The Challenges and Considerations of Purchasing an Electric Vehicle Pickup Truck

Ford's electric vehicle (EV) pickup truck, specifically the Lightning, has been gaining attention for its impressive capabilities and features. However, as with any new technology, there are several growing pains that Ford must address in order to make this vehicle more appealing to potential buyers.

One major concern is the issue of battery-related problems, which can affect driveability and range. The Lightning's battery life can be significantly impacted by factors such as temperature, mileage, and charging habits. While some owners have reported issues with the truck's battery performance, Ford has taken steps to mitigate these problems, including limiting usage on certain features like the AC outlets in the back of the truck.

Another consideration for potential buyers is the price of the vehicle. When asked about the affordability of EV pickup trucks, John mentioned that used Lightnings are relatively cheap, with some models available for under $80,000. However, this may not be a sustainable option for everyone, as Ford has recently dropped the price on new Lightning models. Additionally, even though the base model is cheaper, it's still recommended to consider purchasing an extended warranty to protect against potential issues like battery degradation or software updates.

Towing and hauling are also significant considerations when it comes to EV pickup trucks. In a recent test, the Ford F-150 Lightning was found to significantly reduce its mileage when towing a trailer. This is due in part to the truck's advanced technology and the increased weight of the trailer, which can put additional strain on the vehicle's systems.

Climate is another factor that must be taken into account when considering an EV pickup truck. For areas with cold winters, like Indianapolis, battery range will significantly drop. As a result, owners may need to adjust their driving habits or consider alternative options.

Despite these challenges and considerations, some potential buyers may still be drawn to the Lightning's features, including its advanced technology like Blue Cruise, which offers hands-free Lane Centering and Adaptive Cruise Control. However, other EVs from manufacturers like Hyundai also offer similar features, making it worth exploring other options as well.

In conclusion, purchasing an electric vehicle pickup truck like the Ford Lightning requires careful consideration of various factors, including battery life, price, towing capabilities, climate, and features. While it's not necessarily a bad choice for everyone, potential buyers should be aware of these challenges and weigh their options carefully before making a decision.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhi and welcome back I'm Mike Quincy I'm John linov and I'm mie mccardy so as we usually start out these podcasts and I have this tendency to say we have a very special podcast today well they can't all be special I suppose but in this case it actually really is because we're talking about the 2025 Subaru Forester now why is that special because it's an Uber popular car uh it's been redesigned for this year this is a sixth generation Forester it's always been known for its great outward visibility easy functionality a roomy cabin and standard all-wheel drive there's new styling this year it's got really chunky fender flares a beef your grill and like headlights but let's not K ourselves it definitely looks like a Forester uh and that is not necessarily A Bad Thing uh the what's behind the scenes of this car is the company says the new model gets an increased use of sound deadening to try to make it the cabin a bit quieter and this has been a criticism of ours in the past uh it still has a a a flat four-cylinder engine 2.5 L hooked up to a continuously variable transmission that's sort of the the Subaru Mo these days uh Subaru claims that the engine has been retuned and refined but actually lost two horsepower along the way now down to 180 we bought a 2025 premium model which starts at $31,995 we added the loan option package which includes blind spot warning and rear cross traffic warning and a power rear lift gate we also added a few other odds and ends which along with the $ 1,395 destination fee brought the total to $35,500 super popular with Consumer Reports members always among the most searched card on our website and Mr linkov I'm going to start with you you can start putting this car in perspective and get the ball rolling yeah sure I mean like you said it's super popular on consumer reports.org in particular I mean we could track you know clicks track who who views what techology we have the ability um uh you know so Honda CRV Toyota Rav 4 are always up there you know you get a couple other you get maybe the Ford Escape Ford Bronco Mazda the Mazda CX5 and cx50 but you know Forester is always up there and in fact you know for so long it's been a model that we've been like waiting for the redesign you know and it and it was dropping in as as a you know as far as people clicking on it because where's the new one where's the new one so the interesting thing about it is that Subaru always plays well in the smile State the corners of the smile you know the upper Northeast you know the upper pack West you know but maybe not as much in the you know the the the Heartland the heart of the smile so to speak um you know so there it seems a little more of a it's it's been mainstreamed but still staying in that Subaru Ness I mean I think I I some feedback you know you hear over the years it feels a little thin it's a little noisy to you know to the sound deadening part you know you know before they had frame when they had frameless Windows you know the door slam was really light MH um but they're still trying to keep it a Subaru you know so you have that great visibility you have that huge Greenhouse there you know where you know you almost don't need I'm not saying that blind spot warning is bad but with the Subaru you like almost don't need blind spot warning because you can look over your shoulder and actually see what's there instead of seeing roof pillar um there those the reasons why I was a top pick it can course I mean standard all-wheel drive great fuel economy I actually think it's funny you know you talked again about it lost two horsepower but you don't notice that because it feels the transmission really gives you lower you know more torque down low more power down low and it still has the shifting where you don't really run it up where it's revving so high like most continuously variable Transmissions let engines you know they the RPMs rev up high you think it's doing a lot more noise than work I enjoy I mean I really enjoy driving it I mean there's still is a little bit for me that it feels still a little it's it's different than a CRV for example I think CRV really is a great vehicle in the class I like the CX5 mod CX5 over the cx50 this kind of fits in between it's not sporty like the CX5 um but maybe it's a little more towards a CF CRV but I think you know those three I think I feel are really some of the top performers in the category I I was thinking about how car companies redesigned maybe we call this kind of iconic cars important cars and we sometimes will criticize a car company for not doing enough to make it that much different or that much out of the box but then also when some car companies redesign a car and it goes and it gets worse and it's like oh my gosh they did too much they did so I mean M I'm look at at at the Forester and I'm thinking as as we mentioned it definitely looks like a Forester it definitely drives like a Forester did Subaru go far enough or is it just right well I don't know if they actually changed all that much that I have noticed as someone who looks at a lot of the controls inside the vehicle yes they did update it and the trend these days is to take your basic common features like your turn signal or your media or your even your gear selector and complicated over complicated it and Subaru has managed to keep it easy to use so you're going to have a regular uh turn signal on your left and your windshield wipers on your right and you can adjust the vents what a concept I know I know so I think in this regard Subaru did not make it worse which to me is good that's a plus right it is a plus yes you hop in the car and you know how to adjust your mirrors and your seat and it's not going to be an issue so I think they they got that part right for sure kind one one of the ways that I I think about controls is that can can you loan your car to your neighbor without having to to stand over their shoulder like this how you do this you know you could you could throw your key your keys to your new Forester to your neighbor and in all likelihood in 20 seconds they can adjust the seat and they're off and running exactly yes so so so so why do so many car companies seems like they want to be like Tesla they want to be they want to be flashy they want to make it complicated yeah they want to be flashy they're they operate on the assumption that their consumers and their buyers are going to like these features and the general s know who they're focusing like the same 12 people are being focused Group by everyone and you know the competition is being driven by other oems so Tesla like you said yes they put everything in their touch screen or touch capacitor buttons on their steering wheel and everyone's ooh like that's so cool and then Honda's like okay well maybe this is kind of cool I'm going to thr my climate controls in the touchcreen too and so it kind of just snowballs but I'm glad that Subaru has had the sense to keep the most important and even safety related features easy to access in hard controls right I mean if I could step on what you're saying I could see on one hand it's like oh well it's cost savings you know we put everything in the screen we don't have to make buttons we don't have to make buttons for the left drive and we don't have to make different buttons for the right hand drive the world etc etc but at the same time what are the warranty costs what are the what's the market loss what's the frustration with with people coming back to the dealer and having to have lessons taught about it salesperson time teaching them how to do there's got to be a trade-off on that right and you're still having problems with the controls I mean it's not like buttons you know yes buttons break buttons stick but it's not as if touch cap passive has eliminated those problems yeah I mean these touch screens have been around for a lot longer than we realize in cars but putting the climate controls in the touchcreen is a little bit more recent so we're going to have to see how the reliability of these touch screens hold up over the next decade or two right and Subaru and the Forester they did move their climate controls from hard dials and buttons into the touchcreen and the touch screen is much larger in this 2025 model it's now 11.6 in so you're going to see the majority of these Foresters coming with this larger screen and the climate controls are at the very bottom and they're mostly on the touchcreen there's two um controls for the hard buttons for like the temperature and then the defrosters but everything else you're going to have to look really down low and that's something that a lot of our testers have commented on is that it really draws their eyes down low away from the road so that is one thing about the Forester that is a little bit more difficult to use and it's something that people adj just frequently if not at least turning their their climate control on when they hop in the car actually one more point I want to bring up is is Android auto and Apple carplay so previously with the smaller screen Android auto and carplay were really kind of squished in and the buttons really tiny and hard to use and then Subaru upgraded to the larger touchcreen but Android auto and other models was still really small it wasn't fully utilizing the full screen and now we get a lot more space of the touchscreen being utilized which does make it easier to use so they have improved Android auto for people or and Apple carplay for people who do like to use those and and and since we are fortunate to have you you Maddie on this podcast uh because you are one of our Adas experts and you can you know politely remind our audience what Adas stands for and then talk about how Subaru is integrating it into the new Forester sure so Adas stands for advanced driver assistant systems and so in the Forester that comes with eyesight Suite so that's Subaru's Adas features that comes standard on the Forester that includes adaptive cruise control Lane centering assistance Lane departure warning Lane keeping assistance automatic emergency braking with pedestrian and cyclist detection what's interesting though is what's missing um was blind spot warning and rear cross traffic warning those are not standard they're not even optional on the Bas trim you have to go up to the second trim for an additional $1,200 so that's going to push the price tag above the 30,000 Mark and blind spot warning and rear cross traffic warning are some of our members favorite features and what they do is they help alert dri drivers to when there's a car in their blind spot or if you're backing up and a car is coming um across the road so they're really helpful safety features and it is a bummer that they're not standard on the Forester now Maddie if I can uh can you reflect sort of on how we've been what do we think about subu's eyesight system in general that we've that we've seen in our test cars sure so I'll just give you a little bit of background of what eyesight is I did mention all the features that go into it but they're using now three cameras in the front of your windshield above the rearview mirror um and so that creates a a nice wide angle of the road of the crossroads and the curbs um so that's what it's using to actually pick up Lane lines and detect other vehicles Etc so adaptive cruise control um in the Subaru Forester and other Subaru that we've tested it is able to maintain this speed at which you set it um but it can't quite keep up with faster moving traffic it's a little bit delayed in its reaction but then it kind of zooms forward so you're just watching Traffic Ahead race ahead and then you're kind of just left there before you get that really oom from the from the engine um but it is smooth and stoping go traffic which I find to be in my testing kind of rare so it's actually quite Pleasant if you're in stop Ando traffic and help maintain a set Gap from the vehicle in front of you as you're going through stop Ando traffic like downt toown or something and something we've started testing also is the lane centering assistance which Subaru I I feel like in general it does perform okay it's not my top choice for if I was going to go on a long road trip but I do think that it is a confident system it does tend to under steer when going through curves so you do have to manage it and maybe steer a little bit yourself to make sure you get through that curve but it is a nice tool to help alleviate some of the stress of driving curvy roads a little bit so some people might like it some people maybe not right so so honestly when the when the rubber meets the road in terms of driving John I don't know about you but I definitely noticed our Forester seems much quieter I mean it is still kind of a brick of a of a profile of a vehicle so you're not talking about you know slipping through the air without any any turbulence but I think road noise has gotten better I think engine noise has gotten better uh and and to me one of the big improvements compared to the last force that we tested the steering got better I'm a big steering guy I love feedback I I like a little bit of weight to the steering now I'm not going to come right out and say the Forester is a super sports car but I think it is is improved in in those areas that that I find important and I and I really want to get some some idea from from you guys when it comes to driving it what do you think yeah I mean Maddie do you want to go sure all sir so I have never driven a Forester before this one and my initial impression is this is a car that I would drive every single day I had no huge issues that stood out I did notice the engine noise so having not driven the last Forester that we uh we tested I did think it was still loud then um but not enough where I was like oh this I can't even hear my music so I thought it was fine I thought the ride was fine I'm not picky when it comes to the the steering of like How firm it is um I felt like a car that I could take out onto like back like off-roading a little bit like going camping so it it seemed like a really everyday car for me right especially the camping cuz the storage area is is really useful it's pretty big so much storage I love the size of the vehicle and I love the visibility so it feels like the inside of the car is actually bigger than the outside of the car and I love that and the the a pillars are thin and it feels like you can just see everywhere so you were talking about how you might not even need blind spot warning but I do advocate for getting blind spot warning but yes you do have really great visibility all around in an era of you know pinched backs and low front and and you know coup CP ification of the industry I it it's a breath of fresh air it you know and and yeah you you I find myself looking over the shoulder and not necessarily checking the blind spot like double check that I didn't see you know that I'm sure my eyes aren't playing a trick on me and so many other cars I mean it's it's multiple the you look there isn't anything there and then all of a sudden there's something there yeah like the window are like too high up but this cards it's fine it I mean sounds like it's daming it with fan praise but it it's it's a Forester and it does all the farest of things very well um I think the seats are much better you know for years we've always said move up above the premium get leather seats in any Subaru because the cloth seats really lose support and I found that these have more firmness now it's a new car you know it's got 6,000 5,000 m on it let's see when it's 26,000 mil but the old ones they would they would fall apart while you were while we were testing it so not fall apart but you know they would they would soften over an hour long trip you know you would begin to do the you know kind of like a dance in the seat so much better support um I I took it on a on a bike ride I you know I there was not a hitch on I put my bike in the back but you could sit in the back with the hatch open you know put on sh you know do whatever you need to do just relax at the end um it it does everything well it it's not the most exciting looking car in the sense of the category but for some people it is I mean that's the thing Beauty in the eye of a holder and and for me I'm not I mean look I don't want something that looks like a Pontiac Aztec and I will die in that Hill saying I will never I don't want that but it's it for me it's much more of the inside it's attractive enough on the outside but how does it work on the inside everything's at hand controls are easy to use for the most part yep the climates are low I run Apple carplay you know that's pretty integrated it actually lets me use the I believe the driver attention system driver monitor with sunglasses which some some systems you can't right so I mean I like that um so yeah man you want to touch on that yeah just really quickly the driver FOC driver Focus distraction mitigation system you're talking about um that's where it designed to alert the driver if it detects that their attention um shifts away from the road for too long so it's going to alert the driver and um that doesn't come on all of the trims and in the Forester it only comes on the top trim so if that's something that consumers are interested in make sure to get that top trim right and and moving I'm sorry go ahead I I should say it was from driving the uh The Borrowed one not ours but yeah I mean cuz sometimes we rent rent from manufacturers you know and I remember the said that I could drive it you know that there are number that tell you to take your sunglasses off or my you know the ones I tend to wear so yeah I do like that it's some polarized lenses it does struggle with um so it's just you'll get an alert if it can see your eyes this is a very competitive category you know smallish SUVs are what a lot of people want a lot of Manufacturers sell them comes down to what would you want in your driveway your own personal car in this category um and and mat I want to start with you what would what would be your pick in general yeah any vehicle in with with within within the the small SUV category I mean you know we're talking about uh Vehicles like these escape the Broncos sport the CRV the Tucson the Sportage you know bu the ones that that that John mentioned which one of of that group would do you think would be best for you honestly I think it would be the Forester because I like a car that has simple controls that I know how to use and the Forester Texs that box it's large enough that I can go on weekend Adventures I like the all wheeel Drive um I like the great visibility and it just seems like a sturdy car that will get where I need to go mhm John so the lack of a hybrid option I think is a and I know that there's talk about one coming but at this point without a hybrid the par loses that but but in historically speaking Subaru hybrids haven't been all that impressive they they weren't but the name of the game now today is is hybridization electrification whatever word you want to call it um so at that point it's not playing in that realm even if it gets great fuel coming from being standard over drive know totally um so I would probably Veer towards the Tucson the Hyundai Tucson particularly since the 2025 Tucson and now has a standard um a normal gear selector normal instead of a buttons or Knob or you know they've gone back to a traditional Prindle so um just one more feather in that cap right well and and I also I also went with a Tucson hybrid for my pick in this category same things that you're saying I love the fuel economy I think the ride is a little bit better but that doesn't take away anything from from the Forester CU I agree with you MD I do think it drives really well I think the styling to me for the Forester is just a little I don't want to say geeky but it's just like I don't know it it just seems unimaginative but I that's that's you know it has its Niche the eye and eye of the beholder and all that stuff like that they've also gone with the uh you know a very outdoorsy look on some of the trims as well you know I I can't tell you if it's a a woodland or out whatever the name of it is you know they have given it you know a little more you aggressive styling on some of those TRS right we were talking about dogs before we started shooting this podcast Subaru is a big big proponent of pet accessories for their vehicles I got to give them credit for that as a dog owner myself uh you can get these covers for the back seat you can get harnesses you get all that stuff so that's that's kind of cool they kind of found their niche as they say in marketing 101 right um and and that's so you know that's they kind of know they kind of know who they are they they know what Their audience is like and they're not trying to be something for everyone so we give them some credit for doing that um and just a reminder these these are our first impressions of this vehicle check back with consumerreports.org for the final test results and we have a our first drive that's uh live on our website so check it out if you want to learn more about the Forester and more is coming which brings us to our audience questions we love your questions text 30 second video send them all to talking cars icloud.com that's talking cars icloud.com and this just in if we use your question on our podcast we'll send you a free Consumer Report autot test t-shirt that all of us wear all the time and now you can look almost as cool as we do which of course we never look that cool but anyway um so um we've got a few questions for this podcast we're going to start out with one this is uh this is from Eric of Vancouver Canada who writes the newer start stop Tech I see in vehicles today is making me wonder about the long-term Parts reliability of all the components that are restarting each time is there actually a benefit in fuel saving longterm during idle shutdown to sacrifice the restarts that an engine experiences my mechanic Mind questions the engine being restarted so many more times a day would experience much more wear and tear how does that compare to a hybrid that's restarting during a drive so um good question from Eric we are seeing a lot more start stop systems these days and John I'm going to turn to you for our first uh shot of an answer I mean so look you some of its emissions not necessarily fuel economy you're not running the engine at idle so where you would be getting zero miles per gallon but the engine would be running you know you wouldn't be um you know talk about stops uh stopping go traffic you know I mean in a city more so than a highway you know you don't have just engines putting out solution you know even the even a super ultra low emissions vehicle will put something out so that's one of the benefits we haven't seen anything in our data I spoke to Steve ello who's you know a podcast uh panelist at times he said there there's not seeing anything in our data talked with John ibbitson and Mike Crossing in the garage uh haven't seen anything either in that sense I mean it's not as if they took the old starter that was on a car pre stop start technology and just said like all right just have it run I mean it's been I'm not telling you how or why I don't have that knowledge but it's not the same part um it's been you know evolved to handle this work um but one of the things Mike said is that you know hybrids they use one of the one of the two electric motors also to or one of the electric motors to handle this so you know one is inside a transmission so one of the motors is the drive regen unit the other one's handling starter and alternator work so it's not uh hurting this one part hitting it constantly uh the starter motor for the for the car so right the short is this is not rising up now okay we've seen start stop technology over over the decade at least say at least okay so maybe at 20- year mark we're going to start seeing them but right now there's no one not no one you know odd data saying like oh all of a sudden we're seeing an engine minor and it happens to be a starter motor or something like that seeing any of that and and and and to put this in in historical perspective Consumer Reports used to have a a part of our testing protocol called starting and running and this was when um there were a lot more carburetors uh that were very prone to temperature changes super cold rough starting super hot rough starting remember called vapor lock I heard about it I've heard about it and and you know what's interesting is so we have modern cars that have start stop systems that are are going on and off all the time during your your regular Drive you're running errands on a weekend or whatever uh there were times like a British or an Italian car you'd be happy if it started once and now we have cars that are restarting all the time it it just you don't even you don't even you don't even think about it um but we can come you know full circle with our discussion about the Forester which has a start stop system and we're finding that you know it restarts you pretty pretty quickly but there's definitely a pronounced kind of a shutter and and and you guys you know drive all the test cars and so we know that not start start stop systems are the same yeah I do and and some some have odd pauses and and you know you almost feel hung out at times and and I'm I'm working on the the consumer reports.org U online road test of our BMW X2 and if you recall the the Hoops that you have to jump through to go into the touchcreen to turn that system off Maddie remember that oh yes I do it's a couple layers deep in that menu right where whereas some of the better manufacturers just have a hard button that you can flip uh and and and also we've seen in our testing that sometimes in the summer when you come up to a stop light and the start stop system I don't know why I'm having trouble saying that um will like reduce your air conditioning uh Effectiveness so which why you're seeing a lot of 48 volt systems now so they'll R be able to run the air conditioning in the back electrical systems run that in the background while still shutting the engine so yeah so that's what I I'm going to stop talking about start stop system and start and start the second question we're going to go on the second question uh John writes I'm looking for a vehicle to be my daily driver usually around 60 m per day because of this I'm looking at EVS EV pickups in particular Consumer Reports rates the Ford F-150 Lightning low but a lot of people I talk to love it plus they are really cheap used with very low miles right now considering all the problems CR found am I dumb for wanting still in this truck and assuming Ford has fixed its issues by now or will at least make it easy for buyers to get them fixed um now Maddie uh you looked into this yes and I'm sure you have a great answer for J yes J John um I did talk to Steve who is Steve alic the panelist our our data reliability expert one of oh yes our data reliability genius because he helped me um he talked me through this a little bit and so he so he said that the lightning has it does have below average predicted reliability compared to other new cars in particular members reported having issues with their battery and with charging in particular and being an Eevee this is quite important so one one person told us in the comments that a module in the battery failed which substantially decreased the range yeah and it even though um John was talking about having a daily commute of around 60 miles if you're starting to tow anything or add weight into the bed of the truck that's going to reduce your mileage also so something that someone had a problem with another was the the charging so the charging port actually failed and needed to be replaced by the dealer so it seems that we are having some growing pains with this new lightning um something to consider there's also issues that they've experienced with the incar electronics so you have over the update over theair updates failing to complete and then just leave leaving the screen blank or freezing so another issue to be aware of um and then some noise and leak issues so overall not too bad there are they we do think it's just going to be some Growing Pains that Ford has to address um but if there are things that John that you're willing to to live with because you I mean I've used the lightning and I know a lot of people here love the lightning it has so many miles on it that we've had to actually limit who can take it for the day use the um AC outlets in the back of the truck to Power Electronics so I mean it is really up to whether or not he's willing to to look past the potential for these battery related issues yeah major issues of of driveability and getting to where you want to go and John when I looked at this question I was going to like I want to answer your question with more questions right good um why do you think an EV is is right for you why an EV pickup truck if you want a pickup truck to your point Maddie for for hauling for pulling a trailer an EV for that approach seems a little on the odd side and and John I don't I we we haven't really looked this up but when he says that that that used uh Lightnings are really cheap right now I mean how much was our test truck like like $80,000 something that above $80,000 how how cheap are they you know I mean Ford has lower the price on new ones they they've made some significant price drops I can't I can't tell you the the amount off top but starting February March this year they were they they dropped the price on new ones um you know the issue you're looking at now is he said you know his his quote in the question was that they're they're really cheap used and which is fine but this would be a vehicle I'd say okay but you're going to want want an extended warranty you're going to want a manufactur back ex back extended warranty because you don't want to be replacing battery I mean you your powert train components are covered by a different warranty but you don't want weird things if the charge port maybe isn't covered the same way you know that's going to be an out of pocket you don't want to be stranded but you also don't want the issue with incar electronics software updates stuff like that that may not be covered under the new Under the new car warranty or when the new car warranty runs out so this is a vehicle that I would say is one that you would want to do and it's going to set that cheap price because you're going to be adding on a warranty right um and to your both your points you know Towing I mean we we did our rivan uh R1 uh T and we did the Ford F-150 Lightning and towing test and they significantly drop mileage the minute you you just hook the trailer up it's already telling you nope you know you're you're getting half or whatever just once it knows you have a trailer yeah it's it's it's a big risk and they're going to be first and second year models that are going to be these super cheap ones and as our data with every vehicle from Toyota to Alpha Romeo whatever it is you know Land Rover to Honda the first year always has lower reliability than its predecessor and now you're talking first year of a brand new brand new technology I would I would run and and one thing that we haven't even touched on John's from Indianapolis it gets cold in Indianapolis you're your battery range is going to significantly drop when it gets cold in the winter right so I I I think you know my take on this is is is John from Indianapolis if you want an EV consider like a regular EV kind of a car and if you want a pickup truck you need to get a an internal combustion engine for a truck there there are a lot of used pickup trucks in America and yeah you know I I would I would go there first yeah so I do Wonder though if one of the reasons why he's interested in the light is for blue Cruise which is for's hands-free LCA and ACC system so I could see that being a little bit enticing but as you said there are other EVS that do I mean Ford has other EVs and there are other um manufacturers like Hyundai that have EVS that have Lane centering and adaptive cruise control not hands-free but still high performers in in terms of Lane entering and adaptive cruise control um great question great answer guys but that will bring us to the conclusion of this podcast which was of course produced by super producer Dave Abrams expertly eded by Andrew I still play hockey Biz and of course Anatoli the great shumsky uh as always check the show notes for more information on the vehicles and topics that we discussed just a reminder keep your questions coming to talking cars at icloud.com and get a groovy t-shirt uh thanks so much for tuning in we'll see you next time\n"