The Car Rental Conundrum: A Conversation with Consumer Reports

There's no such thing as a free car test drive, or so we thought until we realized that most manufacturers lend cars to publications like us to ensure that they have a representative vehicle for testing. We use the term "rented" because it implies that the car is being lent to us without any expectation of purchase. However, this raises an interesting question - what's the better way to present it? Is it fair to say that we're simply using manufacturer cars, or is there a more accurate way to describe our relationship with these vehicles?

According to Consumer Reports, they don't rely on anything handed to them from manufacturers. Instead, they purchase the car they want to test because they want to make sure they have a representative vehicle. This approach allows them to ensure that they're not relying on any prototype or pre-production model, but rather a production-ready car that accurately represents the final product. By purchasing the car, they also avoid any potential issues with the manufacturer's warranty or any modifications made to the vehicle.

So why do most publications use the term "rented" when describing their relationship with manufacturer cars? Consumer Reports believes that this terminology can be misleading, as it implies that the car is being lent to them without any expectation of purchase. In reality, they're simply using a car that they've purchased because it meets their testing needs. This approach allows them to provide accurate and unbiased reviews of the vehicle, while also avoiding any potential conflicts with the manufacturer.

To illustrate this point, Consumer Reports shared an anecdote about how they acquired a 2020 Lincoln Continental for testing. The first car they received was not ready for delivery, and the dealer refused to give it to them. Instead, they told Consumer Reports that they couldn't deliver the car because Ford had instructed them not to give any cars away until the last minute. This raised some concerns with Consumer Reports, as they didn't want a car that had been doctored or modified in any way.

The second Continental they received was purchased by an employee of Consumer Reports who traveled to Massachusetts to buy it. However, on the way back, the car overheated and became stranded. Ford eventually confirmed that the issue was with the coolant hose not being clamped properly, which caused the car to leak coolant and lose power. In this case, Ford agreed to buy the car back from Consumer Reports, ensuring that they wouldn't be using a potentially unreliable vehicle for testing.

The third Lincoln Continental is currently in use by Consumer Reports, but its reliability was put to the test on their maiden voyage. According to reports, the car didn't make it to their facility without breaking down - an isolated incident that raises questions about the manufacturer's quality control processes. Ford apologized for the inconvenience and assured Consumer Reports that this was an isolated case, not a trend.

In conclusion, while the term "rented" might seem convenient, it can be misleading when describing the relationship between publications and manufacturers. By purchasing cars instead of relying on loans or rentals, Consumer Reports ensures that they're getting a representative vehicle for testing that accurately represents the final product.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhi talking cars fans want to join us for an episode of the podcast that we are going to record at the University of Michigan on January 7 2017 email me a short note by December 20th - talking cars at consumer dot-org based on the responses we get will select a limited number of people to attend sorry but you're going to have to pay your own way for travel as always thank you for watching and we hope we get to meet you soon everybody welcome to talking cars with Consumer Reports I'm Tom mutlar i'm gabe Shannara and I'm Jake Fisher on this episode we're going to talk about two sedans that basically redefine their brands here in the United States we're going to talk about the Lincoln Continental we're going to talk about the Alfa Romeo Giulia but first the Continental Jake it's been like forever since Lincoln has had a true flagship yeah sure I mean Lincoln has been kind of I'd call them overgrown Fords but they're not really overgrown for is there just like forward with different styling yeah the MKS is not a convincing right and I mean the MKZ I mean is they're they're not bad I mean it drives ease okay MKC certain certain certainly I mean you look at what you know Ford is not much fusion I mean it drives really nice and so does the MKZ but this is really a big car this is a flagship this is a big luxury car and I mean I just I was driving it last night I'm like this thing is quiet this is roomy it drives nice the steering is nice the interior pieces are really nice I mean you know I mean looking this of your you know they were big and they were comfy and they were plush but they didn't drive nice they didn't have that interior quality that that we see here yeah I mean like town cars you know they they were the top of the Lincoln lineup for a while but there was nothing really refined about town cars at the end right so yeah Jake's absolutely right I mean this is the first Lincoln that doesn't have a Ford parallel in the lineup not a direct parallel I mean of course it's based on the fusion platform but that's a great platform to base just about everything on right and yeah the car is really comes across I mean it has a presence you look at it has a size it has it looks it comes across very flagship II and yeah I mean does everything it needs to do very well it's quiet right comfortably through me I think it's a lot of people are going to be happy with I mean with the 2.7 turbo it's got the grunts of God I mean that engineer effortless that engine can pull around a 7,000 pound trailer with an f-150 it's going to be okay with the Continental sure you know oh but I miss the the old spare tire in the back though really yeah no no no you don't uh you know driving this car I thought if I was a character on Goodfellas if I was a made man this would be the modern day car that I would drive that is what this car is it harkens back to the days of the Godfather and Goodfellas and Billy Joel song lyrics where you know big American sedans ruled you know Chrysler Imperial it's not a Cadillac Akaka Kirk was well done no no it's not you know it goes back to traditional American luxury and there have been so many years where traditional American luxury hasn't existed anymore because you know look we're Cadillacs gone Cadillac is more Bavarian than BMWs this is a traditional American car but yeah I mean it's not a sloppy road going couch it's well me I think an obvious comparison is the Cadillac ct-6 so it's 86 is a big car with presence but also they worked out all the other stuff so I mean they did this with this this content out then they did it with CTU six two then you get that large car presence that huge trunk where you could put things in but it also drives really good I mean this thing is something where you could hop out of a BMW or Mercedes Benz and and and feel at home and the interior quality is there so I mean it's really kind of like flexing the muscles of the domestics saying hey we could do - stuff - I don't know I drove the Continental a couple nights ago then I drove the ct-6 I drove them back to back they do feel very different very I mean the CT said listen of all the cars we have here in fact almost of anything I could possibly get the CT six is what I would pick to drive across country I adore that car it is fun it is comfortable it is luxurious this is competent but it's more dialed back it's more relaxed more relaxed yeah definitely more likes but I will say I don't think you should compare the Lincoln and the Cadillac really directly I mean there are other players I why not you can of course you can but I'm telling you not theirs I mean they're about relaxed traditional American I mean you look at the Hyundai Genesis for instance or the G 90 these cars cars are really targeting that kind of that kind of a place in the marketplace for a relaxed traditional American luxury without any like aspirations without like posting about all we do the Nurburgring in like eight eight minutes seven seconds you know yeah so that's a you can't ignore these guys I mean there are new players but you know they they should be paying attention to them well so I mean the content it's all I mean certainly the Cadillac is you know definitely tries to be more sporty and more you know all that but does it really give up anything so the ct6 is kind of like you know it's still quiet and still rides really well well and certainly there's a little bit more relaxed than that but in terms of like the steering and the capability you know I still think it's more of that Cadillac than it is like say Alexis like someone come from a Lexus or even rx or ES I mean it's very much all about being removed and isolated right and while this has that quietness you know the steering is pretty darn good right even the g90 the Genesis g90 the steering's not - the quality of this continental yeah I mean it's not a it's not a handling kind of car as a cushy cruiser in very much in the traditional American kind of way and M it remains to be seen you know really how many customers are there to really aspire for that kind of thing no definitely now there's a lot of there's a lot of things that are done very well in this continental I mean the interior is very nice thank goodness it's sink three nowadays instead of my Lincoln tile though I do have a problem with with the controls and it's the shifter yeah so mmm so so in this car the shifter is there it's like they took away the presets and they relabeled them the PRNDL right so I mean it sort of preset sirs Park reverse I mean it's fine trying to do something different if it works but what really gets me is when you take away something and replace it with the shifter we see this all the time right so this is the presets I mean it really like these are the presets for the thing and that's the shifter we have other cars where they remove the the turn signal and as the shifter they'd remove the the WIPO motion it's the shifter or the radio knob and that's only the shifter I mean come on I mean to give it a little bit of credit at least compared to like the MKZ and I see they've given you more space between the touchscreen and the row button so but when you brace against this decide to use the screen but yeah you have to turn over this yeah it's route I mean you look at it's almost a logical group like here's the radio and here's the controls for the radio and oh no those aren't the control sorry yeah what do you think of the door handles they're pretty they are pretty I mean clearly that is something that's like wow let's do something that as soon as you get to the car it's a little bit different and it looks interesting it looks like part of the molding and inside it's like a Corvette you know you've got the push buttons the doors any emergency where I'm not I'm not crazy but what we have to there it it's it's like they're trying to do something to be different and we see this from a lot of automakers it's not any better it doesn't work any better than a normal door handle in fact for the you know getting out you know it's great every time you have somebody in your car and if I explained it to Clutton especially at night it's like oh no that little light thing then I press that the thing you can't read unless you get your head way down I mean it doesn't make sense but they're trying to be different the seats are a little weird too they've got these like wings yeah they look very expensive but look weird but they actually work you think yeah I found him a bit narrow I stood I was pretty happy and then the seat yeah I found it a bit narrow I am I mean I was though I was a little struck by how high the cowl is you're very surrounded with it's a generative car all partitions are I mean this isn't a chip off of the block it's the whole block there's a lot I am frustrated that you're spending over this cars 56,000 dollars we couldn't find one with the 2.7 in all-wheel drive and the safety you know forward collision warning automatic emergency braking tech package it's frustrating to me that this stuff is still optional it this day when it's standard on a Corolla and mrs. Ford yeah chip it's ridiculous you know certainly we could have got if we wound up getting the higher engine and the performance this or whatever but if that's not regular like you said yeah the true seven is plenty you don't need but it's the typical engine for this car but if you go and you write like I said if you bought a coral or a rav4 or a you know you're going to get the safety stuff standard you're going to get automatic emergency braking and a brand new flagship to make it optional and I hope going forward though they'll they'll put them in more of a bottle line I mean we go out we buy the very first one so we don't have we don't we look at the market right now but yeah I mean the only way we could have gotten that basic safety stuff that almost everyone is getting now wow we would have to wind up with a powertrain with yeah with a three liter 400 horsepower with the so some Sochi so if you care about safety safety get the fastest you got to get the the super big horsepower engine it doesn't make sense yep next we're gonna talk about the Alfa Romeo Giulia now we're talking that's right now we're talking um well I mean people been talking about alpha coming back to America for about 15 forever I mean it's almost as long as they tease the Pontiac Solstice you know every show for five years salsa salsa and then but alpha is finally back I mean they had the 4c which was kind of a go-kart that not many people fall but now there's a mass-market sedan right so the 4c is a very esoteric but with the Julia they are aiming right at the heart of the sport sedan market right at the end wmw 3-series Audi a4 Mercedes c-class and the other shoe is going to be the SUV at Estelle vo which is probably going to outsell to Julia about ten to one you know did is the world asking for an Alfa Romeo SUV the world's but asking for SUVs yes and anyone who was pressing about say anything goes to sell cars has a seminarian has a son a TV but back to Julia the back to Julia okay cheer me up no the car I mean first of all it looks dynamite it it drives I mean it really is fun to drive steering's very very very ring is is quick without being nervous the cars is tied down it's just puts a smile on your face the sound is great and if you dial into the right modes yeah they're one of the few companies that actually when you change the modes in a car it really feels something that got their DNA and it works surprisingly well it works beautifully your thoughts on the Alpha yeah I mean it's beautiful it's been a long time since we've seen a real alpha here and even back before when alpha was here they had with a roadster I mean the 164 Way where the 164 was an oddball but but but I mean they have been I mean I one point I was living in Europe and I was driving 156 you know and this was like a more contemporary alpha and there was a fabulous car I mean was a really really enjoyable to drive car and um yeah I think we're seeing that again so so the the new Giulia it is a very enjoyable car to drive the issue for it is it is a crowded market ah BMW 3-series is very good and has a big following the Audi a4 is a fantastic car and reliable too and reliable what's because they're hypo an alpha and not sure well obviously we don't have a lot of you know alphas here but I mean again it's from Fiat Chrysler I mean this is a company that has struggled to make reliable yeah yeah so I mean sure maybe it's it's a little bit different or maybe the steering is a little bit better than the BMW 3-series but when you have a car with questionable reliability I mean again again don't get me wrong we don't have data for those cars just coming out but the reputation and the data that we do have for anything from Fiat Chrysler and what we know about a new vehicle to market and all of the opportunities to have something go wrong wow it's really a risky purchase for you know maybe a little bit more style maybe a little bit you know nicer steering yeah I mean it's anyone's guess if it's gonna hold up together but you know this some market background tow is I mean leasing is very popular in a segment then if you're someone who leases these cars and you're wrote a BMW Audi Mercedes so for me just to be a little different you might be tempted to go with an alpha and and you know it's it's pretty enjoyable me but also to just expand on what you Jake said it's the first alpha that's a real alpha trying to like get back to the glory days legit rear-wheel drive alpha not front-wheel drive not something that's based on the Fiat platform that's more plebeian right now it is a bit smaller then you don't get the interior space of a 3-series you know it's it's a you know it's it is trying very hard to be a close coupled sporty sedan I mean it succeeds at that very well yeah it we'll see if we'll see if the marketplace place accepts it as it certainly has been a long time in waiting so now we're going to get to some questions and comments you know I always wonder when people ask us for car advice do they actually buy anything or do they follow our advice while we have the we have an answer hello from our last show last night number someone asked about buying a roadster you know with modern safety equipment oh the LA San Francisco yeah yeah I was gonna yeah so we found out what he bought Jim Lee writes I bought a 2012 Miata folding hardtop for now a 20 grand to hold me over it's not the most comfortable but a blast the drive in hi smiles for gown hopefully was someone something will come up soon before my back starts hurting with Ford collision and autonomous braking in a roadster or convertible oh so you're going to have fun but yeah I mean like we said it the marketplace is hard there aren't many roadsters or convertibles that are affordable that have all the safety equipment next we had some comments about the talking about the Subaru Impreza that jazz guy writes I think see are still fails to understand there are some people for whom a fully loaded vehicle make like a $29,000 and present makes sense if you keep your car a long time more than five or six years extras that add to the comfort and usability of the vehicle can make perfect sense I think what he was going at was that I said a $29,000 and present was a lot of money mm-hmm and it is a lot of money III don't I don't disagree well I mean like I mean it's true I mean you look at those that segment and they get gatok pricey I mean the other thing that we talk about too is if you're looking at a luxury vehicle getting a more pedestrian car with the options you're getting a lot of that luxury too so I mean the way he's got himself a you know a budget car that has the luxury wants right and that's there's nothing wrong with that no well let's acknowledge that for a lot of people price per square footage of a car is a thing it turned but I mean there are people that for them the actual the compact footprint of a car is a value in its own right and they're willing to pay for that ya know I was thinking about that a Thanksgiving week I spent in Europe in Britain with my in-laws where there was not Thanksgiving but all the same we drove around thankful anyway yeah we were thankful we drove around in my father-in-law's Volkswagen Golf for adults and our luggage and you know we all fit and it's easy to park and the car feels mature and grownup you know I mean I actually can understand young getting a loaded and present that would be a sort of car or a loaded golf which isn't as reliable I mean that would be the sort of car I personally would buy but I don't have kids you know I have this sort of Eurocentric background I am I can understand it but there's a reason why loaded versions of these cars only 5 or 10% of their model mix but again you're talking about four adults in a car how often how often does anyone drive that way I mean I do have kids you know what they're fine in the back of a golf they're fine in the back my wife's got a Prius or spine in the back there I mean how much room do they really need right and they're fine they're closer to talk to it smell good he's right my kids were pretty happy in the back of the seat e6 Thanksgiving weekend I walk it life better be happy in the bag it was last night I was in the Continental with the boys and you know I'm like screaming at them like can you hear me back there no like no I thought the car was quiet speaking the Impreza that when we did that episode we were talking about we have a pair of press cars and we talking about the term rented and someone who asks us to explain that Colin he says you keep saying rented when referring to the press cars why do you rent them aren't they meant to be for you to test so yes so I guess I would like to ask the audience is there a better term they would use and here's the story where they're not our vehicles all the cars that we test we purchase because we want to make sure that we have a representative car we don't rely on anything that's handed to us from the manufacturers we use the term rented because they lend us the car we pay for that use that's why we put rented renting of course means that you know we're not going to eve us to get the to get the prototype suppressor or whatever it is yeah a pre-production Alfa Romeo because yeah you can't really do that so yeah I mean I there's got to be a better way of presenting it there their manufacturer cars yeah and we're not getting them upgrade yeah that's a difference most publications are not the New York Times pay something but otherwise most publications don't pay anything for press cars yeah well you want to be in a position where we don't get any freebies from the manufacturers but we still want to have some content on cars before we actually buy them and test them for a formal load and it comes up in our conversation very often because we want to make one the point that this is a not a purchased car so everything with a little bit of a grain of salt you know we're not going to that's why you're not going to see numbers on these these these on the borrowed cars that's right that's why we're not running 0 to 60 numbers right aching we're not making definitive scores on noise right or things right that so so good there's other things we learn by buying our own test cars - this is our third Lincoln Continental yes explain that oh my goodness so yeah so we wanted to get the first Kalitta Continental we could find and and you know I mean gave you run that program you you scour make sure that we get these cars go soon which is terrific the problem with this so okay so the person who designed to buy the Continental got to the dealer and they felt for some really some reason the car wasn't ready the dealer did yes the dealer did and didn't want to deliver it and so that deal was well held at that point we were already not non-anonymous that we were consumer reports we like to buy the cars completely so we got in this situation where so when we purchased the car we don't tell them who we are but we got in a situation they knew where we were we're buried to pick it up there's like hold on wait we want to fix this and that and that's not quite right and we and you made the right call and you were like right now cover's blown okay we're going on the day they would have done that with any other customer but we were concerned that it was us and we don't want a car that's been doctored or anything special happened to it so that brings us the Continental number two and then we went out of state so okay so the person who was assigned to buy that went to Massachusetts buy her a car there and on the way back it overheated and he got stranded and so Ford says that hose coolant hose wasn't clamped right and car leaked coolant and that's how it lost a cool got overheated and the car did it's right thing it gave the right warnings it went into a limp home mode nevertheless there was a huge inconvenience we also made a decision then okay I mean just on the off chance of some damage to the car we don't want that car to be our official test score right so the dealer agreed to buy it back from us and they came and and took it back so here we go Lincoln well number three on ental number three right so I mean that was an interesting case because I mean I think that was the first time ever that the car didn't make it to our facility to the track without breaking down I mean not to say this is going to be an unreliable car I don't know that this is probably one of the very first cars owes off the line we're we're certainly not influence our reliability rating we're doing this from all the data that we get but it does show that Wow if you want to be the very first one in your block to get a car and maybe wait a month yeah let them figure out I put the the the hoses on better yeah that's right let someone else work out all the bugs actually no we also reached out the Ford they apologized for the inconvenience they said the car responded the way it was supposed to given the situation and they said it was an isolated case and not a trend yeah that is going to wrap it up for this episode of talking cars as always we thank you for listening and watching we'll see you again next timehi talking cars fans want to join us for an episode of the podcast that we are going to record at the University of Michigan on January 7 2017 email me a short note by December 20th - talking cars at consumer dot-org based on the responses we get will select a limited number of people to attend sorry but you're going to have to pay your own way for travel as always thank you for watching and we hope we get to meet you soon everybody welcome to talking cars with Consumer Reports I'm Tom mutlar i'm gabe Shannara and I'm Jake Fisher on this episode we're going to talk about two sedans that basically redefine their brands here in the United States we're going to talk about the Lincoln Continental we're going to talk about the Alfa Romeo Giulia but first the Continental Jake it's been like forever since Lincoln has had a true flagship yeah sure I mean Lincoln has been kind of I'd call them overgrown Fords but they're not really overgrown for is there just like forward with different styling yeah the MKS is not a convincing right and I mean the MKZ I mean is they're they're not bad I mean it drives ease okay MKC certain certain certainly I mean you look at what you know Ford is not much fusion I mean it drives really nice and so does the MKZ but this is really a big car this is a flagship this is a big luxury car and I mean I just I was driving it last night I'm like this thing is quiet this is roomy it drives nice the steering is nice the interior pieces are really nice I mean you know I mean looking this of your you know they were big and they were comfy and they were plush but they didn't drive nice they didn't have that interior quality that that we see here yeah I mean like town cars you know they they were the top of the Lincoln lineup for a while but there was nothing really refined about town cars at the end right so yeah Jake's absolutely right I mean this is the first Lincoln that doesn't have a Ford parallel in the lineup not a direct parallel I mean of course it's based on the fusion platform but that's a great platform to base just about everything on right and yeah the car is really comes across I mean it has a presence you look at it has a size it has it looks it comes across very flagship II and yeah I mean does everything it needs to do very well it's quiet right comfortably through me I think it's a lot of people are going to be happy with I mean with the 2.7 turbo it's got the grunts of God I mean that engineer effortless that engine can pull around a 7,000 pound trailer with an f-150 it's going to be okay with the Continental sure you know oh but I miss the the old spare tire in the back though really yeah no no no you don't uh you know driving this car I thought if I was a character on Goodfellas if I was a made man this would be the modern day car that I would drive that is what this car is it harkens back to the days of the Godfather and Goodfellas and Billy Joel song lyrics where you know big American sedans ruled you know Chrysler Imperial it's not a Cadillac Akaka Kirk was well done no no it's not you know it goes back to traditional American luxury and there have been so many years where traditional American luxury hasn't existed anymore because you know look we're Cadillacs gone Cadillac is more Bavarian than BMWs this is a traditional American car but yeah I mean it's not a sloppy road going couch it's well me I think an obvious comparison is the Cadillac ct-6 so it's 86 is a big car with presence but also they worked out all the other stuff so I mean they did this with this this content out then they did it with CTU six two then you get that large car presence that huge trunk where you could put things in but it also drives really good I mean this thing is something where you could hop out of a BMW or Mercedes Benz and and and feel at home and the interior quality is there so I mean it's really kind of like flexing the muscles of the domestics saying hey we could do - stuff - I don't know I drove the Continental a couple nights ago then I drove the ct-6 I drove them back to back they do feel very different very I mean the CT said listen of all the cars we have here in fact almost of anything I could possibly get the CT six is what I would pick to drive across country I adore that car it is fun it is comfortable it is luxurious this is competent but it's more dialed back it's more relaxed more relaxed yeah definitely more likes but I will say I don't think you should compare the Lincoln and the Cadillac really directly I mean there are other players I why not you can of course you can but I'm telling you not theirs I mean they're about relaxed traditional American I mean you look at the Hyundai Genesis for instance or the G 90 these cars cars are really targeting that kind of that kind of a place in the marketplace for a relaxed traditional American luxury without any like aspirations without like posting about all we do the Nurburgring in like eight eight minutes seven seconds you know yeah so that's a you can't ignore these guys I mean there are new players but you know they they should be paying attention to them well so I mean the content it's all I mean certainly the Cadillac is you know definitely tries to be more sporty and more you know all that but does it really give up anything so the ct6 is kind of like you know it's still quiet and still rides really well well and certainly there's a little bit more relaxed than that but in terms of like the steering and the capability you know I still think it's more of that Cadillac than it is like say Alexis like someone come from a Lexus or even rx or ES I mean it's very much all about being removed and isolated right and while this has that quietness you know the steering is pretty darn good right even the g90 the Genesis g90 the steering's not - the quality of this continental yeah I mean it's not a it's not a handling kind of car as a cushy cruiser in very much in the traditional American kind of way and M it remains to be seen you know really how many customers are there to really aspire for that kind of thing no definitely now there's a lot of there's a lot of things that are done very well in this continental I mean the interior is very nice thank goodness it's sink three nowadays instead of my Lincoln tile though I do have a problem with with the controls and it's the shifter yeah so mmm so so in this car the shifter is there it's like they took away the presets and they relabeled them the PRNDL right so I mean it sort of preset sirs Park reverse I mean it's fine trying to do something different if it works but what really gets me is when you take away something and replace it with the shifter we see this all the time right so this is the presets I mean it really like these are the presets for the thing and that's the shifter we have other cars where they remove the the turn signal and as the shifter they'd remove the the WIPO motion it's the shifter or the radio knob and that's only the shifter I mean come on I mean to give it a little bit of credit at least compared to like the MKZ and I see they've given you more space between the touchscreen and the row button so but when you brace against this decide to use the screen but yeah you have to turn over this yeah it's route I mean you look at it's almost a logical group like here's the radio and here's the controls for the radio and oh no those aren't the control sorry yeah what do you think of the door handles they're pretty they are pretty I mean clearly that is something that's like wow let's do something that as soon as you get to the car it's a little bit different and it looks interesting it looks like part of the molding and inside it's like a Corvette you know you've got the push buttons the doors any emergency where I'm not I'm not crazy but what we have to there it it's it's like they're trying to do something to be different and we see this from a lot of automakers it's not any better it doesn't work any better than a normal door handle in fact for the you know getting out you know it's great every time you have somebody in your car and if I explained it to Clutton especially at night it's like oh no that little light thing then I press that the thing you can't read unless you get your head way down I mean it doesn't make sense but they're trying to be different the seats are a little weird too they've got these like wings yeah they look very expensive but look weird but they actually work you think yeah I found him a bit narrow I stood I was pretty happy and then the seat yeah I found it a bit narrow I am I mean I was though I was a little struck by how high the cowl is you're very surrounded with it's a generative car all partitions are I mean this isn't a chip off of the block it's the whole block there's a lot I am frustrated that you're spending over this cars 56,000 dollars we couldn't find one with the 2.7 in all-wheel drive and the safety you know forward collision warning automatic emergency braking tech package it's frustrating to me that this stuff is still optional it this day when it's standard on a Corolla and mrs. Ford yeah chip it's ridiculous you know certainly we could have got if we wound up getting the higher engine and the performance this or whatever but if that's not regular like you said yeah the true seven is plenty you don't need but it's the typical engine for this car but if you go and you write like I said if you bought a coral or a rav4 or a you know you're going to get the safety stuff standard you're going to get automatic emergency braking and a brand new flagship to make it optional and I hope going forward though they'll they'll put them in more of a bottle line I mean we go out we buy the very first one so we don't have we don't we look at the market right now but yeah I mean the only way we could have gotten that basic safety stuff that almost everyone is getting now wow we would have to wind up with a powertrain with yeah with a three liter 400 horsepower with the so some Sochi so if you care about safety safety get the fastest you got to get the the super big horsepower engine it doesn't make sense yep next we're gonna talk about the Alfa Romeo Giulia now we're talking that's right now we're talking um well I mean people been talking about alpha coming back to America for about 15 forever I mean it's almost as long as they tease the Pontiac Solstice you know every show for five years salsa salsa and then but alpha is finally back I mean they had the 4c which was kind of a go-kart that not many people fall but now there's a mass-market sedan right so the 4c is a very esoteric but with the Julia they are aiming right at the heart of the sport sedan market right at the end wmw 3-series Audi a4 Mercedes c-class and the other shoe is going to be the SUV at Estelle vo which is probably going to outsell to Julia about ten to one you know did is the world asking for an Alfa Romeo SUV the world's but asking for SUVs yes and anyone who was pressing about say anything goes to sell cars has a seminarian has a son a TV but back to Julia the back to Julia okay cheer me up no the car I mean first of all it looks dynamite it it drives I mean it really is fun to drive steering's very very very ring is is quick without being nervous the cars is tied down it's just puts a smile on your face the sound is great and if you dial into the right modes yeah they're one of the few companies that actually when you change the modes in a car it really feels something that got their DNA and it works surprisingly well it works beautifully your thoughts on the Alpha yeah I mean it's beautiful it's been a long time since we've seen a real alpha here and even back before when alpha was here they had with a roadster I mean the 164 Way where the 164 was an oddball but but but I mean they have been I mean I one point I was living in Europe and I was driving 156 you know and this was like a more contemporary alpha and there was a fabulous car I mean was a really really enjoyable to drive car and um yeah I think we're seeing that again so so the the new Giulia it is a very enjoyable car to drive the issue for it is it is a crowded market ah BMW 3-series is very good and has a big following the Audi a4 is a fantastic car and reliable too and reliable what's because they're hypo an alpha and not sure well obviously we don't have a lot of you know alphas here but I mean again it's from Fiat Chrysler I mean this is a company that has struggled to make reliable yeah yeah so I mean sure maybe it's it's a little bit different or maybe the steering is a little bit better than the BMW 3-series but when you have a car with questionable reliability I mean again again don't get me wrong we don't have data for those cars just coming out but the reputation and the data that we do have for anything from Fiat Chrysler and what we know about a new vehicle to market and all of the opportunities to have something go wrong wow it's really a risky purchase for you know maybe a little bit more style maybe a little bit you know nicer steering yeah I mean it's anyone's guess if it's gonna hold up together but you know this some market background tow is I mean leasing is very popular in a segment then if you're someone who leases these cars and you're wrote a BMW Audi Mercedes so for me just to be a little different you might be tempted to go with an alpha and and you know it's it's pretty enjoyable me but also to just expand on what you Jake said it's the first alpha that's a real alpha trying to like get back to the glory days legit rear-wheel drive alpha not front-wheel drive not something that's based on the Fiat platform that's more plebeian right now it is a bit smaller then you don't get the interior space of a 3-series you know it's it's a you know it's it is trying very hard to be a close coupled sporty sedan I mean it succeeds at that very well yeah it we'll see if we'll see if the marketplace place accepts it as it certainly has been a long time in waiting so now we're going to get to some questions and comments you know I always wonder when people ask us for car advice do they actually buy anything or do they follow our advice while we have the we have an answer hello from our last show last night number someone asked about buying a roadster you know with modern safety equipment oh the LA San Francisco yeah yeah I was gonna yeah so we found out what he bought Jim Lee writes I bought a 2012 Miata folding hardtop for now a 20 grand to hold me over it's not the most comfortable but a blast the drive in hi smiles for gown hopefully was someone something will come up soon before my back starts hurting with Ford collision and autonomous braking in a roadster or convertible oh so you're going to have fun but yeah I mean like we said it the marketplace is hard there aren't many roadsters or convertibles that are affordable that have all the safety equipment next we had some comments about the talking about the Subaru Impreza that jazz guy writes I think see are still fails to understand there are some people for whom a fully loaded vehicle make like a $29,000 and present makes sense if you keep your car a long time more than five or six years extras that add to the comfort and usability of the vehicle can make perfect sense I think what he was going at was that I said a $29,000 and present was a lot of money mm-hmm and it is a lot of money III don't I don't disagree well I mean like I mean it's true I mean you look at those that segment and they get gatok pricey I mean the other thing that we talk about too is if you're looking at a luxury vehicle getting a more pedestrian car with the options you're getting a lot of that luxury too so I mean the way he's got himself a you know a budget car that has the luxury wants right and that's there's nothing wrong with that no well let's acknowledge that for a lot of people price per square footage of a car is a thing it turned but I mean there are people that for them the actual the compact footprint of a car is a value in its own right and they're willing to pay for that ya know I was thinking about that a Thanksgiving week I spent in Europe in Britain with my in-laws where there was not Thanksgiving but all the same we drove around thankful anyway yeah we were thankful we drove around in my father-in-law's Volkswagen Golf for adults and our luggage and you know we all fit and it's easy to park and the car feels mature and grownup you know I mean I actually can understand young getting a loaded and present that would be a sort of car or a loaded golf which isn't as reliable I mean that would be the sort of car I personally would buy but I don't have kids you know I have this sort of Eurocentric background I am I can understand it but there's a reason why loaded versions of these cars only 5 or 10% of their model mix but again you're talking about four adults in a car how often how often does anyone drive that way I mean I do have kids you know what they're fine in the back of a golf they're fine in the back my wife's got a Prius or spine in the back there I mean how much room do they really need right and they're fine they're closer to talk to it smell good he's right my kids were pretty happy in the back of the seat e6 Thanksgiving weekend I walk it life better be happy in the bag it was last night I was in the Continental with the boys and you know I'm like screaming at them like can you hear me back there no like no I thought the car was quiet speaking the Impreza that when we did that episode we were talking about we have a pair of press cars and we talking about the term rented and someone who asks us to explain that Colin he says you keep saying rented when referring to the press cars why do you rent them aren't they meant to be for you to test so yes so I guess I would like to ask the audience is there a better term they would use and here's the story where they're not our vehicles all the cars that we test we purchase because we want to make sure that we have a representative car we don't rely on anything that's handed to us from the manufacturers we use the term rented because they lend us the car we pay for that use that's why we put rented renting of course means that you know we're not going to eve us to get the to get the prototype suppressor or whatever it is yeah a pre-production Alfa Romeo because yeah you can't really do that so yeah I mean I there's got to be a better way of presenting it there their manufacturer cars yeah and we're not getting them upgrade yeah that's a difference most publications are not the New York Times pay something but otherwise most publications don't pay anything for press cars yeah well you want to be in a position where we don't get any freebies from the manufacturers but we still want to have some content on cars before we actually buy them and test them for a formal load and it comes up in our conversation very often because we want to make one the point that this is a not a purchased car so everything with a little bit of a grain of salt you know we're not going to that's why you're not going to see numbers on these these these on the borrowed cars that's right that's why we're not running 0 to 60 numbers right aching we're not making definitive scores on noise right or things right that so so good there's other things we learn by buying our own test cars - this is our third Lincoln Continental yes explain that oh my goodness so yeah so we wanted to get the first Kalitta Continental we could find and and you know I mean gave you run that program you you scour make sure that we get these cars go soon which is terrific the problem with this so okay so the person who designed to buy the Continental got to the dealer and they felt for some really some reason the car wasn't ready the dealer did yes the dealer did and didn't want to deliver it and so that deal was well held at that point we were already not non-anonymous that we were consumer reports we like to buy the cars completely so we got in this situation where so when we purchased the car we don't tell them who we are but we got in a situation they knew where we were we're buried to pick it up there's like hold on wait we want to fix this and that and that's not quite right and we and you made the right call and you were like right now cover's blown okay we're going on the day they would have done that with any other customer but we were concerned that it was us and we don't want a car that's been doctored or anything special happened to it so that brings us the Continental number two and then we went out of state so okay so the person who was assigned to buy that went to Massachusetts buy her a car there and on the way back it overheated and he got stranded and so Ford says that hose coolant hose wasn't clamped right and car leaked coolant and that's how it lost a cool got overheated and the car did it's right thing it gave the right warnings it went into a limp home mode nevertheless there was a huge inconvenience we also made a decision then okay I mean just on the off chance of some damage to the car we don't want that car to be our official test score right so the dealer agreed to buy it back from us and they came and and took it back so here we go Lincoln well number three on ental number three right so I mean that was an interesting case because I mean I think that was the first time ever that the car didn't make it to our facility to the track without breaking down I mean not to say this is going to be an unreliable car I don't know that this is probably one of the very first cars owes off the line we're we're certainly not influence our reliability rating we're doing this from all the data that we get but it does show that Wow if you want to be the very first one in your block to get a car and maybe wait a month yeah let them figure out I put the the the hoses on better yeah that's right let someone else work out all the bugs actually no we also reached out the Ford they apologized for the inconvenience they said the car responded the way it was supposed to given the situation and they said it was an isolated case and not a trend yeah that is going to wrap it up for this episode of talking cars as always we thank you for listening and watching we'll see you again next time\n"