"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to the Apple Insider podcast I'm Victor and joining me is my good friend my dear friend William Gallagher hello how you doing I am fantastic and I'm so glad you're here that's 2 weeks into the year already don't say such things you know when I'm talking to you the time just goes okay what are you getting me for Christmas it hasn't gone that quickly yet it's 2 weeks into the year okay I'm staring up the new Phillips Hue Lights or something you know get in early do you like Phillips Hue Lights I do my own sole problem with them and we have quite a few in the house is they're not quite bright enough uh things like the living room uh stuff we need a lamp or two as well so I'd like them a little bit brighter but of all the homekit stuff I do uh Philip sh has been the most reliable so interesting interesting it I you know I have a couple I have about five of their bulbs and I don't use a single one all right that's what you're getting me for Christmas then send them over sorted 120 volt bulbs for England yeah you'll like that oh oh and they uh they have the screw thread instead of the bayonet thread so no you'll really get on well well actually our house is old enough that yeah that would be a problem uh more modern houses in the UK also use the screw fit thing um do they really I'm not going to move house yeah I'm not going to move house for oh no I actually I bought a whole set of adapters so we can use uh um whichever way around it was that sh which Bayon it to screw or screw to Bayon it we can do anything here yes well we've got a while to fix it you're sure I'm just stunned that you can do anything but um I you know that is a that is a common criticism amazing of of the Hue Lights is that they just aren't bright enough and that's something that Hughes addressed over time although I don't know if they've dressed it sufficiently uh My Philosophy has always been to put the smarts in the wall switch as opposed to putting them in the bulb and my reasoning has been that if you turn on and off the switch when the when the smarts are in the bulb then it means that your bulb no longer gets power and can't respond to commands but if you put the smarts in the wall switch then it works just like a wall switch has worked for the past Century all right now but in that case uh US housing is an issue because I think it happens that British design has whatever it is that's needed to C power to it but us ones you can be there or not and it's expensive if you haven't got it um no I I'm not sure because when I in any case there are in wall switches for England yes and so maybe that'll be my gift to you that's nice I've got a birthday coming slightly soon but I'm sorry I'll let you down a pat there cuz uh we actually have a nice video on Apple Insider about the new range of bulbs and they look very nice I just you don't know till you get them home how bright they are so that was what was on my mind sorry for totally valid concern for people yes now let's talk about something that you and I have thought talked about in the past we've thought a lot about this a new patent describes the use of applications across multiple screens such as iPhone and MacBook Pro but it also seems to suggest that Apple hasn't completely ruled out the possibility of a touchscreen MacBook Pro yes I wrote the story about this on apptis so I read the patent application and actually of all the apple patons of ever at it was the most phenomenally complicated to understand uh but right there in the middle really clear was this thing that it did include a description of how to do these various things is describing with a touchscreen Apple laptop I actually think it is just the patent writers are doing this thing of making it as wide ranging as possible rather than Apple really tipping the wig but it's right there plain as day right so that's what you what you just said as the truth that when you write a patent when you when you've come up with something that you you've invented that you think is patentable you want to be as comprehensive as possible and you do this so that for a couple of reasons one is defensive where if someone else does it then you can say nope sorry you're violating our patent you're infringing you have to license it from us you have to pay a fee now and the other thing is is and of course if you go to court there can be punitive fees involved in that too the the other thing is that if some of the claims are uh what's the word if if some of the claims are struck down for examp example the rest of the patent can survive if you've done enough oh no I didn't realize that okay I thought once you'd pierced the uh uh patent you were safe or do what you like or something but it's um uh more compartmental yeah than that no so when you make a patent you make several claims of what you're covering and you so you write down not just the implementation that you you invented first but all of the different variants of it and all of different applications of it so that you're really covering the whole thing comprehensively and if one of those claims gets struck the rest of the patent survives yeah um I've just looked up this one and there are 22 separate claims within it and actually that was by far uh look at the scroll bar on my screen the 22 claims which are very detailed take up less than a tenth of the length of the P not including uh 50 odd diagrams and things it's thorough this thing yes but in there you know there's this I I'm on the side that doesn't particularly want a touchscreen Mac I have a friend who has a touchscreen uh PC and actually when she uses it um it's good I like it but I wouldn't myself so what about you where' you sit you know it's it's a tough one because I just there have been times where I've touched at my Mac screen after using an iPad for extended periods of time yes I think we may all have done but it's I I work more efficiently personally through the keyboard and trackpad right to be fair this PN really is uh intended to be chiefly about using multiple devices together and that does include at one point laptop with a trackpad how you can use the two together but I tell you it gets into very complicated are and of course if you're using something like duet display you know then you could use your iPad and touchscreen essentially your Mac display yeah actually there's a whole section in this about uh using two displays where uh uh the patent is for a way to determine where your focus of attention is so that if you are watching a video on a big screen but you're controlling the playback on your iPhone for example it knows where to display the information right where does the controller Go versus where does the video go and and also where audio should route uh there's nothing that I know in audio about this but Yesa that's I mean that's that's the the issue and and we see that today as you that's true good point yes okay very cool patent we'll look to see and of course if anything does develop there we'll tell you all about it now last week we told you something that happened with the FBI didn't we we has the FBI been doing things again well they don't stop do they well especially not once they have a a case to prosecute right or or an investigation and neither does the FBI okay which may explain some of their reasoning here um so the the sum of the story is that there was a shooting in Pensacola last year and the alleged actor there had an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 7 and the justice department first reported to Apple that they had one of those devices I think it was the iPhone 5 but I could be mistaken and apple provided the iCloud data and and and helped with that and then two months later something like that the Department of Justice the FBI came back and said oh there's also this iPhone 7 can you please help us with that and Apple dutifully provided all of the information that was available in iCloud for that and the F said no no no no we want you to unlock these phones unlock both of them and what been a shift change at the FBI since uh 2016 when Apple last refused to do this and they just genuinely don't know what Apple's going to say I think they do know exactly what Apple's going to say and that they they just want to see if public uh the the public sentiment has changed and aligns with them now and they can maybe do better than they did last time that's interesting isn't it I do think Apple did a a very good job of explaining I think I said this to you even last week that such a complicated issue such an emotive issue and apple explained the longer view really well for and presumably being positioned to have to do so again or attempt to do so right so the the justice department and the FBI are asking for the same exact thing that they asked for last time and they're using some of the same language for example a uh a justice department spokesman wrote in an email Apple designed these phones and implemented their encryption it's a simple front door request will Apple help us get into the shooter's phones or not now Last Time Around in 2016 when Apple said that that no they were not going to write special software with a back door for the justice department the J responded saying we want a front door we don't want a back door okay I missed that actually so right is there is that just an FBI created term or is there a technical thing go to front door there is not okay I mean if we think about this analogy if we think about the this this analogy right if in your home the back door is the door that you the homeowner tend to go through right the front door is the door that you might open for guests or solicitors or you know whatever right anyone who very different in the UK yeah the back door is when you head out into the garden trash but no one no strangers are coming through your garden are they no that's well not recently not that we've noticed worrying me now it's not locked in typical British Society in in among homeowners no one no one just wanders into your garden and comes through the back door do they no I have an urgent need to say that by the time anybody hears this that back door will be locked Okay carry yes and and but if someone were coming to your home and wanted to oh I don't know sell you something like new windows for your house they would they would knock on the front door yes they would yes if you had guests coming to the house if you had people coming over for tea what door would they enter through oh absolutely the first cuz we've yeah we we rather than Tiding we dump everything towards the back door I'm revealing too much here yes the front door is is the nice door for visitors and so that's what the justice department is trying to to twist around here is that they don't they don't want something that is the back door that is that is the the the um non public they want they want a a nice open front door invitation okay now the thing is is that the justice department knows full well that unless Apple changes iOS and exposes everyone that that this is not happening that this is actually impossible and further right this this is because this is something that doesn't exist the Justice smart is asking for it as if it were something that already existed and could just be handed over but it doesn't this is something that would have to be custom written for the justice department and the people who want there to be a law that compels Apple basically are saying that they want the government to be able to compel Apple to do work for free right now what what is it called when you when you force someone to work for free against their will uh them being a writer in in a very bad economy no well I suppose so but I was aiming at something a little more incentive okay with my rightous Guild had on let me just say free is not an option that's our current campaign but yes I see a point it's um what is it what's the word uh servitude um servitude thank you is that is that a good word another one yeah that works can you think of another one uh something about forcing something um I can't think yeah what the phrase is but yes it's uh altogether un we'll say with that yeah yeah and you know the question then is is the Justice depart spokeswoman either ignorant or lying and and you'd like to think that people at the level of being justice department spokeswoman are not ignorant so there actually I think you may well have misinterpreted something here because there is a front door way in that does already exist because this week uh don't you have the articles of impeachment of the president and there was this um extra evidence and that included uh slew of information taken from somebody's uh iPhone but that somebody actually handed over the phone so that person elected to give the information that's a a front door all criminals should just be nice and handed over unless of course the um law enforcement has already rendered them unable to log into their phone right or to be fair I understand some criminals actually shoot their iPhones I assume in some sort of protective manner rather than just annoyance at Siri today but yes so you know there's a range of possibilities there is now president Trump tweeted as he tends to do frequently and by the time this airs by the time you're listening to this he may well have tweeted again he may have tweeted 20 times or more since that since we've recorded this but he issued a tweet he posted a tweet that said oh dear I had it open here um we are helping Apple all the time on trade and so many other issues and yet they refuse to unlock phones used by Killers drug dealers and other violent criminal elements they will have to step up to the plate and help our great country now make America great again to be fair that is US president supporting uh the FBI wouldn't any president have done something like that well so that's interesting because this particular president has not been entirely supportive of the FBI historically and that's true I'd forgotten that ah so so that's interesting and and which is it right the FBI are these terrible bungler were completely unfair to him or they're doing great and and Apple's the bad guy here that now there's something else here at work which I think is interesting to comment on we are helping Apple all of the time they will have to step up to the plate and help our great country now so what kind of of an arrangement is he suggesting there because it feels to me like he's saying that that this is an arrangement where he's he's sort of saying we have done this and now we are asking for that yeah I mean not to go too far down the political side of this but I don't this doesn't feel to me like a Ukrainian quid pro quow thing this is um it's just you know talking about all the times he talks with apple I just I don't think it was a contractually specific kind of thing um but you know I am all the way over in UK in the UK and we have our own mess of problem so I do miss a lot of the uh detail in the states yeah well this this is a very TR transactional tweet let's say that's how it reads to me but this this is the the issue uh Apple denied the Department of Justice request uh unit us attorney general bar has basically said that Apple hasn't provided any substantive assistance on this investigation Apple rejects that characterization uh Trump does imply this sort of this for that tit fortat relationship with his administration and his of trade and so many other issues suggests that Apple should respond in kind for favorable consideration in the ongoing China trade War actually we can cut to something here yeah what's do you think is going to happen next well um the way this worked out the last time was that Apple refused and Tim Cook vowed to fight in in court the doj withdrew its demands just before the court Showdown that would have set legal preced over this and so the question is either the doj believes now that they can set that legal precedent and things will go their way or they um are are just willing to take the risk and go forward okay and I would I would say that it's a very you it's a different set of people in charge of the doj than there was back in 2016 it's a different um different approach to government and so it it remains to be seen what will actually happen here I expect Apple's pos position to remain the same the question is whether the doj will back down or not right well interesting to follow I guess and you know one of the the questions is would they be heard in a a court with a judge that had been appointed by Trump and if they had would that change things it shouldn't it it shouldn't but that's a question we could ask Point feel like I'm heading out of my depth at the moment on this one so I'm just the the let's let's talk about the technology side of this for a moment right this is an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 7 yeah you'd think criminals would be more up to date than an iPhone 5 well I mean there's that but the FBI has recently accessed locked iPhone 11 Pro Maxes with gr Key's third party tool right so you think so the an iPhone 5 should be a duddle oh well so first of all everything up into including an iPhone 10 was hackable because of a bug that was in the hardware and so you could access yeah we've talked about this in the past and so i' forgotten that sorry yeah okay scary thoughts right so which is what makes an uh XS or an XR or newer so much better is is that those don't have that bug and an iPhone 5 and an iPhone everyone can unlock those everyone right there is there is nothing prevents the FBI from or the doj from using gray key or using celite because they've all got these tools for thones that old so the question is is um what will happen here now in the 2016 case the doj claimed that they' exhausted all their internal and external options meaning that Apple's expertise was the only way forward and that apple had provide the assistance and they're claiming that again even though last time they went ahead and said okay fine we can get it and they use celebrate okay so it doesn't really feel like a uh technical discussion here it is a political one it really is it really is but celebrite for their part was recently used by the FBI um well they were they been used by the FBI but they were recently used in terms of getting data off of the phone owned by love Partners yes he's the fellow who who did it in the end hand over the phone so yeah that doesn't feel like a massive uh security extraction hacking thing warrant worthy of a film it found it feels more like a well I mean cut and past the the celebrate the question is did he give the passcode or fingerprint or face ID to unlock the phone or did he just hand over the phone but in any case celbrate was used to extract all of the messaging data from the phone including uh encrypted messaging applications like WhatsApp something I like actually about this information is in this modern world that information is available to us all to read I mean it's acted in Parts but uh you can see the conversations yourself you an approximate translation from Russian things I think that's fascinating that you know uh not very long ago that wouldn't have been possible and now we can have the information use it and understand what's going on in the world that's cool yeah yay for technology then definitely am I looking for the last week you were all about happiness am I the one trying to be positive this week you want to talk about something that did make me happy this week depends what it is actually but edly yes so Spike Jones is working on a documentary called the beasty boy story oh right yes now first of all are you you're a fan I mean I I I wouldn't be remiss to say No Sleep till Brooklyn or or Paul's Boutique or um I could name tons of beasty boy stuff that I enjoy I was going say I didn't know whether that was Beasty Boys or Spike Jones stuff those those are be boys now Spike Jones has done a number of things but one of the ones that sticks out in my memory is the music video that he did for uh fat boy Slims right here right now oh is that the one that's uh in a shopping mall and people dancing incredibly badly or something yeah yeah that was great yes look things that make me smile don't have to be executed in with with people dancing greatly right okay right but it doesn't help it's what you I'm say I'm saying that that made me smile that I like the beast boys and I like Spike Jones and I enjoyed this and so the documentary is is basically the personal story of the band and 40 Years of friendship and it's through the the lens of Mike Diamond and Adam horvitz an interesting story and one of the things about that band you so many so many bands cash in on um the licensing of their music yeah and the Beasty Boys have expressly not given permission to any to use their music for anything I currently walk around our local supermarket wearing airpods Pro playing my choice of Music rather than the supermarkets one so I I would have missed if they were in hasda in the UK but you're saying nowhere are the Beasty Boys they they have never allowed any Advertiser to use their music okay cool I think so that should be enjoyable if if you if you enjoy things like I do that might be a good one um actually sorry am I right that Spike Jones uh uh did Charlie kofman's Being John malovich that was that script in that film was amazing how long ago that was that was definitely a good script absolutely but I'm I can't remember if you worked on that we're going to say he did okay sounds good to me right in addition to that there's also going to be an animated series about a family of caretakers who live and work in New York's Central Park um that's going to be created by that's created by Lauren bashard who's the the Mind behind many animated shows uh including Bob's Bergers um it's going to have Josh Gad Leslie odm Jr Titus Buress uh Kristen Bell Stanley Tucci D Diggs and kathern hun as stars Kristen Bell uh she's in everything it's great yeah and she she is uh the legend that is Veronica Mars as well among among many other things oh actually I have never tuned into a show or watched a film because of who was in the cast or even who's directed it occasionally because of who WR wait wait so what about the good place I just tried it CU I fancied a new comedy I was not bothered by her or um Ted Danson even though I assume they'd both be good and actually they were okay and and lastly there's a docu series called home that takes a look inside the world's most Innovative homes and unveils Boundary pushing imagination of visionary who Dar to dream and build them I wonder and this is just my guess but I'm wondering if we'll see things like homekit in any of these things I was just trying to think what could possibly be Innovative about homes that hasn't been shown before on the countless home shows but yes I mean you've got you've got the The Marvelous swimming pool that's a third floor swimming pool can't delivered over a Cliff's Edge and all that kind of stuff yeah done that seen that seen it yeah um so it I don't know okay I don't that's a differentiat that would be fun you know it would be it would be it would be certainly a way to expose people to the idea that here's this marvelous architectural work and by the way all of the outfittings respond to the owner by smart devices like homepod and to be fair I think it's a way to get audiences because aren't we all a little bit drawn into houses for years I've been hoping that um hgtv's uh tour of sus Vegas's New York apartment would be on YouTube or iTunes or somewhere so you know I'm I've been pursuing that and unable to see it in the UK uh is it just me as a sucker for this stuff are you looking at me like it is okay well there are many people who enjoy home shows they're they're easy fluff to watch there's nothing controversial about them um and and they're enjoyable social com it's like sugar water it's candy drama and that's okay very character revealing what who's tided up the best yes or or the you know the the flip it kind of shows where it's the love it or listed thing you know you uh you you agree that if you don't like how someone redecorates your home you will go ahead or remodels your home that you will sell it and have to move okay I didn't know those oh yeah just knew well that that injects some drama into the the genre right instead of just we're going to borrow this person's fantastic home and spend a night here and tell you all about it and all the features kind of thing um it's it's the drama of they're going to like what we do and versus Team I'm going to show them a bunch of houses and they'll buy one it won't matter there was a patch here in the UK about God 20 years ago now where there was a show called changing rooms one called Garden force or something and they would come in and they would radically change a room or a garden and it was quite entertaining seeing the the poor person come back and pretend to be pleased oh oh so there were some we had one here called Monster House so we had one here called Monster House and monster house is based on a show called monster monster cars or something like that and and basically the concept was that instead of remodeling it for something nice and sensible that you could actually live with they would remodel it in some wild unimaginable way some like futuristic thing or or something like that and they did this to uh there was a couple where the the man was an American and his wife was originally from England she was British and they remodeled a room in her house to have a miniature version of her English Hometown wow okay and I just I said it was bizarre didn't I I mean these are the people that put like you know how in Old offices the mail room would have these vacuum tubes and you'd put your mail in a vacuum canister and it would get sucked up to the 18th floor for you kind of thing pneumatic tubes they put pneumatic tubes in someone's home why because they could they they got wind the idea that the person who owned the home that had pneumatic tubes that person must have liked UFOs since that was the most UFO thing they could do they made a UFO coffee coffee table and they put pneumatic tubes in the house the uh so this this poor woman she came home to her house and her whole living room had been converted into a model of her British Hometown and she was crestfallen she she was like well I like it I like my hometown but I don't really want to live with it why do you think I moved away okay yeah I can go back anytime I want I don't need it here in my living room was it at least well done oh it was it was amazingly well rendered but boy you could just see her her face turn Ashen and fall right and that's how we do home show drama okay or at least it was until Apple at least it was until that show got canceled many years ago yes oh fair enough so Apple might be Reviving a genre um I hope they do something question how do you you have have endly ofc homes arees and and you have to sort of Define what's Innovative yeah they've all got Hue bulbs doesn't last for two episodes does it no boundary pushing imagination of The Visionaries who dared to dream and build them well so sometimes what happens I mean this happened a few times where a an architect designs and and builds a boundary pushing home and no one wants to live in it and so the architect moves in okay okay H anyway y yes yeah okay so these these things are coming in the spring the the Spike Jones be boy story is coming to Apple TV Plus in April and it's going to debut along with uh all of these other things it's going to be shown a little bit at South by Southwest there still no news of when little voice is coming that was plugged heavily in the March launch and I'm really looking forward to it but not a word sure well well we'll let you know when it does yeah I will wake you up in the middle of night to tell you thanks yeah that's what do not disturb is for oh yes yes now we were talking previously about ight shamalan and his film his his show servant yes apple and he are being sued okay somebody just didn't like the show this is the third well I mean possibly it's m nitan but there are there are three shows now that Apple has had a problem with right Apple had had a problem with the the film that they made about the banker the banker yeah yes and and that has yet to be released while they're figuring out what they're going to do about it the next one was the problem with the documentary The with Oprah right I didn't know about this one what's going wrong with that well uh Oprah had publicly announced that she's leaving that she's taking her name away from it because she felt that it was being rushed so that they could show it at Sundance and that's not something she wants to be a part of she no longer supports what they're doing grief okay that's that's huge I'm amazed I miss that all right but you know these things happen you had me on do not disturb and you missed it that would be why okay O Okay curses I know to let Angel know these things and then we'll find out Jo I'm trying to work out what Apple's slate is I know they've launched 10 shows uh in 2019 so three out of 10 30% I mean there are more it doesn't seem an unusual amount to me I didn't even tell you what Apple's being sued over for this oh no I'm sorry yes what's wrong with uh servant well there was this 2013 film called The Truth About Emanuel okay I remember well and the the suit discusses in detail the similarities in tone plot and style between the truth about emanu and servant okay both Productions both scripts involve a reborn doll being being attended by a hired Nanny with similar themes and and similar film making techniques alleged okay I mean we cannot comment obviously on a current lawsuit seen these yeah um but uh I can tell you uh the same idea coming up in two places is preposterously common I um I've written Doctor Who radio dramas and the way it works is you you originally pitched them a single sentence so that they can come back and say now we got 10 set in the desert do something else and there was this time when I had an idea I loved so much I skipped all of that I went I went several steps down the line wrote up a uh 2word treatment of it emailed it over to my script editor seconds later he emailed back saying we love this so much we went back in time and made it made it 30 years ago yeah and when I looked up the one they'd made the title was one word different from mine it happens yeah it does but there's more than that right so the similarities that the the lawsuit alleges include not just parallel plot points but also strikingly similar and highly idiosyncratic characters scenes directorial choices and modes of Storytelling so they're saying that that it's not just lifting of the story wholesale but also these other elements and they they actually show shot forsh shot where things line up as well okay like there's there are several images here compar preparing left Emanuel right servant and so there's there's a little more than just you know the the highly coincidental but happens nature like youve described and that happens in songwriting too you know uh George Harrison's My Sweet Lord sure yeah he was sued over that because it had a lot in common with um a 1960s girl group song uh the Sam Smith song uh stay with me was incredibly similar to Tom Petty and the heartbreaker song and in the end Sam Smith had to recognize it and give Tom Petty songwriting credit okay Tom Petty's quote at the time was something to the effect of this happens it happens to all of us it happens in the studio we just don't usually release it a very long time ago a friend was working on a series here at the UK and I sent her a script I was trying to pitch to that show and she told me what was wrong with it and that basically it would never fly uh within a year she actually contacted me for advice on a script uh that was set in an area she knew I knew about uh it was the same area of the script i' sent her the characters were the same the plot was the same the story was the same whoops um pretty stupid coming to me about it but in the same way if you're going to plagiarize something uh a film that's been released seems like a daff thing to sit there with Netflix on making notes about we don't know what happened when also her version didn't get made either so she was right but they this isn't the first time someone has put shamalan and plagiarism in the same sentence really I didn't know that well in 2003 screenwriter Robert meleny alleged that signs had similarities to his unpublished script lord of the Barons the Jersey Devil the following year 2004 Margaret Peterson hadex discussed suing Shemin with Publisher Simon Shuster over similarities between the village and running out of time a novel from 1996 author Orson Scott Card has also claimed that parts of the six sense were taken from novel Lost Boys but he never sued but it's not the first time this is this has been raised as concern so right the the party suing is Franchesca gregorini and she's demanding all damages and injunction against further production recall of any inventory of the infringing material supervised destruction of any inventory disgorgement of all proceeds punitive damages uh servant of series isn't it in fact wasn't it coming back for a second run so that's multi hour um so that's an expensive show yes to pull okay yeah that's that's not a small thing now of course when you're when you're suing someone and asking for damages you and and and of course I'm slightly out of my depth here but the the historically you ask for um both a lot but at the same time you ask for things you can support how have you been damaged in what's going to make what's going to make you whole sure right so that I mean going through those things right if you you were plagiarized you would want an injunction against further production right you would want the infringing material to be recalled you would want it to be destroyed you would want the proceeds and and you would want some kind of punishment to make it not happen again yes my mind's gone to all them uh at least hundreds of people who will have worked on that series um I suppose you know they were paid but it's not the same you work on these things to get them out and to then have it denied because of uh an issue like this seems heartbreaking for pretty much everybody so definitely although I have a question about working to get paid versus working because you want to get them out um you know I I think back to uh there there Star Trek the Next Generation yes had a rule in place later on in then the production of that where they would not hire any Star Trek fans they only oh okay um yeah so you mean I'm not talking about you're a fan of horror or something right no they they only hired people to work on that show who wanted to work to to for well obviously to get it out but not because they were Star Trek fans for the love of the Star Trek thing they they were working for the dollar they were working to to get paid and the reason behind that was that there was a uh a person that they' hired on and he was a a giant Star Trek fan and he ended up filming with a camcar after hours using bits of their set and he broke Bunches of pieces of their set doing it and also just you know the violation of of sharing the things behind the scenes unauthorized and uh and so there's there's a sort of a balance there right to say that thank you yeah it's not that people who work to be paid have no investment I was hired uh to write on Doctor Who Adventures a Jordan's magazine and it turned out that I got it obviously I know Doctor Who but I was the only one who applied who applied because he wanted to learn how to write for Jordan everyone else was a doctor who fan for it there is uh you need the ability and you need the people to be focused on it but those people have to be engaged or impassioned it's yes I mean we've all taken on jobs in the media uh because we need the money but they only work if you are passionate about them so yeah um we saw this out because I was saying I felt sorry for all the people who worked on servant who might be uh who might never see their episodes uh we have no idea if it will ever come to that but I guess we'll just have to watch the news and because the is a court case and we know with court cases things tend to take a while yes we will be talking about this in the future won't we yes I'll be watching out for this one I didn't know about this whole chain of previous I'm terribly intrigued by it now so okay thank you for that I think welcome yes that's all I have I've kept you for a decent amount of time I'm so glad you were here for me um is there anything else you want to bring up um I haven't bought any Apple things this week so I think you're slipping or I'm just being benevolent oh okay right now which says benevolence means uh building up to doing something evil later doesn't it it's not the stct definition but I think we can take that William thank you so much where where can people find you on the internet I will be watching a lot of Apple TV plus uh but I'm on Twitter as W Gallagher and on uh email as William appleinsider.com what about you I'm V marks on Twitter at Victor appleinsider.com and I have started another podcast I know it's it's striking it's amazing um and it's it's in Spotify it's not in iTunes yet I'm working on getting that up but uh it is um you can find it through autismo who.com uh autism wh.com or through anchor.fm uh autism 15 I think it is let me tell you that correctly yeah can of make a stab in the dark that it might be about autism it might it might so it's it's the idea is that we talk about one part of autis or living with autism in 15 minutes so the first episode we talk about all the things that happen before you get a diagnosis how you go about getting a diagnosis for a person with autism and the second episode we talk a little bit about what kinds of things you do once you have the diagnosis and what sort of treatments are available and how to consider them kind of thing because that's that's one of the things that is really hard when you're newly exposed to or newly get a diagnosis for someone in your family is what do you do next good point I have no idea I should tune in to find out there you go so that's that's a topic that's near and dear to my heart and so now we've launched a podcast about it in any case thank you all so much for listening and I hope to hear back from you with more and uh let us know how we're doing I know we have talked about some difficult topics today uh it's it's not always easy to talk about them we try and cover things fairly and and completely even if we sometimes put some Jabs in so thank you so much and we'll be back next week nyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to the Apple Insider podcast I'm Victor and joining me is my good friend my dear friend William Gallagher hello how you doing I am fantastic and I'm so glad you're here that's 2 weeks into the year already don't say such things you know when I'm talking to you the time just goes okay what are you getting me for Christmas it hasn't gone that quickly yet it's 2 weeks into the year okay I'm staring up the new Phillips Hue Lights or something you know get in early do you like Phillips Hue Lights I do my own sole problem with them and we have quite a few in the house is they're not quite bright enough uh things like the living room uh stuff we need a lamp or two as well so I'd like them a little bit brighter but of all the homekit stuff I do uh Philip sh has been the most reliable so interesting interesting it I you know I have a couple I have about five of their bulbs and I don't use a single one all right that's what you're getting me for Christmas then send them over sorted 120 volt bulbs for England yeah you'll like that oh oh and they uh they have the screw thread instead of the bayonet thread so no you'll really get on well well actually our house is old enough that yeah that would be a problem uh more modern houses in the UK also use the screw fit thing um do they really I'm not going to move house yeah I'm not going to move house for oh no I actually I bought a whole set of adapters so we can use uh um whichever way around it was that sh which Bayon it to screw or screw to Bayon it we can do anything here yes well we've got a while to fix it you're sure I'm just stunned that you can do anything but um I you know that is a that is a common criticism amazing of of the Hue Lights is that they just aren't bright enough and that's something that Hughes addressed over time although I don't know if they've dressed it sufficiently uh My Philosophy has always been to put the smarts in the wall switch as opposed to putting them in the bulb and my reasoning has been that if you turn on and off the switch when the when the smarts are in the bulb then it means that your bulb no longer gets power and can't respond to commands but if you put the smarts in the wall switch then it works just like a wall switch has worked for the past Century all right now but in that case uh US housing is an issue because I think it happens that British design has whatever it is that's needed to C power to it but us ones you can be there or not and it's expensive if you haven't got it um no I I'm not sure because when I in any case there are in wall switches for England yes and so maybe that'll be my gift to you that's nice I've got a birthday coming slightly soon but I'm sorry I'll let you down a pat there cuz uh we actually have a nice video on Apple Insider about the new range of bulbs and they look very nice I just you don't know till you get them home how bright they are so that was what was on my mind sorry for totally valid concern for people yes now let's talk about something that you and I have thought talked about in the past we've thought a lot about this a new patent describes the use of applications across multiple screens such as iPhone and MacBook Pro but it also seems to suggest that Apple hasn't completely ruled out the possibility of a touchscreen MacBook Pro yes I wrote the story about this on apptis so I read the patent application and actually of all the apple patons of ever at it was the most phenomenally complicated to understand uh but right there in the middle really clear was this thing that it did include a description of how to do these various things is describing with a touchscreen Apple laptop I actually think it is just the patent writers are doing this thing of making it as wide ranging as possible rather than Apple really tipping the wig but it's right there plain as day right so that's what you what you just said as the truth that when you write a patent when you when you've come up with something that you you've invented that you think is patentable you want to be as comprehensive as possible and you do this so that for a couple of reasons one is defensive where if someone else does it then you can say nope sorry you're violating our patent you're infringing you have to license it from us you have to pay a fee now and the other thing is is and of course if you go to court there can be punitive fees involved in that too the the other thing is that if some of the claims are uh what's the word if if some of the claims are struck down for examp example the rest of the patent can survive if you've done enough oh no I didn't realize that okay I thought once you'd pierced the uh uh patent you were safe or do what you like or something but it's um uh more compartmental yeah than that no so when you make a patent you make several claims of what you're covering and you so you write down not just the implementation that you you invented first but all of the different variants of it and all of different applications of it so that you're really covering the whole thing comprehensively and if one of those claims gets struck the rest of the patent survives yeah um I've just looked up this one and there are 22 separate claims within it and actually that was by far uh look at the scroll bar on my screen the 22 claims which are very detailed take up less than a tenth of the length of the P not including uh 50 odd diagrams and things it's thorough this thing yes but in there you know there's this I I'm on the side that doesn't particularly want a touchscreen Mac I have a friend who has a touchscreen uh PC and actually when she uses it um it's good I like it but I wouldn't myself so what about you where' you sit you know it's it's a tough one because I just there have been times where I've touched at my Mac screen after using an iPad for extended periods of time yes I think we may all have done but it's I I work more efficiently personally through the keyboard and trackpad right to be fair this PN really is uh intended to be chiefly about using multiple devices together and that does include at one point laptop with a trackpad how you can use the two together but I tell you it gets into very complicated are and of course if you're using something like duet display you know then you could use your iPad and touchscreen essentially your Mac display yeah actually there's a whole section in this about uh using two displays where uh uh the patent is for a way to determine where your focus of attention is so that if you are watching a video on a big screen but you're controlling the playback on your iPhone for example it knows where to display the information right where does the controller Go versus where does the video go and and also where audio should route uh there's nothing that I know in audio about this but Yesa that's I mean that's that's the the issue and and we see that today as you that's true good point yes okay very cool patent we'll look to see and of course if anything does develop there we'll tell you all about it now last week we told you something that happened with the FBI didn't we we has the FBI been doing things again well they don't stop do they well especially not once they have a a case to prosecute right or or an investigation and neither does the FBI okay which may explain some of their reasoning here um so the the sum of the story is that there was a shooting in Pensacola last year and the alleged actor there had an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 7 and the justice department first reported to Apple that they had one of those devices I think it was the iPhone 5 but I could be mistaken and apple provided the iCloud data and and and helped with that and then two months later something like that the Department of Justice the FBI came back and said oh there's also this iPhone 7 can you please help us with that and Apple dutifully provided all of the information that was available in iCloud for that and the F said no no no no we want you to unlock these phones unlock both of them and what been a shift change at the FBI since uh 2016 when Apple last refused to do this and they just genuinely don't know what Apple's going to say I think they do know exactly what Apple's going to say and that they they just want to see if public uh the the public sentiment has changed and aligns with them now and they can maybe do better than they did last time that's interesting isn't it I do think Apple did a a very good job of explaining I think I said this to you even last week that such a complicated issue such an emotive issue and apple explained the longer view really well for and presumably being positioned to have to do so again or attempt to do so right so the the justice department and the FBI are asking for the same exact thing that they asked for last time and they're using some of the same language for example a uh a justice department spokesman wrote in an email Apple designed these phones and implemented their encryption it's a simple front door request will Apple help us get into the shooter's phones or not now Last Time Around in 2016 when Apple said that that no they were not going to write special software with a back door for the justice department the J responded saying we want a front door we don't want a back door okay I missed that actually so right is there is that just an FBI created term or is there a technical thing go to front door there is not okay I mean if we think about this analogy if we think about the this this analogy right if in your home the back door is the door that you the homeowner tend to go through right the front door is the door that you might open for guests or solicitors or you know whatever right anyone who very different in the UK yeah the back door is when you head out into the garden trash but no one no strangers are coming through your garden are they no that's well not recently not that we've noticed worrying me now it's not locked in typical British Society in in among homeowners no one no one just wanders into your garden and comes through the back door do they no I have an urgent need to say that by the time anybody hears this that back door will be locked Okay carry yes and and but if someone were coming to your home and wanted to oh I don't know sell you something like new windows for your house they would they would knock on the front door yes they would yes if you had guests coming to the house if you had people coming over for tea what door would they enter through oh absolutely the first cuz we've yeah we we rather than Tiding we dump everything towards the back door I'm revealing too much here yes the front door is is the nice door for visitors and so that's what the justice department is trying to to twist around here is that they don't they don't want something that is the back door that is that is the the the um non public they want they want a a nice open front door invitation okay now the thing is is that the justice department knows full well that unless Apple changes iOS and exposes everyone that that this is not happening that this is actually impossible and further right this this is because this is something that doesn't exist the Justice smart is asking for it as if it were something that already existed and could just be handed over but it doesn't this is something that would have to be custom written for the justice department and the people who want there to be a law that compels Apple basically are saying that they want the government to be able to compel Apple to do work for free right now what what is it called when you when you force someone to work for free against their will uh them being a writer in in a very bad economy no well I suppose so but I was aiming at something a little more incentive okay with my rightous Guild had on let me just say free is not an option that's our current campaign but yes I see a point it's um what is it what's the word uh servitude um servitude thank you is that is that a good word another one yeah that works can you think of another one uh something about forcing something um I can't think yeah what the phrase is but yes it's uh altogether un we'll say with that yeah yeah and you know the question then is is the Justice depart spokeswoman either ignorant or lying and and you'd like to think that people at the level of being justice department spokeswoman are not ignorant so there actually I think you may well have misinterpreted something here because there is a front door way in that does already exist because this week uh don't you have the articles of impeachment of the president and there was this um extra evidence and that included uh slew of information taken from somebody's uh iPhone but that somebody actually handed over the phone so that person elected to give the information that's a a front door all criminals should just be nice and handed over unless of course the um law enforcement has already rendered them unable to log into their phone right or to be fair I understand some criminals actually shoot their iPhones I assume in some sort of protective manner rather than just annoyance at Siri today but yes so you know there's a range of possibilities there is now president Trump tweeted as he tends to do frequently and by the time this airs by the time you're listening to this he may well have tweeted again he may have tweeted 20 times or more since that since we've recorded this but he issued a tweet he posted a tweet that said oh dear I had it open here um we are helping Apple all the time on trade and so many other issues and yet they refuse to unlock phones used by Killers drug dealers and other violent criminal elements they will have to step up to the plate and help our great country now make America great again to be fair that is US president supporting uh the FBI wouldn't any president have done something like that well so that's interesting because this particular president has not been entirely supportive of the FBI historically and that's true I'd forgotten that ah so so that's interesting and and which is it right the FBI are these terrible bungler were completely unfair to him or they're doing great and and Apple's the bad guy here that now there's something else here at work which I think is interesting to comment on we are helping Apple all of the time they will have to step up to the plate and help our great country now so what kind of of an arrangement is he suggesting there because it feels to me like he's saying that that this is an arrangement where he's he's sort of saying we have done this and now we are asking for that yeah I mean not to go too far down the political side of this but I don't this doesn't feel to me like a Ukrainian quid pro quow thing this is um it's just you know talking about all the times he talks with apple I just I don't think it was a contractually specific kind of thing um but you know I am all the way over in UK in the UK and we have our own mess of problem so I do miss a lot of the uh detail in the states yeah well this this is a very TR transactional tweet let's say that's how it reads to me but this this is the the issue uh Apple denied the Department of Justice request uh unit us attorney general bar has basically said that Apple hasn't provided any substantive assistance on this investigation Apple rejects that characterization uh Trump does imply this sort of this for that tit fortat relationship with his administration and his of trade and so many other issues suggests that Apple should respond in kind for favorable consideration in the ongoing China trade War actually we can cut to something here yeah what's do you think is going to happen next well um the way this worked out the last time was that Apple refused and Tim Cook vowed to fight in in court the doj withdrew its demands just before the court Showdown that would have set legal preced over this and so the question is either the doj believes now that they can set that legal precedent and things will go their way or they um are are just willing to take the risk and go forward okay and I would I would say that it's a very you it's a different set of people in charge of the doj than there was back in 2016 it's a different um different approach to government and so it it remains to be seen what will actually happen here I expect Apple's pos position to remain the same the question is whether the doj will back down or not right well interesting to follow I guess and you know one of the the questions is would they be heard in a a court with a judge that had been appointed by Trump and if they had would that change things it shouldn't it it shouldn't but that's a question we could ask Point feel like I'm heading out of my depth at the moment on this one so I'm just the the let's let's talk about the technology side of this for a moment right this is an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 7 yeah you'd think criminals would be more up to date than an iPhone 5 well I mean there's that but the FBI has recently accessed locked iPhone 11 Pro Maxes with gr Key's third party tool right so you think so the an iPhone 5 should be a duddle oh well so first of all everything up into including an iPhone 10 was hackable because of a bug that was in the hardware and so you could access yeah we've talked about this in the past and so i' forgotten that sorry yeah okay scary thoughts right so which is what makes an uh XS or an XR or newer so much better is is that those don't have that bug and an iPhone 5 and an iPhone everyone can unlock those everyone right there is there is nothing prevents the FBI from or the doj from using gray key or using celite because they've all got these tools for thones that old so the question is is um what will happen here now in the 2016 case the doj claimed that they' exhausted all their internal and external options meaning that Apple's expertise was the only way forward and that apple had provide the assistance and they're claiming that again even though last time they went ahead and said okay fine we can get it and they use celebrate okay so it doesn't really feel like a uh technical discussion here it is a political one it really is it really is but celebrite for their part was recently used by the FBI um well they were they been used by the FBI but they were recently used in terms of getting data off of the phone owned by love Partners yes he's the fellow who who did it in the end hand over the phone so yeah that doesn't feel like a massive uh security extraction hacking thing warrant worthy of a film it found it feels more like a well I mean cut and past the the celebrate the question is did he give the passcode or fingerprint or face ID to unlock the phone or did he just hand over the phone but in any case celbrate was used to extract all of the messaging data from the phone including uh encrypted messaging applications like WhatsApp something I like actually about this information is in this modern world that information is available to us all to read I mean it's acted in Parts but uh you can see the conversations yourself you an approximate translation from Russian things I think that's fascinating that you know uh not very long ago that wouldn't have been possible and now we can have the information use it and understand what's going on in the world that's cool yeah yay for technology then definitely am I looking for the last week you were all about happiness am I the one trying to be positive this week you want to talk about something that did make me happy this week depends what it is actually but edly yes so Spike Jones is working on a documentary called the beasty boy story oh right yes now first of all are you you're a fan I mean I I I wouldn't be remiss to say No Sleep till Brooklyn or or Paul's Boutique or um I could name tons of beasty boy stuff that I enjoy I was going say I didn't know whether that was Beasty Boys or Spike Jones stuff those those are be boys now Spike Jones has done a number of things but one of the ones that sticks out in my memory is the music video that he did for uh fat boy Slims right here right now oh is that the one that's uh in a shopping mall and people dancing incredibly badly or something yeah yeah that was great yes look things that make me smile don't have to be executed in with with people dancing greatly right okay right but it doesn't help it's what you I'm say I'm saying that that made me smile that I like the beast boys and I like Spike Jones and I enjoyed this and so the documentary is is basically the personal story of the band and 40 Years of friendship and it's through the the lens of Mike Diamond and Adam horvitz an interesting story and one of the things about that band you so many so many bands cash in on um the licensing of their music yeah and the Beasty Boys have expressly not given permission to any to use their music for anything I currently walk around our local supermarket wearing airpods Pro playing my choice of Music rather than the supermarkets one so I I would have missed if they were in hasda in the UK but you're saying nowhere are the Beasty Boys they they have never allowed any Advertiser to use their music okay cool I think so that should be enjoyable if if you if you enjoy things like I do that might be a good one um actually sorry am I right that Spike Jones uh uh did Charlie kofman's Being John malovich that was that script in that film was amazing how long ago that was that was definitely a good script absolutely but I'm I can't remember if you worked on that we're going to say he did okay sounds good to me right in addition to that there's also going to be an animated series about a family of caretakers who live and work in New York's Central Park um that's going to be created by that's created by Lauren bashard who's the the Mind behind many animated shows uh including Bob's Bergers um it's going to have Josh Gad Leslie odm Jr Titus Buress uh Kristen Bell Stanley Tucci D Diggs and kathern hun as stars Kristen Bell uh she's in everything it's great yeah and she she is uh the legend that is Veronica Mars as well among among many other things oh actually I have never tuned into a show or watched a film because of who was in the cast or even who's directed it occasionally because of who WR wait wait so what about the good place I just tried it CU I fancied a new comedy I was not bothered by her or um Ted Danson even though I assume they'd both be good and actually they were okay and and lastly there's a docu series called home that takes a look inside the world's most Innovative homes and unveils Boundary pushing imagination of visionary who Dar to dream and build them I wonder and this is just my guess but I'm wondering if we'll see things like homekit in any of these things I was just trying to think what could possibly be Innovative about homes that hasn't been shown before on the countless home shows but yes I mean you've got you've got the The Marvelous swimming pool that's a third floor swimming pool can't delivered over a Cliff's Edge and all that kind of stuff yeah done that seen that seen it yeah um so it I don't know okay I don't that's a differentiat that would be fun you know it would be it would be it would be certainly a way to expose people to the idea that here's this marvelous architectural work and by the way all of the outfittings respond to the owner by smart devices like homepod and to be fair I think it's a way to get audiences because aren't we all a little bit drawn into houses for years I've been hoping that um hgtv's uh tour of sus Vegas's New York apartment would be on YouTube or iTunes or somewhere so you know I'm I've been pursuing that and unable to see it in the UK uh is it just me as a sucker for this stuff are you looking at me like it is okay well there are many people who enjoy home shows they're they're easy fluff to watch there's nothing controversial about them um and and they're enjoyable social com it's like sugar water it's candy drama and that's okay very character revealing what who's tided up the best yes or or the you know the the flip it kind of shows where it's the love it or listed thing you know you uh you you agree that if you don't like how someone redecorates your home you will go ahead or remodels your home that you will sell it and have to move okay I didn't know those oh yeah just knew well that that injects some drama into the the genre right instead of just we're going to borrow this person's fantastic home and spend a night here and tell you all about it and all the features kind of thing um it's it's the drama of they're going to like what we do and versus Team I'm going to show them a bunch of houses and they'll buy one it won't matter there was a patch here in the UK about God 20 years ago now where there was a show called changing rooms one called Garden force or something and they would come in and they would radically change a room or a garden and it was quite entertaining seeing the the poor person come back and pretend to be pleased oh oh so there were some we had one here called Monster House so we had one here called Monster House and monster house is based on a show called monster monster cars or something like that and and basically the concept was that instead of remodeling it for something nice and sensible that you could actually live with they would remodel it in some wild unimaginable way some like futuristic thing or or something like that and they did this to uh there was a couple where the the man was an American and his wife was originally from England she was British and they remodeled a room in her house to have a miniature version of her English Hometown wow okay and I just I said it was bizarre didn't I I mean these are the people that put like you know how in Old offices the mail room would have these vacuum tubes and you'd put your mail in a vacuum canister and it would get sucked up to the 18th floor for you kind of thing pneumatic tubes they put pneumatic tubes in someone's home why because they could they they got wind the idea that the person who owned the home that had pneumatic tubes that person must have liked UFOs since that was the most UFO thing they could do they made a UFO coffee coffee table and they put pneumatic tubes in the house the uh so this this poor woman she came home to her house and her whole living room had been converted into a model of her British Hometown and she was crestfallen she she was like well I like it I like my hometown but I don't really want to live with it why do you think I moved away okay yeah I can go back anytime I want I don't need it here in my living room was it at least well done oh it was it was amazingly well rendered but boy you could just see her her face turn Ashen and fall right and that's how we do home show drama okay or at least it was until Apple at least it was until that show got canceled many years ago yes oh fair enough so Apple might be Reviving a genre um I hope they do something question how do you you have have endly ofc homes arees and and you have to sort of Define what's Innovative yeah they've all got Hue bulbs doesn't last for two episodes does it no boundary pushing imagination of The Visionaries who dared to dream and build them well so sometimes what happens I mean this happened a few times where a an architect designs and and builds a boundary pushing home and no one wants to live in it and so the architect moves in okay okay H anyway y yes yeah okay so these these things are coming in the spring the the Spike Jones be boy story is coming to Apple TV Plus in April and it's going to debut along with uh all of these other things it's going to be shown a little bit at South by Southwest there still no news of when little voice is coming that was plugged heavily in the March launch and I'm really looking forward to it but not a word sure well well we'll let you know when it does yeah I will wake you up in the middle of night to tell you thanks yeah that's what do not disturb is for oh yes yes now we were talking previously about ight shamalan and his film his his show servant yes apple and he are being sued okay somebody just didn't like the show this is the third well I mean possibly it's m nitan but there are there are three shows now that Apple has had a problem with right Apple had had a problem with the the film that they made about the banker the banker yeah yes and and that has yet to be released while they're figuring out what they're going to do about it the next one was the problem with the documentary The with Oprah right I didn't know about this one what's going wrong with that well uh Oprah had publicly announced that she's leaving that she's taking her name away from it because she felt that it was being rushed so that they could show it at Sundance and that's not something she wants to be a part of she no longer supports what they're doing grief okay that's that's huge I'm amazed I miss that all right but you know these things happen you had me on do not disturb and you missed it that would be why okay O Okay curses I know to let Angel know these things and then we'll find out Jo I'm trying to work out what Apple's slate is I know they've launched 10 shows uh in 2019 so three out of 10 30% I mean there are more it doesn't seem an unusual amount to me I didn't even tell you what Apple's being sued over for this oh no I'm sorry yes what's wrong with uh servant well there was this 2013 film called The Truth About Emanuel okay I remember well and the the suit discusses in detail the similarities in tone plot and style between the truth about emanu and servant okay both Productions both scripts involve a reborn doll being being attended by a hired Nanny with similar themes and and similar film making techniques alleged okay I mean we cannot comment obviously on a current lawsuit seen these yeah um but uh I can tell you uh the same idea coming up in two places is preposterously common I um I've written Doctor Who radio dramas and the way it works is you you originally pitched them a single sentence so that they can come back and say now we got 10 set in the desert do something else and there was this time when I had an idea I loved so much I skipped all of that I went I went several steps down the line wrote up a uh 2word treatment of it emailed it over to my script editor seconds later he emailed back saying we love this so much we went back in time and made it made it 30 years ago yeah and when I looked up the one they'd made the title was one word different from mine it happens yeah it does but there's more than that right so the similarities that the the lawsuit alleges include not just parallel plot points but also strikingly similar and highly idiosyncratic characters scenes directorial choices and modes of Storytelling so they're saying that that it's not just lifting of the story wholesale but also these other elements and they they actually show shot forsh shot where things line up as well okay like there's there are several images here compar preparing left Emanuel right servant and so there's there's a little more than just you know the the highly coincidental but happens nature like youve described and that happens in songwriting too you know uh George Harrison's My Sweet Lord sure yeah he was sued over that because it had a lot in common with um a 1960s girl group song uh the Sam Smith song uh stay with me was incredibly similar to Tom Petty and the heartbreaker song and in the end Sam Smith had to recognize it and give Tom Petty songwriting credit okay Tom Petty's quote at the time was something to the effect of this happens it happens to all of us it happens in the studio we just don't usually release it a very long time ago a friend was working on a series here at the UK and I sent her a script I was trying to pitch to that show and she told me what was wrong with it and that basically it would never fly uh within a year she actually contacted me for advice on a script uh that was set in an area she knew I knew about uh it was the same area of the script i' sent her the characters were the same the plot was the same the story was the same whoops um pretty stupid coming to me about it but in the same way if you're going to plagiarize something uh a film that's been released seems like a daff thing to sit there with Netflix on making notes about we don't know what happened when also her version didn't get made either so she was right but they this isn't the first time someone has put shamalan and plagiarism in the same sentence really I didn't know that well in 2003 screenwriter Robert meleny alleged that signs had similarities to his unpublished script lord of the Barons the Jersey Devil the following year 2004 Margaret Peterson hadex discussed suing Shemin with Publisher Simon Shuster over similarities between the village and running out of time a novel from 1996 author Orson Scott Card has also claimed that parts of the six sense were taken from novel Lost Boys but he never sued but it's not the first time this is this has been raised as concern so right the the party suing is Franchesca gregorini and she's demanding all damages and injunction against further production recall of any inventory of the infringing material supervised destruction of any inventory disgorgement of all proceeds punitive damages uh servant of series isn't it in fact wasn't it coming back for a second run so that's multi hour um so that's an expensive show yes to pull okay yeah that's that's not a small thing now of course when you're when you're suing someone and asking for damages you and and and of course I'm slightly out of my depth here but the the historically you ask for um both a lot but at the same time you ask for things you can support how have you been damaged in what's going to make what's going to make you whole sure right so that I mean going through those things right if you you were plagiarized you would want an injunction against further production right you would want the infringing material to be recalled you would want it to be destroyed you would want the proceeds and and you would want some kind of punishment to make it not happen again yes my mind's gone to all them uh at least hundreds of people who will have worked on that series um I suppose you know they were paid but it's not the same you work on these things to get them out and to then have it denied because of uh an issue like this seems heartbreaking for pretty much everybody so definitely although I have a question about working to get paid versus working because you want to get them out um you know I I think back to uh there there Star Trek the Next Generation yes had a rule in place later on in then the production of that where they would not hire any Star Trek fans they only oh okay um yeah so you mean I'm not talking about you're a fan of horror or something right no they they only hired people to work on that show who wanted to work to to for well obviously to get it out but not because they were Star Trek fans for the love of the Star Trek thing they they were working for the dollar they were working to to get paid and the reason behind that was that there was a uh a person that they' hired on and he was a a giant Star Trek fan and he ended up filming with a camcar after hours using bits of their set and he broke Bunches of pieces of their set doing it and also just you know the violation of of sharing the things behind the scenes unauthorized and uh and so there's there's a sort of a balance there right to say that thank you yeah it's not that people who work to be paid have no investment I was hired uh to write on Doctor Who Adventures a Jordan's magazine and it turned out that I got it obviously I know Doctor Who but I was the only one who applied who applied because he wanted to learn how to write for Jordan everyone else was a doctor who fan for it there is uh you need the ability and you need the people to be focused on it but those people have to be engaged or impassioned it's yes I mean we've all taken on jobs in the media uh because we need the money but they only work if you are passionate about them so yeah um we saw this out because I was saying I felt sorry for all the people who worked on servant who might be uh who might never see their episodes uh we have no idea if it will ever come to that but I guess we'll just have to watch the news and because the is a court case and we know with court cases things tend to take a while yes we will be talking about this in the future won't we yes I'll be watching out for this one I didn't know about this whole chain of previous I'm terribly intrigued by it now so okay thank you for that I think welcome yes that's all I have I've kept you for a decent amount of time I'm so glad you were here for me um is there anything else you want to bring up um I haven't bought any Apple things this week so I think you're slipping or I'm just being benevolent oh okay right now which says benevolence means uh building up to doing something evil later doesn't it it's not the stct definition but I think we can take that William thank you so much where where can people find you on the internet I will be watching a lot of Apple TV plus uh but I'm on Twitter as W Gallagher and on uh email as William appleinsider.com what about you I'm V marks on Twitter at Victor appleinsider.com and I have started another podcast I know it's it's striking it's amazing um and it's it's in Spotify it's not in iTunes yet I'm working on getting that up but uh it is um you can find it through autismo who.com uh autism wh.com or through anchor.fm uh autism 15 I think it is let me tell you that correctly yeah can of make a stab in the dark that it might be about autism it might it might so it's it's the idea is that we talk about one part of autis or living with autism in 15 minutes so the first episode we talk about all the things that happen before you get a diagnosis how you go about getting a diagnosis for a person with autism and the second episode we talk a little bit about what kinds of things you do once you have the diagnosis and what sort of treatments are available and how to consider them kind of thing because that's that's one of the things that is really hard when you're newly exposed to or newly get a diagnosis for someone in your family is what do you do next good point I have no idea I should tune in to find out there you go so that's that's a topic that's near and dear to my heart and so now we've launched a podcast about it in any case thank you all so much for listening and I hope to hear back from you with more and uh let us know how we're doing I know we have talked about some difficult topics today uh it's it's not always easy to talk about them we try and cover things fairly and and completely even if we sometimes put some Jabs in so thank you so much and we'll be back next week nyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome to the Apple Insider podcast I'm Victor and joining me is my good friend my dear friend William Gallagher hello how you doing I am fantastic and I'm so glad you're here that's 2 weeks into the year already don't say such things you know when I'm talking to you the time just goes okay what are you getting me for Christmas it hasn't gone that quickly yet it's 2 weeks into the year okay I'm staring up the new Phillips Hue Lights or something you know get in early do you like Phillips Hue Lights I do my own sole problem with them and we have quite a few in the house is they're not quite bright enough uh things like the living room uh stuff we need a lamp or two as well so I'd like them a little bit brighter but of all the homekit stuff I do uh Philip sh has been the most reliable so interesting interesting it I you know I have a couple I have about five of their bulbs and I don't use a single one all right that's what you're getting me for Christmas then send them over sorted 120 volt bulbs for England yeah you'll like that oh oh and they uh they have the screw thread instead of the bayonet thread so no you'll really get on well well actually our house is old enough that yeah that would be a problem uh more modern houses in the UK also use the screw fit thing um do they really I'm not going to move house yeah I'm not going to move house for oh no I actually I bought a whole set of adapters so we can use uh um whichever way around it was that sh which Bayon it to screw or screw to Bayon it we can do anything here yes well we've got a while to fix it you're sure I'm just stunned that you can do anything but um I you know that is a that is a common criticism amazing of of the Hue Lights is that they just aren't bright enough and that's something that Hughes addressed over time although I don't know if they've dressed it sufficiently uh My Philosophy has always been to put the smarts in the wall switch as opposed to putting them in the bulb and my reasoning has been that if you turn on and off the switch when the when the smarts are in the bulb then it means that your bulb no longer gets power and can't respond to commands but if you put the smarts in the wall switch then it works just like a wall switch has worked for the past Century all right now but in that case uh US housing is an issue because I think it happens that British design has whatever it is that's needed to C power to it but us ones you can be there or not and it's expensive if you haven't got it um no I I'm not sure because when I in any case there are in wall switches for England yes and so maybe that'll be my gift to you that's nice I've got a birthday coming slightly soon but I'm sorry I'll let you down a pat there cuz uh we actually have a nice video on Apple Insider about the new range of bulbs and they look very nice I just you don't know till you get them home how bright they are so that was what was on my mind sorry for totally valid concern for people yes now let's talk about something that you and I have thought talked about in the past we've thought a lot about this a new patent describes the use of applications across multiple screens such as iPhone and MacBook Pro but it also seems to suggest that Apple hasn't completely ruled out the possibility of a touchscreen MacBook Pro yes I wrote the story about this on apptis so I read the patent application and actually of all the apple patons of ever at it was the most phenomenally complicated to understand uh but right there in the middle really clear was this thing that it did include a description of how to do these various things is describing with a touchscreen Apple laptop I actually think it is just the patent writers are doing this thing of making it as wide ranging as possible rather than Apple really tipping the wig but it's right there plain as day right so that's what you what you just said as the truth that when you write a patent when you when you've come up with something that you you've invented that you think is patentable you want to be as comprehensive as possible and you do this so that for a couple of reasons one is defensive where if someone else does it then you can say nope sorry you're violating our patent you're infringing you have to license it from us you have to pay a fee now and the other thing is is and of course if you go to court there can be punitive fees involved in that too the the other thing is that if some of the claims are uh what's the word if if some of the claims are struck down for examp example the rest of the patent can survive if you've done enough oh no I didn't realize that okay I thought once you'd pierced the uh uh patent you were safe or do what you like or something but it's um uh more compartmental yeah than that no so when you make a patent you make several claims of what you're covering and you so you write down not just the implementation that you you invented first but all of the different variants of it and all of different applications of it so that you're really covering the whole thing comprehensively and if one of those claims gets struck the rest of the patent survives yeah um I've just looked up this one and there are 22 separate claims within it and actually that was by far uh look at the scroll bar on my screen the 22 claims which are very detailed take up less than a tenth of the length of the P not including uh 50 odd diagrams and things it's thorough this thing yes but in there you know there's this I I'm on the side that doesn't particularly want a touchscreen Mac I have a friend who has a touchscreen uh PC and actually when she uses it um it's good I like it but I wouldn't myself so what about you where' you sit you know it's it's a tough one because I just there have been times where I've touched at my Mac screen after using an iPad for extended periods of time yes I think we may all have done but it's I I work more efficiently personally through the keyboard and trackpad right to be fair this PN really is uh intended to be chiefly about using multiple devices together and that does include at one point laptop with a trackpad how you can use the two together but I tell you it gets into very complicated are and of course if you're using something like duet display you know then you could use your iPad and touchscreen essentially your Mac display yeah actually there's a whole section in this about uh using two displays where uh uh the patent is for a way to determine where your focus of attention is so that if you are watching a video on a big screen but you're controlling the playback on your iPhone for example it knows where to display the information right where does the controller Go versus where does the video go and and also where audio should route uh there's nothing that I know in audio about this but Yesa that's I mean that's that's the the issue and and we see that today as you that's true good point yes okay very cool patent we'll look to see and of course if anything does develop there we'll tell you all about it now last week we told you something that happened with the FBI didn't we we has the FBI been doing things again well they don't stop do they well especially not once they have a a case to prosecute right or or an investigation and neither does the FBI okay which may explain some of their reasoning here um so the the sum of the story is that there was a shooting in Pensacola last year and the alleged actor there had an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 7 and the justice department first reported to Apple that they had one of those devices I think it was the iPhone 5 but I could be mistaken and apple provided the iCloud data and and and helped with that and then two months later something like that the Department of Justice the FBI came back and said oh there's also this iPhone 7 can you please help us with that and Apple dutifully provided all of the information that was available in iCloud for that and the F said no no no no we want you to unlock these phones unlock both of them and what been a shift change at the FBI since uh 2016 when Apple last refused to do this and they just genuinely don't know what Apple's going to say I think they do know exactly what Apple's going to say and that they they just want to see if public uh the the public sentiment has changed and aligns with them now and they can maybe do better than they did last time that's interesting isn't it I do think Apple did a a very good job of explaining I think I said this to you even last week that such a complicated issue such an emotive issue and apple explained the longer view really well for and presumably being positioned to have to do so again or attempt to do so right so the the justice department and the FBI are asking for the same exact thing that they asked for last time and they're using some of the same language for example a uh a justice department spokesman wrote in an email Apple designed these phones and implemented their encryption it's a simple front door request will Apple help us get into the shooter's phones or not now Last Time Around in 2016 when Apple said that that no they were not going to write special software with a back door for the justice department the J responded saying we want a front door we don't want a back door okay I missed that actually so right is there is that just an FBI created term or is there a technical thing go to front door there is not okay I mean if we think about this analogy if we think about the this this analogy right if in your home the back door is the door that you the homeowner tend to go through right the front door is the door that you might open for guests or solicitors or you know whatever right anyone who very different in the UK yeah the back door is when you head out into the garden trash but no one no strangers are coming through your garden are they no that's well not recently not that we've noticed worrying me now it's not locked in typical British Society in in among homeowners no one no one just wanders into your garden and comes through the back door do they no I have an urgent need to say that by the time anybody hears this that back door will be locked Okay carry yes and and but if someone were coming to your home and wanted to oh I don't know sell you something like new windows for your house they would they would knock on the front door yes they would yes if you had guests coming to the house if you had people coming over for tea what door would they enter through oh absolutely the first cuz we've yeah we we rather than Tiding we dump everything towards the back door I'm revealing too much here yes the front door is is the nice door for visitors and so that's what the justice department is trying to to twist around here is that they don't they don't want something that is the back door that is that is the the the um non public they want they want a a nice open front door invitation okay now the thing is is that the justice department knows full well that unless Apple changes iOS and exposes everyone that that this is not happening that this is actually impossible and further right this this is because this is something that doesn't exist the Justice smart is asking for it as if it were something that already existed and could just be handed over but it doesn't this is something that would have to be custom written for the justice department and the people who want there to be a law that compels Apple basically are saying that they want the government to be able to compel Apple to do work for free right now what what is it called when you when you force someone to work for free against their will uh them being a writer in in a very bad economy no well I suppose so but I was aiming at something a little more incentive okay with my rightous Guild had on let me just say free is not an option that's our current campaign but yes I see a point it's um what is it what's the word uh servitude um servitude thank you is that is that a good word another one yeah that works can you think of another one uh something about forcing something um I can't think yeah what the phrase is but yes it's uh altogether un we'll say with that yeah yeah and you know the question then is is the Justice depart spokeswoman either ignorant or lying and and you'd like to think that people at the level of being justice department spokeswoman are not ignorant so there actually I think you may well have misinterpreted something here because there is a front door way in that does already exist because this week uh don't you have the articles of impeachment of the president and there was this um extra evidence and that included uh slew of information taken from somebody's uh iPhone but that somebody actually handed over the phone so that person elected to give the information that's a a front door all criminals should just be nice and handed over unless of course the um law enforcement has already rendered them unable to log into their phone right or to be fair I understand some criminals actually shoot their iPhones I assume in some sort of protective manner rather than just annoyance at Siri today but yes so you know there's a range of possibilities there is now president Trump tweeted as he tends to do frequently and by the time this airs by the time you're listening to this he may well have tweeted again he may have tweeted 20 times or more since that since we've recorded this but he issued a tweet he posted a tweet that said oh dear I had it open here um we are helping Apple all the time on trade and so many other issues and yet they refuse to unlock phones used by Killers drug dealers and other violent criminal elements they will have to step up to the plate and help our great country now make America great again to be fair that is US president supporting uh the FBI wouldn't any president have done something like that well so that's interesting because this particular president has not been entirely supportive of the FBI historically and that's true I'd forgotten that ah so so that's interesting and and which is it right the FBI are these terrible bungler were completely unfair to him or they're doing great and and Apple's the bad guy here that now there's something else here at work which I think is interesting to comment on we are helping Apple all of the time they will have to step up to the plate and help our great country now so what kind of of an arrangement is he suggesting there because it feels to me like he's saying that that this is an arrangement where he's he's sort of saying we have done this and now we are asking for that yeah I mean not to go too far down the political side of this but I don't this doesn't feel to me like a Ukrainian quid pro quow thing this is um it's just you know talking about all the times he talks with apple I just I don't think it was a contractually specific kind of thing um but you know I am all the way over in UK in the UK and we have our own mess of problem so I do miss a lot of the uh detail in the states yeah well this this is a very TR transactional tweet let's say that's how it reads to me but this this is the the issue uh Apple denied the Department of Justice request uh unit us attorney general bar has basically said that Apple hasn't provided any substantive assistance on this investigation Apple rejects that characterization uh Trump does imply this sort of this for that tit fortat relationship with his administration and his of trade and so many other issues suggests that Apple should respond in kind for favorable consideration in the ongoing China trade War actually we can cut to something here yeah what's do you think is going to happen next well um the way this worked out the last time was that Apple refused and Tim Cook vowed to fight in in court the doj withdrew its demands just before the court Showdown that would have set legal preced over this and so the question is either the doj believes now that they can set that legal precedent and things will go their way or they um are are just willing to take the risk and go forward okay and I would I would say that it's a very you it's a different set of people in charge of the doj than there was back in 2016 it's a different um different approach to government and so it it remains to be seen what will actually happen here I expect Apple's pos position to remain the same the question is whether the doj will back down or not right well interesting to follow I guess and you know one of the the questions is would they be heard in a a court with a judge that had been appointed by Trump and if they had would that change things it shouldn't it it shouldn't but that's a question we could ask Point feel like I'm heading out of my depth at the moment on this one so I'm just the the let's let's talk about the technology side of this for a moment right this is an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 7 yeah you'd think criminals would be more up to date than an iPhone 5 well I mean there's that but the FBI has recently accessed locked iPhone 11 Pro Maxes with gr Key's third party tool right so you think so the an iPhone 5 should be a duddle oh well so first of all everything up into including an iPhone 10 was hackable because of a bug that was in the hardware and so you could access yeah we've talked about this in the past and so i' forgotten that sorry yeah okay scary thoughts right so which is what makes an uh XS or an XR or newer so much better is is that those don't have that bug and an iPhone 5 and an iPhone everyone can unlock those everyone right there is there is nothing prevents the FBI from or the doj from using gray key or using celite because they've all got these tools for thones that old so the question is is um what will happen here now in the 2016 case the doj claimed that they' exhausted all their internal and external options meaning that Apple's expertise was the only way forward and that apple had provide the assistance and they're claiming that again even though last time they went ahead and said okay fine we can get it and they use celebrate okay so it doesn't really feel like a uh technical discussion here it is a political one it really is it really is but celebrite for their part was recently used by the FBI um well they were they been used by the FBI but they were recently used in terms of getting data off of the phone owned by love Partners yes he's the fellow who who did it in the end hand over the phone so yeah that doesn't feel like a massive uh security extraction hacking thing warrant worthy of a film it found it feels more like a well I mean cut and past the the celebrate the question is did he give the passcode or fingerprint or face ID to unlock the phone or did he just hand over the phone but in any case celbrate was used to extract all of the messaging data from the phone including uh encrypted messaging applications like WhatsApp something I like actually about this information is in this modern world that information is available to us all to read I mean it's acted in Parts but uh you can see the conversations yourself you an approximate translation from Russian things I think that's fascinating that you know uh not very long ago that wouldn't have been possible and now we can have the information use it and understand what's going on in the world that's cool yeah yay for technology then definitely am I looking for the last week you were all about happiness am I the one trying to be positive this week you want to talk about something that did make me happy this week depends what it is actually but edly yes so Spike Jones is working on a documentary called the beasty boy story oh right yes now first of all are you you're a fan I mean I I I wouldn't be remiss to say No Sleep till Brooklyn or or Paul's Boutique or um I could name tons of beasty boy stuff that I enjoy I was going say I didn't know whether that was Beasty Boys or Spike Jones stuff those those are be boys now Spike Jones has done a number of things but one of the ones that sticks out in my memory is the music video that he did for uh fat boy Slims right here right now oh is that the one that's uh in a shopping mall and people dancing incredibly badly or something yeah yeah that was great yes look things that make me smile don't have to be executed in with with people dancing greatly right okay right but it doesn't help it's what you I'm say I'm saying that that made me smile that I like the beast boys and I like Spike Jones and I enjoyed this and so the documentary is is basically the personal story of the band and 40 Years of friendship and it's through the the lens of Mike Diamond and Adam horvitz an interesting story and one of the things about that band you so many so many bands cash in on um the licensing of their music yeah and the Beasty Boys have expressly not given permission to any to use their music for anything I currently walk around our local supermarket wearing airpods Pro playing my choice of Music rather than the supermarkets one so I I would have missed if they were in hasda in the UK but you're saying nowhere are the Beasty Boys they they have never allowed any Advertiser to use their music okay cool I think so that should be enjoyable if if you if you enjoy things like I do that might be a good one um actually sorry am I right that Spike Jones uh uh did Charlie kofman's Being John malovich that was that script in that film was amazing how long ago that was that was definitely a good script absolutely but I'm I can't remember if you worked on that we're going to say he did okay sounds good to me right in addition to that there's also going to be an animated series about a family of caretakers who live and work in New York's Central Park um that's going to be created by that's created by Lauren bashard who's the the Mind behind many animated shows uh including Bob's Bergers um it's going to have Josh Gad Leslie odm Jr Titus Buress uh Kristen Bell Stanley Tucci D Diggs and kathern hun as stars Kristen Bell uh she's in everything it's great yeah and she she is uh the legend that is Veronica Mars as well among among many other things oh actually I have never tuned into a show or watched a film because of who was in the cast or even who's directed it occasionally because of who WR wait wait so what about the good place I just tried it CU I fancied a new comedy I was not bothered by her or um Ted Danson even though I assume they'd both be good and actually they were okay and and lastly there's a docu series called home that takes a look inside the world's most Innovative homes and unveils Boundary pushing imagination of visionary who Dar to dream and build them I wonder and this is just my guess but I'm wondering if we'll see things like homekit in any of these things I was just trying to think what could possibly be Innovative about homes that hasn't been shown before on the countless home shows but yes I mean you've got you've got the The Marvelous swimming pool that's a third floor swimming pool can't delivered over a Cliff's Edge and all that kind of stuff yeah done that seen that seen it yeah um so it I don't know okay I don't that's a differentiat that would be fun you know it would be it would be it would be certainly a way to expose people to the idea that here's this marvelous architectural work and by the way all of the outfittings respond to the owner by smart devices like homepod and to be fair I think it's a way to get audiences because aren't we all a little bit drawn into houses for years I've been hoping that um hgtv's uh tour of sus Vegas's New York apartment would be on YouTube or iTunes or somewhere so you know I'm I've been pursuing that and unable to see it in the UK uh is it just me as a sucker for this stuff are you looking at me like it is okay well there are many people who enjoy home shows they're they're easy fluff to watch there's nothing controversial about them um and and they're enjoyable social com it's like sugar water it's candy drama and that's okay very character revealing what who's tided up the best yes or or the you know the the flip it kind of shows where it's the love it or listed thing you know you uh you you agree that if you don't like how someone redecorates your home you will go ahead or remodels your home that you will sell it and have to move okay I didn't know those oh yeah just knew well that that injects some drama into the the genre right instead of just we're going to borrow this person's fantastic home and spend a night here and tell you all about it and all the features kind of thing um it's it's the drama of they're going to like what we do and versus Team I'm going to show them a bunch of houses and they'll buy one it won't matter there was a patch here in the UK about God 20 years ago now where there was a show called changing rooms one called Garden force or something and they would come in and they would radically change a room or a garden and it was quite entertaining seeing the the poor person come back and pretend to be pleased oh oh so there were some we had one here called Monster House so we had one here called Monster House and monster house is based on a show called monster monster cars or something like that and and basically the concept was that instead of remodeling it for something nice and sensible that you could actually live with they would remodel it in some wild unimaginable way some like futuristic thing or or something like that and they did this to uh there was a couple where the the man was an American and his wife was originally from England she was British and they remodeled a room in her house to have a miniature version of her English Hometown wow okay and I just I said it was bizarre didn't I I mean these are the people that put like you know how in Old offices the mail room would have these vacuum tubes and you'd put your mail in a vacuum canister and it would get sucked up to the 18th floor for you kind of thing pneumatic tubes they put pneumatic tubes in someone's home why because they could they they got wind the idea that the person who owned the home that had pneumatic tubes that person must have liked UFOs since that was the most UFO thing they could do they made a UFO coffee coffee table and they put pneumatic tubes in the house the uh so this this poor woman she came home to her house and her whole living room had been converted into a model of her British Hometown and she was crestfallen she she was like well I like it I like my hometown but I don't really want to live with it why do you think I moved away okay yeah I can go back anytime I want I don't need it here in my living room was it at least well done oh it was it was amazingly well rendered but boy you could just see her her face turn Ashen and fall right and that's how we do home show drama okay or at least it was until Apple at least it was until that show got canceled many years ago yes oh fair enough so Apple might be Reviving a genre um I hope they do something question how do you you have have endly ofc homes arees and and you have to sort of Define what's Innovative yeah they've all got Hue bulbs doesn't last for two episodes does it no boundary pushing imagination of The Visionaries who dared to dream and build them well so sometimes what happens I mean this happened a few times where a an architect designs and and builds a boundary pushing home and no one wants to live in it and so the architect moves in okay okay H anyway y yes yeah okay so these these things are coming in the spring the the Spike Jones be boy story is coming to Apple TV Plus in April and it's going to debut along with uh all of these other things it's going to be shown a little bit at South by Southwest there still no news of when little voice is coming that was plugged heavily in the March launch and I'm really looking forward to it but not a word sure well well we'll let you know when it does yeah I will wake you up in the middle of night to tell you thanks yeah that's what do not disturb is for oh yes yes now we were talking previously about ight shamalan and his film his his show servant yes apple and he are being sued okay somebody just didn't like the show this is the third well I mean possibly it's m nitan but there are there are three shows now that Apple has had a problem with right Apple had had a problem with the the film that they made about the banker the banker yeah yes and and that has yet to be released while they're figuring out what they're going to do about it the next one was the problem with the documentary The with Oprah right I didn't know about this one what's going wrong with that well uh Oprah had publicly announced that she's leaving that she's taking her name away from it because she felt that it was being rushed so that they could show it at Sundance and that's not something she wants to be a part of she no longer supports what they're doing grief okay that's that's huge I'm amazed I miss that all right but you know these things happen you had me on do not disturb and you missed it that would be why okay O Okay curses I know to let Angel know these things and then we'll find out Jo I'm trying to work out what Apple's slate is I know they've launched 10 shows uh in 2019 so three out of 10 30% I mean there are more it doesn't seem an unusual amount to me I didn't even tell you what Apple's being sued over for this oh no I'm sorry yes what's wrong with uh servant well there was this 2013 film called The Truth About Emanuel okay I remember well and the the suit discusses in detail the similarities in tone plot and style between the truth about emanu and servant okay both Productions both scripts involve a reborn doll being being attended by a hired Nanny with similar themes and and similar film making techniques alleged okay I mean we cannot comment obviously on a current lawsuit seen these yeah um but uh I can tell you uh the same idea coming up in two places is preposterously common I um I've written Doctor Who radio dramas and the way it works is you you originally pitched them a single sentence so that they can come back and say now we got 10 set in the desert do something else and there was this time when I had an idea I loved so much I skipped all of that I went I went several steps down the line wrote up a uh 2word treatment of it emailed it over to my script editor seconds later he emailed back saying we love this so much we went back in time and made it made it 30 years ago yeah and when I looked up the one they'd made the title was one word different from mine it happens yeah it does but there's more than that right so the similarities that the the lawsuit alleges include not just parallel plot points but also strikingly similar and highly idiosyncratic characters scenes directorial choices and modes of Storytelling so they're saying that that it's not just lifting of the story wholesale but also these other elements and they they actually show shot forsh shot where things line up as well okay like there's there are several images here compar preparing left Emanuel right servant and so there's there's a little more than just you know the the highly coincidental but happens nature like youve described and that happens in songwriting too you know uh George Harrison's My Sweet Lord sure yeah he was sued over that because it had a lot in common with um a 1960s girl group song uh the Sam Smith song uh stay with me was incredibly similar to Tom Petty and the heartbreaker song and in the end Sam Smith had to recognize it and give Tom Petty songwriting credit okay Tom Petty's quote at the time was something to the effect of this happens it happens to all of us it happens in the studio we just don't usually release it a very long time ago a friend was working on a series here at the UK and I sent her a script I was trying to pitch to that show and she told me what was wrong with it and that basically it would never fly uh within a year she actually contacted me for advice on a script uh that was set in an area she knew I knew about uh it was the same area of the script i' sent her the characters were the same the plot was the same the story was the same whoops um pretty stupid coming to me about it but in the same way if you're going to plagiarize something uh a film that's been released seems like a daff thing to sit there with Netflix on making notes about we don't know what happened when also her version didn't get made either so she was right but they this isn't the first time someone has put shamalan and plagiarism in the same sentence really I didn't know that well in 2003 screenwriter Robert meleny alleged that signs had similarities to his unpublished script lord of the Barons the Jersey Devil the following year 2004 Margaret Peterson hadex discussed suing Shemin with Publisher Simon Shuster over similarities between the village and running out of time a novel from 1996 author Orson Scott Card has also claimed that parts of the six sense were taken from novel Lost Boys but he never sued but it's not the first time this is this has been raised as concern so right the the party suing is Franchesca gregorini and she's demanding all damages and injunction against further production recall of any inventory of the infringing material supervised destruction of any inventory disgorgement of all proceeds punitive damages uh servant of series isn't it in fact wasn't it coming back for a second run so that's multi hour um so that's an expensive show yes to pull okay yeah that's that's not a small thing now of course when you're when you're suing someone and asking for damages you and and and of course I'm slightly out of my depth here but the the historically you ask for um both a lot but at the same time you ask for things you can support how have you been damaged in what's going to make what's going to make you whole sure right so that I mean going through those things right if you you were plagiarized you would want an injunction against further production right you would want the infringing material to be recalled you would want it to be destroyed you would want the proceeds and and you would want some kind of punishment to make it not happen again yes my mind's gone to all them uh at least hundreds of people who will have worked on that series um I suppose you know they were paid but it's not the same you work on these things to get them out and to then have it denied because of uh an issue like this seems heartbreaking for pretty much everybody so definitely although I have a question about working to get paid versus working because you want to get them out um you know I I think back to uh there there Star Trek the Next Generation yes had a rule in place later on in then the production of that where they would not hire any Star Trek fans they only oh okay um yeah so you mean I'm not talking about you're a fan of horror or something right no they they only hired people to work on that show who wanted to work to to for well obviously to get it out but not because they were Star Trek fans for the love of the Star Trek thing they they were working for the dollar they were working to to get paid and the reason behind that was that there was a uh a person that they' hired on and he was a a giant Star Trek fan and he ended up filming with a camcar after hours using bits of their set and he broke Bunches of pieces of their set doing it and also just you know the violation of of sharing the things behind the scenes unauthorized and uh and so there's there's a sort of a balance there right to say that thank you yeah it's not that people who work to be paid have no investment I was hired uh to write on Doctor Who Adventures a Jordan's magazine and it turned out that I got it obviously I know Doctor Who but I was the only one who applied who applied because he wanted to learn how to write for Jordan everyone else was a doctor who fan for it there is uh you need the ability and you need the people to be focused on it but those people have to be engaged or impassioned it's yes I mean we've all taken on jobs in the media uh because we need the money but they only work if you are passionate about them so yeah um we saw this out because I was saying I felt sorry for all the people who worked on servant who might be uh who might never see their episodes uh we have no idea if it will ever come to that but I guess we'll just have to watch the news and because the is a court case and we know with court cases things tend to take a while yes we will be talking about this in the future won't we yes I'll be watching out for this one I didn't know about this whole chain of previous I'm terribly intrigued by it now so okay thank you for that I think welcome yes that's all I have I've kept you for a decent amount of time I'm so glad you were here for me um is there anything else you want to bring up um I haven't bought any Apple things this week so I think you're slipping or I'm just being benevolent oh okay right now which says benevolence means uh building up to doing something evil later doesn't it it's not the stct definition but I think we can take that William thank you so much where where can people find you on the internet I will be watching a lot of Apple TV plus uh but I'm on Twitter as W Gallagher and on uh email as William appleinsider.com what about you I'm V marks on Twitter at Victor appleinsider.com and I have started another podcast I know it's it's striking it's amazing um and it's it's in Spotify it's not in iTunes yet I'm working on getting that up but uh it is um you can find it through autismo who.com uh autism wh.com or through anchor.fm uh autism 15 I think it is let me tell you that correctly yeah can of make a stab in the dark that it might be about autism it might it might so it's it's the idea is that we talk about one part of autis or living with autism in 15 minutes so the first episode we talk about all the things that happen before you get a diagnosis how you go about getting a diagnosis for a person with autism and the second episode we talk a little bit about what kinds of things you do once you have the diagnosis and what sort of treatments are available and how to consider them kind of thing because that's that's one of the things that is really hard when you're newly exposed to or newly get a diagnosis for someone in your family is what do you do next good point I have no idea I should tune in to find out there you go so that's that's a topic that's near and dear to my heart and so now we've launched a podcast about it in any case thank you all so much for listening and I hope to hear back from you with more and uh let us know how we're doing I know we have talked about some difficult topics today uh it's it's not always easy to talk about them we try and cover things fairly and and completely even if we sometimes put some Jabs in so thank you so much and we'll be back next week n\n"