The Power Difference Between Two Engines: A Closer Look

When it comes to comparing the power output of two engines, it's often tempting to focus on their technical specifications and similarities. However, as we'll explore in this article, there are many factors that can contribute to significant differences in power output between seemingly similar engines. Let's take a closer look at the Honda Civic Type-R and its IndyCar counterpart, and examine why they produce such different levels of horsepower.

Boost Pressure: A Key Differentiator

One of the most obvious differences between the two engines is their boost pressure. The Honda Civic Type-R produces 23.9 psi of boost, while its IndyCar counterpart has a more modest 23.2 psi. However, this difference in boost pressure can have a significant impact on power output. To put it into perspective, let's consider how much horsepower each engine would produce if they were to run at the same displacement and RPM. The Civic Type-R produces an impressive 306 horsepower at 6,500 RPM, while its IndyCar counterpart produces 312 horsepower per liter (corrected for displacement) at a much higher RPM of 12,000.

The Role of Displacement in Power Output

To make a fair comparison between the two engines, it's essential to consider their displacements. The Civic Type-R has a 2.0-liter engine, while its IndyCar counterpart has a 2.2-liter engine. If we calculate horsepower per liter for each engine, we get approximately 153 horsepower per liter for the Civic Type-R and 169 horsepower per liter for its IndyCar counterpart (corrected for displacement). This indicates that even with similar displacements, there's still a significant gap in power output between the two engines.

The Impact of Fuel on Power Output

Another key factor that contributes to the power difference between the two engines is the type of fuel they use. The Honda Civic Type-R runs 91 octane gasoline, while its IndyCar counterpart uses 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. This significant difference in fuel composition can have a substantial impact on power output. Ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline, which allows for more advanced ignition timing and a higher compression ratio. This can result in additional horsepower gains, especially at high RPMs.

The Effects of Engine Design on Power Output

While the Civic Type-R and its IndyCar counterpart share some similarities in terms of displacement and boost pressure, there are also significant differences in their engine designs. The Civic Type-R has a compression ratio of around 9:8, while its IndyCar counterpart uses a higher compression ratio due to the advanced ignition timing made possible by the high-octane fuel. This allows for more efficient combustion and increased power output.

Real-World Applications and Experiences

While these differences in engine design and specifications can be fascinating from a technical perspective, they also have real-world implications. The Honda Civic Type-R is designed for everyday driving and offers impressive performance without sacrificing practicality or reliability. In contrast, its IndyCar counterpart is optimized for high-speed racing and must meet specific safety and durability standards.

A Unique Experience: Riding the Honda Two-Seater

One of the most memorable experiences I had while at the Belle Isle Grand Prix was riding the Honda two-seater with Conor Daly. The car was incredibly responsive and offered an exhilarating driving experience that's hard to match. As I watched Conor drive, I could see the forces acting on the vehicle, which was truly impressive.

In conclusion, the power difference between the Honda Civic Type-R and its IndyCar counterpart is a fascinating topic that highlights the complexities of engine design and the importance of considering multiple factors when evaluating power output. By examining the differences in boost pressure, displacement, fuel composition, and engine design, we can gain a deeper understanding of why these engines produce such different levels of horsepower. Whether you're a car enthusiast or simply interested in learning more about engines, this topic is sure to be engaging and informative.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhello everyone and welcome in this video I have teamed up with Honda and we're gonna be learning about how they were able to crank out over 700 horsepower out of a little 2.2 liter engine now Honda actually had me at the Belle Isle Grand Prix in Detroit where I not only had the opportunity to chat with a honda performance development engineer to learn all about this engine but i also got to take a ride in the honda IndyCar two-seater so in this video we're actually going to be comparing this 2.2 liter engine used in IndyCar versus the Honda Civic type-r engine and when you look at these engines they're both similar size they're both turbocharged and yet the power differential between them is extraordinary and so in this video we're gonna break down why does that power difference exist what are the different strategies that these engines are using and actually some of the similarities that exist between these two engines so first off the IndyCar engine is a 2.2 litre twin-turbocharged v6 engine and it is producing over 700 horsepower so 700 horsepower being a conservative estimate Honda does not actually release the exact horsepower number for competitive reasons and then in the type-r is a 2 liter inline 4-cylinder which is also turbocharged and creating 306 horsepower now one of the major differences between these engines is how high they rev so the in the engine the 2.2 litre revving to 12,000 rpm while the Type R engine is revving to 7,000 rpm and so within IndyCar the rules allow for a maximum bore size of 95 millimeters now we don't know what Honda is using for their engine but assuming they're using that maximum bore then we can do some math and find out that the stroke of that engine is 51.7 millimeters and so why would you want this short stroke well that brings down your piston speeds and allows you to reach these really high rpm and so if we do the math for the average piston speed with this 2.2 liter engine we get twenty point seven meters per second assuming that stroke of 51.7 which assumes the 95 millimeter for or about forty six point three miles per hour if we do that same math with the type r which has a much more square engine 86 millimeter bore by eighty five point nine millimeter stroke we get an average piston speed of 20 point Oh m/s so very close to the 20 point 7 meters per second of this IndyCar so there are limitations as far as how fast combustion can occur and how fast pistons can move and so you see that you know while these have very different levels of hour p.m. between them the piston speeds are actually quite similar now why might Honda choose to use that maximum 95 millimeter for well of course as I explained to allow for that 12,000 rpm to allow for those higher engine speeds but also to allow for larger valve so if they use larger valves then they can have better air flow within that engine which is of course very important when you're revving up to 12,000 so what about Boost well an interesting thing about IndyCar is that power is limited purely through limiting boost and so depending on the style of the track there is a different boost limit put on the engine and that is how ultimately those engines are kept in power so there's no limit on how much fuel that can inject they can use as much fuel as they like but the amount of air that goes into the engine is restricted by a boost limit and so that's ultimately what's limiting power now there's also a push to pass functionality on these Indy cars so for they have about 150 to 200 seconds depending on the track of this push to pass boost that they can use at any time during that race and that gives them maximum boost pressure of 1650 millibar or 23.9 psi and about 700 horsepower so the engine ranging from about 550 to about 700 horsepower again conservative estimates there it's probably significantly higher than that but somewhere in that region and so using this push to pass we're at 23 point 9 psi versus the honda civic type-r which is at 23 point 2 psi for its peak horsepower 306 horsepower at 6500 RPM so this of course leads us to the question if both of these engines have a similar displacement and have similar boost why is the power differential so great between them so to get a more apples-to-apples comparison between the two engines we're going to look at specific horsepower so the 2.2 litre is making about 7 horsepower 700 divided by 2 point 2 gives us 318 horsepower per liter in the Civic type-r we've got 306 divided by 2.0 that gives us 153 horsepower per liter so what we're doing here is correcting for displacement so we're trying to share you know a common which is just one liter displacement and see how much power do these things make so now that we've corrected for displacement we're going to move on to booths so it is running slightly higher 23.9 versus 23.2 so if we do the small correction for the little addition of boost that it has we get about 312 horsepower per liter and then of course this is revving significantly higher and horsepower is a function of RPM so horsepower is equal to torque times RPM divided by 5 - 5 - so the fact that this has so many more power strokes occurring within a minute means it's able to make significantly more power so if we take away that advantage in rpm with the Civic type-r making peak power at 6,500 and we're going to assume this is making peak power at 12,000 we don't know the actual number where it's making peak power however we do know that using push to pass they actually increase the rev limit to twelve thousand two hundred and so we know that it's probably still making good power at 12,000 rpm so we're just going to assume that for this video that that's where our peak is at so we take 312 we divide by that correction factor there and we get about 169 horsepower per liter which is much closer to the Civic type-r s 153 once we start to account for the different things about this engine but we still have a gap here between the two horsepower levels so why is the IndyCar making more power and this comes down to the fuel and so in IndyCar they are running 85 or 85 percent ethanol 15 percent gasoline versus the honda civic type-r which is running 91 octane gasoline so by using this 85 which has a much higher octane level well over 100 could be around 108 for the octane level this allows for you know advanced ignition timing it allows for you to use a higher compression ratio we don't know what the compression ratio used is within this engine these Civic type-r is about nine point eight to one but it allows for a bit more flexibility in things like boost in that compression ratio and your ignition timing and so that can help squeeze out a few extra horse powers so that's ultimately giving you that additional difference that you have right there so hopefully this has been an interesting thought experiment kind of showing you know there's many different strategies towards creating power and different ways of going about it and so you know these two engines looking at them on the surface you know about two liters similar boost why do they make so much different power and then kind of breaking that all down the other thing is you know this engine used in IndyCar only meets the last about twenty five hundred miles versus the Civic type-r of course is coming with a long warranty so there's differences that go into making engines that have to last forever versus having to last you know just twenty five hundred miles so difference is there and also a cool thing that I got to experience while at the Belle Isle Grand Prix was the Honda two-seater and I actually got to ride in it with Conor Daly I was told by some of you guys that I was actually on TV which is very cool and it was just an awesome experience crazy to be going at those speeds with that much grip so close to the ground so it was really neat to experience a huge thank you to Honda for having me out and for sponsoring the video and thank you all so much for watching if you have any questions or comments of course feel free to leave those below now here is the Honda two-seater and it's being driven by Kannan Daly who finished anthing last Sunday's Indianapolis 500 he is giving YouTube's engineering explain Jason Penske a fabulous ride how is it how is it enjoy the drive and you can see the forces there removing it is quite the ride and thanks to Cana daily and again congratulations in that US Airforce car last weekend Walker racing in Detroit nexthello everyone and welcome in this video I have teamed up with Honda and we're gonna be learning about how they were able to crank out over 700 horsepower out of a little 2.2 liter engine now Honda actually had me at the Belle Isle Grand Prix in Detroit where I not only had the opportunity to chat with a honda performance development engineer to learn all about this engine but i also got to take a ride in the honda IndyCar two-seater so in this video we're actually going to be comparing this 2.2 liter engine used in IndyCar versus the Honda Civic type-r engine and when you look at these engines they're both similar size they're both turbocharged and yet the power differential between them is extraordinary and so in this video we're gonna break down why does that power difference exist what are the different strategies that these engines are using and actually some of the similarities that exist between these two engines so first off the IndyCar engine is a 2.2 litre twin-turbocharged v6 engine and it is producing over 700 horsepower so 700 horsepower being a conservative estimate Honda does not actually release the exact horsepower number for competitive reasons and then in the type-r is a 2 liter inline 4-cylinder which is also turbocharged and creating 306 horsepower now one of the major differences between these engines is how high they rev so the in the engine the 2.2 litre revving to 12,000 rpm while the Type R engine is revving to 7,000 rpm and so within IndyCar the rules allow for a maximum bore size of 95 millimeters now we don't know what Honda is using for their engine but assuming they're using that maximum bore then we can do some math and find out that the stroke of that engine is 51.7 millimeters and so why would you want this short stroke well that brings down your piston speeds and allows you to reach these really high rpm and so if we do the math for the average piston speed with this 2.2 liter engine we get twenty point seven meters per second assuming that stroke of 51.7 which assumes the 95 millimeter for or about forty six point three miles per hour if we do that same math with the type r which has a much more square engine 86 millimeter bore by eighty five point nine millimeter stroke we get an average piston speed of 20 point Oh m/s so very close to the 20 point 7 meters per second of this IndyCar so there are limitations as far as how fast combustion can occur and how fast pistons can move and so you see that you know while these have very different levels of hour p.m. between them the piston speeds are actually quite similar now why might Honda choose to use that maximum 95 millimeter for well of course as I explained to allow for that 12,000 rpm to allow for those higher engine speeds but also to allow for larger valve so if they use larger valves then they can have better air flow within that engine which is of course very important when you're revving up to 12,000 so what about Boost well an interesting thing about IndyCar is that power is limited purely through limiting boost and so depending on the style of the track there is a different boost limit put on the engine and that is how ultimately those engines are kept in power so there's no limit on how much fuel that can inject they can use as much fuel as they like but the amount of air that goes into the engine is restricted by a boost limit and so that's ultimately what's limiting power now there's also a push to pass functionality on these Indy cars so for they have about 150 to 200 seconds depending on the track of this push to pass boost that they can use at any time during that race and that gives them maximum boost pressure of 1650 millibar or 23.9 psi and about 700 horsepower so the engine ranging from about 550 to about 700 horsepower again conservative estimates there it's probably significantly higher than that but somewhere in that region and so using this push to pass we're at 23 point 9 psi versus the honda civic type-r which is at 23 point 2 psi for its peak horsepower 306 horsepower at 6500 RPM so this of course leads us to the question if both of these engines have a similar displacement and have similar boost why is the power differential so great between them so to get a more apples-to-apples comparison between the two engines we're going to look at specific horsepower so the 2.2 litre is making about 7 horsepower 700 divided by 2 point 2 gives us 318 horsepower per liter in the Civic type-r we've got 306 divided by 2.0 that gives us 153 horsepower per liter so what we're doing here is correcting for displacement so we're trying to share you know a common which is just one liter displacement and see how much power do these things make so now that we've corrected for displacement we're going to move on to booths so it is running slightly higher 23.9 versus 23.2 so if we do the small correction for the little addition of boost that it has we get about 312 horsepower per liter and then of course this is revving significantly higher and horsepower is a function of RPM so horsepower is equal to torque times RPM divided by 5 - 5 - so the fact that this has so many more power strokes occurring within a minute means it's able to make significantly more power so if we take away that advantage in rpm with the Civic type-r making peak power at 6,500 and we're going to assume this is making peak power at 12,000 we don't know the actual number where it's making peak power however we do know that using push to pass they actually increase the rev limit to twelve thousand two hundred and so we know that it's probably still making good power at 12,000 rpm so we're just going to assume that for this video that that's where our peak is at so we take 312 we divide by that correction factor there and we get about 169 horsepower per liter which is much closer to the Civic type-r s 153 once we start to account for the different things about this engine but we still have a gap here between the two horsepower levels so why is the IndyCar making more power and this comes down to the fuel and so in IndyCar they are running 85 or 85 percent ethanol 15 percent gasoline versus the honda civic type-r which is running 91 octane gasoline so by using this 85 which has a much higher octane level well over 100 could be around 108 for the octane level this allows for you know advanced ignition timing it allows for you to use a higher compression ratio we don't know what the compression ratio used is within this engine these Civic type-r is about nine point eight to one but it allows for a bit more flexibility in things like boost in that compression ratio and your ignition timing and so that can help squeeze out a few extra horse powers so that's ultimately giving you that additional difference that you have right there so hopefully this has been an interesting thought experiment kind of showing you know there's many different strategies towards creating power and different ways of going about it and so you know these two engines looking at them on the surface you know about two liters similar boost why do they make so much different power and then kind of breaking that all down the other thing is you know this engine used in IndyCar only meets the last about twenty five hundred miles versus the Civic type-r of course is coming with a long warranty so there's differences that go into making engines that have to last forever versus having to last you know just twenty five hundred miles so difference is there and also a cool thing that I got to experience while at the Belle Isle Grand Prix was the Honda two-seater and I actually got to ride in it with Conor Daly I was told by some of you guys that I was actually on TV which is very cool and it was just an awesome experience crazy to be going at those speeds with that much grip so close to the ground so it was really neat to experience a huge thank you to Honda for having me out and for sponsoring the video and thank you all so much for watching if you have any questions or comments of course feel free to leave those below now here is the Honda two-seater and it's being driven by Kannan Daly who finished anthing last Sunday's Indianapolis 500 he is giving YouTube's engineering explain Jason Penske a fabulous ride how is it how is it enjoy the drive and you can see the forces there removing it is quite the ride and thanks to Cana daily and again congratulations in that US Airforce car last weekend Walker racing in Detroit next\n"