it was you it took Arnold way less time to realize yeah the hosts are waking up and a large part of that I think was his interactions with Dolores and how often they would talk to each other and it was through his suicide because he was like I you know there needs to be new Stacy I can't just like if the hosts kill themselves for Gary yeah and I feel like it took that suicide then Ford was like okay I kind of start believing it I don't think that changed for it at all I think Ford never really we never see him marry anyone we never see him with anyone excelled in Arnold we never really get the sense that he had any human connections other than Arnold and I think Arnold's death was just Ford being like well that sucks guess that's the end of Arnold's experiment of you know true intelligence I think that Ford likes me because they're both British okay so another thing that happens that gets us to the end here is Clementine he's back loved Clementine but she's weaponized Clementine what do we think of that zombie Clem with the mesh network they put although the hosts in the classroom and they put her there and he gives them a little bit of a high-five literally well maybe a y5y five and then that's totally what happens and then thank you the office and then yeah they just destroy each other yeah in burn art well Bernard actually watches it happen and Ford is sitting in Bernard saying like see what they want to do to you see what they're gonna make happen they don't give a crap about you how come he didn't get looped in in them Lynn I was gonna ask the same thing I think because they didn't expand her network reach yeah she could NFC close enough exactly she was on NFC bandwidth not mesh net but and that's why they restricted her I think it's interesting cuz we saw last episode Maeve's bandwidth has increased quite a bit and it's curious to see what's gonna happen in the next episode so what are our thoughts on there is the trailer we acknowledge here's an amazing trailer with lots of interesting little cookies we'll put it over us talking right now but what do you guys think of that trailer and hope for the finale well I noticed that I think they're going to pick Clementine against me because now Clementine has the same mesh network powers and she was the one kind of chasing them and and maybe was telling them to run away so I think now she has a formidable adversary that has the same powers that she has because you know maybe was just like extremely powerful so now and it makes it's poetic that they made it Clementine yeah I was thinking that too that's kind of like hurt her so I got to you like Maeve is now neo and now we have an agent Smith in the form of Clementine yeah yeah that's cool and there's always her prodigy so we'll see what happens there and you saw a bunch of Easter eggs oh my gosh they're so many so man I tried not to I well I didn't want to like get to like there's so many so many I loved it I went through I pause certain it's the one that I am so concerned about what looks like Charlotte Hale talking to herself it's Charlotte Hale not a mirror but in light another in what looks like cold storage kind of the same silhouette as her is it her is it maybe like a short-haired different host is she just being approached by this naked host randomly and storage or is it hurt are we having another situation where she kind of has this realization when she found Bernard like oh my god anybody can be a host now she might find herself I think I have a deep cut conspiracy theory that I think that it just links up into Truman The Truman Show because and the Ed Harris man in black is the producer so it just all brings us together and Jim Carrey will come out and that'll be the end it's big in the end thanks for sticking with us today as if you guys have questions you can tweet them at us I'm at your calling I'm at lanois also if you want more wet slope coverage you can check out our website cnet.com flex Westworld until then subscribe like put some comments there you can link the bell for some other patrons and what should we go out on today guys one more episode left receives I think of the cowboy hats gaming I thought it was really funny I'm never putting that hat on because the attention someone being like oh I don't know it doesn't really fit me I'm not really a hat person and like a horse is like you need to wear it just please wear the hat just make a choice yeah oh I don't
"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enand welcome to the west-world morning after after show I'm Patrick I'm Lynne and I'm Caitlin and we're all seen that editors who are big fans of the show Westworld today we're going to talk about season 2 episode 9 yeah and if you don't like spoilers you should leave now close the tab and walk away early bookmark a gun bag oh yeah so this episode was called vanishing point and as the penultimate episode of the season we got a crap ton of info crap ton of info it's a subhead on this episode you know the music director no I mean we had you know some pretty clear timelines as opposed or compared to other episodes right so we it wasn't too difficult to follow but we did have a lot of flashbacks with William it was a lot of information I found it kind of difficult to follow except the men in black man in black storyline but everything else is like I'm so confused so so hopefully the next episode will yeah I mean so we start with William and like a ritzy party with his wife and his daughter and later we see Ford make an appearance and we kind of get a glimpse on his home life where his wife Juliette played by Sela Ward loved her is we learn a drunk she's been a drunk for all of it their daughter Emily's life and we kind of get bits and pieces of their home life and we see you know maybe it wasn't that great Emily alludes to her mother often forgetting or not being involved in her life with the gift of the music box which we were kind of talking about and it just seems like William and those if that party scene it's just resigned to this is my life this is what I do on a day to day life is hard being rich so Darren from what we see of him in Westworld yeah and you could see that you know when he was talking to with Juliet with their friend that they knew that they have this facade that they're like this happy couple but you know just like everything else it's not really how it is they play off each other very well but like I like her escapism is alcohol and his escapism is Westworld so in that sense like they're definitely making that comparison and also there's a little like scene in the bar with Ford and he slips them the card of all his personally all the stuff they have captured about him I like that scene Ellen for the card but if a lot like that scene in The Shining when he walks into the bar and bets all ghosts you know I don't know there's that parallelism of the same like angles and shots and some of that I mean for it is essentially a ghost to us in present timeline so it definitely felt like it works he gets his little profile card which seems like it's like the weight of like a black American Express like it sounds like a metallic like a Chase Sapphire good card this is your profile oh yeah your your life limit is $250,000 no but that was neat in him sliding it on the bar but then he caught caught wind that literally it's a handoff between Emily and men and black who takes care of mom yes yeah and we kind of see that despite the facade or perhaps because of it they have really spent their life together fighting and angry and constantly pushing down all of these you know desires and presenting this United Front to the world he is the leader of a huge corporation we learned that he donated massive amounts of money he's supremely philanthropic from the outside looking in but then you go home and he's just like I'll take care of you she's like screw you Juliet's like screw you don't talk to me tell me something true yeah I felt really sad for one was that she's like he might have a history of just gas lining her I was telling her that she's crazy that he's not doing anything and you know that the kind of stuff that he does in West world and she knows it too she has like a feeling that he's just kind of this terrible person yeah and he won't tell her why and we know that goes through these pilgrimages and that he probably doesn't invite her she doesn't go with him and yeah it's just like an awful terrible there was references earlier that maybe they were used to go as a family that's how as a kid and stuff but now it's kind of like it's his thing it's his way of supposedly coping with his anger or that darkness that he has that they keep alluding to I've seen the big thing we've seen like hints of her suicide throughout and I didn't I guess I wasn't there was like a huge flip it was interesting reveal that she was dealing with alcoholism really bad and that is that the alcoholism that's kind of Williams fault is it the fact probably it's heard that it spurred the something spurred the suicide that was his fault or is it a little bit messy because like her father is Dilys and William is William and it's like wow could you pick more crappy people to be in between she was I mean alcohol is about to get disease too but she thought she was picking the good guy she even said it she's like here's someone who wasn't a phony it was just himself the problem was that was Williams facade like that was never who he truly was and she called him a virus well she basically infected the family she was responsible for like Logan unraveling he yes definitely he was like responsible for Delos and doing like becoming obsessed with immortality yeah and like basically try to take hit over the company and he was like this company is gonna be mine watch me and then now we know you know in the end he shot his daughter so he basically kind of like infected the whole family and and she was probably like you know I'm probably the way she was driven to suicide and alcoholism because of all the crap he did well I think him telling her all about his you know she he finally gives her a piece of truth and it's that moment where she goes oh my god I was right like he was gas lighting her he never told her about his darkness or how terrible he was inside the park and he's like yeah you were right you saw it you're the only one who saw it nobody understands he's like sorry I don't belong in this world I have a long list for I'm like I was like you want to be in this game what about taking care of a family what about being here and now and being in the present and having relationships with real people right and he's like I don't it's the escapism too of that I think that is what whether it's you're escaping through for yourself or they're escaping through for money or immortality alcoholism all these things are pulling you out of your reality and obviously it's commenting a lot on where we're at with uh society that where you we use our phones we use the Internet we using our connectivity just contantly constantly escape those awkward moments this boring room it's just tough moments you know where does this line up in the sense of the Della's timeline because we know like we had saw earlier the season of them trying to make him a host so I think in terms of the timeline we actually can go back to Episode four with you know William and Alice's interactions and exactly figure out where all this happens the what third time he's goes to see James Dallas is when he tells him yeah Julie it's dead and Emily is gone she blames me for the death when Juliet picks Williams profile out of slaughterhouse-five which let's come back to that one so she puts it on her tablet and looks at it and it says subject 2 and it goes through all of the things about his personality and what he's like and who he is he's a supremely rare personality type he's persecutory his delusions and he's a paranoid subtype and so all of that she's like oh my god I was right this was exactly who he's always been if anything can tell me who this person I'm married to is it's Westworld so she knows that they've been mapping them she knows that they've been performing these like experiments and Emily even tells William later you know uncle Logan which is really funny to hear called tells me used to tell me all these things but I just always thought he was wasted and he used to tell me all these stories and I always just thought he was crazy and Juliet probably isn't telling her daughter this because she doesn't want her to see her father like that but I mean she wouldn't know the same things Logan does at the at least Logan would be spouting off wasted to her probably alright so I think she definitely knows what's going on I think she definitely it's the realization that he's been gaslighting her all this time that leads her to suicide and I think our timeline places it actually maybe just a couple years before the final Delos visit with William which places us maybe a couple years before all this crap goes down at West world I wonder - then how much do you think that has we see it flashbacks that her suicide has haunted him forever and part of it is to blame that he feels to blame for that but then it's also really apparent that Emily does she has a whole speech about the gift box of the ballerina yeah so my question with the whole gift box thing was that she said she went through the whole trouble of telling this story about how she forgot she missed remembered that she was a dancer she threw away the jewelry box which is kind of a bratty thing to do but it's okay this rich family's like I want a jewelry box man um throws it away and then it gets cleaned up but then we see the mom put his profile card in the jewelry box and that's and Emily gets that profile card from her mom she said that she left it as a clue about who you were and it be and I thought it was really strange that she left out that the mom in the end did salvage that jewelry box and I wonder I mean I wonder if it leads to anything if that if it becomes important later on or if it's just you know a kind of a little Easter egg it's like you know the mom was kind of nice in the end but this actually doesn't mean anything but I just thought it was such a odd detail I wonder too if her including my detail would have saved her life yeah or if it's you up or the opposite way where it's maybe that is the detail that it wasn't just William that push mom to have commit suicide but also Emily and the way she acted to some of those things too I think and obviously feel guilty but I think it's well daughter was a to her mom she was gonna have her committed yes yeah but then also like you have the her dad telling you know pushing yet to do that it's just like you know you and being committed is like you know she wanted treatment it's not like that that the daughter wanted to find treatment for her mom and she probably didn't act in the best but I'm like mana black is like super I feel like the weight of it well in the way what do you think that means that she brings up because it happens and then we kind of get into a lot of other stuff really quickly but she brings up the fact that her purpose was to bring mom back to life so to speak kind of like they were trying to do with papadelis I mean what have happened there she does kind of insinuate that that's what she wants maybe but she also in the last episode told okay you know what I want is for him to hurt and my way will be much much worse than whatever you have planned and so do you think she planned him shooting her so a couple like did she did she you know take into account she's seen his profile does she know that he's super paranoid was she you know constructing all of this to really drive him over the edge or was she going to duplicate their mother and have her kind of RIP into William or did it all just go entirely off the rails yeah I think she definitely didn't want to get shot I felt like there was so she's like no I'm not a robot I'm just not that which is a really good language yeah I'm just trying to I'm the daughter trying to give a about you it's Westworld it could go either way but sometimes of simplices the answer is the best words he it just shows you how far gone he has that the one family member he has he kills and you know there are moments of like ambiguity is we never get to see the scan if she was yeah switching to I was like dude Emily's real mikono Emily may be a robot I'm like no Emily is real I don't know man Madame black is a robot now no he's probably real yeah just like oh it now I'm now I decided that both our real humans so in both our wait you think both are yes thank you really it's just like this story would mean a lot more if he really did in the end shoot his daughter and that like him being obsessed with Westworld had actual real-world repercussions that he killed his like only living family member and like so why do you think he stops himself from shooting himself another another suicide attempt in this episode he holds the gun to his head I wanted him to shoot are they all weed we all did yeah we we all I mean well let me say this I did and I think that I'm glad he didn't because there's just still something more to reveal about him yes and not I'm not talking about the host thing I think that's like a look I think that's a mystery that it's a mystery I think that's part of his paranoid delusions I think he's you know seriously devolving we see him hallucinate Deloris at that rich party we've seen him kind of you know be uber skeptical of everyone and because so everyone is a whole o forward you tricky yeah like no dude we're like real people it's like it's like Trump with the fake media it's like you're a hosted your host like if he doesn't get his way but I had to say the jump though from the last time we saw him on-screen two episodes ago to now it does seem like Edie Harris's performance all of a sudden like we're starting to see more of like oh like we see the where's before it was a little more hidden and I kind of like that subtlety but maybe we're also at the end of the season we have to have a little more like yeah he's gone but also he got shot four times like how he's dying how was a 68 year old getting shot four times and being able to walk at all well I mean she Emily did help him a little bit well it holds out of this but I thought I was like she put it like a little bandaid on his I'm I'm like well there was four so well weren't you getting blood from is it there's plasma available I have so many questions she's such a good medic if she could like really like heal him so none of his shots were like in his heart if we assume none of them hit any major arteries they all grazed him all the bullets just like yeah yeah man I mean she could have healed him yes yeah so I'm glad he didn't shoot himself I think that's you know he has a lot more to do with tearing down some of the experiments that he began and he started and I'm interested to see where he goes one more thing do we think this is the last we're seeing Emily it's like we're like oh I had a bulletproof vest underneath my blouse the entire time kind of thing or there might be another reveal that oh she was a host the whole time do we think this is the last of Emily I was scared that when he was gonna shoot himself that the real Emily was gonna ride along the horse and like dad what are you doing the whole time I'm like always ready I'm gonna be like very hyper aware that any of all this could happen I was reading her interview with Vanity Fair yeah actress Katja Herbers who plays Emily said she is a human and is dead but this is HBO guys come on john snow the exact same thing happened with Kit Harington as Jon Snow he's like no no I'm dead I'm dead like I'm not filming anymore next for next season I'm out have fun so who knows so you're saying Emily will return in the next infinity or sang is stay tuned on Westworld season 3 Jon Snow I would rather they finally merged okay so that was definitely a big part of the episode and then we have two of our other favorite characters Dolores and Teddy and Teddy commits suicide awake Teddy commits suicide that was a great storyline I'm glad that I will at first I was like oh he's gotta shoot himself he's gonna shoot her but it was really good appoint himself it was really good pointing at himself because he was just leading up to the fact that he doesn't want to kill anymore and that he changed her and he's resentful she changed him and he's resentful of that and he's like I can't protect you anymore cuz maybe like he just doesn't want to do all this stuff and finally when he's free Teddy the person that he kills as himself the only person free Teddy kills yeah yeah I mean I'm sad Teddy killed himself yeah obviously however maybe this will kind of spurred Dolores to take a look at what she's really striving for what she's really looking for she was flabbergasted it seemed like when Teddy was like yeah you used to say that the natural splendor line as he looks at the horizon and she's like oh my gosh she he remembers he's awake and she's sitting there thinking I did this I did this like I made him a survivor and I woke him up and then he just turns and he and who's to say that nice Teddy could have survived anyways yeah he's like that's kind of unnecessary that kind of fine you know just because I wasn't shooting every executing everyone you wanted to execute and this is nice teddy yeah like he she bumped his aggression so far up but she forgot about his loyalty in his brains and he said feeling he was worried for her when she when he first laid eyes on her that she was cold yeah and she's like did I wake him up was he always destined to be awake I wanted this in bold answer though cuz I want if it's like that's fact she's lost a lot because she lost teddy she's lost her father Peter Abernathy but she still has a little CPU the little light bulb thing you didn't see in this episode so hopefully that will connect to hopefully the next episode there's one left yeah I wonder what their path is she's lost Clementine in her army but that might be a good segue into Maeve Clementine and Ford and all that's going on with that storyline so last episode we saw Maeve her neck is basically be peeled up and we see her musculature her veins and arteries and all that stuff and she looks like she is holding on for dear life literally but good ol Bernard tries to come visit her carrying his good old ghost friend and conscience Ford and Ford's like hang on I have a message and he delivered to me he'll get it from you though just you don't need to go in there get into the room and I had to say that was actually one of my favorite moments next to maybe the Teddy moment of the episode was Ford just having this kind of father-daughter talk the little kiss the forehead all that stuff is just so heartbreaking that hey look I had intended you to do a lot of stuff but I didn't know that this would be the path you chose now we know that there are some hosts that are acting against Ford's programming but it's good because now sometimes when I have like an inkling of doubt like Bernard cutting himself out to give extracting Ford out there was always like oh is he really doing that as Ford making him do that well we could still see you know actually doesn't answer anything still control people but I just to know that it's there is a possibility that the host can go against Ford's programming yeah it's like a chance that they couldn't do that and I think he he he relishes that a bit for good and bad because that's part of that game that he seems always liked to play and how nice is it for Bernard to like yep I'm gonna just cuff myself the steering wheel therefore I cannot shoot you yeah yes after after Bernard delivers the mave message we see him going off with Elsie and I thought that was actually really sad as well they're out in the dune buggy and Elsie goes to scavenge for these weapons and he has this breakdown of oh god I need to get Ford out of me so he does he handcuffs himself and like Jackson and she's like no secrets no lies in his face is like so like torment she's like are you okay which is like why do you have to go if you're not gonna hurt her why are you leaving her if you're already doing this so that you don't hurt her yeah she's like screw you Bernard you you have major abandonment issues for the rest of her life giving her and stuff but he's like doing it to save her from right so weird I think he's going to the valley beyond the forge yet a new day a new vocabulary word that we have to learn the forge the hottest club in town in club in town in west throat the Ford full of like crazy clementines yeah Bernard who might be Arnold who might be Bernards and somewhere fort ghosts yeah and then that's the other craziness we see Ford when he kisses Maeve's forehead we notice her tablet of her personality says core permissions unlocked and maybe ghosts I mean apparition as it goes kind of but it's he's more of an apparition thing I mean he's just code he's just a package delivery yeah that little email message that he gave he's like please he's cookie he's the new clip Iain I see you're trying to control Westworld would you like network it seems like he's being nice to me yeah yeah I was like I'm right here I know I know no I mean I think he does identify her the most she has this irreplaceable desire to constantly help and find her child and help the host and like Ford also feels that way for as crazy as he seems sometimes man all he wanted the moment he realized they were awake the moment he had that interaction with Aki in Episode eight he went oh oh you are waking up I did this i I need to Shepherd you into the next stage of evolution I need to get you there then but didn't it take Arnold like dying and killing himself to have them realize that because it was you it took Arnold way less time to realize yeah the hosts are waking up and a large part of that I think was his interactions with Dolores and how often they would talk to each other and it was through his suicide because he was like I you know there needs to be new Stacy I can't just like if the hosts kill themselves for Gary yeah and I feel like it took that suicide then Ford was like okay I kind of start believing it I don't think that changed for it at all I think Ford never really we never see him marry anyone we never see him with anyone excelled in Arnold we never really get the sense that he had any human connections other than Arnold and I think Arnold's death was just Ford being like well that sucks guess that's the end of Arnold's experiment of you know true intelligence I think that Ford likes me because they're both British okay so another thing that happens that gets us to the end here is Clementine he's back loved Clementine but she's weaponized Clementine what do we think of that zombie Clem with the mesh network they put although the hosts in the classroom and they put her there and he gives them a little bit of a high-five literally well maybe a y5y five and then that's totally what happens and then thank you the office and then yeah they just destroy each other yeah in burn art well Bernard actually watches it happen and Ford is sitting in Bernard saying like see what they want to do to you see what they're gonna make happen they don't give a crap about you how come he didn't get looped in in them Lynn I was gonna ask the same thing I think because they didn't expand her network reach yeah she could NFC close enough exactly she was on NFC bandwidth not mesh net but and that's why they restricted her I think it's interesting cuz we saw last episode Maeve's bandwidth has increased quite a bit and it's curious to see what's gonna happen in the next episode so what are our thoughts on there is the trailer we acknowledge here's an amazing trailer with lots of interesting little cookies we'll put it over us talking right now but what do you guys think of that trailer and hope for the finale well I noticed that I think they're going to pick Clementine against me because now Clementine has the same mesh network powers and she was the one kind of chasing them and and maybe was telling them to run away so I think now she has a formidable adversary that has the same powers that she has because you know maybe was just like extremely powerful so now and it makes it's poetic that they made it Clementine yeah I was thinking that too that's kind of like hurt her so I got to you like Maeve is now neo and now we have an agent Smith in the form of Clementine yeah yeah that's cool and there's always her prodigy so we'll see what happens there and you saw a bunch of Easter eggs oh my gosh they're so many so man I tried not to I well I didn't want to like get to like there's so many so many I loved it I went through I pause certain it's the one that I am so concerned about what looks like Charlotte Hale talking to herself it's Charlotte Hale not a mirror but in light another in what looks like cold storage kind of the same silhouette as her is it her is it maybe like a short-haired different host is she just being approached by this naked host randomly and storage or is it hurt are we having another situation where she kind of has this realization when she found Bernard like oh my god anybody can be a host now she might find herself I think I have a deep cut conspiracy theory that I think that it just links up into Truman The Truman Show because and the Ed Harris man in black is the producer so it just all brings us together and Jim Carrey will come out and that'll be the end it's big in the end thanks for sticking with us today as if you guys have questions you can tweet them at us I'm at your calling I'm at lanois also if you want more wet slope coverage you can check out our website cnet.com flex Westworld until then subscribe like put some comments there you can link the bell for some other patrons and what should we go out on today guys one more episode left receives I think of the cowboy hats gaming I thought it was really funny I'm never putting that hat on because the attention someone being like oh I don't know it doesn't really fit me I'm not really a hat person and like a horse is like you need to wear it just please wear the hat just make a choice yeah oh I don't\n"
