The Apple Machine: A New Era in Tech Hiring

In recent years, there has been a significant shift in the way tech companies approach hiring. Gone are the days where having a four-year college degree was the only requirement for a job at a top tech company like Apple. According to a report by Code.org and Human Resource Machine, half of Apple's US hires in 2018 lacked four-year college degrees. This is a significant departure from the traditional model of education being a prerequisite for a career in tech.

The guarantee that a college degree would lead to a job has been eroded, and companies are now looking at a more holistic approach to hiring. This means that candidates without traditional degrees can still be considered for roles within the company. Apple's decision to hire employees without four-year degrees is a testament to this shift in thinking.

The breakdown of roles at Apple reveals that many of these hires come from non-traditional backgrounds. Employees range from sales specialists, managers, and Genius Bar staff, all of whom have successfully learned skills for programming and other areas of tech through various means. This highlights the importance of continuous learning and upskilling in the tech industry.

For example, Lambda School is an online platform that provides students with access to coding education and career support. While it's not a traditional university experience, it offers a viable alternative for those looking to break into the tech industry. The fact that companies like Apple are embracing this type of learning model suggests that they recognize the value in diverse skill sets.

The changing landscape of education is also having an impact on the UK. Until recently, University degrees were free or subsidized by the government. However, with the introduction of tuition fees, many students are now faced with significant debt and a loss of vocational training opportunities. This has led to a shift towards more vocationally driven courses, where students can learn specific skills relevant to their chosen field.

However, this shift also means that the traditional model of education being essential for getting a job is no longer as effective. Many graduates are finding that their degrees do not guarantee employment in their chosen field. Instead, companies like Apple are focusing on hiring candidates with relevant skills and experience, regardless of whether they have a degree or not.

San Diego, California, has been named as one of the top locations for tech jobs in the US. Qualcomm, a leading tech company based there, employs thousands of people in the area. However, Apple's promise to create 1,200 new tech jobs in San Diego by 2022 is a significant development. While it remains to be seen whether these jobs will actually materialize, the fact that Apple is making such a commitment suggests that they recognize the importance of having a strong presence in the region.

As we move forward, it's clear that the way companies approach hiring and education is going to change. The rise of online learning platforms like Lambda School and the decline of traditional university degrees mean that there are now more options for people looking to break into the tech industry. However, this shift also requires a new mindset from employers, who must recognize the value in diverse skill sets and the importance of continuous learning.

Ultimately, the Apple machine represents a new era in tech hiring, one that prioritizes skills over degrees. As we look to the future, it's exciting to think about what other changes we can expect to see in this area. With companies like Apple leading the way, it's clear that the industry is moving towards a more inclusive and merit-based approach to hiring.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome back to the Apple Insider podcast with me Victor and William Apple I see what you did there I'm not going to say that I liked it but I didn't dis like it reminds me of Johnny apple seed which uh isn't a terribly well-known story in the UK and I've just kind of vaguely heard the name he planted some trees and I presume they were apple trees and this is the story but you know it's just a piece of historical call back I'll take that yeah very good should I call you figa Apple I'm I'm suddenly not sure what the polite thing to do is I'm not sure either okay that that would imply that we're brothers and well I certainly feel that sort of familial that that fraternal relationship with you I don't know that that would work okay you're happy to extend the the the the nice part but strictly clear designs clear links clear divisions for any legal issues that might ensue okay thanks well given the amount of trouble you get into absolutely I wish you were kidding about that yes all right and you thought you were when you call from the precinct I will answer right okay yeah I was going to ask how you are but I think I can tell uh and I'm fine too mostly so good good what's what's happening what's going on well in in the past you and I spoke about wiwn and about the Indian market and we were talking about that in times about how India is is kind of a an interesting trouble spot for Apple where they keep trying to sell phones but their phones are very expensive and so they can either sell the old phone like the se but it's old and people recognize that it's old or they can sell new phones that are too expensive for that market yes but I mean they could make cheaper phones we talked about Apple so you're right that's well and and there are compromises right when you start making a cheaper phone you're giving up on something and apple doesn't really like to give up on something I'm not I'm not going to characterize the whole country but i' said that historically there is a sense that that negotiation appropriate in many settings in India and and this this is is changing a little bit but of course apple is coming from the traditional perspective as far as they're going that know this is a firm sale and it's this price now wiwn has has been known for their production lowcost models that were for sale in India in the past they built the iPhone SE and the 6S for the local market and they built them in India so they would save on import costs the company has increased their investment in India back in January we heard that they were doing 30 billion rupees in additional investment in the region uh we don't even know exactly how that's going to be used but it it looks as if all of this could be so that Apple could go ahead and and shift production of the iPhone to India to reduce dependence on China it's one of the few options available to to foxcon to move into who's also said to be looking to production in Vietnam so doing that kind of thing would would also reduce costs further for iPhone sales in India so wion's current production capacity isn't enough to cover the consumer demand in India they're relying on Imports to make up the bulk of the purchases in the market so wistron increasing their investment in the area foxcon looking at as a place to expand all are good news for India and also good news for Apple not to pay import taxes if they can produce the devices in country all follows makes absolute sense let's do that yes Y and you know if the uh if the US China trade War continues then that also makes good sense uh yes yes uh I think in a similar way we got to think here brexit may have come up once or twice we have a lot of things where companies are just leaving the UK even if brexit suddenly reversed and didn't happen I don't think those companies are going to move back they've spent their money they've gone I think as we're seeing all these companies move around even if the US China tariff War business calms down I think they're going to stay spread around wherever they are it just doesn't seem economically sensible to do it otherwise doesn't it creating instability creating situation of economic fear has results right it has real costs and you're you're absolutely right I think when you when you uh uh inspire a company to seek headquarters elsewhere that you you you'd have to do a lot to create an incentive for them to come back yeah but in this I mean uh it's bad in brexit as far as apple and production concerns it all sounds good to me anything that makes something locally has got to be great so actually Yay for all of this no yeah cool all right then yeah why not so you know you have accused me in the past rather of caring about health and and caring about health monitoring accused um I think I've correctly identified that's I'll go as far as that I'm not disinterested in health but you you've got a long track record of really following all the details so I find it fascinating when you know there a tiny Health story but you know why it's important I love this stuff so what's happened healthily this week well so there are signs that say that the the future MacBook models could offer some of the same health and fitness tracking functions that the Apple watch provides that you they could place a A biosensor in the case near the trackpad that the user could access while typing on the keyboard and just thinking about it this comes from a patent application and we know that patent applications may or may not turn into things that are actual products but thinking about it it makes sense many people who use their laptops do so well seated would you agree yes okay and sitting is not exactly the healthiest thing for person it's pretty good but I guess okay yes well I mean it's comfortable but it's it's in terms of healthwise you're meant to be up and moving and you know one of the things the Apple watch does is tell you periodically that you need to go and have some activity that you need to get up and move right yeah and so they could embed a sensor that goes ahead and makes contact with your wrist as you're typing and catches your your heart rate from the Palm rest oh see sorry I was thinking what is it going to do monitor how fast I'm typing but you mean actual Palm rests would make the same connection that the back of my watch does okay suddenly yeah yeah right so you know you'd be able to detect the heart rate the respiration rate the uh the the pulse oxygen level the uh blood pressure and blood volume and the typing speed yeah well that's that's already easy to detect but you know you could be able to detect the the water content in the user so you know you can grab a lot of different measurements out of this and obviously L if you're seated and working and that's bad for your health then we can see these measurements and it can you know tell you get up and be active because and you know it can tell you the kinds of things that the watch tells you right I have to did you really just say detect the water content in me yeah that's one of the things you can do if you have an infrared LED light source you can detect water content in the user which allows you to increase the number of other things you can measure based on that okay I'm a GOG at the are you scared you're a little scared huh I I safest thing is to say yes it's a more complex H than that but yes okay all right I mean that's astounding that you can do that I take it I'm just that's just you to me I haven't heard that before has it been around for a while or something but it well some of this has but the the idea is that putting this in a laptop where you're sitting and typing for long periods of times putting in the Palm rest is a good idea because you're using it and you're in contact for a long period of time you the other place that're putting health related sensors is uh potentially in the second generation of airpods oh yes that's true I've written about that that makes sense as well I could see that M okay well they're certainly not the first to put that kind of thing in in a wireless headphone uh broggie a couple of years ago put pulse in that and LG did it in a wired headset and it makes sense because if you're actually out there using them for Fitness well you don't want to have to to have it attached anywhere else you've already got them in your ears they're already making contact why not M so the I I think the thing here is that it's about making Health more holistic making it be a part of everything and that's that's a good thing but if this means already the watch does a lot and uh I don't know how much the iPhone does it obviously records all this data the MacBook could do all these things uh is that me leave the Mac out no health benefits on a Mac at all well the MacBook is a Mac true okay Mac Mini then the um the legendary uh Mac Pro yes the Mac the Mac Mini and the iMac Pro and those things would be left out probably I'm looking for more reasons to buy an iMac you see and you're not really helping me yeah no I'm not Apple you know is is looking to increase their exposure in the health platform right they have they have over 50 medical doctors spread throughout the company they're building these these got these Health Labs this is an area that's not going away for Apple they are clearly invested in this yes I'm surprised this week we heard this the new website that they own privacy is important I would have expected being healthy is quite important too. could have been in there as well those seem to be the two thrusts of this of this technology company security and health are in there yeah but you know I like both of these things absolutely y I do too now of course as we're talking about new MacBooks one of the things we ought to talk about is the idea of an arm-based MacBook really has that come around again do you think every few years is it now looking a bit more yes it's now looking a bit more likely because I remember hearing some story that somebody in Intel told a client that it was going to happen so if intel thinks it's happening uh is that the story here that it's even more likely that is the one I don't know the details though of who was saying it and how disappointed they sounded so yeah it's it's been rumored and I I'm hopeful because I think it's a very interesting development and I imagine it puts fear Into the Heart of Intel yes I would imagine so I I'm interested in so many things because uh this obviously the technology which I think you would understand more than I do there's the programming side which I have some experience of but also I just remember the whole business of moving uh from the 68,000 years into the power PC and then poers PC into Intel I given how other companies go to lengths to avoid this kind of move Apple's you know getting a bit Twitchy about this done it before do it again yeah be fun to see what happens well the the power C power PC move was a really risky one was that the first because that operating system was not well it was not really portable as an operating system goes and it was very very difficult to make that leap uh that was the one that happened just as the company was on its last legs then Steve Jobs had come in and it it was one that was barely pulled off the move to Intel was significantly easier because next which started on 68k was able to run on Intel they'd already done that work oh I see right I this is I Let's test your knowledge of Mac hardware one of my absolute favorite Macs to ever work on uh was one of the very first Power PC ones and it was a quite a quadr like flat box uh and the monitor had speakers built in at an angle for for it it was just I was in an office with a load of PCS and there was my Mac it looked great and I loved it and I loved it so much I can't remember the name of it can you positive like like an 8100 AV or something like that or a I don't know or a 7600 kind of hoping a bell would ring when you said something like that but it hasn't yet oh well tell you in a second yeah keep talking we're both going to look this up aren we at least I'll recognize it when I see it hopefully what was your uh favorite Mac from the power PCA I can't believe I just said that but okay do you have one you are ridiculous you know that right yes oh I think it might be a 6100 power Macintosh 6100 I got a picture of that that looks like thing I'm thinking of I remember the keyboard is great as well I really like that keyboard I mean the LC 520 was kind of an unusual looking one but that was again a 60 K not a power Mac right well me and 68k we don't talk anymore no that's that's a nice little diversion but you were mentioning privacy 10 seconds ago yes it's constantly on my mind about every 10 seconds I think about it uh is there something on your mind every 10 seconds as well that sounded wrong so so I want to tell you we' had privacy come up in recent weeks and there was uh a Facebook story that I'm going to tell you about really quickly so Zuck Mark Zuckerberg is embarking on a privacy focused road map they are shifting away from the public Focus that have landed them in multiple scandals he said public social networks will continue to be very important in people's lives for connecting with everyone you know discovering new people ideas and content and giving people a voice more broadly people find these valuable every day and there are still a lot of useful services to build on top of them but now with all the ways people also want to interact privately there's also an opportunity to build a simpler platform that's focused on privacy first and that they will increasingly shift to private encrypted Services where people can be confident that what they say together to each other stay secure and their messages and content won't stick around forever okay well you called him Zuck you're on first syllable terms with him and I'm not that clear this sounds like everything he's said several times before and the uh undertoe of it is that everything now isn't in any way secure private encrypted yeah well and what's sort of is Instagram is not Facebook is not and what they're going to do is they're going to make all of these Services integrate with each other and talk to each other and you have to actually opt out to uh avoid having them talk to each other okay I'm wondering how many people out there in the real world know that Facebook owns uh either of those for it I mean I didn't until probably yeah until you actually I think you told me about it and like I remember gasping but I do that from time to time yeah well so the the thing is is that it wasn't that long ago you and I were talking about how Facebook had a data harvesting VPN app yes that had broken Apple's Enterprise rules ah that small thing yes Clos down all their software for a bit yes yes but they've learned their lesson now have they again yes I don't know how we'll know uh that they've learned it until it goes wrong again sometime but so what makes a data breach the worst breach of all time the worst of all time what to you would make the a data breach the worst data breach of all time uh if somebody could see my reading history in the Apple bookstore my Netflix Q uh some of my Apple music favorite playlists I'd be embarrassed about uh oh I suppose you know Bank details so if you're going to clean somebody out you're not going to start with my bank account are you so what about you is there something more well in in America we have something called a social security number of course you did which is is issued by the government you have a government ID don't you we have a government somewhere yes uh we have tax ID codes and things like that they're nowhere near common commonly needed to and you have you have NHS records right you have National Health Service records yes okay now losing one of those would be bad right uh I certainly see in the states that would be a big thing here it would be inconvenient but seriously the number of times we have to use a National Insurance number as it's called Uh hardly that matters so yeah I wouldn't noticed for quite a while this the problem the the social security number ends up being used as an ID number for a lot of things and it gets tied to our credit reports and our credit history and so it's um you know one of the ways that that when you apply to purchase something they check your credit or when you apply for a job they check your credit to see if you're responsible enough to be an employee or see if you're responsible enough to to purchase the thing you're trying to purchase sure right and if you have bad credit then you may not get hired over someone who does have good credit right never thought about it from employment side but that makes sense yes okay U it's it's really frustrating it's difficult because if you're trying to get back on your feet you can't get employment to get back on your feet it's a social problem right now to that end there are Credit Agencies in the US there's there's Equifax and some of these others right and they maintain the credit reports and when someone run your credit they run it with one of those agencies and and you know you're you're entitled in the US to run your credit with all of them once a year so you can make sure that what they have on you is correct okay yes similar thing here yeah okay so losing a social security number would be bad losing 145 million of them would be very bad did you look where you last put them no I can't find them so breach is a podcast that takes you inside the world's big biggest hacks how they're done who does them and what's really at stake when your private data is compromised and this season they're investigating the worst breach ever by Equifax and so if you wanted to you could listen to season 2 of breach the Equifax story this time it's personal subscribe to breach that's B Rea in your podcast app right now I I I'm going to do that because I think it's really interesting to hear what they find out about it I I I am very skeptical of the credit reporting agencies I'm kind of surprised that they haven't been replaced already by someone with a blockchain but sorry I'm just typing in breach podcast into my browser to make sure I've got it there there it is oh I'm having that okay um yes I understand okay uh but you're not going to tell me anything more about the 149 million whatever it was well I mean this was the last last year they they were exposed to having let out 145 million Social Security numbers they were breached and that was it was a little more complicated than that because it appeared as if there were people that were aware of it be when it happened that and they didn't release it until much later and so they were selling stock and things like that based on this infiniter information oh okay that's different wow okay right it's it's bad Every Which Way coming and going yes right well don't do that then don't lose all of them okay no don't lose all of them so yeah it's it's really problematic and you know what we do over here is we end up trying to place freezes on the credit so that people can't add things to them yeah I've had that here too yes but it's uh only as effective as as it can be right sorry my mind nightmareish because you know you're you're applying for a job let's say again and they want to do a credit run on you and they don't tell you which agency they're going to pull from and so you've got freezes at four agencies and they're like yeah we can't run your credit you can't be hired and you know sometimes they'll tell you that and sometimes they just won't and they won't hire you so you have to preemptively figure out which ecy they're going to use and unfreeze it just for that one or unfreeze all of them and be vulnerable during that time when you're trying to be hired right how you can which one they'll use well in in you know in my example um they really wanted to make the hire and so they tried three times and on the fourth one we unfroze the right account oh okay right that's got a want but if there were other exactly had there been other candidates that were just as strong that would have been it yeah well what a world we live in okay um I hope you whoever it was got whatever it was they were after and that all is fine now can you just tell me that all's fine now William Apple all is fine now okay let's not make that a thing okay oh all right all right now speaking about credit reporting and governments and things like that so Huawei is suing the US government they have filed a lawsuit right as you do as sue the entire government as as one does well no what so that's the suing the federal government is not that unusual you you tend to sue um you know you Su sue the government or you sue the Attorney General because they're acting on behalf of the government or something like so you'll read cases where where it says you know uh the party filing the lawsuit versus the um the person who happens to be the Attorney General at the time head of the justice department it's fairly common that's that part's not that unusual how common is winning that's difficult it happens I don't know that it happens quite a lot you we could have uh we could have one of my attorney friends T Greg duet who's been on this podcast before come on and talk about that if we wanted to okay I'm I am just curious to know because okay but uh what's making you say this now what's been happening well so huwe filed a lawsuit because they are not pleased with us government's purchasing ban on Huawei equipment oh yes okay so as a part of 20 8's National Defense authorization act which is a bill that goes through Congress pretty much every year it authorizes National Defense and then funding for it um they sometimes write in different requirements and different things in there and this this last year's got the notion that that they would limit government agency spending on certain products they prohibited certain telecommunications and video surveillance Services which restrict government agencies from purchasing equipment manufactured by huawe and ZTE and Huawei is saying that's unconstitutional that it is a a bill of attainer which is a legal term that says it's a legislative act that declares a person or prison is guilty of an act and punishes them without due process okay what are the odds of success well they're going to have to find a sympathetic court and they're going to have to present evidence and what the first question is is this a an act that declares them guilty of anything and punishes them without due process so what what are they being accused of being guilty of and then they're going to have to talk about that the the what they're saying is that Congress has repeatedly failed to produce any evidence to support their restrictions on Huawei products right what else is going on here I mean if the ODS of success are not great what's the benefit to them of making this suit F first of all they're Local Heroes in China they're Heroes and adding to that is that their CFO wanu Meg yeah is fighting extradition um from Canada to to the US right there they have charges for bank fraud wire fraud and violations of the international emergency economic Powers Act andac to commit money l oh these small things God people are so fuzzy yes yeah it's um it's part of the bigger fight is really what you're telling me I well multiple fronts I would say good phas now in addition to that there you know there's there's also prosecution alleged that Huawei conducted business operations in Iran through one of their um Affiliates skycom in violation of us sanctions on Iran and then lied about Partnerships and banking tied to that there are also charges that haa Personnel stole Trade Secrets relating to a T-Mobile robot called tappy sorry a T-Mobile robot called tappy yes and they sto trade secrets about the robot it was a secret but it isn't now well how the robot was made things like that they stole it right they stole the secet or at least let's be very clear they're alleged to have stolen the secet good point well caught I'm just thinking I would have kept the name a big secret as well if it was tappy but okay that's but that's T-Mobile not not doing yeah okay so so basically Hall is being quite busy these days what with that and the foldable phones their lawyers are going to do great right I actually I mean I know this is slightly off St but having said foldable phones to you having not seen either in the flesh I like the look of how one better than I do the Samsung one but uh there's a story this week on Apple Insider that actually I was involved um to do with Corning uh saying that they're working on foldable glass and this is this little image of glass that they've bent and it's just astounding that it can spring back again but it's still glass compared to the plastic or polymers I I have seen flexible glass in the past right I've seen this as a part of screen protectors where the demonstration was a a glass screen protector suspended at either end and a piston pushing on onto the center and showing the deflection and you could get a good 2 in of deflection before it broke okay which is an astounding amount it's a huge amount more than I would have imagined but is that the same as but it's not folding in half no it's not the same okay do you think this foldable stuff is just an expensive fad or what's going to happen next you have to think about use case right the the there are a couple difficulties the the phone form factor fits in our pockets mostly the form phone form factor is reachable by our hands mostly but there are times Where We crave larger screens clearly and so having a phone that collapses into being the form factor that fits in the pocket mostly and is reachable by our hands mostly but then can come out and expand into being something that's suitable for our eyes is is an interesting idea presuming that that's what we really need if that's the content we need if that's the size that we need I just kind of fancy one let's be absolutely clear about this U well the the biggest Factor besides does it actually work are is there content for it and is the operating system going to account for it right if if you've got an operating system that accounts for it but none of the apps are aware of it then it's junk if you've got an operating system that is aware of it but doesn't handle it well it's junk there there are a lot of things that have to come together for it to be useful really then by the sound of it what I'm waiting for is Apple to do it uh possibly yeah uh I don't know what they'll do Corning is interesting because Apple uses them all the time so Corning actually says they have shown foldable samples to companies one imagines that must include Apple um uh and if it is a glass case I I believe glass is better than the plastic polymers that's fine but when you say that about operating system and apps you know if Apple does this it'll do it completely there won't be apps no no there will be plenty of apps that straggle now Apple's app will get on board but you know getting app developers on board means that they'll be hit or missed that some of them will be available and launch day and some will straggle and some won't ever update at all I'm okay with that I think yeah as long as the for them to do it there there was a story I was reading last week or this week I was reading this week about people who wanted to fund a Kickstarter to create a fund to pay developers of classic IOS games to update their apps so they would continue to run actually can I stop you there because I wrote a story about that and I was talking with their PR people although that's exactly how I heard it that they were trying to get development to fund that what they now say is actually know they're self-funding they're doing it themselves what they want is to get the source code for these uh games and themselves develop them and get them I think I mean good luck to them that's slightly cheekier that's not exactly the holistic story I'd heard yeah I I think it's an Absolut great idea but until they tell us all the details I'm I'm really curious how it shakes out uh who gives you the source code who profits from any sales afterwards who has the rights I think they're underestimating the work and overestimating the demand so we'll see but I I love the idea so fingers crossed for them well so there's I mean it's important that classic games don't die and and this is part of you know the archive.org the internet archives mission is is besides preserving websites they also have an archive of classic games from many different computer systems and you know people say games come on why bother but I think there's an Artistry to them that that in terms of story in terms of user engagement in terms of pushing the limits of what systems were capable of at the time with 8bit graphics and 8bit music and that that art should not be lost I think whatever Gamers use now is what the rest of us come to use later so I'm interested for that so as a a writer I'm also I know people who write video games and they are so interesting about it but as it turns out I just personally I'm not much of a gamer are you um off and on I I have at different points throughout my life been heavily into it and then backed out and but but I I think that it really is an art form I I'm absolutely convinced of that and whether or not it appeals to you or engages you or captures your imagination in time is is down to a matter of taste and what you're willing to invest in in terms of time you know you might not be the person that says you're going to go and invest 2 hours listening to Opera at a performance you're not going to read the Operetta and you're not going to study the singers but other people do it doesn't make the art form any less valid Oh yes totally absolutely so uh preservation uh I'm absolutely for that although it just occurs to me I've noticed I have one game on my iPhone it's Sudoko uh suduku app it's on my iPhone it's on my iPad I play it quite a lot but that's it um yeah that's you gone off AG Birds then yeah you never quite got into that uh yeah the second movie yeah yeah yeah well but speaking about this you know one of the things to think about is where do these developers come from right we've got we've got people been making games for years but what inspires new people to do that well Tim Cook was at the White House and was talking about how coding and education is is pretty much tantamount to Student Success that they believe that it's a requirement in the US for every kid to have a coding before they graduate from from their uh uh primary and secondary school and be somewhat profession at it so they've got this Swift curriculum and they've distributed to all the schools in the US and 4,000 have picked it up now there obviously a lot more than 4,000 schools in the US but they they've done that and they've done that with 80 community colleges and they are pushing coding they are pushing Swift programming and that's that's kind of a big deal I think you know it's it I I want to address this a little bit right there's there are people that say everyone can code or everyone should code and you know it's it's not exactly accurate yes people can yes it should people should have some Proficiency in it just so we understand how things work and and that people should be able to find whether or not it's something that they that appeals to them but from time to time you know there these journalism layoffs you see people pile on as trolls and saying well they should go learn to code yes as if journalism was a worthless Pursuit right yeah so I I think it's one of those things where it it's not a um that is it's a valid skill that coding is a valid skill it's a necessary kind of skill to be at least familiar with even if you don't pursue it as a career I am actually in favor of what Apple's doing here I mean like it matters whether I am or not but uh I have certain problems with the whole thing because of two things I think I'm more British problems than worldwide there's been a fashion here for a few years for uh the government to say children must be able to code they must be able to code they've got to have it and then you ask one of the MPS here so what is coding and they fall apart they don't know it's a great buzzword to do it and then I'm afraid the other thing is I was in I work a lot in schools and one of them showed me an example of their coding and it is nothing like coding at all it is a graphical system of moving two blocks together and you that's it that's that's called MIT scratch language and it is coding okay I'm not incorrect cuz I was there and I saw it and it was certainly not MIT level and I don't mean I mean literally dragging one square next to another and telling me no there was no blocks in there it was a block of color on a screen they made a little image and told me that that was a code but it isn't no what does this code do a red block and a Blue Block well the different colored blocks the different blocks do different functions some of them are blocks some of them are sub routine blocks some of them are no these are the building blocks of programming and actually there are production systems that are programmed in this way you are being very generous to a primary school system which had none of this I encourage you strongly to after we're done recording go to code.org and I want you to do the first three lessons okay I've programmed in Swift before how about you come over to here I'll take you to the primary school and then you can say to me how this is in any way a code you can get to code.org faster than I can come over to the elementary schools there and I will come but I want you to go ahead and try that code.org because you'll see that it is blocks being used to create code and these are the foundations I think the problem here is I said blocks and you've taken it to mean blocks in some other context this thing I was shown in a school was not coding and it was being sold to the staff as if it was so this is all a lot of hype in the UK and you compare that to what apple is doing with the the Swift and Swift playgrounds that's real that's good and I like that I don't actually think everybody has to know how to code but I think the more you know of it the more you understand certain other things and also the thinking process is terribly useful critical thinking is so useful in so many things but I object to when it is hpe for the S of just ticking the odd box to say you've done something when you haven't so great good on Apple whoever provided this to this Primary School not so much I I think you need to go ahead and check out code.org I think you're making a mistake yes it's not the same as typing in the syntax in Swift but it is teaching these thought processes about order of operations and and repeating things and there's actually a great app that teaches this kind of stuff so there's a game called human resource machine and human resource machine requires you to use different operations to get uh boxes with numbers on them in the right order so that you can take them off the incoming conveyor belt and put them on the outgoing conveyor belt and it gets progressively harder and that is also teaching a programming thought process now it's not saying sub routines and it's not doing all this kind of stuff but it is it is teaching it is learning it just reminds me of of Lucy and the chocolate uh Factory line but okay yep yeah and it it it kind of does but give that one a shot too so those are my re homework here for me I am and it is for you and you are to do it okay um should warn you in advance uh I'm going to get a dog which might eat their homework but as long as you know no yeah no code.org and human resource machine check it out now half of Apple's us hires in 2018 their new hires lacked fouryear college degrees this is interesting because in in the past the way that it was always put was there's a college for everyone there's a university for everyone and everyone should go and get that degree and that if you can't get that degree then you know you might not get a job but the guarantee was that if you got a college degree if you got a University degree you would get a job that sort of guarantee has gone away in the past decade or so maybe even longer and it's really interesting that Apple is is publicly saying that half of their us employment last year were people that did not have a four-year degree and they're very proud of that is there any kind of breakdown of roles I mean how many are in Apple Store retail so forward facing Tamia management all this stuff there's not that breakdown I don't have that breakdown I can't find the answer to that on home pod sorry about that okay now th those employees range from sales Specialists managers Genius Bar staff um because Genius Bar staff anything in the retail side is more likely to have a higher turn is not other ones but but also at headquarters right I mean there there are plenty of ways to learn skills for programming that aren't required to be a four-year degree sure you know things like Lambda school for example there are a lot of interesting things going on I don't know what that at land you should look that one up you want more homework you look that up too okay I'm making a note right now can you tell yeah all right so yes well but this is good isn't it I mean well we have an issue here in UK that it's not that long since uh education University levels were free that we had a grant for it now we absolutely do not we have to pay everything Scotland is different Scotland still uh supports its students so that is changing the type of courses that people go for and honestly it sometimes surprises me that there's quite a lot of um uh there are a lot of very successful university courses in writing and writing is kind of half vocational half not the chances of getting a job after a writing degree are higher than after I imagine some of the more esoteric ones but not as high as say an engineering one or things I think the whole model of University to work it used to be at least here that the fact that you got a degree at all had taught you certain things and those things that taught you made you you know good in the workplace if it also happened that you followed your actual subject then so much the better now it seems here to be primarily vocationally driven and I think that's reducing the number of times people are going to University at all it sounds like it's the same in the States but it's kind of working out is that fair yeah uh not entirely certain but yeah okay well fingers okay now we talked in the past about San Diego right uh it's a fine fine place I'm sure I've driven through it I think they qualcomm's based there okay well there you go Qualcomm what's not yes bit busy these days I understand yeah keeping that in your mind Apple promised attire 1,200 tech jobs in San Diego by the year 2022 all right yes some hires coming the end of 2019 but 1,200 more jobs coming to San Diego you interesting huh you get to tell me that qualcom employs that exact number of people in that area nope I'm not telling you anything I'm going let you draw your own conclusions okay draw your own conclusions well William this this has been wonderful you've got homework to do and and I've got an episode to produce and I'm so so glad that we had all of our listeners here to join us for it cool well remember to test me next week I'll be absolutely ready for you okay thank you for having this nice talking to you and I'm really interest all the health stuff that I'm really going to go think about that that's Grand all right we'll be back next week I want to thank everyone for joining us uh I'm V marks on Twitter you're W Gallagher on Twitter and where else can people find you uh my favorite way actually is email uh William appleinsider.com that gets straight through to me and I just really enjoyed getting am us that way so fantastic we'll be back next weekyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome back to the Apple Insider podcast with me Victor and William Apple I see what you did there I'm not going to say that I liked it but I didn't dis like it reminds me of Johnny apple seed which uh isn't a terribly well-known story in the UK and I've just kind of vaguely heard the name he planted some trees and I presume they were apple trees and this is the story but you know it's just a piece of historical call back I'll take that yeah very good should I call you figa Apple I'm I'm suddenly not sure what the polite thing to do is I'm not sure either okay that that would imply that we're brothers and well I certainly feel that sort of familial that that fraternal relationship with you I don't know that that would work okay you're happy to extend the the the the nice part but strictly clear designs clear links clear divisions for any legal issues that might ensue okay thanks well given the amount of trouble you get into absolutely I wish you were kidding about that yes all right and you thought you were when you call from the precinct I will answer right okay yeah I was going to ask how you are but I think I can tell uh and I'm fine too mostly so good good what's what's happening what's going on well in in the past you and I spoke about wiwn and about the Indian market and we were talking about that in times about how India is is kind of a an interesting trouble spot for Apple where they keep trying to sell phones but their phones are very expensive and so they can either sell the old phone like the se but it's old and people recognize that it's old or they can sell new phones that are too expensive for that market yes but I mean they could make cheaper phones we talked about Apple so you're right that's well and and there are compromises right when you start making a cheaper phone you're giving up on something and apple doesn't really like to give up on something I'm not I'm not going to characterize the whole country but i' said that historically there is a sense that that negotiation appropriate in many settings in India and and this this is is changing a little bit but of course apple is coming from the traditional perspective as far as they're going that know this is a firm sale and it's this price now wiwn has has been known for their production lowcost models that were for sale in India in the past they built the iPhone SE and the 6S for the local market and they built them in India so they would save on import costs the company has increased their investment in India back in January we heard that they were doing 30 billion rupees in additional investment in the region uh we don't even know exactly how that's going to be used but it it looks as if all of this could be so that Apple could go ahead and and shift production of the iPhone to India to reduce dependence on China it's one of the few options available to to foxcon to move into who's also said to be looking to production in Vietnam so doing that kind of thing would would also reduce costs further for iPhone sales in India so wion's current production capacity isn't enough to cover the consumer demand in India they're relying on Imports to make up the bulk of the purchases in the market so wistron increasing their investment in the area foxcon looking at as a place to expand all are good news for India and also good news for Apple not to pay import taxes if they can produce the devices in country all follows makes absolute sense let's do that yes Y and you know if the uh if the US China trade War continues then that also makes good sense uh yes yes uh I think in a similar way we got to think here brexit may have come up once or twice we have a lot of things where companies are just leaving the UK even if brexit suddenly reversed and didn't happen I don't think those companies are going to move back they've spent their money they've gone I think as we're seeing all these companies move around even if the US China tariff War business calms down I think they're going to stay spread around wherever they are it just doesn't seem economically sensible to do it otherwise doesn't it creating instability creating situation of economic fear has results right it has real costs and you're you're absolutely right I think when you when you uh uh inspire a company to seek headquarters elsewhere that you you you'd have to do a lot to create an incentive for them to come back yeah but in this I mean uh it's bad in brexit as far as apple and production concerns it all sounds good to me anything that makes something locally has got to be great so actually Yay for all of this no yeah cool all right then yeah why not so you know you have accused me in the past rather of caring about health and and caring about health monitoring accused um I think I've correctly identified that's I'll go as far as that I'm not disinterested in health but you you've got a long track record of really following all the details so I find it fascinating when you know there a tiny Health story but you know why it's important I love this stuff so what's happened healthily this week well so there are signs that say that the the future MacBook models could offer some of the same health and fitness tracking functions that the Apple watch provides that you they could place a A biosensor in the case near the trackpad that the user could access while typing on the keyboard and just thinking about it this comes from a patent application and we know that patent applications may or may not turn into things that are actual products but thinking about it it makes sense many people who use their laptops do so well seated would you agree yes okay and sitting is not exactly the healthiest thing for person it's pretty good but I guess okay yes well I mean it's comfortable but it's it's in terms of healthwise you're meant to be up and moving and you know one of the things the Apple watch does is tell you periodically that you need to go and have some activity that you need to get up and move right yeah and so they could embed a sensor that goes ahead and makes contact with your wrist as you're typing and catches your your heart rate from the Palm rest oh see sorry I was thinking what is it going to do monitor how fast I'm typing but you mean actual Palm rests would make the same connection that the back of my watch does okay suddenly yeah yeah right so you know you'd be able to detect the heart rate the respiration rate the uh the the pulse oxygen level the uh blood pressure and blood volume and the typing speed yeah well that's that's already easy to detect but you know you could be able to detect the the water content in the user so you know you can grab a lot of different measurements out of this and obviously L if you're seated and working and that's bad for your health then we can see these measurements and it can you know tell you get up and be active because and you know it can tell you the kinds of things that the watch tells you right I have to did you really just say detect the water content in me yeah that's one of the things you can do if you have an infrared LED light source you can detect water content in the user which allows you to increase the number of other things you can measure based on that okay I'm a GOG at the are you scared you're a little scared huh I I safest thing is to say yes it's a more complex H than that but yes okay all right I mean that's astounding that you can do that I take it I'm just that's just you to me I haven't heard that before has it been around for a while or something but it well some of this has but the the idea is that putting this in a laptop where you're sitting and typing for long periods of times putting in the Palm rest is a good idea because you're using it and you're in contact for a long period of time you the other place that're putting health related sensors is uh potentially in the second generation of airpods oh yes that's true I've written about that that makes sense as well I could see that M okay well they're certainly not the first to put that kind of thing in in a wireless headphone uh broggie a couple of years ago put pulse in that and LG did it in a wired headset and it makes sense because if you're actually out there using them for Fitness well you don't want to have to to have it attached anywhere else you've already got them in your ears they're already making contact why not M so the I I think the thing here is that it's about making Health more holistic making it be a part of everything and that's that's a good thing but if this means already the watch does a lot and uh I don't know how much the iPhone does it obviously records all this data the MacBook could do all these things uh is that me leave the Mac out no health benefits on a Mac at all well the MacBook is a Mac true okay Mac Mini then the um the legendary uh Mac Pro yes the Mac the Mac Mini and the iMac Pro and those things would be left out probably I'm looking for more reasons to buy an iMac you see and you're not really helping me yeah no I'm not Apple you know is is looking to increase their exposure in the health platform right they have they have over 50 medical doctors spread throughout the company they're building these these got these Health Labs this is an area that's not going away for Apple they are clearly invested in this yes I'm surprised this week we heard this the new website that they own privacy is important I would have expected being healthy is quite important too. could have been in there as well those seem to be the two thrusts of this of this technology company security and health are in there yeah but you know I like both of these things absolutely y I do too now of course as we're talking about new MacBooks one of the things we ought to talk about is the idea of an arm-based MacBook really has that come around again do you think every few years is it now looking a bit more yes it's now looking a bit more likely because I remember hearing some story that somebody in Intel told a client that it was going to happen so if intel thinks it's happening uh is that the story here that it's even more likely that is the one I don't know the details though of who was saying it and how disappointed they sounded so yeah it's it's been rumored and I I'm hopeful because I think it's a very interesting development and I imagine it puts fear Into the Heart of Intel yes I would imagine so I I'm interested in so many things because uh this obviously the technology which I think you would understand more than I do there's the programming side which I have some experience of but also I just remember the whole business of moving uh from the 68,000 years into the power PC and then poers PC into Intel I given how other companies go to lengths to avoid this kind of move Apple's you know getting a bit Twitchy about this done it before do it again yeah be fun to see what happens well the the power C power PC move was a really risky one was that the first because that operating system was not well it was not really portable as an operating system goes and it was very very difficult to make that leap uh that was the one that happened just as the company was on its last legs then Steve Jobs had come in and it it was one that was barely pulled off the move to Intel was significantly easier because next which started on 68k was able to run on Intel they'd already done that work oh I see right I this is I Let's test your knowledge of Mac hardware one of my absolute favorite Macs to ever work on uh was one of the very first Power PC ones and it was a quite a quadr like flat box uh and the monitor had speakers built in at an angle for for it it was just I was in an office with a load of PCS and there was my Mac it looked great and I loved it and I loved it so much I can't remember the name of it can you positive like like an 8100 AV or something like that or a I don't know or a 7600 kind of hoping a bell would ring when you said something like that but it hasn't yet oh well tell you in a second yeah keep talking we're both going to look this up aren we at least I'll recognize it when I see it hopefully what was your uh favorite Mac from the power PCA I can't believe I just said that but okay do you have one you are ridiculous you know that right yes oh I think it might be a 6100 power Macintosh 6100 I got a picture of that that looks like thing I'm thinking of I remember the keyboard is great as well I really like that keyboard I mean the LC 520 was kind of an unusual looking one but that was again a 60 K not a power Mac right well me and 68k we don't talk anymore no that's that's a nice little diversion but you were mentioning privacy 10 seconds ago yes it's constantly on my mind about every 10 seconds I think about it uh is there something on your mind every 10 seconds as well that sounded wrong so so I want to tell you we' had privacy come up in recent weeks and there was uh a Facebook story that I'm going to tell you about really quickly so Zuck Mark Zuckerberg is embarking on a privacy focused road map they are shifting away from the public Focus that have landed them in multiple scandals he said public social networks will continue to be very important in people's lives for connecting with everyone you know discovering new people ideas and content and giving people a voice more broadly people find these valuable every day and there are still a lot of useful services to build on top of them but now with all the ways people also want to interact privately there's also an opportunity to build a simpler platform that's focused on privacy first and that they will increasingly shift to private encrypted Services where people can be confident that what they say together to each other stay secure and their messages and content won't stick around forever okay well you called him Zuck you're on first syllable terms with him and I'm not that clear this sounds like everything he's said several times before and the uh undertoe of it is that everything now isn't in any way secure private encrypted yeah well and what's sort of is Instagram is not Facebook is not and what they're going to do is they're going to make all of these Services integrate with each other and talk to each other and you have to actually opt out to uh avoid having them talk to each other okay I'm wondering how many people out there in the real world know that Facebook owns uh either of those for it I mean I didn't until probably yeah until you actually I think you told me about it and like I remember gasping but I do that from time to time yeah well so the the thing is is that it wasn't that long ago you and I were talking about how Facebook had a data harvesting VPN app yes that had broken Apple's Enterprise rules ah that small thing yes Clos down all their software for a bit yes yes but they've learned their lesson now have they again yes I don't know how we'll know uh that they've learned it until it goes wrong again sometime but so what makes a data breach the worst breach of all time the worst of all time what to you would make the a data breach the worst data breach of all time uh if somebody could see my reading history in the Apple bookstore my Netflix Q uh some of my Apple music favorite playlists I'd be embarrassed about uh oh I suppose you know Bank details so if you're going to clean somebody out you're not going to start with my bank account are you so what about you is there something more well in in America we have something called a social security number of course you did which is is issued by the government you have a government ID don't you we have a government somewhere yes uh we have tax ID codes and things like that they're nowhere near common commonly needed to and you have you have NHS records right you have National Health Service records yes okay now losing one of those would be bad right uh I certainly see in the states that would be a big thing here it would be inconvenient but seriously the number of times we have to use a National Insurance number as it's called Uh hardly that matters so yeah I wouldn't noticed for quite a while this the problem the the social security number ends up being used as an ID number for a lot of things and it gets tied to our credit reports and our credit history and so it's um you know one of the ways that that when you apply to purchase something they check your credit or when you apply for a job they check your credit to see if you're responsible enough to be an employee or see if you're responsible enough to to purchase the thing you're trying to purchase sure right and if you have bad credit then you may not get hired over someone who does have good credit right never thought about it from employment side but that makes sense yes okay U it's it's really frustrating it's difficult because if you're trying to get back on your feet you can't get employment to get back on your feet it's a social problem right now to that end there are Credit Agencies in the US there's there's Equifax and some of these others right and they maintain the credit reports and when someone run your credit they run it with one of those agencies and and you know you're you're entitled in the US to run your credit with all of them once a year so you can make sure that what they have on you is correct okay yes similar thing here yeah okay so losing a social security number would be bad losing 145 million of them would be very bad did you look where you last put them no I can't find them so breach is a podcast that takes you inside the world's big biggest hacks how they're done who does them and what's really at stake when your private data is compromised and this season they're investigating the worst breach ever by Equifax and so if you wanted to you could listen to season 2 of breach the Equifax story this time it's personal subscribe to breach that's B Rea in your podcast app right now I I I'm going to do that because I think it's really interesting to hear what they find out about it I I I am very skeptical of the credit reporting agencies I'm kind of surprised that they haven't been replaced already by someone with a blockchain but sorry I'm just typing in breach podcast into my browser to make sure I've got it there there it is oh I'm having that okay um yes I understand okay uh but you're not going to tell me anything more about the 149 million whatever it was well I mean this was the last last year they they were exposed to having let out 145 million Social Security numbers they were breached and that was it was a little more complicated than that because it appeared as if there were people that were aware of it be when it happened that and they didn't release it until much later and so they were selling stock and things like that based on this infiniter information oh okay that's different wow okay right it's it's bad Every Which Way coming and going yes right well don't do that then don't lose all of them okay no don't lose all of them so yeah it's it's really problematic and you know what we do over here is we end up trying to place freezes on the credit so that people can't add things to them yeah I've had that here too yes but it's uh only as effective as as it can be right sorry my mind nightmareish because you know you're you're applying for a job let's say again and they want to do a credit run on you and they don't tell you which agency they're going to pull from and so you've got freezes at four agencies and they're like yeah we can't run your credit you can't be hired and you know sometimes they'll tell you that and sometimes they just won't and they won't hire you so you have to preemptively figure out which ecy they're going to use and unfreeze it just for that one or unfreeze all of them and be vulnerable during that time when you're trying to be hired right how you can which one they'll use well in in you know in my example um they really wanted to make the hire and so they tried three times and on the fourth one we unfroze the right account oh okay right that's got a want but if there were other exactly had there been other candidates that were just as strong that would have been it yeah well what a world we live in okay um I hope you whoever it was got whatever it was they were after and that all is fine now can you just tell me that all's fine now William Apple all is fine now okay let's not make that a thing okay oh all right all right now speaking about credit reporting and governments and things like that so Huawei is suing the US government they have filed a lawsuit right as you do as sue the entire government as as one does well no what so that's the suing the federal government is not that unusual you you tend to sue um you know you Su sue the government or you sue the Attorney General because they're acting on behalf of the government or something like so you'll read cases where where it says you know uh the party filing the lawsuit versus the um the person who happens to be the Attorney General at the time head of the justice department it's fairly common that's that part's not that unusual how common is winning that's difficult it happens I don't know that it happens quite a lot you we could have uh we could have one of my attorney friends T Greg duet who's been on this podcast before come on and talk about that if we wanted to okay I'm I am just curious to know because okay but uh what's making you say this now what's been happening well so huwe filed a lawsuit because they are not pleased with us government's purchasing ban on Huawei equipment oh yes okay so as a part of 20 8's National Defense authorization act which is a bill that goes through Congress pretty much every year it authorizes National Defense and then funding for it um they sometimes write in different requirements and different things in there and this this last year's got the notion that that they would limit government agency spending on certain products they prohibited certain telecommunications and video surveillance Services which restrict government agencies from purchasing equipment manufactured by huawe and ZTE and Huawei is saying that's unconstitutional that it is a a bill of attainer which is a legal term that says it's a legislative act that declares a person or prison is guilty of an act and punishes them without due process okay what are the odds of success well they're going to have to find a sympathetic court and they're going to have to present evidence and what the first question is is this a an act that declares them guilty of anything and punishes them without due process so what what are they being accused of being guilty of and then they're going to have to talk about that the the what they're saying is that Congress has repeatedly failed to produce any evidence to support their restrictions on Huawei products right what else is going on here I mean if the ODS of success are not great what's the benefit to them of making this suit F first of all they're Local Heroes in China they're Heroes and adding to that is that their CFO wanu Meg yeah is fighting extradition um from Canada to to the US right there they have charges for bank fraud wire fraud and violations of the international emergency economic Powers Act andac to commit money l oh these small things God people are so fuzzy yes yeah it's um it's part of the bigger fight is really what you're telling me I well multiple fronts I would say good phas now in addition to that there you know there's there's also prosecution alleged that Huawei conducted business operations in Iran through one of their um Affiliates skycom in violation of us sanctions on Iran and then lied about Partnerships and banking tied to that there are also charges that haa Personnel stole Trade Secrets relating to a T-Mobile robot called tappy sorry a T-Mobile robot called tappy yes and they sto trade secrets about the robot it was a secret but it isn't now well how the robot was made things like that they stole it right they stole the secet or at least let's be very clear they're alleged to have stolen the secet good point well caught I'm just thinking I would have kept the name a big secret as well if it was tappy but okay that's but that's T-Mobile not not doing yeah okay so so basically Hall is being quite busy these days what with that and the foldable phones their lawyers are going to do great right I actually I mean I know this is slightly off St but having said foldable phones to you having not seen either in the flesh I like the look of how one better than I do the Samsung one but uh there's a story this week on Apple Insider that actually I was involved um to do with Corning uh saying that they're working on foldable glass and this is this little image of glass that they've bent and it's just astounding that it can spring back again but it's still glass compared to the plastic or polymers I I have seen flexible glass in the past right I've seen this as a part of screen protectors where the demonstration was a a glass screen protector suspended at either end and a piston pushing on onto the center and showing the deflection and you could get a good 2 in of deflection before it broke okay which is an astounding amount it's a huge amount more than I would have imagined but is that the same as but it's not folding in half no it's not the same okay do you think this foldable stuff is just an expensive fad or what's going to happen next you have to think about use case right the the there are a couple difficulties the the phone form factor fits in our pockets mostly the form phone form factor is reachable by our hands mostly but there are times Where We crave larger screens clearly and so having a phone that collapses into being the form factor that fits in the pocket mostly and is reachable by our hands mostly but then can come out and expand into being something that's suitable for our eyes is is an interesting idea presuming that that's what we really need if that's the content we need if that's the size that we need I just kind of fancy one let's be absolutely clear about this U well the the biggest Factor besides does it actually work are is there content for it and is the operating system going to account for it right if if you've got an operating system that accounts for it but none of the apps are aware of it then it's junk if you've got an operating system that is aware of it but doesn't handle it well it's junk there there are a lot of things that have to come together for it to be useful really then by the sound of it what I'm waiting for is Apple to do it uh possibly yeah uh I don't know what they'll do Corning is interesting because Apple uses them all the time so Corning actually says they have shown foldable samples to companies one imagines that must include Apple um uh and if it is a glass case I I believe glass is better than the plastic polymers that's fine but when you say that about operating system and apps you know if Apple does this it'll do it completely there won't be apps no no there will be plenty of apps that straggle now Apple's app will get on board but you know getting app developers on board means that they'll be hit or missed that some of them will be available and launch day and some will straggle and some won't ever update at all I'm okay with that I think yeah as long as the for them to do it there there was a story I was reading last week or this week I was reading this week about people who wanted to fund a Kickstarter to create a fund to pay developers of classic IOS games to update their apps so they would continue to run actually can I stop you there because I wrote a story about that and I was talking with their PR people although that's exactly how I heard it that they were trying to get development to fund that what they now say is actually know they're self-funding they're doing it themselves what they want is to get the source code for these uh games and themselves develop them and get them I think I mean good luck to them that's slightly cheekier that's not exactly the holistic story I'd heard yeah I I think it's an Absolut great idea but until they tell us all the details I'm I'm really curious how it shakes out uh who gives you the source code who profits from any sales afterwards who has the rights I think they're underestimating the work and overestimating the demand so we'll see but I I love the idea so fingers crossed for them well so there's I mean it's important that classic games don't die and and this is part of you know the archive.org the internet archives mission is is besides preserving websites they also have an archive of classic games from many different computer systems and you know people say games come on why bother but I think there's an Artistry to them that that in terms of story in terms of user engagement in terms of pushing the limits of what systems were capable of at the time with 8bit graphics and 8bit music and that that art should not be lost I think whatever Gamers use now is what the rest of us come to use later so I'm interested for that so as a a writer I'm also I know people who write video games and they are so interesting about it but as it turns out I just personally I'm not much of a gamer are you um off and on I I have at different points throughout my life been heavily into it and then backed out and but but I I think that it really is an art form I I'm absolutely convinced of that and whether or not it appeals to you or engages you or captures your imagination in time is is down to a matter of taste and what you're willing to invest in in terms of time you know you might not be the person that says you're going to go and invest 2 hours listening to Opera at a performance you're not going to read the Operetta and you're not going to study the singers but other people do it doesn't make the art form any less valid Oh yes totally absolutely so uh preservation uh I'm absolutely for that although it just occurs to me I've noticed I have one game on my iPhone it's Sudoko uh suduku app it's on my iPhone it's on my iPad I play it quite a lot but that's it um yeah that's you gone off AG Birds then yeah you never quite got into that uh yeah the second movie yeah yeah yeah well but speaking about this you know one of the things to think about is where do these developers come from right we've got we've got people been making games for years but what inspires new people to do that well Tim Cook was at the White House and was talking about how coding and education is is pretty much tantamount to Student Success that they believe that it's a requirement in the US for every kid to have a coding before they graduate from from their uh uh primary and secondary school and be somewhat profession at it so they've got this Swift curriculum and they've distributed to all the schools in the US and 4,000 have picked it up now there obviously a lot more than 4,000 schools in the US but they they've done that and they've done that with 80 community colleges and they are pushing coding they are pushing Swift programming and that's that's kind of a big deal I think you know it's it I I want to address this a little bit right there's there are people that say everyone can code or everyone should code and you know it's it's not exactly accurate yes people can yes it should people should have some Proficiency in it just so we understand how things work and and that people should be able to find whether or not it's something that they that appeals to them but from time to time you know there these journalism layoffs you see people pile on as trolls and saying well they should go learn to code yes as if journalism was a worthless Pursuit right yeah so I I think it's one of those things where it it's not a um that is it's a valid skill that coding is a valid skill it's a necessary kind of skill to be at least familiar with even if you don't pursue it as a career I am actually in favor of what Apple's doing here I mean like it matters whether I am or not but uh I have certain problems with the whole thing because of two things I think I'm more British problems than worldwide there's been a fashion here for a few years for uh the government to say children must be able to code they must be able to code they've got to have it and then you ask one of the MPS here so what is coding and they fall apart they don't know it's a great buzzword to do it and then I'm afraid the other thing is I was in I work a lot in schools and one of them showed me an example of their coding and it is nothing like coding at all it is a graphical system of moving two blocks together and you that's it that's that's called MIT scratch language and it is coding okay I'm not incorrect cuz I was there and I saw it and it was certainly not MIT level and I don't mean I mean literally dragging one square next to another and telling me no there was no blocks in there it was a block of color on a screen they made a little image and told me that that was a code but it isn't no what does this code do a red block and a Blue Block well the different colored blocks the different blocks do different functions some of them are blocks some of them are sub routine blocks some of them are no these are the building blocks of programming and actually there are production systems that are programmed in this way you are being very generous to a primary school system which had none of this I encourage you strongly to after we're done recording go to code.org and I want you to do the first three lessons okay I've programmed in Swift before how about you come over to here I'll take you to the primary school and then you can say to me how this is in any way a code you can get to code.org faster than I can come over to the elementary schools there and I will come but I want you to go ahead and try that code.org because you'll see that it is blocks being used to create code and these are the foundations I think the problem here is I said blocks and you've taken it to mean blocks in some other context this thing I was shown in a school was not coding and it was being sold to the staff as if it was so this is all a lot of hype in the UK and you compare that to what apple is doing with the the Swift and Swift playgrounds that's real that's good and I like that I don't actually think everybody has to know how to code but I think the more you know of it the more you understand certain other things and also the thinking process is terribly useful critical thinking is so useful in so many things but I object to when it is hpe for the S of just ticking the odd box to say you've done something when you haven't so great good on Apple whoever provided this to this Primary School not so much I I think you need to go ahead and check out code.org I think you're making a mistake yes it's not the same as typing in the syntax in Swift but it is teaching these thought processes about order of operations and and repeating things and there's actually a great app that teaches this kind of stuff so there's a game called human resource machine and human resource machine requires you to use different operations to get uh boxes with numbers on them in the right order so that you can take them off the incoming conveyor belt and put them on the outgoing conveyor belt and it gets progressively harder and that is also teaching a programming thought process now it's not saying sub routines and it's not doing all this kind of stuff but it is it is teaching it is learning it just reminds me of of Lucy and the chocolate uh Factory line but okay yep yeah and it it it kind of does but give that one a shot too so those are my re homework here for me I am and it is for you and you are to do it okay um should warn you in advance uh I'm going to get a dog which might eat their homework but as long as you know no yeah no code.org and human resource machine check it out now half of Apple's us hires in 2018 their new hires lacked fouryear college degrees this is interesting because in in the past the way that it was always put was there's a college for everyone there's a university for everyone and everyone should go and get that degree and that if you can't get that degree then you know you might not get a job but the guarantee was that if you got a college degree if you got a University degree you would get a job that sort of guarantee has gone away in the past decade or so maybe even longer and it's really interesting that Apple is is publicly saying that half of their us employment last year were people that did not have a four-year degree and they're very proud of that is there any kind of breakdown of roles I mean how many are in Apple Store retail so forward facing Tamia management all this stuff there's not that breakdown I don't have that breakdown I can't find the answer to that on home pod sorry about that okay now th those employees range from sales Specialists managers Genius Bar staff um because Genius Bar staff anything in the retail side is more likely to have a higher turn is not other ones but but also at headquarters right I mean there there are plenty of ways to learn skills for programming that aren't required to be a four-year degree sure you know things like Lambda school for example there are a lot of interesting things going on I don't know what that at land you should look that one up you want more homework you look that up too okay I'm making a note right now can you tell yeah all right so yes well but this is good isn't it I mean well we have an issue here in UK that it's not that long since uh education University levels were free that we had a grant for it now we absolutely do not we have to pay everything Scotland is different Scotland still uh supports its students so that is changing the type of courses that people go for and honestly it sometimes surprises me that there's quite a lot of um uh there are a lot of very successful university courses in writing and writing is kind of half vocational half not the chances of getting a job after a writing degree are higher than after I imagine some of the more esoteric ones but not as high as say an engineering one or things I think the whole model of University to work it used to be at least here that the fact that you got a degree at all had taught you certain things and those things that taught you made you you know good in the workplace if it also happened that you followed your actual subject then so much the better now it seems here to be primarily vocationally driven and I think that's reducing the number of times people are going to University at all it sounds like it's the same in the States but it's kind of working out is that fair yeah uh not entirely certain but yeah okay well fingers okay now we talked in the past about San Diego right uh it's a fine fine place I'm sure I've driven through it I think they qualcomm's based there okay well there you go Qualcomm what's not yes bit busy these days I understand yeah keeping that in your mind Apple promised attire 1,200 tech jobs in San Diego by the year 2022 all right yes some hires coming the end of 2019 but 1,200 more jobs coming to San Diego you interesting huh you get to tell me that qualcom employs that exact number of people in that area nope I'm not telling you anything I'm going let you draw your own conclusions okay draw your own conclusions well William this this has been wonderful you've got homework to do and and I've got an episode to produce and I'm so so glad that we had all of our listeners here to join us for it cool well remember to test me next week I'll be absolutely ready for you okay thank you for having this nice talking to you and I'm really interest all the health stuff that I'm really going to go think about that that's Grand all right we'll be back next week I want to thank everyone for joining us uh I'm V marks on Twitter you're W Gallagher on Twitter and where else can people find you uh my favorite way actually is email uh William appleinsider.com that gets straight through to me and I just really enjoyed getting am us that way so fantastic we'll be back next weekyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome back to the Apple Insider podcast with me Victor and William Apple I see what you did there I'm not going to say that I liked it but I didn't dis like it reminds me of Johnny apple seed which uh isn't a terribly well-known story in the UK and I've just kind of vaguely heard the name he planted some trees and I presume they were apple trees and this is the story but you know it's just a piece of historical call back I'll take that yeah very good should I call you figa Apple I'm I'm suddenly not sure what the polite thing to do is I'm not sure either okay that that would imply that we're brothers and well I certainly feel that sort of familial that that fraternal relationship with you I don't know that that would work okay you're happy to extend the the the the nice part but strictly clear designs clear links clear divisions for any legal issues that might ensue okay thanks well given the amount of trouble you get into absolutely I wish you were kidding about that yes all right and you thought you were when you call from the precinct I will answer right okay yeah I was going to ask how you are but I think I can tell uh and I'm fine too mostly so good good what's what's happening what's going on well in in the past you and I spoke about wiwn and about the Indian market and we were talking about that in times about how India is is kind of a an interesting trouble spot for Apple where they keep trying to sell phones but their phones are very expensive and so they can either sell the old phone like the se but it's old and people recognize that it's old or they can sell new phones that are too expensive for that market yes but I mean they could make cheaper phones we talked about Apple so you're right that's well and and there are compromises right when you start making a cheaper phone you're giving up on something and apple doesn't really like to give up on something I'm not I'm not going to characterize the whole country but i' said that historically there is a sense that that negotiation appropriate in many settings in India and and this this is is changing a little bit but of course apple is coming from the traditional perspective as far as they're going that know this is a firm sale and it's this price now wiwn has has been known for their production lowcost models that were for sale in India in the past they built the iPhone SE and the 6S for the local market and they built them in India so they would save on import costs the company has increased their investment in India back in January we heard that they were doing 30 billion rupees in additional investment in the region uh we don't even know exactly how that's going to be used but it it looks as if all of this could be so that Apple could go ahead and and shift production of the iPhone to India to reduce dependence on China it's one of the few options available to to foxcon to move into who's also said to be looking to production in Vietnam so doing that kind of thing would would also reduce costs further for iPhone sales in India so wion's current production capacity isn't enough to cover the consumer demand in India they're relying on Imports to make up the bulk of the purchases in the market so wistron increasing their investment in the area foxcon looking at as a place to expand all are good news for India and also good news for Apple not to pay import taxes if they can produce the devices in country all follows makes absolute sense let's do that yes Y and you know if the uh if the US China trade War continues then that also makes good sense uh yes yes uh I think in a similar way we got to think here brexit may have come up once or twice we have a lot of things where companies are just leaving the UK even if brexit suddenly reversed and didn't happen I don't think those companies are going to move back they've spent their money they've gone I think as we're seeing all these companies move around even if the US China tariff War business calms down I think they're going to stay spread around wherever they are it just doesn't seem economically sensible to do it otherwise doesn't it creating instability creating situation of economic fear has results right it has real costs and you're you're absolutely right I think when you when you uh uh inspire a company to seek headquarters elsewhere that you you you'd have to do a lot to create an incentive for them to come back yeah but in this I mean uh it's bad in brexit as far as apple and production concerns it all sounds good to me anything that makes something locally has got to be great so actually Yay for all of this no yeah cool all right then yeah why not so you know you have accused me in the past rather of caring about health and and caring about health monitoring accused um I think I've correctly identified that's I'll go as far as that I'm not disinterested in health but you you've got a long track record of really following all the details so I find it fascinating when you know there a tiny Health story but you know why it's important I love this stuff so what's happened healthily this week well so there are signs that say that the the future MacBook models could offer some of the same health and fitness tracking functions that the Apple watch provides that you they could place a A biosensor in the case near the trackpad that the user could access while typing on the keyboard and just thinking about it this comes from a patent application and we know that patent applications may or may not turn into things that are actual products but thinking about it it makes sense many people who use their laptops do so well seated would you agree yes okay and sitting is not exactly the healthiest thing for person it's pretty good but I guess okay yes well I mean it's comfortable but it's it's in terms of healthwise you're meant to be up and moving and you know one of the things the Apple watch does is tell you periodically that you need to go and have some activity that you need to get up and move right yeah and so they could embed a sensor that goes ahead and makes contact with your wrist as you're typing and catches your your heart rate from the Palm rest oh see sorry I was thinking what is it going to do monitor how fast I'm typing but you mean actual Palm rests would make the same connection that the back of my watch does okay suddenly yeah yeah right so you know you'd be able to detect the heart rate the respiration rate the uh the the pulse oxygen level the uh blood pressure and blood volume and the typing speed yeah well that's that's already easy to detect but you know you could be able to detect the the water content in the user so you know you can grab a lot of different measurements out of this and obviously L if you're seated and working and that's bad for your health then we can see these measurements and it can you know tell you get up and be active because and you know it can tell you the kinds of things that the watch tells you right I have to did you really just say detect the water content in me yeah that's one of the things you can do if you have an infrared LED light source you can detect water content in the user which allows you to increase the number of other things you can measure based on that okay I'm a GOG at the are you scared you're a little scared huh I I safest thing is to say yes it's a more complex H than that but yes okay all right I mean that's astounding that you can do that I take it I'm just that's just you to me I haven't heard that before has it been around for a while or something but it well some of this has but the the idea is that putting this in a laptop where you're sitting and typing for long periods of times putting in the Palm rest is a good idea because you're using it and you're in contact for a long period of time you the other place that're putting health related sensors is uh potentially in the second generation of airpods oh yes that's true I've written about that that makes sense as well I could see that M okay well they're certainly not the first to put that kind of thing in in a wireless headphone uh broggie a couple of years ago put pulse in that and LG did it in a wired headset and it makes sense because if you're actually out there using them for Fitness well you don't want to have to to have it attached anywhere else you've already got them in your ears they're already making contact why not M so the I I think the thing here is that it's about making Health more holistic making it be a part of everything and that's that's a good thing but if this means already the watch does a lot and uh I don't know how much the iPhone does it obviously records all this data the MacBook could do all these things uh is that me leave the Mac out no health benefits on a Mac at all well the MacBook is a Mac true okay Mac Mini then the um the legendary uh Mac Pro yes the Mac the Mac Mini and the iMac Pro and those things would be left out probably I'm looking for more reasons to buy an iMac you see and you're not really helping me yeah no I'm not Apple you know is is looking to increase their exposure in the health platform right they have they have over 50 medical doctors spread throughout the company they're building these these got these Health Labs this is an area that's not going away for Apple they are clearly invested in this yes I'm surprised this week we heard this the new website that they own privacy is important I would have expected being healthy is quite important too. could have been in there as well those seem to be the two thrusts of this of this technology company security and health are in there yeah but you know I like both of these things absolutely y I do too now of course as we're talking about new MacBooks one of the things we ought to talk about is the idea of an arm-based MacBook really has that come around again do you think every few years is it now looking a bit more yes it's now looking a bit more likely because I remember hearing some story that somebody in Intel told a client that it was going to happen so if intel thinks it's happening uh is that the story here that it's even more likely that is the one I don't know the details though of who was saying it and how disappointed they sounded so yeah it's it's been rumored and I I'm hopeful because I think it's a very interesting development and I imagine it puts fear Into the Heart of Intel yes I would imagine so I I'm interested in so many things because uh this obviously the technology which I think you would understand more than I do there's the programming side which I have some experience of but also I just remember the whole business of moving uh from the 68,000 years into the power PC and then poers PC into Intel I given how other companies go to lengths to avoid this kind of move Apple's you know getting a bit Twitchy about this done it before do it again yeah be fun to see what happens well the the power C power PC move was a really risky one was that the first because that operating system was not well it was not really portable as an operating system goes and it was very very difficult to make that leap uh that was the one that happened just as the company was on its last legs then Steve Jobs had come in and it it was one that was barely pulled off the move to Intel was significantly easier because next which started on 68k was able to run on Intel they'd already done that work oh I see right I this is I Let's test your knowledge of Mac hardware one of my absolute favorite Macs to ever work on uh was one of the very first Power PC ones and it was a quite a quadr like flat box uh and the monitor had speakers built in at an angle for for it it was just I was in an office with a load of PCS and there was my Mac it looked great and I loved it and I loved it so much I can't remember the name of it can you positive like like an 8100 AV or something like that or a I don't know or a 7600 kind of hoping a bell would ring when you said something like that but it hasn't yet oh well tell you in a second yeah keep talking we're both going to look this up aren we at least I'll recognize it when I see it hopefully what was your uh favorite Mac from the power PCA I can't believe I just said that but okay do you have one you are ridiculous you know that right yes oh I think it might be a 6100 power Macintosh 6100 I got a picture of that that looks like thing I'm thinking of I remember the keyboard is great as well I really like that keyboard I mean the LC 520 was kind of an unusual looking one but that was again a 60 K not a power Mac right well me and 68k we don't talk anymore no that's that's a nice little diversion but you were mentioning privacy 10 seconds ago yes it's constantly on my mind about every 10 seconds I think about it uh is there something on your mind every 10 seconds as well that sounded wrong so so I want to tell you we' had privacy come up in recent weeks and there was uh a Facebook story that I'm going to tell you about really quickly so Zuck Mark Zuckerberg is embarking on a privacy focused road map they are shifting away from the public Focus that have landed them in multiple scandals he said public social networks will continue to be very important in people's lives for connecting with everyone you know discovering new people ideas and content and giving people a voice more broadly people find these valuable every day and there are still a lot of useful services to build on top of them but now with all the ways people also want to interact privately there's also an opportunity to build a simpler platform that's focused on privacy first and that they will increasingly shift to private encrypted Services where people can be confident that what they say together to each other stay secure and their messages and content won't stick around forever okay well you called him Zuck you're on first syllable terms with him and I'm not that clear this sounds like everything he's said several times before and the uh undertoe of it is that everything now isn't in any way secure private encrypted yeah well and what's sort of is Instagram is not Facebook is not and what they're going to do is they're going to make all of these Services integrate with each other and talk to each other and you have to actually opt out to uh avoid having them talk to each other okay I'm wondering how many people out there in the real world know that Facebook owns uh either of those for it I mean I didn't until probably yeah until you actually I think you told me about it and like I remember gasping but I do that from time to time yeah well so the the thing is is that it wasn't that long ago you and I were talking about how Facebook had a data harvesting VPN app yes that had broken Apple's Enterprise rules ah that small thing yes Clos down all their software for a bit yes yes but they've learned their lesson now have they again yes I don't know how we'll know uh that they've learned it until it goes wrong again sometime but so what makes a data breach the worst breach of all time the worst of all time what to you would make the a data breach the worst data breach of all time uh if somebody could see my reading history in the Apple bookstore my Netflix Q uh some of my Apple music favorite playlists I'd be embarrassed about uh oh I suppose you know Bank details so if you're going to clean somebody out you're not going to start with my bank account are you so what about you is there something more well in in America we have something called a social security number of course you did which is is issued by the government you have a government ID don't you we have a government somewhere yes uh we have tax ID codes and things like that they're nowhere near common commonly needed to and you have you have NHS records right you have National Health Service records yes okay now losing one of those would be bad right uh I certainly see in the states that would be a big thing here it would be inconvenient but seriously the number of times we have to use a National Insurance number as it's called Uh hardly that matters so yeah I wouldn't noticed for quite a while this the problem the the social security number ends up being used as an ID number for a lot of things and it gets tied to our credit reports and our credit history and so it's um you know one of the ways that that when you apply to purchase something they check your credit or when you apply for a job they check your credit to see if you're responsible enough to be an employee or see if you're responsible enough to to purchase the thing you're trying to purchase sure right and if you have bad credit then you may not get hired over someone who does have good credit right never thought about it from employment side but that makes sense yes okay U it's it's really frustrating it's difficult because if you're trying to get back on your feet you can't get employment to get back on your feet it's a social problem right now to that end there are Credit Agencies in the US there's there's Equifax and some of these others right and they maintain the credit reports and when someone run your credit they run it with one of those agencies and and you know you're you're entitled in the US to run your credit with all of them once a year so you can make sure that what they have on you is correct okay yes similar thing here yeah okay so losing a social security number would be bad losing 145 million of them would be very bad did you look where you last put them no I can't find them so breach is a podcast that takes you inside the world's big biggest hacks how they're done who does them and what's really at stake when your private data is compromised and this season they're investigating the worst breach ever by Equifax and so if you wanted to you could listen to season 2 of breach the Equifax story this time it's personal subscribe to breach that's B Rea in your podcast app right now I I I'm going to do that because I think it's really interesting to hear what they find out about it I I I am very skeptical of the credit reporting agencies I'm kind of surprised that they haven't been replaced already by someone with a blockchain but sorry I'm just typing in breach podcast into my browser to make sure I've got it there there it is oh I'm having that okay um yes I understand okay uh but you're not going to tell me anything more about the 149 million whatever it was well I mean this was the last last year they they were exposed to having let out 145 million Social Security numbers they were breached and that was it was a little more complicated than that because it appeared as if there were people that were aware of it be when it happened that and they didn't release it until much later and so they were selling stock and things like that based on this infiniter information oh okay that's different wow okay right it's it's bad Every Which Way coming and going yes right well don't do that then don't lose all of them okay no don't lose all of them so yeah it's it's really problematic and you know what we do over here is we end up trying to place freezes on the credit so that people can't add things to them yeah I've had that here too yes but it's uh only as effective as as it can be right sorry my mind nightmareish because you know you're you're applying for a job let's say again and they want to do a credit run on you and they don't tell you which agency they're going to pull from and so you've got freezes at four agencies and they're like yeah we can't run your credit you can't be hired and you know sometimes they'll tell you that and sometimes they just won't and they won't hire you so you have to preemptively figure out which ecy they're going to use and unfreeze it just for that one or unfreeze all of them and be vulnerable during that time when you're trying to be hired right how you can which one they'll use well in in you know in my example um they really wanted to make the hire and so they tried three times and on the fourth one we unfroze the right account oh okay right that's got a want but if there were other exactly had there been other candidates that were just as strong that would have been it yeah well what a world we live in okay um I hope you whoever it was got whatever it was they were after and that all is fine now can you just tell me that all's fine now William Apple all is fine now okay let's not make that a thing okay oh all right all right now speaking about credit reporting and governments and things like that so Huawei is suing the US government they have filed a lawsuit right as you do as sue the entire government as as one does well no what so that's the suing the federal government is not that unusual you you tend to sue um you know you Su sue the government or you sue the Attorney General because they're acting on behalf of the government or something like so you'll read cases where where it says you know uh the party filing the lawsuit versus the um the person who happens to be the Attorney General at the time head of the justice department it's fairly common that's that part's not that unusual how common is winning that's difficult it happens I don't know that it happens quite a lot you we could have uh we could have one of my attorney friends T Greg duet who's been on this podcast before come on and talk about that if we wanted to okay I'm I am just curious to know because okay but uh what's making you say this now what's been happening well so huwe filed a lawsuit because they are not pleased with us government's purchasing ban on Huawei equipment oh yes okay so as a part of 20 8's National Defense authorization act which is a bill that goes through Congress pretty much every year it authorizes National Defense and then funding for it um they sometimes write in different requirements and different things in there and this this last year's got the notion that that they would limit government agency spending on certain products they prohibited certain telecommunications and video surveillance Services which restrict government agencies from purchasing equipment manufactured by huawe and ZTE and Huawei is saying that's unconstitutional that it is a a bill of attainer which is a legal term that says it's a legislative act that declares a person or prison is guilty of an act and punishes them without due process okay what are the odds of success well they're going to have to find a sympathetic court and they're going to have to present evidence and what the first question is is this a an act that declares them guilty of anything and punishes them without due process so what what are they being accused of being guilty of and then they're going to have to talk about that the the what they're saying is that Congress has repeatedly failed to produce any evidence to support their restrictions on Huawei products right what else is going on here I mean if the ODS of success are not great what's the benefit to them of making this suit F first of all they're Local Heroes in China they're Heroes and adding to that is that their CFO wanu Meg yeah is fighting extradition um from Canada to to the US right there they have charges for bank fraud wire fraud and violations of the international emergency economic Powers Act andac to commit money l oh these small things God people are so fuzzy yes yeah it's um it's part of the bigger fight is really what you're telling me I well multiple fronts I would say good phas now in addition to that there you know there's there's also prosecution alleged that Huawei conducted business operations in Iran through one of their um Affiliates skycom in violation of us sanctions on Iran and then lied about Partnerships and banking tied to that there are also charges that haa Personnel stole Trade Secrets relating to a T-Mobile robot called tappy sorry a T-Mobile robot called tappy yes and they sto trade secrets about the robot it was a secret but it isn't now well how the robot was made things like that they stole it right they stole the secet or at least let's be very clear they're alleged to have stolen the secet good point well caught I'm just thinking I would have kept the name a big secret as well if it was tappy but okay that's but that's T-Mobile not not doing yeah okay so so basically Hall is being quite busy these days what with that and the foldable phones their lawyers are going to do great right I actually I mean I know this is slightly off St but having said foldable phones to you having not seen either in the flesh I like the look of how one better than I do the Samsung one but uh there's a story this week on Apple Insider that actually I was involved um to do with Corning uh saying that they're working on foldable glass and this is this little image of glass that they've bent and it's just astounding that it can spring back again but it's still glass compared to the plastic or polymers I I have seen flexible glass in the past right I've seen this as a part of screen protectors where the demonstration was a a glass screen protector suspended at either end and a piston pushing on onto the center and showing the deflection and you could get a good 2 in of deflection before it broke okay which is an astounding amount it's a huge amount more than I would have imagined but is that the same as but it's not folding in half no it's not the same okay do you think this foldable stuff is just an expensive fad or what's going to happen next you have to think about use case right the the there are a couple difficulties the the phone form factor fits in our pockets mostly the form phone form factor is reachable by our hands mostly but there are times Where We crave larger screens clearly and so having a phone that collapses into being the form factor that fits in the pocket mostly and is reachable by our hands mostly but then can come out and expand into being something that's suitable for our eyes is is an interesting idea presuming that that's what we really need if that's the content we need if that's the size that we need I just kind of fancy one let's be absolutely clear about this U well the the biggest Factor besides does it actually work are is there content for it and is the operating system going to account for it right if if you've got an operating system that accounts for it but none of the apps are aware of it then it's junk if you've got an operating system that is aware of it but doesn't handle it well it's junk there there are a lot of things that have to come together for it to be useful really then by the sound of it what I'm waiting for is Apple to do it uh possibly yeah uh I don't know what they'll do Corning is interesting because Apple uses them all the time so Corning actually says they have shown foldable samples to companies one imagines that must include Apple um uh and if it is a glass case I I believe glass is better than the plastic polymers that's fine but when you say that about operating system and apps you know if Apple does this it'll do it completely there won't be apps no no there will be plenty of apps that straggle now Apple's app will get on board but you know getting app developers on board means that they'll be hit or missed that some of them will be available and launch day and some will straggle and some won't ever update at all I'm okay with that I think yeah as long as the for them to do it there there was a story I was reading last week or this week I was reading this week about people who wanted to fund a Kickstarter to create a fund to pay developers of classic IOS games to update their apps so they would continue to run actually can I stop you there because I wrote a story about that and I was talking with their PR people although that's exactly how I heard it that they were trying to get development to fund that what they now say is actually know they're self-funding they're doing it themselves what they want is to get the source code for these uh games and themselves develop them and get them I think I mean good luck to them that's slightly cheekier that's not exactly the holistic story I'd heard yeah I I think it's an Absolut great idea but until they tell us all the details I'm I'm really curious how it shakes out uh who gives you the source code who profits from any sales afterwards who has the rights I think they're underestimating the work and overestimating the demand so we'll see but I I love the idea so fingers crossed for them well so there's I mean it's important that classic games don't die and and this is part of you know the archive.org the internet archives mission is is besides preserving websites they also have an archive of classic games from many different computer systems and you know people say games come on why bother but I think there's an Artistry to them that that in terms of story in terms of user engagement in terms of pushing the limits of what systems were capable of at the time with 8bit graphics and 8bit music and that that art should not be lost I think whatever Gamers use now is what the rest of us come to use later so I'm interested for that so as a a writer I'm also I know people who write video games and they are so interesting about it but as it turns out I just personally I'm not much of a gamer are you um off and on I I have at different points throughout my life been heavily into it and then backed out and but but I I think that it really is an art form I I'm absolutely convinced of that and whether or not it appeals to you or engages you or captures your imagination in time is is down to a matter of taste and what you're willing to invest in in terms of time you know you might not be the person that says you're going to go and invest 2 hours listening to Opera at a performance you're not going to read the Operetta and you're not going to study the singers but other people do it doesn't make the art form any less valid Oh yes totally absolutely so uh preservation uh I'm absolutely for that although it just occurs to me I've noticed I have one game on my iPhone it's Sudoko uh suduku app it's on my iPhone it's on my iPad I play it quite a lot but that's it um yeah that's you gone off AG Birds then yeah you never quite got into that uh yeah the second movie yeah yeah yeah well but speaking about this you know one of the things to think about is where do these developers come from right we've got we've got people been making games for years but what inspires new people to do that well Tim Cook was at the White House and was talking about how coding and education is is pretty much tantamount to Student Success that they believe that it's a requirement in the US for every kid to have a coding before they graduate from from their uh uh primary and secondary school and be somewhat profession at it so they've got this Swift curriculum and they've distributed to all the schools in the US and 4,000 have picked it up now there obviously a lot more than 4,000 schools in the US but they they've done that and they've done that with 80 community colleges and they are pushing coding they are pushing Swift programming and that's that's kind of a big deal I think you know it's it I I want to address this a little bit right there's there are people that say everyone can code or everyone should code and you know it's it's not exactly accurate yes people can yes it should people should have some Proficiency in it just so we understand how things work and and that people should be able to find whether or not it's something that they that appeals to them but from time to time you know there these journalism layoffs you see people pile on as trolls and saying well they should go learn to code yes as if journalism was a worthless Pursuit right yeah so I I think it's one of those things where it it's not a um that is it's a valid skill that coding is a valid skill it's a necessary kind of skill to be at least familiar with even if you don't pursue it as a career I am actually in favor of what Apple's doing here I mean like it matters whether I am or not but uh I have certain problems with the whole thing because of two things I think I'm more British problems than worldwide there's been a fashion here for a few years for uh the government to say children must be able to code they must be able to code they've got to have it and then you ask one of the MPS here so what is coding and they fall apart they don't know it's a great buzzword to do it and then I'm afraid the other thing is I was in I work a lot in schools and one of them showed me an example of their coding and it is nothing like coding at all it is a graphical system of moving two blocks together and you that's it that's that's called MIT scratch language and it is coding okay I'm not incorrect cuz I was there and I saw it and it was certainly not MIT level and I don't mean I mean literally dragging one square next to another and telling me no there was no blocks in there it was a block of color on a screen they made a little image and told me that that was a code but it isn't no what does this code do a red block and a Blue Block well the different colored blocks the different blocks do different functions some of them are blocks some of them are sub routine blocks some of them are no these are the building blocks of programming and actually there are production systems that are programmed in this way you are being very generous to a primary school system which had none of this I encourage you strongly to after we're done recording go to code.org and I want you to do the first three lessons okay I've programmed in Swift before how about you come over to here I'll take you to the primary school and then you can say to me how this is in any way a code you can get to code.org faster than I can come over to the elementary schools there and I will come but I want you to go ahead and try that code.org because you'll see that it is blocks being used to create code and these are the foundations I think the problem here is I said blocks and you've taken it to mean blocks in some other context this thing I was shown in a school was not coding and it was being sold to the staff as if it was so this is all a lot of hype in the UK and you compare that to what apple is doing with the the Swift and Swift playgrounds that's real that's good and I like that I don't actually think everybody has to know how to code but I think the more you know of it the more you understand certain other things and also the thinking process is terribly useful critical thinking is so useful in so many things but I object to when it is hpe for the S of just ticking the odd box to say you've done something when you haven't so great good on Apple whoever provided this to this Primary School not so much I I think you need to go ahead and check out code.org I think you're making a mistake yes it's not the same as typing in the syntax in Swift but it is teaching these thought processes about order of operations and and repeating things and there's actually a great app that teaches this kind of stuff so there's a game called human resource machine and human resource machine requires you to use different operations to get uh boxes with numbers on them in the right order so that you can take them off the incoming conveyor belt and put them on the outgoing conveyor belt and it gets progressively harder and that is also teaching a programming thought process now it's not saying sub routines and it's not doing all this kind of stuff but it is it is teaching it is learning it just reminds me of of Lucy and the chocolate uh Factory line but okay yep yeah and it it it kind of does but give that one a shot too so those are my re homework here for me I am and it is for you and you are to do it okay um should warn you in advance uh I'm going to get a dog which might eat their homework but as long as you know no yeah no code.org and human resource machine check it out now half of Apple's us hires in 2018 their new hires lacked fouryear college degrees this is interesting because in in the past the way that it was always put was there's a college for everyone there's a university for everyone and everyone should go and get that degree and that if you can't get that degree then you know you might not get a job but the guarantee was that if you got a college degree if you got a University degree you would get a job that sort of guarantee has gone away in the past decade or so maybe even longer and it's really interesting that Apple is is publicly saying that half of their us employment last year were people that did not have a four-year degree and they're very proud of that is there any kind of breakdown of roles I mean how many are in Apple Store retail so forward facing Tamia management all this stuff there's not that breakdown I don't have that breakdown I can't find the answer to that on home pod sorry about that okay now th those employees range from sales Specialists managers Genius Bar staff um because Genius Bar staff anything in the retail side is more likely to have a higher turn is not other ones but but also at headquarters right I mean there there are plenty of ways to learn skills for programming that aren't required to be a four-year degree sure you know things like Lambda school for example there are a lot of interesting things going on I don't know what that at land you should look that one up you want more homework you look that up too okay I'm making a note right now can you tell yeah all right so yes well but this is good isn't it I mean well we have an issue here in UK that it's not that long since uh education University levels were free that we had a grant for it now we absolutely do not we have to pay everything Scotland is different Scotland still uh supports its students so that is changing the type of courses that people go for and honestly it sometimes surprises me that there's quite a lot of um uh there are a lot of very successful university courses in writing and writing is kind of half vocational half not the chances of getting a job after a writing degree are higher than after I imagine some of the more esoteric ones but not as high as say an engineering one or things I think the whole model of University to work it used to be at least here that the fact that you got a degree at all had taught you certain things and those things that taught you made you you know good in the workplace if it also happened that you followed your actual subject then so much the better now it seems here to be primarily vocationally driven and I think that's reducing the number of times people are going to University at all it sounds like it's the same in the States but it's kind of working out is that fair yeah uh not entirely certain but yeah okay well fingers okay now we talked in the past about San Diego right uh it's a fine fine place I'm sure I've driven through it I think they qualcomm's based there okay well there you go Qualcomm what's not yes bit busy these days I understand yeah keeping that in your mind Apple promised attire 1,200 tech jobs in San Diego by the year 2022 all right yes some hires coming the end of 2019 but 1,200 more jobs coming to San Diego you interesting huh you get to tell me that qualcom employs that exact number of people in that area nope I'm not telling you anything I'm going let you draw your own conclusions okay draw your own conclusions well William this this has been wonderful you've got homework to do and and I've got an episode to produce and I'm so so glad that we had all of our listeners here to join us for it cool well remember to test me next week I'll be absolutely ready for you okay thank you for having this nice talking to you and I'm really interest all the health stuff that I'm really going to go think about that that's Grand all right we'll be back next week I want to thank everyone for joining us uh I'm V marks on Twitter you're W Gallagher on Twitter and where else can people find you uh my favorite way actually is email uh William appleinsider.com that gets straight through to me and I just really enjoyed getting am us that way so fantastic we'll be back next week\n"