious that Apple would move away from the tried andrue Touch ID I mean Touch ID is so great because you don't think about it it's not something that it's not like the old fingerprint sensors that you swipe it's a unconscious decision that you make when you turn on your phone you just you turn it on and you're authenticating at the same time um Iris recognition is not at that level yet you would have to probably hold your phone up to your face I mean they they they've made purchases about you know face recognition companies and stuff that could help in this area but I don't think it's there yet what do you think I mean the technology isn't there yet but until somebody takes it there you know I mean you could always say that I I feel like um I like this rumor um and the reason I like it is because I don't think it has to replace touch idea I think it can be in tandem with it um for example there might be situations where it can't see your face or your eye and and you want to just use the the fingerprint sensor but vice versa there could be times where for example you're wearing gloves um anybody who lives anywhere that gets a cold winter knows that it's a big pain in the butt you're walking down the street you want to use your phone you got to take off your gloves your hands are freezing blah blah blah so um this is one of those things where I it makes a lot of sense um you could integrate this into Macs you could integrate this into iPad ads and watches and everything else uh uh imagine an Apple TV with some sort of a camera that did that too and this is technology that Apple's been interested in for a while um they uh in the when the first iPad was being worked on back in 2010 before it was released one of the earlier prototypes of it uh they toyed around with was a device that recognized your face and automatically presented your content to you when you picked it up uh it was seen by Apple as something that would be one device for the whole family as you said the technology was there and so they ended up just not doing it but they continue to be interested in that future and that idea and that is why they've purchase these facial recognition companies and that sort of stuff um and they presumably behind the scenes are still working toward that so I think some sort of facial Iris whatever secure recognition is an inevitability whether it comes out two years from now 5 years from now 10 years from now you know we will see uh but I don't think that it necessarily has to replace Touch ID I think it can be used in tandem with it um and make for a very compelling and convenient uh use case how long until we get the stories about your phone is watching you I mean don't we already have them well I mean even even more so we don't really see that much about Apple I mean they're so high on the high horse with their uh with their customer privacy stuff uh we don't really I mean you can get a Samsung phones now and stuff that'll unlock with your face that's like one of those features of Android I think actually it's built into the operating system but it's not terribly secure yeah also I'm not really sure I know that everyone's iris is unique but how what kind of resolution do you need to see the differences I feel like it would you know the the regular cameras on an iPhone probably won't be able to discern those minor minor differences well and and potentially you could have uh you know one of the rumors about next year's phone is that the OLED to screen is the screen is going to hide the camera the FaceTime camera behind it um you could in theory have more complex camera arrays included in the phone um you know because for aesthetic purposes you may not want that now but if they could hide it behind the screen and have small enough components potentially they could do something like that yeah the per pixel uh technology of OLED really opens the door to a whole bunch of new uh possibilities I remember there was a uh there's a patent that apple had I think it was like a I think the pixels in the display also doubled as um light sensors which were you know basically cameras so it had like all these the screen itself was a camera it wasn't it didn't hide a camera every pixel in the display was part of the camera so it was that's awesome kind of like blowing up the the um like a like a SEO sensor to the scale of like a 5.5 inch display so I could see that that' be that'd be interesting Victor and I talked about this a few weeks ago where if you're talking to somebody and you look just to the left or to the right of their eyes like in person you can tell even though you're you know you might only be looking you know six inches to the left of their face people can tell um even from a distance and it's kind of disconcerting and you have that same thing with uh technology now whether you're on a Mac or you're on an iPhone or whatever it's very personal but when you're doing a FaceTime call you're still looking just above their head or below in the case of the camera the little below where the camera is and that seems like a very Apple thing to do to address that issue and to put the camera in the screen where you're looking so that you're looking right at the person when you talk to them that's that level of human intimacy uh that apple is always trying to achieve and that seems like a very Apple thing to do yeah well personally I look through people when I talk to them so yeah no but yeah I see what you're saying it's uh it's definitely it's definitely something they would want to it's yeah not just for an aesthetic reason for a communication reason for that connection man yeah definitely that's something I could see them doing and I and I would not be surprised uh the rumor is it'll be a next year's phone and that would not surprise me at all shifting gears no pun intended pun intended to uh Apple car um there's a a couple reports this week on Apple's project Titan the uh first being Apple bringing Bob Mansfield back into the fold to potentially help out with their Automotive initiative so uh mansfi has been out of the picture for um you know since what 2012 or after 2012 when he announced that he was leaving or uh you know stepping down from his post as as um Hardware Chief um now he's back has he has he been gone this whole time or has he just been you know kind of floating around ccino helping here and there I think he was a adviser right to Tim Cook yeah he he he's had an interesting trajectory where he announced his retirement uh it did not go over well internally this is back in 2012 um Apple really kind of assessed the situation and said oh we can't have this so they apparently threw a boatload of cash at Mansfield to keep him around um he came back like three months later as an adviser to Tim Cook um he's no longer a part of the executive team but he has been with apple in some mysterious capacity um for the last uh four or so years um there's some belief that you know he's had hands and products that have come along including the Apple watch and uh in a shakeup um of the Personnel on the uh so-called project Titan team Mansfield is said to have been handed the keys so to speak um to the project as of this year um and then you pair that with the uh news that was uh broken today that the former CEO of qnx uh blackberry's uh uh operating system maker um gentleman by the name of Dan Dodge was also hired by Apple um which is a big deal because this is a guy who uh knows a thing or two and pretty much wrote the book on uh these um integrated operating systems uh that run in devices like cars and stuff like that so um the team is kind of coming together and it seems like in the last few months the rumors have been more focused on the software and development side of it than on the actual physical building of a car and one of the things that was presented today was Apple can keep their options open by focusing on the software side of it by um potentially maybe partnering with a manufacturer and being the brains in their car rather than building their own I believe the expectation is Apple wants to own the whole kit and uh will uh want to build the car as well but that's a very uh difficult thing to do considering the cost that has to go into it and the uh Decades of experience that automakers have that Apple would have to be would have to catch up on but people said the same thing about a watch too and here we are it's a little different though there a heavy industry and uh I don't know a smartwatch is kind of an Apple's wheelhouse right it's a portable computer car is not a however however much Tech analysts say that a car is basically a computer on Wheels it it's not it's it's a heavy industry that you know it these companies have hundreds of years of collective experience some have over 100 years themselves in making Automobiles and um it's not really something that you just step into uh whether I mean you can throw a bunch of cash at it you can hire the best but until you you know get a product out there see how it's received get it you know Road tested and all that kind of good stuff it's just not it's not it's not it's incredibly difficult I mean I mean this thing before it ships it's going to have to be pre-announced at a level that that Apple has never done before um you think about the iPhone it was announced in January of 2007 it launched that June uh you think about the iPad it was announced in January and launched I think March um you look at the Apple watch it was announced in September didn't launch till the next April right uh you're with a product like this to have it as you said Road tested to have the certifications to have the I mean you're talking about a self-driving vehicle this isn't something you can just throw on the road there's permits and all kinds of extensive testing that have to be done and that can't be done you know hidden in a van a mapping van or something this is something that is going to have to be uh pre-announced potentially years in advance uh in order to get all the proper permitting and stuff to get to Market I believe right and also uh I think it's uh people vastly underestimate the work that goes into a car it's not just an engine and you know uh a drivetrain and these things these things are platforms that a lot of companies use for 20 or more years on the on the same car they change the skin of it but the underlying mechanics are are largely the same like you know app uh Ford's uh you know Fox platform they've used they used that they no longer use it but they used it um um you know for I don't know how many years 20 years these things are huge Investments and they take not only years of um you know aftermarket tweaking and stuff but uh you know they they work on these things for decades and then they launch the platform and then they use it for another couple decades and it's not something that you just cycle every year let me play devil's advocate here when you when you're reviewing a car testing a car driving a car reading about a car whatever what do people talk about they talk about the handling they talk about the um the the smoothness of the ride they talk about uh you know the acceleration um this is the 0 to 60 argument that I oh God but but that's a big deal you know how does the car feel when when it's accelerating when it's breaking when it's turning those are so there there you know the car becomes an extension of you between your feet and your hands the control of it and all that there's a feeling on a car you know whether it's low to the ground to give you a sense of speed or high up to uh to make you feel safe on the road in your big SUV or whatever so much of that stuff won't apply with a self-driving Apple car the user experience becomes completely different because you're not the one controlling the wheel and you know maybe we're getting too far ahead of ourselves here because for the foreseeable future you're going to have to remain behind the wheel for safety purposes but I mean there's eventually going to be a day where not only um does the car drive itself but it'll be illegal for you to drive a car because the robots will be safer than we are you know um but I think that that is a big part of it that that existing car companies um maybe don't have the expertise that Apple has in terms of a user experience um and area where they could potentially uh shake up the market in big ways MH yeah well that would be uh that would be a thing wouldn't it you think I mean a different it's a completely different experience if you're not driving yeah I look forward to that day although I don't know I don't know 100 years from now it'll be a novelty to be able to go somewhere and drive a car and it'll be like a closed off area like bumper cars or something it's going to be like Demolition Man you're going to have the the old gas guzzler done and Taco Bell wins the food Wars exactly but also um interesting to see people walk back their predictions on Apple car hardware and uh kind of saying you know hey we always said that they're working on car software and and only maybe Hardware I cannot see a situation where apple is making the brains for multiple manufacturers of cars maybe one company but I mean the the marriage between especially in something like a self-driving car I mean gez this is not like a removable brain that you can just plug into a car and make it work there are so many factors here uh at play that it would make it very difficult for for Apple to you know be the brains and a Ford and a and a uh and a Maserati you know like it's just it's a completely different Market it's a completely different I I I think that if they were going to partner with another company you know say BMW or whatever it would be that would be the partnership and that would be it yeah kind of like Google right I mean that's kind of the road they're trying to go down although they have they have multiple multiple uh irons in the fire at this point with their Google car but yeah the partnership doesn't make a lot of sense for many reasons but as as you said just the hundreds of years of collective experience of automobile that apple does not have um that and going beyond the things we were talking about in terms of the experience but the actual functionality and and uh reliability of the vehicle I mean you know modern cars are pretty great in terms of how infrequently they break down and how infrequently you blow a tire but it still does happen that is most definitely true well that about wraps it up for this week um that was episode 79 of the Apple Insider podcast again with me this week was Neil Hughes managing editor you can find him at appleinsider.com and follow his ramblings on Twitter at thisis Neil I'm Mikey Campbell I can also be found on appleinsider.com as for Twitter you can find me at Mikey Campbell 81 have a good one he\n"