The Impact of Diesel Emissions and Warranty Extensions on Vehicle Owners

For many car owners, the decision to recall their vehicle due to diesel emissions is a difficult one. Some argue that they are happy with the way their car runs and don't see the need for a recall. However, in some states like California, this attitude can lead to legal problems. The laws in these states require vehicle manufacturers to extend warranties to owners who choose to have their vehicles recalled due to diesel emissions.

On the other hand, some argue that consumers should be willing to pay a price premium for vehicles with diesel engines, which offer better fuel economy and lower emissions. However, this argument is complicated by the fact that diesel engines are often associated with higher costs than gasoline-powered vehicles. Furthermore, the market has changed significantly since 2009, when Volkswagen's alternative engine was introduced. The new 1.8-liter engine is a significant improvement over its predecessor, offering better power and efficiency.

One of the main reasons why diesel engines are still not widely adopted in the US market is the lack of compelling alternatives to gasoline-powered vehicles. While hybrids like the Prius and Camry Hybrid have been successful, they often lack the dynamic performance and driving excitement that many car enthusiasts crave. In contrast, diesel engines offer a unique combination of power, torque, and efficiency that makes them an attractive option for certain types of drivers.

However, the benefits of diesel engines are not without their drawbacks. One major concern is the cost of diesel fuel, which can be significantly higher than gasoline in some areas. This can make owning a diesel-powered vehicle more expensive over time, especially for those who drive long distances or live in areas with high gas prices. Additionally, diesel engines require more frequent maintenance and repairs than gasoline-powered vehicles, which can increase their overall cost of ownership.

Despite these challenges, many car manufacturers are still investing in diesel engine technology. Mazda, for example, has recently introduced a new 1.8-liter engine that offers exceptional power and efficiency. This engine is part of the Sky Active line, which includes a range of technologies designed to improve fuel economy and reduce emissions. While it's too early to say whether this new engine will be successful in the market, its availability has narrowed the gap between diesel engines and gasoline-powered vehicles.

In general, the decision to own a diesel-powered vehicle comes down to individual preferences and driving habits. For some drivers, the benefits of diesel engines far outweigh the drawbacks, while for others they may not be worth the extra cost and complexity. As the market continues to evolve and new technologies become available, it will be interesting to see how diesel engines fare in the coming years.

The Future of Diesel Engines in America

The future of diesel engines in America is uncertain, but one thing is clear: the industry has been trying to bring out diesels over the last couple of years. However, most of these efforts have failed, and it's hard to find a manufacturer that can consistently deliver high-performance diesel engines without sacrificing fuel economy.

Subaru was one of the first manufacturers to try to bring out a diesel engine, but they ultimately failed to meet performance and fuel economy expectations. Honda has also tried, but their efforts were similarly unsuccessful. Mazda has been trying to do it as well, but they've said that they haven't been able to meet performance and fuel economy hopes for the added cost.

The problem is not just about the technology itself, but also about how manufacturers are marketing diesel engines. Volkswagen's campaign claiming that diesel is clean was widely criticized, and many consumers still don't trust diesel engines. Additionally, the price premium for diesel-powered vehicles can be significant, which makes it harder for consumers to justify the extra cost.

The Market Decides

Ultimately, the decision to own a diesel-powered vehicle comes down to individual preferences and driving habits. If consumers don't feel comfortable with diesel engines, they're not going to buy them. As long as there's a price premium on both the vehicle itself and fuel, it makes it harder for manufacturers to argue that diesel is a good option.

However, some argue that diesel makes sense in certain situations. For example, if you need a diesel for towing or hauling heavy loads, then a diesel engine may be the better choice. Additionally, if you're willing to pay a premium for fuel efficiency and lower emissions, then a diesel engine may be worth considering.

The Debate Continues

One thing that's clear is that the debate over diesel engines is far from over. As manufacturers continue to invest in new technologies and marketing campaigns, consumers will have more opportunities than ever to weigh the pros and cons of diesel-powered vehicles. Whether or not diesel engines become a major player in the US market remains to be seen, but one thing is certain: the conversation about diesel engines is here to stay.

The Importance of Transparency

Transparency is key when it comes to discussing diesel engines with consumers. Manufacturers need to be upfront and honest about the benefits and drawbacks of their products, rather than trying to spin or manipulate the truth. This includes providing clear information about fuel economy, emissions, and maintenance costs, as well as being transparent about any potential issues or recalls.

By doing so, manufacturers can build trust with consumers and establish a reputation for honesty and integrity. This is especially important when it comes to diesel engines, which are often associated with controversy and criticism. By taking the high road and being transparent about their products, manufacturers can help build confidence in their brand and ultimately drive sales.

The Future of Diesel Engines: A Call to Action

As we look to the future of diesel engines, there's a call to action for manufacturers, consumers, and policymakers alike. Manufacturers need to continue investing in new technologies and marketing campaigns that showcase the benefits of diesel engines. Consumers need to be informed and discerning when it comes to purchasing a vehicle, taking the time to research and compare different options.

Policymakers also have a role to play, by implementing regulations and incentives that encourage the adoption of cleaner-burning vehicles. This could include tax credits or rebates for consumers who purchase diesel-powered vehicles, as well as stricter emissions standards for manufacturers.

By working together, we can create a more sustainable and environmentally-friendly transportation system that benefits everyone. The future of diesel engines is uncertain, but with transparency, education, and a commitment to innovation, there's hope for a better tomorrow.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enall about the Volkswagen diesel mess next on talking cars hi there and welcome to talking cars with Consumer Reports I'm Tom mler I'm Mark recton and I'm Jake fiser from time to time car companies have been caught cheating exploiting loopholes in regulations and test procedures but Volkswagen is embroiled in a scandal that frankly is shocking the company has committed to the EPA of cheating on emissions regulations for 482,000 Volkswagen and Audi TDI diesel cars sold here in America over the last seven model years the cars affected include the 2012 to 2015 Volkswagen Pat and Beetle the 2009 to 2015 Volkswagen Golf the 2009 to 2015 Volkswagen Jetta the 2010 the 2015 Audi A3 and the car parked behind us the 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sport Wagon now the implications of this for Volkswagen are staggering the company may be in for up to 18 billion with a B billion dollars in fines the CEO of Volkswagen Martin wintercorn has resigned Volkswagen has stopped sale on any remaining TDI and they're not selling used tdis either 2016 Volkswagen TDI are not certified for sale Consumer Reports has suspended their recommendation of the TDI Jetta and pad but more important to us here at consumer reports are the consequences to the consumer what does this mean for resale value performance reliability and frankly the fact that Volkswagen committed fraud through deceptive advertising before we get into this if you own one of these cars we'd love to hear from you how is this issue affecting you how do you feel about it giving us this information helps Consumer Reports better fight for you we'd love you to go to our website that's at consumers union.org ew hyphen stories now Mark a big part of the irony here is that Volkswagen build these cars as clean diesel and so I think you have to go back to when these decisions were originally made and if we're talking sort of early 2000s when the vehicles were being developed this was sort of the the height of hybrid hype and Toyota was tearing up the sort of we care about the Earth and you can get great fuel economy and it was really kind of trumping the the Green Planet game and Volks 's response was to come up with clean diesel which on its face seemed like the Holy Grail you got great fuel economy and you still got performance I think a lot of pre- aspires were sort of well I'm doing good for the planet but you know you floor the gas pedal and nothing much happens I mean diesel had a previous perception of being it is a fair it is a dirtier technology you have to do a lot more work in order to clean up diesel to give it to acceptable pollution levels and a lot of Americans remember that from the 70s from from the previous generation VW diesels as well as oldmobile diesels these were terrible terrible vehicles and I think there's a lot of Legacy memory that Americans had so Volkswagen had a really big challenge to try and convince Americans that clean diesel really was clean and clearly they convinced 482,000 of us and many in the media might I add uh that this was the case right Jake well I'm one of them in the media I suppose so um yeah one of our favorite cars has been the Volkswagen diesel and and stick shift I don't know how many people have recommended that vehicle to and a lot of them bought it and um you know it's really unfortunate that they were kind of sold of bill of goods I mean we we tested these vehicles they perform great the fuel economy is great um you know as as Mark says I mean you compare it to a Prius I mean this is the the car enthusiasts hybrid right it's the car enthusiasts way of of being clean and carrying by the environment and not using a lot of foreign oil and um it's really really disappointing to find out that the whole time they've had these cars and a lot of these people drive a lot of miles right I mean this has always been vehicles that do great on the highway in terms of fuel economy there's all these reports of people getting 50 miles per gallon and study State cruising always beating the EPA numbers always beating the EPA numbers um and now we kind of understand why because truly those EPA numbers were done on a Dyno and these these EPA numbers may have been done in that state where the emissions controls were actually functioning so let's get into some of the technical parts of this Mark big picture what did Volkswagen do wrong it essentially rigged the test uh you put the car on the EPA Dyno and it functioned cleanly it told all the computers that this car completely passes all emissions test and then because cars when they're being tested for emissions and fuel economy are not being tested on the road they're being tested inside in a climate controlled lab to very very set situation of parameters correct and then when Volkswagen took the car off the rig and sold it to customers what they were experiencing on the road in terms of emissions was totally different sometimes 40 times the EPA standard for nitrogen oxides which are uh it's bad for the planet it leads to asthma and other respiratory problems um it's pretty dirty stuff so so the problem that Volkswagen has here is for one it has a polluting car that it said was clean but the real problem is almost more of public relations because it had True Believers it had people who really thought that this car was the Holy Grail of clean performance and the Betrayal is almost a bigger problem for Volkswagen than the actual Commission of the error MH Jake well absolutely I mean it's about it's about trust it's about you know there's so many enthusiasts about these cars many people really you know care about these cars I mean there's huge clubs I mean you go online there's VW Vortex there's TDI clubs I mean people really believe in these things and you know you have to be able to trust that company I mean if they're lying about you know what they're doing in terms of mission are they lying somewhere else is there some other test that they're cheating and and I think that's really you know important when you're buying the car we've seen stuff like this before I mean you look what you know Hyundai went and they misstated or or rigged the system for the uh for the fuel economy by 1 miles per gallon and and that really came and hurt them temporarily but this it's kind of greater than that right technically how did Volkswagen do this how would how would they have how would they have rigged the system well I mean the truth is that when you test these vehicles on a d um you have to tell the vehicle that it's on the datometer because you know as you know I mean all the cars have stability control they're monitoring their wheel speed and if you put the front wheels on a roller the car kind of says this ain't right because the back whe the back wheels aren't turning so it thinks it's slipping right I mean think this through right if you get into snow and the front wheel starts spinning what does your car do it cuts back it cuts back power so how possibly could you do this test without telling the car something is going on so there is a way to go and tell every one of these cars that you are now on a dynometer and you're being tested what they have chosen to do is said well since we know it's being tested let's go change the way this car operates and they put it into a way that it actually does meet those emissions but once you get it off the dynometer you go to normal mode now it's polluting more right okay so Volkswagen did this they've admitted to doing this so now consumers have these cars there's a stigma floating around them uh for years one of the Hallmarks of Volkswagen TDI was that the TDI always had better resale value you know they were always more in demand than the gasoline powered cars so now resale value is a question but I mean there's also questions of what's going to happen after the recall okay well what will the recall be no one knows what the recall will be even to fix these cars well let's let's first talk about resale value and transaction price because you could always get a screaming deal on a golf for Jetta regular gas power but the Diesel's always carried this premium $3,000 or depending I mean and that was just the sticker price starting at a thousand maybe a bit more but but once you started getting into the actual transaction price out the door 3,000 4,000 5,000 depending on the trim level Etc so people are already paying a premium for this they're paying a premium for the diesel fuel over regular gasoline so this is this is an added expense over years and there were all these models constructed over how many miles a year or over the life of a car do you need to drive a diesel to pay off the price difference well if all of a sudden because of the way the car is operating you know if they have to do a a recall repair to this vehicle that changes that Dynamic where if all of a sudden the fuel economy that the diesel gets is more on par with a gasoline car or even if it's just lower by a few miles per gallon you know all of a sudden that changes the dynamic of you know how you're paying all this premium for this car and it's not really giving you a backend benefit um which then makes the resale value suffer so all of a sudden now you started a higher price and you ended at a higher price but now you're starting at a higher price and are ending at a lower price because who's going to want to pay that extra money for a diesel when it really doesn't do all that much more than a gas car and I think that's a big exposure for Volkswagen there'll probably be a class action suit claiming dimition of value and that's where Volkswagen owners may have a chance of getting some compensation so there's even technical issues of can these cars be sold can these cars be registered well obviously they're holding the sales on them but there there's not going to be a chance where they're actually going to penalize the owners of these cars they did nothing wrong so the people who own these cars are still going to be able to drive them um the question is about that fix and and from a technical standpoint when you're designing an engine right there's a lot of different things you choose and you're looking at there's there's fuel efficiency there is reliability there is emissions um and there's power and all of these things you can't have it all so you make compromises and whatever you're doing and if you go and say well we're going to cheat over here you can get a car that gets better fuel efficiency or better performance if you're going to get those the efficiency back you have to pull it from somewhere else and you know to Mark's point is we don't know what that's going to look like now you know again to get into the technical side of it now this car behind us has what's called a Ura treatment system okay this was added in 2015 a lot of these cars out there don't have that and and it is unclear on how they're going to actually be able to make those emissions without that system system maybe they have to retrofit it that could be very expensive if they don't how else are they going to to compromise the performance of this vehicle and the bigger issue is looking forward if you have to compromise diesels that much or to make them meet these emissions we have looked at the test results that we have on gasoline engines they're phenomenal lately right and we got midsize getting 32 miles per gallon we got smaller cars getting getting even greater um is that Delta worth it what does that mean for the future of diesels right because I mean you're looking at a Mazda 6 which is a good sized midsize sedan getting 32 mgon overall most Volkswagen TDI are floating around upper 30s you know 36 37 around there is that Delta worth it for the added cost that you you mentioned that you you've got more to pay Diesel's typically more expensive also like you said we don't know what the fix is yet right now floating around is anything from the idea that it could be a simple remapping of air fuel mixtures which kind of would lead to the question why couldn't Volkswagen have just done that anyway because they tried to fix earlier last year that didn't seem to work um all the way to those cars that do not have Ura systems retrofitting those which is thousands of dollars worth of Parts uh do they even comply then you know does Volkswagen wind up buying back cars this is still early days in this whole Scandal and we have to it'll be interesting to see what the fixes are and how consumers are being made right you know for these cars well and this is the real question is how does the consumer be made right and and and yeah okay say they go and they put in this Uria treatment system and they retrofit as it you know is it going to meet emissions and what kind of durability is this I mean if I was an owner of this car I would want a long a warranty on this because if they go and do this heavy rework to my car and I don't know what's going to happen but if that's it I want I want some warranty that that you know 6 months down the road the thing's not malfunctioning and I'm I'm for it a lot of these cars are out of warranty yeah I mean I also want to warranty that if they change that air fuel ratio or they change how often the emission systems is is working that okay so I'm I'm firing a regenerative system I'm cleaning out the Catalyst more often so I'm sending more fuel through it am I coking up Pistons am I going to burnout catalytic converters am I using three times as much Ura as I was using before I want all this stuff warrantied sure and federal emission standards do require these systems to last for a certain Peri perod of time and who knows if they would do that after the fix so this brings us kind of to the question is diesel done in America oh we'll get to that in a second but I think for a lot of people this is this is sparking okay so there's a lot of emotions behind this people feel betrayed but they're also worried about the the issues that we just brought up and they may just be saying I'm done I want to get rid of it um and so the question comes up can you sell your TDI right now and the answer at least in California is yes the California resources board has said they're not going to stand in the way of either registering the car or selling the car because technically the car does meet emissions but that's that's their way of that's that's their long way of saying we need to wait to see what the recall repair is until that time they're just going to leave it in state and so you can transfer uh title and ownership and all that they're not going to stand in the way once the recall is announced there is a window of time in which they still will allow you to sell it because you don't have to have all recall repairs performed on a car when you sell it that's a different issue that we want yeah that's but uh once it reaches a certain number of months then you must have had the recall performed uh if it involves emissions from a carb standpoint so if you're really worried about your your TDI and you just are like I'm I'm done with it you can sell it but that you know you rais an interesting point because TDI owners many of them have enjoyed the fact they've been getting several miles per gallon better than the EPA numbers now keep in mind those EPA fuel e economy numbers would have been done with the car running emissions so it's likely that after a recall you're going to lose a couple miles per gallon uh I've seen in those forums that you mentioned earlier plenty of people are like I'm not going to get the recall done because I'm happy with the way my car runs but in some states like California that can cause you legal problems well and also I think there's an opportunity for whatever the whatever the fix is is just to make it so it it's it's in the consumer's interest to get it done I mean okay fine well I I might lose one mile per gallon or 2 mes per gallon whatever it is but um but now they're extending a warranty for me and now maybe there's a um they're they're refunding me something you know maybe there's there's a cash settlement for those people that get it done so I think you know they really have to it's more about just fixing the cars I mean you have a 2009 car and you've been driving it for 200,000 miles and you know and maybe you bought it because you care about the and you're kind of little racked off because it's not so clean it's not so clean um they they need to make restitution to those owners that are just farther than saying oh it's it's fixed now mhm okay is diesel done in America uh is this on the C I wouldn't call it a mortal blow there are other manufacturers who have diesels but a lot of Manufacturers have been trying to bring out diesels over the last couple years and uh they've all been stillborn I mean Subaru tried to bring it out didn't happen Honda tried to bring it they H to mentioned bringing out triy didn't Mazda has been trying to do it and they've said that they haven't been able to meet performance and fuel economy hopes for the added cost which kind of points to this whole issue because they were trying to do it without Ura too so you know other than truck other than you know like a Ram diesel or Grand Cherokee or Mercedes uh SUV diesel does diesel make sense can diesel work well okay the Market's going to decide and and for all the marketing that automakers can do proclaiming how great diesel is if Americans don't feel comfortable with it they're not going to buy it and as long as it's a price premium not only on the vehicle itself but on the fuel that makes it a really hard argument and the one thing that Volkswagen had on its side was that they were saying no it's clean well if diesel is just as dirty as gas and the the the price Delta to get your money back from buying the vehicle is is that much longer it makes it a really hard retail decision for for a consumer um ites it you know unless you need a diesel for a specific purpose like you're towing a boat or you just really love that low-end torque you know what's what's the argument to be made to get it you know the the other big piece is the market has changed so back in 2009 um Volkswagen's alternative engine was that 2.5 L engine which was yeah it was kind of a boat anchor it was not a competitive motor um now the new engine the 1.8 that is a silky smooth power powerful and efficient engine well you also had a world of less compelling hybrids too of you know the pretty much you had you know the Prius and maybe the Camry Hybrid you didn't have these cars like the Fusion Hybrid or the cmax hybrid that were Dynamic to drive as well as offering good fuel economy with an alternative to DEC well I mean with hybrids I think there's kind of another segment you know I'm thinking about it just in terms of when you look at the alternative of of a diesel versus a gas powered that Delta in terms of fuel economy has really narrowed I mean we talked about Mazda Mazda talked about how they're going have a Mazda 6 with the diesel suddenly they got Sky Active and they're getting 32 m per gallon of their gas engine which is a silky smooth powerful engine that's delivering great great performance emissions right I hope so I hope so and fuel economy so what we've seen over the last five years I mean it really hasn't been that that far we've seen new technologies in gasoline that just brought them so much further direct injection multi speeed Transmissions um high compression when it comes to Sky Active what Mazda is doing that that Gap is narrow so much that you know again we've talked about in podcast I've said I don't know if I'd go for a diesel and people tweeted me and said what are you talking about you always said diesels were good I mean the Gap has changed because the market has changed right so that's going to wrap it up for this episode of the podcast we're going to keep on following the story as always please come to consumerreports.org and we'll give you the latest and thank you for watching we'll see you next time timeall about the Volkswagen diesel mess next on talking cars hi there and welcome to talking cars with Consumer Reports I'm Tom mler I'm Mark recton and I'm Jake fiser from time to time car companies have been caught cheating exploiting loopholes in regulations and test procedures but Volkswagen is embroiled in a scandal that frankly is shocking the company has committed to the EPA of cheating on emissions regulations for 482,000 Volkswagen and Audi TDI diesel cars sold here in America over the last seven model years the cars affected include the 2012 to 2015 Volkswagen Pat and Beetle the 2009 to 2015 Volkswagen Golf the 2009 to 2015 Volkswagen Jetta the 2010 the 2015 Audi A3 and the car parked behind us the 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sport Wagon now the implications of this for Volkswagen are staggering the company may be in for up to 18 billion with a B billion dollars in fines the CEO of Volkswagen Martin wintercorn has resigned Volkswagen has stopped sale on any remaining TDI and they're not selling used tdis either 2016 Volkswagen TDI are not certified for sale Consumer Reports has suspended their recommendation of the TDI Jetta and pad but more important to us here at consumer reports are the consequences to the consumer what does this mean for resale value performance reliability and frankly the fact that Volkswagen committed fraud through deceptive advertising before we get into this if you own one of these cars we'd love to hear from you how is this issue affecting you how do you feel about it giving us this information helps Consumer Reports better fight for you we'd love you to go to our website that's at consumers union.org ew hyphen stories now Mark a big part of the irony here is that Volkswagen build these cars as clean diesel and so I think you have to go back to when these decisions were originally made and if we're talking sort of early 2000s when the vehicles were being developed this was sort of the the height of hybrid hype and Toyota was tearing up the sort of we care about the Earth and you can get great fuel economy and it was really kind of trumping the the Green Planet game and Volks 's response was to come up with clean diesel which on its face seemed like the Holy Grail you got great fuel economy and you still got performance I think a lot of pre- aspires were sort of well I'm doing good for the planet but you know you floor the gas pedal and nothing much happens I mean diesel had a previous perception of being it is a fair it is a dirtier technology you have to do a lot more work in order to clean up diesel to give it to acceptable pollution levels and a lot of Americans remember that from the 70s from from the previous generation VW diesels as well as oldmobile diesels these were terrible terrible vehicles and I think there's a lot of Legacy memory that Americans had so Volkswagen had a really big challenge to try and convince Americans that clean diesel really was clean and clearly they convinced 482,000 of us and many in the media might I add uh that this was the case right Jake well I'm one of them in the media I suppose so um yeah one of our favorite cars has been the Volkswagen diesel and and stick shift I don't know how many people have recommended that vehicle to and a lot of them bought it and um you know it's really unfortunate that they were kind of sold of bill of goods I mean we we tested these vehicles they perform great the fuel economy is great um you know as as Mark says I mean you compare it to a Prius I mean this is the the car enthusiasts hybrid right it's the car enthusiasts way of of being clean and carrying by the environment and not using a lot of foreign oil and um it's really really disappointing to find out that the whole time they've had these cars and a lot of these people drive a lot of miles right I mean this has always been vehicles that do great on the highway in terms of fuel economy there's all these reports of people getting 50 miles per gallon and study State cruising always beating the EPA numbers always beating the EPA numbers um and now we kind of understand why because truly those EPA numbers were done on a Dyno and these these EPA numbers may have been done in that state where the emissions controls were actually functioning so let's get into some of the technical parts of this Mark big picture what did Volkswagen do wrong it essentially rigged the test uh you put the car on the EPA Dyno and it functioned cleanly it told all the computers that this car completely passes all emissions test and then because cars when they're being tested for emissions and fuel economy are not being tested on the road they're being tested inside in a climate controlled lab to very very set situation of parameters correct and then when Volkswagen took the car off the rig and sold it to customers what they were experiencing on the road in terms of emissions was totally different sometimes 40 times the EPA standard for nitrogen oxides which are uh it's bad for the planet it leads to asthma and other respiratory problems um it's pretty dirty stuff so so the problem that Volkswagen has here is for one it has a polluting car that it said was clean but the real problem is almost more of public relations because it had True Believers it had people who really thought that this car was the Holy Grail of clean performance and the Betrayal is almost a bigger problem for Volkswagen than the actual Commission of the error MH Jake well absolutely I mean it's about it's about trust it's about you know there's so many enthusiasts about these cars many people really you know care about these cars I mean there's huge clubs I mean you go online there's VW Vortex there's TDI clubs I mean people really believe in these things and you know you have to be able to trust that company I mean if they're lying about you know what they're doing in terms of mission are they lying somewhere else is there some other test that they're cheating and and I think that's really you know important when you're buying the car we've seen stuff like this before I mean you look what you know Hyundai went and they misstated or or rigged the system for the uh for the fuel economy by 1 miles per gallon and and that really came and hurt them temporarily but this it's kind of greater than that right technically how did Volkswagen do this how would how would they have how would they have rigged the system well I mean the truth is that when you test these vehicles on a d um you have to tell the vehicle that it's on the datometer because you know as you know I mean all the cars have stability control they're monitoring their wheel speed and if you put the front wheels on a roller the car kind of says this ain't right because the back whe the back wheels aren't turning so it thinks it's slipping right I mean think this through right if you get into snow and the front wheel starts spinning what does your car do it cuts back it cuts back power so how possibly could you do this test without telling the car something is going on so there is a way to go and tell every one of these cars that you are now on a dynometer and you're being tested what they have chosen to do is said well since we know it's being tested let's go change the way this car operates and they put it into a way that it actually does meet those emissions but once you get it off the dynometer you go to normal mode now it's polluting more right okay so Volkswagen did this they've admitted to doing this so now consumers have these cars there's a stigma floating around them uh for years one of the Hallmarks of Volkswagen TDI was that the TDI always had better resale value you know they were always more in demand than the gasoline powered cars so now resale value is a question but I mean there's also questions of what's going to happen after the recall okay well what will the recall be no one knows what the recall will be even to fix these cars well let's let's first talk about resale value and transaction price because you could always get a screaming deal on a golf for Jetta regular gas power but the Diesel's always carried this premium $3,000 or depending I mean and that was just the sticker price starting at a thousand maybe a bit more but but once you started getting into the actual transaction price out the door 3,000 4,000 5,000 depending on the trim level Etc so people are already paying a premium for this they're paying a premium for the diesel fuel over regular gasoline so this is this is an added expense over years and there were all these models constructed over how many miles a year or over the life of a car do you need to drive a diesel to pay off the price difference well if all of a sudden because of the way the car is operating you know if they have to do a a recall repair to this vehicle that changes that Dynamic where if all of a sudden the fuel economy that the diesel gets is more on par with a gasoline car or even if it's just lower by a few miles per gallon you know all of a sudden that changes the dynamic of you know how you're paying all this premium for this car and it's not really giving you a backend benefit um which then makes the resale value suffer so all of a sudden now you started a higher price and you ended at a higher price but now you're starting at a higher price and are ending at a lower price because who's going to want to pay that extra money for a diesel when it really doesn't do all that much more than a gas car and I think that's a big exposure for Volkswagen there'll probably be a class action suit claiming dimition of value and that's where Volkswagen owners may have a chance of getting some compensation so there's even technical issues of can these cars be sold can these cars be registered well obviously they're holding the sales on them but there there's not going to be a chance where they're actually going to penalize the owners of these cars they did nothing wrong so the people who own these cars are still going to be able to drive them um the question is about that fix and and from a technical standpoint when you're designing an engine right there's a lot of different things you choose and you're looking at there's there's fuel efficiency there is reliability there is emissions um and there's power and all of these things you can't have it all so you make compromises and whatever you're doing and if you go and say well we're going to cheat over here you can get a car that gets better fuel efficiency or better performance if you're going to get those the efficiency back you have to pull it from somewhere else and you know to Mark's point is we don't know what that's going to look like now you know again to get into the technical side of it now this car behind us has what's called a Ura treatment system okay this was added in 2015 a lot of these cars out there don't have that and and it is unclear on how they're going to actually be able to make those emissions without that system system maybe they have to retrofit it that could be very expensive if they don't how else are they going to to compromise the performance of this vehicle and the bigger issue is looking forward if you have to compromise diesels that much or to make them meet these emissions we have looked at the test results that we have on gasoline engines they're phenomenal lately right and we got midsize getting 32 miles per gallon we got smaller cars getting getting even greater um is that Delta worth it what does that mean for the future of diesels right because I mean you're looking at a Mazda 6 which is a good sized midsize sedan getting 32 mgon overall most Volkswagen TDI are floating around upper 30s you know 36 37 around there is that Delta worth it for the added cost that you you mentioned that you you've got more to pay Diesel's typically more expensive also like you said we don't know what the fix is yet right now floating around is anything from the idea that it could be a simple remapping of air fuel mixtures which kind of would lead to the question why couldn't Volkswagen have just done that anyway because they tried to fix earlier last year that didn't seem to work um all the way to those cars that do not have Ura systems retrofitting those which is thousands of dollars worth of Parts uh do they even comply then you know does Volkswagen wind up buying back cars this is still early days in this whole Scandal and we have to it'll be interesting to see what the fixes are and how consumers are being made right you know for these cars well and this is the real question is how does the consumer be made right and and and yeah okay say they go and they put in this Uria treatment system and they retrofit as it you know is it going to meet emissions and what kind of durability is this I mean if I was an owner of this car I would want a long a warranty on this because if they go and do this heavy rework to my car and I don't know what's going to happen but if that's it I want I want some warranty that that you know 6 months down the road the thing's not malfunctioning and I'm I'm for it a lot of these cars are out of warranty yeah I mean I also want to warranty that if they change that air fuel ratio or they change how often the emission systems is is working that okay so I'm I'm firing a regenerative system I'm cleaning out the Catalyst more often so I'm sending more fuel through it am I coking up Pistons am I going to burnout catalytic converters am I using three times as much Ura as I was using before I want all this stuff warrantied sure and federal emission standards do require these systems to last for a certain Peri perod of time and who knows if they would do that after the fix so this brings us kind of to the question is diesel done in America oh we'll get to that in a second but I think for a lot of people this is this is sparking okay so there's a lot of emotions behind this people feel betrayed but they're also worried about the the issues that we just brought up and they may just be saying I'm done I want to get rid of it um and so the question comes up can you sell your TDI right now and the answer at least in California is yes the California resources board has said they're not going to stand in the way of either registering the car or selling the car because technically the car does meet emissions but that's that's their way of that's that's their long way of saying we need to wait to see what the recall repair is until that time they're just going to leave it in state and so you can transfer uh title and ownership and all that they're not going to stand in the way once the recall is announced there is a window of time in which they still will allow you to sell it because you don't have to have all recall repairs performed on a car when you sell it that's a different issue that we want yeah that's but uh once it reaches a certain number of months then you must have had the recall performed uh if it involves emissions from a carb standpoint so if you're really worried about your your TDI and you just are like I'm I'm done with it you can sell it but that you know you rais an interesting point because TDI owners many of them have enjoyed the fact they've been getting several miles per gallon better than the EPA numbers now keep in mind those EPA fuel e economy numbers would have been done with the car running emissions so it's likely that after a recall you're going to lose a couple miles per gallon uh I've seen in those forums that you mentioned earlier plenty of people are like I'm not going to get the recall done because I'm happy with the way my car runs but in some states like California that can cause you legal problems well and also I think there's an opportunity for whatever the whatever the fix is is just to make it so it it's it's in the consumer's interest to get it done I mean okay fine well I I might lose one mile per gallon or 2 mes per gallon whatever it is but um but now they're extending a warranty for me and now maybe there's a um they're they're refunding me something you know maybe there's there's a cash settlement for those people that get it done so I think you know they really have to it's more about just fixing the cars I mean you have a 2009 car and you've been driving it for 200,000 miles and you know and maybe you bought it because you care about the and you're kind of little racked off because it's not so clean it's not so clean um they they need to make restitution to those owners that are just farther than saying oh it's it's fixed now mhm okay is diesel done in America uh is this on the C I wouldn't call it a mortal blow there are other manufacturers who have diesels but a lot of Manufacturers have been trying to bring out diesels over the last couple years and uh they've all been stillborn I mean Subaru tried to bring it out didn't happen Honda tried to bring it they H to mentioned bringing out triy didn't Mazda has been trying to do it and they've said that they haven't been able to meet performance and fuel economy hopes for the added cost which kind of points to this whole issue because they were trying to do it without Ura too so you know other than truck other than you know like a Ram diesel or Grand Cherokee or Mercedes uh SUV diesel does diesel make sense can diesel work well okay the Market's going to decide and and for all the marketing that automakers can do proclaiming how great diesel is if Americans don't feel comfortable with it they're not going to buy it and as long as it's a price premium not only on the vehicle itself but on the fuel that makes it a really hard argument and the one thing that Volkswagen had on its side was that they were saying no it's clean well if diesel is just as dirty as gas and the the the price Delta to get your money back from buying the vehicle is is that much longer it makes it a really hard retail decision for for a consumer um ites it you know unless you need a diesel for a specific purpose like you're towing a boat or you just really love that low-end torque you know what's what's the argument to be made to get it you know the the other big piece is the market has changed so back in 2009 um Volkswagen's alternative engine was that 2.5 L engine which was yeah it was kind of a boat anchor it was not a competitive motor um now the new engine the 1.8 that is a silky smooth power powerful and efficient engine well you also had a world of less compelling hybrids too of you know the pretty much you had you know the Prius and maybe the Camry Hybrid you didn't have these cars like the Fusion Hybrid or the cmax hybrid that were Dynamic to drive as well as offering good fuel economy with an alternative to DEC well I mean with hybrids I think there's kind of another segment you know I'm thinking about it just in terms of when you look at the alternative of of a diesel versus a gas powered that Delta in terms of fuel economy has really narrowed I mean we talked about Mazda Mazda talked about how they're going have a Mazda 6 with the diesel suddenly they got Sky Active and they're getting 32 m per gallon of their gas engine which is a silky smooth powerful engine that's delivering great great performance emissions right I hope so I hope so and fuel economy so what we've seen over the last five years I mean it really hasn't been that that far we've seen new technologies in gasoline that just brought them so much further direct injection multi speeed Transmissions um high compression when it comes to Sky Active what Mazda is doing that that Gap is narrow so much that you know again we've talked about in podcast I've said I don't know if I'd go for a diesel and people tweeted me and said what are you talking about you always said diesels were good I mean the Gap has changed because the market has changed right so that's going to wrap it up for this episode of the podcast we're going to keep on following the story as always please come to consumerreports.org and we'll give you the latest and thank you for watching we'll see you next time time\n"