The Transmission Conundrum: Why 11 Speed Transmissions Will Never Happen

As I sit here thinking about transmissions, I'm reminded of the time I visited GM and Honda. They joined forces to create a 10-speed transmission, which was a game-changer. It'll never happen that they'll stop working on new transmission designs. And speaking of design, GM didn't like working with Ford, so they're moving forward with Honda. Ford's like, "Forget you, man." But all those are being built for mass production and planned to be sold in the millions.

What if money was no object? Fuel economy didn't matter? And performance was your only goal? Well, then you could do something really special, like what Koenigsegg has done with their Lightspeed. A nine-speed, seven-clutch transmission is an engineering marvel. It uses a few gear sets, six in total, combined to create nine different ratios. Each gear set has its own clutch, so the Lightspeed transmission can jump from any gear to any other gear almost instantaneously. It takes just two milliseconds to complete a gear change.

Finally, because it's not based on an automatic transmission with a liquid-filled torque converter, power delivery to the wheels is near instantaneous as well. It's like a dream come true for car enthusiasts. If you want, maybe we should do a whole episode on how it works. Let us know in the comments. But with plans to build just 125 cars and at a price of $3 million, don't expect that technology to trickle down to the rest of us anytime soon.

So is the adding of gears ever going to stop? There are two reasons why you won't see manufacturers, apart from maybe Koenigsegg, adding gears forever. First, there's a point where that adding efficiency from a design, like ZF8's, with its fewer components and factor shift, it'll peak. Like you in high school. Now when that happens, adding just one more gear will start to make things less efficient and slower, just like it did with older transmission designs.

But the biggest issue is the electric future. Because they don't have power curves, EVs simply don't need as many gear ratios as internal combustion engines. Teslas get it done with just a single speed. Run line instead of the engine's ability to deliver power from zero RPM to as much as 20,000 RPM. As internal combustion goes away, gearboxes with almost a dozen ratios simply become obsolete.

You know, whenever we talk about internal combustion leaving us, we never think about the transmissions either. And I just want to say, I'm gonna miss the transmissions too. Because they were important, too. You don't know what you've got until it's gone.

Okay, that was enough of that.

Hey friend, I know where you're at. You forgot to get a gift for the Donut fan in your life, and it's too late for anything to be shipped. Well, you're in luck because Donut Media gift cards are a thing. And you can get them in some phenomenal increments. I'm talking $25, $50, $75, $100, $150. And if you want to do something crazy, like $7,500, give me a call and we'll work something out.

The Donut Media gift cards are 100% digital. They don't rely on the old-school guy on a horse delivering things, which is how I assume things still get to people. And each of them is designed after an 80's credit card. Which is a genius idea that I came up with in literally three seconds.

So head on over to donutmedia.com and pick up your perfect stocking stuffer today.

Thank you guys so much for watching this episode of B2B. If you want to see us break down a particular transmission, like the one that Koenigsegg has, let us know, I'd be really interested in nerding out if you guys like these types of videos. Let us know. Hit that like button, that really helps us out. Thank you so much. Thank you for watching. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe. Hit that little bell over there that lets you get notified whenever we post new stuff, we're always posting new videos.

If you're not part of the discord, hit the join button below. I'll be on the discord tonight at 7:00 PM. I'll be on there. You can personally talk to me. We're a meme page now. Follow us on Instagram at Donut Media. Follow me at Jeremiah Burton. Until next week. Bye for now.

WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: en- It seems like manufacturers todayjust can't stop adding gears to cars.Just a few years, we'vegone from five or six speedsbeing the standard to eight, nine,even ten speed transmissions.Honda and GM, they're working on gearboxesthat go up to 11 speed.I want to know why dothey keep adding more?Well it turns out, there'sa couple of good reasonswhy you might want em.And a couple of reasons why you wouldn't.So today, we're gonna figure it out.Let's go.Truckers with their 18 speed transmission.Pft. Ha ha.Hold my beer, sonny.Toot, toot!(upbeat music)- A big thanks to Skillsharefor sponsoring today's episode.Skillshare is an online learning communitywith thousands of inspiringclasses for creators.Explore new skills in photography,deepen existing passions with writing orget lost in the art of animation.Today, I really want to highlight a skillthat we all take for granted,using a knife in the kitchen.This is knife skills,a mini class to chop like a chefby professional head chef, Elana Karp.In under 20 minutes, Elanagives you a full tutorialon the best forms of slicing, dicingand, of course, knife safetyso you don't get any fingertipsin your steak julienne.Because Skillshare wantsyou to continue learning,There are no ads, so you can stay focused.They're always launchingnew premium classes andnow Skillshare's entire catalogoffers subtitles in Spanish,French, Portuguese, and Dutch.That's fantastico.Right now, the first 1000of you donut boys and girlsto click on the link in the descriptionwill get a free one monthtrial to Skillshare.So, don't wait, start exploringyour creativity today.And now back to the show.(upbeat tune)- I'm gonna get straight to the point.One of the reasons why thenumber of gears in new carskeep increasing is straightforward.Fuel economy and performance.But this can't go on foreverbecause extra gears createssome pretty big problems.So to understand thebenefits and drawbacks,we need to see why cars havegears in the first place.And that all starts with thesexiest part of every car,the engine.And especially its power curve.I got a bunch of powercurves, goes like this.When I do this, that'sthe backside of my butt.That's where I get all my power from.These cheeks.Slap, slap.We often describe enginesby their horsepower rating,but that's only peak power.Engines only make that atone particular engine speed.And that's usually closeto the maximum RPMs.That's the rev limit or the red line.So if you have an enginewith a peak power output of325 horsepowers and ared line of 6,000 RPM,it's only making maximumpower somewhere around5,200 to 5,800 RPM,depending on an engine.But this is a theoretical engine,so let's just say itmakes it at 5,800 RPM.Now, before and after thatpoint, it's producing less.Sometimes a lot less.At idle at around six to 800 RPM,that might be making aslittle as 20 horsepower.Mm.Enough power for accessorieslike the alternator andair conditioner, but not much else.That's why if you want totry to accelerate at idlewithout adding any throttle,your car creeps forward slowly,and maybe will even stall out.As engine speed increases,so does power output,but as power output increases,so does fuel consumptionbecause you can't make power without it.Now let's consider what wouldhappen if your car didn't haveany gears at all.That would be a direct drivesystem like a kid's tricycle.Those have a one-to-one ratiobetween the drive system,that'd be little Jerry'slegs on the pedals,and the driven wheel.For every rotation of the pedals,the wheel rotates one time.So if your car had no gears,it would do the same thing.For every full rotationof the engines crankshaft,the wheels would rotate just one time.And there are situations wherethat could work just fine.In a car without gears,at an engine speed of a thousand RPM,the wheels would also berotating at a thousand RPM.Assuming your car haspretty typical tires,say 25 inches in diameter,you'd be traveling at 75 miles per hour.So the one-to-one ratio of a direct drivecould be good for highway cruising,but has a major low speed problem.At five miles per hour,your engine would bespinning at just 67 RPM.Engines need to maintain a minimum speedto have enough momentum to stay running.That minimum variesbased on things like theweight and frictionbetween internal parts,but 67 RPM is too slow foranything you'd find in a car.So you can solve that lowspeed problem by adding areduction gear to the car.A reduction gear lets an inputsource, like the crankshaft,rotate faster than the output.The opposite is an overdrive gear,which lets the input rotateslower than the output.In that case, if we simplyadded a 15 to one reduction gearthen for every 15 rotations of the crank,the wheels would just rotate once.So at five miles per hour,the engine would be spinningat a much happier 1000 RPM.But a single gear solutionto low speed problemcreates a high speed problem.For the 15 to one ratioat 70 miles per hour,the engine would need tospin at over 14,000 RPM.Well past the rev limit for most cars.Motorcycles, don't got toworry about that though.Yeah, where my motorcycle boys at?Yeah, yeah.Leave a comment down below ifyou want more moto content.Also hit that subscribe and like button.That lets us know we're doing good.Thank you.With a 15 to one ratio,the engine will reach6,000 RPM at just 30 miles per.So you can see the problem here.Any gear ratio that letsthe engine accelerateat low speeds, inevitably leadsto problems at high speeds.As vehicle speed increases,there is some point where theengine speed goes beyondwhat it's capable ofand that's probably happenedlong before you've reachedhighway speeds.So what is the solution, Jer bear?Tell me, I need the answer.We add more gears.The most basic reason your carhas multiple gears is becauseengines are limited by theiridle speed and their rev limit.Engine and wheel rotationspeeds need to varyif you want to travel at anormal range of vehicle speeds.So transmission with acombination of reduction gears andoverdrive gears makes itpossible for you to drive atfive miles an hour or 70 miles an hour.Or if you're bad ass, 150 miles an hour.Or if you're a super badass, 200 miles an hour.As long as you're withinthe limits of the road.Stay safe, my friends.Even the earliest cars had more thanone gear ratio available.The model T was a two speed andtwo speed transmissions werecommon up until the 1970s.But long before then companiesstarted adding gears.The 1927 Model A, three speeds.And a three speedtransmission stuck aroundfor almost 80 years up untilthe early two thousands.In drag racing, threespeeds are still common andthose are capable ofexceeding 150 miles per.So adding more gears isn'tnecessarily just about top speed,but the addition of extra gearsdoes have a lot to do with performance.And in the two thousands,six speeds became common inperformance cars.It's really only in the lastdecade or so that we've seen awidespread addition of gears.So are six gear ratios not enough?Well looking at a specific examplemight explain why it might not be.Like many cars, the CatfishCamaro built from 1998 to 2002,had a transmission that wasn'tbuilt by the manufacturer.It has a Borg-Warner T56.If you know, you know.Which was also used in the Dodge Viper,used in Corvettes, MustangCobras, a lot of sick cars,but on top of that listis the old Catfish Camero.Now in the Camaro, the sixgear has a ratio of 0.5 to one.That's an overdrive gear.So it multiplies therotations of the input sourceand that lets me cruise in theCamaro at a comfortable andfuel sipping 1300 RPM at 60 miles per.At that speed, it's 25 inchtires are rotating at 800 RPM.Now you mathletes outthere might be thinkingyour boy doesn't knowwhat he's talking about.Shouldn't an engine spinning at 1300 RPMwith an overdrive gearratio mean the wheels arerotating faster than the crank?Well, the answer is no.I could tell you why,but I think you should tell me instead.Head on over to theDonut Underground Discordtonight, 7:00 PM, andyou can explain why theCamaro's engine is spinningat 1300 RPM at 60 miles per.7:00 PM.I'll be on for one whole long hour. Okay?I'll take your answers.Whoever gets it I'll give you a shirt.Be ready.Now let's suppose that Nolan pulls up andhe wants to race because,let's face it, he's trouble.I got a Mustang eater though,that's the definition of what a Camaro is.I'm not worried.And because we're professionaldrivers on a closed course,don't try this at home.We go for it.At 1300 RPM, the Camaro is onlymaking 40 or 50 horsepower.So I grab second. A-pow-pow.A reduction gear withthe ratio of 1.78 to one.The engine jumps to 4,600 RPM.Horsepower gallops up to 300,just shy of the engine's peak.And I can accelerateall the way to 5,600 RPMbefore the power starts todrop off before red line.I win, take the cash, andthe respect that I deservebecause my Camaro justgobbled up a little pony.That's what I eat everyday.I eat ponies.Breakfast, lunch, dinner.I got a sticker on theback of my car that saysMy Little Pony eater.Put it on a shirt.But let's rewind the tape alittle and see what happensif I'm going 70 milesper hour instead of 60.In sixth gear at 70 miles per hour,with that 0.5 to one ratio,the Camaro's engine isspinning at 1500 RPM.That increased enginespeed means it's usinga little bit more fuel.And that's one reason whymanufacturers will add more gears.A seventh gear would bea ratio of 0.33 to oneand would drop the enginespeed to just a thousand RPM.That's a 30% decrease in engine speed andthat produces a corresponding,but not identical,decrease in fuel consumption.So, more gears means more timecan be spent at lower RPMsburning less fuel.But more gears can alsomean better access toengines peak power.Consider that race again.This time starting at 70 miles per hour.If I downshift into second,the engine is going tojump up to 5,400 RPMwhere it's already making maximum power,but I'll need to immediatelyupshift to avoid over revving.That shift takes time,slowing the car down,maybe enough that Nolangets an advantage and a win.But your boy won't let that happen.So what if I downshift into third instead?Well, that's got a ratio of1.3 to one and at 70 miles per,the engine will only be at 3,900 RPM.That'll put power at just 250 horses,well below the engine's325 horsepower peak,a deficit that could also lose the race.So could more gears help this problem?Heck yeah it could!So suppose there was asecond and a half yearwith a ratio of 1.55 to one.70 miles per hour, that wouldput the engine at 4,700 RPMor at about 300 horsepowerand with plenty of roomto rev before red line.So it sounds likechanging from a six speedto an eight speed in the oldCatfish would be a win-win.Better fuel economy and more performance.But it's never that simple.Never that simple.Adding gears also has some downsides.Some of the problems are pretty obvious.Adding more gears means moreparts in greater complexityinside the gearbox.Unless all those parts were made smaller,that means increased size and weight.And if they are made smaller,then they potentially are more fragile andcan't handle the same amount of power.Of course you could solve thatby using stronger materials,but that increase costs.Freaking everything cool is expensive.One problem that's not as obviousis that extra gears createadditional drive-line power losses.That's power which doesn'tmake it to the wheelsbecause it's used rotatingthe mass of the drive train.Stuff like the flywheeldrive shaft in your axle.Any gears that aren't currently engagedare still spinning around andthat makes them dead weight,which takes power from the engine.And finally, there'sthe problem of shiftingthrough all those gears.It takes time to movefrom one gear to the next.During those shifts, thecar is actually deceleratingbecause there's no powergoing to the wheels.So the performance benefitof having extra gearsto keep the engine andjust that right spotin it's rev range could be canceled out.Either by the extrarotating mass of those gearsor if you simply haveto spend too much timeshifting through them.But your boy's a fast shifter, boy.In theory, if you had enoughgears and never had to shift,you could always be in thesweet spot for maximum power orfor maximum fuel economy.And that's really the goalof a CVT transmission.But in the real world, thosehave their own set of problems.While they have infinitevariation gear ratios,that comes at a cost ofproducing a lot of heat andbeing limited to how muchpower they can handle.Also people say they feel weird.Been there.Engineers have to make choicesno matter what the transmission type.Typically needed tostrike a balance betweenperformance and fuel economy withjust a few gear ratios to work with.In manual transmission cars,that's been six for a long timewith just a few sevenspeeds in recent years.But then sometimesmiraculous things happen.The ZF8HP automatic transmission.It's the one that started it all.I'm a little bit old fashioned, okay?I like my coffee blackand I like my Pert Plusto burn my eyes.I also like three speedmanual transmission.You think people know PertPlus used to burn your eyes?- I don't know what that is.(laughing)- But making one of those transmissionswith more than six gearsis susceptible to all theproblems I just mentioned.Size, rotating mass andshift speed especially.Automatics on the other hand,they can be engineered withreally clever workarounds.Because they can make morespeeds, more gear ratios,with fewer actual gears.By doing that, the 8HP transmissionbuilt by German company ZF,really launched the more speedswith fewer gears trendall the way back in 2008.And the ZF8 has been usedin a huge number of cars.Everything from relativelyordinary Dodge Chargers andBMW sedans to the LamborghiniUrus and Aston Martin DBS.So what makes this gearbox so special?Like many automatic transmissions,it uses planetary gears.We're going around the world.Those consists of a sun gearsurrounded by planet gears andan outer ring gear.The ZF has just four ofthese planetary gear sets,but by mixing and matchingthe sun and ring gears,reusing them to make different ratios,the ZF manages to make eight total ratioswith just four gear sets.Fewer gear sets meansfewer gears sitting arounddoing nothing so less rotational mass.It also means fewer parts that can break,decrease total size and massand the gears don't have tomove as far to complete gear changes.Fewer parts also means it's cheaper.You have less stuff.Old school automatics withordinary gears had to shiftsequentially through each of their gears,but the ZF design letsit jump straight betweencertain gears, from eighthto second, for example.And because all of thisis computer controlled,shifts happen in just 200 milliseconds.Far faster than a human.I don't know that's pretty fast.I just went through six gears right there.Nailed it.The ZF8 has been installed in overthree and a half million cars.Proving that transmissionswith lots of gears can work.ZF followed suit with a nine speed.Ford and GM, they joined forces.Me and Nolan, one, Camaro Mustang.It'll never happen. It did happen.And they built a 10 speedtransmission together.And now Honda and GM areworking on an 11 speed.GM didn't like workingwith Ford they're like,forget you, man.We're gonna go work with the Honda guy.And Ford was like, you friggin loved it.You loved it and you'releaving and it's your loss.Your loss, baby.But all of those are beingbuilt for mass production andplan to be sold in the millions.What if money was no object?Fuel economy didn't matter?And performance was your only goal.Well, then you could dosomething really speciallike what Koeninsegg hasdone with their Lightspeed.A nine speed, seven clutch transmission.Like the ZF, Koeningsegguses a few gear sets,six in total, incombination with each otherto create nine different ratios.And because each gearset has its own clutch,the Lightspeed transmissioncan jump from any gearto any other gear, almost instantaneously.It just takes two millisecondsto complete a gear change.Finally, because it's not based on anautomatic transmission with aliquid filled torque converter,power delivery to the wheelsis near instantaneous as well.It's an engineering marvel.If you want, maybe weshould do a whole episodeon how it works.Let us know in the comments.But with plans to build justa hundred and twenty-five carsand at a price of $3 million,don't expect thattechnology to trickle downto the rest of us anytime soon.So is the adding ofgears ever going to stop?11 might not be thetransmission's final form,but there are two reasons whyyou won't see manufacturers,apart from maybe Koeningsegg,adding gears forever.First, there's a pointwhere that adding efficiencyfrom a design, like ZF8's,with its fewer components andfactor shift, it'll peak.Like you in high school.Now when that happens,adding just one more gearwill start to make thingsless efficient and slowerjust like it did witholder transmission designs.But the biggest issueis the electric future.Because they don't have power curves,EVs simply don't need as many gear ratiosas internal combustion engines.Teslas get it done withjust a single speed.Run line instead of the engine'sability to deliver powerfrom zero RPM to as much as 20,000 RPM.As internal combustion goes away,gearboxes with almost a dozenratios simply become obsolete.You know, whenever we talkabout internal combustionsleaving us, we never thinkabout the transmissions either.And I just want to sayI'm gonna miss the transmissions as well.Because they were important, too.You don't know what you'vegot until it's gone.Okay, that was enough of that.(somber music)- Hey friend, I know where you're at.You forgot to get a gift forthe Donut fan in your lifeand it's too late foranything to be shipped.Well you're in luck becauseDonut Media gift cardsare a thing.And you can get them insome phenomenal increments.I'm talking $25, $50, $75, $100, $150.And if you want to dosomething crazy, like $7,500,give me a call and we'llwork something out.The Donut Media giftcards are 100% digital.They don't rely on theold school guy on a horse,delivering things,which is how I assumethings still get to people.And each of them are designedafter an 80's credit card.Which is a genius idea that I came up within literally three seconds.So head on over to donutmedia.com andpick up your perfectstocking stuffer today.- Thank you guys so much forwatching this episode of B2B.If you want to see us breakdown a particular transmission,like the one that Koeningsegg has,let us know, I'd be really,I'd be really interested in nerding outif you guys like these types of videos.Let us know.Hit that like button,that really helps us out.Thank you so much.Thank you for watching.If you haven't alreadysubscribed, please subscribe.Hit that little bell over therethat lets you get notifiedwhenever we post new stuff,we're always posting new videos.If you're not part of the discord,hit the join button below.I'm gonna be on thediscord tonight. 7:00 PM.I'll be on there.You can personally talk to me.We're a meme page now.Follow us on Instagram at Donut Media.Follow me at Jeremiah Burton.Until next week.Bye for now.