9to5Mac Overtime 014 - Zac Hall talks 'Visioneers'
The Power of Writing Down Thoughts and Tasks
Like okay and if you feel like you haven't done much lately you're like oh there it is yeah and it's just nice to get the stuff like I think David Allen calls it open Loops like it's it's stuff that's that takes up brain Cycles in your head like for instance you know you have to do something and if you don't write it down and capture it then it's just always around there spinning and it's taking up like you're always worried about it in the back of your head whereas when you write it down you get it off your mind and you free up that brain cycle to do other things and I think that's the most valuable part.
The ability to break down a task into smaller, manageable steps is also crucial. For example, if you want to make a video on your studio, there are many steps involved in that process. Breaking each of those steps down makes it feel like a project rather than a task. This is where having a clear plan and prioritizing tasks can help.
Personal Endorsements and Creative Expression
I recently had the opportunity to write ad copy for a company I admire, and I wanted to do it in a more personal way. Instead of simply typing out the words, I used a Kindle Scribe paper tablet with a pen that feels like writing on paper. This was a nostalgic experience for me, as I'm used to writing on paper rather than screens.
Using this device allowed me to express myself more freely and creatively. I started writing in the margins and drawing pictures, which helped me get my thoughts down without worrying about grammar or spelling. The Kindle Scribe is like a tool that lets you tap into your creative side and express yourself in a way that feels authentic.
The Future of Writing and Creativity
I was wondering about the potential future of writing and creativity with new technologies. Specifically, I'm interested in the Apple Pencil on a matte-screen iPad. If they were to include this feature, it would require some innovative design solutions to avoid damaging the screen or affecting its performance.
I think that if I had to prioritize features, tactile feedback would be more important than minimizing reflections or slippage. Using a paper-like screen protector with an Apple Pencil has worked well for me in the past, and I'm excited to see how these technologies will continue to evolve.
Catching Up with Zach
I recently caught up with Zach again, and it was great to chat with him about various topics. We talked about his work and upcoming projects, including a nanotexture iPad that's expected to arrive soon. I look forward to discussing this new technology when it becomes available.
For those who are interested in learning more about Zach's work or want to stay up-to-date on his latest projects, they can find him online at Apollo Zac (a o l o). It was great talking with Zach again, and I'm looking forward to our next conversation.
"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enwhat is up folks this is Jeff Benjamin here with overtime episode number 14 I believe and I'm here with Zach Hall Fernando is on vacation he's in Europe somewhere having having a ball what's up Zach it is so good to have you on the show how you doing hey Jeff I'm a huge fan of of accidental Tech podcast and I'm glad to be on this uh extra segment that you you guys have been doing thank you man thank you appreciate it yeah yeah so so you've been at um 9 to5 for how like when did you start at 9 to-5 I started on April the 1st 2013 oh okay so you recently just had a anniversary then we hit number 11 yeah yeah yeah wow which is the same age as my daughter so like it's really easy to keep up with with one or the other you know so so how did you like what is your origin story so so I'm I'm from the south I was born in Alabama um kind of moved around Georgia Mississippi Florida um went went to school at uh South Miss University of South Mississippi and I was studying journalism and I did one year and I paid for one and a half years of school and um then I would say like in that time frame um my nerves got to me and it was just like i w i i don't think I was like ready for school yet you know what I mean and I certainly wasn't like like like stability wasn't there for for like support you know for a 20-year-old and so I went from from there to south Mississippi to um to stay with my my granny who was like my mom she raised me and um you know stayed there the idea there was like go to school there and and get back on my feet and so when I was there I applied I I worked at Sears before that so I sold TVs it's like my first job out of school and um which was which was a lot of fun cuz it was like Sears you know like I don't even know if there's still around anymore but like what I would do was I would sell I would sell people on TVs plus warranties which makes your commission and and then they would go to buy it and then I would say well we don't have inventory today it'll be here in 2 weeks and then we'll say well best by has it today so then they go to Best Buy and buy it after I it was a bad job it was a bad job oh man yeah that's that's hey I have a weird Sears story likee I I love Sears as a like it has a special play in my place in my heart it's the weirdest thing but Sears my mom used to always go to the mall and it was torturous you know you're a little kid and you're like hiding in between the the clothing racks and stuff like that it was terrible but but Sears had a Super Nintendo there like a little kiosk yeah and I would it it was like an arcade for me because we would always be in that store for some reason and I just have really fond memories of playing like almost beating Super Mario World in Sears it's it's weird I know it's weird you're living in the Sears catalog yeah so I have really like fond memories so I would go to Sears and people would like why do you want to go to Sears just you're just weird I just like the smell and just reminded me of childhood so I don't know it was kind of weird Side Story but anyway so you worked at Sears and then what was next yeah so I went to I went from Sears and I when I was in South Florida I was like talking to Sears there and they're like when I was like this isn't really great um so I applied for the AT&T store to sell phones for fulltime and the Apple store part-time and um fortunately like my family was like supportive of me they were like you know you you don't want to be full-time you want to go be part-time and go to school and everything and so um and also just like you know you pick an AT&T or apple like you know go apple and so I did I worked at the Apple Store in Boer rone Florida and um it was uh I would say like 201 11 through 2013 and um and that was that was kind of a cool period but but during that time um my granny got cancer she got she she had lung cancer which just like out of nowhere and um you know never smoked or anything and it was one of those things where it's just like like like why and she was like 60 63 years old so you know relatively young and um and all of a sudden that like that you know whole chaotic time period of like being in school and just kind of like you know not doing great in school like emotionally um focus wise MoneyWise all that to being you know 12 hours away from where I was was like it just made sense it was like all of a sudden I've got purpose here now that I wouldn't have had otherwise um and so she she lived 10 months with cancer before um it took her life but it was like for those 10 months I was her caregiver like and it was I mean for someone that's like my mom to me it was just like returning that you know that love and um and and because of that situation the Apple Store didn't work out anymore after like a year and a half it was like you know you can do a leave of absence for like a small amount of time but not indefinitely you know and we just decided as a family like it's best that that you know we can hire a caretaker or you can be the caretaker and my granny much preferred me to be there and so there were I say like maybe like a few months where three months went by with like just no income but I was just my granny's caretaker and i' had already been talking to Mark Gman because as an Apple Store Store employee with like you know angst and you know humor and just like you know a kid I was running an anonymous Twitter account like a lot of people that worked at an Apple Store where where they vented about the experience and this isn't like the um the John Broward era of like the New York Times is writing about how poor you know relatively poor the conditions of an Apple Store were like and it really it was the best shop I've ever had compared to Sears uh second job too but it was also like you could see how how it was um like it was stressful you know I I started going to therapy for the first time in my life when I worked at the Apple store because I started having anxiety attacks at work you know which was like had had health insurance through Apple so that was cool um but also it was like you know that sort of like triggered that air that um that sort of season and I've gone to therapy since then but it was like that was like the you know culmination of like stress and and and fear and and anxiety and everything and the apples were like pulled it out of me and then I went to like my therapist was like I see a lot of you guys here from the Apple Store you know so it was stressful you know um but but because I was doing the N of his Twitter account marker and had like interacted with it and everything and he was just like this is hilarious you know like and I and maybe there's a little bit of like you know um trying to build sources within retail but he's got no problem building sources in any you know area he wants to focus on and it really just became like kind of a friendship where we were just talking on IM message about going to the to the gym you know and like jokes about Apple stuff like the community and everything like and and so what I ended up doing from that was while I was um disc caretaking from my granny was like I I put up a um a Squarespace site and it was like it was called not 9to5mac.com you know Mark Gman at 95 Ma at the time and it's was like I'm I'm just going to take like the Tweet idea of like parody of like the onion satirical you know but for apple and Technology kind of stuff that like you've got to be in it to get it and like Mark got it and then just do that in like you know paragraphs instead of like 140 characters and so I did that and I was like literally just writing for Mark Gman to make him laugh and like his you know response was always like over the top just it it was rewarding to me it was like healing to me was like you know somebody gets me you know this connection and so um I think uh Mark Mark was talking to Seth onear our boss and he was like um change the name of the site we don't like the name not nm.com good domain name but not a good site name for the site you know if you're 95 Mac you don't like it um the association and so I changed it to um Apollo report.com and um just kept doing it for a little while and um eventually it was like I mean Seth could see like okay well you've you know in so many so many words like you've got writing experience and I bypass the whole like I want to be a journalist when I grow up and like I want to you know write in the newspaper about politics or whatever I'm interested in too um you know like I I actually have this job that I can do now so um it was it was it was amazing like I got offered to do uh just copy editing um and and I was not like working anywhere at the time so it was like income and I think I was making more than I was at the Apple Store because it was you know quote unquote fulltime and I could do that while I was caretaking for my granny you know there were times when I was like you know relocating and we're going over to the cancer center for chemo and um but it was all in all it was like you know I could I could I think it was a great balance for me personally because it wasn't just like we were in this condo with like sickness and cancer and like you know sorrow and pain and fear it was like I go into my bedroom and it's like a portal into the internet of like self-expression and like producing something having a purpose of my own and so I would say like you know the the 10 months with my granny was just like so valuable to me absolutely incredible and it was made possible because you know like well I would say this it was possible either way but it was made better because of 9 to5 Mac and then when she passed away I would have just been like lost don't know what I'm going to do now um I would have been like without the Apple job at that time but instead I had you know April through November of working 9o5 Mac and I could I had income and I had money all the sudden like so what I was what I ended up doing was was moving back to south Mississippi and was talking with a girl I dated before like that I had broken up with when I moved away and we just kind of rekindled things and it was because of 9 to5 Mac that I was able to go from you know caretaking for my granny and you know through the end of her life to having continuity and you know copy editing for 95 Mac writing for 9 to5 Mac um kind of like living my dream to be a tech journalist and like learning as I go bypassing the whole like be a part of a newspaper or like School paper all that you know like you've got to earn your your way in um and just like got fast-tracked I mean joined April 1st of that year and in June I got to go to San Francisco for the first time to be in the city during WWDC and meet Markman in person in Shar hotel room and just like kick it and that was just it was just like a FastTrack to kind of a dream scenario and I will say like you know 11 years go goes by and like there's been a lot of turbulence you know marriage um two kids divorce pandemic um moving different times and like all these different scenarios like finding myself again but it's all like the three line through all of it is 9 to5 Mac has been there as my income and like my my purpose like workwise you know um and so like it's my origin story but it's also like just my story like the continuity is just it's just I mean a decade feels long but it's like it's also just like contained into like one experience so that's it man that that's well you're to be commended for like just your your willingness to take care of your grandma during that time because not everyone is willing to sacrifice for themselves like sacrifice their own wants and desires to be able to take care of someone um even if it's a family member I mean sadly sad to say but that's pretty that's pretty cool I have a lot of respect for you for that yeah thanks yeah and it's something that you're you'll never have regrets of something like that like ever yeah I mean if not for that situation I do not know where I would have ended up you know what I mean like I wasn't going to go from Sears at the University of South Mississippi um to to five Mac I don't think like I was I was reading like Gizmodo and the iPhone 4 leak and and and a lot of scen that and like watching SE that video podcast um you know and like so that was an interest which is like you know eventually your interest you know hopefully become something to do with your work and like your interest if you got like the right amount of experience interest and talent I guess then like that's a good combination for ending up where you need to be but I couldn't have planned it any better I mean you know it's good so what what is your day-to-day like what's your day-to-day workflow now yeah uh 9 to5 so um I like what I like about 95 Mac is like there's it's remote it's always been remote even before the pandemic and through the pandemic and after it's like we I've always worked from wherever I live or am um and and there's also been structure of of you know when I was on the East Coast it was literally 9 a.m. to 5: p.m. and now inal time for the most of my career at 8:00 to 4: but it's like you know I've got friends who like work from home and it's just sort of you don't have hours so your hours are all of your hours and you just try to manage it but it's like it's super structured like I you know I wake up and um take the kids to school um get them ready kind of like chaos you know for an hour and a half and then like hopefully some Big Apple news isn't break during that time um cuz if so I'll miss out on it but like once the kids are at school um come back empty house and like I'm just for the next 8 hours I've got um you know like keep Slack open keep Twitter open you know um watch for you know watch my inbox watch messages like look for look for stories um think of things like just it's kind of cool like if you enjoy just sitting and thinking about Apple stuff and Technology like to to be able to make that a living like my job right now is to think of something interesting you know and and how can I write it in a way that maybe people think is cool I don't know you know but that yeah that's it yeah that that's what I appreciate number one the structure like when when I came to 9 to5 um that's one of the things that struck me the most is just like the structure of it it was something that I wasn't expecting but it was really nice it was refreshing to have that sort of structure and then the ability to to like come up with your own ideas that is uh that's something I love about it it's just like there's no one micromanaging you m um it's like you have a freedom of expression freedom of creativity um but you still work hard yeah um there's still a lot of work but it's like it's it's really unique it's a unique place it's unlike any place I've ever worked at before yeah it's unlike Sears it is UN definitely in the early days like I know the the lack of like someone telling you what to do right now was a little hard for me not because I couldn't do it but because I didn't know that I had permission to kind of like do my thing without asking and I remember early on there was that Meme before memes were a thing I gu it's like it was on Vine it was kind of viral before it was viral but it was the woman at the Apple Store saying Apple Care told me you know whatever she like had the stroller and she was in the Apple Store screaming like Apple Care said and somebody sent that video to me and it was before like it went viral and I put it in Hip chat at the time and didn't say like I'm going to post this or like should we post I just put it there like waiting for someone to give me permission to write like to post it and it went unnoticed and then like 6 weeks later it went viral and I was like man I could have could have like been you know part of making that go viral six weeks ago and like obviously the interest was there in that like you know kind of like funny clip and um I think that was a lesson for me and like you know just go with your gut and you've got permission to do things like you don't have to um you know hint about I kind of want to do this thing kind of do this you know you just like the best thing to do is just like you know take your idea and get it out as fast as possible and if it's cool it's cool if it's not like you know move on to the next thing that's a cool story nice to to get some background on your history with 9 to5 and just the day-to-day workflow now recently this isn't the first podcast you've like a sort of specialty podcast you've had you've had one with the Apple watch um and now you started one for Vision Pro but before we talk about that I wanted just to get your like your overall experience with the Vision Pro because it's a little bit unique sure it is yeah Vision Pro um first thing I will say is it's very expensive and I I don't have one like because um I would say like um as a single dad with two kids it's very hard to prioritize and um you know so there's that and so the idea with with with visioners the podcast that I started is is like if I can make money directly from talking about Apple Vision Pro then that can justify buying it and and covering it even better otherwise it's like maybe I'll write about it or not you know and it's mainly just because I want to enjoy it myself you know so that's like my strategy a little bit um but Apple Vision Pro like um I I I went to the Apple Store in New Orleans on the day that it was in stores and you could like show up and do first come first serve appointments and I went with a friend of mine uh named Jacob and we both were like you know we're Big Apple nerds and we're like let's try out this new thing and it's going to be incredible and we were the first two in line and he ended up buying one without planning on it because he just was so blown away by it and he was like I'll probably return it in a week just want to see what it's like to work with it um and he works remote as well and he ended up keeping it because like it's his main way to multitask he in in his home office he had uh or has like this 43in curved super wide Monitor and then one more above that so it's like a lot of screen real estate and takes up a lot of his room and just it but it's still contained within that like rectangle and with with Vision Pro like he's just like wow anywhere I go is like my home office plus more like it's just you know and and so we did a lot of like just kind of airplaying what he saw through his Vision Pro you know and like me trying out his Vision Pro um but during the demo I had a little bit of an issue where like my my glasses are the my right eye is like needs too much correction for Zeiss to make a lens for it yet um so I just went in kind of blind uh like I've got 2080 Vision without glasses and 2040 with glasses so I was using the 2080 experience and it was just at first it was like impossible to use because it wasn't calibrated to my eyes yeah and that was like a critical step once we calibrated it then I could use it it was just like you know not as sharp and clear as possible but um once I was like actually driving it with my eyes and my fingers and it was like okay here we go this is cool now um and so I just think like Vision Pro in general you know it's it's pricey you know but if if you can get around that if you just judge the technology itself it is a very cool piece of technology and it's not a gaming console it's not like the Nintendo Wii or even like DS of headsets in the way that others can feel like you know you put it on and you're like okay this is like if if the company that makes the MacBook Pro made a VR headset or you know mix reality headset this is what it would be and that's what it is so you know I think like I've seen people actually wear glasses with it but kind of risk like messing up your glasses or the the the the very expensive headset um and so went to a lasic consultation and the doctor was like no your eyes are too bad like we're not going to be able to get good enough to my liking and he was like my partner will do it but not me and I was like well you know do I'm not going to do it um but he said try scleral contact lenses that's what I was going to ask what about contacts so I tried contacts before I were him in college whenever I was like you know trying to you know attract a girlfriend and uh keep a girlfriend and you know not end up alone um you know like after that it's like oh this this kind of a hassle and I can see better with glasses in contacts anyway so um for about 10 years I haven't worn contacts and uh tried them them last year like before Vision Pro was even a thing and it was just like my my motivation there was I want to be able to buy you know a pair of Ray bands and not have to have prescription lenses you know and have like different sunglasses and um and and I did not like the experience like it burned it hurt uh I couldn't see very well and I was like going to a trip in New Orleans one weekend and like wore them there and before I got there I pulled over and took them out and put my glasses back on and that was Lot time more contacts so that was great but it wasn't the scleral contact lenses that have been mentioned to me and from what both readers like um we we've got some smart readers in like different fields of you know like there there's this one fell from California who's like the eye doctor um and he's like you know here's basically it was like thousands of dollars of like an appointment and in time for free to say like you know you may have this situation going on and ask your doctor about this stuff right here and try this out and and it sounds like scal contact lenses if I if um if I if I get those I might be able to see better than with glasses um so that's and I think that means like you know they're comfortable and then I've also got like peripheral vision where I can see you know left and right and um yeah so I'm going to try that my my next appointment is April 22nd so it's later this month um that's when uh Insurance kicks back in you know like the onee period is up and so I can make that appointment and try it out so um if Vision Pro ends up being like the Catalyst for finding a solution without glasses with contacts that work that I had no idea about before that'll be pretty cool despite all that then the cool thing is that you have access to a Vision Pro like it's it's not like you're you just you started a Vision Pro podcast and you've you've don't have the ability to use it at all which isn't the case so you did start this new podcast visioners what was your motivation besides the fact that you wanted to earn some money for a Vision Pro yeah no it really is like okay if this thing is is I think Vision as a platform has legs like I think it um in the way that the watch is like it's very much an accessory I mean it isn't like a a platform on its own that you can replace your Mac with you know maybe maybe some phone functions but you're not going to like do all your work from your from your Apple watch but you can with Vision Pro I believe like you know I mean if you like it's got at least on paper it's got the specs you know it's got more RAM than my MacBook Air and it's got the same processor as my MacBook Air and like it's it's wild um so it can be your computer I think the challenge there then is like the laptop you can just pop it out in lots of different situations where putting on a headset might not be the thing to do that's the biggest thing for me like it's to me the it's not the the the like software or lack thereof it's not the like even the pass through isn't perfect it's not the fact that you can only have one external screen although there you know there are other third party apps that let you do more it's the barrier to entry like every time I want to use it it's so much like for instance your iPhone you pick it up you unlock and you're immediately using it your Mac you open the display you're immediately using it more or less um but the Vision Pro it's like I have to boot it every single time like and that's the biggest not just that but it's like unzipping the the uh the pouch putting it on connecting the power adapter putting the power adapter make it Ser secure it so I don't knock it off and break it like it's just there's just so much mental baggage that I feel comes with The Vision Pro which is unlike any other Apple device that we've ever used to me that's the biggest barrier and it's the thing that makes it's like I'm sitting here on my couch do I want to use my Vision Pro yeah but I have to go through all these steps just to get and then it takes like 60 seconds to boot on top of that so what do you think about that here's what I think I think that um I think the future is Wireless I don't know why we're we're not making apple isn't making new products with wireless charging airpods Max it's got lightning we want USBC but really if it had like wireless charging if I had some like mag safe or even just like a dock that you put it in and it charges then they' always be charged and I wouldn't care about what the port is on it um if the Vision Pro had wireless charging even if it's like has the battery attached to a cable you know but like you when you're not using it you put it on your desk or on the shelf or wherever your nightstand on a charging dock that's just like as easy as putting your phone on Max safe or your watch on the puck then it would just be ready to go andever you pick it up and because it's that plug it up thing that's like I think that's a barrier for it just being ready to go whenever you you use it and if you just have it on your desk you know I think if you don't shut it down like it it like has like Phantom battery and it'll it'll eventually drain um for the the quest 3 you know they sent the Met sent the quest 3 and then I bought the elite strap I don't know what you call it but it's got battery built in and it basically doubles the better life from you know around 2 hours to around 4 hours and that that threshold seems to make a big difference um because you know 2 hours can be a little more a little less but 4 hours seems like I I've used it intentionally um with three browser windows I've spent a whole work day like writing stories in the quest 3 with slack in a browser window and and tweet deck XPR in a browser window and then everything else in the middle of a browser window with apple music in a tab on the web uh iCloud mail um Gmail for work plus like whatever I'm browsing in WordPress and I've and I did that with the controller just one of the controllers and then like swipe typing on the keyboard by you know clicking and waving the the wand around that was pretty good and that required like being wired in to do a full day like that um but I really think I think like why I think that's like like why are there premium Apple products that don't have wireless charging you know I feel like for me alone like that's like to have it just be ready to go like if it's down have it just be slow charging and if it's you know pick it up ready to go yeah and and and a standby like I I wish there was like just maybe just a little battery in the thing to to save your settings to save where you were so it doesn't have to completely boot every single time cuz if you keep it plugged up it drains um and yeah so that's the biggest it's just a barrier to entry but despite that I it's a great product I have a lot of fun with I've kept mine so yeah when my friend was on like day 12 I was like what are you going to do it's a great consumption device but it's also a pretty good productivity device in especially thinking outside the box like with your podcast the the recent episode talked about a a Music Creation app it's an impressive piece of work for sure I mean that's one way people use max is Like Music Creation you know and if you can bring that same capability to you know Vision Pro in the spatial environment where you can just have like lots of stuff around you you know I mean I think like the the fact that it even works at all is like and and you can have it work with with mini controllers you know with with an actual like physical keyboard you know piano um it's pretty cool because you don't have port you know and it's like just to be able to pull that off is just pretty cool like pretty futuristic I think and the thing about ano Galaxy that caught my attention I it was in the initial list of apps from Apple when they did a press release but I just didn't catch it and then when I saw it like actually be released and shown off it's like whoa that's that's a different experience it isn't like a 2d flat window you know it's floating in space it's like the thing I wrote about was like when you're when you're creating music a lot of it is feeling a lot of it is environment like it's half and half um if you want to capture the feeling of like whatever it is like you know space and you want to capture that like atmosphere or um something like on the ground like having those visuals around you kind of feeds into the mood and like you you have to like convince yourself that you're there to create it through music and if you can transport yourself to any space like that with Vision Pro and then create music in that environment that you create create it's like that's it's kind of a like a shortcut to you know to creativity like it's really cool yeah and I think that's a big bonus because like with with the Mac yeah you can create you can create music on your Mac right but to have tangible like feedback that like for instance with a midi controller to have it in in space to be able to see the instruments or the synthesizer whatever the case may be in space it's a different type of feel and Music Creation in that way just feels more natural to me like for inst I have I I heard on the podcast that he actually worked with what's his name is it Garrett yeah so he wor he worked with Roger Lyn who's like invented the NPC which I I use the NPC all the time and making beats and and I love this thing it's um it's a legendary I mean it changed the game period like NPC changed the game um and that was cool just to hear that history there yeah there's something about having the ability to have tangible like physical controls and then you have that with the like the sort of augmented experience of Vision Pro specific to that episode like the Apple Vision Pro is super interesting but then I think what was the bonus for me was that g Bev was super interesting like his his origin story of like you you know interested in music interested in technology interested um you know and like like futuristic ways to make music I mean he worked with the instrument um he basically like like pre iPad and Vision Pro like what are the physical versions of something different like that and he did that and then when I was researching for the episode I found where he was demoing the anog iPad app that's like I mean 2010 and he's he doesn't work for MOG music then he's he's now like he leads um you know an Moog and those projects but um he he was just a consumer just like here's a cool thing I like iPads it's brand new I like Moog here's a new app from Moog for the iPad and to see like you know fast forward all these years later he leads this project for you know kind of I mean like The Vision Pro has roots on the iPad and it's kind of like that expression of an operating system but spatial uh it was pretty cool pretty cool yeah I thought that was very interesting like just to go from a fan to like leading leading the project was pretty cool um so where can people find or like obviously if they want to subscribe to the podcast how do they do that yeah it's it's an apple podcast and I don't think I've really put it anywhere else yet but I mean there's an RSS feed but if you search Apple podcast for visioners you you will find it if you search for 95 Mac you should find it in that list and it's got very cool artwork made by our colleague U Michael Bower and he he that was that was part of it for me was like okay I got a name have a premise have a list of guests who I want to talk to but like the packaging is is a big part of it for me and like that once he made the artwork for it and then he gave me like a long description of like why he made what decisions he made I was like okay sold and now I have to actually like make this thing real dude that artwork is one of the best pieces of podcast artwor like that's what actually initially attracted me to like I need to listen to this because it was like the artwork it was it was awesome it's like dude is super talented so then like the choice was which one do I use for like the official podcast artwork and I think I went with with white background you made the right choice yeah it is Super Fresh yeah so um you just one last thing like you were talking at the beginning um about things and I think things was a sponsor um for the podcast yeah so that's awesome um one of my favorite apps of all time how do you use things is it like something you use dayto day is it like your first thing you do when you wake up and and do you use the getting thing like David Allen's whole methodology or have you kind of like created your own system back to my origin story mark Gman in 2013 was a things user and turned me on to things and you know I bought like every version of it and it's just been like thinking of an idea of something to do is easy doing it takes time and there's a million distractions along the way but if you can just like capture the if you can have a system that you can just quickly capture your idea and then have a catalog of those ideas eventually you're going to come you're going to come to a Time in your life like you know in your day or your week or your month whatever where you're like what do I do today you know and you know this like I I realized by using things like there's a million things that you can do in a day but you've just got to pick one and then and then that's the first step to you know making something every day and that's what things have been for me is like it's like kind of personal like that like you know I never don't know what I can do it's it's work it's family it's Hobbies it's you know it's it's like and I I talk about you know when when we did the ad spot they were going to write talking points for me and I was like what I pitched first though was was let me just kind of go freestyle because just do a personal endorsement because I do have used it for 10 years plus and the the key for me that I always think about is like if somebody like Deleted things and like erased my database and it wasn't backed up I would be a little lost and like man I had a lot of plans like you know it's like it's like an outline of like you know it's like a road map you know and um that that always kind of feels like yeah that's that's the value in it for me is is I you know what I what I put there and you know you can look back at your log book and see everything you've captured and it's like okay and if you feel like you haven't done much lately you're like oh there it is yeah and it's just nice to get the stuff like I think David Allen calls it open Loops like it's it's stuff that's that takes up brain Cycles in your head like for instance you know you have to do something and if you don't write it down and capture it then it's just always around there spinning and it's taking up like you're always worried about it in the back of your head whereas when you write it down you get it off your mind and you free up that brain cycle to do other things and I think that's the most valuable part and then the ability to break down a task like you say I want to make a video on my studio well yeah but there there's a million other steps involved in that and just kind of like breaking each of those steps down that's a project not a task exactly yeah you know I I I asked them to be like the premier sponsor cuz just like I love the company and and the people that are great and everything and um I and I went to write do do the ad copy for it because I did say I wanted a personal endorsement like I could have just like spoken out loud but and or typed in the computer like the copy but I was kind of like I wanted do this more naturally and so I use a Kindle scribe paper tablet it's 10 in it's e in it has a pen that you write on feels like paper you know without a screen protector and um you know has USBC and then like GLS for weeks on a charge and that's like my notebook and so I wrote start I was I was in bed I started writing like you know what I want to say and I wrote it out on that and then I read it from that and it felt kind of cool it's like that's before the iPhone and the mac and my life and the iPad Etc um you know we were in school with with uh pen and paper and I found that that was a very creative use of my like just pen and paper was like a different tool than than the confines of whatever app you're using but pen and paper like the physical objects today I have a hard time keeping up with or it's just not with me whenever I want it um and so with the Kindle scribe I found that it it lets me do that writing out part of you know I mean that's part of learning is like writing can be helpful for that and um the Kindle scribe is like I I start writing in the margins and like you know drawing pictures too and like just Express it's almost like a free form on on Apple platforms was just like a physical device to use it to that wasn't the iPad like the you know if if there's like this crazy remember that the iPad will have a matte version of the screen as an option um if they did that and I'd be really interested in that okay so here's my thought on that is like an apple pencil and a matte screen that seems like either they would have to come up with some different sort of tip so it wouldn't damage the screen because like for instance the pro display xdr or the studio display you can't even wipe it with a cloth regular cloth so I'm like how's that are they going to put the mat surface beneath the the top display like how's it I was just wondering like how's that going to actually work in practice and if if it's more of a mat for blocking Reflections versus a mat for the tactile sort of feedback you yeah um I think the I mean if I had to prioritize it would be tle feedback over the reflective issue um and just like slipperiness you know avoiding that kind of thing and I've used a paper like screen protector with an iPad and apple pencil really good you know um but e Inc is like is is wild like it's this old technology that just keeps getting better and um I like it a lot yeah well thank you so much Zach I appreciate you taking the time like you didn't have to do this so U with Fernando out and so nice to catch up with you and we definitely got to have you on again when Fernando's here and we'll all we'll all get together and talk maybe when that nanotexture iPad comes out we'll talk about that yeah yeah for sure for sure for sure let's let's make that happen hopefully that'll be sooner than later all right man thank you all right man I hope you have a wonderful day and again it was nice talking to you again where can people find your work you know always on 95 Mac um I'm on social at Apollo Zac a o l o Zac all right we'll catch you next time Zach thanks so much man thanks jaff oh\n"