"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to episode 17 of our show where we discuss the latest news about Apple iPhone iPad mac and more we're recording on Thursday May 21st 2015 today we'll be talking about new Macbook Pros and iMacs Apple acquiring a GPS company and of course the Apple watch we have with us this week Apple Insider senior editor Neil Hughes hi how's it going I ne welcome and Shane Cole what's up cats and kittens and I'm your host Victor marks so this week we had on on Tuesday the uh the IMAX and MacBook Pro announcement and what was really cool about this was was that well I thought it was cool was that the rumor was that this was going to launch on Wednesday and I think I chatted you Neil at the time and said Apple just screwed everyone and said rumors says Wednesday we're launching Tuesday the hell with you all yeah was a little bit of surprise announcement I guess a lot of people were thinking that they might hold it till wwec but uh they decided to go a few weeks early and it's not that big of a surprise because that's kind of the same thing they did last year no people were kind of expecting new Max at WWDC no announcement so I think they want to keep uh WWDC software focused as developers there in the audience and uh that's that's the approach so is there anything special that our audience ought to know about these new machines you can't use them and Target theplay mode which is crap all right so there's that one of the complaints that I heard was someone was really annoyed that there was no USBC port on it uh I mean then get a Macbook I don't I don't know like if I think if anything right now USBC is a hindrance more than a help it's not like there's a lot of cables it seems like people who are bitching about not having any USBC are just are us yeah USBC I don't know why I thought I said that wrong are just people who would normally be like yeah absolutely desperately cannot live you know without a FireWire 800 SSD drive you know oh my God why did you possibly take this away it's exactly the same people well I mean the the the proposition here was that you buy a MacBook Pro you're buying it for longevity right it's it's a Workhorse of a machine it's got all the power in the world you know 16 gigs of RAM one terabyte of SSD you want it to last and so the last thing you want is for the New Port to be there and do not have it well then complain at Intel who doesn't have any quad core Broadwell chips available that's the reason that these 15inch MacBooks aren't really that interesting they're running old chips Apple updated the flash it's got the faster flash memory that was introduced in the newer MacBook 13-inch earlier in the MacBook Air um and they have the force touch trackpad but other than that it's uh the same MacBook did it get a better GPU um did they upgrade the GPU Shane I think it was uh like a slightly model wasn't it the iMac switched gpus but I don't think the I don't think the MacBook Pro did or maybe it's pretty much the same internals other than the flash it's really if they did upgrade the GPU it's not a significant upgrade yeah so the IMAX got a lower cost model and they got the the 5K retina model yeah I mean this is what they've done with the retina models uh before with the MacBook Pro um and you'll see it going to the future with the MacBook they introduce a retina model at a much higher price and keep the non retina models available at a lower price so they can hit both Market points but uh eventually they want to get the prices down and get into the hands of more consumers so now they have under $2,000 for a 5k retina iMac and there's fewer uh non- retina options at the 27inch level uh they've killed some of those SKS to uh kind of streamline a little bit the the uh product options we're sort of in a transitional state where everything goes retina yeah eventually everything in their line is going to be retina but you don't know how long it's I mean they're still selling on the Legacy 13-inch MacBook Pro with the disc drive on it so I I don't see the 27 inch um non rtina going anywhere anytime soon as long as they can still hit those lower price points the one they have now is used to cost 2,000 or 1900 somewhere thereabouts and now it's ,700 so the cool thing to me is that the old 1999 27 inch is gone and for everybody who ordered one but it hadn't shipped yet they automatically gave them a 5k the new low at 5K which I thought was pretty cool yeah it's pretty awesome so what what should our listeners take away from this awesome new machines should they go and get one if you were on the fence about the 5K iMac at $2,000 it's probably more palatable to people now I mean uh as of a week ago you would have had to spend $500 more than that to get that screen so uh it's it's a it's a good deal I think um I think that uh yeah I think that that's exciting the force touch upgrade on the 15 in less exciting just because it doesn't have newer chips I think the real take away from this is the old models are now available for cheaper so if you don't really care about Force touch or the 5K display you can now get the same thing you could have gotten three days ago for a couple hundred less dollars and if you're fanatical about the 15inch form factor you're probably disappointed with this upgrade I think yeah cool awesome so the next story that I want to get to is a story about Apple and GPS we've been talking in the past couple of episodes about how Apple's been been making motions towards their their plans to overhaul their data services and Maps is one of those Shane you did a story about Apple acquiring a Precision GPS company I did tell me a little more about that uh they bought a company whose name hilariously escapes me at this exact second um but they bought a company who it's only a handful of people maybe 10 people it's uh you're sort of standard from Academia to Government research kind of business the name is coherent no navigation that's the one coherent navigation I had I had to Google it to be fair it's not exactly a known company I was I was typing apple insider.com as I was as I was stalling with those words um but yeah it's a typical you know uh people came from Stanford and Cornell got together and said we can make a lot of money if we do some government contracts um so that's what they've been doing they specialize well publicly anyway we don't know what their classified stuff is like but publicly they specialize in really high Precision location Technologies uh their biggest claim to fame was obviously I GPS which everybody now thinks is going to be the next iPhone which is a combination it's a a technique that combines signals from uh the GPS constellation with timing data from the aridium constellation and iridium is in lower orb GPS is IM orbit so the idea is that by combining the two you not only get better Global coverage but you can also get much more precise coverage uh they think you can get up to about a centimeter uh resolution which is the same thing you can get from Europe's Galileo uh constellation if you're willing to pay but their centimeter resolution is only in Europe uh the idea of iig GPS is that you can get one centimeter resolution anywhere um but that's probably never going to happen because it's military and the US military doesn't like to give up their secrets that easily so in reality uh what's probably actually going to happen is there's going to be some other kind of augmented GPS that will be in the iPhone 8 or seven depending what the next iPhone is called it won't be in that one they'll be in whatever the next one is so it's going to be a ways off it's going to improve signal and and quality for consumers right it's going to proove accuracy for maps and other navigation surfaces what does it does it mean anything for the industry what do you mean well so this is something that Apple benefits from does it mean change the the landscape in any way between Apple and Android or Apple and anything else um I mean maybe if there's some kind of awesome new hardware that we you know haven't seen yet but barring that I don't I don't think so I think it's just another way to get you know better better data which they've really failed up until now yeah it's important to remember I think a lot of people don't realize because they just use GPS on their phone and it just kind of works and they're happy with it uh they don't realize that GPS alone is kind of an old and flawed system it's kind of slow and and not as accurate as uh as a lot of smartphone manufacturers would like and if you remember back many years ago when Apple had the location gate socalled controversy where it was storing Wi-Fi networks the reason that the phone was doing that is because the iPhone can use that information with a remembered Wi-Fi networks and uh Cellular Tower data and all that to get your location faster because GPS can take uh you know a minute or two or sometimes even longer in certain areas to lock your location and get it really uh pinpointed so a lot of this stuff that they're doing is just in terms of speeding up and making GPS more accurate if you've ever tried to use the compass feature on your iPhone and had to put it in a figure eight to get it calibrated or like for example in New York you go up from Subway and then it takes forever for the compass to to lock on and tell you which direction you're walking in you hit a block in the wrong direction using the maps to try to get somewhere so all those little things add up and and lead to a worse experience with maps and I think that Acquisitions like this are an opportunity for Apple to kind of improve some of the flaws in the GPS system and and Associated mapping technology yeah if you've um if you haven't used maps in a while by a while I in a couple hours and you pull out your maps and you notice that um you try to find yourself and first it finds you kind of sort of and then in a little while you actually it finds you more closely uh that's a symptom of the progression from um maybe cell trilateration which takes the three cell towers and triangulation location uh Wi-Fi location like Neil just said um there's also agps which is slightly different it's assisted GPS it's mandated I think by the FCC actually so that you can use e911 on cell phones um agps actually uses a data call back to the mobile network issue location um but time to First fix for the GPS is us usually 30 or 40 seconds so you as you see the the progression of getting closer and closer to where you really are um that's moving through the different location options available until GPS is actually ready to go and GPS can be off by you know a few feet too which is why sometimes if you're driving your car it'll think that maybe you exited when you didn't or maybe it'll think that you're still on the interstate when you exited it can have that like 10 to 20 feet off kind of thing or sometimes it just randomly jumps and and goes a little Haywire uh and then kind of figures out where it is but interesting uh since you were talking about um uh cellio triangulation and I mentioned as well Shane I figured I would note actually back in the day the first gen iPhone did not include GPS obviously but you could still get location information from the phone especially if you were in a heavily trafficked area with a lot of cell towers because it would triangulate your location and so I could get uh transit information on the first iPhone uh when I was in New York or something like that uh even though didn't have GPS and it would get my location very accurately surprisingly they were also using Skyhook Wi-Fi as the database for that at the time yeah they still are I think I still and that's that's one of the things I've noticed I think this is a good takeaway for our listeners is that practically right now even though this acquisition hasn't had an impact in an iPhone yet um the thing you can do today is keep your Wi-Fi on when you're out driving around when you're out navigating just having Wi-Fi on will make it more accurate yep that's like I have reminder loc I have location reminders set in uh in ios8 reminders and if I have Wi-Fi off and I'm driving around they are wildly wildly inaccurate popping up blocks or even a mile away from where the actual location is if I turn Wi-Fi on they are spot on yeah so now we've reached the watch portion of our program Shane you've got an Apple Watch and Neil you just got yours is that right I just got it on Tuesday indeed congratulations yes it's a very very exciting time for me You' have joined the fold I I don't have one yet I'm I'm the odd man out here but your wife doesn't have one either no she ordered a week after uh after they went on sale it took her a little while to decide whether she wanted it and then she finally caved so it's to get here late June mine mine was delayed because I made the mistake of ordering the space gray sport which uh in the male dominated pre-order world was apparently the most popular option and uh uh those were backlogged heavily but it finally got here on Tuesday will'll just ignore the fact that I ordered after both of you and got it before both of you he ordered it like two days before it went on sale and got it like no I ordered it the day it went on sale and then you got it like two weeks before me so yeah there you go brilliant so one of the pieces of news that happened is that we now have watch OS 1.01 it is no longer a one product have you have you figured out how to update your watch was it hard the updating process was pretty easy um he just launched the app on the uh uh I mean I manually did it I'm sure that there's an automated update if you just let it sit for a couple days just like iOS or whatever but I just launched the Apple Watch app went into the general and then software update um hit the button it downloaded to the phone and then it wanted me to put my phone on the or my watch on the charger uh and then it transferred over and it just did the loading screen just like the initial setup for the watch and it probably all together took 105 minutes yeah cool what what did we gain in this in this release uh uh nobody small fixes yeah I mean they said it would improve Siri and and this and that and the other but honestly I've had the watch since Tuesday I've already had it crash on me at least four times uh and that's including 1.0.1 so that said I mean for a 1.0 quote unquote product um it's still pretty solid it seems like it's mostly the third-party apps that have been crashing and third party glances that have been crashing the watch but the fact that it's crashing is is not a deal the update um whether or not it actually addressed any usability problems it did come with a pretty large load of security fixes um a bunch of standard from what I could see I haven't really delt into it but a bunch of standard anti- jailbreak stuff um it had a patch for the freak attack which was which came out what uh March February March um and some others so yeah it was a pretty hefty security update but in terms of user facing stuff you know who knows right have you noticed that there was a a new view for the uh the day calendar no no I did not notice that I can't say that I knew there was a day calendar option okay so you can you can review and in sort of today you can see the things happening in your day they they updated and added a view for that is what it looked like on the internet and uh there were there were people that were excited about this oh great new addition that was it looked like the biggest piece of visible change in the UI that I could find yeah just for my first couple days with it you know it's a very 1.0 product um there are a lot of things I like about it but they just kind of need to add some more customization and personalization to you know reach that level of what everybody wants because I feel like everybody's GNA want something different out of a watch you know it's a very personal uh product and that level of personalization it feels like they're a well amount of the way there but not completely like for example uh I really like the complications on the watch faces but because there are so few watch faces you're kind of limited as to the amount of data that you can put on the complications so some watch faces have larger areas for complications so you can get like if you choose weather on one you'll get the temperature and the current conditions but on another watch face none of the complications are large enough to show the current conditions they only give you the temperature or if you choose a calendar entry for example uh most of them are so small that they only show the time for your next calendar entry they do not show uh what the actual event is some watch faces do but you know it would be nice if you could say well I'd like a bigger complication here shrink the watch face a little bit something like that yeah and for some reason some of the watch faces can't be customized uh the astronomy watch face comes to mind you can't change anything on that have you what watch face are you guys using right now uh the one I'm using right now is called chronograph the my daily driver watch face if I have such a thing is a customized version of the utility face uh but at this exact second it's hilarious that Neil was just talking about all the complications because right now I'm using the simple face with nothing turned on but the hands not even not even the hash marks around the outside not even the minute markers or the the hour markers okay and what I I bought a leather strap and I told you ear earlier that I decided the only watch face to use with a leather strap is the Mickey Mouse face there you go any other face just doesn't work will not pass it's not accepted yeah you know I I did a informal survey and I was just looking around and it occurred to me that the from this very informal completely unscientific totally bogus survey that the utility phase seems to be very popular because it allows that kind of customization and and allows the uh good use of the complications on it plus it's not uh super complex so my thing about I tried the chronograph face for a while and my thing about it is at that point the UI just becomes I can't believe I'm talking about the UI of a watch but at that point the UI just becomes too crowded right it becomes too complex and the utility face strikes a really nice balance between displaying a lot of stuff but not feeling overly um packed in so one of the interesting things about the chronograph is uh one of the areas where you would have a complication you actually can't remove it it's a permanent feature of it whereas a stopwatch yeah and my wife is particularly excited about that because she's a nurse and she has to do like timing on people like you know with certain things so for her it's just it will be nice to have something that she can quickly access to do a timer um you can add timer uh complications to other watch faces as well if you want to add that but uh it's one of those things where it's a great start I like that glanceable information to me that's one of the best features of a smartwatch having tested every crappy Smartwatch that has come out before the Apple watch this to me is one of the best features that Apple has it just needs to go that extra mile another interesting feature of the chronograph face is that it's impossible to figure out how to get out of timer mode stopwatch mode yeah it is confusing you're right it took me like it took me at least a minute and a half to figure out how to exit stopwatch mode so you you hit the stopwatch in the top right and then it starts counting immediately and then there's two buttons there's a red one in the top right and a white one in the bottom right the red one is stop start and the white one is lap sorry yeah so you can hit the white one to do to a lap and then you can hit the red one to stop start but then if you stop it then it brings up a green button and then if you hit it again it starts it again it's it's very conf it's very confusing so you start some that sounds like map it maps to the same kind of interface that you get for the stopwatch in iOS on the the phone I've never used the stopwatch in iOS so perhaps but but yeah so it's very confusing so you hit the same button in the top right to stop it and then you hit the lap button to get out of it yeah but if you hit the lap button before you stop it then it just does a new lap and continues timing so the interface is a little confusing on that one it is nice to have that feature there uh permanently and I think that's a good-looking watch face as well so your wife when she's using it as a nurse is she using it for for counting pulse is she you know yeah that kind of stuff you know yeah or you know administering medicine however they I you know she's she's the expert on that stuff I'm I'm just the nerd here but there used to be chronographs that were doctor's chronographs and they were they they were marked with pulsations around the dial kind of I think somebody still makes them I saw one recently there are a few and like another thing like the utility uh face is great I really like it and you can make it more less complex with all the detail on it but they don't let you remove the second hand and I don't want the secondhand on there you know and it's like why do you let me remove all of the other details but not the secondhand just little customization things like that that are obviously going to get better over time and going to gradually improve but on the 1.0 it's a quirk I think second because because Braun did not make a watch without a second hand I think they don't let you remove the second hand because they're so proud that they managed to get that smooth sleep that they don't want it to go away I it actually is really impressive to to it it is it is getting that kind of smooth sweep is beautiful uh one of the cool things that they did this week was they they changed the Apple homepage and they did it to highlight continuity and handoff between all of the devices iOS Mac watch so you guys have these have you used continuity with them um no I'll be honest I have't only to test out you know handoff and see the thing for me is that my in my usage thus far right I may be completely abnormal in this but in my usage of the watch thus far the my primary goal is to get the watch to stay in my pocket or to get my phone to stay in my pocket I don't want to have take my the phone is huge all right let's be straight with this the iPhone 6 is enormous it doesn't fit well in Pockets um I I know I'm gonna get a lot of flack for that but it doesn't just you know be real with yourselves get over yourselves it doesn't fit well in the pocket no big phone my je Co are awesome man can fit iPad Nano in there but yeah so my goal with the watch is to eliminate having to take my phone out of my pocket and to that end it has done fantastically well I'm really happy with it and that's the reason I'm not returning it right but I don't think that there is a compelling reason aside from you know the occasional scenario in which you have groceries in your hands or something I don't think there's a compelling reason to start anything on a watchh that you have to finish on an iPhone I think that you know going in or maybe I guess an a long email that you don't anticipate might be one but you know going in what you're about to do and I don't think there's any scenario which you're going to go try and do something on a watch that you didn't contemplate you know beforehand you're never going to be surprised by the task at hand I think any situation in which you normally use handoff or continuity is you know you just start on an iPhone in the first place but what about the reverse Direction start on the phone and you need to pocket it for some reason to pick back up on the watch also a weird hypothetical that'll never happen well I if for directions yeah the problem is I I don't use Apple Maps so because there's no Transit and I live in New York City so Apple Maps is worthless to me but uh you know maybe if they get transit in Apple Maps it'll be awesome or if Google Maps adds Apple watch support or something like that I will bet you that Transit is coming now if we're I would hope yes if we're if we're expanding the definition of continuity which I guess it's not really expanding just using this whole definition but if we're using it to say things like carrying on an iMessage conversation then yeah I use continuity on the watch all the time but I'm thinking when I'm talking about the interplay between the two I'm thinking more along the lines of hand off right where you're taking a specific action to move something watch to the phone to the phone to the watch well I think a big part of the watch too it's not going to be these third party apps I know that everybody's saying that apps are going to make or break it but I mean honestly Shane do you find yourself going a lot of the time to the app Carousel and picking an app from there and launching them um no other than the workout app yeah I feel like it's mostly glances and watch faces I feel like if you have an Apple Watch you're going to spend 90% of your time there and that's why the default setting on the watch is not to restart where you were when you pick up your wrist but to take you back to the watch face because that's where most of the time is going to be spent they do have an option that you can change in the settings to pick up where you left off what you were last doing if you're in some app or something and so for the minority of users that really want to use their wrist like a phone then they can do that but I think for most people it's about notifications and glanceable information grber had what I thought was a smart on this um he was talking about it in the context of the confusing operation of digital Crown but what he said was that you have to think of the if you think of the watch as bifurcated into two different modes right watch mode and app mode then a lot of the the design choices make sense which I think is totally true but I also agree that that watch mode is going to be by far uh the most important I think app mode is just there because people expect it to be there in a smartwatch I I don't think this would have been hurt at all if the only third party support was glances at launch as long as the glances are actionable you know like you can reply to a a WhatsApp message or whatever yeah I I don't think it would have been hurt at all to not have an app home screen you know yeah I agree I agree totally yeah the apps themselves I don't see myself going there a lot and in fact one of the things that upsets me about the digital crown and the way it works is uh when you're there and you scroll around the apps and then you want to go back to the watch face with the glances you press the crown and then it take and then it centers you which you would expect an iOS because it takes you back if you're on the you know a different home screen it takes you back to the main home screen if you press it again so I understand why they did it but I feel like it would just be better to immediately jump back to the watch face when I press it and just leave the leave the app Carousel entirely but uh one of the things I do like about the um digital Crown is you use the double tap of the home button or of the crown a lot yeah all the time yeah because that's a quick so and obviously that's one of the things that came intuitively to me because you double tap to go into a multitasking tray on an iPhone on your watch it just automatically jumps you back to the last thing you were doing and so whatever app you had open it'll just jump you back to that and I found that to be very convenient especially in times like I went for a run the other day and I have my music on my watch and then I was using the built-in Apple running app and I was talking with Shane about this earlier how it was kind of clunky and didn't work well for me because if I wanted to fidget with the music and turn up the volume or change to the next song or whatever I had to press the home the digital Crown I keep saying home button because it works basically the same way but I had to press the digital Crown then go back to the main watch face then swipe up then swipe over to the glance for the music then adjust the music and then double tap the button to go back to the Run display to show me you know while I was running uh what the you know my my Pace or whatever uh so little things like that like they could fix that very e in software just make it so you know certain apps can make it so you can just swipe up from the bottom to get quick music controls or something like that if they add that kind of functionality into the the running app I think that it would become a lot easier but the fact that I had to go through that many steps while I was running was not a great experience yeah do do you want them to give you the option to change the behavior of the digital Crown so that instead of going to the home it goes to the uh the watch face I feel like they could just it's just one step that they would remove because you're you're already at the home on the app Carousel if you scroll away from the center which by default the center is just the watch uh app right fer of apps right yeah and the center one is a clock if you scroll away and then you press the digital Crown it takes you back to the center and then you press it a second time to get you back to the clock I think it should just bypass that centering and just take you straight to the clock phase right I'm I I think back to the original iPad discussion of the mute switch where we had the loot location excuse me rotation lock or uh mute and we had to big debate out for being able to select that in the app yeah settings yeah I I did like the dedicated Hardware rotation lock I use that uh somewhat frequently so the fact that it was ditched on the iPad Air 2 I understand why because you can do it in control center now and all that but I did like having that there it was I don't understand why I missed that button very much my wife's iPad Air no iPad Air iPad Mini 3 still has the dams which why can't my iPad Air too the Apple gods are capricious yes they they hate they hate us they smile upon us not they Smite us for once for once in my life I actually there's something that they killed that I used right that never happens to me I'm like that guy who usually uses it exactly like they intend for you to use it I really don't care that much geez I'm the guy that they're always taking stuff away from I'm still mad about iMovie what happened what about silence yeah I I was an imov 6 or iMovie HD devote and and iMovie 8 and future versions ruined it for me I'm sorry yes I'm I'm that guy I'm I'm always constantly Amazed by how great these apps now are now on my iPhone like I'll do like quick edits of videos my iPhone or like things that used to like I used to have to like break out a laptop and and Photoshop and and like do stuff to edit a photo and now I can do it so quickly on my phone and so much more convenient you know for all these people that say you need a computer to get real work done well what kind of work are you doing because some of the stuff you can do on a phone or a tablet now is is incredible in terms of its convenience you are so right and I like iMovie on the phone it's just it's great iMovie on the Mac has is ruinous for me yeah iMovie on the iPhone is awesome my best iMovie on iPhone experience was sitting in an Apple Store actually trying to convince the guy at the Genius Bar that my computer was screwed up and predictably while he was standing there it wasn't doing anything right so I set my phone up just record the screen for like 15 or 20 minutes and as we were sitting there uh it happened I pulled the video down edited all the other crap out of it left just the messed up part emailed it directly to the store like sitting from the store's Wi-Fi and got my computer fixed right there brilliant for me totally I don't know how dollars Apple spent on iMovie for iOS but uh for me it was worth it that's brilliant I love that so let's get back on topic we were talking a little bit about all these things so mingshi from KGI released their their sales predictions and we were talking about this before we started recording that that Morgan Stanley was talking about them and you're saying they're the same numbers it's just the people read the headlines and leads differently well I think that uh I think mingi quo's note that he put out this week was written from the perspective of uh investors are expecting some huge number of watch sales and it's not going to meet up to investor expectations which by the way investor expectations are all over the map for watch sales and also they don't matter because Apple isn't going to announce watch sales so who cares but anyhow uh you know we can uh we can speculate all we want about the the sales figures but what mingi said was his predictions and he's got pretty good sources in Apple's supply chain um in terms of you know build outs and stuff like that in the past had pretty accurate numbers on uh iPhone quarterly stuff so I put some faith in what he he says he said what was it 16 million by the end of September yeah he said the end of Apple's fiscal 2015 which is the end of September so you're looking at the first uh six months of less than six months right of uh of Apple watch sales 16 million is that a disappointment in the way he phrased it he made sound like a disappointment when I hear those numbers I think that's pretty dang good everyone should have disappointments like that right and then competing analyst uh uh us-based um Katie huberty with Morgan Stanley came out the same day with a note saying she expects Apple watch sales of 36 million in the first year and she thought that was great well the first year goes beyond September and includes the holiday quarter where probably Apple's going to sell more watches than they did at any other quarter because the holidays people tend to buy gifts Apple sells more everything else in the holiday quarter than they do uh throughout throughout the year so uh I wouldn't be surprised to see you know a huge number of sales in that quarter alone so yeah for the first year it sounds to me like both analysts are pretty much on the same page in terms of their predictions 16 million through September 36 million through uh the end of the first year which would be April of uh 2016 which would include uh the holiday season in the US and the Lunar New Year in China I think that's a pretty good recipe for success UC right there if they could sell 36 million watches of a product that didn't exist a year before in its first year that's a pretty good success I'd say yeah I'd feel pretty good about that too but they're not gonna announce the sales so who cares I mean they already said they are not planning on announcing sales for the watch we're not going to know what the sales figures are so it might affect their bottom line in some way they said that the margins are lower uh and it's going to affect their margins going into the future quarters but we can talk all we want about numbers but we're never going to know them and you know the upshot is they make a watch they sell a lot of them and people seem to like them so far right yeah they want to take the focus off the sales and how much of you can see they they set that that right away like when the iPad came out there quick they wanted to announce how many you know we had a million sold in the first weekend or whatever it was with the Apple watch they said we're not going to announce the sales and that Monday came after pre-orders started and the Monday came after the launch and they said nothing about how many they shipped or how many they sold you know they might give an update at WWDC and give like a generic like you know we've shipped X number of watches to date but they're not going to give them quarterly and they're not going to give regular updates because they don't want to be scrutinized in that way well I mean and the the problem the biggest problem there is that the market is not rational right if the market was rational they'd have no problem saying we sold two million watches right but the market is not rational and they're going to say oh you only sold two million watches but your Apple you should sell 70 million watches that's ridiculous sell so sell right so I mean the market has made their bed you know and they must it yeah the market is all growth that's all they care about and you know Apple the largest company on the planet is posting 20 plus percent year-over-year growth every quarter still and as soon as they stop growing that fast even though they're still going to be the largest company on the planet people are going to be obset and they're going to dump the stock because God forbid your company keeps making a ton of money if they're not growing even if it was half that number any kind of double digit growth would be amazing for a company size a company that's on the verge of being worth trillion dollar market cap right and they are they're posting 20% year-over-year growth making huge amounts of profits gross margins are at 40% I mean they could they could not grow at all and they'd still be raking in cash and just you know and that's not good enough for Wall Street Wall Street needs growth so it's it's their own little world over there and that's exactly why they're not gonna announce watch sales just like Shane said it's going to be deemed a failure even if it's not yep so something for our consumers something for the listeners so there are a ton of people out there that have got new watches there are also a ton of companies out there that are beginning to make watch accessories and one of them was Mofi who made a a dock for charging the watch and they sent you one NE tell me about it yeah so I guess it goes on sale um soon it's not yet available it's it's up for pre-order but they gave us a preview of it um I'm a sucker for docs I really like all of my gadgets having a home that they can kind of go to uh not just for charging purposes but just for OCD purposes of I own stuff and I need a place to put it and feel like it's just right there so um as far as docks go uh it's pretty nice it's uh aluminum and leather um the thing I like the most about it is it routes the cabling through it so um you can uh it hides the the USB wire uh behind it and through the base of it and then straightens it out and pushes out the back um and you basically it uses the magnetic charger so you have to use your own charger um you plug in the to the top of it and the just rests on there and the Magnetic uh abilities of the Char of the charging cable are enough to hold it on the dock and so your watch is on Full display on the dock it's a little pricey uh considering it doesn't have the cable in it you got to bring on cable and it costs 60 bucks uh that's a bit much for a lot of people but you're also talking to a guy who bought an elevation dock for over a hundred bucks and I had to bring my own cable for that too so I am used to spending a little more on docs so if you don't mind spending the $60 on I think you'd be pretty happy with this but there are going to be other options out there too and and uh you know you want to find something that aesthetically is right for you the mix of leather and aluminum is is okay it's it's not an ugly dock um it's it's okay looking um and it fits right in with the aesthetic of the watch I think um it looks nice enough and I'm I'm generally pretty happy with it I mean it's it's hard to praise or or hate on a dock if it works so it works so if you had to to nail it down recommend or not fly or fail I'd recommend it yeah absolutely if you're okay with the price at 60 bucks I think I think a lot of people are going to know right away when they look at it and hear the price because other than that it works exactly as advertised but if 60 bucks is too much for you you don't like the look of it then it's not for you it's a piece of metal with a hole it exactly I mean it it it does what it's to do it it has leather it looks good it feels good sturdy construction the cable is hidden um so if you like a clean aesthetic on your docs you'll be happy but is it rich Corinthian leather it it is not they they did they called it premium leather or something like that so yeah oh only only the finest for the uh points down on the rich Corinthian leather only the finest for the Mofi doc so yeah I I would recommend this if you're on if you're in the market for an Apple Watch Doc and you don't mind spending 60 bucks by all means have fun cool so now I want to talk about analysts again but this time we're talking about analysts and their expectations and the TV that would not die oh geez oh yeah so the Wall Street Journal released a report saying that there had been such a project as an apple television set that is a whole LCD panel and everything and so sad for everyone that project was canceled because Apple just couldn't make it up to their standards for what the they thought it ought to be and Jee monster of Piper Jaffrey has been going on for the better part of a decade almost saying that Apple's going to make a t set Apple's going to make a TV set on every call every analyst call he pops up and says so uh so Steve you gonna make a TV comment so so Tim you're gonna make it to you no you know and he's been doing this for so long he had to make he I you know I have respect because he sent out an email apologizing right he he acknowledged that yes they'd been right that there were plans for such a thing but that he was going to have to stop asking because they weren't going to do it if only Matt margolus has sent out such an email but but Carl Ian still thinks it's happening right he's convinced that the car is happening and he's convinced there's going to be an Apple TV set so I wanted to talk a little bit about why TV sucks and why it makes sense for someone to try and make a better TV set and I also wanted to to uh talk about historically times then Apple has said something is not going to ever happen and then they go and do it anyway well before we before we talk about that let's talk about a little bit more about the insanity of Wall Street because this is a good opportunity to talk about you like that topic don't well you know I write all of pretty much all of our financial uh Focus stories for investors at Apple Insider I I do not own shares in apple or any tech companies so I write about this stuff just you know for readers benefit um and you know it's just funny seeing the way that this works because I mean they basically make up a bunch of numbers about products that they think are going to come out how much they think the margin is going to be how that's going to affect the you know price to earnings ratio in 2017 and they build models based on that and say that I mean it's such non I mean it's complete nonsense it's just absolutely complete nonsense and so you have these analysts to be fair to Gene monster he didn't have models for the TV he was just saying that they were probably going to make one but I mean before the watch was even announced right you had all these analysts saying well we think that they're going to sell watch price at $250 and it's going to have margins of 45 % and they're going to sell 50 million in the first year and they hadn't even announced a product yet and these were built into like models and price targets and all that and I mean it's just it's a it's a looney bin on Wall Street I mean they just they make up stuff to justify the numbers that they have and it's just based on complete bull just complete and absolute Bull and they have to justify their take on this stuff and their numbers so if you look at a guy like mayor Maynard um is one of my favorites he's an analyst for Wells Fargo and he is one of the few major firms that has a a neutral rating on Apple stock and the stock keeps going up and so he has to keep revising his price Target up with a window that includes the current price even though he thinks that the stock is going to go down and so like every it's like he's a cartoon character because every time that Apple comes out with a quarterly result that just blows away expectations he has to find a negative spin on it not because there was anything negative about the quarter or the results because he has to justify his own opinion that's all it is at that point like there is no uh oh I was wrong time for me to change my mind on this these Wall Street analysts just get in a position where it's like well I'm bullish on Apple stock or I'm bearish on Apple stock and that becomes their entire driving point and so when you see this on Carl icon right he puts out this note and he says oh well I think Apple's goingon to release a car and they're going to release a TV and it's going to come out in the next three or four or five years or whatever and then the Wall Street Journal that night comes out with a story and says well actually they were working on TV and it's dead and then Carl ion gets asked about it the next day well he just put out a note yesterday saying he's pretty sure they're going to put out a TV and he doesn't want to sound like an idiot and God forbid he admit he's wrong so he has to just say oh no I still think they're gonna make a TV and it's like you know facts do not exist in this dojo for some reason like why can't we all just accept the fact that sometimes you end up wrong everybody ends up wrong that's okay you can admit that you're wrong sometimes but if you're on Wall Street you have to justify your weird stance on stuff whether you're Carl Ian or your your mayor um or your Gene monster and that's all these guys do ladies and gentlemen Neil Hughes that was an excellent rant I just muted my microphone and laid here and listened to you for a while now that was brilliant thank you but you know Apple has and I was going to say this a little bit later but Apple has historically said they're not going to do something it doesn't make any sense and then they go and do it right and my my big examples were the uh the fifth generation iPod where it was the first iPod that could play video for for years and especially once they started doing color screen iPods that it could eventually play photographs they uh they' said no one wants to watch video on a screen the size of a postage stamp no one wants to watch video in their hands we're just not going to do it and then they went and did it yeah well they have to add a feature I mean at I don't think that these two situations are broadly comparable right okay well they' said the same thing about the iPad Mini right they they' said that that the uh 10-in iPad the original iPad size was the right screen ratio and the right size and that any smaller than that would make the interface unusable for touch it just didn't make sense as an iPad and then they go ahead and show us the iPad mini and I think even that is not a comparable uh situation to what we're talking about with TV because TV is at this point how how old is TV now it's uh 70 years old television it is a commodity yeah or be fine even older 90 years old it's a commodity industry televisions are commoditized when I can go buy a TV at Costco a 55 in LCD TV for a 100 bucks all right there's no yet but yeah there's no point in getting into this industry as a panel a TV panel vendor okay there's a reason there's a reason that you can't buy a non-smart TV because that's the only way to really differentiate yourself right unless you're talking about the extreme High endend the only way to differentiate yourself is with software and that's where Apple's going to go the Apple TV will never be an actual television I'm sorry it will never happen never ever ever ever ever ever will it happen and I think we're seeing the problem we're seeing uh right now the Thunderbolt display hasn't been updated what two years three years yeah right I mean Apple clearly has no interest in selling panels of any kind unless they are bolted onto a laptop chassis so I'm just saying that the opport that the reason why you'd want one is that all of those TVs that you can buy at Costco or wherever they all suck well no one cares because they they don't even want to use the buil-in smart features they want to plug in their Xbox or their Apple TV or whatever and they just want to get they just want to get away from that crap I don't think I don't think features in these TVs are any worth here's the question do you mean do you mean their software feur features suck or do you mean the panels themselves suck no the software features suck the panels themselves are fine I mean but everything else around the panel every part of it around the panel sucks HDMI htcp sucks yeah yeah TV input sucks so imagine scenario which sucks universal remotes suck remotes with 55 buttons on them suck every part of the television experience sucks you try and go to someone else's house you pick up the remote that's on their coffee table and you can't do anything with that TVs suck giant so imagine imagine the scenario in which the TV is just a I mean this is how it is in my house right now right my TV is a dumb display yes I don't use any of the features on my T I don't even use the HDMI switcher feature on my TV right even though it has multiple HDMI inputs that's the future we're going toward Apple has yep they don't really give a damn what you do with your actual television set right they just want to own the part that you actually interact with exactly right and they want to be they want to be HDMI input one Vio no one had heard of Vio before 15 years ago why are they the biggest TV company on the planet now 15 years ago yeah because they sell the cheapest TVs and people just want a TV and it's like well it's 1080P and it looks great and they go into a store and you know consumers when they're in the stores it's like it's like these stores think that we're all like insects drawn to the brightest lights they just crank up the contrast and the brightness oh look at this bright TV and oh great and then you buy it bring it home and you keep the TV for seven or eight years you don't care about this crap and the TV companies they've been hurting because it's a a commoditized high uh uh competition low margin business business and you can see all the trends every year at CES where they're all headed you know just the herd mentality of the TV business so it started out with start with HD right it was it was 720p then it was 1080p then the next big thing was 120 hertz because 120 htz could display native 24p uh content so like Blu-rays if you want to watch movies the way they're filmed at 24 frames per second without the 3-2 pull down we're getting real nerdy here but that's what they did was they go with 120 hertz and they go well people like their Herz let's to 240 hertz and I was like wait a minute there's no 240 frames per second content that can even be played on these TVs what is the point of this well autoo Motion Plus where it gives you that soap oper effect and it looks like crap and they just added that stuff on then nobody was buying TVs and they go well let's go 3D and they put 3D on T well nobody bought that well let's go uh uh you know with Smart TVs and cameras well nobody bought that so now let's go 4K well that's not really working so let's go with 8K Ultra HD TVs and stuff it's the same everybody's doing same Trends every year they're trying to add bells and whistles to the TVs and the average consumer just doesn't care they have a panel they watch House of Cards on it and then that's it I mean they keep it for seven or eight years as long as your TV doesn't die why would you get a new one even not even average consumers right even people who care about this don't care about their televisions exactly you know I like uh my favorite TVs are Samsung TVs because they have that like super thin bezel around the outside they look good but other than that I don't want their camera in their TV I don't want their smart apps I don't want any of that crap because any box that I plug into the TV is going to work better the Apple TV is going to work better than their smart apps uh an Xbox one is going to work better than their smart apps and at that point you're just going to plug something into your TV yeah and that's what that's the market Apple's going for and that's you're going to see a new Apple TV at WWDC and it's gonna have apps and it's gonna have voice input it's gonna have all that stuff and it's going to work a million times better than any TV you can buy on the market right now yeah if there is ever an if Apple ever sells a television set like we've come to commonly think of as a television set if you ever walk into an Apple store and buy the 55 inch Apple 4K television I will do something Unthinkable I don't know what it is yet I haven't thought of it if you're gonna buy if anyone's gonna buy a $5,000 Apple television set they're gonna buy with the expectation they're going to get buried with it because no one's going to want to buy a $55,000 television set every three four years there's absolutely no way if you spent that much money on a TV as an average consumer even $2,000 even $1,500 the the the average consumer is not going to spend that much when you can go and get a $600 50inch Vio that looks great they're just not and I agree with you but I I I still believe that there are problems with TV that suck they're just not going to get fixed because none of the other manufacturers care to fix them they get fixed if you do something with a Smart Box that controls everything yeah that's that's my point is you're right TV is terrible but that's not going to matter and Apple's point is that it shouldn't matter whether your TV is shitty or not right because you just plug our box in and you no longer have to worry about your TV being bad yeah exactly well the nice thing about Apple's box is that Apple's box does allow you to control different outputs for for audio you know you can do AirPlay speakers out of Apple's box and if there were 5.1 or even 2.1 AirPlay that I could handle with then actually that's interesting I need to do something about that I I've been using this old uh surround receiver and that's why I'm cursed with too many damn remotes and if if there were a good solution that handled decent audio that so I didn't have to use the tiny shitty speakers inside a TV I would be halfway there I just want to use the six or seven button Apple remote I don't want to have to deal with any other remotes I just want Simplicity here's here's a question for you guys there's a there's a saying in the uh TV industry of the input one what's the device plugged into input one what do you guys plugged into your input one on your TVs I assume it's my Apple TV but I don't actually know which one input the one that it defaults to when you turn on at least oh yeah my Apple TV yeah Apple TV Apple TV as well mine is actually go ahead as I as I look over my TV is actually on the uh my Apple TV is asleep so my TV is on the screen saver and it's HDMI 3 so do you have uh cable uh no I don't nope and Victor you don't have cable either no see I still have cable because I watch a lot of live sports and so my input one is actually an Xbox One and the Xbox One is terrible it's absolutely terrible but it allows pass through of my cable box and so it gives me the best of both worlds live TV and apps and some horrible voice control so it's just like it's the the best option of a series of awful options and that's the only reason it's my input one I too watch a lot of live sports uh when I can obviously and that has been I it used to really bother me that I couldn't watch uh some sportting events I wanted to see but that has been largely solved for me now with sling TV because with sling I have ESPN and I have TNT and I have TBS but there's no Apple Watch app or there's no Apple TV app there is not an Apple TV app or wow you just confused the hell out of me you're right how are you getting sling to your television when there's no sling on Apple TV because I also have a Roku ah okay there we that's that's part of the problem and hopefully let's solve that which sling very kindly uh gave to me I should note they would want me to note that but that is why I would like to have a cable pass through option on a new Apple TV uh that would play nice with current cable operators because you know that those guys are going to be real sticklers and they're not going to want to give apps to Apple to let ipv happens so do what Microsoft did and just bypass it entirely uh allow it to hijack the cable box and control it it's still going to be kind of a crummy interface you know it's going to be a patchwor workaround but it's going to make it your input one device I would gladly sacrifice my Xbox One to use something with Siri and apps that works better than that because there's no natural language support on the Xbox One if I tell it to turn on or turn off I have to say a specific series of words to get it to work I can't casually speak to it like I can Siri so if Apple can get that figured out it's going to be a killer product it's going to be a huge hit so until I got the Apple watch I would have said that that sounds amazing if only because there will be finally be something in my house that can always hear me when I say hey Siri but now that I have my Apple watch there always is something they can hear when I say hey Siri yeah that's awesome yeah so I was watching this trailer for this movie that's coming out and to be honest I I wasn't sure what I was seeing it had Michael fast Bender in it and they were acting like they're recording Steve Jobs have you guys seen this trailer yeah it's a short teaser trailer it get your appetite wet I guess for this movie so I was watching the people online on Twitter and all of the tweets that I saw were saying things like he looks totally wrong as Steve Jobs that Michael Fender is not Steve Jobs but but they said he sounded like Steve Jobs and I listened to this trailer and I thought what what substances have these people imbibed because none of this sounded remotely like who cares eberg looks nothing like Mark Zuckerberg and yet the movie was entertaining who cares okay yeah internet internet comment or uh movie reviews are pretty much the worst thing ever I mean these people would have had you believe that Snakes on a Plane was gonna be the biggest movie could stopped at internet commenter if you well that's true as well but I mean fast Bender has a uh accent that uh is hard for him to get rid of so much so that it became a plot point in in glorious bastards for his character so uh you know it kind I kind of heard a little bit of his accent in the trailer it wasn't really a surprise to me his accent was all over the place as Magneto in the X-Men movies so um I'm not really surprised by that but who cares he's a good actor let him do what he's gonna do I don't need him I don't need him to look like Steve Jobs because he's not Steve Jobs he's Michael fast Bender playing Steve Jobs I'm interested to see you know uh how the movie portrays jobs because uh the social network was an interesting movie not exactly uh historically accurate for Mark Zuckerberg including an entire uh uh sub text of the movie where he was basically created Facebook to try to get with a girl whereas in real life he's been dating the same girl for like 15 years so yeah but that was a good nerd story right not well let's let's just back up for a second here right it's not historically accurate as far as Mark Zuckerberg says it's not as though the story was just made up from nothing right I am correct having previously been the kind of nerd in college that Mark Zuckerberg was I am 100% sure that I would have done the same thing had I had that thought I have no problem with uh the artistic license taken it's a little weird when you apply it to a real life person and don't like you know change the names to protect the innocent or something or whatever uh it's just weird when you take an actual person and then create a fictionalized story about them based in some truth because there's a lot of people out there now that have seen the social network and have this idea of Mark Zuckerberg based on that movie that maybe is not entirely fair having said that I mean aarin sorin is a great screenwriter um he writes great dialogue uh I absolutely despised and hate watch The Newsroom on HBO uh that that show was such an insufferable uh just uh uh condescending revisionist history uh that was just a it was just an entire experience three seasons of a erant of Aron sorin looking down his nose at you was was was The Newsroom so needless to say I'm skeptical going in this movie because it's someone who really really liked the social network and really really hated The Newsroom I know both sides of Aaron sorin well there's also the side of Aon sorin that wrote the westwing and the first four seasons of the westwing are arguably the best four seasons of Television that have ever been made the guy is talented he writes great dialogue he writes great characters uh fast Bender is a great actor d Bo is a great director there's a lot of talent tied to this movie uh I'm am not interested in watching two and a half hours of a movie telling me what a great guy Steve Jobs was I'm more interested in Hero's flaws and what makes them human yeah and kind of you know Steve's uh shortcomings of which there were many many uh and I'm not interested in a two and a half hour movie that's that's gonna be like a feel-good oh wasn't this guy the greatest person that ever existed you know modern Thomas Edison kind of thing I'd like to kind of get into some of the darker I mean certainly Steve had his his great qualities too but he had a lot of problems and a lot of demons and uh I would assume knowing what Aron sorin does and the way he does the scripts I know the script leaked online and people have read it I don't want to read it I don't want to be spoiled um it it uh I would imagine it would touch on those subjects it's supposed to be based on the uh Walter Isaacson book but clearly has very little to do with it and they just bought the rights to the book just to have a Prestige thing which is fine by me because that book is just a chore to get through it's just 600 pages of just boring um so I I'm hoping that it's going to be good but I'm I'm going in with kind of a neutral attitude about it right so you're going in neutral Shane is this gonna be the first decent Steve Jobs movie I mean come on you are we assuming the Pirates of Silicon Valley was not a decent movie yes yes okay that's the first is this what about Ashton coocher come on I actually haven't seen the Ashton c one I haven't either it looked terrible not only did it look terrible I mean okay Ashton nailed the look but everyone else else in that movie looked pretty terrible and I watched the the picking apart by the people that are still alive you know wnc and friends talking about how none of that actually happened yeah I mean I honestly I'm going into this movie not caring about this movie whatsoever TR I I'll be honest if if if I was not involved with apple Insider it's highly unlikely I would see this movie sounds like a box offic success in the making I would see this movie regardless because Aaron sorin because it's Danny Bo because it's Michael fast Bender I'm a movie fan I you know like the talent involved so I'm curious to see how it turns out if it's a train wreck or if it's amazing I think a lot of the the internet commenters were really really excited about uh Batman potentially playing Steve Jobs because Christian Bale was up for the role and fan casting gets way out of hand and people have this idea in their head of who they want to play these part Christian Bale is awesome at just going insane at random times that is true that that would have been he would have cast and crew right so uh I think that's a big part of why you're going to see some backlash against Michael fast Bender who gives a crap if he looks like Steve Jobs does it really matter does it do you care because I don't care I should clarify when I said I wouldn't I wouldn't see this movie what I meant was I wouldn't see this movie in theaters I would wait until it came out on HBO you pirate it no I wouldn't pirate it that's truth truthfully pirating today is just way too much effort it's way too much effort it's so much yes in terms of my time value it's so much cheaper to just are you kidding me one of one of my favorite things is uh Shane you can probably elaborate on this more than me but in Hong Kong and elsewhere in China and even here in the US and some areas where they sell pirated movies on the street and they make their own custom movie posters and covers to make the movie look more exciting than it is so they'll like mash up like they'll throw like Arnold Schwarzenegger like into a Star Wars movie or something and they put like every like Tom Cruz is randomly on the cover and stuff even though they're not in the movie yeah you see that a lot more in Maryland China in Hong Kong they're much more um they're much more highbrow about it they usually get generally the correct thing put on the cover I want to get the bootle I want to get the bootleg shot in the back row with a handheld camera uh a copy of the Steve Jobs movie with Michael fast bender and they photoshop like uh uh they photoshop like Professor Xavier onto there and uh Arnold Schwarzenegger's on there from Predator that's the copy of the movie I want to see but you know they change they change the the the script for China right you've heard this haven't you no there are whole scenes that get filmed for screening in China that no one else World sees oh yeah for other movies yeah yeah one of the first ones that was Iron Man 3 they did this like uh scene where like uh the the most famous actor in China I don't even know who the heck he is but uh Robert D J like gets on the phone and calls up and he goes we need your help in China and the guy goes okay and then hangs up the phone and they just put that in the Chinese release and people went nuts and the movie made like a ton of money over there it's and there's there's another part at the end where there's a the the doctor taking the trra out of his spoiler alert the doctor taking the shrap out of him as Chinese um but yeah I saw those and I didn't actually realize those were China only scenes until I saw the movie again later without them yeah and then like the new transform did uh like a big action piece in in China uh they do a lot of that now to like cater the Chinese was it in Hong Kong yeah I went I I was watching that part going how did the dinosaur get from way up in the new territories to Causeway Bay to singun back to Causeway Bay in five seconds it's a robot man yeah wow well all right I think we're going to wrap up and if dinosaurs come to Causeway Bay and app introduces a TV you're going to hear about it on Apple Insider thanks for listening share with your friends I'm I'm so glad you were here Neil where can people find you on the internet uh I'm on Twitter at thisis Neil and you can read my stuff on Apple Insider and Shane where people can find you well if I've done my job you can't find me on the internet but otherwise I'm on Apple Insider thanks for listening share with your friends and please consider leaving a review on iTunes eyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to episode 17 of our show where we discuss the latest news about Apple iPhone iPad mac and more we're recording on Thursday May 21st 2015 today we'll be talking about new Macbook Pros and iMacs Apple acquiring a GPS company and of course the Apple watch we have with us this week Apple Insider senior editor Neil Hughes hi how's it going I ne welcome and Shane Cole what's up cats and kittens and I'm your host Victor marks so this week we had on on Tuesday the uh the IMAX and MacBook Pro announcement and what was really cool about this was was that well I thought it was cool was that the rumor was that this was going to launch on Wednesday and I think I chatted you Neil at the time and said Apple just screwed everyone and said rumors says Wednesday we're launching Tuesday the hell with you all yeah was a little bit of surprise announcement I guess a lot of people were thinking that they might hold it till wwec but uh they decided to go a few weeks early and it's not that big of a surprise because that's kind of the same thing they did last year no people were kind of expecting new Max at WWDC no announcement so I think they want to keep uh WWDC software focused as developers there in the audience and uh that's that's the approach so is there anything special that our audience ought to know about these new machines you can't use them and Target theplay mode which is crap all right so there's that one of the complaints that I heard was someone was really annoyed that there was no USBC port on it uh I mean then get a Macbook I don't I don't know like if I think if anything right now USBC is a hindrance more than a help it's not like there's a lot of cables it seems like people who are bitching about not having any USBC are just are us yeah USBC I don't know why I thought I said that wrong are just people who would normally be like yeah absolutely desperately cannot live you know without a FireWire 800 SSD drive you know oh my God why did you possibly take this away it's exactly the same people well I mean the the the proposition here was that you buy a MacBook Pro you're buying it for longevity right it's it's a Workhorse of a machine it's got all the power in the world you know 16 gigs of RAM one terabyte of SSD you want it to last and so the last thing you want is for the New Port to be there and do not have it well then complain at Intel who doesn't have any quad core Broadwell chips available that's the reason that these 15inch MacBooks aren't really that interesting they're running old chips Apple updated the flash it's got the faster flash memory that was introduced in the newer MacBook 13-inch earlier in the MacBook Air um and they have the force touch trackpad but other than that it's uh the same MacBook did it get a better GPU um did they upgrade the GPU Shane I think it was uh like a slightly model wasn't it the iMac switched gpus but I don't think the I don't think the MacBook Pro did or maybe it's pretty much the same internals other than the flash it's really if they did upgrade the GPU it's not a significant upgrade yeah so the IMAX got a lower cost model and they got the the 5K retina model yeah I mean this is what they've done with the retina models uh before with the MacBook Pro um and you'll see it going to the future with the MacBook they introduce a retina model at a much higher price and keep the non retina models available at a lower price so they can hit both Market points but uh eventually they want to get the prices down and get into the hands of more consumers so now they have under $2,000 for a 5k retina iMac and there's fewer uh non- retina options at the 27inch level uh they've killed some of those SKS to uh kind of streamline a little bit the the uh product options we're sort of in a transitional state where everything goes retina yeah eventually everything in their line is going to be retina but you don't know how long it's I mean they're still selling on the Legacy 13-inch MacBook Pro with the disc drive on it so I I don't see the 27 inch um non rtina going anywhere anytime soon as long as they can still hit those lower price points the one they have now is used to cost 2,000 or 1900 somewhere thereabouts and now it's ,700 so the cool thing to me is that the old 1999 27 inch is gone and for everybody who ordered one but it hadn't shipped yet they automatically gave them a 5k the new low at 5K which I thought was pretty cool yeah it's pretty awesome so what what should our listeners take away from this awesome new machines should they go and get one if you were on the fence about the 5K iMac at $2,000 it's probably more palatable to people now I mean uh as of a week ago you would have had to spend $500 more than that to get that screen so uh it's it's a it's a good deal I think um I think that uh yeah I think that that's exciting the force touch upgrade on the 15 in less exciting just because it doesn't have newer chips I think the real take away from this is the old models are now available for cheaper so if you don't really care about Force touch or the 5K display you can now get the same thing you could have gotten three days ago for a couple hundred less dollars and if you're fanatical about the 15inch form factor you're probably disappointed with this upgrade I think yeah cool awesome so the next story that I want to get to is a story about Apple and GPS we've been talking in the past couple of episodes about how Apple's been been making motions towards their their plans to overhaul their data services and Maps is one of those Shane you did a story about Apple acquiring a Precision GPS company I did tell me a little more about that uh they bought a company whose name hilariously escapes me at this exact second um but they bought a company who it's only a handful of people maybe 10 people it's uh you're sort of standard from Academia to Government research kind of business the name is coherent no navigation that's the one coherent navigation I had I had to Google it to be fair it's not exactly a known company I was I was typing apple insider.com as I was as I was stalling with those words um but yeah it's a typical you know uh people came from Stanford and Cornell got together and said we can make a lot of money if we do some government contracts um so that's what they've been doing they specialize well publicly anyway we don't know what their classified stuff is like but publicly they specialize in really high Precision location Technologies uh their biggest claim to fame was obviously I GPS which everybody now thinks is going to be the next iPhone which is a combination it's a a technique that combines signals from uh the GPS constellation with timing data from the aridium constellation and iridium is in lower orb GPS is IM orbit so the idea is that by combining the two you not only get better Global coverage but you can also get much more precise coverage uh they think you can get up to about a centimeter uh resolution which is the same thing you can get from Europe's Galileo uh constellation if you're willing to pay but their centimeter resolution is only in Europe uh the idea of iig GPS is that you can get one centimeter resolution anywhere um but that's probably never going to happen because it's military and the US military doesn't like to give up their secrets that easily so in reality uh what's probably actually going to happen is there's going to be some other kind of augmented GPS that will be in the iPhone 8 or seven depending what the next iPhone is called it won't be in that one they'll be in whatever the next one is so it's going to be a ways off it's going to improve signal and and quality for consumers right it's going to proove accuracy for maps and other navigation surfaces what does it does it mean anything for the industry what do you mean well so this is something that Apple benefits from does it mean change the the landscape in any way between Apple and Android or Apple and anything else um I mean maybe if there's some kind of awesome new hardware that we you know haven't seen yet but barring that I don't I don't think so I think it's just another way to get you know better better data which they've really failed up until now yeah it's important to remember I think a lot of people don't realize because they just use GPS on their phone and it just kind of works and they're happy with it uh they don't realize that GPS alone is kind of an old and flawed system it's kind of slow and and not as accurate as uh as a lot of smartphone manufacturers would like and if you remember back many years ago when Apple had the location gate socalled controversy where it was storing Wi-Fi networks the reason that the phone was doing that is because the iPhone can use that information with a remembered Wi-Fi networks and uh Cellular Tower data and all that to get your location faster because GPS can take uh you know a minute or two or sometimes even longer in certain areas to lock your location and get it really uh pinpointed so a lot of this stuff that they're doing is just in terms of speeding up and making GPS more accurate if you've ever tried to use the compass feature on your iPhone and had to put it in a figure eight to get it calibrated or like for example in New York you go up from Subway and then it takes forever for the compass to to lock on and tell you which direction you're walking in you hit a block in the wrong direction using the maps to try to get somewhere so all those little things add up and and lead to a worse experience with maps and I think that Acquisitions like this are an opportunity for Apple to kind of improve some of the flaws in the GPS system and and Associated mapping technology yeah if you've um if you haven't used maps in a while by a while I in a couple hours and you pull out your maps and you notice that um you try to find yourself and first it finds you kind of sort of and then in a little while you actually it finds you more closely uh that's a symptom of the progression from um maybe cell trilateration which takes the three cell towers and triangulation location uh Wi-Fi location like Neil just said um there's also agps which is slightly different it's assisted GPS it's mandated I think by the FCC actually so that you can use e911 on cell phones um agps actually uses a data call back to the mobile network issue location um but time to First fix for the GPS is us usually 30 or 40 seconds so you as you see the the progression of getting closer and closer to where you really are um that's moving through the different location options available until GPS is actually ready to go and GPS can be off by you know a few feet too which is why sometimes if you're driving your car it'll think that maybe you exited when you didn't or maybe it'll think that you're still on the interstate when you exited it can have that like 10 to 20 feet off kind of thing or sometimes it just randomly jumps and and goes a little Haywire uh and then kind of figures out where it is but interesting uh since you were talking about um uh cellio triangulation and I mentioned as well Shane I figured I would note actually back in the day the first gen iPhone did not include GPS obviously but you could still get location information from the phone especially if you were in a heavily trafficked area with a lot of cell towers because it would triangulate your location and so I could get uh transit information on the first iPhone uh when I was in New York or something like that uh even though didn't have GPS and it would get my location very accurately surprisingly they were also using Skyhook Wi-Fi as the database for that at the time yeah they still are I think I still and that's that's one of the things I've noticed I think this is a good takeaway for our listeners is that practically right now even though this acquisition hasn't had an impact in an iPhone yet um the thing you can do today is keep your Wi-Fi on when you're out driving around when you're out navigating just having Wi-Fi on will make it more accurate yep that's like I have reminder loc I have location reminders set in uh in ios8 reminders and if I have Wi-Fi off and I'm driving around they are wildly wildly inaccurate popping up blocks or even a mile away from where the actual location is if I turn Wi-Fi on they are spot on yeah so now we've reached the watch portion of our program Shane you've got an Apple Watch and Neil you just got yours is that right I just got it on Tuesday indeed congratulations yes it's a very very exciting time for me You' have joined the fold I I don't have one yet I'm I'm the odd man out here but your wife doesn't have one either no she ordered a week after uh after they went on sale it took her a little while to decide whether she wanted it and then she finally caved so it's to get here late June mine mine was delayed because I made the mistake of ordering the space gray sport which uh in the male dominated pre-order world was apparently the most popular option and uh uh those were backlogged heavily but it finally got here on Tuesday will'll just ignore the fact that I ordered after both of you and got it before both of you he ordered it like two days before it went on sale and got it like no I ordered it the day it went on sale and then you got it like two weeks before me so yeah there you go brilliant so one of the pieces of news that happened is that we now have watch OS 1.01 it is no longer a one product have you have you figured out how to update your watch was it hard the updating process was pretty easy um he just launched the app on the uh uh I mean I manually did it I'm sure that there's an automated update if you just let it sit for a couple days just like iOS or whatever but I just launched the Apple Watch app went into the general and then software update um hit the button it downloaded to the phone and then it wanted me to put my phone on the or my watch on the charger uh and then it transferred over and it just did the loading screen just like the initial setup for the watch and it probably all together took 105 minutes yeah cool what what did we gain in this in this release uh uh nobody small fixes yeah I mean they said it would improve Siri and and this and that and the other but honestly I've had the watch since Tuesday I've already had it crash on me at least four times uh and that's including 1.0.1 so that said I mean for a 1.0 quote unquote product um it's still pretty solid it seems like it's mostly the third-party apps that have been crashing and third party glances that have been crashing the watch but the fact that it's crashing is is not a deal the update um whether or not it actually addressed any usability problems it did come with a pretty large load of security fixes um a bunch of standard from what I could see I haven't really delt into it but a bunch of standard anti- jailbreak stuff um it had a patch for the freak attack which was which came out what uh March February March um and some others so yeah it was a pretty hefty security update but in terms of user facing stuff you know who knows right have you noticed that there was a a new view for the uh the day calendar no no I did not notice that I can't say that I knew there was a day calendar option okay so you can you can review and in sort of today you can see the things happening in your day they they updated and added a view for that is what it looked like on the internet and uh there were there were people that were excited about this oh great new addition that was it looked like the biggest piece of visible change in the UI that I could find yeah just for my first couple days with it you know it's a very 1.0 product um there are a lot of things I like about it but they just kind of need to add some more customization and personalization to you know reach that level of what everybody wants because I feel like everybody's GNA want something different out of a watch you know it's a very personal uh product and that level of personalization it feels like they're a well amount of the way there but not completely like for example uh I really like the complications on the watch faces but because there are so few watch faces you're kind of limited as to the amount of data that you can put on the complications so some watch faces have larger areas for complications so you can get like if you choose weather on one you'll get the temperature and the current conditions but on another watch face none of the complications are large enough to show the current conditions they only give you the temperature or if you choose a calendar entry for example uh most of them are so small that they only show the time for your next calendar entry they do not show uh what the actual event is some watch faces do but you know it would be nice if you could say well I'd like a bigger complication here shrink the watch face a little bit something like that yeah and for some reason some of the watch faces can't be customized uh the astronomy watch face comes to mind you can't change anything on that have you what watch face are you guys using right now uh the one I'm using right now is called chronograph the my daily driver watch face if I have such a thing is a customized version of the utility face uh but at this exact second it's hilarious that Neil was just talking about all the complications because right now I'm using the simple face with nothing turned on but the hands not even not even the hash marks around the outside not even the minute markers or the the hour markers okay and what I I bought a leather strap and I told you ear earlier that I decided the only watch face to use with a leather strap is the Mickey Mouse face there you go any other face just doesn't work will not pass it's not accepted yeah you know I I did a informal survey and I was just looking around and it occurred to me that the from this very informal completely unscientific totally bogus survey that the utility phase seems to be very popular because it allows that kind of customization and and allows the uh good use of the complications on it plus it's not uh super complex so my thing about I tried the chronograph face for a while and my thing about it is at that point the UI just becomes I can't believe I'm talking about the UI of a watch but at that point the UI just becomes too crowded right it becomes too complex and the utility face strikes a really nice balance between displaying a lot of stuff but not feeling overly um packed in so one of the interesting things about the chronograph is uh one of the areas where you would have a complication you actually can't remove it it's a permanent feature of it whereas a stopwatch yeah and my wife is particularly excited about that because she's a nurse and she has to do like timing on people like you know with certain things so for her it's just it will be nice to have something that she can quickly access to do a timer um you can add timer uh complications to other watch faces as well if you want to add that but uh it's one of those things where it's a great start I like that glanceable information to me that's one of the best features of a smartwatch having tested every crappy Smartwatch that has come out before the Apple watch this to me is one of the best features that Apple has it just needs to go that extra mile another interesting feature of the chronograph face is that it's impossible to figure out how to get out of timer mode stopwatch mode yeah it is confusing you're right it took me like it took me at least a minute and a half to figure out how to exit stopwatch mode so you you hit the stopwatch in the top right and then it starts counting immediately and then there's two buttons there's a red one in the top right and a white one in the bottom right the red one is stop start and the white one is lap sorry yeah so you can hit the white one to do to a lap and then you can hit the red one to stop start but then if you stop it then it brings up a green button and then if you hit it again it starts it again it's it's very conf it's very confusing so you start some that sounds like map it maps to the same kind of interface that you get for the stopwatch in iOS on the the phone I've never used the stopwatch in iOS so perhaps but but yeah so it's very confusing so you hit the same button in the top right to stop it and then you hit the lap button to get out of it yeah but if you hit the lap button before you stop it then it just does a new lap and continues timing so the interface is a little confusing on that one it is nice to have that feature there uh permanently and I think that's a good-looking watch face as well so your wife when she's using it as a nurse is she using it for for counting pulse is she you know yeah that kind of stuff you know yeah or you know administering medicine however they I you know she's she's the expert on that stuff I'm I'm just the nerd here but there used to be chronographs that were doctor's chronographs and they were they they were marked with pulsations around the dial kind of I think somebody still makes them I saw one recently there are a few and like another thing like the utility uh face is great I really like it and you can make it more less complex with all the detail on it but they don't let you remove the second hand and I don't want the secondhand on there you know and it's like why do you let me remove all of the other details but not the secondhand just little customization things like that that are obviously going to get better over time and going to gradually improve but on the 1.0 it's a quirk I think second because because Braun did not make a watch without a second hand I think they don't let you remove the second hand because they're so proud that they managed to get that smooth sleep that they don't want it to go away I it actually is really impressive to to it it is it is getting that kind of smooth sweep is beautiful uh one of the cool things that they did this week was they they changed the Apple homepage and they did it to highlight continuity and handoff between all of the devices iOS Mac watch so you guys have these have you used continuity with them um no I'll be honest I have't only to test out you know handoff and see the thing for me is that my in my usage thus far right I may be completely abnormal in this but in my usage of the watch thus far the my primary goal is to get the watch to stay in my pocket or to get my phone to stay in my pocket I don't want to have take my the phone is huge all right let's be straight with this the iPhone 6 is enormous it doesn't fit well in Pockets um I I know I'm gonna get a lot of flack for that but it doesn't just you know be real with yourselves get over yourselves it doesn't fit well in the pocket no big phone my je Co are awesome man can fit iPad Nano in there but yeah so my goal with the watch is to eliminate having to take my phone out of my pocket and to that end it has done fantastically well I'm really happy with it and that's the reason I'm not returning it right but I don't think that there is a compelling reason aside from you know the occasional scenario in which you have groceries in your hands or something I don't think there's a compelling reason to start anything on a watchh that you have to finish on an iPhone I think that you know going in or maybe I guess an a long email that you don't anticipate might be one but you know going in what you're about to do and I don't think there's any scenario which you're going to go try and do something on a watch that you didn't contemplate you know beforehand you're never going to be surprised by the task at hand I think any situation in which you normally use handoff or continuity is you know you just start on an iPhone in the first place but what about the reverse Direction start on the phone and you need to pocket it for some reason to pick back up on the watch also a weird hypothetical that'll never happen well I if for directions yeah the problem is I I don't use Apple Maps so because there's no Transit and I live in New York City so Apple Maps is worthless to me but uh you know maybe if they get transit in Apple Maps it'll be awesome or if Google Maps adds Apple watch support or something like that I will bet you that Transit is coming now if we're I would hope yes if we're if we're expanding the definition of continuity which I guess it's not really expanding just using this whole definition but if we're using it to say things like carrying on an iMessage conversation then yeah I use continuity on the watch all the time but I'm thinking when I'm talking about the interplay between the two I'm thinking more along the lines of hand off right where you're taking a specific action to move something watch to the phone to the phone to the watch well I think a big part of the watch too it's not going to be these third party apps I know that everybody's saying that apps are going to make or break it but I mean honestly Shane do you find yourself going a lot of the time to the app Carousel and picking an app from there and launching them um no other than the workout app yeah I feel like it's mostly glances and watch faces I feel like if you have an Apple Watch you're going to spend 90% of your time there and that's why the default setting on the watch is not to restart where you were when you pick up your wrist but to take you back to the watch face because that's where most of the time is going to be spent they do have an option that you can change in the settings to pick up where you left off what you were last doing if you're in some app or something and so for the minority of users that really want to use their wrist like a phone then they can do that but I think for most people it's about notifications and glanceable information grber had what I thought was a smart on this um he was talking about it in the context of the confusing operation of digital Crown but what he said was that you have to think of the if you think of the watch as bifurcated into two different modes right watch mode and app mode then a lot of the the design choices make sense which I think is totally true but I also agree that that watch mode is going to be by far uh the most important I think app mode is just there because people expect it to be there in a smartwatch I I don't think this would have been hurt at all if the only third party support was glances at launch as long as the glances are actionable you know like you can reply to a a WhatsApp message or whatever yeah I I don't think it would have been hurt at all to not have an app home screen you know yeah I agree I agree totally yeah the apps themselves I don't see myself going there a lot and in fact one of the things that upsets me about the digital crown and the way it works is uh when you're there and you scroll around the apps and then you want to go back to the watch face with the glances you press the crown and then it take and then it centers you which you would expect an iOS because it takes you back if you're on the you know a different home screen it takes you back to the main home screen if you press it again so I understand why they did it but I feel like it would just be better to immediately jump back to the watch face when I press it and just leave the leave the app Carousel entirely but uh one of the things I do like about the um digital Crown is you use the double tap of the home button or of the crown a lot yeah all the time yeah because that's a quick so and obviously that's one of the things that came intuitively to me because you double tap to go into a multitasking tray on an iPhone on your watch it just automatically jumps you back to the last thing you were doing and so whatever app you had open it'll just jump you back to that and I found that to be very convenient especially in times like I went for a run the other day and I have my music on my watch and then I was using the built-in Apple running app and I was talking with Shane about this earlier how it was kind of clunky and didn't work well for me because if I wanted to fidget with the music and turn up the volume or change to the next song or whatever I had to press the home the digital Crown I keep saying home button because it works basically the same way but I had to press the digital Crown then go back to the main watch face then swipe up then swipe over to the glance for the music then adjust the music and then double tap the button to go back to the Run display to show me you know while I was running uh what the you know my my Pace or whatever uh so little things like that like they could fix that very e in software just make it so you know certain apps can make it so you can just swipe up from the bottom to get quick music controls or something like that if they add that kind of functionality into the the running app I think that it would become a lot easier but the fact that I had to go through that many steps while I was running was not a great experience yeah do do you want them to give you the option to change the behavior of the digital Crown so that instead of going to the home it goes to the uh the watch face I feel like they could just it's just one step that they would remove because you're you're already at the home on the app Carousel if you scroll away from the center which by default the center is just the watch uh app right fer of apps right yeah and the center one is a clock if you scroll away and then you press the digital Crown it takes you back to the center and then you press it a second time to get you back to the clock I think it should just bypass that centering and just take you straight to the clock phase right I'm I I think back to the original iPad discussion of the mute switch where we had the loot location excuse me rotation lock or uh mute and we had to big debate out for being able to select that in the app yeah settings yeah I I did like the dedicated Hardware rotation lock I use that uh somewhat frequently so the fact that it was ditched on the iPad Air 2 I understand why because you can do it in control center now and all that but I did like having that there it was I don't understand why I missed that button very much my wife's iPad Air no iPad Air iPad Mini 3 still has the dams which why can't my iPad Air too the Apple gods are capricious yes they they hate they hate us they smile upon us not they Smite us for once for once in my life I actually there's something that they killed that I used right that never happens to me I'm like that guy who usually uses it exactly like they intend for you to use it I really don't care that much geez I'm the guy that they're always taking stuff away from I'm still mad about iMovie what happened what about silence yeah I I was an imov 6 or iMovie HD devote and and iMovie 8 and future versions ruined it for me I'm sorry yes I'm I'm that guy I'm I'm always constantly Amazed by how great these apps now are now on my iPhone like I'll do like quick edits of videos my iPhone or like things that used to like I used to have to like break out a laptop and and Photoshop and and like do stuff to edit a photo and now I can do it so quickly on my phone and so much more convenient you know for all these people that say you need a computer to get real work done well what kind of work are you doing because some of the stuff you can do on a phone or a tablet now is is incredible in terms of its convenience you are so right and I like iMovie on the phone it's just it's great iMovie on the Mac has is ruinous for me yeah iMovie on the iPhone is awesome my best iMovie on iPhone experience was sitting in an Apple Store actually trying to convince the guy at the Genius Bar that my computer was screwed up and predictably while he was standing there it wasn't doing anything right so I set my phone up just record the screen for like 15 or 20 minutes and as we were sitting there uh it happened I pulled the video down edited all the other crap out of it left just the messed up part emailed it directly to the store like sitting from the store's Wi-Fi and got my computer fixed right there brilliant for me totally I don't know how dollars Apple spent on iMovie for iOS but uh for me it was worth it that's brilliant I love that so let's get back on topic we were talking a little bit about all these things so mingshi from KGI released their their sales predictions and we were talking about this before we started recording that that Morgan Stanley was talking about them and you're saying they're the same numbers it's just the people read the headlines and leads differently well I think that uh I think mingi quo's note that he put out this week was written from the perspective of uh investors are expecting some huge number of watch sales and it's not going to meet up to investor expectations which by the way investor expectations are all over the map for watch sales and also they don't matter because Apple isn't going to announce watch sales so who cares but anyhow uh you know we can uh we can speculate all we want about the the sales figures but what mingi said was his predictions and he's got pretty good sources in Apple's supply chain um in terms of you know build outs and stuff like that in the past had pretty accurate numbers on uh iPhone quarterly stuff so I put some faith in what he he says he said what was it 16 million by the end of September yeah he said the end of Apple's fiscal 2015 which is the end of September so you're looking at the first uh six months of less than six months right of uh of Apple watch sales 16 million is that a disappointment in the way he phrased it he made sound like a disappointment when I hear those numbers I think that's pretty dang good everyone should have disappointments like that right and then competing analyst uh uh us-based um Katie huberty with Morgan Stanley came out the same day with a note saying she expects Apple watch sales of 36 million in the first year and she thought that was great well the first year goes beyond September and includes the holiday quarter where probably Apple's going to sell more watches than they did at any other quarter because the holidays people tend to buy gifts Apple sells more everything else in the holiday quarter than they do uh throughout throughout the year so uh I wouldn't be surprised to see you know a huge number of sales in that quarter alone so yeah for the first year it sounds to me like both analysts are pretty much on the same page in terms of their predictions 16 million through September 36 million through uh the end of the first year which would be April of uh 2016 which would include uh the holiday season in the US and the Lunar New Year in China I think that's a pretty good recipe for success UC right there if they could sell 36 million watches of a product that didn't exist a year before in its first year that's a pretty good success I'd say yeah I'd feel pretty good about that too but they're not gonna announce the sales so who cares I mean they already said they are not planning on announcing sales for the watch we're not going to know what the sales figures are so it might affect their bottom line in some way they said that the margins are lower uh and it's going to affect their margins going into the future quarters but we can talk all we want about numbers but we're never going to know them and you know the upshot is they make a watch they sell a lot of them and people seem to like them so far right yeah they want to take the focus off the sales and how much of you can see they they set that that right away like when the iPad came out there quick they wanted to announce how many you know we had a million sold in the first weekend or whatever it was with the Apple watch they said we're not going to announce the sales and that Monday came after pre-orders started and the Monday came after the launch and they said nothing about how many they shipped or how many they sold you know they might give an update at WWDC and give like a generic like you know we've shipped X number of watches to date but they're not going to give them quarterly and they're not going to give regular updates because they don't want to be scrutinized in that way well I mean and the the problem the biggest problem there is that the market is not rational right if the market was rational they'd have no problem saying we sold two million watches right but the market is not rational and they're going to say oh you only sold two million watches but your Apple you should sell 70 million watches that's ridiculous sell so sell right so I mean the market has made their bed you know and they must it yeah the market is all growth that's all they care about and you know Apple the largest company on the planet is posting 20 plus percent year-over-year growth every quarter still and as soon as they stop growing that fast even though they're still going to be the largest company on the planet people are going to be obset and they're going to dump the stock because God forbid your company keeps making a ton of money if they're not growing even if it was half that number any kind of double digit growth would be amazing for a company size a company that's on the verge of being worth trillion dollar market cap right and they are they're posting 20% year-over-year growth making huge amounts of profits gross margins are at 40% I mean they could they could not grow at all and they'd still be raking in cash and just you know and that's not good enough for Wall Street Wall Street needs growth so it's it's their own little world over there and that's exactly why they're not gonna announce watch sales just like Shane said it's going to be deemed a failure even if it's not yep so something for our consumers something for the listeners so there are a ton of people out there that have got new watches there are also a ton of companies out there that are beginning to make watch accessories and one of them was Mofi who made a a dock for charging the watch and they sent you one NE tell me about it yeah so I guess it goes on sale um soon it's not yet available it's it's up for pre-order but they gave us a preview of it um I'm a sucker for docs I really like all of my gadgets having a home that they can kind of go to uh not just for charging purposes but just for OCD purposes of I own stuff and I need a place to put it and feel like it's just right there so um as far as docks go uh it's pretty nice it's uh aluminum and leather um the thing I like the most about it is it routes the cabling through it so um you can uh it hides the the USB wire uh behind it and through the base of it and then straightens it out and pushes out the back um and you basically it uses the magnetic charger so you have to use your own charger um you plug in the to the top of it and the just rests on there and the Magnetic uh abilities of the Char of the charging cable are enough to hold it on the dock and so your watch is on Full display on the dock it's a little pricey uh considering it doesn't have the cable in it you got to bring on cable and it costs 60 bucks uh that's a bit much for a lot of people but you're also talking to a guy who bought an elevation dock for over a hundred bucks and I had to bring my own cable for that too so I am used to spending a little more on docs so if you don't mind spending the $60 on I think you'd be pretty happy with this but there are going to be other options out there too and and uh you know you want to find something that aesthetically is right for you the mix of leather and aluminum is is okay it's it's not an ugly dock um it's it's okay looking um and it fits right in with the aesthetic of the watch I think um it looks nice enough and I'm I'm generally pretty happy with it I mean it's it's hard to praise or or hate on a dock if it works so it works so if you had to to nail it down recommend or not fly or fail I'd recommend it yeah absolutely if you're okay with the price at 60 bucks I think I think a lot of people are going to know right away when they look at it and hear the price because other than that it works exactly as advertised but if 60 bucks is too much for you you don't like the look of it then it's not for you it's a piece of metal with a hole it exactly I mean it it it does what it's to do it it has leather it looks good it feels good sturdy construction the cable is hidden um so if you like a clean aesthetic on your docs you'll be happy but is it rich Corinthian leather it it is not they they did they called it premium leather or something like that so yeah oh only only the finest for the uh points down on the rich Corinthian leather only the finest for the Mofi doc so yeah I I would recommend this if you're on if you're in the market for an Apple Watch Doc and you don't mind spending 60 bucks by all means have fun cool so now I want to talk about analysts again but this time we're talking about analysts and their expectations and the TV that would not die oh geez oh yeah so the Wall Street Journal released a report saying that there had been such a project as an apple television set that is a whole LCD panel and everything and so sad for everyone that project was canceled because Apple just couldn't make it up to their standards for what the they thought it ought to be and Jee monster of Piper Jaffrey has been going on for the better part of a decade almost saying that Apple's going to make a t set Apple's going to make a TV set on every call every analyst call he pops up and says so uh so Steve you gonna make a TV comment so so Tim you're gonna make it to you no you know and he's been doing this for so long he had to make he I you know I have respect because he sent out an email apologizing right he he acknowledged that yes they'd been right that there were plans for such a thing but that he was going to have to stop asking because they weren't going to do it if only Matt margolus has sent out such an email but but Carl Ian still thinks it's happening right he's convinced that the car is happening and he's convinced there's going to be an Apple TV set so I wanted to talk a little bit about why TV sucks and why it makes sense for someone to try and make a better TV set and I also wanted to to uh talk about historically times then Apple has said something is not going to ever happen and then they go and do it anyway well before we before we talk about that let's talk about a little bit more about the insanity of Wall Street because this is a good opportunity to talk about you like that topic don't well you know I write all of pretty much all of our financial uh Focus stories for investors at Apple Insider I I do not own shares in apple or any tech companies so I write about this stuff just you know for readers benefit um and you know it's just funny seeing the way that this works because I mean they basically make up a bunch of numbers about products that they think are going to come out how much they think the margin is going to be how that's going to affect the you know price to earnings ratio in 2017 and they build models based on that and say that I mean it's such non I mean it's complete nonsense it's just absolutely complete nonsense and so you have these analysts to be fair to Gene monster he didn't have models for the TV he was just saying that they were probably going to make one but I mean before the watch was even announced right you had all these analysts saying well we think that they're going to sell watch price at $250 and it's going to have margins of 45 % and they're going to sell 50 million in the first year and they hadn't even announced a product yet and these were built into like models and price targets and all that and I mean it's just it's a it's a looney bin on Wall Street I mean they just they make up stuff to justify the numbers that they have and it's just based on complete bull just complete and absolute Bull and they have to justify their take on this stuff and their numbers so if you look at a guy like mayor Maynard um is one of my favorites he's an analyst for Wells Fargo and he is one of the few major firms that has a a neutral rating on Apple stock and the stock keeps going up and so he has to keep revising his price Target up with a window that includes the current price even though he thinks that the stock is going to go down and so like every it's like he's a cartoon character because every time that Apple comes out with a quarterly result that just blows away expectations he has to find a negative spin on it not because there was anything negative about the quarter or the results because he has to justify his own opinion that's all it is at that point like there is no uh oh I was wrong time for me to change my mind on this these Wall Street analysts just get in a position where it's like well I'm bullish on Apple stock or I'm bearish on Apple stock and that becomes their entire driving point and so when you see this on Carl icon right he puts out this note and he says oh well I think Apple's goingon to release a car and they're going to release a TV and it's going to come out in the next three or four or five years or whatever and then the Wall Street Journal that night comes out with a story and says well actually they were working on TV and it's dead and then Carl ion gets asked about it the next day well he just put out a note yesterday saying he's pretty sure they're going to put out a TV and he doesn't want to sound like an idiot and God forbid he admit he's wrong so he has to just say oh no I still think they're gonna make a TV and it's like you know facts do not exist in this dojo for some reason like why can't we all just accept the fact that sometimes you end up wrong everybody ends up wrong that's okay you can admit that you're wrong sometimes but if you're on Wall Street you have to justify your weird stance on stuff whether you're Carl Ian or your your mayor um or your Gene monster and that's all these guys do ladies and gentlemen Neil Hughes that was an excellent rant I just muted my microphone and laid here and listened to you for a while now that was brilliant thank you but you know Apple has and I was going to say this a little bit later but Apple has historically said they're not going to do something it doesn't make any sense and then they go and do it right and my my big examples were the uh the fifth generation iPod where it was the first iPod that could play video for for years and especially once they started doing color screen iPods that it could eventually play photographs they uh they' said no one wants to watch video on a screen the size of a postage stamp no one wants to watch video in their hands we're just not going to do it and then they went and did it yeah well they have to add a feature I mean at I don't think that these two situations are broadly comparable right okay well they' said the same thing about the iPad Mini right they they' said that that the uh 10-in iPad the original iPad size was the right screen ratio and the right size and that any smaller than that would make the interface unusable for touch it just didn't make sense as an iPad and then they go ahead and show us the iPad mini and I think even that is not a comparable uh situation to what we're talking about with TV because TV is at this point how how old is TV now it's uh 70 years old television it is a commodity yeah or be fine even older 90 years old it's a commodity industry televisions are commoditized when I can go buy a TV at Costco a 55 in LCD TV for a 100 bucks all right there's no yet but yeah there's no point in getting into this industry as a panel a TV panel vendor okay there's a reason there's a reason that you can't buy a non-smart TV because that's the only way to really differentiate yourself right unless you're talking about the extreme High endend the only way to differentiate yourself is with software and that's where Apple's going to go the Apple TV will never be an actual television I'm sorry it will never happen never ever ever ever ever ever will it happen and I think we're seeing the problem we're seeing uh right now the Thunderbolt display hasn't been updated what two years three years yeah right I mean Apple clearly has no interest in selling panels of any kind unless they are bolted onto a laptop chassis so I'm just saying that the opport that the reason why you'd want one is that all of those TVs that you can buy at Costco or wherever they all suck well no one cares because they they don't even want to use the buil-in smart features they want to plug in their Xbox or their Apple TV or whatever and they just want to get they just want to get away from that crap I don't think I don't think features in these TVs are any worth here's the question do you mean do you mean their software feur features suck or do you mean the panels themselves suck no the software features suck the panels themselves are fine I mean but everything else around the panel every part of it around the panel sucks HDMI htcp sucks yeah yeah TV input sucks so imagine scenario which sucks universal remotes suck remotes with 55 buttons on them suck every part of the television experience sucks you try and go to someone else's house you pick up the remote that's on their coffee table and you can't do anything with that TVs suck giant so imagine imagine the scenario in which the TV is just a I mean this is how it is in my house right now right my TV is a dumb display yes I don't use any of the features on my T I don't even use the HDMI switcher feature on my TV right even though it has multiple HDMI inputs that's the future we're going toward Apple has yep they don't really give a damn what you do with your actual television set right they just want to own the part that you actually interact with exactly right and they want to be they want to be HDMI input one Vio no one had heard of Vio before 15 years ago why are they the biggest TV company on the planet now 15 years ago yeah because they sell the cheapest TVs and people just want a TV and it's like well it's 1080P and it looks great and they go into a store and you know consumers when they're in the stores it's like it's like these stores think that we're all like insects drawn to the brightest lights they just crank up the contrast and the brightness oh look at this bright TV and oh great and then you buy it bring it home and you keep the TV for seven or eight years you don't care about this crap and the TV companies they've been hurting because it's a a commoditized high uh uh competition low margin business business and you can see all the trends every year at CES where they're all headed you know just the herd mentality of the TV business so it started out with start with HD right it was it was 720p then it was 1080p then the next big thing was 120 hertz because 120 htz could display native 24p uh content so like Blu-rays if you want to watch movies the way they're filmed at 24 frames per second without the 3-2 pull down we're getting real nerdy here but that's what they did was they go with 120 hertz and they go well people like their Herz let's to 240 hertz and I was like wait a minute there's no 240 frames per second content that can even be played on these TVs what is the point of this well autoo Motion Plus where it gives you that soap oper effect and it looks like crap and they just added that stuff on then nobody was buying TVs and they go well let's go 3D and they put 3D on T well nobody bought that well let's go uh uh you know with Smart TVs and cameras well nobody bought that so now let's go 4K well that's not really working so let's go with 8K Ultra HD TVs and stuff it's the same everybody's doing same Trends every year they're trying to add bells and whistles to the TVs and the average consumer just doesn't care they have a panel they watch House of Cards on it and then that's it I mean they keep it for seven or eight years as long as your TV doesn't die why would you get a new one even not even average consumers right even people who care about this don't care about their televisions exactly you know I like uh my favorite TVs are Samsung TVs because they have that like super thin bezel around the outside they look good but other than that I don't want their camera in their TV I don't want their smart apps I don't want any of that crap because any box that I plug into the TV is going to work better the Apple TV is going to work better than their smart apps uh an Xbox one is going to work better than their smart apps and at that point you're just going to plug something into your TV yeah and that's what that's the market Apple's going for and that's you're going to see a new Apple TV at WWDC and it's gonna have apps and it's gonna have voice input it's gonna have all that stuff and it's going to work a million times better than any TV you can buy on the market right now yeah if there is ever an if Apple ever sells a television set like we've come to commonly think of as a television set if you ever walk into an Apple store and buy the 55 inch Apple 4K television I will do something Unthinkable I don't know what it is yet I haven't thought of it if you're gonna buy if anyone's gonna buy a $5,000 Apple television set they're gonna buy with the expectation they're going to get buried with it because no one's going to want to buy a $55,000 television set every three four years there's absolutely no way if you spent that much money on a TV as an average consumer even $2,000 even $1,500 the the the average consumer is not going to spend that much when you can go and get a $600 50inch Vio that looks great they're just not and I agree with you but I I I still believe that there are problems with TV that suck they're just not going to get fixed because none of the other manufacturers care to fix them they get fixed if you do something with a Smart Box that controls everything yeah that's that's my point is you're right TV is terrible but that's not going to matter and Apple's point is that it shouldn't matter whether your TV is shitty or not right because you just plug our box in and you no longer have to worry about your TV being bad yeah exactly well the nice thing about Apple's box is that Apple's box does allow you to control different outputs for for audio you know you can do AirPlay speakers out of Apple's box and if there were 5.1 or even 2.1 AirPlay that I could handle with then actually that's interesting I need to do something about that I I've been using this old uh surround receiver and that's why I'm cursed with too many damn remotes and if if there were a good solution that handled decent audio that so I didn't have to use the tiny shitty speakers inside a TV I would be halfway there I just want to use the six or seven button Apple remote I don't want to have to deal with any other remotes I just want Simplicity here's here's a question for you guys there's a there's a saying in the uh TV industry of the input one what's the device plugged into input one what do you guys plugged into your input one on your TVs I assume it's my Apple TV but I don't actually know which one input the one that it defaults to when you turn on at least oh yeah my Apple TV yeah Apple TV Apple TV as well mine is actually go ahead as I as I look over my TV is actually on the uh my Apple TV is asleep so my TV is on the screen saver and it's HDMI 3 so do you have uh cable uh no I don't nope and Victor you don't have cable either no see I still have cable because I watch a lot of live sports and so my input one is actually an Xbox One and the Xbox One is terrible it's absolutely terrible but it allows pass through of my cable box and so it gives me the best of both worlds live TV and apps and some horrible voice control so it's just like it's the the best option of a series of awful options and that's the only reason it's my input one I too watch a lot of live sports uh when I can obviously and that has been I it used to really bother me that I couldn't watch uh some sportting events I wanted to see but that has been largely solved for me now with sling TV because with sling I have ESPN and I have TNT and I have TBS but there's no Apple Watch app or there's no Apple TV app there is not an Apple TV app or wow you just confused the hell out of me you're right how are you getting sling to your television when there's no sling on Apple TV because I also have a Roku ah okay there we that's that's part of the problem and hopefully let's solve that which sling very kindly uh gave to me I should note they would want me to note that but that is why I would like to have a cable pass through option on a new Apple TV uh that would play nice with current cable operators because you know that those guys are going to be real sticklers and they're not going to want to give apps to Apple to let ipv happens so do what Microsoft did and just bypass it entirely uh allow it to hijack the cable box and control it it's still going to be kind of a crummy interface you know it's going to be a patchwor workaround but it's going to make it your input one device I would gladly sacrifice my Xbox One to use something with Siri and apps that works better than that because there's no natural language support on the Xbox One if I tell it to turn on or turn off I have to say a specific series of words to get it to work I can't casually speak to it like I can Siri so if Apple can get that figured out it's going to be a killer product it's going to be a huge hit so until I got the Apple watch I would have said that that sounds amazing if only because there will be finally be something in my house that can always hear me when I say hey Siri but now that I have my Apple watch there always is something they can hear when I say hey Siri yeah that's awesome yeah so I was watching this trailer for this movie that's coming out and to be honest I I wasn't sure what I was seeing it had Michael fast Bender in it and they were acting like they're recording Steve Jobs have you guys seen this trailer yeah it's a short teaser trailer it get your appetite wet I guess for this movie so I was watching the people online on Twitter and all of the tweets that I saw were saying things like he looks totally wrong as Steve Jobs that Michael Fender is not Steve Jobs but but they said he sounded like Steve Jobs and I listened to this trailer and I thought what what substances have these people imbibed because none of this sounded remotely like who cares eberg looks nothing like Mark Zuckerberg and yet the movie was entertaining who cares okay yeah internet internet comment or uh movie reviews are pretty much the worst thing ever I mean these people would have had you believe that Snakes on a Plane was gonna be the biggest movie could stopped at internet commenter if you well that's true as well but I mean fast Bender has a uh accent that uh is hard for him to get rid of so much so that it became a plot point in in glorious bastards for his character so uh you know it kind I kind of heard a little bit of his accent in the trailer it wasn't really a surprise to me his accent was all over the place as Magneto in the X-Men movies so um I'm not really surprised by that but who cares he's a good actor let him do what he's gonna do I don't need him I don't need him to look like Steve Jobs because he's not Steve Jobs he's Michael fast Bender playing Steve Jobs I'm interested to see you know uh how the movie portrays jobs because uh the social network was an interesting movie not exactly uh historically accurate for Mark Zuckerberg including an entire uh uh sub text of the movie where he was basically created Facebook to try to get with a girl whereas in real life he's been dating the same girl for like 15 years so yeah but that was a good nerd story right not well let's let's just back up for a second here right it's not historically accurate as far as Mark Zuckerberg says it's not as though the story was just made up from nothing right I am correct having previously been the kind of nerd in college that Mark Zuckerberg was I am 100% sure that I would have done the same thing had I had that thought I have no problem with uh the artistic license taken it's a little weird when you apply it to a real life person and don't like you know change the names to protect the innocent or something or whatever uh it's just weird when you take an actual person and then create a fictionalized story about them based in some truth because there's a lot of people out there now that have seen the social network and have this idea of Mark Zuckerberg based on that movie that maybe is not entirely fair having said that I mean aarin sorin is a great screenwriter um he writes great dialogue uh I absolutely despised and hate watch The Newsroom on HBO uh that that show was such an insufferable uh just uh uh condescending revisionist history uh that was just a it was just an entire experience three seasons of a erant of Aron sorin looking down his nose at you was was was The Newsroom so needless to say I'm skeptical going in this movie because it's someone who really really liked the social network and really really hated The Newsroom I know both sides of Aaron sorin well there's also the side of Aon sorin that wrote the westwing and the first four seasons of the westwing are arguably the best four seasons of Television that have ever been made the guy is talented he writes great dialogue he writes great characters uh fast Bender is a great actor d Bo is a great director there's a lot of talent tied to this movie uh I'm am not interested in watching two and a half hours of a movie telling me what a great guy Steve Jobs was I'm more interested in Hero's flaws and what makes them human yeah and kind of you know Steve's uh shortcomings of which there were many many uh and I'm not interested in a two and a half hour movie that's that's gonna be like a feel-good oh wasn't this guy the greatest person that ever existed you know modern Thomas Edison kind of thing I'd like to kind of get into some of the darker I mean certainly Steve had his his great qualities too but he had a lot of problems and a lot of demons and uh I would assume knowing what Aron sorin does and the way he does the scripts I know the script leaked online and people have read it I don't want to read it I don't want to be spoiled um it it uh I would imagine it would touch on those subjects it's supposed to be based on the uh Walter Isaacson book but clearly has very little to do with it and they just bought the rights to the book just to have a Prestige thing which is fine by me because that book is just a chore to get through it's just 600 pages of just boring um so I I'm hoping that it's going to be good but I'm I'm going in with kind of a neutral attitude about it right so you're going in neutral Shane is this gonna be the first decent Steve Jobs movie I mean come on you are we assuming the Pirates of Silicon Valley was not a decent movie yes yes okay that's the first is this what about Ashton coocher come on I actually haven't seen the Ashton c one I haven't either it looked terrible not only did it look terrible I mean okay Ashton nailed the look but everyone else else in that movie looked pretty terrible and I watched the the picking apart by the people that are still alive you know wnc and friends talking about how none of that actually happened yeah I mean I honestly I'm going into this movie not caring about this movie whatsoever TR I I'll be honest if if if I was not involved with apple Insider it's highly unlikely I would see this movie sounds like a box offic success in the making I would see this movie regardless because Aaron sorin because it's Danny Bo because it's Michael fast Bender I'm a movie fan I you know like the talent involved so I'm curious to see how it turns out if it's a train wreck or if it's amazing I think a lot of the the internet commenters were really really excited about uh Batman potentially playing Steve Jobs because Christian Bale was up for the role and fan casting gets way out of hand and people have this idea in their head of who they want to play these part Christian Bale is awesome at just going insane at random times that is true that that would have been he would have cast and crew right so uh I think that's a big part of why you're going to see some backlash against Michael fast Bender who gives a crap if he looks like Steve Jobs does it really matter does it do you care because I don't care I should clarify when I said I wouldn't I wouldn't see this movie what I meant was I wouldn't see this movie in theaters I would wait until it came out on HBO you pirate it no I wouldn't pirate it that's truth truthfully pirating today is just way too much effort it's way too much effort it's so much yes in terms of my time value it's so much cheaper to just are you kidding me one of one of my favorite things is uh Shane you can probably elaborate on this more than me but in Hong Kong and elsewhere in China and even here in the US and some areas where they sell pirated movies on the street and they make their own custom movie posters and covers to make the movie look more exciting than it is so they'll like mash up like they'll throw like Arnold Schwarzenegger like into a Star Wars movie or something and they put like every like Tom Cruz is randomly on the cover and stuff even though they're not in the movie yeah you see that a lot more in Maryland China in Hong Kong they're much more um they're much more highbrow about it they usually get generally the correct thing put on the cover I want to get the bootle I want to get the bootleg shot in the back row with a handheld camera uh a copy of the Steve Jobs movie with Michael fast bender and they photoshop like uh uh they photoshop like Professor Xavier onto there and uh Arnold Schwarzenegger's on there from Predator that's the copy of the movie I want to see but you know they change they change the the the script for China right you've heard this haven't you no there are whole scenes that get filmed for screening in China that no one else World sees oh yeah for other movies yeah yeah one of the first ones that was Iron Man 3 they did this like uh scene where like uh the the most famous actor in China I don't even know who the heck he is but uh Robert D J like gets on the phone and calls up and he goes we need your help in China and the guy goes okay and then hangs up the phone and they just put that in the Chinese release and people went nuts and the movie made like a ton of money over there it's and there's there's another part at the end where there's a the the doctor taking the trra out of his spoiler alert the doctor taking the shrap out of him as Chinese um but yeah I saw those and I didn't actually realize those were China only scenes until I saw the movie again later without them yeah and then like the new transform did uh like a big action piece in in China uh they do a lot of that now to like cater the Chinese was it in Hong Kong yeah I went I I was watching that part going how did the dinosaur get from way up in the new territories to Causeway Bay to singun back to Causeway Bay in five seconds it's a robot man yeah wow well all right I think we're going to wrap up and if dinosaurs come to Causeway Bay and app introduces a TV you're going to hear about it on Apple Insider thanks for listening share with your friends I'm I'm so glad you were here Neil where can people find you on the internet uh I'm on Twitter at thisis Neil and you can read my stuff on Apple Insider and Shane where people can find you well if I've done my job you can't find me on the internet but otherwise I'm on Apple Insider thanks for listening share with your friends and please consider leaving a review on iTunes eyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to episode 17 of our show where we discuss the latest news about Apple iPhone iPad mac and more we're recording on Thursday May 21st 2015 today we'll be talking about new Macbook Pros and iMacs Apple acquiring a GPS company and of course the Apple watch we have with us this week Apple Insider senior editor Neil Hughes hi how's it going I ne welcome and Shane Cole what's up cats and kittens and I'm your host Victor marks so this week we had on on Tuesday the uh the IMAX and MacBook Pro announcement and what was really cool about this was was that well I thought it was cool was that the rumor was that this was going to launch on Wednesday and I think I chatted you Neil at the time and said Apple just screwed everyone and said rumors says Wednesday we're launching Tuesday the hell with you all yeah was a little bit of surprise announcement I guess a lot of people were thinking that they might hold it till wwec but uh they decided to go a few weeks early and it's not that big of a surprise because that's kind of the same thing they did last year no people were kind of expecting new Max at WWDC no announcement so I think they want to keep uh WWDC software focused as developers there in the audience and uh that's that's the approach so is there anything special that our audience ought to know about these new machines you can't use them and Target theplay mode which is crap all right so there's that one of the complaints that I heard was someone was really annoyed that there was no USBC port on it uh I mean then get a Macbook I don't I don't know like if I think if anything right now USBC is a hindrance more than a help it's not like there's a lot of cables it seems like people who are bitching about not having any USBC are just are us yeah USBC I don't know why I thought I said that wrong are just people who would normally be like yeah absolutely desperately cannot live you know without a FireWire 800 SSD drive you know oh my God why did you possibly take this away it's exactly the same people well I mean the the the proposition here was that you buy a MacBook Pro you're buying it for longevity right it's it's a Workhorse of a machine it's got all the power in the world you know 16 gigs of RAM one terabyte of SSD you want it to last and so the last thing you want is for the New Port to be there and do not have it well then complain at Intel who doesn't have any quad core Broadwell chips available that's the reason that these 15inch MacBooks aren't really that interesting they're running old chips Apple updated the flash it's got the faster flash memory that was introduced in the newer MacBook 13-inch earlier in the MacBook Air um and they have the force touch trackpad but other than that it's uh the same MacBook did it get a better GPU um did they upgrade the GPU Shane I think it was uh like a slightly model wasn't it the iMac switched gpus but I don't think the I don't think the MacBook Pro did or maybe it's pretty much the same internals other than the flash it's really if they did upgrade the GPU it's not a significant upgrade yeah so the IMAX got a lower cost model and they got the the 5K retina model yeah I mean this is what they've done with the retina models uh before with the MacBook Pro um and you'll see it going to the future with the MacBook they introduce a retina model at a much higher price and keep the non retina models available at a lower price so they can hit both Market points but uh eventually they want to get the prices down and get into the hands of more consumers so now they have under $2,000 for a 5k retina iMac and there's fewer uh non- retina options at the 27inch level uh they've killed some of those SKS to uh kind of streamline a little bit the the uh product options we're sort of in a transitional state where everything goes retina yeah eventually everything in their line is going to be retina but you don't know how long it's I mean they're still selling on the Legacy 13-inch MacBook Pro with the disc drive on it so I I don't see the 27 inch um non rtina going anywhere anytime soon as long as they can still hit those lower price points the one they have now is used to cost 2,000 or 1900 somewhere thereabouts and now it's ,700 so the cool thing to me is that the old 1999 27 inch is gone and for everybody who ordered one but it hadn't shipped yet they automatically gave them a 5k the new low at 5K which I thought was pretty cool yeah it's pretty awesome so what what should our listeners take away from this awesome new machines should they go and get one if you were on the fence about the 5K iMac at $2,000 it's probably more palatable to people now I mean uh as of a week ago you would have had to spend $500 more than that to get that screen so uh it's it's a it's a good deal I think um I think that uh yeah I think that that's exciting the force touch upgrade on the 15 in less exciting just because it doesn't have newer chips I think the real take away from this is the old models are now available for cheaper so if you don't really care about Force touch or the 5K display you can now get the same thing you could have gotten three days ago for a couple hundred less dollars and if you're fanatical about the 15inch form factor you're probably disappointed with this upgrade I think yeah cool awesome so the next story that I want to get to is a story about Apple and GPS we've been talking in the past couple of episodes about how Apple's been been making motions towards their their plans to overhaul their data services and Maps is one of those Shane you did a story about Apple acquiring a Precision GPS company I did tell me a little more about that uh they bought a company whose name hilariously escapes me at this exact second um but they bought a company who it's only a handful of people maybe 10 people it's uh you're sort of standard from Academia to Government research kind of business the name is coherent no navigation that's the one coherent navigation I had I had to Google it to be fair it's not exactly a known company I was I was typing apple insider.com as I was as I was stalling with those words um but yeah it's a typical you know uh people came from Stanford and Cornell got together and said we can make a lot of money if we do some government contracts um so that's what they've been doing they specialize well publicly anyway we don't know what their classified stuff is like but publicly they specialize in really high Precision location Technologies uh their biggest claim to fame was obviously I GPS which everybody now thinks is going to be the next iPhone which is a combination it's a a technique that combines signals from uh the GPS constellation with timing data from the aridium constellation and iridium is in lower orb GPS is IM orbit so the idea is that by combining the two you not only get better Global coverage but you can also get much more precise coverage uh they think you can get up to about a centimeter uh resolution which is the same thing you can get from Europe's Galileo uh constellation if you're willing to pay but their centimeter resolution is only in Europe uh the idea of iig GPS is that you can get one centimeter resolution anywhere um but that's probably never going to happen because it's military and the US military doesn't like to give up their secrets that easily so in reality uh what's probably actually going to happen is there's going to be some other kind of augmented GPS that will be in the iPhone 8 or seven depending what the next iPhone is called it won't be in that one they'll be in whatever the next one is so it's going to be a ways off it's going to improve signal and and quality for consumers right it's going to proove accuracy for maps and other navigation surfaces what does it does it mean anything for the industry what do you mean well so this is something that Apple benefits from does it mean change the the landscape in any way between Apple and Android or Apple and anything else um I mean maybe if there's some kind of awesome new hardware that we you know haven't seen yet but barring that I don't I don't think so I think it's just another way to get you know better better data which they've really failed up until now yeah it's important to remember I think a lot of people don't realize because they just use GPS on their phone and it just kind of works and they're happy with it uh they don't realize that GPS alone is kind of an old and flawed system it's kind of slow and and not as accurate as uh as a lot of smartphone manufacturers would like and if you remember back many years ago when Apple had the location gate socalled controversy where it was storing Wi-Fi networks the reason that the phone was doing that is because the iPhone can use that information with a remembered Wi-Fi networks and uh Cellular Tower data and all that to get your location faster because GPS can take uh you know a minute or two or sometimes even longer in certain areas to lock your location and get it really uh pinpointed so a lot of this stuff that they're doing is just in terms of speeding up and making GPS more accurate if you've ever tried to use the compass feature on your iPhone and had to put it in a figure eight to get it calibrated or like for example in New York you go up from Subway and then it takes forever for the compass to to lock on and tell you which direction you're walking in you hit a block in the wrong direction using the maps to try to get somewhere so all those little things add up and and lead to a worse experience with maps and I think that Acquisitions like this are an opportunity for Apple to kind of improve some of the flaws in the GPS system and and Associated mapping technology yeah if you've um if you haven't used maps in a while by a while I in a couple hours and you pull out your maps and you notice that um you try to find yourself and first it finds you kind of sort of and then in a little while you actually it finds you more closely uh that's a symptom of the progression from um maybe cell trilateration which takes the three cell towers and triangulation location uh Wi-Fi location like Neil just said um there's also agps which is slightly different it's assisted GPS it's mandated I think by the FCC actually so that you can use e911 on cell phones um agps actually uses a data call back to the mobile network issue location um but time to First fix for the GPS is us usually 30 or 40 seconds so you as you see the the progression of getting closer and closer to where you really are um that's moving through the different location options available until GPS is actually ready to go and GPS can be off by you know a few feet too which is why sometimes if you're driving your car it'll think that maybe you exited when you didn't or maybe it'll think that you're still on the interstate when you exited it can have that like 10 to 20 feet off kind of thing or sometimes it just randomly jumps and and goes a little Haywire uh and then kind of figures out where it is but interesting uh since you were talking about um uh cellio triangulation and I mentioned as well Shane I figured I would note actually back in the day the first gen iPhone did not include GPS obviously but you could still get location information from the phone especially if you were in a heavily trafficked area with a lot of cell towers because it would triangulate your location and so I could get uh transit information on the first iPhone uh when I was in New York or something like that uh even though didn't have GPS and it would get my location very accurately surprisingly they were also using Skyhook Wi-Fi as the database for that at the time yeah they still are I think I still and that's that's one of the things I've noticed I think this is a good takeaway for our listeners is that practically right now even though this acquisition hasn't had an impact in an iPhone yet um the thing you can do today is keep your Wi-Fi on when you're out driving around when you're out navigating just having Wi-Fi on will make it more accurate yep that's like I have reminder loc I have location reminders set in uh in ios8 reminders and if I have Wi-Fi off and I'm driving around they are wildly wildly inaccurate popping up blocks or even a mile away from where the actual location is if I turn Wi-Fi on they are spot on yeah so now we've reached the watch portion of our program Shane you've got an Apple Watch and Neil you just got yours is that right I just got it on Tuesday indeed congratulations yes it's a very very exciting time for me You' have joined the fold I I don't have one yet I'm I'm the odd man out here but your wife doesn't have one either no she ordered a week after uh after they went on sale it took her a little while to decide whether she wanted it and then she finally caved so it's to get here late June mine mine was delayed because I made the mistake of ordering the space gray sport which uh in the male dominated pre-order world was apparently the most popular option and uh uh those were backlogged heavily but it finally got here on Tuesday will'll just ignore the fact that I ordered after both of you and got it before both of you he ordered it like two days before it went on sale and got it like no I ordered it the day it went on sale and then you got it like two weeks before me so yeah there you go brilliant so one of the pieces of news that happened is that we now have watch OS 1.01 it is no longer a one product have you have you figured out how to update your watch was it hard the updating process was pretty easy um he just launched the app on the uh uh I mean I manually did it I'm sure that there's an automated update if you just let it sit for a couple days just like iOS or whatever but I just launched the Apple Watch app went into the general and then software update um hit the button it downloaded to the phone and then it wanted me to put my phone on the or my watch on the charger uh and then it transferred over and it just did the loading screen just like the initial setup for the watch and it probably all together took 105 minutes yeah cool what what did we gain in this in this release uh uh nobody small fixes yeah I mean they said it would improve Siri and and this and that and the other but honestly I've had the watch since Tuesday I've already had it crash on me at least four times uh and that's including 1.0.1 so that said I mean for a 1.0 quote unquote product um it's still pretty solid it seems like it's mostly the third-party apps that have been crashing and third party glances that have been crashing the watch but the fact that it's crashing is is not a deal the update um whether or not it actually addressed any usability problems it did come with a pretty large load of security fixes um a bunch of standard from what I could see I haven't really delt into it but a bunch of standard anti- jailbreak stuff um it had a patch for the freak attack which was which came out what uh March February March um and some others so yeah it was a pretty hefty security update but in terms of user facing stuff you know who knows right have you noticed that there was a a new view for the uh the day calendar no no I did not notice that I can't say that I knew there was a day calendar option okay so you can you can review and in sort of today you can see the things happening in your day they they updated and added a view for that is what it looked like on the internet and uh there were there were people that were excited about this oh great new addition that was it looked like the biggest piece of visible change in the UI that I could find yeah just for my first couple days with it you know it's a very 1.0 product um there are a lot of things I like about it but they just kind of need to add some more customization and personalization to you know reach that level of what everybody wants because I feel like everybody's GNA want something different out of a watch you know it's a very personal uh product and that level of personalization it feels like they're a well amount of the way there but not completely like for example uh I really like the complications on the watch faces but because there are so few watch faces you're kind of limited as to the amount of data that you can put on the complications so some watch faces have larger areas for complications so you can get like if you choose weather on one you'll get the temperature and the current conditions but on another watch face none of the complications are large enough to show the current conditions they only give you the temperature or if you choose a calendar entry for example uh most of them are so small that they only show the time for your next calendar entry they do not show uh what the actual event is some watch faces do but you know it would be nice if you could say well I'd like a bigger complication here shrink the watch face a little bit something like that yeah and for some reason some of the watch faces can't be customized uh the astronomy watch face comes to mind you can't change anything on that have you what watch face are you guys using right now uh the one I'm using right now is called chronograph the my daily driver watch face if I have such a thing is a customized version of the utility face uh but at this exact second it's hilarious that Neil was just talking about all the complications because right now I'm using the simple face with nothing turned on but the hands not even not even the hash marks around the outside not even the minute markers or the the hour markers okay and what I I bought a leather strap and I told you ear earlier that I decided the only watch face to use with a leather strap is the Mickey Mouse face there you go any other face just doesn't work will not pass it's not accepted yeah you know I I did a informal survey and I was just looking around and it occurred to me that the from this very informal completely unscientific totally bogus survey that the utility phase seems to be very popular because it allows that kind of customization and and allows the uh good use of the complications on it plus it's not uh super complex so my thing about I tried the chronograph face for a while and my thing about it is at that point the UI just becomes I can't believe I'm talking about the UI of a watch but at that point the UI just becomes too crowded right it becomes too complex and the utility face strikes a really nice balance between displaying a lot of stuff but not feeling overly um packed in so one of the interesting things about the chronograph is uh one of the areas where you would have a complication you actually can't remove it it's a permanent feature of it whereas a stopwatch yeah and my wife is particularly excited about that because she's a nurse and she has to do like timing on people like you know with certain things so for her it's just it will be nice to have something that she can quickly access to do a timer um you can add timer uh complications to other watch faces as well if you want to add that but uh it's one of those things where it's a great start I like that glanceable information to me that's one of the best features of a smartwatch having tested every crappy Smartwatch that has come out before the Apple watch this to me is one of the best features that Apple has it just needs to go that extra mile another interesting feature of the chronograph face is that it's impossible to figure out how to get out of timer mode stopwatch mode yeah it is confusing you're right it took me like it took me at least a minute and a half to figure out how to exit stopwatch mode so you you hit the stopwatch in the top right and then it starts counting immediately and then there's two buttons there's a red one in the top right and a white one in the bottom right the red one is stop start and the white one is lap sorry yeah so you can hit the white one to do to a lap and then you can hit the red one to stop start but then if you stop it then it brings up a green button and then if you hit it again it starts it again it's it's very conf it's very confusing so you start some that sounds like map it maps to the same kind of interface that you get for the stopwatch in iOS on the the phone I've never used the stopwatch in iOS so perhaps but but yeah so it's very confusing so you hit the same button in the top right to stop it and then you hit the lap button to get out of it yeah but if you hit the lap button before you stop it then it just does a new lap and continues timing so the interface is a little confusing on that one it is nice to have that feature there uh permanently and I think that's a good-looking watch face as well so your wife when she's using it as a nurse is she using it for for counting pulse is she you know yeah that kind of stuff you know yeah or you know administering medicine however they I you know she's she's the expert on that stuff I'm I'm just the nerd here but there used to be chronographs that were doctor's chronographs and they were they they were marked with pulsations around the dial kind of I think somebody still makes them I saw one recently there are a few and like another thing like the utility uh face is great I really like it and you can make it more less complex with all the detail on it but they don't let you remove the second hand and I don't want the secondhand on there you know and it's like why do you let me remove all of the other details but not the secondhand just little customization things like that that are obviously going to get better over time and going to gradually improve but on the 1.0 it's a quirk I think second because because Braun did not make a watch without a second hand I think they don't let you remove the second hand because they're so proud that they managed to get that smooth sleep that they don't want it to go away I it actually is really impressive to to it it is it is getting that kind of smooth sweep is beautiful uh one of the cool things that they did this week was they they changed the Apple homepage and they did it to highlight continuity and handoff between all of the devices iOS Mac watch so you guys have these have you used continuity with them um no I'll be honest I have't only to test out you know handoff and see the thing for me is that my in my usage thus far right I may be completely abnormal in this but in my usage of the watch thus far the my primary goal is to get the watch to stay in my pocket or to get my phone to stay in my pocket I don't want to have take my the phone is huge all right let's be straight with this the iPhone 6 is enormous it doesn't fit well in Pockets um I I know I'm gonna get a lot of flack for that but it doesn't just you know be real with yourselves get over yourselves it doesn't fit well in the pocket no big phone my je Co are awesome man can fit iPad Nano in there but yeah so my goal with the watch is to eliminate having to take my phone out of my pocket and to that end it has done fantastically well I'm really happy with it and that's the reason I'm not returning it right but I don't think that there is a compelling reason aside from you know the occasional scenario in which you have groceries in your hands or something I don't think there's a compelling reason to start anything on a watchh that you have to finish on an iPhone I think that you know going in or maybe I guess an a long email that you don't anticipate might be one but you know going in what you're about to do and I don't think there's any scenario which you're going to go try and do something on a watch that you didn't contemplate you know beforehand you're never going to be surprised by the task at hand I think any situation in which you normally use handoff or continuity is you know you just start on an iPhone in the first place but what about the reverse Direction start on the phone and you need to pocket it for some reason to pick back up on the watch also a weird hypothetical that'll never happen well I if for directions yeah the problem is I I don't use Apple Maps so because there's no Transit and I live in New York City so Apple Maps is worthless to me but uh you know maybe if they get transit in Apple Maps it'll be awesome or if Google Maps adds Apple watch support or something like that I will bet you that Transit is coming now if we're I would hope yes if we're if we're expanding the definition of continuity which I guess it's not really expanding just using this whole definition but if we're using it to say things like carrying on an iMessage conversation then yeah I use continuity on the watch all the time but I'm thinking when I'm talking about the interplay between the two I'm thinking more along the lines of hand off right where you're taking a specific action to move something watch to the phone to the phone to the watch well I think a big part of the watch too it's not going to be these third party apps I know that everybody's saying that apps are going to make or break it but I mean honestly Shane do you find yourself going a lot of the time to the app Carousel and picking an app from there and launching them um no other than the workout app yeah I feel like it's mostly glances and watch faces I feel like if you have an Apple Watch you're going to spend 90% of your time there and that's why the default setting on the watch is not to restart where you were when you pick up your wrist but to take you back to the watch face because that's where most of the time is going to be spent they do have an option that you can change in the settings to pick up where you left off what you were last doing if you're in some app or something and so for the minority of users that really want to use their wrist like a phone then they can do that but I think for most people it's about notifications and glanceable information grber had what I thought was a smart on this um he was talking about it in the context of the confusing operation of digital Crown but what he said was that you have to think of the if you think of the watch as bifurcated into two different modes right watch mode and app mode then a lot of the the design choices make sense which I think is totally true but I also agree that that watch mode is going to be by far uh the most important I think app mode is just there because people expect it to be there in a smartwatch I I don't think this would have been hurt at all if the only third party support was glances at launch as long as the glances are actionable you know like you can reply to a a WhatsApp message or whatever yeah I I don't think it would have been hurt at all to not have an app home screen you know yeah I agree I agree totally yeah the apps themselves I don't see myself going there a lot and in fact one of the things that upsets me about the digital crown and the way it works is uh when you're there and you scroll around the apps and then you want to go back to the watch face with the glances you press the crown and then it take and then it centers you which you would expect an iOS because it takes you back if you're on the you know a different home screen it takes you back to the main home screen if you press it again so I understand why they did it but I feel like it would just be better to immediately jump back to the watch face when I press it and just leave the leave the app Carousel entirely but uh one of the things I do like about the um digital Crown is you use the double tap of the home button or of the crown a lot yeah all the time yeah because that's a quick so and obviously that's one of the things that came intuitively to me because you double tap to go into a multitasking tray on an iPhone on your watch it just automatically jumps you back to the last thing you were doing and so whatever app you had open it'll just jump you back to that and I found that to be very convenient especially in times like I went for a run the other day and I have my music on my watch and then I was using the built-in Apple running app and I was talking with Shane about this earlier how it was kind of clunky and didn't work well for me because if I wanted to fidget with the music and turn up the volume or change to the next song or whatever I had to press the home the digital Crown I keep saying home button because it works basically the same way but I had to press the digital Crown then go back to the main watch face then swipe up then swipe over to the glance for the music then adjust the music and then double tap the button to go back to the Run display to show me you know while I was running uh what the you know my my Pace or whatever uh so little things like that like they could fix that very e in software just make it so you know certain apps can make it so you can just swipe up from the bottom to get quick music controls or something like that if they add that kind of functionality into the the running app I think that it would become a lot easier but the fact that I had to go through that many steps while I was running was not a great experience yeah do do you want them to give you the option to change the behavior of the digital Crown so that instead of going to the home it goes to the uh the watch face I feel like they could just it's just one step that they would remove because you're you're already at the home on the app Carousel if you scroll away from the center which by default the center is just the watch uh app right fer of apps right yeah and the center one is a clock if you scroll away and then you press the digital Crown it takes you back to the center and then you press it a second time to get you back to the clock I think it should just bypass that centering and just take you straight to the clock phase right I'm I I think back to the original iPad discussion of the mute switch where we had the loot location excuse me rotation lock or uh mute and we had to big debate out for being able to select that in the app yeah settings yeah I I did like the dedicated Hardware rotation lock I use that uh somewhat frequently so the fact that it was ditched on the iPad Air 2 I understand why because you can do it in control center now and all that but I did like having that there it was I don't understand why I missed that button very much my wife's iPad Air no iPad Air iPad Mini 3 still has the dams which why can't my iPad Air too the Apple gods are capricious yes they they hate they hate us they smile upon us not they Smite us for once for once in my life I actually there's something that they killed that I used right that never happens to me I'm like that guy who usually uses it exactly like they intend for you to use it I really don't care that much geez I'm the guy that they're always taking stuff away from I'm still mad about iMovie what happened what about silence yeah I I was an imov 6 or iMovie HD devote and and iMovie 8 and future versions ruined it for me I'm sorry yes I'm I'm that guy I'm I'm always constantly Amazed by how great these apps now are now on my iPhone like I'll do like quick edits of videos my iPhone or like things that used to like I used to have to like break out a laptop and and Photoshop and and like do stuff to edit a photo and now I can do it so quickly on my phone and so much more convenient you know for all these people that say you need a computer to get real work done well what kind of work are you doing because some of the stuff you can do on a phone or a tablet now is is incredible in terms of its convenience you are so right and I like iMovie on the phone it's just it's great iMovie on the Mac has is ruinous for me yeah iMovie on the iPhone is awesome my best iMovie on iPhone experience was sitting in an Apple Store actually trying to convince the guy at the Genius Bar that my computer was screwed up and predictably while he was standing there it wasn't doing anything right so I set my phone up just record the screen for like 15 or 20 minutes and as we were sitting there uh it happened I pulled the video down edited all the other crap out of it left just the messed up part emailed it directly to the store like sitting from the store's Wi-Fi and got my computer fixed right there brilliant for me totally I don't know how dollars Apple spent on iMovie for iOS but uh for me it was worth it that's brilliant I love that so let's get back on topic we were talking a little bit about all these things so mingshi from KGI released their their sales predictions and we were talking about this before we started recording that that Morgan Stanley was talking about them and you're saying they're the same numbers it's just the people read the headlines and leads differently well I think that uh I think mingi quo's note that he put out this week was written from the perspective of uh investors are expecting some huge number of watch sales and it's not going to meet up to investor expectations which by the way investor expectations are all over the map for watch sales and also they don't matter because Apple isn't going to announce watch sales so who cares but anyhow uh you know we can uh we can speculate all we want about the the sales figures but what mingi said was his predictions and he's got pretty good sources in Apple's supply chain um in terms of you know build outs and stuff like that in the past had pretty accurate numbers on uh iPhone quarterly stuff so I put some faith in what he he says he said what was it 16 million by the end of September yeah he said the end of Apple's fiscal 2015 which is the end of September so you're looking at the first uh six months of less than six months right of uh of Apple watch sales 16 million is that a disappointment in the way he phrased it he made sound like a disappointment when I hear those numbers I think that's pretty dang good everyone should have disappointments like that right and then competing analyst uh uh us-based um Katie huberty with Morgan Stanley came out the same day with a note saying she expects Apple watch sales of 36 million in the first year and she thought that was great well the first year goes beyond September and includes the holiday quarter where probably Apple's going to sell more watches than they did at any other quarter because the holidays people tend to buy gifts Apple sells more everything else in the holiday quarter than they do uh throughout throughout the year so uh I wouldn't be surprised to see you know a huge number of sales in that quarter alone so yeah for the first year it sounds to me like both analysts are pretty much on the same page in terms of their predictions 16 million through September 36 million through uh the end of the first year which would be April of uh 2016 which would include uh the holiday season in the US and the Lunar New Year in China I think that's a pretty good recipe for success UC right there if they could sell 36 million watches of a product that didn't exist a year before in its first year that's a pretty good success I'd say yeah I'd feel pretty good about that too but they're not gonna announce the sales so who cares I mean they already said they are not planning on announcing sales for the watch we're not going to know what the sales figures are so it might affect their bottom line in some way they said that the margins are lower uh and it's going to affect their margins going into the future quarters but we can talk all we want about numbers but we're never going to know them and you know the upshot is they make a watch they sell a lot of them and people seem to like them so far right yeah they want to take the focus off the sales and how much of you can see they they set that that right away like when the iPad came out there quick they wanted to announce how many you know we had a million sold in the first weekend or whatever it was with the Apple watch they said we're not going to announce the sales and that Monday came after pre-orders started and the Monday came after the launch and they said nothing about how many they shipped or how many they sold you know they might give an update at WWDC and give like a generic like you know we've shipped X number of watches to date but they're not going to give them quarterly and they're not going to give regular updates because they don't want to be scrutinized in that way well I mean and the the problem the biggest problem there is that the market is not rational right if the market was rational they'd have no problem saying we sold two million watches right but the market is not rational and they're going to say oh you only sold two million watches but your Apple you should sell 70 million watches that's ridiculous sell so sell right so I mean the market has made their bed you know and they must it yeah the market is all growth that's all they care about and you know Apple the largest company on the planet is posting 20 plus percent year-over-year growth every quarter still and as soon as they stop growing that fast even though they're still going to be the largest company on the planet people are going to be obset and they're going to dump the stock because God forbid your company keeps making a ton of money if they're not growing even if it was half that number any kind of double digit growth would be amazing for a company size a company that's on the verge of being worth trillion dollar market cap right and they are they're posting 20% year-over-year growth making huge amounts of profits gross margins are at 40% I mean they could they could not grow at all and they'd still be raking in cash and just you know and that's not good enough for Wall Street Wall Street needs growth so it's it's their own little world over there and that's exactly why they're not gonna announce watch sales just like Shane said it's going to be deemed a failure even if it's not yep so something for our consumers something for the listeners so there are a ton of people out there that have got new watches there are also a ton of companies out there that are beginning to make watch accessories and one of them was Mofi who made a a dock for charging the watch and they sent you one NE tell me about it yeah so I guess it goes on sale um soon it's not yet available it's it's up for pre-order but they gave us a preview of it um I'm a sucker for docs I really like all of my gadgets having a home that they can kind of go to uh not just for charging purposes but just for OCD purposes of I own stuff and I need a place to put it and feel like it's just right there so um as far as docks go uh it's pretty nice it's uh aluminum and leather um the thing I like the most about it is it routes the cabling through it so um you can uh it hides the the USB wire uh behind it and through the base of it and then straightens it out and pushes out the back um and you basically it uses the magnetic charger so you have to use your own charger um you plug in the to the top of it and the just rests on there and the Magnetic uh abilities of the Char of the charging cable are enough to hold it on the dock and so your watch is on Full display on the dock it's a little pricey uh considering it doesn't have the cable in it you got to bring on cable and it costs 60 bucks uh that's a bit much for a lot of people but you're also talking to a guy who bought an elevation dock for over a hundred bucks and I had to bring my own cable for that too so I am used to spending a little more on docs so if you don't mind spending the $60 on I think you'd be pretty happy with this but there are going to be other options out there too and and uh you know you want to find something that aesthetically is right for you the mix of leather and aluminum is is okay it's it's not an ugly dock um it's it's okay looking um and it fits right in with the aesthetic of the watch I think um it looks nice enough and I'm I'm generally pretty happy with it I mean it's it's hard to praise or or hate on a dock if it works so it works so if you had to to nail it down recommend or not fly or fail I'd recommend it yeah absolutely if you're okay with the price at 60 bucks I think I think a lot of people are going to know right away when they look at it and hear the price because other than that it works exactly as advertised but if 60 bucks is too much for you you don't like the look of it then it's not for you it's a piece of metal with a hole it exactly I mean it it it does what it's to do it it has leather it looks good it feels good sturdy construction the cable is hidden um so if you like a clean aesthetic on your docs you'll be happy but is it rich Corinthian leather it it is not they they did they called it premium leather or something like that so yeah oh only only the finest for the uh points down on the rich Corinthian leather only the finest for the Mofi doc so yeah I I would recommend this if you're on if you're in the market for an Apple Watch Doc and you don't mind spending 60 bucks by all means have fun cool so now I want to talk about analysts again but this time we're talking about analysts and their expectations and the TV that would not die oh geez oh yeah so the Wall Street Journal released a report saying that there had been such a project as an apple television set that is a whole LCD panel and everything and so sad for everyone that project was canceled because Apple just couldn't make it up to their standards for what the they thought it ought to be and Jee monster of Piper Jaffrey has been going on for the better part of a decade almost saying that Apple's going to make a t set Apple's going to make a TV set on every call every analyst call he pops up and says so uh so Steve you gonna make a TV comment so so Tim you're gonna make it to you no you know and he's been doing this for so long he had to make he I you know I have respect because he sent out an email apologizing right he he acknowledged that yes they'd been right that there were plans for such a thing but that he was going to have to stop asking because they weren't going to do it if only Matt margolus has sent out such an email but but Carl Ian still thinks it's happening right he's convinced that the car is happening and he's convinced there's going to be an Apple TV set so I wanted to talk a little bit about why TV sucks and why it makes sense for someone to try and make a better TV set and I also wanted to to uh talk about historically times then Apple has said something is not going to ever happen and then they go and do it anyway well before we before we talk about that let's talk about a little bit more about the insanity of Wall Street because this is a good opportunity to talk about you like that topic don't well you know I write all of pretty much all of our financial uh Focus stories for investors at Apple Insider I I do not own shares in apple or any tech companies so I write about this stuff just you know for readers benefit um and you know it's just funny seeing the way that this works because I mean they basically make up a bunch of numbers about products that they think are going to come out how much they think the margin is going to be how that's going to affect the you know price to earnings ratio in 2017 and they build models based on that and say that I mean it's such non I mean it's complete nonsense it's just absolutely complete nonsense and so you have these analysts to be fair to Gene monster he didn't have models for the TV he was just saying that they were probably going to make one but I mean before the watch was even announced right you had all these analysts saying well we think that they're going to sell watch price at $250 and it's going to have margins of 45 % and they're going to sell 50 million in the first year and they hadn't even announced a product yet and these were built into like models and price targets and all that and I mean it's just it's a it's a looney bin on Wall Street I mean they just they make up stuff to justify the numbers that they have and it's just based on complete bull just complete and absolute Bull and they have to justify their take on this stuff and their numbers so if you look at a guy like mayor Maynard um is one of my favorites he's an analyst for Wells Fargo and he is one of the few major firms that has a a neutral rating on Apple stock and the stock keeps going up and so he has to keep revising his price Target up with a window that includes the current price even though he thinks that the stock is going to go down and so like every it's like he's a cartoon character because every time that Apple comes out with a quarterly result that just blows away expectations he has to find a negative spin on it not because there was anything negative about the quarter or the results because he has to justify his own opinion that's all it is at that point like there is no uh oh I was wrong time for me to change my mind on this these Wall Street analysts just get in a position where it's like well I'm bullish on Apple stock or I'm bearish on Apple stock and that becomes their entire driving point and so when you see this on Carl icon right he puts out this note and he says oh well I think Apple's goingon to release a car and they're going to release a TV and it's going to come out in the next three or four or five years or whatever and then the Wall Street Journal that night comes out with a story and says well actually they were working on TV and it's dead and then Carl ion gets asked about it the next day well he just put out a note yesterday saying he's pretty sure they're going to put out a TV and he doesn't want to sound like an idiot and God forbid he admit he's wrong so he has to just say oh no I still think they're gonna make a TV and it's like you know facts do not exist in this dojo for some reason like why can't we all just accept the fact that sometimes you end up wrong everybody ends up wrong that's okay you can admit that you're wrong sometimes but if you're on Wall Street you have to justify your weird stance on stuff whether you're Carl Ian or your your mayor um or your Gene monster and that's all these guys do ladies and gentlemen Neil Hughes that was an excellent rant I just muted my microphone and laid here and listened to you for a while now that was brilliant thank you but you know Apple has and I was going to say this a little bit later but Apple has historically said they're not going to do something it doesn't make any sense and then they go and do it right and my my big examples were the uh the fifth generation iPod where it was the first iPod that could play video for for years and especially once they started doing color screen iPods that it could eventually play photographs they uh they' said no one wants to watch video on a screen the size of a postage stamp no one wants to watch video in their hands we're just not going to do it and then they went and did it yeah well they have to add a feature I mean at I don't think that these two situations are broadly comparable right okay well they' said the same thing about the iPad Mini right they they' said that that the uh 10-in iPad the original iPad size was the right screen ratio and the right size and that any smaller than that would make the interface unusable for touch it just didn't make sense as an iPad and then they go ahead and show us the iPad mini and I think even that is not a comparable uh situation to what we're talking about with TV because TV is at this point how how old is TV now it's uh 70 years old television it is a commodity yeah or be fine even older 90 years old it's a commodity industry televisions are commoditized when I can go buy a TV at Costco a 55 in LCD TV for a 100 bucks all right there's no yet but yeah there's no point in getting into this industry as a panel a TV panel vendor okay there's a reason there's a reason that you can't buy a non-smart TV because that's the only way to really differentiate yourself right unless you're talking about the extreme High endend the only way to differentiate yourself is with software and that's where Apple's going to go the Apple TV will never be an actual television I'm sorry it will never happen never ever ever ever ever ever will it happen and I think we're seeing the problem we're seeing uh right now the Thunderbolt display hasn't been updated what two years three years yeah right I mean Apple clearly has no interest in selling panels of any kind unless they are bolted onto a laptop chassis so I'm just saying that the opport that the reason why you'd want one is that all of those TVs that you can buy at Costco or wherever they all suck well no one cares because they they don't even want to use the buil-in smart features they want to plug in their Xbox or their Apple TV or whatever and they just want to get they just want to get away from that crap I don't think I don't think features in these TVs are any worth here's the question do you mean do you mean their software feur features suck or do you mean the panels themselves suck no the software features suck the panels themselves are fine I mean but everything else around the panel every part of it around the panel sucks HDMI htcp sucks yeah yeah TV input sucks so imagine scenario which sucks universal remotes suck remotes with 55 buttons on them suck every part of the television experience sucks you try and go to someone else's house you pick up the remote that's on their coffee table and you can't do anything with that TVs suck giant so imagine imagine the scenario in which the TV is just a I mean this is how it is in my house right now right my TV is a dumb display yes I don't use any of the features on my T I don't even use the HDMI switcher feature on my TV right even though it has multiple HDMI inputs that's the future we're going toward Apple has yep they don't really give a damn what you do with your actual television set right they just want to own the part that you actually interact with exactly right and they want to be they want to be HDMI input one Vio no one had heard of Vio before 15 years ago why are they the biggest TV company on the planet now 15 years ago yeah because they sell the cheapest TVs and people just want a TV and it's like well it's 1080P and it looks great and they go into a store and you know consumers when they're in the stores it's like it's like these stores think that we're all like insects drawn to the brightest lights they just crank up the contrast and the brightness oh look at this bright TV and oh great and then you buy it bring it home and you keep the TV for seven or eight years you don't care about this crap and the TV companies they've been hurting because it's a a commoditized high uh uh competition low margin business business and you can see all the trends every year at CES where they're all headed you know just the herd mentality of the TV business so it started out with start with HD right it was it was 720p then it was 1080p then the next big thing was 120 hertz because 120 htz could display native 24p uh content so like Blu-rays if you want to watch movies the way they're filmed at 24 frames per second without the 3-2 pull down we're getting real nerdy here but that's what they did was they go with 120 hertz and they go well people like their Herz let's to 240 hertz and I was like wait a minute there's no 240 frames per second content that can even be played on these TVs what is the point of this well autoo Motion Plus where it gives you that soap oper effect and it looks like crap and they just added that stuff on then nobody was buying TVs and they go well let's go 3D and they put 3D on T well nobody bought that well let's go uh uh you know with Smart TVs and cameras well nobody bought that so now let's go 4K well that's not really working so let's go with 8K Ultra HD TVs and stuff it's the same everybody's doing same Trends every year they're trying to add bells and whistles to the TVs and the average consumer just doesn't care they have a panel they watch House of Cards on it and then that's it I mean they keep it for seven or eight years as long as your TV doesn't die why would you get a new one even not even average consumers right even people who care about this don't care about their televisions exactly you know I like uh my favorite TVs are Samsung TVs because they have that like super thin bezel around the outside they look good but other than that I don't want their camera in their TV I don't want their smart apps I don't want any of that crap because any box that I plug into the TV is going to work better the Apple TV is going to work better than their smart apps uh an Xbox one is going to work better than their smart apps and at that point you're just going to plug something into your TV yeah and that's what that's the market Apple's going for and that's you're going to see a new Apple TV at WWDC and it's gonna have apps and it's gonna have voice input it's gonna have all that stuff and it's going to work a million times better than any TV you can buy on the market right now yeah if there is ever an if Apple ever sells a television set like we've come to commonly think of as a television set if you ever walk into an Apple store and buy the 55 inch Apple 4K television I will do something Unthinkable I don't know what it is yet I haven't thought of it if you're gonna buy if anyone's gonna buy a $5,000 Apple television set they're gonna buy with the expectation they're going to get buried with it because no one's going to want to buy a $55,000 television set every three four years there's absolutely no way if you spent that much money on a TV as an average consumer even $2,000 even $1,500 the the the average consumer is not going to spend that much when you can go and get a $600 50inch Vio that looks great they're just not and I agree with you but I I I still believe that there are problems with TV that suck they're just not going to get fixed because none of the other manufacturers care to fix them they get fixed if you do something with a Smart Box that controls everything yeah that's that's my point is you're right TV is terrible but that's not going to matter and Apple's point is that it shouldn't matter whether your TV is shitty or not right because you just plug our box in and you no longer have to worry about your TV being bad yeah exactly well the nice thing about Apple's box is that Apple's box does allow you to control different outputs for for audio you know you can do AirPlay speakers out of Apple's box and if there were 5.1 or even 2.1 AirPlay that I could handle with then actually that's interesting I need to do something about that I I've been using this old uh surround receiver and that's why I'm cursed with too many damn remotes and if if there were a good solution that handled decent audio that so I didn't have to use the tiny shitty speakers inside a TV I would be halfway there I just want to use the six or seven button Apple remote I don't want to have to deal with any other remotes I just want Simplicity here's here's a question for you guys there's a there's a saying in the uh TV industry of the input one what's the device plugged into input one what do you guys plugged into your input one on your TVs I assume it's my Apple TV but I don't actually know which one input the one that it defaults to when you turn on at least oh yeah my Apple TV yeah Apple TV Apple TV as well mine is actually go ahead as I as I look over my TV is actually on the uh my Apple TV is asleep so my TV is on the screen saver and it's HDMI 3 so do you have uh cable uh no I don't nope and Victor you don't have cable either no see I still have cable because I watch a lot of live sports and so my input one is actually an Xbox One and the Xbox One is terrible it's absolutely terrible but it allows pass through of my cable box and so it gives me the best of both worlds live TV and apps and some horrible voice control so it's just like it's the the best option of a series of awful options and that's the only reason it's my input one I too watch a lot of live sports uh when I can obviously and that has been I it used to really bother me that I couldn't watch uh some sportting events I wanted to see but that has been largely solved for me now with sling TV because with sling I have ESPN and I have TNT and I have TBS but there's no Apple Watch app or there's no Apple TV app there is not an Apple TV app or wow you just confused the hell out of me you're right how are you getting sling to your television when there's no sling on Apple TV because I also have a Roku ah okay there we that's that's part of the problem and hopefully let's solve that which sling very kindly uh gave to me I should note they would want me to note that but that is why I would like to have a cable pass through option on a new Apple TV uh that would play nice with current cable operators because you know that those guys are going to be real sticklers and they're not going to want to give apps to Apple to let ipv happens so do what Microsoft did and just bypass it entirely uh allow it to hijack the cable box and control it it's still going to be kind of a crummy interface you know it's going to be a patchwor workaround but it's going to make it your input one device I would gladly sacrifice my Xbox One to use something with Siri and apps that works better than that because there's no natural language support on the Xbox One if I tell it to turn on or turn off I have to say a specific series of words to get it to work I can't casually speak to it like I can Siri so if Apple can get that figured out it's going to be a killer product it's going to be a huge hit so until I got the Apple watch I would have said that that sounds amazing if only because there will be finally be something in my house that can always hear me when I say hey Siri but now that I have my Apple watch there always is something they can hear when I say hey Siri yeah that's awesome yeah so I was watching this trailer for this movie that's coming out and to be honest I I wasn't sure what I was seeing it had Michael fast Bender in it and they were acting like they're recording Steve Jobs have you guys seen this trailer yeah it's a short teaser trailer it get your appetite wet I guess for this movie so I was watching the people online on Twitter and all of the tweets that I saw were saying things like he looks totally wrong as Steve Jobs that Michael Fender is not Steve Jobs but but they said he sounded like Steve Jobs and I listened to this trailer and I thought what what substances have these people imbibed because none of this sounded remotely like who cares eberg looks nothing like Mark Zuckerberg and yet the movie was entertaining who cares okay yeah internet internet comment or uh movie reviews are pretty much the worst thing ever I mean these people would have had you believe that Snakes on a Plane was gonna be the biggest movie could stopped at internet commenter if you well that's true as well but I mean fast Bender has a uh accent that uh is hard for him to get rid of so much so that it became a plot point in in glorious bastards for his character so uh you know it kind I kind of heard a little bit of his accent in the trailer it wasn't really a surprise to me his accent was all over the place as Magneto in the X-Men movies so um I'm not really surprised by that but who cares he's a good actor let him do what he's gonna do I don't need him I don't need him to look like Steve Jobs because he's not Steve Jobs he's Michael fast Bender playing Steve Jobs I'm interested to see you know uh how the movie portrays jobs because uh the social network was an interesting movie not exactly uh historically accurate for Mark Zuckerberg including an entire uh uh sub text of the movie where he was basically created Facebook to try to get with a girl whereas in real life he's been dating the same girl for like 15 years so yeah but that was a good nerd story right not well let's let's just back up for a second here right it's not historically accurate as far as Mark Zuckerberg says it's not as though the story was just made up from nothing right I am correct having previously been the kind of nerd in college that Mark Zuckerberg was I am 100% sure that I would have done the same thing had I had that thought I have no problem with uh the artistic license taken it's a little weird when you apply it to a real life person and don't like you know change the names to protect the innocent or something or whatever uh it's just weird when you take an actual person and then create a fictionalized story about them based in some truth because there's a lot of people out there now that have seen the social network and have this idea of Mark Zuckerberg based on that movie that maybe is not entirely fair having said that I mean aarin sorin is a great screenwriter um he writes great dialogue uh I absolutely despised and hate watch The Newsroom on HBO uh that that show was such an insufferable uh just uh uh condescending revisionist history uh that was just a it was just an entire experience three seasons of a erant of Aron sorin looking down his nose at you was was was The Newsroom so needless to say I'm skeptical going in this movie because it's someone who really really liked the social network and really really hated The Newsroom I know both sides of Aaron sorin well there's also the side of Aon sorin that wrote the westwing and the first four seasons of the westwing are arguably the best four seasons of Television that have ever been made the guy is talented he writes great dialogue he writes great characters uh fast Bender is a great actor d Bo is a great director there's a lot of talent tied to this movie uh I'm am not interested in watching two and a half hours of a movie telling me what a great guy Steve Jobs was I'm more interested in Hero's flaws and what makes them human yeah and kind of you know Steve's uh shortcomings of which there were many many uh and I'm not interested in a two and a half hour movie that's that's gonna be like a feel-good oh wasn't this guy the greatest person that ever existed you know modern Thomas Edison kind of thing I'd like to kind of get into some of the darker I mean certainly Steve had his his great qualities too but he had a lot of problems and a lot of demons and uh I would assume knowing what Aron sorin does and the way he does the scripts I know the script leaked online and people have read it I don't want to read it I don't want to be spoiled um it it uh I would imagine it would touch on those subjects it's supposed to be based on the uh Walter Isaacson book but clearly has very little to do with it and they just bought the rights to the book just to have a Prestige thing which is fine by me because that book is just a chore to get through it's just 600 pages of just boring um so I I'm hoping that it's going to be good but I'm I'm going in with kind of a neutral attitude about it right so you're going in neutral Shane is this gonna be the first decent Steve Jobs movie I mean come on you are we assuming the Pirates of Silicon Valley was not a decent movie yes yes okay that's the first is this what about Ashton coocher come on I actually haven't seen the Ashton c one I haven't either it looked terrible not only did it look terrible I mean okay Ashton nailed the look but everyone else else in that movie looked pretty terrible and I watched the the picking apart by the people that are still alive you know wnc and friends talking about how none of that actually happened yeah I mean I honestly I'm going into this movie not caring about this movie whatsoever TR I I'll be honest if if if I was not involved with apple Insider it's highly unlikely I would see this movie sounds like a box offic success in the making I would see this movie regardless because Aaron sorin because it's Danny Bo because it's Michael fast Bender I'm a movie fan I you know like the talent involved so I'm curious to see how it turns out if it's a train wreck or if it's amazing I think a lot of the the internet commenters were really really excited about uh Batman potentially playing Steve Jobs because Christian Bale was up for the role and fan casting gets way out of hand and people have this idea in their head of who they want to play these part Christian Bale is awesome at just going insane at random times that is true that that would have been he would have cast and crew right so uh I think that's a big part of why you're going to see some backlash against Michael fast Bender who gives a crap if he looks like Steve Jobs does it really matter does it do you care because I don't care I should clarify when I said I wouldn't I wouldn't see this movie what I meant was I wouldn't see this movie in theaters I would wait until it came out on HBO you pirate it no I wouldn't pirate it that's truth truthfully pirating today is just way too much effort it's way too much effort it's so much yes in terms of my time value it's so much cheaper to just are you kidding me one of one of my favorite things is uh Shane you can probably elaborate on this more than me but in Hong Kong and elsewhere in China and even here in the US and some areas where they sell pirated movies on the street and they make their own custom movie posters and covers to make the movie look more exciting than it is so they'll like mash up like they'll throw like Arnold Schwarzenegger like into a Star Wars movie or something and they put like every like Tom Cruz is randomly on the cover and stuff even though they're not in the movie yeah you see that a lot more in Maryland China in Hong Kong they're much more um they're much more highbrow about it they usually get generally the correct thing put on the cover I want to get the bootle I want to get the bootleg shot in the back row with a handheld camera uh a copy of the Steve Jobs movie with Michael fast bender and they photoshop like uh uh they photoshop like Professor Xavier onto there and uh Arnold Schwarzenegger's on there from Predator that's the copy of the movie I want to see but you know they change they change the the the script for China right you've heard this haven't you no there are whole scenes that get filmed for screening in China that no one else World sees oh yeah for other movies yeah yeah one of the first ones that was Iron Man 3 they did this like uh scene where like uh the the most famous actor in China I don't even know who the heck he is but uh Robert D J like gets on the phone and calls up and he goes we need your help in China and the guy goes okay and then hangs up the phone and they just put that in the Chinese release and people went nuts and the movie made like a ton of money over there it's and there's there's another part at the end where there's a the the doctor taking the trra out of his spoiler alert the doctor taking the shrap out of him as Chinese um but yeah I saw those and I didn't actually realize those were China only scenes until I saw the movie again later without them yeah and then like the new transform did uh like a big action piece in in China uh they do a lot of that now to like cater the Chinese was it in Hong Kong yeah I went I I was watching that part going how did the dinosaur get from way up in the new territories to Causeway Bay to singun back to Causeway Bay in five seconds it's a robot man yeah wow well all right I think we're going to wrap up and if dinosaurs come to Causeway Bay and app introduces a TV you're going to hear about it on Apple Insider thanks for listening share with your friends I'm I'm so glad you were here Neil where can people find you on the internet uh I'm on Twitter at thisis Neil and you can read my stuff on Apple Insider and Shane where people can find you well if I've done my job you can't find me on the internet but otherwise I'm on Apple Insider thanks for listening share with your friends and please consider leaving a review on iTunes e\n"