The Ruling That Could Change Everything: The Verdict in the Vernet X vs Apple Case

Need to know about this case? The ruling came from the Eastern District of Texas, which is where every patent litigation, especially from patent trolls, is filed. This jurisdiction has become notorious for its tendency to favor patent trolls over big companies. The jury trials there seem to be influenced by local sentiments, with people in Texas often siding with the underdog against larger corporations.

In this particular case, the jury awarded Vernet X a staggering $650 million in damages against Apple. While it's likely that Apple will appeal and see the damages reduced, one thing is certain: this verdict will drag on for a long time. The process of appeals can be lengthy and unpredictable, making it difficult to determine the final outcome.

One of the most interesting aspects of this case is how Vernet X became a patent troll in the first place. As a failed company, they couldn't make their products materialize in the consumer market. Instead, they patented an idea and sued other companies for infringement. In this case, Vernet X is suing Apple, claiming that their iPhone 5 and later models infringe on one of their patents.

Vernet X's business model may be profitable, but it's not exactly a sustainable or innovative approach to driving technological progress. By focusing on patent litigation rather than developing new products, they're essentially playing a game of "patent roulette," hoping that someone will eventually sue them back. It's a business model that doesn't really contribute to the development of new technologies.

The case against Apple is just one example of how Vernet X has been successful in using their patents to extort money from other companies. They've already forced Microsoft to settle twice, and they have multiple cases pending with other tech giants. It's a lucrative business model, but it's also questionable whether it's fair or sustainable.

On the flip side, Apple did win an appeal earlier on, which led to the initial verdict being vacated. However, this new ruling has given Vernet X a chance to claim royalties on ongoing infringement from 2012 to 2015, when Apple released iPhone 5 and later models. This could potentially snowball into a much larger payout for Vernet X.

One thing that's notable about this case is the unanimous decision by the jury. While it may seem surprising that a unanimous verdict was reached, it's also worth noting that the Eastern District of Texas has a reputation for being...let's say, "tech-savvy." The locals there are known to be passionate about technology and may not take kindly to large corporations.

The case against Apple is just one example of how patent trolls like Vernet X can manipulate the system. It's a complex and often unpredictable process, but it's also a reminder that sometimes, the law doesn't always favor justice or fairness. Instead, it often seems to favor those who have the resources and expertise to navigate the system effectively.

As for what's in the water in the Eastern District of Texas? Well, that's anyone's guess. But one thing is certain: this region has a reputation for being...unconventional. The locals there seem to take pride in their independence and willingness to challenge the status quo. Whether it's due to a unique cultural phenomenon or simply a result of the region's history and geography, it's clear that this place is not afraid to speak its mind.

So, if you ever find yourself in the Eastern District of Texas, be sure to stop by for some good barbecue and try to get a sense of what's going on. Who knows? You might even strike up a conversation with one of the locals about their views on patent trolls or the latest tech trends. Just remember to bring your appetite – the food in this region is legendary!

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to the Apple Insider podcast I'm your host Mikey Campbell and with me today Neil Hughes managing editor how you doing Mikey pretty good uh episode 54 today probably going to start out with uh the March event what what's going on with that well uh the rumors are March 15th Apple's going to hold an event and they're going to announce uh couple new products uh we're going to get a new 4in iPhone which we've been talking about breathlessly for a few uh months now and we are also going to get a new third generation iPad Air what are you most excited about well I know what you're most excited about I mean you know I'm I'm actually uh kind of not excited about the 4in iPhone just because I don't think I can get it you know I I think that uh it sacrifices too much for for starters I use like 100 gigs on my 128 gig phone so if there is no 128 gig 4in iPhone then I'm immediately out right I like the smaller form factor if it had all the sixs innards I would gladly sacrifice 3D touch for the smaller form factor but I don't think I'm going to get that I'm guessing it's going to be more of a mid-range uh kind of phone uh not the the latest and greatest specs and then of course you do the thing where you buy the 4-in iPhone in March and then like a few months later in September there's an iPhone 7 it comes out and then you're like damn it I want that phone well do you think it's uh going to be so that you're going to that you're going to notice or do you think that it's going to have at least a bit of parity with the c 6s because I mean it's it's going to have to last the new upcoming seven cycle right yeah I guess the question becomes how often do they want to update it do they want to do an annual upgrade cycle on this or is it going to be more like an iPod Touch where it's like when we get around to it because remember last year's iPod Touch uh update um we we were exclusive to report that it was coming but even we didn't know that it was going to have an A8 processor at the time that was pretty shocking that a $200 uh uh media player ran the same chip as the latest and greatest iPhone at the time um so it's certainly possible and the precedent has been set that it could have a A9 chip with two gigs of RAM and and all that um that would be awesome if it's got an A9 chip in it and uh same camera as a 6S and the only thing it's missing is touch I or 3D touch then I'm probably going to get it but I don't I can't see them doing that because then where would the iPhone 6 fit in the lineup you know you're going to pay more to get a larger phone that has a slower processor and and and all that kind of stuff I I they're going to cut Corners somewhere probably put a six chip in there the A8 chip and uh the slower Touch ID as well but in that but in that case it wouldn't uh it wouldn't support the uh M9 Co processor right so I mean so that's embedded in the A9 so it would be you lose the always on Hay Siri functionality which yeah uh is something that I use a lot so yeah if they don't have an A9 in there I'm out it's got to be the latest chip that's that's just the starting point for me just because I've already been using a 6S for you know four months now or whatever it's been so by the time they announc this in March I'm not going to take a step back for a smaller phone as much as I like the idea of a smaller phone yeah I mean it's a I'm thinking of you know like the the major build material costs um and I think what the the new 3D touch array is probably one of the more significant ones but if they don't include that um I think people would see it as a misstep but I don't know what else they could skimp on aside from from the processor yeah I mean the the memory if it's only got if it maxes out at 64 gigs the rumors are there'll be a 16 gig entry level model and then a 64 gig model so you know for people looking for that that kind of phone for most people 64 is fine but I take so many photos and videos and have so many apps and stuff on my phone that I can't go back to you know I was the guy that held on to uh with to his last dying breath the 160 gig iPod Classic cuz I had all my music on there and until iTunes Match came out and all that kind of stuff I couldn't have all my music because I have like over 160 gigs worth of music so I have like 20 26,000 songs or something so uh I I need to have that much capacity on my phone that's just the I have like 10,000 photos on my phone I I'm I'm insane I know but I don't want them in the cloud because if I go back and find a photo from a couple years ago which I do quite often uh then it's got to download and use my data and it's like I'd rather just have it all on there I don't want to mess around with that stuff yeah I can I can see the headlines now that uh Apple is still offering the 16 gigabyte oh people are going to complain about that no matter what please come on you know my mom has an iPhone and she she never uses anything on it other than you know taking the occasional photo and sending a text and stuff she would never fill up 16 gigs of her life dependent on it for a lot of people it's fine I the problem becomes when it won't install updates because it says you're out of space but that's an even bigger Spa issue for iCloud than it is for the iPhone itself how many people do you know that say say it keeps bugging me to upgrade my iCloud storage and and I and I don't know what to do and they can't back up their iPhone because they have like a lot of times there's like they swapped out their phone and the old backups on there or something yeah yeah all right so listen I don't I I know you think that the 4-inch iPhone is what's got me really excited but you're actually wrong am I what's got me excited is iPad air3 even though I won't buy one I'll stick with my Pro but SMART connector on the iPad air3 is what the latest leaks suggests right but why why are you excited about that though because it's going to be what what specs have you uh have you most titilated well I mean I'm a big proponent of the SMART connector I think that the SMART connector has the potential to be something pretty awesome like uh mag safe with data is basically what you're looking at here now it's not to that level yet it's going to take some time they got to upgrade the specs on it but it's a first generation thing and I you know I don't like messing around with Bluetooth and and all that crap I don't want to do that stuff you know when I'm connecting something I want to have something that I can just kind of snap on there and have it work when I want it to be and I've talked about this before on the podcast I see the iPad as a future of computing in that it becomes the device that you need at a given point in time it can be a laptop replacement it can be a tablet it can be whatever it can be what you need it to be and so I think the SMART connector enables that imagine for this podcast if we could have some sort of a custom docking station with USB ports on it where I could set it down and have a microphone there and a keyboard and just prop it on there and then it it turns into my podcasting station does it does it support the bandwidth for that kind of application though supposedly not but nobody really knows because the specs aren't out and there are no SMART connector accessories out there right now except for the Logitech create and Apple's own keyboard there's nothing else nothing was announced at CES so this is like when lightning first came out it's going to take some time for the accessory makers to really get on board and get behind it and invest in it you're seeing a lot of keyboard makers like U my favorite Bridge uh announced an iPad Pro keyboard but it's still Bluetooth it's not using a SMART connector wamp wamp right so it's going to take some time for that stuff to come around and from what I understand what what's interesting is in the documentation when they announced it stuff Apple said that uh the SMART connector could both transmit and receive power now why would they advertise that if the only purpose of the SMART connector is to allow non-powered accessories like the keyboards and stuff that can have a backlight or whatever why would they advertise that the iPad can receive power from the accessory to because they're they're going to launch something like a battery pack I I don't I don't know that the specifications allow for something like that right now but imagine if uh you know an iPad Pro 3 or something down the line had the new second generation SMART connector and you could dock your iPad and charge it while using it with accessories yeah I mean that seems feasible uh it's kind of I mean it's getting closer to Bridging the Gap right between Mac and uh and iPad had but it's it's still missing uh those those key applications that you can run on on OS 10 yeah I mean there's no support for you you can't get like the USB adapter and plug in your Mac mic and just have it work we're not there yet um maybe one day we will be but that's where I see the that's where I'm excited about the SMART connector and that's why I'm excited that Apple's doubling down and aggressively bringing it to the IP IP ad air3 not because I plan on getting an iPad air3 but because I think the SMART connector could if Apple plays their cards right and if accessory makers Buy in uh could be a huge uh game changer for the future of the iPad I mean let's forget keyboards all right you can come up with any kind of keyboard you want let's think about anything else that could connect to this think about how you could just prop your iPad down and and on an musical instrument or on a uh uh you know whatever microphone dock or something like that run down the list of things that you could do with this to put your iPad somewhere you know you have a kitchen accessory or something like that you bring your iPad with you put it down on the connector it works and it becomes what you need at that moment it can be a laptop it can be a terminal it can be a a podcasting station it can be a TV it can be uh a musical instrument it can be whatever and all it takes is you snapping some magnetic thing on there or putting it down on it and Bam and now you got it right right but I mean accessory makers are going to uh I mean and or musical instrument makers or whatever I mean they're going to have to make a choice right between whether to allow you to connect via lightning or SMART connector right I mean do you so which would they choose I mean iPad losing a lot of ground in the tablet Market that's that's what we don't know and that's the frustrating part what are the specifications of the SMART connector how how much better is it than lightning what are the power capabilities of it what is the data transmission rate is is it so gimped that all we're going to get with this first generation is keyboards uh and then where is Apple planning on taking it that's that's why I I wonder why they said it was capable of both receiving and transmitting power I'm guessing it doesn't receive enough power to recharge an iPad so why would you why would you want some juice coming over that maybe they're implying that powered accessories can also connect to it and do cool stuff you know things that might be a little more complex than just a keyboard interesting interesting to think about I'm not sure I mean and there's also the thing where you have to use it in landscape orientation right um unless one day they also put SMART connector on the bottom what if they replace lightning with what if what if SMART connector is the lightning replacement I guess but they're going to have to bump up those specs from what we heard um previously right yeah but I'm thinking five years down the road right I'm not thinking I'm not thinking iPhone 7 kind of stuff I'm thinking I'm thinking what if this is where they want it to go you know a portless device with Magnetic charging you can just set it down and let it charge I I don't I mean I'm just spitballing at this point obviously but I'm excited for the SMART connector and that's why I'm excited for these rumors with the iPad air3 the other stuff about it who cares uh the cases make it look like it's going to have a camera flash oh boy um why why are they why are they promoting use of an iPad camera come on Apple please stop that would be weird to me if they did it for a number of reasons including the fact that you would think that they would have just brought it to the iPad Pro if they're planning on doing it on the air3 but um I'm guessing the processor probably won't be as powerful as the one in the Pro the Pro's got 4 gigs of RAM I could see them doing you know three or something or two on the iPad Air 3 and making it an A9 chip and not an a9x um and other than that you know the same thing the four speaker array so it's going to be a smaller iPad Pro based on the the leaked schematics and stuff I think that's a you know if they sell that for 500 bucks I think that's a pretty good product right I'll stick with the I'll stick with larger screen I prefer the larger screen but yeah I was thinking like what if the I mean one day apple is going to start going towards wireless charging right so for a lot of people that's maybe like the only reason why they use the lightning Port they don't use it for data transferer or to connect peripherals so I mean one day they could delete that Port entirely switch the data transfer and stuff over to the smart connector MH and and then they would have they would have space for both and it would I guess look nicer yeah I mean if you if you go through that process now of trying to get stuff to connect uh and talk to each other it's a little cumbersome right so uh I have a a Sony Alpha camera with built-in Wi-Fi and I have to uh connect my iPad or my iPhone to a Wi-Fi network broadcast by the uh camera with some crazy password on it and then I have to launch the Sony app which is a piece of junk and then I got to select the photos I want to transfer and it's like this whole Wireless future or even Bluetooth you know you connect to the speaker you lose the connection you're connected to the wrong thing you know you go back oh is it on is it turned off there's a lot of just hassle with this kind of stuff that uh sometimes you just don't want to deal with that GoPro is kind of the same way you know you can connect over Bluetooth but is it on is it on with the Bluetooth or without did it turn it off to save the battery now you open the app oh the connection was lost and it's like oh jeez some some of that's simpler on some Android devices because of NFC uh where you can tap like the Sony camera has NFC capabilities in it and and theoretically Apple could do something like that because they have NFC chip in the iPhone but they don't seem inclined to do it they just want to use NFC for Apple pay I feel like we're getting short changed on the wireless Revolution because it's difficult though like if everybody's got a wireless device and you want to sometimes even share that wireless device with other people right I mean multiple people may want to use the same speaker or something like that just having stuff work is is kind of difficult that's why I'm uh I'm not a Bluetooth speaker guy I'm an AirPlay guy um I have just a one-bedroom apartment but I have three AirPlay zones in my apartment uh because it's just that much easier and anybody who comes over my place once they get on my Wi-Fi they can automatically access my AirPlay speakers and control the music and play what they want and it works great or no one uh none of your friends have AirPlay so it it makes the it makes the process much easier right but yeah Bluetooth I mean it's fine for speakers and stuff like that it's just not as convenient when you got to turn the device on blah blah blah go do this do go do that in my home my speakers are always on they're connected to airport expresses or in the case of my Denon receiver it's just always kind of sitting in the background and then I can just hit a button and and start playing music in whatever Zone I want unfortunately apple is kind of uh not paid attention to airplay in years so even though I have a super powerful iPad Pro it cannot stream to uh more than one AirPlay device at once unlike my Mac which can do that I'm guessing that's not a limitation of Hardware that's probably just Apple forgot about AirPlay yeah well I mean they kind of consciously forget about a lot of stuff for iOS right right ah oh well well I on the topic of uh 3D touch which the iPad is supposed to have the new one um which would make me very upset by the way with having the pro and not having it on there wait you you think that the iPad Air 3 is going to have 3D touch could be I mean that's the rumor no that's not the r i I never heard that rumor no where was that there's a there's a rumor out there about that there I guarantee you they are not going to do that there is no way no way you never know it's not happening there would be say that they they can't like blow it up or whatever uh to the size of the iPad yet they don't have the technology for it uh yeah but they're trying well of course they're trying I mean it'll come in the next couple years but they're they're not going to introduce it on the $500 model when they got a $800 model out there that can't do it it's not g to happen Okay well well one day when that comes one day yeah not this year yeah but interestingly uh I mean part of 3D a big part of 3D touch is the haptic feedback right I mean which is you know part audio but mostly uh tactile so how are they going to do an iPad that doesn't have you know a uh a vibration finally get Rumble in the uh iPad it I would feel I feel like it would they' have to have like two Motors or or more yeah probably more especially for a pro right yeah well they'd have to probably put like I don't know four in the in the Pro just to even get people to feel like because it's not like an iPhone where you hold it in your hand and you can feel it throughout your fingers that's a difficult that's an interesting point you raised it's kind of difficult uh thing to do I would I would assume they would do something like uh like amping up the sound or something I mean you can make the the iPad kind of vibrate a bit with the speakers um especially with a pro right I guess they could do something like that like maybe maybe output an uh an audio waveform or something that you can't hear but you can feel I don't know I it's weird to me that um none of the Apple uh controllers uh the sanctioned controllers for iOS support Rumble considering that's been a standard feature of game controller since the Nintendo 64 came out yeah right I don't know maybe they're uh maybe they're worried about it shaking apart because of the uh spotty build quality maybe I don't know but that's just one of those things where it's like that's not apples bread and butter gaming so it's like oh yeah of course they didn't get that right because that's not what they do but yeah I think some sort of Rumble in the iPad wouldn't be a bad thing is it would have to be kind of like a subtle in your hands type thing but I don't know how like you were saying I don't know how they do that with the motors and stuff like that that just seems like it would be kind of a interesting technical achievement they'll make the battery integ they'll make the battery the weight for the motor it'll be just the battery shaking back and forth um so anyway as I was saying about 3D touch uh Apple's issue or not issued but they were they filed for a semi-interesting patent that uh would bring similar technology to the iPhone and iPad Touch ID home button so I mean now when you look at the iPhone right the only well the iPhone 6s the only part of the front facing surface that you it does not have some sort of force sensitive input is the home button which is oddly the only thing that actually moves back and forth um so it it opens up the door to uh a whole bunch of possibilities really um as I as I said in the report like for example you know how uh on Apple watch you can respond to texts with you know so-called intelligent replies right so imagine that coming to iPhone but instead of uh interacting with the screen you know you touch a button then the screen turns on then you move your thumb you know swipe through a bunch of responses on the screen you can do that all with uh with just your thumb and you know varying your pressure on the touch it button so um it I guess do you understand what I'm saying like you could you unlock the phone press a little harder uh text pops up right then you press a little harder and then you can cycle through all those responses with just uh you know just by varying the pressure of your thumb and releasing message sent so I mean it it's an interesting uh it's an interesting piece of uh IP what do you what do you think about it I really enjoyed uh reading your report this morning because it was one of those things where uh as I read it I was like this makes so much sense that I'm surprised that I didn't think of it before you know it's like kind of one of those no-brainer things where it's like of course a pressure sensitive home button would add a lot of context the greatest example of this if you have an iPhone 6 or 6s and you're running iOS 9 how many times have you pulled your phone out of your pocket and hit the home button twice and instead of unlocking it it's got Apple pay up it happens to me all the time all the time yeah so if they could do something where it's like you know press firmly and hold like a uh peek and pop type thing with the with the home button uh then that would be uh one way of doing it uh you know there's all kinds of interesting things you could do um giving more context to what the phone does when you unlock it like unlock it and take me here like for example let's say you have a message is on the screen and right now it's kind of if you have Touch ID enabled it's kind of a convoluted process where let's say you're using um uh what what is the uh term that Apple has for when you start one thing on one device and finish it on another it's on the tip of my Tong continuity continuity continuity thank you uh let's say you're using continuity and you're reading something on your Mac or you got directions open on your Mac or your iPad or whatever you want to open them up on your iPhone right now you got to go to your phone swipe up from the bottom left of the screen before touching the home button so basically press the lock button swipe up from the bottom left of the screen to access whatever you doing on the other device then put your thumb over the thumb over the touch ID sensor to unlock the phone so it's a three-step process to get your phone unlocked to where you wanted to go uh now imagine if you could um instead do a more firm touch on the touch ID sensor and that would then automatically pull up whatever you're doing on another device or you have text message on your screen you want to reply to you swipe uh right on them to access it and again you have to do the same thing press the lock button so you don't unlock the phone view the text messages swipe on the text message then unlock the phone by pressing your thumb on the touch ID and that takes you right to the message you want to respond to what if they could use something like that to simplify that process and make it so that you didn't have to make it a three-step process to unlock your phone yeah I mean that's a good idea and it's kind of disappointing that it's not on no right well yeah Touch ID is is is great but it creates a whole mess of problems like I just described where things that you used to do before when you didn't have Touch ID on your iPad for example uh now it's just like another step another process and of course okay here we are complaining about the half a second it takes us to do this yes it is stupid to complain about that but it is a step backwards from the way things were before and if Apple could do something to keep that convenience and security of touch ID while also just making it easier to access a device why wouldn't they consider it I mean you could say the same thing for 3D touch right how difficult is it to just tap on a photo and open it why do I have to press and hold on it yeah I still haven't really trained myself to use or 3D touch I I mean sometimes I forget it's there and then sometimes it's like uh I don't know it's it there hasn't there hasn't been like a killer like app or killer feature that you know I really think uh is oh that that is so great I'm gonna use it all the time I use it a lot in um Safari and the reason I use lot in Safari is like if you're on a website that's not mobile optimized and there's a bunch of links everywhere half the time you're hitting the screen and it opens the long wrong link and it's like oh geez then you got to go back and then find zoom in find the right link so what I'll do is I'll press firmly and hold on the link to make sure that I'm opening the right one and I'll peek and then I'll pop to open it up to make sure I get the right one open um and then I'll also do it like if I'm editing a URL or something like that um editing text um I will uh do the The Firm touch on the keyboard the problem with that is it gets a little wonky too because like let's say I'm changing a URL or something like that and I want to go somewhere else and manually type it in and I want to scroll all the way to the right and not delete the whole URL and re-enter everything then I'll have to firmly press press and push to the right side of the keyboard and then it stops at some point and then the cursor doesn't go any farther and it's like uh and then you try to take your thumb off and press again and then it doesn't work the second time when you try to do it so then I'm just yeah oh I hate that I feel like it I mean I know it's there to uh as kind of like a you know user experience safety feature but I feel like it I like they need it either that or they need to they need to have some sort of infinite scrolling when your thumb goes over to the right side just keep scrolling like don't require me to keep moving it's kind of uh it is you know first generation so I mean hopefully it'll get better next next time but I can see the potential there I don't use the multitasking feature uh with 3D touch just because I'm so trained to double press the home button it's like one of those things I can't break the habit I think that's like probably my main my my go-to for 3D touch uh well if people don't know what we're talking about it's the um to get to the uh multitasking uh cards view you uh swipe from the left off the screen by pressing and pressing down a little a little harder than the normal very convenient yeah it works pretty well but I just can't break the habit of double pressing because I've been doing it for so many years well that that I mean you know Apple's marketing to a new demographic it's not all about you Neil that's okay I mean at this point they're all power user features and as with any feat on a Mac or even a PC there's multiple ways to get things done and as long as you don't you know abandon the people that learned to do it the old way then as long as it works who cares speaking about abandoning people do you have uh do you have something to say about uh a certain camera manufacturer a certain action camera manufacturer which GoPro do you have hero for what's it what is the black the black so that's the one that does 30 frames per second 4K yeah okay and you live in Hawaii you've got gorgeous scenery there do you surf or scuba dive or anything like that yeah you take it out to uh take it out to the beach uh hiking what else and then you know cutting the lawn and stuff but so you like your GoPro yeah I mean it's a it's a it's a handy little tool that you can just like pop in a bag or whatever or my girlfriend's bag and uh whip it out when when you need it and um it it shoots very uh I feel like you know very good video so GoPro announced their earnings this week and they fell off a cliff uh they're they're down 30% year-over-year from where they were the the holiday quarter of 2014 they are now a publicly traded company who can't find their footing they're getting undercut by a bunch of cheap knockoffs and they're also stuck with this issue of they have people like myself and Mikey who are happy customers who have absolutely zero reason to upgrade their GoPro here's what I'll ask you Mikey what could GoPro announce this year in a new hero model to replace the four black that would make you buy another $400 or $500 camera upgrade what could they possibly announce um well they could add more battery life magically and also uh integrate a screen without adding uh bulk so the impossible yeah so there's not really much they can do to expand beyond their current loyal customer base cuz you know after the GoPro Hero 2 there just aren't a lot of reasons upgrade they made a little bit smaller whatever but there are so many things that GoPro could expand into and address I mean is there a camera company out there that has had success in the last five years and I mean not like apple making iPhones with cameras in them I mean a camera company that has you know really made a splash in the average public consumer way that like GoPro has you look at Canon I think Sony would probably be the the biggest uh success story and and they sell their modules to Apple so and Sony you know you look at I again as I mentioned before I have a Sony Alpha camera and I love it but I'm more of an Enthusiast GoPro is selling I think they've sold like 25 million cameras to date or something they said yesterday yeah I mean they've sold a lot of cameras I I would be shocked if Sony sold that many in the in the last few years GoPro is the biggest success story in cameras cameras specifically uh in the last few years and they've squandered it all because they haven't first of all you can't tell what's going on with their lineup look at their line up and try to figure out what's what and what you're going to get it's I mean you need a a a master's degree in in uh science to understand what they're doing like with all these specifications and stuff and it's all the same product that comes out like even their their latest revamp the um uh the session the smaller one they introduce that thing with a $400 price which is the the same as the high-end Hero 4 and the only thing that was different even though it had like fewer specifications and wasn't as good was that it was smaller and that was it was the size of the GoPro really bothering anybody that much was it that like big and heavy that it was a problem for 99% of use cases I feel like No And also the session is it it's almost equally ungainly in that uh it's a cube and um I mean the mounts are are they all fit on the old old stuff but again it's it's just a couple it's like an inch off of one side and um I mean it's good for people who want to mount it on their wrist or uh stuff like that and and at $200 it makes sense at 400 it made absolutely no sense yeah I mean the the specs were just not there and um I feel like it was more of a they're they're over they're overly confident in in their user base and that it will keep growing right it wasn't marketed there's no incentive for for it's Enthusiast it's it's dude Bros on the slopes that Bo that bought GoPros and they're happy with their GoPros but they're not going to upgrade why would they buy a new one there's no there's nothing that's been offered from GoPro that would give you an incentive to upgrade like like we established I still have my uh uh Hero 3 plus black um and I have absolutely no reason to upgrade and so GoPro sales went off a cliff they're kind of doing damage control their next quarter Outlook is terrible I think analysts were expecting them to report like 300 uh million in revenue and it's actually like 160 million in Revenue projected for next SC so half of what the market was expecting uh so they're trying to do damage control they've got a drone coming out that's going to be a self-flying drone they put some footage out today of it flying through the air uh of a guy taking off off like about to do a flip on his skis at a at a park and throws it in the air and it gets a spectacular footage on the way up flies just by a ski lift where it could potentially clip a human being and you know damage their face and then gets this great aerial footage so I watch this video and I think first of all GoPro can't even sell a decent camera for under 400 bucks apparently how much is it going to charge for this drone especially in a market where the likes of DJI are selling $600 yeah Phantom cameras that look great yeah um so how are they going to compete with that I have no idea but then you look at this video and it's like how long is it going to be until every freaking ski resort on planet Earth says you can't bring your drone here you idiot because you're going to injure somebody because it's dangerous yeah I mean this is this go Pro is getting into a market where not only are they not going to make any money but they're going to be banned to Oblivion you're not going to be able to fly this product anywhere so I don't see I'm I'm I'm curious to see because as a drone Enthusiast I'm I'm curious to see what they do and how they do it but I don't really have High Hopes just for those reasons uh they also are working on a VR camera okay who's got a VR headset who's going to buy one you know if they're trying to turn around and and fix their uh their their losses their their year-over-year sales declining how on Earth is a uh VR camera going to fix that when most people don't own VR headsets to look at the footage and then they say they got a new Hero 5 coming out which is can to be more convenient and connected is what the CEO said okay the stuff we talked about earlier the pain it is to wirelessly connect to your devices they're going to fix all that they're going to make that work better cuz in my experience nobody can fix it not even Apple at this point so GoPro is in a lot of trouble right now and they're not even addressing the biggest problems with their cameras and you've used GoPros you know this the fisheye lens what are your thoughts on the fisheye lens it's hard to correct and post um and I mean it's great it's it's all right uh as a concept I guess but I was home for Christmas a couple months ago and one of my nieces was there and she I showed her some footage uh from a ski trip last year shot on a GoPro and the first thing she said to me was it looks so flat and the mountains look so small and it's like it wasn't flat and the mountains weren't small I was out in Park City but doesn't matter because it's on a fishee lens which makes everything Beyond two feet in front of your face look insignificant and I know why GoPro uses a fish shy it's so you can just strap the thing on your head not worry about if you got everything in the frame you know that you're going to get your sweet downhill footage and then that's it just set it and go you don't have to worry about it but it looks like crap and they've got to have some way to you know do something whether correct it in software or have swappable lenses or sell models that maybe have less of a fisheye effect or just a flat lens on it that kind of stuff I mean the fact that they haven't addressed that issue which has been there from day one of the GoPro makes me wonder what they're thinking when they're developing their products and the other main problem with the GoPro if you've watched any amateur footage that's not you know shot by their uh sweet uh uh promotional videos is it's shakier than hell right any I don't care what you're doing with it it looks like crap and so that's why you see all these Kickstarter campaigns for these gimbals and and uh stuff like that that make the GoPro footage smooth because the camera itself doesn't have any good Optical image stabilization and the company doesn't sell any way of stabling the footage either and so if I feel like they could address both of those with new products that would expand their market and then people like you and me would look at that and go I want that yeah I would buy one with Optical image stabilization yeah it wouldn't be it wouldn't be too hard to build it in I think um but they I mean they they do Tout The what is it is it 130 degrees of a field of view yeah I think I mean that's like one of their that's their signature thing they've they've turned that they've turned that negative into a positive they say that they're a Content company what money are they making off content they're selling cameras and what they should do is expand their camera lineup they should sell more cameras why not get into the mirrorless large form camera business sell like a durable camera that uh uh is like you know weather resistant kind of thing and compete with the likes of you know those like uh 700 $800 $900 you know and up cameras why not make one of those and sell it to you know Weekend Warriors and people that like to hike and take sweet photos of the stars at night and that kind of stuff why not yeah well I mean you got to see where it came from right I mean you remember do you have you seen like the the Prototype and like the first gen GoPros the the film yeah I mean yeah so I mean they came from humble beginnings I guess I mean the platform itself is kind of prohibitive to these you know great changes not only because of its small form factor but because um it just wasn't designed to kind of last through these technological uh shifts that we're going through especially um you know as Optics and stuff get get better right Apple Apple's Apple's platform is obviously you know built for that it they made it good decision but I mean GoPro is kind of not I feel like um I don't know like if they if they sold like the shuffle as oh no Shuffle the session as like a like a $150 accessory yeah that you could uh you know augment your primary footage and like you know maybe strap it to the back of your head or something yeah and then they would have like software syncing between the two something like that that' be cool yeah I mean yeah you could do that I mean or you could or like you said make make a a flagship robust uh like a steel camera yeah like a mirrorless with swappable lenses that you know uh to me they're not a Content company they're a camera company and there's a huge Market of people that have iPhones and smartphones and they don't think the photos are good enough on them and they'll happily pay for a camera that suits their needs yeah you know uh ever since uh Nikon got rid of the uh nikonos underwater camera yeah it there hasn't really been a viable replacement I mean there's been Po and shoots you can bring underwater and then um a lot of uh housing makers make their their stuff like o Oceanic or whatever yeah um but there hasn't been an interchangeable lens platform that is built to just you know swap on the lens and you know go down beneath the Seas and I feel like more people are doing that now because GoPro uh exists as you know as an entity so more people are taking underwater footage and I feel like it's kind of rekindled this interest in underwater photography and no one's really going after that market I mean there's a few digital you know like pocket pocket cams that um can go down like 30 ft whatever yeah but but it's it's nowhere near the capabilities of GoPro is like 150 ft or something yeah so I mean if GoPro brings that um their weatherproofing technology to a Ste camera I I would probably be interested in it but does does GoPro even have any weatherproofing technology I mean the camera itself isn't waterproof it just goes in a plastic enclosure uh the session is um natively all the previous GoPros it just came in like an airtight plastic casing and you know obviously if you're talking about swappable lenses with a waterproof camera that's a that's a Engineers nightmare like the points of failure there there are just so many things that could go wrong but um you know if you could make something like a plastic shell that wouldn't be obtrusive and could work then why not I I think there's a market for that kind of stuff I think they could expand into it I I don't understand and these are just ideas I mean what the hell do I know right but uh I look at GoPro and it's like where are your ideas what are you doing you know VR and drones really that's yeah not not only are they kind of chasing the field but I think they're choosing the wrong fields to chase you know it's kind of I mean they're they're great I mean they're interesting and intriguing but there's no real you know there's no base there it's a it's a super Niche product and or product that may or may not take off I mean just like just like 3D uh just like 3D video right and in the movies which I absolutely hate hated from the beginning right it's terrible and now that's finally dying in your face James Cameron but I mean you know it's it's like it's a fad and a lot of some of these things are fads I'm not sure if VR is going to be a fad I the hardware that they have out there now or that they're promising is really intriguing have some good stuff like the HCC Vive I don't know if you've seen the uh I don't know if you've seen the the promo stuff for that but I mean that looks that looks pretty incredible but I mean still is cost prohibitive prohibitive to the average consumer so I don't know exactly what gopro's game plan is I feel like Nick Woodman sitting on his yacht and kind of like thinking like you it' be awesome if if I if I had like this camera and I took VR footage and then I slapped on my Oculus and I could watch it back it' be great yeah because we're a Content company right dude totally well and and the thing is the laws of physics say that dedicated Standalone cameras will always be a market that market is not going anywhere no matter how popular the iPhone gets as a camera because you you can only fit so many Optics into that small of a space if you want good photos and good video you're going to need a larger form factor it's just physics it's just reality at that point and until we can get to Crazy levels of Technology it's going to take a while and it may never happen and so there's always going to be a market for these Standalone cameras that offer these Advanced capabilities now you know there are rumors about the iPhone 7 uh at least the plus one having dual uh lens on it for um I guess higher quality photos maybe DSL quality Al that's just something that they say and maybe even optical zoom which would be awesome uh what are your thoughts on that um well from what I heard from Ming quo uh and um you know the other rumors it sounds like Apple's not uh they're going to use the how how do you pronounce it like uh life X I guess you yeah it's an acquisition they made lifx Li lifx whatever anyway yeah so they're that company specializes in multi-lens you know usually like four four lenses or more right um to and they you know they stitch together stuff with software but if it sounds to me like they just used uh lifx technology as far as um uh placing the cameras in the phone and you know just getting them to work together it doesn't seem like they're going to use the the the the image data in conjunction with each other you know what I'm saying they're going to have one lens slave to wide angle and they're going to have another lens that has um optical zoom right uh and you know Optical image stabilization or maybe the whole thing will have will be in like a ois cradle or something but it doesn't sound to me like they're going to you know really leverage that lifx uh Tech to its full advantage not would not yet it's it's the first generation of it yeah I me nobody's done anything like this in a in a in a consumer smartphone yet right well wait didn't um HTC HTC a dual camera noia had one right but Nokia's wasn't a dual lens it was just like one fat like 42 megapixel lens or something like that I believe yeah so I mean I'd really like to see I mean it's a good it's interesting direction that they're going right they're going to they're going to expand the the capabilities of the iPhone to shoot close near and far and I going to be so mad if this is in the seven plus and not the seven I'm going to be so ticked off oh well I mean they're going to have to differ somehow no they don't the big screen is enough to differentiate give me the camera it's see I it is uh it would muddy the water cuz I mean what Ming is saying is they're going to have the seven and then the seven plus and then the seven plus whatever with the with the Dual oh he's saying it's going to be a separate model in like entirely like the the photographer no that's not going to happen no way he said well he said because they got burned the last time um they released a a new product and was were uh Supply constrained right and they're saying that or he's saying from his sort within the supply chain that uh the same story is happening with this dual camera system I don't buy I don't know man no no they will not do that well in both cases it's uh not good for the consumer because they're gonna have to choose yeah you know huge huge phone and then extra for the no the camera Tech will be built in the question is whether they make it just the seven plus and not the seven I would I feel like they would do that yeah I feel like I feel like that's more possible but they're not going to sell two seven pluses with two different types of cameras that's not happening what if they uh what if they don't sell a seven and they only sell a seven plus I'm switching to Android have you used a h clip uh no so I have the H clip uh with uh one side just has like a polarizing lens filter or whatever who cares uh but the other side is a 2X Zoom yeah um and I use that a lot it's easily pocketable and um works with your iPhone just snaps over the uh um the phone itself the only problem is you can't really do it with a case because it fits snugly on the phone but you know those those mountable lenses are a pretty interesting concept I know there's magnetic ones out there too where you can like put a special case or even just like put a sticker a magnet around the uh camera on your phone and then you can just pop this lens on there and it'll stick that's an interesting concept that Apple could potentially explore improving their cameras too I know there's been patents and stuff of that kind of stuff I don't see them doing it you know there's always rumors that like uh Apple is going to make another camera I think it cameras were one of the things that uh Steve Jobs before he died told biographer Walter isson that it was a market he was interested in getting back into um I think they're already in that market pretty well with the iPhone I don't I don't see them selling a standalone camera but to bring it back full circle with GoPro too uh Mikey you were the one that wrote wrote the patent story last year about Apple with a GoPro style uh uh concept it was a patent they had acquired from Kodak and it sent uh it sent gopro's stock tanking when it came out gopro's stock has down like 80% over the last year since that came out yeah it's funny because uh Apple that patent just came with a cache of other patents they acquired from Kodak and um it's that Cube that they made right yeah well um was it the cube I think it was sure it was one of their it was it was CU yeah it was it like no it wasn't Cube it was a rectangle but it looked kind of odd it was kind of GoPro esque it was GoPro esque I would say but I mean you know as soon as the media caught wind of that like oh my God Apple's going to build a GoPro competitor and Destroy GoPro as it you know uh but I don't know I don't I don't see that happening Walter Isaacson as many people note is not in touch with technology and that the autobiography kind of makes suggestions that are bordering on you know false yes Steve Jobs had cracked it the uh the issue to fixing HDTVs right and here we are here we are what four five years later yeah well I mean part of it is the interpretation that Isaacson brought right you know he I mean he just didn't interpret what he couldn't understand or process what jobs was saying in the context of the larger tech industry so I don't know uh but you agree apple is never going to release a standalone camera right not again no although the first one they they launched was pretty sick right no it was not but it was huge and awesome yeah yeah so in uh in sadder not sad but more disappointing news uh vernet X the acclaimed patent troll uh won their case against uh against Apple's FaceTime iMessage and VPN Services uh to the tune of $626 million which is one of the largest damages Awards the tech industry has seen when it comes to uh this kind of uh uh these patent claims so what I mean what do you think about that Neil I mean we we've been covering this kind of stuff for years I mean I didn't I didn't get into writing about Apple to write about legal stuff I if I did I would have applied to like law 360 or something uh but I mean it's it as the biggest company in the world you have a huge Target on your back so um I guess it was inevitable that the lawsuits would come but I mean the these patents have you taken a look at the case at all yeah and here's all you need to know about this case the ruling came from the eastern district of Texas which is where every patent litigation especially from patent trolls is filed because the jury trials there the people that live there for whatever reason don't like big companies I guess and they disproportionately side with the patent troll filing against the bigname company and in this case they award him 600 whatever million dollars in Damages all you need to know is that number will not stand Apple may end up paying vertet X something but it will not be this $650 million because Apple will appeal and the damages will be reduced and it will drag on and on and on and on uh you already see stuff like that going on with the Samsung case Samsung is trying to um petition the Supreme Court to hear the case and discuss intellectual property law which they haven't done in 122 years but the what were the original damages in that case what 1.5 billion or whatever it was 1.02 okay 1.02 for for the for the further case that they're arguing yeah and now that's been haved more than haved right so this is going to drag on it's going to be a process it's going to be whatever but you know these these patent trolls that don't actually make any products like vernet X um they they don't sell anything they just had an idea and they patented it and they're abusing it and they're also abusing the legal system because in the eastern district of Texas that's where these things go through so it's not fair and it's stupid it's uh do you find it the epitome of capitalism that vernet X is a public company yeah that's uh that's a pretty bad one I got to say yeah yeah so I mean uh vernet next is a failed company right I mean they had these patents and they they couldn't make it materialize in the consumer market and so they said hey why not uh you know some other people are uh having the having more success with the features that we tried to have success with right we were we were here first so we we need to sue them and uh yeah I mean they've they are successful at doing it they've they've forced Microsoft to settle twice already um and they have uh they have they have a bunch of cases with you know a bunch of different huge tech companies so I mean it's a it's a profitable business model but is it a business model that we should let stand I don't I don't think so yeah it doesn't really do anything to to drive uh Market Innovation it doesn't really it it actually hinders it so I'm I I I agree with everything you just said it's uh it's pretty crazy but it's interesting because I mean Apple uh the they won an appeal and they had the initial verdict vacated which was 368 million or something 368 million and then uh well when when the appeal sad vacated that they open the door to new claim construction so basically that means uh uh royalties on you know ongoing infringement and from 2012 to 20 to whenever 2015 when the second case was heard um Apple of course popped with the iPhone uh five and especially 6 and 6s right so I mean all of those products are lumped in now and it just gave them a chance to just snowball it even more yeah it and of course the uh it was a unanimous decision by the jury which is I don't know it's kind of fish fish kind of fishy but uh you know it is what it is I guess they'll just be giving Apple will be giving whatever money they get from Samsung to veridex I I would love to go to what is it Tyler County or whatever the Eastern Division where the where these cases go on and I want to get to know the people there like what is it in the water they are they are very tech savvy they're techsavvy Community they know all about tech yeah there there clearly salty folks there that uh don't like big business and want to stick it to the Man or something I don't know what's in the water there but I would that would be something that I would enjoy just going there and getting to know the locals in uh the eastern district of Texas good barbecue I here well this has been episode 54 of the Apple Insider podcast uh with me today was Neil Hughes Neil where can people find you on the interweb you can read my uh musings at Apple Insider and I'm also on Twitter at this is Neil will there be GoPro rants on Twitter uh only if people tweet at me then maybe okay please tweet at Neil about uh how great you think GoPro is as a company um and I am Mikey Campbell you can uh find me on Apple Insider and also on Twitter @ Mikey Campbell 81 have a good one\n"