Android One and Lollipop Rants _ The Friday Debate Podcast 003

**The Future of Android One: A Discussion**

In this week's Friday debate podcast, we're discussing the future of Android One, Google's initiative to provide affordable smartphones to developing countries. We're joined by our usual group of experts, and they've got high hopes for the program. However, they also have some concerns about its marketing and distribution strategy.

One of the main questions on everyone's mind is whether using Lollipop as one of its main marketing strategies was justified. Some argue that it was a great move, while others are more skeptical. Our hosts discuss how waiting for the proper 5.1 update was a good decision, especially when considering the performance issues that came with upgrading from KitKat to Lollipop.

One of our guests mentions that having a Nexus 7 and waiting for the Lollipop update has improved its performance, but changing apps is still a terrible experience. This highlights the challenges of upgrading an OS and the importance of optimizing it for various devices. Our hosts agree that Android One needs to loop back to the beginning and get its marketing and distribution figured out if it wants to succeed.

The main goal of Android One is to provide affordable smartphones to people who can't afford other Android devices. Google's initiative has the potential to make a significant impact on developing countries, where access to mobile technology is limited. However, for this to happen, Google needs to be at the forefront of providing these smartphones.

Our guests discuss how having Lollipop as one of its main marketing strategies might not have been the best decision. They explore various reasons why this might be the case, including performance issues and the fact that it's primarily optimized for Android 5.1. However, they also point out that if it can work well on low-end devices like the Nexus 7, then it should work well on other devices as well.

One of our hosts mentions that having a Tegra 3 processor in a device would prevent it from running properly with Lollipop. This highlights the importance of optimization for different hardware configurations. Our guests also discuss how Android One's marketing strategy might be improved if it focused more on its features and benefits rather than just the brand name.

Overall, our discussion of Android One's future highlights the challenges and opportunities that come with this initiative. While there are concerns about its marketing and distribution strategy, our guests remain optimistic about its potential to make a significant impact in developing countries. With careful planning and optimization, Android One could become a successful platform for providing affordable smartphones to people around the world.

**The Friday Debate Podcast**

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In the background, we're having a little chat about our upcoming guests. Next week's episode promises to be an exciting one, with one or two special guests from the Android Authority team joining us to discuss various Android-related topics. We'll also have more podcasts ready for you to listen to, so make sure to stay tuned and follow us on all our social media channels.

**A Special Thank You**

We'd like to thank our hosts for another great episode of the Friday debate podcast. As always, we appreciate their expertise and insights on various Android-related topics. We also want to express our gratitude to all our listeners and viewers who tune in every week to hear us discuss the latest news and trends in the world of Android.

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"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhello everybody and welcome to the Friday debate podcast episode number three discussing topics in Android every single week I am of course your host Joshua varara what's going on everybody and uh I'm joined by our usual panel we have Andrew grud who is also the architect of the Friday debate every single week on androidauthority.com we also have writer Jonathan Feist here and our app guy on YouTube Joseph Hindi how's it going everybody hello Internet hello good nice uh as always we get together every single week and talk about a particular topic one that we post on Android authority.com on which a lot of our writers uh give their thoughts upon and uh we made it into a podcast form so we hope you guys have been enjoying the podcast thus far we are now in our third episode officially uh since we did a pilot over in um at CES uh but last week uh we weren't able to uh record uh because well uh not the least reasons where I was in China covering a uh media tour with Huawei which turned out to be a pretty good time uh and you can see those videos obviously I did some very nice Vlog Style videos so you can kind of see our experience rather than just you know watch some canned videos um they were uh they really did a a great job of just sort of bringing us out and we got to see their campus so thanks to Huawei out there but also it was Super Bowl Sunday on Sunday and even though we planned on postponing it until then unfortunately we all opted for the bad food and watching the game I wanted to to pop this question out there did your guys' team win I watch hockey oh okay so I mean did anybody watch any of you I watched I I I wasn't really rooting for any particular team I just think it's fun to watch Super Bowl oh okay so you guys didn't really put down like any bets or anything like I knew a couple people who won like like 500 bucks in a pool or something it was amazing no I ridiculous I just moved to to Portland Oregon and you know Seattle is kind of our rival especially when it comes to the college leagues and NFL of course is a different story that they have the big league team in Seattle so that they're kind of my team and so yes my team lost yeah I I feel the exact same way that we we don't have to get into it but I do have to just sort of echo everyone else's frustration over what that last play was I was like oh my God that was the worst call in history well not history but but in any case uh I just wanted to do a little bit of housekeeping and checking with everybody of course you can find our podcast all over the web so if you are on YouTube right now watching where we put it up for your guys' courtesy for your ears um what you can also do is find us on all the different podcast channels you can find us on iTunes on Stitcher um I'm very close to finalizing the uh SoundCloud Channel but of course you can use the podcast aggregation applications if you want to do it that way which is one of the best ways to listen to the Friday debay podcast actually so why don't we go ahead and just jump into this week's topic we're talking about Android roid 1 and if you don't know what that is we'll go ahead and give you a brief primer on it but here is our long form version of the Friday debate topic that we put up on our site and we're talking about right now part of the alert of Android 1 was that it would bring faster almost Nexus like updates to lower end phones promising an affordable offering that would still provide a decent Android experience with the slow update to lollipop though and the fact that the sales numbers are reportedly not all that high is Android 1 delivering on that promise can Android 1 be a success or with so many other affordable devices is it a largely unnecessary program so we're going to be discussing Android 1 its implications on the market because they're supposed to be low-end phones um but uh the first thing I wanted to pose to everybody is um we're all obviously uh familiar with Android 1 what it was supposed to be able to do um but for just a a brief primer about where it was supposed to be going and the reason why maybe us here in the west like in the US uh don't really know too much about it um how about uh gushy why don't you give us sort of your brief overview of Android 1 okay so Android 1 was never really meant for the West markets it was meant as a way to bring uh cheap phones to the next you know a billion or whatever five billion whatever they quote people and uh it was it wasn't so much about cheap phones it was about creating competitively priced devices that had faster updates I mean you have these low-end phones in India China you know throughout Asia basically and Africa as well anyway uh they tend to be stuck with the same version of Android for their entire life cycle and so the idea was to create something that was maintained by Google Google would provide the updates and it would create uh basically we get phones that had that Nexus like experience stock Android and we wouldn't be stuck with these old versions so it would provide the best experience possible instead of people getting you know something that basically never changes yeah definitely and uh the the whole idea that I mean updates are always a hot button top for anybody that uses an Android device and I think right right before our podcast we had a little bit of a pre-show thing going on we were talking about um if all of our devices are on lollipop at this point obviously we're using um anywhere between mid to highend uh phones but just putting this out there like let's say feisty the devices that you use um are you on lollipop on the vast majority of them at least no not at all the majority are still Jelly Bean 442 oh wow Jelly Bean okay well remember he uses a lot of low-end devices I say jelly bean I'm sorry Kat I'm not even paying attention here sorry I was about to say everyone raised their eyebrows and like wait a minute you uh you have a Moto G though right so your Moto G should be on Lolly yes the Moto G is up to date and of course that right now is my daily driver but the remainder remainder of the phones are running older OS okay which arguably isn't a bad thing considering all the bugs for lollipop but that's a conversation for another podcast yeah yeah basically how about you Joe um what are you rocking and are they all on lollipop um I have uh four devices currently including my my watch and yeah all of my devices are running lollipop but that's only because I mean you know I have a Nexus and a Nvidia Shield tablet which got official updates but uh my Note 3 is rooted so I got you know I'm I'm running a I think it's a note 4 Port right now and it's it's actually pretty terrible but it's functional so I'm going to keep it yeah see so that's the whole idea behind making something that an ecosystem I should say like Android one where you will be getting those those updates um people all around the world uh supposedly will be able to get their their hands on the true Android experience no matter what the price bracket might be uh but you know like gry said we're not really looking at Android 1 as a real uh competitor to like the super low-end devices that are super affordable let's put it that way um but you know I look through some of the Android 1 devices that are available and there there are quite a few of them um gry correct me if I'm wrong but the uh the the actually one of the main marketing points of Android 1 was that its devices were going to provide features that actually a lot of high end phones don't have like dual SIM uh micro SD card slot um and you know various uh oh like quad core processing even um though that's pretty much ubiquitous at this point but um I guess my question that I'm going to ask is is Android 1 a program that is made to be successful or is it really just Google sort of trying to extend their reach even farther um on my end of things like uh I I think it is I think it's supposed to be that thing where you know Google's extending their reach um the problem is that I know that it's not available in a lot of places yet uh everywhere I keep reading you know it's it's set to launch in these other places sometime soon but really it's like uh last time I checked it's only available in you know in a couple of countries uh like India and I think there's one or two more um uh there's in India Bangladesh Nepal Sri Lanka Indonesia and I think one of the models launched or maybe two in the UK that's about it are are they actually available there because or are they set to launch there think so well uh Indonesia is still launching um but the others I think all have it I believe I don't quote me on that 100% but I believe well I know that one of the main markets that it was supposed to come out in was like say India and yeah and India does have I think they only have like a couple though right exactly and um uh one of the reasons why we're talking about is because a recent story came out that Android 1 is supposed to come out in Indonesia very soon and on top of all of that you know the the other one the the the rumored not rumored but like the the small leak I should say is that these devices are the first ones to get an update to lollipop to 5.1 which was why Android 1 was aw thrust back into the into the Limelight a little bit because well everyone's kind of following the lollipop train right now oh yeah but um this is the thing though uh the sales numbers haven't really been all that great uh what is it I I'm questioning uh it's not necessarily a question for the panel but I'm just sort of questioning whether or not Google knew what the strategy was supposed to be for Android 1 um and you know in especially in developing markets developing countries where you should be able to sort of get a really big foot in the door with affordable phones if they're not selling very well could that possibly be because we have enough other phones on the market that are affordable anyway uh well you know like these things take time to you know to develop I mean I'm sure that you know Android 1 was something that was in development in Google's you know brain machine or whatever they're brainstorming it for a couple of years and you know when you look at 2013 you know there weren't a lot of super cheap smartphones I think like what the Moto X uh hadn't come out yet you know the Moto G hadn't come out yet there wasn't a whole lot going on in the you know in the mid-range and low range phones you know outside of having phones that had super old operating systems that never got updated so like hey let's do this thing Android one and then by the time they came out with it now we have the Moto X the OnePlus One the Moto G you know and all these other super affordable phones essentially everybody beat Google to the punch here and I think that's it's not the whole reason obviously uh but I think that at least a little bit part of it is that you know they're already you know lowcost phones that are getting updates pretty frequently and you know so what's the point of having Android one if these other phones exist well I mean the the question that comes to mind um how low is low enough then when it comes to the price because we're talking about phones like the you mentioned the OnePlus One the MotoX even the Moto G let's put the Moto G in that mix uh which are still let's say at best sub $200 phones um if price really does matter to people let's say in developing markets then oh yeah you know what I mean like agress go ahead well you know it's we have to realize to us it's like we don't see a lot like if we look at a phone we're like oh that's 150 that's 200 that's 250 to us that's they're all pretty close to the same price but you got to realize that some of these countries are only making like 80 or 90 bucks a month you know and so when you're making that little bit of money and uh obviously I might be wrong on their number but I've heard that quoted before for certain parts of Asia um anyway when you're making you know sub $100 a month you bet you're you bet you're you know butt at uh you know I'm trying not to cuss uh $55 you know there's phones that go as low as $55 $55 to $100 doesn't seem like a big deal to us but they are for them you know that's a huge deal and I could understand that if I was only you know and so I think to to people in the western markets we like oh there's not a huge difference between you know a phone that's 180 and a phone that's 200 but if you were making a lot less I think that $20 would make a huge difference to you you know yeah I do I do agree with that and you know it's this is this is a more this is a particular um system that Android that sorry not Android that Google put out Android one that might might kind of go over the heads of a lot of people in the west which is kind of the reason why I was excited to talk about it um uh feisty uh do you like your thoughts on Android one is there do you think that there's a reason why Android 1 is not really catching on is it really just a Time game or did and did Google get get swooped on the whole idea of making um uh really affordable phones uh well exactly what you say is part of it no doubt by all means there's other phones out there other phone makers that are doing the same kind of thing uh now I've never had the chance to touch one of these phones I wonder if in this case inexpensive means cheap and certainly that's a debate for any phone from any maker but uh you know that's that's one of my concerns where you know if they're all so to speak cheap devices then maybe that $20 makes that huge difference um but what I really think it comes down to is availability uh even here in the Western Market you know when the Nexus line of devices started launching you really couldn't you couldn't go into the Verizon the at start and pick out a Nexus device you had to know what you're were looking for go to the Google Play Store if Android 1 was in every store at every carrier I think it might be you know a little bit better off uh and now that that brings you to another idea um I did think about that that maybe the e-commerce Channel for Android 1 might be what might be hindering it because um now far be it for me to say that I know how carriers operate in places like Indonesia or India but I would imagine having been to um you know that side of the world at least that you know this that the smartphone has become rather ubiquitous and uh there's so much choice in the market now that it does come down to availability I do agree with you on that but if an Android One phone is supposed to be let's say cuz I'm looking at the website right now now one one one comment I do want to make is that the Android one website android.com one uh if the program is supposed to be geared towards developing countries the website sure doesn't make it look like it's supposed to be I don't know if you guys have ever looked at the website but it's it's incredibly colorful and there there are all these uh there all these uh pictures on the website that show people using these particular phones and places where you know you could probably afford something more and u I don't know just kind of irked me a little bit but I will say this the first time that the the the day that Android one was announced obviously it was at google.io this past uh June um I was super excited for it I thought that it was a great way of consolidating yeah um I I thought it was a great way of consolidating what's supposed to be a market that everyone in the world it's almost like the internet now you know the internet is almost like a a right for people to have it's becoming that ubiquitous and if smartphones are going to be the main way that people use it which it is in places in the East and this is a great way to have an entry point for it but it's a little disheartening to hear that it's not really going in that route um gushy when you when it was uh when it was announced uh what were you looking forward to in terms of Android 1 did you really think it was going to live up to his promise I really did and uh I felt that uh the idea was great um I still feel the idea is great and I don't think it's dead I think we're talking about like it's dead and I don't think it is um the problem is that uh there was big Ambitions with the idea of bringing it but it hasn't lived up to it I think there's a few reasons that like we haven't touched on for one thing um now I'm just speaking from the few I've seen but let's take uh for instance uh in India there's the uh carbon Sparkle 5 I think it's called and the Micromax uh canvas A1 and then there's a spice dream I can't remember exactly what it is anyway there's I remember the spice one yeah there's three phones there that I just mentioned they all have 4.5 displays with 854x480 resolution they all have the same exact 1.3 GHz quad core mediatech chip they all have 1 gab of ram they all have the same storage everything is the exact same they're boring um even the Aesthetics are pretty much right on with one another and so hell if I have three devices that look the same and then I have something like a yomi or I have a you know even the micro Maxes that are not from this line yeah I'm going to go with something else cuz he's a boring you know it's stock Android and I'm a stock Android Advocate but uh you know there's nothing that defines these phones is separate other than the brand so if you're a fan of carbon or you're a fan of Micromax but that's about it you know there's no difference and I think that's part of the failing is that I don't think the Android one phones we've seen are worth getting excited about for customers and then the fact that lollipop took so long doesn't help because that's supposed to be the big draw is that hey these are similar price to what you can get here but they also have the newest version of Android well no they don't cuz Android lollipop is now several months old and it's not here you know and so I feel like I still think that Android one is a it's a great concept I just feel like we have they've run into some hiccups but I do believe Google can still turn it around and I think Android 1 can still be a big program do you think can I disagree with you just a little bit sure by all means perfect um now concept I like it but I don't think it's dead on U now my how I remember Google IO was was basically they were on stage they said we're going to give the manufacturers a blueprint for a device M which is pretty much why we have the exact same devices for each one because they're just following Google's blueprint now that being said that that says to me that Google's blueprint Google's overall overview of this project is a little bit off I like it and I and I think it can go places but right now I think it's a little bit off and I don't I don't disagree with you actually I said that I think there's potential and I still do but yeah uh definitely now that said they gave a blueprint but they gave specifics they said hey you can use this you can use that it's not like you have to use the exact same chip they gave a range that they wanted to get within a price range but everyone just decided to do the same cookie cutter approach and so that's not totally Google's fault but yeah I think that the the program was a little Limited in the way it was approached and uh I have a theory I could be totally wrong but I I think that the fact that we're seeing 5.1 arrive on uh you know on Android one speaks to the fact that and even like I Feist I know you mentioned you know elsewhere when we've had conversations and stuff uh anyway uh you've mentioned that uh you felt that lollipops a little bit you know sluggish let's put it that way um and I think that that was part of the reason is I think that uh in its current form with its bugs and with everything that they just felt it couldn't be on there and so they needed to make some changes and I think that's why we're seeing 5.1 launch with Android 1 is that it's hopefully address some of those issues like I said that's just speculating but you know adding to that speculation I wonder if 5.1 is sadly an offshoot a forking of Android where 5.0.2 and that stream will continue on for you know the bigger the flagship devices and the 5.1 will go to the lower end or slower lower you know smaller Hardware devices there's already talk about testing of uh the 5.1 update on Nexus so I don't think that's the case I don't think Google would do that anymore you know they did that back in the day with like honeycomb but I think we're past that honeycomb I hope so has anyone used honeycomb that yeah it was a it was interesting I still have a functioning Logitech Review that runs honeycomb wa Logitech Review holy crap yeah yeah well I mean we we we mentioned honeycomb and you know we can you know immediately what comes to mind are the different devices that used to rock that kind of stuff I mean I'm on I'm on a Android like 1.6 right now using the G1 for my flashback series um I I don't know I thought that lollipop knowing that it's supposed to be compatible with let's say lower-end devices supposed to supposed to I maybe it was wishful thinking for me to think that that I could easily put that on a classic Android phone no I I'm using phone right now that could be considered what today's Android one phones are and it still has the Android market like I can't I can't even use the freaking play store to get the essential applications that I need what if uh you know Nostalgia is is not a very big thing in the tech world if you you know it's always about The Cutting Edge it's not really about Nostalgia and going back to your roots um but you know those that that's that's one of the uh caveats I have when it comes to lollipop is that you know it probably should have had it available for if there were versions of it that would work on any device pretty much then you know maybe make that make that reach like just so far that even classic phones could be used um so we're we're mentioning a lot here um that lollipop has some issues and maybe that's something that we will actually dive into in a little bit here I actually actually think I want to uh sort of hash that out I want to hear what your guys' thoughts are on that but I a thought came to mind could it be that these companies are creating the cookie cutter devices for Android 1 or even the the really cheap ones that they're making uh that are not part of Android 1 could it be that they're making the cookie cutter versions and just sort of they're they're sort of focusing on the bottom line because there's probably not a huge amount of profit to be had in a phone that let's say is only about $100 um am I am I out of line by saying that no I mean there they are in fact businesses and do in fact care about the bottom line so I mean you're probably right on there at least to an extent but you know I'm sure that there's probably something that's been worked out between you know these companies and Google where it's like you guys build the hardware you know we'll do the software and you know if something goes wrong you know I I don't think that Google's like paying these you know these companies for every phone that they make but you know I'm sure that there's something there to you know to to help encourage them to do to continue to do stuff like this um yeah no I think the biggest problem like feisty said earlier was uh is distribution really I mean you just you can't find the these things anywhere except for What on the internet right like these aren't being sold in stores and in carrier stores and stuff like that yeah I don't believe so but I don't know much about that aspect to be honest well the the thing is I've spoken to a lot of uh of Indian people who you know who use Android and uh a lot of them don't have things like credit cards and can't make purchases online and uh because that they use that and this is a whole different conversation but I'm going to bring it up for just a moment but that's that's the reason that they give for pirating applications like uh when the Monument Valley numbers came out they were like oh yeah no we pirated the out of this because we don't have credit cards to pay for it you know we we're not allowed to buy it so you know but we still want to play anyway so you know a part of me thinks like you know if the main way of distribution is online and you know a a lot of people in that in those countries don't have credit cards and don't have debit cards and you know don't have the internet then how are they supposed to order these damn things yeah you know it's an incredible point and like I mentioned earlier a lot of the people in let's say um Eastern developing countries they access to the internet is primarily through a smartphone so if you already own a smartphone to get to the internet how are you going to get in why would you get Android 1 because you you pretty much got your foot in the door already um and uh you know obviously there's going to be a huge socioeconomic discussion that could be had when it comes to this which is which is why I brought up the fact that the Android one website looks like I mean come on there's this there's this uh picture of this Asian dude walking through what looks like a farmers market uh you know and he's he's dressed to the nines he looks like a you know A well-dressed person and right next to it is a dude and like what I can only say is like a Ralph Lauren po shirt I'm like what is going on here like I think that one of the failures of Android 1 is the fact that it doesn't necessarily realize that you can't really use money to Market something that's supposed to help people who have no money and you know if this is supposed to be some sort of a Grassroots um well maybe not Grassroots cuz we're talking about Google here but um if this is supposed to be something that um developing countries are supposed to take advantage of it doesn't really seem like it from from the advertisements from the marketing not not not not in the slightest um you know it would be a really great idea and I can't remember which we talked about it on this podcast a couple of weeks ago or a few weeks ago maybe but um what was those only weeks we had yeah oh yeah mopa but uh who was the company that had the uh like the the refrigerator trucks full of technology and they're driving around and selling it to people uh that's uh something that uh they're getting ready to do with uh they haven't done it yet but they're getting ready to do that with uh um Project Ara that's the kind of stuff they need to be doing with Android one they need to be you know putting an ice cream truck full of Android 1 devices and literally drive it up and down the street and try to sell it to people like Ice Cream cuz you know like Josh said it's a you know it's supposed to be a Grassroots movement and how you going to get to a Grassroots movement if they don't have the internet yet you know you have to bring it to them yeah in order for them to buy it and you know I mean the people that already have credit cards and already have enough money to buy a smartphone and have the internet I mean those people are going to go with the extra hundred bucks and and get something a little bit better than this I mean let's face it that's what they're doing already yeah exactly and you got to go to the people you know I I have this image in my head of Google basically saying okay we created this like you guys said feisty and gushy a blueprint for you guys to create these phones go have at it and then they wash their hands of the whole thing um that's you know it's almost it's almost upsetting me just a little bit because I I love the democratization of information of the internet and I love that you know at at at Google IO I was drinking the Koolaid I thought oh man Google is not the evil company that sometimes we say they are they really are trying to help people and now sorry exactly right then we sometimes say that I'm sorry I cracked me up like I to to to think that um this was a focus this was actually a pretty substantial part of google.io um to think that this was a big part of it and that it had a focus it just kind of irks me a little bit that um first of all the way that they're presenting it if this is going to be the main way of finding it android.com one I'm not really convinced um and even then like we're saying the sales seem to be be uh in in the down portion right now and that's just a little bit saddening I guess to me but I'm I'm talking existentially here I'm not fuus I've been uh I've been sitting here uh trying to do some Google searching it does look like they have done some relationships with uh the carriers in India and stuff so there's a little um it's primarily online from what I can see like flip cart and you know Amazon and stuff but uh they do have some carrier relationship so they've tried to do it a little but you know it's a lot it's a different landscape I don't know I don't feel like Google's necessarily let us let let down the program I just feel it's been a rough to a rough start I'm not giving up on it yet I think it still has a lot of potential and Google sometimes is that way it takes them a little while to get into their group with stuff you know so I don't think it's necessarily Down and Out by any means yet yeah know I mean Google's always about these long form things you guys remember uh you know Google play music you know it started out it wasn't really all that great you just upload some songs and stream them and now you can go online buy a bunch of songs and have them not stream because it's freaking broken still so you know but they're still working on it and that's the important thing yeah um I suppose on some level though it's just that that's the way Google operates right we we have we are all basically beta testers I say you're perpetually in beta stage yep that's how all their products are For Better or Worse you know I you know in some ways I don't mind that but you know with a program like this yeah I I agree with you it's a little a little upsetting to think that it had the potential to be a big deal but then again you're seeing all these other companies that are still producing good handsets so I think that the goal is still being reached even if Android one's not the one doing it you know yeah so who do you guys think is responsible for making this a success is this Google's Project do they own this or is it up to the manufacturers or they just have a guideline to follow I think it's supposed to be pretty 5050 was the idea but uh well we know you say manufacturers and Google but we also have carriers involved oh yeah and that always makes things more complicated yes and retailers distribution I mean yeah well I mean the uh there oh sorry go ahead I was say there's a lot there to consider Logistics there's so many channels to go through you know and and I suppose you know giving them the benefit of the doubt giving a multi-billion dollar company the benefit of the doubt uh they can only market so much um I mean below those P those ridiculous pictures I was talking about earlier um are you know broken apart versions of an example of an Android One phone that has all of these features that supposedly are going to be really great for people who can afford it or or the fact that it should be affordable for a lot of people uh so looking at some of these other devices that are also affordable now obviously we did mention already earlier that how low is low enough uh obviously for us something like that's $200 or even the one plus1 which is $349 uh constitutes affordable to us but if Android 1 is having here front and rear cameras quadcore processor micro SD card all day battery well okay everyone says that but yeah uh dual SIM cards well what would constitute an affordable phone to you is it let's look at this from another perspective what if Android 1 is a way of telling people that you don't have to compromise for the features that should become standard for a phone uh feisty you're using a Moto G um would you say the Moto G is the bare minimum when it comes to what could be an affordable phone that has the features you want sort of yes um now I've got my gripes with this phone and uh let's start off with the processor I mean this Snapdragon 400 you know I spent 200 to get this Google Play edition version and it's getting a Snapdragon 400 device right now could be done for $30 out there U so I don't know I I'm not sure where the processor Market is at right now there's no to me there's no solid successor uh there's the Snapdragon 410 but you know we're not really seeing it out there yet um so I'm not sure I think really comes down to that where anything below a Snapdragon 400 you know the Snapdragon 200 devices and whatnot oh dear I just I don't think they have enough juice uh even now this Moto G it it's recently updated to 5.0.2 and I notice at the Slowdown I am now feeling that the 400 is not strong enough Snapdragon 400 we've seen in a few devices I'm looking I I'm doing my own little research on the side just to just to sort of bolster this um it look looks to me here that Android one phones from the various Partnerships that they have primarily use mediatech processors uh yeah there's uh there's been talks about using uh like there's Partnerships with Qualcomm it just hasn't happened yet uh I think we're going to see the second generation Android one phones are going to be a lot different than the first gen I think getting it out there they started with pretty base phones and I'm hoping that the second gen will really see what the program's made of would they call that Android 2 I think it'll just still be Android one but it's it's Google they're going to call it Android 1.1 yep coming soon now I do have to I do have to say like you uh we mentioning were mentioning a bare minimum in specs and uh the Snapdragon 400 on Kit Kat does great uh lollipop is supposed to be even better for that for lower end and so I really do sincerely think bugs are in the way and I think that 5.1 and later updates will fix that but anyway talking about Snapdragon 400 um now fece says you know almost $200 but is that the bare minimum for a Snapdragon 400 device absolutely not um for instance yomi's uh what how do they pronounce it is it redmi or redeem redmi is that the the line yeah usually it's me if it's Mi yeah so the redmi 1s for for example is uh the equivalent of $100 in India um and it has a Snapdragon 400 in it it has one gab of ram it has an 8 G it has an 8 megapixel camera you know it has a I believe it has has 8 gbt of storage let me see um I'm going to look it up uh yeah 8 gabt of storage you know and so and it's 100 bucks and so there's companies that can do it that can produce a high-end device and I think that's probably speaks to why Android one isn't doing well is they're selling it a mediatech device when yai and stuff is able to produce device with a Snapdragon 400 for the same price I mean it's kind of a no-brainer I'm going to go with the yummy you know yeah and speaking from experience mediatech processors are they're not they're not terrible by any means but they just don't kind of hold a candle to snapdragons and even then if we're talking yeah if we're talking about entry-level mediatech phones uh processors I should say oh my goodness like who's to know exactly what kind of experience you're going to get on that now I mean with with the uh sorry not to cut in but with like the I do want to say with the redmi like the redmi 1s you are getting Jelly Bean and that was supposed to be the point of Android one is you're getting the newest version whereas with uh well obviously it's running the MIUI or whatever they call it but uh it's based on Jelly Bean and so you're not getting the newest version of Android and that was the point of Android one but to me if I was if I was low on money and I was in one of these countries and you gave me two phones that were $100 one had a crappy not to be mean but a crappy mediate Tech processor but it had Kit Kat and it was about ready to upgrade a lollipop and the other has Jelly Bean but it is running a faster processor it's more optimized it has a better camera you know what I'm not I'm not GNA be Petty about the Android version I'm GNA go with the device that gives me more power for the money you know well I love that you said that because I I expected our conversation to move into you know the the scales you know which one are you going to pick if you had an Android One phone or something else that had a little bit more to offer uh feisty what would that be for you are you a software Monger in the sense that you really want the latest one or will the actual specs um let's say really sway you in the other direction not to say that I don't want the latest OS but I definitely look at the hardware before the the software uh now software again plays a part that it always should uh but I mean Hardware theoretically can be upgraded with new software uh these devices it's not like an old PC where you can rip it out put in new Ram you get what you pay for and and that's it there's no upgrading these phones so Hardware is always what I look at enter Project Ara well yes not too our podcast will always go full circle somehow how about you Joe um goodness gracious this is such a complicated answer um because you know we were talking about the minimum specs a minute ago and you know everyone was like oh yeah you know I can deal with you know 1 gigabyte of RAM and and Snapdragon 400 I'm looking at my current apps usage and I just flashed this ROM today right so I just reinstalled everything and all that it's totally clean install and I'm using 715 megabytes of ram just for apps that's not including my system uh with including the system it's 1.2 GB so a 1 gbyte phone with the apps that I run is like impossible for me I would never be able to use it because everything would be slowing down because of lack of ram so like you know for me personally like my minimum is 2 gabes and you know if I'm looking at something that's you know lots and lots of updates or you know Hardware I'm going Hardware um because Hardware can always you know like uh feisty said you can always upgrade Hardware with better software eventually as long as you buy it from a company that doesn't suck HTC just kidding just kidding just kidding I love it I'm buying an HTC 1m9 I'm allowed to to say mean things right now but um but you know like I it's it's a complicated subject I I don't really have my thoughts totally in line yet for this one so uh I'm going to shut up now well I mean that's that's the thing this is the reason why um at least maybe gushy and I were hoping that Android 1 would be able to consolidate these issues and it doesn't seem like that it would it so far has been able to who knows what would happen two years down the road if all of these companies who are always looking for the bottom line will actually allow themselves to go below that line and say okay let's make a phone that is not only got the bare minimums um and we mean bare minimums like 2 gab of ram like Joe was saying uh but we're also going to make it affordable it seemed up until Android one happened and maybe even until now if we're talking about Android one not necessarily succeeding it was sort of a pipe dream uh and for people in developing countries I mean I'm Filipino and there are I have so many family members and people that I know in the Philippines who uh are stuck with particular types of phones and you know even my father who goes back to the Philippines every now and then um he brings back phones he pretty much brings back my hand-me-downs to give to people in the Philippines so they can have a more upgraded experience because otherwise they wouldn't have anything um the the the Philippines is still called the texting capital of the world because that's what everyone can do not everyone has a smartphone not everyone can get on WhatsApp or whatever the hot uh messaging app is nowadays but you know that's that's why this this topic sort of hits home for me is because I want to see the democratization and the overall availability of a program like this because I I I know firsthand um you know from from personal experience what it can be like for people who have that trouble to get a phone like this um so owing owing it to maybe a little bit of greed from some companies or maybe Google's reach is not as far as we thought you know the Android 1 program is something that we have to still wait and see where it's going to go um I wanted to uh actually gushy I wanted to can I put you on the spot right now a little bit I guess we'll see how it goes we I think mostly from you during our conversation now we've heard quite a few uh a little bit of shade against lollipop like can can we get a small gushy rant on like what's wrong with lollipop because oh um well grab a seat kids I don't want to be I mean I oh sorry I really honestly I was say I really honestly thought you were about to do a oh hell no but it sound like about to go for I'm just trying to kind of gather my thoughts here I mean I have lollipop um on my Nexus 5 uh and on my Nexus 7 and on my Nexus 4 and on my Nexus 10 I have a lot of nexist anyway I have it um and I'm considering going back to Kit Kat whoa um I think lollipop has a lot of potential people are probably getting ready to bring out their pitchforks right now they're going to be listening to this um I'm a Google fan I think lollipop has a lot of potential I just think it's very B it it's very buggy um whether or not that's Justified since it's such a big jump is probably another conversation uh but but uh ultimately it's just that I kind of feel like with the fact that we this time around had a testing phase where we were able to try out the phone and Report our bugs you know I I downloaded it right away on my Nexus 5 you know what back before it was what it was just you know Android L um I felt like we were going to get a a version of Android that was pretty stable from the get-go and it hasn't been um the battery life promises on my device at least hasn't been what it's supposed to be be uh I run into a lot of random glitches and shutdowns and I'm not going to say that I represent everyone and you might have the lollipop device right now and be like I've had no problems at all and that's fine just my own personal experience I just feel like there was a lot of bugs there's been battery bugs battery draining bugs there's been Wi-Fi bugs there's been all sorts of and it just feels like we should have had these figured out before now um eventually when it gets all solved in Android 5 point whatever five .1 whatever is there I'll probably be very happy with lollipop I like material design um it's a big change it's bright it's colorful I'm cool with it uh you know and there's a lot of good changes with lollipop but at the same time if you are still on kitcat don't necessarily be in a rush to get lollipop eventually it's going to be awesome but don't be like I wish I had lollipop because you may not necessarily be thrilled with what you get I mean there's still a lot that's not there I think lollipop has a lot of potential but it's not polished to where I want it to be um and yeah I know there's people are probably mad at me night now for saying it but um personally I just feel like lollipop has a lot of potential but it hasn't all reached it and what do you guys think I mean do you feel like lollipop is everything that's cracked up to be right now I I I have full confidence before I hand it over I have full confidence Google will get it there I I I absolutely have confidence that Google will get it there um I don't think lollipop will be a disaster it's not going to be the windows8 of uh of the anth hey windows I like was actually fairly stable every hates Android 8 I mean Windows 8 Android in the future now no every everyone hates Windows 8 um except for a small subsection of people yeah I had no problem with it either Joe but I don't think lollipop will remembered it's a bad version is what I'm saying but right now it's not quite there in my opinion what do you guys think is Lollipop what you think it should be right now um I think the L no first of all you're absolutely right lollipop is buggy as all hell like I have three devices with lollipop and the one that's rooted the one with the broken warranty running a a a a ROM from a phone that was released a year later is the most stable device in my in my possession right now like you know my uh Nvidia Shield tablet's a great device but it has audio bugs that keep you know like you'll be listening something you'll be like oh hello there and then keep going uh my Nexus 5 uh sometimes connects to my Wi-Fi and sometimes it doesn't it's really up to it uh sometimes I sweet talk it a little bit like oh come on baby please just for a little bit I really need to download this app to test it I'll buy you some flowers and stuff I never buy it flowers which is probably why it's mad at me but um all of our listeners have a very colorful idea of what Joe does with his phone yeah you don't want to know it gets crazy i i i w i woo them I woo them to try to get them to work and they don't work sometimes and it's you know it I like uh gushy I've considered going back to KitKat on a number of occasions but given the nature of my work um I pretty much got to stay with the with the latest because that's what people want to see but no um it it speaks to it oh thanks a lot gushy yeah thanks for that that chat there totally derailed me garlic bread and phones my two favorite things anyways um it we were talking about it earlier the the always in beta thing that pretty much everybody who's a Google fan goes through you know everything is always in beta all the time you know and we see that effect on more than just Android you know you have a Chrome browser that eats up a bunch of ram you know you have Google play music which doesn't stream sometimes and now it's getting to the point where they're so rapid fire with these releases every single year with Android that I think it's just starting to catch up to them a little bit you know they're it's getting harder and harder for them to rebase and redo all of this stuff and and come out with an operating system that has no bugs cuz you know you look at Windows 10 when did Windows 8 come out like 2 3 years ago something like that yeah yeah and Windows 10 has even come out till next that's four years four years that Windows has to work out the bugs and get the and get this stuff in order before it gets released and you know Google is due out for another version of Android in freaking nine months like are you kidding me like it's it's starting to get to a point where I think you know Google and people in general just need to calm the held down a little bit and like you know the way I look at software is you know does it work great it's doing what it's supposed to do why are you in a rush to change that and uh it it just it feels like you know it's getting to a point where I don't even want to update anymore I feel like I'm being forced to update because otherwise I'm going to get left in the dust and uh that's that's my little micro rant on uh on Android and just upgrading too quickly I think that's the real problem is just they had 365 days to do it and they needed more time okay um I have a the reason why I love that you guys are going at length about this because I'm I'm going to bring it around in a second but I want to hear from feisty uh thoughts on lollipop and do you have any problems with it the way that it seems Joe and gushy have you know just some cave uh not caveats but some reservations about it I hate it I'm sorry hell no no no lollipops awesome eventually you know lollipop I have found a few minor things but uh you know in the UI in the front end I I would specifically call out this priority mode on the audio settings it's an awesome option but why is it the default it should be a backend thing that you can enable and then just allow allow us to hit the power or the volume rocker and turn the phone down and off but anyways that's being fixed in 5.1 by the way just just throwing that out there excellent too little too late you can always wait for Thursday my Android customization series and I cover these things and how to get by it uh no uh plug sorry honestly though uh the biggest thing for me I think is Art the Android runtime um the the thing that has been bothering me with the the phone specifically the Moto G uh I got a Nexus 9 here it's been great uh the Moto G I'm finding that its Ram utilization is a blessing and a curse all at the same time uh yes it's loading apps faster however I'm glad you guys brought up Windows it it's doing the old Microsoft thing where it's just slowly bleeding and sucking up more and more RAM once every week and a half or so I have to restart the device I hate having to restart my devices oh boohoo that few seconds just ends your world huh uh see it it goes beyond that I am a huge helium backup user or carbon whatever you if you remember it from the old days so when you hook this guy up to your PC you get everything all set up you can run your backups and restores I don't like to have to hook it up all the time again that 30 seconds right uh but every time I restart the device I have to reconfigure these things and and redo all this stuff and I don't I didn't have to before is my point I did not have to on KitKat I do have to now uh for some clarification do you mean like reboot the device or do you mean like total like wipe the device re factory reset just just reboot power toggle oh okay which again it's a minor thing but and that is my largest complaint with with lollipop so I I guess in the long run we're doing pretty good it's okay if that's the complaint okay uh well personally speaking I should give my answer on this actually too is um I really enjoy lollipop I think the the aesthetic uh upgrade was something that was very truly needed as much as I loved Hollow material design is Far and Beyond a better way of presenting Android uh and I'm also one of those people I I've said this a couple times before and I haven't gotten much reaction to it yet but I'm also one of those people who the best way for me to describe it is I'm a very tolerant technology user if there are some minor issues I'll say minor because it's my scope if there's some issues with the way that I'm using my version of Android I will find a way around it and and use up that like two hours to figure out you know is there a way for me to optimize it better or is there something I can do to alleviate it blah blah blah so really when I run into any like little things I called Joe a uh what did I call you that other time a stutter Nazi I think is what it was um that I that that kind of stuff doesn't really bother me where um if I see a little bit of a hiccup here and there the only real problem that I've had on my Moto X at least with uh with with lollipop is that the Calendar app which I don't use keeps force closing on me and YouTube force closes on me all the time by the way that's probably while while you're using it yes oh wow uhhuh a Google+ uh reboots my phone for me yeah that happened that happened to me too that happened to me too on lollipop mhm see I by far do not get these types of problems on the phones that I use and that the the the worst thing that's happened to me on lollipop is that the calendar just every now and then no matter what I'm doing cuz I almost never touch the Calendar app it will just pop up a little window that says sorry calendar has stopped or whatever it says on there that's really all I get um and I can't really begin to even tell you why that is the case with me but I actually have had a very great time with l that's kind of why I mentioned that I'm not representing everyone because there's a lot of people who probably have no of these none of these issues that Joe and myself have ran into and that's great and honestly if I reloaded lollipop who knows maybe I would maybe we better next time around you know sometimes sometimes just stuff happens while you're installing and just you know that that has happened to me before where I've reloaded and it's been just fine and I've thought about doing that to see you know and so you know I know with Windows and whatnot and any operating system sometimes just stuff goes wrong and sometimes just you know starting it all over again is enough you know reloading everything from scratch is enough and you know maybe I should consider that before I get too angry but like I've had a a volume issue where now my Nexus 5 isn't as high and who knows maybe my speaker is going out but it happened it coincided with the update to 5.0.2 so I'm guessing it's a software issue and I just haven't got around to reloading to see and so that was probably the the main reason why I'm annoyed about lollipop is that I actually still use the phone unlike most people to call people um like my like Mom like my mom and people like that you know family members and so yes I call my mom she lives three hours away I have to call her every once in a while see how she's doing um anyway and so when I'm making a call I can barely hear so now I have to use a Bluetooth you know Bluetooth headset and look like a dbag all the time running around with a Bluetooth and so which I hate Bluetooths and so I guess that's the reason why I'm annoyed by it it's just little stuff like that and like I said I I have nothing against lollipops design I have nothing against all the new apis I think lollipop is the biggest change the Android scene since Ice Cream Sandwich absolutely but you know then again when uh Ice Cream Sandwich showed up there was a lot of issues too wasn't there you know so maybe that's just growing pain yeah probably growing pains and whatnot I I I I agree with you though gushy if I had that problem where I had to use a Bluetooth headset all the time which I actually do use um I don't use like the one earpiece ones but I use like full-on headphones that have a microphone on them if I had to use that just to talk to somebody I'd probably be pissed off too so I don't blame you at all for that yeah and like I said may maybe my phone but I guess that would be a whole another issue if my Nexus 5 which is only it's not even I didn't get it right when it came out so it's only about a year old and so maybe my Nexus 5 you know speakers going out but if that's the issue then I'm even more annoyed yeah perhaps so okay well here's where I wanted to bring It full circle then there are problems with lollipop and not the least of which is the fact that it's not necessarily available for even lower end phones right now if we're talking about Android 1 but bringing it back to the whole Android one thing if these are problems we're having with lollipop on higher end phones is it Justified for Android 1 to use it as a main marketing strategy that's a really yeah that's a really good question um I don't know if it's not as if it's not as sustainable or even stable let's say stable operating system and and it's supposed to be their platform to create a democratization of smartphones is that really something they should be doing if these are the problems we're having in the high-end Market yeah um well like gushy said you know lollipop has a lot of potential and they they are going to fix all of these stupid little problems eventually um I got a feeling that it's going to be like jelly bean where it's going to be you know already 5.1 is already lollipop so we're probably going to have a 5.2 lollipop what did I did I drop out there for a sec no no I I thought I heard a noise over from gretchie also but okay oh yeah but uh yeah no I'm sorry go ahead bud I said I'm sorry maybe I dropped out just all of a sudden it went quiet oh no no we're fine guys uh but yeah go for it technical difficulties um I totally lost my train of thought guys I'm sorry potential potential with Android one and potential with lollipop that is more Google is going to fix these problems and when they do fix these problems it's going to be fine you know it'll work better I actually noticed uh I have a Nexus 7 2012 or I did I actually gave it to my roommates girlfriend's kid uh because I yeah that's right that that that's the new demographic for tablets that barely work kids uh oh man that sounded bad I'm sorry anyways um but I had Android 5.0.0 on it and it was garbage like the Nexus 720 12 was totally unusable period like I couldn't even open and read a comic book like flipping the pages took 2 seconds and it was just like I wanted to destroy the thing and then I put 5.0.2 on there and a lot of those problems were alleviated not all of them but enough of them to where I felt comfortable giving the tablet to a kid and I know that the kid would probably still be able to enjoy it even if I couldn't um it's just you know like gresy said it's going to be one of those things where it's going to take some time and they got to get all this fixed I just kind of wish you know like just year I'd like for Google to go you know what guys we're not doing an Android release this year we're going to do something really big next year we want to work on it make sure it's perfect no we need to changes now Joe quiet I I know need the changes now hash Nexus Warriors Google Google can't necessarily be hideo Kojima so I want 6 I want 6.0 where is it it's just it's getting to a point where you hear these things over and over again and it's just like yeah maybe it's just time to to stop with with the uh with the Nexus style yearly updates thing like I just don't think it's working anymore no you're bad I I I do think I I'm honestly those these are going to be my favorite moments on the podcast is when um you know one of the golden rules of podcasting is there should never be any dead air but I actually would I actually love it I I would love it every time I bring up a question and you guys are like I got to think about that for a second because I think that's those are the questions that we we hope to be able to to to to answer you know that we get answers to because that's the whole premise behind Android 1 is the fact that you'll get the latest uh the latest operating system um but we've heard from three people here or actually two gushy and Joe that you're thinking of going back to Kit Kat oh no he is no I'm sticking I'm sticking with it I just I've had those moments uh I'm going to probably reload lollipop on my Nexus 5 and see how it goes and if it's still okay but I think we'll get there uh I think 5.1 will be a solution uh hopefully uh but that brings me you know you're were talking about you know Android 1 and whether or not uh lollipop should be on there I think that's why it's not um you know I have to give Google credit there I think that uh they realized that it was going to be a subpar experience out of the box and so they waited and uh I think that's why it's launching in Indonesia with 5.1 and that's why Android 1 is going to be the first to see 5.1 is because I think that's they address the issues and I think that Android one will hopefully start becoming a bigger deal after this I think that you know and so I I have faith in Google I do I mean we probably sound like the most anti-google uh Android podcast ever but no I have absolute faith that Google will get it right and uh I think that they had the hindsight to realize you know if we throw lollipop on here and it's just and it's laggy and it's buggy on a low-end phone people are going to hate Android one so we're better off to take a little flak for waiting you know that's so funny if if it works on our our crappiest phones that has got to work on the on the better phone yeah well that's what I'm thinking is if they if they optimized it for Android one if they if Android 5.1 is is optimized for Android one uh then theoretically it should work fine for everything else because it's if it can work well on low end it should work well on everything else with a little bit of work unless it has a Tegra 3 in it because then it won't work at all trust me how about how about you feisty uh do you think that um you know owing to all the things we said about lollipop is it is it is it Justified that Android One is using it as one of its main marketing strategies uh before I answer that I I have to thank Joe for bringing up the Nexus 7 I'm sticking with mine man I I'm going to try and get this to work um now I I will say that the lollipop update on this old 2012 Nexus 7 um yes changing apps is a terrible experience but once I'm inside an app especially a heavier game uh the it is running much better uh so your was it your roommate's s or girlfriend's niece no good time with or something yeah so going to the question sorry um there is always that expectation when you upgrade an OS that it's going to be an improvement to to the system to your device um so certainly waiting and holding off for this you know proper 5.1 I say proper we'll see what happens uh was a great move that that's absolutely what they needed to do so Android 1 I'm with the other guys absolutely I have high hopes for the program I I think it has a future assuming they can looping back to the beginning get their marketing and distribution figured out okay uh yeah I I I have hopes for it I'm kind of on the fence after having been one of those people that was like oh my God my relatives in the Philippines are going to benefit from this so much and then you know we get this kind of news from it uh that's why I guess that's why I was a little bit impassioned during our discussion is because you know I really want to see stuff like this succeed I want to see I want to see developing countries develop you know and um you know if Google was going to be at the Forefront of providing smartphones to the masses who otherwise wouldn't be able to Pro to afford the experiences that we are blessed to have here in the west uh then I you know I'm all for it so I have High Hopes as well but I wanted to explore all the issues as to to why and if lollipop was one of them we were going to put it to task and I'm glad that we were able to do that so with that I think that we've uh thoroughly been able to go through this particular topic for this week's Friday debate stay tuned to Android Authority for all of the best coverage and for the podcast the Friday debate podcast of course and in the background we're having a little bit of a chat War um the uh uh the Friday debay podcast of course is available every Friday on all of the podcast networks and we are discussing Android topics every week you can follow all of us on social media all four of us uh the best place to find everybody is on Google+ using plus and of course our full names but you can also find us on various other uh sites as well like Twitter and if you want to find out what those sites are and get the links to all of our social media sites you can go to the Post at androidauthority.com on which we will have the Friday debate podcast ready for you to listen some Flavor in Your Ear uh make sure you stay tuned uh next week also uh where we're probably going to have maybe one or two different uh guests on there from the Android authority team so you can look forward to that but I want to give another thanks to our uh hosts for this week our usual group thank you again for being on uh as always keep in tuned to Android Authority for all the best get over to our YouTube channel and drop us some likes on those videos and subscribe to the channel if you haven't already also rate US on iTunes Stitcher all the different podcast networks because it also UPS our visibility on their particular websites uh all in all all I think that should do it for this week's podcast so we're going to try this every single week I want you guys to join me on this one uh Android authority Friday debate podcast discussing topics in Android every week we are of course your source for all things and Android are he doing that on purpose Joe no I'm just bad at timing just delayed all right see you guys next week everybody ahello everybody and welcome to the Friday debate podcast episode number three discussing topics in Android every single week I am of course your host Joshua varara what's going on everybody and uh I'm joined by our usual panel we have Andrew grud who is also the architect of the Friday debate every single week on androidauthority.com we also have writer Jonathan Feist here and our app guy on YouTube Joseph Hindi how's it going everybody hello Internet hello good nice uh as always we get together every single week and talk about a particular topic one that we post on Android authority.com on which a lot of our writers uh give their thoughts upon and uh we made it into a podcast form so we hope you guys have been enjoying the podcast thus far we are now in our third episode officially uh since we did a pilot over in um at CES uh but last week uh we weren't able to uh record uh because well uh not the least reasons where I was in China covering a uh media tour with Huawei which turned out to be a pretty good time uh and you can see those videos obviously I did some very nice Vlog Style videos so you can kind of see our experience rather than just you know watch some canned videos um they were uh they really did a a great job of just sort of bringing us out and we got to see their campus so thanks to Huawei out there but also it was Super Bowl Sunday on Sunday and even though we planned on postponing it until then unfortunately we all opted for the bad food and watching the game I wanted to to pop this question out there did your guys' team win I watch hockey oh okay so I mean did anybody watch any of you I watched I I I wasn't really rooting for any particular team I just think it's fun to watch Super Bowl oh okay so you guys didn't really put down like any bets or anything like I knew a couple people who won like like 500 bucks in a pool or something it was amazing no I ridiculous I just moved to to Portland Oregon and you know Seattle is kind of our rival especially when it comes to the college leagues and NFL of course is a different story that they have the big league team in Seattle so that they're kind of my team and so yes my team lost yeah I I feel the exact same way that we we don't have to get into it but I do have to just sort of echo everyone else's frustration over what that last play was I was like oh my God that was the worst call in history well not history but but in any case uh I just wanted to do a little bit of housekeeping and checking with everybody of course you can find our podcast all over the web so if you are on YouTube right now watching where we put it up for your guys' courtesy for your ears um what you can also do is find us on all the different podcast channels you can find us on iTunes on Stitcher um I'm very close to finalizing the uh SoundCloud Channel but of course you can use the podcast aggregation applications if you want to do it that way which is one of the best ways to listen to the Friday debay podcast actually so why don't we go ahead and just jump into this week's topic we're talking about Android roid 1 and if you don't know what that is we'll go ahead and give you a brief primer on it but here is our long form version of the Friday debate topic that we put up on our site and we're talking about right now part of the alert of Android 1 was that it would bring faster almost Nexus like updates to lower end phones promising an affordable offering that would still provide a decent Android experience with the slow update to lollipop though and the fact that the sales numbers are reportedly not all that high is Android 1 delivering on that promise can Android 1 be a success or with so many other affordable devices is it a largely unnecessary program so we're going to be discussing Android 1 its implications on the market because they're supposed to be low-end phones um but uh the first thing I wanted to pose to everybody is um we're all obviously uh familiar with Android 1 what it was supposed to be able to do um but for just a a brief primer about where it was supposed to be going and the reason why maybe us here in the west like in the US uh don't really know too much about it um how about uh gushy why don't you give us sort of your brief overview of Android 1 okay so Android 1 was never really meant for the West markets it was meant as a way to bring uh cheap phones to the next you know a billion or whatever five billion whatever they quote people and uh it was it wasn't so much about cheap phones it was about creating competitively priced devices that had faster updates I mean you have these low-end phones in India China you know throughout Asia basically and Africa as well anyway uh they tend to be stuck with the same version of Android for their entire life cycle and so the idea was to create something that was maintained by Google Google would provide the updates and it would create uh basically we get phones that had that Nexus like experience stock Android and we wouldn't be stuck with these old versions so it would provide the best experience possible instead of people getting you know something that basically never changes yeah definitely and uh the the whole idea that I mean updates are always a hot button top for anybody that uses an Android device and I think right right before our podcast we had a little bit of a pre-show thing going on we were talking about um if all of our devices are on lollipop at this point obviously we're using um anywhere between mid to highend uh phones but just putting this out there like let's say feisty the devices that you use um are you on lollipop on the vast majority of them at least no not at all the majority are still Jelly Bean 442 oh wow Jelly Bean okay well remember he uses a lot of low-end devices I say jelly bean I'm sorry Kat I'm not even paying attention here sorry I was about to say everyone raised their eyebrows and like wait a minute you uh you have a Moto G though right so your Moto G should be on Lolly yes the Moto G is up to date and of course that right now is my daily driver but the remainder remainder of the phones are running older OS okay which arguably isn't a bad thing considering all the bugs for lollipop but that's a conversation for another podcast yeah yeah basically how about you Joe um what are you rocking and are they all on lollipop um I have uh four devices currently including my my watch and yeah all of my devices are running lollipop but that's only because I mean you know I have a Nexus and a Nvidia Shield tablet which got official updates but uh my Note 3 is rooted so I got you know I'm I'm running a I think it's a note 4 Port right now and it's it's actually pretty terrible but it's functional so I'm going to keep it yeah see so that's the whole idea behind making something that an ecosystem I should say like Android one where you will be getting those those updates um people all around the world uh supposedly will be able to get their their hands on the true Android experience no matter what the price bracket might be uh but you know like gry said we're not really looking at Android 1 as a real uh competitor to like the super low-end devices that are super affordable let's put it that way um but you know I look through some of the Android 1 devices that are available and there there are quite a few of them um gry correct me if I'm wrong but the uh the the actually one of the main marketing points of Android 1 was that its devices were going to provide features that actually a lot of high end phones don't have like dual SIM uh micro SD card slot um and you know various uh oh like quad core processing even um though that's pretty much ubiquitous at this point but um I guess my question that I'm going to ask is is Android 1 a program that is made to be successful or is it really just Google sort of trying to extend their reach even farther um on my end of things like uh I I think it is I think it's supposed to be that thing where you know Google's extending their reach um the problem is that I know that it's not available in a lot of places yet uh everywhere I keep reading you know it's it's set to launch in these other places sometime soon but really it's like uh last time I checked it's only available in you know in a couple of countries uh like India and I think there's one or two more um uh there's in India Bangladesh Nepal Sri Lanka Indonesia and I think one of the models launched or maybe two in the UK that's about it are are they actually available there because or are they set to launch there think so well uh Indonesia is still launching um but the others I think all have it I believe I don't quote me on that 100% but I believe well I know that one of the main markets that it was supposed to come out in was like say India and yeah and India does have I think they only have like a couple though right exactly and um uh one of the reasons why we're talking about is because a recent story came out that Android 1 is supposed to come out in Indonesia very soon and on top of all of that you know the the other one the the the rumored not rumored but like the the small leak I should say is that these devices are the first ones to get an update to lollipop to 5.1 which was why Android 1 was aw thrust back into the into the Limelight a little bit because well everyone's kind of following the lollipop train right now oh yeah but um this is the thing though uh the sales numbers haven't really been all that great uh what is it I I'm questioning uh it's not necessarily a question for the panel but I'm just sort of questioning whether or not Google knew what the strategy was supposed to be for Android 1 um and you know in especially in developing markets developing countries where you should be able to sort of get a really big foot in the door with affordable phones if they're not selling very well could that possibly be because we have enough other phones on the market that are affordable anyway uh well you know like these things take time to you know to develop I mean I'm sure that you know Android 1 was something that was in development in Google's you know brain machine or whatever they're brainstorming it for a couple of years and you know when you look at 2013 you know there weren't a lot of super cheap smartphones I think like what the Moto X uh hadn't come out yet you know the Moto G hadn't come out yet there wasn't a whole lot going on in the you know in the mid-range and low range phones you know outside of having phones that had super old operating systems that never got updated so like hey let's do this thing Android one and then by the time they came out with it now we have the Moto X the OnePlus One the Moto G you know and all these other super affordable phones essentially everybody beat Google to the punch here and I think that's it's not the whole reason obviously uh but I think that at least a little bit part of it is that you know they're already you know lowcost phones that are getting updates pretty frequently and you know so what's the point of having Android one if these other phones exist well I mean the the question that comes to mind um how low is low enough then when it comes to the price because we're talking about phones like the you mentioned the OnePlus One the MotoX even the Moto G let's put the Moto G in that mix uh which are still let's say at best sub $200 phones um if price really does matter to people let's say in developing markets then oh yeah you know what I mean like agress go ahead well you know it's we have to realize to us it's like we don't see a lot like if we look at a phone we're like oh that's 150 that's 200 that's 250 to us that's they're all pretty close to the same price but you got to realize that some of these countries are only making like 80 or 90 bucks a month you know and so when you're making that little bit of money and uh obviously I might be wrong on their number but I've heard that quoted before for certain parts of Asia um anyway when you're making you know sub $100 a month you bet you're you bet you're you know butt at uh you know I'm trying not to cuss uh $55 you know there's phones that go as low as $55 $55 to $100 doesn't seem like a big deal to us but they are for them you know that's a huge deal and I could understand that if I was only you know and so I think to to people in the western markets we like oh there's not a huge difference between you know a phone that's 180 and a phone that's 200 but if you were making a lot less I think that $20 would make a huge difference to you you know yeah I do I do agree with that and you know it's this is this is a more this is a particular um system that Android that sorry not Android that Google put out Android one that might might kind of go over the heads of a lot of people in the west which is kind of the reason why I was excited to talk about it um uh feisty uh do you like your thoughts on Android one is there do you think that there's a reason why Android 1 is not really catching on is it really just a Time game or did and did Google get get swooped on the whole idea of making um uh really affordable phones uh well exactly what you say is part of it no doubt by all means there's other phones out there other phone makers that are doing the same kind of thing uh now I've never had the chance to touch one of these phones I wonder if in this case inexpensive means cheap and certainly that's a debate for any phone from any maker but uh you know that's that's one of my concerns where you know if they're all so to speak cheap devices then maybe that $20 makes that huge difference um but what I really think it comes down to is availability uh even here in the Western Market you know when the Nexus line of devices started launching you really couldn't you couldn't go into the Verizon the at start and pick out a Nexus device you had to know what you're were looking for go to the Google Play Store if Android 1 was in every store at every carrier I think it might be you know a little bit better off uh and now that that brings you to another idea um I did think about that that maybe the e-commerce Channel for Android 1 might be what might be hindering it because um now far be it for me to say that I know how carriers operate in places like Indonesia or India but I would imagine having been to um you know that side of the world at least that you know this that the smartphone has become rather ubiquitous and uh there's so much choice in the market now that it does come down to availability I do agree with you on that but if an Android One phone is supposed to be let's say cuz I'm looking at the website right now now one one one comment I do want to make is that the Android one website android.com one uh if the program is supposed to be geared towards developing countries the website sure doesn't make it look like it's supposed to be I don't know if you guys have ever looked at the website but it's it's incredibly colorful and there there are all these uh there all these uh pictures on the website that show people using these particular phones and places where you know you could probably afford something more and u I don't know just kind of irked me a little bit but I will say this the first time that the the the day that Android one was announced obviously it was at google.io this past uh June um I was super excited for it I thought that it was a great way of consolidating yeah um I I thought it was a great way of consolidating what's supposed to be a market that everyone in the world it's almost like the internet now you know the internet is almost like a a right for people to have it's becoming that ubiquitous and if smartphones are going to be the main way that people use it which it is in places in the East and this is a great way to have an entry point for it but it's a little disheartening to hear that it's not really going in that route um gushy when you when it was uh when it was announced uh what were you looking forward to in terms of Android 1 did you really think it was going to live up to his promise I really did and uh I felt that uh the idea was great um I still feel the idea is great and I don't think it's dead I think we're talking about like it's dead and I don't think it is um the problem is that uh there was big Ambitions with the idea of bringing it but it hasn't lived up to it I think there's a few reasons that like we haven't touched on for one thing um now I'm just speaking from the few I've seen but let's take uh for instance uh in India there's the uh carbon Sparkle 5 I think it's called and the Micromax uh canvas A1 and then there's a spice dream I can't remember exactly what it is anyway there's I remember the spice one yeah there's three phones there that I just mentioned they all have 4.5 displays with 854x480 resolution they all have the same exact 1.3 GHz quad core mediatech chip they all have 1 gab of ram they all have the same storage everything is the exact same they're boring um even the Aesthetics are pretty much right on with one another and so hell if I have three devices that look the same and then I have something like a yomi or I have a you know even the micro Maxes that are not from this line yeah I'm going to go with something else cuz he's a boring you know it's stock Android and I'm a stock Android Advocate but uh you know there's nothing that defines these phones is separate other than the brand so if you're a fan of carbon or you're a fan of Micromax but that's about it you know there's no difference and I think that's part of the failing is that I don't think the Android one phones we've seen are worth getting excited about for customers and then the fact that lollipop took so long doesn't help because that's supposed to be the big draw is that hey these are similar price to what you can get here but they also have the newest version of Android well no they don't cuz Android lollipop is now several months old and it's not here you know and so I feel like I still think that Android one is a it's a great concept I just feel like we have they've run into some hiccups but I do believe Google can still turn it around and I think Android 1 can still be a big program do you think can I disagree with you just a little bit sure by all means perfect um now concept I like it but I don't think it's dead on U now my how I remember Google IO was was basically they were on stage they said we're going to give the manufacturers a blueprint for a device M which is pretty much why we have the exact same devices for each one because they're just following Google's blueprint now that being said that that says to me that Google's blueprint Google's overall overview of this project is a little bit off I like it and I and I think it can go places but right now I think it's a little bit off and I don't I don't disagree with you actually I said that I think there's potential and I still do but yeah uh definitely now that said they gave a blueprint but they gave specifics they said hey you can use this you can use that it's not like you have to use the exact same chip they gave a range that they wanted to get within a price range but everyone just decided to do the same cookie cutter approach and so that's not totally Google's fault but yeah I think that the the program was a little Limited in the way it was approached and uh I have a theory I could be totally wrong but I I think that the fact that we're seeing 5.1 arrive on uh you know on Android one speaks to the fact that and even like I Feist I know you mentioned you know elsewhere when we've had conversations and stuff uh anyway uh you've mentioned that uh you felt that lollipops a little bit you know sluggish let's put it that way um and I think that that was part of the reason is I think that uh in its current form with its bugs and with everything that they just felt it couldn't be on there and so they needed to make some changes and I think that's why we're seeing 5.1 launch with Android 1 is that it's hopefully address some of those issues like I said that's just speculating but you know adding to that speculation I wonder if 5.1 is sadly an offshoot a forking of Android where 5.0.2 and that stream will continue on for you know the bigger the flagship devices and the 5.1 will go to the lower end or slower lower you know smaller Hardware devices there's already talk about testing of uh the 5.1 update on Nexus so I don't think that's the case I don't think Google would do that anymore you know they did that back in the day with like honeycomb but I think we're past that honeycomb I hope so has anyone used honeycomb that yeah it was a it was interesting I still have a functioning Logitech Review that runs honeycomb wa Logitech Review holy crap yeah yeah well I mean we we we mentioned honeycomb and you know we can you know immediately what comes to mind are the different devices that used to rock that kind of stuff I mean I'm on I'm on a Android like 1.6 right now using the G1 for my flashback series um I I don't know I thought that lollipop knowing that it's supposed to be compatible with let's say lower-end devices supposed to supposed to I maybe it was wishful thinking for me to think that that I could easily put that on a classic Android phone no I I'm using phone right now that could be considered what today's Android one phones are and it still has the Android market like I can't I can't even use the freaking play store to get the essential applications that I need what if uh you know Nostalgia is is not a very big thing in the tech world if you you know it's always about The Cutting Edge it's not really about Nostalgia and going back to your roots um but you know those that that's that's one of the uh caveats I have when it comes to lollipop is that you know it probably should have had it available for if there were versions of it that would work on any device pretty much then you know maybe make that make that reach like just so far that even classic phones could be used um so we're we're mentioning a lot here um that lollipop has some issues and maybe that's something that we will actually dive into in a little bit here I actually actually think I want to uh sort of hash that out I want to hear what your guys' thoughts are on that but I a thought came to mind could it be that these companies are creating the cookie cutter devices for Android 1 or even the the really cheap ones that they're making uh that are not part of Android 1 could it be that they're making the cookie cutter versions and just sort of they're they're sort of focusing on the bottom line because there's probably not a huge amount of profit to be had in a phone that let's say is only about $100 um am I am I out of line by saying that no I mean there they are in fact businesses and do in fact care about the bottom line so I mean you're probably right on there at least to an extent but you know I'm sure that there's probably something that's been worked out between you know these companies and Google where it's like you guys build the hardware you know we'll do the software and you know if something goes wrong you know I I don't think that Google's like paying these you know these companies for every phone that they make but you know I'm sure that there's something there to you know to to help encourage them to do to continue to do stuff like this um yeah no I think the biggest problem like feisty said earlier was uh is distribution really I mean you just you can't find the these things anywhere except for What on the internet right like these aren't being sold in stores and in carrier stores and stuff like that yeah I don't believe so but I don't know much about that aspect to be honest well the the thing is I've spoken to a lot of uh of Indian people who you know who use Android and uh a lot of them don't have things like credit cards and can't make purchases online and uh because that they use that and this is a whole different conversation but I'm going to bring it up for just a moment but that's that's the reason that they give for pirating applications like uh when the Monument Valley numbers came out they were like oh yeah no we pirated the out of this because we don't have credit cards to pay for it you know we we're not allowed to buy it so you know but we still want to play anyway so you know a part of me thinks like you know if the main way of distribution is online and you know a a lot of people in that in those countries don't have credit cards and don't have debit cards and you know don't have the internet then how are they supposed to order these damn things yeah you know it's an incredible point and like I mentioned earlier a lot of the people in let's say um Eastern developing countries they access to the internet is primarily through a smartphone so if you already own a smartphone to get to the internet how are you going to get in why would you get Android 1 because you you pretty much got your foot in the door already um and uh you know obviously there's going to be a huge socioeconomic discussion that could be had when it comes to this which is which is why I brought up the fact that the Android one website looks like I mean come on there's this there's this uh picture of this Asian dude walking through what looks like a farmers market uh you know and he's he's dressed to the nines he looks like a you know A well-dressed person and right next to it is a dude and like what I can only say is like a Ralph Lauren po shirt I'm like what is going on here like I think that one of the failures of Android 1 is the fact that it doesn't necessarily realize that you can't really use money to Market something that's supposed to help people who have no money and you know if this is supposed to be some sort of a Grassroots um well maybe not Grassroots cuz we're talking about Google here but um if this is supposed to be something that um developing countries are supposed to take advantage of it doesn't really seem like it from from the advertisements from the marketing not not not not in the slightest um you know it would be a really great idea and I can't remember which we talked about it on this podcast a couple of weeks ago or a few weeks ago maybe but um what was those only weeks we had yeah oh yeah mopa but uh who was the company that had the uh like the the refrigerator trucks full of technology and they're driving around and selling it to people uh that's uh something that uh they're getting ready to do with uh they haven't done it yet but they're getting ready to do that with uh um Project Ara that's the kind of stuff they need to be doing with Android one they need to be you know putting an ice cream truck full of Android 1 devices and literally drive it up and down the street and try to sell it to people like Ice Cream cuz you know like Josh said it's a you know it's supposed to be a Grassroots movement and how you going to get to a Grassroots movement if they don't have the internet yet you know you have to bring it to them yeah in order for them to buy it and you know I mean the people that already have credit cards and already have enough money to buy a smartphone and have the internet I mean those people are going to go with the extra hundred bucks and and get something a little bit better than this I mean let's face it that's what they're doing already yeah exactly and you got to go to the people you know I I have this image in my head of Google basically saying okay we created this like you guys said feisty and gushy a blueprint for you guys to create these phones go have at it and then they wash their hands of the whole thing um that's you know it's almost it's almost upsetting me just a little bit because I I love the democratization of information of the internet and I love that you know at at at Google IO I was drinking the Koolaid I thought oh man Google is not the evil company that sometimes we say they are they really are trying to help people and now sorry exactly right then we sometimes say that I'm sorry I cracked me up like I to to to think that um this was a focus this was actually a pretty substantial part of google.io um to think that this was a big part of it and that it had a focus it just kind of irks me a little bit that um first of all the way that they're presenting it if this is going to be the main way of finding it android.com one I'm not really convinced um and even then like we're saying the sales seem to be be uh in in the down portion right now and that's just a little bit saddening I guess to me but I'm I'm talking existentially here I'm not fuus I've been uh I've been sitting here uh trying to do some Google searching it does look like they have done some relationships with uh the carriers in India and stuff so there's a little um it's primarily online from what I can see like flip cart and you know Amazon and stuff but uh they do have some carrier relationship so they've tried to do it a little but you know it's a lot it's a different landscape I don't know I don't feel like Google's necessarily let us let let down the program I just feel it's been a rough to a rough start I'm not giving up on it yet I think it still has a lot of potential and Google sometimes is that way it takes them a little while to get into their group with stuff you know so I don't think it's necessarily Down and Out by any means yet yeah know I mean Google's always about these long form things you guys remember uh you know Google play music you know it started out it wasn't really all that great you just upload some songs and stream them and now you can go online buy a bunch of songs and have them not stream because it's freaking broken still so you know but they're still working on it and that's the important thing yeah um I suppose on some level though it's just that that's the way Google operates right we we have we are all basically beta testers I say you're perpetually in beta stage yep that's how all their products are For Better or Worse you know I you know in some ways I don't mind that but you know with a program like this yeah I I agree with you it's a little a little upsetting to think that it had the potential to be a big deal but then again you're seeing all these other companies that are still producing good handsets so I think that the goal is still being reached even if Android one's not the one doing it you know yeah so who do you guys think is responsible for making this a success is this Google's Project do they own this or is it up to the manufacturers or they just have a guideline to follow I think it's supposed to be pretty 5050 was the idea but uh well we know you say manufacturers and Google but we also have carriers involved oh yeah and that always makes things more complicated yes and retailers distribution I mean yeah well I mean the uh there oh sorry go ahead I was say there's a lot there to consider Logistics there's so many channels to go through you know and and I suppose you know giving them the benefit of the doubt giving a multi-billion dollar company the benefit of the doubt uh they can only market so much um I mean below those P those ridiculous pictures I was talking about earlier um are you know broken apart versions of an example of an Android One phone that has all of these features that supposedly are going to be really great for people who can afford it or or the fact that it should be affordable for a lot of people uh so looking at some of these other devices that are also affordable now obviously we did mention already earlier that how low is low enough uh obviously for us something like that's $200 or even the one plus1 which is $349 uh constitutes affordable to us but if Android 1 is having here front and rear cameras quadcore processor micro SD card all day battery well okay everyone says that but yeah uh dual SIM cards well what would constitute an affordable phone to you is it let's look at this from another perspective what if Android 1 is a way of telling people that you don't have to compromise for the features that should become standard for a phone uh feisty you're using a Moto G um would you say the Moto G is the bare minimum when it comes to what could be an affordable phone that has the features you want sort of yes um now I've got my gripes with this phone and uh let's start off with the processor I mean this Snapdragon 400 you know I spent 200 to get this Google Play edition version and it's getting a Snapdragon 400 device right now could be done for $30 out there U so I don't know I I'm not sure where the processor Market is at right now there's no to me there's no solid successor uh there's the Snapdragon 410 but you know we're not really seeing it out there yet um so I'm not sure I think really comes down to that where anything below a Snapdragon 400 you know the Snapdragon 200 devices and whatnot oh dear I just I don't think they have enough juice uh even now this Moto G it it's recently updated to 5.0.2 and I notice at the Slowdown I am now feeling that the 400 is not strong enough Snapdragon 400 we've seen in a few devices I'm looking I I'm doing my own little research on the side just to just to sort of bolster this um it look looks to me here that Android one phones from the various Partnerships that they have primarily use mediatech processors uh yeah there's uh there's been talks about using uh like there's Partnerships with Qualcomm it just hasn't happened yet uh I think we're going to see the second generation Android one phones are going to be a lot different than the first gen I think getting it out there they started with pretty base phones and I'm hoping that the second gen will really see what the program's made of would they call that Android 2 I think it'll just still be Android one but it's it's Google they're going to call it Android 1.1 yep coming soon now I do have to I do have to say like you uh we mentioning were mentioning a bare minimum in specs and uh the Snapdragon 400 on Kit Kat does great uh lollipop is supposed to be even better for that for lower end and so I really do sincerely think bugs are in the way and I think that 5.1 and later updates will fix that but anyway talking about Snapdragon 400 um now fece says you know almost $200 but is that the bare minimum for a Snapdragon 400 device absolutely not um for instance yomi's uh what how do they pronounce it is it redmi or redeem redmi is that the the line yeah usually it's me if it's Mi yeah so the redmi 1s for for example is uh the equivalent of $100 in India um and it has a Snapdragon 400 in it it has one gab of ram it has an 8 G it has an 8 megapixel camera you know it has a I believe it has has 8 gbt of storage let me see um I'm going to look it up uh yeah 8 gabt of storage you know and so and it's 100 bucks and so there's companies that can do it that can produce a high-end device and I think that's probably speaks to why Android one isn't doing well is they're selling it a mediatech device when yai and stuff is able to produce device with a Snapdragon 400 for the same price I mean it's kind of a no-brainer I'm going to go with the yummy you know yeah and speaking from experience mediatech processors are they're not they're not terrible by any means but they just don't kind of hold a candle to snapdragons and even then if we're talking yeah if we're talking about entry-level mediatech phones uh processors I should say oh my goodness like who's to know exactly what kind of experience you're going to get on that now I mean with with the uh sorry not to cut in but with like the I do want to say with the redmi like the redmi 1s you are getting Jelly Bean and that was supposed to be the point of Android one is you're getting the newest version whereas with uh well obviously it's running the MIUI or whatever they call it but uh it's based on Jelly Bean and so you're not getting the newest version of Android and that was the point of Android one but to me if I was if I was low on money and I was in one of these countries and you gave me two phones that were $100 one had a crappy not to be mean but a crappy mediate Tech processor but it had Kit Kat and it was about ready to upgrade a lollipop and the other has Jelly Bean but it is running a faster processor it's more optimized it has a better camera you know what I'm not I'm not GNA be Petty about the Android version I'm GNA go with the device that gives me more power for the money you know well I love that you said that because I I expected our conversation to move into you know the the scales you know which one are you going to pick if you had an Android One phone or something else that had a little bit more to offer uh feisty what would that be for you are you a software Monger in the sense that you really want the latest one or will the actual specs um let's say really sway you in the other direction not to say that I don't want the latest OS but I definitely look at the hardware before the the software uh now software again plays a part that it always should uh but I mean Hardware theoretically can be upgraded with new software uh these devices it's not like an old PC where you can rip it out put in new Ram you get what you pay for and and that's it there's no upgrading these phones so Hardware is always what I look at enter Project Ara well yes not too our podcast will always go full circle somehow how about you Joe um goodness gracious this is such a complicated answer um because you know we were talking about the minimum specs a minute ago and you know everyone was like oh yeah you know I can deal with you know 1 gigabyte of RAM and and Snapdragon 400 I'm looking at my current apps usage and I just flashed this ROM today right so I just reinstalled everything and all that it's totally clean install and I'm using 715 megabytes of ram just for apps that's not including my system uh with including the system it's 1.2 GB so a 1 gbyte phone with the apps that I run is like impossible for me I would never be able to use it because everything would be slowing down because of lack of ram so like you know for me personally like my minimum is 2 gabes and you know if I'm looking at something that's you know lots and lots of updates or you know Hardware I'm going Hardware um because Hardware can always you know like uh feisty said you can always upgrade Hardware with better software eventually as long as you buy it from a company that doesn't suck HTC just kidding just kidding just kidding I love it I'm buying an HTC 1m9 I'm allowed to to say mean things right now but um but you know like I it's it's a complicated subject I I don't really have my thoughts totally in line yet for this one so uh I'm going to shut up now well I mean that's that's the thing this is the reason why um at least maybe gushy and I were hoping that Android 1 would be able to consolidate these issues and it doesn't seem like that it would it so far has been able to who knows what would happen two years down the road if all of these companies who are always looking for the bottom line will actually allow themselves to go below that line and say okay let's make a phone that is not only got the bare minimums um and we mean bare minimums like 2 gab of ram like Joe was saying uh but we're also going to make it affordable it seemed up until Android one happened and maybe even until now if we're talking about Android one not necessarily succeeding it was sort of a pipe dream uh and for people in developing countries I mean I'm Filipino and there are I have so many family members and people that I know in the Philippines who uh are stuck with particular types of phones and you know even my father who goes back to the Philippines every now and then um he brings back phones he pretty much brings back my hand-me-downs to give to people in the Philippines so they can have a more upgraded experience because otherwise they wouldn't have anything um the the the Philippines is still called the texting capital of the world because that's what everyone can do not everyone has a smartphone not everyone can get on WhatsApp or whatever the hot uh messaging app is nowadays but you know that's that's why this this topic sort of hits home for me is because I want to see the democratization and the overall availability of a program like this because I I I know firsthand um you know from from personal experience what it can be like for people who have that trouble to get a phone like this um so owing owing it to maybe a little bit of greed from some companies or maybe Google's reach is not as far as we thought you know the Android 1 program is something that we have to still wait and see where it's going to go um I wanted to uh actually gushy I wanted to can I put you on the spot right now a little bit I guess we'll see how it goes we I think mostly from you during our conversation now we've heard quite a few uh a little bit of shade against lollipop like can can we get a small gushy rant on like what's wrong with lollipop because oh um well grab a seat kids I don't want to be I mean I oh sorry I really honestly I was say I really honestly thought you were about to do a oh hell no but it sound like about to go for I'm just trying to kind of gather my thoughts here I mean I have lollipop um on my Nexus 5 uh and on my Nexus 7 and on my Nexus 4 and on my Nexus 10 I have a lot of nexist anyway I have it um and I'm considering going back to Kit Kat whoa um I think lollipop has a lot of potential people are probably getting ready to bring out their pitchforks right now they're going to be listening to this um I'm a Google fan I think lollipop has a lot of potential I just think it's very B it it's very buggy um whether or not that's Justified since it's such a big jump is probably another conversation uh but but uh ultimately it's just that I kind of feel like with the fact that we this time around had a testing phase where we were able to try out the phone and Report our bugs you know I I downloaded it right away on my Nexus 5 you know what back before it was what it was just you know Android L um I felt like we were going to get a a version of Android that was pretty stable from the get-go and it hasn't been um the battery life promises on my device at least hasn't been what it's supposed to be be uh I run into a lot of random glitches and shutdowns and I'm not going to say that I represent everyone and you might have the lollipop device right now and be like I've had no problems at all and that's fine just my own personal experience I just feel like there was a lot of bugs there's been battery bugs battery draining bugs there's been Wi-Fi bugs there's been all sorts of and it just feels like we should have had these figured out before now um eventually when it gets all solved in Android 5 point whatever five .1 whatever is there I'll probably be very happy with lollipop I like material design um it's a big change it's bright it's colorful I'm cool with it uh you know and there's a lot of good changes with lollipop but at the same time if you are still on kitcat don't necessarily be in a rush to get lollipop eventually it's going to be awesome but don't be like I wish I had lollipop because you may not necessarily be thrilled with what you get I mean there's still a lot that's not there I think lollipop has a lot of potential but it's not polished to where I want it to be um and yeah I know there's people are probably mad at me night now for saying it but um personally I just feel like lollipop has a lot of potential but it hasn't all reached it and what do you guys think I mean do you feel like lollipop is everything that's cracked up to be right now I I I have full confidence before I hand it over I have full confidence Google will get it there I I I absolutely have confidence that Google will get it there um I don't think lollipop will be a disaster it's not going to be the windows8 of uh of the anth hey windows I like was actually fairly stable every hates Android 8 I mean Windows 8 Android in the future now no every everyone hates Windows 8 um except for a small subsection of people yeah I had no problem with it either Joe but I don't think lollipop will remembered it's a bad version is what I'm saying but right now it's not quite there in my opinion what do you guys think is Lollipop what you think it should be right now um I think the L no first of all you're absolutely right lollipop is buggy as all hell like I have three devices with lollipop and the one that's rooted the one with the broken warranty running a a a a ROM from a phone that was released a year later is the most stable device in my in my possession right now like you know my uh Nvidia Shield tablet's a great device but it has audio bugs that keep you know like you'll be listening something you'll be like oh hello there and then keep going uh my Nexus 5 uh sometimes connects to my Wi-Fi and sometimes it doesn't it's really up to it uh sometimes I sweet talk it a little bit like oh come on baby please just for a little bit I really need to download this app to test it I'll buy you some flowers and stuff I never buy it flowers which is probably why it's mad at me but um all of our listeners have a very colorful idea of what Joe does with his phone yeah you don't want to know it gets crazy i i i w i woo them I woo them to try to get them to work and they don't work sometimes and it's you know it I like uh gushy I've considered going back to KitKat on a number of occasions but given the nature of my work um I pretty much got to stay with the with the latest because that's what people want to see but no um it it speaks to it oh thanks a lot gushy yeah thanks for that that chat there totally derailed me garlic bread and phones my two favorite things anyways um it we were talking about it earlier the the always in beta thing that pretty much everybody who's a Google fan goes through you know everything is always in beta all the time you know and we see that effect on more than just Android you know you have a Chrome browser that eats up a bunch of ram you know you have Google play music which doesn't stream sometimes and now it's getting to the point where they're so rapid fire with these releases every single year with Android that I think it's just starting to catch up to them a little bit you know they're it's getting harder and harder for them to rebase and redo all of this stuff and and come out with an operating system that has no bugs cuz you know you look at Windows 10 when did Windows 8 come out like 2 3 years ago something like that yeah yeah and Windows 10 has even come out till next that's four years four years that Windows has to work out the bugs and get the and get this stuff in order before it gets released and you know Google is due out for another version of Android in freaking nine months like are you kidding me like it's it's starting to get to a point where I think you know Google and people in general just need to calm the held down a little bit and like you know the way I look at software is you know does it work great it's doing what it's supposed to do why are you in a rush to change that and uh it it just it feels like you know it's getting to a point where I don't even want to update anymore I feel like I'm being forced to update because otherwise I'm going to get left in the dust and uh that's that's my little micro rant on uh on Android and just upgrading too quickly I think that's the real problem is just they had 365 days to do it and they needed more time okay um I have a the reason why I love that you guys are going at length about this because I'm I'm going to bring it around in a second but I want to hear from feisty uh thoughts on lollipop and do you have any problems with it the way that it seems Joe and gushy have you know just some cave uh not caveats but some reservations about it I hate it I'm sorry hell no no no lollipops awesome eventually you know lollipop I have found a few minor things but uh you know in the UI in the front end I I would specifically call out this priority mode on the audio settings it's an awesome option but why is it the default it should be a backend thing that you can enable and then just allow allow us to hit the power or the volume rocker and turn the phone down and off but anyways that's being fixed in 5.1 by the way just just throwing that out there excellent too little too late you can always wait for Thursday my Android customization series and I cover these things and how to get by it uh no uh plug sorry honestly though uh the biggest thing for me I think is Art the Android runtime um the the thing that has been bothering me with the the phone specifically the Moto G uh I got a Nexus 9 here it's been great uh the Moto G I'm finding that its Ram utilization is a blessing and a curse all at the same time uh yes it's loading apps faster however I'm glad you guys brought up Windows it it's doing the old Microsoft thing where it's just slowly bleeding and sucking up more and more RAM once every week and a half or so I have to restart the device I hate having to restart my devices oh boohoo that few seconds just ends your world huh uh see it it goes beyond that I am a huge helium backup user or carbon whatever you if you remember it from the old days so when you hook this guy up to your PC you get everything all set up you can run your backups and restores I don't like to have to hook it up all the time again that 30 seconds right uh but every time I restart the device I have to reconfigure these things and and redo all this stuff and I don't I didn't have to before is my point I did not have to on KitKat I do have to now uh for some clarification do you mean like reboot the device or do you mean like total like wipe the device re factory reset just just reboot power toggle oh okay which again it's a minor thing but and that is my largest complaint with with lollipop so I I guess in the long run we're doing pretty good it's okay if that's the complaint okay uh well personally speaking I should give my answer on this actually too is um I really enjoy lollipop I think the the aesthetic uh upgrade was something that was very truly needed as much as I loved Hollow material design is Far and Beyond a better way of presenting Android uh and I'm also one of those people I I've said this a couple times before and I haven't gotten much reaction to it yet but I'm also one of those people who the best way for me to describe it is I'm a very tolerant technology user if there are some minor issues I'll say minor because it's my scope if there's some issues with the way that I'm using my version of Android I will find a way around it and and use up that like two hours to figure out you know is there a way for me to optimize it better or is there something I can do to alleviate it blah blah blah so really when I run into any like little things I called Joe a uh what did I call you that other time a stutter Nazi I think is what it was um that I that that kind of stuff doesn't really bother me where um if I see a little bit of a hiccup here and there the only real problem that I've had on my Moto X at least with uh with with lollipop is that the Calendar app which I don't use keeps force closing on me and YouTube force closes on me all the time by the way that's probably while while you're using it yes oh wow uhhuh a Google+ uh reboots my phone for me yeah that happened that happened to me too that happened to me too on lollipop mhm see I by far do not get these types of problems on the phones that I use and that the the the worst thing that's happened to me on lollipop is that the calendar just every now and then no matter what I'm doing cuz I almost never touch the Calendar app it will just pop up a little window that says sorry calendar has stopped or whatever it says on there that's really all I get um and I can't really begin to even tell you why that is the case with me but I actually have had a very great time with l that's kind of why I mentioned that I'm not representing everyone because there's a lot of people who probably have no of these none of these issues that Joe and myself have ran into and that's great and honestly if I reloaded lollipop who knows maybe I would maybe we better next time around you know sometimes sometimes just stuff happens while you're installing and just you know that that has happened to me before where I've reloaded and it's been just fine and I've thought about doing that to see you know and so you know I know with Windows and whatnot and any operating system sometimes just stuff goes wrong and sometimes just you know starting it all over again is enough you know reloading everything from scratch is enough and you know maybe I should consider that before I get too angry but like I've had a a volume issue where now my Nexus 5 isn't as high and who knows maybe my speaker is going out but it happened it coincided with the update to 5.0.2 so I'm guessing it's a software issue and I just haven't got around to reloading to see and so that was probably the the main reason why I'm annoyed about lollipop is that I actually still use the phone unlike most people to call people um like my like Mom like my mom and people like that you know family members and so yes I call my mom she lives three hours away I have to call her every once in a while see how she's doing um anyway and so when I'm making a call I can barely hear so now I have to use a Bluetooth you know Bluetooth headset and look like a dbag all the time running around with a Bluetooth and so which I hate Bluetooths and so I guess that's the reason why I'm annoyed by it it's just little stuff like that and like I said I I have nothing against lollipops design I have nothing against all the new apis I think lollipop is the biggest change the Android scene since Ice Cream Sandwich absolutely but you know then again when uh Ice Cream Sandwich showed up there was a lot of issues too wasn't there you know so maybe that's just growing pain yeah probably growing pains and whatnot I I I I agree with you though gushy if I had that problem where I had to use a Bluetooth headset all the time which I actually do use um I don't use like the one earpiece ones but I use like full-on headphones that have a microphone on them if I had to use that just to talk to somebody I'd probably be pissed off too so I don't blame you at all for that yeah and like I said may maybe my phone but I guess that would be a whole another issue if my Nexus 5 which is only it's not even I didn't get it right when it came out so it's only about a year old and so maybe my Nexus 5 you know speakers going out but if that's the issue then I'm even more annoyed yeah perhaps so okay well here's where I wanted to bring It full circle then there are problems with lollipop and not the least of which is the fact that it's not necessarily available for even lower end phones right now if we're talking about Android 1 but bringing it back to the whole Android one thing if these are problems we're having with lollipop on higher end phones is it Justified for Android 1 to use it as a main marketing strategy that's a really yeah that's a really good question um I don't know if it's not as if it's not as sustainable or even stable let's say stable operating system and and it's supposed to be their platform to create a democratization of smartphones is that really something they should be doing if these are the problems we're having in the high-end Market yeah um well like gushy said you know lollipop has a lot of potential and they they are going to fix all of these stupid little problems eventually um I got a feeling that it's going to be like jelly bean where it's going to be you know already 5.1 is already lollipop so we're probably going to have a 5.2 lollipop what did I did I drop out there for a sec no no I I thought I heard a noise over from gretchie also but okay oh yeah but uh yeah no I'm sorry go ahead bud I said I'm sorry maybe I dropped out just all of a sudden it went quiet oh no no we're fine guys uh but yeah go for it technical difficulties um I totally lost my train of thought guys I'm sorry potential potential with Android one and potential with lollipop that is more Google is going to fix these problems and when they do fix these problems it's going to be fine you know it'll work better I actually noticed uh I have a Nexus 7 2012 or I did I actually gave it to my roommates girlfriend's kid uh because I yeah that's right that that that's the new demographic for tablets that barely work kids uh oh man that sounded bad I'm sorry anyways um but I had Android 5.0.0 on it and it was garbage like the Nexus 720 12 was totally unusable period like I couldn't even open and read a comic book like flipping the pages took 2 seconds and it was just like I wanted to destroy the thing and then I put 5.0.2 on there and a lot of those problems were alleviated not all of them but enough of them to where I felt comfortable giving the tablet to a kid and I know that the kid would probably still be able to enjoy it even if I couldn't um it's just you know like gresy said it's going to be one of those things where it's going to take some time and they got to get all this fixed I just kind of wish you know like just year I'd like for Google to go you know what guys we're not doing an Android release this year we're going to do something really big next year we want to work on it make sure it's perfect no we need to changes now Joe quiet I I know need the changes now hash Nexus Warriors Google Google can't necessarily be hideo Kojima so I want 6 I want 6.0 where is it it's just it's getting to a point where you hear these things over and over again and it's just like yeah maybe it's just time to to stop with with the uh with the Nexus style yearly updates thing like I just don't think it's working anymore no you're bad I I I do think I I'm honestly those these are going to be my favorite moments on the podcast is when um you know one of the golden rules of podcasting is there should never be any dead air but I actually would I actually love it I I would love it every time I bring up a question and you guys are like I got to think about that for a second because I think that's those are the questions that we we hope to be able to to to to answer you know that we get answers to because that's the whole premise behind Android 1 is the fact that you'll get the latest uh the latest operating system um but we've heard from three people here or actually two gushy and Joe that you're thinking of going back to Kit Kat oh no he is no I'm sticking I'm sticking with it I just I've had those moments uh I'm going to probably reload lollipop on my Nexus 5 and see how it goes and if it's still okay but I think we'll get there uh I think 5.1 will be a solution uh hopefully uh but that brings me you know you're were talking about you know Android 1 and whether or not uh lollipop should be on there I think that's why it's not um you know I have to give Google credit there I think that uh they realized that it was going to be a subpar experience out of the box and so they waited and uh I think that's why it's launching in Indonesia with 5.1 and that's why Android 1 is going to be the first to see 5.1 is because I think that's they address the issues and I think that Android one will hopefully start becoming a bigger deal after this I think that you know and so I I have faith in Google I do I mean we probably sound like the most anti-google uh Android podcast ever but no I have absolute faith that Google will get it right and uh I think that they had the hindsight to realize you know if we throw lollipop on here and it's just and it's laggy and it's buggy on a low-end phone people are going to hate Android one so we're better off to take a little flak for waiting you know that's so funny if if it works on our our crappiest phones that has got to work on the on the better phone yeah well that's what I'm thinking is if they if they optimized it for Android one if they if Android 5.1 is is optimized for Android one uh then theoretically it should work fine for everything else because it's if it can work well on low end it should work well on everything else with a little bit of work unless it has a Tegra 3 in it because then it won't work at all trust me how about how about you feisty uh do you think that um you know owing to all the things we said about lollipop is it is it is it Justified that Android One is using it as one of its main marketing strategies uh before I answer that I I have to thank Joe for bringing up the Nexus 7 I'm sticking with mine man I I'm going to try and get this to work um now I I will say that the lollipop update on this old 2012 Nexus 7 um yes changing apps is a terrible experience but once I'm inside an app especially a heavier game uh the it is running much better uh so your was it your roommate's s or girlfriend's niece no good time with or something yeah so going to the question sorry um there is always that expectation when you upgrade an OS that it's going to be an improvement to to the system to your device um so certainly waiting and holding off for this you know proper 5.1 I say proper we'll see what happens uh was a great move that that's absolutely what they needed to do so Android 1 I'm with the other guys absolutely I have high hopes for the program I I think it has a future assuming they can looping back to the beginning get their marketing and distribution figured out okay uh yeah I I I have hopes for it I'm kind of on the fence after having been one of those people that was like oh my God my relatives in the Philippines are going to benefit from this so much and then you know we get this kind of news from it uh that's why I guess that's why I was a little bit impassioned during our discussion is because you know I really want to see stuff like this succeed I want to see I want to see developing countries develop you know and um you know if Google was going to be at the Forefront of providing smartphones to the masses who otherwise wouldn't be able to Pro to afford the experiences that we are blessed to have here in the west uh then I you know I'm all for it so I have High Hopes as well but I wanted to explore all the issues as to to why and if lollipop was one of them we were going to put it to task and I'm glad that we were able to do that so with that I think that we've uh thoroughly been able to go through this particular topic for this week's Friday debate stay tuned to Android Authority for all of the best coverage and for the podcast the Friday debate podcast of course and in the background we're having a little bit of a chat War um the uh uh the Friday debay podcast of course is available every Friday on all of the podcast networks and we are discussing Android topics every week you can follow all of us on social media all four of us uh the best place to find everybody is on Google+ using plus and of course our full names but you can also find us on various other uh sites as well like Twitter and if you want to find out what those sites are and get the links to all of our social media sites you can go to the Post at androidauthority.com on which we will have the Friday debate podcast ready for you to listen some Flavor in Your Ear uh make sure you stay tuned uh next week also uh where we're probably going to have maybe one or two different uh guests on there from the Android authority team so you can look forward to that but I want to give another thanks to our uh hosts for this week our usual group thank you again for being on uh as always keep in tuned to Android Authority for all the best get over to our YouTube channel and drop us some likes on those videos and subscribe to the channel if you haven't already also rate US on iTunes Stitcher all the different podcast networks because it also UPS our visibility on their particular websites uh all in all all I think that should do it for this week's podcast so we're going to try this every single week I want you guys to join me on this one uh Android authority Friday debate podcast discussing topics in Android every week we are of course your source for all things and Android are he doing that on purpose Joe no I'm just bad at timing just delayed all right see you guys next week everybody a\n"