There's nothing really new there I mean people act like it's a new Theory but it's not really it's something people have proposed for a long time both an avalanche and sort of a slab Avalanche Theory and I think the thing to remember yeah okay fine you're using Frozen to show how it would happen but people knew about that it wasn't like we didn't know that slab Avalanches happened before this.

People have known about slab Avalanches for a long time, and yet the incident at Diomede Pass remains one of the most baffling unsolved mysteries in the history of mountaineering. The fact that it has been dubbed "the strangest thing ever to happen on a mountain" suggests that there is still much that we don't understand about this event, despite numerous theories and speculations.

One of the things that strikes me as odd about the Diomede Pass incident is the level of experience and expertise among the group of climbers who were involved. They are often referred to as "kids," which belies their actual age and maturity, but also suggests a sense of youthful recklessness and invincibility that can be unsettling.

I think I've been on the side of every theory at some point in my investigation into this case, and I have to say that I am still not convinced by any one explanation. I've seen theories ranging from the absurd (such as the idea that a Yeti or other mythical creature was responsible for the incident) to the plausible (such as the suggestion that a slab Avalanche may have occurred, which could explain many of the injuries and fatalities).

However, despite my openness to different perspectives, there are certain aspects of this case that continue to baffle me. For example, one of the women who died in the incident had what appeared to be a large bruise on her body, which was not explained by any of the official theories. Similarly, many of the injuries suffered by the group were unusual and unexplained, such as the fact that several people seemed to have been struck by some kind of blunt object.

I don't think it's possible to rule out the possibility of an Avalanche entirely, but at the same time, I think it's unlikely that a slab Avalanche was the sole cause of this incident. There were just too many weird and inexplicable factors involved for me to believe that this could have happened by accident alone.

In fact, one thing that has struck me about the Diomede Pass case is the number of strange incidents that occurred in the same general area over a period of time. For example, there was another group of climbers who were also on Mount Deception (a nearby mountain) at around the same time as the incident at Diomede Pass, and they reported seeing strange lights in the sky.

It's possible that these two incidents are connected in some way, but I'm not sure what. Perhaps there's something about this particular region of Alaska that is more prone to unusual occurrences than other areas. Whatever the explanation, it's clear that the Diomede Pass case is a mystery that will continue to puzzle and intrigue us for years to come.

One thing that I have learned from my investigation into this case is the importance of being open-minded and willing to consider different perspectives. Even if you're convinced by one theory, there's always a chance that another explanation could be lurking just beneath the surface. And sometimes, it's only when we challenge our own assumptions and biases that we can really start to get to the bottom of a mystery.

In any case, I have to say that spending time with Brett has been a real treat for me. He's always got a lot of interesting insights and perspectives on the cases he investigates, and he's always willing to listen to my own thoughts and theories.

If you're interested in learning more about the Diomede Pass case, I would definitely recommend checking out some of Brett's other episodes. He's got a real knack for digging up all sorts of fascinating facts and anecdotes that can really help us get a better sense of what happened.

Of course, if you're not already familiar with the Silver Linings Handbook podcast, then I'd be happy to tell you more about it in general terms. The show is hosted by my dad, who works in B2B marketing, and he's always got a lot of interesting stories and insights to share. He's also got a real knack for making complex concepts easy to understand, which makes the podcast a great resource for anyone who wants to learn more about this kind of thing.

One episode that I think you might find particularly interesting is the one where my dad talks about his experiences with LinkedIn. As someone who works in B2B marketing, he's always been interested in learning more about social media and how it can be used to reach new customers and build relationships. And he's got some really valuable insights on this topic that I think will be of interest to anyone who wants to learn more about the world of online marketing.

So if you're looking for a podcast that's all about exploring the human condition through storytelling, then I would definitely recommend checking out the Silver Linings Handbook. It's a real treat, and I think you'll find it to be one of the most thought-provoking and engaging podcasts out there.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: entoday I've got a special treat in store I want to share this patreon bonus with you um these are the kinds of things that you can get it's only $3 a month uh to join our patreon um these are the kinds of things that you can get on there and I love this conversation so much that I just wanted to be able to share it with everyone all right here we go this is Silver Linings handbook podcast bonus episode with tally the author and co-host of the prosecutors podcast in March 2021 on the prosecutors podcast Brett and his co-host Alice Lor began a five-part series on the diet love pass incident the 1959 incident is where nine Soviet hikers cut their way out of their own tent and died mysteriously in the Euro mountains was it aliens was it a radioactive Yeti was it an avalance or is it something even more Sinister it's one of those fascinating Mysteries as we say in this bonus episode where oxom razor breaks a little background on the D Love pass incident in 1959 in seedlas oblast in the Soviet Union a group was formed for skiing Expeditions across the northern eural mountains eigor diof a 23-year-old radio engineering student at eural poly Technic Institute amassed a group of nine others for a trip to what was then known as dead Mountain each member of the group was experienced they were all grade two hikers with skiing experience and they would have all been eligible for grade three certification upon the return at the time grade three was the highest certification available in the Soviet Union and diet Love's group designed a route to reach the far Northern reaches of the o last the city committee on physical culture and Sport listed approval for 11 people even though there are only 10 in diet Love's group the 11th person was a former Soviet veteran who survived Leningrad and was added to the group's list at the last minute on January 27th the group began their Trek on the next day one member Yuri uden turned back because of knee and joint pain that made him unable to continue the hike the nine others continued up the mountain their Journey from there has been rebuilt through Diaries and pictures from cameras They Carried and evidence that was found along the way because the group never made it back even though they were expected to return a little bit after February 12th after they did not return on February 26th Searchers found the groups abandoned and badly damaged tent on dead Mountain the campsite baffled the surch party the tent was half torn down and covered in snow the groups belongings including shoes had been left behind prints of people who were wearing either a single shoe or just socks could be followed leading down to the edge of a nearby Woods on the opposite side of the pass there the first two bodies were found shoeless and dressed only in underwear then Searchers found three more bodies it took more than two months to find the other four in this discussion Brett and I are going to give you a little preview of De love past the incident and the Mysteries that surround it we're also going to talk a little bit about some of the theories that have come up since 2022 when the prosecutors uh appeared it and this episode this bonus episode goes quite well with the discussion that Brett and I had on the Main feed about our fascination with Mysteries I hope you all enjoy it so you know Brett I've mentioned to you before that uh D Love pass is one of my absolute favorites um among the uh prosecutors episodes your episodes like my children I love them all the same but you know some are more special but in dial pass uh you know the it's the story of these nine nine hikers in 1959 who head up on what seemed like would be a normal um uh a normal hike uh and and you know over overnight something very strange happened we do not know exactly what strange thing happened but all nine of the the the hikers were lost um you know not the kind of thing I would have expected on a True Crime podcast so I'm just curious like how did you become interested in it how did you even uh find out about this weird event in the Euro mountains so it's it is pretty interesting it was a story that wasn't well known in the west at all until the fall of the Soviet Union it was but it was something that in Russia was well known and and was a mystery that people had talked about for a long time then it comes over to the United States and and ends up you know I find it the way you find all information online basically an alytical I was I was reading crack.com and it was a uh mystery great Mysteries and their answers and they had an answer that is not the answer and that was the first time I'd ever read it and I thought wow this is so strange you got these nine young healthy experienced people they set out on this hike it's incredibly well documented it's not not they left and nobody saw them and then they ended up dead they're riding in their Diaries they've all got cameras they're taking pictures they make it a a really long way until they come to a place called the mountain of the Dead which is where they decide to to pitch their tent which turns out that's not quite as ominous as maybe you would think it's just what the local population the mancy call the mountain because nothing grows there it's like dead mountain right but nevertheless don't don't spend the night on dead mountain is the first lesson we learned from diaa P but you have these people it's they're on top of a mountain it's in winter it's very cold and for some reason in the middle of the night they they not only leave their tent but they cut their way out of their tent and go into the night not wearing some of them aren't wearing shoes some of them aren't wearing coats and they end up a mile away in a forest and then basically all die in different places suffering some of them some pretty extreme wounds and when the people found them the The Searchers found them they had no answer the Soviet government eventually closed the investigation and said they had succumbed to an unknown compelling force that was basically all they could say they couldn't even come up with anything also known that we have no idea yeah and we have no idea and then they tried to cover it up because that's what you do if you're the Soviets right but they couldn't they couldn't cover it up there were just too many family members there was one person who had been with them it's called deav pass because the leader of the group was eigor deav but there had been one person who had actually gotten a long way through the hike but then had suffered some physical ailments and turned back and so he for decades fought for his friends to find out what really happened to them and so it's become one of these great Mysteries that people people have all sorts of theories about one of the one of the really interesting things to me about the story in terms of like talking about the the cover up I I didn't realize it hadn't become popular until the or in the west until the fall of the Soviet Union which had been like what 92 something like that um the the or I guess really late 80s early 90s um as it started to fall or it started to open up and started to fall but one telling thing when I was reading about it in the books that makes me think that you know one of the theories is that you know maybe the Soviets were doing some kind of testing there or something something along those lines and somehow it impacted them like you know Obama dropped or whatever and it caused an avalanche but I had read in one of the books that they had actually closed the area for three years afterwards and I thought to myself closing something for three years does not sound like the Govern government knows what's going on look I mean that's that that's one of the one of the fascinating things about it is the government seems like they were afraid in some ways about what exactly was going on here they one of the the essentially the Attorney General of Russia the equivalent of that is overseeing this investigation the lead investigator the one who wrote the report saying it was an unknown compelling Force later on after the Soviet Union had fallen would write an article saying he thought he basically thought it was aliens and this is the lead investigator is like you know what oh wow was aliens so like that tells you how how bizarre this was and the fascinating thing about it is you have this this competition between sort of I'll say the aams razor approach because I think it is the Avalanche theory that the idea that this was just an avalanche you know they were on a mountain Avalanche that's what happened that is that is sort of the theory of people who don't know a lot about the case is how I would describe it like if you just look at it from very surface level you can come up with Avalanche theories that work but the people actually on the mountain yeah pick your T tent at an angle all everybody ends up dead tent's flattened sounds like an avalanche sounds like an avalanche right and recently there have been some it's it's one of those cases that's solved every few years every few years there'll be an article do I love pass finally solved and there was around a couple years ago there were some guys who used basically the technology from Frozen which I think is fascinating to simulate avalanches and they came up with a theory that it was what they called slab Avalanche which basically they sorted ordinarily you would not have an avalanche on that mountain it's one of the problems it's not steep enough but they were like if they dug in the tent on the side of the mountain they could have had a slab AV lanch and it would have covered the tent and every would have freaked them out and they would have ran one of the problems with that theory is these were experienced people they had done this a lot they knew about things like slab avalanches and they would have known I mean the the key here is leaving that tent basically unclothed in below zero temperature was as close to ding just deciding to die as you could so whatever it was that caused them to do that had to be so bad that that was the better alternative and so you have to believe that they the slav Avalanche happened it's a relatively minor Avalanche but they have a lot of snow on the tent but rather than spending some time to dig some stuff out from the tent like coats and shoes and everything else they just went ahead and said well shoot you know another Avalanche might come so let's flee into the darkness without any close on and let's do it in a way that is not how you would flee an area where you were fearing an avalanche which makes you think that they were spooked by something right or compelled to do it I mean there's one of the problems with it it's like so many cases you are dependent on the facts as reported to you by unreliable narrators you know people often say we talked about the testing well maybe it could have been in testing maybe obom went off people say well yeah but they didn't find any any shrapnel if it had been a bomb that had gone off and the Soviets realized that they would not have included in their reports we found yeah they wouldn't have needed the shrap they would have known and you have all this this weird stuff things like one of the one of the things that has always fascinated me is you have the makeup of this group we talking about how there were nine people eight of them were good friends who all went to this school together they' known each other for forever they plan this hike with their buddy the the by the way something just dawned I mean as you're talking and I'm thinking about your episodes you literally did this like a profiler with you you have the victimology right you know their experience their personalities you have the crime scene you're like literally and you're just trying to find a perp but go on well I mean I'm convinced that when you look at these Mysteries you look at them this is every mystery whether it's a murder or something like this is the same in how you approach it and so I think that is the way to approach it if you're trying to figure out what happened but you have these eight people who are very all connected then you have one guy who was much older who was a who was a veteran of the second world war who survived Stalingrad who was basically forced on this group at the last minute zerov is his name a lot of people have wondered if he might have been KGB operative or something along those lines he had a camera that nobody knew about so all these people had cameras but there he had two he had the one that everybody saw and then he had another one that night he was wearing that camera and he is actually found when he's found dead he's found with a camera around his neck now imagine for a second that the slab Avalanche theory is what happened and they're all sleep in their tent slab Avalanche comes down they're like oh my goodness we're covered in snow they freak out they all flee would Zev have grabbed his secret camera and put it around his neck to flee that doesn't seem likely he also was wearing he was wearing hiso he had his clothes on unlike the rest of them he was pretty much fully dressed and when he was found he was found with a notebook in one hand and a pencil in the other now he had not written anything at least according to the Soviets but I mean just his existence and everything about him is one of the reasons that that even if the Avalanche theory is the simplest Theory and you would think ordinarily that's what happened that's the thing about de Outlaw pass it's so fascinating the simplest Theory actually isn't that satisfying when you look at all the evidence yeah it doesn't wait it actually oxom Razer breaks because the simplest Theory it can't possibly that's that's really interesting because I hadn't thought about it that way that you know if you're sitting in the tent and because I I can get it right like if you or if you could buy into the idea that um uh that that he something happens startles them or someone comes ac across them or there's some kind of emergency it would make sense that he would grab the secret camera um to protect it maybe or to hide it if let's say uh real people were there right like uh they were getting raided by someone or something like that but it doesn't really make sense that we grab the notebook the pencil and the and the people if it had been an a Avalanche that had been coming for for them and you know and and so you're almost looking at every victim in this story in the way that they're found and how they died and what they had with them and and the pieces to the puzzle just don't really come together easily I know people speculated Beyond Avalanche about um about other things like uh catabatic winds as a possibility I knew nothing about them I don't think I had ever heard of them until I read about D pass but they're like these they're these really high density air that comes shooting down they don't necessarily they're not necessarily going to cause an avalanche but they could be disorienting is that the idea behind that one because they can get to like hurricane speeds or something along those lines yeah and they're actually it's interesting because they're necessary for the whole slab Theory to even work you have these kind of wins and it's the catabatic win theory is is is pretty good just because it can basically be like you're in a tornado and it has to be something that was either so compelling or so terrifying that they would do the thing they did that they would flee the way they did but also in the weirdest way because you think you know they're cutting their way out of their tent they're fleeing in Terror into the night but that's not actually what they did it seems like based on the evidence they all kind of gathered near the tent but didn't go recover their stuff I mean even if the tent is under snow some snow if you're standing there not wearing any clothes surely you would try and get something out of the tent to take with you the other problem is the tent itself while it was a little collapsed and did have some snow on top of it it wasn't flattened and it wasn't moved out of out of place in any way and the stuff in the tent wasn't Disturbed so it wasn't like it did not look chaotic in the tent you know there were still like cups of coffee sitting you know Frozen yeah cuz you would expect it all to be knocked over right exactly and that didn't happen so you have these people who leave the tent they stand there for a little while and then they head down the mountain and a and basically a single file line walking down this mountain which isn't was that what you would do if you were fleeing in Terror from an avalanche probably I don't know it's just so bizarre yeah unless there's like some reason like that an experienced hiker knows that they would do that but they were skiers right did they take their they didn't take their skis did they no they didn't they so they had used their skis as like the bottom of the tent so that's what they would do is they would use their ski poles to kind of hold the tin up and in fact one of the ski Poes that they that you see in the very last picture they took where they're setting up the tent you see the ski pole in the picture where the Russians have found the T T the ski pole is sitting stuck in the snow exactly where it was in that other picture so you got to believe that this Avalanche that came down did not move this ski pole like it somehow managed this without moving the ski pole and you can see that with your own two eyes so luy be true yeah lucky ski pole and but their skis were all underneath the other thing sitting on top of the tent was a flashlight that was off so like huh got this this flashlight sitting on top of the tent how did it get there why is it still there there's all sorts of stuff there's missing knives there's there are things that are there that shouldn't have been there just and then when you read about what they did when they got down to the bottom they basically they built this fire and then they what the fire is usually that take you off the ground right like so you're not or is that what it was what what was the fire the fire the fire fire okay okay they climb the tree yes that's what it climb the tree and you can tell that basically they climb high enough that they that they should be able to see the tent they're like climbed up to look back to the tent is what it seems like happened which is a weird thing to do for several reasons number one it is the middle of the night there it's pitch black if you assume there's catabatic winds would you even be able to see anything the only way you'd be able to see anything is if something's going on up there with some illumination right but they do that and then a few of them go off into the forest to try and build sort of a a a temporary shelter three of them at that point try and head back to the tent which is also a weird thing to do if you worried about an avalanche and you were so worried about it you fled they die on the way they don't make it and the ones who tried to build the shelter run into really terrible luck it seems like what happened is they're building the shelter not realizing they're on basically a void and it collapses and they all fall into this into this Ravine and then all the snow falls on top of them and and they die as well so certainly sounds like they were looking back at the tent needed to go back to the tent for some reason or felt like they needed to go back to the temp for reason which makes you sort of feel like they rushed out left some things that they might need like shoes for example um and but but before they went back they wanted to check something out right they didn't just wait up there to like see if there's really an avalanche or anything they didn't do that right they went ahead and did then and fled so you're not buying the Havana syndrome Theory have you heard this one that it was infrasound lowf frequency sound that of course havan syndrome being that someone is blasting people with low frequency sounds and it happens to be lots of Americans and happens to be happening in places where there are lots of Russians that's more recent but that was one of the theories that I heard that like maybe some low frequency sound testing doesn't seem to that one doesn't seem to explain some of the behavior so Danny akt in his book I think it's called Dead Mountain talks about this a lot and he makes a pretty compelling argument for the shape of the mountain and where they were with the catabatic winds blowing against that shape would create infrasound and then infrasound can really mess mind what you would have to have I think for something like that to work obviously it's not going to make all of them lose their minds and flee into the snow and I think people generally push back on that by saying wouldn't have affected all of them but what you could imagine is if it affected the important ones like imagine the and zerov imagine they kind of lost it they probably could have gotten everybody else to follow along with them if you know if if they if they all of a sudden are like rushing into the tent freaking out saying we got to get out we got to get out and the other people might just do it because they're used to just following these guys and doing what they say so I don't know that's a possibil you see yeah you see it in the military all the time if you know a leader thinks somebody's being shot on everyone responds like they being shot on um I I can think about I I covered the Amo shooting which you know we were talking about Mysteries before it's less of a mystery it would been more interesting if it were more complicated mystery but ultimately what we found out at the end was one guy who was one of the leaders of the street crime unit tripped and as soon as he tripped the sound that was made everyone thought he was being fired on so as soon as number two leader in the group started firing everybody just fired right so and it's that idea that if our leaders are encouraging us to do something we trust them we just might do it but what about the mancy the the indigenous people who were there I because I know di past that whole area dead Mountain you know there were certain rules or certain Legends or beliefs that the mancy had about where you could go how far you could go other things like that had has anybody put a credible theory that the mancy I know they helped afterwards with the search um were were a part of it well it's it's it's interesting because the Soviets quashed squashed the mancy theory very quickly because they had actually spent a lot of time trying to build relationships with the mancy and sort of have everybody sympatico with them and so they were not interested in being atherion so they put out things that people still repeat to this day that they didn't really care about that mountain it wasn't a sacred Mountain it wasn't a holy site but there have been some other people who've done some research into it who say essentially really there were two groups of mancy this is not surprising it's kind of like you know know it's kind of like saying the American Indians and not realizing there's a thousand different tribes right and the mancy who helped were the ones who were pretty friend friendly and were sort of more modern and were less superstitious but there was another group of mancy who were much more sort of still in the old ways right and at least what some of these people say is that the mountain actually was sacred and that there weren't supposed to be on that mountain and in particular women weren't supposed to be on that mountain and there were two women in the group and that if they had seen that they would have felt compelled to punish that and there's some good books you may own some of them um oh God there's one on deav path I think it's called death of nine maybe um yeah there is one but that's of n um and it it really goes into the mancy thing and explains this in a in a much better way that may not be the book but I think it's like Sana Os or something is the one who wrote it you're you're really testing my memory on the de pass of this you're better than me right what I think because it happens to be near me I think it's it looks like Anderson on the spine of death there's Lon Anderson is death of nine Zana o she she wrote one of the books and it's really her book is is great because it starts off with um after the fall of the Soviet Union uh go what was his name not Vladimir Putin but the guy before him Boris borison yeah Boris yelton was a graduate of yurg University and was fascinated by this and and wanted to figure out exactly what happened don't go there the mystery of De love pass by sevet Lana a it's a really good book did anyways back to the manyy so the theory is this this group of mancy would have gone up there they would have forced them off the mountain they basically would have then cut up their tent so that they couldn't go back to it so it wasn't actually cut up when they left it was cut up to keep them from being able to use that tin again they were very good at covering their tracks so one of the one of the things that people often say is it couldn't have been somebody else because there are no tracks of another person but the the mancy knew how to cover that so they would have done that then they would have left and so the theory is the man are up there destroying the tent the hikers have gone down the bottom of the mountain they've climbed to the top of the tree they're watching they see the mancy leave at that point the three try and go back but don't make it nah not quite what's up H sell my car in carvana it's just not quite the right time crazy coincidence I just sold my car to Carana what I told you about it 2 days ago when you know you know you know I'm even dropping it off at one of those sweet car vending machines and getting paid today that's a good deal a great deal come on what's your heart saying you're right when you know you know sold whether you're looking to sell your car right now or just whenever feels right go to carvana and sell your car the convenient way terms and conditions apply at your job do you ever have to deal with a nose roller how about a snub pulley well if you're installing a new conveyor belt system dealing with the different components can sound like you're speaking a foreign language luckily you've got a team ready to help Grangers technical product Specialists are fluent in maintenance repair and operations so whenever you want to talk shop just Reach Out call click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done that's sort of the man Theory so they like something like they could have died of hypothermia then the tree collapses or or or or they fall the others fall into the void are the mancy is that is that the book that goes into there was a story at some point because in the Soviet Union they had a lot of women who were leaders where you know they sended delegation out to meet with the mancy they tell them not to have a woman leader am I making this up in my head nope you're not okay okay okay I was thinking did I make up this story and they and they go out there and the Soviets bring a woman with them and the man's here like oops right and they they ended up killing the party right they do and then the retaliation by the Soviets was incredibly vicious and they wiped out a whole bunch bunch of the mancy and that was one of the reasons they wanted to reestablish things with them because this area was actually really important it was a logging area provided a lot of a lot of lumber for the Soviets but it also was a really important area for mining to the extent that compasses don't work very well there because there's so much iron ore and magnetized iron ore in that area that your compos don't work and this was something the diaa pass group ran into to and talked about and they actually were a little bit off their course of where they wanted to be which is one of the reasons they ended up doing what they did so really they should have gotten to the bottom of the mountain the day before camped out there and then the next day climbed to to the top of the mountain and gone through the now Bears de's name but they were behind schedule so they ended up trying to go up halfway and camping where they did to try and make up time which is not a normal place you would Camp you camp at the base or camp on the camp on the other side what about the idea of uh an animal attack well there's a couple animals that have been suggested I know one of them most famously yetis which apparently at least According to some people are radioactive and that's important because there's radiation found on the club of some of the hikers and there's this one Theory made famous in a Discovery Channel documentary called Russian Yeti the killer lives that these yetis radioactive for some reason were in the area they attack the diatlov group that's what caused them to flee is because you'd flee too if you saw radioactive Yeti and so that's one of the theories I would say that is definitely a fringe Theory there's another one that a wolverine got into the tent but I think once again radioactive Wolverine just a regular Wolverine radioactivity is kind of throwing off all the theories yeah and I mean look this group of people was fascinating because two of them had worked at the uh a nuclear power plant just south of eatan BG which was the source of the kushum incident which was the worst nuclear disaster in the world until Chernobyl they covered it up so most people didn't know about it and two of them had been involved in sort of decontaminating that area and that's one reason we think that they had radiation on their clothes is because they had been exposed to so much who had radiation but it explains that at least yep yep and that there could be some some transfer now has there ever been I was gonna ask you two other things has there ever been uh similar similar inance I know we we talked in the episode about the kimar deban incident but has there been a similar incident in the US that I can only think of like the was it uh the hikers in California or were there hikers in California so it's you're thinking of the Yuba County 5 ah those are the five guys that drove up the mountain yes which we have not covered that case we need to it's often called America's DIA pass and it involves similar things in that you have these people who are doing inexplicable things that end up costing them their lives and and it's on top of a mountain in the middle of a snowstorm there's a lot of similarities to it but there are some pretty Stark differences as well but that's that's one that people often point to is a similar one you mentioned the Kamar David in incident which happened near Lake ball and in that case there was a ser suror unlike both Yubba County and DEA pass there was a Survivor and the fact there was a Survivor makes it even crazier because she tells you exactly what happened and and you still don't know what happened right but yeah but you have a better idea there right like something some kind of contaminated at least we know um could do you think diov could have been the same thing like some kind of chemical weapon or something like that that they it's a theory I mean there's so they had to file their plan with the local hiking group so they're at school innburg they have to file this where they're going to go they have to certify it it's one of the reasons you know they were able to find them because they had the plan and some people speculated that obviously the Soviet government would have then known where they were going and then if if if there was some sort of testing going on they could have been sort of Lab Rats for this testing like oh look we have a group of people let's see what happens if we you know drop this nerve gas on them what will they do how will they react is that likely I don't know I think it is interesting something you mentioned that they then closed the mountain for three years afterwards the government basically said no one can go there for another three years I mean that's a that's an interesting response by the government yep yep it doesn't really strike me as uh they entirely know what happened although you know if there was something on the mountain that was secret whether it's chemical weapons or whether it was near let's say near a testing site or whatever it could have been it could have been off the mountain it might explain why they had the extra hiker but that's the thing about Mysteries are so interesting to me not every fact is actually always relevant to solving the mystery like literally the Soviet government could have added the extra hiker on purpose because of some secret thing and it could have zero to do with what actually happened to them um and yeah that's why these things are so hard to solve is there an official Russian government explanation so the Russian government did a reinvestigation a couple years ago and basically Reit rated the Avalanche Theory basically said slab Avalanche that's what happened you know they freaked out they went down to the bottom of the mountain and then died and that was their their Theory it was not well received by the survivors and their family um the survivors or the the surviving family because they weren't survivors uh and the and the guy the guy who who put it together I guess the reaction was so bad that in typical Russian fashion he was fired and sent to Siberia so some things don't change so since you guys did your episodes when were your episodes were they 2022 a while at least 22 maybe even 21 I'm not sure it's been a while H so what new have you learned since the episodes what what updates are there any closer to solving it I mean like you said it solved every every year the the official Soviet reinvestigation happened afterwards but there's nothing really new there I mean people act like it's a new Theory but it's not really it's something people have proposed for a long time both an avalanche and sort of a slab Avalanche Theory and I think the thing to remember yeah okay fine you're using Frozen to show how it would happen but people knew about that it wasn't like we didn't know that slab Avalanches happened before this and one thing we tried to emphasize in our telling of the story is how tough and resilient and experienced these people were we we call them kids a lot but they really were they had done this many times and they really knew what they were doing they had dealt with adversity before so it just doesn't feel like a standard event on the mountain would cause them to do something that basically guaranteed their death it would seem like it had to be something that it was better to run or not even run to walk barefoot in you know two foot deep snow and minus degree wind chill then stay at the tent and I don't know what that is yeah yeah it's a tough one so what's your theory I don't know that I have a theory you know I my theory changes a lot I think I've been on the side of every Theory at at some point same here by the way yeah I I you know I liked the Russian the sort of thermobaric bomb theory I mean like a lot of them have injuries the major injuries suffered by the group that tried to build the shelter in the in the forest can be explained by them just falling into the Ravine and the snow falling on top of them so I'm not as interested in those injuries but if you look at the injuries on the other people who who died in different ways including by hypothermia they have these very strange injuries that don't make sense they have injuries that you know might seem typical of of being out in the woods but they also one of them one of the women has what appears to the world to be like a large bruise of the kind that you would have if you were struck with like a baton that's what it looks like and that has thrown a lot of people for a loop like was was she struck by somebody you know whether it was mancy or Soviet or whoever um there's just a lot of weirdness about the case that's really hard to explain I don't think it was a radioactive Yeti come on you know that's my theory was an avalanche though that always has to be a possibility I don't think you can ever rule out Avalanche completely but you know another thing that happened that was strange they're going over this pass one mountain over there's another group also from ucatan BG they're going over a different Mountain Pass they're camped that night they're looking in the direction of De pass and and they record contemporaneously all these strange lights in the sky like they're recording the fact that they're seeing these flashes they're seeing these yellow lights that they can't really explain and they don't think anything of it until they get back to you cinberg and the Outlaws group hasn't hasn't returned returns like something was going on over there that I think is a little bit more complex than they had a slab Avalanche and freaked out right right I think I learned uh one thing I definitely learned from di of pass kyber Dian and then there was another incident in the 70s don't go hiking in the Soviet mountains there you go thanks Brett I really appreciate you giving the update I know your listeners are going to love it my listeners are going to love it and uh I always love spending time with you so enjoyed it all right thank you sir this is a silver linings handbook podcast bonus episode we'll see you guys all again soon my dad works in B2B marketing he came by my school for career and said he was a big row ass man then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend my friends still laugh at me to this day not everyone gets B2B but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign go to linkedin.com reses to claim your credit that's linkedin.com SRS terms and conditions apply LinkedIn the place to be to be bada bada boom sold huh just sold my car on carvana dropping it off and getting paid today already what you still haven't sold yours you told me about it months ago I just is the offer good oh the offer is great don't have another car yet I could trade it in for this car I love come on what are we waiting for ah you're right let's go whether you're looking to sell your car right now or just whenever feels right go to carvana.com and sell your car the convenient way terms and conditions applytoday I've got a special treat in store I want to share this patreon bonus with you um these are the kinds of things that you can get it's only $3 a month uh to join our patreon um these are the kinds of things that you can get on there and I love this conversation so much that I just wanted to be able to share it with everyone all right here we go this is Silver Linings handbook podcast bonus episode with tally the author and co-host of the prosecutors podcast in March 2021 on the prosecutors podcast Brett and his co-host Alice Lor began a five-part series on the diet love pass incident the 1959 incident is where nine Soviet hikers cut their way out of their own tent and died mysteriously in the Euro mountains was it aliens was it a radioactive Yeti was it an avalance or is it something even more Sinister it's one of those fascinating Mysteries as we say in this bonus episode where oxom razor breaks a little background on the D Love pass incident in 1959 in seedlas oblast in the Soviet Union a group was formed for skiing Expeditions across the northern eural mountains eigor diof a 23-year-old radio engineering student at eural poly Technic Institute amassed a group of nine others for a trip to what was then known as dead Mountain each member of the group was experienced they were all grade two hikers with skiing experience and they would have all been eligible for grade three certification upon the return at the time grade three was the highest certification available in the Soviet Union and diet Love's group designed a route to reach the far Northern reaches of the o last the city committee on physical culture and Sport listed approval for 11 people even though there are only 10 in diet Love's group the 11th person was a former Soviet veteran who survived Leningrad and was added to the group's list at the last minute on January 27th the group began their Trek on the next day one member Yuri uden turned back because of knee and joint pain that made him unable to continue the hike the nine others continued up the mountain their Journey from there has been rebuilt through Diaries and pictures from cameras They Carried and evidence that was found along the way because the group never made it back even though they were expected to return a little bit after February 12th after they did not return on February 26th Searchers found the groups abandoned and badly damaged tent on dead Mountain the campsite baffled the surch party the tent was half torn down and covered in snow the groups belongings including shoes had been left behind prints of people who were wearing either a single shoe or just socks could be followed leading down to the edge of a nearby Woods on the opposite side of the pass there the first two bodies were found shoeless and dressed only in underwear then Searchers found three more bodies it took more than two months to find the other four in this discussion Brett and I are going to give you a little preview of De love past the incident and the Mysteries that surround it we're also going to talk a little bit about some of the theories that have come up since 2022 when the prosecutors uh appeared it and this episode this bonus episode goes quite well with the discussion that Brett and I had on the Main feed about our fascination with Mysteries I hope you all enjoy it so you know Brett I've mentioned to you before that uh D Love pass is one of my absolute favorites um among the uh prosecutors episodes your episodes like my children I love them all the same but you know some are more special but in dial pass uh you know the it's the story of these nine nine hikers in 1959 who head up on what seemed like would be a normal um uh a normal hike uh and and you know over overnight something very strange happened we do not know exactly what strange thing happened but all nine of the the the hikers were lost um you know not the kind of thing I would have expected on a True Crime podcast so I'm just curious like how did you become interested in it how did you even uh find out about this weird event in the Euro mountains so it's it is pretty interesting it was a story that wasn't well known in the west at all until the fall of the Soviet Union it was but it was something that in Russia was well known and and was a mystery that people had talked about for a long time then it comes over to the United States and and ends up you know I find it the way you find all information online basically an alytical I was I was reading crack.com and it was a uh mystery great Mysteries and their answers and they had an answer that is not the answer and that was the first time I'd ever read it and I thought wow this is so strange you got these nine young healthy experienced people they set out on this hike it's incredibly well documented it's not not they left and nobody saw them and then they ended up dead they're riding in their Diaries they've all got cameras they're taking pictures they make it a a really long way until they come to a place called the mountain of the Dead which is where they decide to to pitch their tent which turns out that's not quite as ominous as maybe you would think it's just what the local population the mancy call the mountain because nothing grows there it's like dead mountain right but nevertheless don't don't spend the night on dead mountain is the first lesson we learned from diaa P but you have these people it's they're on top of a mountain it's in winter it's very cold and for some reason in the middle of the night they they not only leave their tent but they cut their way out of their tent and go into the night not wearing some of them aren't wearing shoes some of them aren't wearing coats and they end up a mile away in a forest and then basically all die in different places suffering some of them some pretty extreme wounds and when the people found them the The Searchers found them they had no answer the Soviet government eventually closed the investigation and said they had succumbed to an unknown compelling force that was basically all they could say they couldn't even come up with anything also known that we have no idea yeah and we have no idea and then they tried to cover it up because that's what you do if you're the Soviets right but they couldn't they couldn't cover it up there were just too many family members there was one person who had been with them it's called deav pass because the leader of the group was eigor deav but there had been one person who had actually gotten a long way through the hike but then had suffered some physical ailments and turned back and so he for decades fought for his friends to find out what really happened to them and so it's become one of these great Mysteries that people people have all sorts of theories about one of the one of the really interesting things to me about the story in terms of like talking about the the cover up I I didn't realize it hadn't become popular until the or in the west until the fall of the Soviet Union which had been like what 92 something like that um the the or I guess really late 80s early 90s um as it started to fall or it started to open up and started to fall but one telling thing when I was reading about it in the books that makes me think that you know one of the theories is that you know maybe the Soviets were doing some kind of testing there or something something along those lines and somehow it impacted them like you know Obama dropped or whatever and it caused an avalanche but I had read in one of the books that they had actually closed the area for three years afterwards and I thought to myself closing something for three years does not sound like the Govern government knows what's going on look I mean that's that that's one of the one of the fascinating things about it is the government seems like they were afraid in some ways about what exactly was going on here they one of the the essentially the Attorney General of Russia the equivalent of that is overseeing this investigation the lead investigator the one who wrote the report saying it was an unknown compelling Force later on after the Soviet Union had fallen would write an article saying he thought he basically thought it was aliens and this is the lead investigator is like you know what oh wow was aliens so like that tells you how how bizarre this was and the fascinating thing about it is you have this this competition between sort of I'll say the aams razor approach because I think it is the Avalanche theory that the idea that this was just an avalanche you know they were on a mountain Avalanche that's what happened that is that is sort of the theory of people who don't know a lot about the case is how I would describe it like if you just look at it from very surface level you can come up with Avalanche theories that work but the people actually on the mountain yeah pick your T tent at an angle all everybody ends up dead tent's flattened sounds like an avalanche sounds like an avalanche right and recently there have been some it's it's one of those cases that's solved every few years every few years there'll be an article do I love pass finally solved and there was around a couple years ago there were some guys who used basically the technology from Frozen which I think is fascinating to simulate avalanches and they came up with a theory that it was what they called slab Avalanche which basically they sorted ordinarily you would not have an avalanche on that mountain it's one of the problems it's not steep enough but they were like if they dug in the tent on the side of the mountain they could have had a slab AV lanch and it would have covered the tent and every would have freaked them out and they would have ran one of the problems with that theory is these were experienced people they had done this a lot they knew about things like slab avalanches and they would have known I mean the the key here is leaving that tent basically unclothed in below zero temperature was as close to ding just deciding to die as you could so whatever it was that caused them to do that had to be so bad that that was the better alternative and so you have to believe that they the slav Avalanche happened it's a relatively minor Avalanche but they have a lot of snow on the tent but rather than spending some time to dig some stuff out from the tent like coats and shoes and everything else they just went ahead and said well shoot you know another Avalanche might come so let's flee into the darkness without any close on and let's do it in a way that is not how you would flee an area where you were fearing an avalanche which makes you think that they were spooked by something right or compelled to do it I mean there's one of the problems with it it's like so many cases you are dependent on the facts as reported to you by unreliable narrators you know people often say we talked about the testing well maybe it could have been in testing maybe obom went off people say well yeah but they didn't find any any shrapnel if it had been a bomb that had gone off and the Soviets realized that they would not have included in their reports we found yeah they wouldn't have needed the shrap they would have known and you have all this this weird stuff things like one of the one of the things that has always fascinated me is you have the makeup of this group we talking about how there were nine people eight of them were good friends who all went to this school together they' known each other for forever they plan this hike with their buddy the the by the way something just dawned I mean as you're talking and I'm thinking about your episodes you literally did this like a profiler with you you have the victimology right you know their experience their personalities you have the crime scene you're like literally and you're just trying to find a perp but go on well I mean I'm convinced that when you look at these Mysteries you look at them this is every mystery whether it's a murder or something like this is the same in how you approach it and so I think that is the way to approach it if you're trying to figure out what happened but you have these eight people who are very all connected then you have one guy who was much older who was a who was a veteran of the second world war who survived Stalingrad who was basically forced on this group at the last minute zerov is his name a lot of people have wondered if he might have been KGB operative or something along those lines he had a camera that nobody knew about so all these people had cameras but there he had two he had the one that everybody saw and then he had another one that night he was wearing that camera and he is actually found when he's found dead he's found with a camera around his neck now imagine for a second that the slab Avalanche theory is what happened and they're all sleep in their tent slab Avalanche comes down they're like oh my goodness we're covered in snow they freak out they all flee would Zev have grabbed his secret camera and put it around his neck to flee that doesn't seem likely he also was wearing he was wearing hiso he had his clothes on unlike the rest of them he was pretty much fully dressed and when he was found he was found with a notebook in one hand and a pencil in the other now he had not written anything at least according to the Soviets but I mean just his existence and everything about him is one of the reasons that that even if the Avalanche theory is the simplest Theory and you would think ordinarily that's what happened that's the thing about de Outlaw pass it's so fascinating the simplest Theory actually isn't that satisfying when you look at all the evidence yeah it doesn't wait it actually oxom Razer breaks because the simplest Theory it can't possibly that's that's really interesting because I hadn't thought about it that way that you know if you're sitting in the tent and because I I can get it right like if you or if you could buy into the idea that um uh that that he something happens startles them or someone comes ac across them or there's some kind of emergency it would make sense that he would grab the secret camera um to protect it maybe or to hide it if let's say uh real people were there right like uh they were getting raided by someone or something like that but it doesn't really make sense that we grab the notebook the pencil and the and the people if it had been an a Avalanche that had been coming for for them and you know and and so you're almost looking at every victim in this story in the way that they're found and how they died and what they had with them and and the pieces to the puzzle just don't really come together easily I know people speculated Beyond Avalanche about um about other things like uh catabatic winds as a possibility I knew nothing about them I don't think I had ever heard of them until I read about D pass but they're like these they're these really high density air that comes shooting down they don't necessarily they're not necessarily going to cause an avalanche but they could be disorienting is that the idea behind that one because they can get to like hurricane speeds or something along those lines yeah and they're actually it's interesting because they're necessary for the whole slab Theory to even work you have these kind of wins and it's the catabatic win theory is is is pretty good just because it can basically be like you're in a tornado and it has to be something that was either so compelling or so terrifying that they would do the thing they did that they would flee the way they did but also in the weirdest way because you think you know they're cutting their way out of their tent they're fleeing in Terror into the night but that's not actually what they did it seems like based on the evidence they all kind of gathered near the tent but didn't go recover their stuff I mean even if the tent is under snow some snow if you're standing there not wearing any clothes surely you would try and get something out of the tent to take with you the other problem is the tent itself while it was a little collapsed and did have some snow on top of it it wasn't flattened and it wasn't moved out of out of place in any way and the stuff in the tent wasn't Disturbed so it wasn't like it did not look chaotic in the tent you know there were still like cups of coffee sitting you know Frozen yeah cuz you would expect it all to be knocked over right exactly and that didn't happen so you have these people who leave the tent they stand there for a little while and then they head down the mountain and a and basically a single file line walking down this mountain which isn't was that what you would do if you were fleeing in Terror from an avalanche probably I don't know it's just so bizarre yeah unless there's like some reason like that an experienced hiker knows that they would do that but they were skiers right did they take their they didn't take their skis did they no they didn't they so they had used their skis as like the bottom of the tent so that's what they would do is they would use their ski poles to kind of hold the tin up and in fact one of the ski Poes that they that you see in the very last picture they took where they're setting up the tent you see the ski pole in the picture where the Russians have found the T T the ski pole is sitting stuck in the snow exactly where it was in that other picture so you got to believe that this Avalanche that came down did not move this ski pole like it somehow managed this without moving the ski pole and you can see that with your own two eyes so luy be true yeah lucky ski pole and but their skis were all underneath the other thing sitting on top of the tent was a flashlight that was off so like huh got this this flashlight sitting on top of the tent how did it get there why is it still there there's all sorts of stuff there's missing knives there's there are things that are there that shouldn't have been there just and then when you read about what they did when they got down to the bottom they basically they built this fire and then they what the fire is usually that take you off the ground right like so you're not or is that what it was what what was the fire the fire the fire fire okay okay they climb the tree yes that's what it climb the tree and you can tell that basically they climb high enough that they that they should be able to see the tent they're like climbed up to look back to the tent is what it seems like happened which is a weird thing to do for several reasons number one it is the middle of the night there it's pitch black if you assume there's catabatic winds would you even be able to see anything the only way you'd be able to see anything is if something's going on up there with some illumination right but they do that and then a few of them go off into the forest to try and build sort of a a a temporary shelter three of them at that point try and head back to the tent which is also a weird thing to do if you worried about an avalanche and you were so worried about it you fled they die on the way they don't make it and the ones who tried to build the shelter run into really terrible luck it seems like what happened is they're building the shelter not realizing they're on basically a void and it collapses and they all fall into this into this Ravine and then all the snow falls on top of them and and they die as well so certainly sounds like they were looking back at the tent needed to go back to the tent for some reason or felt like they needed to go back to the temp for reason which makes you sort of feel like they rushed out left some things that they might need like shoes for example um and but but before they went back they wanted to check something out right they didn't just wait up there to like see if there's really an avalanche or anything they didn't do that right they went ahead and did then and fled so you're not buying the Havana syndrome Theory have you heard this one that it was infrasound lowf frequency sound that of course havan syndrome being that someone is blasting people with low frequency sounds and it happens to be lots of Americans and happens to be happening in places where there are lots of Russians that's more recent but that was one of the theories that I heard that like maybe some low frequency sound testing doesn't seem to that one doesn't seem to explain some of the behavior so Danny akt in his book I think it's called Dead Mountain talks about this a lot and he makes a pretty compelling argument for the shape of the mountain and where they were with the catabatic winds blowing against that shape would create infrasound and then infrasound can really mess mind what you would have to have I think for something like that to work obviously it's not going to make all of them lose their minds and flee into the snow and I think people generally push back on that by saying wouldn't have affected all of them but what you could imagine is if it affected the important ones like imagine the and zerov imagine they kind of lost it they probably could have gotten everybody else to follow along with them if you know if if they if they all of a sudden are like rushing into the tent freaking out saying we got to get out we got to get out and the other people might just do it because they're used to just following these guys and doing what they say so I don't know that's a possibil you see yeah you see it in the military all the time if you know a leader thinks somebody's being shot on everyone responds like they being shot on um I I can think about I I covered the Amo shooting which you know we were talking about Mysteries before it's less of a mystery it would been more interesting if it were more complicated mystery but ultimately what we found out at the end was one guy who was one of the leaders of the street crime unit tripped and as soon as he tripped the sound that was made everyone thought he was being fired on so as soon as number two leader in the group started firing everybody just fired right so and it's that idea that if our leaders are encouraging us to do something we trust them we just might do it but what about the mancy the the indigenous people who were there I because I know di past that whole area dead Mountain you know there were certain rules or certain Legends or beliefs that the mancy had about where you could go how far you could go other things like that had has anybody put a credible theory that the mancy I know they helped afterwards with the search um were were a part of it well it's it's it's interesting because the Soviets quashed squashed the mancy theory very quickly because they had actually spent a lot of time trying to build relationships with the mancy and sort of have everybody sympatico with them and so they were not interested in being atherion so they put out things that people still repeat to this day that they didn't really care about that mountain it wasn't a sacred Mountain it wasn't a holy site but there have been some other people who've done some research into it who say essentially really there were two groups of mancy this is not surprising it's kind of like you know know it's kind of like saying the American Indians and not realizing there's a thousand different tribes right and the mancy who helped were the ones who were pretty friend friendly and were sort of more modern and were less superstitious but there was another group of mancy who were much more sort of still in the old ways right and at least what some of these people say is that the mountain actually was sacred and that there weren't supposed to be on that mountain and in particular women weren't supposed to be on that mountain and there were two women in the group and that if they had seen that they would have felt compelled to punish that and there's some good books you may own some of them um oh God there's one on deav path I think it's called death of nine maybe um yeah there is one but that's of n um and it it really goes into the mancy thing and explains this in a in a much better way that may not be the book but I think it's like Sana Os or something is the one who wrote it you're you're really testing my memory on the de pass of this you're better than me right what I think because it happens to be near me I think it's it looks like Anderson on the spine of death there's Lon Anderson is death of nine Zana o she she wrote one of the books and it's really her book is is great because it starts off with um after the fall of the Soviet Union uh go what was his name not Vladimir Putin but the guy before him Boris borison yeah Boris yelton was a graduate of yurg University and was fascinated by this and and wanted to figure out exactly what happened don't go there the mystery of De love pass by sevet Lana a it's a really good book did anyways back to the manyy so the theory is this this group of mancy would have gone up there they would have forced them off the mountain they basically would have then cut up their tent so that they couldn't go back to it so it wasn't actually cut up when they left it was cut up to keep them from being able to use that tin again they were very good at covering their tracks so one of the one of the things that people often say is it couldn't have been somebody else because there are no tracks of another person but the the mancy knew how to cover that so they would have done that then they would have left and so the theory is the man are up there destroying the tent the hikers have gone down the bottom of the mountain they've climbed to the top of the tree they're watching they see the mancy leave at that point the three try and go back but don't make it nah not quite what's up H sell my car in carvana it's just not quite the right time crazy coincidence I just sold my car to Carana what I told you about it 2 days ago when you know you know you know I'm even dropping it off at one of those sweet car vending machines and getting paid today that's a good deal a great deal come on what's your heart saying you're right when you know you know sold whether you're looking to sell your car right now or just whenever feels right go to carvana and sell your car the convenient way terms and conditions apply at your job do you ever have to deal with a nose roller how about a snub pulley well if you're installing a new conveyor belt system dealing with the different components can sound like you're speaking a foreign language luckily you've got a team ready to help Grangers technical product Specialists are fluent in maintenance repair and operations so whenever you want to talk shop just Reach Out call click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done that's sort of the man Theory so they like something like they could have died of hypothermia then the tree collapses or or or or they fall the others fall into the void are the mancy is that is that the book that goes into there was a story at some point because in the Soviet Union they had a lot of women who were leaders where you know they sended delegation out to meet with the mancy they tell them not to have a woman leader am I making this up in my head nope you're not okay okay okay I was thinking did I make up this story and they and they go out there and the Soviets bring a woman with them and the man's here like oops right and they they ended up killing the party right they do and then the retaliation by the Soviets was incredibly vicious and they wiped out a whole bunch bunch of the mancy and that was one of the reasons they wanted to reestablish things with them because this area was actually really important it was a logging area provided a lot of a lot of lumber for the Soviets but it also was a really important area for mining to the extent that compasses don't work very well there because there's so much iron ore and magnetized iron ore in that area that your compos don't work and this was something the diaa pass group ran into to and talked about and they actually were a little bit off their course of where they wanted to be which is one of the reasons they ended up doing what they did so really they should have gotten to the bottom of the mountain the day before camped out there and then the next day climbed to to the top of the mountain and gone through the now Bears de's name but they were behind schedule so they ended up trying to go up halfway and camping where they did to try and make up time which is not a normal place you would Camp you camp at the base or camp on the camp on the other side what about the idea of uh an animal attack well there's a couple animals that have been suggested I know one of them most famously yetis which apparently at least According to some people are radioactive and that's important because there's radiation found on the club of some of the hikers and there's this one Theory made famous in a Discovery Channel documentary called Russian Yeti the killer lives that these yetis radioactive for some reason were in the area they attack the diatlov group that's what caused them to flee is because you'd flee too if you saw radioactive Yeti and so that's one of the theories I would say that is definitely a fringe Theory there's another one that a wolverine got into the tent but I think once again radioactive Wolverine just a regular Wolverine radioactivity is kind of throwing off all the theories yeah and I mean look this group of people was fascinating because two of them had worked at the uh a nuclear power plant just south of eatan BG which was the source of the kushum incident which was the worst nuclear disaster in the world until Chernobyl they covered it up so most people didn't know about it and two of them had been involved in sort of decontaminating that area and that's one reason we think that they had radiation on their clothes is because they had been exposed to so much who had radiation but it explains that at least yep yep and that there could be some some transfer now has there ever been I was gonna ask you two other things has there ever been uh similar similar inance I know we we talked in the episode about the kimar deban incident but has there been a similar incident in the US that I can only think of like the was it uh the hikers in California or were there hikers in California so it's you're thinking of the Yuba County 5 ah those are the five guys that drove up the mountain yes which we have not covered that case we need to it's often called America's DIA pass and it involves similar things in that you have these people who are doing inexplicable things that end up costing them their lives and and it's on top of a mountain in the middle of a snowstorm there's a lot of similarities to it but there are some pretty Stark differences as well but that's that's one that people often point to is a similar one you mentioned the Kamar David in incident which happened near Lake ball and in that case there was a ser suror unlike both Yubba County and DEA pass there was a Survivor and the fact there was a Survivor makes it even crazier because she tells you exactly what happened and and you still don't know what happened right but yeah but you have a better idea there right like something some kind of contaminated at least we know um could do you think diov could have been the same thing like some kind of chemical weapon or something like that that they it's a theory I mean there's so they had to file their plan with the local hiking group so they're at school innburg they have to file this where they're going to go they have to certify it it's one of the reasons you know they were able to find them because they had the plan and some people speculated that obviously the Soviet government would have then known where they were going and then if if if there was some sort of testing going on they could have been sort of Lab Rats for this testing like oh look we have a group of people let's see what happens if we you know drop this nerve gas on them what will they do how will they react is that likely I don't know I think it is interesting something you mentioned that they then closed the mountain for three years afterwards the government basically said no one can go there for another three years I mean that's a that's an interesting response by the government yep yep it doesn't really strike me as uh they entirely know what happened although you know if there was something on the mountain that was secret whether it's chemical weapons or whether it was near let's say near a testing site or whatever it could have been it could have been off the mountain it might explain why they had the extra hiker but that's the thing about Mysteries are so interesting to me not every fact is actually always relevant to solving the mystery like literally the Soviet government could have added the extra hiker on purpose because of some secret thing and it could have zero to do with what actually happened to them um and yeah that's why these things are so hard to solve is there an official Russian government explanation so the Russian government did a reinvestigation a couple years ago and basically Reit rated the Avalanche Theory basically said slab Avalanche that's what happened you know they freaked out they went down to the bottom of the mountain and then died and that was their their Theory it was not well received by the survivors and their family um the survivors or the the surviving family because they weren't survivors uh and the and the guy the guy who who put it together I guess the reaction was so bad that in typical Russian fashion he was fired and sent to Siberia so some things don't change so since you guys did your episodes when were your episodes were they 2022 a while at least 22 maybe even 21 I'm not sure it's been a while H so what new have you learned since the episodes what what updates are there any closer to solving it I mean like you said it solved every every year the the official Soviet reinvestigation happened afterwards but there's nothing really new there I mean people act like it's a new Theory but it's not really it's something people have proposed for a long time both an avalanche and sort of a slab Avalanche Theory and I think the thing to remember yeah okay fine you're using Frozen to show how it would happen but people knew about that it wasn't like we didn't know that slab Avalanches happened before this and one thing we tried to emphasize in our telling of the story is how tough and resilient and experienced these people were we we call them kids a lot but they really were they had done this many times and they really knew what they were doing they had dealt with adversity before so it just doesn't feel like a standard event on the mountain would cause them to do something that basically guaranteed their death it would seem like it had to be something that it was better to run or not even run to walk barefoot in you know two foot deep snow and minus degree wind chill then stay at the tent and I don't know what that is yeah yeah it's a tough one so what's your theory I don't know that I have a theory you know I my theory changes a lot I think I've been on the side of every Theory at at some point same here by the way yeah I I you know I liked the Russian the sort of thermobaric bomb theory I mean like a lot of them have injuries the major injuries suffered by the group that tried to build the shelter in the in the forest can be explained by them just falling into the Ravine and the snow falling on top of them so I'm not as interested in those injuries but if you look at the injuries on the other people who who died in different ways including by hypothermia they have these very strange injuries that don't make sense they have injuries that you know might seem typical of of being out in the woods but they also one of them one of the women has what appears to the world to be like a large bruise of the kind that you would have if you were struck with like a baton that's what it looks like and that has thrown a lot of people for a loop like was was she struck by somebody you know whether it was mancy or Soviet or whoever um there's just a lot of weirdness about the case that's really hard to explain I don't think it was a radioactive Yeti come on you know that's my theory was an avalanche though that always has to be a possibility I don't think you can ever rule out Avalanche completely but you know another thing that happened that was strange they're going over this pass one mountain over there's another group also from ucatan BG they're going over a different Mountain Pass they're camped that night they're looking in the direction of De pass and and they record contemporaneously all these strange lights in the sky like they're recording the fact that they're seeing these flashes they're seeing these yellow lights that they can't really explain and they don't think anything of it until they get back to you cinberg and the Outlaws group hasn't hasn't returned returns like something was going on over there that I think is a little bit more complex than they had a slab Avalanche and freaked out right right I think I learned uh one thing I definitely learned from di of pass kyber Dian and then there was another incident in the 70s don't go hiking in the Soviet mountains there you go thanks Brett I really appreciate you giving the update I know your listeners are going to love it my listeners are going to love it and uh I always love spending time with you so enjoyed it all right thank you sir this is a silver linings handbook podcast bonus episode we'll see you guys all again soon my dad works in B2B marketing he came by my school for career and said he was a big row ass man then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend my friends still laugh at me to this day not everyone gets B2B but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign go to linkedin.com reses to claim 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