We are live on the floor of the LA Auto Show talking about cars, California, and how what happens here affects the rest of the country and the rest of the world. Next, on Talking Cars.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Welcome to talkingcars. I'm Keith Barry. I'm Jake Fisher. I'm Jon Linkov. I'm David Friedman. Wait, you're who? David Friedman. David Friedman. So normally, frequent viewers will notice there's usually three of us. There's a fourth here. David, why don't you introduce yourself a little more? Tell us tell us about yourself. Sure, happy to. I'm the interloper here. It's great to be here on this fantastic podcast. I'm our Vice President for Advocacy at Consumer Reports. I'm also an engineer. I've spent some time in the auto safety world, in the energy world. And I mean, we'd love to hear from you folks - the cars you've owned, the cars you've loved, the ways that you've modified your own driving habits, the ways that you've made choices based on where we are.

I think someone in the audience earlier - were you talking to someone who had a fuel cell vehicle? I was talking to a Todd out here. Yeah, so we were talking a little bit. But I mean, OK, soon. The East Coast, we tested the Toyota Mirai fuel cell vehicle. And the Nexo, too, and a few others. We're the only ones, right? I mean, nobody... and actually, do we got a microphone now for Todd? Hi, my name's Todd. I'm from Long Beach here in California. We have a 2017 Honda Clarity fuel cell, and I just hit 60,000 miles. And we acquired it in April of 2017.

My drive to work and back can vary from 40 miles each way to 56 miles, depending on traffic here in California. One of the great things about the fuel cell like the EV, it gives us access to the carpool lane. And that's why my drive can sometimes maybe be 56 miles, but I'll save 20 minutes off my driver than going the most direct route. When I first got the vehicle back in 2017, there weren't that many so fueling up was actually a lot easier than it's become recently with so many fuel cells coming out, especially the Toyota Mirai.

That's made fueling up a little bit more challenging, especially for some one like myself who basically fills up every two or three days. So it seems like the success of fuel cell vehicles has almost been the problem, but it makes it even harder to get some of the hydrogen stations. Has anyone else here ever owned a fuel cell vehicle? What about an electric vehicle? Anyone own an electric vehicle?

But it's what it's more than the percentage of the overall market, I think. How about this? Would anyone consider an electric car the next car? I mean, I guess it's comparing now to really where the future is. And certainly here, I think it's a lot more people who are considering that than what we see across the country.

Jon, I know you were here at the show all week. And we'd been seeing the new options that will be available to you folks who want something that plugs in. I mean, a fuel cell. I mean, the Mirai. They've shown the Prius Prime - I'm sorry, the RAV4 Prime. Yep. But even you hybrids. You have the new CRV Hybrid, which if anything, you're going to follow the lead of the Honda Accord Hybrid.

You're looking at probably a pretty efficient vehicle. Yeah, these are mainstream cars. Mainstream cars. These are not science experiments any longer.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enWe are live on the floorof the LA Auto Show talkingabout cars, California,and how what happenshere affects therest of the countryand the rest of the world.Next, on Talking Cars.Thank you so much.Thank you.Welcome to talkingcars.I'm Keith Barry.I'm Jake Fisher.I'm Jon Linkov.I'm David Friedman.Wait, you're who?David Friedman.David Friedman.So normally, frequentviewers will noticethere's usually three of us.There's a fourth here.David, why don't you introduceyourself a little more?Tell us tell us about yourself.Sure, happy to.I'm the interloper here.It's great to be here onthis fantastic podcast.I'm our Vice President forAdvocacy at Consumer Reports.I'm also an engineer I've spentsome time in the auto safetyworld, in the energy world.And I love cars, I have to admitit-- especially electric cars.And you worked atNITSA before this.Yes, I worked at the NationalHighway Traffic SafetyAdministration dealing withissues like the Takata airbagand the safety of EVs.I also worked at theDepartment of Energywhere we were tryingto help acceleratethe market for electricvehicles and all sortsof other clean energy.And the most importantthing about David Friedmanis that he spent a lot oftime out in the West coast.Otherwise, it would just bethree East Coasters here tryingto California-splain youCalifornia car culture.And I don't think that wouldgo over too well, right?So we are here atthe LA Auto Show.And we're here to talk--I call it ourCalifornia special.We're here to talk about whatis going on in Californiaand how it affects not justthe rest of the United States,but how it affects the world.Because car culture,everything from route66 to customs to smog tothe environmental movementto Silicon Valley and AVs.All of that is happeningin this great state.And we want to hearfrom you as well,telling us yourexperience with cars.So I mean I'm justgoing to start off.Jake, talk a little aboutthe culture here, of cars.When you think California,what do you think?So like I said, we're hereto hear from you guys.We're here to see theculture, hear from you,here what the experiencesthat you giys will have.But growing up in NewJersey, it's interesting.I was always like a car nut.And car enthusiasts kind of--there's different types of carenthusiasts around the country,and around the world,quite honestly.And my parents alwayshad Volkswagens.So my dad always had aBeatle, and they had a bus.Even as a kid,I'm in New Jersey,we're talking aboutthe Cal look bug.And it was like, OK.And there's the wholeculture around that.I think what was kindof interesting isyou look at how peoplemodify their carsor what they're into,a lot of places,it's big V8 engines andperformance, or big trucksand they're lifting them.But what's interestingabout California--That's here.And that's here yoo.But also the factthat the Volkswagen,the fuel efficient Volkswagenscould be very popular.Electric cars can be a thing.There's celebritiesdriving around,when they would drive aroundPriuses or Tesla's, or anythingthat's actually--it shows that fuel efficiencyand environmentalismcan actually co-exist withthe absolute love for cars.Yeah.No, I totally agree.It's just thinking back10 years and everyonepulling up to theOscars in a Prius,and now it's ever beenshowing up in a Tesla.That is a California--I mean you spentsome time out here.And--There's a good reason for that.There's lots of goodreasons for that.But one of the big things isjust the pollution challengesin this state.California is uniquein so many ways.Lots of good, but a fewthat are really challenging.Because of the geography andbecause of the number of carsCalifornia, as you all know,have faced serious pollutionproblems.I still remember when Ifirst came out to California.I went to graduateschool at UC Davis.I used to own amotorcycle at the time.So I'm riding cross-country,just enjoying my time,enjoying seeing thisgreat country of ours.Going the speed limitthe whole time, I'm sure.Going the speedlimit the whole time.Had a helmet.Safety first.And I remember comingover the mountains,and I look up in the sky and Isee this big nasty brown cloud.That was one of my firstintroductions to California.Beautiful-- beautifulmountains, beautiful vistas.But then this browncloud that kind ofmarred that amazing view.And I know that's whatso many people herehave had to live with.I mean, right nowwith the forest firesand the real challengesthat creates,which is also tied topollution from automobiles,ultimately, becauseof climate change.It's like we have--out here it's the best of cars.I counted like 12 ToyotaPrevia's in perfect conditionout here.Nowhere else onEarth would thosenot have rusted to pieces.But also the builtenvironment, it'sjust the promise and theproblems of the automobile.And I mean, we'd loveto hear from you folks--the cars you've owned,the cars you've loved,the ways that you've modifiedyour own driving habits,the ways that you've madechoices based on where we are.I think someone inthe audience earlier--were you talking to someonewho had a fuel cell vehicle?I was talking toa Todd out here.Yeah, so we weretalking a little bit.But I mean, OK, soon the East Coast,we tested the ToyotaMirai fuel cell vehicle.And the Nexo, too,and a few others.We're the only ones, right?I mean, nobody-- and actually,do we got a microphone nowfor Todd?Hi, my name's Todd.I'm from Long Beachhere in California.We have a 2017 HondaClarity fuel cell,and I just hit 60,000 miles.And we acquired itin April of 2017.My drive to work and back canvary from 40 miles each wayto 56 miles, depending ontraffic here in California.One of the great things aboutthe fuel cell like the EV,it gives us accessto the carpool lane.And that's why my drive cansometimes maybe be 56 miles,but I'll save 20minutes off my driverather than going themost direct route.And when I first got thevehicle back in 2017,there weren't that many.So fueling up wasactually a lot easierthan it's become recently withso many fuel cells coming out,especially the Toyota Mirai.That's made fuelingup a little bit morechallenging,especially for someonelike myself who basically fillsup every two or three days.So it seems like thesuccess of fuel cellshave almost beenthe problem, but itmakes it even harder to getsome of the hydrogen stations.Has anyone else here everowned a fuel cell vehicle?What about an electric vehicle?Anyone own an electric vehicle?But it's what it's morethan the percentageof the overall market, I think.How about this?Would anyone consider anelectric car the next car?I mean, I guessit's comparing nowto really where the future is.And certainly here, I thinkit's a lot more people whoare considering that than whatwe see across the country.And Jon, I know you werehere at the show all week.And we'd been seeingthe new options thatwill be availableto you folks whowant something that plugs in.I mean, a fuel cell.I mean, the Mirai, thenew Mirai is gorgeous.Right, so you have the Mirai.They've shown the Prius Prime--I'm sorry, the RAV4 Prime.Yep.But even you hybrids.You have the new CRVHybrid, which if anything,you're going to follow the leadof the Honda Accord Hybrid.You're looking at probablya pretty efficient vehicle.Yeah, these are mainstream cars.Mainstream cars.These are not--They're not scienceexperiments any longer.You're now lookingat the GM EV1.Wait, I got another question.did anyone here own an EV1?No?No, OK.Before they werecrashed, of course.Anyone seen an EV1?Yeah.Well, and that'sthe exact point.No longer is it, \"Ican't hold anything,\"or, \"it doesn't go anywhere inthe winter in cold weather.\"These are crossovers thateveryone wants and loves.Exactly, it's amainstream vehicle.And it doesn'tlook any different.I think it also paintsa picture of howradically things have changed.15, 16 years ago, you couldcome to the LA Auto Show,and you could not find ahybrid or electric vehicle.I was once witha group of folks,and we were so upset thatthere weren't any hybridsor EVs at the show, we actuallyheld a little protest outside.We got a bunch of folks to showup with their hybrids and EVsbecause thetechnology was there,but there werenone in this place.And now they'reall over the place.It's amazing how investmentsin innovation and Californialeadership hasreally changed that.I mean, Californiahas really put in,whether it's HOV policiesthat you talked aboutor tax breaks or companyrequirements thathave brought EVs fromall sorts of companiesall over the place.I mean, I'd be curiousabout that, too.I mean, Tesla is themost popular one,but has any one ofthose EV folks--is it a Tesla?Or does anyone herehave a car that'snot an EV, that's not a Tesla?Well, I think we weretalking about it.You just purchased one.Hi, my name is Jim Leefrom Stevenson Ranch.I own a Kia Niro EV.And when did you buy it?I bought it July 4.And was it easy purchase?Was it hard?Was there a demandat the dealership?Oh, yeah, it took about twomonths for me to buy it.And it's only because I knew thegeneral manager of the Kia shopthat he was able tofinagle his way to getKia corporate to get him.Oh my gosh!I mean, we hear aboutpeople not beingable to buy them at all becausethey're only sending themto the states that have joinedwith-- they're sending themto the clean air states.Yeah.And but I didn't realize thatthere was that much demandout here for it.Well, I was probablyone of the firstthat bought a Kia Niro EVwhen it first came out,so it was hard.I was shopping thatbetween a Kona.But to put my stroller in it,the Niro was a little easier.And so that's why wewent in that direction.So what was the knowledge?It's interesting, so wepurchase every car we test.We go out and buy it.And in the case ofthe Mirai, what,did we ship it from California?And I think alsoour first LEAF, wehad to ship in from California.So what was a knowledge of thesales team about the vehicle?Oh, it was horrible.I mean, being aYouTube auto junkie,I mean, I knew way more aboutthe car and rightfully, right?I didn't expect them to know.But you kind of have to armyourself, watch CR all the timeand just be able toknow what you're gettingand what to expect.So it's one of thosethings that are difficult.I like that they'redoing Charge Up La.There's a lot of things thatare promoting it out there.They didn't have itback then when I did.I just had to findinformation for myself.Wow.And I saw you alsohad your hand up.You have an EV.My name is Fern, and I'mfrom Altadena, California.And I have a 2011 Nissan LEAFand also a 2017 Chevy Volt.And I kind of havea heritage of EVsbecause my dad,in the late '60s,started an electriccar conversion company.And--Wow.--he used to take a small,usually foreign vehicles,and convert them to electric.So we still have now.It's just been furnishedby a new owner--but in 1959, Vespa vehicle.And he did an electricconversion on it.So it's kind of fun to see,that after all of these years,that people have finallycaught on to electrics.I know we didn't talk aton about this earlier,but there is that movement--customization andpeople souping up cars.And you think of MonsterGarage and that kind of stuff.But also, there arepeople who are doingEV conversions of classics.And that's a way thatyou can get some of the--breathe some new lifeinto some of these carsand keep them on theroad and keep them clean.I think it kind ofcomes back to the factthat electric cars are--I mean, look, ifyou're an early adopterand still in a lot ofelectric car market,it is kind of cateringto early adopters.Again, being the firstone buying the Kia,the dealership doesn't reallyknow a whole lot about it.You kind of have tojump through hoops.And we're jumping through hoopsbuying these cars early, too.But what's interesting is thatit also lends itself so wellto like a classic car.I mean, I've seenthese conversions.And it's brilliant becausenow it's something--it's an older car, butit starts every time.You're not worriedabout the gas gumming upif it's sitting for a long time.A choke is a funthing to ..OK?Let's be honest.What's a choke?Stay in the car.The points?The points?Anybody?Carburetor?No.ExactlyDo you mean like,electronic fuel injection?Is that what you'retalking about?No, but it's perfect.I mean, if you havea vehicle that it'sjust for like that sunnytime going to the car show,you may get a tricklecharge in the garage.It's perfect.You talked about carculture in California.I grew up thinking Jan andDean and the Beach Boyswere still currentfrom my fatherwho had a '65 Corvette anda collection of old cars.But he moves into now.He has a Z06, a Corvette Z06.And he has a veryefficient small car.So yeah, you could haveboth fuel economy specials,and you could have also fun.But I'll tell you what, thatCorvette gets great mileageon the highway.And another classicname, the Mustang Mach-Ethat we saw out of here.Using that name,it's controversial.But at the sametime, it's givingthat sense of theMustang was sortof freedom for a lot of people.It's that affordable,sporty, cool carthat people could actually own.Yeah, I mean, theMach-E. I mean,I love breaking the rules.It breaks the rules.And I think we're seeing a lotof that with electric cars.They're breakingthe rules, right?They're breaking the rulesof what the range could be.We saw the Tesla's truck thatbroke all the rules of whatstyling is.And all the windows.Nicely done.Nicely done.I'd also say thatpart of the other,I think, almost rule orassumption that EVs break is--and you said it--they're cool.I mean, more andmore car companiesare putting out a reallycool, compelling, sexy EVs.And if anyone'sever been in one,I mean, neck-snappingacceleration,full torque right off theline, quiet, comfortable.They're a great ride.And they're fun.And they're sports cars.Exactly, It's amazing.We were talking earlierabout that the Jaguar I-PACE.And it's a car thathas some shortcomings,but wow, it is fun to drive.It's really, reallyfun to drive.Even though, I mean, again,a car has shortcomings,the Chevy Bolt, OK, theseats can be far better--Yeah, they're kind oflike these, but yeah.--they're a little morestable, but a fun car to drive.And it's a fun caryou could drivewith the handbrake,the paddle breakingfor the regenerative breaks.You don't have touse the middle pedal.You can just drive withyour right foot and brakewith the steering wheel almost.It's great.It's a fun car to drive.It's also, what we'retalking about-- it'smore fun to drive a slow car,fast than a fast car slow.I agree.Do you agree?Always, always have.And you drive every carat the speed limit, so.Yeah.Absolutely.Always scanning,looking both ways.Mirrors properly adjusted.Mirrors properly adjusted.And make sure you get allthose active safety systems.That is true.That is true.So we've kind of gone on a--we've of talked about EVs.But what also aboutsome of the otherrules out here about cars?And there's thisthing called CARB,and it affects the restof the world, really.David, maybe you can talka little bit about that.Sure, California brokethe rules decades agowhen they said airpollution is literallyputting our health at risk.And California was thefirst state in the nation,in the world toactually move forwardon air pollution standards.And that history,starting in the late '60sand officially locked inthe decades after that,has fundamentallyrevolutionized the car industry.We were talking beforeabout carburetorsversus fuel injection.Well, air pollutioncontrols are oneof the great reasons why we havebetter systems for controllingthe air fuel mixture, whichreduces pollution and can boostperformance in a lotof these new cars.So California'sbeen a trailblazerwhen it comes tomaking cars cleaner,and as a result,pushing innovation.I mean, why do we have EVs?A lot of it is becauseCalifornia said,car companies, you've gotto give consumers a choice.There's this new technology.It cuts the cost ofoperation in half.You got to give them the choice.You've got to make sure thatmore people aren't stuck justbeing the first personbuying that new Niro,that anyone can get those.It's changed the marketplace.And along with it,you've got to give creditto Tesla for really seeing thatopportunity, investing in EVs,saying, we'regoing to go all in.But part of why theywent all in is theyknew, in California, theycould get support becauseof the push for the technology.So yes, so we're herein Southern California.That's for the benefit of ourlisteners, not for you folks.You know where we are.But I hope.But yeah, but a quick train rideaway-- see what I did there--there is--Bravo.--there's Silicon Valley.And that's the other partof this California story,that innovativeculture that move fastand break things that mightbe fine when you're watchingTalking Cars, but yeah.Not when you're in a car.Yeah.Well, I mean, look, justa pause on innovation.I mean, it just kind of bridge.You talk about CARB, talkabout the emission standards.And I always kind ofhear these, like, oh, Iwish they made the cars likethey used to in the '60s whenthey did big engines.Thank goodness they don't.Let me just say thatbecause the carsthat they're showing here--the LA Auto Show is just biggerand better every freaking time.It is just amazing.I mean, we have just somany innovative vehicles,so many introductions.And it's not justthe electric cars.With the emissionstandards that wehave right now, with the fuelefficiency standards, with allof that, we've got600 horsepower,700 vehicles that are notputting out a lot of pollution.It's amazing what they'reable to do because I knowwhen they originally cameon some of these standards,oh, everyone's going tobe driving around carsat 20 miles anhour, and there aregoing to be like thesetiny, little cars.Didn't happen because theengineering and the innovation,both in Silicon Valley and--It took some while tocatch up, but yeah.But it's amazing what is capableright now with all of that.And I think that drive forinnovation, the next big thing.I mean, obviouslythere's a lot of--because of the success ofthe automotive culture here,we have a whole lot of traffic.And there is thiskind of desire for,well, let me go and do somethingelse while my car drives medown the street.And it is somethingthat's aspirational.And as an engineer,it's exciting to tryto figure out how to do that.And it drives technology.But yes, obviously wehave to do it safely.We have to do thetesting safely.Has anyone out here seen?Because up the East Coast--Oh, actually, yeah.--we don't see cars tested--Test autonomous cars, testing.--we don't see Waymo.Has anyone been drivingto work and look over,and there's just nobodyin the front seat?You've seen them?Where in Californiadid you see that?Silicon Valley.Up in the Silicon Valley?Yeah.Hi, My, name is Andrew James.I'm from Berkeley, California.And typically, inSilicon Valley,just driving aroundin the Bay Area,you see test vehiclesall the time,especially near MountainView, near Sunnyvale.So they're fairly common.So I see your shirt oryour bicycling shirt.Have you had to share theroad with one of those?Not particularly.But would you feelcomfortable if yousee one kind of coming up behindyou that'll recognize that?I think now, yeah.Yeah?OK.And I think partof that is gettingfamiliar with the technology.I mean, you talkedabout the Arizona crash.And one of the challengeswith such a new technology isone mistake can set people--create a lot of fear andcan set the technology back.The flip side of it is it's goodto get people safely exposedto them.And I think that that'sthe rub right nowwhen it comes to theseself-driving carsor partly self-driving carsis let's set some guidelines.Let's have some clear rules.And let's roll themout carefully and testthe technology ina safe environmentwhere the car companies thinkabout who they're on the roadwith and what they'regoing to face.With the Arizona crash,they just failed.They fundamentallyfailed to do that.They didn't have asafety driver preparedto respond appropriately.They didn't have thesystems that would requirethem to be paying attention.And as you said, they literallydisabled some of the vehicle'ssafety systems.And it's the wild,wild west out here.And that's what worries meis you could turn people offto the technology withmore stuff like that.Well, I guess one of thequestions for the paneleven, or theaudience, is it justa rush to be first on bothmunicipal sides as wellas automakers?Everyone hears in themedia, and sometimes we evenhave written about--they're coming.Autonomous is coming.It's coming.And then you see this.And you hear that.People think that a Teslais a self-driving car.And then you have municipalitiesopening up and saying,come here, come here, come here.Does it set unreal expectations?Does it lead to that?And those municipalities maybearen't even designed for them.You have something, inthat particular case,that looks like a crosswalk,but it's not a crosswalk.It encourages people tocross a road somewhere.And the car isn't programmedto know that the waythat a human driver would know.Well, and San Franciscoand Silicon Valleyare very differentplaces, same with LA.So a technology that may be ableto handle the level of trafficin Silicon Valley mayhave a much harder timein the chaos of traffic in LAor the hills in San Francisco.Or winterOr winter in the New York rains.When you've got caked-onsnow on all your sensors.When you can't see the lanes.And the minute you can'tsee the lane markeras great as eyesight isfrom Subaru, it turns off.Turns right off.The systems turn off.We cannot use them, not tomention milling the roadsconstantly for potholes.Yeah, exactly.And that's the level of stuffthat you can do out herein figuring outhow it translatesto the rest of the world.So we talk aboutsmart regulation.And I mean, I thinkthat the state sortof acting as thelaboratories of democracy,this idea that these statesare doing cool things.I want to move tosome news that'shappening right now around uswhere California, Michigan,and what, at 26 other states?Or what's going on, David?So right now, there'sreally in many waysa battle over the futureof the auto industry,and a question ofhow much are wegoing to invest in cleaner carsthat save people money on gasor maybe don't usegas altogether?In the lastadministration, therewere rules that were set up thatsaid that car companies haveto gradually increase the fuelefficiency of their vehicles.Basically, the concept is youshould be able to have your SUVand afford to fill it up, too.Doesn't seem too crazy.And when we looked at thenumbers, when we calculated it,it makes sense.You can save moneyfrom the first monthyou own a car, if you'rethe normal person whofinances a car, bygetting a vehicle thataverages more fuel economy.You pay a littlebit more upfront,but it's spread out over a loan.We show that, withthe regulations thatare in place rightnow, people wouldsave about $3,300 overthe life of the car.But there's a push in Washingtonto roll those requirementsback.California on the otherhand, which under the law,under the Clean Air Act, canset its own greenhouse gasstandards, issaying, hold on, wewant to keep protectingour citizens.We want to makesure that they'vegot the latest innovationsand more choices,so don't take awaythese rules that we allnegotiated together.Well, now, Californiaand Washingtonare going head-to-headthrough rules, in the courts,and in the courtof public opinionabout what should the futureof our car technology be?And there's some newsnow that the state--I mean, it's a smallnumber of vehicles--but the state is sort ofeven made a statement thatthey're not going to purchasevehicles from the manufacturerswho are siding with--Right, so what'shappened in this battleis a subset of companies--Ford, VW, Honda--BMW--and BMW-- thank you--have made a dealwith California.They said, we willvoluntarily agreeto innovate, to put moretechnology in our carsso that we can get somethingclose to that $3,000lifetime savings.A lot of other car companies,Toyota GM, Fiat Chrysler,and others have said--Many of whom advertisea lot about their fuelefficient cars, many of whom arefamous for fuel efficient cars.So yes, California hasresponded by saying,sorry, our state's not goingto buy your cars anymore.We need to go all electric.And not only that,we're not goingto buy from someonewho is fightingagainst the future ofclean air in California.It's a pretty big deal.Yes, as you said, it'snot a ton of cars.But as a publicstatement, that'spretty radical, actually.It's pretty bold for Californiato be out there doing that.It's like you folks drivingyour hybrids out hereand parking them out front.It's that.And sometimes, yougot to make a point.I think earliersaid, this is reallyabout the battle of thefuture of the auto industryand the future ofcar technology.And based on every analysiswe've done, I got to admit,we come down on the side of,keep the standards strong.It's better for consumers.It saves you money.And going back towhat Jake said,never ever doubt the innovativeprowess of the American autoindustry or any car companies.You set a bar, they meet it.That's what Californiahas done year after year.They said we're going to settough emission standards.It didn't end the auto industry.If anything, the autoindustry is thriving.And you all tend to love yourcars because you set a bar,and the car companies ultimatelyknock it out of the park.And reliability, too.I mean, look at ourlatest reliability survey,these cars that arelasting for-- yeah, right?Well, average car on the road--11 years.And there are many ofthem still ticking--200,000 miles.Some of the peoplehere in the audience--150,000 miles.I mean, one of thethings I was goingto add to yourstatement, David, isthat safety shows youcan have safe vehiclesand fuel efficient.I know a lot of people in2008 and 9, $4 a gallonin the East Coast--I don't want to knowwhat you all paying----why cant I havea Honda CRX HF?I was getting 48 milesper gallon on that car.My three-cylinder Geo Metro.Right, and that carwould probably notperform well against theChevy Bel Air, I believe,if it was crashed against that.That would lose out.Now, you can have45 miles per gallon.You can have 30 somethingmiles per gallon,but you also haveairbags all around.You have electronicsstability control.You have anti-lock brakes.You now have autonomousfeatures, semi-autonomousor partiallyautonomous features.You can now have it all.Well, and just bringing it backto a couple of vehicles, again,we talk about that RAV4Prime that they just showed.I mean, here's a vehicle.It's an SUV, should getnearly 40 miles per gallon,second fastest, 0 to60 in 5.8 seconds.I mean, it's a four-wheel drive.That's insane.Everything.That was muscle car in the '60s.Sure.Right.That was a musclecar in the '90s.And then taking the nextstep towards electric,you mentioned reliability.They're prettysolid, the electric--I mean, just you starttaking apart the cars.You start thinkingabout what goesinto an internalcombustion engine vehicle.And then you look atan electric vehicle,and it's so much more simple.It is so lessthings to go wrong.So I mean, really, whenyou talk about durabilityand reliability andmaintenance, there'ssuch a huge advantage of asecure electric vehicle thatis so fast, too.You have the performance.You have all that.And yeah, you don't have atransmission fail, the fuelinjection system.The drive lineisn't the problem.Yeah.No, even yourregenerative brakes.I you many times do have tochange your pads and rotors?Yeah, so we've done a lotof talking about cars.And I can see folks out here.I see hands raising.People want to talk.So Dave, if you can bringout that microphone,we can get some questions.I saw one of the front row here.Hi, I'm Rick fromIrvine, California.My question is inregards to electric cars.I would be coming up ongetting my first electric car.And my concern, beyondlike range anxietybecause they kindof solve that issue,is what else, inyour opinion, wouldbe beyond range anxietywould be somethingthat I would havewould want to considerbuying my first electric car?Well, I think oneof the things wetalk about a lot is thecommute and where to charge.So can you charge at work?Can you charge at home?Do you live in an apartment?If you live in an apartment,do you park on the street?Do you have it in your garage?What about where you're at work?Is it is it one charger thatthe company has or none?Or those are just the someof the basic usabilitybecause when we're--The guy in office next to youplugs into the-- gets an EV,too.And you're both tryingto get there at a 8:55to plug into the chargeror 8:54 to get there.So I would thinkof basic things.But with the200-mile-plus EVs, I justdon't see that asa big deal anymore.I mean, going backand forth to work,you're less likely to seeit going on a longer trip,or if you're desperatelyneed to charge that day.And I think those are thethings that you just-- there issome different thinking when youhave an EV that you got to justget used to, keeping an eyeon how much charge do youhave, and are you ready for?That's the type of thing youhave to just plan with EV.I didn't choose a job basedon the proximity gas stations,for example.And we have an Audi--I actually did.I did.Well, it's becauseit's at the track.But I brought our E-Tron home.I had it for four days.I brought her homeon a Thursday night.I was working home onFriday, drove around,did this did that.It gets cold, rainy, usingthe heat, all of a sudden Irealize I have 30 miles left.My commute's 25 to work.I plugged it in overnight.I had 30 miles rangebecause it takes so long.And I'm plugging itinto my home wall.Oh, so you got 110.So it's things like that.I have 110, right.Yeah, no, absolutely, yougot to have 220 because--And that's the type of thinkingI think you have to have.Absolutely.So I was going to say somethingcompletely different, notanything along that.How cool you are.How cool my friend Jon is here.He is very-- butit's still a car, OK?I mean, yeah,there's all these--and I think David's right.I mean, a lot of the thingskind of getting worked outin terms of range anxiety.It's still a car.And one of the thingsthat we've noticedwith a lot of electric carsis because they realizethat sometimes it'searly adopters are buyingas electric cars, they fillit with a bunch of other stuffthat they don't want.So it is their test beds to puton all these crazy electronicsand capacitive controlsand touch screensand automatic thisand automatic that.And not all that stuff works.So you're stillbuying a car, and youdo have a choice ofmany vehicles out there.You've got more conventionalones like the Bolt.You've got ones that arefarther out there like Tesla.They're trying new things.So ultimately, it'snot rocket scienceto have an electric carthat goes 250 miles anymore.It's somethingthat is available.But you still have a big choicewhen it comes to do with cars.Do you want somethingthat's sporty?Do you want somethingthat rides nice?Do you want the MinorityReport touch screen goingon when you're driving the car?Think about allthose things, too.And do your own research becausewhere we are finding thatfolks, even at the mostprogressive dealerships,they still can't--Right.Yeah, yeah, yeah.And I'd also watch out for.And I've experienced this whenI bought a plug-in hybrid.And I experienced this, andI more recently bought an EV.Not only were they not superaware of the technology,they started trying tosteer me to something else.I'm like, I'm here for ahybrid, or I'm here for an EV.And they're trying to selltheir latest popular thing.I get it, that's themindset they're in.But if you're there for an EV,don't let them steer you away.Make sure they get you whatyou want because you'rethe one in charge.Yeah, because they're tryingto move it off the lotand not pay interest andfloor planning on it.So we've got anotherquestion over here.Hi, my name is Seth.I'm from West Chester, New York.So you guys talkeda little bit earlierabout the fight betweenthe federal governmentand California.How culpable do youthink the automakers are?They're kind of talking outof both sides of their mouth.I mean, clearly ifthey are pushing back,they're hiringlobbyists to make surethat the federalgovernment's pushing back.And yet they're alla little bit jealousof Tesla for getting a lotof their press and whatnot.And some of them are delvinggently into the electric pool,but not really.So I feel like theautomakers reallyare kind of creating their ownproblem by not really embracingwhat is clearly ashift in the technologyand what the public wants.And so GM still wants to sellCorvettes and big trucks,but they also sell the Bolt.And I feel like until they fullycommit, we're kind ofgoing to straddle that lineand not really movethe ball forward.So I was curiouswhat you guys thinkabout the automakers talkingout of both sides of the mouth?Well, the first responseis, you nailed it.I mean, that is exactlyone of the problems.And think of itthis way, automakersknow people really care aboutthings like fuel economy.They care about their publichealth and the environment.They care about safety.Oftentimes, what they'll do isthe market about those things.They'll create halocars and really say,look aren't we great?Look at this car.But they're not necessarilythinking about the mass market,right?They're kind of like,look over here whenthey're doing this over there.The other thing justreal quick that I'd sayis we recently did astudy, and we lookedat automaker advertising.And on some ways, itwasn't surprising.What do they spend mosttheir advertising on?Hitting you inyour gut, emotions.Is it sexy?Is it freedom?Is it this?Is it that?Is it tough?Is it tough?The amount of ads they putout there on electric vehiclesyou can almostcount on one hand.So they're notinvesting in pushing it.And it does create theself-fulfilling cycle.My comment is, don't blameconsumers if they're notbuying electric cars.Blame car companies for notmaking cool, awesome, sexy EVsor hybrids.I do think that's changing.And this auto show showsthat it's changing,but there's stilla long way to go.They got to putas much marketingdollars behind their EV asthey do behind their gas cars.I was just going to say, I thinkthe thing that bothers me a lotis not doing the right thingbecause they don't have to.And I'll just name one kind of--I'm going to call it aloophole-- but the factthat if you can makeyour vehicle big enoughand heavy enough, you don't haveto have the same safety stuff.You get the gross vehicleweight to a certain level,and you're like, well, that'snot really a light vehicle.And you see this with theFord F-250s and those trucks.They talk about, oh,we did all these thingsfor fuel efficiencyand all that.But then they don't tellyou what the fuel efficiencyis because they don'thave to because that'sthe way the rules are ran.You'll see there'san electric pickuptruck that's here byBollinger, I think the name is?Get into it and lookat the dashboard.There's no airbag in this car.It's going to be an expensiveelectric pickup truck.It has no airbag.It's 2019, I believe.And I asked, whyis there no airbag?Well, we don't have tobecause it's heavy enough.It's not required.That kind of stuffblows my mind.Come on, come on,safety, fuel efficiency.I mean, come on, why not?I do think, though, thatthe automakers realizethat their profits are goingto be very different than theyare now.I think they're prognosticating.I mean, if you look at sortof the labor agreements,they're realizingthat there's goingto be a kind of a long winterthat they might not come outof ahead.And I think they're, bypushing as many crossoversby as much easymoney as possible,by pushing as many trucks and--They're companies.They're there to--They're trying to makeas much as possible.--make money andplease stockholders.So yeah.I think all that's true.But you've got to becareful of cutting offyour nose to spite your face.Exactly, exactly.Because when I'm driving downthe road, the way I keep myselfand my family safe, it'snot by looking at the roadright over the hood.It's by looking down theroad and around the curve.That's how you keepyour family safe.That's also you keepyour company safe isby looking down the road.What's coming down the roadin terms of technology?What's the market going tolook like in five or 10 years?Not just what doesit look like today.Yeah, when can we makea quick buck today?I think you're so right.You're so right.That's one thingthat Toyota does do.They look at that long range.I mean, 20 years ago when theystarted out with the hybrids,you know what?It was a kind ofa science projectthat wasn't at all thatdesirable, but stuck with it--Yeah, it's in the RAV4.--the said in the future, it'sgoing to make sense, right?Or fuel size.And the Highlander.And they're not selling a hugeamount of Mirais right now.But you know whatthey're saying?Hey, down theroad, we think it'sgoing to be a thing whenwe have the infrastructure.There was a hand over there.Yeah, someone has a question.Hi, I'm Brenda I'mfrom Monrovia, the homeof the late, great Kota EV.WowYou can still see some ofthe streets of our city.Oh, wow.You had mentioned earliermunicipal regulations.And we're known as earlyadopters and innovators.One of the things that certainlywe see not only in my city,but throughout California--and you talkedabout manufacturesneeding to do themarketing, but Ithink consumers have to alsounderstand the infrastructureand what the relationship is.Now, California andour local jurisdictionshave made progress in comingup with networks of EV chargersthroughout the systemand encouragingthose in developmentprojects and new housing.Transit-orienteddevelopment is whatwe are all about around here.And you don't even haveto have two parking spacesper apartment in most places.And so those infrastructuremunicipal thingsthat affect theway consumers livethat aren't necessarilydriven by the manufacturers.And I was wondering howdoes that translate maybeto the East Coast, comparingCalifornia to that?Thank you.I'm really glad you broughtsome of those things up.And Shawn, yeah.I mean, one ofthe things I thinkKeith can also fill in with--Montreal, Canada andthe province of Quebec.Montreal, I visitedthis summer and chargersare everywhere andincentives that youmust buy for registeringnew cars down the road.They make it a lot cheaperto own an EV up there, too.Exactly, exactly.And all the Uber driversthat were up there.I'm not advocating for Uberover something else or a cab,but a ton of them had new EVs,new Hyundai EVs, and such.And you couldn't justplug it in on the street.And that is the push by theprovincial government, letalone the city ofMontreal, in someof the harshestconditions on earthwhere places to test cars.I went to some areasoutside of Montrealin the Eastern Townships.I bring that up becausewe have a lot of listenersfrom up there.But and in some ofthese roads, thereare people driving theNissan LEAF on dirt roads.They got snow tires.They're fine.And it's way below freezing.But we also did a littlebit of a road tripthat where we can get a littlebit of a preview of, too.Jon, I think youmight be able to--Yeah, so some of our----around Connecticut.--some of our staff wouldtake some of our EVsand drive up and down theI-91 corridor, Interstate 91.We don't call it the 91.We call it I-91 out east.And just tried to find chargingstations a few miles offthe highway.We weren't going into the woodsof Connecticut where we are.But they found a lotof difficulty at times.There's a charger here.Oh, they've been iced by aninternal combustion enginecar sitting by the charger.They get into a garageand have to pay.They pay for the garage.They go up to the third floor.It's not working.And no one knows how to fix it.No one knows on theapp that they're using,it hasn't been updatedto say it's broken.So that's thetrouble-- you can useapps to find acharger in your area,but you may not know thestatus of that morning,or that moment, orif it's blocked,or if it's full of cars.It takes a lot ofplanning, still,I think, to end up withouthaving those charges thatare plentiful and--And there's differentcharging networks.And you've got to be subscribedto this one or whatever.I mean, like if youhave a gas-powered car,you don't have tolike, well, I needto get a mobile cardbefore I go to the mobile.I could pay cash.Yeah.Right.It's like gettinga scooter outside.I have to have the app beforeI can move the scooter.Oh, no that's a bird.Oh, not that's a line.Which is something that's--sorry-- that's somethingthat's different here.Because again, Californiais put into law requirementsthat you need to be ableto use a common creditcard to be able to pay ata charging station here.So what you'retalking about paintssuch an important contrastand how other states aren'tfollowing suit yet with someof the great innovationsthat are out here.Even building codescan be an issue.I mean, the fact that you'rehaving a charge at 110 at home,well, at least withnew construction,you always have tohave a 220 side sothat you can plug in your EV.Or put a 220 in the garage.I got to say, I go fromBoston and Connecticut.I live in a condo buildingthat dates back to the 1800s.It's on the National Register.It's not fancy, but it's old.And some of that--They had condos in the 1800s?No, actually, it was----if I tell you whatit was in the 1800s,people would know where I live.But it was somethingelse in the 1800s.All right.And there's nowhere to charge.And in order to run the powerthrough, they just can't do it.So I could never own anEV, even though I want one.There's not a lotof new constructiongoing on in certainparts of the country.And retrofitting getsreally expensive.Well, and that's where publiccharging and retail chargescan be so critical.I mean, you can easily spendan hour or two shoppingin some of these places.It's some companies use it as agreat way to haul in customers.Yeah, yeah, actually, I wason a panel earlier this weekthat talked about that.And folks from companiesthat run malls,they see it as they are workingwith Tesla, Electrify America.They're working withcompeting companiesto bring in these chargers.But I still want to beable to plug it at homebefore I go to work.Yeah, and that's what a lotof the retailers are doing.They're putting those chargersthere to draw people in.And then they can buywhile they're waiting.I see anotherquestion in the back.Hi, my name is Jason fromSherman Oaks, California.And as you said, you could tellby my shirt, I am a Tesla fan.I am president the LosAngeles Tesla Owners Group.Cool.You were talking aboutcharging and that being hard.That's one of the things Ithink Tesla has done really wellwith the supercharger network.If I do go on a long drive,I don't have to worry about,is that charger broken?Is it down?Because the car tells me, inthe car, chargers offline,chargers online.There are eight of 10 chargersavailable in that site.Stop at this charginglocation for eight minutesand then go into thenext charging location.I also want to say youwere talking about oneof the questions about EVs.And a lot of people often ask,well, how reliable are they?How long is your batterypack going to last?I'm also the owner of anoriginal Tesla Roadster.Oh, wow.And it'll be celebratingits 11-year birthdayin a few months.I have my original battery pack.I still get over 220 miles ofrange on a full battery charge.So they work wonderfully.I have had very littleproblems with itin its 11 years of life.And it still drive it not daily,but almost at least a few timesa week.So pro-tip, that'show you get invitedto the Tesla Cyber Truck Event.I would just .Yes, I did drive theCyber Truck last night.It was awesome.That looked likea quite a party.It's awesome.It was fun.Like you said, itbroke many rules.And I think oncethey're on the road,people are going to think thatis the greatest truck everinvented.Yeah, I mean, justa couple of noteson looking at that,what Tesla hasdone with the infrastructure.And they really did kindof change the rules.I mean, until we had that Teslainfrastructure going across,I mean we're just kind oflike, you got this car,and you go back and forthto work, and that was it.I mean, they didkind of do that.And yeah, now we'rein a world whereyou could drive across thecountry with an electric car.And I think that is awesome.And I think they do make it thatit's kind of like a no-brainer.It's like you go there,and you plug it in.And you don't have tofiddle with anything.The only downsideof it is-- and Iknow Tesla has really talkedabout like they reallywant to move the market.They want toelectrify everything.Yeah, they changed theworld and all that.And maybe this is very muchof an East Coast thing.But we have a lot ofrest stops that we'revery old and very small.And you can't findparking in them anyway.And there's likeeight spots thatare Tesla chargers,which are usually filledwith large pickup trucks.But beyond that, ifanother automakerwanted to put theirown stations there,there's no room for them.And if you had anelectric car, youcan't get a charge fromyour Tesla charger.And there's really no room toput other electric chargers.So I mean, I thinkthe one downside,although at the timeit made so much sense,it would be great to kind oflift all the bolts up and allowother electric car usersto be able to kind of havean infrastructure.So I mean, can you imagine aworld that when Ford came outand General Motors cameout and Dodge came out,there was only gas stationsfor each one of them.And that's a little bitof what we're saying.Well, they havea special nozzle.Yeah.Right, right, right.With my diesel, I'vehad that happen at truckstops with the giant--yeah, the difference.But luckily, there'susually another pump justdown the road.That's different.Well, and who knows?I mean, Tesla has openedup some of their patents.Maybe they can open upsome of their chargers.Or is it going to beanother Apple versus Androidsort of idea?I hope not, becauseI agree, it'sanytime you're limitingconsumer choice that way,it can become a challenge.I think what Tesla didwas amazing, right?I mean, they put inthose chargers as a wayto help sell their cars.It wasn't just about theability to charge up,it was, we're going to solverange anxiety fear two ways.There's an automakerbeing seriousabout wanting to sell EVs.Absolutely.They made them cool.They don't spend money ontraditional advertisingthe same way.But they sent you up toan event in Californiathat looked likequite a spectacleand got more press than a lotof things here at the show.And hopefully, theycan open it up,because they've done so much.I mean, it's kind oflike telecom, right?I mean, you can seeAT&T and Verizon--Yeah, exactly.--they're all competing, butthey have their own networks.And they've got all thesedifferent cell towers.But I mean, I'm gladthere aren't youknow three differentrails of railroad tracksthat go across the country thatonly certain trains can go on.It's one thing whenit's cellular signalsin the sky that don'ttake up space, per se.It's a whole other thingwhen it's literallya physical object.Does anyone own a Betamax VCR?Oh, look at that.He's very proud-- yeah.Any other questions?Hi, my name is Ashton.I'm from Whittier.I have a question.With the safetybenefits of technologieslike Apple CarPlayand Android Auto,I've noticed some manufacturersare leaving them offof the base modelof their vehicles,or others are charging fees,annual monthly fees for them.Can you say whythey would do that?You've touched a nerve or five.First of all, I all it ends updoing is creating distractions.OK, so I own a BMW.I don't, but I buy a BMW, and Idon't want to pay that charge.And they say well, thatway, people who leasearen't paying everythingupfront for the second owner.I'm just going to put somethingup on the dash, if at bestor hold it in my hand.I don't have this.That's a concern.So the broader question is--I mean, it's really notjust about Android Auto.All these differentoptions, whichare somewhat safe, I mean,what kills us is, oh, youwant pedestrian detection?We'll, you got to pay extra.You want automaticemergency break?You got to pay extra.I mean, this is stuffthat may save your lifeor save a life of apedestrian or something.It's like, oh, well,that's a luxury.No, it should not be.Now, Android Auto andCarPlay, interestingly enough,we have a lot of surveyswe're asking about these.And what we do find is thatpeople who have these featuresare much less likelyto pick up their phoneand use and manipulateit that way.And we know peoplewho do that aregoing to be more likely tobe distracted and crash.So it is a shame.And this new feature--So what you'rereferring to is this--and it's reallyBMW and Audi thatare using wireless CarPlay.And they are charginga fee to use that.And that's just anothersource of income.And I don't get it.It is a little disturbing,though, because as wehave these electronicconnections,this digital connection toyour car, I mean, what's next?Oh, we're going to turn offyour seat heaters if youdidn't pay the $3 this month.The cruise control.The description model.I mean, look, it'sa ..Look at you're streaming videoand how many things you nowhave to have if want to watch.You're whole car's a a la carte.Yeah, everything is a la carte.And we had this wonderfulprogram, What the Fee?At Consumer Reports.And I'm making asuggestion here.Maybe this is one that we takeon as an extremely consumerunfriendly one that you haveto pay to use something thatis already coded into your car.So unfortunately, it is a raceto the bottom in many cases.It is.And you can see thisbecoming somethingmuch like airlinefees and hotel fees--Yep.--with other manufacturers.It took passing a law.Literally, it tookit an act of Congressto try to at least startreining in the airlines.It used to be evenworse, believe it or not,than it is today.Now, at least theyhave to tell you whatthe full price is, upfront.Cable companies don'thave to do that.We're trying to get a lawpassed to change that.I mean, Jake, you all havetalked about destination fees,too, as a whole other fee.Yeah, they keep ongoing higher and higher,and they're not in the MSRP.They don't advertise those.It's like oh, andby the way, you'regoing to pay another $1,500to get your Fiat delivered.It doesn't make sense.Whether it's built in thesame town that you're in,or it's being shippedacross the country,which is even more insulting.In the world.Yeah.And look, I getit, they're in thisto make money-- good on them.But be straightforwardwith your customers.Tell them what it's reallygoing to cost, and justbuild it into the price.But as Jake said, safetyshould never ever be a luxury.At the end of the day, theyknow you want to be safe.They shouldn't takeadvantage of that.They should actually getyou and bring you in as oneof their favorite customersby putting safety first.And the good newsis we're seeing--and especially at this showas we're updating profiles,we're seeing more and morecars are getting those things.Even from 2020 versus2019, more and more cars,as they're gettingredesigned, theyrealize it's just cheaperto make one screenrather than to make twodifferent screens or twodifferent systems.And you're going to getthat in all the levels.So that's a great question.In the same waywith safety, we'veactually tried to movethe market forwardby giving manufacturerspoints or taking them awayif the whole line of vehiclesdoesn't have certain safetyfeatures.So automatic emergency braking,forward collision warning.Yeah, exactly.And I think we're looking atother aspects of that, right?Yeah.My name is Raj.I'm from San Jose, California.I think themanufacturers benefitfrom your placingtheir cars way upon the ranking list, likethe X5, for instance, right?But what happens whenthe reliability drops?What responsibility do you haveto get a response from themon that kind of a thing?Getting them to act onreliability questions.Because if youput them up there,the benefit from the feedback.Well, so one of thethings that we do,we now have, for last year ortwo, what's an overall score.So how we generate that scoreis we take our road test.And we-- many of know, but someof our listeners and viewersmay not--we put every vehiclethrough 50 tests--some subjective, some objective.You incorporatesafety features, whichwhat they have is standard.And then we also look at ourreliability and our ownersatisfaction scores.Reliability's weighted heavier.And the BMW X5 isa great examplebecause it had a veryhigh overall score.It has a very highroad test score.But it had a high overall score.But when its reliabilitydropped, it significantly fell.And if a manufacturer wantsto be high in our rankings,it's no longer just road test.It's not road test score.They sit at the top.Great, it'd make a fantasticvehicle to drive and live with,and it falls apart.Nothing you can do about thatunless you make that choice.Now, it just fallsto the bottom.So if you're looking forthe top performing vehicles,you're not going to see that.I mean, and kind of somethingthat's very, very differentabout our ratings thanvirtually anywhere else,because they rate thevehicles on how they drive.We realize that makingsure it continues to driveis a really important thing.And it seems so obvious,but it's virtually notthere anywhere else.And I'm oftentalking to reporters.And they're like, this car wasNorth American Car of the Yearor so and so a car of the year.And like why didn'tyou guys like it?What?And then we hear from ownerswho have these cars, I mean,hundreds of them,and saying, the carspent 22 days in the shop, andthe dealer won't call me back.I'm driving a loaner thatwasn't as nice as what I got.And it's likethat's so important.And it just kind of blowsmy mind in this day and agethat this can be carof the year or whateverand not even considerany of those things.My friend bought and XC90,brought a first-year, XC90.And he had a lot of problems.Volvo XC90, he had alot of problems on it.So the loaner car?Range Rover Sport.Huh.Which was reliable.That drove without a problem.So you just look at that.Anyone else?Any other questions?One more.It's kind of an EVpolicy question,maybe going backto hidden costs.California is oneof the states thatis trying to recoup lostrevenue from gasoline taxesthat aren't being recuperated.And so I'm not sure what otherthings might be down the way,but I thought maybeputting a tax on the tiresif they're really tryingto get mileage on the roadas being one of thethings that could be done,maybe based onscores on a tire?But anyways, whatare your thoughtson those type of policies?And anything elsethat we might notknow that is comingdown the road for that?For those who are listening,David Friedman's grinjust kept growing asthat question got asked.Well, I feel likesomeone asked youto come here and talkabout some of the issuesthat we love so much.So we actually recentlydid a report very much tiedto this issue, becausethere's actually statesall over the countrywho think the wayto solve their highway fundingshortfalls is to tax EVs.And we just did a studyrecently that literallyshowed that numerousstates are literallycharging EV owners more thanpickup truck drivers arepaying in gas taxes.So they're actually puttingmore of the burden for the roadson vehicles that tendto be lighter and doless damage on the road.There's a lot of differentideas that are at play.There's no doubtwe've got potholesand failed bridges all overthe place in this country.I think we usuallyget about a D or an Fon our infrastructure score.That's not great for anybody'sreliability of their carin the long-run.People talk aboutdifferent things.Maybe some is justboosting up the gas tax.Maybe some of itis per mile fees.Maybe there'sopportunities for whenyou're on roads that needmore upkeep that there'sways to charge feesassociated with those.I don't think there'sa silver bullet.But the reality isthere's a real problem,but it doesn't makesense to put iton the backs of people whoare trying to solve biggerproblems likesaving money on gasor addressing climate change.So one thought I had wason the score.The tires that lastlonger, maybe thoseare incentivizedbecause then youget better tires as wellto be able to tax alongthose type of mileages.So Jake and company shouldweigh in on this, too.The complication istires are actuallya high-tech part of your car.And there's a lot oftrade-offs that can happen.Just because a tirelasts a long time,doesn't necessarily meanit's the best tire out there.Its rolling resistancemay be worse,and so you're actuallyspending more money on fuel.Or its stopping distancemight not be as great.So if you're goingto think about it,I'd go per mile ratherthan for the tire, itself.I think it's very interesting.And actually, it's somethingthat I will definitelythink about.And I think it's areally interesting wayof going about it.And the question is reallyis, is how much tireyou use more closely relatedto how much fuel you use?And I think we're seeingthat disconnect with the EVs.So I think that'svery, very interesting.I mean, yeah everything'sa balance, but I mean,you could you argueagainst electricsand fuel efficient cars.It's like well, carshave to be smaller.It's a balance.Or they're heavy, andthey do use the roads.And when it comesto tires, I mean,good tire manufacturersare able to getfuel efficiency and longevityand all those things.So really interesting,I haven't heard that.I think that's a reallyinnovative way to think.And I think, again, kindof going full circle,I mean, this is why we're in--Like a tire.--California.So like a tire.Innovation.Sorry.A lot of innovationcomes out of here.And I think it's timethat we start thinkingabout these things differently.And that's a differentway of thinking about it.And we all have to do that more.Or also something that maynot be a regressive tax.You're buying it.You have a heavier car.You have a tire.You have to makethat choice not justat the pump whereyou're stuck in--it's just a flat taxno matter what you own,or it just what you fuel.It's should be relatedto your use, yeah.Well, the interestingcurveball on thatis what really iswearing down our roads?It tends to be thebig 18 wheelers.So that that's wherethe real issue is.And they use a lot of tires.And they use a lot of tires.And a lot of fuel.Sure.You are gettinginsights into howpolicy gets made, thought of,and how we see our decideradvocacy position.A lot of times.So keep an eye out.Thank you so much, everyone.This has been great.We've really really,really enjoyed it.We need to come out toCalifornia more often.Yes, particularly in the winter.Yep.And we're really lookingforward to doing this again.So maybe we'll seeyou again next year.And thanks fortalking cars with us.\n"