**The Toyota 86: A Reliable yet Expensive Option**

A gorgeous Toyota 2000gt it looks good enough to stay stock and with a few add-ons you can really set it off. You'd think with a big aftermarket this uniformity would be fixed but most eight-six's end up with Valente taillights RPF ones and an Instagram handle under the c-pillar.

**The Nissan S14: A Blank Canvas**

A month ago we posted a poll on Twitter asking about the OEM looks of the S 14 and Eight-six. A lot of people commented with some rational opinions, with 61% for the Nissan and 39 percent for the Toyota. A big thanks to my fellow Donut host Zach job for stepping in to help talk about the Silvius, his S 14 has an RB25 in it, and it is Huit.

**The Cost of Owning a Silvia**

If you want to see more of that car check out his Show Money Pit every Wednesday on Donut Media where he's gonna be working on that his MX-5 and hopefully a bunch of my cars as well. Round five value in the final round, we are gonna look at the actual cost of buying one of these cars and what you get for the money.

Straight away, the Eight-six seems more expensive. It's newer, it's got more comforts as standard, and it hasn't been replaced by a new model yet to drive the price down. If you're in the market for an eight-six, you're looking at an average of about $14,000 US dollars. Salvage ones have come down maybe as low as $8 grand without any major body damage.

**The Value of Owning a Silvia**

New ones fresh off the lot can be as much as $30 grand. I'm gonna tell you right now I love my FRS, but I wouldn't spend $30 grand on one of these. But if a brand new car is your thing and you want to track-worthy coupe, there's literally no better option.

This is one of the cheapest new coupes and as far as bang for your buck it was called car of the year by Top Gear. Best drivers car by Auto Car, a top 10 pick by Car and Driver, and it's also an IIHS Top Safety Pick. What about the Silvia? Has the dreaded drift tax really made them that expensive?

**The Drift Tax**

Well yes, there are people that are asking nearly $20 grand for a car older than my space clean as for teens are selling for almost as much as the original MSRP. These aren't stock cars though they're usually already SR20 swaps or full of aftermarket parts that in and of itself is a gamble.

**The Project Car Option**

But the Silvia is a blank canvas right, so what about for a project car where you can find a few that haven't been built out but even then a mostly stock S 13 that's just old, you're still looking at above $4 grand and 4s 14s even more.

**The Drift Tax: A Real Issue**

While you can have fun with a Ka 24 in stock suspension, you'll end up spending more than the Eight-six to get the car where you want it. The drift tax is a real thing. People think you know we've had a lot of fun here today but you know what's not fun the drift tax.

**Helping to Reduce the Cost of Silvias**

But there is a way that you can help play down the S chassis for just one post today. We can all drive down the cost of Silvias and maybe just maybe we won't be shelling out more than $5k for a roller project car with a cracked gas tank together we can make a difference.

**The Value of Owning an Eight-six**

So now we know what the Silvia costs but what about the value? What are you getting for the money since the Silvia is a blank canvas, you only get out of it what you put into it. It's amazing that these cars have not only held on to but in some cases gained value.

They're mean-looking but understated they're flexible in space but stiff in chassis and once the S15 can be imported maybe the rest of them will finally drop in price. The Eight-six is great value for money, and if you buy one I guarantee we'll have a good time.

**What About the New 2021 Silvia?**

But what do you think will the new 2021 eight-six change the debate? Will my FRS engine eventually blow up? Let us know in the comments below. Be sure to follow Donut Media on Twitter, Instagram, be sure to check out the past cast podcast on our podcast channel tomorrow and I'll be back here next week.

WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enmotorsport is not cheap and drifting is no exception but if you want to get into that slide a boy action in an entry-level JDM coupe of your own you've got a choice to make do you go with the tried-and-true drift icons that sit on the Nissan s chassis or do you go with the young buck bet against the street and back the fresh blood of the 86 platform even though they're from different eras these two chassis have a lot in common they're both lightweight rear-wheel drive coupes from Japan praised for their ability to get around the track sideways and punch above their featherweight status you've ever wondered which of these is better well today is the day you get to find out it's the Nissan Silvia versus the Toyota 86 some people in the office don't think I can stay impartial on this one maybe it's because I Drive an FRS and I've only ever owned Toyotas who can say but I'd love I love the Silvius and against the 86 it's a matchup of weekend warrior JDM hardtops that put precision steering and chassis balance over power we've got five rounds to look at performance reliability mods looks and value both the Sylvia and the 86 were designed to be affordable rear-wheel drive cars that light a spark with young enthusiasts and let you have a little fun on your commute to work they don't have a ton of power stock but where they both shine is in balance handling and controllability in round one we are going to look at both these cars in terms of performance from the factory in 2020 the 86 starts with a slight advantage it's only seven years old used ones are under a hundred thousand miles and if you wanted you could get a brand new one with Bluetooth the rear view camera and a g-force meter you get some creature comforts over the 90s car sure but in terms of performance the main thing that's going to stand out is the suspension and the transmission the short-throw 6-speed that comes with the 86 is crisp and smooth the suspension was continuously tested to deliver the best combo of performance and comfort this car comes from the factory pretty much ready to hit the track at least in terms of suspension the Silvia is a car of the 90s and you'd expect it to be a little less refined which is true but the feeling that you are getting is more tactile and responsive part of this is due to the multi-link rear suspension compared to the double wishbone suspension of the 86 the multi-link suspension is more adjustable and more forgiving while still being planted and giving a stiff rear end the 86 is set up great from the factory and it outperforms the Silvia in ideal grip conditions but if you start to mess with it for better drifting the 86 is going to be harder to get right engine wise the Silvia outside of the US got an all aluminum sr20 engine this four banger was chucking out around 200 horsepower with later versions making up to 250 horsepower with an upgraded turbo but that version was for Japan Australia and New Zealand only though so good for you guys in the US of A the Silvia got the K a 24 engine which coughed up only a hundred and fifty-five horsepower from the dual overhead cam version and even less from the single cam the 86 utilized a naturally aspirated flat four from Subaru a direct fuel injection system from Toyota and the engineering know-how of the chief engineer of the LFA but many people have been vocal about the disappointing lack of power from the eight-six the current eight-six makes 205 naturally aspirated horsepower Toyota was adamant that the car stay n/a for a pure driving experience and because of that the throttle response of the 86 is immediate and precise but the 86 has a disappointing torque dip right in the middle of the rev range the car doesn't wake up again until 4500 rpm that even the single cam ka 24 engines were making more torque and we need torque right right but power isn't what makes these cars fun one of the things that helps these cars get around corners in either a drift or grip configuration is the differential the Silvia came with a viscous limited-slip differential which is a very comfortable and daihlia belay to still get some skids however it doesn't lock up fully and VLS d's are really affected by heat on top of that lower trims of the silvia came with an open diff so you got to make sure you're buying the right one the 86 on the other hand came from the factory with a Torsen LSD mechanical LSD s can react much faster than VL s DS and they require less maintenance they are all around better for aggressive driving and keeping your car doing what it's supposed to do on top of that the 86 has a more ideal center of gravity the weight distribution is a near-perfect 50/50 and the boxer engine helps keep that weight down low to reduce body roll not all of a car's cornering ability comes from the suspension and dip though drift cars and grip cars both need a solid predictable chassis to perform well the S 14 is an improvement stiffness Y's over the S 13 it's wider longer and lower but neither chassis can quite match up with the level of rigidity of the more modern 86 the S 15 might give the 86 a run for its money but with a limited availability I can't give it as much weight in this argument as I am the S 13 and s 14 both chassis x' though sit at about the same kerb weight came from the factory with similarly skinny tires and have a wielding round 2 reliability it doesn't matter how sideways these cars can get if the engine goes pop we are going to take a look in this round at reliability of these two cars and the likelihood of having a big problem similar to the last round the 86 might start with a slight advantage just from being a newer car even if both cars came from the factory with the exact same chassis z' engine suspension and electronics a 30 year old car would have more issues than a 7 year old car but the Silvia came from an era of Japanese economic stability that built some of the strongest most reliable power plants that put current engines to shame the KA 24 engine of the u.s. sylvia's may not be all that powerful but it is a workhorse Nissan mechanics say that with some regular valve adjustments 200,000 miles isn't a big ask the iron block of the ka 24 means that it can take more abuse than the high compression Subaru fa20 the engine in the 86 was supposed to be less of a ticking time bomb than the ej platform of the WRX but driving it hard in the heat has still occasionally resulted in a spun bearing or engine knock which is why anyone who takes an 86 to the track will recommend an oil cooler first on top of that some 2013 models shipped with weak valve springs and luckily those were recalled but when Toyota had to take apart this sube engine that was all like sideways and flat they didn't always put it back together right some 86 s had engine failure 500 miles after the recall so many failures were reported that there was a class action lawsuit against Toyota and Subaru this scared plenty of owners away from getting the recall done and there are still a few 2013's floating around with those bad valve springs to add insult to injury the ka 24 is not the only Silvia engine we're looking at the sr20 is known to make two hundred and fifty thousand miles with little beyond standard maintenance besides maybe a new timing chain and a MAF sensor it's also got hydraulic lifters so it doesn't even need the valve regulation that the ka 24s do the sr20 wasn't available in the US but so many people have done the swap and it's still OAM so that's the engines but what about the rest of the car this is where the Silvia really starts to show its age the plastics inside are brittle and flimsy cracked rim crack - broken bezels are really common all the plastics are getting harder and harder to find in good condition that may not sound like a big deal until you realize that the gas tanks are plastic as well you get cracks one of those and you better hope you can junkyard dive a solid one because fixing it is a pain I know that sounds like I'm being a little nit picky on the Silvius and in the interest of fairness the 86 does have some minor issues as well like if you remove the front bumper ever even if the dealership does it after a few times you're gonna get bumper sag the body panels won't match up as well and side markers will start to like pop out left and right mine does it and it's annoying also there's the crickets even though it's only a noise issue the fa20 engine is known to develop a chirping sound for like no reason before we get in the next round though I just want to say thank you so much for supporting this show thank you for supporting donut make sure that you're up to date on everything we've got because we've got a lot more coming your way round 3 modifications both these cars are great from the factory and even though they've got a few shortcomings they can easily be fixed or accidently made worse if you start wrenching around and adding mods to your car the aftermarket for both the 86 and the silvia are enormous there are companies that do all their business just serving these two communities for Lite mods you can find and build almost anything with these two new parts are being made for both and options are plentiful the biggest difference with these two cars comes when you try and build power any Silvia's and 86's aren't likely to push past 250 horsepower you can go for aftermarket force induction but that's always expensive and there are turbo versions of the sr20 and fa20 from the factory if you want a silvia with an OEM turbo the swap will be pretty much plug and play for the 86 however this is not the case the WRX engine isn't a direct swap like the sr20 is in fact there are no direct swaps for the 86 platform if you want to make boost in an 86 you're gonna be looking at an aftermarket kit which is expensive also your reliability will be way down compared to the OEM and even if you're boosted fa20 was reliable it still doesn't compare to the sr20det when it comes to building power the stock internals can handle up to 400 horsepower which for a four-cylinder aluminum block is really good so from here the next step in power for both is the engine swap both cars are great candidates for engine swaps and you can find some really crazy swaps out there a skilled mechanic and maybe a fabricator can do almost any swap they want but what if you're not what if you're like me and your knowledge of working on cars comes from youtube videos and you're staring down the barrel of your first engine swap well then the Silvia might be the better choice no JVM manufacturer is more common for swaps than Nissan and that's not just because the u.s. Silvia's needed the power and it's not just because the sr20det is a direct swap it's because the Silvia is one of the most forgiving proven and plentiful swap platforms out there not only does it have an engine bay that can handle almost any swap but the transmission tunnel is so wide that any transmission can probably fit and all you'll need at that point is a custom driveshaft but you may not even need that because you can find prefab drive shafts 4rb swaps LS swaps and 2j swaps in fact our B swaps are so common in Silvia's I'm pretty sure there are more in the US than there are skylines sure it means your build might be a common one but the more people that build it the cheaper and easier it gets for the next person the whole rear subframe is also really simple so changing a diff to handle more power or putting in a full-on drift spec quick change diff is a more simple process than in any other car but the 86 it does have the room under the hood for any normal swap the hood is long to set the driver up closer to the middle of the car and the engine bay is wide because it was for a boxer engine strangely though this does have drawbacks if you want to go drifting since the frame rails are so far apart getting an angle kit on the car means that you're gonna need to widen your track a whole lot it's not the end of the world but it's another cost multiplier that starts to make the 86 not as entry-level of as an option as it originally looked but what if you're not a first-timer what if you're building a full-blown race car well let's take a look at Formula Drift the 86 has some strong representation in FD with the likes of dial shahara and Ryan Tuerck it's the second most popular chassis on the grid but it is severely outnumbered by the number one most popular chassis you guessed it the Silvia in 2019 there were 11 Silvia's entered in pro division alone that's nearly triple the amount of 86 s and it's not just because the sylvia's are the old standard the S chassis cars just work there are so many supporting mods and options for suspension angle kits and rear ends that you can dial into the car exactly the way you want it died OSHA Jara won a championship in a 240sx in 2012 then in 2014 said that his new BRZ was harder to set up and get dialed in properly OT Bach she's left a paid seat driving in Genesis Coupe to drive his own s14 look even if this is a self-fulfilling prophecy and the Silvia only has parts because people need the parts in the first place the results speak for themselves round for the looks I'd love to think that we all like cars for performance you know for a true melding of man and machine but let's be honest sometimes it's all about the looks and this is a tough round to stay impartial on so instead of giving you any reason to doubt my judgment we've got someone to talk about the look and style of sylvius s14 owner and host of money pit Zach Jobe okay Ronna and fanboy I will I get all hot and bothered every time I see the s14 sitting in the driveway grown up where I grew up there really wasn't much of a JDM culture but what I did get were Japanese car magazines and the beefiest boys to grace those pages was the s14 which is one of the reasons I've always wanted one so badly all s chassis cars have that look that perfect 90s look but that has also aged perfectly well other 90s cars with more curves like a Celica and the Mustang those feel really dated but the Silvia is unlike baby GTR so like baby Godzilla's and this one's green anyway each s chassis car brings variety there are s 13 convertibles if that's your style there are hatchback as 13 s that also have pop-up headlights which you know is the most important thing you can have on a car and then there's the S 14 ooh baby the S 14 well the zenki's the first iteration of the S 14 was longer and wider than the S 13 and the facelift s 14 s the coquí's had such an aggressive front end that they looked like they could benchpress their own kerb weight the headlights flowing into the body lines of the hood make this a car to fall in love with and if you were lucky enough to live in a place where they sold s 15 s oh boy you got it good those had the best front end of all in my opinion the front end with the squinty headlights that look like they were trying to stare you down and seduce you kind of at the same time the S chassis cars could straight beat you up and they could definitely beat up any FRS right the Silvius can make great-looking cars but they don't compare to the 86 and its stock form the 86 is just much more obviously a sports car it's got sleek smooth lines great proportions and it looks good from any angle in the design process Toyota took styling cues from the drop-dead gorgeous Toyota 2000gt it looks good enough to stay stock and with a few add-ons you can really set it off you'd think with a big aftermarket this uniformity would be fixed but most eight-six's end up with Valente taillights RPF ones and an instagram handle under the c-pillar a month ago we posted a poll on twitter asking about the OEM looks of the s 14 and eight-six a lot of people commented with some rational opinions 61% for the Nissan and 39 percent for the Toyota a big thanks to my fellow donut host Zach job for stepping in to help talk about the Silvius his s 14 has an RB 25 in it and it is huit if you want to see more of that car check out his show money pit every Wednesday on donut media where he's gonna be working on that his mx-5 and hopefully a bunch of my cars as well round five value in the final round we are gonna look at the actual cost of buying one of these cars and what you get for the money straight away the 86 seems more expensive its newer it's got more comforts as standard and it hasn't been replaced by a new model yet to drive the price down so if you're in the market for an eight-six you're looking at an average of about fourteen thousand US dollars Salvage ones have come down maybe as low as eight grand without any major body damage and new ones fresh off the lot can be as much as 30 grand I'm gonna tell you right now I love my FRS but I wouldn't spend 30 grand on one of these but if a brand new car is your thing and you want to track worthy coupe there's literally no better option this is one of the cheapest new coupes and as far as bang for your buck it was called car of the Year by Top Gear best drivers car by auto car a top 10 pick by Car and Driver and it's also an IIHS Top Safety Pick whatever that means so what about the Silvia has the dreaded drift tax really made them that expensive well yes there are people that are asking nearly 20 grand for a car older than my space clean as for teens are selling for almost as much as the original MSRP these aren't stock cars though they're usually already sr20 swaps or full of aftermarket parts that in and of itself is a gamble or it could add a lot of value to the original car but the silvia is a blank canvas right so what about for a project car where you can find a few that haven't been built out but even then a mostly stock s 13 that's just old you're still looking at above 4 grand and 4s 14s even more and while you can have fun with a ka 24 in stock suspension you'll end up spending more than the 86 to get the car where you want it the drift tax is a real thing the drift tax is a real fridge people think you know we've had a lot of fun here today but you know what's not fun the drift tax but there is a way that you can help play down the S chassis for just one post today we can all drive down the cost of sylvia's and maybe just maybe we won't be shelling out more than 5k for a roller project car with a cracked gas tank together we can make a difference so now we know what the Silvia costs but what about the value what are you getting for the money since the Silvia is a blank canvas you only get out of it what you put into it it's amazing that these cars have not only held on to but in some cases gained value they're mean-looking but understated they're flexible in space but stiff in chassis and once the s15 can be imported maybe the rest of them will finally drop in price the eight-six is great value for money and if you buy one I guarantee we'll have a good times but what do you think will the new 2021 eight-six change the debate will my fa20 engine eventually blow up let us know in the comments below be sure to follow donut media on Twitter Instagram be sure to check out the past cast podcast on our podcast channel tomorrow and I'll be back here next weekmotorsport is not cheap and drifting is no exception but if you want to get into that slide a boy action in an entry-level JDM coupe of your own you've got a choice to make do you go with the tried-and-true drift icons that sit on the Nissan s chassis or do you go with the young buck bet against the street and back the fresh blood of the 86 platform even though they're from different eras these two chassis have a lot in common they're both lightweight rear-wheel drive coupes from Japan praised for their ability to get around the track sideways and punch above their featherweight status you've ever wondered which of these is better well today is the day you get to find out it's the Nissan Silvia versus the Toyota 86 some people in the office don't think I can stay impartial on this one maybe it's because I Drive an FRS and I've only ever owned Toyotas who can say but I'd love I love the Silvius and against the 86 it's a matchup of weekend warrior JDM hardtops that put precision steering and chassis balance over power we've got five rounds to look at performance reliability mods looks and value both the Sylvia and the 86 were designed to be affordable rear-wheel drive cars that light a spark with young enthusiasts and let you have a little fun on your commute to work they don't have a ton of power stock but where they both shine is in balance handling and controllability in round one we are going to look at both these cars in terms of performance from the factory in 2020 the 86 starts with a slight advantage it's only seven years old used ones are under a hundred thousand miles and if you wanted you could get a brand new one with Bluetooth the rear view camera and a g-force meter you get some creature comforts over the 90s car sure but in terms of performance the main thing that's going to stand out is the suspension and the transmission the short-throw 6-speed that comes with the 86 is crisp and smooth the suspension was continuously tested to deliver the best combo of performance and comfort this car comes from the factory pretty much ready to hit the track at least in terms of suspension the Silvia is a car of the 90s and you'd expect it to be a little less refined which is true but the feeling that you are getting is more tactile and responsive part of this is due to the multi-link rear suspension compared to the double wishbone suspension of the 86 the multi-link suspension is more adjustable and more forgiving while still being planted and giving a stiff rear end the 86 is set up great from the factory and it outperforms the Silvia in ideal grip conditions but if you start to mess with it for better drifting the 86 is going to be harder to get right engine wise the Silvia outside of the US got an all aluminum sr20 engine this four banger was chucking out around 200 horsepower with later versions making up to 250 horsepower with an upgraded turbo but that version was for Japan Australia and New Zealand only though so good for you guys in the US of A the Silvia got the K a 24 engine which coughed up only a hundred and fifty-five horsepower from the dual overhead cam version and even less from the single cam the 86 utilized a naturally aspirated flat four from Subaru a direct fuel injection system from Toyota and the engineering know-how of the chief engineer of the LFA but many people have been vocal about the disappointing lack of power from the eight-six the current eight-six makes 205 naturally aspirated horsepower Toyota was adamant that the car stay n/a for a pure driving experience and because of that the throttle response of the 86 is immediate and precise but the 86 has a disappointing torque dip right in the middle of the rev range the car doesn't wake up again until 4500 rpm that even the single cam ka 24 engines were making more torque and we need torque right right but power isn't what makes these cars fun one of the things that helps these cars get around corners in either a drift or grip configuration is the differential the Silvia came with a viscous limited-slip differential which is a very comfortable and daihlia belay to still get some skids however it doesn't lock up fully and VLS d's are really affected by heat on top of that lower trims of the silvia came with an open diff so you got to make sure you're buying the right one the 86 on the other hand came from the factory with a Torsen LSD mechanical LSD s can react much faster than VL s DS and they require less maintenance they are all around better for aggressive driving and keeping your car doing what it's supposed to do on top of that the 86 has a more ideal center of gravity the weight distribution is a near-perfect 50/50 and the boxer engine helps keep that weight down low to reduce body roll not all of a car's cornering ability comes from the suspension and dip though drift cars and grip cars both need a solid predictable chassis to perform well the S 14 is an improvement stiffness Y's over the S 13 it's wider longer and lower but neither chassis can quite match up with the level of rigidity of the more modern 86 the S 15 might give the 86 a run for its money but with a limited availability I can't give it as much weight in this argument as I am the S 13 and s 14 both chassis x' though sit at about the same kerb weight came from the factory with similarly skinny tires and have a wielding round 2 reliability it doesn't matter how sideways these cars can get if the engine goes pop we are going to take a look in this round at reliability of these two cars and the likelihood of having a big problem similar to the last round the 86 might start with a slight advantage just from being a newer car even if both cars came from the factory with the exact same chassis z' engine suspension and electronics a 30 year old car would have more issues than a 7 year old car but the Silvia came from an era of Japanese economic stability that built some of the strongest most reliable power plants that put current engines to shame the KA 24 engine of the u.s. sylvia's may not be all that powerful but it is a workhorse Nissan mechanics say that with some regular valve adjustments 200,000 miles isn't a big ask the iron block of the ka 24 means that it can take more abuse than the high compression Subaru fa20 the engine in the 86 was supposed to be less of a ticking time bomb than the ej platform of the WRX but driving it hard in the heat has still occasionally resulted in a spun bearing or engine knock which is why anyone who takes an 86 to the track will recommend an oil cooler first on top of that some 2013 models shipped with weak valve springs and luckily those were recalled but when Toyota had to take apart this sube engine that was all like sideways and flat they didn't always put it back together right some 86 s had engine failure 500 miles after the recall so many failures were reported that there was a class action lawsuit against Toyota and Subaru this scared plenty of owners away from getting the recall done and there are still a few 2013's floating around with those bad valve springs to add insult to injury the ka 24 is not the only Silvia engine we're looking at the sr20 is known to make two hundred and fifty thousand miles with little beyond standard maintenance besides maybe a new timing chain and a MAF sensor it's also got hydraulic lifters so it doesn't even need the valve regulation that the ka 24s do the sr20 wasn't available in the US but so many people have done the swap and it's still OAM so that's the engines but what about the rest of the car this is where the Silvia really starts to show its age the plastics inside are brittle and flimsy cracked rim crack - broken bezels are really common all the plastics are getting harder and harder to find in good condition that may not sound like a big deal until you realize that the gas tanks are plastic as well you get cracks one of those and you better hope you can junkyard dive a solid one because fixing it is a pain I know that sounds like I'm being a little nit picky on the Silvius and in the interest of fairness the 86 does have some minor issues as well like if you remove the front bumper ever even if the dealership does it after a few times you're gonna get bumper sag the body panels won't match up as well and side markers will start to like pop out left and right mine does it and it's annoying also there's the crickets even though it's only a noise issue the fa20 engine is known to develop a chirping sound for like no reason before we get in the next round though I just want to say thank you so much for supporting this show thank you for supporting donut make sure that you're up to date on everything we've got because we've got a lot more coming your way round 3 modifications both these cars are great from the factory and even though they've got a few shortcomings they can easily be fixed or accidently made worse if you start wrenching around and adding mods to your car the aftermarket for both the 86 and the silvia are enormous there are companies that do all their business just serving these two communities for Lite mods you can find and build almost anything with these two new parts are being made for both and options are plentiful the biggest difference with these two cars comes when you try and build power any Silvia's and 86's aren't likely to push past 250 horsepower you can go for aftermarket force induction but that's always expensive and there are turbo versions of the sr20 and fa20 from the factory if you want a silvia with an OEM turbo the swap will be pretty much plug and play for the 86 however this is not the case the WRX engine isn't a direct swap like the sr20 is in fact there are no direct swaps for the 86 platform if you want to make boost in an 86 you're gonna be looking at an aftermarket kit which is expensive also your reliability will be way down compared to the OEM and even if you're boosted fa20 was reliable it still doesn't compare to the sr20det when it comes to building power the stock internals can handle up to 400 horsepower which for a four-cylinder aluminum block is really good so from here the next step in power for both is the engine swap both cars are great candidates for engine swaps and you can find some really crazy swaps out there a skilled mechanic and maybe a fabricator can do almost any swap they want but what if you're not what if you're like me and your knowledge of working on cars comes from youtube videos and you're staring down the barrel of your first engine swap well then the Silvia might be the better choice no JVM manufacturer is more common for swaps than Nissan and that's not just because the u.s. Silvia's needed the power and it's not just because the sr20det is a direct swap it's because the Silvia is one of the most forgiving proven and plentiful swap platforms out there not only does it have an engine bay that can handle almost any swap but the transmission tunnel is so wide that any transmission can probably fit and all you'll need at that point is a custom driveshaft but you may not even need that because you can find prefab drive shafts 4rb swaps LS swaps and 2j swaps in fact our B swaps are so common in Silvia's I'm pretty sure there are more in the US than there are skylines sure it means your build might be a common one but the more people that build it the cheaper and easier it gets for the next person the whole rear subframe is also really simple so changing a diff to handle more power or putting in a full-on drift spec quick change diff is a more simple process than in any other car but the 86 it does have the room under the hood for any normal swap the hood is long to set the driver up closer to the middle of the car and the engine bay is wide because it was for a boxer engine strangely though this does have drawbacks if you want to go drifting since the frame rails are so far apart getting an angle kit on the car means that you're gonna need to widen your track a whole lot it's not the end of the world but it's another cost multiplier that starts to make the 86 not as entry-level of as an option as it originally looked but what if you're not a first-timer what if you're building a full-blown race car well let's take a look at Formula Drift the 86 has some strong representation in FD with the likes of dial shahara and Ryan Tuerck it's the second most popular chassis on the grid but it is severely outnumbered by the number one most popular chassis you guessed it the Silvia in 2019 there were 11 Silvia's entered in pro division alone that's nearly triple the amount of 86 s and it's not just because the sylvia's are the old standard the S chassis cars just work there are so many supporting mods and options for suspension angle kits and rear ends that you can dial into the car exactly the way you want it died OSHA Jara won a championship in a 240sx in 2012 then in 2014 said that his new BRZ was harder to set up and get dialed in properly OT Bach she's left a paid seat driving in Genesis Coupe to drive his own s14 look even if this is a self-fulfilling prophecy and the Silvia only has parts because people need the parts in the first place the results speak for themselves round for the looks I'd love to think that we all like cars for performance you know for a true melding of man and machine but let's be honest sometimes it's all about the looks and this is a tough round to stay impartial on so instead of giving you any reason to doubt my judgment we've got someone to talk about the look and style of sylvius s14 owner and host of money pit Zach Jobe okay Ronna and fanboy I will I get all hot and bothered every time I see the s14 sitting in the driveway grown up where I grew up there really wasn't much of a JDM culture but what I did get were Japanese car magazines and the beefiest boys to grace those pages was the s14 which is one of the reasons I've always wanted one so badly all s chassis cars have that look that perfect 90s look but that has also aged perfectly well other 90s cars with more curves like a Celica and the Mustang those feel really dated but the Silvia is unlike baby GTR so like baby Godzilla's and this one's green anyway each s chassis car brings variety there are s 13 convertibles if that's your style there are hatchback as 13 s that also have pop-up headlights which you know is the most important thing you can have on a car and then there's the S 14 ooh baby the S 14 well the zenki's the first iteration of the S 14 was longer and wider than the S 13 and the facelift s 14 s the coquí's had such an aggressive front end that they looked like they could benchpress their own kerb weight the headlights flowing into the body lines of the hood make this a car to fall in love with and if you were lucky enough to live in a place where they sold s 15 s oh boy you got it good those had the best front end of all in my opinion the front end with the squinty headlights that look like they were trying to stare you down and seduce you kind of at the same time the S chassis cars could straight beat you up and they could definitely beat up any FRS right the Silvius can make great-looking cars but they don't compare to the 86 and its stock form the 86 is just much more obviously a sports car it's got sleek smooth lines great proportions and it looks good from any angle in the design process Toyota took styling cues from the drop-dead gorgeous Toyota 2000gt it looks good enough to stay stock and with a few add-ons you can really set it off you'd think with a big aftermarket this uniformity would be fixed but most eight-six's end up with Valente taillights RPF ones and an instagram handle under the c-pillar a month ago we posted a poll on twitter asking about the OEM looks of the s 14 and eight-six a lot of people commented with some rational opinions 61% for the Nissan and 39 percent for the Toyota a big thanks to my fellow donut host Zach job for stepping in to help talk about the Silvius his s 14 has an RB 25 in it and it is huit if you want to see more of that car check out his show money pit every Wednesday on donut media where he's gonna be working on that his mx-5 and hopefully a bunch of my cars as well round five value in the final round we are gonna look at the actual cost of buying one of these cars and what you get for the money straight away the 86 seems more expensive its newer it's got more comforts as standard and it hasn't been replaced by a new model yet to drive the price down so if you're in the market for an eight-six you're looking at an average of about fourteen thousand US dollars Salvage ones have come down maybe as low as eight grand without any major body damage and new ones fresh off the lot can be as much as 30 grand I'm gonna tell you right now I love my FRS but I wouldn't spend 30 grand on one of these but if a brand new car is your thing and you want to track worthy coupe there's literally no better option this is one of the cheapest new coupes and as far as bang for your buck it was called car of the Year by Top Gear best drivers car by auto car a top 10 pick by Car and Driver and it's also an IIHS Top Safety Pick whatever that means so what about the Silvia has the dreaded drift tax really made them that expensive well yes there are people that are asking nearly 20 grand for a car older than my space clean as for teens are selling for almost as much as the original MSRP these aren't stock cars though they're usually already sr20 swaps or full of aftermarket parts that in and of itself is a gamble or it could add a lot of value to the original car but the silvia is a blank canvas right so what about for a project car where you can find a few that haven't been built out but even then a mostly stock s 13 that's just old you're still looking at above 4 grand and 4s 14s even more and while you can have fun with a ka 24 in stock suspension you'll end up spending more than the 86 to get the car where you want it the drift tax is a real thing the drift tax is a real fridge people think you know we've had a lot of fun here today but you know what's not fun the drift tax but there is a way that you can help play down the S chassis for just one post today we can all drive down the cost of sylvia's and maybe just maybe we won't be shelling out more than 5k for a roller project car with a cracked gas tank together we can make a difference so now we know what the Silvia costs but what about the value what are you getting for the money since the Silvia is a blank canvas you only get out of it what you put into it it's amazing that these cars have not only held on to but in some cases gained value they're mean-looking but understated they're flexible in space but stiff in chassis and once the s15 can be imported maybe the rest of them will finally drop in price the eight-six is great value for money and if you buy one I guarantee we'll have a good times but what do you think will the new 2021 eight-six change the debate will my fa20 engine eventually blow up let us know in the comments below be sure to follow donut media on Twitter Instagram be sure to check out the past cast podcast on our podcast channel tomorrow and I'll be back here next week