**The Importance of Car Safety Features for Families**

As parents, we want to ensure that our children are safe and protected while driving with them. Locking cars, especially when they are parked in driveways, is a crucial safety feature to consider. This is particularly important for toddlers who can easily get into and out of the car. By keeping keys or key fobs out of reach, we can prevent accidents and ensure that our children's safety is not compromised.

**Choosing the Right Vehicle for Towing a Small Pop-Up Camper**

If you're planning to buy a small pop-up camper in the spring, it's essential to choose a vehicle that can handle the weight. Most compact CUVs or crossovers have a maximum towing capacity of 1,500 pounds, which may not be enough for smaller campers weighing between 1,600-2,100 pounds. However, there are some options available.

Gabe, one of our experts, recommends considering vehicles with a higher towing capacity to ensure safety and margin for error. He suggests the Ford Escape or Chevy Equinox, both of which can tow up to 3,500 pounds. However, these vehicles may cost more than the budgeted price range of $26,000-$30,000.

Jen, another expert, agrees with Gabe's assessment but also recommends considering other options. She suggests checking out used Kia Sorento V6 models from 2018 or 2017 with low mileage, which can be purchased for a lower price point. This option may not have the same towing capacity as some of the newer vehicles, but it still offers a reliable and safe choice.

**Towing Safely: Understanding Margin and Capacity**

When towing a small pop-up camper, it's essential to understand the concept of margin and capacity. The last thing you want is to tax your engine and transmission to their maximum limit, which can lead to damage or even accidents. By choosing a vehicle with some breathing room, you can ensure that both you and your passengers are safe.

The Subaru Outback is one such vehicle that stands out for its towing capacity of up to 2,700 pounds. While it may not have the same capacity as some newer models, it's still an excellent choice for those who want a reliable and safe option. Additionally, the Outback's station wagon design makes it a great alternative to traditional SUVs.

**Additional Tips and Resources**

For more information on towing safely, we recommend checking out Consumer Reports' guides and resources. They offer valuable tips and insights on how to choose the right vehicle for your needs, as well as advice on maintaining safe driving practices while towing.

By taking these precautions and choosing the right vehicle, you can ensure a safe and enjoyable experience when towing your small pop-up camper. Remember to always prioritize your family's safety and well-being, and don't hesitate to seek expert advice if you're unsure about any aspect of car ownership or towing.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enbefore we start the show this week we wanted to take a quick second to tell you about a new initiative we're introducing in the podcast which is our talking cars donation program for those that don't know cr is a non-profit and we're able to do all of the work we do including anonymously buying our test cards and producing this show through memberships to our website and magazine as well as through donations what the talking cars donation program will do is allow loyal talking cars fans to show support for the podcast assist in supporting the costs of producing the podcast as well as support all the work cr does to keep consumers safe you'll be able to contribute either as a one-time donation or on a monthly basis even five dollars a month really helps go to cr.org give talking cars to find out more in any event we'll keep delivering talking cars each and every week again go to cr.org give talking cars to find out more thanks for watching and enjoy the show we give our test results for the nissan leaf plus and we share our tips on how to avoid overpaying on a car loan and help you figure out what to buy if you're planning to tow a camper this summer next on talking cars hey welcome back i'm keith barry i'm gabe shanghaier and i'm jennifer stockberger and jen and gabe your houses look a little different this week uh we're still doing a distanced uh version of the podcast but uh you know we've had some storms in connecticut a lot of people are out of uh don't have power i'm fine but but but both both of you uh jen where are you yeah so i am today uh filming from our new tire and child seat building you can see a lot of tires behind me i have no power no signals so we are being socially distance and that i'm in a different building so that helps but yes this is not home this week and gabe your background it looks like you got the short end of the stick in terms of uh locations where are you right now location location location no i'm good i'm in one of our conference rooms and it's all private here i'm not seeing a soul no one even knows i'm here so i'm i'm good to go so don't ever let anyone tell you we didn't move power lines and down trees in order to uh to get this latest episode of talking cars to you a little more socially distanced than than usual these days uh but par for the course for 2020. uh so tell you about how many three branches i had to dodge on the way here oh my gosh well i hope i hope the cars are okay at least anyhow uh so speaking of 2020 you know we're going to start off with some car buying advice uh so car transaction prices are up inventory is low for a lot of vehicles more people are struggling financially more people are buying cars for the first time and from for most people buying a car means financing but how much you pay depends on uh for for most of the time uh on the rate on the loan when you finance the vehicle and there's a great article uh this week that's up at consumerreports.org on how to get the best car loan rate uh even if you don't have a great credit score uh but jen i think the majority of the advice can be boiled down in a uh smokey robinson of the miracle song uh my mama told me i better shop around is that what i think sorry i think that is it i think yeah so yeah and absolutely that is the truth this you know just like you'd shop around for the best price you can absolutely shop around for the best rate um and often that is not the rate you're getting from your dealer it you know check with your local bank check with credit unions see if that's the better way to go and even get pre-approval um know know what they're willing to give you um before you even walk into the dealer so that's a very good thing and you mentioned credit score which was kind of the basis of this story um credit score is not just a measure of your financial risk um so that it's used you know the worse the score the higher the rate you may pay but it's it's attached to a lot of things even like your insurance rates for example it it's kind of used as your overall risk in some cases so i have a great story my stepdaughter was always a firm believer in you pay cash for everything you you know you save the money then you go get the item and then you just pay for it she didn't have a lot of loans she didn't have a lot of debt you know fast forward she gets married wants to get a mortgage doesn't have any credit score at all so it was very bad i think they ended up at you know in their first transaction on their house putting it fully in her husband's name because she didn't have a score so for younger people too you have to establish that credit score you know get a credit card and pay it off each month get a small loan on something pay it off each month start working on building that credit score because it does relate to so many things not just loans and once you get to the dealer something beyond that is is something that not a lot of people might know about it's called a a markup fee and that's basically dealers that provide financing uh if you're getting your financing through the dealer that means you haven't gone to a bank or a credit union beforehand and come into the you know come into the dealer with your financing already pre-approved if you go in and just agree in a car and then you sit down and they say all right now let's talk financing uh you don't want to do that because the dealer can add something called a markup and that's basically where they um they add some they mark up the interest rate and that money goes directly back to the dealer's pocket so if the car if the the loan rate that the dealer has from the bank is six percent they could come back to you and say great news ms stockberger we've got you a rate of 8.25 and that 2.25 percent is going back to the dealer and um this is this is also an issue in terms of of discrimination as well so there was a study a little while back from the national fair housing alliance that had white and non-white testers shop for the same car at the same dealerships within 24 hours and in most cases the even if the non-white applicant was more qualified they were offered a more expensive car loan that cost them uh 2600 more over the life of a loan uh there was a rule put in place to prevent this type of discrimination it was rescinded recently and you know this is something that all buyers should worry about but especially uh you know people of color who are buying a car and one way you can avoid that is by getting your own financing and also asking the dealer to be very very clear is there a markup on this loan so you can make an apples-to-apples comparison let me touch upon a very common pitfall here i mean we keep hearing people focusing on the monthly payment just uh talking about the monthly payment is a very common mistake you shouldn't do that you should always start from the point of negotiating the price of the cars if you're buying it cash then establish that price and then deal with the loan separately whether you get a better loan at the dealer or at your own bank uh whatever loan you can you can uh whatever best rate you can you can get get that i mean remember the dealer can it has so many tools and so many uh it is so flexible and giving you the the monthly rate that you want they can just spread the loan over more months and you're just gonna end up paying more in the end yeah and double check that math i've had a few times where i've been at a dealer in that number all of a sudden it doesn't add up uh and and of course every time it's been a simple mistake we would never be trying to deceive you sir uh and you know i believe them whatever people make mistakes doing math but you can get a loan calculator app for your phone bring that uh when you go to the bank bring that double check the paperwork on everything before you sign it say hold on a second i need to do the math and if you do end up getting a terrible you know if you do end up going to a dealer and or if you're already in something with a higher rate you can refinance right jen absolutely yeah so um you know you can chop around after the fact if that and re you know get a new loan pay off the higher interest rate loan rate and take the better rate and no two something we just experienced um when we were purchasing our new truck is the advertised rates are going to be the best ones they're going to be the people with the excellent credit scores and the incentives and the rates are usually mutually exclusive you can get forty five hundred dollars off and zero percent well that's not really true you get forty five percent forty five hundred off or zero percent in in a lot of cases absolutely buyers should check every number every little iota don't put yourself at the whim of anybody whether intentionally or unintentionally but uh you know come in equipped with all the knowledge and check every number every little clause and uh yeah it's not just about the amount of money that that dealers are making off a vehicle a lot of the profit the dealers make is off the financing uh so remember that you know you think you're free and clear because you've negotiated a great price in the car because you followed gabe shendar's advice and then all of a sudden they come out with 200 a month and you say i can afford that uh but you need to look uh you look at how many months and you need to look at that rate and shop around so uh good luck out there especially if you're buying a vehicle lots of car buying advice at consumerreports.org uh it's a big purchase there are lots of opportunities for you to to get parted from your money so so be prepared so speaking of buying a new car if you're in the market for an electric vehicle uh which gabe and jen you don't have you don't have anywhere to plug in right now at home uh but uh electric cars power outages uh we have some test results from the nissan leaf plus uh gabe what is didn't the leaf come out a few years ago what's the nissan leaf plus uh what what is this vehicle so yeah um the nissan first let's start start with this uh nissan leaf as was the pioneer of uh electric vehicle from a mass market uh established manufacturer so in 2011 it uh put for the first time an electric vehicle within reach for many people an electric vehicle it wasn't some expensive esoteric six-figure kind of a thing or it wasn't a conversion that was done in someone's backyard so anyway fast forward to uh 2019 second generation redesign nissan leaf appears with a 40 kilowatt hour battery size and a range of 150 and nissan at that point is completely stunned by the chevy bolt that came out uh a year before that with a 60 kilowatt hour battery and a range of miles robust range that very much eliminates range anxiety so a year later nissan introduces with the leaf plus with a 60 kilowatt hour battery and a range that's bumped from 150 to 215. uh they look the same nissan's just uh getting uh bypassed by a gm with chevy volt by the koreans with the uh with a very nice kona electric and the kia niro ev all of which have robust ranges and are decent cars to drive and the nissan just uh the leaf shows its age in terms of uh chassis development i mean right handling aren't uh so brilliant there the car is a little tends to be a little tender and a little uh not absorb all bumps very well it's not particularly agile in the handling department and i mean it of course it takes longer charge also a deal breaker for me is the driving position the steering uh doesn't adjust for reach it doesn't telescope and uh that compromises the driving position uh for a lot of people now jen i know you've spent a lot of time in this vehicle recently uh did you did you have it when your power went out i did so you know it's funny you bring that up you know i was i had it and i was thinking you know if this was your only vehicle you know our whole neighborhood right now is whirring with generators would you need a generator to not just supply your refrigerator but your car at that point and i don't even know how long it would take to charge but i was very conscious of that having it but i agree with everything gabe said it's not the most sporty and the ride can be a little stiff but i actually very much enjoy driving the leaf that it's everything you would want from an electric you know that immediate power delivery that smooth power delivery without being you know so segregated that you're saying oh my gosh this is so different that i'm in an electric vehicle i find it very pleasant great visibility you kind of sit high up in the leaf so you have kind of this great view i immediately to gabe's point missed the telescoping wheel i got in moved my seat and reached forgetting that it doesn't have it you know i i just appealed to nissan in that case that that should be an adder in the next version of the leaf for sure um so but it's a pleasant vehicle to drive um it definitely just to quote my young son you know that's the ugliest car i've you've brought home in a long time mom but i think it's a statement car so you know like you would see a prius you know that when you see the leaf it's different in some way and i think people want people to know at some point that you know in many cases that they are driving an electric vehicle and you know doing the right thing for the environment it definitely makes that statement but inside it's it's nicely appointed for you know it's got some suede like trim and things like that um so yeah i i actually find it a pleasant vehicle to drive i do agree that they're gonna have to step up the range to remain competitive but overall you know if you're considering electric um it's with the higher kilowatt you know range to that it would be a absolutely a good choice to look at and jen also it has the some advanced driver assistance features as well right right and the standard safety yes it does so yeah forward collision warning automatic emergency braking are all a good good but and you know truth you talk about that it has nissan's pro pilot assist we often get talking about the ability to you know adapt speed and steering the nissan leaf has that you know so it's actually can be a great convenience in traffic that you have the ability to just inch along and stay in your lane kind of get rid of some fatigue for a little while so it does have that pro pilot assist as well now the elephant in the room with every ev is tesla and of course the similar similar capabilities to autopilot there is no 35 000 model three uh but you know the leaf is about 38 000 so it's about a different different uh different you know before tax incentives and it's in a different world than tesla but to me it's in the same world as the kona ev which uh which gabe mentioned which has more range and starts at about 37 000 before tax incentives and that's where i think you know the regular leaf and the leaf plus they look exactly the same uh you know there's there's not you know not any sort of snob appeal aside from a little thing in the badge that says plus um but other than that you're not getting a ton of benefits for the money so aside from availability and that a lot of these cars are easier to get than uh than some of the the hyundai's the kia some other vehicles which are only sold in limited areas i i i don't really see that there any any sort of uh pros which is too bad because i really like this car i found myself taking it home very often uh when we were commuting back and forth still from the office every day this was one of my one of my go-to cars that i really liked but um you know practical it's electric uh i liked it so if you want to read more our full test results for the nissan leaf and the nissan leaf plus and all the other evs out there are at consumerreports.org so we don't have any video questions this week which means you just you just get to look at us if you're watching the video version of this but if you do have a video question or any other questions send it to talkingcars icloud.com and we'll do our best to answer it so uh the first question is from jason from toronto who says i think this question is best suited for gabe there we go that's why we chose it for this week um i was wondering how you determine which vehicle you purchase from a model lineup because uh for those of you don't know gabe shenhar really kind of leads figuring out which vehicles we purchase here at crbs we purchase our own vehicles to test we don't borrow them uh no one gives them to us we buy them and gabe is sort of the force behind that so uh you often mention you select the model that is most popular among consumers and not the fully loaded version most other buff books uh you know the the sort of uh the sort of car guy magazines for lack of better term tests so how do you determine this is it your best guess a manufacturer's prediction based on historical stats gabe i would be remiss if i didn't throw that to you we have multiple ways of uh determining the exact version that we want test our goal is to test the most representative uh version so we help uh most people and uh so we get uh from the manufacturer we we get uh the expected uh trim line uh breakdown uh with take rates specific take rates for each uh trim line we also uh right before we buy the car we look at inventory out there so let's say we we see uh 827 uh cars in the country of uh a given model and uh let's say uh 40 of them are lts and other versions are other trims so we we know that the lt is the most popular trim now there are some we also have another tool and it's our survey so our reliability annual survey shows us exactly what kind of cars our members own and what kind of trim lines so if our members tend to buy uh more xles than les then we'll turn we'll tend to uh test uh xle's you know there are some some other some exceptions let me uh bring the uh subaru legacy and outback for for example so we tested the legacy with the regular standard uh engine and with the outback we chose to uh do the up level turbo engine and also uh we looked a little bit about about how our members buy the outback and uh we we saw that uh quite a bit of them tend to buy the up level engine not the majority but uh sizable minority like by 40 so that gave us the opportunity to test both basically to figure out both subaru this way we can we can weigh in on both the regular engine and the up level engine and then occasionally we will also get in uh jen we can sometimes rent a vehicle from uh from a manufacturer to find out what that the super duper version or the base version is right right and just to clarify that while we we won't do any formal testing so you won't see things like breaking distances or fuel economy on cars that we rent and we say rent because we do pay manufacturers a fee for having them um we will get impressions but no formal testing is done on those vehicles and i think gabe's gabe's you know summary of how we pick the cars does highlight we have great technical exchanges with the manufacturers we talk back and forth all the time that doesn't mean we are influenced by them or you know in any way any way in what we select but we certainly are talking about technology and sales and you know that type of thing often with them so it's not like we're detached we we definitely are um you know conversing and trading technical exchange with manufacturers all of the time but unlike some other publications those those technical exchanges aren't taking place on a on a road trip of of uh of the alps uh paid for by the manufacturers and ultimately we escaped we are going out and buying our own car but based on the um you know some of the information they provide exactly yeah um so great great answers uh for questions from jason thanks for that question jason our next question is from ng can you please let me know if there's any concern about third row accessibility button in the following scenario a child is sitting in the second row of an suv the person in the third row presses the third row accessibility button which is supposed to roll and fold the second second row seat forward will the child be hurt in that situation or is there a safety mechanism that does not allow it to happen or will it not fold far enough forward to cause bodily injury jen um yeah can you can you intentionally or unintentionally uh close that second row from the from the third row if you're sitting there is right so so let me first start by saying we have not formally tested this so i can't answer definitively what i can say is the only occasion i ever recall of a child being injured and this was actually a young man was a number of years ago when a 16 year old boy actually got trapped in his vehicle he was climbing back to the third row area to get something and the seat closed on him and trapped him there other than that i do not know of any data or trends that say that folding second row seats is what he what ng's talking about are a danger to children either at injury or fatality and keep in mind they do it at very different levels so you can have the one where the seat back folds and it kind of slides forward which may be uncomfortable probably not injury causing and then you have some that for lack of a better term are fairly violent in flipping down the seat back and then tumbling forward and those are probably more risk but i don't know of any trends in that injury i think it highlights another area where young kids for sure being in child restraints would just be another protection the seat even if it's a forceful seat is not going to be able to overcome the seat shell of a child restraint another protection offered by a restraint a belted child it would provide resistance because it's not going to be able to push beyond that belt resistance some some vehicles even allow or have a design that allows you to fold and slide the seat forward with a child restraint in place that's the the nissan pathfinder right has that yes that's one of them so i think we're okay i don't know of the trends i think it highlights two things one obviously there's people in the vehicle with that person i can see another sibling for example pushing that button and pushing a brother or sister forward i don't think there's danger there again not formally testing it um but everybody needs to be diligent when there are young kids in the car and i just want to bring up this this whole topic um during covent you know you talk about these kids that are um fatally um you know tragically lost in hot cars during covet there's a lot more cars at home and there's a lot more kids at home and even though the deaths from children in hot cars are down significantly in 2020 um there was 52 in 2019 we're only at 14 um so far in 2020 as of you know this recording there was 14 in august alone last year but what we are seeing as an uptick in the percentage of those are kids getting into the vehicles on their own so the cars there their home their board just reinforcing for parents that are home and kids are home lock your car if it's in your driveway particularly kids of toddler age that can get in and can't get out and if there's key fobs around or keys make sure you keep them out of reach of little hands so just another area that this kind of brought to mind as we were talking about this topic on ng's question that's that's a that's a that's a great question um our last yeah yeah very good advice to the car yeah so the last question is from christopher and this is one of those fun questions where we all get to pick a car uh and christopher says i'm in the market for a compact cuv or crossover small suv and i plan to buy a small pop-up camper in the spring most vehicles in this category top out at towing fifteen hundred pounds many small campers weigh sixteen hundred to twenty one hundred pounds i've looked at the ford escape chevy equinox and others but was wondering what you would recommend is a good cuv crossover small suv for towing 2 000 pounds or more that cost between 26 000 and 30k new or used gabe what's your pick so he's uh kind of on the rack uh right track here uh i mean most of these pop-up campers weigh about two thousand pounds and if he's looking at a an escape ford escape with the two-liter turbo engine not the standard 1.5 liter engine that can tow 3 500 pounds and that can do the job but it's not going to come in under 30 000. that's probably going to be about 34 36 000 um my other uh uh choice for him would be a used uh kia sorento v6 uh you can pick up at 2018 2017 with fairly low mileage uh for mid-20s and that uh that should really do the trick without any sweat awesome jen what do you want and now that gabe hasn't also picked mine i'm afraid you're going to pick mine so so first of all i want to say he's on the right track so when we talk about towing you never want your max towing capacity to kind of be right on top of what you're towing because you think about camping you know even though the pop-up may be 1600 pounds for example there's always stuff that you're adding to it you probably have other equipment that's in the pop-up a cooler you know equipment so you always want a little bit of margin you don't really want to be taxing your engine and transmission all of the time to its maximum and people in the vehicle too and people in the vehicle so absolutely i think um he's on the right track of getting something with some towing margin with that said i think he to agree with gabe he was on the right track but i was saying the chevrolet equinox in that not only are the newer equinox able to tow 3 500 pounds they have been able to do so for a number of years so it opens up the ability to potentially get a used equinox so that gives plenty of margin plenty of towing capacity and i also noted that the new rav4 is a 3 500 pound um towing capacity again in the past it was not that high it was in the 1500 you know pound towing range like the cx-5 or this you know forester or the crv but the newer one does have a 3 500 pound capacity if you want to look new but i thought the equinox gave you some options there well no one picked my choice so my choice is um it is an suv but it's a little more like a station wagon and it's the subaru outback the 2019 outback uh can tow up to 2700 pounds and you can get one of those um you know the last generation outback you can get for well below um so you can put that money towards the camper or towards towards fuel or anything else it still gives you some margin on there just just not as much with the last generation outback to learn more about towing if you don't know what tongue weight is go to consumerreports.org we have a bunch of of great guides um to all of that uh all of that information and we can we can tell you exactly how to make sure that you can tow safely and in a way that doesn't damage your vehicle that's it for this week uh next week uh i hope i hope jen and gabe i hope your your trees are fine your houses are fine i hope there's no other calamity that befalls us watch us with the curse of 2020 here uh yes i certainly hope so uh so uh looking forward to joining again thanks for talking cars with us youbefore we start the show this week we wanted to take a quick second to tell you about a new initiative we're introducing in the podcast which is our talking cars donation program for those that don't know cr is a non-profit and we're able to do all of the work we do including anonymously buying our test cards and producing this show through memberships to our website and magazine as well as through donations what the talking cars donation program will do is allow loyal talking cars fans to show support for the podcast assist in supporting the costs of producing the podcast as well as support all the work cr does to keep consumers safe you'll be able to contribute either as a one-time donation or on a monthly basis even five dollars a month really helps go to cr.org give talking cars to find out more in any event we'll keep delivering talking cars each and every week again go to cr.org give talking cars to find out more thanks for watching and enjoy the show we give our test results for the nissan leaf plus and we share our tips on how to avoid overpaying on a car loan and help you figure out what to buy if you're planning to tow a camper this summer next on talking cars hey welcome back i'm keith barry i'm gabe shanghaier and i'm jennifer stockberger and jen and gabe your houses look a little different this week uh we're still doing a distanced uh version of the podcast but uh you know we've had some storms in connecticut a lot of people are out of uh don't have power i'm fine but but but both both of you uh jen where are you yeah so i am today uh filming from our new tire and child seat building you can see a lot of tires behind me i have no power no signals so we are being socially distance and that i'm in a different building so that helps but yes this is not home this week and gabe your background it looks like you got the short end of the stick in terms of uh locations where are you right now location location location no i'm good i'm in one of our conference rooms and it's all private here i'm not seeing a soul no one even knows i'm here so i'm i'm good to go so don't ever let anyone tell you we didn't move power lines and down trees in order to uh to get this latest episode of talking cars to you a little more socially distanced than than usual these days uh but par for the course for 2020. uh so tell you about how many three branches i had to dodge on the way here oh my gosh well i hope i hope the cars are okay at least anyhow uh so speaking of 2020 you know we're going to start off with some car buying advice uh so car transaction prices are up inventory is low for a lot of vehicles more people are struggling financially more people are buying cars for the first time and from for most people buying a car means financing but how much you pay depends on uh for for most of the time uh on the rate on the loan when you finance the vehicle and there's a great article uh this week that's up at consumerreports.org on how to get the best car loan rate uh even if you don't have a great credit score uh but jen i think the majority of the advice can be boiled down in a uh smokey robinson of the miracle song uh my mama told me i better shop around is that what i think sorry i think that is it i think yeah so yeah and absolutely that is the truth this you know just like you'd shop around for the best price you can absolutely shop around for the best rate um and often that is not the rate you're getting from your dealer it you know check with your local bank check with credit unions see if that's the better way to go and even get pre-approval um know know what they're willing to give you um before you even walk into the dealer so that's a very good thing and you mentioned credit score which was kind of the basis of this story um credit score is not just a measure of your financial risk um so that it's used you know the worse the score the higher the rate you may pay but it's it's attached to a lot of things even like your insurance rates for example it it's kind of used as your overall risk in some cases so i have a great story my stepdaughter was always a firm believer in you pay cash for everything you you know you save the money then you go get the item and then you just pay for it she didn't have a lot of loans she didn't have a lot of debt you know fast forward she gets married wants to get a mortgage doesn't have any credit score at all so it was very bad i think they ended up at you know in their first transaction on their house putting it fully in her husband's name because she didn't have a score so for younger people too you have to establish that credit score you know get a credit card and pay it off each month get a small loan on something pay it off each month start working on building that credit score because it does relate to so many things not just loans and once you get to the dealer something beyond that is is something that not a lot of people might know about it's called a a markup fee and that's basically dealers that provide financing uh if you're getting your financing through the dealer that means you haven't gone to a bank or a credit union beforehand and come into the you know come into the dealer with your financing already pre-approved if you go in and just agree in a car and then you sit down and they say all right now let's talk financing uh you don't want to do that because the dealer can add something called a markup and that's basically where they um they add some they mark up the interest rate and that money goes directly back to the dealer's pocket so if the car if the the loan rate that the dealer has from the bank is six percent they could come back to you and say great news ms stockberger we've got you a rate of 8.25 and that 2.25 percent is going back to the dealer and um this is this is also an issue in terms of of discrimination as well so there was a study a little while back from the national fair housing alliance that had white and non-white testers shop for the same car at the same dealerships within 24 hours and in most cases the even if the non-white applicant was more qualified they were offered a more expensive car loan that cost them uh 2600 more over the life of a loan uh there was a rule put in place to prevent this type of discrimination it was rescinded recently and you know this is something that all buyers should worry about but especially uh you know people of color who are buying a car and one way you can avoid that is by getting your own financing and also asking the dealer to be very very clear is there a markup on this loan so you can make an apples-to-apples comparison let me touch upon a very common pitfall here i mean we keep hearing people focusing on the monthly payment just uh talking about the monthly payment is a very common mistake you shouldn't do that you should always start from the point of negotiating the price of the cars if you're buying it cash then establish that price and then deal with the loan separately whether you get a better loan at the dealer or at your own bank uh whatever loan you can you can uh whatever best rate you can you can get get that i mean remember the dealer can it has so many tools and so many uh it is so flexible and giving you the the monthly rate that you want they can just spread the loan over more months and you're just gonna end up paying more in the end yeah and double check that math i've had a few times where i've been at a dealer in that number all of a sudden it doesn't add up uh and and of course every time it's been a simple mistake we would never be trying to deceive you sir uh and you know i believe them whatever people make mistakes doing math but you can get a loan calculator app for your phone bring that uh when you go to the bank bring that double check the paperwork on everything before you sign it say hold on a second i need to do the math and if you do end up getting a terrible you know if you do end up going to a dealer and or if you're already in something with a higher rate you can refinance right jen absolutely yeah so um you know you can chop around after the fact if that and re you know get a new loan pay off the higher interest rate loan rate and take the better rate and no two something we just experienced um when we were purchasing our new truck is the advertised rates are going to be the best ones they're going to be the people with the excellent credit scores and the incentives and the rates are usually mutually exclusive you can get forty five hundred dollars off and zero percent well that's not really true you get forty five percent forty five hundred off or zero percent in in a lot of cases absolutely buyers should check every number every little iota don't put yourself at the whim of anybody whether intentionally or unintentionally but uh you know come in equipped with all the knowledge and check every number every little clause and uh yeah it's not just about the amount of money that that dealers are making off a vehicle a lot of the profit the dealers make is off the financing uh so remember that you know you think you're free and clear because you've negotiated a great price in the car because you followed gabe shendar's advice and then all of a sudden they come out with 200 a month and you say i can afford that uh but you need to look uh you look at how many months and you need to look at that rate and shop around so uh good luck out there especially if you're buying a vehicle lots of car buying advice at consumerreports.org uh it's a big purchase there are lots of opportunities for you to to get parted from your money so so be prepared so speaking of buying a new car if you're in the market for an electric vehicle uh which gabe and jen you don't have you don't have anywhere to plug in right now at home uh but uh electric cars power outages uh we have some test results from the nissan leaf plus uh gabe what is didn't the leaf come out a few years ago what's the nissan leaf plus uh what what is this vehicle so yeah um the nissan first let's start start with this uh nissan leaf as was the pioneer of uh electric vehicle from a mass market uh established manufacturer so in 2011 it uh put for the first time an electric vehicle within reach for many people an electric vehicle it wasn't some expensive esoteric six-figure kind of a thing or it wasn't a conversion that was done in someone's backyard so anyway fast forward to uh 2019 second generation redesign nissan leaf appears with a 40 kilowatt hour battery size and a range of 150 and nissan at that point is completely stunned by the chevy bolt that came out uh a year before that with a 60 kilowatt hour battery and a range of miles robust range that very much eliminates range anxiety so a year later nissan introduces with the leaf plus with a 60 kilowatt hour battery and a range that's bumped from 150 to 215. uh they look the same nissan's just uh getting uh bypassed by a gm with chevy volt by the koreans with the uh with a very nice kona electric and the kia niro ev all of which have robust ranges and are decent cars to drive and the nissan just uh the leaf shows its age in terms of uh chassis development i mean right handling aren't uh so brilliant there the car is a little tends to be a little tender and a little uh not absorb all bumps very well it's not particularly agile in the handling department and i mean it of course it takes longer charge also a deal breaker for me is the driving position the steering uh doesn't adjust for reach it doesn't telescope and uh that compromises the driving position uh for a lot of people now jen i know you've spent a lot of time in this vehicle recently uh did you did you have it when your power went out i did so you know it's funny you bring that up you know i was i had it and i was thinking you know if this was your only vehicle you know our whole neighborhood right now is whirring with generators would you need a generator to not just supply your refrigerator but your car at that point and i don't even know how long it would take to charge but i was very conscious of that having it but i agree with everything gabe said it's not the most sporty and the ride can be a little stiff but i actually very much enjoy driving the leaf that it's everything you would want from an electric you know that immediate power delivery that smooth power delivery without being you know so segregated that you're saying oh my gosh this is so different that i'm in an electric vehicle i find it very pleasant great visibility you kind of sit high up in the leaf so you have kind of this great view i immediately to gabe's point missed the telescoping wheel i got in moved my seat and reached forgetting that it doesn't have it you know i i just appealed to nissan in that case that that should be an adder in the next version of the leaf for sure um so but it's a pleasant vehicle to drive um it definitely just to quote my young son you know that's the ugliest car i've you've brought home in a long time mom but i think it's a statement car so you know like you would see a prius you know that when you see the leaf it's different in some way and i think people want people to know at some point that you know in many cases that they are driving an electric vehicle and you know doing the right thing for the environment it definitely makes that statement but inside it's it's nicely appointed for you know it's got some suede like trim and things like that um so yeah i i actually find it a pleasant vehicle to drive i do agree that they're gonna have to step up the range to remain competitive but overall you know if you're considering electric um it's with the higher kilowatt you know range to that it would be a absolutely a good choice to look at and jen also it has the some advanced driver assistance features as well right right and the standard safety yes it does so yeah forward collision warning automatic emergency braking are all a good good but and you know truth you talk about that it has nissan's pro pilot assist we often get talking about the ability to you know adapt speed and steering the nissan leaf has that you know so it's actually can be a great convenience in traffic that you have the ability to just inch along and stay in your lane kind of get rid of some fatigue for a little while so it does have that pro pilot assist as well now the elephant in the room with every ev is tesla and of course the similar similar capabilities to autopilot there is no 35 000 model three uh but you know the leaf is about 38 000 so it's about a different different uh different you know before tax incentives and it's in a different world than tesla but to me it's in the same world as the kona ev which uh which gabe mentioned which has more range and starts at about 37 000 before tax incentives and that's where i think you know the regular leaf and the leaf plus they look exactly the same uh you know there's there's not you know not any sort of snob appeal aside from a little thing in the badge that says plus um but other than that you're not getting a ton of benefits for the money so aside from availability and that a lot of these cars are easier to get than uh than some of the the hyundai's the kia some other vehicles which are only sold in limited areas i i i don't really see that there any any sort of uh pros which is too bad because i really like this car i found myself taking it home very often uh when we were commuting back and forth still from the office every day this was one of my one of my go-to cars that i really liked but um you know practical it's electric uh i liked it so if you want to read more our full test results for the nissan leaf and the nissan leaf plus and all the other evs out there are at consumerreports.org so we don't have any video questions this week which means you just you just get to look at us if you're watching the video version of this but if you do have a video question or any other questions send it to talkingcars icloud.com and we'll do our best to answer it so uh the first question is from jason from toronto who says i think this question is best suited for gabe there we go that's why we chose it for this week um i was wondering how you determine which vehicle you purchase from a model lineup because uh for those of you don't know gabe shenhar really kind of leads figuring out which vehicles we purchase here at crbs we purchase our own vehicles to test we don't borrow them uh no one gives them to us we buy them and gabe is sort of the force behind that so uh you often mention you select the model that is most popular among consumers and not the fully loaded version most other buff books uh you know the the sort of uh the sort of car guy magazines for lack of better term tests so how do you determine this is it your best guess a manufacturer's prediction based on historical stats gabe i would be remiss if i didn't throw that to you we have multiple ways of uh determining the exact version that we want test our goal is to test the most representative uh version so we help uh most people and uh so we get uh from the manufacturer we we get uh the expected uh trim line uh breakdown uh with take rates specific take rates for each uh trim line we also uh right before we buy the car we look at inventory out there so let's say we we see uh 827 uh cars in the country of uh a given model and uh let's say uh 40 of them are lts and other versions are other trims so we we know that the lt is the most popular trim now there are some we also have another tool and it's our survey so our reliability annual survey shows us exactly what kind of cars our members own and what kind of trim lines so if our members tend to buy uh more xles than les then we'll turn we'll tend to uh test uh xle's you know there are some some other some exceptions let me uh bring the uh subaru legacy and outback for for example so we tested the legacy with the regular standard uh engine and with the outback we chose to uh do the up level turbo engine and also uh we looked a little bit about about how our members buy the outback and uh we we saw that uh quite a bit of them tend to buy the up level engine not the majority but uh sizable minority like by 40 so that gave us the opportunity to test both basically to figure out both subaru this way we can we can weigh in on both the regular engine and the up level engine and then occasionally we will also get in uh jen we can sometimes rent a vehicle from uh from a manufacturer to find out what that the super duper version or the base version is right right and just to clarify that while we we won't do any formal testing so you won't see things like breaking distances or fuel economy on cars that we rent and we say rent because we do pay manufacturers a fee for having them um we will get impressions but no formal testing is done on those vehicles and i think gabe's gabe's you know summary of how we pick the cars does highlight we have great technical exchanges with the manufacturers we talk back and forth all the time that doesn't mean we are influenced by them or you know in any way any way in what we select but we certainly are talking about technology and sales and you know that type of thing often with them so it's not like we're detached we we definitely are um you know conversing and trading technical exchange with manufacturers all of the time but unlike some other publications those those technical exchanges aren't taking place on a on a road trip of of uh of the alps uh paid for by the manufacturers and ultimately we escaped we are going out and buying our own car but based on the um you know some of the information they provide exactly yeah um so great great answers uh for questions from jason thanks for that question jason our next question is from ng can you please let me know if there's any concern about third row accessibility button in the following scenario a child is sitting in the second row of an suv the person in the third row presses the third row accessibility button which is supposed to roll and fold the second second row seat forward will the child be hurt in that situation or is there a safety mechanism that does not allow it to happen or will it not fold far enough forward to cause bodily injury jen um yeah can you can you intentionally or unintentionally uh close that second row from the from the third row if you're sitting there is right so so let me first start by saying we have not formally tested this so i can't answer definitively what i can say is the only occasion i ever recall of a child being injured and this was actually a young man was a number of years ago when a 16 year old boy actually got trapped in his vehicle he was climbing back to the third row area to get something and the seat closed on him and trapped him there other than that i do not know of any data or trends that say that folding second row seats is what he what ng's talking about are a danger to children either at injury or fatality and keep in mind they do it at very different levels so you can have the one where the seat back folds and it kind of slides forward which may be uncomfortable probably not injury causing and then you have some that for lack of a better term are fairly violent in flipping down the seat back and then tumbling forward and those are probably more risk but i don't know of any trends in that injury i think it highlights another area where young kids for sure being in child restraints would just be another protection the seat even if it's a forceful seat is not going to be able to overcome the seat shell of a child restraint another protection offered by a restraint a belted child it would provide resistance because it's not going to be able to push beyond that belt resistance some some vehicles even allow or have a design that allows you to fold and slide the seat forward with a child restraint in place that's the the nissan pathfinder right has that yes that's one of them so i think we're okay i don't know of the trends i think it highlights two things one obviously there's people in the vehicle with that person i can see another sibling for example pushing that button and pushing a brother or sister forward i don't think there's danger there again not formally testing it um but everybody needs to be diligent when there are young kids in the car and i just want to bring up this this whole topic um during covent you know you talk about these kids that are um fatally um you know tragically lost in hot cars during covet there's a lot more cars at home and there's a lot more kids at home and even though the deaths from children in hot cars are down significantly in 2020 um there was 52 in 2019 we're only at 14 um so far in 2020 as of you know this recording there was 14 in august alone last year but what we are seeing as an uptick in the percentage of those are kids getting into the vehicles on their own so the cars there their home their board just reinforcing for parents that are home and kids are home lock your car if it's in your driveway particularly kids of toddler age that can get in and can't get out and if there's key fobs around or keys make sure you keep them out of reach of little hands so just another area that this kind of brought to mind as we were talking about this topic on ng's question that's that's a that's a that's a great question um our last yeah yeah very good advice to the car yeah so the last question is from christopher and this is one of those fun questions where we all get to pick a car uh and christopher says i'm in the market for a compact cuv or crossover small suv and i plan to buy a small pop-up camper in the spring most vehicles in this category top out at towing fifteen hundred pounds many small campers weigh sixteen hundred to twenty one hundred pounds i've looked at the ford escape chevy equinox and others but was wondering what you would recommend is a good cuv crossover small suv for towing 2 000 pounds or more that cost between 26 000 and 30k new or used gabe what's your pick so he's uh kind of on the rack uh right track here uh i mean most of these pop-up campers weigh about two thousand pounds and if he's looking at a an escape ford escape with the two-liter turbo engine not the standard 1.5 liter engine that can tow 3 500 pounds and that can do the job but it's not going to come in under 30 000. that's probably going to be about 34 36 000 um my other uh uh choice for him would be a used uh kia sorento v6 uh you can pick up at 2018 2017 with fairly low mileage uh for mid-20s and that uh that should really do the trick without any sweat awesome jen what do you want and now that gabe hasn't also picked mine i'm afraid you're going to pick mine so so first of all i want to say he's on the right track so when we talk about towing you never want your max towing capacity to kind of be right on top of what you're towing because you think about camping you know even though the pop-up may be 1600 pounds for example there's always stuff that you're adding to it you probably have other equipment that's in the pop-up a cooler you know equipment so you always want a little bit of margin you don't really want to be taxing your engine and transmission all of the time to its maximum and people in the vehicle too and people in the vehicle so absolutely i think um he's on the right track of getting something with some towing margin with that said i think he to agree with gabe he was on the right track but i was saying the chevrolet equinox in that not only are the newer equinox able to tow 3 500 pounds they have been able to do so for a number of years so it opens up the ability to potentially get a used equinox so that gives plenty of margin plenty of towing capacity and i also noted that the new rav4 is a 3 500 pound um towing capacity again in the past it was not that high it was in the 1500 you know pound towing range like the cx-5 or this you know forester or the crv but the newer one does have a 3 500 pound capacity if you want to look new but i thought the equinox gave you some options there well no one picked my choice so my choice is um it is an suv but it's a little more like a station wagon and it's the subaru outback the 2019 outback uh can tow up to 2700 pounds and you can get one of those um you know the last generation outback you can get for well below um so you can put that money towards the camper or towards towards fuel or anything else it still gives you some margin on there just just not as much with the last generation outback to learn more about towing if you don't know what tongue weight is go to consumerreports.org we have a bunch of of great guides um to all of that uh all of that information and we can we can tell you exactly how to make sure that you can tow safely and in a way that doesn't damage your vehicle that's it for this week uh next week uh i hope i hope jen and gabe i hope your your trees are fine your houses are fine i hope there's no other calamity that befalls us watch us with the curse of 2020 here uh yes i certainly hope so uh so uh looking forward to joining again thanks for talking cars with us you\n"