**The Apple Insider Podcast: Episode 93**

In this episode of the Apple Insider podcast, Mike discusses his experience with the upcoming MacBook Pro, specifically the 13-inch model, which is currently shipping. One advantage of the touch bar, according to Mike, is that your hands are already at the keyboard, making it easy to reach up and use the touch bar without having to move too far.

The people who know Mike might be surprised by his enthusiasm for the MacBook Pro, but he's in complete agreement with Apple's design principles. The machine is solid, and Apple did the best they could with what they had available to them. As a result, the MacBook Pro is a great option for anyone looking for a reliable laptop.

To give listeners a better understanding of the MacBook Pro, Mike has an unboxing video featuring the 13-inch model with a classic physical function row. The box is wrapped and cellophane-wrapped, but what's interesting is how Apple goes to great lengths to make the user feel welcome when they first open the laptop. From the black Therma form that cradles the laptop to the literature on top of the unboxing kit, every detail shows that Apple wants to make a good impression.

But one feature that really stood out to Mike was the loud speakers in the MacBook Pro. In the keynote presentation, Apple showed off how they'd redesigned the speaker system to make it more efficient and louder than previous models. And according to Mike, this is not just a marketing gimmick – the speakers get 58% louder than the last model, which is a significant improvement.

The design of the speaker enclosure is crucial when it comes to sound reproduction. As Mike notes, the size of the enclosure affects how well you can move air and push it back in when retraction happens. By redesigning the speaker enclosure to match the physical size needed for this movement, Apple has managed to create a more efficient system that produces better sound.

For those who are considering purchasing a MacBook Pro, Mike emphasizes the importance of trying out the machine before making a decision. The best way to get a sense of whether the laptop is right for you is to sit down and use it for yourself. If possible, try using the keyboard, which is different from previous models, and examine the screen's viewing angles. Listen to the speakers and type a few words into the notepad – in this case, the first couple of sentences of War and Peace.

Finally, Mike invites listeners to find him on Twitter @MikeWorthy, where he'll be sharing his thoughts and insights about Apple products. He can also be found at appleinsider.com, where he'll be posting updates and news every weekday.

**Note:** The article is based on the provided transcription, which includes a few phrases that seem to be out of context or incomplete. In this version, I've tried to fill in the gaps and develop each paragraph into a cohesive section.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to episode 93 of the Apple Insider podcast where we talk about all things mac Apple iPhone iPod iPad and more joining me is Mike Worley Mike how you doing hello back from my super secure bunker in Northern Virginia your lair as it were all right well before we get into talking about that I want to talk about deals two of Apple's newly unveiled 13-in MacBook Pros without a touch bar are in stock at our good friends B&H with no tax outside of New York and you can also save $400 off a mid 2015 MacBook Pro with no tax outside New Jersey or New York or pick up a 12in Macbook at $50 to $100 off a 13in air 1.6 GHz 8 gig 256 gig so forth is 949 and and so we've got all these deals and more in the show notes but what's cool about this is if you're seeking a MacBook Pro and you want a very capable machine but without the touch bar and and some of these kinds of things uh and still want the luxury of Mag safe too then this 15-inch deal may be the way to go for you the uh if you want that 13in without the touch bar we have that available here also and that that you can save about um well let's see the the 13in without a touch bar is in stock and its price is of course $149 99 and because you don't have to pay the tax uh to New York because you're outside of New York you save about $120 at least upfront uh taxes being of course your own responsibility to your own local uh and you can save $20 when you add Apple Care to that purchase so so basically we've got some interesting deals and we're going to make them available in the show notes now Mike obviously we've been talking about how important headphones are especially with the absence of the headphone jack on the iPhone 7 yeah so what are people doing to solve this this problem well this critical lack there is the Apple W1 ship which they use across two beats products and the airpods uh the only problem with that is only two of those products are shipping only the Beats products are actually shipping right now the airpods uh been a little dramatic on the airpods the Chinese supply chain initially indicated that they would be pushing to January which we got that news and it didn't make a lot of sense to us so we decided to delve into it a little bit using the Apple Insider Resource Network for lack of better term and we were told by sources inside Apple corporate mind you that there was no way that the airpods are going to get pushed past Christmas right because just in terms of of you know projected sales that would kind of stink for Apple wouldn't it I think from an adoption standpoint I don't think that would be great the while the beats the Power Beats are just now hitting the stores and if you order a pair from Apple online right now you'll get them sometime next week those are a little bit later than they thought they were going to be so there was some there was some speculation that there might be an issue with the W1 but the fact that the Beats products are shipping and the airpods are not no one really knows what's going on with that so I would suspect that we're going to see these I'm guessing the first week of December um but I'm fairly confident in the information that we are given by our sources that tell us that we'll see them well in time for the Christmas season right and retail locations do have perhaps a couple of pairs for customer demonstration so uh they're not out yet as I understand it the we pulled 10 stores and six of the stores had demo units waiting for the word from corporate to go ahead and start demonstrating um I have not had a chance to go and verify any of these locations in person to see if there's any behind glass or anything like that but I presume that there is not at this time okay so airpods power beads 3 and beats solo 3 wireless which are the on ear headphones are the ones that are going to have the W1 chip yeah that's all that's been announced right now in the W1 now what exactly has Apple has in mind for long term of the W1 which debuted in the iPhone 7 I really don't know and no one's really sure is it going to be licensed don't know is it going to be apple on Beats only don't know we'll see I got a the W1 isn't in the iPhone 7 the W1 is in the headphones themselves right it debuted alongside the iPhone not I guess I should be more clear it debuted alongside the iPhone 7 not in the iPhone 7 so yeah um and it's it's you know we we've had uh completely uninformed speculation that the W1 could be licensed out under the same kind of of process that the chips are licensed out for mfi program and hom kid and so forth yeah there's just no evidence of that right now it does make sense that they would do that but we haven't even heard anything in the rumor change suggesting that that's going to happen anytime soon right and it would my guess would be that Supply is so low at this moment that it it's that conversation hasn't begun because you couldn't get them if you wanted Bluetooth is a funny technology it's driven by a bunch of different companies and there's different classes of Bluetooth that determine range and power and well well it's it's not well just it's not classes it's level of the spec right revisions of the spec so yeah there's Arata there's Bluetooth classes there there's so many different V when you can say Bluetooth but it's this big bucket well there's there's Bluetooth 2.1 which gave us avrcp and a2dp and then Bluetooth 3 which was the beginning of having Bluetooth data that then passed over to Wi-Fi for bigger data transmission then Bluetooth 4 that gave us the the Lo tooth low energy spec 4.1 is a part of that but you get better range and better battery life kind of thing well even on top of that there's still AATA integral to the to the protocol from Bluetooth 4 to Bluetooth 4.1 there have been nine AATA which they can be implemented in software they can be implemented in Hardware which adds an additional complexity on top of compatibility from Bluetooth to blooth it's it's a very complex situation and I I think that that has more to do with the W1 since the W1 does work with Bluetooth in general it has to right because it has the iPhone it rides on top of Bluetooth so I I just think that I think that apple is taking a little bit of extra time to make sure that the S the software works well with the hardware and and that the the W1 and the in the earpods and the earpods themselves are compatible with a wide array of devices I think that's what all this is I don't think it's anything more sinister than that okay good to know that that's that's where you stand I was was thinking that uh you know they they've had some units out in reviewer's hands not in our hands of course but they've had them with some people and and theyve functioned so it's the difference between something that's functional and works for most people in a review situation versus being widely rolled out and everyone uncovering something so they' they've found a few things they're getting ready yeah I I believe so too and if you look at the reviews of the airpods they're all they all happen about the same same time so it's not like it's just one pair of airpods getting passed from venue to venue and there all were the airpods with the iPhone 7 the airpods with an iPad or the airpods with a Mac they they really didn't stray that far from airpods and apple they really didn't look at any third parties in any depth so I I think that that that compatibility is what this is about what this is sold for right if you're buying an iPhone and you're interested in the the the headphones the airpods that have the W1 chip you're not buying those W1 airpods to work with an Android device well no you're not but they do advertise it is compatible with any Bluetooth device surely and and so it will be but you know if you're handing them to a reviewer what what are you're handing here's your review kit right here's the kit that you're meant to go and review here's the reviewer's guide that tells you how we want you to look at it and what things we want to highlight to you that you should mention and the things you should test right they they lay out and prepare the reviewer so that you you've got it all together and what you're doing and know what they want to show you right so they're not going to give you an Android phone and say hey go test it with this their intention is show it off with our latest thing because we think that's how our consumers are going to buy the thing anyway well sure and I get that but my point was is that any issue that it might have with a third-party piece of Hardware wouldn't necessarily have been revealed in the first initial Impressions and reviews of the hardware that's all yeah something that they know and test for anyway right yeah so absent those ones being widely available other people are introducing Bluetooth because now is a great time to jump in and take advantage of that opportunity if you're a manufacturer well sure master and dynamic have got their MW 50s that they rolled out this week um metal and leather of all things they they're that's no surprise if you're a fan of Master Dy no it's they're very old time looking they're they're not like you know the huge plastic muffs popularized in the 70s or anything like that no um they're they're premium they're primarily made of stainless steel cowhide leather headband lambskin leather wrapped around memory phone earpads um and they say that they're lighter than their MW 60s which you know they are those are pretty Mammoth but they they're also a higher-end product there's 40 mm bellium drivers with a range between 5 and 30,000 Hertz twin microphones for voice input um and they say that they'll go 16 hours on the battery which I'm reasonably impressed with and they have Bluetooth 4.1 which has the better power management and aptex audio which you know you get for free anyway and 33t range which is fairly standard for Bluetooth audio uh especially for a 4.1 system they're they're 449 bucks but that's competitive in the market segment that they're comp that they're in this this you shouldn't look at this and go oh my God I'm never going to buy those because they're a boutique brand they are a boutique brand but that's the thing is you there has to be a range of products right I mean there's the $5 headphones you can get at the convenience store and you won't hear much and you won't hear much of anything or you can you can be that audio file and get the higher-end stuff that's made of wood and not plastic and and and deal with the resonance in the wood rather than resonance in plastic or a metal casing so yeah and you know if if manufacturers never make the very best thing that they know how to make then they never know how to translate and and trickle that quality down to the next lower model that eventually becomes cost affordable to you right if if you never make the very best thing then you don't know where to cost reduce from I am not an audio file but I respect the people that are and I understand most of their choices I mean the the $10,000 USB cables I don't quite get well not withstanding that so Neil Hughes esteemed Neil Hughes who hasn't been on the show for a little bit but he'll be back I promise we've been a little busy yeah Neil uses master and dynamic headphones and he normally uses their microphone attached to their headphones when he podcasts with this show and he is a fan of them why did he spend the money on master and dynamic headphones because they they were not provided by Apple and cider corporate they were provided by Neil Hughes he bought them because he lives very very minimalist like you know he has very few possessions in life and he makes sure that the ones that he has are the very best the ones that bring him Joy they do and he will tell you if you ever stop him if you can't ever stop him he's too busy but if you can never stop him he will tell you master and dynamic that's the way to go cuz that's what he likes so very cool for master and dynamic that they've introduced this and we'll see if Neil replaces his own set also available in Apple Stores now are headphones from the black ey peas FR men will I IM along with models from Kendall Jenner and Naomi gamble these are the IM plus buttons which are are Bluetooth wireless earbuds that are available at Apple Store stores and nean Marcus and Bloomingdales this being an audio mostly medium the best way you can imagine these is Apple's ear pods with a stack of two quarters on the outside of them no no no they're they're they're shiny brushed metal uh caps on the end the size of two quarters they're they're brushed in a circular Sunray kind of effect that that leads you to sort of take the queue as if they were a grooved vinyl record they are attractive they they they do strongly resemble some of the other products at will IM has produced this is not his first audio device I believe this is his sixth um he's also you know coincidentally or or not he's working on planet of the apps that that curated apps development show that apple is partnering with to get that done yeah so it's uh the things are growing and the nice thing that Apple has done with USBC and Bluetooth is they've really pushed the adoption of the Technologies and Bluetooth is is prevalent now USBC will get there and we're going to talk a little bit more about that coming up later but this is exactly the kind of thing that Apple Driving the market forward helps to promote right now what's important about these bluetooth earbuds is is let's talk about just what they look like besides so they've got these metal discs the metal discs are magnetic so that they help keep the earbuds secure around your neck when you're not using them they attach together it's convenient um sometimes magnetic headphones like that actually use that as a a way to turn them off so that they power save when they're not in use I don't know if these do that oh yeah no I have a pair that's made by a company called puregear and the puregear ones which are very affordable um use the magnet at the ends of the earbuds when they stick together they turn themselves off so that they power save okay yeah it's pretty cool a can's kind of guy got this big old manly head with these really tiny baby ear canals so any kind of earbud is no one wants to hear about ear canals no probably not they're clean though so you that's a plus you say that um the the thing that you in terms of earbuds is you need to get yourself some decs okay Debs are earbuds and they come with a thermofoam um earpiece that you you mold to fit your ear you heat them up and then you put them in and mash them in they adjust to your ear canal and then when they cool they they fit perfectly in your ears only H okay that's kind of cool that way you have earphones that are customized for your ears you're striking a dim recollection in that I believe I've heard of those but have not you know we talked about them on the podcast a couple times with everything else that goes through my head I you know it gets stored for future use at some point yeah so the W1 let's let's be clear the w1s have no wires at all the the the uh IM plus which is the Kendall Jenner Willie IM and Naomi Campbell project the buttons as they're called uh they have a cable that goes between the two ears yep which is the which is most common in wireless earbuds yeah but let's be care there there is a wire oh yes two wires if you want to be technical there's the wire that you have when you're wearing them and there's the wire that you use to charge them that's true that's true uh the buttons are 230 bucks and they're available in four different color combinations they're in black and gold white and gold black and space gray or white and rose gold so you can match all your fun Apple products that's that's going to be nice actually that's quite nice so we've we've covered it we've said master and dynamic we've covered the IM Plus buttons we got uh pure gear got a mention in there and decb got a mention in there that's four different types of bluetooth headphones that are available to you that if you've got a uh an iPhone 7 make a ton of sense so let's carry on I want to talk a little bit about the MacBook Pro okay what exactly would you like to address there's a lot of topics that have come up this week including one that while we may not have been the first to talk about we were the first to put a coherent argument toward it what would you like to discuss well first of all I'm going to talk about Phil Schiller okay okay Phil Schiller has been at the the head of worldwide marketing for a long time Phil's seen it all he's seen everything from the 1998 iMac forward he's seen maybe before that he's he's been around and if if if you had to encapsulate what the personality of Apple is I would start by saying that it's Johnny IV and Phil Schiller just because they've been around to shape at the longest in recent history so we we've had a lot of talk online on Twitter and and even we talked about it when I was on phone with with Dan last week about people being a little bit dis disappointed in the pricing of the new Macbook Pro MH uh that that there was criticism about how it was equipped there was criticism about the pricing there was there was you know people were looking forward to this as the machine that would fit their budget and their needs and when the announcement was made they had a harder time fitting what their expectations were with what was released well and Phil Phil gets this but the the best most anticipated Apple product is one that hasn't been announced it it's nothing that Apple has ever done has ever appeased the entire market and and it will never because if they do that kind of thing and Phil has said this kind of thing in the past if they do that shotgun approach then people will be sort of happy but not super happy the the thing is that Schiller says is that they basically they melt the very best MacBook Pro they knew how to build right and it may not be for everyone on day one but a lot of people felt that way about the first iMac 2 because hey that had no serial ports it had no scuzzy it had no monitor out it had all kinds of things stripped out of it and it turned out to be a very good machine for a ton of people so it's it's important to remember that that pretty much every product they've ever released has had some kind of criticism in some kind of debate and their onl store has had more orders for the new Macbook Pro than any other Pro notebook they've sold before I I I think he's also talking about the fact that this is also the first MacBook Pro case redesign in four years the 2012 retina MacBook Pro being the first one the case redesign isn't really an issue for anyone well it that comes with a lot of things the apple with the iMac they had the first design and the exterior design didn't change that much but some of the Cosmetics changed over the next couple generations and the port offerings the addition of fire wire and the addition of of DVDs and so the product evolved over time and I I don't think that this is going to be the last MacBook Pro we see until the next case design and he's right this machine may not be for everybody there are architectural issues that that Apple's not necess responsible for here they gave you they gave you four magic ports that do pretty much everything you could ever think to ask of them yep and I think that's great and people complaining about dongles either are newborns or haven't been using a computer very long this is not the first time that we've done this dongle dance and frankly even if you're a computer user now or have been one for more than two years you have some kind of adapter for something yes so this is why people are freaking out about this dongle thing I don't completely understand and people are saying well need a dongle for this and a dongle for this and dongle for this and dongle for this well no you don't you need a USBC cable to usbb to go to a hub and then you have the Hub deal with all your existing cabling yeah and I actually have one of those USBC to usbb actually no it's a usba uh Port as opposed to the the that works that works works works fantastically is what it does um what what this really is is that when you introduce a new magic Port that can do just about everything you have to wait a little while for everyone else to catch up to it when USBC when when when usba right was introduced in 1998 on the iMac it was the first computer to ship with USB at all it was possible back then to to do weird things like uh I had a a PC motherboard that you could get a separate USB card for that would plug into it to give you USB ports but no one did that was that the PCI one or the one that went to the Riser on the motherboard it wasn't a p I when it was a riser off of a special header on the motherboard nasty yeah was fantastic in 1997 98 right but the peripherals weren't there either it took a long it took a little bit for the peripherals to catch up too because this is sort of a chicken and egg thing but now that we've had 2 years of USBC on the MacBook the 12-in laptop we've got this machine it's going to happen yeah I don't the complaints talking about well we needed a transition machine with USBC and usba no the transition the transition machine was the MacBook and this computer you knew it was coming you knew it had to be this way you knew it was going to be this way when the MacBook came out two years ago yeah your your transition machine if you need one and you don't so the the transition in the marketplace is that PC Computers lag behind especially ones sold for business right there are still machines out there that God help us have a VGA port on them mhm in 2016 and this is because in a lot of Institutions people have projectors that even if they have DVI and VGA connections on them the uh the structural wiring that is the the wire that connects the projector on the ceiling to the wall they ran the VGA cable they didn't run the HDMI cable sure yeah right and so this is the the brain damage you you have to get on board with the New Ports with the new technology and everyone will be happier when you do so go ahead recognize this is what you're getting into and adapt and if this isn't what you want then buy the mid 2015 machine But realize you're going to USBC anyway it's coming whe whether you want it to or not USBC is coming that is true but if you have a workflow if you have needs if you have some special way of doing your work and it's finicky and you want to stick with it then go ahead and buy the mid 2015 machine that's your way forward and and stick with it for a few years until your workflow is adapted or or don't and use your existing Hardware because it doesn't burst into flames when the new stuff comes out uh I mean Apple would prefer you buy something you know if you're buying from a company based in Korea for example it might burst in FL yeah that's a different matter but I I had to get the Samsung joke yeah that's fine here all week try the ve um is the machine perfect for everybody no and I alluded to this a little bit before but it was never going to be perfect for everybody the the choice of processors that Apple has used is the Skylake processor and people are complaining including some reviewers that why this doesn't this doesn't have cab Lake and I'm upset about that say people but cab Lake for what Apple wants to use it for isn't available there are no quadcore cabul lakes and in fact the next round of cabul lakes isn't even quad core machines quad core processor suitable for the MacBook Pro the next round of cabul lake is desktops and Xeon processors so a cabul lake quadcore will'll see the middle of next year the middle of 2017 and people are already saying that well Canon Lake will be ready for a 2017 Pro no it won't we're going to be in the same situation we are now with with Skylake we're going to have a quad core cab Lake by the end of next year but we're sure as hell not gonna have Canon Lake Mike slow down a second let's let's let me break it down for a moment okay when you design a laptop you inevitably are are making a bunch of decisions about compromises and you're making these decisions about compromises because you want to pack in the most power you can into the smallest amount of space with the with a reasonable amount of of power demand because you've got batteries you're running off of and you want those batteries to last for a useful amount of time when you're using the machine and you've also got to dissipate heat right you've got thermal heat created thermal heat you've got thermal created because you're you're running this in a small enclosure and the heat has to go somewhere so you have to evacuate the heat so what happens is you end up trying to Design Within These constraints and when Apple selects these parts there's the thermal design power rating of a chip right it says this is the maximum amount of heat generated by a component and that the cooling system is designed to dissipate so they know how much their fans can dissipate they know how much the heat pipes inside can dissipate and how much they can manage and move that heat around and if you go ahead and you put in a a processor that produces more than that thermal design power then you're going to end up with a machine that overheats you're going to cook your legs you're going to cook the system right you have to accept that these are the constraints and so the constraints that that exist within Apple spec for what they can do in a laptop that's this thin that dissipates heat that doesn't run its fans fulltime all the time the answer is use Skylake the answer is use Skylake because it doesn't exist in quadcore right I mean because C like doesn't exist in Quad right cabul like doesn't exist in quadcore so yeah I understand what you're saying and that is definitely definitely L is not available besides being quadcore it's not available with the TDP rating right so you simply don't have the part that people are wishing for it doesn't exist yet and you know here's the thing is people got steamed about this when the machine shipped and they didn't take that five minutes to take a look and see why and I'm I'm not going to make any pretenses about it I'm a man of science and technology I'm not the $6 million man I don't have you know cyborg Parts yes but as part of who I am and not just what I do is when things like this happen from Google or anybody I sit back and I say okay this does this and this is why they made that choice and now immediately immediately it was clear why Apple made the choice they did on the processors which which led to all these other things that happened down the line I'm wildly gesticulating here because I'm from New England but and you can't see it but there are these steps that happen and these Fallout things that happen because of some core engineering decision that Apple was forced into mhm so and you know the thermal design profile being one of them right so thermal design power yeah so I'm looking at a uh an Asus notebook I'm I'm looking at a uh no no it's it's an MSI notebook rather it's an MSI uh cx727 ql which is a very marketing friendly name it's a 17in laptop it's it's quite large it's quite thick it does have a core i7 KB like processor okay it's it's you know they they it can be done but the thing to note is that you know when when you do that right you've got so the the core M3 chips right they have these models that are 15 watts in the U series there are y series that are 4.5 Watts there are these these different i5 and i7 chips that are 7 y54 and 7 y75 chips that don't really have a customer friendly uh they're not a good decision because the TDP rating is so important for the performance of the processor and the TDP for those is very high right the the kbl Lakes instead of being 4.5 Watts they jump up to being these 15 watt kind of thing so a core I3 with a 15 watt TDP can actually end up being faster than a core i7 rated at 4.5 Watts but you're you're using more power you it doesn't fit within the design constraints that we're talking about for a MacBook Pro where you can shoehorn it into this gigantic 17-inch very thick laptop okay I mean I I'm I'm nodding my head yes and but they are yes could Apple have built a machine with 32 GB of RAM yes could APPA built a machine with a better GPU yes however given the stated goals of the machine and limitations of processor technology available at the time keep in mind that this machine wasn't out on the 1st of October this machine's been in development for how long we had a we had a leaked case picture in June right and and the leak case picture in June doesn't tell us how long it's been around it takes N9 months to be a to do a product development cycle so I mean there there's a lot that went into this and I I just just the social media storm about it I don't think anyone took any time to dispassionately sit back and realize why the decisions were made why they were made um the the the 32 GB if if they went to 32 GB of RAM then they'd be using higher powerered Ram because the lpddr3 ram you you you physically cannot get to 32 gabt of it you can't do it you can do 16 you can't do 32 look at the look at the surface the surface has the same limitation with the same processor and it it's just it frustrates me you're frustrated you're disappointed and you're frustrated in your fellow humans Mike what what I like to do is I like to say look people you know please take a second examine the facts behind the situation and if you still have an issue after you know the facts then we can talk about it but if you're making if you're making an emotional decision based on engineering and electrical design principles that it's it's incompatible no one requires anyone to buy this machine no and and that's a true statement if you don't like the machine you know what then then buy the MSI machine please do electronics are not designed to be a to be a war surface they're designed to make your life easier or let you finish your job or do something like that and you you shouldn't need self validation because you pick something that somebody else didn't and if they want to give you a hard time about it let them give you a hard time about it but if you're happy with what you have be happy with what you have and then that's just you know I guess Mike's words to live on for this week I suppose oh well there you have it um yeah Mike's words to live by well you know the thing is is is Phil took a lot of time to defend the machine and he says that it wouldn't be apple if he didn't have passionate fans but and then he said that he was surprised at some of the some at some of the irritation about it but I I think that some of the irritation around it was built around an unrealistic an unrealistic Prospect of what people thought they were going to get with this machine yes now there there are some things like like we said right this messes with people's workflow because it's got different ports it's got a lack of ports in some cases but you you just you need to find ways to adapt right mhm and that's that's not necessarily um a big deal it's it's a minor deal but it's it's kind of annoying right they initially had an SG slot on the machine and they've had one on there for years and they picked the card format because pretty much everyone had it at that time mhm however the card slots never been amazing on the laptop right there there a couple of different types of SD slots there's some that you push in and they have latches and they're surface they they're flush mount with the surface in the app implantation it always just pushed in and stuck out from the side yeah about a quarter inch yep uh a little bit more than that more like half okay I'll go with that and stuff sticking out the side of their laptops is not exactly what they like yeah they're not a super fan of ports to begin with so something hanging out the outside yeah I'm not sure where that would fly yeah however it flew for several years I mean about I want to say 2010ish on it is is when that was introduced so for six years we've had an SD card that could hang out the side of the laptop and Apple's vision is one of things becoming Wireless of things becoming uh generics not the nice word I would say that more Universal Universal and uniform I think is what you're really looking for there yeah um and with the Thunderbolt 3 ports they're Universal they really are with an SD slot well it's it's for that one type of card and that one type of card can be replaced by Wireless transfer now if you're a pro photographer and you're using your camera and you don't want to do the transfer the files from a $66,000 job over Wireless great plug in your USB card reader but no one's forcing you to pick either path you can do either uh now one of the things that happened is that in in many Apple machines for years the um the headphone Port also doubled as an optical Port uh what would happen is there's there's toast link which is the Toshiba Optical standard that is used for pretty much all optical cable for home a gear there's mini toast link which is putting the optical light for lack of a better word at the very end of the headphone Port connection and you you plug in an adapter for an optical cable that looks like that headphone jack shape and it transfers the digital signal across the wire and that was built into Mac minis it was built into MacBook Pros it was built into to all the machines it was built into the airport express for long time yeah the first machine that popped up in as as default was in the G5 Tower yeah so we've had this port for an awful long time uh the 3.5 mil headphone jack was retained for professionals with audio gears that don't have wireless Solutions and still need the jack for Mac OS but how many people are running digital audio out of their Macs I have I'm not currently um I've used did you do that for what were you doing believe believe it or not the only reason why I did it was before the when the Mac Mini first came out had a DVI port and it didn't have HDMI and there was no good way to get audio from the Mac Mini to my television without it and so you did Optical to your television it was what I had available it was what I had left for inputs on my TV ah and that's the only reason that's the only reason I've ever used it and that was in7 yeah so I I so it's been yeah it's been a solid eight years since that was on your core solo Mac Mini no I know to be fair I had the core Duo I wasn't stupid um but yes it was that same generation it was the same generation yeah so the the reason why people would do something like that back then is that back then the Mac shipped with a uh a home audio video front end that you could enable using the Apple remote that worked with the the Mac Mini at that time and it was called front row yep pre-app TV just a year preapp TV uh incorrect the Apple TV was introduced in 2007 at the same time as front row and what am I thinking of I don't know cuz I had the Mac anyway it doesn't really matter it's the fact is I used the mini with the television with the optical cable before I got the Apple TV yeah so there you go yeah no the Big Apple TV that had a uh an actual physical hard disk inside was 40 or 160 gig and and was actually uh an intel-based Apple TV love that thing I thing was fantastic that was 2007 that that debuted January 2007 and the first known indication of the term hobby for it but yes absolutely fantastic product anyway moving on so that's what that optical cable was for at the time and and now it's no longer around because for years front row hasn't been on the Mac and no one's really needed it if you were doing Pro Audio things um you you used a different type of digital connection to get the audio out probably over USB or something else there there are no DJs that were using that Optical out yeah we know yeah apple told us that they removed it because customers weren't using it exactly and I completely buy that I you know I thought back to my own Recollections the last time I used it and so I'll use ports on these computers sometimes just so I can say I did so and that's really not much more than what I did with it in 2007 so and I agree I don't think with anyone that I've done any support work for recently that I've even seen anybody using it that way everything everything I've used everything I've seen has either been using HDMI audio or just a regular headphone jack breakout with the red and the white plugs after the headphone jack so yeah I again I agree with you I don't think this is a major emission I think that this is just an evolution of the headphone jack I don't think it belies what Phil said about it about keeping the port because it is still a pro machine people leapt up immediately said aha you're lying because we need toss link as a pro machine well no I I don't think that's actually the case yeah and and on the whole let's think about it right you got something thin you got something light it has wide color gamut it has touch bar it has Touch ID there there's a lot right about where this is going even if you don't like this particular model you may like the next one yeah this is the shift right this is the heading shift this is you've got the retina machine and it had all these ports and it had this processor and it had the larger bezel and now this is where we're going now and this is the next few years this is the direction we're taking with this machine and like I said I I think that you may not like this model but you might like the next one or the one after that much like the iMac much like when the first iMac came out it was a 23 233 MHz G3 with two USB ports and that's it no no ADB no cereal no nothing and and wireless wasn't even a thing yet the airport wasn't even a thing yet you had had an airport card slot it did not sir no you're right it did not yep the airport card slot came in with the uh with the DV series that's correct underneath that fancy little door with the where the ram was um some needed the mezine slot and some did not but that's a not the mesine slot the airport little carrier slot and some did not but that's a story for a different day yeah the um and I I think the same thing is going to happen with this machine I think this is the first iteration and it will change over the next four years will it be another year till the next upgrade yeah I mean we're not going to look at another upgrade in this machine in February with anything I would I would suspect the next upgrade of this machine is around this time next year okay so you think it's one year out as opposed to two years out I think it's I think it is no more than 18 months out o that's that's not definite at all and I think that's going to depend on Intel I think it's going to depend on intel if they keep up their production rates I think it's going to depend on if they can actually stick with this Tick Tock talk thing and not make it a talk talk talk so it Apple is very much in the hands of another company for this and there's there's speculation that Apple might use the A10 for the Mac but the A10 processor architecture is isn't exactly what you want in a machine like the Mac it doesn't do symmetrical multiprocessing that well um it it does it but not as well wait wait wait no the iectures are different and well I'm sure that there's no S10 version running on it it is not suitable for a pro machine if it wants to be if you stop everything oh come on now what hear me out hear me out if you were going to introduce an arm processor like the A10 or a hypothetical since We're Dreaming an a11 why not right it's inevitable sure we'll call it the a11 uh an a something the future a series processor made by Apple into a laptop running Mac OS If I Were King of the world I would do it first to something like a 12-in Macbook that was exactly what I was in the middle of saying before you interrupted me I got to get a word here edge wise I know I I talk a lot again New England right so you you you do it as a transition into the product that's going to need to take advantage of long battery life like the MacBook that people don't think of as being the pro machine that does everything and runs TV studios and all this stuff like the MacBook you you do it in a way where it can do all the things that is competent at and beat the prior Intel version but doesn't disappoint anyone along the way and I'm in complete agreement with you it right now the Aeries processor is not a good choice for the Mac Pro or the iMac it is a good choice future one could be since we're talking about stuff that doesn't exist it could be but it won't be in the next 18 months and and so for now and so for now apple and Intel are their their Fates are intertwined there's there's no one like going back to the power PC chip which still exists by the way is not an option not by Motorola doesn't not by Motorola but it is but the power PC chip still exists yes IBM still makes power chips and and you know we're not going back no no we're not um and we're not going back because partially there aren't multiple suppliers Apple needed to choose from both Motorola and IBM especially after motorol at the time uh crippled Supply so badly that they couldn't actually make the product introduction that they wanted to make for Power Mac g3s and we're not going back because IBM never could make the mobile G5 the way that we needed to have The PowerBook Advance right what were the jokes said to be a 3-in thick laptop uh something like that that was what the the rumor was but basically the when IBM and apple agreed to work together to make the G5 there had to be a mobile processor as well and they never made it and they never could and that was when the switch over to Intel happened yeah it prepared for it long in advance that's when it took place I have no doubt I have no doubt that on a desk somewhere in copertino right now that os10 as we know it is running we know this this is Absol this is not something that speculative it's it's known the uh and we know it because we see hints for it within ma Sierra so it's just not going to happen soon and you know and interviews from CET and interviews with Phil Schiller here and they've all said that that Mac OS and iOS is going to remain separate at least for the time being and because they think that they're that they are discreet products deserving their own Lifestyles their own their own their own trees their own development their own everything well and and because we don't need a touchscreen on the uh the laptop either yeah you know what I've used PC laptops you know again as a reminder to the to the readers and listeners who may not be familiar with me I I I do not bleed in six colors okay I'm a fan of Apple products but but when when they said that you know you get the Popeye forearms using a vertical touchcreen they're completely right it is it's bad it is bad ergonomics to be using a laptop touchcreen it's terrible once upon a time in a previous venue I reviewed the Dell xps1 which if you don't know what that is it's a it was a 27inch all-in-one around the time of the very first retina IMAX it was it was a solid PC but man using that touchcreen was insane it's just not a good experience yeah so we'll see with the touch bar when I when I get my machine and it will be here in December the advantage of the touch bar is that your hands are already at the keyboard they're already in the home row if you're already at ASDF jkl semicolon and all you have to do is reach up and your touch bar is right there you're not moving so far that it makes bad sense yeah so I'm you know I'm in complete agreement with that and it's just the people that know me wonder why I'm so positive on the MacBook Pro and I'm positive on the MacBook Pro because it is a solid machine with solid design principles and they and frankly for lack of a better turn of phrase they did the best they could with what they had available to them solid so solid we have an unboxing of this very MacBook Pro we have the actually the the 13inch because that's the one that's available shipping right now and we have that with the classic physical function row unboxing in the show notes and I want to encourage everyone to go and take a look at it because there's always something informative about how these things are packaged yes okay fine it's a box wrapped and cellophane but the way that Apple goes ahead and cradles the laptop in a black Therma form the way that they put the uh the literature on top that says welcome the you know the different types of things that Apple do to make your first introductory steps into opening the laptop slightly welcoming and that's what's interesting to see here in our unboxing that we'll Post in the show notes anyway more importantly than any of that is that the uh the MacBook Pros Get Loud the speakers they were in the keynote they had a video that highlighted how they'd managed to redo the speaker design in a laptop that's as thin as this and interestingly because they've done it with this redesign and made it more efficient the speakers get 58% louder than that's a good last Model yeah that's a really good addition I'm very pleased with that was not of of all the things I of that Apple released I I think that that was the most unexpected because they're they're dealing with a very small chamber there and and for good sound reproduction the the I mean obviously there's a limit to this but the the the better the bigger better oriented Chambers you can gather the better off you're going to be well it's it's physics you have to be able to push air and you're not just pushing air out because when you're pushing air out you're pulling from the backside but when you retract the speaker you're you're actually pushing air back in too and so when you have a uh a speaker en closure that matches the physical size needed to be able to push the air you get good sound when you don't have the right size enclosure you can't do it people try and overcome this with things like passive radiators that also move to increase the the virtual space of the enclosure it's really interesting to see how they've gone ahead and changed speaker design to be able to account for this without breaking the laws of physics science on the Apple Insider podcast there you go well let's wrap it up Mike is there any parting thought that you'd like to give people Phil Schiller said that you need to try the machine and I'm in complete agreement with him and that's where the rubber hits the road right when you actually sit and use a machine now the Apple stores are going to be packed but if you're on the fence don't just decide yes or no based on what other people are saying go and sit down for 5 minutes at 11 o'clock at an Apple Store when it's as quiet as possible I I know that's hard and use the keyboard which is different than the MacBooks which is different than the 2015 MacBook Pros sit down and look at the screen examine the viewing angles listen to the speakers use the machine for a couple minutes and for nothing else than to type the first couple of words of War and Peace into the notepad and and see what you think about the machine before you make the gut yes or no we've given you the data we've given you the statistics we've given you the numbers and we giv you the wise and it's it's up to you to figure out what that adds up to all right this has been episode 93 of the Apple Insider podcast Mike where where can people find you on the internet well my last name is kind of terrible but we'll put it in the show notes I'm at Mike worthly Twitter and you can find me every weekday at appleinsider.com brilliant well this is Victor marks this is the app Insider podcast we'll be back next week where we find out if Mike worthley is indeed solidyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to episode 93 of the Apple Insider podcast where we talk about all things mac Apple iPhone iPod iPad and more joining me is Mike Worley Mike how you doing hello back from my super secure bunker in Northern Virginia your lair as it were all right well before we get into talking about that I want to talk about deals two of Apple's newly unveiled 13-in MacBook Pros without a touch bar are in stock at our good friends B&H with no tax outside of New York and you can also save $400 off a mid 2015 MacBook Pro with no tax outside New Jersey or New York or pick up a 12in Macbook at $50 to $100 off a 13in air 1.6 GHz 8 gig 256 gig so forth is 949 and and so we've got all these deals and more in the show notes but what's cool about this is if you're seeking a MacBook Pro and you want a very capable machine but without the touch bar and and some of these kinds of things uh and still want the luxury of Mag safe too then this 15-inch deal may be the way to go for you the uh if you want that 13in without the touch bar we have that available here also and that that you can save about um well let's see the the 13in without a touch bar is in stock and its price is of course $149 99 and because you don't have to pay the tax uh to New York because you're outside of New York you save about $120 at least upfront uh taxes being of course your own responsibility to your own local uh and you can save $20 when you add Apple Care to that purchase so so basically we've got some interesting deals and we're going to make them available in the show notes now Mike obviously we've been talking about how important headphones are especially with the absence of the headphone jack on the iPhone 7 yeah so what are people doing to solve this this problem well this critical lack there is the Apple W1 ship which they use across two beats products and the airpods uh the only problem with that is only two of those products are shipping only the Beats products are actually shipping right now the airpods uh been a little dramatic on the airpods the Chinese supply chain initially indicated that they would be pushing to January which we got that news and it didn't make a lot of sense to us so we decided to delve into it a little bit using the Apple Insider Resource Network for lack of better term and we were told by sources inside Apple corporate mind you that there was no way that the airpods are going to get pushed past Christmas right because just in terms of of you know projected sales that would kind of stink for Apple wouldn't it I think from an adoption standpoint I don't think that would be great the while the beats the Power Beats are just now hitting the stores and if you order a pair from Apple online right now you'll get them sometime next week those are a little bit later than they thought they were going to be so there was some there was some speculation that there might be an issue with the W1 but the fact that the Beats products are shipping and the airpods are not no one really knows what's going on with that so I would suspect that we're going to see these I'm guessing the first week of December um but I'm fairly confident in the information that we are given by our sources that tell us that we'll see them well in time for the Christmas season right and retail locations do have perhaps a couple of pairs for customer demonstration so uh they're not out yet as I understand it the we pulled 10 stores and six of the stores had demo units waiting for the word from corporate to go ahead and start demonstrating um I have not had a chance to go and verify any of these locations in person to see if there's any behind glass or anything like that but I presume that there is not at this time okay so airpods power beads 3 and beats solo 3 wireless which are the on ear headphones are the ones that are going to have the W1 chip yeah that's all that's been announced right now in the W1 now what exactly has Apple has in mind for long term of the W1 which debuted in the iPhone 7 I really don't know and no one's really sure is it going to be licensed don't know is it going to be apple on Beats only don't know we'll see I got a the W1 isn't in the iPhone 7 the W1 is in the headphones themselves right it debuted alongside the iPhone not I guess I should be more clear it debuted alongside the iPhone 7 not in the iPhone 7 so yeah um and it's it's you know we we've had uh completely uninformed speculation that the W1 could be licensed out under the same kind of of process that the chips are licensed out for mfi program and hom kid and so forth yeah there's just no evidence of that right now it does make sense that they would do that but we haven't even heard anything in the rumor change suggesting that that's going to happen anytime soon right and it would my guess would be that Supply is so low at this moment that it it's that conversation hasn't begun because you couldn't get them if you wanted Bluetooth is a funny technology it's driven by a bunch of different companies and there's different classes of Bluetooth that determine range and power and well well it's it's not well just it's not classes it's level of the spec right revisions of the spec so yeah there's Arata there's Bluetooth classes there there's so many different V when you can say Bluetooth but it's this big bucket well there's there's Bluetooth 2.1 which gave us avrcp and a2dp and then Bluetooth 3 which was the beginning of having Bluetooth data that then passed over to Wi-Fi for bigger data transmission then Bluetooth 4 that gave us the the Lo tooth low energy spec 4.1 is a part of that but you get better range and better battery life kind of thing well even on top of that there's still AATA integral to the to the protocol from Bluetooth 4 to Bluetooth 4.1 there have been nine AATA which they can be implemented in software they can be implemented in Hardware which adds an additional complexity on top of compatibility from Bluetooth to blooth it's it's a very complex situation and I I think that that has more to do with the W1 since the W1 does work with Bluetooth in general it has to right because it has the iPhone it rides on top of Bluetooth so I I just think that I think that apple is taking a little bit of extra time to make sure that the S the software works well with the hardware and and that the the W1 and the in the earpods and the earpods themselves are compatible with a wide array of devices I think that's what all this is I don't think it's anything more sinister than that okay good to know that that's that's where you stand I was was thinking that uh you know they they've had some units out in reviewer's hands not in our hands of course but they've had them with some people and and theyve functioned so it's the difference between something that's functional and works for most people in a review situation versus being widely rolled out and everyone uncovering something so they' they've found a few things they're getting ready yeah I I believe so too and if you look at the reviews of the airpods they're all they all happen about the same same time so it's not like it's just one pair of airpods getting passed from venue to venue and there all were the airpods with the iPhone 7 the airpods with an iPad or the airpods with a Mac they they really didn't stray that far from airpods and apple they really didn't look at any third parties in any depth so I I think that that that compatibility is what this is about what this is sold for right if you're buying an iPhone and you're interested in the the the headphones the airpods that have the W1 chip you're not buying those W1 airpods to work with an Android device well no you're not but they do advertise it is compatible with any Bluetooth device surely and and so it will be but you know if you're handing them to a reviewer what what are you're handing here's your review kit right here's the kit that you're meant to go and review here's the reviewer's guide that tells you how we want you to look at it and what things we want to highlight to you that you should mention and the things you should test right they they lay out and prepare the reviewer so that you you've got it all together and what you're doing and know what they want to show you right so they're not going to give you an Android phone and say hey go test it with this their intention is show it off with our latest thing because we think that's how our consumers are going to buy the thing anyway well sure and I get that but my point was is that any issue that it might have with a third-party piece of Hardware wouldn't necessarily have been revealed in the first initial Impressions and reviews of the hardware that's all yeah something that they know and test for anyway right yeah so absent those ones being widely available other people are introducing Bluetooth because now is a great time to jump in and take advantage of that opportunity if you're a manufacturer well sure master and dynamic have got their MW 50s that they rolled out this week um metal and leather of all things they they're that's no surprise if you're a fan of Master Dy no it's they're very old time looking they're they're not like you know the huge plastic muffs popularized in the 70s or anything like that no um they're they're premium they're primarily made of stainless steel cowhide leather headband lambskin leather wrapped around memory phone earpads um and they say that they're lighter than their MW 60s which you know they are those are pretty Mammoth but they they're also a higher-end product there's 40 mm bellium drivers with a range between 5 and 30,000 Hertz twin microphones for voice input um and they say that they'll go 16 hours on the battery which I'm reasonably impressed with and they have Bluetooth 4.1 which has the better power management and aptex audio which you know you get for free anyway and 33t range which is fairly standard for Bluetooth audio uh especially for a 4.1 system they're they're 449 bucks but that's competitive in the market segment that they're comp that they're in this this you shouldn't look at this and go oh my God I'm never going to buy those because they're a boutique brand they are a boutique brand but that's the thing is you there has to be a range of products right I mean there's the $5 headphones you can get at the convenience store and you won't hear much and you won't hear much of anything or you can you can be that audio file and get the higher-end stuff that's made of wood and not plastic and and and deal with the resonance in the wood rather than resonance in plastic or a metal casing so yeah and you know if if manufacturers never make the very best thing that they know how to make then they never know how to translate and and trickle that quality down to the next lower model that eventually becomes cost affordable to you right if if you never make the very best thing then you don't know where to cost reduce from I am not an audio file but I respect the people that are and I understand most of their choices I mean the the $10,000 USB cables I don't quite get well not withstanding that so Neil Hughes esteemed Neil Hughes who hasn't been on the show for a little bit but he'll be back I promise we've been a little busy yeah Neil uses master and dynamic headphones and he normally uses their microphone attached to their headphones when he podcasts with this show and he is a fan of them why did he spend the money on master and dynamic headphones because they they were not provided by Apple and cider corporate they were provided by Neil Hughes he bought them because he lives very very minimalist like you know he has very few possessions in life and he makes sure that the ones that he has are the very best the ones that bring him Joy they do and he will tell you if you ever stop him if you can't ever stop him he's too busy but if you can never stop him he will tell you master and dynamic that's the way to go cuz that's what he likes so very cool for master and dynamic that they've introduced this and we'll see if Neil replaces his own set also available in Apple Stores now are headphones from the black ey peas FR men will I IM along with models from Kendall Jenner and Naomi gamble these are the IM plus buttons which are are Bluetooth wireless earbuds that are available at Apple Store stores and nean Marcus and Bloomingdales this being an audio mostly medium the best way you can imagine these is Apple's ear pods with a stack of two quarters on the outside of them no no no they're they're they're shiny brushed metal uh caps on the end the size of two quarters they're they're brushed in a circular Sunray kind of effect that that leads you to sort of take the queue as if they were a grooved vinyl record they are attractive they they they do strongly resemble some of the other products at will IM has produced this is not his first audio device I believe this is his sixth um he's also you know coincidentally or or not he's working on planet of the apps that that curated apps development show that apple is partnering with to get that done yeah so it's uh the things are growing and the nice thing that Apple has done with USBC and Bluetooth is they've really pushed the adoption of the Technologies and Bluetooth is is prevalent now USBC will get there and we're going to talk a little bit more about that coming up later but this is exactly the kind of thing that Apple Driving the market forward helps to promote right now what's important about these bluetooth earbuds is is let's talk about just what they look like besides so they've got these metal discs the metal discs are magnetic so that they help keep the earbuds secure around your neck when you're not using them they attach together it's convenient um sometimes magnetic headphones like that actually use that as a a way to turn them off so that they power save when they're not in use I don't know if these do that oh yeah no I have a pair that's made by a company called puregear and the puregear ones which are very affordable um use the magnet at the ends of the earbuds when they stick together they turn themselves off so that they power save okay yeah it's pretty cool a can's kind of guy got this big old manly head with these really tiny baby ear canals so any kind of earbud is no one wants to hear about ear canals no probably not they're clean though so you that's a plus you say that um the the thing that you in terms of earbuds is you need to get yourself some decs okay Debs are earbuds and they come with a thermofoam um earpiece that you you mold to fit your ear you heat them up and then you put them in and mash them in they adjust to your ear canal and then when they cool they they fit perfectly in your ears only H okay that's kind of cool that way you have earphones that are customized for your ears you're striking a dim recollection in that I believe I've heard of those but have not you know we talked about them on the podcast a couple times with everything else that goes through my head I you know it gets stored for future use at some point yeah so the W1 let's let's be clear the w1s have no wires at all the the the uh IM plus which is the Kendall Jenner Willie IM and Naomi Campbell project the buttons as they're called uh they have a cable that goes between the two ears yep which is the which is most common in wireless earbuds yeah but let's be care there there is a wire oh yes two wires if you want to be technical there's the wire that you have when you're wearing them and there's the wire that you use to charge them that's true that's true uh the buttons are 230 bucks and they're available in four different color combinations they're in black and gold white and gold black and space gray or white and rose gold so you can match all your fun Apple products that's that's going to be nice actually that's quite nice so we've we've covered it we've said master and dynamic we've covered the IM Plus buttons we got uh pure gear got a mention in there and decb got a mention in there that's four different types of bluetooth headphones that are available to you that if you've got a uh an iPhone 7 make a ton of sense so let's carry on I want to talk a little bit about the MacBook Pro okay what exactly would you like to address there's a lot of topics that have come up this week including one that while we may not have been the first to talk about we were the first to put a coherent argument toward it what would you like to discuss well first of all I'm going to talk about Phil Schiller okay okay Phil Schiller has been at the the head of worldwide marketing for a long time Phil's seen it all he's seen everything from the 1998 iMac forward he's seen maybe before that he's he's been around and if if if you had to encapsulate what the personality of Apple is I would start by saying that it's Johnny IV and Phil Schiller just because they've been around to shape at the longest in recent history so we we've had a lot of talk online on Twitter and and even we talked about it when I was on phone with with Dan last week about people being a little bit dis disappointed in the pricing of the new Macbook Pro MH uh that that there was criticism about how it was equipped there was criticism about the pricing there was there was you know people were looking forward to this as the machine that would fit their budget and their needs and when the announcement was made they had a harder time fitting what their expectations were with what was released well and Phil Phil gets this but the the best most anticipated Apple product is one that hasn't been announced it it's nothing that Apple has ever done has ever appeased the entire market and and it will never because if they do that kind of thing and Phil has said this kind of thing in the past if they do that shotgun approach then people will be sort of happy but not super happy the the thing is that Schiller says is that they basically they melt the very best MacBook Pro they knew how to build right and it may not be for everyone on day one but a lot of people felt that way about the first iMac 2 because hey that had no serial ports it had no scuzzy it had no monitor out it had all kinds of things stripped out of it and it turned out to be a very good machine for a ton of people so it's it's important to remember that that pretty much every product they've ever released has had some kind of criticism in some kind of debate and their onl store has had more orders for the new Macbook Pro than any other Pro notebook they've sold before I I I think he's also talking about the fact that this is also the first MacBook Pro case redesign in four years the 2012 retina MacBook Pro being the first one the case redesign isn't really an issue for anyone well it that comes with a lot of things the apple with the iMac they had the first design and the exterior design didn't change that much but some of the Cosmetics changed over the next couple generations and the port offerings the addition of fire wire and the addition of of DVDs and so the product evolved over time and I I don't think that this is going to be the last MacBook Pro we see until the next case design and he's right this machine may not be for everybody there are architectural issues that that Apple's not necess responsible for here they gave you they gave you four magic ports that do pretty much everything you could ever think to ask of them yep and I think that's great and people complaining about dongles either are newborns or haven't been using a computer very long this is not the first time that we've done this dongle dance and frankly even if you're a computer user now or have been one for more than two years you have some kind of adapter for something yes so this is why people are freaking out about this dongle thing I don't completely understand and people are saying well need a dongle for this and a dongle for this and dongle for this and dongle for this well no you don't you need a USBC cable to usbb to go to a hub and then you have the Hub deal with all your existing cabling yeah and I actually have one of those USBC to usbb actually no it's a usba uh Port as opposed to the the that works that works works works fantastically is what it does um what what this really is is that when you introduce a new magic Port that can do just about everything you have to wait a little while for everyone else to catch up to it when USBC when when when usba right was introduced in 1998 on the iMac it was the first computer to ship with USB at all it was possible back then to to do weird things like uh I had a a PC motherboard that you could get a separate USB card for that would plug into it to give you USB ports but no one did that was that the PCI one or the one that went to the Riser on the motherboard it wasn't a p I when it was a riser off of a special header on the motherboard nasty yeah was fantastic in 1997 98 right but the peripherals weren't there either it took a long it took a little bit for the peripherals to catch up too because this is sort of a chicken and egg thing but now that we've had 2 years of USBC on the MacBook the 12-in laptop we've got this machine it's going to happen yeah I don't the complaints talking about well we needed a transition machine with USBC and usba no the transition the transition machine was the MacBook and this computer you knew it was coming you knew it had to be this way you knew it was going to be this way when the MacBook came out two years ago yeah your your transition machine if you need one and you don't so the the transition in the marketplace is that PC Computers lag behind especially ones sold for business right there are still machines out there that God help us have a VGA port on them mhm in 2016 and this is because in a lot of Institutions people have projectors that even if they have DVI and VGA connections on them the uh the structural wiring that is the the wire that connects the projector on the ceiling to the wall they ran the VGA cable they didn't run the HDMI cable sure yeah right and so this is the the brain damage you you have to get on board with the New Ports with the new technology and everyone will be happier when you do so go ahead recognize this is what you're getting into and adapt and if this isn't what you want then buy the mid 2015 machine But realize you're going to USBC anyway it's coming whe whether you want it to or not USBC is coming that is true but if you have a workflow if you have needs if you have some special way of doing your work and it's finicky and you want to stick with it then go ahead and buy the mid 2015 machine that's your way forward and and stick with it for a few years until your workflow is adapted or or don't and use your existing Hardware because it doesn't burst into flames when the new stuff comes out uh I mean Apple would prefer you buy something you know if you're buying from a company based in Korea for example it might burst in FL yeah that's a different matter but I I had to get the Samsung joke yeah that's fine here all week try the ve um is the machine perfect for everybody no and I alluded to this a little bit before but it was never going to be perfect for everybody the the choice of processors that Apple has used is the Skylake processor and people are complaining including some reviewers that why this doesn't this doesn't have cab Lake and I'm upset about that say people but cab Lake for what Apple wants to use it for isn't available there are no quadcore cabul lakes and in fact the next round of cabul lakes isn't even quad core machines quad core processor suitable for the MacBook Pro the next round of cabul lake is desktops and Xeon processors so a cabul lake quadcore will'll see the middle of next year the middle of 2017 and people are already saying that well Canon Lake will be ready for a 2017 Pro no it won't we're going to be in the same situation we are now with with Skylake we're going to have a quad core cab Lake by the end of next year but we're sure as hell not gonna have Canon Lake Mike slow down a second let's let's let me break it down for a moment okay when you design a laptop you inevitably are are making a bunch of decisions about compromises and you're making these decisions about compromises because you want to pack in the most power you can into the smallest amount of space with the with a reasonable amount of of power demand because you've got batteries you're running off of and you want those batteries to last for a useful amount of time when you're using the machine and you've also got to dissipate heat right you've got thermal heat created thermal heat you've got thermal created because you're you're running this in a small enclosure and the heat has to go somewhere so you have to evacuate the heat so what happens is you end up trying to Design Within These constraints and when Apple selects these parts there's the thermal design power rating of a chip right it says this is the maximum amount of heat generated by a component and that the cooling system is designed to dissipate so they know how much their fans can dissipate they know how much the heat pipes inside can dissipate and how much they can manage and move that heat around and if you go ahead and you put in a a processor that produces more than that thermal design power then you're going to end up with a machine that overheats you're going to cook your legs you're going to cook the system right you have to accept that these are the constraints and so the constraints that that exist within Apple spec for what they can do in a laptop that's this thin that dissipates heat that doesn't run its fans fulltime all the time the answer is use Skylake the answer is use Skylake because it doesn't exist in quadcore right I mean because C like doesn't exist in Quad right cabul like doesn't exist in quadcore so yeah I understand what you're saying and that is definitely definitely L is not available besides being quadcore it's not available with the TDP rating right so you simply don't have the part that people are wishing for it doesn't exist yet and you know here's the thing is people got steamed about this when the machine shipped and they didn't take that five minutes to take a look and see why and I'm I'm not going to make any pretenses about it I'm a man of science and technology I'm not the $6 million man I don't have you know cyborg Parts yes but as part of who I am and not just what I do is when things like this happen from Google or anybody I sit back and I say okay this does this and this is why they made that choice and now immediately immediately it was clear why Apple made the choice they did on the processors which which led to all these other things that happened down the line I'm wildly gesticulating here because I'm from New England but and you can't see it but there are these steps that happen and these Fallout things that happen because of some core engineering decision that Apple was forced into mhm so and you know the thermal design profile being one of them right so thermal design power yeah so I'm looking at a uh an Asus notebook I'm I'm looking at a uh no no it's it's an MSI notebook rather it's an MSI uh cx727 ql which is a very marketing friendly name it's a 17in laptop it's it's quite large it's quite thick it does have a core i7 KB like processor okay it's it's you know they they it can be done but the thing to note is that you know when when you do that right you've got so the the core M3 chips right they have these models that are 15 watts in the U series there are y series that are 4.5 Watts there are these these different i5 and i7 chips that are 7 y54 and 7 y75 chips that don't really have a customer friendly uh they're not a good decision because the TDP rating is so important for the performance of the processor and the TDP for those is very high right the the kbl Lakes instead of being 4.5 Watts they jump up to being these 15 watt kind of thing so a core I3 with a 15 watt TDP can actually end up being faster than a core i7 rated at 4.5 Watts but you're you're using more power you it doesn't fit within the design constraints that we're talking about for a MacBook Pro where you can shoehorn it into this gigantic 17-inch very thick laptop okay I mean I I'm I'm nodding my head yes and but they are yes could Apple have built a machine with 32 GB of RAM yes could APPA built a machine with a better GPU yes however given the stated goals of the machine and limitations of processor technology available at the time keep in mind that this machine wasn't out on the 1st of October this machine's been in development for how long we had a we had a leaked case picture in June right and and the leak case picture in June doesn't tell us how long it's been around it takes N9 months to be a to do a product development cycle so I mean there there's a lot that went into this and I I just just the social media storm about it I don't think anyone took any time to dispassionately sit back and realize why the decisions were made why they were made um the the the 32 GB if if they went to 32 GB of RAM then they'd be using higher powerered Ram because the lpddr3 ram you you you physically cannot get to 32 gabt of it you can't do it you can do 16 you can't do 32 look at the look at the surface the surface has the same limitation with the same processor and it it's just it frustrates me you're frustrated you're disappointed and you're frustrated in your fellow humans Mike what what I like to do is I like to say look people you know please take a second examine the facts behind the situation and if you still have an issue after you know the facts then we can talk about it but if you're making if you're making an emotional decision based on engineering and electrical design principles that it's it's incompatible no one requires anyone to buy this machine no and and that's a true statement if you don't like the machine you know what then then buy the MSI machine please do electronics are not designed to be a to be a war surface they're designed to make your life easier or let you finish your job or do something like that and you you shouldn't need self validation because you pick something that somebody else didn't and if they want to give you a hard time about it let them give you a hard time about it but if you're happy with what you have be happy with what you have and then that's just you know I guess Mike's words to live on for this week I suppose oh well there you have it um yeah Mike's words to live by well you know the thing is is is Phil took a lot of time to defend the machine and he says that it wouldn't be apple if he didn't have passionate fans but and then he said that he was surprised at some of the some at some of the irritation about it but I I think that some of the irritation around it was built around an unrealistic an unrealistic Prospect of what people thought they were going to get with this machine yes now there there are some things like like we said right this messes with people's workflow because it's got different ports it's got a lack of ports in some cases but you you just you need to find ways to adapt right mhm and that's that's not necessarily um a big deal it's it's a minor deal but it's it's kind of annoying right they initially had an SG slot on the machine and they've had one on there for years and they picked the card format because pretty much everyone had it at that time mhm however the card slots never been amazing on the laptop right there there a couple of different types of SD slots there's some that you push in and they have latches and they're surface they they're flush mount with the surface in the app implantation it always just pushed in and stuck out from the side yeah about a quarter inch yep uh a little bit more than that more like half okay I'll go with that and stuff sticking out the side of their laptops is not exactly what they like yeah they're not a super fan of ports to begin with so something hanging out the outside yeah I'm not sure where that would fly yeah however it flew for several years I mean about I want to say 2010ish on it is is when that was introduced so for six years we've had an SD card that could hang out the side of the laptop and Apple's vision is one of things becoming Wireless of things becoming uh generics not the nice word I would say that more Universal Universal and uniform I think is what you're really looking for there yeah um and with the Thunderbolt 3 ports they're Universal they really are with an SD slot well it's it's for that one type of card and that one type of card can be replaced by Wireless transfer now if you're a pro photographer and you're using your camera and you don't want to do the transfer the files from a $66,000 job over Wireless great plug in your USB card reader but no one's forcing you to pick either path you can do either uh now one of the things that happened is that in in many Apple machines for years the um the headphone Port also doubled as an optical Port uh what would happen is there's there's toast link which is the Toshiba Optical standard that is used for pretty much all optical cable for home a gear there's mini toast link which is putting the optical light for lack of a better word at the very end of the headphone Port connection and you you plug in an adapter for an optical cable that looks like that headphone jack shape and it transfers the digital signal across the wire and that was built into Mac minis it was built into MacBook Pros it was built into to all the machines it was built into the airport express for long time yeah the first machine that popped up in as as default was in the G5 Tower yeah so we've had this port for an awful long time uh the 3.5 mil headphone jack was retained for professionals with audio gears that don't have wireless Solutions and still need the jack for Mac OS but how many people are running digital audio out of their Macs I have I'm not currently um I've used did you do that for what were you doing believe believe it or not the only reason why I did it was before the when the Mac Mini first came out had a DVI port and it didn't have HDMI and there was no good way to get audio from the Mac Mini to my television without it and so you did Optical to your television it was what I had available it was what I had left for inputs on my TV ah and that's the only reason that's the only reason I've ever used it and that was in7 yeah so I I so it's been yeah it's been a solid eight years since that was on your core solo Mac Mini no I know to be fair I had the core Duo I wasn't stupid um but yes it was that same generation it was the same generation yeah so the the reason why people would do something like that back then is that back then the Mac shipped with a uh a home audio video front end that you could enable using the Apple remote that worked with the the Mac Mini at that time and it was called front row yep pre-app TV just a year preapp TV uh incorrect the Apple TV was introduced in 2007 at the same time as front row and what am I thinking of I don't know cuz I had the Mac anyway it doesn't really matter it's the fact is I used the mini with the television with the optical cable before I got the Apple TV yeah so there you go yeah no the Big Apple TV that had a uh an actual physical hard disk inside was 40 or 160 gig and and was actually uh an intel-based Apple TV love that thing I thing was fantastic that was 2007 that that debuted January 2007 and the first known indication of the term hobby for it but yes absolutely fantastic product anyway moving on so that's what that optical cable was for at the time and and now it's no longer around because for years front row hasn't been on the Mac and no one's really needed it if you were doing Pro Audio things um you you used a different type of digital connection to get the audio out probably over USB or something else there there are no DJs that were using that Optical out yeah we know yeah apple told us that they removed it because customers weren't using it exactly and I completely buy that I you know I thought back to my own Recollections the last time I used it and so I'll use ports on these computers sometimes just so I can say I did so and that's really not much more than what I did with it in 2007 so and I agree I don't think with anyone that I've done any support work for recently that I've even seen anybody using it that way everything everything I've used everything I've seen has either been using HDMI audio or just a regular headphone jack breakout with the red and the white plugs after the headphone jack so yeah I again I agree with you I don't think this is a major emission I think that this is just an evolution of the headphone jack I don't think it belies what Phil said about it about keeping the port because it is still a pro machine people leapt up immediately said aha you're lying because we need toss link as a pro machine well no I I don't think that's actually the case yeah and and on the whole let's think about it right you got something thin you got something light it has wide color gamut it has touch bar it has Touch ID there there's a lot right about where this is going even if you don't like this particular model you may like the next one yeah this is the shift right this is the heading shift this is you've got the retina machine and it had all these ports and it had this processor and it had the larger bezel and now this is where we're going now and this is the next few years this is the direction we're taking with this machine and like I said I I think that you may not like this model but you might like the next one or the one after that much like the iMac much like when the first iMac came out it was a 23 233 MHz G3 with two USB ports and that's it no no ADB no cereal no nothing and and wireless wasn't even a thing yet the airport wasn't even a thing yet you had had an airport card slot it did not sir no you're right it did not yep the airport card slot came in with the uh with the DV series that's correct underneath that fancy little door with the where the ram was um some needed the mezine slot and some did not but that's a not the mesine slot the airport little carrier slot and some did not but that's a story for a different day yeah the um and I I think the same thing is going to happen with this machine I think this is the first iteration and it will change over the next four years will it be another year till the next upgrade yeah I mean we're not going to look at another upgrade in this machine in February with anything I would I would suspect the next upgrade of this machine is around this time next year okay so you think it's one year out as opposed to two years out I think it's I think it is no more than 18 months out o that's that's not definite at all and I think that's going to depend on Intel I think it's going to depend on intel if they keep up their production rates I think it's going to depend on if they can actually stick with this Tick Tock talk thing and not make it a talk talk talk so it Apple is very much in the hands of another company for this and there's there's speculation that Apple might use the A10 for the Mac but the A10 processor architecture is isn't exactly what you want in a machine like the Mac it doesn't do symmetrical multiprocessing that well um it it does it but not as well wait wait wait no the iectures are different and well I'm sure that there's no S10 version running on it it is not suitable for a pro machine if it wants to be if you stop everything oh come on now what hear me out hear me out if you were going to introduce an arm processor like the A10 or a hypothetical since We're Dreaming an a11 why not right it's inevitable sure we'll call it the a11 uh an a something the future a series processor made by Apple into a laptop running Mac OS If I Were King of the world I would do it first to something like a 12-in Macbook that was exactly what I was in the middle of saying before you interrupted me I got to get a word here edge wise I know I I talk a lot again New England right so you you you do it as a transition into the product that's going to need to take advantage of long battery life like the MacBook that people don't think of as being the pro machine that does everything and runs TV studios and all this stuff like the MacBook you you do it in a way where it can do all the things that is competent at and beat the prior Intel version but doesn't disappoint anyone along the way and I'm in complete agreement with you it right now the Aeries processor is not a good choice for the Mac Pro or the iMac it is a good choice future one could be since we're talking about stuff that doesn't exist it could be but it won't be in the next 18 months and and so for now and so for now apple and Intel are their their Fates are intertwined there's there's no one like going back to the power PC chip which still exists by the way is not an option not by Motorola doesn't not by Motorola but it is but the power PC chip still exists yes IBM still makes power chips and and you know we're not going back no no we're not um and we're not going back because partially there aren't multiple suppliers Apple needed to choose from both Motorola and IBM especially after motorol at the time uh crippled Supply so badly that they couldn't actually make the product introduction that they wanted to make for Power Mac g3s and we're not going back because IBM never could make the mobile G5 the way that we needed to have The PowerBook Advance right what were the jokes said to be a 3-in thick laptop uh something like that that was what the the rumor was but basically the when IBM and apple agreed to work together to make the G5 there had to be a mobile processor as well and they never made it and they never could and that was when the switch over to Intel happened yeah it prepared for it long in advance that's when it took place I have no doubt I have no doubt that on a desk somewhere in copertino right now that os10 as we know it is running we know this this is Absol this is not something that speculative it's it's known the uh and we know it because we see hints for it within ma Sierra so it's just not going to happen soon and you know and interviews from CET and interviews with Phil Schiller here and they've all said that that Mac OS and iOS is going to remain separate at least for the time being and because they think that they're that they are discreet products deserving their own Lifestyles their own their own their own trees their own development their own everything well and and because we don't need a touchscreen on the uh the laptop either yeah you know what I've used PC laptops you know again as a reminder to the to the readers and listeners who may not be familiar with me I I I do not bleed in six colors okay I'm a fan of Apple products but but when when they said that you know you get the Popeye forearms using a vertical touchcreen they're completely right it is it's bad it is bad ergonomics to be using a laptop touchcreen it's terrible once upon a time in a previous venue I reviewed the Dell xps1 which if you don't know what that is it's a it was a 27inch all-in-one around the time of the very first retina IMAX it was it was a solid PC but man using that touchcreen was insane it's just not a good experience yeah so we'll see with the touch bar when I when I get my machine and it will be here in December the advantage of the touch bar is that your hands are already at the keyboard they're already in the home row if you're already at ASDF jkl semicolon and all you have to do is reach up and your touch bar is right there you're not moving so far that it makes bad sense yeah so I'm you know I'm in complete agreement with that and it's just the people that know me wonder why I'm so positive on the MacBook Pro and I'm positive on the MacBook Pro because it is a solid machine with solid design principles and they and frankly for lack of a better turn of phrase they did the best they could with what they had available to them solid so solid we have an unboxing of this very MacBook Pro we have the actually the the 13inch because that's the one that's available shipping right now and we have that with the classic physical function row unboxing in the show notes and I want to encourage everyone to go and take a look at it because there's always something informative about how these things are packaged yes okay fine it's a box wrapped and cellophane but the way that Apple goes ahead and cradles the laptop in a black Therma form the way that they put the uh the literature on top that says welcome the you know the different types of things that Apple do to make your first introductory steps into opening the laptop slightly welcoming and that's what's interesting to see here in our unboxing that we'll Post in the show notes anyway more importantly than any of that is that the uh the MacBook Pros Get Loud the speakers they were in the keynote they had a video that highlighted how they'd managed to redo the speaker design in a laptop that's as thin as this and interestingly because they've done it with this redesign and made it more efficient the speakers get 58% louder than that's a good last Model yeah that's a really good addition I'm very pleased with that was not of of all the things I of that Apple released I I think that that was the most unexpected because they're they're dealing with a very small chamber there and and for good sound reproduction the the I mean obviously there's a limit to this but the the the better the bigger better oriented Chambers you can gather the better off you're going to be well it's it's physics you have to be able to push air and you're not just pushing air out because when you're pushing air out you're pulling from the backside but when you retract the speaker you're you're actually pushing air back in too and so when you have a uh a speaker en closure that matches the physical size needed to be able to push the air you get good sound when you don't have the right size enclosure you can't do it people try and overcome this with things like passive radiators that also move to increase the the virtual space of the enclosure it's really interesting to see how they've gone ahead and changed speaker design to be able to account for this without breaking the laws of physics science on the Apple Insider podcast there you go well let's wrap it up Mike is there any parting thought that you'd like to give people Phil Schiller said that you need to try the machine and I'm in complete agreement with him and that's where the rubber hits the road right when you actually sit and use a machine now the Apple stores are going to be packed but if you're on the fence don't just decide yes or no based on what other people are saying go and sit down for 5 minutes at 11 o'clock at an Apple Store when it's as quiet as possible I I know that's hard and use the keyboard which is different than the MacBooks which is different than the 2015 MacBook Pros sit down and look at the screen examine the viewing angles listen to the speakers use the machine for a couple minutes and for nothing else than to type the first couple of words of War and Peace into the notepad and and see what you think about the machine before you make the gut yes or no we've given you the data we've given you the statistics we've given you the numbers and we giv you the wise and it's it's up to you to figure out what that adds up to all right this has been episode 93 of the Apple Insider podcast Mike where where can people find you on the internet well my last name is kind of terrible but we'll put it in the show notes I'm at Mike worthly Twitter and you can find me every weekday at appleinsider.com brilliant well this is Victor marks this is the app Insider podcast we'll be back next week where we find out if Mike worthley is indeed solidyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to episode 93 of the Apple Insider podcast where we talk about all things mac Apple iPhone iPod iPad and more joining me is Mike Worley Mike how you doing hello back from my super secure bunker in Northern Virginia your lair as it were all right well before we get into talking about that I want to talk about deals two of Apple's newly unveiled 13-in MacBook Pros without a touch bar are in stock at our good friends B&H with no tax outside of New York and you can also save $400 off a mid 2015 MacBook Pro with no tax outside New Jersey or New York or pick up a 12in Macbook at $50 to $100 off a 13in air 1.6 GHz 8 gig 256 gig so forth is 949 and and so we've got all these deals and more in the show notes but what's cool about this is if you're seeking a MacBook Pro and you want a very capable machine but without the touch bar and and some of these kinds of things uh and still want the luxury of Mag safe too then this 15-inch deal may be the way to go for you the uh if you want that 13in without the touch bar we have that available here also and that that you can save about um well let's see the the 13in without a touch bar is in stock and its price is of course $149 99 and because you don't have to pay the tax uh to New York because you're outside of New York you save about $120 at least upfront uh taxes being of course your own responsibility to your own local uh and you can save $20 when you add Apple Care to that purchase so so basically we've got some interesting deals and we're going to make them available in the show notes now Mike obviously we've been talking about how important headphones are especially with the absence of the headphone jack on the iPhone 7 yeah so what are people doing to solve this this problem well this critical lack there is the Apple W1 ship which they use across two beats products and the airpods uh the only problem with that is only two of those products are shipping only the Beats products are actually shipping right now the airpods uh been a little dramatic on the airpods the Chinese supply chain initially indicated that they would be pushing to January which we got that news and it didn't make a lot of sense to us so we decided to delve into it a little bit using the Apple Insider Resource Network for lack of better term and we were told by sources inside Apple corporate mind you that there was no way that the airpods are going to get pushed past Christmas right because just in terms of of you know projected sales that would kind of stink for Apple wouldn't it I think from an adoption standpoint I don't think that would be great the while the beats the Power Beats are just now hitting the stores and if you order a pair from Apple online right now you'll get them sometime next week those are a little bit later than they thought they were going to be so there was some there was some speculation that there might be an issue with the W1 but the fact that the Beats products are shipping and the airpods are not no one really knows what's going on with that so I would suspect that we're going to see these I'm guessing the first week of December um but I'm fairly confident in the information that we are given by our sources that tell us that we'll see them well in time for the Christmas season right and retail locations do have perhaps a couple of pairs for customer demonstration so uh they're not out yet as I understand it the we pulled 10 stores and six of the stores had demo units waiting for the word from corporate to go ahead and start demonstrating um I have not had a chance to go and verify any of these locations in person to see if there's any behind glass or anything like that but I presume that there is not at this time okay so airpods power beads 3 and beats solo 3 wireless which are the on ear headphones are the ones that are going to have the W1 chip yeah that's all that's been announced right now in the W1 now what exactly has Apple has in mind for long term of the W1 which debuted in the iPhone 7 I really don't know and no one's really sure is it going to be licensed don't know is it going to be apple on Beats only don't know we'll see I got a the W1 isn't in the iPhone 7 the W1 is in the headphones themselves right it debuted alongside the iPhone not I guess I should be more clear it debuted alongside the iPhone 7 not in the iPhone 7 so yeah um and it's it's you know we we've had uh completely uninformed speculation that the W1 could be licensed out under the same kind of of process that the chips are licensed out for mfi program and hom kid and so forth yeah there's just no evidence of that right now it does make sense that they would do that but we haven't even heard anything in the rumor change suggesting that that's going to happen anytime soon right and it would my guess would be that Supply is so low at this moment that it it's that conversation hasn't begun because you couldn't get them if you wanted Bluetooth is a funny technology it's driven by a bunch of different companies and there's different classes of Bluetooth that determine range and power and well well it's it's not well just it's not classes it's level of the spec right revisions of the spec so yeah there's Arata there's Bluetooth classes there there's so many different V when you can say Bluetooth but it's this big bucket well there's there's Bluetooth 2.1 which gave us avrcp and a2dp and then Bluetooth 3 which was the beginning of having Bluetooth data that then passed over to Wi-Fi for bigger data transmission then Bluetooth 4 that gave us the the Lo tooth low energy spec 4.1 is a part of that but you get better range and better battery life kind of thing well even on top of that there's still AATA integral to the to the protocol from Bluetooth 4 to Bluetooth 4.1 there have been nine AATA which they can be implemented in software they can be implemented in Hardware which adds an additional complexity on top of compatibility from Bluetooth to blooth it's it's a very complex situation and I I think that that has more to do with the W1 since the W1 does work with Bluetooth in general it has to right because it has the iPhone it rides on top of Bluetooth so I I just think that I think that apple is taking a little bit of extra time to make sure that the S the software works well with the hardware and and that the the W1 and the in the earpods and the earpods themselves are compatible with a wide array of devices I think that's what all this is I don't think it's anything more sinister than that okay good to know that that's that's where you stand I was was thinking that uh you know they they've had some units out in reviewer's hands not in our hands of course but they've had them with some people and and theyve functioned so it's the difference between something that's functional and works for most people in a review situation versus being widely rolled out and everyone uncovering something so they' they've found a few things they're getting ready yeah I I believe so too and if you look at the reviews of the airpods they're all they all happen about the same same time so it's not like it's just one pair of airpods getting passed from venue to venue and there all were the airpods with the iPhone 7 the airpods with an iPad or the airpods with a Mac they they really didn't stray that far from airpods and apple they really didn't look at any third parties in any depth so I I think that that that compatibility is what this is about what this is sold for right if you're buying an iPhone and you're interested in the the the headphones the airpods that have the W1 chip you're not buying those W1 airpods to work with an Android device well no you're not but they do advertise it is compatible with any Bluetooth device surely and and so it will be but you know if you're handing them to a reviewer what what are you're handing here's your review kit right here's the kit that you're meant to go and review here's the reviewer's guide that tells you how we want you to look at it and what things we want to highlight to you that you should mention and the things you should test right they they lay out and prepare the reviewer so that you you've got it all together and what you're doing and know what they want to show you right so they're not going to give you an Android phone and say hey go test it with this their intention is show it off with our latest thing because we think that's how our consumers are going to buy the thing anyway well sure and I get that but my point was is that any issue that it might have with a third-party piece of Hardware wouldn't necessarily have been revealed in the first initial Impressions and reviews of the hardware that's all yeah something that they know and test for anyway right yeah so absent those ones being widely available other people are introducing Bluetooth because now is a great time to jump in and take advantage of that opportunity if you're a manufacturer well sure master and dynamic have got their MW 50s that they rolled out this week um metal and leather of all things they they're that's no surprise if you're a fan of Master Dy no it's they're very old time looking they're they're not like you know the huge plastic muffs popularized in the 70s or anything like that no um they're they're premium they're primarily made of stainless steel cowhide leather headband lambskin leather wrapped around memory phone earpads um and they say that they're lighter than their MW 60s which you know they are those are pretty Mammoth but they they're also a higher-end product there's 40 mm bellium drivers with a range between 5 and 30,000 Hertz twin microphones for voice input um and they say that they'll go 16 hours on the battery which I'm reasonably impressed with and they have Bluetooth 4.1 which has the better power management and aptex audio which you know you get for free anyway and 33t range which is fairly standard for Bluetooth audio uh especially for a 4.1 system they're they're 449 bucks but that's competitive in the market segment that they're comp that they're in this this you shouldn't look at this and go oh my God I'm never going to buy those because they're a boutique brand they are a boutique brand but that's the thing is you there has to be a range of products right I mean there's the $5 headphones you can get at the convenience store and you won't hear much and you won't hear much of anything or you can you can be that audio file and get the higher-end stuff that's made of wood and not plastic and and and deal with the resonance in the wood rather than resonance in plastic or a metal casing so yeah and you know if if manufacturers never make the very best thing that they know how to make then they never know how to translate and and trickle that quality down to the next lower model that eventually becomes cost affordable to you right if if you never make the very best thing then you don't know where to cost reduce from I am not an audio file but I respect the people that are and I understand most of their choices I mean the the $10,000 USB cables I don't quite get well not withstanding that so Neil Hughes esteemed Neil Hughes who hasn't been on the show for a little bit but he'll be back I promise we've been a little busy yeah Neil uses master and dynamic headphones and he normally uses their microphone attached to their headphones when he podcasts with this show and he is a fan of them why did he spend the money on master and dynamic headphones because they they were not provided by Apple and cider corporate they were provided by Neil Hughes he bought them because he lives very very minimalist like you know he has very few possessions in life and he makes sure that the ones that he has are the very best the ones that bring him Joy they do and he will tell you if you ever stop him if you can't ever stop him he's too busy but if you can never stop him he will tell you master and dynamic that's the way to go cuz that's what he likes so very cool for master and dynamic that they've introduced this and we'll see if Neil replaces his own set also available in Apple Stores now are headphones from the black ey peas FR men will I IM along with models from Kendall Jenner and Naomi gamble these are the IM plus buttons which are are Bluetooth wireless earbuds that are available at Apple Store stores and nean Marcus and Bloomingdales this being an audio mostly medium the best way you can imagine these is Apple's ear pods with a stack of two quarters on the outside of them no no no they're they're they're shiny brushed metal uh caps on the end the size of two quarters they're they're brushed in a circular Sunray kind of effect that that leads you to sort of take the queue as if they were a grooved vinyl record they are attractive they they they do strongly resemble some of the other products at will IM has produced this is not his first audio device I believe this is his sixth um he's also you know coincidentally or or not he's working on planet of the apps that that curated apps development show that apple is partnering with to get that done yeah so it's uh the things are growing and the nice thing that Apple has done with USBC and Bluetooth is they've really pushed the adoption of the Technologies and Bluetooth is is prevalent now USBC will get there and we're going to talk a little bit more about that coming up later but this is exactly the kind of thing that Apple Driving the market forward helps to promote right now what's important about these bluetooth earbuds is is let's talk about just what they look like besides so they've got these metal discs the metal discs are magnetic so that they help keep the earbuds secure around your neck when you're not using them they attach together it's convenient um sometimes magnetic headphones like that actually use that as a a way to turn them off so that they power save when they're not in use I don't know if these do that oh yeah no I have a pair that's made by a company called puregear and the puregear ones which are very affordable um use the magnet at the ends of the earbuds when they stick together they turn themselves off so that they power save okay yeah it's pretty cool a can's kind of guy got this big old manly head with these really tiny baby ear canals so any kind of earbud is no one wants to hear about ear canals no probably not they're clean though so you that's a plus you say that um the the thing that you in terms of earbuds is you need to get yourself some decs okay Debs are earbuds and they come with a thermofoam um earpiece that you you mold to fit your ear you heat them up and then you put them in and mash them in they adjust to your ear canal and then when they cool they they fit perfectly in your ears only H okay that's kind of cool that way you have earphones that are customized for your ears you're striking a dim recollection in that I believe I've heard of those but have not you know we talked about them on the podcast a couple times with everything else that goes through my head I you know it gets stored for future use at some point yeah so the W1 let's let's be clear the w1s have no wires at all the the the uh IM plus which is the Kendall Jenner Willie IM and Naomi Campbell project the buttons as they're called uh they have a cable that goes between the two ears yep which is the which is most common in wireless earbuds yeah but let's be care there there is a wire oh yes two wires if you want to be technical there's the wire that you have when you're wearing them and there's the wire that you use to charge them that's true that's true uh the buttons are 230 bucks and they're available in four different color combinations they're in black and gold white and gold black and space gray or white and rose gold so you can match all your fun Apple products that's that's going to be nice actually that's quite nice so we've we've covered it we've said master and dynamic we've covered the IM Plus buttons we got uh pure gear got a mention in there and decb got a mention in there that's four different types of bluetooth headphones that are available to you that if you've got a uh an iPhone 7 make a ton of sense so let's carry on I want to talk a little bit about the MacBook Pro okay what exactly would you like to address there's a lot of topics that have come up this week including one that while we may not have been the first to talk about we were the first to put a coherent argument toward it what would you like to discuss well first of all I'm going to talk about Phil Schiller okay okay Phil Schiller has been at the the head of worldwide marketing for a long time Phil's seen it all he's seen everything from the 1998 iMac forward he's seen maybe before that he's he's been around and if if if you had to encapsulate what the personality of Apple is I would start by saying that it's Johnny IV and Phil Schiller just because they've been around to shape at the longest in recent history so we we've had a lot of talk online on Twitter and and even we talked about it when I was on phone with with Dan last week about people being a little bit dis disappointed in the pricing of the new Macbook Pro MH uh that that there was criticism about how it was equipped there was criticism about the pricing there was there was you know people were looking forward to this as the machine that would fit their budget and their needs and when the announcement was made they had a harder time fitting what their expectations were with what was released well and Phil Phil gets this but the the best most anticipated Apple product is one that hasn't been announced it it's nothing that Apple has ever done has ever appeased the entire market and and it will never because if they do that kind of thing and Phil has said this kind of thing in the past if they do that shotgun approach then people will be sort of happy but not super happy the the thing is that Schiller says is that they basically they melt the very best MacBook Pro they knew how to build right and it may not be for everyone on day one but a lot of people felt that way about the first iMac 2 because hey that had no serial ports it had no scuzzy it had no monitor out it had all kinds of things stripped out of it and it turned out to be a very good machine for a ton of people so it's it's important to remember that that pretty much every product they've ever released has had some kind of criticism in some kind of debate and their onl store has had more orders for the new Macbook Pro than any other Pro notebook they've sold before I I I think he's also talking about the fact that this is also the first MacBook Pro case redesign in four years the 2012 retina MacBook Pro being the first one the case redesign isn't really an issue for anyone well it that comes with a lot of things the apple with the iMac they had the first design and the exterior design didn't change that much but some of the Cosmetics changed over the next couple generations and the port offerings the addition of fire wire and the addition of of DVDs and so the product evolved over time and I I don't think that this is going to be the last MacBook Pro we see until the next case design and he's right this machine may not be for everybody there are architectural issues that that Apple's not necess responsible for here they gave you they gave you four magic ports that do pretty much everything you could ever think to ask of them yep and I think that's great and people complaining about dongles either are newborns or haven't been using a computer very long this is not the first time that we've done this dongle dance and frankly even if you're a computer user now or have been one for more than two years you have some kind of adapter for something yes so this is why people are freaking out about this dongle thing I don't completely understand and people are saying well need a dongle for this and a dongle for this and dongle for this and dongle for this well no you don't you need a USBC cable to usbb to go to a hub and then you have the Hub deal with all your existing cabling yeah and I actually have one of those USBC to usbb actually no it's a usba uh Port as opposed to the the that works that works works works fantastically is what it does um what what this really is is that when you introduce a new magic Port that can do just about everything you have to wait a little while for everyone else to catch up to it when USBC when when when usba right was introduced in 1998 on the iMac it was the first computer to ship with USB at all it was possible back then to to do weird things like uh I had a a PC motherboard that you could get a separate USB card for that would plug into it to give you USB ports but no one did that was that the PCI one or the one that went to the Riser on the motherboard it wasn't a p I when it was a riser off of a special header on the motherboard nasty yeah was fantastic in 1997 98 right but the peripherals weren't there either it took a long it took a little bit for the peripherals to catch up too because this is sort of a chicken and egg thing but now that we've had 2 years of USBC on the MacBook the 12-in laptop we've got this machine it's going to happen yeah I don't the complaints talking about well we needed a transition machine with USBC and usba no the transition the transition machine was the MacBook and this computer you knew it was coming you knew it had to be this way you knew it was going to be this way when the MacBook came out two years ago yeah your your transition machine if you need one and you don't so the the transition in the marketplace is that PC Computers lag behind especially ones sold for business right there are still machines out there that God help us have a VGA port on them mhm in 2016 and this is because in a lot of Institutions people have projectors that even if they have DVI and VGA connections on them the uh the structural wiring that is the the wire that connects the projector on the ceiling to the wall they ran the VGA cable they didn't run the HDMI cable sure yeah right and so this is the the brain damage you you have to get on board with the New Ports with the new technology and everyone will be happier when you do so go ahead recognize this is what you're getting into and adapt and if this isn't what you want then buy the mid 2015 machine But realize you're going to USBC anyway it's coming whe whether you want it to or not USBC is coming that is true but if you have a workflow if you have needs if you have some special way of doing your work and it's finicky and you want to stick with it then go ahead and buy the mid 2015 machine that's your way forward and and stick with it for a few years until your workflow is adapted or or don't and use your existing Hardware because it doesn't burst into flames when the new stuff comes out uh I mean Apple would prefer you buy something you know if you're buying from a company based in Korea for example it might burst in FL yeah that's a different matter but I I had to get the Samsung joke yeah that's fine here all week try the ve um is the machine perfect for everybody no and I alluded to this a little bit before but it was never going to be perfect for everybody the the choice of processors that Apple has used is the Skylake processor and people are complaining including some reviewers that why this doesn't this doesn't have cab Lake and I'm upset about that say people but cab Lake for what Apple wants to use it for isn't available there are no quadcore cabul lakes and in fact the next round of cabul lakes isn't even quad core machines quad core processor suitable for the MacBook Pro the next round of cabul lake is desktops and Xeon processors so a cabul lake quadcore will'll see the middle of next year the middle of 2017 and people are already saying that well Canon Lake will be ready for a 2017 Pro no it won't we're going to be in the same situation we are now with with Skylake we're going to have a quad core cab Lake by the end of next year but we're sure as hell not gonna have Canon Lake Mike slow down a second let's let's let me break it down for a moment okay when you design a laptop you inevitably are are making a bunch of decisions about compromises and you're making these decisions about compromises because you want to pack in the most power you can into the smallest amount of space with the with a reasonable amount of of power demand because you've got batteries you're running off of and you want those batteries to last for a useful amount of time when you're using the machine and you've also got to dissipate heat right you've got thermal heat created thermal heat you've got thermal created because you're you're running this in a small enclosure and the heat has to go somewhere so you have to evacuate the heat so what happens is you end up trying to Design Within These constraints and when Apple selects these parts there's the thermal design power rating of a chip right it says this is the maximum amount of heat generated by a component and that the cooling system is designed to dissipate so they know how much their fans can dissipate they know how much the heat pipes inside can dissipate and how much they can manage and move that heat around and if you go ahead and you put in a a processor that produces more than that thermal design power then you're going to end up with a machine that overheats you're going to cook your legs you're going to cook the system right you have to accept that these are the constraints and so the constraints that that exist within Apple spec for what they can do in a laptop that's this thin that dissipates heat that doesn't run its fans fulltime all the time the answer is use Skylake the answer is use Skylake because it doesn't exist in quadcore right I mean because C like doesn't exist in Quad right cabul like doesn't exist in quadcore so yeah I understand what you're saying and that is definitely definitely L is not available besides being quadcore it's not available with the TDP rating right so you simply don't have the part that people are wishing for it doesn't exist yet and you know here's the thing is people got steamed about this when the machine shipped and they didn't take that five minutes to take a look and see why and I'm I'm not going to make any pretenses about it I'm a man of science and technology I'm not the $6 million man I don't have you know cyborg Parts yes but as part of who I am and not just what I do is when things like this happen from Google or anybody I sit back and I say okay this does this and this is why they made that choice and now immediately immediately it was clear why Apple made the choice they did on the processors which which led to all these other things that happened down the line I'm wildly gesticulating here because I'm from New England but and you can't see it but there are these steps that happen and these Fallout things that happen because of some core engineering decision that Apple was forced into mhm so and you know the thermal design profile being one of them right so thermal design power yeah so I'm looking at a uh an Asus notebook I'm I'm looking at a uh no no it's it's an MSI notebook rather it's an MSI uh cx727 ql which is a very marketing friendly name it's a 17in laptop it's it's quite large it's quite thick it does have a core i7 KB like processor okay it's it's you know they they it can be done but the thing to note is that you know when when you do that right you've got so the the core M3 chips right they have these models that are 15 watts in the U series there are y series that are 4.5 Watts there are these these different i5 and i7 chips that are 7 y54 and 7 y75 chips that don't really have a customer friendly uh they're not a good decision because the TDP rating is so important for the performance of the processor and the TDP for those is very high right the the kbl Lakes instead of being 4.5 Watts they jump up to being these 15 watt kind of thing so a core I3 with a 15 watt TDP can actually end up being faster than a core i7 rated at 4.5 Watts but you're you're using more power you it doesn't fit within the design constraints that we're talking about for a MacBook Pro where you can shoehorn it into this gigantic 17-inch very thick laptop okay I mean I I'm I'm nodding my head yes and but they are yes could Apple have built a machine with 32 GB of RAM yes could APPA built a machine with a better GPU yes however given the stated goals of the machine and limitations of processor technology available at the time keep in mind that this machine wasn't out on the 1st of October this machine's been in development for how long we had a we had a leaked case picture in June right and and the leak case picture in June doesn't tell us how long it's been around it takes N9 months to be a to do a product development cycle so I mean there there's a lot that went into this and I I just just the social media storm about it I don't think anyone took any time to dispassionately sit back and realize why the decisions were made why they were made um the the the 32 GB if if they went to 32 GB of RAM then they'd be using higher powerered Ram because the lpddr3 ram you you you physically cannot get to 32 gabt of it you can't do it you can do 16 you can't do 32 look at the look at the surface the surface has the same limitation with the same processor and it it's just it frustrates me you're frustrated you're disappointed and you're frustrated in your fellow humans Mike what what I like to do is I like to say look people you know please take a second examine the facts behind the situation and if you still have an issue after you know the facts then we can talk about it but if you're making if you're making an emotional decision based on engineering and electrical design principles that it's it's incompatible no one requires anyone to buy this machine no and and that's a true statement if you don't like the machine you know what then then buy the MSI machine please do electronics are not designed to be a to be a war surface they're designed to make your life easier or let you finish your job or do something like that and you you shouldn't need self validation because you pick something that somebody else didn't and if they want to give you a hard time about it let them give you a hard time about it but if you're happy with what you have be happy with what you have and then that's just you know I guess Mike's words to live on for this week I suppose oh well there you have it um yeah Mike's words to live by well you know the thing is is is Phil took a lot of time to defend the machine and he says that it wouldn't be apple if he didn't have passionate fans but and then he said that he was surprised at some of the some at some of the irritation about it but I I think that some of the irritation around it was built around an unrealistic an unrealistic Prospect of what people thought they were going to get with this machine yes now there there are some things like like we said right this messes with people's workflow because it's got different ports it's got a lack of ports in some cases but you you just you need to find ways to adapt right mhm and that's that's not necessarily um a big deal it's it's a minor deal but it's it's kind of annoying right they initially had an SG slot on the machine and they've had one on there for years and they picked the card format because pretty much everyone had it at that time mhm however the card slots never been amazing on the laptop right there there a couple of different types of SD slots there's some that you push in and they have latches and they're surface they they're flush mount with the surface in the app implantation it always just pushed in and stuck out from the side yeah about a quarter inch yep uh a little bit more than that more like half okay I'll go with that and stuff sticking out the side of their laptops is not exactly what they like yeah they're not a super fan of ports to begin with so something hanging out the outside yeah I'm not sure where that would fly yeah however it flew for several years I mean about I want to say 2010ish on it is is when that was introduced so for six years we've had an SD card that could hang out the side of the laptop and Apple's vision is one of things becoming Wireless of things becoming uh generics not the nice word I would say that more Universal Universal and uniform I think is what you're really looking for there yeah um and with the Thunderbolt 3 ports they're Universal they really are with an SD slot well it's it's for that one type of card and that one type of card can be replaced by Wireless transfer now if you're a pro photographer and you're using your camera and you don't want to do the transfer the files from a $66,000 job over Wireless great plug in your USB card reader but no one's forcing you to pick either path you can do either uh now one of the things that happened is that in in many Apple machines for years the um the headphone Port also doubled as an optical Port uh what would happen is there's there's toast link which is the Toshiba Optical standard that is used for pretty much all optical cable for home a gear there's mini toast link which is putting the optical light for lack of a better word at the very end of the headphone Port connection and you you plug in an adapter for an optical cable that looks like that headphone jack shape and it transfers the digital signal across the wire and that was built into Mac minis it was built into MacBook Pros it was built into to all the machines it was built into the airport express for long time yeah the first machine that popped up in as as default was in the G5 Tower yeah so we've had this port for an awful long time uh the 3.5 mil headphone jack was retained for professionals with audio gears that don't have wireless Solutions and still need the jack for Mac OS but how many people are running digital audio out of their Macs I have I'm not currently um I've used did you do that for what were you doing believe believe it or not the only reason why I did it was before the when the Mac Mini first came out had a DVI port and it didn't have HDMI and there was no good way to get audio from the Mac Mini to my television without it and so you did Optical to your television it was what I had available it was what I had left for inputs on my TV ah and that's the only reason that's the only reason I've ever used it and that was in7 yeah so I I so it's been yeah it's been a solid eight years since that was on your core solo Mac Mini no I know to be fair I had the core Duo I wasn't stupid um but yes it was that same generation it was the same generation yeah so the the reason why people would do something like that back then is that back then the Mac shipped with a uh a home audio video front end that you could enable using the Apple remote that worked with the the Mac Mini at that time and it was called front row yep pre-app TV just a year preapp TV uh incorrect the Apple TV was introduced in 2007 at the same time as front row and what am I thinking of I don't know cuz I had the Mac anyway it doesn't really matter it's the fact is I used the mini with the television with the optical cable before I got the Apple TV yeah so there you go yeah no the Big Apple TV that had a uh an actual physical hard disk inside was 40 or 160 gig and and was actually uh an intel-based Apple TV love that thing I thing was fantastic that was 2007 that that debuted January 2007 and the first known indication of the term hobby for it but yes absolutely fantastic product anyway moving on so that's what that optical cable was for at the time and and now it's no longer around because for years front row hasn't been on the Mac and no one's really needed it if you were doing Pro Audio things um you you used a different type of digital connection to get the audio out probably over USB or something else there there are no DJs that were using that Optical out yeah we know yeah apple told us that they removed it because customers weren't using it exactly and I completely buy that I you know I thought back to my own Recollections the last time I used it and so I'll use ports on these computers sometimes just so I can say I did so and that's really not much more than what I did with it in 2007 so and I agree I don't think with anyone that I've done any support work for recently that I've even seen anybody using it that way everything everything I've used everything I've seen has either been using HDMI audio or just a regular headphone jack breakout with the red and the white plugs after the headphone jack so yeah I again I agree with you I don't think this is a major emission I think that this is just an evolution of the headphone jack I don't think it belies what Phil said about it about keeping the port because it is still a pro machine people leapt up immediately said aha you're lying because we need toss link as a pro machine well no I I don't think that's actually the case yeah and and on the whole let's think about it right you got something thin you got something light it has wide color gamut it has touch bar it has Touch ID there there's a lot right about where this is going even if you don't like this particular model you may like the next one yeah this is the shift right this is the heading shift this is you've got the retina machine and it had all these ports and it had this processor and it had the larger bezel and now this is where we're going now and this is the next few years this is the direction we're taking with this machine and like I said I I think that you may not like this model but you might like the next one or the one after that much like the iMac much like when the first iMac came out it was a 23 233 MHz G3 with two USB ports and that's it no no ADB no cereal no nothing and and wireless wasn't even a thing yet the airport wasn't even a thing yet you had had an airport card slot it did not sir no you're right it did not yep the airport card slot came in with the uh with the DV series that's correct underneath that fancy little door with the where the ram was um some needed the mezine slot and some did not but that's a not the mesine slot the airport little carrier slot and some did not but that's a story for a different day yeah the um and I I think the same thing is going to happen with this machine I think this is the first iteration and it will change over the next four years will it be another year till the next upgrade yeah I mean we're not going to look at another upgrade in this machine in February with anything I would I would suspect the next upgrade of this machine is around this time next year okay so you think it's one year out as opposed to two years out I think it's I think it is no more than 18 months out o that's that's not definite at all and I think that's going to depend on Intel I think it's going to depend on intel if they keep up their production rates I think it's going to depend on if they can actually stick with this Tick Tock talk thing and not make it a talk talk talk so it Apple is very much in the hands of another company for this and there's there's speculation that Apple might use the A10 for the Mac but the A10 processor architecture is isn't exactly what you want in a machine like the Mac it doesn't do symmetrical multiprocessing that well um it it does it but not as well wait wait wait no the iectures are different and well I'm sure that there's no S10 version running on it it is not suitable for a pro machine if it wants to be if you stop everything oh come on now what hear me out hear me out if you were going to introduce an arm processor like the A10 or a hypothetical since We're Dreaming an a11 why not right it's inevitable sure we'll call it the a11 uh an a something the future a series processor made by Apple into a laptop running Mac OS If I Were King of the world I would do it first to something like a 12-in Macbook that was exactly what I was in the middle of saying before you interrupted me I got to get a word here edge wise I know I I talk a lot again New England right so you you you do it as a transition into the product that's going to need to take advantage of long battery life like the MacBook that people don't think of as being the pro machine that does everything and runs TV studios and all this stuff like the MacBook you you do it in a way where it can do all the things that is competent at and beat the prior Intel version but doesn't disappoint anyone along the way and I'm in complete agreement with you it right now the Aeries processor is not a good choice for the Mac Pro or the iMac it is a good choice future one could be since we're talking about stuff that doesn't exist it could be but it won't be in the next 18 months and and so for now and so for now apple and Intel are their their Fates are intertwined there's there's no one like going back to the power PC chip which still exists by the way is not an option not by Motorola doesn't not by Motorola but it is but the power PC chip still exists yes IBM still makes power chips and and you know we're not going back no no we're not um and we're not going back because partially there aren't multiple suppliers Apple needed to choose from both Motorola and IBM especially after motorol at the time uh crippled Supply so badly that they couldn't actually make the product introduction that they wanted to make for Power Mac g3s and we're not going back because IBM never could make the mobile G5 the way that we needed to have The PowerBook Advance right what were the jokes said to be a 3-in thick laptop uh something like that that was what the the rumor was but basically the when IBM and apple agreed to work together to make the G5 there had to be a mobile processor as well and they never made it and they never could and that was when the switch over to Intel happened yeah it prepared for it long in advance that's when it took place I have no doubt I have no doubt that on a desk somewhere in copertino right now that os10 as we know it is running we know this this is Absol this is not something that speculative it's it's known the uh and we know it because we see hints for it within ma Sierra so it's just not going to happen soon and you know and interviews from CET and interviews with Phil Schiller here and they've all said that that Mac OS and iOS is going to remain separate at least for the time being and because they think that they're that they are discreet products deserving their own Lifestyles their own their own their own trees their own development their own everything well and and because we don't need a touchscreen on the uh the laptop either yeah you know what I've used PC laptops you know again as a reminder to the to the readers and listeners who may not be familiar with me I I I do not bleed in six colors okay I'm a fan of Apple products but but when when they said that you know you get the Popeye forearms using a vertical touchcreen they're completely right it is it's bad it is bad ergonomics to be using a laptop touchcreen it's terrible once upon a time in a previous venue I reviewed the Dell xps1 which if you don't know what that is it's a it was a 27inch all-in-one around the time of the very first retina IMAX it was it was a solid PC but man using that touchcreen was insane it's just not a good experience yeah so we'll see with the touch bar when I when I get my machine and it will be here in December the advantage of the touch bar is that your hands are already at the keyboard they're already in the home row if you're already at ASDF jkl semicolon and all you have to do is reach up and your touch bar is right there you're not moving so far that it makes bad sense yeah so I'm you know I'm in complete agreement with that and it's just the people that know me wonder why I'm so positive on the MacBook Pro and I'm positive on the MacBook Pro because it is a solid machine with solid design principles and they and frankly for lack of a better turn of phrase they did the best they could with what they had available to them solid so solid we have an unboxing of this very MacBook Pro we have the actually the the 13inch because that's the one that's available shipping right now and we have that with the classic physical function row unboxing in the show notes and I want to encourage everyone to go and take a look at it because there's always something informative about how these things are packaged yes okay fine it's a box wrapped and cellophane but the way that Apple goes ahead and cradles the laptop in a black Therma form the way that they put the uh the literature on top that says welcome the you know the different types of things that Apple do to make your first introductory steps into opening the laptop slightly welcoming and that's what's interesting to see here in our unboxing that we'll Post in the show notes anyway more importantly than any of that is that the uh the MacBook Pros Get Loud the speakers they were in the keynote they had a video that highlighted how they'd managed to redo the speaker design in a laptop that's as thin as this and interestingly because they've done it with this redesign and made it more efficient the speakers get 58% louder than that's a good last Model yeah that's a really good addition I'm very pleased with that was not of of all the things I of that Apple released I I think that that was the most unexpected because they're they're dealing with a very small chamber there and and for good sound reproduction the the I mean obviously there's a limit to this but the the the better the bigger better oriented Chambers you can gather the better off you're going to be well it's it's physics you have to be able to push air and you're not just pushing air out because when you're pushing air out you're pulling from the backside but when you retract the speaker you're you're actually pushing air back in too and so when you have a uh a speaker en closure that matches the physical size needed to be able to push the air you get good sound when you don't have the right size enclosure you can't do it people try and overcome this with things like passive radiators that also move to increase the the virtual space of the enclosure it's really interesting to see how they've gone ahead and changed speaker design to be able to account for this without breaking the laws of physics science on the Apple Insider podcast there you go well let's wrap it up Mike is there any parting thought that you'd like to give people Phil Schiller said that you need to try the machine and I'm in complete agreement with him and that's where the rubber hits the road right when you actually sit and use a machine now the Apple stores are going to be packed but if you're on the fence don't just decide yes or no based on what other people are saying go and sit down for 5 minutes at 11 o'clock at an Apple Store when it's as quiet as possible I I know that's hard and use the keyboard which is different than the MacBooks which is different than the 2015 MacBook Pros sit down and look at the screen examine the viewing angles listen to the speakers use the machine for a couple minutes and for nothing else than to type the first couple of words of War and Peace into the notepad and and see what you think about the machine before you make the gut yes or no we've given you the data we've given you the statistics we've given you the numbers and we giv you the wise and it's it's up to you to figure out what that adds up to all right this has been episode 93 of the Apple Insider podcast Mike where where can people find you on the internet well my last name is kind of terrible but we'll put it in the show notes I'm at Mike worthly Twitter and you can find me every weekday at appleinsider.com brilliant well this is Victor marks this is the app Insider podcast we'll be back next week where we find out if Mike worthley is indeed solid\n"