Going Everywhere and Talking About Books

Well, we're excited to have you back on the show again and love talking to you about your books that's super exciting to be able to give them a check um and start writing your second book um Rex and I don't know if we ever will write a second book other people are expecting it but you're way further than we are people are like you guys need to write another one I like oh no yeah those are people that have never written a book yeah it's a lot of work right it's a ton of work yeah lot put yourself out there and I don't know yeah it's a lot no it is a lot it's a lot and we will say Tom we don't know what you're looking for in a publisher but we highly recommend Art publishing she was wonderful for us so okay what's bet Brown's media I can put you in touch with her if you're interested yeah but um yeah we're we're glad to do that she just she really made the book uh what would you say at a made a readable yeah she he did it up is what I like to say a whole lot not that you don't need that th we sure do to that but I do too yeah the point is she was wonderful to work with just very um very wonderful so and she's one of our optimists so hope she's hopefully she's listening we should have just done this live Adam you know Tom what do you think of this you've done the live with us I'm thinking we switch our way of doing this Adam and just do lives and when we have a guest like Tom you and I talk to them for 15 20 minutes and open it up to questions yeah in know live I like that like we did at the mbor yep I always really enjoy that because I get like we were talking before some of the people who have criticism or whatever I get their response and I I really do like that and um its also always nice to have fans yeah people that want to talk and ask questions and all that I love that yeah that's great I would do that as a matter of fact why don't we post this and then invite Tom if you don't mind you could join us on our next live and uh kind of as a followup to this and let people ask questions and if you know people were offended or or whatever let them ask let it we can talk I think your audience would be perfect for that I would love that yeah because you know our audience is nice yeah our audience wonderful you know our audience is so nice about everything so even when they disagree that they won't be disagreeable yeah exactly that's the key right yeah well lets do that lets post this one and then uh we usually do them on Saturday Tom um so we'll talk and we'll work that out see you're available and all that so perfect okay very good well we'll just wrap this one up Adam our 52nd episode Tom that makes it an official 52 weeks although we didn't do one a week but uh we did two a week yeah yeah Year's worth of content year yeah and more and more yeah but you really are a very welcome guest um again Adam kn as little Adam and I don't get offended by our friends okay so you'd you'd have to go pretty far to uh to offend us we we're very supportive of your book recommended to everyone thank you um again people people have seen it we've talked about it many times on our show money power and sex the Lori Val debel trial by jur number 18 Tom Evans you get that on Amazon and not only is it a great read I have mine on my bookcase right here you're you're supporting a good cause check that out on hidden True Crime and I think that just got posted last week didn't it ton what that your visit um that was shown on it happened on Thursday and I think she posted it either later that day or Friday yeah yeah real recent so thank you Tom uh thanks to and I know part of part of your team there oh yeah even when she's not on camera yeah love too and uh thanks for with us on the episode and we'll see each other on the live thank you guys I really appreciate the time I love being on with you guys I say it every time but I always really enjoy our conversations and conversations about the boat controversial or not I I appreciate that you got all right Bud we'll see you later than guys see you later

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enwelcome to this special episode of Silver Linings podcast I'm here with Adam as we usually are you can see why I call it a special um special episode here just because we have a good friend with us we consider him a good friend um we got to know him after Lor's trial Tom Evans and his wife Susan not on the screen but um we we consider them a team uh is a lot like Lisa doesn't necessarily crave the time on the camera so um Tom's representing her and I won't even say I'm representing Lisa I we just get to see her when we see her that it's always a good thing but um we're we're excited to have Tom on because he's been very active lately and uh Tom why don't we start out I know we'll give Adam a chance to talk too but let's start out by um just explaining I think most of our optimists are hidden gems also and so they they may have seen the video you did with with Lauren and John which we loved but tell us a little bit more about your experience with your book and the proceeds of your book and what you did with them for those who may not have seen it okay yeah I think uh your listeners probably have a pretty good idea about my book we've talked about that let me put up a copy while you're topping or talking put up the cover as a matter of fact there it is um and so the reason I felt like I had to write the book when the trial was over um is that I wanted to try to get something good out of my experience as a juror um and I thought there was really a story to tell I didn't think it was a story that everybody was going to tell um my version of it might be a little bit different I wanted to tell the story of the good that I saw in the trial and not dwell as much um on the more horrible aspects of it and so it I finished it found a publisher um fortunately got it out there um and we finally got our first royalty check and we were able to um get out to our charity which is Hope House and hand it over to them and you know that was a long time coming and um a really big day for me that's exciting and if y'all haven't seen the uh video look up hidden True Crime and it says I can't remember the title exactly I should have had that pulled up along with this but um it's Tom Evans jur number 18 Adam I didn't even do a good introduction C of Tom that's why you that's why we normally have you start us off Tom of course one of the jurors in the Lorie Vala trial jur number 18 you can see that on the by line on the book cover there and uh we got to know each other a little bit after that over the book and over over Tom's service and certainly appreciate his efforts with the book and his friendship frankly he's been on on our podcast at least well hasn't been two times we did that in ID in um oh after the with Tian JJ's Memorial yeah we did that live after after the Memorial and and Tau more about this book um Tom tell us more about your experience with the reaction to this book if you would how did people receive it what are some some things you learned and appreciated from that um the reaction has been really good I and it was a concern of mine going into this um I didn't want to sensationalize the story I didn't want to take advantage of anybody and I didn't want to profit from it um and you know even so it's it's a little nerve-wracking to write about people's lives and um you guys know better than any anybody um telling what I think happened you know giving my opinion about things um to do with the church the families whatever um that's a hard thing and I hope I did it in a way that was you're talking to me still so I guess I didn't offend you guys too bad right well I know that there's people that have talked to me about your book U about things that you wrote in there things that you said like taking for instance or Deb or people like that cuz I know you interviewed a lot of people and you put their perspectives in the book uh I'm glad that you wrote a page saying that Rex and I would disagree with you on a lot of things on that well that was smart of you to do that just because Rex and I have been on here talking about how you know there's certain members of our family that we don't you you know we don't take with a grain of salt the things that they said um but since you're reporting and trying to figure out what's right and what's wrong and what happened and what didn't happen I could see on your side it's hard to try to gather information and then you try to make a education educational um thought process of what you think happened by what you took in and you talk and obviously you talk to Rex and I you know how we feel about certain things so I'm really glad that you wrote that in your book about that page you know cuz people were saying stuff that you know obviously they don't like things that Megan say that Deb says and we Rex and I have even talked about that on this podcast so um yeah writing a book is difficult because people's feelings are going to get hurt um uh people's opinion so opinions are different than facts and so I think you wrote something about Colby which were not facts they were just more opinions or what people said so some of those things get lost and people do get upset so I understand why you'd be nervous about you know somebody coming after you or saying that so yeah writing a book is difficult um but I think that you know you saying things like that like look this is what Megan said this is what Deb said um this is what Justin Lum said or whoever you're giving people credit for what they said or what you wrote so I think that was smart for you to do that thank you yeah it's um and it wasn't so much about people coming after me I'm not afraid of being criticized um and I've gotten a little criticism but mostly it's been positive um it's more my concern about hurting people that have already been hurt enough I you know that's the last thing in the world I'm trying to do did anybody in in our church say anything about things that were critical if you viewed that's possible um only I've only gotten a couple of reviews that were bad yeah um and my my take on it is those were people who were offended just at the idea that I would even talk about the Mormon church or ask any questions about it I understand that um but I hope I was fair there too that's the other thing I was really careful about is well I think there question need to be asked but I want to do it in a respectful way and I think I think that's smart and Rex and I both think that's smart and we are on a podcast uh live on Saturday where somebody had asked a question the question got deleted and Rex and I were like hey that's a legitimate question people who don't go to the Church of Jesus Christ lar Saints are interested in um what how does your church function do you actually believe this do you believe this and Rex and I we have nothing to hide I me we we we're fine explaining what what the church does their their position on it what our position is on it or whatever it is so again those are those are things that I think some people uh get defensive about right off the bat you know what I mean so th those are all like those are the the tough areas of the book for you to to be able to do that but that I don't even think like my questioning of the church it's not to um BL the church in any way and I hope that came across too it's I mean Chad and Lori Twisted um the Doctrine and Covenants of the church and use them in an unfair way yeah um I don't have any doubt about that yeah it's just are there things in in those Doctrine and Covenants that we could talk about just just so we could understand yeah well Rex is a doctor in Covenant expert so we'll turn over the Sunday School lesson to him Rex wait I just T the Sunday School lesson I'm done with church for the oh you're you're done with church no more Church once we leave church there's no more Church no we had we had people ask us that Tom people in the Church saying well what do you think about this you know and they were a little um I wouldn't even go as far as say offended but concerned but um my view is just like like Adams we know it's tough to write a book and write you know the people we have send in our book are in our family so we understand that it's stuff you know it's almost inevitable you're gonna offend someone even if you aren't trying to and even talking about it out people may get offended but I love the fact that you would write the book I love your role as a juror um and everything you put in there I think was is fair ground and you're entitled your opinion all the other people um you know that you quote in there or that you reference or entitled to their opinions Adam and I have been doing this a year now and we know there are a lot of different opinions and people tell us their opinions of people in our family and my comment to people that that question us about your book was we love Tom we loved his book and you know PE everyone there's something in there for everyone everyone can take out of it what they want but look at the service he provided for everyone just by serving on their journey and then trying to make sense of it in a book and put it out there that is just a tremendous work would you agree with everything or not is just a tremendous work and effort we appreciate that well thank you for saying that I really appreciate hearing that from you guys it's honestly it's a relief for me because I had you two guys in my head a lot as I was writing some of those things were there Square wordss involved at that time a long so about this okay no I was just I was thinking about you guys and kind of contradicting some of what you told me and um hoping that our friendship would survive that I guess well yeah so that's why that's why I brought all that up just because when you're referencing other people as a juror or somebody investigating writing a story about it you're asking a bunch of questions to a bunch of different people and you're taking in information and try to do the best you can to process what you heard and what makes sense to you um that's why this is your book so that's and any and like I said anybody can write any book they want to write right so I've told that to you know there's a lot of people say oh you should have done this you I said hey you got your own you have your own hand and paper go write your own book well and the thing is like I welcome criticism and I in conversation about it yeah you know I don't have any problem with somebody criticizing what I wrote or disagreeing with it or being offended by it um if we could just talk it out yeah I think we need a lot more of that yeah I love that communication and asking more questions and doing that yeah that's all that's all great I love like when I get somebody on Facebook will say something and you know maybe I'm kind of offended by it but I love that they're they're saying it and yeah okay let's talk about this yeah find find out more information okay let's talk give me give me your perspective in getting information and that's kind of like how I was with with uh Charles and how I was you know trying to get more information and being able to help and see what makes sense and you know when you shut people out that's the worst like and you see that a lot on YouTube and all that someone wants to make their comment and then in it and then there's a reply comment and then there's nothing there's crickets after that because they don't want to get into it instead of investigating and really talking it out and having you know Rex is great at this having conversations with people who have a way different opinion than him and him actually listening to everything that they have to say processing processing it and then allowing you know that to process for a minute and Rex can still be like well I understand now why you think that I I still disagree with you but at least I understand what you're saying why you believe that so I think that's where we're all we all need to get on that page of you know that equal uh time to hear each other out that's what of the problems with how we communicate nowadays I think is it's really easy just to shut people out who differ in their opinions and it's better to talk face to face and you know you learn when I talk to people about politics or whatever who disagree with me I learned from them if nothing else I know what the opposing side thinks and I know how how I can beat them or whatever you know yeah ex there you go take it as that um so you so talk politics then we already hit religion now let's go right into Politics the two things we don't talk about on this podcast no I will I will say though um first of all Adam thank you for what you said about me and I I know you got that impression of me by hearing me talk to your mom on things we don't agree about and other people not just my mom I I see you do this all the time and I've been close to your mom all the time we don't agree on things all the time but I still love her we're still you know still feel like we're close even when communication straight but um along with that I want I wanted to point out about you Adam um I I can't remember what the point was so I'll have to come back to it but it was a positive work dang it was it about Charles letting people talk to me no no coming you start backtracking and start talking about things that you talked about that is very positive oh no it's it is that your whole desire in writing the book and doing the podcast was to encourage people to do just that in their family hey talk have the hard conversations the difficult conversations call people out that are going off the rails and you see they're going off the rails and what what kindly encouragement that is Adam I don't know about everyone else but in our family that's that's happening and Lisa's family and and there's just no no um substitute for that type of communication I know you want to avoid in other families what happened in yours with Lori uh being able to lie to different people and split the family completely apart the immediate family the nucleus the nuclear family and that's tough to do when someone's going off the rail and people take side and people have a some type of sense of loyalty that um you know I'd rather be loyal to this person and be wrong than to keep everyone together I don't get that philosophy myself but because the thinking the well because I think the thinking of my situation would be like if I think that Lori and Alex are murderers I can't put my mind there I can't even think about that they would be involved in that so I'm taking their side so I don't have to believe that and I don't have to go through that process where I'm on the other side knowing that you know that happened and I have to go through that process by myself it's just hard it's just avoiding I think it it comes down to avoiding they just you know tried to avoid the hardness that was going to eventually they were going to have to face but they didn't want to face it right then and right there yeah I think we all have somebody in our families or most of us anyway um who's really hard to talk to maybe they they they just in their opinions they differ so much from the rest of a the rest of the family there's that one person that you you maybe don't have those conversations with because you know it's never going to end well but um even with those like you know I have that in my family and I try to find some kind of Common Ground um that we can agree on and get along together um but this is not the extreme that you guys had to suffer through but it doesn't have to be extreme these are just I mean really the reason I wrote the book and the reason we're doing this podcast for me was to get families to talk about everything because I hear from so many people everything gets swept under the rug and everybody avoids it and then an explosion happens and so it could have been avoided so let's let's switch gears and go from Lorie's book to Chad's book and you're writing this on his trial are you have you talked to any of his kids uh interviewed people around them um what what are you getting uh with writing this book I'm getting almost no response from anybody that I'm trying to contact and it's it's kind of frustrating and I was able to talk to a lot of people during the trial because I was there every day yeah and and that was really awesome um and also to get to experience the trial every day I think I was able to formulate ideas that um if I were just watching that are listening or reading about it I wouldn't be able to um formulate those same ideas uh but I'm still trying you know um I understand why people don't want to talk and I I wish they would I you know probably everybody feels this way I wish they would talk to me I think I'm I'm trying to be honest about it I'm not trying to sensationalize and I like to think that if they were going to talk to anybody it should be me what about his uh brother and sisters same thing kids brothers and sisters like anybody associated with Chad nobody says anything yeah and you know I 't pushed really hard I have had um brief conversations um with Matt and Heather um but they don't they they don't have a cousin Megan on their team no and if if they show any reluctance you know I don't want to push yeah exactly um I feel like I have uh a pretty good understanding and a lot of information to go on I wish I had some more some firsthand um conversations with some other people that I'm gonna move on without it if I can't get it but so um the book has coming along um it's it's not really a book so much about just Chad's trial as opposed to the first one being about Lor's trial it's more a book the first one was about Lor's but the second one is kind of uh more comprehensive book about the whole face because you can't really separate them I don't think right and quite a bit of new stuff came out in Chad's trial that was interesting um so you know I and I kind of changed some of my ideas or added to some of my ideas I think after sitting through Chad's trial that's a good tease for us Todd give us an example of something a perception of yours that changed from Lor's and when you wrote Lor's book to will see differently in this book if you don't mind yeah I don't know if it's so much that a percep changed I think I was trying to understand Chad trying to understand Chad and Lori um and trying to understand Lori all three separately and I it's really hard to do right and I think with Chad I realize um is is kind of the religious ring leader or whatever of this whole thing I think I understand that a little bit better Lori um not that she was a follower so much I think she was a leader in her own way she's very manipulative and all of that but I think Chad was kind of the one with the ideas I'm starting to think yeah yeah I think I think that too but you know in whether Lori and Alex you know they went along with everything Chad said and just Lori and Alex Rex and I think there's a bunch of people I do too yeah do you do you do you address that the book ton the fact that ritualistic and yes do you do you have some wild theories about that that you share in the book or that you want to share with us um about the Inner Circle yeah thatting we speculate about it from time to time we heard about casting on the on Chad's trial so that's where we started you know all these different people that were just casting spells and stuff I think they're all more involved than they want to admit I think they all have something to hide none of them are willing to talk to me or I don't think they're talking to anybody um none of them have asked for any kind of forgiveness for whatever their role was I I know like Larry is struggling with the idea of being able to forgive any of those people and my opinion about that is they have to ask for your forgiveness for you to be able to give it to them and they hav done that and I think they haven't done that because they're more involved than they want to admit and I wonder if there will be any further charges I've talked to the prosecution about that and I really wonder if maybe there the prosecution in Arizona or the prosecution in Idaho in Idaho okay yeah but I really wonder if any of those people will be charged with other crimes um and I don't know you know they wouldn't answer me and I don't know if that's because you know they have some kind of protection agreement because some people to a small extent cooperated or if it's because maybe they are going to charge somebody and they can't say that out loud yet well that and I I they did make a statement about what they would not be saying because a lot of information they're cooperating with the prosecutors of course in Arizona yeah the information trans or all the information transferred over so it's not like they are it's not like the case is completely over I me direct involvement is but I heard something something else new in this trial um when Charles was murdered um allegedly murdered I guess so far yeah um well with us you say murder because we don't uh we don't hold we're no we're not alleging anything yeah they um you know they were talking about all the text streams and everybody's texting everybody else and um there was somebody else involved in right during the time that Charles was murdered right before or after I don't remember um there was somebody else in that text stre who they wouldn't name in court do you guys know who that is I would love to know it would you know Alex and and Lori and uh Chad were all talk and then there was a fourth person and that's all you know is a fourth person I haven't heard this yeah I mean Nei lot of candidates yeah there's a lot of possibilities there and it could have been just you know something that didn't have anything to do with Charles's murder or it might be a really important piece of evidence then you will find out in Arizona yeah they if if it is important and if it does show up then yes that would be that would be huge so now melan give was at Lor's house that morning right so that's a a distinct possibility but I don't know did everything with her would have been face to face until after the murder because she left before that so it might have been after I honestly I don't remember it just weird the whole thing was weird with texting like all the dark spirits and Chad telling people you know hey this person's going to be punished and then zulima you need to start up a storm for this person and like just all these weird texts between all these people um and you know talking about kids being uh dark and um and Talking maybe in code or whatever I hope that we figure out in Lor's trial what was actually said what was the implications of what was said I hope it's all clear I do too I really hope it's all a little at least a little bit more clear yeah good luck to us for that yeah who knows what's going to happen with that but anyways with your new book you got to finish writing it you got to wait uh a little while uh when are we when are you expecting it to be out I don't know I just uh I've been working more on a proposal um I'm trying to find a different publisher so I've been working on that more than actually writing yeah last few weeks and you know summer time I've been out doing a lot of other things oh having a life you're having a life Tom well that's nice of you you just got back from just how was that was that with all the bikers there yeah how was that there what side did you ride up there no I was going to ride partway but we it didn't work out I ended up trailering but there's so many rides to do when you're there we we Rune into the Badlands and that's like a day in and a day out to do that whole thing um and and it's extreme heat and wind and everything and it wears you down the first thing I saw on Tik Tok about stur just the bikers there was like some kind of a huge storm ice was I mean hail was coming all these bikes were just getting just just and there was looked like a million bikes it looked like it was how many how many people were there did they say that was in Deadwood where that storm happened and the storms Happ in there there'll just be like isolated storms here and there so you might might be one town over and and nothing yeah but we missed that that storm but as far as people there that um I've heard 700 th000 and I don't know if that's accurate or not but yeah that's crazy well I I didn't mean to divert the conversation to Sturgis but I always get it excited I saw a virtual reality TV show about a guy who owned a bar in Sturgis and when that thing came to town yeah it's just went there that part that did you yeah Full Throttle Le throttle yeah yeah yeah just the uh all the statues and all the old industrial stuff they have there yeah there was I know this is way off topic but it's cool to me uh yeah there's a there's a guy that rides his motorcycle around in a circle there's a like a cylinder that he's in yeah around on yeah this guy is nuts he's just the space is just lit up and he's you know he's going as fast as he can on the motorcycle and everything but he's doing that oh my go yeah something you kind of have to see I guess yeah Rex one we have to do a live podcast from sergeon in the middle of that at one point next year that's a good idea I'll support you on that or you go ride all the way up there Adam you could brow Sean's bike maybe you don't even have to have a bike you just be a pretender you just fly in you wear you know some biker clothes you just walk around you don't even have to show them your bike you need the full experience Adam oh need the bike all right Sean I'll borrow Sean's bike yeah that's such a party going everywhere there you can just go hang out yeah just wear some biker clothes nobody will know love it well we're excited to have um you on again and love talking to you about you know the first book that's out I'm glad you're you're making money for your for your charity that's super exciting to be able to give them a check um and start writing your second book um Rex and I I don't know if we ever will write a second book other people are expecting it but you're you're you're way further than we are people people are like you guys need to write another one I like oh no yeah those are people that have never written a book yeah it's a lot of work right it's a ton of work yeah lot put yourself out there and I don't know yeah it's a lot no it is a lot it's a lot and we will say Tom we don't know what you're looking for in a publisher but we highly recommend art art publisher she was wonderful for us so okay what's bet Brown's media I can put you in touch with her if you're interested yeah but um yeah we're we're glad to do that she just she really made the book uh what would you say at a made a readable yeah she she doled it up is what I like to say a whole lot not that you don't need that th we sure do to that but I do too yeah the point is she was wonderful to work with just very um very wonderful so and she's one of our optimists so hope she's hopefully she's listening we should have just done this live Adam you know Tom what do you think of this you've done the live with us I'm thinking we switch our way of doing this Adam and just do lives and when we have a GU unless the guest doesn't want to but when we have a guest like Tom you and I talk to them for 15 20 minutes and open it up to questions yeah in know live I like that like we did at the mbor yep I always really enjoy that because I get like we were talking before some of the people who have criticism or whatever I get their response and I I really do like that and um it's also always nice to have fans yeah people that want to talk and ask questions and all that I love that yeah that's great I would do that as a matter of fact why don't we post this and then invite Tom if you don't mind you could join us on our next live and uh kind of as a followup to this and let people ask questions and if you know people were offended or or whatever let them ask let it we can talk I think your audience would be perfect for that I would love that yeah because you know our audience is nice yeah our audience wonderful you know our audience is so nice about everything so even when they disagree that they won't be disagreeable yeah exactly that's the key right yeah it really is yeah well let's do that let's post this one and then uh we usually do them on Saturday Tom um so we'll talk and we'll work that out see you're available and all that so perfect okay very good well we'll just wrap this one up Adam our our 52nd episode Tom that makes it an official 52 weeks although we didn't do one a week but uh we did two a week yeah yeah Year's worth of content year yeah and more and more yeah but you really are a very welcome guest um again Adam kn as little Adam and I don't get offended by our friends okay so you'd you'd have to go pretty far to uh to offend us we we're very supportive of your book recommended to everyone thank you um again people people have seen it we've talked about it many times on our show money power and sex the Lori Val debel trial by jur number 18 Tom Evans you get that on Amazon and not only is it a great read I have mine on my bookcase right here you're you're supporting a good cause check that out on hidden True Crime and I think that just got posted last week didn't it ton what that your visit um that was shown on it happened on Thursday and I think she posted it either later that day or Friday yeah yeah real recent so thank you Tom uh thanks to and I know part of part of your team there oh yeah even when she's not on camera yeah love too and uh thanks for with us on the episode and we'll see each other on the live thank you guys I really appreciate the time I love being on with you guys I say it every time but I always really enjoy our conversations and conversations about the boat controversial or not I I appreciate that you got all right Bud we'll see you later than guys see you later than guys see you laterwelcome to this special episode of Silver Linings podcast I'm here with Adam as we usually are you can see why I call it a special um special episode here just because we have a good friend with us we consider him a good friend um we got to know him after Lor's trial Tom Evans and his wife Susan not on the screen but um we we consider them a team uh is a lot like Lisa doesn't necessarily crave the time on the camera so um Tom's representing her and I won't even say I'm representing Lisa I we just get to see her when we see her that it's always a good thing but um we're we're excited to have Tom on because he's been very active lately and uh Tom why don't we start out I know we'll give Adam a chance to talk too but let's start out by um just explaining I think most of our optimists are hidden gems also and so they they may have seen the video you did with with Lauren and John which we loved but tell us a little bit more about your experience with your book and the proceeds of your book and what you did with them for those who may not have seen it okay yeah I think uh your listeners probably have a pretty good idea about my book we've talked about that let me put up a copy while you're topping or talking put up the cover as a matter of fact there it is um and so the reason I felt like I had to write the book when the trial was over um is that I wanted to try to get something good out of my experience as a juror um and I thought there was really a story to tell I didn't think it was a story that everybody was going to tell um my version of it might be a little bit different I wanted to tell the story of the good that I saw in the trial and not dwell as much um on the more horrible aspects of it and so it I finished it found a publisher um fortunately got it out there um and we finally got our first royalty check and we were able to um get out to our charity which is Hope House and hand it over to them and you know that was a long time coming and um a really big day for me that's exciting and if y'all haven't seen the uh video look up hidden True Crime and it says I can't remember the title exactly I should have had that pulled up along with this but um it's Tom Evans jur number 18 Adam I didn't even do a good introduction C of Tom that's why you that's why we normally have you start us off Tom of course one of the jurors in the Lorie Vala trial jur number 18 you can see that on the by line on the book cover there and uh we got to know each other a little bit after that over the book and over over Tom's service and certainly appreciate his efforts with the book and his friendship frankly he's been on on our podcast at least well hasn't been two times we did that in ID in um oh after the with Tian JJ's Memorial yeah we did that live after after the Memorial and and Tau more about this book um Tom tell us more about your experience with the reaction to this book if you would how did people receive it what are some some things you learned and appreciated from that um the reaction has been really good I and it was a concern of mine going into this um I didn't want to sensationalize the story I didn't want to take advantage of anybody and I didn't want to profit from it um and you know even so it's it's a little nerve-wracking to write about people's lives and um you guys know better than any anybody um telling what I think happened you know giving my opinion about things um to do with the church the families whatever um that's a hard thing and I hope I did it in a way that was you're talking to me still so I guess I didn't offend you guys too bad right well I know that there's people that have talked to me about your book U about things that you wrote in there things that you said like taking for instance or Deb or people like that cuz I know you interviewed a lot of people and you put their perspectives in the book uh I'm glad that you wrote a page saying that Rex and I would disagree with you on a lot of things on that well that was smart of you to do that just because Rex and I have been on here talking about how you know there's certain members of our family that we don't you you know we don't take with a grain of salt the things that they said um but since you're reporting and trying to figure out what's right and what's wrong and what happened and what didn't happen I could see on your side it's hard to try to gather information and then you try to make a education educational um thought process of what you think happened by what you took in and you talk and obviously you talk to Rex and I you know how we feel about certain things so I'm really glad that you wrote that in your book about that page you know cuz people were saying stuff that you know obviously they don't like things that Megan say that Deb says and we Rex and I have even talked about that on this podcast so um yeah writing a book is difficult because people's feelings are going to get hurt um uh people's opinion so opinions are different than facts and so I think you wrote something about Colby which were not facts they were just more opinions or what people said so some of those things get lost and people do get upset so I understand why you'd be nervous about you know somebody coming after you or saying that so yeah writing a book is difficult um but I think that you know you saying things like that like look this is what Megan said this is what Deb said um this is what Justin Lum said or whoever you're giving people credit for what they said or what you wrote so I think that was smart for you to do that thank you yeah it's um and it wasn't so much about people coming after me I'm not afraid of being criticized um and I've gotten a little criticism but mostly it's been positive um it's more my concern about hurting people that have already been hurt enough I you know that's the last thing in the world I'm trying to do did anybody in in our church say anything about things that were critical if you viewed that's possible um only I've only gotten a couple of reviews that were bad yeah um and my my take on it is those were people who were offended just at the idea that I would even talk about the Mormon church or ask any questions about it I understand that um but I hope I was fair there too that's the other thing I was really careful about is well I think there question need to be asked but I want to do it in a respectful way and I think I think that's smart and Rex and I both think that's smart and we are on a podcast uh live on Saturday where somebody had asked a question the question got deleted and Rex and I were like hey that's a legitimate question people who don't go to the Church of Jesus Christ lar Saints are interested in um what how does your church function do you actually believe this do you believe this and Rex and I we have nothing to hide I me we we we're fine explaining what what the church does their their position on it what our position is on it or whatever it is so again those are those are things that I think some people uh get defensive about right off the bat you know what I mean so th those are all like those are the the tough areas of the book for you to to be able to do that but that I don't even think like my questioning of the church it's not to um BL the church in any way and I hope that came across too it's I mean Chad and Lori Twisted um the Doctrine and Covenants of the church and use them in an unfair way yeah um I don't have any doubt about that yeah it's just are there things in in those Doctrine and Covenants that we could talk about just just so we could understand yeah well Rex is a doctor in Covenant expert so we'll turn over the Sunday School lesson to him Rex wait I just T the Sunday School lesson I'm done with church for the oh you're you're done with church no more Church once we leave church there's no more Church no we had we had people ask us that Tom people in the Church saying well what do you think about this you know and they were a little um I wouldn't even go as far as say offended but concerned but um my view is just like like Adams we know it's tough to write a book and write you know the people we have send in our book are in our family so we understand that it's stuff you know it's almost inevitable you're gonna offend someone even if you aren't trying to and even talking about it out people may get offended but I love the fact that you would write the book I love your role as a juror um and everything you put in there I think was is fair ground and you're entitled your opinion all the other people um you know that you quote in there or that you reference or entitled to their opinions Adam and I have been doing this a year now and we know there are a lot of different opinions and people tell us their opinions of people in our family and my comment to people that that question us about your book was we love Tom we loved his book and you know PE everyone there's something in there for everyone everyone can take out of it what they want but look at the service he provided for everyone just by serving on their journey and then trying to make sense of it in a book and put it out there that is just a tremendous work would you agree with everything or not is just a tremendous work and effort we appreciate that well thank you for saying that I really appreciate hearing that from you guys it's honestly it's a relief for me because I had you two guys in my head a lot as I was writing some of those things were there Square wordss involved at that time a long so about this okay no I was just I was thinking about you guys and kind of contradicting some of what you told me and um hoping that our friendship would survive that I guess well yeah so that's why that's why I brought all that up just because when you're referencing other people as a juror or somebody investigating writing a story about it you're asking a bunch of questions to a bunch of different people and you're taking in information and try to do the best you can to process what you heard and what makes sense to you um that's why this is your book so that's and any and like I said anybody can write any book they want to write right so I've told that to you know there's a lot of people say oh you should have done this you I said hey you got your own you have your own hand and paper go write your own book well and the thing is like I welcome criticism and I in conversation about it yeah you know I don't have any problem with somebody criticizing what I wrote or disagreeing with it or being offended by it um if we could just talk it out yeah I think we need a lot more of that yeah I love that communication and asking more questions and doing that yeah that's all that's all great I love like when I get somebody on Facebook will say something and you know maybe I'm kind of offended by it but I love that they're they're saying it and yeah okay let's talk about this yeah find find out more information okay let's talk give me give me your perspective in getting information and that's kind of like how I was with with uh Charles and how I was you know trying to get more information and being able to help and see what makes sense and you know when you shut people out that's the worst like and you see that a lot on YouTube and all that someone wants to make their comment and then in it and then there's a reply comment and then there's nothing there's crickets after that because they don't want to get into it instead of investigating and really talking it out and having you know Rex is great at this having conversations with people who have a way different opinion than him and him actually listening to everything that they have to say processing processing it and then allowing you know that to process for a minute and Rex can still be like well I understand now why you think that I I still disagree with you but at least I understand what you're saying why you believe that so I think that's where we're all we all need to get on that page of you know that equal uh time to hear each other out that's what of the problems with how we communicate nowadays I think is it's really easy just to shut people out who differ in their opinions and it's better to talk face to face and you know you learn when I talk to people about politics or whatever who disagree with me I learned from them if nothing else I know what the opposing side thinks and I know how how I can beat them or whatever you know yeah ex there you go take it as that um so you so talk politics then we already hit religion now let's go right into Politics the two things we don't talk about on this podcast no I will I will say though um first of all Adam thank you for what you said about me and I I know you got that impression of me by hearing me talk to your mom on things we don't agree about and other people not just my mom I I see you do this all the time and I've been close to your mom all the time we don't agree on things all the time but I still love her we're still you know still feel like we're close even when communication straight but um along with that I want I wanted to point out about you Adam um I I can't remember what the point was so I'll have to come back to it but it was a positive work dang it was it about Charles letting people talk to me no no coming you start backtracking and start talking about things that you talked about that is very positive oh no it's it is that your whole desire in writing the book and doing the podcast was to encourage people to do just that in their family hey talk have the hard conversations the difficult conversations call people out that are going off the rails and you see they're going off the rails and what what kindly encouragement that is Adam I don't know about everyone else but in our family that's that's happening and Lisa's family and and there's just no no um substitute for that type of communication I know you want to avoid in other families what happened in yours with Lori uh being able to lie to different people and split the family completely apart the immediate family the nucleus the nuclear family and that's tough to do when someone's going off the rail and people take side and people have a some type of sense of loyalty that um you know I'd rather be loyal to this person and be wrong than to keep everyone together I don't get that philosophy myself but because the thinking the well because I think the thinking of my situation would be like if I think that Lori and Alex are murderers I can't put my mind there I can't even think about that they would be involved in that so I'm taking their side so I don't have to believe that and I don't have to go through that process where I'm on the other side knowing that you know that happened and I have to go through that process by myself it's just hard it's just avoiding I think it it comes down to avoiding they just you know tried to avoid the hardness that was going to eventually they were going to have to face but they didn't want to face it right then and right there yeah I think we all have somebody in our families or most of us anyway um who's really hard to talk to maybe they they they just in their opinions they differ so much from the rest of a the rest of the family there's that one person that you you maybe don't have those conversations with because you know it's never going to end well but um even with those like you know I have that in my family and I try to find some kind of Common Ground um that we can agree on and get along together um but this is not the extreme that you guys had to suffer through but it doesn't have to be extreme these are just I mean really the reason I wrote the book and the reason we're doing this podcast for me was to get families to talk about everything because I hear from so many people everything gets swept under the rug and everybody avoids it and then an explosion happens and so it could have been avoided so let's let's switch gears and go from Lorie's book to Chad's book and you're writing this on his trial are you have you talked to any of his kids uh interviewed people around them um what what are you getting uh with writing this book I'm getting almost no response from anybody that I'm trying to contact and it's it's kind of frustrating and I was able to talk to a lot of people during the trial because I was there every day yeah and and that was really awesome um and also to get to experience the trial every day I think I was able to formulate ideas that um if I were just watching that are listening or reading about it I wouldn't be able to um formulate those same ideas uh but I'm still trying you know um I understand why people don't want to talk and I I wish they would I you know probably everybody feels this way I wish they would talk to me I think I'm I'm trying to be honest about it I'm not trying to sensationalize and I like to think that if they were going to talk to anybody it should be me what about his uh brother and sisters same thing kids brothers and sisters like anybody associated with Chad nobody says anything yeah and you know I 't pushed really hard I have had um brief conversations um with Matt and Heather um but they don't they they don't have a cousin Megan on their team no and if if they show any reluctance you know I don't want to push yeah exactly um I feel like I have uh a pretty good understanding and a lot of information to go on I wish I had some more some firsthand um conversations with some other people that I'm gonna move on without it if I can't get it but so um the book has coming along um it's it's not really a book so much about just Chad's trial as opposed to the first one being about Lor's trial it's more a book the first one was about Lor's but the second one is kind of uh more comprehensive book about the whole face because you can't really separate them I don't think right and quite a bit of new stuff came out in Chad's trial that was interesting um so you know I and I kind of changed some of my ideas or added to some of my ideas I think after sitting through Chad's trial that's a good tease for us Todd give us an example of something a perception of yours that changed from Lor's and when you wrote Lor's book to will see differently in this book if you don't mind yeah I don't know if it's so much that a percep changed I think I was trying to understand Chad trying to understand Chad and Lori um and trying to understand Lori all three separately and I it's really hard to do right and I think with Chad I realize um is is kind of the religious ring leader or whatever of this whole thing I think I understand that a little bit better Lori um not that she was a follower so much I think she was a leader in her own way she's very manipulative and all of that but I think Chad was kind of the one with the ideas I'm starting to think yeah yeah I think I think that too but you know in whether Lori and Alex you know they went along with everything Chad said and just Lori and Alex Rex and I think there's a bunch of people I do too yeah do you do you do you address that the book ton the fact that ritualistic and yes do you do you have some wild theories about that that you share in the book or that you want to share with us um about the Inner Circle yeah thatting we speculate about it from time to time we heard about casting on the on Chad's trial so that's where we started you know all these different people that were just casting spells and stuff I think they're all more involved than they want to admit I think they all have something to hide none of them are willing to talk to me or I don't think they're talking to anybody um none of them have asked for any kind of forgiveness for whatever their role was I I know like Larry is struggling with the idea of being able to forgive any of those people and my opinion about that is they have to ask for your forgiveness for you to be able to give it to them and they hav done that and I think they haven't done that because they're more involved than they want to admit and I wonder if there will be any further charges I've talked to the prosecution about that and I really wonder if maybe there the prosecution in Arizona or the prosecution in Idaho in Idaho okay yeah but I really wonder if any of those people will be charged with other crimes um and I don't know you know they wouldn't answer me and I don't know if that's because you know they have some kind of protection agreement because some people to a small extent cooperated or if it's because maybe they are going to charge somebody and they can't say that out loud yet well that and I I they did make a statement about what they would not be saying because a lot of information they're cooperating with the prosecutors of course in Arizona yeah the information trans or all the information transferred over so it's not like they are it's not like the case is completely over I me direct involvement is but I heard something something else new in this trial um when Charles was murdered um allegedly murdered I guess so far yeah um well with us you say murder because we don't uh we don't hold we're no we're not alleging anything yeah they um you know they were talking about all the text streams and everybody's texting everybody else and um there was somebody else involved in right during the time that Charles was murdered right before or after I don't remember um there was somebody else in that text stre who they wouldn't name in court do you guys know who that is I would love to know it would you know Alex and and Lori and uh Chad were all talk and then there was a fourth person and that's all you know is a fourth person I haven't heard this yeah I mean Nei lot of candidates yeah there's a lot of possibilities there and it could have been just you know something that didn't have anything to do with Charles's murder or it might be a really important piece of evidence then you will find out in Arizona yeah they if if it is important and if it does show up then yes that would be that would be huge so now melan give was at Lor's house that morning right so that's a a distinct possibility but I don't know did everything with her would have been face to face until after the murder because she left before that so it might have been after I honestly I don't remember it just weird the whole thing was weird with texting like all the dark spirits and Chad telling people you know hey this person's going to be punished and then zulima you need to start up a storm for this person and like just all these weird texts between all these people um and you know talking about kids being uh dark and um and Talking maybe in code or whatever I hope that we figure out in Lor's trial what was actually said what was the implications of what was said I hope it's all clear I do too I really hope it's all a little at least a little bit more clear yeah good luck to us for that yeah who knows what's going to happen with that but anyways with your new book you got to finish writing it you got to wait uh a little while uh when are we when are you expecting it to be out I don't know I just uh I've been working more on a proposal um I'm trying to find a different publisher so I've been working on that more than actually writing yeah last few weeks and you know summer time I've been out doing a lot of other things oh having a life you're having a life Tom well that's nice of you you just got back from just how was that was that with all the bikers there yeah how was that there what side did you ride up there no I was going to ride partway but we it didn't work out I ended up trailering but there's so many rides to do when you're there we we Rune into the Badlands and that's like a day in and a day out to do that whole thing um and and it's extreme heat and wind and everything and it wears you down the first thing I saw on Tik Tok about stur just the bikers there was like some kind of a huge storm ice was I mean hail was coming all these bikes were just getting just just and there was looked like a million bikes it looked like it was how many how many people were there did they say that was in Deadwood where that storm happened and the storms Happ in there there'll just be like isolated storms here and there so you might might be one town over and and nothing yeah but we missed that that storm but as far as people there that um I've heard 700 th000 and I don't know if that's accurate or not but yeah that's crazy well I I didn't mean to divert the conversation to Sturgis but I always get it excited I saw a virtual reality TV show about a guy who owned a bar in Sturgis and when that thing came to town yeah it's just went there that part that did you yeah Full Throttle Le throttle yeah yeah yeah just the uh all the statues and all the old industrial stuff they have there yeah there was I know this is way off topic but it's cool to me uh yeah there's a there's a guy that rides his motorcycle around in a circle there's a like a cylinder that he's in yeah around on yeah this guy is nuts he's just the space is just lit up and he's you know he's going as fast as he can on the motorcycle and everything but he's doing that oh my go yeah something you kind of have to see I guess yeah Rex one we have to do a live podcast from sergeon in the middle of that at one point next year that's a good idea I'll support you on that or you go ride all the way up there Adam you could brow Sean's bike maybe you don't even have to have a bike you just be a pretender you just fly in you wear you know some biker clothes you just walk around you don't even have to show them your bike you need the full experience Adam oh need the bike all right Sean I'll borrow Sean's bike yeah that's such a party going everywhere there you can just go hang out yeah just wear some biker clothes nobody will know love it well we're excited to have um you on again and love talking to you about you know the first book that's out I'm glad you're you're making money for your for your charity that's super exciting to be able to give them a check um and start writing your second book um Rex and I I don't know if we ever will write a second book other people are expecting it but you're you're you're way further than we are people people are like you guys need to write another one I like oh no yeah those are people that have never written a book yeah it's a lot of work right it's a ton of work yeah lot put yourself out there and I don't know yeah it's a lot no it is a lot it's a lot and we will say Tom we don't know what you're looking for in a publisher but we highly recommend art art publisher she was wonderful for us so okay what's bet Brown's media I can put you in touch with her if you're interested yeah but um yeah we're we're glad to do that she just she really made the book uh what would you say at a made a readable yeah she she doled it up is what I like to say a whole lot not that you don't need that th we sure do to that but I do too yeah the point is she was wonderful to work with just very um very wonderful so and she's one of our optimists so hope she's hopefully she's listening we should have just done this live Adam you know Tom what do you think of this you've done the live with us I'm thinking we switch our way of doing this Adam and just do lives and when we have a GU unless the guest doesn't want to but when we have a guest like Tom you and I talk to them for 15 20 minutes and open it up to questions yeah in know live I like that like we did at the mbor yep I always really enjoy that because I get like we were talking before some of the people who have criticism or whatever I get their response and I I really do like that and um it's also always nice to have fans yeah people that want to talk and ask questions and all that I love that yeah that's great I would do that as a matter of fact why don't we post this and then invite Tom if you don't mind you could join us on our next live and uh kind of as a followup to this and let people ask questions and if you know people were offended or or whatever let them ask let it we can talk I think your audience would be perfect for that I would love that yeah because you know our audience is nice yeah our audience wonderful you know our audience is so nice about everything so even when they disagree that they won't be disagreeable yeah exactly that's the key right yeah it really is yeah well let's do that let's post this one and then uh we usually do them on Saturday Tom um so we'll talk and we'll work that out see you're available and all that so perfect okay very good well we'll just wrap this one up Adam our our 52nd episode Tom that makes it an official 52 weeks although we didn't do one a week but uh we did two a week yeah yeah Year's worth of content year yeah and more and more yeah but you really are a very welcome guest um again Adam kn as little Adam and I don't get offended by our friends okay so you'd you'd have to go pretty far to uh to offend us we we're very supportive of your book recommended to everyone thank you um again people people have seen it we've talked about it many times on our show money power and sex the Lori Val debel trial by jur number 18 Tom Evans you get that on Amazon and not only is it a great read I have mine on my bookcase right here you're you're supporting a good cause check that out on hidden True Crime and I think that just got posted last week didn't it ton what that your visit um that was shown on it happened on Thursday and I think she posted it either later that day or Friday yeah yeah real recent so thank you Tom uh thanks to and I know part of part of your team there oh yeah even when she's not on camera yeah love too and uh thanks for with us on the episode and we'll see each other on the live thank you guys I really appreciate the time I love being on with you guys I say it every time but I always really enjoy our conversations and conversations about the boat controversial or not I I appreciate that you got all right Bud we'll see you later than guys see you later than guys see you later\n"