The Concept of Anti-Melee Abilities in Skyrim

When it comes to playing Skyrim, there are several abilities that can make a big difference in gameplay, particularly when it comes to dealing with enemies. One such ability is anti-melee, which can be applied to various classes and builds. As the caster mentions, they have found that their range DPS build has been affected by these abilities. "Yeah I notic that they put that ability on me I'm just sitting there like bro I'm I'm range DPS and how how do you heal at that point bro fing when when I get blinded I just pop Rally or or Vigor and I just roll around for a second or two," they explain.

It's worth noting that the caster has found ways to counter these abilities, particularly by using their own abilities. "I completely agree with that when I played the arena the first time through I was like I I mean I know it's possible with melee because I've seen you do it I've seen some Sam Templars do it I know some sers that did it but I'm like it is going to be so much more difficult if you have to be in their face to do the damage well," they say. The caster also mentions that they have arrived at a build that makes sacrifices, and while it's effective for their own playstyle, it may not be as good for other builds.

The caster also talks about how certain builds can be more difficult to deal with than others. "if you try werewolf I can guarantee you will obliterate that dungeon man yeah no I yeah I'd seen uh alus do some werewolf stuff the only thing that scares me is like yeah you'll kill through like coming out of it you could just die in like one second you know to something and like that's how the that's how a lot of the dungeon goes," they explain. The caster highlights that builds revolving around crit surge can be effective, but may not be as good for other sustain-based builds.

Donations from the Community

The caster also takes a moment to thank their donors, who have contributed to the podcast. "I just want to thank uh our donators for today's podcast Blacklist with the $50 donation thank you so much man I appreciate it um we also got a donation from uh Jace Blen for $10 he says Shield stack for days thanks Jay nor call Justin with $5 donation and Elizabeth Austin with the $20 donation thank you guys so much thanks everyone who tuned in to the podcast this is going to be posted on YouTube youtube.com/ CER PK and if you want to catch the casters on Twitch or YouTube Type in exclamation mark Casters in the in the chat and you'll be linked to you to all the casters twitch page you can find the information there are any of you guys streaming tonight yes sir yeah I'll be doing the arena probably immediately after this all right yeah I won't be all right you guys can catch the casters on their stream follow them show them some love."

Future Episodes and Guests

The caster also talks about what to expect in future episodes. "we're looking forward to getting more guests next time around um we'll probably finish up the classes and I do want to bring at least one uh experienced Templar player so that we can have a very good uh Templar perspective because not a lot of us play Templar so blob fat blob fat is definitely a good option if he's interested yeah BL so thank you guys so for tuning in guys thanks thanks guys everybody have a good night"

Consistency and Community

Finally, the caster mentions that they are committed to releasing new episodes every other Saturday. "we've this is our third episode we've been consistent so far every other Saturday we want to come here and just talk about anything relating to the game thank you guys so for tuning in guys thanks thanks guys everybody have a good night"

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enres microphone activated hey guys welcome we are we're live right now welcome to episode three of we are ESO podcast you guys notice we have a uh a new overlay it's close to the first one but it's touched up a bit looks a lot better we also have the chat in the window this was requested by some people so that when they rewatch the uh the podcast um on YouTube they can see what the the Chatters are saying so few changes here to the podcast thanks to some helpful feedback from you guys and some helpful people uh hope put this together uh we're always looking forward to hearing your feedback and improving the podcast so let's get started today is going to be a very focused discussion uh that's another thing that people wanted to see because sometimes we're talking about too many things and we end up not talking enough about particular subjects so today it's two topics topics one of them is going to be the main focus which is class balance we're going to cover all four classes and then the second topic after we're done with that is going to be the melstrom arena just the new Arena that came with the orsinium patch um so I just want to start off by doing the regular introduction because uh some people might be watching for the first time some people probably don't know everyone here hopefully you do uh you can always type in exclamation mark Casters in the chat if you want to see uh all the corters link information my name is cipher uh this is I twitch.tv/ cerk youtube.com/ CER PK uh you guys can find my info there and uh I've been playing Elder SCS online ever since the initial beta I've been pvping majority of the time um I focus on solo gameplay whether it's PVE or PVE majority of the time it's PVP but it's solo gameplay is what I focus on King Richard go ahead hey guys my name is King Richard um most of you guys know me from YouTube and twitch twitch.tv back/ King Richard 15 um I prefer small scale PVP and ESL but I also do a little bit of PVE and I'm known for playing the magic of sorcerer class Fang rush I am Fang rush I play uh stampur been playing since beta uh you can find me on YouTube as well at fanger um same as my name here Lefty what's up guys Lefty Lucy been playing since beta as well primarily focused on PVP mostly small scale you can find me on YouTube as well Lefty Lucy PVP same back slash for twitch and I primarily focus on the DK Dragon Knight and also werewolf and today we're also bringing with us Jules she was here on the last podcast but we're bringing her again because first of all uh she was cut off a bit too much primarily by me and then we didn't really get into the Dragonite discussion uh which is why we brought her last last time so today we're going to start off with class balance all four classes so what we're going to do first is actually uh I'm going to have everyone in the uh podcast list off the top classes that they think like top of the food chain to the bottom you can leave things out that you haven't played Just from your experience and what you do uh forget if you don't play group don't comment on it from a group perspective if you only play solo comment from solar perspective small group small group perspective in your opinion when it comes to the classes and when you when you say it out I want I want you to say okay stamina and I played Magicka like specify it just a little bit what would you say is your top three let's just let's just go with the top three cuz it can get a little too complicated um start with Lefty and we'll work our way back over here what you say for for what you do so top three for what I do I I do solo PV well I do small small group PVP um but that that kind of includes so so the the performance of the the classes of my top three is about the same in small group as well as solo um man top one it's it's tough for me so so you got your night blades and your SS that are they're pretty damn close in my opinion um a lot of it depends on the player but I think I think I'm going have to go I think I'm going to have to go with the magic sword top one and then I'm think I'm going to have to go with the stam night blade for number two and then three this one's tough too I might actually put magic Templar at number three right now all righty fish um from a from like a 1V one perspective I'd say um I think Stam night blade you know with good CP and everything they really scale very well um probably not for group play though I they're one of the weaker ones I find for group play not that they're bad but they just don't synergize as well as some others would like a Templar um but number two overall magic historic and it's right there with night blade I think magic is s stronger in some aspects than night blade for sure um from a survival aspect and three is Pretty Tough those two I think are much higher Above the Rest um I really like Stam DK for number three in group play I don't think it's like the strongest I think it's very good all around I I I'm not really sure number three Stam s's really good too but man it's all I play so I know it's strength all righty King Richard um I'd probably say it's a it's a tight tie for my number one with uh sorcerer magic Sorcerer And stamina night blade um both of them they they they're basically the same thing like high burst DPS really really good survivability and Mobility so I can't really pick one over the other but I I have played both of them and depending on the situation they are they can be really really op depending on the situation sometimes night blade comes out on top sometimes sorcerer comes out on top and then for my number three I would probably say um a stamina DK and I would then from from what I do what I do is basically small scale PVP mainly solo PVP I would say Stam DK is number three and Templar would be tied like Stam Sor for number four all righty uh for my top three I I primarily do just solo PVP and I'm not going to talk about uh 1 V one cuz 1 V one is a little different sometimes you'll have certain setups that you know beat other setups because of just counters and stuff like that but just from a solo PVP perspective going out into open world as a solo player there uh I put uh I I know Stam night blade and Magic aorc probably on the top of most of people's list um so I'm not going to put them together like I'm not going to tie them up for first but I'm going to I'm going to say that Stam Nightblade is just an inch above the magic of Sor from from what I do and just how I play um so Stam night blade would be first magic ofor right after and then a small drop into Stam DK and then and majority of the other classes that fall after Stam Decay are either really really close or there's a big drop like for example magic of DK that's where the big drop happens um so what we're going to do today is we're going to talk about all four classes um I know we don't necessarily uh have very good Templar um representation uh today but it's something we're going to work on probably bring some Templar players some experienced Templar players to talk about the Templar class A little better uh but what we're going to do first is uh we'll start off with the DK there's just it's a Hot Topic right now on the forums especially regarding the magic of DK um and that's why I mean there's a there's a forum post by jwes uh that lists out basically everything regarding the class and uh that's why we brought it here so she can you know discuss the the the situation in the DK class so Jules I'm going to let you take lead on this one uh and just give me you know the basic rundown of you know what is wrong with the uh the Dragonite class what your opinions on the Dragonite class from from a Mana or stamina perspective um go ahead you're you're feed you have the floor to yourself okay um I think well first I guess for the for the top three that I think um I actually think that magic of sorc is a little bit higher than Stam KN blade um just in my opinion I think their ability to tank with Harden Ward their Mobility with streak and their high damage just puts them a little bit higher just because Stam night bed can't tank as much damage um however I think they can output a lot more damage so I don't know I guess like what you guys all said they're all pretty close and then I really like um magic and KN blade for number three because I think its damage is pretty comparable to stamina night blade um it's a little bit lower but it has the ability to have like much better heals and their DPS heals them so um as far as DK I don't know like really where to start how about this how about for every class we can actually just go through every single ability and passive and just kind of point out the ones that either need some rework done or are underperforming overperforming whatever the case is um I have a skill calculator open right now so I'll just I'll guide us through the uh the skills and passives and everyone can little talk a little bit about them so art of flame skill line that's the first skill line uh the Dragon Knight standard that was actually a very like very popular ability used by a lot of dragon knite back in the day and uh right now I rarely do see standards out there so let's start off with the Dragonite standard um um go ahead so Dragonite standard has been nerfed multiple times um just as far as like it's actual cost it's now 250 again um the fact that it's stationary unless you use um shifting standard kind of makes it difficult and then the lack of uh group utility it used to do a damage mitigation for your entire group and now it's just for your individual self so um it just kind of is not really good in PvP anymore other than maybe the shifting standard which is good for the health debuff but the thing with standard is um it's just so easy to dodge roll out of you can negate it it's a ground effect you can just it's it's pretty easy to counter so unless you're like stacked on top of a flag and people are just totally stuck in your standard and like snared or cced or whatever there then it's just not going to be that great other than the fact that the health debuff is pretty pretty good okay Lefty um I never like standard uh I thought it was always kind of shitty in PvP um I approach it from the small scale perspective um and I guess let me let me Define small scale too because I think I see some people in like 24-man groups and then they'll call larger groups zergs I'm like dude you're a zerg so like when I say small scale I'm talking like less than four four or five people so in in that size group I've always thought that standard was kind of shitty um even from the beginning just because it's so easy um to to get out of it it's like oh you stepped in a standard okay let me let me do one Dodge roll and I'm out of it I'll just wait out here while you just play with yourself in the middle of that standard so I always thought it was kind of useless um I've never been impressed with it I've never used it in PvP so just just the she fact that all you have to do is walk right out of it and it does nothing I I don't care about that ultimate I think the only um the only place that standard has like a really is like really good would be like the sewers where it's really close Corners where like the Halls are so narrow that you almost like can't get out of it um you go forward you go backwards I mean sure you can't go side to side because you got walls right there but every time a DK uses a standard on me I'm just like thanks for wasting your ultimate personal personal opinion you asked Fang rush I know you don't play the DK class but do you have anything to comment on the uh standard ultimate yeah uh I have dks at run with my group uh as Joel said the only we brought it back in the sewers your your mic I mean Lefty uh camera drop oh my all right no C Lefty Lefty all right there we go you fish my bad Sor right so yeah um we we were using it in the sewers um you know it's hard to Warrant using it over say leap which is so good Dragon leap is so good Y and um the only way we would do it really is if there was another DK there that was going to LEAP too and it's like well we could have two leaps but it would really came down to the fact that once we were grinding through a lot of people we can't burst all of them at once we would Bol in drop a standard and uh it's very tight spaces uh neate Nova um all those very good down there that's why I really like sewers um PVP and I miss it because it's gone away but um it's out in open cidel yeah minus groups like just like ball groups clashing on a flag and dropping it I don't really see it much and if someone used it in open field I would be like thank God now he's not going to have leave up you know so Richard um I I think standard is um I think it's just one of those abilities that needs a a slight rework and what makes it's kind of similar to an ability like liquid lightning um Liquid Lightning is is only good when you synergize it and that's the same thing with standard if you can synergize it while you run somebody out of a stamina and they got to sit and take that uh healing debuff on top of the damage that dot damage that it does to you is really good but it it never works like that because you you know most people just dodge roll out of it and you can't synergize it yourself so it's just one of those abilities that kind of needs a needs a buff to increase that small scale play I don't think they really realize that a lot of people don't always run with other players and a lot of times abilities that could be used are completely useless because they don't run with other players that's just what standard is to me it's just one of those abilities that can't really use because you're solo okay so from you know my opinion regarding standard I when I played DK like way back in the day uh standard of Might was my go-to ultimate just because of how the uh the ultimate regen was working like you could get your standard up pretty quickly uh so I would just use that for resource management you know control the battlefield stuff like that eventually people started learning how to get out of the standard so I was running with leap and standard leap for single Target DPS mainly uh and then standard when I get overwhelmed by too many people the problem that I see right now with standard is the cost is just too high to uh to warn it as a uh useful ultimate over the other options you have a lot of the times you need your resources quickly so you want a cheap ultimate like Dragon leap on top of that Dragon Leaf just seems to be a little more lethal when it comes to finishing players off and yes sard is a damage over time uh but it's no longer as powerful as it used to be back then when it had the 50% healing reduction um you had situations where you could drop it on you know a Healer and then basically cut off their entire healing if you had any other form of uh healing reduction so I know we don't have heal stacking anymore but that brings us to another thing you know regarding almost all abilities ultimates that have major and minor you know debuffs uh they're just not as powerful just because of the fact that you can get the major and minor from regular abilities I feel like ultimates that have major and minor should have very unique major and minor Buffs like I feel like the healing debuff from standard shouldn't be 30% I think it should be 50% and I think the cost especially with the thing is they raise the cost of standard while also Nerf nerfing ultimate regen so it's like a double Nerf and it's just it costs too much for people to use it so honestly reducing the cost of standard and also maybe increasing the damage and healing reduction uh will definitely help make it more viable in PVP um regarding the DK class another you know problem that they have is lack of a true Gap closer uh outside of weapon abilities um and our quote unquote Gap closer is fiery grip uh that's the the chain pull so Jules I'm going to let you start off with fiery grip tell me your opinion on that ability it's bad all right next my turn no no no Jules go ahead go ahead explain your uh um I think that the way that that skill works is just totally Bonkers it's like if the person cced you get pulled to them but if they're not then they get pulled to you it's like you can never really like plan to go in One Direction or another so it's just not like a reliable Gap closer I mean it could be if they would make it go one way or the other but at this point I just don't think it it is lety I actually strongly disagree with that and VP no offense DRS um Gap closer is a gap closer I mean you close the gap that's that's all it is whether they come to you or you come to them it serves its purpose and and to me it's like it doesn't matter if I get in their face or if they get in my face as long as we're in each other's face then I can start doing my melee attacks so from that aspect I actually I actually really like um chain or fiery grip I actually really like that skill but the problem with it is is it just straight doesn't work um because if anyone Dodge rolls or has Shuffle or anything like that and then you use chain then you're screwed it it casts and then you don't go to them and they don't go to you and um one of the things that disappoints me about that is because the way the way that they worded uh whenever they made the change whenever um if you couldn't pull them to you then it pulls you to them the way that they worded it they said if for any reason whatsoever you can't pull the target to you then you get pulled to them okay that's not how it works because if they Dodge it then nothing happens so if they actually honored the way that they worded that I think it would be a really good Gap closer Fang Rush um I think chain used to be a lot cooler um it's just I think the thing that sucks about it most now is it falls into the category of CC breaks so if people have a movable up or they pop in a movable pot or they just CC broke dude's throwing out a chain it doesn't matter like it's just uh so yeah maybe he gets pulled to you but I I don't know it's just it's I I it shouldn't be tied into the CC break category I don't think um it would allow because some people want to play DK like that and they used to and that just doesn't exist like more of a support type build and they were doing things in the party focusing staying with the party yanking people in thought that would be an aspect of the class and it kind of was early on when chain had a lot of freedom uh that it just doesn't have anymore so Richard yeah I I agree um like other gap closes like Ambush uh crit crit Rush um all any other gap closer Invasion well I can't say Invasion but any other gap closer like the main Gap closer basically Ambush and crit Rush um those abilities don't give you CC immunity when you use it you can spam it on somebody and not give them CC immunity which allows for you to combinate so I can crit rush into you and then try and wreck and blow you or put a fossilize on you and CC you but for an ability like chains it just literally pulls me towards you and then it gives you a five six second CC immunity and it it throws off the fight like it makes it almost useless in PvP because if I'm going waste my CC uh Immunity on just a gap closer I might as well not have it on my bar because I'm not going to be able to get the kill um if I'm cing you just by closing the Gap and that's that's the main issue that have with that ability and also they kind of like need to extend a range and I kind of miss I kind of miss when um you can pull people off of keeps and stuff with that ability that was awesome like that was a reason to play DK like yo this dude is too close to the ledge okay come down here and let me talk to you but you can't do that anymore um so they kind of like they took away a lot of the the passion that the DK class had like it's just slowly becoming it's just slowly becoming a poo poo class and and extended change is one of those reasons why I I agree with most what you guys said my biggest concern with change is uh I mean of course I I would actually like it to be able to pull people off from you know the ledge of the keep the only reason that was you know change was because you know we had issues where other alliances would pull in groups of players so that it was easier to take the keep and that's just like a little unfortunate that people like would resort to that but it was still a part of the you know the DK class that was pretty interesting being able to pull people off keeps and stuff another problem that I have with using this ability is like Richard say is a cc immunity uh you Gap close and after you Gap close you you want to land your you know your CC so you can start doing your rotation or whatever it is uh you can't CC them you basically you Gap close and give them free CC immunity now I understand why there's CC Immunity on the chains cuz if there wasn't you could have like 3dk just just pulling some guy back and forth in a triangle uh and it just you know that that that wouldn't really be fun for for the guy being pulled but what I think they could do with this ability is have one morph pull you to them and the other morph pull them to you now the morph that pulls you to them shouldn't give your opponent CC immunity it should just act like a regular magic Gap closer uh that you use to you know pull yourself to your opponent uh the other morph can you know stay as is you know pull back and forth and give the immunity I'm sure a lot of people will probably prefer the one that doesn't give them immunity but that's just something I think what what it is is the issue is that they got it tied into C like the ability is fine like it's smart that okay if I can't pull you towards me um then I'll pull myself towards you that's smart but the issue is in order for the game to recognize um the next ability lineup which would be the pull towards the player you have to have CC immunity for that to happen or you have have to block it and that's the issue they just need to take the CC immunity away from the ability and say hey if you use this ability once on a player you got a 5-second cool down and within that 5 Seconds instead of you pulling a player towards you you pull yourself towards a player and that would solve that issue yeah so just put it if they put it on a separate you know CC cool down which is actually something they should do with not just this but other forms of CC that heck maybe even Roots need to have some sort of of separate cool down attached to it but if they had the ability to make this on a separate cool down it would be perfect because you wouldn't be giving free CC immunity but you would still have some sort of immunity from this ability cuz I think this is the only is this the only ability in the game that uh grants CC immunity without truly uh without like disorient or stun or stunning the I think it is to play to play devil Devil's Advocate on the CC thing it doesn't really bother me too much I mean yeah it's really unfortunate that it's like you said it's the only um only Gap closer or ability that grants CC immunity and doesn't actually do anything to the Target except move them that kind of sucks that that kind of sucks but um the fact that it give CC immunity doesn't break it for me because I mean you've got fossilized and you've got obsidian Shard too you have two ranged CCS you could just pop one of those and then use your Gap closer and that's exactly how I I use my Gap closers right now I pop fossilize and then I Gap close in so to me it wouldn't really affect me it it wouldn't really matter because I seec them and then instead of pulling them to me it pulls me to them so it still works just fine the only problem like I said that that breaks it is when they Dodge roll because you can you can still Gap close on anyone else with any other gap closer if they Dodge roll it just puts you in their face it won't damage them but it still puts you in their face that's what breaks that ability for me well e even though even though you're you use the fossil first and then the Gap closer after the chains after soon as you hit the fossilize with the chains it's going to break the fossilize so you still end up overall you end up giving them CC immunity I think the argument is that it's not working like other good Gap closers like Ambush I can Ambush into you and fear you that's a 5-second cc um or I can use fossilize and then wreck and blow or I can rush into you and then wreck and blow like that's the issue is that you can't Gap close in and then follow up with the CC no matter how you put it it's it's just not possible and then on top of that there's stuff like the Dodge roll cuz I mean I don't think I think you should be able to dodge roll the damage but not the actual pull in effect because you can dodge roll crit rush and everything but if if you're still if you're in the process of crit rushing you'll still go to the Target so it's a lot of stuff with that ability that needs to be worked on all right uh so we're not going to go over every single ability but we're going to go over the like the ones that I think uh need to be discussed um um Lava whip that's the second one there people a lot of people are asking for a stamina whip uh just for the stamina DK now I've been playing Stam DK uh I played a one hand and shield and two Stam DK and also played a uh two and bow styk and I found that you're kind of either forced into running rans Sack or wrecking blow for for instant DPS um and you don't really have like a class spammable skill for uh for DPS purposes so a lot of Stam deks are asking for a Stam Whip and it's actually something that's I'm I'm kind of surprised as to why we don't have a Stam stamina whip because uh all the abilities that were uh so be I'm talking before when everything was Magicka based there were certain abilities that were scaling off of armor abilities like surprise attack uh Ambush biting Jabs lava whip uh they would scale off of your opponent's armor not spell resist even though they costed Magicka you use armor to mitigate it now all those abilities got a stamina morph except lava whip I don't know the reasoning behind it I know DK has got searing strike and fiery breath as stamina morphs but those are damaged over time and we already know like damage over time uh sometimes is just not as reliable because there's so many ways to counter it cloak Purge cleanse while just instant DPS is just a little more it's a little more solid when it comes to you know building your stamina DK um so honestly I think stamina dks need to have a stamina whip uh because you're forcing a lot of St decays into either running a one hand Shield or 2 for their primarily primary DPS and then you're running just you know stamina uh weapon class abilities uh for your main DPS so you know Jules you I know you don't you're focusing on the magic DK aspect but have you played samam DK uh what do you think about it when it comes to the the whip um I've only played Stam DK a little bit but that was the main drawback for me um just the the lack of a single Target Stam ability um I don't like wrecking blow and RC just seems weird and you know I'd want to probably run like doal wield and two-hander uh you know for rally and for flying blade or whatever but um yeah I really think it's necessary and I think um molten whip should be what it is because flame lash is just Doo good in PvP for by good I mean just not really good but um I think it should be molten whip because that's the one that uh PVE dks use and it's um it it grants like what 151 damage or something extra spell damage or something to the abilities if it's slotted on the bar something like that I don't know the exact uh tool tip but I think that that could go and and PVE dks could very easily use flamelash and they wouldn't see too much of a decrease in DPS so I don't think it would affect um things too much I think it it's kind of just a no-brainer ly yeah the problem the problem with the the DK um the stam DK specifically um is and we're talking about balance here so it's when you look at the when you look at the stam night blade they've got concealed weapon and surprise attack they have their options for stamina for Magicka for instant cast DPS abilities um you've got Templars um and they've got Jabs stamina and magic amorphs and then you've got the sorcs and you got the dks that don't have the instant cast DPS stamina morphs so it's only it only makes sense to give that to them um it doesn't make sense to force them to look outside of their class abilities when the other two classes can look inside of their class abilities so you want to you want a Stam frag for sorcs or a Stam curse maybe um I'd prefer Stam frag uh and then you want a Stam whip for dks it just it just only makes sense it doesn't though come at me then because it it doesn't because you got to understand like for for instance dks they're forced to go outside of their class line to get instacast DPS right which is fine as a Nightblade as a sorcerer you're forced to go out of your class to get instacast healing which is through the wrestle staff only class that has healing built in is a Templar um so if you start giving all the classes what the other classes do uniquely yeah exactly DK's also have self-healing and that's something that night blades and Sorcerers don't have built into their class so if you start taking you know stuff that's unique to one class and you give it to another class you kind of take away the uniqueness uniqueness and skill of PVP and ESO so I'm I'm kind of against the St whip whip because then you'll get deks with an ability that hits just as hard as surprise attack on top of the fact that they still have self-healing they still have a stamina dot they still have uh tankiness and passives that restore their resources so every class has some type of uniqueness and I don't want the game to go in that direction where they start giving every class okay this class has a stamina morph so let's give it to this class I don't think that should be a thing in so so um Fang rush I'm gonna let you uh talk and then I'm going to give my opinion regarding this the back and forth left and Richard uh F I know you play Stam Sor which also kind of suffers from the same situation they don't have an instant Stam DPS but from a Stam DK Stam Sor you know just you go ahead yeah I agree a lot with what Richard just said actually um cuz people tag me a lot on the forums about Stam Sor bounce they say where's their where's our Stam frags and that'd be pretty strong I don't even know how it would work because big strength of frags that it procs when you use other skills you know how would my stem frags proc when I'm Wrecking blowing people and if it did that'd be pretty wild if I could wreck and blow someone pop him with a frag and execute them I mean you you could cause some trouble there but for me I agree a bit with King what I'd like to see is just more Stam options for people that don't have them um on my sorc I have 15 Circ skills I have four of them skilled I use three of them the fourth one I throw in for PVE I mean that's awful I don't even skill the other ones cuz they're all they're not good for me and um it's that's just how little stamsorc has at its disposal so that's just a problem they need to address they just need to go through and say Here's a bunch of skills that this guy would never use maybe we can make them useful I mean they even just put in a set for Stam SS to use some pet arm that's for I mean that's for Stam night blades but oh okay then then you know what then they don't even care about Stam so but it's just yeah I I what I'd like to see is just more options like like again just agreeing with what king said like you don't have to give just a straight insta damage to everyone in their class line like that's what that's where Stam Templars are good when I group with Issa he's always going to do more quick DPS than I can cuz he can jab and he has burning light like to synergize with it that's what his class has from a stamina perspective now I'm fine not having something like that that synergizes with my passives for more damage but I'd like to have some stamina option somewhere else in there because hybrid builds just don't work and the fact that they Cap CP just crushes hybrid builds that much more hybrids won't be here till 2017 or something when they raise the CP ceiling and even then the game just doesn't function too well when it comes to hybrids you have hybrid utility at best that's it so um there you go that's my I'll give my opinion on the topic uh I I kind of disagree with uh I I mainly agree with Lefty Point regarding the stamina build because the way I see it is let's look at Magic builds for a second every magic build so we got Templars got the Jabs night blades got concealed DK's got the lava Whip and uh Sorcerers have their frags just it's just bread and butter DPS um so even with from the Magicka builds the the sorcerers and night plates have to go out of their class skill line to get reliable healing but they don't have to go out of their classic land to get reliable you know instant DPS but then when you go into the stamina Spectrum you got a situation where um some classes have to go out of their class skin line to get healing and DPS so let's look at the stam DK uh Stam dks are usually running two or three Stam I mean DK abilities so going to what much said adding more stamina options will help uh but at the end of the day people want stamina options that they can actually use uh in their PVP setup efficiently so we have searing strike and fiery breath but outside of I mean they're both dots so you you you'll be running two separate set of dots and dots can easily be countered just just I feel like when it comes to the DK Class A stamina whip is the answer for them for Sorcerers like I don't know how a Stam frag will work a sorcerer probably should have a little more options when it comes to you know stamina utility in in their in their other you know abilities but just regarding the DK class in particular because that's what we're talking about right now there's a lot of dks that are running like one or two DK abilities and usually one of them is the ultimate and it's you know ferocious leap or Dragon Leaf so um I don't know about Stam frag I really haven't played stamina sorcer yet to comment on that uh but I've played Stam DK long enough and I know but they are very limited when it comes to their source of DPS because they don't have a stamina whip um and they have to go out of their class skin line to for heals and for DPS because Green Dragon Blood we'll get to that in a second but Green Dragon Blood is just out of the picture nowadays so um there's one more ability that we're going to talk about from Ardent flame before we go to the next skill line and I want to try to get through these quick we have four classes to cover but that's all we're talking about this uh this podcast outside of the the arena so um Inferno now I have not played with Inferno but a lot of dkss that I've played with or I've talked about Inferno from both PVE and PVP perspective have told me that Mage Light is just the better option so uh Jules I'm going let you start off with this um in my opinion both of the morphs of Inferno are just pretty useless for a magic ATK um you have one that gives I think weapon crit and then the other one has this like insane getes back like 151 Magicka if you kill a person with that little flame ball oh my God which is is like the likelihood of that happening is so is like pretty low and then you think even if that does happen you get back 151 Magicka it's like what is that going to do for me in like a 30 to 40K Magicka pool that's just so it just looks like it must be a typo or something it's like insane to me um other than that I mean in PVE I run both so I run Mage Light for the 7% extra Magicka um 5% of the skill 2% from the passives and then Inferno for the dot um I don't really PVE anymore so I don't know if that's like what people are doing or whatever but um but yeah so I think that that one of those morphs should definitely uh just be a little bit better like if it if it returned more Magicka then then it might be viable but in PvP I don't see how either would really be viable when when toggles take up two slots they're just too valuable to to have to give up for something that just gives be back like so little Lefty yeah I just had to Google what the skill is like I was like I was like what the hell is that and then I look at it I'm like oh that's that terrible one that I never even like even messed with yeah that skills garbage like yeah um approaching it from a especially from a PVP perspective Jules hit my point right at the end right there the toggles the toggles um really put you at a disadvantage with the The Limited number of abilities that we have if you want to really make use of a toggle um Bound Armor on a sorc or or Inferno on a DK th those two abilities I like Bound Armor a lot more than I like Inferno but I dislike both of them um because I swap weapons like crazy when I when I PvP because I I view my I view my second bar as an extension of my first bar not a completely different entity so my my combos are like they they require me to weapon swap in the middle of my in the middle of my combat so I I can't use Inferno and and just looking at it like it's just like even if I could use it I wouldn't it just I I don't know what the answer is for that skill I think probably delete it and and give us something else because it's it's poo poo I agree with that I think Inferno needs to either be deleted or completely reworked and on top of that toggle abilities just it's a people find of really hard to to find a place for togg abilities because you have to slot two of your abilities you have to give up two of your abilities for one toggle siphoning strikes had that issue and they gave one of the morph of siphoning strikes I think or both of them are just like a self buff honestly Inferno should be reworked into a self buff uh Fang rush I'll let you talk about it um I don't know about this skill no you don't know about it because no one us that's fine I mean I I I didn't I actually didn't even know the morph that Jules described I I'm looking at it right now and that is the most terrible thing I've ever seen you have to kill someone with your with your dot that happens every few seconds and it hits so weak and you have to kill them and then you get like some mag like 150 Magicka back that's it's it's useless it's a 100% useless ability and it's a lot of them in the game and those abilities are the abilities that need to be taken out and then they can like start to kind of meet on on a middle ground with the players like people are asking for a Stam Whip and here you got this ability slide hey give him something like take that ability out the game and give us something that's useful because that ability is not useful now Bound Armor I know you said something about Bound Armor Lefty but Bound Armor is actually one of my favorite toggle abilities I I it's really good it gives maximum stamina and it increases your heavy damage by 11% so it's actually really good and then on top of that the only reason I like it on the stamina sorc is because you can use your overload bar to get those two skill slots back so Bound Armor is another story and I think that's a good ability but Inferno take it out the game give DK something more useful cuz it's it's useless now one question before we continue to the next ability really quick regarding toggle abilities yes or no just simple yes or no do you think toggle abilities should stay toggled as long as they're toggled on one bar regardless of weapon swap I think I think what should happen with toggle abilities they should probably try to do something to keep it a toggle ability but only have it take up one bar like maybe they can say okay hey you activate this ability and then when you're not on that bar you have 10 seconds to swap back to the bar before the ability wears off I think that would be more of a legitimate option because I don't really like what they did with siphoning attacks I kind of miss it being a toggle and being on 100% of the time now you really got to focus on keeping that up as a buff on top of your other Buffs I really like that idea that that rich just said um another option that dks are probably looking for is like uh sorcs have their power rush or what the hell is it called crit not crit Rush uh crit search Power search something that can give you um major sorcery or major brutality any kind of like self buff that could be an option for that skill since it's so I would love to see major sorcery attach to that skill and make make it a self buff major sorcery self buff I would like to see that uh but just like guys yes or no on do you do you think toggle abilities should stay toggled uh and when I mean when I say stays toggled the effect stays the effect stays on both bars Lefty yes or no I don't know it's tough I lean more towards yes than no um but I'm I'm really not sure sish I'm not sure I don't think you could solution it just based on that it would make everybody running like two toggles pretty much right on every class and every build okay the issue with them being on only one bar is that they're free to toggle on so it would be adventitious to have like two on each bar and then just or one on each bar and and then they're not costing you anything but they're giving you something so it's kind of like an issue in that way they should have like a 5-second timer when you swap bars and then it'll open up more bu build choices cuz say you got you know Inner Light and then B you want to run in light and bound AR armaments you can like time how much you swap weapons and say hey I swap weapons basically every 5 seconds I can put in light on my main bar and then put Bound Armor on my off bar and I'll keep both of these buff Buffs up just by swapping weapon weapons um I think that would be a better option than to just have toggles on 100% of the time but I think that's kind of like meeting in the middle okay so regarding that the the main issue I have regarding toggles is if you run a toggle you're first you're basically forced to run it on both bars uh because of the fact that it un toogles when you swap back so let's say you have a DPS bar let's say on a magic DK I have a DPS bar I want to put Mage line on that bar but on my back bar I don't really need the Mage Light crit I just have just some Buffs on my back bar uh the problem is you have to run on both bars cuz in the middle of combat when you swap from your uh your main bar to your back bar and then you swap back the Mage slot will be deactivated then you have to activate it and it's just too slow in PvP I think honestly not having it active on both bars but if if you toggle it on one bar it stays toggled and once you switch back to that bar you get the effect as long as you know it's still on your bar um right that I think that's the middle ground that I think that I think what we get into with this with that um your your your suggestion Cipher is the imbalance between PVP and PVE because honestly I think the way toggles work right now is perfectly fine for PVE it it seems like a purely PVP thing and and a lot of times we we tend to ignore PVE here but you really I mean you keep you can't exactly do that with everything in this game so I don't I don't know if the making toggles always work even if it's on one bar would fix it because I I I think it's just I don't know it's I that one's tough that one's tough the cost of toggles is the fact that you have to run it on two bars because they don't cost anything so like if you take away the fact that they have to be rogle then like a you know if toggles are more seamless you may have options where you could run on one bar but toggles are awful yeah you have to like if you turn something on it's like it's like you get disabled it's such yeah I I agree with Lefty on that cuz I I was totally just thinking about PVP and in PVE I run in light on both of my bars and I I I do just fine it gives me the max magic that I get the spell crit and it just overall boost my build and I don't have an issue with not you know I don't have an issue with running it on both bars but in PvP I wouldn't even think about running inter light on any of my bars so yeah it's just a PVE PVP thing and we got to think about both sides of the uh of the fence all right next skill line draconic power uh okay there's I think two or three abilities we're going to talk about here um first one this is the main one Dragon Blood Dragon Blood used to be DK's main source of healing it actually was regarded as a very overpowered ability early on in the game um where did it all go wrong Jules go ahead um I'm not really sure to be honest with you something between last last patch and this patch um I don't know if the the battle spirit buff is applying in a different place or it's applying twice or what's happening with green dragon's blood but it's just so terrible it's like you can be half health and even with an ignas up you're getting like two 3K heels and it's like you just can't you can't do anything with that um even if you have like like on my DK I think I have like 80 or or something like that into blast and quick recovery and you can try everything that you want but if you're a magic a DK you're running in a like a Resto or you're going to get killed and you're going to run blessings of restoration and that's just what I mean that's what every DK that I know is doing I I only know one DK who runs um dragon's blood still and you're just completely dependent on Templar healers oh you say Dragon Blood you mean coagulating right coagulating I don't use I haven't used Green Dragon blood in months and months because doesn't stack with the tripods um so it just doesn't it's any ability that gives Stam regen because there's only minor and major Buffs now they need to they need to separate pots they need to separate ultimates even if it does give major those that stuff should stack cuz it it it's eliminating a lot of abilities and and different play Styles out of the game like a lot of people would say hey I'm going run this particular pot and I'm going to get my recoveries from these pots but you can't do that anymore because you already get the recoveries from a class ability and it's just not stacking it's really it's really ruining PVP and PVE Lefty yeah yeah I don't know what it is um like I used to run Stam Stam DK for a while and I used to use coagulating as my heel um and it was fantastic I would wait um I usually run the tank build so I would wait until I'm like super low because that that was my favorite favorite uh mechanic about Dragon Blood was that it healed you more when you were less uh when you had lower HP so I would build to have a high HP pull and then I would wait until I'm like super low like once I get in the execute range and then I would pop a dragon blood it would pull me way high into HP um so I'd need like two two dragon Bloods um to get to get to like almost full health um and then 1.7 or update seven comes along and I need like 14 Dragon Bloods to get from XP range to full so it's like something something doesn't make sense with the with the um so sure they they reduced healing but it it feels like they reduced it by too much just for that ability I don't I don't understand or it's like they took out the the scaling when you're low on HP or something it's like the issue is the ability itself is a percentage heal whenever you have percentages in this game they don't stack properly so which is one of the reasons why they did the major and minor stuff because they didn't want percentages to stack too much but that's the issue like you got a healing debuff that takes away 50% of your healing and then you heal for 30% and then the mathematics within the game is just not stacking correctly and you're getting like honestly you get like a 10% heal from Dragon Blood I'm not even lying 165 16.5 if you divide 33 by two is that at one HP yeah and that's at yeah that's it so if you use it if you use it at like 80% then you probably get like you probably get like garbage for yeah they just did a flat heel that would scale the way the other heels do then it would be better fish do you have anything in common regarding this ability uh not really I know a lot of people used to use it used to be very strong and um yeah the numbers are probably screwed up man a lot of a lot of numbers get screwed up when they patch things uh there's stuff screwed up right now that um probably won't be fixed till the next big patch so I mean the thing is it's it's a 33% heal of your missing Health honestly uh the battle the battle combat Spirit whatever it is that reduces your healing should not even apply this ability because this isn't even this ability doesn't have like a set number it's just a percentage of your health so it should either be percentage of your health or it should be an actual number that gets reduced by 50% uh that way it doesn't get you know double nerfed on top of that like I mean another thing that made this ability a little worse over time was uh overall health pools are a lot smaller than they used to be so you don't have as much health to restore but of course that's just that's just like a that's an option that people run with like you can still run with 30k health which was the average Health pool back then so that's just you know if if you have low Health you know you won really get as big of a heal but the thing is the blanket Nerf the damage blanket Nerf that was applied and the healing blanket Nerf that was applied 50% battle spirit debuff on all healing and and damage has caused some issues because certain abilities where affected more than others like green dragon blood and then certain DPS abilities like are really not not affected at all in comparison to some that just don't hit that hard anymore so Green Dragon Blood definitely needs to be reworked whether they make battle spirit not apply to it at all that's something I would like to see or make it into an actual you know uh solid number but honestly I prefer it to keep its original state where it restores 33% of your missing Health without any uh healing reduction applied to it uh cuz even with even without the healing reduction apply to it people are running with 20 to 25k Health pools you're not going to get a huge heal unless you're very low Health second thing that that is wrong with this ability is the potions give you stamina regen and you can keep up the potions for 100% of the time if you have the passives you can have 100% of time on your Stam region so your green dragon blood actually doesn't benefit you at all if you're using tripods and a majority of the PV PVP players do use tripods or not even tripods but even anything that's is going to give you stamina back with the stamina region applied to it so the major uh is it major um what is the uh whatever it is that gives you stamina Stam regen yeah major endurance major endurance uh it it should be changed on the stability to where it's either major or minor depending on the if you have the major up already uh or a minor up already or should just be completely different and maybe restore maybe should should restore a certain amount of uh percentage of your stamina back when you cast the ability so there's a lot of things that need to be redone with uh Green Dragon Blood um I I was going to talk about reflective scales uh but I mean just the main thing regarding reflect is in in my opinion just like let's just keep this one short I think reflective skills is nice but it shouldn't have a four projectile limit anymore considering that make the seconds the limit it's already 4 seconds long like how many projectiles are you really like going to be reflecting in 4 seconds like if there's a lot then you know that's the point of the class it's supposed to be tanky I think the one projectile per second thing if you're getting mowed down by a bunch of people and they're all you know sending frags and stuff your way you should be able to reflect all of them within that 4 second period or more than four at least the other thing with that is it's totally bugged I see all kinds of videos of people just like cooping meteors and frags and whatever the whatever um I actually like skilles I like where it's at right now a lot better than where it was before I feel like it was way too crazy before I don't I disagree with you um when you say that why can't I reflect all these frags if you got like 40 40 sorcs on you and you just throw up scales and and you just throw 40 frags right back in their face that seems ridiculous to me I actually my thing my thing I was always cyer you notice I was always against reflective scals especially before they nerfed it with the four projectiles I was always against it only reason I was against it though is because as a stamina sorcerer literally my only DPS yeah as a magical sorcerer my only DPS was crushing shock and Crystal fragment and then with the occasional curse and curse was never enough to kill somebody that had reflective skills up the entire fight so that's why I was against it but now there's a lot of abilities a lot of abilities in the game that give you an advantage over dks that you reflective scals so they can bring back the the 4 second infinite projectile uh reflect if they want to I don't have I'm not against that anymore just because they changed the game before it was a little bit ridiculous but now I mean you got night blades running surprise attack sell weapon um Sorcerers running magic a debt or inevitable debt uh you got people running proxy debt you got curse you got wrecking blow you got so many different counters to reflect the skills now they need to rebuff it because that was one of the things things that gave um dks an advantage and it's only going to affect people that don't know what they're doing cuz the the animation is clear as day like when somebody pops reflective scals I see it and I'm not throwing anything until I see the the animation go away so yeah bring that back bring the skilles back um I think when it used to be 4 seconds or whatever you know stamina really wasn't a thing so everybody was magic so everyone felt the pain really bad it's true there's a lot more around it such as playing a Stam class but um if with with the current hard caps and everything uh that don't really exist I mean if you have enough regen you could chain those wings all day yep and you would just be it'd be built into you and that would be something you are it's just like a you know projectiles don't work on me it wouldn't protect you necessarily out there but it seems to just eliminate certain people and that's how I used to feel when I played magic ofur I was like H it's one of those guys I'll just move right on to the next one and um and let the mob take him down so I don't know I can I can almost still have reflect on at all times with a build that has absolutely garbage for magic regen and Magic AO like I can almost still permanent permanently reflect stuff let me let me explain uh why I feel like reflective skills should not have a cap on it and you just got to it first of all back then and now it's a completely different play style back then every single projectile you reflected granted you ultimate which made reflective scales even more powerful because of the unlimited it just kind of worked that way on top of that there was there wasn't as many ways to break through reflect and right now from a solo PVP perspective as a Nightblade if I run into a large group of players I have a chance at getting away using cloak let's just say like T sorcs throw a frag at me I cloak they I dodge all of them I'm gone as a sorcerer I can streak away I'm gone Templar dks now I'm not here's the thing at first I was initially asking for dks to have Mobility to escape the xer but really that would make things a little like you need some diversity I think DK should be able to stand their ground uh and not just like it's not it's not going to be an easy way to stand your ground because the way I see it is reflective skills right now the Nerf only really applies when you have like five or six people shooting things at you that's when you're going to feel oh my like this Nerf is affecting you um my question is why do you why would you handicap I know Richard said this once you got 10 to 20 people fighting one guy who has reflect uh why would you handicap the one person who's being pelted like being you know ambushed with all these different projectiles where the 10 or 20 people could easily just use any ability that is not reflectable and melt that one DK why why would you handicap the one person on his own cuz reflective skilles Nerf does not change anything when it comes to one on one one on two one on Three it doesn't change anything but now now the the level the level 10 who doesn't who has no idea what he's doing he has a he has a bow he's sitting in the background just light attacking you with your reflect up he's he's causing more harm just just by not knowing what he's doing uh to you honestly you shouldn't the one person you shouldn't the minority and uh make the majority have an easier time killing someone um yeah you can keep reflect up at all times but now there's so many different things that can go through reflect and um the DK class is just not the same anymore this is something that I feel like uh could help bring back the magic of DK into the scene um and help DK stand their ground a little better because dks don't have Mobility but they should have the ability to stand their ground uh one way or another or have the chance cuz I'm not saying you you're going to send your gun with reflect because people can still just start heavy attacking with Resto Destro bunch of stamina builds can Ambush into you and you'll be done but at least have that option to where a DK um can kind of control the scene if they get heavily outnumbered just for a little bit a night blade can cloak sorcerer can streak or Shield stack uh Dodge DK is GNA have something as well uh in my opinion yeah I agree I maybe um maybe reconsidering like an uncapped projectile limit maybe it shouldn't be uncapped but maybe it should just be more than four um well I mean you could just give it you could give it the streak the streak treatment or the Dodge roll treatment and make it cost 33% more every time uh you recast it within you know 6 seconds every 4 it can't be 6 seconds it has to it has to be it has to be the the debuff timer has to be uh shorter than the actual duration it has to be like 3.5 seconds on a recast to make it so that you have to actually time your skills or four seconds don't them four seconds it can't be 4 seconds because I mean four seconds it when the ability is up which you should be able to do then no you use it right when the ability goes away no you should use it it should be used like within a 2 second to 3 second I mean here's the thing guys exactly that's what I that's magic DK is in such your crappy position that I think buffing reflective skills to be unlimited projectiles even that won't save the class but at least will start getting going the right direction that's why I feel like you know unnerfed scales is something that they need to do uh I mean dks have been in a really bad spot ever since uh 1.6 1.6 um so something needs to be done something drastic and I think that's something could be you know reflective skills being unnerfed dks can stand their ground um we're going to skip inhale uh we could talk about that in a future time when we revisit class or Jules do you just want to talk about it really quickly um before we leave before we leave scales um I just wanted to comment uh Cypher you mentioned why should you handicap the one guy against the 20 people um I see that perspective but I think I think the more important question is why should the one guy be able to press one ability and kill all 20 people um true well he won kill him the thing is it's about survivability well so so that's the thing that's that's that's exactly the problem that dks have is survivability I agree with you entirely there um but I don't think it's I don't think it's because of scales I don't think it's because of the scales Nerf something something just doesn't feel tanky with my DK anymore like I I literally just dropped I literally just dropped heavy armor with this update and I've been running heavy since beta it's like some something with the DK something with their base survivability is not the way it used to be um and it's it's something that's happening in in the code with the math I don't know what it is but it's it's the base it's the base tankiness the I think I think permanent reflect is ridiculous I always hated scales like honestly right now scales is I said it before it's in it's in my favorite spot because it's not ridiculous before it was just out downright ridiculous like like uh Fang Rush said you run into one of those guys that are using scales and you're like okay well I'll just fight someone else it's like that's that's stupid I I think that's ridiculous so it's it's the base tankiness that we need I feel like I like like I said I literally just dropped heavy armor I don't know what it is but people are still like two- hitting me when I'm in heavy armor it's like I can't survive as my DK anymore battle Roar is great but it's not enough right now it's it's the base tankiness um the base survivability I don't know something with the passives what they do like get rid of that one passive that increases our spell resistance or something like is it not there anymore I don't understand no I can I can elaborate no it's not even Perma block cuz Lefty never per block I can elaborate on this perfectly there's a lot of things that happen one of the major things not Che left Lefty but other dks like the light armor Magicka dks they're not tanky because they change the way light armor um resistances were the 25% instead of exactly yeah yeah right right so that's one thing that's just one thing now on your side Lefty you've been running a heavy armor tanky DK bill for the longest white streaks warlock um but in these new updates um you can't kill anything with white streaks warlock which is one thing I had I had just to on my sorcerer cuz I ran white staks warlock also and I wasn't I was not able to kill anything I was tanky I could survive I could tank anything I wouldn't die but I wasn't able to kill anything and that led to US changing our builds up because before me and ley's build was and I did the same thing I was a magical sorcer he was a stamina DK our bill was to out sustain the opponent and then and then beat you to death once you ran out of resources they took that away there's no more resource battle in this game so you either have to have high burst DPS or you have to be a face tank you have to choose one or the other because nobody's running out of resources and that's that's that's what changed in these updates is the fact that no one runs out of resources and it causes people to change up their builds so that's a good topic that you brought up the resources that segue no it's it's all good because um relevant though I feel like when when I'm making a PVP build right now I either have you know sustained EPS with a solid execute like my magic and I played uh Destro Resto build I have an execute I'll be running execute with that and have some burst options or I'll have so much damage that my wrecking blow will just take people out or my frags whatever like the the the point is right now if you're not running high damage or have a solid execute it's very difficult to take people out you can't just out sustain them which is something the DK did really well dks could out sustain people if they played properly their Resource Management uh was was well they could out sustain people but now it doesn't really matter because a lot of people can can have really high damage and be very glassy but still have like really really good sustain and that that champion points champion points not just Champion points but we also had a major shift from soft caps to no caps at all no it's 100% Champion points though the the resource battle like if you fight Cipher you take out your points from your magic recovery stamina recovery Stam reduction magic reduction you will run out of resources I've done it already I've I've like was fighting and I'm like damn I'm running out of resources I go look at my Champion tree and I forget to put points in those trees or I'm running a stamina uh Champion tree setup when I'm on my magic aill and you feel it like you literally cannot fight without the champion tree anymore and in order to fight without the champion tree we would have to go back to our older builds but the champion tree is what ruined the resource battle for everybody I completely agree I think that um the the strength of the DK class was that it could out sustain like Cipher was saying um you could take the damage and you could just out sustain them because you had battle Roar and other things of that nature and with that um with that battle out of the way it it makes dks not being able to do damage or tank and everybody being able to have unlimited resources it just makes them much much weaker all right let's let's move on uh we've been talking about the DK for an hour I know it's a DK has a lot to talk about so um I'm not sure how long we'll I mean I'm not sure if we'll cover every single class but we'll see how the time goes uh molten weapons the DK's quote unquote execute hate us cuz they a us they hate us cuz we a us uh one sec um I was just waiting for the uh the resub to pass it was actually really loud okay molten weapons Jules go ahead um every other class has has a one button execute night blad's got one that can be stamina or Magicka um rating destruction's really strong um the Sor one is is decent um sucks we'll get we'll get into whatever um but everybody everybody's like uh well DK have an execute it's like no you got to keep up a like a 9-second buff and then like try to weave in like heavy attacks like come on give me a break that's not the same as as like just spamming like Killer's blade or radiant destruction that's clearly not the same it it's just and I I wouldn't even care if we didn't have an execute like I said like all these damage Nerfs and stuff they're only applicable because of the lack of sustain so if I could Out Tank somebody and and have the resources to be able to just kill them just by like whittling them down then that would be okay but I mean you just you don't have the damage and you don't have the sustain on a DK and that's what the issue is you know they nerfed molten weapons right uh medium weaves used to prop the 150% buff and they made it to where you have to fully charge a heavy attack to get the buff I I there's no way anybody's ever going to convince me that that's the same as pressing killer blade once that's I just don't understand how um I don't understand where where who was complaining about molten weapons to the point where they got nerfed I molten weapons was incredibly op in PVE in PVE okay keep that up and all of your medium weaves in between everything um that was one of the huge strengths of the DK with Crush shock right uh with with whip but oh they were doing it with whip yeah and it's just it's so seamless to be able to weave mediums with whip and every single one of those mediums was like is it like 40% more it's or something like that 44 or something like that um every all of those were so now we have look we have an situ situation where like PVE nerfing PVP again yeah PVE like this is a PVE ability that got nerfed and then as a result it became even more useless in PvP um Lefty what do you think about this um I don't know I struggle it's it's hard to balance all this stuff I mean we got to take into account this is why this is why class balance is my it's my toughest topic to talk about um especially in this game because you've got PVE you've got PVP so you got to take all that into account um and and we talked about it earlier um I already forget what ability that was or we're talking about toggles I mean so we identified that before so maybe this is one of those things where it didn't get identified um maybe tone down the numbers not just make it completely shitty um but it right now it's completely like it's don't don't even use it in PvP I tried it I mean it was nice but I felt like I felt like my fights became entirely about managing that that ability and keeping that ability on um so it's it's just not it's just not that great honestly it's actually op but only on one particular build which is the the heavy Attack One Shot DK build it's actually really op because those heavy attacks were hitting for 35k on players wreck and blow no no even in this patch C just very very particular builds like the St DK can run this for ganking even a magic DK using a deathro could possibly get some really heavy shots in but it's just very particular and just applies to just one play style um okay but we also have to this this the other thing that makes it tough when we talk about this stuff is we also have to to keep in mind that we want each class to have an identity yeah so does it I mean well we don't want an ex a cute like that but maybe a damage Buff when you get your opponent below a certain amount of Health something like that like like a passive or something it's just yeah you got to do it some way where it's not it's not identical so I don't know it's tough last ability on DK before we move on to the next class um we've been taking a really long time with the DK but I mean it's about like an hour with the DK and then I don't know what we're going to do with the other classes how we're going to fit them in but uh DK seems to be the most heavily discussed class right now outside of knif Blade being too powerful in certain situations ashcloud ashcloud used to be another aspect of the DK that was really really good to remain tanky and now the DK has to actually go outside of their class SK line to receive Dodge chance and I think that's something that should be reverted um just ask I they can't revert it though because the only reason they took those abilities out blinding flashes and cinderstorm was because of the major and minor Buffs there's only one Dodge chance bonus in the game well there there should be a debuff to your I mean right okay so right now there is no such thing as a major uh or like a debuff that what was it called a debuff that makes your opponent Miss more blind a blind yeah there's no major blind in the game and I think that's something that should come back to the game you should have the ability to to debuff your opponent's chance at hitting you um yeah you have a situation where you got you you know you blind someone for 20% and you also have 20% Dodge and you know misses will happen all over the place but um maybe even just giving it to the DK class and Templar class CL will go a long way because they were pretty much the only class that had something like that I know night blade had blur but blur was reworked to be better anyways uh I think dks and Templars you know since they don't have Mobility they should be the classes that can debuff you know an opponent's chance of hitting them 20% there should be a there should be a major blind that dks have and a major blind that Templars have and I think I know we might not be able to talk about tempar today but I think like an ability like blazing Shields should apply you know major blind to the people that are around you who get hit by it or something like that or yeah but would that stack with major evasion because if it Stacks with major evasion you get a 40% Dodge what I'm saying is what I'm saying is dks and Templars should have that option to have that just be majorization that's what I'm saying are you trying to say that that should stack with major r% Okay so so I mean I honestly I think it should but I mean people might might not agree with me um because dks just don't have a survivability to stand there anymore and and here's the thing that will make dks overpowered in one-on-one situations if they have 20% all situations not just because because it comes down to survivability you're not killing anyone if if they're missing all their attacks on you not all their attacks but 40% of their attacks but a nightl can just cloak and and they'll be gone or a a a sorcerer can just Shield they don't even have to have Dodge chance their Shields will will be giving you a lot more you know uh but those are those are all abilities that have to be activated you have to activate cloak and then you have to stay in Cloak to survive you have you have to be standing inside the ashcloud to be BL that's what I'm saying if you're standing inside the ashcloud the Dodge chance is still is still passive so say you run the the ashcloud along with elusive mist and you got a 40% Dodge chance and you pop reflective scales your reflecting attacks you literally become op back in the day DK again or op back in the day Templar when blazing Shield was op like that would just give them too way too much of an advantage in outnumber situations and and one V ones oh call it a call it a day because if you got 40% die chance and I'm trying to proc a frag and I miss you with that Crystal fragment I'm just going to jump out the window cuz okay cuz I already have a hard time hitting dks with Crystal fragment let alone giving them 40% Dodge chance oh God that be ridiculous so so you think ashcloud I mean I mean I would I would be okay with with either one ashcloud should have just 20% Dodge chance instead of having to go like because as as a magic a DK having to use Shuffle to get your Dodge chance is kind of can't do it you can't do it I can I can agree with that and I I would even say up Ash glow back to 30% do chance okay well here's the thing it should be 30% it should be 30% uh and that's St it should just be it just it should just be a unique major evasion that doesn't stack with the other evasion but it should be 30% and the uh the the stam regen from from Green Dragon Blood should be a unique 30% Stam regen that doesn't stack with other things but that that that goes into the major and minor you know system that they applied it kind of just doesn't work with certain abilities and they have to take it out of this I think astr should should come back with 30% Dodge chance I I agree with you I'm I'm not against okay let's Okay so we we got a poll going on in the chat because we're clearly not going to be able to cover every single class I'm going to spam it again uh ley's been spamming it but I'm going to uh I think we should we should do Nightblade or Sorcerer And then save Templar for that's I think we should save Templar we we should bring two Templar guests uh next podcast and actually have them talk about it because I haven't played Templar yet I play Templar but like I said I don't like the class and I don't do I don't do good enough like like a blab of fat or I don't play it enough like blab or you know some of these other Templars like Jack Daniels I don't play Templar enough to none of us does they even talk about it okay Templar Templar is currently winning the vote but it we we would be doing the class in Injustice if we talked about it without actually having uh some Templar guests on the podcast to give us their point of view because I know fers doesn't play Templar left play Templar play Templar I'm fairly new to it so need to it so I think honestly we should save Templar for a future class discussion um because of the fact that we don't have proper Templar representation it just it would be it' be bad for the class if we talked about it and gave our opinion on it without having some people who played Templar as their main class and know the ins and outs of it so night PL is winning in second so we're just going to go ahead and talk about the Nightblade class um and I think there's there's not as much to talk about because not every single not every single night blade ability is broken like the DK classes so we should be talking about how to Nerf night blade yeah we we'll probably be talking about how to Nerf night blade class um and I'm this I I main Nightblade and night blade is my favorite class but recently on my streams I haven't been playing the night bu class just because it's just sometimes it feels too easy I actually prefer to play my Stam DK which actually has some sort of uh degree of difficulty to play with um night blade assassination skill line I don't think okay no actually there is an ability we should we we really need to talk about Ambush teleport strike teleport strike and this this will tie into not just Ambush but all G closers but teleport strike is the biggest offender for this uh I don't know if you guys have this problem but sometimes you know you'll be you know trying to move out of a situation and you'll get this one night blade who who has Ambush slotted on all six of their ability slots they have it slotted on ambush as their ultimate as well um and they are just ambushing into you over and over and over and the thing is it's not even for DPS purposes they know what they're doing you know what they're doing they're abusing the system with cap closes stop you from from hiding them away from their Zerg move you can't move yeah they're just trying to they're trying to slow you down to allow the Zerg to catch up to you um and of course every single Gap closer has that little half a second stun route attached to it I know they have that in for a reason I I remember they said that it was so that you know if one player was trying to get from point A to point B and you know the player at point B moved out of the way the little half a second you know stun would allow the player to catch up to them before they start moving again um that causes a lot of issues because let's just say you have you know retreating Maneuvers up which is supposed to give you stun and snare immunity not stun it's supposed to give you root and snare immunity but if you have if you have retreating Maneuvers up and you you have 100% snare and root immunity someone can keep you in place with Ambush spam by just you know ambushing the ambushing into you and the reason why Ambush is the biggest offender is I think it's the only Gap closer or one of the only Gap closes that doesn't have uh a minimum distance required to Ambush does anyone know every other gap closer has a minimum distance right uh yeah you're 100% right you cannot crck rush into somebody that is standing next to you uh leap is also the same way but that's I mean here I mean Ambush no Ambush is fine though with that I'm 100% fine well I'm fine with Ambush not having a minimum distance but I mean the reason the reason it's an issue right now is because because of the snare slash root that is applied you can spam ambush from Point Blank Range and keep someone in place uh the entire time even if they have imunity um I was going to say we didn't talk about this when it when it came to LEAP but leap is like the only targeted ultimate or the only target ability in the game that you can dodge by walking out of the way I know I mean we didn't really talk about it but like say you're leaping from a really really long distance onto someone if they walk away before you land they'll actually avoid your damage like they don't have to dodge roll or or you know they don't have to dodge roll out of the way they can just literally walk out of the way and you'll leap on to where they were initially and they won't take any damage so but that's just that's a discussion in itself Ambush Ambush has a problem it's not an overpowered ability but because of the fact that when you when you Gap close someone they get snared for half a second uh rooted whatever it is uh a lot of players will start spamming Ambush to keep you in place and not allow you to move Lefty um I don't know I don't I don't really I don't know if I'm if I'm really qualified much to comment on night blade because it's the one class that I really have never played the only thing I know about Nightblade um is from fighting them and the Ambush bam is just annoying to me it's not like I don't think it's from having never played one I don't think it needs to be changed so but I think you can probably just ignore everything I just said because I don't know okay so comment on the okay so here's the thing in my opinion Ambush and motus fan aren't overpowered uh as far as Gap closes go they're a strong Gap closer they're probably one of the strongest Gap closers but comment on the the root and stun that is applied when someone Gap closes into you regardless of your immunity well regardless of the Gap closer too because that happens with every Gap closer yeah that's that's a problem that's needed to be fixed since beta well that's a widely known problem and it's just it's just a little worse with Ambush because you get the little stun too or the roof sorry there's a couple things though there's a couple things Ambush gives an immobilized Lotus fan gives a snare so there's like two different things like when whenever you run into a magic night blade if they're hitting you with lotus fan CH you're rooted and snared consistently so it's it's kind of op especially Lotus fan I hate Lotus fan more than Ambush but they both do the same thing they both stop you from moving but Lotus fan stops you from moving and immobilize and uh gives you uh a snare fers you have anything to say regarding whether I mean we're talking Ambush right now but it's more about the effects of Gap Clos I'm 100% qualified to speak on this one go ahead this is one of the worst things in the game um because I rely on mobility and this thing is just a joke uh Ambush is the worst Defender and then conversely if someone crit rushes you while you're sprinting you'll see you get Frozen for a second you can just roll and Dodge it so you can actually Dodge crit Rush on one end and then Ambush you can't Dodge Ambush just locks you down and you said before CER these these guys know what they're doing uh no they most of them don't 95% of them don't cuz if you catch them one V one they're still spamming ambush in your face they don't know what's going on they're just pounding that key down and hoping for the best and they don't even know how annoying it is like if I go into like a 1v4 I see like a Templar healer you know a DK a magic A and A night blade I drop my old on the night blade and I give him everything I got cuz nine out of 10 times he's going to be spamming Ambush on me throughout the fight and I need to get rid of him it's more important to get rid of that than it is to get rid of the Healer it's because of the mechanic is broken it's so broken and it's terrible with Ambush because they're standing on top of you right in your face and they're just hammering it over and over and over right in your face and um this is awful it's one of the worst combat things in PvP for me I rely on mymobility so like you may not see it as much Lefty like I go into a group 1 v20 and I'm happy to do what I can because I do have Mobility that's my strong suit as a stams and I can't get away sometimes because of Ambush and Ambush specifically because Ambush another problem with it Beyond just the Gap closed portion is it just doesn't have the same line of sight checks every other gap closer has you will go around corners you'll go through boxes you'll go through trees it doesn't matter what it is it just sticks with you and they can keep spamming it it's so idiot friendly that it really needs to be looked at from the line of sight check portion just Ambush specifically to operate like other gap closers do but then the whole Gap closer issue is just terrible that's something that all Gap closers need to be looked at and addressed because it's like you said this this was a fix because Gap closers were missing their targets so they put in like a a Target box that you would travel to and it stuns the guy so you actually get get there I mean this is just it's a bad solution Y and it I I honestly have no faith it'll ever be fixed I I really don't because stuff like this impacts players like us and and I just don't see the interest to get it fixed but it really should be it's one of the worst things hands down for me in PvP uh some people just to clarify Fang Rush when he was saying that you can't Dodge roll uh Ambush he means in a situation where you are uh trying to get from point A to point B and someone crit charges you from behind you can you can see the crit charge coming so you can dodge it but Ambush it'll just it'll happen and if you don't know that they're there you have no chance to to dodge the uh the Gap closer uh but I mean again the reason why I think Ambush is annoying isn't because of the actual ability itself but because of the just because of the little root and and uh snare that applies to you if someone is behind you spamming Ambush you actually can't phys physically turn around and look at them you would have to actually cast an ability that forces you to turn around and look at them or you would have to dodge roll to turn around and look at them that's an issue that's an issue and that happens with all Gap closers but it only happens with Ambush in that situation because Ambush doesn't have a minimum uh distance and I don't think it should have a minimum distance I just think that they need to rework the way Gap closers work in general they shouldn't really root you or snare you just so that you know a player that's gap closing you can get to you uh because I mean if you pop retreating Maneuvers and you have snare and root immunity and then someone's spamming ambushing at you you you're basically snared you're basically rooted it's it's worse you can't even turn around you can't do anything it's more than just a like a stun or snare like you have CC immunity and it's mini stunning and silencing you yeah it actually breaks your character like what you're able to do it is so messed up and when you get two or three cuz I've run into groups of 20 and I have two or three of these night blades latch on to me you're you're just done it's like you're in a stasis like you just can't do anything there's nowhere to go there's no option not to mention um if if that night blade knows what he's doing and you get hit with like multiple abilities and then they Ambush and fear you you're not able to CC break it for like 3 seconds because you get the stun from Ambush and then you get the yeah the CC stacking and you just can't CC break it and it's it's broken yeah okay so uh that's the ability we're going to talk about when it comes to assassination skill line uh Shadow Skill line uh honestly like I think dark cloak right now is in a good state in comparison to previous uh patches um does anyone have anything to comment about dark cloak if not we're going to talk about vild strike yeah if they make dark cloak work any better than it already does I'm quitting the game cuz dark cloak is op I agree completely agree I think dark cloak does way too many different things um it it drops you from combat um you know it drops that line of sight that people have on you it purges all of the dots off of you which as a DK makes me pretty salty and it also gives you the stealth bonus when you um are coming out of stealth you do more damage it's just outrageous does so many different things it's like and you can get a stun with surprise attack yeah dot Hunter procs off of it it's like come on yep yeah way too many different things I think they need to take at least one of those things off I would be happy even if it was just uh take the purging off or something anything take the the stealth bonuses from it or something because the fact that it gives you the mobility and all those other things is just crazy to me hey cyer did you move synthesis in here yeah yeah I'm going to let him chime in at the end of the uh the night conversation he has something he wants to say um I feel like he has a lot more to offer than I do personally that's all cloak honestly like right now cloak is strong but it should be strong but it still has it counters I I think cloak is in a good position it shouldn't be buffed it shouldn't be nerfed um personally on all my classes that I play right now I mean the three classes that I play uh I never have an issue when I run into a Nightblade cloaking occasionally I'll get a Nightblade who cloaks away from me but if they're cloaking to stay in the fight it's never an issue like I'll have either detect pots AOE Mark Target Cal trops there's a lot of counters you know that you can you can work around it so I think what about from a Magicka point of view what kind of counters do Magicka builds have well okay for so okay on a sorcerer you don't you won't have any issues you can keep curse up on them on a Magicka night blade I mark them uh on a Maga DK magic DK you have a bit of an issue like you Talent run around AOE in the air yeah I mean that's one option but the thing is I don't even play Magic DK anymore so I I mean I haven't even had to worry about that magika Templar um magic Templar is a little bit different I haven't played it but I know going against a Templar uh toppling charge is unblockable uh I don't know if it's unclo but like that's just an issue that I have against Templars in general when I'm using a class that like when I'm using the night blade class if I'm going against a Templar and I dodge roll and they hit me with topling charge it's basically suicide at that point you you can't see see immediately because there just a bit of a stun and then you're on the floor while they're hitting you with jab I don't know what's wrong with top Ling charge I don't is it intended to be undodgeable it's the only Gap closer that's not dodgeable so I I don't know but that's that's for a future discussion um I I personally don't really have a big problem with cloak right now when a night bid runs away from you they're running away but if they say to fight I really don't have a problem with cloak um veiled strike surprise attack um lot of talk about surprise deck does anyone want to comment regarding this what is it uh I think surprise attack is fine uh surprise attack is fine it's just it's just night blads they have a lot of different things that just stack on top of each other and it makes it seem a little bit stronger than it is my issue with surprise attack is when you get ambushed into a fair you're going to take a surprise attack and a light attack before you can CC break that's my only issue but other than that I think surprise attack is perfectly fine just does so much damage and then with the champion points also not having any any kind of um reduced physical damage surprise attack is usually what's on my death recap it's usually like five night blades ambushes surprise attacks um I'd like to see some of the other single Target abilities from the other classes be anywhere comparable to the damage that surprise attack can do but I I don't know if I see that happening well all right so as a sorcerer I mean night blad it got surprise attack which is one ability that can be spammed and animation cancell as instacast DPS which is good but as a magic of sorcerer I run a setup that can hit you with four surprise attacks technically five if time correctly at the same time so I think it's just a class uniqueness to night blades they have surprise attack that's that's their main DPS they're considered a DPS class which is why they have that ability and as a sorcerer on the other hand you can do the same thing and it's honestly I I kind of sometimes I think sorcerer is worse because I sometimes I look at my skills I got endless Fury if that executes that's 9k I I have have magic adet right now my to tip is tool tip is 13k I have Crystal fragment that's a 13k unbuffed tool tip I have curse that's a 9k tool tip and then I have Dawn Breer which is another 10K tool tip like that's over 60k in damage if it crits that I can hit you with at the same time so I can't really complain too much about surprise attack doing 7K per surprise attack that's why I put magic Sor is number one on my list right there I don't see surprise attacks hitting for 7K I hit them I hitting for like 11k most of the yeah on players possible it's possible but you got to give up a lot of sustain to achieve those numbers like i' like I've I've gone against snip blades who achieve those numbers and they have like 600 700 800 they're ganking that's basically they're just gankers and gankers can hit hard with just about anything uh I mean you can get your your weapon damage to 6K and keep your your uh Stam regen at 2K without problem I mean it's it's way more possible on a BL you put that on players that are are really good at their classes and that can really handle their animations well which isn't a large majority of the people but there are people that do it on night blade they're devastating they just crush me before I have time to react and I know it was coming I knew exactly it was coming but it just doesn't matter sometimes it's pretty brutal yeah I know I know somebody some people they have those hard-hitting night blade bills that hit really hard like that um but you got to you like you said you got to sacrifice a lot of Stam regen Max stamina Health you got to sacrifice a lot to pull those numbers off and usually when I fight those kind of builds they can't really keep up with me they can't sustain they I'm saying right now they can't sustain they can't sustain if you can take their burst then you win the fight yeah exactly it's it's it's it's a it's a gank build that can achieve that and gank builds even with 2K region they can't say now of course in the hands of a great player uh you can create sustain without actually having sustain in your stats by animation cancelling by controlling when you dodge when you do this and that but that's okay so here's here's the thing the way I see it is surprise attack is fine but the problem is uh it's too easy as a stamina build to get you damage really really high it compar to Magic AB builds so when you compare surprise attack to concealed weapon surprise attack is very strong concealed weapon is very weak because it's hard there's no physical resistance in the champion tree there's another thing I've been looking into um and I did this on a pts lately because I felt the same way I felt like Magicka was harder to scale up as far as damage is concerned uh when you compare it to stamina and I went on the pts and I did some testing and I had my cassill weapon I had the same region same spell damage you know same Max actually had more max Magi so my Cil weapon tool tip was actually harder than my surprise attack now here here's the thing my surprise attack was doing less damage on the actual player when I did the testing However the fact that um as a stamina build you actually can light and heavy attack with your surprise attack that actually took the damage higher so that's another thing that they got to take into account because unless you run a Destro staff as a magic AB build you're not going to be able to keep up with surprise attack because what really put surprise attack at the top of the Lista incast DPS is the fact that it could be animation cancelled so if you toss in a light or a heavy medium attack you get that added damage over top of it and that's something I can't do on my magic uh nightly because it's running dual wi my light attack is hit for like 1K and then the light attack on the stamina build is hitting for like five to 6K and that's just a light attack I'm just putting on the screen uh juules said that uh you know you could achieve 6K weapon damage basically with still having over 2K region people are like people were like what is she talking about it's possible guys with the new sets moina proper gear you can get stuff like this now of course this is this is with mikina proc I don't know if it's with ravager is this with ravager I'm I'm not sure but I think entitled to disclose his build but I think it's Essence Steve agility all weapon damage Molag Kina um dual will probably um I'm not sure this this is by this is this is one of my very yeah this is one of my very good friends he's a very good night blade and he's an incredible Theory crafter so he came up with this build on his own but I think that's actually on a stamina Sor though right this is Stam night blade this is stamina night blade this is a vampire stamina night blade this is in Cloak by the way so it has 10% uh this this is basically with all the Buffs possible this is only while you're invisible yeah I I can see him getting 5K cuz I hit 5K on TS with my stamps and I wasn't even in stealth but I can see that happening but those numbers aren't like that's not what he's going to hit you with because he has he has to proc Molina to get that high well yeah he he has to proc Molina that's one aspect you also have to be invisible 2400 regen you could passive like did he just cap a resource or something to get that Regen to I think he might have C A resources I I mean this is this is fully buffed if it could I don't think it can go higher than so I assume I I'm assuming that this is with the uh PVP passive that gives you near keep near keep the PVP passive um right but these things of course it's not going to always be this High the point was that it is able to be achieved to be this High okay well I mean that go look that topic though doesn't apply to surprise attack even it's just surprise attack is one of the strongest single Target I mean if you got that those stats you hit somebody with a rans sack it's going to do like onek less than a surprise attack yeah but the thing is the thing is is surprise attack overpowered or is it just very easy to stack damage and and and stamina surprise attack is 100% fine I think the real issue Bo like like for instance me and Cypher almost got One VX in a 2v2 tournament by a night Blade with a lot of champion points and the reason why we almost got One VX is because we could not Dodge his Ambush surprise attack he would Ambush into us before we can Dodge or do anything we were already taking the damage from a surprise attack and that is that's the bigger issue I and we just talked about Ambush and fears and whatnot I think it's a lot of CC issues and a surprise attack though it can be it can be animation cancelled for one and it's instacast that's an issue because I don't have anything on my magic of sort that can I I cannot land it unless I hit you with a rune cage and then I throw a crystal fragment but that's about it that's about it surpr attack is like ambush in you get a 20% weapon damage bonus or damage increase and then you launch the surprise attack right afterwards surprise attack in itself is fine but the Ambush and the CCS from night blades are ridiculous and you cannot Dodge roll it you can't get out of it there's a late break on fear too like I had the same issue I knew what was coming in that in that tournament King I knew they were going to come at me I even put up that stupid ass Mage Light and like I I did everything I could to brace the impact from that guy and um again like I said has has the burst that he can just come jump in um unload and just be out and still have good sustain too cuz that guy had really good sustain as well like he wasn't just he wasn't sacrificing all sustain for damage wasn't even close I'm going to I want to comment regarding regarding that in particular um now regarding the damage regarding the stat Ing and all that stuff uh when it comes to surprise attack with Ambush uh I don't know if you guys know this but if you cloak and then Ambush into someone you actually won't be removed from cloak you will remain in Cloak after you Ambush someone so people typically don't know this because when someone ambushes into someone out of cloak they usually follow follow it up with something right so you cloak up you Ambush you surprise attack or you Ambush you you Soul Harvest Right but try this if you're on your if you're on your night blade right now or if you're going to get on your night blade later cloak up Ambush into someone and and you'll realize that you've not been pulled out of cloak you can actually you can actually cloak again and the person will have taken an ambush hit and they won't even see you so what happens in that situation is this synergizes with surprise attack surprise attack stuns your opponent uh if you hit them out of cloak so if the night blade is uh added distance from you they cloak up they Ambush it towards you you're still going to be in Cloak and then when they hit you with a surprise attack they stun you because they hit you out of cloaks now they they landed two hits while in Cloak um while while stealth and um I I wish I had my game open right now to to show you guys I might actually get that running while you guys talk about it but um yeah you can Ambush into someone not be pulled out of stealth and then surprise attack them to stun them so you get those two hits while in stealth you get the full uh the full damage while in stealth yeah you can actually cloak Ambush Light attack surprise attack get the stun and then light attack surprise attack before the person can c c break it's like five abilities hitting you before you can even stop it from hitting you okay so to be fair I think that um the one thing that Stam night blades don't have is the reliable heals other than like Viger and rally so they are squishier so I don't really have a problem with the amount of damage that they can pull mean STK STK also doesn't have reliable healing but that's the thing though Vigor and Raleigh are more than reliable at this point like Vigor and Raleigh are are basically and if you have enough Champion points in a blast yeah I mean they they heal for a good amount I just think that Stam night blades are kind of sish all right so listen you got to look at it like this you got to look at it like this and this is my best way to explain it cuz I play Sorcerer And A lot of people give me you know crap for playing a class that Stacks damage Shields and they say hey you got a 15K damage Shield stack I'm like okay you're right to a certain extent right but however people with like 3K weapon damage their Vigor is about 12K just for the Vigor that's a 12K heal over 5 seconds so that basically translates into a 12K damage shill because you're going to mitigate 12K damage from the healing then on top of that you get healing ticks from Raleigh and then you can activate a burst heal from Raleigh which I've seen on if you have at least 3K weapon damage it'll heal you for 9 to 15K um healing so those heals are more than viable like they're actually over the top kind of broken at this point because of how much you get healed at this point because it it scals with weapon damage and stamina a build like the build we just seen on the screen with 6K weapon damage that means his heal is going to be double with somebody with you know regular stats I mean Viger and rally I mean like you said they're just Vigor and rally are viable healing options it's not like a secondary healing option they're just completely viable um to the point where they compete with even Magicka heals like they Vigor and rally they're both better than Green Dragon blood in my opinion um of course the Templar heo is still going to be the strongest but as far as heals go uh Vigor and rally like they will compete they will be able to pop someone from you know low Health to full health relatively quickly you have healing Ward you have the you have the Resto skill line and I I I'm challenging you guys on this I think Vigor and rally versus healing Ward I mean by the time the healing Ward you know actually goes off the 6 seconds the Vigor and rally will pretty much get you back up to full like it's it's about the same in my opinion Magic versus stamina comparison it's about the same um I'm actually opening up the game right now just so I can show you guys uh this regarding the Ambush but as far as the class goes we talked about concealed we also talked about weapon damage versus Maga stacking um there's fear fear is a very strong CC probably the strongest CC in the game um the only issues that arise from fear is the delay when it comes to actually CC breaking you guys want to talk about that you guys want to talk about fear or should we move into the siphoning skill line I think it's gotten better with this patch I don't it's gotten better like I haven't found myself getting we're we're not getting fared into the ground anymore so yeah yeah POS but I do still see uh like delays on fear breaks from time to time yeah uh it's not just fear that's any CC any CC yeah a lot of CC's will sometimes occasionally have somewhat of delay I think fear does it more though because Ambush a lot of people Ambush into their Affairs and that's a when you stack CC's it kind of bugs it out siphoning skill line uh the main one that sticks out over here is Agony uh Richard do you want to talk about Agony first Agony is it all depends it's just like for a magic night blade it's it's kind of good it's just I don't think it should give you the CC immunity after you know hitting somebody I think it should just be a straight up Dot and they should remove the disorient cuz night plays don't need a disorient um to be honest they have fear so they really don't need to disorient okay uh does anyone want to comment on Agony I know not everyone in here plays Nightblade uh fush you don't play night blade Lefty doesn't play Jules do you play night blade I have a night blade but I don't okay play that much all right um honestly besides that there's not that much to talk about night blades do definitely need to be toned down in certain aspects but then also we have things outside of the actual class that make it even stronger the ability to stack weapon damage and Stam region over other things uh you know the resistances of medium armor versus light armor yeah the go Point um of champing Point reduction on physical damage exactly I'd really like to hear what was zthis has to say I don't know what your plan for the agenda is Cypher but I'm just yeah I actually bring zthis in here so we can at the end of the night discussion I want him to go through and just give his before we move on from night blade yeah we're not going to talk about another class we're going to finish with Genesis regarding night blade class and then we're going to talk about the arena and then we'll conclude the uh with the Q&A synthesis I'm going to let you take the floor right now all right um I'm synthesis I've been playing this game since uh pretty much launch been playing a MAG of night blade ever since um I just I like the class I like the way it played I like that it took skill when the game first came out there were a lot of ganking night blades but I didn't like that play style so I played a matcha night blade and um cloak cloak was never as op as it is now you can Perma cloak now and and they're they're yeah sure they're putting in plants to fix that but that's that's an issue back in the old days a lot of night blades weren't running cloak because it broke to literally everything light attacks heavy attacks anything if if a if a DK sneezed on you you were out of cloak and you were dead all right so as time went on they started fixing cloak and now it's it it got really good and then in 1.4 1.5 you had a really you had a really solid night blade where if I was standing in front of someone cloaking they would they they could break me out of cloak right if someone was light attacking or something trying using a skill it would break cloak but now in this patch 1.6 1.7 I can be standing in front of you kissing you on your cheek and cloaking that's a problem right I admit that's a problem if anybody seen any of my videos anybody knows how I do I can cloak at any time I want and that's that's just an issue with cloak all right so I see why people are irritated by that the problem though is not that a cloak is actually working now the problem is that people can perac cloak all right and how do you fix that is you bring back you bring back soft caps all right and that'll fix not just not just night blades cloaking all the time it'll fix night blades running 6K weapon damage and two shot on people it'll fix people running all kinds of crazy builds you bring back these soft caps and you bring back the old stats and the old stats anybody that wasn't playing 1 you guys missed out on like literally the best PVP the game this game has ever had like it was amazing all you had like 100 like 30k Health imagine okay with most people most St builds are running 2.5k Stam regen with 3K weapon damage unbuffed right back in the old days it was it imagine it being 1.3k uh Stam regen and 1 uh 1.3k uh weapon damage that's what it was back then and people were like dang how are how are stand build supposed to hit hard now and it's like well that's what Stan builds used to be he used to be a skilled player like I don't know if anybody knows about velcon but that guy is literally probably the best Stam night blade in in this game and people can can try and you know say that it's not true but he was running Stam night blade when Stam night blade wasn't even a thing all right and he wrecked people with it he wrecked he took on zergs he was absolutely insane and this was with soft caps so the game the game needs to go back to soft caps that won't just fix night blades though that will fix that will fix Sorcerers a sorcerer should not be able to run should not be able to run 40K Max Magicka and get you know 14 or or run you know 14k uh Harden Wards in a patch where your Harden Ward is supposed to be cut in half so we're talking about a 24 a 28k Harden ward in PVE you're telling me that's not broken that's broken there there there's so many things that ex zust needs to re go back and look hey what was what do we have with 1.5 cuz that's that's where that's where they need to go back to is Bring Back soft caps lead the champion system I think the Champion system is a good idea um maybe some balancing things here and there but I think overall it's a good idea so just bring back those soft casts and you'll see a lot of issues fixed with night blades with Sorcerers with Templars and dks and I also think this one more thing about altig gen because with dks I don't think that we should go back to Dynamic Alti the way it was uh I just came up with this you know earlier was instead of having TIG gen only be generated by light attacks have it be generated by damage in general so if if a DK puts say eruption cinderstorm 20 feet away from them right in front of someone it will give them their altigen because right now the issue is a lot of people they're just they're only getting alt gen from light attacks and we need to bring back hey if I'm dpsing someone doesn't matter if I'm using a light attack a skill whatever I should be getting that Al gen that's not the issue with Dynamic alt though the reason why people want Dynamic alt back is because hey if I'm fighting 50 people and I hit 50 people I should gain more ultimate than them hitting me as one single person that's the reason why people ask for dynamic Alti to return to the game not because people can't regain ultimate or gain ultimate because of light attacks I don't have any issue gaining ultimate I have an issue gaining ultimate at the same speed as a zerg and that's the only reason why people complain about uh Dynamic Alti on soft caps soft caps it sounds good in theory but you got to understand something the only reason why some of these classes are even doing good is because they remove soft caps sorcerer was complete you know crap back in 1.5 why because of soft caps Sorcerers for one they don't have any instacast DPS so in a in a in a world a game world where sustain and uh constant DPS matters you eliminate certain classes like the sorcerer class it's eliminated because they're the only class that cannot put out sustained DPS all their DPS is burst that's why Sorcerers are doing so good now because they actually have the damage to pull off a burst but if you bring soft caps back you eliminate the sorcerer class yet again Richard Richard how about this how about this right okay back in back you said the issue with uh Sorcerers I've said this before was harness Maga was the only the only the only skill that was being absorbed main DPS skill was a sorcerer skill which is Crystal fragment night blades if I hit you and you use harness magika it went through right that was just an issue but now say forget all of that whatever right this patch they bring back soft caps Sorcerers still have access to inevitable inevitable detonation okay so that's that one extra that's that one extra bit of burst because it still boils down to this though if I'm fighting a class say for instance I'm fighting a magic of DK this magic of DK is on me the entire fight talins whip whip flame unstable flame fiery breath whip whip whip whip and I'm sitting there Crystal frag and then I'm 5 Seconds curse 4 seconds Crystal frag seconds inevitable debt you bash it you can't keep up in a sustained fight without sustained abilities the only reason why the sorcerer class is so good now is because they're able to do what they were meant to do in the first place which was burst DPS If you eliminate burst DPS then you eliminate the sorcerer class and then you also give people an advantage we're just talking about how good surprise attack is so now if you have sustained fights where sustained DPS matters and you got abilities like surprise attack then you just hand the game over to night blades like I'm completely against soft caps in every way shape or form and I understand why you want soft caps to come back but we got to understand like every time they do something they make a change they don't just remove one thing they removed soft caps they' changed way armor scals they removed abilities they added major minor Buffs they added the champion system so there's too many different things that go back to the old ESO guys I'm gonna I'm G to step in really quickly because now we're talking about soft caps and I think we should save that for another discussion because we're running out of time uh thank you sis for giving your opinion regarding the night blade definitely well spoken and I agree with most most of what you said as far as soft caps go I really have no opinion regarding soft caps I know the game was better when we had soft caps but will soft caps work in this meta or not like I'm just a little confused regarding that like I'm not 100% sure I just want to show something on screen really quickly I'm on my night blade right now um and regarding the Ambush cloak thing that I was talking about earlier in PVE it's actually 50/50 uh every other ambush um from my cloak will keep me in stealth after the ambush in PvP I find it a little more consistent uh to where after my ambush I stay in Cloak so I'm going to show you guys I'm going to get into cloak Ambush it's going to pull me out of cloak get into cloak again Ambush one sec you see right there I ambushed into him and I stayed in Cloak in PVE it's not as consistent but uh in PvP it's a little more consistent so I'm actually only cloaking one time after the Ambush I mean right before the Ambush and I'll stay in stealth which what allows what that allows me to do is when I go into Ambush them and I stay in stealth I can actually uh stun them with a surprise attack which is why night blades can get two hits off in stealth a lot of the times in PvP because they stay in Cloak even after the Ambush is there I'm going to show you on this Mammoth really quickly the only reason it's pulling you out of stealth Cipher is because it's adding a different effect it adds a stun onto PVE mobs and adds an well that's the thing that's the thing it it adds a stun onto PVE mobs um so in PvP it's actually 100% if you if you do it properly it's going to be 100% chance that you will stay in stealth after uh uh ambushing them the only reason it's working on every other Ambush for PVE purposes is because it stuns it stuns uh PVE mobs for two seconds so whenever it does the stun it pulls you out of cloak but if that stun it can't be applied because they're immune already uh you'll actually stay in Cloak so in a PVP environment it's actually 100% of the time if you am if you cloak up and then Ambush into an enemy player uh you will stay in Cloak you won't be pulled out so you'll be in their face while still cloaked and you can hit them with surprise attack so that's that's a bit of an issue with the stamina night blade this also applies to Magic night blade but uh Stam just generally hit harder which is why it's an issue they can get two hits off from stealth and you know that's why they they get some crazy DPS uh which is two camo Hunter procs as well and oh yeah Hunter two camo Hunter procs actually you can potentially get three if you toss light attack light attack yeah yeah just cuz you can you can light attack and surprise attack at the same time you won't be like if your animation cancel you won't be you won't get pulled out of cell so that's three camo Hunter procs potentially um if I was in PvP I would show this it would be a lot more easier to see I could actually just keep ambushing to someone while invisible and on their screen they'll just be getting hit by ambushes and they won't even they won't even they won't ever see the night blade if the if the night keeps recasting it they won't ever see the night blade there's no cool down on the stun that comes after Ambush that or whatever it is the uh the only immobilize no there's no cool down to immobilize against players there's no cool down the St applies only to PVE players this the stun only applies to PVE mobs so in in a PVP environment there's no stun so it doesn't actually pull you out so you can actually just stay in Cloak and just keep ambushing um and that's that's another reason why it takes long to CC break sometimes when you get hit with the surprise attack is because it's an ambush and then you're immobilized from the Ambush and then you're stuned surprise attack so that's it's a lot of CC stacking with night blade that gives you that delay on break and they do so much damage then you know your target is so disoriented that it's like it's usually just GG all right guys uh we're running low on time we actually just passed the 2hour Mark just right now so let's talk about the mstom arena I know this is a PVP focused podcast but I'm going to be honest with you guys I've actually spent more time in the arena than actually pvping I know that's true for Richard as well and I think fush um Jules you still haven't ran the arena Lefty you still haven't ran the Arena but let's talk about from what we've seen play cuz you guys play DK well that's not my reason I mean people have their reasons but I know for a fact that there's what five or six0 dks that completed the arena so far on the na server compared to the 40 sorcs 30 night blades and 20 Templars I don't know that's that's definitely but indicative of what's going on even in just in PVE even in PVE for solo play um let's talk about the actual Arena itself though forget class balance forget everything else let's talk about the arena cuz this arena is probably my first you know footing into actual PVE content that I enjoyed I'm going to say it I actually enjoy the arena but I can't really pull my I mean I can put my fingers on two things regarding or three things why I enjoy the arena first of all PVP right now during prime time is just not enjoyable the Ping is high there's a lot of zergs I can't play effectively as a solo player because of the FPS drops the Ping so when I go to the arena I don't have to really worry about that that's one thing PVP being in a low not so good area is making the arena for me a little more appealing on top of that I'm finally gearing up properly honestly I'm I'm actually getting some decent gear out of the Arena I got two daggers so far and um two melstrom daggers I got a melor Resto I almost have a full jewelry set of the huntet and then oppression set um is it oppression or is it suppression what was the set the suppression suppression set so like I'm getting geared very quickly I've ran the arena three or four times only and I've received so much gear and XP from it and it just it makes me realize just how much reward how much reward you get for playing PVE content compared to PVP content uh and we go back to the to the idea that you know they didn't give us V16 Mor Tong or Shadow Walker or or Hawkeye because because they want us to actually get the gear from the new DLC content I mean I get that that's a business decision but I mean it there's such a huge difference when it comes to actually doing PVE content like you get rewarded so much you get so much xp you get a lot of gear I mean I'm having fun don't get me wrong I'm actually having fun doing the arena surprising because it's PVE but just it opens my eyes to the the difference when it comes to rewarding players to do PVE PVE and PVP uh hey cyer real quick I'm I got to restart my computer dude lot trouble so I'll be I'll be right back guys all right that might mess up their cameras but that's fine I'll rework it I'll I'll re sorry I'll rework it um go ahead Fang rush I know you spent a lot of time in the pts as well uh with the arena sure um yeah I spent a good amount of time on the pts not not too much just getting a handle on the stages I've completed it probably about 20 times now um I played as a Stam and it's much different it's probably one of the big topics to talk about it's all over the forums too there's class and balances but then there's also Stam verse Magicka um I know we'll get to that so I'm not sure if you're just looking for the overall thing we're just looking for just the actual Arena itself not the class difference not the uh you know stand versus magic just the actual Arena the gameplay you're getting out of the Arena the rewards and all that stuff um there well okay there is not a single set in there I'm interested in even remotely um that's kind of upsetting the only set in orsinium is brart and it doesn't even drop in there it's one of the best sets clearly um for Stam and it doesn't even drop in there so I'm pretty disappointed in that user disconnected from your CH Channel that's a pretty notable thing to say because the other Stam sets are so so specific in their use it's like oh maybe I'd want that set if I ran this kind of guy on this class doing this in this scenario it's it's so specific um most of the stuff in Imperial City would either be better or just crafted sets so nothing in there is really an upgrade other than the malstrom weapons which I'm trying to get which you only get from the last stages but overall the arena the challenge is Fun the buggy mechanics are not um I know everybody struggles with some issues to some degree um so yeah I get punished more I think than that than than some others on some of those issues uh but yeah I'm I'm right there with you cypher I'm in there because up until this patch I I PvP in the sewers because I can't handle sidel's lag like when the performance drops and I start dying you know in like 1 to 10 1 to 15 plus odds while my FPS tanks like it's so discouraging man like I can't it's really hard to log in to do that and a lot of people that aren't in those big groups are dipping so this is a good alternative for now it's not a permanent one um you know the arena is kind of cool I yeah do you know where brart drops some uh quests or something or or the world bosses I don't even know the world boss dailies okay yeah I I I mean I'm probably not even going to run it I'm not sure we'll see bosses are actually pretty fun they're a lot more challenging than the ones in the other uh like uh I can't even think of the word so you have do you have to do the daes to get heart you have to you have to do the daes to get the Bri heart GE I don't know if that's the only place they drop I just know that I've gotten two pieces from the world BS dailies just within the last two days so they drop pretty pretty frequently too A lot of them are dropping in like v15 which is weird but as a V6 player you get v15 why yeah I don't know well how do I think there's a way to get the V16 you have to do something specific not that was told to me I don't know it it's weird because sometimes it'll drop in V16 and sometimes it'll drop in V16 just I also don't know what the rewards are for melstrom either you know they talked about you know the rewards the same way as Dragon Star or anything else I don't know if anybody knows what the rewards are going to be if it's just like they send me a girdle of Glory or something in the mail then it's going to suck it's probably what it's going to be wait they send rewards for that I think so for the leaderboards if they don't I don't even know what the point of them is other than when does the leader boards reset well they're resetting on Monday right because of the uh stamina book yeah they're wiping away everyone's progress for the bug which I'm also not happy about what are you going to do are they going to give us rewards for it no cuz some people went no no I think they are though are they not are they not going to just send out reward assume not I saw a post by Jeanie said there's a bug we're aware of it so we're going to reset the leaderboards so my assumption would be everyone gets punished cuz some people went in there rather than going in there and finding people using it and saying hey we're going to make an example of them they're just going to wipe everybody's scores which is unfortunate cuz a lot of people some people in there can't complete compl it very easily some people don't get a lot of time to go in there and do it some people spend a lot of time just to complete it and get some chump score just to get on the leaderboard like look at the dks four of them have under a thousand those guys probably were chugging glyphs every round and just spent like 10 hours in there trying to get through and they did I'm having flashbacks man I'm having flashbacks my first score was like 375 no I know but imagine you don't have much time and you're like I did it though and I don't want to go do it again until another time for reward but those guys are going to be like hey tough you know there's there's three or four guys that that maybe use the exploit so uh you know just take one for the team here I'm I'm trying to keep this PC so it took me it took me nine hours to complete it the first run this is like my first attempt ever and then after that the Second Run 2 hours 44 minutes then 230 and then today I ran it and I finished it in Just 2 hours flat so definitely the more you run it the easier it gets I saw someone posting on the Forum saying like uh zenax like Pro Player Cipher is struggling with you know the arena how do you expect us to finish and I'm like I don't do PVE man and it's just like it's actually I like the challenge I don't want the arena to get nerfed I want it to stay the same way of course there are some mechanics that are a little buggy in the arena that cost you some deaths I've seen the frustration in Richard I've seen the frustration in Fang Rush my own frustration from the Arena from small things that cause you to die but I think just overall as far as challenge goes I like the challenge the the arena brings as far as gear it's very specific like I I I get where you're coming from frush none none of the gear in the arena really interests you there's actually a lot of gear that interest me but it's just we play different styles we play different builds so obviously like if something's catered specific like for example you're talking about the uh the pet Set uh the the hunt set that gives you you know stamina and health back if your pet attacks someone you recently attacked like that's specifically for St night blade I'm I'm really excited about that set but I can see why like if anyone else if I was on any other class and I got that set piece I'd be like why like this doesn't apply to me in any way like how am I supposed to get a pet on a DK and and a stamina sorcerer running pets is is you know free AP as far as as far as I know so the gear could definitely be more diverse I want to see Bri har thrown into the the arena to be honest with you I I know why it isn't is there any general set take um take the glorified set and put that at World bosses and give us brart if anything the huntet needs to be taken out and putting put into World bosses because it's more specific so people who really want that set will go do specific things but the arena should have most of the general sets in it if you look if you look at Imperial City sets they were very broad you know like if you're a heavy it's it it was geared to whatever it was so if you're a medium here some general medium medium five piece bonus whether it was some amp and damage you know a heavy set that did um some kind of tanking ability like add a shield but these are really really specific sets and I don't mind them being in the game but that's really that's all all that's in there and I'm I'm just saying like a majority of people that go through here aren't interested in the sets they're interested in the master weapons I find that weird I don't really care it it doesn't make or break me but it just seems very strange that they would do that and Bri heart's one of those ones that it says here's a stamina set it doesn't have any kind of specific thing like a pet or an ice an effect if you use an ice skill or something it is a general stamina set and there's just not that in there again I'm there for the master weapons I'm really there to have fun do the challenge before it gets nerfed because I know it will get nerfed I'm I'm positive on that I mean they nerfed Imperial City coming into this patch if that's any sign of how things are going to be that's what's going to happen like as much as I said white gold Tower was very fun when it came out don't Nerf it a week later it was nerfed and it didn't really need to be it was easier as a group than this is as a solo player so in a within the next month I I 100% guarantee you and we bet any amount of money you're going to see a zenmax guy post on the forums we've reviewed the data and and you know it the data tells us we need to Nerf it basically and what they really need to do is is fix some of the mechanics absolutely absolutely that's not what's stopping a lot of people a lot of people are just struggling with it and it does take it's it's a mechanics Arena it really is like it it really tests you and it pushes you but um they're they're going to Nerf it period I think they probably will too as far as um Brier heart goes I mean I think it's actually more accessible being dropped from the world boss dailies than it is from the arena so I wouldn't have a problem with it staying there and then maybe just also being dropped in the arena or something like that well I got one major issue and I'm glad Rich Lambert is in here um we do this dungeon this dungeon takes like even a good player I did it in an hour and a half but that was on my fourth run a lot of people are taking like my first run was like nine hours you know second run was like four now I'm getting it I'll probably be doing it in in around an hour now easy but I'm doing it to get that last chest and when I get the last chest and it's a hat of winterborn in it like that is too much time out of somebody can you get what for last chest I think the last chest is guaranteed jewelry piece or or M storm weapon I don't I don't know I don't know if I got a had a Warner boor I'm just saying like I got I got something I didn't want basically and like I got a wrestle staff sharpen I don't even know why that is in a game that Russell staff is not going to be utilized like I think there needs to be some type of mechanic like I don't know call them ingame crowns or something let me do the dungeon a certain amount of times let me Farm up this currency and then let me go buy the piece of gear that I want from the chest because waiting for an RNG drop is it's absolutely ridiculous nobody wants to do this dungeon that many times I it was fun the first couple times but now it's getting repetitive and I'm running through it but now I feel like I'm I'm working every time I go inside of that dungeon it's like okay I got to do my dungeon Run for the day like I'm a cop making this rounds I don't want to do I don't want to play the game like that I want to enjoy my time playing it and I don't want to have to farm this dungeon out for two months just to get one item from it I think be nice yeah token system or something or allow the weapons to be tradable or sellable something to where I do not have to spend time to get item that you're not going to use yeah yeah like it's too much time to get a wrestle staff with sharpen on it like I was so pissed off that I got that the other day almost quitty as H I got a I got a wrestle with sharpen on my first run uh regarding uh weapons the weapons being tradable um okay so I'm I'm always like advocating that PVP gear is tradable so PVE players don't have to PVP to attain the gear but PVE gear is always bound and for the first time like when I started getting this gear during the doing the arena I was like you know what man I'm I'm actually glad that you know that people can't just buy this because I'm like working to get this but then I stopped myself for a second and then I realized like that's just like I'm I'm being very very hypocritical there um one thing like that that I realized is I honestly would like to be able to sell the gear I get in the arena the fact that the arena is hard uh makes it to where the gear isn't coming in as quickly so you can actually like the people who Master the arena and finish it efficiently uh and get a lot of gear sets that don't that they don't really need can at least sell that gear set and get some gold in return so I I wouldn't be against them keeping the difficulty and you know maybe having the the gear sets tradeable I don't know why PVE gear is never tradeable but PV PVP gear can always be I mean I know why but I'm saying P okay not all PVE gear buter gear and stuff yeah I mean expected it to be uh to be tradeable and the fact that it's not it's really weird and it's clogging my inventory like I have over 100 items from here already I I dumped them on the alts like it's crazy how many items I've got I've done like again I've done over 20 runs now and um I'm just trying to get you know like a a sharpen two-hander right now I I almost really don't care what it is just as long as I can get one I've got I think six Master weapons so far like four of them have defending I've been lucky with my drops I got two melstrom daggers one sharpened one precise so I'm you got another dagger I got another dagger today sharpened God I'm done but dude I tested a dagger I I I don't know I was testing on PVE mob so I really couldn't see what was going on like I couldn't tell if I was getting a damage boost or not I know there's animation damage right yeah but things like biting Jabs count I haven't tried with a MAG build well the thing is if you can't use it with a Magicka build because you have to cast flurry which is going to cost you like 3K stamina as a MAG build okay but doesn't it like amp it by like a ridiculous amount yeah flurry and then you put Deb on somebody would that not be a huge debt that's thing I don't thinking Target dot yeah I know yeah Cur Cur it it will probably make you curse hit for 20K on the soul is soul assult is same Target though yeah uh g TV actually said that he received five pieces of V16 Bri heart no jewelry pieces from uh from CLE chest from Ser chest wow really so they just made it really easy to get which is surprising it's is that tradable it's a good set it's not tradable is it tradeable it has to be if it's coming in a chest right is heart tradable yeah it should be okay that's really good news honestly I did not know that so yeah it'll be available out there I guess which again like it's such a strong set like I'd rather see stuff like that like here are some really good sets they're reserved to like floors 7 through nine you know all these ones can drop one through three through sixel you know something like that would have been nice but instead it's just like a lot like I go through the mom and I don't even look at what I pick up I'm just like yep okay and I go to the next floor because it's all relevant and for a majority of people that go through there it probably is there's probably a very small percent of people that actually care about what they're picking up like maybe I want that set and they and they eye it up here and there but that that's about it most people don't care though I'd really like to see the um the scathing Mage set which drops from ICP which is like sort of the Maga equivalent of Brier heart it's like a 10% chance on crits to proc like spell damage tradeable um I'd like to see that drop from rothgar or from new content cidal chess any of that because it it's pretty much the equivalent except for I think it doesn't heal you something like that I I want I want majority of this of the sets to be tradeable like I just I feel like having an open economy on on the sets will will it will reward people who do the content either ways like you do the content you get something you don't want someone else wants that you can at least sell it but when you start when you start piling your bank just like defending Resto staffs defending daggers and and and you just don't know what to do with them um I you're kind of stuck especially if you play one particular play style like fers you played the dam sorc so a lot of the gear just does not apply to you it's it's worthless you're deconstructing most of them probably um but if you could sell them to people who wanted the gear you would you would at least feel like you're you're getting something out of running the the arena from a business point of view though it's a downloadable content so in order to get that gear you have to pay to get the downloadable content which is probably how they see it you I mean rather than that makes sense people who have paid for the content trading for in-game gold and stuff to get it but then we have the PVP and PVE in Balance like Imperial City was downloadable content and you don't even have to download it to get shieldbreaker Phoenix or any of the any of the telar stone you know I mean I just feel like I feel like they they always lean towards uh forcing players to do the PVE content to get specific year but when it comes to PVP content let's make all the PVP ke tradeable so that people can you know with tokens which is basically what AP is you can just buy it exactly what you want yeah like all the unded sets and all the the good drops are in PVE and they really haven't updated those sets and there's no signs of adding anything uh where did Lefty go he' like disappear as soon as the P came up well Lefty Lefty didn't run the but he said that he has some issues with his PC he's uh he's working on but like okay my overall just let's wrap up before we do the Q&A because we are taking a lot of time uh I like the arena I like the challenge I have been doing it with a with a magic aorc which is arguably the easiest uh class to run it with because there's a lot of sorcerers on leaderboards not as many dks uh half the temp bars and a third I mean the three4 of them are night blades so uh so um like honestly the Arina it's fun I'm getting gear out of it that I actually use I would feel frustrated if I was getting gear that I wasn't using but I've been getting some really really good drops and um I'm I'm I'm actually enjoying the PVE content sometimes over the PVE content and the reason I'm not enjoying the PVP content is because there's just a lot of issues that haven't been addressed and it's mainly it's mainly the lag and the Zerg gameplay uh that forces me away like I'll I'll be streaming I'll be doing PVP as soon as the FPS drops the Ping starts skyrocketing and the zergs are out and about I'll pack my stff and I'll go to the arena so at least I have an option when when that happens uh let me just fix the cameras really quickly yeah welcome back Lefty it's all good man I'm having a lot of network issues Let's uh let's do the Q&A because we're we're we're about to approach two hours and a half we don't really want to take that long get out my box Lefty get your own box let's do Q&A in the chat right now if you're in the chat ask questions we'll pick up your questions and answer them everyone gets about three questions each so you guys are good to go you guys can start uh you guys can start answering questions from the chat make sure you uh you tag whoever you want to read your question or you can tag all of us and um feel free Fang Rush reaching around and stuff what are you guys doing trying to find myself man I see my green screen and King sitting on top of it me and Lefty are one right now you got to separate us wait why why do we have to be wait what you breaking up with me thank you get my own space okay just to clarify right heart's apparently bound even though it comes out of chest too by heart is bound that's what I'm someone linked me here and he telling me it's bound pick up so all right since we don't have a lot of questions I'm going just go with this first one wait what go ahead just I'm trying to I'm trying to work it I'm in both boxes bosss okay so all right so first question are we GNA get this drink on yes we are just just after the Q&A we're getting the drink on don't worry man man I I definitely sound like I got a question for you guys do you guys think I'm an alcoholic because I really I'm not it's just we have to Stage an intervention Lefty this whole podcast was about that any questions guys ask them in the chat make sure you tag us so we can see your questions uh we're going to wrap this up pretty shortly if you want to contribute towards the uh podcast type in exclamation mark tip in the chat uh and you can donate however much you want to and uh I want to thank the people who have been helping us uh with the podcast with the donations and with the the new graphics as you can see looks a lot more professional so thank you guys for all the support so I'll take my second one now um since I was gone uh maddio is asking what my thoughts are on the new Arena I just don't care I just don't care like um I don't care for PVE I know okay it's fine if it's fun PVE but to me PVE is like you do it once and it's fun it's like oh that was pretty cool and then I'm done with it so it's like I'm not even going to do it once like I have no desire to do it once I don't want anything from it um I've already made my build my build doesn't require anything from that from that um dungeon so like usually whenever I do a dungeon in this game it's just so I can get gear so that I can go PVP so if I don't have to do that dungeon for my build for PVP I'm not going to do it um the only reason I would do it is if like I don't know so the only the only reason I would do the the the dungeon is just to experience it that first time and see how fun it really is um but after that like it's it's a oneandone thing for me when it comes to PVE so that those are my thoughts um somebody asked if we reached out to anybody from zos to join a podcast and this we haven't yet yeah we have not reached out to anybody in particular however we do want to even if it's not on a podcast even if it's behind the scenes we do want to get together with the developers to try to point the game in a in the right direction give them some Insider info because cuz we're the Insiders we play the game more than they do we know a lot more than they do about the game and we got to work together if we want to get the game fixed and going in the right direction um I'll answer a question from dieo Joo I always I never can pronounce your name right I'm sorry j um Joo um as far as the the cloak counter on your bar um Mage Light revealing flare um I have considered putting it on my bar occasionally um the issue that I find is that on a Maga DK you just need like so many different skills to be able to do so many different things to try to tank to try to like have some Shields but some heals I mean you there's just a lot of a lot of skills that you absolutely have to run and uh it's it's tough to justify putting something like that on on my bar just for night blades I mean it is I don't like Mage Light but I think the other one potentially but I just don't from Blacklist thank you so much man I appreciate it um I got a question right here um do you think that Z should debuff Shields because the damage reduction won't allow you to burst through them um I don't think they should touch Shields anymore um I think what they should do is go back I think it was in 1.4 or 1.3 uh that update Shields you were not allowed to reapply a shield until the duration ran out or the shield was completely off of your health bar so for instance if you were at 10% Max health and you spammed heing Ward you would only gain another damage Shield after the healing Ward was completely off of you so somebody would have to damage through that healing Ward then you would have to time it to get to keep the damage shields on so I think that's where they should go with damage Shields that'll fix a lot of the issues cuz the issue is if I get you low health or if you get me low health I can spam multiple damage Shields and keep refreshing them without any penalty I just want to agree with King like 10,000% I don't know when that happened King I remember hearing that on your stream I couldn't believe it because I haven't played magic of Sor since that change happened and here I had thought like magic of ss in general just got better it's not the case they're all still uh they're all still just on easy street right now if they ever come back and rework Shields and kind of like put them in a in a more balanced State um there's a lot of magic ofs out there will get buried it's hands down the easiest class is just walk into with a skill setup and just let it rip yep yeah another thing is like that play style actually stuck with me having to master the proper Shi stack like I like people will watch me and a lot of people will even after I'm done fighting them they say you don't fight like normal sorcs because I don't like I I honestly I wait until my health is really low before I start applying damage Shields and I go up against other sorcerers I can I can sneeze on them and they're putting on a full shield stack with healing War they got full health full shield and they're still full shield stacking while I'm doing damage and if they bring that back you can just watch these Sorcerers get they they'll drown they'll drown I think Shields should probably be looked at as far as like the fact that you can just have basically double health of everybody is kind of absolutely need to be looked at I mean if meler Marina doesn't say anything else about it like the thing is they can't change anything inside of melr Arena that's going to fix Shields it's because of how Shields work that SS are able to go in there and have that buffer to Danger every a lot of other people have danger and SS aren't the only one other people have some options but there's a lot of setups that do not have that option they don't have anything like when I get hit by that poison on floor 7 I'm done I'm done I take my hands off the keyboard when poison hits me unless I'm like one inch from the pool and Cypher like I saw you run it on your first try you didn't even know what was going on and you're just running around you're like yeah so I'm just popping this Ward like uh so what do I do guys and you're like reading chat popping Harden ws and like for me I'm done instantly it's insane I remember that I had the poison on me for about a minute and I was just I was still fighting back and I'm like what's going on I I still stacked my way through so much of that dunge I was like I was asking chat while I'm Shield stacking like yo what am I supposed to do here guys and I'm just spamming Shields just eating everything tanking through it like it's nothing yeah I think the thing with sorcs is just that there's very very few like negatives to them they are able to tank damage they're able to be mobile and they're able to do damage and it's just I I I don't think that that's very balanced has a great burst option despite how clunky it is it will get you killed if you don't use it at the right time on the right mobs yeah it's so clunky but it does give you a great burst option too that's the other thing there's some mechanics you can skip with it you can't do the dungeon without overload like it's that it's that op like it takes your DPS from 10K to 30k like literally you do 30k DPS and overload and there some people who will just sit there and light attack through a whole phase and then go on to the next phase with a th000 overload and just blow through everything cuz it mine I've seen mine hit and I got a build I got a red guard sorcerer that's kind of extremely gimped I've seen mine hit for 35k so I'm just imagin with some of these op builds are doing in PvP the only thing with um with Shield stacking though it's like if sorcs are in five light and without the the reduction of physical damage it's like what are you really supposed to do as a sorc if you have nightl so that's kind of like how it almost justifies I disagree though like that's the thing like sorcerer Sorcerers have they have everything except for sustained DPS and a hard CC literally if they had sustained DPS and a hard CC it would be game over for every other class when when it when you compare it to a sorcerer because as of now like I'm tanking like for instance I was on my DK my stamina DK mind D was lower level but I got hit with a 10K surprise attack and an 11k still cyclone and died for from a night blade right he wasn't even in stealth he just wrecked me I got mad logged onto my sorcerer told the dude to stay there I'll be right back logged in my sorcerer went back to the same spot and completely wrecked dude without my health bar even moving so it's like sorcerer the problem is we have we have Shield breaker which is supposed to be the sorc shield fix but that's for stamina builds only and you have to use a five piece step bonus yeah and and that's not a fix though to like something that's used on multiple classes like it's a part of the game and I want Shields to be a part of the game I want it to be something core to a lot of builds I don't want one set to be like well if they're doing it too much just go and equip this set takes me 25 minutes to get out of combat if I want swi that set on I mean it's so stupid so that's not a way to bounce though that's that's really the point like Shield breaker was not the right thing they talked about uh putting crit on which was great it was nice to to have them say that on one ESO live and then the very next ESO live they're like yeah so that whole thing we talked about it's not happening but don't worry Shield breaker coming and it it wasn't a solution to things it's not a solution to PVE either cuz mobs aren't going to crit that's a whole another thing to tackle um but it needs to be looked at it needs to say you know someone needs to say this is a problem we're aware of it and we're going to do something you know and right now it just doesn't seem to be and that discourages a lot of people that are looking at this I think that message is loud and clear on the forums um right now cuz I read them a lot and people are on there saying you know um you know obviously they're seeing the class disparity there so yeah like I I I honestly like a lot of people want think because I I've been playing a sorcerer class for a long time and I remember I would go up against other sorcerers back in the day and the fights didn't last long because they would run out of resources just trying to spam Shields that's what a lot of sorcerers did um but now with the the fact that you could just keep refreshing your Shields like when I remember I remember reading the the um patch not for for it they were like yeah you know every time you cast a shield it'll refresh the shield I was like what I'm like oh I'm like I'm going to be op now cuz this was back when harness magick was still broken I'm like you mean to tell me I can keep harness MaGa on at all times without waiting for it to run off like I'm never going to die and that's when I started making those YouTube videos when I was pouring oil on zergs with my magic a sorcerer but if until they bring that that Shield issue back or the The Shield change to where you have to wait for that Shield to remove completely before you can stack another one people are going to complain about shields I agree and I also yeah and I don't want them I don't want them to just say okay we Nerf Shields by another 15% or we made Shields crible because when you make Shields crible then you you're going to they're going to add in a whole another issue because I can already see it happen now the fact that Shields don't have any mitigation on them and if they're taking crit damage people are just going to blow through Shields I think they just need to bring that Shield St whatever they change bring it back you can't refresh a shield unless your Shield is completely off you bring skill into the game and then you'll just watch and see these Sorcerers get melted I agree King I think they should start there man I you again I thought I thought a lot of ss just got better but they didn't man it's just it's it's really that it's it's that it's so easy to put up a buffer like people put up a buffer inside the mom Arena that is more Health than I have like there's something wrong with that know what's messed up I'mma tell you my bars crushing shock harness Magicka Crystal fragment Harden Ward light yeah I got two DPS abilities and I run through that dungeon like it's nothing just Crush in shock kill all the mobs pop and overload for the balls this good game good night that's that's all you got to do and I got my shield stack on my DPS bar so I never have to swap I can literally do the dungeon with one bar I don't even need the bar swap yeah I mean sneaky does it without even having a Resto bar he just has Shields I mean he doesn't even have a heal you don't need to you need to heal you just just quit surge to heal yeah I mean we'll see like running double Destro I would see double double rest double Destro sounds like an option I really like this question I think probably everyone could maybe comment on it um so the question is do you think the game will ever go back to skill versus numbers historically with most MMOs I've played a lot of MMOs before this game it always they always go down the exact same path and it's usually driven by business it's usually driven by making money and the path is give the people an easy button because the people whine and complain a lot because the game's too hard and so honestly that's the way that this game is going that's the way that I've Seen It Go um there are a couple couple easy buttons that were removed um lately but there's still a lot of easy buttons in this game do you think that it'll ever get there no I don't no I don't and I and I I hate to say that because I think this game of all games could really benefit from not having that easy button because this game would be the game I want to play um if this game didn't have an easy button easy buttons kill MMOs they kill them and and I don't want to see ESO go through that so I hope I'm wrong I really hope I'm wrong I got a question from brri he says if you were a developer how would you fix the Zerg mentality in cido so I would attack it from two fronts I would um de incentivize the need to Zerg and that'll also make it to where smaller groups have options to kill the zergs now I don't want to go too deep into detail because this topic like we can go for another three hours on on the Zerg topic but the first thing I want to say is um a group of 24 people if 24 people kill one person and assuming they have their AP buff on one person that's worth the full amount of AP 24 people kill him or her uh they'll receive 112 AP or 120 AP each so yeah the AP is split but there's actually AP created from that one person because the group is 24 people there's actually an increase in AP coming in from that one person he's no longer worth the 1,000 AP he's actually worth 120 multip by 24 however much that is 2880 2880 so there's actually CP I mean AP being created because a a large group killed one person who wasn't even worth two AA zero AP so that's the first thing I would do if I'm one player and I kill another player they're worth a th000 I get 1,000 AP 24 people get killed that one person they're actually like all together combined are getting 2,880 AP from that one player so that I mean yeah you you you're splitting the AP up but then you're also creating uh fake AP I mean I mean you're creating AP out of thin air just because 24 people decided to Ambush one guy or 24 people killed one person I I mean I say this all the time like they need to they need to make it to where if you're in a larger group you get less AP people people are telling me Oh they already have that system in place uh you know the more people you're in your group the less AP you get but there's a cut off point and then after the cut off point AP is just being rewarded for no reason uh just so that everyone gets you know a share that's worthy of uh um and the reason I mean the reason I say this like that that's just one aspect like I know to to a lot of people Alliance points means nothing um it doesn't mean anything to me but some of these zergs like you know to them just adding a little bit more of an incentive not to run a lot with a lot of people will help you have to you have to attack it from two fronts you have to de de incentivize it and then you have to make it to where smaller groups have a chance to kill larger groups and then that goes into AE caps ulti regen Dynamic ultimate but that's that's not the topic of discussion but just to answer your question I would attack it from two fronts hey it's not even a de you know deinen incentive that word is that word is it's tough but it's not even doing that like you said they're creating about three times more AP for them like they're actually creating an incentive to do it um it's it's strange to me uh I I I won't go much into the issue but it's just strange to me you know we we do talk about it more than once in the podcast it's clearly the primary indicator of performance issues in cidel that turns people away and nothing is done I just day after day I wonder like you know we have we have zenx people that come watch and we tell them and and they got to know like this is what causes your performance issues if you have performance issues like if you have performance issues killing and making your game look bad you want to take care of those ASAP like they're the things that should be top on your list like we don't want things dragging the performance we don't want people to come hop into cidel the first time be like wow this sucks it's laggy I'm never coming back here again and yet it's been here that long like it's time to do something I mean I don't know when but yeah um a question from Leo or Leo cor or whatever um was asking I think Cypher and Lucy and myself if uh think magic of DK would ever be returned to their former glory um got to have hope for sure I think that with some adjustments some of the ones that we discussed earlier it's definitely possible um it just depends on which direction they want to go in do they want to go in the direction of um allowing magic a DK to get back to their like being able to sustain and and tank people or do they want to go in the direction of kind of like evening everything out and allowing them to have executes and and more damage you know I'd preferably go in the direction of being able to tank things because I think that's the true nature of the DK class but I don't know got to have hope for sure just keep talking about it until somebody cares all right I got I got two fast questions sorry um BRZ ask uh would I like to see a small scale Arena implemented if so how I would love to see a small scale PV or PVP Arena implement it um and they can literally take what they have with either vet DSA or Mom Arena remove the PVE mobs and just randomly spawn us into one of those Arenas one of those stages whether it's the fire stage I still have the fire stuff still have the fire pop out of the background if you run too close to the edge on like the last boss fight still have the golden ghost they can still just leave all that stuff in just remove the PVP mobs the PVE mobs and then allow us to Q in for PVP it's perfect and cck gucks TV asks how do you like the Xbox One Elite controller for ESO on PC especially after the last update he ass this question like 5050 times I I got to answer it the elite controller is really good um I was already using the Xbox One controller it's really the the major difference is the build quality so you'll just have a better F in your hands when you're playing a game so if you play with a controller definitely get the elite controller nothing compares to it like it's it's it's amazing I got two fast questions too how did I sell out kidding kidding Xbox paid you to to buff up the elite controller I wish I wish all right J Hill 613 as fingers do y'all think they listen to any of y'all um hey J Hill Jay Hill is a fellow texting so all right well I think that's a funny one I I you know I think I know they come here sometimes and they hear us but do they listen that's another word um I think they listen to us about as well is you know a husband listens to his wife all the way up to the divorce uh not too damn holy crap that's how it goes so ver you ask Swan fangers do you think the arena will end up being more melee friendly I certainly hope so they got to do something with it um it's clearly clearly built for range if you go in there with melee you're walking into a a just a storm it's pretty rough uh a lot of Arenas actually have specific specific melee counters they are built purely against melee okay and that's pretty bad um the guy the skill you guys were talking about blind blind's still in the game you probably don't realize it just crushing shock through stuff but yeah there's mobs in there that blind you so I can't even hit anything for like 5 Seconds uh that happens a lot that's fun there's just a lot of anti melee stuff yeah I notic that they put that ability on me I'm just sitting there like bro I'm I'm range DPS and how how do you heal at that point bro fing when when I get blinded I just pop Rally or or Vigor and I just roll around for a second or two I mean it's it's silly but there just a lot of things the bosses they do PB AOE so they're shooting AOE out from themselves there's nothing in there to be like oh you're range well I'm going to punish you for that that doesn't exist anywhere in there really it's all just damage stuff but if you're melee it's going to be harder to deal with not to mention the fact that you're probably stamina unless you're a DK Magicka which you know good luck anyway I completely agree with that when I played the arena the first time through I was like I I mean I know it's possible with melee because I've seen you do it I've seen some Sam Templars do it I know some sers that did it but I'm like it is going to be so much more difficult if you have to be in their face to do the damage well I noticed one thing like in that Arena I I don't know if it's because I'm a magic a build or a or it's cuz I'm a gimped red guard magical sorcerer I don't know but your DPS Fang Rush is off the charge compared to Ms like you just obliterate everything in there it takes me like an hour to kill a trash mob it took a lot of iterations that build though the thing I've arrived at make sacrifices and I just have to avoid things but at the same time if you can burst through things you save time you know having to healer or do other stuff so um if you if you try werewolf I can guarantee you will obliterate that dungeon man yeah no I yeah I'd seen uh alus do some werewolf stuff the only thing that scares me is like yeah you'll kill through like coming out of it you could just die in like one second you know to something and like that's how the that's how a lot of the dungeon goes like the thing is that build revolves around healing off crit surge like it'd be great for other builds but it wouldn't be as great as as mine is cuz mine revolves around most my sustain just comes off crit Rush healing so um it would be tougher for other stamina builds but uh that's that's kind of the point of it is really really high crit damage all right guys uh we are closing in on 3 hours I know it probably took a really long time this time but I think we should wrap up the podcast I just want to thank uh our donators for today's podcast Blacklist with the $50 donation thank you so much man I appreciate it um we also got a donation from uh Jace Blen for $10 he says Shield stack for days thanks Jay nor call Justin with $5 donation and Elizabeth Austin with the $20 donation thank you guys so much thanks everyone who tuned in to the podcast this is going to be posted on YouTube youtube.com/ CER PK and if you want to catch the casters on Twitch or YouTube Type in exclamation mark Casters in the in the chat and you'll be linked to you to all the casters twitch page you can find the information there are any of you guys streaming tonight yes sir yeah I'll be doing the arena probably immediately after this all right yeah I won't be all right you guys can catch the casters on their stream follow them show them some love thank you guys so much for tuning in and thank you Jules for showing up thank you zynthesis for sharing your in put on the night plate as well as well as soft caps and other things uh we're looking forward to getting more guests next time around um we'll probably finish up the classes and I do want to bring at least one uh experienced Templar player so that we can have a very good uh Templar perspective because not a lot of us play Templar so blob fat blob fat is definitely a good option if he's interested yeah BL so thank you guys so much for tuning in catch to the cast on their twitch page Lefty Lucy FR King Richard exclamation mark casters if you want to see that and if you want to donate towards the podcast exclamation mark tip in the chat uh this will be on youtube.com/ ciper PK and uh we'll see you guys in two weeks we're trying to do this every other Saturday so we've this is our third episode we've been consistent so far every other Saturday we want to come here and just talk about anything relating to the game thank you guys so for tuning in guys thanks thanks guys everybody have a good nightres microphone activated hey guys welcome we are we're live right now welcome to episode three of we are ESO podcast you guys notice we have a uh a new overlay it's close to the first one but it's touched up a bit looks a lot better we also have the chat in the window this was requested by some people so that when they rewatch the uh the podcast um on YouTube they can see what the the Chatters are saying so few changes here to the podcast thanks to some helpful feedback from you guys and some helpful people uh hope put this together uh we're always looking forward to hearing your feedback and improving the podcast so let's get started today is going to be a very focused discussion uh that's another thing that people wanted to see because sometimes we're talking about too many things and we end up not talking enough about particular subjects so today it's two topics topics one of them is going to be the main focus which is class balance we're going to cover all four classes and then the second topic after we're done with that is going to be the melstrom arena just the new Arena that came with the orsinium patch um so I just want to start off by doing the regular introduction because uh some people might be watching for the first time some people probably don't know everyone here hopefully you do uh you can always type in exclamation mark Casters in the chat if you want to see uh all the corters link information my name is cipher uh this is I twitch.tv/ cerk youtube.com/ CER PK uh you guys can find my info there and uh I've been playing Elder SCS online ever since the initial beta I've been pvping majority of the time um I focus on solo gameplay whether it's PVE or PVE majority of the time it's PVP but it's solo gameplay is what I focus on King Richard go ahead hey guys my name is King Richard um most of you guys know me from YouTube and twitch twitch.tv back/ King Richard 15 um I prefer small scale PVP and ESL but I also do a little bit of PVE and I'm known for playing the magic of sorcerer class Fang rush I am Fang rush I play uh stampur been playing since beta uh you can find me on YouTube as well at fanger um same as my name here Lefty what's up guys Lefty Lucy been playing since beta as well primarily focused on PVP mostly small scale you can find me on YouTube as well Lefty Lucy PVP same back slash for twitch and I primarily focus on the DK Dragon Knight and also werewolf and today we're also bringing with us Jules she was here on the last podcast but we're bringing her again because first of all uh she was cut off a bit too much primarily by me and then we didn't really get into the Dragonite discussion uh which is why we brought her last last time so today we're going to start off with class balance all four classes so what we're going to do first is actually uh I'm going to have everyone in the uh podcast list off the top classes that they think like top of the food chain to the bottom you can leave things out that you haven't played Just from your experience and what you do uh forget if you don't play group don't comment on it from a group perspective if you only play solo comment from solar perspective small group small group perspective in your opinion when it comes to the classes and when you when you say it out I want I want you to say okay stamina and I played Magicka like specify it just a little bit what would you say is your top three let's just let's just go with the top three cuz it can get a little too complicated um start with Lefty and we'll work our way back over here what you say for for what you do so top three for what I do I I do solo PV well I do small small group PVP um but that that kind of includes so so the the performance of the the classes of my top three is about the same in small group as well as solo um man top one it's it's tough for me so so you got your night blades and your SS that are they're pretty damn close in my opinion um a lot of it depends on the player but I think I think I'm going have to go I think I'm going to have to go with the magic sword top one and then I'm think I'm going to have to go with the stam night blade for number two and then three this one's tough too I might actually put magic Templar at number three right now all righty fish um from a from like a 1V one perspective I'd say um I think Stam night blade you know with good CP and everything they really scale very well um probably not for group play though I they're one of the weaker ones I find for group play not that they're bad but they just don't synergize as well as some others would like a Templar um but number two overall magic historic and it's right there with night blade I think magic is s stronger in some aspects than night blade for sure um from a survival aspect and three is Pretty Tough those two I think are much higher Above the Rest um I really like Stam DK for number three in group play I don't think it's like the strongest I think it's very good all around I I I'm not really sure number three Stam s's really good too but man it's all I play so I know it's strength all righty King Richard um I'd probably say it's a it's a tight tie for my number one with uh sorcerer magic Sorcerer And stamina night blade um both of them they they they're basically the same thing like high burst DPS really really good survivability and Mobility so I can't really pick one over the other but I I have played both of them and depending on the situation they are they can be really really op depending on the situation sometimes night blade comes out on top sometimes sorcerer comes out on top and then for my number three I would probably say um a stamina DK and I would then from from what I do what I do is basically small scale PVP mainly solo PVP I would say Stam DK is number three and Templar would be tied like Stam Sor for number four all righty uh for my top three I I primarily do just solo PVP and I'm not going to talk about uh 1 V one cuz 1 V one is a little different sometimes you'll have certain setups that you know beat other setups because of just counters and stuff like that but just from a solo PVP perspective going out into open world as a solo player there uh I put uh I I know Stam night blade and Magic aorc probably on the top of most of people's list um so I'm not going to put them together like I'm not going to tie them up for first but I'm going to I'm going to say that Stam Nightblade is just an inch above the magic of Sor from from what I do and just how I play um so Stam night blade would be first magic ofor right after and then a small drop into Stam DK and then and majority of the other classes that fall after Stam Decay are either really really close or there's a big drop like for example magic of DK that's where the big drop happens um so what we're going to do today is we're going to talk about all four classes um I know we don't necessarily uh have very good Templar um representation uh today but it's something we're going to work on probably bring some Templar players some experienced Templar players to talk about the Templar class A little better uh but what we're going to do first is uh we'll start off with the DK there's just it's a Hot Topic right now on the forums especially regarding the magic of DK um and that's why I mean there's a there's a forum post by jwes uh that lists out basically everything regarding the class and uh that's why we brought it here so she can you know discuss the the the situation in the DK class so Jules I'm going to let you take lead on this one uh and just give me you know the basic rundown of you know what is wrong with the uh the Dragonite class what your opinions on the Dragonite class from from a Mana or stamina perspective um go ahead you're you're feed you have the floor to yourself okay um I think well first I guess for the for the top three that I think um I actually think that magic of sorc is a little bit higher than Stam KN blade um just in my opinion I think their ability to tank with Harden Ward their Mobility with streak and their high damage just puts them a little bit higher just because Stam night bed can't tank as much damage um however I think they can output a lot more damage so I don't know I guess like what you guys all said they're all pretty close and then I really like um magic and KN blade for number three because I think its damage is pretty comparable to stamina night blade um it's a little bit lower but it has the ability to have like much better heals and their DPS heals them so um as far as DK I don't know like really where to start how about this how about for every class we can actually just go through every single ability and passive and just kind of point out the ones that either need some rework done or are underperforming overperforming whatever the case is um I have a skill calculator open right now so I'll just I'll guide us through the uh the skills and passives and everyone can little talk a little bit about them so art of flame skill line that's the first skill line uh the Dragon Knight standard that was actually a very like very popular ability used by a lot of dragon knite back in the day and uh right now I rarely do see standards out there so let's start off with the Dragonite standard um um go ahead so Dragonite standard has been nerfed multiple times um just as far as like it's actual cost it's now 250 again um the fact that it's stationary unless you use um shifting standard kind of makes it difficult and then the lack of uh group utility it used to do a damage mitigation for your entire group and now it's just for your individual self so um it just kind of is not really good in PvP anymore other than maybe the shifting standard which is good for the health debuff but the thing with standard is um it's just so easy to dodge roll out of you can negate it it's a ground effect you can just it's it's pretty easy to counter so unless you're like stacked on top of a flag and people are just totally stuck in your standard and like snared or cced or whatever there then it's just not going to be that great other than the fact that the health debuff is pretty pretty good okay Lefty um I never like standard uh I thought it was always kind of shitty in PvP um I approach it from the small scale perspective um and I guess let me let me Define small scale too because I think I see some people in like 24-man groups and then they'll call larger groups zergs I'm like dude you're a zerg so like when I say small scale I'm talking like less than four four or five people so in in that size group I've always thought that standard was kind of shitty um even from the beginning just because it's so easy um to to get out of it it's like oh you stepped in a standard okay let me let me do one Dodge roll and I'm out of it I'll just wait out here while you just play with yourself in the middle of that standard so I always thought it was kind of useless um I've never been impressed with it I've never used it in PvP so just just the she fact that all you have to do is walk right out of it and it does nothing I I don't care about that ultimate I think the only um the only place that standard has like a really is like really good would be like the sewers where it's really close Corners where like the Halls are so narrow that you almost like can't get out of it um you go forward you go backwards I mean sure you can't go side to side because you got walls right there but every time a DK uses a standard on me I'm just like thanks for wasting your ultimate personal personal opinion you asked Fang rush I know you don't play the DK class but do you have anything to comment on the uh standard ultimate yeah uh I have dks at run with my group uh as Joel said the only we brought it back in the sewers your your mic I mean Lefty uh camera drop oh my all right no C Lefty Lefty all right there we go you fish my bad Sor right so yeah um we we were using it in the sewers um you know it's hard to Warrant using it over say leap which is so good Dragon leap is so good Y and um the only way we would do it really is if there was another DK there that was going to LEAP too and it's like well we could have two leaps but it would really came down to the fact that once we were grinding through a lot of people we can't burst all of them at once we would Bol in drop a standard and uh it's very tight spaces uh neate Nova um all those very good down there that's why I really like sewers um PVP and I miss it because it's gone away but um it's out in open cidel yeah minus groups like just like ball groups clashing on a flag and dropping it I don't really see it much and if someone used it in open field I would be like thank God now he's not going to have leave up you know so Richard um I I think standard is um I think it's just one of those abilities that needs a a slight rework and what makes it's kind of similar to an ability like liquid lightning um Liquid Lightning is is only good when you synergize it and that's the same thing with standard if you can synergize it while you run somebody out of a stamina and they got to sit and take that uh healing debuff on top of the damage that dot damage that it does to you is really good but it it never works like that because you you know most people just dodge roll out of it and you can't synergize it yourself so it's just one of those abilities that kind of needs a needs a buff to increase that small scale play I don't think they really realize that a lot of people don't always run with other players and a lot of times abilities that could be used are completely useless because they don't run with other players that's just what standard is to me it's just one of those abilities that can't really use because you're solo okay so from you know my opinion regarding standard I when I played DK like way back in the day uh standard of Might was my go-to ultimate just because of how the uh the ultimate regen was working like you could get your standard up pretty quickly uh so I would just use that for resource management you know control the battlefield stuff like that eventually people started learning how to get out of the standard so I was running with leap and standard leap for single Target DPS mainly uh and then standard when I get overwhelmed by too many people the problem that I see right now with standard is the cost is just too high to uh to warn it as a uh useful ultimate over the other options you have a lot of the times you need your resources quickly so you want a cheap ultimate like Dragon leap on top of that Dragon Leaf just seems to be a little more lethal when it comes to finishing players off and yes sard is a damage over time uh but it's no longer as powerful as it used to be back then when it had the 50% healing reduction um you had situations where you could drop it on you know a Healer and then basically cut off their entire healing if you had any other form of uh healing reduction so I know we don't have heal stacking anymore but that brings us to another thing you know regarding almost all abilities ultimates that have major and minor you know debuffs uh they're just not as powerful just because of the fact that you can get the major and minor from regular abilities I feel like ultimates that have major and minor should have very unique major and minor Buffs like I feel like the healing debuff from standard shouldn't be 30% I think it should be 50% and I think the cost especially with the thing is they raise the cost of standard while also Nerf nerfing ultimate regen so it's like a double Nerf and it's just it costs too much for people to use it so honestly reducing the cost of standard and also maybe increasing the damage and healing reduction uh will definitely help make it more viable in PVP um regarding the DK class another you know problem that they have is lack of a true Gap closer uh outside of weapon abilities um and our quote unquote Gap closer is fiery grip uh that's the the chain pull so Jules I'm going to let you start off with fiery grip tell me your opinion on that ability it's bad all right next my turn no no no Jules go ahead go ahead explain your uh um I think that the way that that skill works is just totally Bonkers it's like if the person cced you get pulled to them but if they're not then they get pulled to you it's like you can never really like plan to go in One Direction or another so it's just not like a reliable Gap closer I mean it could be if they would make it go one way or the other but at this point I just don't think it it is lety I actually strongly disagree with that and VP no offense DRS um Gap closer is a gap closer I mean you close the gap that's that's all it is whether they come to you or you come to them it serves its purpose and and to me it's like it doesn't matter if I get in their face or if they get in my face as long as we're in each other's face then I can start doing my melee attacks so from that aspect I actually I actually really like um chain or fiery grip I actually really like that skill but the problem with it is is it just straight doesn't work um because if anyone Dodge rolls or has Shuffle or anything like that and then you use chain then you're screwed it it casts and then you don't go to them and they don't go to you and um one of the things that disappoints me about that is because the way the way that they worded uh whenever they made the change whenever um if you couldn't pull them to you then it pulls you to them the way that they worded it they said if for any reason whatsoever you can't pull the target to you then you get pulled to them okay that's not how it works because if they Dodge it then nothing happens so if they actually honored the way that they worded that I think it would be a really good Gap closer Fang Rush um I think chain used to be a lot cooler um it's just I think the thing that sucks about it most now is it falls into the category of CC breaks so if people have a movable up or they pop in a movable pot or they just CC broke dude's throwing out a chain it doesn't matter like it's just uh so yeah maybe he gets pulled to you but I I don't know it's just it's I I it shouldn't be tied into the CC break category I don't think um it would allow because some people want to play DK like that and they used to and that just doesn't exist like more of a support type build and they were doing things in the party focusing staying with the party yanking people in thought that would be an aspect of the class and it kind of was early on when chain had a lot of freedom uh that it just doesn't have anymore so Richard yeah I I agree um like other gap closes like Ambush uh crit crit Rush um all any other gap closer Invasion well I can't say Invasion but any other gap closer like the main Gap closer basically Ambush and crit Rush um those abilities don't give you CC immunity when you use it you can spam it on somebody and not give them CC immunity which allows for you to combinate so I can crit rush into you and then try and wreck and blow you or put a fossilize on you and CC you but for an ability like chains it just literally pulls me towards you and then it gives you a five six second CC immunity and it it throws off the fight like it makes it almost useless in PvP because if I'm going waste my CC uh Immunity on just a gap closer I might as well not have it on my bar because I'm not going to be able to get the kill um if I'm cing you just by closing the Gap and that's that's the main issue that have with that ability and also they kind of like need to extend a range and I kind of miss I kind of miss when um you can pull people off of keeps and stuff with that ability that was awesome like that was a reason to play DK like yo this dude is too close to the ledge okay come down here and let me talk to you but you can't do that anymore um so they kind of like they took away a lot of the the passion that the DK class had like it's just slowly becoming it's just slowly becoming a poo poo class and and extended change is one of those reasons why I I agree with most what you guys said my biggest concern with change is uh I mean of course I I would actually like it to be able to pull people off from you know the ledge of the keep the only reason that was you know change was because you know we had issues where other alliances would pull in groups of players so that it was easier to take the keep and that's just like a little unfortunate that people like would resort to that but it was still a part of the you know the DK class that was pretty interesting being able to pull people off keeps and stuff another problem that I have with using this ability is like Richard say is a cc immunity uh you Gap close and after you Gap close you you want to land your you know your CC so you can start doing your rotation or whatever it is uh you can't CC them you basically you Gap close and give them free CC immunity now I understand why there's CC Immunity on the chains cuz if there wasn't you could have like 3dk just just pulling some guy back and forth in a triangle uh and it just you know that that that wouldn't really be fun for for the guy being pulled but what I think they could do with this ability is have one morph pull you to them and the other morph pull them to you now the morph that pulls you to them shouldn't give your opponent CC immunity it should just act like a regular magic Gap closer uh that you use to you know pull yourself to your opponent uh the other morph can you know stay as is you know pull back and forth and give the immunity I'm sure a lot of people will probably prefer the one that doesn't give them immunity but that's just something I think what what it is is the issue is that they got it tied into C like the ability is fine like it's smart that okay if I can't pull you towards me um then I'll pull myself towards you that's smart but the issue is in order for the game to recognize um the next ability lineup which would be the pull towards the player you have to have CC immunity for that to happen or you have have to block it and that's the issue they just need to take the CC immunity away from the ability and say hey if you use this ability once on a player you got a 5-second cool down and within that 5 Seconds instead of you pulling a player towards you you pull yourself towards a player and that would solve that issue yeah so just put it if they put it on a separate you know CC cool down which is actually something they should do with not just this but other forms of CC that heck maybe even Roots need to have some sort of of separate cool down attached to it but if they had the ability to make this on a separate cool down it would be perfect because you wouldn't be giving free CC immunity but you would still have some sort of immunity from this ability cuz I think this is the only is this the only ability in the game that uh grants CC immunity without truly uh without like disorient or stun or stunning the I think it is to play to play devil Devil's Advocate on the CC thing it doesn't really bother me too much I mean yeah it's really unfortunate that it's like you said it's the only um only Gap closer or ability that grants CC immunity and doesn't actually do anything to the Target except move them that kind of sucks that that kind of sucks but um the fact that it give CC immunity doesn't break it for me because I mean you've got fossilized and you've got obsidian Shard too you have two ranged CCS you could just pop one of those and then use your Gap closer and that's exactly how I I use my Gap closers right now I pop fossilize and then I Gap close in so to me it wouldn't really affect me it it wouldn't really matter because I seec them and then instead of pulling them to me it pulls me to them so it still works just fine the only problem like I said that that breaks it is when they Dodge roll because you can you can still Gap close on anyone else with any other gap closer if they Dodge roll it just puts you in their face it won't damage them but it still puts you in their face that's what breaks that ability for me well e even though even though you're you use the fossil first and then the Gap closer after the chains after soon as you hit the fossilize with the chains it's going to break the fossilize so you still end up overall you end up giving them CC immunity I think the argument is that it's not working like other good Gap closers like Ambush I can Ambush into you and fear you that's a 5-second cc um or I can use fossilize and then wreck and blow or I can rush into you and then wreck and blow like that's the issue is that you can't Gap close in and then follow up with the CC no matter how you put it it's it's just not possible and then on top of that there's stuff like the Dodge roll cuz I mean I don't think I think you should be able to dodge roll the damage but not the actual pull in effect because you can dodge roll crit rush and everything but if if you're still if you're in the process of crit rushing you'll still go to the Target so it's a lot of stuff with that ability that needs to be worked on all right uh so we're not going to go over every single ability but we're going to go over the like the ones that I think uh need to be discussed um um Lava whip that's the second one there people a lot of people are asking for a stamina whip uh just for the stamina DK now I've been playing Stam DK uh I played a one hand and shield and two Stam DK and also played a uh two and bow styk and I found that you're kind of either forced into running rans Sack or wrecking blow for for instant DPS um and you don't really have like a class spammable skill for uh for DPS purposes so a lot of Stam deks are asking for a Stam Whip and it's actually something that's I'm I'm kind of surprised as to why we don't have a Stam stamina whip because uh all the abilities that were uh so be I'm talking before when everything was Magicka based there were certain abilities that were scaling off of armor abilities like surprise attack uh Ambush biting Jabs lava whip uh they would scale off of your opponent's armor not spell resist even though they costed Magicka you use armor to mitigate it now all those abilities got a stamina morph except lava whip I don't know the reasoning behind it I know DK has got searing strike and fiery breath as stamina morphs but those are damaged over time and we already know like damage over time uh sometimes is just not as reliable because there's so many ways to counter it cloak Purge cleanse while just instant DPS is just a little more it's a little more solid when it comes to you know building your stamina DK um so honestly I think stamina dks need to have a stamina whip uh because you're forcing a lot of St decays into either running a one hand Shield or 2 for their primarily primary DPS and then you're running just you know stamina uh weapon class abilities uh for your main DPS so you know Jules you I know you don't you're focusing on the magic DK aspect but have you played samam DK uh what do you think about it when it comes to the the whip um I've only played Stam DK a little bit but that was the main drawback for me um just the the lack of a single Target Stam ability um I don't like wrecking blow and RC just seems weird and you know I'd want to probably run like doal wield and two-hander uh you know for rally and for flying blade or whatever but um yeah I really think it's necessary and I think um molten whip should be what it is because flame lash is just Doo good in PvP for by good I mean just not really good but um I think it should be molten whip because that's the one that uh PVE dks use and it's um it it grants like what 151 damage or something extra spell damage or something to the abilities if it's slotted on the bar something like that I don't know the exact uh tool tip but I think that that could go and and PVE dks could very easily use flamelash and they wouldn't see too much of a decrease in DPS so I don't think it would affect um things too much I think it it's kind of just a no-brainer ly yeah the problem the problem with the the DK um the stam DK specifically um is and we're talking about balance here so it's when you look at the when you look at the stam night blade they've got concealed weapon and surprise attack they have their options for stamina for Magicka for instant cast DPS abilities um you've got Templars um and they've got Jabs stamina and magic amorphs and then you've got the sorcs and you got the dks that don't have the instant cast DPS stamina morphs so it's only it only makes sense to give that to them um it doesn't make sense to force them to look outside of their class abilities when the other two classes can look inside of their class abilities so you want to you want a Stam frag for sorcs or a Stam curse maybe um I'd prefer Stam frag uh and then you want a Stam whip for dks it just it just only makes sense it doesn't though come at me then because it it doesn't because you got to understand like for for instance dks they're forced to go outside of their class line to get instacast DPS right which is fine as a Nightblade as a sorcerer you're forced to go out of your class to get instacast healing which is through the wrestle staff only class that has healing built in is a Templar um so if you start giving all the classes what the other classes do uniquely yeah exactly DK's also have self-healing and that's something that night blades and Sorcerers don't have built into their class so if you start taking you know stuff that's unique to one class and you give it to another class you kind of take away the uniqueness uniqueness and skill of PVP and ESO so I'm I'm kind of against the St whip whip because then you'll get deks with an ability that hits just as hard as surprise attack on top of the fact that they still have self-healing they still have a stamina dot they still have uh tankiness and passives that restore their resources so every class has some type of uniqueness and I don't want the game to go in that direction where they start giving every class okay this class has a stamina morph so let's give it to this class I don't think that should be a thing in so so um Fang rush I'm gonna let you uh talk and then I'm going to give my opinion regarding this the back and forth left and Richard uh F I know you play Stam Sor which also kind of suffers from the same situation they don't have an instant Stam DPS but from a Stam DK Stam Sor you know just you go ahead yeah I agree a lot with what Richard just said actually um cuz people tag me a lot on the forums about Stam Sor bounce they say where's their where's our Stam frags and that'd be pretty strong I don't even know how it would work because big strength of frags that it procs when you use other skills you know how would my stem frags proc when I'm Wrecking blowing people and if it did that'd be pretty wild if I could wreck and blow someone pop him with a frag and execute them I mean you you could cause some trouble there but for me I agree a bit with King what I'd like to see is just more Stam options for people that don't have them um on my sorc I have 15 Circ skills I have four of them skilled I use three of them the fourth one I throw in for PVE I mean that's awful I don't even skill the other ones cuz they're all they're not good for me and um it's that's just how little stamsorc has at its disposal so that's just a problem they need to address they just need to go through and say Here's a bunch of skills that this guy would never use maybe we can make them useful I mean they even just put in a set for Stam SS to use some pet arm that's for I mean that's for Stam night blades but oh okay then then you know what then they don't even care about Stam so but it's just yeah I I what I'd like to see is just more options like like again just agreeing with what king said like you don't have to give just a straight insta damage to everyone in their class line like that's what that's where Stam Templars are good when I group with Issa he's always going to do more quick DPS than I can cuz he can jab and he has burning light like to synergize with it that's what his class has from a stamina perspective now I'm fine not having something like that that synergizes with my passives for more damage but I'd like to have some stamina option somewhere else in there because hybrid builds just don't work and the fact that they Cap CP just crushes hybrid builds that much more hybrids won't be here till 2017 or something when they raise the CP ceiling and even then the game just doesn't function too well when it comes to hybrids you have hybrid utility at best that's it so um there you go that's my I'll give my opinion on the topic uh I I kind of disagree with uh I I mainly agree with Lefty Point regarding the stamina build because the way I see it is let's look at Magic builds for a second every magic build so we got Templars got the Jabs night blades got concealed DK's got the lava Whip and uh Sorcerers have their frags just it's just bread and butter DPS um so even with from the Magicka builds the the sorcerers and night plates have to go out of their class skill line to get reliable healing but they don't have to go out of their classic land to get reliable you know instant DPS but then when you go into the stamina Spectrum you got a situation where um some classes have to go out of their class skin line to get healing and DPS so let's look at the stam DK uh Stam dks are usually running two or three Stam I mean DK abilities so going to what much said adding more stamina options will help uh but at the end of the day people want stamina options that they can actually use uh in their PVP setup efficiently so we have searing strike and fiery breath but outside of I mean they're both dots so you you you'll be running two separate set of dots and dots can easily be countered just just I feel like when it comes to the DK Class A stamina whip is the answer for them for Sorcerers like I don't know how a Stam frag will work a sorcerer probably should have a little more options when it comes to you know stamina utility in in their in their other you know abilities but just regarding the DK class in particular because that's what we're talking about right now there's a lot of dks that are running like one or two DK abilities and usually one of them is the ultimate and it's you know ferocious leap or Dragon Leaf so um I don't know about Stam frag I really haven't played stamina sorcer yet to comment on that uh but I've played Stam DK long enough and I know but they are very limited when it comes to their source of DPS because they don't have a stamina whip um and they have to go out of their class skin line to for heals and for DPS because Green Dragon Blood we'll get to that in a second but Green Dragon Blood is just out of the picture nowadays so um there's one more ability that we're going to talk about from Ardent flame before we go to the next skill line and I want to try to get through these quick we have four classes to cover but that's all we're talking about this uh this podcast outside of the the arena so um Inferno now I have not played with Inferno but a lot of dkss that I've played with or I've talked about Inferno from both PVE and PVP perspective have told me that Mage Light is just the better option so uh Jules I'm going let you start off with this um in my opinion both of the morphs of Inferno are just pretty useless for a magic ATK um you have one that gives I think weapon crit and then the other one has this like insane getes back like 151 Magicka if you kill a person with that little flame ball oh my God which is is like the likelihood of that happening is so is like pretty low and then you think even if that does happen you get back 151 Magicka it's like what is that going to do for me in like a 30 to 40K Magicka pool that's just so it just looks like it must be a typo or something it's like insane to me um other than that I mean in PVE I run both so I run Mage Light for the 7% extra Magicka um 5% of the skill 2% from the passives and then Inferno for the dot um I don't really PVE anymore so I don't know if that's like what people are doing or whatever but um but yeah so I think that that one of those morphs should definitely uh just be a little bit better like if it if it returned more Magicka then then it might be viable but in PvP I don't see how either would really be viable when when toggles take up two slots they're just too valuable to to have to give up for something that just gives be back like so little Lefty yeah I just had to Google what the skill is like I was like I was like what the hell is that and then I look at it I'm like oh that's that terrible one that I never even like even messed with yeah that skills garbage like yeah um approaching it from a especially from a PVP perspective Jules hit my point right at the end right there the toggles the toggles um really put you at a disadvantage with the The Limited number of abilities that we have if you want to really make use of a toggle um Bound Armor on a sorc or or Inferno on a DK th those two abilities I like Bound Armor a lot more than I like Inferno but I dislike both of them um because I swap weapons like crazy when I when I PvP because I I view my I view my second bar as an extension of my first bar not a completely different entity so my my combos are like they they require me to weapon swap in the middle of my in the middle of my combat so I I can't use Inferno and and just looking at it like it's just like even if I could use it I wouldn't it just I I don't know what the answer is for that skill I think probably delete it and and give us something else because it's it's poo poo I agree with that I think Inferno needs to either be deleted or completely reworked and on top of that toggle abilities just it's a people find of really hard to to find a place for togg abilities because you have to slot two of your abilities you have to give up two of your abilities for one toggle siphoning strikes had that issue and they gave one of the morph of siphoning strikes I think or both of them are just like a self buff honestly Inferno should be reworked into a self buff uh Fang rush I'll let you talk about it um I don't know about this skill no you don't know about it because no one us that's fine I mean I I I didn't I actually didn't even know the morph that Jules described I I'm looking at it right now and that is the most terrible thing I've ever seen you have to kill someone with your with your dot that happens every few seconds and it hits so weak and you have to kill them and then you get like some mag like 150 Magicka back that's it's it's useless it's a 100% useless ability and it's a lot of them in the game and those abilities are the abilities that need to be taken out and then they can like start to kind of meet on on a middle ground with the players like people are asking for a Stam Whip and here you got this ability slide hey give him something like take that ability out the game and give us something that's useful because that ability is not useful now Bound Armor I know you said something about Bound Armor Lefty but Bound Armor is actually one of my favorite toggle abilities I I it's really good it gives maximum stamina and it increases your heavy damage by 11% so it's actually really good and then on top of that the only reason I like it on the stamina sorc is because you can use your overload bar to get those two skill slots back so Bound Armor is another story and I think that's a good ability but Inferno take it out the game give DK something more useful cuz it's it's useless now one question before we continue to the next ability really quick regarding toggle abilities yes or no just simple yes or no do you think toggle abilities should stay toggled as long as they're toggled on one bar regardless of weapon swap I think I think what should happen with toggle abilities they should probably try to do something to keep it a toggle ability but only have it take up one bar like maybe they can say okay hey you activate this ability and then when you're not on that bar you have 10 seconds to swap back to the bar before the ability wears off I think that would be more of a legitimate option because I don't really like what they did with siphoning attacks I kind of miss it being a toggle and being on 100% of the time now you really got to focus on keeping that up as a buff on top of your other Buffs I really like that idea that that rich just said um another option that dks are probably looking for is like uh sorcs have their power rush or what the hell is it called crit not crit Rush uh crit search Power search something that can give you um major sorcery or major brutality any kind of like self buff that could be an option for that skill since it's so I would love to see major sorcery attach to that skill and make make it a self buff major sorcery self buff I would like to see that uh but just like guys yes or no on do you do you think toggle abilities should stay toggled uh and when I mean when I say stays toggled the effect stays the effect stays on both bars Lefty yes or no I don't know it's tough I lean more towards yes than no um but I'm I'm really not sure sish I'm not sure I don't think you could solution it just based on that it would make everybody running like two toggles pretty much right on every class and every build okay the issue with them being on only one bar is that they're free to toggle on so it would be adventitious to have like two on each bar and then just or one on each bar and and then they're not costing you anything but they're giving you something so it's kind of like an issue in that way they should have like a 5-second timer when you swap bars and then it'll open up more bu build choices cuz say you got you know Inner Light and then B you want to run in light and bound AR armaments you can like time how much you swap weapons and say hey I swap weapons basically every 5 seconds I can put in light on my main bar and then put Bound Armor on my off bar and I'll keep both of these buff Buffs up just by swapping weapon weapons um I think that would be a better option than to just have toggles on 100% of the time but I think that's kind of like meeting in the middle okay so regarding that the the main issue I have regarding toggles is if you run a toggle you're first you're basically forced to run it on both bars uh because of the fact that it un toogles when you swap back so let's say you have a DPS bar let's say on a magic DK I have a DPS bar I want to put Mage line on that bar but on my back bar I don't really need the Mage Light crit I just have just some Buffs on my back bar uh the problem is you have to run on both bars cuz in the middle of combat when you swap from your uh your main bar to your back bar and then you swap back the Mage slot will be deactivated then you have to activate it and it's just too slow in PvP I think honestly not having it active on both bars but if if you toggle it on one bar it stays toggled and once you switch back to that bar you get the effect as long as you know it's still on your bar um right that I think that's the middle ground that I think that I think what we get into with this with that um your your your suggestion Cipher is the imbalance between PVP and PVE because honestly I think the way toggles work right now is perfectly fine for PVE it it seems like a purely PVP thing and and a lot of times we we tend to ignore PVE here but you really I mean you keep you can't exactly do that with everything in this game so I don't I don't know if the making toggles always work even if it's on one bar would fix it because I I I think it's just I don't know it's I that one's tough that one's tough the cost of toggles is the fact that you have to run it on two bars because they don't cost anything so like if you take away the fact that they have to be rogle then like a you know if toggles are more seamless you may have options where you could run on one bar but toggles are awful yeah you have to like if you turn something on it's like it's like you get disabled it's such yeah I I agree with Lefty on that cuz I I was totally just thinking about PVP and in PVE I run in light on both of my bars and I I I do just fine it gives me the max magic that I get the spell crit and it just overall boost my build and I don't have an issue with not you know I don't have an issue with running it on both bars but in PvP I wouldn't even think about running inter light on any of my bars so yeah it's just a PVE PVP thing and we got to think about both sides of the uh of the fence all right next skill line draconic power uh okay there's I think two or three abilities we're going to talk about here um first one this is the main one Dragon Blood Dragon Blood used to be DK's main source of healing it actually was regarded as a very overpowered ability early on in the game um where did it all go wrong Jules go ahead um I'm not really sure to be honest with you something between last last patch and this patch um I don't know if the the battle spirit buff is applying in a different place or it's applying twice or what's happening with green dragon's blood but it's just so terrible it's like you can be half health and even with an ignas up you're getting like two 3K heels and it's like you just can't you can't do anything with that um even if you have like like on my DK I think I have like 80 or or something like that into blast and quick recovery and you can try everything that you want but if you're a magic a DK you're running in a like a Resto or you're going to get killed and you're going to run blessings of restoration and that's just what I mean that's what every DK that I know is doing I I only know one DK who runs um dragon's blood still and you're just completely dependent on Templar healers oh you say Dragon Blood you mean coagulating right coagulating I don't use I haven't used Green Dragon blood in months and months because doesn't stack with the tripods um so it just doesn't it's any ability that gives Stam regen because there's only minor and major Buffs now they need to they need to separate pots they need to separate ultimates even if it does give major those that stuff should stack cuz it it it's eliminating a lot of abilities and and different play Styles out of the game like a lot of people would say hey I'm going run this particular pot and I'm going to get my recoveries from these pots but you can't do that anymore because you already get the recoveries from a class ability and it's just not stacking it's really it's really ruining PVP and PVE Lefty yeah yeah I don't know what it is um like I used to run Stam Stam DK for a while and I used to use coagulating as my heel um and it was fantastic I would wait um I usually run the tank build so I would wait until I'm like super low because that that was my favorite favorite uh mechanic about Dragon Blood was that it healed you more when you were less uh when you had lower HP so I would build to have a high HP pull and then I would wait until I'm like super low like once I get in the execute range and then I would pop a dragon blood it would pull me way high into HP um so I'd need like two two dragon Bloods um to get to get to like almost full health um and then 1.7 or update seven comes along and I need like 14 Dragon Bloods to get from XP range to full so it's like something something doesn't make sense with the with the um so sure they they reduced healing but it it feels like they reduced it by too much just for that ability I don't I don't understand or it's like they took out the the scaling when you're low on HP or something it's like the issue is the ability itself is a percentage heal whenever you have percentages in this game they don't stack properly so which is one of the reasons why they did the major and minor stuff because they didn't want percentages to stack too much but that's the issue like you got a healing debuff that takes away 50% of your healing and then you heal for 30% and then the mathematics within the game is just not stacking correctly and you're getting like honestly you get like a 10% heal from Dragon Blood I'm not even lying 165 16.5 if you divide 33 by two is that at one HP yeah and that's at yeah that's it so if you use it if you use it at like 80% then you probably get like you probably get like garbage for yeah they just did a flat heel that would scale the way the other heels do then it would be better fish do you have anything in common regarding this ability uh not really I know a lot of people used to use it used to be very strong and um yeah the numbers are probably screwed up man a lot of a lot of numbers get screwed up when they patch things uh there's stuff screwed up right now that um probably won't be fixed till the next big patch so I mean the thing is it's it's a 33% heal of your missing Health honestly uh the battle the battle combat Spirit whatever it is that reduces your healing should not even apply this ability because this isn't even this ability doesn't have like a set number it's just a percentage of your health so it should either be percentage of your health or it should be an actual number that gets reduced by 50% uh that way it doesn't get you know double nerfed on top of that like I mean another thing that made this ability a little worse over time was uh overall health pools are a lot smaller than they used to be so you don't have as much health to restore but of course that's just that's just like a that's an option that people run with like you can still run with 30k health which was the average Health pool back then so that's just you know if if you have low Health you know you won really get as big of a heal but the thing is the blanket Nerf the damage blanket Nerf that was applied and the healing blanket Nerf that was applied 50% battle spirit debuff on all healing and and damage has caused some issues because certain abilities where affected more than others like green dragon blood and then certain DPS abilities like are really not not affected at all in comparison to some that just don't hit that hard anymore so Green Dragon Blood definitely needs to be reworked whether they make battle spirit not apply to it at all that's something I would like to see or make it into an actual you know uh solid number but honestly I prefer it to keep its original state where it restores 33% of your missing Health without any uh healing reduction applied to it uh cuz even with even without the healing reduction apply to it people are running with 20 to 25k Health pools you're not going to get a huge heal unless you're very low Health second thing that that is wrong with this ability is the potions give you stamina regen and you can keep up the potions for 100% of the time if you have the passives you can have 100% of time on your Stam region so your green dragon blood actually doesn't benefit you at all if you're using tripods and a majority of the PV PVP players do use tripods or not even tripods but even anything that's is going to give you stamina back with the stamina region applied to it so the major uh is it major um what is the uh whatever it is that gives you stamina Stam regen yeah major endurance major endurance uh it it should be changed on the stability to where it's either major or minor depending on the if you have the major up already uh or a minor up already or should just be completely different and maybe restore maybe should should restore a certain amount of uh percentage of your stamina back when you cast the ability so there's a lot of things that need to be redone with uh Green Dragon Blood um I I was going to talk about reflective scales uh but I mean just the main thing regarding reflect is in in my opinion just like let's just keep this one short I think reflective skills is nice but it shouldn't have a four projectile limit anymore considering that make the seconds the limit it's already 4 seconds long like how many projectiles are you really like going to be reflecting in 4 seconds like if there's a lot then you know that's the point of the class it's supposed to be tanky I think the one projectile per second thing if you're getting mowed down by a bunch of people and they're all you know sending frags and stuff your way you should be able to reflect all of them within that 4 second period or more than four at least the other thing with that is it's totally bugged I see all kinds of videos of people just like cooping meteors and frags and whatever the whatever um I actually like skilles I like where it's at right now a lot better than where it was before I feel like it was way too crazy before I don't I disagree with you um when you say that why can't I reflect all these frags if you got like 40 40 sorcs on you and you just throw up scales and and you just throw 40 frags right back in their face that seems ridiculous to me I actually my thing my thing I was always cyer you notice I was always against reflective scals especially before they nerfed it with the four projectiles I was always against it only reason I was against it though is because as a stamina sorcerer literally my only DPS yeah as a magical sorcerer my only DPS was crushing shock and Crystal fragment and then with the occasional curse and curse was never enough to kill somebody that had reflective skills up the entire fight so that's why I was against it but now there's a lot of abilities a lot of abilities in the game that give you an advantage over dks that you reflective scals so they can bring back the the 4 second infinite projectile uh reflect if they want to I don't have I'm not against that anymore just because they changed the game before it was a little bit ridiculous but now I mean you got night blades running surprise attack sell weapon um Sorcerers running magic a debt or inevitable debt uh you got people running proxy debt you got curse you got wrecking blow you got so many different counters to reflect the skills now they need to rebuff it because that was one of the things things that gave um dks an advantage and it's only going to affect people that don't know what they're doing cuz the the animation is clear as day like when somebody pops reflective scals I see it and I'm not throwing anything until I see the the animation go away so yeah bring that back bring the skilles back um I think when it used to be 4 seconds or whatever you know stamina really wasn't a thing so everybody was magic so everyone felt the pain really bad it's true there's a lot more around it such as playing a Stam class but um if with with the current hard caps and everything uh that don't really exist I mean if you have enough regen you could chain those wings all day yep and you would just be it'd be built into you and that would be something you are it's just like a you know projectiles don't work on me it wouldn't protect you necessarily out there but it seems to just eliminate certain people and that's how I used to feel when I played magic ofur I was like H it's one of those guys I'll just move right on to the next one and um and let the mob take him down so I don't know I can I can almost still have reflect on at all times with a build that has absolutely garbage for magic regen and Magic AO like I can almost still permanent permanently reflect stuff let me let me explain uh why I feel like reflective skills should not have a cap on it and you just got to it first of all back then and now it's a completely different play style back then every single projectile you reflected granted you ultimate which made reflective scales even more powerful because of the unlimited it just kind of worked that way on top of that there was there wasn't as many ways to break through reflect and right now from a solo PVP perspective as a Nightblade if I run into a large group of players I have a chance at getting away using cloak let's just say like T sorcs throw a frag at me I cloak they I dodge all of them I'm gone as a sorcerer I can streak away I'm gone Templar dks now I'm not here's the thing at first I was initially asking for dks to have Mobility to escape the xer but really that would make things a little like you need some diversity I think DK should be able to stand their ground uh and not just like it's not it's not going to be an easy way to stand your ground because the way I see it is reflective skills right now the Nerf only really applies when you have like five or six people shooting things at you that's when you're going to feel oh my like this Nerf is affecting you um my question is why do you why would you handicap I know Richard said this once you got 10 to 20 people fighting one guy who has reflect uh why would you handicap the one person who's being pelted like being you know ambushed with all these different projectiles where the 10 or 20 people could easily just use any ability that is not reflectable and melt that one DK why why would you handicap the one person on his own cuz reflective skilles Nerf does not change anything when it comes to one on one one on two one on Three it doesn't change anything but now now the the level the level 10 who doesn't who has no idea what he's doing he has a he has a bow he's sitting in the background just light attacking you with your reflect up he's he's causing more harm just just by not knowing what he's doing uh to you honestly you shouldn't the one person you shouldn't the minority and uh make the majority have an easier time killing someone um yeah you can keep reflect up at all times but now there's so many different things that can go through reflect and um the DK class is just not the same anymore this is something that I feel like uh could help bring back the magic of DK into the scene um and help DK stand their ground a little better because dks don't have Mobility but they should have the ability to stand their ground uh one way or another or have the chance cuz I'm not saying you you're going to send your gun with reflect because people can still just start heavy attacking with Resto Destro bunch of stamina builds can Ambush into you and you'll be done but at least have that option to where a DK um can kind of control the scene if they get heavily outnumbered just for a little bit a night blade can cloak sorcerer can streak or Shield stack uh Dodge DK is GNA have something as well uh in my opinion yeah I agree I maybe um maybe reconsidering like an uncapped projectile limit maybe it shouldn't be uncapped but maybe it should just be more than four um well I mean you could just give it you could give it the streak the streak treatment or the Dodge roll treatment and make it cost 33% more every time uh you recast it within you know 6 seconds every 4 it can't be 6 seconds it has to it has to be it has to be the the debuff timer has to be uh shorter than the actual duration it has to be like 3.5 seconds on a recast to make it so that you have to actually time your skills or four seconds don't them four seconds it can't be 4 seconds because I mean four seconds it when the ability is up which you should be able to do then no you use it right when the ability goes away no you should use it it should be used like within a 2 second to 3 second I mean here's the thing guys exactly that's what I that's magic DK is in such your crappy position that I think buffing reflective skills to be unlimited projectiles even that won't save the class but at least will start getting going the right direction that's why I feel like you know unnerfed scales is something that they need to do uh I mean dks have been in a really bad spot ever since uh 1.6 1.6 um so something needs to be done something drastic and I think that's something could be you know reflective skills being unnerfed dks can stand their ground um we're going to skip inhale uh we could talk about that in a future time when we revisit class or Jules do you just want to talk about it really quickly um before we leave before we leave scales um I just wanted to comment uh Cypher you mentioned why should you handicap the one guy against the 20 people um I see that perspective but I think I think the more important question is why should the one guy be able to press one ability and kill all 20 people um true well he won kill him the thing is it's about survivability well so so that's the thing that's that's that's exactly the problem that dks have is survivability I agree with you entirely there um but I don't think it's I don't think it's because of scales I don't think it's because of the scales Nerf something something just doesn't feel tanky with my DK anymore like I I literally just dropped I literally just dropped heavy armor with this update and I've been running heavy since beta it's like some something with the DK something with their base survivability is not the way it used to be um and it's it's something that's happening in in the code with the math I don't know what it is but it's it's the base it's the base tankiness the I think I think permanent reflect is ridiculous I always hated scales like honestly right now scales is I said it before it's in it's in my favorite spot because it's not ridiculous before it was just out downright ridiculous like like uh Fang Rush said you run into one of those guys that are using scales and you're like okay well I'll just fight someone else it's like that's that's stupid I I think that's ridiculous so it's it's the base tankiness that we need I feel like I like like I said I literally just dropped heavy armor I don't know what it is but people are still like two- hitting me when I'm in heavy armor it's like I can't survive as my DK anymore battle Roar is great but it's not enough right now it's it's the base tankiness um the base survivability I don't know something with the passives what they do like get rid of that one passive that increases our spell resistance or something like is it not there anymore I don't understand no I can I can elaborate no it's not even Perma block cuz Lefty never per block I can elaborate on this perfectly there's a lot of things that happen one of the major things not Che left Lefty but other dks like the light armor Magicka dks they're not tanky because they change the way light armor um resistances were the 25% instead of exactly yeah yeah right right so that's one thing that's just one thing now on your side Lefty you've been running a heavy armor tanky DK bill for the longest white streaks warlock um but in these new updates um you can't kill anything with white streaks warlock which is one thing I had I had just to on my sorcerer cuz I ran white staks warlock also and I wasn't I was not able to kill anything I was tanky I could survive I could tank anything I wouldn't die but I wasn't able to kill anything and that led to US changing our builds up because before me and ley's build was and I did the same thing I was a magical sorcer he was a stamina DK our bill was to out sustain the opponent and then and then beat you to death once you ran out of resources they took that away there's no more resource battle in this game so you either have to have high burst DPS or you have to be a face tank you have to choose one or the other because nobody's running out of resources and that's that's that's what changed in these updates is the fact that no one runs out of resources and it causes people to change up their builds so that's a good topic that you brought up the resources that segue no it's it's all good because um relevant though I feel like when when I'm making a PVP build right now I either have you know sustained EPS with a solid execute like my magic and I played uh Destro Resto build I have an execute I'll be running execute with that and have some burst options or I'll have so much damage that my wrecking blow will just take people out or my frags whatever like the the the point is right now if you're not running high damage or have a solid execute it's very difficult to take people out you can't just out sustain them which is something the DK did really well dks could out sustain people if they played properly their Resource Management uh was was well they could out sustain people but now it doesn't really matter because a lot of people can can have really high damage and be very glassy but still have like really really good sustain and that that champion points champion points not just Champion points but we also had a major shift from soft caps to no caps at all no it's 100% Champion points though the the resource battle like if you fight Cipher you take out your points from your magic recovery stamina recovery Stam reduction magic reduction you will run out of resources I've done it already I've I've like was fighting and I'm like damn I'm running out of resources I go look at my Champion tree and I forget to put points in those trees or I'm running a stamina uh Champion tree setup when I'm on my magic aill and you feel it like you literally cannot fight without the champion tree anymore and in order to fight without the champion tree we would have to go back to our older builds but the champion tree is what ruined the resource battle for everybody I completely agree I think that um the the strength of the DK class was that it could out sustain like Cipher was saying um you could take the damage and you could just out sustain them because you had battle Roar and other things of that nature and with that um with that battle out of the way it it makes dks not being able to do damage or tank and everybody being able to have unlimited resources it just makes them much much weaker all right let's let's move on uh we've been talking about the DK for an hour I know it's a DK has a lot to talk about so um I'm not sure how long we'll I mean I'm not sure if we'll cover every single class but we'll see how the time goes uh molten weapons the DK's quote unquote execute hate us cuz they a us they hate us cuz we a us uh one sec um I was just waiting for the uh the resub to pass it was actually really loud okay molten weapons Jules go ahead um every other class has has a one button execute night blad's got one that can be stamina or Magicka um rating destruction's really strong um the Sor one is is decent um sucks we'll get we'll get into whatever um but everybody everybody's like uh well DK have an execute it's like no you got to keep up a like a 9-second buff and then like try to weave in like heavy attacks like come on give me a break that's not the same as as like just spamming like Killer's blade or radiant destruction that's clearly not the same it it's just and I I wouldn't even care if we didn't have an execute like I said like all these damage Nerfs and stuff they're only applicable because of the lack of sustain so if I could Out Tank somebody and and have the resources to be able to just kill them just by like whittling them down then that would be okay but I mean you just you don't have the damage and you don't have the sustain on a DK and that's what the issue is you know they nerfed molten weapons right uh medium weaves used to prop the 150% buff and they made it to where you have to fully charge a heavy attack to get the buff I I there's no way anybody's ever going to convince me that that's the same as pressing killer blade once that's I just don't understand how um I don't understand where where who was complaining about molten weapons to the point where they got nerfed I molten weapons was incredibly op in PVE in PVE okay keep that up and all of your medium weaves in between everything um that was one of the huge strengths of the DK with Crush shock right uh with with whip but oh they were doing it with whip yeah and it's just it's so seamless to be able to weave mediums with whip and every single one of those mediums was like is it like 40% more it's or something like that 44 or something like that um every all of those were so now we have look we have an situ situation where like PVE nerfing PVP again yeah PVE like this is a PVE ability that got nerfed and then as a result it became even more useless in PvP um Lefty what do you think about this um I don't know I struggle it's it's hard to balance all this stuff I mean we got to take into account this is why this is why class balance is my it's my toughest topic to talk about um especially in this game because you've got PVE you've got PVP so you got to take all that into account um and and we talked about it earlier um I already forget what ability that was or we're talking about toggles I mean so we identified that before so maybe this is one of those things where it didn't get identified um maybe tone down the numbers not just make it completely shitty um but it right now it's completely like it's don't don't even use it in PvP I tried it I mean it was nice but I felt like I felt like my fights became entirely about managing that that ability and keeping that ability on um so it's it's just not it's just not that great honestly it's actually op but only on one particular build which is the the heavy Attack One Shot DK build it's actually really op because those heavy attacks were hitting for 35k on players wreck and blow no no even in this patch C just very very particular builds like the St DK can run this for ganking even a magic DK using a deathro could possibly get some really heavy shots in but it's just very particular and just applies to just one play style um okay but we also have to this this the other thing that makes it tough when we talk about this stuff is we also have to to keep in mind that we want each class to have an identity yeah so does it I mean well we don't want an ex a cute like that but maybe a damage Buff when you get your opponent below a certain amount of Health something like that like like a passive or something it's just yeah you got to do it some way where it's not it's not identical so I don't know it's tough last ability on DK before we move on to the next class um we've been taking a really long time with the DK but I mean it's about like an hour with the DK and then I don't know what we're going to do with the other classes how we're going to fit them in but uh DK seems to be the most heavily discussed class right now outside of knif Blade being too powerful in certain situations ashcloud ashcloud used to be another aspect of the DK that was really really good to remain tanky and now the DK has to actually go outside of their class SK line to receive Dodge chance and I think that's something that should be reverted um just ask I they can't revert it though because the only reason they took those abilities out blinding flashes and cinderstorm was because of the major and minor Buffs there's only one Dodge chance bonus in the game well there there should be a debuff to your I mean right okay so right now there is no such thing as a major uh or like a debuff that what was it called a debuff that makes your opponent Miss more blind a blind yeah there's no major blind in the game and I think that's something that should come back to the game you should have the ability to to debuff your opponent's chance at hitting you um yeah you have a situation where you got you you know you blind someone for 20% and you also have 20% Dodge and you know misses will happen all over the place but um maybe even just giving it to the DK class and Templar class CL will go a long way because they were pretty much the only class that had something like that I know night blade had blur but blur was reworked to be better anyways uh I think dks and Templars you know since they don't have Mobility they should be the classes that can debuff you know an opponent's chance of hitting them 20% there should be a there should be a major blind that dks have and a major blind that Templars have and I think I know we might not be able to talk about tempar today but I think like an ability like blazing Shields should apply you know major blind to the people that are around you who get hit by it or something like that or yeah but would that stack with major evasion because if it Stacks with major evasion you get a 40% Dodge what I'm saying is what I'm saying is dks and Templars should have that option to have that just be majorization that's what I'm saying are you trying to say that that should stack with major r% Okay so so I mean I honestly I think it should but I mean people might might not agree with me um because dks just don't have a survivability to stand there anymore and and here's the thing that will make dks overpowered in one-on-one situations if they have 20% all situations not just because because it comes down to survivability you're not killing anyone if if they're missing all their attacks on you not all their attacks but 40% of their attacks but a nightl can just cloak and and they'll be gone or a a a sorcerer can just Shield they don't even have to have Dodge chance their Shields will will be giving you a lot more you know uh but those are those are all abilities that have to be activated you have to activate cloak and then you have to stay in Cloak to survive you have you have to be standing inside the ashcloud to be BL that's what I'm saying if you're standing inside the ashcloud the Dodge chance is still is still passive so say you run the the ashcloud along with elusive mist and you got a 40% Dodge chance and you pop reflective scales your reflecting attacks you literally become op back in the day DK again or op back in the day Templar when blazing Shield was op like that would just give them too way too much of an advantage in outnumber situations and and one V ones oh call it a call it a day because if you got 40% die chance and I'm trying to proc a frag and I miss you with that Crystal fragment I'm just going to jump out the window cuz okay cuz I already have a hard time hitting dks with Crystal fragment let alone giving them 40% Dodge chance oh God that be ridiculous so so you think ashcloud I mean I mean I would I would be okay with with either one ashcloud should have just 20% Dodge chance instead of having to go like because as as a magic a DK having to use Shuffle to get your Dodge chance is kind of can't do it you can't do it I can I can agree with that and I I would even say up Ash glow back to 30% do chance okay well here's the thing it should be 30% it should be 30% uh and that's St it should just be it just it should just be a unique major evasion that doesn't stack with the other evasion but it should be 30% and the uh the the stam regen from from Green Dragon Blood should be a unique 30% Stam regen that doesn't stack with other things but that that that goes into the major and minor you know system that they applied it kind of just doesn't work with certain abilities and they have to take it out of this I think astr should should come back with 30% Dodge chance I I agree with you I'm I'm not against okay let's Okay so we we got a poll going on in the chat because we're clearly not going to be able to cover every single class I'm going to spam it again uh ley's been spamming it but I'm going to uh I think we should we should do Nightblade or Sorcerer And then save Templar for that's I think we should save Templar we we should bring two Templar guests uh next podcast and actually have them talk about it because I haven't played Templar yet I play Templar but like I said I don't like the class and I don't do I don't do good enough like like a blab of fat or I don't play it enough like blab or you know some of these other Templars like Jack Daniels I don't play Templar enough to none of us does they even talk about it okay Templar Templar is currently winning the vote but it we we would be doing the class in Injustice if we talked about it without actually having uh some Templar guests on the podcast to give us their point of view because I know fers doesn't play Templar left play Templar play Templar I'm fairly new to it so need to it so I think honestly we should save Templar for a future class discussion um because of the fact that we don't have proper Templar representation it just it would be it' be bad for the class if we talked about it and gave our opinion on it without having some people who played Templar as their main class and know the ins and outs of it so night PL is winning in second so we're just going to go ahead and talk about the Nightblade class um and I think there's there's not as much to talk about because not every single not every single night blade ability is broken like the DK classes so we should be talking about how to Nerf night blade yeah we we'll probably be talking about how to Nerf night blade class um and I'm this I I main Nightblade and night blade is my favorite class but recently on my streams I haven't been playing the night bu class just because it's just sometimes it feels too easy I actually prefer to play my Stam DK which actually has some sort of uh degree of difficulty to play with um night blade assassination skill line I don't think okay no actually there is an ability we should we we really need to talk about Ambush teleport strike teleport strike and this this will tie into not just Ambush but all G closers but teleport strike is the biggest offender for this uh I don't know if you guys have this problem but sometimes you know you'll be you know trying to move out of a situation and you'll get this one night blade who who has Ambush slotted on all six of their ability slots they have it slotted on ambush as their ultimate as well um and they are just ambushing into you over and over and over and the thing is it's not even for DPS purposes they know what they're doing you know what they're doing they're abusing the system with cap closes stop you from from hiding them away from their Zerg move you can't move yeah they're just trying to they're trying to slow you down to allow the Zerg to catch up to you um and of course every single Gap closer has that little half a second stun route attached to it I know they have that in for a reason I I remember they said that it was so that you know if one player was trying to get from point A to point B and you know the player at point B moved out of the way the little half a second you know stun would allow the player to catch up to them before they start moving again um that causes a lot of issues because let's just say you have you know retreating Maneuvers up which is supposed to give you stun and snare immunity not stun it's supposed to give you root and snare immunity but if you have if you have retreating Maneuvers up and you you have 100% snare and root immunity someone can keep you in place with Ambush spam by just you know ambushing the ambushing into you and the reason why Ambush is the biggest offender is I think it's the only Gap closer or one of the only Gap closes that doesn't have uh a minimum distance required to Ambush does anyone know every other gap closer has a minimum distance right uh yeah you're 100% right you cannot crck rush into somebody that is standing next to you uh leap is also the same way but that's I mean here I mean Ambush no Ambush is fine though with that I'm 100% fine well I'm fine with Ambush not having a minimum distance but I mean the reason the reason it's an issue right now is because because of the snare slash root that is applied you can spam ambush from Point Blank Range and keep someone in place uh the entire time even if they have imunity um I was going to say we didn't talk about this when it when it came to LEAP but leap is like the only targeted ultimate or the only target ability in the game that you can dodge by walking out of the way I know I mean we didn't really talk about it but like say you're leaping from a really really long distance onto someone if they walk away before you land they'll actually avoid your damage like they don't have to dodge roll or or you know they don't have to dodge roll out of the way they can just literally walk out of the way and you'll leap on to where they were initially and they won't take any damage so but that's just that's a discussion in itself Ambush Ambush has a problem it's not an overpowered ability but because of the fact that when you when you Gap close someone they get snared for half a second uh rooted whatever it is uh a lot of players will start spamming Ambush to keep you in place and not allow you to move Lefty um I don't know I don't I don't really I don't know if I'm if I'm really qualified much to comment on night blade because it's the one class that I really have never played the only thing I know about Nightblade um is from fighting them and the Ambush bam is just annoying to me it's not like I don't think it's from having never played one I don't think it needs to be changed so but I think you can probably just ignore everything I just said because I don't know okay so comment on the okay so here's the thing in my opinion Ambush and motus fan aren't overpowered uh as far as Gap closes go they're a strong Gap closer they're probably one of the strongest Gap closers but comment on the the root and stun that is applied when someone Gap closes into you regardless of your immunity well regardless of the Gap closer too because that happens with every Gap closer yeah that's that's a problem that's needed to be fixed since beta well that's a widely known problem and it's just it's just a little worse with Ambush because you get the little stun too or the roof sorry there's a couple things though there's a couple things Ambush gives an immobilized Lotus fan gives a snare so there's like two different things like when whenever you run into a magic night blade if they're hitting you with lotus fan CH you're rooted and snared consistently so it's it's kind of op especially Lotus fan I hate Lotus fan more than Ambush but they both do the same thing they both stop you from moving but Lotus fan stops you from moving and immobilize and uh gives you uh a snare fers you have anything to say regarding whether I mean we're talking Ambush right now but it's more about the effects of Gap Clos I'm 100% qualified to speak on this one go ahead this is one of the worst things in the game um because I rely on mobility and this thing is just a joke uh Ambush is the worst Defender and then conversely if someone crit rushes you while you're sprinting you'll see you get Frozen for a second you can just roll and Dodge it so you can actually Dodge crit Rush on one end and then Ambush you can't Dodge Ambush just locks you down and you said before CER these these guys know what they're doing uh no they most of them don't 95% of them don't cuz if you catch them one V one they're still spamming ambush in your face they don't know what's going on they're just pounding that key down and hoping for the best and they don't even know how annoying it is like if I go into like a 1v4 I see like a Templar healer you know a DK a magic A and A night blade I drop my old on the night blade and I give him everything I got cuz nine out of 10 times he's going to be spamming Ambush on me throughout the fight and I need to get rid of him it's more important to get rid of that than it is to get rid of the Healer it's because of the mechanic is broken it's so broken and it's terrible with Ambush because they're standing on top of you right in your face and they're just hammering it over and over and over right in your face and um this is awful it's one of the worst combat things in PvP for me I rely on mymobility so like you may not see it as much Lefty like I go into a group 1 v20 and I'm happy to do what I can because I do have Mobility that's my strong suit as a stams and I can't get away sometimes because of Ambush and Ambush specifically because Ambush another problem with it Beyond just the Gap closed portion is it just doesn't have the same line of sight checks every other gap closer has you will go around corners you'll go through boxes you'll go through trees it doesn't matter what it is it just sticks with you and they can keep spamming it it's so idiot friendly that it really needs to be looked at from the line of sight check portion just Ambush specifically to operate like other gap closers do but then the whole Gap closer issue is just terrible that's something that all Gap closers need to be looked at and addressed because it's like you said this this was a fix because Gap closers were missing their targets so they put in like a a Target box that you would travel to and it stuns the guy so you actually get get there I mean this is just it's a bad solution Y and it I I honestly have no faith it'll ever be fixed I I really don't because stuff like this impacts players like us and and I just don't see the interest to get it fixed but it really should be it's one of the worst things hands down for me in PvP uh some people just to clarify Fang Rush when he was saying that you can't Dodge roll uh Ambush he means in a situation where you are uh trying to get from point A to point B and someone crit charges you from behind you can you can see the crit charge coming so you can dodge it but Ambush it'll just it'll happen and if you don't know that they're there you have no chance to to dodge the uh the Gap closer uh but I mean again the reason why I think Ambush is annoying isn't because of the actual ability itself but because of the just because of the little root and and uh snare that applies to you if someone is behind you spamming Ambush you actually can't phys physically turn around and look at them you would have to actually cast an ability that forces you to turn around and look at them or you would have to dodge roll to turn around and look at them that's an issue that's an issue and that happens with all Gap closers but it only happens with Ambush in that situation because Ambush doesn't have a minimum uh distance and I don't think it should have a minimum distance I just think that they need to rework the way Gap closers work in general they shouldn't really root you or snare you just so that you know a player that's gap closing you can get to you uh because I mean if you pop retreating Maneuvers and you have snare and root immunity and then someone's spamming ambushing at you you you're basically snared you're basically rooted it's it's worse you can't even turn around you can't do anything it's more than just a like a stun or snare like you have CC immunity and it's mini stunning and silencing you yeah it actually breaks your character like what you're able to do it is so messed up and when you get two or three cuz I've run into groups of 20 and I have two or three of these night blades latch on to me you're you're just done it's like you're in a stasis like you just can't do anything there's nowhere to go there's no option not to mention um if if that night blade knows what he's doing and you get hit with like multiple abilities and then they Ambush and fear you you're not able to CC break it for like 3 seconds because you get the stun from Ambush and then you get the yeah the CC stacking and you just can't CC break it and it's it's broken yeah okay so uh that's the ability we're going to talk about when it comes to assassination skill line uh Shadow Skill line uh honestly like I think dark cloak right now is in a good state in comparison to previous uh patches um does anyone have anything to comment about dark cloak if not we're going to talk about vild strike yeah if they make dark cloak work any better than it already does I'm quitting the game cuz dark cloak is op I agree completely agree I think dark cloak does way too many different things um it it drops you from combat um you know it drops that line of sight that people have on you it purges all of the dots off of you which as a DK makes me pretty salty and it also gives you the stealth bonus when you um are coming out of stealth you do more damage it's just outrageous does so many different things it's like and you can get a stun with surprise attack yeah dot Hunter procs off of it it's like come on yep yeah way too many different things I think they need to take at least one of those things off I would be happy even if it was just uh take the purging off or something anything take the the stealth bonuses from it or something because the fact that it gives you the mobility and all those other things is just crazy to me hey cyer did you move synthesis in here yeah yeah I'm going to let him chime in at the end of the uh the night conversation he has something he wants to say um I feel like he has a lot more to offer than I do personally that's all cloak honestly like right now cloak is strong but it should be strong but it still has it counters I I think cloak is in a good position it shouldn't be buffed it shouldn't be nerfed um personally on all my classes that I play right now I mean the three classes that I play uh I never have an issue when I run into a Nightblade cloaking occasionally I'll get a Nightblade who cloaks away from me but if they're cloaking to stay in the fight it's never an issue like I'll have either detect pots AOE Mark Target Cal trops there's a lot of counters you know that you can you can work around it so I think what about from a Magicka point of view what kind of counters do Magicka builds have well okay for so okay on a sorcerer you don't you won't have any issues you can keep curse up on them on a Magicka night blade I mark them uh on a Maga DK magic DK you have a bit of an issue like you Talent run around AOE in the air yeah I mean that's one option but the thing is I don't even play Magic DK anymore so I I mean I haven't even had to worry about that magika Templar um magic Templar is a little bit different I haven't played it but I know going against a Templar uh toppling charge is unblockable uh I don't know if it's unclo but like that's just an issue that I have against Templars in general when I'm using a class that like when I'm using the night blade class if I'm going against a Templar and I dodge roll and they hit me with topling charge it's basically suicide at that point you you can't see see immediately because there just a bit of a stun and then you're on the floor while they're hitting you with jab I don't know what's wrong with top Ling charge I don't is it intended to be undodgeable it's the only Gap closer that's not dodgeable so I I don't know but that's that's for a future discussion um I I personally don't really have a big problem with cloak right now when a night bid runs away from you they're running away but if they say to fight I really don't have a problem with cloak um veiled strike surprise attack um lot of talk about surprise deck does anyone want to comment regarding this what is it uh I think surprise attack is fine uh surprise attack is fine it's just it's just night blads they have a lot of different things that just stack on top of each other and it makes it seem a little bit stronger than it is my issue with surprise attack is when you get ambushed into a fair you're going to take a surprise attack and a light attack before you can CC break that's my only issue but other than that I think surprise attack is perfectly fine just does so much damage and then with the champion points also not having any any kind of um reduced physical damage surprise attack is usually what's on my death recap it's usually like five night blades ambushes surprise attacks um I'd like to see some of the other single Target abilities from the other classes be anywhere comparable to the damage that surprise attack can do but I I don't know if I see that happening well all right so as a sorcerer I mean night blad it got surprise attack which is one ability that can be spammed and animation cancell as instacast DPS which is good but as a magic of sorcerer I run a setup that can hit you with four surprise attacks technically five if time correctly at the same time so I think it's just a class uniqueness to night blades they have surprise attack that's that's their main DPS they're considered a DPS class which is why they have that ability and as a sorcerer on the other hand you can do the same thing and it's honestly I I kind of sometimes I think sorcerer is worse because I sometimes I look at my skills I got endless Fury if that executes that's 9k I I have have magic adet right now my to tip is tool tip is 13k I have Crystal fragment that's a 13k unbuffed tool tip I have curse that's a 9k tool tip and then I have Dawn Breer which is another 10K tool tip like that's over 60k in damage if it crits that I can hit you with at the same time so I can't really complain too much about surprise attack doing 7K per surprise attack that's why I put magic Sor is number one on my list right there I don't see surprise attacks hitting for 7K I hit them I hitting for like 11k most of the yeah on players possible it's possible but you got to give up a lot of sustain to achieve those numbers like i' like I've I've gone against snip blades who achieve those numbers and they have like 600 700 800 they're ganking that's basically they're just gankers and gankers can hit hard with just about anything uh I mean you can get your your weapon damage to 6K and keep your your uh Stam regen at 2K without problem I mean it's it's way more possible on a BL you put that on players that are are really good at their classes and that can really handle their animations well which isn't a large majority of the people but there are people that do it on night blade they're devastating they just crush me before I have time to react and I know it was coming I knew exactly it was coming but it just doesn't matter sometimes it's pretty brutal yeah I know I know somebody some people they have those hard-hitting night blade bills that hit really hard like that um but you got to you like you said you got to sacrifice a lot of Stam regen Max stamina Health you got to sacrifice a lot to pull those numbers off and usually when I fight those kind of builds they can't really keep up with me they can't sustain they I'm saying right now they can't sustain they can't sustain if you can take their burst then you win the fight yeah exactly it's it's it's it's a it's a gank build that can achieve that and gank builds even with 2K region they can't say now of course in the hands of a great player uh you can create sustain without actually having sustain in your stats by animation cancelling by controlling when you dodge when you do this and that but that's okay so here's here's the thing the way I see it is surprise attack is fine but the problem is uh it's too easy as a stamina build to get you damage really really high it compar to Magic AB builds so when you compare surprise attack to concealed weapon surprise attack is very strong concealed weapon is very weak because it's hard there's no physical resistance in the champion tree there's another thing I've been looking into um and I did this on a pts lately because I felt the same way I felt like Magicka was harder to scale up as far as damage is concerned uh when you compare it to stamina and I went on the pts and I did some testing and I had my cassill weapon I had the same region same spell damage you know same Max actually had more max Magi so my Cil weapon tool tip was actually harder than my surprise attack now here here's the thing my surprise attack was doing less damage on the actual player when I did the testing However the fact that um as a stamina build you actually can light and heavy attack with your surprise attack that actually took the damage higher so that's another thing that they got to take into account because unless you run a Destro staff as a magic AB build you're not going to be able to keep up with surprise attack because what really put surprise attack at the top of the Lista incast DPS is the fact that it could be animation cancelled so if you toss in a light or a heavy medium attack you get that added damage over top of it and that's something I can't do on my magic uh nightly because it's running dual wi my light attack is hit for like 1K and then the light attack on the stamina build is hitting for like five to 6K and that's just a light attack I'm just putting on the screen uh juules said that uh you know you could achieve 6K weapon damage basically with still having over 2K region people are like people were like what is she talking about it's possible guys with the new sets moina proper gear you can get stuff like this now of course this is this is with mikina proc I don't know if it's with ravager is this with ravager I'm I'm not sure but I think entitled to disclose his build but I think it's Essence Steve agility all weapon damage Molag Kina um dual will probably um I'm not sure this this is by this is this is one of my very yeah this is one of my very good friends he's a very good night blade and he's an incredible Theory crafter so he came up with this build on his own but I think that's actually on a stamina Sor though right this is Stam night blade this is stamina night blade this is a vampire stamina night blade this is in Cloak by the way so it has 10% uh this this is basically with all the Buffs possible this is only while you're invisible yeah I I can see him getting 5K cuz I hit 5K on TS with my stamps and I wasn't even in stealth but I can see that happening but those numbers aren't like that's not what he's going to hit you with because he has he has to proc Molina to get that high well yeah he he has to proc Molina that's one aspect you also have to be invisible 2400 regen you could passive like did he just cap a resource or something to get that Regen to I think he might have C A resources I I mean this is this is fully buffed if it could I don't think it can go higher than so I assume I I'm assuming that this is with the uh PVP passive that gives you near keep near keep the PVP passive um right but these things of course it's not going to always be this High the point was that it is able to be achieved to be this High okay well I mean that go look that topic though doesn't apply to surprise attack even it's just surprise attack is one of the strongest single Target I mean if you got that those stats you hit somebody with a rans sack it's going to do like onek less than a surprise attack yeah but the thing is the thing is is surprise attack overpowered or is it just very easy to stack damage and and and stamina surprise attack is 100% fine I think the real issue Bo like like for instance me and Cypher almost got One VX in a 2v2 tournament by a night Blade with a lot of champion points and the reason why we almost got One VX is because we could not Dodge his Ambush surprise attack he would Ambush into us before we can Dodge or do anything we were already taking the damage from a surprise attack and that is that's the bigger issue I and we just talked about Ambush and fears and whatnot I think it's a lot of CC issues and a surprise attack though it can be it can be animation cancelled for one and it's instacast that's an issue because I don't have anything on my magic of sort that can I I cannot land it unless I hit you with a rune cage and then I throw a crystal fragment but that's about it that's about it surpr attack is like ambush in you get a 20% weapon damage bonus or damage increase and then you launch the surprise attack right afterwards surprise attack in itself is fine but the Ambush and the CCS from night blades are ridiculous and you cannot Dodge roll it you can't get out of it there's a late break on fear too like I had the same issue I knew what was coming in that in that tournament King I knew they were going to come at me I even put up that stupid ass Mage Light and like I I did everything I could to brace the impact from that guy and um again like I said has has the burst that he can just come jump in um unload and just be out and still have good sustain too cuz that guy had really good sustain as well like he wasn't just he wasn't sacrificing all sustain for damage wasn't even close I'm going to I want to comment regarding regarding that in particular um now regarding the damage regarding the stat Ing and all that stuff uh when it comes to surprise attack with Ambush uh I don't know if you guys know this but if you cloak and then Ambush into someone you actually won't be removed from cloak you will remain in Cloak after you Ambush someone so people typically don't know this because when someone ambushes into someone out of cloak they usually follow follow it up with something right so you cloak up you Ambush you surprise attack or you Ambush you you Soul Harvest Right but try this if you're on your if you're on your night blade right now or if you're going to get on your night blade later cloak up Ambush into someone and and you'll realize that you've not been pulled out of cloak you can actually you can actually cloak again and the person will have taken an ambush hit and they won't even see you so what happens in that situation is this synergizes with surprise attack surprise attack stuns your opponent uh if you hit them out of cloak so if the night blade is uh added distance from you they cloak up they Ambush it towards you you're still going to be in Cloak and then when they hit you with a surprise attack they stun you because they hit you out of cloaks now they they landed two hits while in Cloak um while while stealth and um I I wish I had my game open right now to to show you guys I might actually get that running while you guys talk about it but um yeah you can Ambush into someone not be pulled out of stealth and then surprise attack them to stun them so you get those two hits while in stealth you get the full uh the full damage while in stealth yeah you can actually cloak Ambush Light attack surprise attack get the stun and then light attack surprise attack before the person can c c break it's like five abilities hitting you before you can even stop it from hitting you okay so to be fair I think that um the one thing that Stam night blades don't have is the reliable heals other than like Viger and rally so they are squishier so I don't really have a problem with the amount of damage that they can pull mean STK STK also doesn't have reliable healing but that's the thing though Vigor and Raleigh are more than reliable at this point like Vigor and Raleigh are are basically and if you have enough Champion points in a blast yeah I mean they they heal for a good amount I just think that Stam night blades are kind of sish all right so listen you got to look at it like this you got to look at it like this and this is my best way to explain it cuz I play Sorcerer And A lot of people give me you know crap for playing a class that Stacks damage Shields and they say hey you got a 15K damage Shield stack I'm like okay you're right to a certain extent right but however people with like 3K weapon damage their Vigor is about 12K just for the Vigor that's a 12K heal over 5 seconds so that basically translates into a 12K damage shill because you're going to mitigate 12K damage from the healing then on top of that you get healing ticks from Raleigh and then you can activate a burst heal from Raleigh which I've seen on if you have at least 3K weapon damage it'll heal you for 9 to 15K um healing so those heals are more than viable like they're actually over the top kind of broken at this point because of how much you get healed at this point because it it scals with weapon damage and stamina a build like the build we just seen on the screen with 6K weapon damage that means his heal is going to be double with somebody with you know regular stats I mean Viger and rally I mean like you said they're just Vigor and rally are viable healing options it's not like a secondary healing option they're just completely viable um to the point where they compete with even Magicka heals like they Vigor and rally they're both better than Green Dragon blood in my opinion um of course the Templar heo is still going to be the strongest but as far as heals go uh Vigor and rally like they will compete they will be able to pop someone from you know low Health to full health relatively quickly you have healing Ward you have the you have the Resto skill line and I I I'm challenging you guys on this I think Vigor and rally versus healing Ward I mean by the time the healing Ward you know actually goes off the 6 seconds the Vigor and rally will pretty much get you back up to full like it's it's about the same in my opinion Magic versus stamina comparison it's about the same um I'm actually opening up the game right now just so I can show you guys uh this regarding the Ambush but as far as the class goes we talked about concealed we also talked about weapon damage versus Maga stacking um there's fear fear is a very strong CC probably the strongest CC in the game um the only issues that arise from fear is the delay when it comes to actually CC breaking you guys want to talk about that you guys want to talk about fear or should we move into the siphoning skill line I think it's gotten better with this patch I don't it's gotten better like I haven't found myself getting we're we're not getting fared into the ground anymore so yeah yeah POS but I do still see uh like delays on fear breaks from time to time yeah uh it's not just fear that's any CC any CC yeah a lot of CC's will sometimes occasionally have somewhat of delay I think fear does it more though because Ambush a lot of people Ambush into their Affairs and that's a when you stack CC's it kind of bugs it out siphoning skill line uh the main one that sticks out over here is Agony uh Richard do you want to talk about Agony first Agony is it all depends it's just like for a magic night blade it's it's kind of good it's just I don't think it should give you the CC immunity after you know hitting somebody I think it should just be a straight up Dot and they should remove the disorient cuz night plays don't need a disorient um to be honest they have fear so they really don't need to disorient okay uh does anyone want to comment on Agony I know not everyone in here plays Nightblade uh fush you don't play night blade Lefty doesn't play Jules do you play night blade I have a night blade but I don't okay play that much all right um honestly besides that there's not that much to talk about night blades do definitely need to be toned down in certain aspects but then also we have things outside of the actual class that make it even stronger the ability to stack weapon damage and Stam region over other things uh you know the resistances of medium armor versus light armor yeah the go Point um of champing Point reduction on physical damage exactly I'd really like to hear what was zthis has to say I don't know what your plan for the agenda is Cypher but I'm just yeah I actually bring zthis in here so we can at the end of the night discussion I want him to go through and just give his before we move on from night blade yeah we're not going to talk about another class we're going to finish with Genesis regarding night blade class and then we're going to talk about the arena and then we'll conclude the uh with the Q&A synthesis I'm going to let you take the floor right now all right um I'm synthesis I've been playing this game since uh pretty much launch been playing a MAG of night blade ever since um I just I like the class I like the way it played I like that it took skill when the game first came out there were a lot of ganking night blades but I didn't like that play style so I played a matcha night blade and um cloak cloak was never as op as it is now you can Perma cloak now and and they're they're yeah sure they're putting in plants to fix that but that's that's an issue back in the old days a lot of night blades weren't running cloak because it broke to literally everything light attacks heavy attacks anything if if a if a DK sneezed on you you were out of cloak and you were dead all right so as time went on they started fixing cloak and now it's it it got really good and then in 1.4 1.5 you had a really you had a really solid night blade where if I was standing in front of someone cloaking they would they they could break me out of cloak right if someone was light attacking or something trying using a skill it would break cloak but now in this patch 1.6 1.7 I can be standing in front of you kissing you on your cheek and cloaking that's a problem right I admit that's a problem if anybody seen any of my videos anybody knows how I do I can cloak at any time I want and that's that's just an issue with cloak all right so I see why people are irritated by that the problem though is not that a cloak is actually working now the problem is that people can perac cloak all right and how do you fix that is you bring back you bring back soft caps all right and that'll fix not just not just night blades cloaking all the time it'll fix night blades running 6K weapon damage and two shot on people it'll fix people running all kinds of crazy builds you bring back these soft caps and you bring back the old stats and the old stats anybody that wasn't playing 1 you guys missed out on like literally the best PVP the game this game has ever had like it was amazing all you had like 100 like 30k Health imagine okay with most people most St builds are running 2.5k Stam regen with 3K weapon damage unbuffed right back in the old days it was it imagine it being 1.3k uh Stam regen and 1 uh 1.3k uh weapon damage that's what it was back then and people were like dang how are how are stand build supposed to hit hard now and it's like well that's what Stan builds used to be he used to be a skilled player like I don't know if anybody knows about velcon but that guy is literally probably the best Stam night blade in in this game and people can can try and you know say that it's not true but he was running Stam night blade when Stam night blade wasn't even a thing all right and he wrecked people with it he wrecked he took on zergs he was absolutely insane and this was with soft caps so the game the game needs to go back to soft caps that won't just fix night blades though that will fix that will fix Sorcerers a sorcerer should not be able to run should not be able to run 40K Max Magicka and get you know 14 or or run you know 14k uh Harden Wards in a patch where your Harden Ward is supposed to be cut in half so we're talking about a 24 a 28k Harden ward in PVE you're telling me that's not broken that's broken there there there's so many things that ex zust needs to re go back and look hey what was what do we have with 1.5 cuz that's that's where that's where they need to go back to is Bring Back soft caps lead the champion system I think the Champion system is a good idea um maybe some balancing things here and there but I think overall it's a good idea so just bring back those soft casts and you'll see a lot of issues fixed with night blades with Sorcerers with Templars and dks and I also think this one more thing about altig gen because with dks I don't think that we should go back to Dynamic Alti the way it was uh I just came up with this you know earlier was instead of having TIG gen only be generated by light attacks have it be generated by damage in general so if if a DK puts say eruption cinderstorm 20 feet away from them right in front of someone it will give them their altigen because right now the issue is a lot of people they're just they're only getting alt gen from light attacks and we need to bring back hey if I'm dpsing someone doesn't matter if I'm using a light attack a skill whatever I should be getting that Al gen that's not the issue with Dynamic alt though the reason why people want Dynamic alt back is because hey if I'm fighting 50 people and I hit 50 people I should gain more ultimate than them hitting me as one single person that's the reason why people ask for dynamic Alti to return to the game not because people can't regain ultimate or gain ultimate because of light attacks I don't have any issue gaining ultimate I have an issue gaining ultimate at the same speed as a zerg and that's the only reason why people complain about uh Dynamic Alti on soft caps soft caps it sounds good in theory but you got to understand something the only reason why some of these classes are even doing good is because they remove soft caps sorcerer was complete you know crap back in 1.5 why because of soft caps Sorcerers for one they don't have any instacast DPS so in a in a in a world a game world where sustain and uh constant DPS matters you eliminate certain classes like the sorcerer class it's eliminated because they're the only class that cannot put out sustained DPS all their DPS is burst that's why Sorcerers are doing so good now because they actually have the damage to pull off a burst but if you bring soft caps back you eliminate the sorcerer class yet again Richard Richard how about this how about this right okay back in back you said the issue with uh Sorcerers I've said this before was harness Maga was the only the only the only skill that was being absorbed main DPS skill was a sorcerer skill which is Crystal fragment night blades if I hit you and you use harness magika it went through right that was just an issue but now say forget all of that whatever right this patch they bring back soft caps Sorcerers still have access to inevitable inevitable detonation okay so that's that one extra that's that one extra bit of burst because it still boils down to this though if I'm fighting a class say for instance I'm fighting a magic of DK this magic of DK is on me the entire fight talins whip whip flame unstable flame fiery breath whip whip whip whip and I'm sitting there Crystal frag and then I'm 5 Seconds curse 4 seconds Crystal frag seconds inevitable debt you bash it you can't keep up in a sustained fight without sustained abilities the only reason why the sorcerer class is so good now is because they're able to do what they were meant to do in the first place which was burst DPS If you eliminate burst DPS then you eliminate the sorcerer class and then you also give people an advantage we're just talking about how good surprise attack is so now if you have sustained fights where sustained DPS matters and you got abilities like surprise attack then you just hand the game over to night blades like I'm completely against soft caps in every way shape or form and I understand why you want soft caps to come back but we got to understand like every time they do something they make a change they don't just remove one thing they removed soft caps they' changed way armor scals they removed abilities they added major minor Buffs they added the champion system so there's too many different things that go back to the old ESO guys I'm gonna I'm G to step in really quickly because now we're talking about soft caps and I think we should save that for another discussion because we're running out of time uh thank you sis for giving your opinion regarding the night blade definitely well spoken and I agree with most most of what you said as far as soft caps go I really have no opinion regarding soft caps I know the game was better when we had soft caps but will soft caps work in this meta or not like I'm just a little confused regarding that like I'm not 100% sure I just want to show something on screen really quickly I'm on my night blade right now um and regarding the Ambush cloak thing that I was talking about earlier in PVE it's actually 50/50 uh every other ambush um from my cloak will keep me in stealth after the ambush in PvP I find it a little more consistent uh to where after my ambush I stay in Cloak so I'm going to show you guys I'm going to get into cloak Ambush it's going to pull me out of cloak get into cloak again Ambush one sec you see right there I ambushed into him and I stayed in Cloak in PVE it's not as consistent but uh in PvP it's a little more consistent so I'm actually only cloaking one time after the Ambush I mean right before the Ambush and I'll stay in stealth which what allows what that allows me to do is when I go into Ambush them and I stay in stealth I can actually uh stun them with a surprise attack which is why night blades can get two hits off in stealth a lot of the times in PvP because they stay in Cloak even after the Ambush is there I'm going to show you on this Mammoth really quickly the only reason it's pulling you out of stealth Cipher is because it's adding a different effect it adds a stun onto PVE mobs and adds an well that's the thing that's the thing it it adds a stun onto PVE mobs um so in PvP it's actually 100% if you if you do it properly it's going to be 100% chance that you will stay in stealth after uh uh ambushing them the only reason it's working on every other Ambush for PVE purposes is because it stuns it stuns uh PVE mobs for two seconds so whenever it does the stun it pulls you out of cloak but if that stun it can't be applied because they're immune already uh you'll actually stay in Cloak so in a PVP environment it's actually 100% of the time if you am if you cloak up and then Ambush into an enemy player uh you will stay in Cloak you won't be pulled out so you'll be in their face while still cloaked and you can hit them with surprise attack so that's that's a bit of an issue with the stamina night blade this also applies to Magic night blade but uh Stam just generally hit harder which is why it's an issue they can get two hits off from stealth and you know that's why they they get some crazy DPS uh which is two camo Hunter procs as well and oh yeah Hunter two camo Hunter procs actually you can potentially get three if you toss light attack light attack yeah yeah just cuz you can you can light attack and surprise attack at the same time you won't be like if your animation cancel you won't be you won't get pulled out of cell so that's three camo Hunter procs potentially um if I was in PvP I would show this it would be a lot more easier to see I could actually just keep ambushing to someone while invisible and on their screen they'll just be getting hit by ambushes and they won't even they won't even they won't ever see the night blade if the if the night keeps recasting it they won't ever see the night blade there's no cool down on the stun that comes after Ambush that or whatever it is the uh the only immobilize no there's no cool down to immobilize against players there's no cool down the St applies only to PVE players this the stun only applies to PVE mobs so in in a PVP environment there's no stun so it doesn't actually pull you out so you can actually just stay in Cloak and just keep ambushing um and that's that's another reason why it takes long to CC break sometimes when you get hit with the surprise attack is because it's an ambush and then you're immobilized from the Ambush and then you're stuned surprise attack so that's it's a lot of CC stacking with night blade that gives you that delay on break and they do so much damage then you know your target is so disoriented that it's like it's usually just GG all right guys uh we're running low on time we actually just passed the 2hour Mark just right now so let's talk about the mstom arena I know this is a PVP focused podcast but I'm going to be honest with you guys I've actually spent more time in the arena than actually pvping I know that's true for Richard as well and I think fush um Jules you still haven't ran the arena Lefty you still haven't ran the Arena but let's talk about from what we've seen play cuz you guys play DK well that's not my reason I mean people have their reasons but I know for a fact that there's what five or six0 dks that completed the arena so far on the na server compared to the 40 sorcs 30 night blades and 20 Templars I don't know that's that's definitely but indicative of what's going on even in just in PVE even in PVE for solo play um let's talk about the actual Arena itself though forget class balance forget everything else let's talk about the arena cuz this arena is probably my first you know footing into actual PVE content that I enjoyed I'm going to say it I actually enjoy the arena but I can't really pull my I mean I can put my fingers on two things regarding or three things why I enjoy the arena first of all PVP right now during prime time is just not enjoyable the Ping is high there's a lot of zergs I can't play effectively as a solo player because of the FPS drops the Ping so when I go to the arena I don't have to really worry about that that's one thing PVP being in a low not so good area is making the arena for me a little more appealing on top of that I'm finally gearing up properly honestly I'm I'm actually getting some decent gear out of the Arena I got two daggers so far and um two melstrom daggers I got a melor Resto I almost have a full jewelry set of the huntet and then oppression set um is it oppression or is it suppression what was the set the suppression suppression set so like I'm getting geared very quickly I've ran the arena three or four times only and I've received so much gear and XP from it and it just it makes me realize just how much reward how much reward you get for playing PVE content compared to PVP content uh and we go back to the to the idea that you know they didn't give us V16 Mor Tong or Shadow Walker or or Hawkeye because because they want us to actually get the gear from the new DLC content I mean I get that that's a business decision but I mean it there's such a huge difference when it comes to actually doing PVE content like you get rewarded so much you get so much xp you get a lot of gear I mean I'm having fun don't get me wrong I'm actually having fun doing the arena surprising because it's PVE but just it opens my eyes to the the difference when it comes to rewarding players to do PVE PVE and PVP uh hey cyer real quick I'm I got to restart my computer dude lot trouble so I'll be I'll be right back guys all right that might mess up their cameras but that's fine I'll rework it I'll I'll re sorry I'll rework it um go ahead Fang rush I know you spent a lot of time in the pts as well uh with the arena sure um yeah I spent a good amount of time on the pts not not too much just getting a handle on the stages I've completed it probably about 20 times now um I played as a Stam and it's much different it's probably one of the big topics to talk about it's all over the forums too there's class and balances but then there's also Stam verse Magicka um I know we'll get to that so I'm not sure if you're just looking for the overall thing we're just looking for just the actual Arena itself not the class difference not the uh you know stand versus magic just the actual Arena the gameplay you're getting out of the Arena the rewards and all that stuff um there well okay there is not a single set in there I'm interested in even remotely um that's kind of upsetting the only set in orsinium is brart and it doesn't even drop in there it's one of the best sets clearly um for Stam and it doesn't even drop in there so I'm pretty disappointed in that user disconnected from your CH Channel that's a pretty notable thing to say because the other Stam sets are so so specific in their use it's like oh maybe I'd want that set if I ran this kind of guy on this class doing this in this scenario it's it's so specific um most of the stuff in Imperial City would either be better or just crafted sets so nothing in there is really an upgrade other than the malstrom weapons which I'm trying to get which you only get from the last stages but overall the arena the challenge is Fun the buggy mechanics are not um I know everybody struggles with some issues to some degree um so yeah I get punished more I think than that than than some others on some of those issues uh but yeah I'm I'm right there with you cypher I'm in there because up until this patch I I PvP in the sewers because I can't handle sidel's lag like when the performance drops and I start dying you know in like 1 to 10 1 to 15 plus odds while my FPS tanks like it's so discouraging man like I can't it's really hard to log in to do that and a lot of people that aren't in those big groups are dipping so this is a good alternative for now it's not a permanent one um you know the arena is kind of cool I yeah do you know where brart drops some uh quests or something or or the world bosses I don't even know the world boss dailies okay yeah I I I mean I'm probably not even going to run it I'm not sure we'll see bosses are actually pretty fun they're a lot more challenging than the ones in the other uh like uh I can't even think of the word so you have do you have to do the daes to get heart you have to you have to do the daes to get the Bri heart GE I don't know if that's the only place they drop I just know that I've gotten two pieces from the world BS dailies just within the last two days so they drop pretty pretty frequently too A lot of them are dropping in like v15 which is weird but as a V6 player you get v15 why yeah I don't know well how do I think there's a way to get the V16 you have to do something specific not that was told to me I don't know it it's weird because sometimes it'll drop in V16 and sometimes it'll drop in V16 just I also don't know what the rewards are for melstrom either you know they talked about you know the rewards the same way as Dragon Star or anything else I don't know if anybody knows what the rewards are going to be if it's just like they send me a girdle of Glory or something in the mail then it's going to suck it's probably what it's going to be wait they send rewards for that I think so for the leaderboards if they don't I don't even know what the point of them is other than when does the leader boards reset well they're resetting on Monday right because of the uh stamina book yeah they're wiping away everyone's progress for the bug which I'm also not happy about what are you going to do are they going to give us rewards for it no cuz some people went no no I think they are though are they not are they not going to just send out reward assume not I saw a post by Jeanie said there's a bug we're aware of it so we're going to reset the leaderboards so my assumption would be everyone gets punished cuz some people went in there rather than going in there and finding people using it and saying hey we're going to make an example of them they're just going to wipe everybody's scores which is unfortunate cuz a lot of people some people in there can't complete compl it very easily some people don't get a lot of time to go in there and do it some people spend a lot of time just to complete it and get some chump score just to get on the leaderboard like look at the dks four of them have under a thousand those guys probably were chugging glyphs every round and just spent like 10 hours in there trying to get through and they did I'm having flashbacks man I'm having flashbacks my first score was like 375 no I know but imagine you don't have much time and you're like I did it though and I don't want to go do it again until another time for reward but those guys are going to be like hey tough you know there's there's three or four guys that that maybe use the exploit so uh you know just take one for the team here I'm I'm trying to keep this PC so it took me it took me nine hours to complete it the first run this is like my first attempt ever and then after that the Second Run 2 hours 44 minutes then 230 and then today I ran it and I finished it in Just 2 hours flat so definitely the more you run it the easier it gets I saw someone posting on the Forum saying like uh zenax like Pro Player Cipher is struggling with you know the arena how do you expect us to finish and I'm like I don't do PVE man and it's just like it's actually I like the challenge I don't want the arena to get nerfed I want it to stay the same way of course there are some mechanics that are a little buggy in the arena that cost you some deaths I've seen the frustration in Richard I've seen the frustration in Fang Rush my own frustration from the Arena from small things that cause you to die but I think just overall as far as challenge goes I like the challenge the the arena brings as far as gear it's very specific like I I I get where you're coming from frush none none of the gear in the arena really interests you there's actually a lot of gear that interest me but it's just we play different styles we play different builds so obviously like if something's catered specific like for example you're talking about the uh the pet Set uh the the hunt set that gives you you know stamina and health back if your pet attacks someone you recently attacked like that's specifically for St night blade I'm I'm really excited about that set but I can see why like if anyone else if I was on any other class and I got that set piece I'd be like why like this doesn't apply to me in any way like how am I supposed to get a pet on a DK and and a stamina sorcerer running pets is is you know free AP as far as as far as I know so the gear could definitely be more diverse I want to see Bri har thrown into the the arena to be honest with you I I know why it isn't is there any general set take um take the glorified set and put that at World bosses and give us brart if anything the huntet needs to be taken out and putting put into World bosses because it's more specific so people who really want that set will go do specific things but the arena should have most of the general sets in it if you look if you look at Imperial City sets they were very broad you know like if you're a heavy it's it it was geared to whatever it was so if you're a medium here some general medium medium five piece bonus whether it was some amp and damage you know a heavy set that did um some kind of tanking ability like add a shield but these are really really specific sets and I don't mind them being in the game but that's really that's all all that's in there and I'm I'm just saying like a majority of people that go through here aren't interested in the sets they're interested in the master weapons I find that weird I don't really care it it doesn't make or break me but it just seems very strange that they would do that and Bri heart's one of those ones that it says here's a stamina set it doesn't have any kind of specific thing like a pet or an ice an effect if you use an ice skill or something it is a general stamina set and there's just not that in there again I'm there for the master weapons I'm really there to have fun do the challenge before it gets nerfed because I know it will get nerfed I'm I'm positive on that I mean they nerfed Imperial City coming into this patch if that's any sign of how things are going to be that's what's going to happen like as much as I said white gold Tower was very fun when it came out don't Nerf it a week later it was nerfed and it didn't really need to be it was easier as a group than this is as a solo player so in a within the next month I I 100% guarantee you and we bet any amount of money you're going to see a zenmax guy post on the forums we've reviewed the data and and you know it the data tells us we need to Nerf it basically and what they really need to do is is fix some of the mechanics absolutely absolutely that's not what's stopping a lot of people a lot of people are just struggling with it and it does take it's it's a mechanics Arena it really is like it it really tests you and it pushes you but um they're they're going to Nerf it period I think they probably will too as far as um Brier heart goes I mean I think it's actually more accessible being dropped from the world boss dailies than it is from the arena so I wouldn't have a problem with it staying there and then maybe just also being dropped in the arena or something like that well I got one major issue and I'm glad Rich Lambert is in here um we do this dungeon this dungeon takes like even a good player I did it in an hour and a half but that was on my fourth run a lot of people are taking like my first run was like nine hours you know second run was like four now I'm getting it I'll probably be doing it in in around an hour now easy but I'm doing it to get that last chest and when I get the last chest and it's a hat of winterborn in it like that is too much time out of somebody can you get what for last chest I think the last chest is guaranteed jewelry piece or or M storm weapon I don't I don't know I don't know if I got a had a Warner boor I'm just saying like I got I got something I didn't want basically and like I got a wrestle staff sharpen I don't even know why that is in a game that Russell staff is not going to be utilized like I think there needs to be some type of mechanic like I don't know call them ingame crowns or something let me do the dungeon a certain amount of times let me Farm up this currency and then let me go buy the piece of gear that I want from the chest because waiting for an RNG drop is it's absolutely ridiculous nobody wants to do this dungeon that many times I it was fun the first couple times but now it's getting repetitive and I'm running through it but now I feel like I'm I'm working every time I go inside of that dungeon it's like okay I got to do my dungeon Run for the day like I'm a cop making this rounds I don't want to do I don't want to play the game like that I want to enjoy my time playing it and I don't want to have to farm this dungeon out for two months just to get one item from it I think be nice yeah token system or something or allow the weapons to be tradable or sellable something to where I do not have to spend time to get item that you're not going to use yeah yeah like it's too much time to get a wrestle staff with sharpen on it like I was so pissed off that I got that the other day almost quitty as H I got a I got a wrestle with sharpen on my first run uh regarding uh weapons the weapons being tradable um okay so I'm I'm always like advocating that PVP gear is tradable so PVE players don't have to PVP to attain the gear but PVE gear is always bound and for the first time like when I started getting this gear during the doing the arena I was like you know what man I'm I'm actually glad that you know that people can't just buy this because I'm like working to get this but then I stopped myself for a second and then I realized like that's just like I'm I'm being very very hypocritical there um one thing like that that I realized is I honestly would like to be able to sell the gear I get in the arena the fact that the arena is hard uh makes it to where the gear isn't coming in as quickly so you can actually like the people who Master the arena and finish it efficiently uh and get a lot of gear sets that don't that they don't really need can at least sell that gear set and get some gold in return so I I wouldn't be against them keeping the difficulty and you know maybe having the the gear sets tradeable I don't know why PVE gear is never tradeable but PV PVP gear can always be I mean I know why but I'm saying P okay not all PVE gear buter gear and stuff yeah I mean expected it to be uh to be tradeable and the fact that it's not it's really weird and it's clogging my inventory like I have over 100 items from here already I I dumped them on the alts like it's crazy how many items I've got I've done like again I've done over 20 runs now and um I'm just trying to get you know like a a sharpen two-hander right now I I almost really don't care what it is just as long as I can get one I've got I think six Master weapons so far like four of them have defending I've been lucky with my drops I got two melstrom daggers one sharpened one precise so I'm you got another dagger I got another dagger today sharpened God I'm done but dude I tested a dagger I I I don't know I was testing on PVE mob so I really couldn't see what was going on like I couldn't tell if I was getting a damage boost or not I know there's animation damage right yeah but things like biting Jabs count I haven't tried with a MAG build well the thing is if you can't use it with a Magicka build because you have to cast flurry which is going to cost you like 3K stamina as a MAG build okay but doesn't it like amp it by like a ridiculous amount yeah flurry and then you put Deb on somebody would that not be a huge debt that's thing I don't thinking Target dot yeah I know yeah Cur Cur it it will probably make you curse hit for 20K on the soul is soul assult is same Target though yeah uh g TV actually said that he received five pieces of V16 Bri heart no jewelry pieces from uh from CLE chest from Ser chest wow really so they just made it really easy to get which is surprising it's is that tradable it's a good set it's not tradable is it tradeable it has to be if it's coming in a chest right is heart tradable yeah it should be okay that's really good news honestly I did not know that so yeah it'll be available out there I guess which again like it's such a strong set like I'd rather see stuff like that like here are some really good sets they're reserved to like floors 7 through nine you know all these ones can drop one through three through sixel you know something like that would have been nice but instead it's just like a lot like I go through the mom and I don't even look at what I pick up I'm just like yep okay and I go to the next floor because it's all relevant and for a majority of people that go through there it probably is there's probably a very small percent of people that actually care about what they're picking up like maybe I want that set and they and they eye it up here and there but that that's about it most people don't care though I'd really like to see the um the scathing Mage set which drops from ICP which is like sort of the Maga equivalent of Brier heart it's like a 10% chance on crits to proc like spell damage tradeable um I'd like to see that drop from rothgar or from new content cidal chess any of that because it it's pretty much the equivalent except for I think it doesn't heal you something like that I I want I want majority of this of the sets to be tradeable like I just I feel like having an open economy on on the sets will will it will reward people who do the content either ways like you do the content you get something you don't want someone else wants that you can at least sell it but when you start when you start piling your bank just like defending Resto staffs defending daggers and and and you just don't know what to do with them um I you're kind of stuck especially if you play one particular play style like fers you played the dam sorc so a lot of the gear just does not apply to you it's it's worthless you're deconstructing most of them probably um but if you could sell them to people who wanted the gear you would you would at least feel like you're you're getting something out of running the the arena from a business point of view though it's a downloadable content so in order to get that gear you have to pay to get the downloadable content which is probably how they see it you I mean rather than that makes sense people who have paid for the content trading for in-game gold and stuff to get it but then we have the PVP and PVE in Balance like Imperial City was downloadable content and you don't even have to download it to get shieldbreaker Phoenix or any of the any of the telar stone you know I mean I just feel like I feel like they they always lean towards uh forcing players to do the PVE content to get specific year but when it comes to PVP content let's make all the PVP ke tradeable so that people can you know with tokens which is basically what AP is you can just buy it exactly what you want yeah like all the unded sets and all the the good drops are in PVE and they really haven't updated those sets and there's no signs of adding anything uh where did Lefty go he' like disappear as soon as the P came up well Lefty Lefty didn't run the but he said that he has some issues with his PC he's uh he's working on but like okay my overall just let's wrap up before we do the Q&A because we are taking a lot of time uh I like the arena I like the challenge I have been doing it with a with a magic aorc which is arguably the easiest uh class to run it with because there's a lot of sorcerers on leaderboards not as many dks uh half the temp bars and a third I mean the three4 of them are night blades so uh so um like honestly the Arina it's fun I'm getting gear out of it that I actually use I would feel frustrated if I was getting gear that I wasn't using but I've been getting some really really good drops and um I'm I'm I'm actually enjoying the PVE content sometimes over the PVE content and the reason I'm not enjoying the PVP content is because there's just a lot of issues that haven't been addressed and it's mainly it's mainly the lag and the Zerg gameplay uh that forces me away like I'll I'll be streaming I'll be doing PVP as soon as the FPS drops the Ping starts skyrocketing and the zergs are out and about I'll pack my stff and I'll go to the arena so at least I have an option when when that happens uh let me just fix the cameras really quickly yeah welcome back Lefty it's all good man I'm having a lot of network issues Let's uh let's do the Q&A because we're we're we're about to approach two hours and a half we don't really want to take that long get out my box Lefty get your own box let's do Q&A in the chat right now if you're in the chat ask questions we'll pick up your questions and answer them everyone gets about three questions each so you guys are good to go you guys can start uh you guys can start answering questions from the chat make sure you uh you tag whoever you want to read your question or you can tag all of us and um feel free Fang Rush reaching around and stuff what are you guys doing trying to find myself man I see my green screen and King sitting on top of it me and Lefty are one right now you got to separate us wait why why do we have to be wait what you breaking up with me thank you get my own space okay just to clarify right heart's apparently bound even though it comes out of chest too by heart is bound that's what I'm someone linked me here and he telling me it's bound pick up so all right since we don't have a lot of questions I'm going just go with this first one wait what go ahead just I'm trying to I'm trying to work it I'm in both boxes bosss okay so all right so first question are we GNA get this drink on yes we are just just after the Q&A we're getting the drink on don't worry man man I I definitely sound like I got a question for you guys do you guys think I'm an alcoholic because I really I'm not it's just we have to Stage an intervention Lefty this whole podcast was about that any questions guys ask them in the chat make sure you tag us so we can see your questions uh we're going to wrap this up pretty shortly if you want to contribute towards the uh podcast type in exclamation mark tip in the chat uh and you can donate however much you want to and uh I want to thank the people who have been helping us uh with the podcast with the donations and with the the new graphics as you can see looks a lot more professional so thank you guys for all the support so I'll take my second one now um since I was gone uh maddio is asking what my thoughts are on the new Arena I just don't care I just don't care like um I don't care for PVE I know okay it's fine if it's fun PVE but to me PVE is like you do it once and it's fun it's like oh that was pretty cool and then I'm done with it so it's like I'm not even going to do it once like I have no desire to do it once I don't want anything from it um I've already made my build my build doesn't require anything from that from that um dungeon so like usually whenever I do a dungeon in this game it's just so I can get gear so that I can go PVP so if I don't have to do that dungeon for my build for PVP I'm not going to do it um the only reason I would do it is if like I don't know so the only the only reason I would do the the the dungeon is just to experience it that first time and see how fun it really is um but after that like it's it's a oneandone thing for me when it comes to PVE so that those are my thoughts um somebody asked if we reached out to anybody from zos to join a podcast and this we haven't yet yeah we have not reached out to anybody in particular however we do want to even if it's not on a podcast even if it's behind the scenes we do want to get together with the developers to try to point the game in a in the right direction give them some Insider info because cuz we're the Insiders we play the game more than they do we know a lot more than they do about the game and we got to work together if we want to get the game fixed and going in the right direction um I'll answer a question from dieo Joo I always I never can pronounce your name right I'm sorry j um Joo um as far as the the cloak counter on your bar um Mage Light revealing flare um I have considered putting it on my bar occasionally um the issue that I find is that on a Maga DK you just need like so many different skills to be able to do so many different things to try to tank to try to like have some Shields but some heals I mean you there's just a lot of a lot of skills that you absolutely have to run and uh it's it's tough to justify putting something like that on on my bar just for night blades I mean it is I don't like Mage Light but I think the other one potentially but I just don't from Blacklist thank you so much man I appreciate it um I got a question right here um do you think that Z should debuff Shields because the damage reduction won't allow you to burst through them um I don't think they should touch Shields anymore um I think what they should do is go back I think it was in 1.4 or 1.3 uh that update Shields you were not allowed to reapply a shield until the duration ran out or the shield was completely off of your health bar so for instance if you were at 10% Max health and you spammed heing Ward you would only gain another damage Shield after the healing Ward was completely off of you so somebody would have to damage through that healing Ward then you would have to time it to get to keep the damage shields on so I think that's where they should go with damage Shields that'll fix a lot of the issues cuz the issue is if I get you low health or if you get me low health I can spam multiple damage Shields and keep refreshing them without any penalty I just want to agree with King like 10,000% I don't know when that happened King I remember hearing that on your stream I couldn't believe it because I haven't played magic of Sor since that change happened and here I had thought like magic of ss in general just got better it's not the case they're all still uh they're all still just on easy street right now if they ever come back and rework Shields and kind of like put them in a in a more balanced State um there's a lot of magic ofs out there will get buried it's hands down the easiest class is just walk into with a skill setup and just let it rip yep yeah another thing is like that play style actually stuck with me having to master the proper Shi stack like I like people will watch me and a lot of people will even after I'm done fighting them they say you don't fight like normal sorcs because I don't like I I honestly I wait until my health is really low before I start applying damage Shields and I go up against other sorcerers I can I can sneeze on them and they're putting on a full shield stack with healing War they got full health full shield and they're still full shield stacking while I'm doing damage and if they bring that back you can just watch these Sorcerers get they they'll drown they'll drown I think Shields should probably be looked at as far as like the fact that you can just have basically double health of everybody is kind of absolutely need to be looked at I mean if meler Marina doesn't say anything else about it like the thing is they can't change anything inside of melr Arena that's going to fix Shields it's because of how Shields work that SS are able to go in there and have that buffer to Danger every a lot of other people have danger and SS aren't the only one other people have some options but there's a lot of setups that do not have that option they don't have anything like when I get hit by that poison on floor 7 I'm done I'm done I take my hands off the keyboard when poison hits me unless I'm like one inch from the pool and Cypher like I saw you run it on your first try you didn't even know what was going on and you're just running around you're like yeah so I'm just popping this Ward like uh so what do I do guys and you're like reading chat popping Harden ws and like for me I'm done instantly it's insane I remember that I had the poison on me for about a minute and I was just I was still fighting back and I'm like what's going on I I still stacked my way through so much of that dunge I was like I was asking chat while I'm Shield stacking like yo what am I supposed to do here guys and I'm just spamming Shields just eating everything tanking through it like it's nothing yeah I think the thing with sorcs is just that there's very very few like negatives to them they are able to tank damage they're able to be mobile and they're able to do damage and it's just I I I don't think that that's very balanced has a great burst option despite how clunky it is it will get you killed if you don't use it at the right time on the right mobs yeah it's so clunky but it does give you a great burst option too that's the other thing there's some mechanics you can skip with it you can't do the dungeon without overload like it's that it's that op like it takes your DPS from 10K to 30k like literally you do 30k DPS and overload and there some people who will just sit there and light attack through a whole phase and then go on to the next phase with a th000 overload and just blow through everything cuz it mine I've seen mine hit and I got a build I got a red guard sorcerer that's kind of extremely gimped I've seen mine hit for 35k so I'm just imagin with some of these op builds are doing in PvP the only thing with um with Shield stacking though it's like if sorcs are in five light and without the the reduction of physical damage it's like what are you really supposed to do as a sorc if you have nightl so that's kind of like how it almost justifies I disagree though like that's the thing like sorcerer Sorcerers have they have everything except for sustained DPS and a hard CC literally if they had sustained DPS and a hard CC it would be game over for every other class when when it when you compare it to a sorcerer because as of now like I'm tanking like for instance I was on my DK my stamina DK mind D was lower level but I got hit with a 10K surprise attack and an 11k still cyclone and died for from a night blade right he wasn't even in stealth he just wrecked me I got mad logged onto my sorcerer told the dude to stay there I'll be right back logged in my sorcerer went back to the same spot and completely wrecked dude without my health bar even moving so it's like sorcerer the problem is we have we have Shield breaker which is supposed to be the sorc shield fix but that's for stamina builds only and you have to use a five piece step bonus yeah and and that's not a fix though to like something that's used on multiple classes like it's a part of the game and I want Shields to be a part of the game I want it to be something core to a lot of builds I don't want one set to be like well if they're doing it too much just go and equip this set takes me 25 minutes to get out of combat if I want swi that set on I mean it's so stupid so that's not a way to bounce though that's that's really the point like Shield breaker was not the right thing they talked about uh putting crit on which was great it was nice to to have them say that on one ESO live and then the very next ESO live they're like yeah so that whole thing we talked about it's not happening but don't worry Shield breaker coming and it it wasn't a solution to things it's not a solution to PVE either cuz mobs aren't going to crit that's a whole another thing to tackle um but it needs to be looked at it needs to say you know someone needs to say this is a problem we're aware of it and we're going to do something you know and right now it just doesn't seem to be and that discourages a lot of people that are looking at this I think that message is loud and clear on the forums um right now cuz I read them a lot and people are on there saying you know um you know obviously they're seeing the class disparity there so yeah like I I I honestly like a lot of people want think because I I've been playing a sorcerer class for a long time and I remember I would go up against other sorcerers back in the day and the fights didn't last long because they would run out of resources just trying to spam Shields that's what a lot of sorcerers did um but now with the the fact that you could just keep refreshing your Shields like when I remember I remember reading the the um patch not for for it they were like yeah you know every time you cast a shield it'll refresh the shield I was like what I'm like oh I'm like I'm going to be op now cuz this was back when harness magick was still broken I'm like you mean to tell me I can keep harness MaGa on at all times without waiting for it to run off like I'm never going to die and that's when I started making those YouTube videos when I was pouring oil on zergs with my magic a sorcerer but if until they bring that that Shield issue back or the The Shield change to where you have to wait for that Shield to remove completely before you can stack another one people are going to complain about shields I agree and I also yeah and I don't want them I don't want them to just say okay we Nerf Shields by another 15% or we made Shields crible because when you make Shields crible then you you're going to they're going to add in a whole another issue because I can already see it happen now the fact that Shields don't have any mitigation on them and if they're taking crit damage people are just going to blow through Shields I think they just need to bring that Shield St whatever they change bring it back you can't refresh a shield unless your Shield is completely off you bring skill into the game and then you'll just watch and see these Sorcerers get melted I agree King I think they should start there man I you again I thought I thought a lot of ss just got better but they didn't man it's just it's it's really that it's it's that it's so easy to put up a buffer like people put up a buffer inside the mom Arena that is more Health than I have like there's something wrong with that know what's messed up I'mma tell you my bars crushing shock harness Magicka Crystal fragment Harden Ward light yeah I got two DPS abilities and I run through that dungeon like it's nothing just Crush in shock kill all the mobs pop and overload for the balls this good game good night that's that's all you got to do and I got my shield stack on my DPS bar so I never have to swap I can literally do the dungeon with one bar I don't even need the bar swap yeah I mean sneaky does it without even having a Resto bar he just has Shields I mean he doesn't even have a heal you don't need to you need to heal you just just quit surge to heal yeah I mean we'll see like running double Destro I would see double double rest double Destro sounds like an option I really like this question I think probably everyone could maybe comment on it um so the question is do you think the game will ever go back to skill versus numbers historically with most MMOs I've played a lot of MMOs before this game it always they always go down the exact same path and it's usually driven by business it's usually driven by making money and the path is give the people an easy button because the people whine and complain a lot because the game's too hard and so honestly that's the way that this game is going that's the way that I've Seen It Go um there are a couple couple easy buttons that were removed um lately but there's still a lot of easy buttons in this game do you think that it'll ever get there no I don't no I don't and I and I I hate to say that because I think this game of all games could really benefit from not having that easy button because this game would be the game I want to play um if this game didn't have an easy button easy buttons kill MMOs they kill them and and I don't want to see ESO go through that so I hope I'm wrong I really hope I'm wrong I got a question from brri he says if you were a developer how would you fix the Zerg mentality in cido so I would attack it from two fronts I would um de incentivize the need to Zerg and that'll also make it to where smaller groups have options to kill the zergs now I don't want to go too deep into detail because this topic like we can go for another three hours on on the Zerg topic but the first thing I want to say is um a group of 24 people if 24 people kill one person and assuming they have their AP buff on one person that's worth the full amount of AP 24 people kill him or her uh they'll receive 112 AP or 120 AP each so yeah the AP is split but there's actually AP created from that one person because the group is 24 people there's actually an increase in AP coming in from that one person he's no longer worth the 1,000 AP he's actually worth 120 multip by 24 however much that is 2880 2880 so there's actually CP I mean AP being created because a a large group killed one person who wasn't even worth two AA zero AP so that's the first thing I would do if I'm one player and I kill another player they're worth a th000 I get 1,000 AP 24 people get killed that one person they're actually like all together combined are getting 2,880 AP from that one player so that I mean yeah you you you're splitting the AP up but then you're also creating uh fake AP I mean I mean you're creating AP out of thin air just because 24 people decided to Ambush one guy or 24 people killed one person I I mean I say this all the time like they need to they need to make it to where if you're in a larger group you get less AP people people are telling me Oh they already have that system in place uh you know the more people you're in your group the less AP you get but there's a cut off point and then after the cut off point AP is just being rewarded for no reason uh just so that everyone gets you know a share that's worthy of uh um and the reason I mean the reason I say this like that that's just one aspect like I know to to a lot of people Alliance points means nothing um it doesn't mean anything to me but some of these zergs like you know to them just adding a little bit more of an incentive not to run a lot with a lot of people will help you have to you have to attack it from two fronts you have to de de incentivize it and then you have to make it to where smaller groups have a chance to kill larger groups and then that goes into AE caps ulti regen Dynamic ultimate but that's that's not the topic of discussion but just to answer your question I would attack it from two fronts hey it's not even a de you know deinen incentive that word is that word is it's tough but it's not even doing that like you said they're creating about three times more AP for them like they're actually creating an incentive to do it um it's it's strange to me uh I I I won't go much into the issue but it's just strange to me you know we we do talk about it more than once in the podcast it's clearly the primary indicator of performance issues in cidel that turns people away and nothing is done I just day after day I wonder like you know we have we have zenx people that come watch and we tell them and and they got to know like this is what causes your performance issues if you have performance issues like if you have performance issues killing and making your game look bad you want to take care of those ASAP like they're the things that should be top on your list like we don't want things dragging the performance we don't want people to come hop into cidel the first time be like wow this sucks it's laggy I'm never coming back here again and yet it's been here that long like it's time to do something I mean I don't know when but yeah um a question from Leo or Leo cor or whatever um was asking I think Cypher and Lucy and myself if uh think magic of DK would ever be returned to their former glory um got to have hope for sure I think that with some adjustments some of the ones that we discussed earlier it's definitely possible um it just depends on which direction they want to go in do they want to go in the direction of um allowing magic a DK to get back to their like being able to sustain and and tank people or do they want to go in the direction of kind of like evening everything out and allowing them to have executes and and more damage you know I'd preferably go in the direction of being able to tank things because I think that's the true nature of the DK class but I don't know got to have hope for sure just keep talking about it until somebody cares all right I got I got two fast questions sorry um BRZ ask uh would I like to see a small scale Arena implemented if so how I would love to see a small scale PV or PVP Arena implement it um and they can literally take what they have with either vet DSA or Mom Arena remove the PVE mobs and just randomly spawn us into one of those Arenas one of those stages whether it's the fire stage I still have the fire stuff still have the fire pop out of the background if you run too close to the edge on like the last boss fight still have the golden ghost they can still just leave all that stuff in just remove the PVP mobs the PVE mobs and then allow us to Q in for PVP it's perfect and cck gucks TV asks how do you like the Xbox One Elite controller for ESO on PC especially after the last update he ass this question like 5050 times I I got to answer it the elite controller is really good um I was already using the Xbox One controller it's really the the major difference is the build quality so you'll just have a better F in your hands when you're playing a game so if you play with a controller definitely get the elite controller nothing compares to it like it's it's it's amazing I got two fast questions too how did I sell out kidding kidding Xbox paid you to to buff up the elite controller I wish I wish all right J Hill 613 as fingers do y'all think they listen to any of y'all um hey J Hill Jay Hill is a fellow texting so all right well I think that's a funny one I I you know I think I know they come here sometimes and they hear us but do they listen that's another word um I think they listen to us about as well is you know a husband listens to his wife all the way up to the divorce uh not too damn holy crap that's how it goes so ver you ask Swan fangers do you think the arena will end up being more melee friendly I certainly hope so they got to do something with it um it's clearly clearly built for range if you go in there with melee you're walking into a a just a storm it's pretty rough uh a lot of Arenas actually have specific specific melee counters they are built purely against melee okay and that's pretty bad um the guy the skill you guys were talking about blind blind's still in the game you probably don't realize it just crushing shock through stuff but yeah there's mobs in there that blind you so I can't even hit anything for like 5 Seconds uh that happens a lot that's fun there's just a lot of anti melee stuff yeah I notic that they put that ability on me I'm just sitting there like bro I'm I'm range DPS and how how do you heal at that point bro fing when when I get blinded I just pop Rally or or Vigor and I just roll around for a second or two I mean it's it's silly but there just a lot of things the bosses they do PB AOE so they're shooting AOE out from themselves there's nothing in there to be like oh you're range well I'm going to punish you for that that doesn't exist anywhere in there really it's all just damage stuff but if you're melee it's going to be harder to deal with not to mention the fact that you're probably stamina unless you're a DK Magicka which you know good luck anyway I completely agree with that when I played the arena the first time through I was like I I mean I know it's possible with melee because I've seen you do it I've seen some Sam Templars do it I know some sers that did it but I'm like it is going to be so much more difficult if you have to be in their face to do the damage well I noticed one thing like in that Arena I I don't know if it's because I'm a magic a build or a or it's cuz I'm a gimped red guard magical sorcerer I don't know but your DPS Fang Rush is off the charge compared to Ms like you just obliterate everything in there it takes me like an hour to kill a trash mob it took a lot of iterations that build though the thing I've arrived at make sacrifices and I just have to avoid things but at the same time if you can burst through things you save time you know having to healer or do other stuff so um if you if you try werewolf I can guarantee you will obliterate that dungeon man yeah no I yeah I'd seen uh alus do some werewolf stuff the only thing that scares me is like yeah you'll kill through like coming out of it you could just die in like one second you know to something and like that's how the that's how a lot of the dungeon goes like the thing is that build revolves around healing off crit surge like it'd be great for other builds but it wouldn't be as great as as mine is cuz mine revolves around most my sustain just comes off crit Rush healing so um it would be tougher for other stamina builds but uh that's that's kind of the point of it is really really high crit damage all right guys uh we are closing in on 3 hours I know it probably took a really long time this time but I think we should wrap up the podcast I just want to thank uh our donators for today's podcast Blacklist with the $50 donation thank you so much man I appreciate it um we also got a donation from uh Jace Blen for $10 he says Shield stack for days thanks Jay nor call Justin with $5 donation and Elizabeth Austin with the $20 donation thank you guys so much thanks everyone who tuned in to the podcast this is going to be posted on YouTube youtube.com/ CER PK and if you want to catch the casters on Twitch or YouTube Type in exclamation mark Casters in the in the chat and you'll be linked to you to all the casters twitch page you can find the information there are any of you guys streaming tonight yes sir yeah I'll be doing the arena probably immediately after this all right yeah I won't be all right you guys can catch the casters on their stream follow them show them some love thank you guys so much for tuning in and thank you Jules for showing up thank you zynthesis for sharing your in put on the night plate as well as well as soft caps and other things uh we're looking forward to getting more guests next time around um we'll probably finish up the classes and I do want to bring at least one uh experienced Templar player so that we can have a very good uh Templar perspective because not a lot of us play Templar so blob fat blob fat is definitely a good option if he's interested yeah BL so thank you guys so much for tuning in catch to the cast on their twitch page Lefty Lucy FR King Richard exclamation mark casters if you want to see that and if you want to donate towards the podcast exclamation mark tip in the chat uh this will be on youtube.com/ ciper PK and uh we'll see you guys in two weeks we're trying to do this every other Saturday so we've this is our third episode we've been consistent so far every other Saturday we want to come here and just talk about anything relating to the game thank you guys so for tuning in guys thanks thanks guys everybody have a good night\n"