The Art of Podcasting: A Conversation with Ren and Jeff

As we celebrate 10 years of podcasting on iTunes, Ren and Jeff sat down to reminisce about their journey through the world of audio storytelling. Ren, who has been a part of several podcasts, including Imore, shared his gratitude for being introduced to the medium. "I was hooked on podcasts after working with Rich and Jeff, who used to broadcast Radio Lab and WTF in their warehouse while I was folding t-shirts," he said. "The constant flow of shows kept me engaged, and I soon found myself listening to everything from Art Bell's Coast to Coast AM to Rodrick on the Line."

Jeff chimed in, recalling his own favorite podcast memories. "One that stands out is Look Nice Today, which aired earlier this year," he said. "It was a fascinating series about movie stars during World War II, and I was blown away by the depth of knowledge the hosts shared." Ren nodded in agreement, saying, "I had tried to get my friends to listen to it before, but now that you've mentioned it, I'll definitely have to catch up on it myself."

The conversation turned to the trio cast, including Leo Le, Andy Anderson, and Merlin Man Scott Bourne. "It was one of the first podcasts I stumbled upon," Ren said. "I remember listening to their show and being amazed by the chemistry between them." Jeff added, "And speaking of chemistry, I owe a lot to Mike overbo and derer bone, who started Imore as a different podcast, which eventually became the show that got me started doing podcasts."

As they delved deeper into their conversation, Ren mentioned his experience with Mac Break Weekly, a podcast he used to host. "It was a surreal experience, starting out on an episode three and being thrust into this community," he said. Jeff nodded in understanding, saying, "You're right; it's crazy how podcasts can change your life." He also shared his own connection to podcasting, crediting Rich with introducing him to the medium.

Their conversation was filled with laughter and stories of their favorite podcasts, including Guy English's Script Notes Podcast. Ren raved about John August and Craig Mason's show, saying, "The lessons they share are invaluable for any writer, and their style is just fantastic." Jeff added, "I've been a fan of Craig's work since he wrote Big Fish and The Hangover movies."

As the conversation came to a close, both Ren and Jeff expressed their gratitude for the world of podcasting. "It's amazing how much content is out there, and yet, it's still so underrated," Ren said. Jeff nodded in agreement, saying, "We're lucky to be part of this community and to have had the experiences we've had." The two friends agreed that podcasts will always hold a special place in their hearts, and they couldn't wait to see what the future held for them.

In conclusion, the conversation between Ren and Jeff was a testament to the power of podcasting. From discovering new shows to sharing favorite memories, these two friends demonstrated the depth of passion and community that exists within the world of audio storytelling. As we celebrate 10 years of podcasting on iTunes, it's clear that this medium will continue to evolve and captivate audiences for years to come.

A Special Shout-Out

As they sat down to chat, Ren couldn't help but mention some special guests who had made a significant impact on his life. He specifically called out Charles Manson, citing an infamous incident at WC as one of the most memorable moments in their conversation. Jeff laughed and joked about the "creepy" show Coast to Coast AM, hosted by Art Bell.

The conversation was filled with laughter, stories, and inside jokes, making it clear that Ren and Jeff had a deep understanding of each other's passions and interests. Their discussion was a celebration of the world of podcasting, and we're grateful to have been a part of it.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhey everyone it is July 17 2015 I'm Renee Richie and right now we're going to talk about all the new iPods this is the imore show joining me as always we have Serenity Caldwell how you doing Ren I'm doing all right um hanging out I've got a I've got a lovely new poster hanging out with me sty yeah St stompy stompy and trip to the moon don't quite get along right now I think I have to figure out a new place for one of them but so far they're uh they're in uh they're in battle right now awesome and also joining us we have the illustrious Rich Stevens how are you rich I'm all right I've I've lived longer and prospered more but I'm all right you've pced and and long lived yeah that was my star that was my Star Wars joke so you were you were at ComiCon how was it it was brutal but it was predict it was predictably brutal it was pretty good uh I only saw one famous person by accident but uh I had never been I've never been closer to Harrison Ford in my life it was only it was only about a mile it's a very short H radius to Harrison Ford yeah apparently Peak har you know Bonnie Burton used to work for yeah used to work for lucasfilm she was like this is the first time he's ever come to any of these things he's really excited apparently that makes me also excited because anytime Harrison Ford is actually committed to a project yeah I mean it's high as he is if he's excited it's good well he got his chewy back he did well he also probably got a lot of money and kalista's employed now I mean everybody's happy that's true oh I actually like the looks of Supergirl it looks like a fun show I've watched the pilot like four or five times now oh yeah yeah I actually liked it more than I thought I would cool it's got to be better than the Superman movies well rich I could talk to you about comic conization all day I could too maybe a different show yeah uh so Ren we got new iPods like nowhere uh it was It was kind of hinted in the uh in the source code and in the images of the new iTunes 122 update but uh yeah we've we've got new uh iPod shuffles iPod Nanos and iPod Touches and unfortunately two out of those three aside from a color change aren't that interesting so it literally is just a color change for the shuffle and the Nano yep and they don't even get access to to Apple music which frustrates the heck out of me because iPods have been able to play fair play since the first iPod Apple used to have DRM this is not a like oh we're so scared that you know you're going to walk away with our music and never syn it again this thing used to have Dr like used to Play DRM files so it's but we you know we also we also had two years of iPhones without copy and paste that's also true so I mean you never know you know I mean it could could be something that happens after the trial period because once everybody drops off their free trials absolutely or it could just be that everybody's too busy on the watch and the phone to build an OS update for the shuffle the Nano and the iPod Dutch I mean that poor Nano is still running what looks like iOS 6 oh except wrong except so wrong yeah it's it's the bastardized version of iOS 6 with like the little super bubbles and the and the Nike Plus like you couldn't have put in an m co-processor or something in there you're just going to stick with the Nike integration you have integration with the health app and you're not I don't know I just it's it felt so halfhearted to me and it made me sad because I I love I love iPods I love my little Shuffle you have a little so hold that up again Ren yeah baby baby and here here's a new version can we tell wow y you have you have you have space blue and I have um I don't know space science yeah I don't even know pan from here from here I couldn't even tell with a panone book yeah yours yours is a little bit darker yours is more costi or actually yours is more Boston Massacre colors mine is more cosmina colors to use rol Derby it's so much better than the Pantone scale are those is that pink new this week I is there a new I think the gold is new I don't think the pink is new the pink again like the blue it might be a new shade I have to look at them I have to look at them we lost greens even though though Apple watch bands are green and other stuff is green we've we lost all the greens yeah you'd think that they would have color matched with the Apple watch bands but that blue is different than the Apple watch blue band it's so weird so yeah so to richest so yeah I'm saying so yeah many many times in a row uh so the uh we did hear that the teams uh and John grber heard very similar things there they basically no assets were committed to this project Beyond new Colors by the design by the industrial design team so there were no software engine is assigned to update the iPod Nano's bastardized pixo IOS operating system uh and there was no there's basically nothing else done with them besides the color change I plugged mine in to see if there was an OS update and I think there was like a point. point release uh on my last year's iPod Nano um this one right here and uh that was it so they literally are as far as I can see because this got lightning in 2012 that was the big change that we got last time trying to get it to turn on we are we are stuck with years more of this look at those beautiful bubbles oh my gosh it's so painful this is the I mean look at the look at the music icon I think that's the that's the true kicker that orange that orange music icon when was the last time we had orange for our music oh week or two ago yeah no it's all oh it's turn on turn on six isn't it we had red wasn't it red before oh yeah it was red that's true yeah yeah so it's interesting it's interesting because of the duality in that they didn't want to commit any there's absolutely no Hardware team work done on this there was no software team work done on this there was a bit of industrial design done because we did get the new colors but they still wanted to release it they didn't want to just continue on they wanted I guess they wanted new colors for the iPod touch and they wanted all the iPods to match is that maybe the only reason it got any attention it's yeah I suppose but it just doesn't it doesn't make sense like releasing new iPods in conjunction with apple music I think makes a lot of sense because hey here is an actual service that you can use to sell iPods imagine that you know especially with running and things like that the shuffle like there are ways to make the shuffle to make the Nano interesting to people who don't necessarily want to buy the Apple watch yet right the Nano already has Bluetooth and if you added like an M7 co-processor with that and you used like Bluetooth syncing rather than plug-and play via iTunes the way that the watch does it like there are a lot of ways to make the iPod cool and relevant and potentially like yeah I would pick one up I would pick up a shuffle if it had a if it could send data over Bluetooth to my iPhone and like activity data that'd be great because sometimes you know sometimes you're not wearing the watch sometimes you just want to run with the shuffle sometimes you're on a roller derby track it doesn't really make sense like sometimes it's 100% humidity and you can't wear the watch yeah exactly the watch is not going to like you very much um so I just it it bums me out that there's a lot of potential that they could have done to make the iPod interesting that again probably wouldn't have cost the money it would probably have made the money uh but I think they're so resource constrained right now that it just doesn't make sense yeah I think because we uh again we heard John grber heard that they are all on uh working on the watch team and that's been true for a while now they basically they folded that whole team though all those people who were doing that work and they moved them right into the watch Division and they're really busy they're trying to get watch OS 2 shipped um by this fall so my guess is Ren and maybe I'm nuts my guess is that Apple music is slightly different than traditional Fairplay DRM which these Nanos and and Shuffle still do support uh if you have Legacy content uh no one should have Legacy content anymore but if you do I believe they still support it this is different uh and creating a Bluetooth sync stack enabling the DRM on this all of that would have taken an engineer maybe two engineers and they just didn't get them they didn't have the time yeah and I I guess there's there is a possibility that they'll fix the uh the shuffle and the Nano but it doesn't seem like it from their page like the page is very much like bring your music whereas the the iPod Touch is very much like apple music you have access to this isn't this great so I don't know it just bums me out it's entirely possible they just bought some paint last week and they put this out to pay for Taylor Swift's uh paid streaming yeah exactly we need to sell 100,000 iPod shuffles to make up they had it left in the can they had it left in the can cover it fine I mean at least it's a little bit better than Prime day but hey Prime day had like extra delicious cans of spaghetti on sale spaghetti and a can I I that yeah so this is a legacy product and you said it perfectly in your article on this R you're ending who was just one of the best endings ever and I think that's that's true like this is a holdover it's a product for people who will not let go of their shuffles and Nanos who maybe need new hardware or people who want them in a different color but this it doesn't seem like these are long for the world no so like this is that 2012 MacBook Pro that just sticks around forever the non retina yeah yeah yeah I think I think that's a good analogy uh and they'll eventually disappear and and as the watches become more and more capable and maybe that that platform maybe won't stay on a watch maybe that platform be moved over but the a non iOS device that cannot connect to iCloud I think is not something Apple wants in the future yeah so but good news great news I now have an iPod touching gold oh yeah here's the old one so fancy the new one is missing the uh little the loop yeah the loop thing how much do you think AT&T pays Apple per year not to give you a cell cellular option for the iPod Touch oh probably Millions right that's most of Apple's profit right there like I don't know if it's like so there's a lot of things about those cellular options the reason it cost $130 extra on the iPad is because anytime you have to include a cellular modem uh you have to pay Qualcomm anytime you have to include CDMA because people in America just won't get off of it uh you have to pay them an exorbitant amount and I believe it's on retail not even on wholesale so what one of the reasons I believe it's still not on the MacBooks because Apple doesn't want to give up 10 to 15% profits on MacBook sales on retail value for for a modem and if you add 130 bucks to an iPod touch I don't know how competitive it is even if they wanted to do it anymore yeah I just I want that pink one is my phone I love that that 4 inch with the pink it's beautiful it really is although you could I mean who knows we might see a 6C yeah we want to talk about that so that's grber and I talked about that a while ago when I was on the talk show and Jason sell brought it back up this week on uh six colors the idea that Apple managed to get an A8 processor into something as Tiny and thin as a 4 in uh barely three-dimensional that's soti beautiful iPod Touch yeah so rich you you want a 4inch iPhone uh iPhone 6 class device I honestly I still keep my iPhone 5 around because sometimes it's just more comfortable to use I don't I'm not sold on the big stuff you know like I care I like a phone and a laptop I'm those are my that's where I hang out so I want the smallest phone I can get really yeah you know I uh I go back and forth because I was actually using a 5S um to do the Apple music testing I had my beta on the six and I do kind of miss that form factor it's like it's really comfy in your hand you know it's like yeah like there's something really nice about this and then you add the uh the new sort of curved form factor of the the iPod Touch it's like I mean I wish um Renee do you have your 5S to compare to the yeah I'm just holding it up my five it could use my my six plus like it could Hollow it out like a tonon and use it to stay warm and yeah it's pretty ridiculous it fits in the in the screen size alone can you hold up the 5s next to the touch you got like a kangaroo going there yeah living in its belly oh it's so pretty though here here's all the I'll put them this way around so you can see all the gold things but look at that look at the beautiful back on that thing yeah they're they're great for people who are listening and not watching we're just we're just staring at gold as if we could own it and and sell it like like gnomes or but the gold just the back of that iPod touch with none of those well it's got the window still got the black RF transparent window on the top at least at least that looks intentional that looks like some kind of cool sensor as opposed to these weird stripes on the back of the iPhone 6 like a sylon of course the uh the iPod Touch doesn't get touch ID and it doesn't get NFC sad face no no no NFC but can you pair an iPod Touch to your watch no oh cheapers yeah you're your hope of using an iPod touch as a phone is H still a little bit Out Of Reach yeah I at least paired to an iPad or something yeah no apparent it's it's only the phone right now because of the cellular data I need to go talk to Timmy so I find it super interesting because uh I like Serenity ended up using an iPhone 5 actually use an iPhone an iPhone 5 not a 5S um for Apple music because I had the public beta on one phone I had the uh developer beta on the other phone and I needed something that was on .4 so I went back to the iPhone 5 and I I'm the opposite like it feels a little heavy to me now and it feels a little dense a little brick-like and it's weird to say to something that's thin but it's just the screen is so claustrophobic my brain was fine this my brain thought this was big in 200 when the iPhone 5 came out it was like a revelation oh look how much bigger it is and now going back to it I'm almost stressed because there I'm like not enough screen not enough screen and I I feel like Chewy's holding up the wall on the compactor holding it away from me uh and I go back but I find it interesting that when we had 4-in iPhones for a while there were a lot of really big Android phones and people are like please please make a bigger phone we need a bigger phone and now we have bigger phones we hear the opposite end of the spectrum going please please make a smaller phone we need a smaller phone and it's not intuitive to me what SI like does Apple make a 4 inch a four and a half inch and a 5 and a half inch phone do they need three is there any way two phones could covered if they don't want to make 3D phones could they still I I don't know where The Sweet Spot is to get the biggest address ible audience well they have like nine sizes of laptops right now so I mean you never know yeah I mean it's entirely possible that we'll see the uh the the iPhone small the iPhone medium the iPhone big well I mean the way you were talking about people not wanting to let go of their physical files on the old iPods if they had offered a 4-in new phone last year I bet people would have just resisted it you have to like go all or nothing and then then you can give it back yeah exactly take it away and then like all right all right you can have it you you demonstrated that you can you can you're adult enough to deal with it but most people are like into it now so they can offer it again and then the other 20% will jump back well there's a pricing problem too in that right now you have $199 and 299 for the six and the six plus which would theoretically because they're using size as a differentiator theoretically position uh a 4in phone at $99 and them putting all the new technology and a $99 phone is probably not feasible for them so the whole iPhone 6c Theory is that they will when they introduce the six and sorry the 6 S Plus and the 6s they'll take the six guts so it'll be a year older technology and that would let them have the $100 cheaper because you're not getting the latest for an even lower price makes sense yeah I mean you could also look at something like uh just dropping at $50 instead of dropping at 100 making it $150 with subsidy as opposed to like $199 149 and four gigabytes hey you can do a lot with four gigabytes no you could do nothing with four gigabytes can you even that's five I don't think you g we about to say that I don't think you can install not iOS 8 maybe iOS 9 yeah uh we're gonna take a quick break and I am going to tell you about one of our wonderful sponsors and that is linda.com linda.com is an online learning platform with over 3,000 on demand video courses to help you strengthen your business technology and creative skills for a free 10-day trial is at linda.com imore so what is Linda for Linda is for problem solvers for the Curious for people want to make things happen maybe you want to master Excel learn negotiating tactics build a website boost your Photoshop SK skills go to linda.com and feed your curious mind right now we have a ton of new stuff being released there's new versions of office that have come out even for the Mac there's new versions of photo of all the Adobe stuff ad obcc has been updated and linda.com is on top of all that they almost always have something out immediately when a product is launched or very soon thereafter and it's not just you know me trying to teach you how to use this stuff because I really don't have any idea it's it's experts it's the 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become an industry expert if you're passionate about a hobby or you just want to learn something new you've seen photography you want to say I want to take awesome photos I want you to learn what this aperture priority and manual modes mean you can go there and do it I want to make my own podcast you can go there learn how to use Garage man learn how to use logic learn how to use anything that you'd like so I want you to visit linda.com imore and sign up for your free 10day trial that's lynda.com imore thank you so much Linda so Ren you mentioned lack of touch ID and I I think apple as much as they did bring the iPod Touch into into the present they leapt It Forward from 2012 into the present they gave it an A8 processor they gave it an 8 megapixel camera they did not give it the new screens they did not give it touch ID I think that's still because it's a $200 device and it's and the fact that they gave it colors and made it a low price point to me says it's it's never going to be equal to what an a flagship iPhone is yeah I think it's going to be difficult again we're talking about how much money they can conceivably uh put into a product while still selling it at some kind of a profit the iPods already are declining uh in terms of profit revenue and we've known that for years and there's really a question of okay well how you know how much can I put in here to make this appealing for kids who have devices and you know want to listen to music and parents don't necessarily want to give them a full-fledged iPhone without making it so fancy or so expensive that either it becomes horrible to replace um or too ex yeah too too high priced uh so yeah I don't know I'm I'm of two minds on that partially because I think the current market or the current way that they're marketing the iPod Touch is very much like it's the 2015 Game Boy play all of your favorite iOS toite all of your games on it and listen to music if you're into that sort of thing and 14 to 17 year olds generally aren't paying for a lot of things with Apple pay or touch ID do most iPod Touches go to kids is that is that the deal from what I can like from all of the iPod Touch purchases I know of from my non-tech friends it's usually children or young young like young adults uh teenagers people who can afford not to attach a debit card yeah exactly or developers who just got a new Beta And I want to put it on their phone yeah or that I mean it's entirely possible that the iPod Touch was just made for developers who are testing eight and N to be like we understand but also we're going to give give you a 4-in screen because you don't need it six we we've we've stopped charging you separately for every developer program we'd like $200 for this testing device yes exactly the thing that's and I did I did a whole buyer guide on this earlier in the week but when you put the 4inch iPad sorry the iPod touchdown next to the 7.9 in iPad Mini uh it's really interesting because the latest version of iPad mini iPad Mini 3 doesn't it does have Touch ID but it doesn't have an A8 as far as I understand it Apple couldn't scale production of the A8 to to meet all the devices they had to produce last year now you know it was never a problem putting an A8 in one of these it was having enough a8s to put them in all the devices so you get you don't get as good a camera in the iPad Mini you don't get as good a processor but uh you do get touch ID you do get the bigger screen it is more expensive it's it's not a clear sort of a comparison I tried to weigh through it as much as I could but I know like just anecdotally my God kids moved from iPod Touches to iPad minis because they wanted the bigger screen and ren I'm not sure do you have an idea of the approximate values here for people what in terms of what choosing between an iPod Touch now or an iPad Mini now that touch is finally updated an iPad Touch versus an iPad Mini I honestly think it depends on um size like how how much you're willing to add to your um your general weight package I feel like games on a 4in screen versus games on a mini are obviously that's probably going to be better with the bigger screen but there are some games especially like tilts and point and shoots that don't make so much sense with that that bigger device I've tried playing games on an iPad mini and I almost always go back to the iPhone because yes it's a bigger screen it's nicer but I I I like the handheld feel we've grown up with the handheld like being able to hold it maybe hold it with one hand and like press our virtual a button while we drink I think for photography too like it's got the better camera and it's more portable and it's the shape of a camera when I my last iPod Touch before it vanished into the Wilds I think at Comic-Con a few years ago I didn't it I didn't do it I'm sure it wasn't you uh my last iPod Touch I used almost exclusively as a camera uh where I was just like you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna attempt to use a second device as a camera and I just had an iPod touch with an all clip on it I just used it non-stop do do you like the camera on that Renee uh so it's an 8 megapixel camera now it's not equivalent to the 8 megapixel camera on the iPhone maybe somewhere between the F the 4S and the five it's it seems to me so far I've only had it for a few hours is sort of like the iPad Air 2's camera okay where it's good but not great I mean it's good it's good compared to most camera phones most camera phones are terrible uh but cameras like Zed index and if you notice the this is barely raised and on an iPhone which is a thicker device uh it's quite a bit um raised so you just you're not getting as much camera and like there's no Optical image stabilization the way there is in an iPhone 6 Plus and so I think it's good I think it's it's better uh than the iPad Mini for sure it's about equivalent to the iPad Air but if you want to be portable with it this is way smaller than an iPad Air so is this the new throwaway camera is this the new disposable camera don't throw it away I know well you use it once when the battery runs out you toss it right yeah do9 I S 1999 bucks you just you pick them up like like Pringles they're amazing I was going to make a little suit out of them it's odd to me though because the game performance with the A8 is so good um it just it's an odd device for me now I think there are people who really love the iPod touch and they'll be super happy with this update but I just I don't know where it sits going forward either now that you know the iPads are more numerous and I don't know what's a stocking stuffer now you know if it's $199 it's the only little thing when it works well Grandma can just pick it up for 16 gigs yeah yeah it feels weird to be like 199 it's a stocking stuffer it's no problem like it feels a little 1center to say that but at the same time it is like for Apple devices well yeah I mean compared to like a $66,000 iPhone yeah contract yeah exactly and but now this is the sad thing is like these these became so cheap that I felt like I had started collecting the shuffles because I was like they're super cheap and they come in so many different colors and they're adorable and you can clip them on things and now I'm like now they're essentially useless with anything other than purchased music which makes me sad yeah so there is Apple music on the iPod Touch so I guess if you do also want a very low C like if you want just to put your kids on Apple music I don't want have to get them a bigger device or a more powerful device sorry it is more powerful but a bigger device or something they can do more with they I keep phrasing this incredibly badly if you just want to get your kids on Apple music this is an a good entry level way of doing that well SL it's Apple music in their pocket without buying them a cell phone contract yes so maybe this is the client for the family plan like this this is the way that that second and third person gets on the Apple music plan yeah I think that's very my iPod shuffle my iPod Touch turned off I'm very sad oh it knows you're talking about it it had battery life what happened I don't know all right well sort of any closing thoughts on the iPods Ren any any uh last minute advice any any wishes any hopes I mean I think people know my wishes I I wish Apple had put more thought into the new iPods because I still love the iPods um but yeah I mean for for people who have uh younger children or for people who need a testing device um or just need everything in gold all of the time uh this is an option this is it's it's definitely exciting to see that Apple has not outright abandoned the iPod line but I I honestly think any future Innovations in small music players is probably go into this thing which to the people who are not watching I'm pointing at my watch it's such an attention grabber the watch it just takes all the sucking all the air out of the iPod room yeah but it doesn't have a headphone jack so what's the point Wireless future is Bluetooth oh actually that's a uh that's a great uh plug for our contest this week Renee oh yeah uh Ren you you started up the photography contest again yeah I did um so we're doing or attempting to do as long as our schedules permit a bi-weekly contest on imore um where we'd love to see your iPhone photography or otherwise uh this week we're doing th we're having you guys take uh photos of yourselves or your products jamming out to Apple music um so if you yeah exactly uh devil horns and everything um so if you send an uh if you post a photo on Instagram with I think hash imore does Apple music uh or you post in our imore photo contest thread you will be entered to win a pair of bluetooth headphones um which I think is the Java sport um I have to look at the yeah the all of these Bluetooth headphones have like super long weird names um but they're they're pretty good they're pretty good headphones I've tested them before and for decent decent Bluetooth headphones under $100 and they work with the Apple watch they do work with the Apple watch you can get your you can get your Beats on with your Beats on so there's your there's your complaining struck Rich you you can enter our contest and get bluetoo headphones Bluetooth Bluetooth headphones for some reason just don't work with my head I don't know if it's like what's in the water content of my brain or what I just I lose I lose contact with them so much it's crazy yeah they just slip I do like the the sort of retro yellow headphones you're rocking right now oh yeah these are Bluetooth but they have a they have a headphone jack cable huh yeah wait a minute that sounds like a con job to me buy these expensive bluetooth headphones just plug them in and they work great I got them because they they have a yeti on the side and they have like this cool cloth top and I thought I could get into wireless headphones but I could not so I I hedged my bet got one with a chord that you can use an external cord with before the show you were Neil younging about iPhone music quality too not iPhone music quality just that I think the the interface is garbage I think the newest Apple music interface is better than it used to be on the iPhone but there's just nothing like a click wheel like I love just sliding without looking that's me tactile physical feedback yep yeah I I I want a case that like covers over the front and then gives me iPod buttons you know like for my fingers could you force touch any goodness there stred if you made like a good Force touch interface you could yeah you could have the little vibration if you were moving and I'm I'm kind of sad that um the Beats Music to Apple music transition got rid of Beats music's beautiful uh turn click wheel where you could actually see the progress of a song and scrub through it by doing the click what if you force click down and actually now it works like a a virtual quick click wheel oh I'd be into that there's lots of Po potential for forced touch so uh so Apple hurry up and put it into your iOS devices already please I I showed some people forced touch on the laptop last week and no one believed me until I turned off the laptop that it wasn't moving it's pretty fun that's awesome which uh which MacBook did you end up getting rich I went up with a space gr 12 inch 128 no 256 I believe nice you have you have my Envy you want it I do okay I have like nine laptops right now like Pringles so things like Pringles I pick them up cheap and then I kind of sell them to people but it's it's a long story yeah I mean you just can't leave a laptop without a home it's just sad no I know I'm using you don't even want to know yeah the thing for me is that the music app now has such a level of complexity and the ellipse button the more button is basically the new hamburger button and oh my God it's so many things and I'm just hoping that Force press will let them sort of like in the watch which is bury that complexity you get it out of my almost like you know when the guy on the deck of the of the battleship where the aircraft carrier says clear my skies and all the planes just clear my inace and make it like nice and and Spartan and beautiful again and then when I force touch on something all those options will po will like just pop up yeah I just I keep on going back to you know design four five six years ago I'm trying to imagine you know even forall with his love for extraneous things leather see yeah exactly seeing a popup show you eight different things I feel like you know you'd have somebody like Steve or one of the employ just being like how the F do I use this thing maybe that's why they have the bigger screens now they knew this was coming yeah they're like people want more complexity in their devices we're just giving them what they asked for when I hit three dots on the screen I want the entire screen to just pop up options I want to rightclick God well let me tell you what we have planned for you rich Ste I think forall was always like the like the exomorphic stuff was really a Steve Jobs thing that that Scott forall managed but I think he was a big proponent of usability and there's probably he might have interceded on something like this but it would be comical to have that Steve Jobs scene where he's like what is this app supposed to do U managing music s then why doesn't it do that and flers why doesn't it work then why am I seeing updates from Drake well there is a huge tension here just from a design point of view that if your mandate is make one single thought one unified thought one coherent thought about music which is essentially marching orders for putting it all into one app and you have this list of features in terms of just shoving everything into an app they did a pretty good job they just managed to get everything in there uh in some semblance of order but I would just argue that maybe all these you could have two or three thoughts about music yeah I don't I also going back to remember the old keyboard problems where you can't tell if your shift key is on or not yes really like to make it more clear as to whether or not music is on my device yes as opposed to just floa you know what iTunes does this really well there's the iCloud status thing and you just see the the cloud and not the cloud and even honestly um stupid Beats Music did this as well where you had the little you had the little phone icon on anything that was locally downloaded and this is on some things this is on albums and playlists in music if you download a full album you'll get that little icon but it doesn't actually show up in list View and yes exactly it's frustrating why couldn't you just color code them see I thought it was just me being stupid not understanding the code but go propor hawk yeah yeah um I just watched that episode great oh West Wing oh oh long time wow yes we have some real time follow and he wants to know how does a multi- we get this a lot how does a multi-billion dollar company not have enough people to allocate to that project that project meaning the iPod project hire more people and the answer to this is you can never have enough people and Apple is is more constrained than others because they would really only want people who are willing to work in copertino so there's incredible competition from the Facebook from the Googles especially from the startups that can offer engineers in incredible incentives like public offerings and stock that is right now very small but could theoretically be very big so it's fiercely competitive to get these engineers and when you do get them you have to assign them to your highest priority projects and even those projects do not have enough engineers then you get into the mythical man month where just adding people doesn't necessarily solve problems because the more people you add the more management overhead you add to it and Apple trally has very very small teams so they're just declaring this not a priority and then assigning their assets where they think that and I hate calling humans assets but assigning their Engineers where they think they'll do the most good so if they had their brothers they would have as many Engineers as they possibly could but it's never that easy yeah I mean how many people are actually qualified to do that too like how do you train them for two years so they can update the iPod yeah like we what is there I'm the I'm the guy in charge of the mutant pixo inter I mean like yeah yeah it's a little insane youve got you've got to cut off edq where Phil really hard in the Apple parking lot to get assigned that job uh Ren you spent a lot of the week once again troubleshooting Apple music are we getting somewhere with this now are we solidifying are we stabilizing yes if sh better the update definitely helped some people I know Kirk mcgall is still in horrible Apple Music Land I think the large problem is that a lot of people were expecting it to work like iTunes Match and they were going into it um either with incomplete libraries or um just going into it with very complex metadata and then expecting that Apple music would magically deal with all of that that's not a it's not an incorrect assumption to have have in that you know I would like my music to work and I'd like all of these meticulously crafted things to stay where they are it's very optimistic though yes but exactly it's like you are an early adopter to a to a big project to Apple's first Venture into really cloud-based music they've been doing the iTunes Match thing for years but that's the other thing you've had four years to see how Apple has not exactly succeeded at dealing with complex libraries and the amount of people who are like I'm just going to upgrade and I'm not going to back up my iTunes library that I've crafted for six years oh it's fine and then when something happens they're like but my library so I don't know I I have sympathy because obviously yeah apple come on you got to make things work but also I'm a little bit IR rolling at the folks who are like yeah I can do this without a backup no problem it's all good it's just like come on guys if if you're GNA anything that's brand new even Spotify when it first launched in Europe was not everybody points to Spotify as like well Spotify can do it why can't Apple do it it's like spotify's had a couple years to get this down like they were operating for what two years three years before they came to the US like they had a lot of experimentation time oh yeah they started in Europe I the British Guinea on the Scandinavian guinea pig well maybe this is Tim Cook's plan to get people to let go of the music they've had since high school guys just just let go let go and on a programming not fenity very kindly joined Don Melton for this month's episode of his show and that's going to be up this weekend so you can hear uh don sort of in Full full on uh Inside Out anger mode and serenity just doing her best to solve all Lots yeah lots of problems yeah so Spotify launched in 2008 and they didn't launch in the US until 2011 oh wow so that they they had some time it's like Google Maps being ahead of Apple Maps they'll get there yeah because Google Maps had four years before Apple more than that four years four years on the iPhone and then another like three or four on the desktop so they they had like an eight to 10 year head start on Apple's I'm sure I had it on my Trio back in 2006 too Google Maps already I might I might still I have to find my Trio but and now Apple has Apple Maps so they can use that to show them where to go for Apple music it's just all works together it's a plan it's it's a map all the music stores as they close I'm going to take one more quick break and just tell you about another one of our awesome sponsors and that is red hat red hat is tried it's tested it is trusted it's for things that are simple but not necessarily easy now red hat is not a kind of habitatery it's not something you put upon your head like a a JY toque or a beret or something it is actually Enterprise software it is open- Source software but done with all the support that you would get from traditional proprietary software so what is open source software well if you're in the Apple ecosystem use it all the time the Mac kernel is open source Mack kernel BSD uh Unix the kind of the whole networking layer a lot of the stuff that OS 10 was built on is open- Source software webkit which Powers a Safari browser open source so we use it all the time but we kind of don't think about it and we especially don't think about it in Enterprise but that's where Red Hat lives they are in the Fortune 500 they're in Banks they're in executive branches of the government they're on every airline in the Fortune 500 sorry the fortune Global 500 90% of all companies in the Fortune 500 understand the value and support of enterprise 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you can get all the benefits of Open Source without the risk of doing it all yourself no one else can make that promise much less keep it so visit redh hat.com to see how they can help your Enterprise with application development storage and cloud computing Red Hat different for the sake of better technology they don't even want you to go to specific URL or buy something they just wanted us to tell you how great they were so thank you very much red hat for supporting the show I had no idea they made the planes run that's amazing they put little feet on them and then they jog them around the the runway they do lots of lots of magic there's only a little bit of other news this week Apple pay launched in the UK not in Canada yet same Queen still not still not allowed uh but it did launch in the UK there was a couple last minute bank jockeying I think HSBC was one of them but all in all it looks like people in the UK are incredibly happy with it Tim Cook tweeted a picture of people just going through uh the British transport Authority with their apple watches out and beeping along their way and it it's just it's so magical Ren it is magical I I'm I'm so happy that our our overseas Brethren are getting Apple pay no Canada yet no I'm sorry I got an email I'm just going to see if I can find it it came in this morning it was from someone in the UK who um was talking about just how magical Apple pay was so here it is this from Chris Harland and he was saying that he's a Canadian but he's in there and he he actually said it was like Harry Potter esque that uh you contactless payment is everywhere there and he's just going around tapping his watch even for the flights to and from there and I I is this not fair I think I think I was last there in like 2009 and they had all the chip cards and I felt like a gross caveman like my with my swipe card which is like a cassette tape glued onto a playing card it's just terrible yeah I went for I just I ran out to get lunch and coffee before the podcast and I paid for my lunch by just tapping my Visa card and I paid for my coffee by just scanning my Apple watch it's so amazing uh I want it everywhere and you are getting Discover card this year you are getting loyalty card I'm hoping that the loyalty card thing actually encourages more retailers because one of the things that has been has made some retailers hesitant is that apple does not share a lot of data and they will not share transaction data and traditionally um there's a whole bunch of stuff I used to do Market Basket analysis I used to work for a company that did Market Basket analysis and the the whole thing is if they can get one piece of data to to identify a customer even anonymously they can start building all these deep patterns around your behavior and they use that for stuff like what products to put together on a store shelf because you're more likely to buy Fritos with Coke than you are to buy uh Doritos with Coke and they do all this kind of stuff because they want to maximize their shell space and their profits uh and apple doesn't share that stuff but with a loyalty card you opt into it you're saying I will give you more insight into my shopping if you give me points and or discounts uh and it's not that they're mining your data it's that you're making an equitable exchange you're getting something for giving it and I think that will both sort of assuage Apple's privacy concerns but also let stores that may have been hesitant for having Apple pay to have it now with their loyalty cards yeah absolutely I'm really looking forward to actually seeing some loyalty card stuff in the wild I haven't seen anything yet obviously because iOS 9 is not officially out but do you use any I I used to have a bunch of them I'm gonna I forget I had the movie card I had the Best Buy card I had the AMC card um which sort of works in pass book right now um where you could scan like you every time you bought a movie ticket through um AMC and Fandango you'd get a 10 you'd get $10 and once you'd spent $100 then you'd get a $10 gift certificate that you could scan and use which is pretty cool man I'm never gonna have to tell the Staples cashier to go by my phone number again it's gonna be great I know that's what I'm really excited about is I'm like I don't want to give people my email address I would rather give people Apple pay and then have Apple pay do it for me so that way when I have to cancel things it's just going through one thing it's going through Apple so you are you saying that because it's simply a loyalty card presumably they can just pipe that data over to the other third party because it's not as concern it's not as dangerous well I think there's just it's a it's a way for Apple to be a middleman and protect your data where apple apple basically says here you have you have car you know Serenity Caldwell card on your mailing list but it doesn't actually give them my email address or my phone number it's just Serenity calwell card and then if I broke it it disappears from their system and they can't scrape that data and give it elsewhere at least that's what I understand so it's it's a like it's a serial number that they can build a pattern around not and not your life exactly decouple so like the thing with what what they traditionally want to do is associate it with your credit card and you have to use your credit card like you could pay cash but ideally you have very little control over that data with apple they give you a one-time number so they can't just use your credit card as a single identifying value anymore but with the loyalty card it's presumably something you signed up for you can't they can't enroll you on it it needs to be something voluntary so it it lets Apple decouple before you would automatically be tracked just on your credit card now you have to go to the trouble of getting a discrete loyalty card in order for all that to kick in so they can do the transactions without having to link those two things together so it's like it's almost like the difference between apps and web pages where like apple wants to protect you from malware by only being the only source of apps but you can load any web page you want yeah maybe exactly yeah no idiot version well one is that you've loed it in like you you like you have to have a credit card but you don't necessarily want to be tracked by it but you're you're is obvious if you get a loyalty card you're giving something to get it okay that's true and I guess you could pay cash and then pop your loyalty card out on your phone yep if that was what you wanted to do oh neat like my leg I have a Lego card that right now doesn't work with pass book but I hope it does and then whenever I buy Lego I get points and then I can use those points to get discounts off the next Lego and it it gets me to keep shopping at Lego so it increases my loyalty but also because I'm getting and redeeming points they have a better sense of what I'm buying what store I'm buying it at what fre quency I'm buying it which things I'm buying together um that sort of stuff so that gives them valuable data they can use to better arrange their stores better arrange their shipments all that kind of stuff man so if I asked you nicely could you influence them to make like golden girl Legos oh man that would be so awesome we're getting Doctor Who did people love that shirt at Comic-Con uh that I I have a golden girl shirt for everybody with that has all the names and that traditional like Sophia and blanch and Rose and whatever format that's the only thing I sold out of completely if you threw a party invited everyone you knew it's so good I made I made a t-shirt about them because I got that song stuck in my head for three weeks it thank you for being a friend Rich thank you for being a friend uh so sort of the last piece of business is we have a new monthly column Ren and it's all about awesome Apple history we do um I've been calling it the Mac Classic Time Machine unofficially Steen Stephen hacket um of 512 pixels and rock or rocket and relay FM Fame uh is writing a monthly history column for us on uh this first this first piece was the history of iTunes uh but we've also got the history you know he's he's got a lot of history and and interesting sort of Peaks into into the world of Apple before it was the tsunami we know it by now that sounds super cool yeah he's he's good people and he does his research so I I definitely recommend checking it out what I like about it so much is it's not just this is the history of Apple which in itself is fine but he uses it to provide enormous insight into what Apple's doing now because Apple's a really focused company and their strategy on music maybe the tactics have changed but the overall strategy can be similar and the same thing I think he did Cloud um at some he wrote something really interesting about the cloud a little while ago as well and it all of the stuff it just like you learn from history but he applies it towards the president that makes it incredibly valuable at least for me yeah I agree that sounds really cool all right Rich so when you are not gallivanting around the uh streets of ComiCon where can people find you on the interwebs um I think the best place is our Stevens on Twitter r s v NS so if they want to filter out anything that you're right they should just put that right into the exactly I'm just block me just plock you uh Ren what about you I can be found at Saturn set T RN on Twitter and Instagram and I'm more doing more music things but hopefully not troubleshooting fingers crossed awesome uh we have a buyer guide that just went live today if you're not sure whether to get the iPod touch or the iPad uh the iPhone which one to get which Mac all that stuff we have a really encapsulated version of our buyers guide with links to all the much longer ones so you can find that there we're also working on the iPod Touch review should have that up early next week and if you want to yell at me about things you can do that at Renee Richie George is on vacation she is atcore sorry she's at Georgia uncore Dow and Peter Coen was stuck in traffic uh Cape Cod must be tourist season you can find him atar f l f l a r g h don't forget the H he does get quite upset if you forget his age wow oh Cape Cod traffic oh that poor guy well apparently it's a cape yeah one way on one way out yeah I figure you could have a hovercraft by now I mean if you really wanted to get off the cape you could have hovercraft yeah just to make a uh a Causeway do what Florida does the Kennedy used to have a tunnel but I don't think they have it anymore well they have a whole they have a whole Space Center wrong cave that's Canaveral right yeah yeah well they're Quantum entangled that's fine it's good yeah they're close enough you walk through a wall yeah well I'm making Harry Potter joke but I'm gonna stop myself okay uh you can find all of us at imore you can find this show on iTunes iTunes is celebrating 10 years of podcast on iTunes which is unbelievable so sort of like as a final question uh ren do you have any do you have any favorites over the last 10 years you want to shout out oh my gosh well I'd be remiss um not to call out the incomparable since this is the podcast that got me started doing podcasts I was on episode three which is kind of insane to me we started in 2010 it's been five years as of this August and that's and it's also the the anniversary of me like starting Tech writing so it's like this crazy thing I joined a podcast and all of a sudden I was in this community uh but before that I actually have to shout out uh both both rich and Jeff Roland a cartoonist that I used to work with got me hooked on to podcasts and I hadn't really listened to them all that much before um but when I was working for Jeff I was uh in their their warehouse folding t-shirts and we just had podcasts going on constantly so we had Radio Lab and WTF and oh god um Rich what's the what's the creepy um oh you're thinking about Art Bell yeah yeah he used to host Coast to Coast AM but he's he's coming back next week is he really yeah he he got kicked off SiriusXM and now his non-compete just ended and he's about to do creepy stuff on his own that's fantastic yeah Coast to Coast AM the the weirdest uh supernaturalist everything is real and terrifying but also hilarious show that I've that I've ever heard on the internet I got called a Reptoid on there once deserve it High Praise dude High Praise what about you rich any big podcast memories uh right now I am finally catching up on look nice today which heard of it is crazy um and I'm addicted to rodick on the line and uh you must remember this has a wonderful series about uh movie stars during World War II from about six months ago which is just it's like I did not know any of this stuff it's wonderful was this the one you were trying to get to me to listen to like last month because yeah well they currently have a Charles Manson series but the Star Wars like the all the actors during World War II it's just mind-blowing I you you think of everybody you know pitching in the same way but then just the the Shades of Gray between these people yeah unbelievable I'm I'm putting this on my list to to listen to sounds awesome I I was just remembering that the the first two podcasts I stumbled upon were MC break weekly uh and the trio Central Trio cast because they had a trio back then and uh one was Leo Le back then it was Leo leaport Andy anako Merlin man Scott Bourne and Alex Lindsay and the trio cast was derer bone and Mike overbo and I then I realized that I I hosted Mac break weekly last week and deer hired me basically to run imore uh and I now do the imore show which he Mike started as one different podcast so I owe quite a lot of my life to podcasts and if if I had clicked on like cooking or I don't know bird watching podcast maybe I'd be in a very different place right now so very delicious Place very Del yeah absolutely so um yeah podcasts are phenomenal please check I don't have time to listen to them anymore which sounds lame but I don't commute anymore and you the more you write the less you read the more you you produce the less you listen to but guy English um I guess he's still a friend of the show guy English even after that horrible incident at WC we don't talk about that no uh he turned me on to the script the script notes podcast um by uh John August and Craig Mason which uh I don't write scripts but the lessons that they talk about and the ideas and experiences and insights they share for any writer is just absolutely invaluable and just their their style the great the the way the show is done everything about that the minute I see that's out I just listen to it immediately so I can't recommend it they're universally awesome that sounds great he he wrote Charlie's Angels what is not to Love Char Angels Big Fish yeah I don't know Charlie Ang nines so many great movies and Craig did uh all the hangover movies I mean just so much so much good stuff there anyway so check all that out once you're on iTunes please leave a review please leave a rating if you want to see the video version of the show youtube.com/ imor video and we'll be back next week with yet more podcasty stuff cool thanks guys thanks Ren bye everybody bye bye have funhey everyone it is July 17 2015 I'm Renee Richie and right now we're going to talk about all the new iPods this is the imore show joining me as always we have Serenity Caldwell how you doing Ren I'm doing all right um hanging out I've got a I've got a lovely new poster hanging out with me sty yeah St stompy stompy and trip to the moon don't quite get along right now I think I have to figure out a new place for one of them but so far they're uh they're in uh they're in battle right now awesome and also joining us we have the illustrious Rich Stevens how are you rich I'm all right I've I've lived longer and prospered more but I'm all right you've pced and and long lived yeah that was my star that was my Star Wars joke so you were you were at ComiCon how was it it was brutal but it was predict it was predictably brutal it was pretty good uh I only saw one famous person by accident but uh I had never been I've never been closer to Harrison Ford in my life it was only it was only about a mile it's a very short H radius to Harrison Ford yeah apparently Peak har you know Bonnie Burton used to work for yeah used to work for lucasfilm she was like this is the first time he's ever come to any of these things he's really excited apparently that makes me also excited because anytime Harrison Ford is actually committed to a project yeah I mean it's high as he is if he's excited it's good well he got his chewy back he did well he also probably got a lot of money and kalista's employed now I mean everybody's happy that's true oh I actually like the looks of Supergirl it looks like a fun show I've watched the pilot like four or five times now oh yeah yeah I actually liked it more than I thought I would cool it's got to be better than the Superman movies well rich I could talk to you about comic conization all day I could too maybe a different show yeah uh so Ren we got new iPods like nowhere uh it was It was kind of hinted in the uh in the source code and in the images of the new iTunes 122 update but uh yeah we've we've got new uh iPod shuffles iPod Nanos and iPod Touches and unfortunately two out of those three aside from a color change aren't that interesting so it literally is just a color change for the shuffle and the Nano yep and they don't even get access to to Apple music which frustrates the heck out of me because iPods have been able to play fair play since the first iPod Apple used to have DRM this is not a like oh we're so scared that you know you're going to walk away with our music and never syn it again this thing used to have Dr like used to Play DRM files so it's but we you know we also we also had two years of iPhones without copy and paste that's also true so I mean you never know you know I mean it could could be something that happens after the trial period because once everybody drops off their free trials absolutely or it could just be that everybody's too busy on the watch and the phone to build an OS update for the shuffle the Nano and the iPod Dutch I mean that poor Nano is still running what looks like iOS 6 oh except wrong except so wrong yeah it's it's the bastardized version of iOS 6 with like the little super bubbles and the and the Nike Plus like you couldn't have put in an m co-processor or something in there you're just going to stick with the Nike integration you have integration with the health app and you're not I don't know I just it's it felt so halfhearted to me and it made me sad because I I love I love iPods I love my little Shuffle you have a little so hold that up again Ren yeah baby baby and here here's a new version can we tell wow y you have you have you have space blue and I have um I don't know space science yeah I don't even know pan from here from here I couldn't even tell with a panone book yeah yours yours is a little bit darker yours is more costi or actually yours is more Boston Massacre colors mine is more cosmina colors to use rol Derby it's so much better than the Pantone scale are those is that pink new this week I is there a new I think the gold is new I don't think the pink is new the pink again like the blue it might be a new shade I have to look at them I have to look at them we lost greens even though though Apple watch bands are green and other stuff is green we've we lost all the greens yeah you'd think that they would have color matched with the Apple watch bands but that blue is different than the Apple watch blue band it's so weird so yeah so to richest so yeah I'm saying so yeah many many times in a row uh so the uh we did hear that the teams uh and John grber heard very similar things there they basically no assets were committed to this project Beyond new Colors by the design by the industrial design team so there were no software engine is assigned to update the iPod Nano's bastardized pixo IOS operating system uh and there was no there's basically nothing else done with them besides the color change I plugged mine in to see if there was an OS update and I think there was like a point. point release uh on my last year's iPod Nano um this one right here and uh that was it so they literally are as far as I can see because this got lightning in 2012 that was the big change that we got last time trying to get it to turn on we are we are stuck with years more of this look at those beautiful bubbles oh my gosh it's so painful this is the I mean look at the look at the music icon I think that's the that's the true kicker that orange that orange music icon when was the last time we had orange for our music oh week or two ago yeah no it's all oh it's turn on turn on six isn't it we had red wasn't it red before oh yeah it was red that's true yeah yeah so it's interesting it's interesting because of the duality in that they didn't want to commit any there's absolutely no Hardware team work done on this there was no software team work done on this there was a bit of industrial design done because we did get the new colors but they still wanted to release it they didn't want to just continue on they wanted I guess they wanted new colors for the iPod touch and they wanted all the iPods to match is that maybe the only reason it got any attention it's yeah I suppose but it just doesn't it doesn't make sense like releasing new iPods in conjunction with apple music I think makes a lot of sense because hey here is an actual service that you can use to sell iPods imagine that you know especially with running and things like that the shuffle like there are ways to make the shuffle to make the Nano interesting to people who don't necessarily want to buy the Apple watch yet right the Nano already has Bluetooth and if you added like an M7 co-processor with that and you used like Bluetooth syncing rather than plug-and play via iTunes the way that the watch does it like there are a lot of ways to make the iPod cool and relevant and potentially like yeah I would pick one up I would pick up a shuffle if it had a if it could send data over Bluetooth to my iPhone and like activity data that'd be great because sometimes you know sometimes you're not wearing the watch sometimes you just want to run with the shuffle sometimes you're on a roller derby track it doesn't really make sense like sometimes it's 100% humidity and you can't wear the watch yeah exactly the watch is not going to like you very much um so I just it it bums me out that there's a lot of potential that they could have done to make the iPod interesting that again probably wouldn't have cost the money it would probably have made the money uh but I think they're so resource constrained right now that it just doesn't make sense yeah I think because we uh again we heard John grber heard that they are all on uh working on the watch team and that's been true for a while now they basically they folded that whole team though all those people who were doing that work and they moved them right into the watch Division and they're really busy they're trying to get watch OS 2 shipped um by this fall so my guess is Ren and maybe I'm nuts my guess is that Apple music is slightly different than traditional Fairplay DRM which these Nanos and and Shuffle still do support uh if you have Legacy content uh no one should have Legacy content anymore but if you do I believe they still support it this is different uh and creating a Bluetooth sync stack enabling the DRM on this all of that would have taken an engineer maybe two engineers and they just didn't get them they didn't have the time yeah and I I guess there's there is a possibility that they'll fix the uh the shuffle and the Nano but it doesn't seem like it from their page like the page is very much like bring your music whereas the the iPod Touch is very much like apple music you have access to this isn't this great so I don't know it just bums me out it's entirely possible they just bought some paint last week and they put this out to pay for Taylor Swift's uh paid streaming yeah exactly we need to sell 100,000 iPod shuffles to make up they had it left in the can they had it left in the can cover it fine I mean at least it's a little bit better than Prime day but hey Prime day had like extra delicious cans of spaghetti on sale spaghetti and a can I I that yeah so this is a legacy product and you said it perfectly in your article on this R you're ending who was just one of the best endings ever and I think that's that's true like this is a holdover it's a product for people who will not let go of their shuffles and Nanos who maybe need new hardware or people who want them in a different color but this it doesn't seem like these are long for the world no so like this is that 2012 MacBook Pro that just sticks around forever the non retina yeah yeah yeah I think I think that's a good analogy uh and they'll eventually disappear and and as the watches become more and more capable and maybe that that platform maybe won't stay on a watch maybe that platform be moved over but the a non iOS device that cannot connect to iCloud I think is not something Apple wants in the future yeah so but good news great news I now have an iPod touching gold oh yeah here's the old one so fancy the new one is missing the uh little the loop yeah the loop thing how much do you think AT&T pays Apple per year not to give you a cell cellular option for the iPod Touch oh probably Millions right that's most of Apple's profit right there like I don't know if it's like so there's a lot of things about those cellular options the reason it cost $130 extra on the iPad is because anytime you have to include a cellular modem uh you have to pay Qualcomm anytime you have to include CDMA because people in America just won't get off of it uh you have to pay them an exorbitant amount and I believe it's on retail not even on wholesale so what one of the reasons I believe it's still not on the MacBooks because Apple doesn't want to give up 10 to 15% profits on MacBook sales on retail value for for a modem and if you add 130 bucks to an iPod touch I don't know how competitive it is even if they wanted to do it anymore yeah I just I want that pink one is my phone I love that that 4 inch with the pink it's beautiful it really is although you could I mean who knows we might see a 6C yeah we want to talk about that so that's grber and I talked about that a while ago when I was on the talk show and Jason sell brought it back up this week on uh six colors the idea that Apple managed to get an A8 processor into something as Tiny and thin as a 4 in uh barely three-dimensional that's soti beautiful iPod Touch yeah so rich you you want a 4inch iPhone uh iPhone 6 class device I honestly I still keep my iPhone 5 around because sometimes it's just more comfortable to use I don't I'm not sold on the big stuff you know like I care I like a phone and a laptop I'm those are my that's where I hang out so I want the smallest phone I can get really yeah you know I uh I go back and forth because I was actually using a 5S um to do the Apple music testing I had my beta on the six and I do kind of miss that form factor it's like it's really comfy in your hand you know it's like yeah like there's something really nice about this and then you add the uh the new sort of curved form factor of the the iPod Touch it's like I mean I wish um Renee do you have your 5S to compare to the yeah I'm just holding it up my five it could use my my six plus like it could Hollow it out like a tonon and use it to stay warm and yeah it's pretty ridiculous it fits in the in the screen size alone can you hold up the 5s next to the touch you got like a kangaroo going there yeah living in its belly oh it's so pretty though here here's all the I'll put them this way around so you can see all the gold things but look at that look at the beautiful back on that thing yeah they're they're great for people who are listening and not watching we're just we're just staring at gold as if we could own it and and sell it like like gnomes or but the gold just the back of that iPod touch with none of those well it's got the window still got the black RF transparent window on the top at least at least that looks intentional that looks like some kind of cool sensor as opposed to these weird stripes on the back of the iPhone 6 like a sylon of course the uh the iPod Touch doesn't get touch ID and it doesn't get NFC sad face no no no NFC but can you pair an iPod Touch to your watch no oh cheapers yeah you're your hope of using an iPod touch as a phone is H still a little bit Out Of Reach yeah I at least paired to an iPad or something yeah no apparent it's it's only the phone right now because of the cellular data I need to go talk to Timmy so I find it super interesting because uh I like Serenity ended up using an iPhone 5 actually use an iPhone an iPhone 5 not a 5S um for Apple music because I had the public beta on one phone I had the uh developer beta on the other phone and I needed something that was on .4 so I went back to the iPhone 5 and I I'm the opposite like it feels a little heavy to me now and it feels a little dense a little brick-like and it's weird to say to something that's thin but it's just the screen is so claustrophobic my brain was fine this my brain thought this was big in 200 when the iPhone 5 came out it was like a revelation oh look how much bigger it is and now going back to it I'm almost stressed because there I'm like not enough screen not enough screen and I I feel like Chewy's holding up the wall on the compactor holding it away from me uh and I go back but I find it interesting that when we had 4-in iPhones for a while there were a lot of really big Android phones and people are like please please make a bigger phone we need a bigger phone and now we have bigger phones we hear the opposite end of the spectrum going please please make a smaller phone we need a smaller phone and it's not intuitive to me what SI like does Apple make a 4 inch a four and a half inch and a 5 and a half inch phone do they need three is there any way two phones could covered if they don't want to make 3D phones could they still I I don't know where The Sweet Spot is to get the biggest address ible audience well they have like nine sizes of laptops right now so I mean you never know yeah I mean it's entirely possible that we'll see the uh the the iPhone small the iPhone medium the iPhone big well I mean the way you were talking about people not wanting to let go of their physical files on the old iPods if they had offered a 4-in new phone last year I bet people would have just resisted it you have to like go all or nothing and then then you can give it back yeah exactly take it away and then like all right all right you can have it you you demonstrated that you can you can you're adult enough to deal with it but most people are like into it now so they can offer it again and then the other 20% will jump back well there's a pricing problem too in that right now you have $199 and 299 for the six and the six plus which would theoretically because they're using size as a differentiator theoretically position uh a 4in phone at $99 and them putting all the new technology and a $99 phone is probably not feasible for them so the whole iPhone 6c Theory is that they will when they introduce the six and sorry the 6 S Plus and the 6s they'll take the six guts so it'll be a year older technology and that would let them have the $100 cheaper because you're not getting the latest for an even lower price makes sense yeah I mean you could also look at something like uh just dropping at $50 instead of dropping at 100 making it $150 with subsidy as opposed to like $199 149 and four gigabytes hey you can do a lot with four gigabytes no you could do nothing with four gigabytes can you even that's five I don't think you g we about to say that I don't think you can install not iOS 8 maybe iOS 9 yeah uh we're gonna take a quick break and I am going to tell you about one of our wonderful sponsors and that is linda.com linda.com is an online learning platform with over 3,000 on demand video courses to help you strengthen your business technology and creative skills for a free 10-day trial is at linda.com imore so what is Linda for Linda is for problem solvers for the Curious for people want to make things happen maybe you want to master Excel learn negotiating tactics build a website boost your Photoshop SK skills go to linda.com and feed your curious mind right now we have a ton of new stuff being released there's new versions of office that have come out even for the Mac there's new versions of photo of all the Adobe stuff ad obcc has been updated and linda.com is on top of all that they almost always have something out immediately when a product is launched or very soon thereafter and it's not just you know me trying to teach you how to use this stuff because I really don't have any idea it's it's experts it's the best people in the industry that are doing this and you can watch them you can watch them on your iPhone on your iPad on your Android device if that's how if that's how you want to roll you can stream thousands of video courses on demand you can learn at your own schedule learn at your own pace you can watch the whole thing or watch just a little bit of it it's all indexed for you there's transcripts for all of it uh it's amazingly friendly it's almost and I'm using this analogy again it is almost like the closest thing we have to jacking into the Matrix and downloading Kung 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think apple as much as they did bring the iPod Touch into into the present they leapt It Forward from 2012 into the present they gave it an A8 processor they gave it an 8 megapixel camera they did not give it the new screens they did not give it touch ID I think that's still because it's a $200 device and it's and the fact that they gave it colors and made it a low price point to me says it's it's never going to be equal to what an a flagship iPhone is yeah I think it's going to be difficult again we're talking about how much money they can conceivably uh put into a product while still selling it at some kind of a profit the iPods already are declining uh in terms of profit revenue and we've known that for years and there's really a question of okay well how you know how much can I put in here to make this appealing for kids who have devices and you know want to listen to music and parents don't necessarily want to give them a full-fledged iPhone without making it so fancy or so expensive that either it becomes horrible to replace um or too ex yeah too too high priced uh so yeah I don't know I'm I'm of two minds on that partially because I think the current market or the current way that they're marketing the iPod Touch is very much like it's the 2015 Game Boy play all of your favorite iOS toite all of your games on it and listen to music if you're into that sort of thing and 14 to 17 year olds generally aren't paying for a lot of things with Apple pay or touch ID do most iPod Touches go to kids is that is that the deal from what I can like from all of the iPod Touch purchases I know of from my non-tech friends it's usually children or young young like young adults uh teenagers people who can afford not to attach a debit card yeah exactly or developers who just got a new Beta And I want to put it on their phone yeah or that I mean it's entirely possible that the iPod Touch was just made for developers who are testing eight and N to be like we understand but also we're going to give give you a 4-in screen because you don't need it six we we've we've stopped charging you separately for every developer program we'd like $200 for this testing device yes exactly the thing that's and I did I did a whole buyer guide on this earlier in the week but when you put the 4inch iPad sorry the iPod touchdown next to the 7.9 in iPad Mini uh it's really interesting because the latest version of iPad mini iPad Mini 3 doesn't it does have Touch ID but it doesn't have an A8 as far as I understand it Apple couldn't scale production of the A8 to to meet all the devices they had to produce last year now you know it was never a problem putting an A8 in one of these it was having enough a8s to put them in all the devices so you get you don't get as good a camera in the iPad Mini you don't get as good a processor but uh you do get touch ID you do get the bigger screen it is more expensive it's it's not a clear sort of a comparison I tried to weigh through it as much as I could but I know like just anecdotally my God kids moved from iPod Touches to iPad minis because they wanted the bigger screen and ren I'm not sure do you have an idea of the approximate values here for people what in terms of what choosing between an iPod Touch now or an iPad Mini now that touch is finally updated an iPad Touch versus an iPad Mini I honestly think it depends on um size like how how much you're willing to add to your um your general weight package I feel like games on a 4in screen versus games on a mini are obviously that's probably going to be better with the bigger screen but there are some games especially like tilts and point and shoots that don't make so much sense with that that bigger device I've tried playing games on an iPad mini and I almost always go back to the iPhone because yes it's a bigger screen it's nicer but I I I like the handheld feel we've grown up with the handheld like being able to hold it maybe hold it with one hand and like press our virtual a button while we drink I think for photography too like it's got the better camera and it's more portable and it's the shape of a camera when I my last iPod Touch before it vanished into the Wilds I think at Comic-Con a few years ago I didn't it I didn't do it I'm sure it wasn't you uh my last iPod Touch I used almost exclusively as a camera uh where I was just like you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna attempt to use a second device as a camera and I just had an iPod touch with an all clip on it I just used it non-stop do do you like the camera on that Renee uh so it's an 8 megapixel camera now it's not equivalent to the 8 megapixel camera on the iPhone maybe somewhere between the F the 4S and the five it's it seems to me so far I've only had it for a few hours is sort of like the iPad Air 2's camera okay where it's good but not great I mean it's good it's good compared to most camera phones most camera phones are terrible uh but cameras like Zed index and if you notice the this is barely raised and on an iPhone which is a thicker device uh it's quite a bit um raised so you just you're not getting as much camera and like there's no Optical image stabilization the way there is in an iPhone 6 Plus and so I think it's good I think it's it's better uh than the iPad Mini for sure it's about equivalent to the iPad Air but if you want to be portable with it this is way smaller than an iPad Air so is this the new throwaway camera is this the new disposable camera don't throw it away I know well you use it once when the battery runs out you toss it right yeah do9 I S 1999 bucks you just you pick them up like like Pringles they're amazing I was going to make a little suit out of them it's odd to me though because the game performance with the A8 is so good um it just it's an odd device for me now I think there are people who really love the iPod touch and they'll be super happy with this update but I just I don't know where it sits going forward either now that you know the iPads are more numerous and I don't know what's a stocking stuffer now you know if it's $199 it's the only little thing when it works well Grandma can just pick it up for 16 gigs yeah yeah it feels weird to be like 199 it's a stocking stuffer it's no problem like it feels a little 1center to say that but at the same time it is like for Apple devices well yeah I mean compared to like a $66,000 iPhone yeah contract yeah exactly and but now this is the sad thing is like these these became so cheap that I felt like I had started collecting the shuffles because I was like they're super cheap and they come in so many different colors and they're adorable and you can clip them on things and now I'm like now they're essentially useless with anything other than purchased music which makes me sad yeah so there is Apple music on the iPod Touch so I guess if you do also want a very low C like if you want just to put your kids on Apple music I don't want have to get them a bigger device or a more powerful device sorry it is more powerful but a bigger device or something they can do more with they I keep phrasing this incredibly badly if you just want to get your kids on Apple music this is an a good entry level way of doing that well SL it's Apple music in their pocket without buying them a cell phone contract yes so maybe this is the client for the family plan like this this is the way that that second and third person gets on the Apple music plan yeah I think that's very my iPod shuffle my iPod Touch turned off I'm very sad oh it knows you're talking about it it had battery life what happened I don't know all right well sort of any closing thoughts on the iPods Ren any any uh last minute advice any any wishes any hopes I mean I think people know my wishes I I wish Apple had put more thought into the new iPods because I still love the iPods um but yeah I mean for for people who have uh younger children or for people who need a testing device um or just need everything in gold all of the time uh this is an option this is it's it's definitely exciting to see that Apple has not outright abandoned the iPod line but I I honestly think any future Innovations in small music players is probably go into this thing which to the people who are not watching I'm pointing at my watch it's such an attention grabber the watch it just takes all the sucking all the air out of the iPod room yeah but it doesn't have a headphone jack so what's the point Wireless future is Bluetooth oh actually that's a uh that's a great uh plug for our contest this week Renee oh yeah uh Ren you you started up the photography contest again yeah I did um so we're doing or attempting to do as long as our schedules permit a bi-weekly contest on imore um where we'd love to see your iPhone photography or otherwise uh this week we're doing th we're having you guys take uh photos of yourselves or your products jamming out to Apple music um so if you yeah exactly uh devil horns and everything um so if you send an uh if you post a photo on Instagram with I think hash imore does Apple music uh or you post in our imore photo contest thread you will be entered to win a pair of bluetooth headphones um which I think is the Java sport um I have to look at the yeah the all of these Bluetooth headphones have like super long weird names um but they're they're pretty good they're pretty good headphones I've tested them before and for decent decent Bluetooth headphones under $100 and they work with the Apple watch they do work with the Apple watch you can get your you can get your Beats on with your Beats on so there's your there's your complaining struck Rich you you can enter our contest and get bluetoo headphones Bluetooth Bluetooth headphones for some reason just don't work with my head I don't know if it's like what's in the water content of my brain or what I just I lose I lose contact with them so much it's crazy yeah they just slip I do like the the sort of retro yellow headphones you're rocking right now oh yeah these are Bluetooth but they have a they have a headphone jack cable huh yeah wait a minute that sounds like a con job to me buy these expensive bluetooth headphones just plug them in and they work great I got them because they they have a yeti on the side and they have like this cool cloth top and I thought I could get into wireless headphones but I could not so I I hedged my bet got one with a chord that you can use an external cord with before the show you were Neil younging about iPhone music quality too not iPhone music quality just that I think the the interface is garbage I think the newest Apple music interface is better than it used to be on the iPhone but there's just nothing like a click wheel like I love just sliding without looking that's me tactile physical feedback yep yeah I I I want a case that like covers over the front and then gives me iPod buttons you know like for my fingers could you force touch any goodness there stred if you made like a good Force touch interface you could yeah you could have the little vibration if you were moving and I'm I'm kind of sad that um the Beats Music to Apple music transition got rid of Beats music's beautiful uh turn click wheel where you could actually see the progress of a song and scrub through it by doing the click what if you force click down and actually now it works like a a virtual quick click wheel oh I'd be into that there's lots of Po potential for forced touch so uh so Apple hurry up and put it into your iOS devices already please I I showed some people forced touch on the laptop last week and no one believed me until I turned off the laptop that it wasn't moving it's pretty fun that's awesome which uh which MacBook did you end up getting rich I went up with a space gr 12 inch 128 no 256 I believe nice you have you have my Envy you want it I do okay I have like nine laptops right now like Pringles so things like Pringles I pick them up cheap and then I kind of sell them to people but it's it's a long story yeah I mean you just can't leave a laptop without a home it's just sad no I know I'm using you don't even want to know yeah the thing for me is that the music app now has such a level of complexity and the ellipse button the more button is basically the new hamburger button and oh my God it's so many things and I'm just hoping that Force press will let them sort of like in the watch which is bury that complexity you get it out of my almost like you know when the guy on the deck of the of the battleship where the aircraft carrier says clear my skies and all the planes just clear my inace and make it like nice and and Spartan and beautiful again and then when I force touch on something all those options will po will like just pop up yeah I just I keep on going back to you know design four five six years ago I'm trying to imagine you know even forall with his love for extraneous things leather see yeah exactly seeing a popup show you eight different things I feel like you know you'd have somebody like Steve or one of the employ just being like how the F do I use this thing maybe that's why they have the bigger screens now they knew this was coming yeah they're like people want more complexity in their devices we're just giving them what they asked for when I hit three dots on the screen I want the entire screen to just pop up options I want to rightclick God well let me tell you what we have planned for you rich Ste I think forall was always like the like the exomorphic stuff was really a Steve Jobs thing that that Scott forall managed but I think he was a big proponent of usability and there's probably he might have interceded on something like this but it would be comical to have that Steve Jobs scene where he's like what is this app supposed to do U managing music s then why doesn't it do that and flers why doesn't it work then why am I seeing updates from Drake well there is a huge tension here just from a design point of view that if your mandate is make one single thought one unified thought one coherent thought about music which is essentially marching orders for putting it all into one app and you have this list of features in terms of just shoving everything into an app they did a pretty good job they just managed to get everything in there uh in some semblance of order but I would just argue that maybe all these you could have two or three thoughts about music yeah I don't I also going back to remember the old keyboard problems where you can't tell if your shift key is on or not yes really like to make it more clear as to whether or not music is on my device yes as opposed to just floa you know what iTunes does this really well there's the iCloud status thing and you just see the the cloud and not the cloud and even honestly um stupid Beats Music did this as well where you had the little you had the little phone icon on anything that was locally downloaded and this is on some things this is on albums and playlists in music if you download a full album you'll get that little icon but it doesn't actually show up in list View and yes exactly it's frustrating why couldn't you just color code them see I thought it was just me being stupid not understanding the code but go propor hawk yeah yeah um I just watched that episode great oh West Wing oh oh long time wow yes we have some real time follow and he wants to know how does a multi- we get this a lot how does a multi-billion dollar company not have enough people to allocate to that project that project meaning the iPod project hire more people and the answer to this is you can never have enough people and Apple is is more constrained than others because they would really only want people who are willing to work in copertino so there's incredible competition from the Facebook from the Googles especially from the startups that can offer engineers in incredible incentives like public offerings and stock that is right now very small but could theoretically be very big so it's fiercely competitive to get these engineers and when you do get them you have to assign them to your highest priority projects and even those projects do not have enough engineers then you get into the mythical man month where just adding people doesn't necessarily solve problems because the more people you add the more management overhead you add to it and Apple trally has very very small teams so they're just declaring this not a priority and then assigning their assets where they think that and I hate calling humans assets but assigning their Engineers where they think they'll do the most good so if they had their brothers they would have as many Engineers as they possibly could but it's never that easy yeah I mean how many people are actually qualified to do that too like how do you train them for two years so they can update the iPod yeah like we what is there I'm the I'm the guy in charge of the mutant pixo inter I mean like yeah yeah it's a little insane youve got you've got to cut off edq where Phil really hard in the Apple parking lot to get assigned that job uh Ren you spent a lot of the week once again troubleshooting Apple music are we getting somewhere with this now are we solidifying are we stabilizing yes if sh better the update definitely helped some people I know Kirk mcgall is still in horrible Apple Music Land I think the large problem is that a lot of people were expecting it to work like iTunes Match and they were going into it um either with incomplete libraries or um just going into it with very complex metadata and then expecting that Apple music would magically deal with all of that that's not a it's not an incorrect assumption to have have in that you know I would like my music to work and I'd like all of these meticulously crafted things to stay where they are it's very optimistic though yes but exactly it's like you are an early adopter to a to a big project to Apple's first Venture into really cloud-based music they've been doing the iTunes Match thing for years but that's the other thing you've had four years to see how Apple has not exactly succeeded at dealing with complex libraries and the amount of people who are like I'm just going to upgrade and I'm not going to back up my iTunes library that I've crafted for six years oh it's fine and then when something happens they're like but my library so I don't know I I have sympathy because obviously yeah apple come on you got to make things work but also I'm a little bit IR rolling at the folks who are like yeah I can do this without a backup no problem it's all good it's just like come on guys if if you're GNA anything that's brand new even Spotify when it first launched in Europe was not everybody points to Spotify as like well Spotify can do it why can't Apple do it it's like spotify's had a couple years to get this down like they were operating for what two years three years before they came to the US like they had a lot of experimentation time oh yeah they started in Europe I the British Guinea on the Scandinavian guinea pig well maybe this is Tim Cook's plan to get people to let go of the music they've had since high school guys just just let go let go and on a programming not fenity very kindly joined Don Melton for this month's episode of his show and that's going to be up this weekend so you can hear uh don sort of in Full full on uh Inside Out anger mode and serenity just doing her best to solve all Lots yeah lots of problems yeah so Spotify launched in 2008 and they didn't launch in the US until 2011 oh wow so that they they had some time it's like Google Maps being ahead of Apple Maps they'll get there yeah because Google Maps had four years before Apple more than that four years four years on the iPhone and then another like three or four on the desktop so they they had like an eight to 10 year head start on Apple's I'm sure I had it on my Trio back in 2006 too Google Maps already I might I might still I have to find my Trio but and now Apple has Apple Maps so they can use that to show them where to go for Apple music it's just all works together it's a plan it's it's a map all the music stores as they close I'm going to take one more quick break and just tell you about another one of our awesome sponsors and that is red hat red hat is tried it's tested it is trusted it's for things that are simple but not necessarily easy now red hat is not a kind of habitatery it's not something you put upon your head like a a JY toque or a beret or something it is actually Enterprise software it is open- Source software but done with all the support that you would get from traditional proprietary software so what is open source software well if you're in the Apple ecosystem use it all the time the Mac kernel is open source Mack kernel BSD uh Unix the kind of the whole networking layer a lot of the stuff that OS 10 was built on is open- Source software webkit which Powers a Safari browser open source so we use it all the time but we kind of don't think about it and we especially don't think about it in Enterprise but that's where Red Hat lives they are in the Fortune 500 they're in Banks they're in executive branches of the government they're on every airline in the Fortune 500 sorry the fortune Global 500 90% of all companies in the Fortune 500 understand the value and support of enterprise software that is open source but also has all of that support so um if the value of Open Source is a rapid Innovation Freedom interoperability that comes with com Community power technology then the value of red hat is taking responsibility that technology testing it enhancing the security and certifying it that it will work in your data center I've worked in Enterprise before Enterprise for a decade we had tons of Open Source stuff if if you just use Open Source by yourself that's fine but what you're saving in money you're often paying off in time because it takes a lot of people to troubleshoot and fix this and if a Google search doesn't tell you what's wrong you're often looking at a really big investment of time and resources to fix it with red hat they're there for you they're there supporting it uh it's not just Linux it's not just data center it's not just servers it's all stuff that they have put together and they know how to run it's simple again but not easy they make sure you can get all the benefits of Open Source without the risk of doing it all yourself no one else can make that promise much less keep it so visit redh hat.com to see how they can help your Enterprise with application development storage and cloud computing Red Hat different for the sake of better technology they don't even want you to go to specific URL or buy something they just wanted us to tell you how great they were so thank you very much red hat for supporting the show I had no idea they made the planes run that's amazing they put little feet on them and then they jog them around the the runway they do lots of lots of magic there's only a little bit of other news this week Apple pay launched in the UK not in Canada yet same Queen still not still not allowed uh but it did launch in the UK there was a couple last minute bank jockeying I think HSBC was one of them but all in all it looks like people in the UK are incredibly happy with it Tim Cook tweeted a picture of people just going through uh the British transport Authority with their apple watches out and beeping along their way and it it's just it's so magical Ren it is magical I I'm I'm so happy that our our overseas Brethren are getting Apple pay no Canada yet no I'm sorry I got an email I'm just going to see if I can find it it came in this morning it was from someone in the UK who um was talking about just how magical Apple pay was so here it is this from Chris Harland and he was saying that he's a Canadian but he's in there and he he actually said it was like Harry Potter esque that uh you contactless payment is everywhere there and he's just going around tapping his watch even for the flights to and from there and I I is this not fair I think I think I was last there in like 2009 and they had all the chip cards and I felt like a gross caveman like my with my swipe card which is like a cassette tape glued onto a playing card it's just terrible yeah I went for I just I ran out to get lunch and coffee before the podcast and I paid for my lunch by just tapping my Visa card and I paid for my coffee by just scanning my Apple watch it's so amazing uh I want it everywhere and you are getting Discover card this year you are getting loyalty card I'm hoping that the loyalty card thing actually encourages more retailers because one of the things that has been has made some retailers hesitant is that apple does not share a lot of data and they will not share transaction data and traditionally um there's a whole bunch of stuff I used to do Market Basket analysis I used to work for a company that did Market Basket analysis and the the whole thing is if they can get one piece of data to to identify a customer even anonymously they can start building all these deep patterns around your behavior and they use that for stuff like what products to put together on a store shelf because you're more likely to buy Fritos with Coke than you are to buy uh Doritos with Coke and they do all this kind of stuff because they want to maximize their shell space and their profits uh and apple doesn't share that stuff but with a loyalty card you opt into it you're saying I will give you more insight into my shopping if you give me points and or discounts uh and it's not that they're mining your data it's that you're making an equitable exchange you're getting something for giving it and I think that will both sort of assuage Apple's privacy concerns but also let stores that may have been hesitant for having Apple pay to have it now with their loyalty cards yeah absolutely I'm really looking forward to actually seeing some loyalty card stuff in the wild I haven't seen anything yet obviously because iOS 9 is not officially out but do you use any I I used to have a bunch of them I'm gonna I forget I had the movie card I had the Best Buy card I had the AMC card um which sort of works in pass book right now um where you could scan like you every time you bought a movie ticket through um AMC and Fandango you'd get a 10 you'd get $10 and once you'd spent $100 then you'd get a $10 gift certificate that you could scan and use which is pretty cool man I'm never gonna have to tell the Staples cashier to go by my phone number again it's gonna be great I know that's what I'm really excited about is I'm like I don't want to give people my email address I would rather give people Apple pay and then have Apple pay do it for me so that way when I have to cancel things it's just going through one thing it's going through Apple so you are you saying that because it's simply a loyalty card presumably they can just pipe that data over to the other third party because it's not as concern it's not as dangerous well I think there's just it's a it's a way for Apple to be a middleman and protect your data where apple apple basically says here you have you have car you know Serenity Caldwell card on your mailing list but it doesn't actually give them my email address or my phone number it's just Serenity calwell card and then if I broke it it disappears from their system and they can't scrape that data and give it elsewhere at least that's what I understand so it's it's a like it's a serial number that they can build a pattern around not and not your life exactly decouple so like the thing with what what they traditionally want to do is associate it with your credit card and you have to use your credit card like you could pay cash but ideally you have very little control over that data with apple they give you a one-time number so they can't just use your credit card as a single identifying value anymore but with the loyalty card it's presumably something you signed up for you can't they can't enroll you on it it needs to be something voluntary so it it lets Apple decouple before you would automatically be tracked just on your credit card now you have to go to the trouble of getting a discrete loyalty card in order for all that to kick in so they can do the transactions without having to link those two things together so it's like it's almost like the difference between apps and web pages where like apple wants to protect you from malware by only being the only source of apps but you can load any web page you want yeah maybe exactly yeah no idiot version well one is that you've loed it in like you you like you have to have a credit card but you don't necessarily want to be tracked by it but you're you're is obvious if you get a loyalty card you're giving something to get it okay that's true and I guess you could pay cash and then pop your loyalty card out on your phone yep if that was what you wanted to do oh neat like my leg I have a Lego card that right now doesn't work with pass book but I hope it does and then whenever I buy Lego I get points and then I can use those points to get discounts off the next Lego and it it gets me to keep shopping at Lego so it increases my loyalty but also because I'm getting and redeeming points they have a better sense of what I'm buying what store I'm buying it at what fre quency I'm buying it which things I'm buying together um that sort of stuff so that gives them valuable data they can use to better arrange their stores better arrange their shipments all that kind of stuff man so if I asked you nicely could you influence them to make like golden girl Legos oh man that would be so awesome we're getting Doctor Who did people love that shirt at Comic-Con uh that I I have a golden girl shirt for everybody with that has all the names and that traditional like Sophia and blanch and Rose and whatever format that's the only thing I sold out of completely if you threw a party invited everyone you knew it's so good I made I made a t-shirt about them because I got that song stuck in my head for three weeks it thank you for being a friend Rich thank you for being a friend uh so sort of the last piece of business is we have a new monthly column Ren and it's all about awesome Apple history we do um I've been calling it the Mac Classic Time Machine unofficially Steen Stephen hacket um of 512 pixels and rock or rocket and relay FM Fame uh is writing a monthly history column for us on uh this first this first piece was the history of iTunes uh but we've also got the history you know he's he's got a lot of history and and interesting sort of Peaks into into the world of Apple before it was the tsunami we know it by now that sounds super cool yeah he's he's good people and he does his research so I I definitely recommend checking it out what I like about it so much is it's not just this is the history of Apple which in itself is fine but he uses it to provide enormous insight into what Apple's doing now because Apple's a really focused company and their strategy on music maybe the tactics have changed but the overall strategy can be similar and the same thing I think he did Cloud um at some he wrote something really interesting about the cloud a little while ago as well and it all of the stuff it just like you learn from history but he applies it towards the president that makes it incredibly valuable at least for me yeah I agree that sounds really cool all right Rich so when you are not gallivanting around the uh streets of ComiCon where can people find you on the interwebs um I think the best place is our Stevens on Twitter r s v NS so if they want to filter out anything that you're right they should just put that right into the exactly I'm just block me just plock you uh Ren what about you I can be found at Saturn set T RN on Twitter and Instagram and I'm more doing more music things but hopefully not troubleshooting fingers crossed awesome uh we have a buyer guide that just went live today if you're not sure whether to get the iPod touch or the iPad uh the iPhone which one to get which Mac all that stuff we have a really encapsulated version of our buyers guide with links to all the much longer ones so you can find that there we're also working on the iPod Touch review should have that up early next week and if you want to yell at me about things you can do that at Renee Richie George is on vacation she is atcore sorry she's at Georgia uncore Dow and Peter Coen was stuck in traffic uh Cape Cod must be tourist season you can find him atar f l f l a r g h don't forget the H he does get quite upset if you forget his age wow oh Cape Cod traffic oh that poor guy well apparently it's a cape yeah one way on one way out yeah I figure you could have a hovercraft by now I mean if you really wanted to get off the cape you could have hovercraft yeah just to make a uh a Causeway do what Florida does the Kennedy used to have a tunnel but I don't think they have it anymore well they have a whole they have a whole Space Center wrong cave that's Canaveral right yeah yeah well they're Quantum entangled that's fine it's good yeah they're close enough you walk through a wall yeah well I'm making Harry Potter joke but I'm gonna stop myself okay uh you can find all of us at imore you can find this show on iTunes iTunes is celebrating 10 years of podcast on iTunes which is unbelievable so sort of like as a final question uh ren do you have any do you have any favorites over the last 10 years you want to shout out oh my gosh well I'd be remiss um not to call out the incomparable since this is the podcast that got me started doing podcasts I was on episode three which is kind of insane to me we started in 2010 it's been five years as of this August and that's and it's also the the anniversary of me like starting Tech writing so it's like this crazy thing I joined a podcast and all of a sudden I was in this community uh but before that I actually have to shout out uh both both rich and Jeff Roland a cartoonist that I used to work with got me hooked on to podcasts and I hadn't really listened to them all that much before um but when I was working for Jeff I was uh in their their warehouse folding t-shirts and we just had podcasts going on constantly so we had Radio Lab and WTF and oh god um Rich what's the what's the creepy um oh you're thinking about Art Bell yeah yeah he used to host Coast to Coast AM but he's he's coming back next week is he really yeah he he got kicked off SiriusXM and now his non-compete just ended and he's about to do creepy stuff on his own that's fantastic yeah Coast to Coast AM the the weirdest uh supernaturalist everything is real and terrifying but also hilarious show that I've that I've ever heard on the internet I got called a Reptoid on there once deserve it High Praise dude High Praise what about you rich any big podcast memories uh right now I am finally catching up on look nice today which heard of it is crazy um and I'm addicted to rodick on the line and uh you must remember this has a wonderful series about uh movie stars during World War II from about six months ago which is just it's like I did not know any of this stuff it's wonderful was this the one you were trying to get to me to listen to like last month because yeah well they currently have a Charles Manson series but the Star Wars like the all the actors during World War II it's just mind-blowing I you you think of everybody you know pitching in the same way but then just the the Shades of Gray between these people yeah unbelievable I'm I'm putting this on my list to to listen to sounds awesome I I was just remembering that the the first two podcasts I stumbled upon were MC break weekly uh and the trio Central Trio cast because they had a trio back then and uh one was Leo Le back then it was Leo leaport Andy anako Merlin man Scott Bourne and Alex Lindsay and the trio cast was derer bone and Mike overbo and I then I realized that I I hosted Mac break weekly last week and deer hired me basically to run imore uh and I now do the imore show which he Mike started as one different podcast so I owe quite a lot of my life to podcasts and if if I had clicked on like cooking or I don't know bird watching podcast maybe I'd be in a very different place right now so very delicious Place very Del yeah absolutely so um yeah podcasts are phenomenal please check I don't have time to listen to them anymore which sounds lame but I don't commute anymore and you the more you write the less you read the more you you produce the less you listen to but guy English um I guess he's still a friend of the show guy English even after that horrible incident at WC we don't talk about that no uh he turned me on to the script the script notes podcast um by uh John August and Craig Mason which uh I don't write scripts but the lessons that they talk about and the ideas and experiences and insights they share for any writer is just absolutely invaluable and just their their style the great the the way the show is done everything about that the minute I see that's out I just listen to it immediately so I can't recommend it they're universally awesome that sounds great he he wrote Charlie's Angels what is not to Love Char Angels Big Fish yeah I don't know Charlie Ang nines so many great movies and Craig did uh all the hangover movies I mean just so much so much good stuff there anyway so check all that out once you're on iTunes please leave a review please leave a rating if you want to see the video version of the show youtube.com/ imor video and we'll be back next week with yet more podcasty stuff cool thanks guys thanks Ren bye everybody bye bye have fun\n"