The TRUTH About Surface Duo with Panos Panay

The Allure of Embracing Imperfection: A CEO's Take on Fans and Technology

In today's fast-paced world of technology, it's easy to get caught up in the notion that perfection is the ultimate goal. However, as Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft, has come to realize, embracing imperfection can be a strength, not a weakness.

Nadella acknowledges the importance of having a clear mission statement and vision for one's company. For Microsoft, this means empowering every human and organization on the planet to achieve more. This mission statement serves as a guiding force for the company, driving its decisions and actions. Nadella believes that when a leader is deeply convinced in their vision and patient in executing it, they can create products like Duo that represent this commitment.

When it comes to engaging with fans, Nadella notes that he tries to stay connected through comments and messages. He wants to understand what his fans think about the company's products and mission. However, he also knows that sometimes it's hard to hear criticism or negative feedback. To mitigate this, Nadella has attempted to limit his exposure to certain types of content, such as videos that may criticize him or Microsoft.

One of the most striking aspects of Nadella's approach is his willingness to acknowledge his own limitations and biases. He recognizes that he can't be everywhere at once and that it's okay to say "I don't know" or "I need more time" when faced with a question or concern. This humility allows him to focus on what truly matters: creating products that align with Microsoft's mission and values.

Nadella also emphasizes the importance of taking risks and being open to new ideas. He notes that he's always looking for ways to innovate and push the boundaries of what's possible in computing devices. When he comes across something like Duo, it captures his imagination and inspires him to think about the future of technology.

Throughout the conversation, Nadella comes across as refreshingly human. He's willing to be vulnerable and share his own experiences, even when they're imperfect or uncomfortable. This approach allows him to build trust with his fans and create a sense of community around Microsoft's products.

As the conversation comes to a close, Nadella expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share his thoughts on this topic. He acknowledges the hard work and dedication that goes into supporting Microsoft's mission, and he thanks Lou, the host, for spending time with him. The article ends on a hopeful note, with Nadella passing along the insights he shared with the team at Microsoft, eager to continue exploring new ideas and products that will empower humans and organizations to achieve more.

The Power of Connection: Understanding Fan Feedback

In today's digital age, connecting with fans and customers is crucial for businesses like Microsoft. Satya Nadella has made it a priority to stay in touch with his audience through comments and messages on social media. This approach allows him to understand their concerns, likes, and dislikes, which can shape the company's future direction.

However, Nadella also knows that getting fan feedback isn't always easy. Sometimes, fans may come across as harsh or critical, which can be overwhelming for a leader like himself. To mitigate this, he tries to limit his exposure to certain types of content that might trigger strong emotions.

Despite these challenges, Nadella remains committed to listening to his fans and taking their concerns seriously. He believes that this approach is essential in building trust and loyalty with customers. By engaging with them on a human level, Microsoft can create products that truly meet their needs and exceed their expectations.

A CEO's Personal Story: Embracing Imperfection

As a leader, Satya Nadella has had his share of experiences that have shaped him into the person he is today. One of these experiences was when he first started out as a young engineer, eager to make a difference in the world of technology. He was driven by a desire to create something truly innovative and impactful.

Over time, Nadella's focus shifted from just creating products to empowering people to achieve more. This shift in perspective led him to develop Microsoft's mission statement, which has become a guiding force for the company. When he looks back on his journey, Nadella realizes that it was this commitment to his vision that allowed him to create something truly remarkable.

Duo: A Product of Perfectionism and Humility

When Satya Nadella talks about Duo, it's clear that he's genuinely excited about the potential it holds. For him, Duo represents a chance to bring Microsoft's mission statement to life in a tangible way. By creating a product that embodies this vision, Nadella hopes to inspire his fans and customers to achieve more.

At its core, Duo is a device that Nadella believes has the power to change people's lives. It's not just a product – it's an opportunity for humans to connect with each other in new and meaningful ways. As he sees it, this is what makes Duo so special: it's not just a device; it's a symbol of Microsoft's commitment to empowering every person on the planet.

The Future of Technology: A CEO's Vision

As we look to the future of technology, Satya Nadella is clear about his vision for Microsoft. He believes that the company should be at the forefront of innovation, pushing the boundaries of what's possible in computing devices. When he talks about Duo, it's clear that he's excited about the potential it holds – not just as a product but as a catalyst for change.

Nadella's approach to technology is centered around creating products that align with Microsoft's mission statement and values. He's willing to take risks and push the boundaries of what's possible in order to create something truly remarkable. By embracing imperfection and humility, Nadella is able to stay focused on what truly matters: empowering humans and organizations to achieve more.

Conclusion

Satya Nadella's conversation with Lou offers a refreshing perspective on the importance of embracing imperfection and taking risks in business. As a CEO, he knows that creating products like Duo requires a deep commitment to vision and values. By staying connected with his fans and customers, Nadella is able to create products that truly meet their needs and exceed their expectations.

As we look to the future of technology, it's clear that Satya Nadella will continue to lead Microsoft on its mission to empower every human and organization on the planet. With his commitment to innovation, humility, and connection, he's sure to inspire a new generation of leaders and entrepreneurs to follow in his footsteps.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: envery excited here today uh we've got Panos Panay from Microsoft on the show big things happening here talking of course about the latest device the new Surface Duo which I've been playing with for a while and honestly I get excited anytime I'm kind of interacting with a new form factor and anytime I get an opportunity to play with something that is not a slab of glass just the same thing done over again I've seen that obviously almost a thousand times on the channel for the for the amount of time that I've been doing this and I understand that this device is sort of your baby is that is that fair to say I I think it's probably good a good characterization I kind of get in trouble at homeless sometimes when I say these are like my children because especially especially when the kids watch if that makes sense like it's uh yeah right right but yeah I think it's a representation uh yeah of the whole team's kind of investment at the end of the day like there's an amazing team that works on this these products but yeah it is near and dear to my heart it's been yeah yeah it's emotional for sure it's my dating for yeah I think I could say well I mean I think it kind of it's so different and new that it's gonna it would it would require somebody to sort of push it through or a team as you mentioned because it is so different from what's out there and I'm sure uh most people's approach would be to sort of look at what's happening in the marketplace and sort of approaching a new device with that in mind but this is so different from what's out there that uh for me I sort of imagined it as being it would have to be somebody's passion project to put this through fair enough I think uh you're right it's it is different enough that it takes a little bit of conviction a little bit of uh um you know a team had a vision yeah they're amazing and I I believe in the I believe where we wanted to take the industry off this topic like it's a big deal Lou you gotta look you gotta look at what do people want to do what are they trying to do uh how can we make things easier for them we always talked about it that way like what is it what are what are the needs of what are the needs of you know people consumers uh any pick your customer segment but that's a pretty important element where once you sort of see where you want to take things it does take conviction in investing in technology you know investing in a new form factor and standing behind where we think it's different uh and and how important it is to enable different things to happen I think we're seeing it we're seeing that don't get me wrong there's plenty of people who will throw doubt at it there's plenty of people who will uh have opinions that are like I don't get it it's fine but ultimately yeah it takes it takes a it takes a little bit of vision it takes some vision and conviction and then ultimately if it's Anchored In if it's if it's anchoring in customers if it's anchored in the people you believe are going to go after it and use it and it'll make a difference in their lives we get pretty you know we get pretty jacked up it's something where uh we get excited I I personally get to this point of like wow we're gonna make a difference uh we can we can drive change yeah that's inspiring and then you watch this team kind of roll into it and and believe in what they're building and making and by the way five six years in the making this isn't like we had an idea right last October I got on stage and then said hey check it out here it is uh that's not how it really works and you iterate it right and uh here we are talking to you and so I'm I'm curious do you look at this device as a phone do you call it a phone is it a phone I get in trouble I get in trouble man with this question I gotta be honest I've answered it plenty of different ways so like somebody should go get the excerance like what what has he said right it just depends you know I look at it as a surface and that's my mind it's not that's not even like a trick that's not a like a marketing tool it's none of that it's like this is how we talk about this is surface it's a product that's going to adapt to what you need to do period and that hinge allows it the thinness allows it to fitting in your pocket enables it the idea that I can move around with it stay connected at all times and all of a sudden you're like well what what's my phone for if I have a surface Duo so then ask the question do you think it's a phone sure at that point if you feel like a mental model if you think I'm going to replace my phone with Duo you should it gets transformative I believe uh and so to be clear though for you for you it is your phone it is like this is I I mean I carry two phones uh or I had to carry two phones for the longest time now I carry two of these um and quite frankly I only need one now it's super fascinating like uh calendar and mail side by side is a big deal for me Instagram and Twitter uh YouTube and Instagram at the same time like these are things that I could only at one point um you know mailing calendar on my on my PC to get things done and just know where I'm at because I'm moving you know so fast and connecting with others but now it's kind of it's It's transformed how I'm operating Lou like this is it this is my phone now I don't have a problem saying that's where I kind of get in trouble like you just said it wasn't a phone like I promise you know I promise you for many it will be their phone for others it'll be a replacement for their tablet you know and and for many it'll be the second phone like I totally get it uh I do think though that once you here's a here's the thing with this product when you first use it it depends how you intend to use it uh it will either take you longer to to learn or shorter and depending on how you use it if you if you take your primary Sim out you put it in this you put it in the duo it will become your phone and within a week it will be the only thing you can use and and it will transform how you're doing things if you choose to you know use it as a tablet it'll take a little longer on the learning curve the engagement models where you engage in I think can eventually it migrates to being your phone so yeah I think it'll be different for most people for me you know it's my phone yeah so then then I get to this part for me where I'm thinking about the foldable market like we've got all these new devices emerging that are sort of taking their own approach towards uh what this next device is going to be so I also have a problem calling all these things phones because I Envision kind of where they might go and and sort of see them as futuristic Computing devices myself I'm speaking on the phone less and less in the traditional sense and so I've obviously played with Samsung's latest device I've uh well played with another foldable device which I've got a video coming out soon which I can't really mention there's so many different approaches to these kind of con pocketable convertible things now what makes yours different is you've done this dual screen approach instead of attempting to bend an OLED display like others have what is the mindset there why dual display instead of a folding oh I get stuck on foldable when you see it I kind of go foldable right uh we looked at foldable they just we didn't go that direction we didn't we didn't actually want to land and foldable here let me give you some context yeah don't get me wrong it's going to get categorized all over the place following foldable tablet two three it's okay like that's going to happen we don't nobody really controls that but I will say um our intent was dual screen like we have this Rich history of understanding multi-mod this Rich history of multitasking two apps at the same time on Windows we understand like how people engage better uh especially when it's structured and framed for them and what we found was there were a couple elements in a folding screen I mean that's just a closed product and an open product and then there's management of Windows and how do you get things where you want them uh really love love the the concept and then we actually study do you know we study brain waves we study patterns uh where we like we understand that when people put two screens side by side their brain lights up differently it just does and it it you you can engage uh get more done tasks uh you can get more done faster but it's also you know this is the weird weird part it's less stressed to do it that way and so the concept of windowing is not new especially for for Microsoft but the idea that you can put two windows if you will or screen side by side and get them in your pocket wow that was powerful and then when we started the studying and the belief and moving from one screen to the other and connecting those two things that even started to validate where we were going and then ultimately the thing that we talked in I think you saw it but the hinge being able to go back 360 degrees and take the call if you needed to and and then close it when you were done um yeah both those Concepts were vital to what this product was going to be all right then pause like you we have this belief in dual screen the architecture had to be invented to get it right the hinge had to be invented over multiple Generations um you you saw the launch videos I'm sure but a little bit of you saw pavin and Jazz and talk about the depth of engineering that came uh the years to get to this thinness all that great what we realize as we study and work through the scene down the middle of this product tends to be the thing that I celebrate more than anything because it is the structure that's needed for the two screens side by side for us so you can launch two things they they place where you would expect them to place um and then you engage it's a very powerful kind of concept for somebody who's using it and gets into it it's almost uh it's got this it's got this quality where once you learn it you're in and now you want to browse and text now you want to have a call you and me having this call and on the other side I want to just stay informed and connected with somebody else I want to watch a video um maybe talk about what I'm watching I want to edit a video all these things started to come to life and that out of your pocket and that was mind-blowing now go back to foldable so your original question like so but then there's foldable like yeah I think that's an opening and closing screen and it's limited to what we wanted then then the architecture around it was you didn't actually get that structure of two screens you have to create that it doesn't mean it can't be created it's an extra step but maybe it's complex it's not I have not used the products you're using so I don't you know I'm not I I can't comment but I will tell you that fundamentally uh we looked at both what we can accomplish and what we think is better for the user is what we ran after and we you know dug into well I can speak a little bit about well having experimented with all these different new devices and one thing that stands out to me about your product is how polished it feels the hardware where the folding OLED has a kind of a wow factor to see it Bend at the same time there's a almost a little bit of apprehension for the user about how solid it is or long-term durable or whether it's even the final form of that Tech yeah as opposed to holding the surface Duo which it feels robust solid it feels uh further along in the generation than a first generation product well I mean it probably speaks to the fact that you guys have been working on it for so long it's not necessarily your first gen product especially from a hardware standpoint I mean it's a good point we we have this uh it was important to us that this emote that this product was emotional when you picked it up and felt emotion like you like they're not the product itself but the human that grabbed it and that meant we had to push kind of the boundaries of uh thinness the hinge uh the radii like what you can what you're solving for here I mean if I'm here's my camera right there and then when you fold it back like that perfectly flat piece because when it's in your pocket we didn't want this bulge we didn't want this bulk we also wanted large enough screen so when you did open it you had this whoa I got so much content did I really just take this out of my pocket look at how much I have that's all emotional in many ways but then when you pick it up you feel the thinness and honestly the build quality uh it's the best leave accomplished in surface and uh there's a team like it takes so much pride in this you're the mechanical engineers the double E's the industrial designers they're they are in uh together and refusing to compromise you know and and it took years to get to that point and it's taken generations of other products and that history to show up in this product so you can feel that but what you also understand is and you saw this little like the thinness comes from the fact that there is no radius here on the hinge there is no bulge or bulk it is you put it together put it next to a regular phone or a slab as you said you're going to kind of see they're about the same thickness when this is closed with two screens that was the that was the goal and then when you opened it there was this emotional connection you can either hold it like a book you can fold it backwards it'll adapt to you all that's true and the hinge is uh it gives you that you know that kind of car door feeling like it just robust that high-end car door like you open it close it you're like wow I know I can trust it those are elements yeah actually actually I think it's even better than a lot of car doors because it stops at any point as opposed to finding those those stop points I do have I have a slightly nicer car that does stop at any point like this hinge but that costs a lot more money than that it's super delightful right like that that yes absolutely yeah so we have a couple incredible NES mechanical engineers that work on this product like incredible and the the friction based hinge and what it is uh you know like if you sat through some of these reviews and the design points and yeah uh the care and love that goes into the the every element every part of the angle now the trick is though is the device understanding what angle it's sitting at now that's the software Hardware integration like it's you've got it we got to know we got to know what the user's intention is we almost have to predict it many times and that also is a process so you got to perfect the hardware and then you got to bring the software along and that's what makes a product of course but uh bring those two things together has been has been delightful and and uh almost feel like uh I may be you know I don't want to be um overstated but really it's this this team is pretty incredible what they're what they're able to accomplish so I have a functional question for you I've been using a device for a while myself but probably nowhere near well definitely nowhere near the amount of time that you've been using it do you ever take it in the sort of folded this way I don't know if you can see that open the open fold do you ever put it in your pocket like that but locked yeah um yes it just depends what I'm doing like if I'm there are a ton the answer is yes more times than not I leave it in phone mode is what this is called that's how I leave it and um you gotta be careful because I've got messages here and I don't want you know it's amazing it's amazing what people pause and and zoom in on the oh trust me I've experienced it many times in my mind when I get a phone call what were you thinking holy I was just using my product uh I've had to change my phone number if you can imagine I can imagine yeah yeah I'm sorry I'm so sorry uh the I use it this way uh more times than not there are times though uh so like if I'm am I I'm at Costco which seems to be my super you know that's like my date night with Mary these day my wife and we need like Costco's where we go uh right I will close it put it in my pocket and just chill and that kind of actually shuts things down for me it's it's uh it's quite nice it's different and I can I get a vibration or I know if I'm getting a call if I'm wearing my earbuds I'll take it but it really when I want to close it I close it but outside of that like no even by my nightstand I'm I put it down like this um just so I can get my glanceables and it's just like my phone all right now you you can start questioning like how how well does it fit in your hand and if you're going to use it all the time that way um my my primary typing posture when I'm in foam mode is just two thumbs on the device and going full speed and so I can respond quickly and just stay engaged but like you said I'm not taking a lot of calls anymore yeah well actually the the reason for the question was sort of around that digital detox concept you know the phone the typical smartphone is always in open mode it's all sort of always there when you place it on place it on a table pull it out of your pocket it's constantly inviting you to interact with it and this kind of shares something with laptops in the sense that when you close the lid you're done with it for a bit at least spot on spot on like good for you uh thank you there's something when we designed the product was closure now my team doesn't like when I say this publicly but closure matters like sometimes you just want to be done um four kids no when I believe me like there's plenty to do at all times but I love this idea like when we sit down to play fortnite I shut my Duo and put it down and we sit next to each other my daughter and I she's 10 and she's better than I am in every sense but we jump in actually you can't disturb me as opposed to watching my screen light up and they go oh wait wait I'm missing something and that digital detox you talked about have you experienced this I I'm sure you have have you been in a conversation with somebody who's wearing a now watch yeah and then next you know they they're talking they're actually talking and they look down at their watch and you can see they come out of float their brain twists they read what they said then they come back up you feel that emotional disconnect and then you kind of have to catch back up you gotta like yeah there's like pause and like where was I uh some are better than others at re-engaging you know I to your point of that detox like I don't think it's getting better right now like in many ways you know we're getting informed at all times and you know it's disruptive and it help takes us out of our flow sometimes as humans that are connected even in video calls now you know during as we work through covid and we spend so much time on our PCS you'll see people glancing their phones or their watch while they're talking to you you can feel that that's not like a missed emotion or a misconnection between people we don't dismiss that we see eyes move we then take those microtels on the other side we use them are they listening to me are they just not interested oh did they get over interrupted should I pause and ask them if they need a minute like all those things kind of pull us out so one of the things that duo does is you want to connect you want to be connected closing it matters and I'm not over indexing on it but it's real for sure um now to that point this is the learning curve of the product if you're used to a phone in your pocket and you're addicted to that glanceable nature of it addictive might not be the right word I'll probably get in trouble for that I think it's the right word I think it's absolutely Fair work but let's just say that's it that's what you do is you always you know you're like just check am I missing something I'm missing missing uh there is a learning curve to not have that available to you and the longer you use this product the more you actually respect that and appreciate it but at first you're like I promise I just want to get to the information I want to know when it's coming in I remember getting that feedback when we first started or uh I I just need to know when information is passing through I'm like you probably do and if use Duo and when it's closed it's closed if it doesn't work for you then don't it's okay like but then the answer is you can use it fold it back and and that's that's okay too like it's a phone at that point but I do love the concept of digital detox I do love the concept of it sometimes we need to be with each other Lou um and some yeah I feel that I mean the the example that you used of the smart watch it's the reason I'm using a semi Smartwatch right now with all notifications turned off because it would be that thing when you sort of turned off your phone then that one would pick up where your phone left off and it was sort of having the unintended effect that you were mentioning where it could just hijack a moment and that's it's becoming harder and harder to protect those protect those moments and so I was aware of it and actually put those devices away for that purpose now obviously there are some people who manage it better and are able to for sure have only the key notifications come through or they get that you get better at ignoring it but there is kind of a strange training process with those devices that by default out of the box they want to hit you with everything and there's a there's a biological feedback to that buzz that pulls you back into the sort of digital realm and outside out of the the real one it's fascinating look and you're right people there's many people that manage it well there's many people that love it um and fall in love with it which is cool like like for me that like as a as a team uh as a product maker as a team of product makers like when somebody falls in love with their product and they need it that's awesome um and when they want it come on thank you do you celebrate that for sure you made a difference but but yeah you know this is it's just a concept and and it's uh it resonates when you tell me like it resonates when you talk about it it's cool that you pick up on it now another key difference that I noticed with this product compared to some of the I guess you could maybe comparables that are out there is that this device doesn't make a big deal of the camera in the same way that other devices do I mean even if I'm looking at the Samsung folding product it's still got a huge kind of massive camera hump on the back now for good reason in their case they're trying to have a Flagship level there's a zoom camera in there and it's just a huge Focus for those devices for most smartphones this one on the other hand kind of hides the camera well like a lot of the other things when it's closed there's no nothing really staring back at you but obviously there's a compromise there if you're going to have a tiny little camera module and only a single camera unit then some users some potential buyers are good that's going to be a consideration for them so what was the thinking behind that decision why not have some giant camera hump on the device I think for the things you kind of you've already said it I mean you let your it's a good leading question and you've kind of resolved it for yourself the focus wasn't the camera the focus was too screens side by side like and then once you start designing a product for that you start realizing what's most important which include the thinness the Elegance the ability to fold it back not getting caught in a wedge because there's a huge bump on the back of the product and I can't put it in my pocket the way we just talked about it really is it about the camera nope I mean if you really wanted a premium camera premium is not the right word this is a premium camera you can take some great pictures with it but if you wanted to go speed feed compare you know a master Zoom class and kind of you you know push the boundaries of cameras uh that wasn't where we were going to put our energy it was it it results in too many trade-offs on the product from thinness to weight to what's really being used for which is the most important thing and uh ultimately that 360 degree hinge then get compromised and then the principle of the product kind of goes starts to fall down and you realize you're chasing a speck and don't get me wrong that spec you know or that camera more than a spec that amazing cameras by the way on some of these devices like crazy Cool Tech uh it look it it if it's important in the most critical thing for you if you're buying a camera and there's a phone with it the awesome like there's plenty of products but it's also hard when you say panels is it a phone I'm like once I say yes you're like well the camera sucks man I'm like well that's a camera yeah if it was a phone but isn't it funny how phones and cameras are synonymous with one another makes perfect sense uh and it's a need for many but really at the end of the day the product takes great photos and it's amazing for front-facing camera which is where we put our energy like you're going to be on a team's call a zoom call you're going to get into any one of the apps you want that are two-way and WhatsApp you're going to use snap like then we have a great front-facing camera we're working on eye gaze we're bringing it to Duo so you're going to connect with the people even closer from Duo to Duo like we've got these amazing Focus areas that are about this this experience I should probably pick up my device but like it's about this and you're uh when you as a team and as a as a group of product makers and and for myself it's it is fundamentally like what is the one thing this product's going to deliver like you've got to stay there you want to make a beautiful product you want that emotional moment you don't know how delightful it was to watch you pull that thing out of the box and go whoa what is this that matters man look that matters like it totally matters yes and and then the robustness you're talking about in the field like all that comes together seamlessly and you know there's some there's moments where you make decisions on what the product will be and what the product won't be and to your point when you kind of made that call and I know don't get me wrong I've gotten plenty of feedback uh it's it's first thing I get asked and what about my camera I'm like let's flip it backwards and take a photo then call me and like and then tell me how great of a photographer you are like and how how much you really need and if you need a high-end High you know if you needed to go get like um true photography lessons or whatever it is or go get the perfect photo like I think there's plenty of products that can do that for you and I I never I would never talk bad about those products I I purposely don't use many of them because I don't want to have an opinion but I also because I get asked a lot and it's better for me from a genuine sense to not you know have to sugarcoat but uh I think it's gonna be for people when they go to buy duo or invest in it or be part of the duo family or the surface family yeah that'll be a decision point do I want the two screens and do I want the productivity that it brings do I want this adaptability do I want tent mode do I want to be able to sit on an airplane and just hold this thing and watch it on this massive screen and beautiful do I want to be able to keep it in my pocket screen all the things that you get yeah you'll have to ask yourself do I also but but I need the camera bumps so what do I do now or do I want the camera to bump I'm just going to say that not to be rude just in simple form and that'll be a trade-off that people have to make when they're when they're coming after this product but I think you nailed it you know it's about about the thinness about the Elegance about the folding it's about what the product was designed for to be used by people well it's all part of the relationship it's all part of I mean in some ways the way you go on to use the device think about the device talk about the device it it'll depends on that initial interaction it's so true so true that's why when you when you pull due out of the box the first time uh I'm just I was anxious you know you're like okay well actually to be honest with you I think this device sort of requires real reactions maybe more so than it requires the typical let's say review process and the reason being is because the review process as we've seen it kind of emerge on the web and through video it sometimes struggles with emotion yeah any emotion is such a big part of uh sort of what we extract from these devices and the work that goes into them and reviews on the other hand tend to look more at a spec sheet or you know being comprehensive getting all the details in but sometimes the details or a list of details doesn't properly Encompass a product and what it means or how it behaves and so pulling this out of the box and capturing the initial moment of interaction is closer for me to how a potential customer should think about it because holding it is different than seeing it and that's a difficult thing by the way to express or to put into a video there's no other way than capturing it live and then it's up to the viewer to determine okay that's his reaction that's how he's feeling about it that's his initial feedback and then they're closer to how the same experience might feel for them yeah that's what I love about us it's genuine I'm like more and more people are emotionally connecting to the products that they're using for sure I wouldn't say that was the case you know seven years ago but I would tell you now like it's part of it's part of who we are it's on us all the time it's meaningful and whether it's a PC or a phone it matters and we're starting to see it more you're right that emotional connection I also believe in this a little bit you know I get here I end up here every time but you know these products reflect the people that are making them and this like the team's going to put all its energy in I want people to take all the energy out of it that use them and uh with and that's why it that's where you get a Relentless team that's where you get Relentless people looking at every detail and it matters um I don't want to say sorry to you oh I know that kind of that part that part wasn't perfect sorry but the rest is cool right like that just that's like man you Misses a point like but there's a hole in your shirt yeah I know but look at the rest of my shirt and so there's just an element of Truth to keeping people engaged connected and kind of Encompass but you're right it's been hard to express like pick it up uh and feel it turn on the screens and look at them you know before you take the shot and I don't get it you know it's it it's missing this spec this feed this point that I needed how could you possibly do that like just first pick it up and then read a book on it then yeah it's there's a thing about it there's a kind of a balance there's a balanced feeling when you hold it which is very difficult to Showcase in video there's a lightness to it obviously the insane thinness of it which without a reference point to some other phone just seeing the product images it's hard to know how different that is but uh that's sort of the aim obviously for me in my video and having the reaction in there is to try to portray some of those intangible pieces that are just tougher to write down yeah I think it's why you're having such a great impact like it matters you you know uh right now my my kids 2017-14 they're watching they're watching creators like yourself and they're leaning into the opinion because it's just genuine it's real um and you know we're not we don't read as much as we used to maybe definitely like I know my kids they'll read their book at night and I love that you know and it but when they want info if they want to learn they're moving to YouTube you know they're moving to insta they're using for me you know our team and and my my family Edge and getting on the web and just getting the videos off there like so this is just reality and it's it's fun to see and actually can I just say this like it's really a kind of a it's an honor to be just talking to you today like it's humbling it's super humbling and and a little bit frightening and also like I get to represent my team the the team uh our team like that team has killed themselves like in so many different ways uh I guess that's what that sense but they they've they put so much in and to be able to represent it as nice so I appreciate you having me on cool yeah of course no the feeling is likewise there appreciate having you here too I think it's going to be insightful for a lot of uh audience members to sort of get your perspective and and hear it from the other side because people who have been watching my videos they always well they get to see the reaction they get to see the analysis but I'm always trying my best to come from a place of appreciation come from a place of respect for the work that goes into something especially recently the longer I've been doing this the more I've been able to recognize how difficult it is to make things and especially to make things that are different or new or to I mean this is a risk these These are these are risky moves and so I I try to I try to put some of that in there but ultimately having you on is is going to be the best way for people to get a better sense of the behind the scenes the effort the energy the commitment and so forth anyway I wanted to ask you one more thing just about the the decision to go with Android to create a to have a relationship with Google here to I mean as a famous maybe the most famous software company out there there was a Windows phone uh there I remember first hearing about The Courier project I don't was that 2010 or something a long long time ago I mean I've been kind of following the thing along as many Tech enthusiasts have and then you get to a point where I guess there's a recognition and I mean I'm I don't want to put words in your mouth but that Android is the thing that's in people's pockets and that okay here we are as Microsoft but we're gonna have to collaborate on this device I just want to hear a little bit more about the background on that I've got a bunch of party lines for you if you want them but let me just spare you those and jump into like background at the end of the day like even talking with saty we sat down we want to meet our customers where they are that sounds like a line but it's not it's true uh it's just it's real like that's where they are and uh you don't want to reinvent that there's no point at this point they're there because the apps are there and they're there because it's a great platform it turns out you know Microsoft's one of the largest isvs on Android as it as it were we have so many apps that are built for Android and you put all that together and you're like Wow Let's Make a great product what is this product so that's maybe it's an Android OS it's got our Microsoft you know energy into it and then fundamentally we're optimizing the apps that people use from Microsoft on the product we call it the best of Microsoft and and that was the design point for the product it was the best of Microsoft and the Android you know let's put those together and that and the dream there was hey would would Google be interested in that you know that's an interesting just alone I didn't make that many friends when we started this process like it's not like everybody's like this makes perfect sense you should do this I mean don't like like you know it takes it takes time to leave like a leader like Satya to push that envelope and say we adopt all platforms for sure let's let's now you know practice what we're preaching it's true and making an end-to-end product with another platform that was a little bit especially from the leader who runs Windows like that's you know not I don't know that everybody was excited but the truth is it's the product you need right now and that's what I believe it has the apps that you need uh and Android's so flexible to help us with that adaptability for for users like it's it's super cool now on top of that it gives an extra focus on making the Microsoft properties on Android Grit so you know think about office think about teams think about Edge you know you can just go all the way down the list news to do OneNote all these apps that come to life on Android um even management apps for commercial customers like there's just opportunity to get closer to the customer which by the way what surface did uh a lot for Windows will just get us closer to the lives that we want to change you know to hear what people are saying like straight up and now we're going to get that same filter from Duo and um it's it's I don't know it's hard to say but it's the right platform for this product yeah people have Android in their pocket it matters yep and and what I think is funny enough we've kind of we've been living in a space where and I've experienced this firsthand being on the web talking about tech we've been living in a space where tech companies have to be enemies and have to have their fans exclusively and their fans have to be at war with everybody all the other fans or the and it gets exhausting at a certain point and what might to some at first glance be like okay they've made the concession here that you know this is some sort of point of weakness or someone could perceive it that way but in reality it's it might be a strength to be able to look at it and say and be honest and to start with the customer instead of maybe Pride let's say yeah I think I think it's fair let me give you two sides to that I just because I need to acknowledge what you said about fans uh but I also want to just share the the that acknowledgment um think about Microsoft's mission statement for a minute it's we we thrive on this we believe in it we want to empower every human and organization on the planet to achieve more I mean that's that's a huge statement but we're pretty it's meaningful it matters like if you know having a mission in life that vision for who you are what you want to be and then but you can that that matters and it translates to what you're doing at work especially and to be able to say uh we have a mission that's to help every human achieve more then take that and then me talking about putting Duo on Android is not crazy it's where people are it's what we need it's what they're it's what it's what will help that mission so take a leader like me that gets very convicted in in vision and where we're headed and patience on that journey and you can kind of see Duo represent that pause go to fans for a minute dude let's be clear I it is hard for me to read when one of my fans or a Microsoft fan or a Windows fan sends me a note you know telling me what they think you know like the what have you done um and then I only hope like I hope they get the product and they use it they go oh my gosh this is an awesome Microsoft product it's a Microsoft product using an Android platform but it's a Microsoft product you will feel surface you you felt when you pick it up you will know its surface and and I think our fans will be delighted once they start to understand connect that mission um of empowering everyone uh to achieve what they want to achieve and then connect it to this product and you can see it like you can literally see it tie that to a fan sometimes there's a there's a few it believe me I don't know if you do this but I try not to I I read as much as I can to be respectful of the people who who put energy back into what I do I won't watch I won't watch this video I can't I won't read articles that maybe I'm quoted and that's hard but I read my comments I read what fans are saying because I have to stay connected to people using the products and it matters to me but boy I gotta tell you sometimes it's hard you know sometimes it's you get those moments you're like I think I want to just call this human right away by the way that early on I tried a few times a very bad idea very bad like it doesn't there's it's a bit you can't it doesn't scale yeah well you know what I think uh I think you're gonna make a lot of fans happy with this one you have something special you have something different and believe it or not that's in my job where I'm sort of always looking for that next thing I'm looking to be inspired in what I do in the videos that I shoot in the devices that I have the opportunity to interact with this one sort of captured my imagination it got me back into the realm of thinking about futuristic Computing devices not necessarily be being stuck on the form factors that currently exist devices like this are the reason I got into this in the first place I mean the kid version of me is Alive and Well when I get the opportunity to interact with things like this I want to thank you for joining us here and being a part of this video I think it's going to be really insightful to uh to a lot of viewers out there to unbox therapy fans to Microsoft fans so thank you so much and hopefully we can do this again sometime hey I'm appreciative I'm grateful like I said it's humbling to be on here representing Microsoft like it's a big deal Lou you're doing a hell of a job by the way thank you for spending the time with us uh and I'll be sure to kind of pass a lot of this through to the team so they can kind of get the feeling the filters that you've given us I appreciate that awesome all right you take care yeah you too see youvery excited here today uh we've got Panos Panay from Microsoft on the show big things happening here talking of course about the latest device the new Surface Duo which I've been playing with for a while and honestly I get excited anytime I'm kind of interacting with a new form factor and anytime I get an opportunity to play with something that is not a slab of glass just the same thing done over again I've seen that obviously almost a thousand times on the channel for the for the amount of time that I've been doing this and I understand that this device is sort of your baby is that is that fair to say I I think it's probably good a good characterization I kind of get in trouble at homeless sometimes when I say these are like my children because especially especially when the kids watch if that makes sense like it's uh yeah right right but yeah I think it's a representation uh yeah of the whole team's kind of investment at the end of the day like there's an amazing team that works on this these products but yeah it is near and dear to my heart it's been yeah yeah it's emotional for sure it's my dating for yeah I think I could say well I mean I think it kind of it's so different and new that it's gonna it would it would require somebody to sort of push it through or a team as you mentioned because it is so different from what's out there and I'm sure uh most people's approach would be to sort of look at what's happening in the marketplace and sort of approaching a new device with that in mind but this is so different from what's out there that uh for me I sort of imagined it as being it would have to be somebody's passion project to put this through fair enough I think uh you're right it's it is different enough that it takes a little bit of conviction a little bit of uh um you know a team had a vision yeah they're amazing and I I believe in the I believe where we wanted to take the industry off this topic like it's a big deal Lou you gotta look you gotta look at what do people want to do what are they trying to do uh how can we make things easier for them we always talked about it that way like what is it what are what are the needs of what are the needs of you know people consumers uh any pick your customer segment but that's a pretty important element where once you sort of see where you want to take things it does take conviction in investing in technology you know investing in a new form factor and standing behind where we think it's different uh and and how important it is to enable different things to happen I think we're seeing it we're seeing that don't get me wrong there's plenty of people who will throw doubt at it there's plenty of people who will uh have opinions that are like I don't get it it's fine but ultimately yeah it takes it takes a it takes a little bit of vision it takes some vision and conviction and then ultimately if it's Anchored In if it's if it's anchoring in customers if it's anchored in the people you believe are going to go after it and use it and it'll make a difference in their lives we get pretty you know we get pretty jacked up it's something where uh we get excited I I personally get to this point of like wow we're gonna make a difference uh we can we can drive change yeah that's inspiring and then you watch this team kind of roll into it and and believe in what they're building and making and by the way five six years in the making this isn't like we had an idea right last October I got on stage and then said hey check it out here it is uh that's not how it really works and you iterate it right and uh here we are talking to you and so I'm I'm curious do you look at this device as a phone do you call it a phone is it a phone I get in trouble I get in trouble man with this question I gotta be honest I've answered it plenty of different ways so like somebody should go get the excerance like what what has he said right it just depends you know I look at it as a surface and that's my mind it's not that's not even like a trick that's not a like a marketing tool it's none of that it's like this is how we talk about this is surface it's a product that's going to adapt to what you need to do period and that hinge allows it the thinness allows it to fitting in your pocket enables it the idea that I can move around with it stay connected at all times and all of a sudden you're like well what what's my phone for if I have a surface Duo so then ask the question do you think it's a phone sure at that point if you feel like a mental model if you think I'm going to replace my phone with Duo you should it gets transformative I believe uh and so to be clear though for you for you it is your phone it is like this is I I mean I carry two phones uh or I had to carry two phones for the longest time now I carry two of these um and quite frankly I only need one now it's super fascinating like uh calendar and mail side by side is a big deal for me Instagram and Twitter uh YouTube and Instagram at the same time like these are things that I could only at one point um you know mailing calendar on my on my PC to get things done and just know where I'm at because I'm moving you know so fast and connecting with others but now it's kind of it's It's transformed how I'm operating Lou like this is it this is my phone now I don't have a problem saying that's where I kind of get in trouble like you just said it wasn't a phone like I promise you know I promise you for many it will be their phone for others it'll be a replacement for their tablet you know and and for many it'll be the second phone like I totally get it uh I do think though that once you here's a here's the thing with this product when you first use it it depends how you intend to use it uh it will either take you longer to to learn or shorter and depending on how you use it if you if you take your primary Sim out you put it in this you put it in the duo it will become your phone and within a week it will be the only thing you can use and and it will transform how you're doing things if you choose to you know use it as a tablet it'll take a little longer on the learning curve the engagement models where you engage in I think can eventually it migrates to being your phone so yeah I think it'll be different for most people for me you know it's my phone yeah so then then I get to this part for me where I'm thinking about the foldable market like we've got all these new devices emerging that are sort of taking their own approach towards uh what this next device is going to be so I also have a problem calling all these things phones because I Envision kind of where they might go and and sort of see them as futuristic Computing devices myself I'm speaking on the phone less and less in the traditional sense and so I've obviously played with Samsung's latest device I've uh well played with another foldable device which I've got a video coming out soon which I can't really mention there's so many different approaches to these kind of con pocketable convertible things now what makes yours different is you've done this dual screen approach instead of attempting to bend an OLED display like others have what is the mindset there why dual display instead of a folding oh I get stuck on foldable when you see it I kind of go foldable right uh we looked at foldable they just we didn't go that direction we didn't we didn't actually want to land and foldable here let me give you some context yeah don't get me wrong it's going to get categorized all over the place following foldable tablet two three it's okay like that's going to happen we don't nobody really controls that but I will say um our intent was dual screen like we have this Rich history of understanding multi-mod this Rich history of multitasking two apps at the same time on Windows we understand like how people engage better uh especially when it's structured and framed for them and what we found was there were a couple elements in a folding screen I mean that's just a closed product and an open product and then there's management of Windows and how do you get things where you want them uh really love love the the concept and then we actually study do you know we study brain waves we study patterns uh where we like we understand that when people put two screens side by side their brain lights up differently it just does and it it you you can engage uh get more done tasks uh you can get more done faster but it's also you know this is the weird weird part it's less stressed to do it that way and so the concept of windowing is not new especially for for Microsoft but the idea that you can put two windows if you will or screen side by side and get them in your pocket wow that was powerful and then when we started the studying and the belief and moving from one screen to the other and connecting those two things that even started to validate where we were going and then ultimately the thing that we talked in I think you saw it but the hinge being able to go back 360 degrees and take the call if you needed to and and then close it when you were done um yeah both those Concepts were vital to what this product was going to be all right then pause like you we have this belief in dual screen the architecture had to be invented to get it right the hinge had to be invented over multiple Generations um you you saw the launch videos I'm sure but a little bit of you saw pavin and Jazz and talk about the depth of engineering that came uh the years to get to this thinness all that great what we realize as we study and work through the scene down the middle of this product tends to be the thing that I celebrate more than anything because it is the structure that's needed for the two screens side by side for us so you can launch two things they they place where you would expect them to place um and then you engage it's a very powerful kind of concept for somebody who's using it and gets into it it's almost uh it's got this it's got this quality where once you learn it you're in and now you want to browse and text now you want to have a call you and me having this call and on the other side I want to just stay informed and connected with somebody else I want to watch a video um maybe talk about what I'm watching I want to edit a video all these things started to come to life and that out of your pocket and that was mind-blowing now go back to foldable so your original question like so but then there's foldable like yeah I think that's an opening and closing screen and it's limited to what we wanted then then the architecture around it was you didn't actually get that structure of two screens you have to create that it doesn't mean it can't be created it's an extra step but maybe it's complex it's not I have not used the products you're using so I don't you know I'm not I I can't comment but I will tell you that fundamentally uh we looked at both what we can accomplish and what we think is better for the user is what we ran after and we you know dug into well I can speak a little bit about well having experimented with all these different new devices and one thing that stands out to me about your product is how polished it feels the hardware where the folding OLED has a kind of a wow factor to see it Bend at the same time there's a almost a little bit of apprehension for the user about how solid it is or long-term durable or whether it's even the final form of that Tech yeah as opposed to holding the surface Duo which it feels robust solid it feels uh further along in the generation than a first generation product well I mean it probably speaks to the fact that you guys have been working on it for so long it's not necessarily your first gen product especially from a hardware standpoint I mean it's a good point we we have this uh it was important to us that this emote that this product was emotional when you picked it up and felt emotion like you like they're not the product itself but the human that grabbed it and that meant we had to push kind of the boundaries of uh thinness the hinge uh the radii like what you can what you're solving for here I mean if I'm here's my camera right there and then when you fold it back like that perfectly flat piece because when it's in your pocket we didn't want this bulge we didn't want this bulk we also wanted large enough screen so when you did open it you had this whoa I got so much content did I really just take this out of my pocket look at how much I have that's all emotional in many ways but then when you pick it up you feel the thinness and honestly the build quality uh it's the best leave accomplished in surface and uh there's a team like it takes so much pride in this you're the mechanical engineers the double E's the industrial designers they're they are in uh together and refusing to compromise you know and and it took years to get to that point and it's taken generations of other products and that history to show up in this product so you can feel that but what you also understand is and you saw this little like the thinness comes from the fact that there is no radius here on the hinge there is no bulge or bulk it is you put it together put it next to a regular phone or a slab as you said you're going to kind of see they're about the same thickness when this is closed with two screens that was the that was the goal and then when you opened it there was this emotional connection you can either hold it like a book you can fold it backwards it'll adapt to you all that's true and the hinge is uh it gives you that you know that kind of car door feeling like it just robust that high-end car door like you open it close it you're like wow I know I can trust it those are elements yeah actually actually I think it's even better than a lot of car doors because it stops at any point as opposed to finding those those stop points I do have I have a slightly nicer car that does stop at any point like this hinge but that costs a lot more money than that it's super delightful right like that that yes absolutely yeah so we have a couple incredible NES mechanical engineers that work on this product like incredible and the the friction based hinge and what it is uh you know like if you sat through some of these reviews and the design points and yeah uh the care and love that goes into the the every element every part of the angle now the trick is though is the device understanding what angle it's sitting at now that's the software Hardware integration like it's you've got it we got to know we got to know what the user's intention is we almost have to predict it many times and that also is a process so you got to perfect the hardware and then you got to bring the software along and that's what makes a product of course but uh bring those two things together has been has been delightful and and uh almost feel like uh I may be you know I don't want to be um overstated but really it's this this team is pretty incredible what they're what they're able to accomplish so I have a functional question for you I've been using a device for a while myself but probably nowhere near well definitely nowhere near the amount of time that you've been using it do you ever take it in the sort of folded this way I don't know if you can see that open the open fold do you ever put it in your pocket like that but locked yeah um yes it just depends what I'm doing like if I'm there are a ton the answer is yes more times than not I leave it in phone mode is what this is called that's how I leave it and um you gotta be careful because I've got messages here and I don't want you know it's amazing it's amazing what people pause and and zoom in on the oh trust me I've experienced it many times in my mind when I get a phone call what were you thinking holy I was just using my product uh I've had to change my phone number if you can imagine I can imagine yeah yeah I'm sorry I'm so sorry uh the I use it this way uh more times than not there are times though uh so like if I'm am I I'm at Costco which seems to be my super you know that's like my date night with Mary these day my wife and we need like Costco's where we go uh right I will close it put it in my pocket and just chill and that kind of actually shuts things down for me it's it's uh it's quite nice it's different and I can I get a vibration or I know if I'm getting a call if I'm wearing my earbuds I'll take it but it really when I want to close it I close it but outside of that like no even by my nightstand I'm I put it down like this um just so I can get my glanceables and it's just like my phone all right now you you can start questioning like how how well does it fit in your hand and if you're going to use it all the time that way um my my primary typing posture when I'm in foam mode is just two thumbs on the device and going full speed and so I can respond quickly and just stay engaged but like you said I'm not taking a lot of calls anymore yeah well actually the the reason for the question was sort of around that digital detox concept you know the phone the typical smartphone is always in open mode it's all sort of always there when you place it on place it on a table pull it out of your pocket it's constantly inviting you to interact with it and this kind of shares something with laptops in the sense that when you close the lid you're done with it for a bit at least spot on spot on like good for you uh thank you there's something when we designed the product was closure now my team doesn't like when I say this publicly but closure matters like sometimes you just want to be done um four kids no when I believe me like there's plenty to do at all times but I love this idea like when we sit down to play fortnite I shut my Duo and put it down and we sit next to each other my daughter and I she's 10 and she's better than I am in every sense but we jump in actually you can't disturb me as opposed to watching my screen light up and they go oh wait wait I'm missing something and that digital detox you talked about have you experienced this I I'm sure you have have you been in a conversation with somebody who's wearing a now watch yeah and then next you know they they're talking they're actually talking and they look down at their watch and you can see they come out of float their brain twists they read what they said then they come back up you feel that emotional disconnect and then you kind of have to catch back up you gotta like yeah there's like pause and like where was I uh some are better than others at re-engaging you know I to your point of that detox like I don't think it's getting better right now like in many ways you know we're getting informed at all times and you know it's disruptive and it help takes us out of our flow sometimes as humans that are connected even in video calls now you know during as we work through covid and we spend so much time on our PCS you'll see people glancing their phones or their watch while they're talking to you you can feel that that's not like a missed emotion or a misconnection between people we don't dismiss that we see eyes move we then take those microtels on the other side we use them are they listening to me are they just not interested oh did they get over interrupted should I pause and ask them if they need a minute like all those things kind of pull us out so one of the things that duo does is you want to connect you want to be connected closing it matters and I'm not over indexing on it but it's real for sure um now to that point this is the learning curve of the product if you're used to a phone in your pocket and you're addicted to that glanceable nature of it addictive might not be the right word I'll probably get in trouble for that I think it's the right word I think it's absolutely Fair work but let's just say that's it that's what you do is you always you know you're like just check am I missing something I'm missing missing uh there is a learning curve to not have that available to you and the longer you use this product the more you actually respect that and appreciate it but at first you're like I promise I just want to get to the information I want to know when it's coming in I remember getting that feedback when we first started or uh I I just need to know when information is passing through I'm like you probably do and if use Duo and when it's closed it's closed if it doesn't work for you then don't it's okay like but then the answer is you can use it fold it back and and that's that's okay too like it's a phone at that point but I do love the concept of digital detox I do love the concept of it sometimes we need to be with each other Lou um and some yeah I feel that I mean the the example that you used of the smart watch it's the reason I'm using a semi Smartwatch right now with all notifications turned off because it would be that thing when you sort of turned off your phone then that one would pick up where your phone left off and it was sort of having the unintended effect that you were mentioning where it could just hijack a moment and that's it's becoming harder and harder to protect those protect those moments and so I was aware of it and actually put those devices away for that purpose now obviously there are some people who manage it better and are able to for sure have only the key notifications come through or they get that you get better at ignoring it but there is kind of a strange training process with those devices that by default out of the box they want to hit you with everything and there's a there's a biological feedback to that buzz that pulls you back into the sort of digital realm and outside out of the the real one it's fascinating look and you're right people there's many people that manage it well there's many people that love it um and fall in love with it which is cool like like for me that like as a as a team uh as a product maker as a team of product makers like when somebody falls in love with their product and they need it that's awesome um and when they want it come on thank you do you celebrate that for sure you made a difference but but yeah you know this is it's just a concept and and it's uh it resonates when you tell me like it resonates when you talk about it it's cool that you pick up on it now another key difference that I noticed with this product compared to some of the I guess you could maybe comparables that are out there is that this device doesn't make a big deal of the camera in the same way that other devices do I mean even if I'm looking at the Samsung folding product it's still got a huge kind of massive camera hump on the back now for good reason in their case they're trying to have a Flagship level there's a zoom camera in there and it's just a huge Focus for those devices for most smartphones this one on the other hand kind of hides the camera well like a lot of the other things when it's closed there's no nothing really staring back at you but obviously there's a compromise there if you're going to have a tiny little camera module and only a single camera unit then some users some potential buyers are good that's going to be a consideration for them so what was the thinking behind that decision why not have some giant camera hump on the device I think for the things you kind of you've already said it I mean you let your it's a good leading question and you've kind of resolved it for yourself the focus wasn't the camera the focus was too screens side by side like and then once you start designing a product for that you start realizing what's most important which include the thinness the Elegance the ability to fold it back not getting caught in a wedge because there's a huge bump on the back of the product and I can't put it in my pocket the way we just talked about it really is it about the camera nope I mean if you really wanted a premium camera premium is not the right word this is a premium camera you can take some great pictures with it but if you wanted to go speed feed compare you know a master Zoom class and kind of you you know push the boundaries of cameras uh that wasn't where we were going to put our energy it was it it results in too many trade-offs on the product from thinness to weight to what's really being used for which is the most important thing and uh ultimately that 360 degree hinge then get compromised and then the principle of the product kind of goes starts to fall down and you realize you're chasing a speck and don't get me wrong that spec you know or that camera more than a spec that amazing cameras by the way on some of these devices like crazy Cool Tech uh it look it it if it's important in the most critical thing for you if you're buying a camera and there's a phone with it the awesome like there's plenty of products but it's also hard when you say panels is it a phone I'm like once I say yes you're like well the camera sucks man I'm like well that's a camera yeah if it was a phone but isn't it funny how phones and cameras are synonymous with one another makes perfect sense uh and it's a need for many but really at the end of the day the product takes great photos and it's amazing for front-facing camera which is where we put our energy like you're going to be on a team's call a zoom call you're going to get into any one of the apps you want that are two-way and WhatsApp you're going to use snap like then we have a great front-facing camera we're working on eye gaze we're bringing it to Duo so you're going to connect with the people even closer from Duo to Duo like we've got these amazing Focus areas that are about this this experience I should probably pick up my device but like it's about this and you're uh when you as a team and as a as a group of product makers and and for myself it's it is fundamentally like what is the one thing this product's going to deliver like you've got to stay there you want to make a beautiful product you want that emotional moment you don't know how delightful it was to watch you pull that thing out of the box and go whoa what is this that matters man look that matters like it totally matters yes and and then the robustness you're talking about in the field like all that comes together seamlessly and you know there's some there's moments where you make decisions on what the product will be and what the product won't be and to your point when you kind of made that call and I know don't get me wrong I've gotten plenty of feedback uh it's it's first thing I get asked and what about my camera I'm like let's flip it backwards and take a photo then call me and like and then tell me how great of a photographer you are like and how how much you really need and if you need a high-end High you know if you needed to go get like um true photography lessons or whatever it is or go get the perfect photo like I think there's plenty of products that can do that for you and I I never I would never talk bad about those products I I purposely don't use many of them because I don't want to have an opinion but I also because I get asked a lot and it's better for me from a genuine sense to not you know have to sugarcoat but uh I think it's gonna be for people when they go to buy duo or invest in it or be part of the duo family or the surface family yeah that'll be a decision point do I want the two screens and do I want the productivity that it brings do I want this adaptability do I want tent mode do I want to be able to sit on an airplane and just hold this thing and watch it on this massive screen and beautiful do I want to be able to keep it in my pocket screen all the things that you get yeah you'll have to ask yourself do I also but but I need the camera bumps so what do I do now or do I want the camera to bump I'm just going to say that not to be rude just in simple form and that'll be a trade-off that people have to make when they're when they're coming after this product but I think you nailed it you know it's about about the thinness about the Elegance about the folding it's about what the product was designed for to be used by people well it's all part of the relationship it's all part of I mean in some ways the way you go on to use the device think about the device talk about the device it it'll depends on that initial interaction it's so true so true that's why when you when you pull due out of the box the first time uh I'm just I was anxious you know you're like okay well actually to be honest with you I think this device sort of requires real reactions maybe more so than it requires the typical let's say review process and the reason being is because the review process as we've seen it kind of emerge on the web and through video it sometimes struggles with emotion yeah any emotion is such a big part of uh sort of what we extract from these devices and the work that goes into them and reviews on the other hand tend to look more at a spec sheet or you know being comprehensive getting all the details in but sometimes the details or a list of details doesn't properly Encompass a product and what it means or how it behaves and so pulling this out of the box and capturing the initial moment of interaction is closer for me to how a potential customer should think about it because holding it is different than seeing it and that's a difficult thing by the way to express or to put into a video there's no other way than capturing it live and then it's up to the viewer to determine okay that's his reaction that's how he's feeling about it that's his initial feedback and then they're closer to how the same experience might feel for them yeah that's what I love about us it's genuine I'm like more and more people are emotionally connecting to the products that they're using for sure I wouldn't say that was the case you know seven years ago but I would tell you now like it's part of it's part of who we are it's on us all the time it's meaningful and whether it's a PC or a phone it matters and we're starting to see it more you're right that emotional connection I also believe in this a little bit you know I get here I end up here every time but you know these products reflect the people that are making them and this like the team's going to put all its energy in I want people to take all the energy out of it that use them and uh with and that's why it that's where you get a Relentless team that's where you get Relentless people looking at every detail and it matters um I don't want to say sorry to you oh I know that kind of that part that part wasn't perfect sorry but the rest is cool right like that just that's like man you Misses a point like but there's a hole in your shirt yeah I know but look at the rest of my shirt and so there's just an element of Truth to keeping people engaged connected and kind of Encompass but you're right it's been hard to express like pick it up uh and feel it turn on the screens and look at them you know before you take the shot and I don't get it you know it's it it's missing this spec this feed this point that I needed how could you possibly do that like just first pick it up and then read a book on it then yeah it's there's a thing about it there's a kind of a balance there's a balanced feeling when you hold it which is very difficult to Showcase in video there's a lightness to it obviously the insane thinness of it which without a reference point to some other phone just seeing the product images it's hard to know how different that is but uh that's sort of the aim obviously for me in my video and having the reaction in there is to try to portray some of those intangible pieces that are just tougher to write down yeah I think it's why you're having such a great impact like it matters you you know uh right now my my kids 2017-14 they're watching they're watching creators like yourself and they're leaning into the opinion because it's just genuine it's real um and you know we're not we don't read as much as we used to maybe definitely like I know my kids they'll read their book at night and I love that you know and it but when they want info if they want to learn they're moving to YouTube you know they're moving to insta they're using for me you know our team and and my my family Edge and getting on the web and just getting the videos off there like so this is just reality and it's it's fun to see and actually can I just say this like it's really a kind of a it's an honor to be just talking to you today like it's humbling it's super humbling and and a little bit frightening and also like I get to represent my team the the team uh our team like that team has killed themselves like in so many different ways uh I guess that's what that sense but they they've they put so much in and to be able to represent it as nice so I appreciate you having me on cool yeah of course no the feeling is likewise there appreciate having you here too I think it's going to be insightful for a lot of uh audience members to sort of get your perspective and and hear it from the other side because people who have been watching my videos they always well they get to see the reaction they get to see the analysis but I'm always trying my best to come from a place of appreciation come from a place of respect for the work that goes into something especially recently the longer I've been doing this the more I've been able to recognize how difficult it is to make things and especially to make things that are different or new or to I mean this is a risk these These are these are risky moves and so I I try to I try to put some of that in there but ultimately having you on is is going to be the best way for people to get a better sense of the behind the scenes the effort the energy the commitment and so forth anyway I wanted to ask you one more thing just about the the decision to go with Android to create a to have a relationship with Google here to I mean as a famous maybe the most famous software company out there there was a Windows phone uh there I remember first hearing about The Courier project I don't was that 2010 or something a long long time ago I mean I've been kind of following the thing along as many Tech enthusiasts have and then you get to a point where I guess there's a recognition and I mean I'm I don't want to put words in your mouth but that Android is the thing that's in people's pockets and that okay here we are as Microsoft but we're gonna have to collaborate on this device I just want to hear a little bit more about the background on that I've got a bunch of party lines for you if you want them but let me just spare you those and jump into like background at the end of the day like even talking with saty we sat down we want to meet our customers where they are that sounds like a line but it's not it's true uh it's just it's real like that's where they are and uh you don't want to reinvent that there's no point at this point they're there because the apps are there and they're there because it's a great platform it turns out you know Microsoft's one of the largest isvs on Android as it as it were we have so many apps that are built for Android and you put all that together and you're like Wow Let's Make a great product what is this product so that's maybe it's an Android OS it's got our Microsoft you know energy into it and then fundamentally we're optimizing the apps that people use from Microsoft on the product we call it the best of Microsoft and and that was the design point for the product it was the best of Microsoft and the Android you know let's put those together and that and the dream there was hey would would Google be interested in that you know that's an interesting just alone I didn't make that many friends when we started this process like it's not like everybody's like this makes perfect sense you should do this I mean don't like like you know it takes it takes time to leave like a leader like Satya to push that envelope and say we adopt all platforms for sure let's let's now you know practice what we're preaching it's true and making an end-to-end product with another platform that was a little bit especially from the leader who runs Windows like that's you know not I don't know that everybody was excited but the truth is it's the product you need right now and that's what I believe it has the apps that you need uh and Android's so flexible to help us with that adaptability for for users like it's it's super cool now on top of that it gives an extra focus on making the Microsoft properties on Android Grit so you know think about office think about teams think about Edge you know you can just go all the way down the list news to do OneNote all these apps that come to life on Android um even management apps for commercial customers like there's just opportunity to get closer to the customer which by the way what surface did uh a lot for Windows will just get us closer to the lives that we want to change you know to hear what people are saying like straight up and now we're going to get that same filter from Duo and um it's it's I don't know it's hard to say but it's the right platform for this product yeah people have Android in their pocket it matters yep and and what I think is funny enough we've kind of we've been living in a space where and I've experienced this firsthand being on the web talking about tech we've been living in a space where tech companies have to be enemies and have to have their fans exclusively and their fans have to be at war with everybody all the other fans or the and it gets exhausting at a certain point and what might to some at first glance be like okay they've made the concession here that you know this is some sort of point of weakness or someone could perceive it that way but in reality it's it might be a strength to be able to look at it and say and be honest and to start with the customer instead of maybe Pride let's say yeah I think I think it's fair let me give you two sides to that I just because I need to acknowledge what you said about fans uh but I also want to just share the the that acknowledgment um think about Microsoft's mission statement for a minute it's we we thrive on this we believe in it we want to empower every human and organization on the planet to achieve more I mean that's that's a huge statement but we're pretty it's meaningful it matters like if you know having a mission in life that vision for who you are what you want to be and then but you can that that matters and it translates to what you're doing at work especially and to be able to say uh we have a mission that's to help every human achieve more then take that and then me talking about putting Duo on Android is not crazy it's where people are it's what we need it's what they're it's what it's what will help that mission so take a leader like me that gets very convicted in in vision and where we're headed and patience on that journey and you can kind of see Duo represent that pause go to fans for a minute dude let's be clear I it is hard for me to read when one of my fans or a Microsoft fan or a Windows fan sends me a note you know telling me what they think you know like the what have you done um and then I only hope like I hope they get the product and they use it they go oh my gosh this is an awesome Microsoft product it's a Microsoft product using an Android platform but it's a Microsoft product you will feel surface you you felt when you pick it up you will know its surface and and I think our fans will be delighted once they start to understand connect that mission um of empowering everyone uh to achieve what they want to achieve and then connect it to this product and you can see it like you can literally see it tie that to a fan sometimes there's a there's a few it believe me I don't know if you do this but I try not to I I read as much as I can to be respectful of the people who who put energy back into what I do I won't watch I won't watch this video I can't I won't read articles that maybe I'm quoted and that's hard but I read my comments I read what fans are saying because I have to stay connected to people using the products and it matters to me but boy I gotta tell you sometimes it's hard you know sometimes it's you get those moments you're like I think I want to just call this human right away by the way that early on I tried a few times a very bad idea very bad like it doesn't there's it's a bit you can't it doesn't scale yeah well you know what I think uh I think you're gonna make a lot of fans happy with this one you have something special you have something different and believe it or not that's in my job where I'm sort of always looking for that next thing I'm looking to be inspired in what I do in the videos that I shoot in the devices that I have the opportunity to interact with this one sort of captured my imagination it got me back into the realm of thinking about futuristic Computing devices not necessarily be being stuck on the form factors that currently exist devices like this are the reason I got into this in the first place I mean the kid version of me is Alive and Well when I get the opportunity to interact with things like this I want to thank you for joining us here and being a part of this video I think it's going to be really insightful to uh to a lot of viewers out there to unbox therapy fans to Microsoft fans so thank you so much and hopefully we can do this again sometime hey I'm appreciative I'm grateful like I said it's humbling to be on here representing Microsoft like it's a big deal Lou you're doing a hell of a job by the way thank you for spending the time with us uh and I'll be sure to kind of pass a lot of this through to the team so they can kind of get the feeling the filters that you've given us I appreciate that awesome all right you take care yeah you too see you\n"