The Evolution of LMA: A Discussion on Machine Mods and their Acceptability

With the advancements in technology and innovation, various methods have been developed to improve upon traditional techniques, such as the use of big poles to bang down dough. One notable example is the use of stainless steel poles with banging devices. This concept has gained popularity over time, and many people have adopted this method, believing that it does not affect the sanctity of the act.

However, some individuals have taken it a step further by creating more advanced machines that can perform tasks that were previously done manually. For instance, someone might use a device that stands on something and is pushed down with a foot instead of pulling down on a pole with one's hand. The idea behind this modification is to increase efficiency and make the process faster, as in the case of a dough-mixing machine that can be cranked with a hand.

The question arises at what point do these improvements cross the line and become machines that are no longer acceptable under LMA law? Some people believe that if the modifications are done correctly, and they only augment human effort without replacing it entirely, then they should be considered acceptable. However, others argue that as soon as a machine is created to perform an action that was previously solely dependent on human input, it can be seen as crossing the line into unacceptable territory.

To address this concern, it's essential to consider the concept of "machines" and what constitutes one. In the context of LMA, machines are those that work by themselves without any direct human intervention. For example, if a device is created where you simply turn a wheel and the dough is mixed, but there is still some manual effort involved in the process, it can be considered acceptable.

On the other hand, if someone creates a machine that can perform an entire task, such as rolling out dough to a specific thickness, without any human input at all, then it may not be considered acceptable under LMA law. This raises questions about what constitutes a "machine" and where the line is drawn between acceptable and unacceptable modifications.

In recent years, there has been a growing trend of people creating these machine mods, often with impressive results. For instance, someone might create a device that can mix dough in 90 seconds, compared to the traditional method which takes around four to five minutes from start to finish. These machines are not only more efficient but also save time and labor, making them highly appealing to those who value productivity.

However, some individuals have expressed concerns about these machine mods, arguing that they may be considered unacceptable under LMA law. To address this concern, it's essential to consider the context in which the machine is being used. If someone creates a machine mod that only enhances human effort and does not replace it entirely, then it can be seen as acceptable.

Ultimately, the question of what constitutes an "acceptable" machine mod under LMA law depends on various factors, including the degree of automation involved, the level of human input required, and the overall intent behind the device. As our understanding of LMA continues to evolve, it's essential to engage in ongoing discussions about the role of machines in traditional practices like dough-mixing.

One possible approach is to consider a "direct result" test, where machines are only considered acceptable if they work solely through human effort and do not replace it entirely. This means that even if a machine mod makes the process faster or more efficient, as long as there is still some level of human intervention required, then it can be seen as acceptable.

In contrast, if someone creates a machine that can perform an entire task without any human input at all, then it may not be considered acceptable under LMA law. This raises questions about what constitutes a "machine" and where the line is drawn between acceptable and unacceptable modifications.

The role of humans in creating these machine mods is also essential to consider. Some individuals believe that as long as they are involved in the process and can control the machine's actions, then it's acceptable. However, others argue that if someone creates a machine mod that works independently without any human intervention, then it should not be considered acceptable.

The CRC (Committee for LMA) has taken a stance on this issue, stating that machines are only acceptable if they work solely through human effort and do not replace it entirely. However, the committee also acknowledges that there is no one-size-fits-all solution to this problem, and different situations may require different approaches.

Ultimately, the evolution of machine mods in the context of LMA highlights the ongoing debate about the role of technology in traditional practices. As our understanding of these practices continues to evolve, it's essential to engage in ongoing discussions about what constitutes an "acceptable" machine mod and how we can ensure that human effort remains a fundamental aspect of these processes.

The use of machines and automation in dough-mixing has raised questions about the sanctity of the act. While some individuals believe that as long as they are involved in the process, then it's acceptable, others argue that if someone creates a machine mod that works independently without any human intervention, then it should not be considered acceptable.

To address this concern, it's essential to consider the concept of "machines" and what constitutes one. In the context of LMA, machines are those that work by themselves without any direct human intervention. For example, if a device is created where you simply turn a wheel and the dough is mixed, but there is still some manual effort involved in the process, it can be considered acceptable.

However, if someone creates a machine that can perform an entire task, such as rolling out dough to a specific thickness, without any human input at all, then it may not be considered acceptable under LMA law. This raises questions about what constitutes a "machine" and where the line is drawn between acceptable and unacceptable modifications.

The use of machines in traditional practices like dough-mixing has also raised questions about the role of humans in these processes. Some individuals believe that as long as they are involved in the process, then it's acceptable. However, others argue that if someone creates a machine mod that works independently without any human intervention, then it should not be considered acceptable.

Ultimately, the evolution of machine mods in the context of LMA highlights the ongoing debate about the role of technology in traditional practices. As our understanding of these practices continues to evolve, it's essential to engage in ongoing discussions about what constitutes an "acceptable" machine mod and how we can ensure that human effort remains a fundamental aspect of these processes.

In conclusion, the use of machines and automation in dough-mixing has raised important questions about the sanctity of the act. While some individuals believe that as long as they are involved in the process, then it's acceptable, others argue that if someone creates a machine mod that works independently without any human intervention, then it should not be considered acceptable.

Ultimately, the key to determining what constitutes an "acceptable" machine mod under LMA law is to consider the context in which the device is being used and the level of human input required. By engaging in ongoing discussions about these issues, we can ensure that traditional practices like dough-mixing continue to thrive while also embracing the benefits of technology.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhello everyone and welcome back to let's talk kasas presented by the kasas awareness project in conjunction with Torah anytime today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi David con the administrative rabina coordinator at the CRC the Chicago rabinal Council thank you reab con for joining us once again great to be here last time you were here we spoke about shur mat mat bakes how to ensure that there's noit concerns how we spoke a lot about heat and and and ensuring that there's a cooler environment in the mataka and things of that sort today i' like to um segue into a different part of the conversation of the kis of shmur Mata hand shmur Mata for p and that is um talk about how what is the process in a hand to ensure that the mat that I buy was produced and and explain why we need because it's being used for the MIT on P yes so in order to use the um mat needs to be made LMA LMA means is that somebody watched it he watched it knowing that these would potentially be used for the MIT he had a mind might be used the mitzah but his watching was to make sure it doesn't become doesn't mean he's staring at it mean he's looking at it with an eye to say this shouldn't become and I'm cognizant that this is potentially going to be used for the Mitzvah okay in fact it's a preference you actually say it I'm making this to make it for the Mitzvah and he's doing it in a way that avoids that avoids um there's a question what part of that has what part of the of the production has to be done for for the Mitzvah does it has to be time from the k for when it's harvested from the ground when it could first become mamad from the when it's ground or from the Lea when you actually mix the flour with water when actually will become if you do nothing it will become so all hand mat is made from uh from the time of the Harvest it's always even from the time of the Harvest so that question is not so relevant to us it's always from the time of the Harvest but says what does it take to make lishma and he has two possibilities lishma mean is that the person who's watching has to have in mind that it's being done for the Mitzvah what does it mean is the person who's actually doing the labor has to have in mind that he's doing it for the Mitzvah is so the second choice is a much more difficult one the person who's doing the work has to have it or just the guy watching the Mas person keeping an eye on it and the says you should do like this for the watching that you do from the time of harvesting and of grinding the dough that could be done just by someone watching it some people have even the workers but says it's okay even the person watching but for the the from Lea and on from when the time when you mix the flower and water together that lishma has to be done that the workers the person doing the actual labor is the one who makes it lishma okay what what who who's who is that person who can make lishma who who qualifies who qualifies so the simple answer is an adult Jew that's man or woman man or woman is the same makes no difference men or women are perfectly fine but it needs to be Jewish why is someone who's not Jewish able to not able to the reason is because someone who's not going to ever eat the eat mat for the mitzvah for him we say he's not going to keep in mind that this is being done for the Mitzvah if if I made it I know about the Mitzvah I care about the Mitzvah I'm when I do it all the work that I do will be I'm the guy who mixes the flower and water I'm going to do for the for the Mitzvah the person who doesn't do the Mitzvah he doesn't care about that and that leads to an obvious question what happens when we have someone who is Jewish but he's not shabas he's not a person who's going to eat matah so he a person who doesn't care about the mitzah either but he is a person who so to speak cares about he is a Jewish person and that's a question we're going to talk about that a little bit more in a second just bear in mind that that's a question whether that person is or is not able to be do okay so um what when we say that the Lea from the time of Lea has to be L what is what exactly has to be done L from the time that you mix the flour and water so the M of R says like this he says there are three things that for sure have to be done that is Le mixing flour and water AR means arranging it meaning setting up that this flour and water should be able to be baked into something and a is the baking so three those three for sure when you say the second step that's really shaping the dough right shaping the dough once we have mixed like shaping giving it some kind of a form to it and then Bing says but there there's another step which is making the holes in it which that was we spoke about last time you make holes so that it'll bake well and not become stick says I'm not sure if that has to be done because it's not crucial to the bakon you can make bread without that you make bread and crackers without that so says you should do that okay it's not clear what the the says he's not sure what to do that says that's what you should do so those are the steps that have to be done so now now comes the question in some bakeries they have every person starting from flour water mixed together even the guy pouring in the flour and the water to make it from there all the way till it gets into the oven everyone shabas we want to make sure it's these are andas people care about the mitzah everything is done but you should know that the working in a mat Bakery is very labor intensive sure it's hard work okay this is and it's not for 5 minutes you came from kab Once for half an hour that's not what it is this is hours and hours every day morning morning tonight morning tonight for months on end okay so it's not so easy to get people your average you know shabas person is not up to that kind of work then you know much too too delicate for that kind of work um so some places are not we'll be less careful okay and they'll say is we'll take people who were not true if they shabas we'll take people who were not even so sure that they're even e at all and as and to dramatized that is I'm I'm not over dramatizing just to tell you what that is is that um I was in a bakery and they said to the people I said how do we know that people doing this part of the work are Jews he said we asked them he said to them are you Jewish and they said yes and that was enough and I contrasted that to the fact that I work at the CRC I work in the kous part but we have a bezin part to the CRC and one of the things the bezin does is write letters for people who want to go to saying this person is Jewish testing that they're Jewish they can get married and things like that and I know the kind of work that they put in to decide that someone off the street is Jewish okay to to them they're saying are you Jewish and the guy said yes that's not going to fly right so that's just a contrast of how you decided you know is that what does it take to decide other people do more more working to decide if a person is Jewish or not so um in the olden days so speak old 50 years ago we many people who listening are familiar they went into the into the mat bakeri and the the people rolling the D were these old Russian ladies okay it's hard to believe they sh shavas and Jewish R was very vague are they Jewish are they not Jewish and many places have moved past that and they use sh shabas to do all the jobs some places are still doing that uh again with more or less uh looking into people there is AA there are people out there who say is rolling is different rolling excuse me is not necessary to make a mat remember I told the mug of says I'm not sure if holes is they say rolling is it's not necessary cuz you could take the ball of don't throw so that's it's really not the simple reading I'm going problem you think that you know setting up a Mata holes is not necessary but you know the ball though is not going to be a matah so but there there are people who think like that and I'm mentioning all these ideas of of different levels because the matu you're going to eat is going to be one of these levels and you should when you want to buy a matu you should say to the ra you could say to your own ra first what's the standard I should be looking for and then which mat meet that standard if your R says it's okay rolling even if they're not is okay then you could do that if he says no I only want sh house I want people y I want whatever the standard your your R will tell you that's what you should be looking for you should say I need to find that the mat that I'm buying is that up to the standard that is considered appropriate again I'm mentioning there's all the different choices because there really are out there there are lots of people make mat in different ways and just CU it's round and has holes in it doesn't mean it came the same thing okay now that's all that in the so to speak the more simple questions simple the general questions about making mat is's a newer issue which is really an extension of old issue um which is uh like you mentioned we're talking about hand matah and that's because most people take the position that the machine matah well they at least by choice do not want to use machine matah for the Seder because they're concerned that they're not LMA okay that's many people who take that position so the question is but there's things that are in between machine matah and traditional hand matah okay and don't if I could just explain yeah uh you mentioned last time about how they used to always use wood rolling pins and then they started using stainless steel right because they thought that was an improvement that you said about the guy who does the banging you told me about the guy who does the banging with the big pole okay well they didn't have that 100 years ago that that's a idea someone said we could put this big heavy pole on a hinge and we can make a banging so people make improvements so the question is at what point do those improvements cross the line and become more like a machine that's not anymore so we don't want a machine that makes the mat we say a machine who makes it the machine can't have in mind maybe yes maybe not but we assuming that it can't so at what point do our improvements that we made cross the line and become oh this is like a machine and it can't anymore so this this's come in recent years so those I just mentioned about the stainless steel pole and the banging with with with the thing with the uh or the putting disposable paper on the table because get rid of the crumbs at at the end of each thing most people go along with that most people think that that doesn't affect a being lishma but there's been a a type of mods that's been made which is they say like this instead of a guy using this big Pole to bang down your feet are more powerful than your hands are so we're going to make something where the do goes stands on something and I push down on the device with my foot instead of pulling down on the pole with my hand P smashes the dough so it's the same action that I take but my foot is more powerful than my hand and I can do a better job so is that is that considered okay what happens if the pole itself the pole that I bang down after I bang it down I have to pick it back up well when you pick it up you're not um picking up is not part of the matah that's just getting ready so you can bang it again so how about if that part is mechanized I make that work that I don't have to do a little of labor but what happens if what happens if instead of rolling the dough like this with a rolling pin like this I take the dough and I put it between two rollers and I crank it with my hand so that is energy-wise that's more efficient and I can make I can make the the Mata faster um and so is that better or is that are we getting into our machine mods over here so the people who do these devices not only they more efficient that they save you money because if it's more efficient means it's going to C there less labor it cost less but those people can get from the mixing flow water till the oven in 90 seconds they can make so they what we talked about last time avoiding KET they can get it in 90 seconds it can go from here to here it's a really fast process regular Ms takes four five minutes from the time you at flow water so we can avoid a lot of waiting we can get right into the oven but some people say but that's not LMA so that's a question um what's the crc's policy on to be acceptable it is acceptable okay if it's done correctly I I I I I'll just caution that it's if it's done correctly what I mean is we want to make sure that everything is a direct result of the person's action so when I stamp down on my foot and I get the DOTA mix my stamp need should make it happen if I don't stamp it won't go by itself we don't want it to work by itself that it's just doing it I when I turn the wheel if I let go of the wheel it doesn't keep turning by itself so we want we we watch it to make sure but assuming it's done correctly then our po have said that that's fine other people didn't that other people said is said we don't want any machines we don't want to without I'm not going to explain we just not so if they don't want to eat it so they also should know I'm telling you up front what we do we we don't hide what we're doing we tell them what we're doing if you think if your R tells you that's not the stand you should eat go ahead eat a different mindset but that's really the point of everything I'm saying which is there are a lot of different ways to do this um there's trade-offs and advantages and disadvantages and there's of questions and a person should ask their what they should do and then find out the mat that they're buying what stand that meets before they eat it fascinating thank you so much for this uh background into LMA H and now feel is that our H should indeed manifest itself in the highest level of hi when it comes to such a precious Mitzvah and we thank you for all your efforts to raise the bar and to raise the level and to educate us regarding this important topic thank you forhello everyone and welcome back to let's talk kasas presented by the kasas awareness project in conjunction with Torah anytime today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi David con the administrative rabina coordinator at the CRC the Chicago rabinal Council thank you reab con for joining us once again great to be here last time you were here we spoke about shur mat mat bakes how to ensure that there's noit concerns how we spoke a lot about heat and and and ensuring that there's a cooler environment in the mataka and things of that sort today i' like to um segue into a different part of the conversation of the kis of shmur Mata hand shmur Mata for p and that is um talk about how what is the process in a hand to ensure that the mat that I buy was produced and and explain why we need because it's being used for the MIT on P yes so in order to use the um mat needs to be made LMA LMA means is that somebody watched it he watched it knowing that these would potentially be used for the MIT he had a mind might be used the mitzah but his watching was to make sure it doesn't become doesn't mean he's staring at it mean he's looking at it with an eye to say this shouldn't become and I'm cognizant that this is potentially going to be used for the Mitzvah okay in fact it's a preference you actually say it I'm making this to make it for the Mitzvah and he's doing it in a way that avoids that avoids um there's a question what part of that has what part of the of the production has to be done for for the Mitzvah does it has to be time from the k for when it's harvested from the ground when it could first become mamad from the when it's ground or from the Lea when you actually mix the flour with water when actually will become if you do nothing it will become so all hand mat is made from uh from the time of the Harvest it's always even from the time of the Harvest so that question is not so relevant to us it's always from the time of the Harvest but says what does it take to make lishma and he has two possibilities lishma mean is that the person who's watching has to have in mind that it's being done for the Mitzvah what does it mean is the person who's actually doing the labor has to have in mind that he's doing it for the Mitzvah is so the second choice is a much more difficult one the person who's doing the work has to have it or just the guy watching the Mas person keeping an eye on it and the says you should do like this for the watching that you do from the time of harvesting and of grinding the dough that could be done just by someone watching it some people have even the workers but says it's okay even the person watching but for the the from Lea and on from when the time when you mix the flower and water together that lishma has to be done that the workers the person doing the actual labor is the one who makes it lishma okay what what who who's who is that person who can make lishma who who qualifies who qualifies so the simple answer is an adult Jew that's man or woman man or woman is the same makes no difference men or women are perfectly fine but it needs to be Jewish why is someone who's not Jewish able to not able to the reason is because someone who's not going to ever eat the eat mat for the mitzvah for him we say he's not going to keep in mind that this is being done for the Mitzvah if if I made it I know about the Mitzvah I care about the Mitzvah I'm when I do it all the work that I do will be I'm the guy who mixes the flower and water I'm going to do for the for the Mitzvah the person who doesn't do the Mitzvah he doesn't care about that and that leads to an obvious question what happens when we have someone who is Jewish but he's not shabas he's not a person who's going to eat matah so he a person who doesn't care about the mitzah either but he is a person who so to speak cares about he is a Jewish person and that's a question we're going to talk about that a little bit more in a second just bear in mind that that's a question whether that person is or is not able to be do okay so um what when we say that the Lea from the time of Lea has to be L what is what exactly has to be done L from the time that you mix the flour and water so the M of R says like this he says there are three things that for sure have to be done that is Le mixing flour and water AR means arranging it meaning setting up that this flour and water should be able to be baked into something and a is the baking so three those three for sure when you say the second step that's really shaping the dough right shaping the dough once we have mixed like shaping giving it some kind of a form to it and then Bing says but there there's another step which is making the holes in it which that was we spoke about last time you make holes so that it'll bake well and not become stick says I'm not sure if that has to be done because it's not crucial to the bakon you can make bread without that you make bread and crackers without that so says you should do that okay it's not clear what the the says he's not sure what to do that says that's what you should do so those are the steps that have to be done so now now comes the question in some bakeries they have every person starting from flour water mixed together even the guy pouring in the flour and the water to make it from there all the way till it gets into the oven everyone shabas we want to make sure it's these are andas people care about the mitzah everything is done but you should know that the working in a mat Bakery is very labor intensive sure it's hard work okay this is and it's not for 5 minutes you came from kab Once for half an hour that's not what it is this is hours and hours every day morning morning tonight morning tonight for months on end okay so it's not so easy to get people your average you know shabas person is not up to that kind of work then you know much too too delicate for that kind of work um so some places are not we'll be less careful okay and they'll say is we'll take people who were not true if they shabas we'll take people who were not even so sure that they're even e at all and as and to dramatized that is I'm I'm not over dramatizing just to tell you what that is is that um I was in a bakery and they said to the people I said how do we know that people doing this part of the work are Jews he said we asked them he said to them are you Jewish and they said yes and that was enough and I contrasted that to the fact that I work at the CRC I work in the kous part but we have a bezin part to the CRC and one of the things the bezin does is write letters for people who want to go to saying this person is Jewish testing that they're Jewish they can get married and things like that and I know the kind of work that they put in to decide that someone off the street is Jewish okay to to them they're saying are you Jewish and the guy said yes that's not going to fly right so that's just a contrast of how you decided you know is that what does it take to decide other people do more more working to decide if a person is Jewish or not so um in the olden days so speak old 50 years ago we many people who listening are familiar they went into the into the mat bakeri and the the people rolling the D were these old Russian ladies okay it's hard to believe they sh shavas and Jewish R was very vague are they Jewish are they not Jewish and many places have moved past that and they use sh shabas to do all the jobs some places are still doing that uh again with more or less uh looking into people there is AA there are people out there who say is rolling is different rolling excuse me is not necessary to make a mat remember I told the mug of says I'm not sure if holes is they say rolling is it's not necessary cuz you could take the ball of don't throw so that's it's really not the simple reading I'm going problem you think that you know setting up a Mata holes is not necessary but you know the ball though is not going to be a matah so but there there are people who think like that and I'm mentioning all these ideas of of different levels because the matu you're going to eat is going to be one of these levels and you should when you want to buy a matu you should say to the ra you could say to your own ra first what's the standard I should be looking for and then which mat meet that standard if your R says it's okay rolling even if they're not is okay then you could do that if he says no I only want sh house I want people y I want whatever the standard your your R will tell you that's what you should be looking for you should say I need to find that the mat that I'm buying is that up to the standard that is considered appropriate again I'm mentioning there's all the different choices because there really are out there there are lots of people make mat in different ways and just CU it's round and has holes in it doesn't mean it came the same thing okay now that's all that in the so to speak the more simple questions simple the general questions about making mat is's a newer issue which is really an extension of old issue um which is uh like you mentioned we're talking about hand matah and that's because most people take the position that the machine matah well they at least by choice do not want to use machine matah for the Seder because they're concerned that they're not LMA okay that's many people who take that position so the question is but there's things that are in between machine matah and traditional hand matah okay and don't if I could just explain yeah uh you mentioned last time about how they used to always use wood rolling pins and then they started using stainless steel right because they thought that was an improvement that you said about the guy who does the banging you told me about the guy who does the banging with the big pole okay well they didn't have that 100 years ago that that's a idea someone said we could put this big heavy pole on a hinge and we can make a banging so people make improvements so the question is at what point do those improvements cross the line and become more like a machine that's not anymore so we don't want a machine that makes the mat we say a machine who makes it the machine can't have in mind maybe yes maybe not but we assuming that it can't so at what point do our improvements that we made cross the line and become oh this is like a machine and it can't anymore so this this's come in recent years so those I just mentioned about the stainless steel pole and the banging with with with the thing with the uh or the putting disposable paper on the table because get rid of the crumbs at at the end of each thing most people go along with that most people think that that doesn't affect a being lishma but there's been a a type of mods that's been made which is they say like this instead of a guy using this big Pole to bang down your feet are more powerful than your hands are so we're going to make something where the do goes stands on something and I push down on the device with my foot instead of pulling down on the pole with my hand P smashes the dough so it's the same action that I take but my foot is more powerful than my hand and I can do a better job so is that is that considered okay what happens if the pole itself the pole that I bang down after I bang it down I have to pick it back up well when you pick it up you're not um picking up is not part of the matah that's just getting ready so you can bang it again so how about if that part is mechanized I make that work that I don't have to do a little of labor but what happens if what happens if instead of rolling the dough like this with a rolling pin like this I take the dough and I put it between two rollers and I crank it with my hand so that is energy-wise that's more efficient and I can make I can make the the Mata faster um and so is that better or is that are we getting into our machine mods over here so the people who do these devices not only they more efficient that they save you money because if it's more efficient means it's going to C there less labor it cost less but those people can get from the mixing flow water till the oven in 90 seconds they can make so they what we talked about last time avoiding KET they can get it in 90 seconds it can go from here to here it's a really fast process regular Ms takes four five minutes from the time you at flow water so we can avoid a lot of waiting we can get right into the oven but some people say but that's not LMA so that's a question um what's the crc's policy on to be acceptable it is acceptable okay if it's done correctly I I I I I'll just caution that it's if it's done correctly what I mean is we want to make sure that everything is a direct result of the person's action so when I stamp down on my foot and I get the DOTA mix my stamp need should make it happen if I don't stamp it won't go by itself we don't want it to work by itself that it's just doing it I when I turn the wheel if I let go of the wheel it doesn't keep turning by itself so we want we we watch it to make sure but assuming it's done correctly then our po have said that that's fine other people didn't that other people said is said we don't want any machines we don't want to without I'm not going to explain we just not so if they don't want to eat it so they also should know I'm telling you up front what we do we we don't hide what we're doing we tell them what we're doing if you think if your R tells you that's not the stand you should eat go ahead eat a different mindset but that's really the point of everything I'm saying which is there are a lot of different ways to do this um there's trade-offs and advantages and disadvantages and there's of questions and a person should ask their what they should do and then find out the mat that they're buying what stand that meets before they eat it fascinating thank you so much for this uh background into LMA H and now feel is that our H should indeed manifest itself in the highest level of hi when it comes to such a precious Mitzvah and we thank you for all your efforts to raise the bar and to raise the level and to educate us regarding this important topic thank you for\n"