**Expert Advice on Troubleshooting and Reliability**

When it comes to troubleshooting and reliability issues with our vehicles, there are many factors at play. One key aspect is understanding when a system is "normal" versus when it's not within spec. As Kurt noted, even seemingly minor issues can escalate into major problems if left unchecked. This is where experience, knowledge, and the right diagnostic tools come in.

Kurt's personal experience with his wife's MDX serves as a great example of this. Despite being out of warranty after 11 years, he was able to find a trusted mechanic who specialized in Honda vehicles. The mechanic's familiarity with the car's inner workings allowed him to identify and address potential issues before they became major problems. This highlights the importance of seeking out experts, whether through dealerships or independent mechanics, who have experience with specific makes and models.

Wiring is another critical aspect that can lead to reliability issues. With so much wiring in modern vehicles, even minor kinks or damage can cause intermittent problems. This is particularly true for electric motors, which are often swapped out in the event of a failure. However, if the motor itself is not faulty, it may simply be a matter of finding and addressing the root cause of the issue.

Manufacturing defects or supplier issues can also play a significant role in reliability concerns. Kurt noted that suppliers are sometimes pushed to meet price targets at the expense of quality, which can lead to problems down the line. This underscores the importance of reliable data collection and reporting, as manufacturers need accurate information to identify and address potential issues.

Calling 1-800 numbers or seeking advice from online forums and communities can be an effective way to resolve issues. Many people have experienced similar problems with their vehicles, and sharing knowledge and expertise can help find solutions. However, it's essential to report any issues to the manufacturer, as this data is critical in understanding patterns and trends.

For those looking for a reliable vehicle, compiling data on reliability and common issues can be incredibly helpful. Consumer Reports plays a vital role in providing information on this front, allowing car buyers to make informed decisions about their next purchase. By sharing stories like Kurt's and highlighting the importance of expert advice, troubleshooting, and manufacturer data, we hope to empower our listeners with the knowledge they need to navigate the world of automotive reliability.

**A Word from Our Producers**

We'd like to extend a huge thank you to Dave Abrams, Andrew Iversen, Anatoly Chumak, and Belize for their tireless efforts in producing this episode of Talking Cars. Their dedication to bringing expert advice and reliable information to our listeners is truly appreciated. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, please don't hesitate to reach out – we're always here to help.

**Stay Tuned**

Don't miss next week's episode of Talking Cars, where we'll be discussing [insert topic here]. As always, check the show notes for more information on the vehicles and topics covered in this episode. Thank you again for tuning in, and we look forward to seeing you next time!

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhi and welcome back I'm Mike Quincy I'm Kelly Funkhouser and I'm John linkoff so the car on tap for today's podcast your favorite podcast and mine is the 2023 Toyota Crown this is Toyota's replacement of the Avalon a vehicle that was uh liked and admired by many of us here at Consumer Reports uh we rented a super Swanky two-tone Platinum version from Toyota and Mr Link of I'm going to throw to you and you can please tell us does the crown get the Royal Treatment um no not for me um it's so yeah like you said it's a replacement for the Avalon I'm happy to see the Avalon Move Along Shuffle off because I just didn't like the way it eventually changed it so I know you said a lot of people liked it and I know like Keith Barry and Jeff Bartlett a number of people really like that experience the crown is is kind of different I don't know if it's because of the the the target audience now is getting older um I mean it's a sedan so that's a dying Market to begin with and not in people in the sense of just sedans are dying off but you know it was a low vehicle it got lower over the years it got more swoopy so the crown is sort of like an SUV it's a little raised up it has a a higher a bigger Greenhouse um a little more a little easier to get into the seat it's it's sort of like a step across versus a step down into into the car um the Platinum one you mentioned so it's a hybrid Max powertrain turbocharged four-cylinder 2.4 liter turbocharged four cylinder 340 horsepower EPA says estimated 30 miles per gallon the regular versions and we're going to be buying one of the regular versions uh that gets a 236 horsepower 2.5 liter four-cylinder big difference CVT whereas the Max gets a six-speed automatic and that the turbo engine you know they work really well the cvts tend to and we haven't driven this obviously the CVT they tend to accentuate the the again they can get a little noisy exactly but the weird thing is again going back it competes against cars like and you know good notes like some of these notes that you gave us Acura tailx Cadillac ct5 Chrysler 300 Dodge Charger Nissan Maximum a category that's going away right no more 300 no more charger no more Maxima so it's it's why you don't see this the sedan um I mean it's an interesting vehicle but it's going to be I think polarizing because it's not a sedan it's not an SUV and it's got the two-tone and it's a hybrid it's it's kind of trying to be all things all people it's kind of like the Performance Hybrid you also have a green aspect of the hybrid uh technology because as we've seen with a lot of car makers sometimes they're going to accentuate performance sometimes they're going to accentuate fuel economy um but but you know what it comes down to is kind of the livability of this car now we've had some you know interesting evolutions of Toyota's Interiors their infotainment systems you spent some time with the Kelly why don't you give us give us an idea what what it's like inside the car it definitely feels more luxurious in the realm of Toyota right so you know it's not your entry level Camry or Corolla per se the interior feels more sophisticated quiet smoother um and it has a large you know screen in the middle so it's got a big display which will be helpful I mean again depending on who the target audience and buyer is of this vehicle perhaps that's something they'll want but overall you know if it feels like a a more elevated Toyota just in general yeah otherwise you know it's it's got the general Toyota controls and displays and everything so it's going to be familiar especially to previous Toyota owners I mean a few hard buttons along with the touch screen yes yes that's the little things in life that we that we actually really appreciate right so those types of things so yeah it's going to be familiar and comfortable especially if someone's looking for a new car equipped with all of the latest and greatest safety features um but want something still you know comfortable that they may have had and like John you said that this Mark or this this sector is kind of dying right and so this is still a viable option if you're looking for that here's one yeah and I mean to your point Kelly it's it's as if it's it's kind of the Buick of Toyota's lineup you know so you have Chevy Buick caddy let's I mean you know the three tiers Buick is luxury but luxury light this has like a Lexus feel sort of like a Toyota Venza you know it's it's nicer like you said not not a Camry feel not not you know a Corolla feel definitely or anything like that um it has for example like the the double hinged arm rest center armrest that you only saw on Lexus right so it's in here but it's a little flimsier feeling right but but but it puts this little detail little details right so you have this kind of mid-level a person who may not want to make that statement of Lexus or they want the value of Toyota you know I mean the reliability well they're reliable they want the reliability the brand of the Toyota family and they want to save money so Lexus for example you can get in Lexus NX for the same base price front-wheel drive Lexus NX for the same price as the entry level Crown but that only comes with two uh the first and second complementary maintenance maintenance schedule maintenance services when it's six months five thousand miles one at 12 months ten thousand that's it Toyota you get two years of schedule maintenance two years twenty five thousand you know you just get more for your money with with this vehicle so I can see why people want a little nicer but without going to the luxury dollars luxury brand you know that that Lexus level of of cost and appearance yeah but isn't it a tough sell to Tout like scheduled me like it's a Toyota it's a Lexus it probably didn't meet a lot of things it's not like you're selling an Alfa Romeo or something like that where that that could be a real so so but you know maintenance and reliability will will separate you know so you're not going to go there and know the service writer because they should be reliable right but you you know oil changes you go you know they're gonna you could get banged for a hundred bucks here you know if it's if it's uh fluid change this uh cabin filter there you know you walk out 300 for basic you know basic maintenance just to keep it and not even keep it running just doing the basics to it right yeah so two years of that you know you save 700 800 000 versus okay you get a couple at six months and and 12 months that's really the infancy of the car not exactly a new model right the crown has been in existence in the past but it it is you know kind of a quite a bit of an overhaul right right and so the first year it's an old name it's an old name but exactly so the first year of any model you know there's higher likelihood that's that you're going to need to do something so that does come you know definitely factors in certainly now it it's interesting because we're bringing up um the comparison to the Avalon which some people would suggest was kind of an old person's car I mean that you just call it what it is you know compared to kind of like a Buick um so with the styling of the crown it's pretty Jazzy and it's you know Toyota's attempts to get younger but but if they they still have you know an older audience and John you put up a good point about the crown being you know higher off the ground easier to get in and out of but but I would counter that helping an older driver because I found that the visibility in the crown really wanting the sloped rear back has has very limited um uh rear visibility uh I thought the whole uh cabin was very confining the dashboard was higher the store still seemed higher certainly compared to the Avalon so so what wouldn't that the styling approach I think of of the crown hurt an older buyer I think some of it is seat positioning because I know and not like I'm stalking you but knowing getting into cars after you drive you sit in a much more upright raised position than I do right I I kind of like Jake Fisher like I said close and high so I sit I sit kind of vertically but I I sit lower to the ground lower down so it didn't it didn't bother me as much um but then again we'll talk to someone like Jeff Bartlett who you know his build his his waves he always comments on vehicles he has a really hard time because he's like long in the Torso and short and leg so his seating position is different it is a a reason why you go and you drive these you don't just right just put an order in and get it um it I think that if you were a person who was happy in the Avalon you would appreciate the changes in the crown but you may not like the styling of it because it's it's out there compared to an Avalon I don't appreciate the Avalon I didn't like the way it was because I just felt this felt the the just compressed in it so what you saw in the crown I saw in the Apple interesting because the Avalon the Avalon is a was kind of a traditional sedans or a boxy-ish but but a generally a lower dash lower Stills lots of glass area I always felt that the Avalon was like you know any any Honda Accord or Toyota Camry that we've driven over the last 20 years you know very open and Airy and that's but but it's just interesting you have a different perspective on it yeah it was the Avalon not the Camry right but also the es said Lexus ES I mean it's just it is just it's it's small things like that which again speaks to the need for test driving in terms of practicality though it the the crown I think looks like a hatchback but it but it isn't it is this this little trunk a little tiny it's that's not a small trunk but it's a it's a small opening and and when I when I looked at the style it just reminded me so much of a Honda Accord cross cross tour but but that was a hatchback and you could lift up the back and I'm you know I'm wondering why would Toyota make it look like a hatchback but not give it the practicality yeah I I'm overall a little bit confused also by the finished product right with the it's not a SUV it doesn't have the hatch it's a sedan but it's definitely not you know as lifted as a typical SUV it's it's lower although I think a few inches higher than Avalon um and yeah inside I also felt a little bit more on the claustrophobic side um I know they I think they use the word panoramic in their preview of this vehicle a panoramic uh roof I felt that it was three individual small pieces of glass and not necessarily what I would consider panoramic right so there was a lot of you know hard surfaces and it did definitely feel a little bit more closed in so yeah the the overall finished product I think has some good qualities but also as one piece is um maybe a little bit confusing to me you know in terms of of of the finished product I mean we did get a pre-production model so you've got cut it a little slack but for me I noticed that there was too many Bland hard plastics the turn signal stocks felt flimsy there was there's visible mold lines and slightly rough edges on the door panels I thought this is not fifty thousand dollars nice and again this is the top of the line model it's pre-production but for that much money I'm thinking I want it to look a little bit nicer inside well I would I would say that it's a good example of the touch points and the cost versus the technology because it's full has full Adas feature set you know it's it's not even like the Toyotas where you have to add on an option to get blinds but I mean so I mean Kelly you could speak to that in Greater detail but also the powertrain I mean it's whether it's cost you know whatever whatever it is it's it's it's positioned as a premium product because of the technology with it and the visible stuff looks good but I think it's more and more common now whatever the whoever the manufacturer is that it's the below the below the eye line stuff is where you see the the cost cutting right um yeah I think it's definitely a premium product for Toyota right again if we're not going for the badge name of Alexis or going for those aesthetic you know look at me type of features right then the interior is is makes sense in terms of it doesn't have all of these extra wood grain and you know all this this other stuff uh but again if it's you're looking to upgrade your vehicle for the latest and greatest technology right then I think that it does make a lot of sense in terms of premium for Toyota now in in terms of John brought up Adas uh when you think about the performance that you've seen with with Toyota and Lexus products you know how do you think the crown is is gonna is gonna do when it comes to that yes so it has their uh safety system 3.0 I can't remember if it's Plus or not but uh when Alexis uses one and Toyota uses not one so yeah the three version of it uh which is their uh one that they've had in their past few models that have been released so it's likely to do uh very you know well in terms of it has a lot of things um not top of the list in terms of capabilities and performance of you know Lane centering and adaptive cruise control type of you know next level features but it has all of the things that you want in terms of safety um and and convenience I was disappointed that they did not add a direct driver monitoring camera to this system especially because prior to speaking with them we had seen in one of their press images a mocked up version that did have that driver camera behind the steering wheel on the column right and so then um confirming with them if it was going to or not they said it will not be coming to the crown so definitely you know a disappointment and not getting that camera definitely a safety system there but it will have all of the other safety features but but you know when the when the rubber meets the road we're actually driving this uh one of the things that we mentioned in our in our first drive which is live on consumerreports.org is uh we said kind of concluding well it's it's pleasant but it's unexciting and that is that that was a statement based on on the the the Platinum model which has the higher horsepower engine and I'm thinking about the one that we're gonna we're gonna be buying a limited model which has less horsepower and so I'm like if the top of the line model that we drove is pleasant but unexciting very less exciting model yeah I'm not sure that's going to pan out it it's um I mean is it what the market wants on that that spot I mean perhaps the bit in the jaded sense that we could say is that look you know every vehicle that comes through from an automatic factor is is the top of line trim so you almost want to I mean I I want to and since we're not testing them you know so it's not a oh this is affecting its score by that way of thinking but like okay fine you know they're loading it up to make a good impression but what's like you said rubber meets where where is the the real meat going to be and it's going to be in the version we get so maybe it's easy just to dismiss the overallness of this one limited not limited trim but the one model which will sell the fewer far fewer uh models um numbers excuse me you know and look at this other ones like okay maybe that will be actually more exciting because it does everything well competently for a better price and gets better mode and such so I could see that sense of yeah maybe the more mainstream middle level one is going to be an exciting vehicle and this one just like oh it's trying to sell too much right I I think I think you bring up a really really logical good point uh because the limited model that we're going to be buying is is going to get a better fuel economy uh it's going to have the smaller 19-inch Wheels compared to the 21s on on the Platinum which sort of looked cool but not sure it really improved Rider handling that much practicality um and but but the calling card of the old Avalon was certainly its fuel economy and and the at least by the EPA numbers the the new Crown isn't going to be pushing that boundary that far so so you know we're gonna have to see how from the hybrid from the Avalon hybrid right absolutely you're right yeah and and that and and you know and all disclosure that's that was the the Avalon that that many of us at the track fell in love with it it was you know great you know 42 two miles per gallon overall our testing for a pretty large honest five passenger vehicle that had great reliability not exciting to drive I'm not going to tell you for a second right that it set the world on fire yeah but but I just I just loved the livability of this car so much um so so it's going to be interesting to see when we get our test model you know how how are fuel economy numbers hold up uh how the ride and handling are affected by the by the smaller wheels of The Limited model um and and you know we we only can can rent these cars from from manufacturers for only a couple weeks so we're going to have our test car for months and months and months I'm gonna say if that I mean you know it was hard to get into this and not experience it and for me I didn't experience it with my kids I didn't experience it with you know my you know my daughter and her co uh you know her teammates on the lacrosse team and throwing their sticks in the back so it could be different when you're using it like that versus just trying to kind of become familiar and getting a feel with it right which is again why we don't rate a car based on the one week with a press car exactly exactly and that's the big difference between consumer reports and just about everybody else uh this is a big time for Toyota they just put out the new Prius which was mentioned on another podcast personally I like the styling of the Prius more than the Crown but again the same idea very swoopy very aerodynamic and uh you know so Toyota's got has been busy last couple years in their product development department uh and again this is our first impressions of the new Crown uh check out consumerreports.org for the first drive which is live and uh and you know get an idea of exactly what we think about this one that we read from Toyota and what might be coming soon with the limited trim that we are in the process of buying right now and uh yeah so will it be a crown jewel we'll find out sure that's all the crown jokes that I can do for today's podcast and the audience just gave a sigh of relief So speaking of audience we're gonna move on to an audience question we love your questions text 30 seconds videos send them all to talkingcars icloud.com that's talking cars at icloud.com and we have a question here from Kurt who writes I've noticed service techs seem overwhelmed by vehicle Electronics with intermittent problems like my Subaru Outback has they don't seem to have the tools to diagnose those systems and refuse to accept any evidence or of glitches I've experienced videos scan data Etc fully electric vehicles will only make things worse what's your take on the situation and any solutions so so Kurt's definitely thrown it down about a potential future electric problems and EVS um kind of a bold prediction but but Kelly what what what what kind of answer do you have for Kurt yeah so there's actually quite a lot to unpack in that comment there um first being that it definitely sounds like he's had a rough go around with trying to solve some sort of problem he has with his vehicle um and so I I talked to some of our guys in the shop here and got there and put on what their experience has been in terms of diagnosing um you know Electronics or screen infotainment related issues and um and you know what what info is is you know captured in perhaps a code that can be read and then you know used for diagnosing and it kind of varies is what I what I learned is that there um is a there are a lot of issues that throw very generic codes um and so kind of drilling down into that especially if it's not an issue that is persistent maybe it's a glitch or the screen turns off or freezes or lags or something and it kind of you know sometimes fixes itself it's definitely harder to do um but if if you know you're having issues with getting it diagnosed at the dealer definitely call the customer service line for the manufacturer the 1-800 number um and oftentimes they're able to escalate the issue they'll still work with you know whatever local dealer it is you'll give them that info and they can kind of escalate it from the back end on their side to see you know if there's something that can be done of course you know you can try another dealer if it's not too far to to get to as well um and then I think the second part of that comment really was about is this going to be a bigger problem in the future right with electric vehicles and the answer is yes and no right so so much I know as more electronics and Technology are put into Vehicles there's more things that can go wrong that can be more elusive you know if they're software they're not Hardware this nut and bolt you know type of this broke um it's it's definitely harder to diagnose and um you know look into but also with electric vehicles there's some issues that won't be as prevalent like the nuts and bolts right if you if you don't have all those those components then um you're not going to have issues with them so I think there's still going to be issues there's just going to be different issues but I don't necessarily think either that it's going to be more issues they're just different types there's this the software harder to diagnose types of issues for sure but John we gotta have a little a little empathy for hurt problem with the car takes to the dealer he was like I can't replicate right yeah I mean we all know people like going to the doctor and your systems go away exactly right it's a you know normal normal spec or within spec you know is the is the general term um I I would say so for Kurt we don't know if it's warranty or not so if it's under warranty that could be an issue too they're not allowed to spend so much time on it can't replicate the problem wipe his hands move on to something that's going to bring in more money at that point either try a different dealer if it's out of warranty definitely find a Subaru specialist I mean that that's first off I you know there's we take my wife's MDX to a guy in town and he's a Honda guy you know so but not not a it's out of dealer not a deal it's out of warranty it's 11 years old but he knows you know if you're doing you're you know you're doing a timing belt do valve lash too you know little things like that that but he's not selling extra things that the dealer is selling uh you know big big upsells um I would say in like like you were talking about Kelly with the EVS I think wiring will be an issue because wiring is heavy so they go so the you know the thinnest possible wires for weight because there's so much wiring in the cars today that could be an issue because if it's if there's a kinked wire somewhere during assembly that's where you start having all kinds of weird intermittent into issues that come and go tracking that down is very challenging um and then you know the weird electronic things the screens Etc you know but a the motor is a small is a small it's a you know small electric motor that can be swapped out you're not swapping at the gas engine right you know the same way um I think a lot of it just also comes down to look what's the manufacturer is is pushing the supplier are they holding them over a barrel trying to get it for the cheapest price possible that's where you're going to run to the same type of issues that you would run into with a gasoline or a diesel-powered car or whatever if this supplier is trying to meet a price and they can't meet that price you're going to have a problem right because if you look at Nitsa recalls for example it's all it's not always many times as the supplier realize this at some point of check and then they notified the manufacturer it's not that they were they bolted the car incorrectly was that the part was there was a problem with the supplier and you want to assume it's going to be something about price they were trying to squeeze out every penny well and I'll just reiterate calling that 1-800 number right because oftentimes especially in our experience right we're bringing these cars to the dealer in their their new cars and they're unfamiliar and they don't have experience or parts or whatever and calling that number just kind of brings it to another level of maybe they've heard this before you know your dealer has not heard of this but maybe they have a oh I know what you're talking about this is familiar this is how another dealer solved it right so just escalating it up just to that one level I think is going to be big and you know go online go to the Subaru forums uh type in your question type in your issue or more often than not you're going to find somebody else that also has the issue well like I mean to go to what you said reporting it is is great because that's the only way that the manufacturer is capturing data to so they don't know about they don't know about it and that's that's key as well the dealer you I mean not to knock the dealer but who knows where their information goes up to you're calling the manufacturer you know you're pushing it up higher for their database right so yeah right and good advice when you talk about you know compiling data looking at reliability issues hmm that sounds like did some reports which is what we do and definitely report it on the reliability we want to know about that uh but this is this is what we try to do to help uh Consumer Reports members and our our fans out there in podcast land find a good reliable car whether it's newer it's used and you know Kurt we really appreciate you um uh you know sharing your story with us and um that is gonna going to wrap it up for this episode of talking cars uh which was obviously expertly produced by super producer Dave Abrams edited by Andrew I really like hockey Belize and of course Anatoly the great chumsky uh as always check the show notes for more information on the vehicles and topics that we discussed just a reminder keep your questions coming talkingcars icloud.com thanks so much for tuning in and we'll see you next week thank you\n"