"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhow would you create the perfect M car now BMW's M division which originally started making racing cars has made all kinds of cars over the last 50 years it's made small cars big cars Saloon cars Coupes Roasters even recently SUVs and mostly they've had the engine in the front but sometimes it's been in the middle they beat rear wheel drive they've been four-wheel drive it's had four six eight ten cylinder engines and even recently electric motors which got us thinking if you were to make the perfect M car what would it be so that's why you find us here indulging in two of our favorite things which is driving cars and then having a good old natter over a cup of tea and we've gathered together some of the most significant some of the best cars in the Brand's history and we're going to get under their skin and see what makes them tick foreign whatever happens in our ideal m car that's the horn we're having that's amazing all right so we start in the original you've never driven one of these have you I have not no no I'm admired from afar so this is quite exciting for me so this is very different from almost every Other M car isn't it I mean it's the first one and it's the most out on a limb I'd argue yeah I think that's probably no I mean yeah it's a supercars if not generally supercars no they have the performance yeah fish around some gears fishing gears it's got some gears in there somewhere now that's good point so when we're making an M car our perfect m we need to decide on things like what it's powered by yeah where that's going to be what wheels are driven yeah manual or automatic yep how many seats what size yes there's a lot going on isn't it there's a lot to choose from I already like this engine quite a lot yeah so it's what turn 270 something horsepower I think it's not massive is it it's not a big car no that's the nice I mean Supercar these days would be much much bigger than this well can you imagine getting into a Supercar you've never driven before left-hand drive car in this country it would feel quite intimidating wouldn't it you think so and this does not no now you've got lovely thin pillars disability is very good I mean it's even out the back you've got the engine covers area isn't it there is a lot of glass area so our Perfect 10 car right yeah so just this it's getting close I mean there are some there are some flaws here I mean it's not very practical it's not very practical I struggle with we must have known what shape we were back in the day so why why are my feet all the way over here to the right yeah we asked it we are sitting yeah in a V the steering wheel's in my lap and obviously I can't adjust that so I'm having to sit kind of display legged but in terms of it's weird the character of the car it doesn't feel M I know that sounds very strange and I know what we expect of a high performance car in terms of Dynamics has changed a lot but it's quite soft rolls quite a lot in corners but that engine is a definite one of those defining characteristics of an M car that's got to be its engines yeah I think I think you're right yeah you get the feeling this card well it did set the tone I mean this engine ended up in the first M5 didn't it I think and the m635 CSI okay yeah good I think we've I think we've got some bits out of this that we've definitely got what it is if we're starting to take a shape of an M car I think this definitely the place this is definitely the place to start yeah so wait that's the M1 it is uh okay so Audrey member yep it's one of these well pretty good isn't it it's pretty good isn't it um should we have four wheels I think a perfect start I'm like a Morgan freewheeler but let's have four wheelers I don't know where yet you'd have the engine dynamically speaking in the middle that should be the perfect place for it but it's such an outlier in the rest of the M kind of genealogy but until we drive the other ones I'm not sure if that is a defining characteristic of something that's that's great but that engine on the other hand what do we like about that I love the end I love the induction noise it sounds terrific the response is really good the right sort of power level I will come to exact power level of weight and size maybe later but but yeah for something in that which is just really just goes yeah I want all that off and also I love these wheels they are absolutely beautiful I mean it's all Italian isn't it yeah from the top to bottom and those wheels are the most Italian bit of it all right well we'll jump in at M3 E30 M3 one more thing horn huh it's got to have a horn like that perfect good to mention that that is that it's probably the most Italian bit after the wheels the whole thing yeah amazing perfect foreign well right so this is the M3 yes E30 generation yeah this is the original M3 the one the one on which all others yeah indeed are judged yeah yeah there's gonna be quite a lot to take away from this car I suspect yeah the people do Rave about this car as such a definitive thing I still think this chassis is up there there's a road chassis it feels a bit so compact yeah because it is visibility is fantastic yeah gear shift is nice yeah steering is completely uncorrupted Yeah by anything that's going on underneath I just I've just got it's it's accurate yeah it's not giving me any bad feedback at all it's just telling me what the problem is doing yeah really good so in terms of the Dynamics the size the visibility I mean there's a lot that this car offers that will be my perfect quick Road car I think yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well given my perfect Road car of the past decade my favorite road the last decade has probably been the Toyota GT86 yep there's quite a lot in common if you're not okay uh between these two in terms of ethos and concept I suppose you know four seats but don't worry about the rear seats too much yeah good visibility compact size front engine rear wheel drive limited slip differential 200-ish horsepower yep manual gearbox yeah there's a lot that I want in my perfect driver's car that is in this car and just a striking similarity with the GT86 as well is that the engine it's not all that really is it it's funny that isn't it no I mean I guess it was because and that's some obligation reasons really I suppose it's just it's that was the engine though that was the size of engine they race with yeah so you just had to take the road car engine and make it a a an engine it's quite a special engine in the you know it's bespoke to the car isn't it you don't find it anywhere else except if you're feeling really guilty geeky in the Italian market 320 is which had a sleeve down version of this engine stop it in a narrow body to make tax regulations but anyway this is a 2.3 is it yeah this is 2.3 and they went out to 2.5 I mean it's reasonably effective and when you wind it up it does go some yeah and I won't wind it up too much no it's a 30 year old car at 85 000 but yeah I just then revving it through the range yeah it's a way to make progress yeah I'm not sure that this engine will be in my perfect M car no but the but I'm getting a I mean we've driven two cars now and I'm starting to get a yeah feel for what I would really want at him wanting an M exactly and there's a I think there's a lot of this maybe more in this than in the M1 to an extent too I don't think so I think so now this and this goes back to that weird place the M1 occupies because by the time they got the M3 they're just they kind of had a mission and it was Motorsport was definitely the mission and that and I don't know whether that's going to fall apart of our ideal Empire because this a lot of what makes this car so great is it's dripping with Motorsport cred isn't it I mean it it won the world Touring Car Championship won numerous European touring car championships have won the British Touring Car Championship it won the uh tour of course rally in 1987. oh it's hard not to be sort of carried away so uh mate what have we learned well I don't know about you but I quite like this one I've got this one too though it's it's seen as the definitive M car for many people and it's not hard to see why yeah maybe we've learned actually that it maybe the perfect M does have more than four cylinders yes I think so this is uh it's an effective engine when you wind it up but it's not a very charismatic one is it yeah you don't you wind it up because you want to get to where you're going quicker not because you want to hear it again yeah yeah but I love the compactness particularly the visibility again and the compactness they cut it can't be much more than 4.2 4.3 meters long something like that yeah and it's got to be one I don't know no more than 1800 mil one that's a big top end of the guesstimation yeah I reckon yeah yeah so it feels just the right size it gives you options on the road doesn't it the driver position is not perfect maybe we need to I think when you try something more modern because I think that's that's a that's part of his age isn't it yeah it's not his fault yeah all right let's travel more love it this is of course an M3 CSL it is E40 six well done yes actually I didn't know that uh which means uh it's it's this is a 2000 three four cars 2003 I think not many in the UK in fact just 422 in the UK it says uh in that on that list that's handy that's that's when you don't need to do research yeah exactly it's my preferred kind of research is somebody presenting things to me is really helpful so this this is quite a special car I remember this is yeah this has a kind of interesting place of the M hierarchy because I seem to remember when this car came out just a little bit before my time it was sort of derided and loud in any pleasure wasn't it was it because it had a couple twos was that was it the first iteration of the cup maybe it wasn't even cut two tires right and then he had to sign a disclaimer saying I put these tires on the car and I understand if I throw it off the road it's totally my fault I look out yeah for using stupid tires on the road and then it had the cardboard rear boot fraud and it that kind of fired us yeah to save weight yeah and so lots of people I guess a bit like the current M2 CS wondered why am I paying quite a lot more for a car that if it rains is lethal and doesn't have as much start we were all listening somebody does have a CD player it does have a CD player I just went to on that note mate I just went as you were gonna approach the corner I went to put my arm on an armrest and of course there isn't one no because it's just got a carbon fiber door card but it's over the years it's sort of Taken on a bit of a cool station but one of the reasons is staying up front oh well sorry to interrupt you there no no breaking news breaking news gone this engine is absolutely Sublime I mean into that age guys he just pulls from everywhere sounds sensational and it's got this gearbox and it's got this so there are purists there are BMW enthusiasts you swear by swear by but they they will say no this gearbox is what it had yeah you should learn to love it for what it has you should learn to love that gearbox yeah I mean I'm not sure on this side actually it doesn't it feels pretty good right I'm I'm actually so that's why I was trying there I'm actually flipping the Throttle Down shifts yeah and then you can you can smooth it out and if you just give it a little lift on up shift as well because if you don't lift on up shift yeah it's not very nice yeah exactly but the way you've been driving it I it feels as nice as if you've been driving a manual well you know to me weirdly I think there's something quite nice about that it's an extra layer of interaction between the car or the driver I'm not saying it would be in my perfect game car okay chassis is pretty snorky as well yeah I was lucky enough to drive one of these on a track and the balance is just the balance is perfect yeah E30 steering with the balance of this car nice with this Engine with this engine this engine I'm I'm putting in an early shout first this being high up on the list of things we should have in our perfect end call because it is it's a stunning stunning engine what have we learned uh well in terms of size yeah I think I felt this was as big as I'd like on the road yeah so if you can scale it back a little bit perfect towards an E30 size I think so which we've looked up since we last spoke which says and it's 4.3 just uh yeah just 4.3 and it's just under 1.7 wide that's really narrow yeah I think it's perfect crystallized my belief that we'd probably want a good induction at six at least a six induction noise definitely and the the way it goes down the road this level of performance I think is it too much it's getting close to too much but I think it's just it's just the right side of acceptable it's it's fast enough that you know you're going quickly but the balance of this thing is superb and I think that may be remind me about 3 30 3 2 1 something like that three three it's around maybe so if it were 300 ish yeah and it was 1300 kilos ish yeah I work with the size that we'll be talking about yeah peachy I've not driven one of these you've got all in with the harness I've gone all in with the harness I thought I've not driven one of these before Let's Go the whole GTS experience all nine yards and put it on uh you've obviously sensibly just put well seatbelt with road cars mate I just can't be honest and maybe that could be something I'm sensing that could be something about this car yeah possibly given that we're heading out on the road in it I mean there's no two-way to cut it this is quite an extreme take on the M3 concept and as I said I kind of missed out on it when it was new due to various circumstances so I'm very keen to see what it was because again it's quite a divisive car isn't it it has some people down on all down on the knees sort of bowing before it yeah and some utterly bemused as to why it exists I like it I've got to say it I'm quite a big fan yeah it feels light and although it's V8 powered it doesn't feel heavy and not big and you know and it doesn't feel I mean it does feel sort of sort of too quick for the road it's got 444 break I think yeah he strolls on a bit and it sounds nice it does sound good I yeah I know the CSL has that Zing but this has got a deeper yeah no of induction which I'm not immersed to this this is a tricky one um yeah I really like it but I don't know what elements I would necessarily take from it over some of the stuff we've already driven it's a great thing is it an um is it gonna does it distill the bits of him that we feel should make a good emperor right so M3 GTS yeah what do we think about this well I like it yeah I like it okay fine I think yeah I think you're right the engine's probably in the front yeah because it's got a great balance again really great balance again um is it too impractical for an M car I mean I know we've got an M1 on it so that has a little bit how practical that is but this if you're gonna if you're gonna get a car of this shape with an engine in the front yeah should you have for me I would I think I'd like it to have four seats yeah yeah this drives surprisingly well if that makes sense for the road it looks like it's going to be a head banger and it's not it's actually quite well resolved but for me roll cage and everything it feels like it's drifting too far into GT Porsche territory and easy to oh it's got loads of power yeah 450 break so four four four thirty three fifty there's CSL and that's to the M3 is 250.50 yeah and this is just over 1500 kilos that's just under 1400 kilos and that's 1200 kilos so if I said to you 300 break horsepower and 1300 kilos would that sound right I'd say that sounds a bit better so why don't we go and drive something with much more of both excellent Let's test that theory get a BMW M5 yes CS yes so this I guess this is I don't know is this the Pinnacle of the pure internal combustion engine M car well this is where we are we're at and this is the newest and the great the latest and greatest most powerful I believe purely internally combusters that right with me this has been very popular hasn't it this has got five auto car road test stuff it has yes but my thing is my my perfect M car is usually a little bit smaller than this but this is very agile yeah for a car of its size and weight it's a big car I mean a five the current Five series is a large car it is and this is the thing that hangs over it so I have also read those reviews yeah and I was expecting big things I've I've not been a fan of the increasing size of an M5 no and I just so I I think the sports Saloon such as it is comes of comes of age it comes into its own a class smaller than yes a five and in fact a current through M3 or M4 is getting towards the top end of the size I would I would like it it deserves its five-star road test because it is exceptional what it's able to do yeah given free reign shouldn't handle and feel as nimble and as easy to play so something that's big and heavy should but I'm not sure there's anything I would take necessarily from this into my perfect distilled M and that's that is true Maybe if you if you're being generous yeah I I feel that my perfect hair needs to have some sort of usability to it it leads to oh and there is no more usable yeah so it's quite big it is very big I like it I mean I like it a lot there's great things about it but let's just let's so we now try two V8s we've tried two six others we tried four how many cylinders do you think we want me personally I think six I'm actually aspirated as well because this is Turbo Charge isn't it yeah and it's phenomenally fast but it's too fast and as with the e92 we're getting into the Realms of too fast to the road really yeah all right done okay and more contentiously perhaps what gearbox are having do you know what it's it feels sacrilegious on a driver's car but but I don't feel the manual any of the manual gearboxes we tried are ones that you just want to click around the gate for the hell of it but I think you're probably right if we're getting to the weight and performance we're thinking of yeah I think a a good DCT with paddle shifters would be quite nice I don't I don't know I think a matter what not necessarily a BMW manual well that's the thing yeah so if we've got to have a BMW manual a BMW gearbox yeah maybe we've got a Twitter but I'd like to have a manual should we just try one more car and then decide after that I think so because we might go oh it's all got the electric matters and hell to hell for the rest let's find out iconic sounds yeah yeah is that an iconic sound to you that is not an iconic set well it might be an iconic sound I just don't know what it's an iconic sound of how him is the is the i4m well M sport Technologies I think it has M sport influence so it's like an m to three five I rather than an M2 yeah so I think they kind of go over kick the tires the air and go yeah okay we're happy with that yeah that's what iconic sounds exactly what's my kind of you can put our wing mirrors on it and some iconic sounds so it's a sort of a half M rather than a foot yeah let's say but interesting because it's the first m oh now that yeah I enjoyed that more with the without the sound yeah so it steers quite nicely steering's got decent heft expansive turns in nicely there's clearly lots of grip there yeah there seems to be control I mean you can feel the weight the mass yeah it's very quick it's very quick like they all are I mean it it's very effective but nothing is screaming in car there's somebody initial thinking there's nothing inherent in an engine in terms of question engine for which the engagement of handling to patents yeah you know you could if you with two well set up Motors at the rear replicating the best of what a limited slip differential and rear wheel drive does that would be as good as if not better then because the response is so much quicker than an engine would give you but somehow today this feels notably less engaging than yeah the other stuff we've driven I don't know what to make that I don't know what I'm taking from this and putting in the ultimate m uh right what have we learned let's be generous here this isn't a full fat M carry no it's not no it's not M bits M technology whatever you like to call it on a bigger saloon car yeah and yeah fine I'm I there are bits I like very much yeah it's very fast it's very really fast composed just stirs quite nicely yeah but in terms of my I'm going to leave the sketches alone because I think I'm happy for where we got to I think so yes so let's go for a manual let's go for a manual so that's it that's the specification decided we're going to take all of this and we're going to get to our Magic picture editor Ben and he's gonna do a rendering a bendering if you will and we will come up with the perfect M car so here it is and when you just look at it this is what we think the perfect M car could be like that's a two-door coupe a slight mashup of some other M design cues that you might recognize here and there it's a car that is a bit over four meters long it's under 1.8 meters wide and it has a cabin that seats four or thereabouts now to our minds it has a naturally aspirated straight six-cylinder engine under the Bonnet probably three liters making 300 ish horsepower and it weighs all in about 1300 kilograms it would have a manual gearbox be rear-wheel drive and have a limited slip differential then of course it gets those Splendid campagnola wheels and ha the best horn in Christendom and that's that so thank you for joining us for this special m50th anniversary video there are loads more vids on this channel we are at autocar.co.uk we've got podcasts social channels the magazine is on digital subscription which makes an excellent gift by the way Antarctica is in print as it has been every week since 1895. so thank you for watching we would love an up thumb and a subscription to this YouTube channel that would be amazing and until then see you next time foreignhow would you create the perfect M car now BMW's M division which originally started making racing cars has made all kinds of cars over the last 50 years it's made small cars big cars Saloon cars Coupes Roasters even recently SUVs and mostly they've had the engine in the front but sometimes it's been in the middle they beat rear wheel drive they've been four-wheel drive it's had four six eight ten cylinder engines and even recently electric motors which got us thinking if you were to make the perfect M car what would it be so that's why you find us here indulging in two of our favorite things which is driving cars and then having a good old natter over a cup of tea and we've gathered together some of the most significant some of the best cars in the Brand's history and we're going to get under their skin and see what makes them tick foreign whatever happens in our ideal m car that's the horn we're having that's amazing all right so we start in the original you've never driven one of these have you I have not no no I'm admired from afar so this is quite exciting for me so this is very different from almost every Other M car isn't it I mean it's the first one and it's the most out on a limb I'd argue yeah I think that's probably no I mean yeah it's a supercars if not generally supercars no they have the performance yeah fish around some gears fishing gears it's got some gears in there somewhere now that's good point so when we're making an M car our perfect m we need to decide on things like what it's powered by yeah where that's going to be what wheels are driven yeah manual or automatic yep how many seats what size yes there's a lot going on isn't it there's a lot to choose from I already like this engine quite a lot yeah so it's what turn 270 something horsepower I think it's not massive is it it's not a big car no that's the nice I mean Supercar these days would be much much bigger than this well can you imagine getting into a Supercar you've never driven before left-hand drive car in this country it would feel quite intimidating wouldn't it you think so and this does not no now you've got lovely thin pillars disability is very good I mean it's even out the back you've got the engine covers area isn't it there is a lot of glass area so our Perfect 10 car right yeah so just this it's getting close I mean there are some there are some flaws here I mean it's not very practical it's not very practical I struggle with we must have known what shape we were back in the day so why why are my feet all the way over here to the right yeah we asked it we are sitting yeah in a V the steering wheel's in my lap and obviously I can't adjust that so I'm having to sit kind of display legged but in terms of it's weird the character of the car it doesn't feel M I know that sounds very strange and I know what we expect of a high performance car in terms of Dynamics has changed a lot but it's quite soft rolls quite a lot in corners but that engine is a definite one of those defining characteristics of an M car that's got to be its engines yeah I think I think you're right yeah you get the feeling this card well it did set the tone I mean this engine ended up in the first M5 didn't it I think and the m635 CSI okay yeah good I think we've I think we've got some bits out of this that we've definitely got what it is if we're starting to take a shape of an M car I think this definitely the place this is definitely the place to start yeah so wait that's the M1 it is uh okay so Audrey member yep it's one of these well pretty good isn't it it's pretty good isn't it um should we have four wheels I think a perfect start I'm like a Morgan freewheeler but let's have four wheelers I don't know where yet you'd have the engine dynamically speaking in the middle that should be the perfect place for it but it's such an outlier in the rest of the M kind of genealogy but until we drive the other ones I'm not sure if that is a defining characteristic of something that's that's great but that engine on the other hand what do we like about that I love the end I love the induction noise it sounds terrific the response is really good the right sort of power level I will come to exact power level of weight and size maybe later but but yeah for something in that which is just really just goes yeah I want all that off and also I love these wheels they are absolutely beautiful I mean it's all Italian isn't it yeah from the top to bottom and those wheels are the most Italian bit of it all right well we'll jump in at M3 E30 M3 one more thing horn huh it's got to have a horn like that perfect good to mention that that is that it's probably the most Italian bit after the wheels the whole thing yeah amazing perfect foreign well right so this is the M3 yes E30 generation yeah this is the original M3 the one the one on which all others yeah indeed are judged yeah yeah there's gonna be quite a lot to take away from this car I suspect yeah the people do Rave about this car as such a definitive thing I still think this chassis is up there there's a road chassis it feels a bit so compact yeah because it is visibility is fantastic yeah gear shift is nice yeah steering is completely uncorrupted Yeah by anything that's going on underneath I just I've just got it's it's accurate yeah it's not giving me any bad feedback at all it's just telling me what the problem is doing yeah really good so in terms of the Dynamics the size the visibility I mean there's a lot that this car offers that will be my perfect quick Road car I think yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well given my perfect Road car of the past decade my favorite road the last decade has probably been the Toyota GT86 yep there's quite a lot in common if you're not okay uh between these two in terms of ethos and concept I suppose you know four seats but don't worry about the rear seats too much yeah good visibility compact size front engine rear wheel drive limited slip differential 200-ish horsepower yep manual gearbox yeah there's a lot that I want in my perfect driver's car that is in this car and just a striking similarity with the GT86 as well is that the engine it's not all that really is it it's funny that isn't it no I mean I guess it was because and that's some obligation reasons really I suppose it's just it's that was the engine though that was the size of engine they race with yeah so you just had to take the road car engine and make it a a an engine it's quite a special engine in the you know it's bespoke to the car isn't it you don't find it anywhere else except if you're feeling really guilty geeky in the Italian market 320 is which had a sleeve down version of this engine stop it in a narrow body to make tax regulations but anyway this is a 2.3 is it yeah this is 2.3 and they went out to 2.5 I mean it's reasonably effective and when you wind it up it does go some yeah and I won't wind it up too much no it's a 30 year old car at 85 000 but yeah I just then revving it through the range yeah it's a way to make progress yeah I'm not sure that this engine will be in my perfect M car no but the but I'm getting a I mean we've driven two cars now and I'm starting to get a yeah feel for what I would really want at him wanting an M exactly and there's a I think there's a lot of this maybe more in this than in the M1 to an extent too I don't think so I think so now this and this goes back to that weird place the M1 occupies because by the time they got the M3 they're just they kind of had a mission and it was Motorsport was definitely the mission and that and I don't know whether that's going to fall apart of our ideal Empire because this a lot of what makes this car so great is it's dripping with Motorsport cred isn't it I mean it it won the world Touring Car Championship won numerous European touring car championships have won the British Touring Car Championship it won the uh tour of course rally in 1987. oh it's hard not to be sort of carried away so uh mate what have we learned well I don't know about you but I quite like this one I've got this one too though it's it's seen as the definitive M car for many people and it's not hard to see why yeah maybe we've learned actually that it maybe the perfect M does have more than four cylinders yes I think so this is uh it's an effective engine when you wind it up but it's not a very charismatic one is it yeah you don't you wind it up because you want to get to where you're going quicker not because you want to hear it again yeah yeah but I love the compactness particularly the visibility again and the compactness they cut it can't be much more than 4.2 4.3 meters long something like that yeah and it's got to be one I don't know no more than 1800 mil one that's a big top end of the guesstimation yeah I reckon yeah yeah so it feels just the right size it gives you options on the road doesn't it the driver position is not perfect maybe we need to I think when you try something more modern because I think that's that's a that's part of his age isn't it yeah it's not his fault yeah all right let's travel more love it this is of course an M3 CSL it is E40 six well done yes actually I didn't know that uh which means uh it's it's this is a 2000 three four cars 2003 I think not many in the UK in fact just 422 in the UK it says uh in that on that list that's handy that's that's when you don't need to do research yeah exactly it's my preferred kind of research is somebody presenting things to me is really helpful so this this is quite a special car I remember this is yeah this has a kind of interesting place of the M hierarchy because I seem to remember when this car came out just a little bit before my time it was sort of derided and loud in any pleasure wasn't it was it because it had a couple twos was that was it the first iteration of the cup maybe it wasn't even cut two tires right and then he had to sign a disclaimer saying I put these tires on the car and I understand if I throw it off the road it's totally my fault I look out yeah for using stupid tires on the road and then it had the cardboard rear boot fraud and it that kind of fired us yeah to save weight yeah and so lots of people I guess a bit like the current M2 CS wondered why am I paying quite a lot more for a car that if it rains is lethal and doesn't have as much start we were all listening somebody does have a CD player it does have a CD player I just went to on that note mate I just went as you were gonna approach the corner I went to put my arm on an armrest and of course there isn't one no because it's just got a carbon fiber door card but it's over the years it's sort of Taken on a bit of a cool station but one of the reasons is staying up front oh well sorry to interrupt you there no no breaking news breaking news gone this engine is absolutely Sublime I mean into that age guys he just pulls from everywhere sounds sensational and it's got this gearbox and it's got this so there are purists there are BMW enthusiasts you swear by swear by but they they will say no this gearbox is what it had yeah you should learn to love it for what it has you should learn to love that gearbox yeah I mean I'm not sure on this side actually it doesn't it feels pretty good right I'm I'm actually so that's why I was trying there I'm actually flipping the Throttle Down shifts yeah and then you can you can smooth it out and if you just give it a little lift on up shift as well because if you don't lift on up shift yeah it's not very nice yeah exactly but the way you've been driving it I it feels as nice as if you've been driving a manual well you know to me weirdly I think there's something quite nice about that it's an extra layer of interaction between the car or the driver I'm not saying it would be in my perfect game car okay chassis is pretty snorky as well yeah I was lucky enough to drive one of these on a track and the balance is just the balance is perfect yeah E30 steering with the balance of this car nice with this Engine with this engine this engine I'm I'm putting in an early shout first this being high up on the list of things we should have in our perfect end call because it is it's a stunning stunning engine what have we learned uh well in terms of size yeah I think I felt this was as big as I'd like on the road yeah so if you can scale it back a little bit perfect towards an E30 size I think so which we've looked up since we last spoke which says and it's 4.3 just uh yeah just 4.3 and it's just under 1.7 wide that's really narrow yeah I think it's perfect crystallized my belief that we'd probably want a good induction at six at least a six induction noise definitely and the the way it goes down the road this level of performance I think is it too much it's getting close to too much but I think it's just it's just the right side of acceptable it's it's fast enough that you know you're going quickly but the balance of this thing is superb and I think that may be remind me about 3 30 3 2 1 something like that three three it's around maybe so if it were 300 ish yeah and it was 1300 kilos ish yeah I work with the size that we'll be talking about yeah peachy I've not driven one of these you've got all in with the harness I've gone all in with the harness I thought I've not driven one of these before Let's Go the whole GTS experience all nine yards and put it on uh you've obviously sensibly just put well seatbelt with road cars mate I just can't be honest and maybe that could be something I'm sensing that could be something about this car yeah possibly given that we're heading out on the road in it I mean there's no two-way to cut it this is quite an extreme take on the M3 concept and as I said I kind of missed out on it when it was new due to various circumstances so I'm very keen to see what it was because again it's quite a divisive car isn't it it has some people down on all down on the knees sort of bowing before it yeah and some utterly bemused as to why it exists I like it I've got to say it I'm quite a big fan yeah it feels light and although it's V8 powered it doesn't feel heavy and not big and you know and it doesn't feel I mean it does feel sort of sort of too quick for the road it's got 444 break I think yeah he strolls on a bit and it sounds nice it does sound good I yeah I know the CSL has that Zing but this has got a deeper yeah no of induction which I'm not immersed to this this is a tricky one um yeah I really like it but I don't know what elements I would necessarily take from it over some of the stuff we've already driven it's a great thing is it an um is it gonna does it distill the bits of him that we feel should make a good emperor right so M3 GTS yeah what do we think about this well I like it yeah I like it okay fine I think yeah I think you're right the engine's probably in the front yeah because it's got a great balance again really great balance again um is it too impractical for an M car I mean I know we've got an M1 on it so that has a little bit how practical that is but this if you're gonna if you're gonna get a car of this shape with an engine in the front yeah should you have for me I would I think I'd like it to have four seats yeah yeah this drives surprisingly well if that makes sense for the road it looks like it's going to be a head banger and it's not it's actually quite well resolved but for me roll cage and everything it feels like it's drifting too far into GT Porsche territory and easy to oh it's got loads of power yeah 450 break so four four four thirty three fifty there's CSL and that's to the M3 is 250.50 yeah and this is just over 1500 kilos that's just under 1400 kilos and that's 1200 kilos so if I said to you 300 break horsepower and 1300 kilos would that sound right I'd say that sounds a bit better so why don't we go and drive something with much more of both excellent Let's test that theory get a BMW M5 yes CS yes so this I guess this is I don't know is this the Pinnacle of the pure internal combustion engine M car well this is where we are we're at and this is the newest and the great the latest and greatest most powerful I believe purely internally combusters that right with me this has been very popular hasn't it this has got five auto car road test stuff it has yes but my thing is my my perfect M car is usually a little bit smaller than this but this is very agile yeah for a car of its size and weight it's a big car I mean a five the current Five series is a large car it is and this is the thing that hangs over it so I have also read those reviews yeah and I was expecting big things I've I've not been a fan of the increasing size of an M5 no and I just so I I think the sports Saloon such as it is comes of comes of age it comes into its own a class smaller than yes a five and in fact a current through M3 or M4 is getting towards the top end of the size I would I would like it it deserves its five-star road test because it is exceptional what it's able to do yeah given free reign shouldn't handle and feel as nimble and as easy to play so something that's big and heavy should but I'm not sure there's anything I would take necessarily from this into my perfect distilled M and that's that is true Maybe if you if you're being generous yeah I I feel that my perfect hair needs to have some sort of usability to it it leads to oh and there is no more usable yeah so it's quite big it is very big I like it I mean I like it a lot there's great things about it but let's just let's so we now try two V8s we've tried two six others we tried four how many cylinders do you think we want me personally I think six I'm actually aspirated as well because this is Turbo Charge isn't it yeah and it's phenomenally fast but it's too fast and as with the e92 we're getting into the Realms of too fast to the road really yeah all right done okay and more contentiously perhaps what gearbox are having do you know what it's it feels sacrilegious on a driver's car but but I don't feel the manual any of the manual gearboxes we tried are ones that you just want to click around the gate for the hell of it but I think you're probably right if we're getting to the weight and performance we're thinking of yeah I think a a good DCT with paddle shifters would be quite nice I don't I don't know I think a matter what not necessarily a BMW manual well that's the thing yeah so if we've got to have a BMW manual a BMW gearbox yeah maybe we've got a Twitter but I'd like to have a manual should we just try one more car and then decide after that I think so because we might go oh it's all got the electric matters and hell to hell for the rest let's find out iconic sounds yeah yeah is that an iconic sound to you that is not an iconic set well it might be an iconic sound I just don't know what it's an iconic sound of how him is the is the i4m well M sport Technologies I think it has M sport influence so it's like an m to three five I rather than an M2 yeah so I think they kind of go over kick the tires the air and go yeah okay we're happy with that yeah that's what iconic sounds exactly what's my kind of you can put our wing mirrors on it and some iconic sounds so it's a sort of a half M rather than a foot yeah let's say but interesting because it's the first m oh now that yeah I enjoyed that more with the without the sound yeah so it steers quite nicely steering's got decent heft expansive turns in nicely there's clearly lots of grip there yeah there seems to be control I mean you can feel the weight the mass yeah it's very quick it's very quick like they all are I mean it it's very effective but nothing is screaming in car there's somebody initial thinking there's nothing inherent in an engine in terms of question engine for which the engagement of handling to patents yeah you know you could if you with two well set up Motors at the rear replicating the best of what a limited slip differential and rear wheel drive does that would be as good as if not better then because the response is so much quicker than an engine would give you but somehow today this feels notably less engaging than yeah the other stuff we've driven I don't know what to make that I don't know what I'm taking from this and putting in the ultimate m uh right what have we learned let's be generous here this isn't a full fat M carry no it's not no it's not M bits M technology whatever you like to call it on a bigger saloon car yeah and yeah fine I'm I there are bits I like very much yeah it's very fast it's very really fast composed just stirs quite nicely yeah but in terms of my I'm going to leave the sketches alone because I think I'm happy for where we got to I think so yes so let's go for a manual let's go for a manual so that's it that's the specification decided we're going to take all of this and we're going to get to our Magic picture editor Ben and he's gonna do a rendering a bendering if you will and we will come up with the perfect M car so here it is and when you just look at it this is what we think the perfect M car could be like that's a two-door coupe a slight mashup of some other M design cues that you might recognize here and there it's a car that is a bit over four meters long it's under 1.8 meters wide and it has a cabin that seats four or thereabouts now to our minds it has a naturally aspirated straight six-cylinder engine under the Bonnet probably three liters making 300 ish horsepower and it weighs all in about 1300 kilograms it would have a manual gearbox be rear-wheel drive and have a limited slip differential then of course it gets those Splendid campagnola wheels and ha the best horn in Christendom and that's that so thank you for joining us for this special m50th anniversary video there are loads more vids on this channel we are at autocar.co.uk we've got podcasts social channels the magazine is on digital subscription which makes an excellent gift by the way Antarctica is in print as it has been every week since 1895. so thank you for watching we would love an up thumb and a subscription to this YouTube channel that would be amazing and until then see you next time foreign\n"