**A Conversation with the Creators of Hot Hardware**

We were fortunate enough to have a conversation with the creators of Hot Hardware, a popular site that brings together enthusiasts and professionals in the world of technology. Our discussion covered a range of topics, from their approach to hosting contests to their efforts to engage with their community.

The creators of Hot Hardware explained that they try to keep their contests simple, often requiring only a few likes or shares on social media platforms like Facebook and Google+. However, they encourage participants to engage with their content by commenting in the comments section and participating in discussions in their forum. This approach helps to build a sense of community around the site and brings attention to new members who may not have been aware of it otherwise.

One of the highlights of our conversation was the announcement that Hot Hardware is giving away a beautiful machine from Cyber Power, a brand known for providing high-quality PC hardware. The creators explained that they are excited to partner with Cyber Power on this contest, which will give one lucky winner the opportunity to take home this amazing piece of equipment.

The creators also discussed their efforts to promote Hot Hardware and bring it to a wider audience. They emphasized the importance of social media in reaching new followers and encouraged fans to follow them on Twitter (@HotHardware), YouTube (hothardware vids), Facebook (facebook.com/hotHardware), and Google+ (plus.google.com/+hotHardware). Additionally, they mentioned that they offer newsletters to their subscribers, which allows fans to stay up-to-date with the latest news and content.

We also had the opportunity to thank our friends at GFQ for hosting this episode of the show. The creators expressed their gratitude to Andrew, who is running the board today and making their lives easier by handling the technical aspects of the production.

In a lighthearted moment, one of the creators jokingly mentioned that he sometimes forgets to thank his wife, Mak, for putting up with him when it comes to remembering important details. However, he also joked about flubbing the thank-you line last week and mistakenly calling his friend "dobs" instead of "Andrew."

**About Hot Hardware**

Hot Hardware is a popular site that brings together enthusiasts and professionals in the world of technology. With a focus on providing high-quality content and engaging with their community, they have built a loyal following among fans of technology and innovation.

To learn more about Hot Hardware and stay up-to-date with the latest news and content, be sure to check out their website (hothardware.com) or follow them on social media platforms like Twitter (@HotHardware), YouTube (hothardware vids), Facebook (facebook.com/hotHardware), and Google+ (plus.google.com/+hotHardware).

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: encoming up on 2 and half Geeks we'll be talking about tiny tiny PCS a massive 4k monitor contest details and a heck of a lot more rock in the benchmarks we're going to up the Annie a little bit processing power I kind of understand this welcome back to TF Geeks I'm AA zakar alongside Dave alella Marco chapeta I've now just made them one person because I didn't even say and so now you are together uh how are you both doing let's let's start with Dave how you doing I'm doing good doing good I'm uh clearly um a little little less than Adept at tweeting this very moment but um other than that I'm I'm just fine thank you and you I am terrific today because today is Sunday I we're recording this on Sunday I've had a pleasant day Marco have you had a pleasant day I have had a pleasant day I'm I'm doing good and and your intro reminds me of a story from elementary school that's only going to make me laugh but I'm going to tell it anyway the way you turn Dave and I into one person it just it reminded me I have a kid in my had a kid in my elementary school from kindergarten through 8th grade I'm still friends with him now his name was Walter and he had an older brother who was also in the same school called Frank and these two looked like twins you could not tell them apart they looked exactly the same so when we were messing with him and we' tease him we used to call him Franken Walter and he would be so pissed but he just reminded me of that story so I thought I tell it I like that I like that Franken Walter is awesome red it's kind of like roses are red violets are blue I'm schizophrenic and so am I no it's nothing like that Franken Walter you know is also one of uh it's one of Marco security answers you know like childhood best friend Franken wal Walter it's my it's my pin it's my pin at my at the ATM Franken Walter yeah the longest pin ever all right let's actually let talk about let's talk about what we're here to talk about Hardware because that's what we're gonna do today Dave you've got an assus Chrome box small form factor PC review up right now it's a little tiny PC it's actually it's running on Intel an Intel processor uh but it's it's really cheap what could you tell us about the Asus Chrome box it's uh it's fairly cheap um and it is running on an Intel core I3 the the model I got was a a core I3 dual core has well their their fourth generation core series architecture here it is right here it is a tiny little brick of of Joy uh 5 in square by 1.7 in thick and as you can see a couple uh usb3 ports here on the back side is where all the action is two more usb3 ports let me get it there oh that's much better okay and gigabit Ethernet HDMI and what am I missing um oh display port and uh of course the power jack so as you can see real tiny little um small form factor PC um actually really nice design nothing nothing crazy in terms of um construction it's a plastic flat flat black matte finish um but a nice very quiet small form factor PC and it is driven by the Chrome OS um so the the proverbial um Google uh Chrome OS in a browser model uh you are um working with that in this implementation and um but but actually very quiet um underload can't even hardly hear it you have to put your ear up to it to hear it um and so it it has a lot of you know horsepower and capability 4 gig of RAM 16 gig SSD not a ton of capacity but it's very quick uh and a small package you just have to work within the confines of that uh Google Chrome OS that um you know uh takes some getting used to but um but I enjoyed it now does it seem like a serviceable machine to have I mean if you're going to get a a chrome box or a Chromebook or anything running Chrome OS it seems like the apps are pretty limited is there do you think there's room in your house for a chrome box or anybody else's you know it's interesting um there are a lot of usage models you can think of for this type of device um certainly in and in the Enterprise and in education where Google apps Google Docs sheets slides all those Google cloud service office and productivity apps that that Google offers are available and and um really can sort of satisfy y uh the mainstream sort of basic functionality to get work and education done um and of course you've got internet browsing capabilities but yeah when you get on the on the on the Chrome Store um you're talking about a situation where most of the apps are are online or connected apps where you literally you think you're installing something but really what you're installing is a shortcut on the device to a website and that you know website then provides that service for that app that you're you know you're you're looking for so for example you know you can jump in Netflix Spotify Pandora all these places take you right to the to the website um it's been qualified by Google to run in Chrome and everything's functional and it's all good and it just works um but it's a it's a web driven interface there are a few offline apps um that you can you can run in offline mode you don't need an internet connection for and certainly the the Google um office and productivity apps are part of that suite for example where you can you know you can run in offline mode uh Google also by the way gives you 100 Gig of um uh Drive Google Drive cloud storage with uh this you know with their license for for Chrome device whether it be a Chrome book uh or in this case uh the Chrome the Chrome box actually I'm not sure that's standard let me let me qualify that for every CH Chrome device it's certainly standard for the Chrome box it's in in in the bundle but um yeah yeah you know the other the other usage model in the home is as a sort of you know utility computing device whether it be in the in the kitchen or in the living room or maybe as a family PC as a home theater PC it's certainly got the capability um if you are good with um you know running things in a browser and and here you're talking about again whether it be YouTube Netflix uh Amazon Prime any of those video Services they're they're all available plus you get the internet and all of the you know Internet connected services that are out there that run in Chrome it's just not a full home theater PC experience where you could you know maybe install like Steam and download some games that might be able to run on on this by the way uh you've got Intel integrated Graphics here HD 4400 Graphics in our core I3 driven model there are some other lower-end CPUs from Intel and even some uh high end skes I think as well um but you know it's I think it's a fairly capable device and for what you'd use it for maybe you're not going to have your your media player of choice and and things of that nature you know real hardcore home theater PC Buffs are going to find this to be limited because of that but I mean it can get the job done for for a good portion of uh the market as a home theater PC a family computer um or certainly an education of the Enterprise for S basic productivity stuff anytime I see these small form factur PCS the first thing I always think of is home theater applications just because they will fit in in that space really nicely and they don't look like an isore uh but I don't I don't think it would be something like I would use because I'm all about networked video and that's not exactly the same experience but there there's another uh small form factur PC that seems like it might be a better or more suitable kind of solution to someone like me and it's a cyber power PC Zeus mini uh I is it 780 this is a a uh what this thing I think double the price of the Chrome box but it's a real full PC right it's more like five or six times the price of the Chrome box but something just dawned on me before I talked about the Zeus Dave does that little box have a a card reader on it yeah it certainly does and actually I think we moved on a little bit a little bit too quickly there has a has a flash card reader uh for expansion has those USB ports for external storage and certainly it will pick up uh you know network attack storage as well um so you know yeah again I think it's about the media players that might not be available to you and how you might manage your files but you can get media into this device and use it I I was actually I'm asking for the card slot because you could actually you could probably boot open Al XBMC right from an SD card and have dual boot with Chrome OS or open Al if you want to stream stuff from your network just something that popped in idea I like that would be nice I haven't been able to get into the BIOS yet to to trigger where it could boot from but yeah theoretically you know what's also going to be interesting for this thing is what the what the open source Community does for it as well could be some good stuff coming down the pipe all right onto onto the Zeus mini um I I have to run through the specs to to give you the full impact of this machine so the Zeus mini that we reviewed was powered by an Intel Core i7 4770k so the fastest Haswell processor out there it had an EVGA superclocked gForce GTX 780 so super high-end graphics card 16 gigs of gskill RAM um clocked at 1866 so fairly high in memory 120 gig Samsung SSD plus a 2 tbte hard drive for bulk of storage a gigabyte Z87 based mother motherboard with with built-in Wi-Fi uh Cooler Master liquid cooling uh slot loading DVD burner uh plus a 80 plus certified 650 wat power supply from air sounds like a really high-end machine and cyber power crammed all of that into a chassis that's only 4.4 in wide 13 in tall and 17.4 in deep so you're talking about a high-end gaming PC in a box you know maybe maybe double the width of a small pizza box it's pretty crazy the kind of horsepower they fit into this guy uh but since they crammed everything into that small package I did notice that in in your uh review of it there there was some complaints when it comes to servicing this this machine because they kind of crammed everything together uh yes and no so one of the great things that cyber power PC does with this box is they use all off-the-shelf components um it's a it's a standard motherboard standard graphics card standard drives um everything about it can use offthe shelf offthe shelf components the the case is custom from cyber power though so accessing some of the parts is as simple as removing a side panel and you know popping out a few screws or a brace here and there Seth our editor who did the full review found that if you wanted to access the drives though there's tons of disassembly required it's sort of uh you know a negative for the machine I personally wouldn't hold you know wouldn't give it too many demerits for that because to to cram all this Hardware in a box that small you have to make some sort of concessions and if that means having to remove a few screws to upgrade it if you're ever going to upgrade a machine of this type I don't think that's a huge deal now in terms of pricing I think this is where people are going to go ooh that's a that's a little pricey so the Box we tested um was almost 1,900 bucks now you can go with lower-end configurations and get something cheaper or even go higher end and pay a little more um but this box is not cheap so you pay for that customization and the ability to use offshelf components um but it's a really high-end Machine Beautiful machine in a nice small form factor if you're looking for a small high-end machine this should definitely be on your short list yeah I saw the price started at 685 and that's what I was saying like it's like double but the the $1900 configuration you had uh performance was really solid from from what I what I've read is there any other any other notes about this uh diminutive PC uh yes so you mentioned performance was good obviously performance is going to be great with a a core i7 and SSD 16 gigs of RAM and a GTX 7 80 but more interestingly um if you like this machine stick around till the end of the podcast and I'm going to leave it at that ah little te yeah otherwise we don't have there's no reason to ever continue the podcast Marco that's what you're implying no I just want to make sure that if someone is particularly jazzed about this box they'll be particularly jazzed if they stick around all the way to the end particularly interesting interesting let's let's uh let's serve up our double dose of Dell products the first thing we got up is the Dell XPS 13 this is the 2014 version uh it's got a 13-inch screen touchcreen and I think it's it has an HD display is that right or is it over HD Dave no it's HD n it's it's 1080 full 1080 yep oh nice on a 13inch that's pretty cool uh so this is the XPS Line This is Dell's like I would say it's like not exact is this the top of the line right now because they used to have that weird DMO line that's gone now right yeah no this is uh this is the premium top shelf product so how was the XPS 13 the XPS 13 is uh it's a nice machine I actually took a look at it before we sent it on to our editor uh Jennifer Johnson who uh did the review for us um but I saw the previous version of this machine as well and in terms of you know the mechanical design Dell hasn't changed much there um with the exception of some new options and displays and and now um you know they had some lower res displays as well as the full 1920 x 1080p display that they have on the 2014 version uh you also get touch available to you now as well with Windows 8 and um really you know it it's it's a very nice premium notebook by Dell um it's sort of you know for me um in the in the top like two or three Ultrabooks in the 13inch form factor that I would probably consider to use myself sort of editor's choice if you will um this it would be the one carbon by Lenovo the XPS 13 and maybe one more that I'd throw in there trying to think of but um for me I'm I'm not quite as fond as um I am with the sharper edges in the Lenovo product as I am as with the the round edges in the in the XPS line but it is a very nice thin and if you like that rounded you know sort of contoured look uh in in the clamshell design it's it's really really well built you also get this carbon fiber Construction ction underneath and in the palmrest area it's a composite carbon fiber material and uh you know polymer carbon fiber composition um so you know very welld designed beautiful full HD display 350 NS of brightness 8001 contrast ratio we tested the version built on a core i7 4500 U with 8 gig of RAM and a 256 gig SSD so the thing scream through the benchmarks um integrated Intel HD 4400 Graphics there as well uh and so it it did it did very well and and um you know we've sort of come to expect in a certain Echelon of of ultra books this level performance and certainly it hit it um as tested here's the kicker we got the higher-end model with again 8 gig of RAM 256 gigs of hard drive 1649 uh 256 gig excuse me of SSD storage 1649 as well as that core i7 CPU so it wasn't a cheap configur uration you can configure it a little bit lower but we really liked it yeah this is a high-end machine so you're going to be paying a high-end price uh is would you even say to people to bother with a 1049 model because that's where it starts at but it seems like if I'm reading this right the touchcreen you have to add that as an option yeah you do um you it is it is a little bit of an upcharge um you know honestly I think for what you can get with Intel processors these days for Notebook Computing you could definitely save a few pesos uh and go with something less than a core i7 you know they've got some Core i5 models in the mix um and I think especially with the new Haswell architecture you're not sacrificing as much on the multimedia side because the graphics core is fairly similar across the SKS um you could definitely trim down and get a 128 gig SSD and save some money 4 gig of RAM probably especially with that SSD serving up your your storage um 4 gig ram probably isn't going to feel a whole lot different than 8 gig ram with Windows 8 unless you're doing some real heavy duty crunching Maybe video editing or what have you um on this machine so yeah absolutely you know considering the you know $9.99 you know price range SKS that are out there it's definitely an option um and uh you know something you might want to consider I think it's a great machine I think Del does a nice nice job with this machine it's um it's definitely a good value um the skew we tested is sort of the no compromise I Want It All skew uh for $649 and you get what you get or get what you pay for I should say you get what you get when you pay for it I guess that is true that's right yeah exactly let's talk we've got the uh the D Ultra sharp 4k monitor we've got to talk about this it's a 312 inch monitor running 4K resolution it's got similar styling it's got that rounded Corner thing going he's got that black and silver look Marco what what can you tell us about this what is it the up 3214 Q yes that is the model the Dell up 3214 Q uh Ultra HD monitor so I can tell you a lot about this because I've been messing around with with a few um of the 4K monitors that are available right now let me run through the specs quick um as you mentioned 4K display so 3840 pixels by 2160 pixels in a 31 and 1/2 in diagonal display so ultra high pixel density vers anything really that's been out there the last few years years this latest gen of 4K monitors takes the pixel density to a whole another level if you think about that it's 4 108p screens crammed into 31 and a half inches diagonal so to give you the kind an idea of the kind of clarity that these screens are capable of so this display is very similar to the to the Asus and sharp 4K the high-end 4K displays that have been uh out there for a little while it's using what's known as an an exop panel it's indium gallium zinc oxide versus you know a TN panel or something like that from um from previous gen displays now they are fantastic screens to look at there's there's one in front of me right now when they're working they are awesome the everything is so clear the EXO displays have great uh white white balanced whites are very you know very evenly lit there's not tons of backlight bleed they're they're really highend displays with uh with great image quality good color reproduction there's not much negative to say in terms of the panel quality now to get these screens working on PCS right now though you have two ways to to do it you can connect via HDMI and get that high resolution but then you're limited to a 30 HZ refresh rate at that high res at lower resolutions you can get a higher refresh rate if you want to get a 60 Herz refresh rate at that high res you need to use a display port 1.2 capable Gra graphics card um and run in what's called MST mode multistream transport mode and that will get you 60 HZ at that higher at that uh 3840 by 2160 res but it does it by basically splitting the screen into two separate displays um so you get lots of weirdness when you do this over the last few months I I have tested tons of cables couple screens a slew of graphics cards and this is sort of universal there's definitely some maturation that needs to happen in this space you'll see weird things like uh one day you'll turn your system on and only half your screen has a display the next day you'll turn it on and the whole thing is lit but it's running at half res sometimes it won't come out of sleep there's also a huge batch like many many display port cables out there even some cables included by manufacturers with the displays that aren't Visa compliant and they actually pump 3.3 volts back into your PC and cause all sorts of weirdness so as cool as these displays are and way I should say these are not Dell only issues in terms of the 4K displays this Dell screen is absolutely awesome and it's the one I'd buy because it has extra features um that others don't and it's also about $1,000 dollar cheaper than the the sharp and ass Su screens that are out there um but there's lots of stuff and weirdness to deal with if you want to be on this bleeding edge so getting a 4K display right now might not be the the smartest idea if you want a consistent experience with this and also the there's got to be a limitation as to what you can do with this right just running this crazy resolution assume you've got everything working like does this really provide you with a better work experience I mean you you're using one right now right so yes and no the first limitation is you you need a ton of horsepower if you want to game on it so you need a graphics setup capable of pushing 4 1080p displays essentially so you want to beef Graphics setup if you want to run everything at Native res at high image quality settings um a pair of Radeon 290x cards Titans GTX 780s they all provide a good gaming experience on this kind of setup the other consideration um is scaling in windows isn't perfect right now give you an example uh adobe's Creative Suite somebody considering a monitor like this probably wants to run Adobe apps on it what Photoshop Premiere what have you the toolbars don't scale in Adobe apps so you have all these pixels to work with you may even be able to edit your photos without scaling you know which for a for graphics professionals is a big deal but the tools are super super tiny in the Adobe apps you also see some weirdness scaling web pages when there's animations on them some apps you know have Ultra HD or I should say high DPI support and they scale beautifully While others look sort of fuzzy when they're scaled so there's tons of stuff you have to contend with if you've been a long time Enthusiast and you're used to you know I come from a day when I used to have to tweak qm to get dos games running you know properly so I'm not I'm not adverse to I'm not averse to tweaking getting things working right um if you're that kind of user you'll probably dig it and really be wow to have the pixels in front of you if you want to have something that's plug andplay and you're never going to touch it I would definitely wait it's also not cheap it's $2,700 and this is actually one of the lower priced models right yeah so you can actually find it um street price at Amazon for $24.99 right now sounds insane um but you know 30-inch displays with half the resolution were have been 1,200 bucks forever so I'm not saying it's easy to justify but you can see where that price comes from for this kind of this kind of bleeding edge technology one of the massive monitor one of the users in the chat room said OSX and this is a good commentary OSX beta has 4K controls now which is nice and I think uh I think Microsoft's got to step it up on the 4K front as well well you know Microsoft's actually done a really really good job I should say with Windows 81 um you on a clean setup starting fresh installing Windows 81 from scratch on a machine with one of these displays connected um it will detect the high DPI set your scaling all automatically so you actually can have it configured nicely with minimal tweaking it's just when you use them over the Long Haul odds are some of these little quirks I've mentioned are going to pop up and it's not a Windows only thing this is because there's no single scaler that can push these resolutions display port one two it's not it's not a new spec but the ca's necessary and the screens are new and the graphics drivers are new there's just lots of stuff that has to happen to make this perfect and it hasn't happened but it is awesome when it works yeah it's it's an ecosystem thing sure yep it'll get there in time and when when 4K is the standard I'm sure all this will be completely uh by standard I mean like every freaking monitor is a 4K right now we're still we we're still seeing so many various resolutions because 4K is like the top of the line when 8K comes out I'm sure 4K will be totally figured out completely the other great thing the absolutely fantastic thing about 4K displays for me fantastic finally finally is gonna you know sort of tell the graphics companies we need more GPU horsepower again for so long you know we've gotten to the point where a$ 6080 graphics card can push a 1080p display basically no problem you cannot push one of these with a cheap graphics card if you want any kind of playable frame rate at Native res so the GPU guys are on notice the screens are going to get affordable you can get a $620 monitor from Dell that's 4K the disadvantage is it Maxes at a 30 HZ refresh rate and it uses a TN panel but you are going to see affordable 4K displays through this year in the beginning of next and uh the graphics guys have to make chips that can push them for gamers so I'm excited Let's uh let's let's let's touch base on something there you mentioned uh and and and I gota I gotta believe I mean it sounds like an interesting product because it's cheap uh and I saw the Del 4K display myself we saw it at at uh CES this year the cheap one um 30 htz for gaming is useless right yes and no um pretty close to it it hurts put that way here's the advance so first of all that Dell that TN display lots of folks are like oh boo TN that's as high-end TN panel as I've seen it looked it looked great when we saw it live um you can also push that display um with a single HDMI cable or display port and not have the weirdness of using MST mode that the higher in displays use on the desktop using 30 HZ it's noticeable and it does detract from The Experience mouse cursor movements aren't perfectly smooth but it is absolutely something you can get used to gaming at 30 htz if you turn off vsync there's no lag but tons of tearing so figure four times the amount of tearing that you'd be used to on a 1080p display um turn vsync on and it's on playable man uh the the lag associated with mouse movements is crazy so yeah there's there's trade-offs there too yeah it's it's clearly for me you know that it seems like and it's sort of a it's sort of a um almost an oxymoron because that display is ideal for for professionals who would need by the way those Adobe tools that don't scale well right now for things like that but for for gamers that are saying oh man look at this beautiful 4K display and you know I've got a pair of 780 TI that I want to strap together and drive that sucker and game at super high res not at 30 htz it's not going to be fun you can get so you can you can drop the res to 1080 and get a higher refresh rate and have it be good and it'll scale perfectly it's it's it's 4X scaling so it'll scale perfectly you know on the display but you're not getting that true native res right yeah yep well now that we've thoroughly depressed everyone with the horrors of gaming on 4K display currently we gave him all heads up let let's let's let's raise some Spirits shall we let's actually talk about uh I believe you guys are giving away something that we've actually talked about on this very episode who wants to handle this you want me to do it Marco what's that you want me to handle it go for it so yeah that uh that sexy little uh Zeus mini box that I talked about a few minutes ago that really high-end gaming rig we're giving it away could be yours anybody watching this right now you have a shot at winning this box um we keep our contest as simple as possible come to hot Hardware like our Facebook page like cyber power PC's Facebook page and provide useful commentary on the site we don't want spammers just coming by to say hey nice thanks great if you come by the site you contribute to our discussions in our Forum in our news on our article Pages get yourself noticed on the site your name will be in the running and we are going to randomly pick a winner uh at the end of the month and the Machine could be yours I'll uh I'll chirp in a little bit uh I'll CHP in a little bit on that as well um you know we we run these contests and as Marco said we try and keep them simple um you know a couple of Facebook likes or whatever G+ like whatever whatever just to get in so to speak soort of check the box but then to get noticed we we encourage people to to have conversation in the in the comments and in the Forum or wherever across Ross the site to get yourself noticed to to to be visible and we do that because obviously we're trying to get people engaged and and and you know bring people in as an awareness to the site and and build the community and so that's why that's why we do it you know we're giving back obviously some some really cool gear here I mean this is a beautiful machine obviously a little bit of press for cyber power I mean they're good folks giving back as well so little bit of advertising for their brand just by The Mention right but it's very transparent come spend some time with us and we give you free stuff really cool free stuff freaking awesome PC I'm looking at the specs I'm just like oh my gosh this is I'm not eligible so I can't do but you guys can uh so if if you're wondering hey where can I find the links to what we talked about the contest details any of the stories we talked about H hardware.com has everything you need right there uh also if you want to go around the web and you're like I want to see hot Hardware content elsewhere like you know what I love I love Hot Hardware I want to see it on Twitter there's an option for you twitter.com Hardware if you want to go and watch some moving pictures I'm a big fan of the video stuff uh youtube.com/ Hardware vids if you want to be on Facebook you want to be social with hot Hardware you can do that facebook.com/ hardware and on Google+ plus.google.com plusus hot Hardware I I always almost crack up when I say it because that's actually the URL uh easiest thing to do is just to search for it uh over there and also if you really really you're like hey I want to get hot Hardware content in my email inbox you can actually do that too uh just go to H hardware.com look on the right side look for a little email icon and you can actually get newsletters and such email to you so you don't even you could just be like super lazy and they'll just send you content it's just amazing how you can't escape hot Hardware it's it yeah you can sit in your couch and it'll come to you it's a beautiful thing sueme which makes sense because I I write a lot of the content from my couch so that's Go full circle from couch to from couch to couch hot Hardware serving you uh any other any other closing notes before we uh wrap up this episode thanks to our friends at gfq all right I should really thanks we we stream this show live at gfq live.tv I completely forgot uh Andrew who's running the uh the board today and and runs the network is making my life a lot easier because I used to produce show and switch and do all that stuff on my own here but thanks to guys from Queens Network I don't have to do that anymore uh so he's doing all the work for us and I appreciate that and that's why I should have thanked him but I completely forgot because it's going so smoothly I'm just completely in a different world thanks Dave for reminding me you know iaz it's it's it's tough when the old man has to remind you about stuff well you know it's I'm a if I if I had two bloody matters this morning maybe I would have remembered and and I need to apologize uh for for last week or our last podcast I was trying to thank Andrew for turning all the knobs and dials but when it came out of my mouth it came out dobs and Niles and my wife Mak for a week so apologies for flubbing that one last podcast I thought you were making some kind of Harry Potter SL Fraser joke that I was like okay I just don't know that I'm just I'm just stupid no I'm just I'm just stupid sure I always figured that you're being far too smart for me to understand so that's the default and I'll make fun of you later for that I think that wraps it up for us though thanks for stopping bycoming up on 2 and half Geeks we'll be talking about tiny tiny PCS a massive 4k monitor contest details and a heck of a lot more rock in the benchmarks we're going to up the Annie a little bit processing power I kind of understand this welcome back to TF Geeks I'm AA zakar alongside Dave alella Marco chapeta I've now just made them one person because I didn't even say and so now you are together uh how are you both doing let's let's start with Dave how you doing I'm doing good doing good I'm uh clearly um a little little less than Adept at tweeting this very moment but um other than that I'm I'm just fine thank you and you I am terrific today because today is Sunday I we're recording this on Sunday I've had a pleasant day Marco have you had a pleasant day I have had a pleasant day I'm I'm doing good and and your intro reminds me of a story from elementary school that's only going to make me laugh but I'm going to tell it anyway the way you turn Dave and I into one person it just it reminded me I have a kid in my had a kid in my elementary school from kindergarten through 8th grade I'm still friends with him now his name was Walter and he had an older brother who was also in the same school called Frank and these two looked like twins you could not tell them apart they looked exactly the same so when we were messing with him and we' tease him we used to call him Franken Walter and he would be so pissed but he just reminded me of that story so I thought I tell it I like that I like that Franken Walter is awesome red it's kind of like roses are red violets are blue I'm schizophrenic and so am I no it's nothing like that Franken Walter you know is also one of uh it's one of Marco security answers you know like childhood best friend Franken wal Walter it's my it's my pin it's my pin at my at the ATM Franken Walter yeah the longest pin ever all right let's actually let talk about let's talk about what we're here to talk about Hardware because that's what we're gonna do today Dave you've got an assus Chrome box small form factor PC review up right now it's a little tiny PC it's actually it's running on Intel an Intel processor uh but it's it's really cheap what could you tell us about the Asus Chrome box it's uh it's fairly cheap um and it is running on an Intel core I3 the the model I got was a a core I3 dual core has well their their fourth generation core series architecture here it is right here it is a tiny little brick of of Joy uh 5 in square by 1.7 in thick and as you can see a couple uh usb3 ports here on the back side is where all the action is two more usb3 ports let me get it there oh that's much better okay and gigabit Ethernet HDMI and what am I missing um oh display port and uh of course the power jack so as you can see real tiny little um small form factor PC um actually really nice design nothing nothing crazy in terms of um construction it's a plastic flat flat black matte finish um but a nice very quiet small form factor PC and it is driven by the Chrome OS um so the the proverbial um Google uh Chrome OS in a browser model uh you are um working with that in this implementation and um but but actually very quiet um underload can't even hardly hear it you have to put your ear up to it to hear it um and so it it has a lot of you know horsepower and capability 4 gig of RAM 16 gig SSD not a ton of capacity but it's very quick uh and a small package you just have to work within the confines of that uh Google Chrome OS that um you know uh takes some getting used to but um but I enjoyed it now does it seem like a serviceable machine to have I mean if you're going to get a a chrome box or a Chromebook or anything running Chrome OS it seems like the apps are pretty limited is there do you think there's room in your house for a chrome box or anybody else's you know it's interesting um there are a lot of usage models you can think of for this type of device um certainly in and in the Enterprise and in education where Google apps Google Docs sheets slides all those Google cloud service office and productivity apps that that Google offers are available and and um really can sort of satisfy y uh the mainstream sort of basic functionality to get work and education done um and of course you've got internet browsing capabilities but yeah when you get on the on the on the Chrome Store um you're talking about a situation where most of the apps are are online or connected apps where you literally you think you're installing something but really what you're installing is a shortcut on the device to a website and that you know website then provides that service for that app that you're you know you're you're looking for so for example you know you can jump in Netflix Spotify Pandora all these places take you right to the to the website um it's been qualified by Google to run in Chrome and everything's functional and it's all good and it just works um but it's a it's a web driven interface there are a few offline apps um that you can you can run in offline mode you don't need an internet connection for and certainly the the Google um office and productivity apps are part of that suite for example where you can you know you can run in offline mode uh Google also by the way gives you 100 Gig of um uh Drive Google Drive cloud storage with uh this you know with their license for for Chrome device whether it be a Chrome book uh or in this case uh the Chrome the Chrome box actually I'm not sure that's standard let me let me qualify that for every CH Chrome device it's certainly standard for the Chrome box it's in in in the bundle but um yeah yeah you know the other the other usage model in the home is as a sort of you know utility computing device whether it be in the in the kitchen or in the living room or maybe as a family PC as a home theater PC it's certainly got the capability um if you are good with um you know running things in a browser and and here you're talking about again whether it be YouTube Netflix uh Amazon Prime any of those video Services they're they're all available plus you get the internet and all of the you know Internet connected services that are out there that run in Chrome it's just not a full home theater PC experience where you could you know maybe install like Steam and download some games that might be able to run on on this by the way uh you've got Intel integrated Graphics here HD 4400 Graphics in our core I3 driven model there are some other lower-end CPUs from Intel and even some uh high end skes I think as well um but you know it's I think it's a fairly capable device and for what you'd use it for maybe you're not going to have your your media player of choice and and things of that nature you know real hardcore home theater PC Buffs are going to find this to be limited because of that but I mean it can get the job done for for a good portion of uh the market as a home theater PC a family computer um or certainly an education of the Enterprise for S basic productivity stuff anytime I see these small form factur PCS the first thing I always think of is home theater applications just because they will fit in in that space really nicely and they don't look like an isore uh but I don't I don't think it would be something like I would use because I'm all about networked video and that's not exactly the same experience but there there's another uh small form factur PC that seems like it might be a better or more suitable kind of solution to someone like me and it's a cyber power PC Zeus mini uh I is it 780 this is a a uh what this thing I think double the price of the Chrome box but it's a real full PC right it's more like five or six times the price of the Chrome box but something just dawned on me before I talked about the Zeus Dave does that little box have a a card reader on it yeah it certainly does and actually I think we moved on a little bit a little bit too quickly there has a has a flash card reader uh for expansion has those USB ports for external storage and certainly it will pick up uh you know network attack storage as well um so you know yeah again I think it's about the media players that might not be available to you and how you might manage your files but you can get media into this device and use it I I was actually I'm asking for the card slot because you could actually you could probably boot open Al XBMC right from an SD card and have dual boot with Chrome OS or open Al if you want to stream stuff from your network just something that popped in idea I like that would be nice I haven't been able to get into the BIOS yet to to trigger where it could boot from but yeah theoretically you know what's also going to be interesting for this thing is what the what the open source Community does for it as well could be some good stuff coming down the pipe all right onto onto the Zeus mini um I I have to run through the specs to to give you the full impact of this machine so the Zeus mini that we reviewed was powered by an Intel Core i7 4770k so the fastest Haswell processor out there it had an EVGA superclocked gForce GTX 780 so super high-end graphics card 16 gigs of gskill RAM um clocked at 1866 so fairly high in memory 120 gig Samsung SSD plus a 2 tbte hard drive for bulk of storage a gigabyte Z87 based mother motherboard with with built-in Wi-Fi uh Cooler Master liquid cooling uh slot loading DVD burner uh plus a 80 plus certified 650 wat power supply from air sounds like a really high-end machine and cyber power crammed all of that into a chassis that's only 4.4 in wide 13 in tall and 17.4 in deep so you're talking about a high-end gaming PC in a box you know maybe maybe double the width of a small pizza box it's pretty crazy the kind of horsepower they fit into this guy uh but since they crammed everything into that small package I did notice that in in your uh review of it there there was some complaints when it comes to servicing this this machine because they kind of crammed everything together uh yes and no so one of the great things that cyber power PC does with this box is they use all off-the-shelf components um it's a it's a standard motherboard standard graphics card standard drives um everything about it can use offthe shelf offthe shelf components the the case is custom from cyber power though so accessing some of the parts is as simple as removing a side panel and you know popping out a few screws or a brace here and there Seth our editor who did the full review found that if you wanted to access the drives though there's tons of disassembly required it's sort of uh you know a negative for the machine I personally wouldn't hold you know wouldn't give it too many demerits for that because to to cram all this Hardware in a box that small you have to make some sort of concessions and if that means having to remove a few screws to upgrade it if you're ever going to upgrade a machine of this type I don't think that's a huge deal now in terms of pricing I think this is where people are going to go ooh that's a that's a little pricey so the Box we tested um was almost 1,900 bucks now you can go with lower-end configurations and get something cheaper or even go higher end and pay a little more um but this box is not cheap so you pay for that customization and the ability to use offshelf components um but it's a really high-end Machine Beautiful machine in a nice small form factor if you're looking for a small high-end machine this should definitely be on your short list yeah I saw the price started at 685 and that's what I was saying like it's like double but the the $1900 configuration you had uh performance was really solid from from what I what I've read is there any other any other notes about this uh diminutive PC uh yes so you mentioned performance was good obviously performance is going to be great with a a core i7 and SSD 16 gigs of RAM and a GTX 7 80 but more interestingly um if you like this machine stick around till the end of the podcast and I'm going to leave it at that ah little te yeah otherwise we don't have there's no reason to ever continue the podcast Marco that's what you're implying no I just want to make sure that if someone is particularly jazzed about this box they'll be particularly jazzed if they stick around all the way to the end particularly interesting interesting let's let's uh let's serve up our double dose of Dell products the first thing we got up is the Dell XPS 13 this is the 2014 version uh it's got a 13-inch screen touchcreen and I think it's it has an HD display is that right or is it over HD Dave no it's HD n it's it's 1080 full 1080 yep oh nice on a 13inch that's pretty cool uh so this is the XPS Line This is Dell's like I would say it's like not exact is this the top of the line right now because they used to have that weird DMO line that's gone now right yeah no this is uh this is the premium top shelf product so how was the XPS 13 the XPS 13 is uh it's a nice machine I actually took a look at it before we sent it on to our editor uh Jennifer Johnson who uh did the review for us um but I saw the previous version of this machine as well and in terms of you know the mechanical design Dell hasn't changed much there um with the exception of some new options and displays and and now um you know they had some lower res displays as well as the full 1920 x 1080p display that they have on the 2014 version uh you also get touch available to you now as well with Windows 8 and um really you know it it's it's a very nice premium notebook by Dell um it's sort of you know for me um in the in the top like two or three Ultrabooks in the 13inch form factor that I would probably consider to use myself sort of editor's choice if you will um this it would be the one carbon by Lenovo the XPS 13 and maybe one more that I'd throw in there trying to think of but um for me I'm I'm not quite as fond as um I am with the sharper edges in the Lenovo product as I am as with the the round edges in the in the XPS line but it is a very nice thin and if you like that rounded you know sort of contoured look uh in in the clamshell design it's it's really really well built you also get this carbon fiber Construction ction underneath and in the palmrest area it's a composite carbon fiber material and uh you know polymer carbon fiber composition um so you know very welld designed beautiful full HD display 350 NS of brightness 8001 contrast ratio we tested the version built on a core i7 4500 U with 8 gig of RAM and a 256 gig SSD so the thing scream through the benchmarks um integrated Intel HD 4400 Graphics there as well uh and so it it did it did very well and and um you know we've sort of come to expect in a certain Echelon of of ultra books this level performance and certainly it hit it um as tested here's the kicker we got the higher-end model with again 8 gig of RAM 256 gigs of hard drive 1649 uh 256 gig excuse me of SSD storage 1649 as well as that core i7 CPU so it wasn't a cheap configur uration you can configure it a little bit lower but we really liked it yeah this is a high-end machine so you're going to be paying a high-end price uh is would you even say to people to bother with a 1049 model because that's where it starts at but it seems like if I'm reading this right the touchcreen you have to add that as an option yeah you do um you it is it is a little bit of an upcharge um you know honestly I think for what you can get with Intel processors these days for Notebook Computing you could definitely save a few pesos uh and go with something less than a core i7 you know they've got some Core i5 models in the mix um and I think especially with the new Haswell architecture you're not sacrificing as much on the multimedia side because the graphics core is fairly similar across the SKS um you could definitely trim down and get a 128 gig SSD and save some money 4 gig of RAM probably especially with that SSD serving up your your storage um 4 gig ram probably isn't going to feel a whole lot different than 8 gig ram with Windows 8 unless you're doing some real heavy duty crunching Maybe video editing or what have you um on this machine so yeah absolutely you know considering the you know $9.99 you know price range SKS that are out there it's definitely an option um and uh you know something you might want to consider I think it's a great machine I think Del does a nice nice job with this machine it's um it's definitely a good value um the skew we tested is sort of the no compromise I Want It All skew uh for $649 and you get what you get or get what you pay for I should say you get what you get when you pay for it I guess that is true that's right yeah exactly let's talk we've got the uh the D Ultra sharp 4k monitor we've got to talk about this it's a 312 inch monitor running 4K resolution it's got similar styling it's got that rounded Corner thing going he's got that black and silver look Marco what what can you tell us about this what is it the up 3214 Q yes that is the model the Dell up 3214 Q uh Ultra HD monitor so I can tell you a lot about this because I've been messing around with with a few um of the 4K monitors that are available right now let me run through the specs quick um as you mentioned 4K display so 3840 pixels by 2160 pixels in a 31 and 1/2 in diagonal display so ultra high pixel density vers anything really that's been out there the last few years years this latest gen of 4K monitors takes the pixel density to a whole another level if you think about that it's 4 108p screens crammed into 31 and a half inches diagonal so to give you the kind an idea of the kind of clarity that these screens are capable of so this display is very similar to the to the Asus and sharp 4K the high-end 4K displays that have been uh out there for a little while it's using what's known as an an exop panel it's indium gallium zinc oxide versus you know a TN panel or something like that from um from previous gen displays now they are fantastic screens to look at there's there's one in front of me right now when they're working they are awesome the everything is so clear the EXO displays have great uh white white balanced whites are very you know very evenly lit there's not tons of backlight bleed they're they're really highend displays with uh with great image quality good color reproduction there's not much negative to say in terms of the panel quality now to get these screens working on PCS right now though you have two ways to to do it you can connect via HDMI and get that high resolution but then you're limited to a 30 HZ refresh rate at that high res at lower resolutions you can get a higher refresh rate if you want to get a 60 Herz refresh rate at that high res you need to use a display port 1.2 capable Gra graphics card um and run in what's called MST mode multistream transport mode and that will get you 60 HZ at that higher at that uh 3840 by 2160 res but it does it by basically splitting the screen into two separate displays um so you get lots of weirdness when you do this over the last few months I I have tested tons of cables couple screens a slew of graphics cards and this is sort of universal there's definitely some maturation that needs to happen in this space you'll see weird things like uh one day you'll turn your system on and only half your screen has a display the next day you'll turn it on and the whole thing is lit but it's running at half res sometimes it won't come out of sleep there's also a huge batch like many many display port cables out there even some cables included by manufacturers with the displays that aren't Visa compliant and they actually pump 3.3 volts back into your PC and cause all sorts of weirdness so as cool as these displays are and way I should say these are not Dell only issues in terms of the 4K displays this Dell screen is absolutely awesome and it's the one I'd buy because it has extra features um that others don't and it's also about $1,000 dollar cheaper than the the sharp and ass Su screens that are out there um but there's lots of stuff and weirdness to deal with if you want to be on this bleeding edge so getting a 4K display right now might not be the the smartest idea if you want a consistent experience with this and also the there's got to be a limitation as to what you can do with this right just running this crazy resolution assume you've got everything working like does this really provide you with a better work experience I mean you you're using one right now right so yes and no the first limitation is you you need a ton of horsepower if you want to game on it so you need a graphics setup capable of pushing 4 1080p displays essentially so you want to beef Graphics setup if you want to run everything at Native res at high image quality settings um a pair of Radeon 290x cards Titans GTX 780s they all provide a good gaming experience on this kind of setup the other consideration um is scaling in windows isn't perfect right now give you an example uh adobe's Creative Suite somebody considering a monitor like this probably wants to run Adobe apps on it what Photoshop Premiere what have you the toolbars don't scale in Adobe apps so you have all these pixels to work with you may even be able to edit your photos without scaling you know which for a for graphics professionals is a big deal but the tools are super super tiny in the Adobe apps you also see some weirdness scaling web pages when there's animations on them some apps you know have Ultra HD or I should say high DPI support and they scale beautifully While others look sort of fuzzy when they're scaled so there's tons of stuff you have to contend with if you've been a long time Enthusiast and you're used to you know I come from a day when I used to have to tweak qm to get dos games running you know properly so I'm not I'm not adverse to I'm not averse to tweaking getting things working right um if you're that kind of user you'll probably dig it and really be wow to have the pixels in front of you if you want to have something that's plug andplay and you're never going to touch it I would definitely wait it's also not cheap it's $2,700 and this is actually one of the lower priced models right yeah so you can actually find it um street price at Amazon for $24.99 right now sounds insane um but you know 30-inch displays with half the resolution were have been 1,200 bucks forever so I'm not saying it's easy to justify but you can see where that price comes from for this kind of this kind of bleeding edge technology one of the massive monitor one of the users in the chat room said OSX and this is a good commentary OSX beta has 4K controls now which is nice and I think uh I think Microsoft's got to step it up on the 4K front as well well you know Microsoft's actually done a really really good job I should say with Windows 81 um you on a clean setup starting fresh installing Windows 81 from scratch on a machine with one of these displays connected um it will detect the high DPI set your scaling all automatically so you actually can have it configured nicely with minimal tweaking it's just when you use them over the Long Haul odds are some of these little quirks I've mentioned are going to pop up and it's not a Windows only thing this is because there's no single scaler that can push these resolutions display port one two it's not it's not a new spec but the ca's necessary and the screens are new and the graphics drivers are new there's just lots of stuff that has to happen to make this perfect and it hasn't happened but it is awesome when it works yeah it's it's an ecosystem thing sure yep it'll get there in time and when when 4K is the standard I'm sure all this will be completely uh by standard I mean like every freaking monitor is a 4K right now we're still we we're still seeing so many various resolutions because 4K is like the top of the line when 8K comes out I'm sure 4K will be totally figured out completely the other great thing the absolutely fantastic thing about 4K displays for me fantastic finally finally is gonna you know sort of tell the graphics companies we need more GPU horsepower again for so long you know we've gotten to the point where a$ 6080 graphics card can push a 1080p display basically no problem you cannot push one of these with a cheap graphics card if you want any kind of playable frame rate at Native res so the GPU guys are on notice the screens are going to get affordable you can get a $620 monitor from Dell that's 4K the disadvantage is it Maxes at a 30 HZ refresh rate and it uses a TN panel but you are going to see affordable 4K displays through this year in the beginning of next and uh the graphics guys have to make chips that can push them for gamers so I'm excited Let's uh let's let's let's touch base on something there you mentioned uh and and and I gota I gotta believe I mean it sounds like an interesting product because it's cheap uh and I saw the Del 4K display myself we saw it at at uh CES this year the cheap one um 30 htz for gaming is useless right yes and no um pretty close to it it hurts put that way here's the advance so first of all that Dell that TN display lots of folks are like oh boo TN that's as high-end TN panel as I've seen it looked it looked great when we saw it live um you can also push that display um with a single HDMI cable or display port and not have the weirdness of using MST mode that the higher in displays use on the desktop using 30 HZ it's noticeable and it does detract from The Experience mouse cursor movements aren't perfectly smooth but it is absolutely something you can get used to gaming at 30 htz if you turn off vsync there's no lag but tons of tearing so figure four times the amount of tearing that you'd be used to on a 1080p display um turn vsync on and it's on playable man uh the the lag associated with mouse movements is crazy so yeah there's there's trade-offs there too yeah it's it's clearly for me you know that it seems like and it's sort of a it's sort of a um almost an oxymoron because that display is ideal for for professionals who would need by the way those Adobe tools that don't scale well right now for things like that but for for gamers that are saying oh man look at this beautiful 4K display and you know I've got a pair of 780 TI that I want to strap together and drive that sucker and game at super high res not at 30 htz it's not going to be fun you can get so you can you can drop the res to 1080 and get a higher refresh rate and have it be good and it'll scale perfectly it's it's it's 4X scaling so it'll scale perfectly you know on the display but you're not getting that true native res right yeah yep well now that we've thoroughly depressed everyone with the horrors of gaming on 4K display currently we gave him all heads up let let's let's let's raise some Spirits shall we let's actually talk about uh I believe you guys are giving away something that we've actually talked about on this very episode who wants to handle this you want me to do it Marco what's that you want me to handle it go for it so yeah that uh that sexy little uh Zeus mini box that I talked about a few minutes ago that really high-end gaming rig we're giving it away could be yours anybody watching this right now you have a shot at winning this box um we keep our contest as simple as possible come to hot Hardware like our Facebook page like cyber power PC's Facebook page and provide useful commentary on the site we don't want spammers just coming by to say hey nice thanks great if you come by the site you contribute to our discussions in our Forum in our news on our article Pages get yourself noticed on the site your name will be in the running and we are going to randomly pick a winner uh at the end of the month and the Machine could be yours I'll uh I'll chirp in a little bit uh I'll CHP in a little bit on that as well um you know we we run these contests and as Marco said we try and keep them simple um you know a couple of Facebook likes or whatever G+ like whatever whatever just to get in so to speak soort of check the box but then to get noticed we we encourage people to to have conversation in the in the comments and in the Forum or wherever across Ross the site to get yourself noticed to to to be visible and we do that because obviously we're trying to get people engaged and and and you know bring people in as an awareness to the site and and build the community and so that's why that's why we do it you know we're giving back obviously some some really cool gear here I mean this is a beautiful machine obviously a little bit of press for cyber power I mean they're good folks giving back as well so little bit of advertising for their brand just by The Mention right but it's very transparent come spend some time with us and we give you free stuff really cool free stuff freaking awesome PC I'm looking at the specs I'm just like oh my gosh this is I'm not eligible so I can't do but you guys can uh so if if you're wondering hey where can I find the links to what we talked about the contest details any of the stories we talked about H hardware.com has everything you need right there uh also if you want to go around the web and you're like I want to see hot Hardware content elsewhere like you know what I love I love Hot Hardware I want to see it on Twitter there's an option for you twitter.com Hardware if you want to go and watch some moving pictures I'm a big fan of the video stuff uh youtube.com/ Hardware vids if you want to be on Facebook you want to be social with hot Hardware you can do that facebook.com/ hardware and on Google+ plus.google.com plusus hot Hardware I I always almost crack up when I say it because that's actually the URL uh easiest thing to do is just to search for it uh over there and also if you really really you're like hey I want to get hot Hardware content in my email inbox you can actually do that too uh just go to H hardware.com look on the right side look for a little email icon and you can actually get newsletters and such email to you so you don't even you could just be like super lazy and they'll just send you content it's just amazing how you can't escape hot Hardware it's it yeah you can sit in your couch and it'll come to you it's a beautiful thing sueme which makes sense because I I write a lot of the content from my couch so that's Go full circle from couch to from couch to couch hot Hardware serving you uh any other any other closing notes before we uh wrap up this episode thanks to our friends at gfq all right I should really thanks we we stream this show live at gfq live.tv I completely forgot uh Andrew who's running the uh the board today and and runs the network is making my life a lot easier because I used to produce show and switch and do all that stuff on my own here but thanks to guys from Queens Network I don't have to do that anymore uh so he's doing all the work for us and I appreciate that and that's why I should have thanked him but I completely forgot because it's going so smoothly I'm just completely in a different world thanks Dave for reminding me you know iaz it's it's it's tough when the old man has to remind you about stuff well you know it's I'm a if I if I had two bloody matters this morning maybe I would have remembered and and I need to apologize uh for for last week or our last podcast I was trying to thank Andrew for turning all the knobs and dials but when it came out of my mouth it came out dobs and Niles and my wife Mak for a week so apologies for flubbing that one last podcast I thought you were making some kind of Harry Potter SL Fraser joke that I was like okay I just don't know that I'm just I'm just stupid no I'm just I'm just stupid sure I always figured that you're being far too smart for me to understand so that's the default and I'll make fun of you later for that I think that wraps it up for us though thanks for stopping by\n"