**The Future of Sports Broadcasting: How VR and AR are Changing the Game**

As we sit down to discuss the future of sports broadcasting, it's clear that traditional methods are being pushed to the side by new technologies. The answer to every sports game you watch is basically knowing all the analysis, everything. This is already a reality with the use of virtual reality (VR) and augmented reality (AR). These technologies have become an integral part of the viewing experience, providing fans with a more immersive and engaging way to enjoy their favorite sports.

The biggest use of VR and AR in sports broadcasting right now is in live events such as concerts. The example that was mentioned earlier is a great illustration of this. For instance, when Fortnite recently hosted in-game concerts featuring specific musicians, it was a huge success. Fans logged in to watch the concert, and it provided a unique experience that would have been impossible without the use of VR and AR.

One of the most exciting developments in sports broadcasting is the potential for VR and AR to bring fans closer to the action. With traditional broadcasts often limited to views from the stands or stadium, VR and AR allow fans to be anywhere they want, even if it's not physically possible. This could lead to a whole new level of engagement and excitement among fans.

However, there is also a concern that this technology could become overwhelming or annoying for viewers. The key will be finding a balance between providing an immersive experience and avoiding over-the-top features that might alienate viewers. As the saying goes, "democracy" wins out in the end, meaning that if a feature becomes too annoying or unwanted, people won't watch it.

The good news is that there are already many options available to fans who want to experience sports in new and innovative ways. With the rise of streaming services and social media platforms, there has never been more choice when it comes to watching sports. This means that broadcasters will need to adapt to changing viewer habits and preferences if they want to remain relevant.

In terms of future developments, the team at NDI is excited about the potential for VR and AR in sports broadcasting. According to Andrew Krauss, a legend in the industry, "our goal is to connect anyone anywhere" through their technology. This vision for the future is ambitious but exciting, and it will be interesting to see how NDI's products evolve over time.

One of the most anticipated developments in the world of VR and AR is the upcoming 4.5 update for the Android app. Although there is no iOS version yet, fans are eagerly waiting for the release of this new update, which promises some exciting features. The team at NDI is also working on a cover for the Android or iOS apps, which will provide an even more seamless user experience.

Of course, one of the most significant developments in VR and AR is the upcoming 5.0 update. This is the big one, and it's expected to revolutionize the way we interact with video content. With the potential to connect anyone anywhere, this technology has the power to change the world. As Krauss said, "that's what'll make a difference," when we can bring people together through VR and AR.

As we look to the future of sports broadcasting, it's clear that VR and AR are going to play an increasingly important role. Whether you're watching live events or looking for new ways to engage with your favorite teams, these technologies offer something special. Stay tuned for more updates on NDI and their products, as well as other exciting developments in the world of VR and AR.

**Upcoming Updates and Announcements**

One of the most significant announcements in recent times is the release of 4.5. This update promises to bring some exciting new features, including improved performance and user interface. Fans are eagerly awaiting this release, which will provide a more seamless experience for users.

Of course, one of the most anticipated developments in VR and AR is the upcoming 5.0 update. This is expected to revolutionize the way we interact with video content, providing a level of immersion and engagement that was previously unimaginable. According to Krauss, "that's what'll make a difference" when we can bring people together through this technology.

As for other updates or announcements, there are several exciting developments on the horizon. The team at NDI is always pushing the boundaries of what is possible with VR and AR, and it will be interesting to see how their products evolve over time.

**Conclusion**

In conclusion, the future of sports broadcasting is looking brighter than ever. With the rise of VR and AR, traditional methods are being pushed to the side by new technologies that offer something special. From live events like concerts to immersive viewing experiences, these technologies have the potential to change the way we engage with our favorite teams.

As we look to the future, it's clear that NDI is leading the charge in this area. With their commitment to connecting anyone anywhere and providing an immersive experience, they are revolutionizing the world of sports broadcasting. Stay tuned for more updates on NDI and their products, as well as other exciting developments in the world of VR and AR.

**Getting Involved**

If you're interested in staying up-to-date with the latest developments in VR and AR, there are several ways to get involved. Follow NDI's social media channels to stay informed about new releases and updates. You can also join online communities and forums to discuss the latest trends and innovations in this field.

In addition, if you have any questions or comments about VR and AR, feel free to reach out to us. We'd love to hear from you and provide more information on how these technologies are changing the world of sports broadcasting.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: eni have never been more excited for a video that's so far off my normal content production whatever as i am for this one today i'm interviewing dr andrew cross from new tech and v bizarre t uh which is their parent company now who is the father of the tricaster and the creator of ndi the software-based video capture and broadcast technology that i have ranted on and on and on about in videos that allows you to essentially not need a capture card to stream out previews from your adobe apps to stream real-time unreal engine demos and even 16-channel audio for audio mastering suites all sorts of stuff it is amazing this man has done so much for the video community and video production scene that even i don't know all about and i learned a lot just from this interview alone and i can really appreciate his passion for making video more accessible that's literally why i started this channel why i started doing obs tutorials streaming guides things like that was because i saw how complicated and in some ways completely inaccessible video production was my entire life growing up and i said hey i want to help make that easier by explaining it and that's literally what he's all about and i can just appreciate that so much this was a wonderful conversation and i'll let you get right into it because we got a lot to talk about so my name is andrew cross and i'm the head of r d here at vsrt group and you know ndi was was this crazy idea i had you know a few years ago now um so that's kind of what i've done and who i am i guess short question so you mentioned india being a crazy idea that you had what what actually led to you wanting to create this crazy technology was it a spin-off of something else or was it purely just i want to avoid having hardware for capturing video no um so there's actually quite a long story behind adi i mean the the first of all we had been working on ip technology for quite some time we we believe right you know we've believed for years that the the software was the future and um it became very clear to me that that what was going to happen was that that this idea that in our industry things like these proprietary hdmi cables sdi cables the whole world had gone to ip and it needed somebody to help do that and you know i was actually out running one day and it just became so obvious to me that we had already worked on bringing a bunch of companies together around our kind of proprietary ip standard and we needed to take that and give it kind of to the world and i actually came in and i said to everybody guys i think we're going to give this away and everybody thought i was crazy um because you know we had kept it as a kind of a an advantage and i remember people saying but there's going to help all your competitors and stuff but i think that the you know we are helped more by having video interconnect between people all over the world than we are by anything else and you know that was what drove the creation of it is i i just really saw that this was the direction the you know the industry as a whole needed to go we needed to you know the benefit of computers is that you could do video on them that you can use this to spread your word and if you can't have them talking video easily they aren't they aren't reaching their full potential and we needed to help do that and so that that was what drove you know the creation of inti originally interesting so you thought it was far more important to kind of be the one who got ahead and actually provided it than to just make a bunch of money off of it from a few select you know companies that may have bought it up and kept it kind of hush-hush on the back end well well what we did is you know we made production systems and we could connect to a bunch of companies and only them and it only benefited us and them um and we just thought you know we why limit this to us we should give this to everybody we should let you know obs use this we should let vmix use this we should let you know wirecast use this and it wouldn't just remain proprietary to our systems and if we did that you know just the bigger you know our belief was that the bigger the bigger goal was to get more people doing video more people doing ip video um and i think it i mean it it did that far better than we could have imagined of course it's interesting to look five years you know going back five years now how this has worked out but that was the original thing that drove our creation of this so you mentioned it's beyond your expectations so are there any specific like applications of it or like fields that it's being utilized in that you didn't really expect it to take off in compared to the traditional kind of broadcast or production space yes but maybe the best the best illustration of that is that that so if you'd asked me five years ago or four years ago who's using it i probably could have listed i could have given you an easy answer i could have easily answered your question right and somewhere along the way it's it's got used in so many places in so many incredible ways that i'd not expected that i've lost track which which kind of is maybe i i don't know who's using it for what hardly anymore i mean yesterday i talked to a a somebody who runs probably one of the biggest theme parks in the world and they're using it for large projection screens who would have thought interesting you know stage presentations um i can tell you some of the screens on times square are being driven by i mean you know something that blows my mind is that that on an average week right now you know we're seeing well over a thousand downloads of just the sdk so this is what software developers use right this is not the end user tools this is just the the software developers and that you know obviously just exceeds anything i would have imagined and so it's somewhere there it got a life its own that that's you know we we thought about it in the production world and how it's going to help live production in in mid and low range broadcast but it's clearly become much more than that and and you know it's kind of like like you know we have kids and we watch our kids grow up and that's kind of what this is and so it's it's left home and had a life its own now that's a cool thing so good relative to my life at the moment analogy did you expect of all things for it to really take off in kind of the more independent creator space versus i mean controlling the screens on times square is pretty you know hard to fathom at this point and considering you mentioned the theme park projections i still have some rack mount gear that you use to send like a cf card over the network to do that kind of thing so that's pretty cool but specifically with you know people like me sitting in our bedrooms or their mother's basements or whatever using it did you expect even it to even reach that kind of micro level first of all to me that's not the micro level and i i say that in complete honesty i think that that new tech as a company you know we started as a company out of tim jennison's garage and we've always believed that our mission was to we we believed that tv shouldn't be confined to the highest end whatever we thought that that everybody should who wanted to make a show would be able to make a show and so in many ways ndi is just an outreach to that that's why we went we built everything around computers right that's why we we focus so much time on ip and internet is because those are the things that enabled everybody to make videos so if anything that was really far more what we wanted to do than help high-end customers um and so i i you know i feel like you know i see people like yours yourself and others using it as well our true mission was all along more than anything else and that gives me greater satisfaction than times square or the other ones yeah but but it's true um because it allows you know times square can run no matter the technology they could work it out but you know when you're enabling people to make shows who couldn't make shows now you're doing something meaningful and i prefer to be doing things that are meaningful and things that aren't so you know that that is what matters really i can certainly appreciate that so obviously as you just described accessibility is kind of the forefront the goal i can appreciate that i got into creating tech education like this because i hated that throughout my educational path all of the film stuff was all this closed door hush hush you don't if you don't know you don't deserve to know kind of aspect um and so i love seeing more of this become democratized and accessible as a as a company what do you like you know what do you get about me going and downloading the tools and using it for free is there an expected upgrade path of if i launch a broadcast career i go buy a tricaster or is it truly just you already have everything else you know your own business model going and you're truly just you don't care who what they do with it after the fact if they use it and leave it there then you're fine with that you know the honest answer is um i want you to use it and i don't expect you to ever pay us anything or buy anything from us i hope that one day when you you know if you feel like like you need something yeah you'd consider it but but the more people doing video the better that will that you know if we if we can rise all boats and that ends up helping us too but but you know but honestly the the the reason the reason we're doing it is because we we want to see computers being used for video we want to see that we the more of that the better whether it's with our systems or not the more the world accepts that the better whether with our systems or not and and you know look at at the end of the day you know we're all going to you know want to look back one day and go how did we make a difference we want to help we don't want to be the company that didn't make a difference to the industry that just focused exactly on what we we need and if you can do both at the same time that's even better so you know i guess that that's a bit the realistic answer but but but we don't have we are not secretly trying to trap people into buying our systems i i work openly and directly with every one of our competitors i probably know most of them by name and you know would happily help them debug any problems they're having i mean i think that that's just the way to be working that's the way i would hope they would work with us and we need to do the same and and you know that's right way to run a business anyway i i certainly appreciate that answer um and it's not just computers anymore that we're streaming from i know that the new hx capture and camera apps have just launched on ios as well do you foresee a bigger focus being put on mobile devices or do you just think that it's an extra tool in the tool shed or do you see it being kind of like a stronger focus moving forward i think that you know in some ways when we talk computers we aren't talking computers we're talking i mean computers in the world can be anything if you're an alien and you came to this planet and you tried to work out what a computer was you think it's a mobile phone and not a desktop see the you know the revolution that is happening is around mobile and if we don't spread the use of ip video to mobile we're not really being successful so that i mean that is the long answer which is you know mobile form a huge part of the the ecosystem that is sharing media moving video between wireless digital networks and with you know for ip video to be successful it has to be there um if it's you know i i would argue that that is more what you know video needs to be and where it needs to be going that than some of the other uses and the world's going to change there and it's changing faster there than any anything we would have imagined and we need to help there too so that that is why you know so so things like these apps are important because they start to let videos flow between those devices freely right that that is valuable um you know that more than 50 percent of game streaming down on the web is now being done off mobile devices um that is a staggering number we don't think about that but you know that means there's more people doing game streaming of you know angry birds than then fortnite you know that should put into perspective how important mobile ultimately is going to be it's a good way of putting it can you give us any sneak peek as to when it's returning to android since it's only ios at the moment you know so so the the the answer the the the genuine answer there is if i had more than 24 hours in a day this would be done you know a lot of things you know we we would love to do it and if i you know we happen to have known ios you know more so we were quick at getting there we want it to be an android i could tell you that our ultimate goal is see i think that the the the real answer to that question is it's not about android it's not about ios what you want is you want to be able to move media between all the platforms and that needs to be the broader solution of what we're trying to do and those platforms aren't just ios and android they're just web browsers they are computers and that is what we're focusing as much and more effort on is how to do that so if you want to say okay so if you look in the mirror what is the real revolution here that's going to happen it's not going to be that we make an android app it's going to be that we find ways to move it anywhere easily anyhow and that's what we're trying to do and android is just maybe a small part of that right open some doors for some ideas i have um on the non-free side since there's so much focus recently i know the apps have been made free anyway do you anticipate developing any b2c products instead of just b2b stuff that are more on the accessible end for example blackmagic just recently released the atom mini and a2 mini pro which takes their super inaccessible line and makes it something i can go out and buy right now do you foresee any sort of more accessible just like straight ndi capture solutions that are maybe a downgrade from the spark but you know still a dedicated product versus purely computer or are you purely just sticking with software as the main goal at the moment so i i don't i genuinely don't know i'm not trying to avoid the answer i genuinely don't know i mean i think it's it's you know getting getting into and being successful in the consumer space is difficult and that that is not where our natural you know our natural home is that doesn't mean that maybe we shouldn't try and and you know we're very open to that i think that right we work very much and very actively with a lot of very key partners in that space and i think that we can have a big impact on it there but you know some of this comes back to your original question which is is our goal justify is this a secret money making trick and i think i've kind of given you the real honest answer which is no it's not right um you know somewhat you know are we interested in that yes probably is our strategy are we going to become the consumer and are you you know consumer driven company that's going to start finding a way to charge you for your obs useful um that's absolutely not our plan um you know we we see that there are companies that are going to do that better than us and we should let them do that better than us um and if they use ndi for that that's actually great for everybody so so i don't know is the answer but but you know it's not a simple yes yes we're going to go and do that and find ways to monetize this in that way right that makes sense so changing gears a little bit i know that as we mentioned there's a ridiculous amount of usage for ndi going at the moment um bigger numbers than i expected to be honest um which is pretty cool but there's still some out there who cling to their their graybeard sdi and hdmi fl you know workflows what do you think is necessary to kind of get not necessarily anybody specific but some who may see okay i'm going to look first at a spaghetti monster of cable before my solution before a software solution what do you think that next like convincing or eye-opening moment needs to be or do you think that's even important do you think it'll just prove itself over time and they'll have to get with the times or you know be behind so that that is a that is a good question that probably has a complicated answer because first of all i don't know you know so you're using headphones right now and you are connected um to the computer by probably a quarter inch jack right yep you could they go so you could use wireless um you know you could be using bluetooth and you you chose not to um right and there's reasons for that yeah yeah well but you see that's the thing and with different things make sense for different uses and i don't think this isn't religion i think that you know the the the sdi and hdmi have a place um and i i should not be the person that says no it should go away um i think that um and i think ndi has a place um and i think they are somewhat different and i think if i as the guy who probably you know has done more to create ndi that than than many wanted a hook a camera just up to a a monitor i would use sdi myself because it just works right but i know that once i'm within my building the magic of me putting it onto the network and seeing everything else is is genuinely magical in a way that i hadn't expected and it's the right tool for that you so so i think it's a complicated answer but i you know in terms of your question of how do you convince people i do think that once you use it it suddenly is more than you think it is right and i think that you know and and i remember this very clearly because i i actually we designed its use in our products and i had this idea about how it would work and i was actually up at new tech working one evening late one evening and my kids were annoying me why i wasn't home and um the first time we actually saw ndi running and suddenly seeing all these sources on the network i just actually remember it very much because i had designed this i mean a lot of this was things that i'd suggested that we work on and yet when i saw it running and i had a computer that was not connected had no sdi connections on it it suddenly felt very different from what what i expected and i actually remember i actually sat lent back on my on my chair and i took a photo of our system running this and i sent it to the owner of the company and said this this is the future and he texted me and said what the heck is this but somehow in using it it felt so different from just hooking everything up with the sdi connections and i do think that you know until people sit down and use it and put it on the network and see that you know the auto discovery has something magical about it and suddenly you hook up another source and suddenly can use another source and the flexibility that that gives you you don't get that until you actually do it and so i would say that you know for a lot of the people using sdi that they need to try it because i think that they will understand that there is something just magical about working that way and it doesn't replace sdi but it certainly is different and allows for different things to be done and to think about productions in very different ways that's a good way of putting it and actually it's funny that you described it in that way because this is going to sound really silly but the first way that like i got really excited about it when i was messing with it was a similar feeling to when i first connected to a school network for playing online computer games and going from traditionally you know i didn't have a whole lot of computer games until a certain point going from expecting you know a split screen kind of console setup to just being like there's 20 other people in this building playing the same game that i can just hop on with them and i don't need to be sitting on the couch next to them or anything like that that same kind of you know suddenly the world is opening up a little bit wider for where i can put my time is a lot of fun but but i think you're exactly right and so i think that you know back to your original question which was how does this replace sdr you see that was never what sdr was meant to solve this you know sdi is like gamers where you could connect in the very old days i'm showing my age here two computers together via serial cable and game over serial cable and you know arguably that's easier to use than getting on doing online but online gaming opens up a whole new way of you know new set of things and that's that's what i think you know really the comparison between ndi and sdi is quite frankly i guess to wrap things up here and easy well it could be easier it could be really difficult one for you in the overall video broadcast world what tech or what you know developing thing is most exciting new right now like what are you looking forward to either playing with or seeing get like further development going be it ndi related or something just broader okay so this is a this is this is a very interesting question and i think a lot of people would say well it's going to be 4k or 8k or vr or ar or something like that and i i'm very i mean i think those are natural steps in the same way that that car is getting better and you know the stereo's getting better and things like that get gradually better but they don't change your life right and that's where we are with a lot of those technologies so i think that the the things that will change the video world are going to be number one is going to be accessibility um i think that camera's getting better and cheaper um i think that you know the cell phones means that you have a great camera anywhere you go that is game changing um moving video between these is then obviously as a challenge which you now you know why we're thinking about that because we should be connecting devices anywhere to anywhere and i think this enables things that people aren't thinking about right and then you know so i think that the accessibility is what will change video um and tv stations so i keep thinking about this because you know a big part of our business is in the is in the broadcast video world and you know right now they are producing shows in totally different ways um and i keep thinking okay so what happens when they go back into their tv studio and get back to work and if they're anything like me you know they're going to go and get the coffee in the morning go back into their studio probably sit down for either side relief and go i'm glad i'm not in my garage anymore right and we'll go back to producing largely how they did before except some things will have changed and one of the things that will have changed is i think they will think well gosh we did an interview much like what we're doing we were not in the same room we do this this was enabled by ip technology now we've got to be able to bring callers that's something that's going to stick with tv the fact that they are they are working remotely and that is about accessibility um so i think accessibility is what's going to change video i think beyond that um you know the vast majority everything we're doing everything you're doing everything tv stations doing is driven by ads and i think that you know the the the this is becoming a this th that world is going to change and the world is going to change in that you know this idea that that in the middle of a show you do a hard cut to an ad right is got to be history i mean the first of all technology allows you to skip that but but realistically that's not that's not what consumers want um you know they don't want that that's why they're trying to skip it but you know but but it is what funds the vast majority of all production in fact the vast majority of our media and so that's going to be an area that changes and i think that it's going to be that's going to be the revolution of vr and ar you know the real revolution of those is going to be that they allow ads and the way we monetize media to become far more part of the show so that it it is what consumers want and what the media producers want and so i actually think that if i look 20 years out that's going to be one of the big revolutions and people are going to look back at tv how as it is today and go what the heck where did my show stop you know why did it stop and show me something else that and that that will be probably the next big change i think so i think accessibility and then i think the way this all gets funded has to change um or it won't work and and but it's got it's got to work so i think those are going to be the big things and i think you know it's funny people keep talking about how vr and air take off it's going to be advertising is the answer and not computer games or the other things they're looking at or social media or whatever it's going to be it's going to be in the media space that's going to be the big use of it um it's already the biggest use of it i mean that's the thing is if i got asked the other day where vrna i was really getting used and the answer is every sports game you watch is basically you know all the analysis everything now is already vr and ar that's the biggest use of it already today and that's going to grow and it's going to cover more areas so i think those are the things that i see as you know the big the big changing areas interesting that is a lot to think on a brief uh tangential example you mentioned the basically the experience is built with advertising and vr and ar and currently we are experiencing with the fortnight game they're doing in-game like concerts at the moment for specific musicians and everyone logs in and watches this concert and i'm already starting to feel like an old guy because to me that's just kind of like huh but translate that into vr and ar and suddenly it makes a lot more sense and they've been trying to do that with wrestling recently and things like that since the stands are empty and so i really i'm excited to see how that evolves assuming it doesn't turn into some tv show parody where like every time you look around it's like ding you want this do you want this because but but but you know democracy democracy kind of wins out in that when they start doing shows that are annoying to watch people don't watch them right and so there was this natural balance between you know taking it too far because people just won't watch it then right and so you know i think that that is the hope i have it you know that's the faith i have the tv won't become totally unwatchable because you know then people will not watch it and they will go and watch something somewhere else um and given that there are far more options for that today i think this is generally means that it is a good time for tv because it does mean that tv gets driven far more around what is worth watching right than just commercial needs or that you're the one with the fcc license um you know which is why tv is changing for the better probably right um awesome well solid answer i really appreciate you sitting down and talking with me today this has been wonderful i have a lot to dig into still regarding ndi and i still have a lot of videos coming up hint about some of the technology that we can do with it because it unlocks many doors beyond what one guy sitting in in office making videos can even do and i'm excited to dig into more of that are there any upcoming announcements or any updates recently you want to tease or it's all i know 4.5 just dropped i need to cover that soon that's got a lot of cool features in it i get you know 5.0 is is is going to be the big one for us i mean i i've i've i've said you know our goal is to connect anyone anywhere and that that's what we're looking to do because that that's the endgame here it shouldn't be you know i mean if we can connect the whole world of video that that's that's what'll make a difference and that's what we're trying to do awesome i'm looking forward to that because i have some ideas in my head about how that might happen so i'm very excited to see how that you shoot me an email i'd love to hear them all righty well thank you so much uh everybody can go check out links to various ndi related things in the video description and thanks so much i hope you have a great rest of your week there's only a couple days left but yeah well thank you so much it was great talking to you likewise this was this was a lot of fun i have not done very many interviews and this by far has been my favorite that i've ever done like it's gone the smoothness i had the most best time out of all of them talking about it thank you so much to the new tech viz rt and ndi team for making this happen super thanks to dr andrew krauss for coming on and chatting about this the dude is a legend and i hope to chat with him more and i hope to cover more ndi topics on the channel moving forward i've been i put up my video essay about it if you want to learn what ndi is what it's all about i'll have that linked in the video description i have a video coming on the new 4.5 update that just released with some cool stuff coming soon a cover of the android or ios apps rather still no android um as well as uh there whenever that 5.0 update comes out i am super stoked to check that out thank you so much for watching thank you so much for your support hope you enjoyed this i truly do i hope you learned a thing or two as well hit the like button subscribe for more tech education and stream guides i'm eposvox your stream professor i'll see you lateri have never been more excited for a video that's so far off my normal content production whatever as i am for this one today i'm interviewing dr andrew cross from new tech and v bizarre t uh which is their parent company now who is the father of the tricaster and the creator of ndi the software-based video capture and broadcast technology that i have ranted on and on and on about in videos that allows you to essentially not need a capture card to stream out previews from your adobe apps to stream real-time unreal engine demos and even 16-channel audio for audio mastering suites all sorts of stuff it is amazing this man has done so much for the video community and video production scene that even i don't know all about and i learned a lot just from this interview alone and i can really appreciate his passion for making video more accessible that's literally why i started this channel why i started doing obs tutorials streaming guides things like that was because i saw how complicated and in some ways completely inaccessible video production was my entire life growing up and i said hey i want to help make that easier by explaining it and that's literally what he's all about and i can just appreciate that so much this was a wonderful conversation and i'll let you get right into it because we got a lot to talk about so my name is andrew cross and i'm the head of r d here at vsrt group and you know ndi was was this crazy idea i had you know a few years ago now um so that's kind of what i've done and who i am i guess short question so you mentioned india being a crazy idea that you had what what actually led to you wanting to create this crazy technology was it a spin-off of something else or was it purely just i want to avoid having hardware for capturing video no um so there's actually quite a long story behind adi i mean the the first of all we had been working on ip technology for quite some time we we believe right you know we've believed for years that the the software was the future and um it became very clear to me that that what was going to happen was that that this idea that in our industry things like these proprietary hdmi cables sdi cables the whole world had gone to ip and it needed somebody to help do that and you know i was actually out running one day and it just became so obvious to me that we had already worked on bringing a bunch of companies together around our kind of proprietary ip standard and we needed to take that and give it kind of to the world and i actually came in and i said to everybody guys i think we're going to give this away and everybody thought i was crazy um because you know we had kept it as a kind of a an advantage and i remember people saying but there's going to help all your competitors and stuff but i think that the you know we are helped more by having video interconnect between people all over the world than we are by anything else and you know that was what drove the creation of it is i i just really saw that this was the direction the you know the industry as a whole needed to go we needed to you know the benefit of computers is that you could do video on them that you can use this to spread your word and if you can't have them talking video easily they aren't they aren't reaching their full potential and we needed to help do that and so that that was what drove you know the creation of inti originally interesting so you thought it was far more important to kind of be the one who got ahead and actually provided it than to just make a bunch of money off of it from a few select you know companies that may have bought it up and kept it kind of hush-hush on the back end well well what we did is you know we made production systems and we could connect to a bunch of companies and only them and it only benefited us and them um and we just thought you know we why limit this to us we should give this to everybody we should let you know obs use this we should let vmix use this we should let you know wirecast use this and it wouldn't just remain proprietary to our systems and if we did that you know just the bigger you know our belief was that the bigger the bigger goal was to get more people doing video more people doing ip video um and i think it i mean it it did that far better than we could have imagined of course it's interesting to look five years you know going back five years now how this has worked out but that was the original thing that drove our creation of this so you mentioned it's beyond your expectations so are there any specific like applications of it or like fields that it's being utilized in that you didn't really expect it to take off in compared to the traditional kind of broadcast or production space yes but maybe the best the best illustration of that is that that so if you'd asked me five years ago or four years ago who's using it i probably could have listed i could have given you an easy answer i could have easily answered your question right and somewhere along the way it's it's got used in so many places in so many incredible ways that i'd not expected that i've lost track which which kind of is maybe i i don't know who's using it for what hardly anymore i mean yesterday i talked to a a somebody who runs probably one of the biggest theme parks in the world and they're using it for large projection screens who would have thought interesting you know stage presentations um i can tell you some of the screens on times square are being driven by i mean you know something that blows my mind is that that on an average week right now you know we're seeing well over a thousand downloads of just the sdk so this is what software developers use right this is not the end user tools this is just the the software developers and that you know obviously just exceeds anything i would have imagined and so it's somewhere there it got a life its own that that's you know we we thought about it in the production world and how it's going to help live production in in mid and low range broadcast but it's clearly become much more than that and and you know it's kind of like like you know we have kids and we watch our kids grow up and that's kind of what this is and so it's it's left home and had a life its own now that's a cool thing so good relative to my life at the moment analogy did you expect of all things for it to really take off in kind of the more independent creator space versus i mean controlling the screens on times square is pretty you know hard to fathom at this point and considering you mentioned the theme park projections i still have some rack mount gear that you use to send like a cf card over the network to do that kind of thing so that's pretty cool but specifically with you know people like me sitting in our bedrooms or their mother's basements or whatever using it did you expect even it to even reach that kind of micro level first of all to me that's not the micro level and i i say that in complete honesty i think that that new tech as a company you know we started as a company out of tim jennison's garage and we've always believed that our mission was to we we believed that tv shouldn't be confined to the highest end whatever we thought that that everybody should who wanted to make a show would be able to make a show and so in many ways ndi is just an outreach to that that's why we went we built everything around computers right that's why we we focus so much time on ip and internet is because those are the things that enabled everybody to make videos so if anything that was really far more what we wanted to do than help high-end customers um and so i i you know i feel like you know i see people like yours yourself and others using it as well our true mission was all along more than anything else and that gives me greater satisfaction than times square or the other ones yeah but but it's true um because it allows you know times square can run no matter the technology they could work it out but you know when you're enabling people to make shows who couldn't make shows now you're doing something meaningful and i prefer to be doing things that are meaningful and things that aren't so you know that that is what matters really i can certainly appreciate that so obviously as you just described accessibility is kind of the forefront the goal i can appreciate that i got into creating tech education like this because i hated that throughout my educational path all of the film stuff was all this closed door hush hush you don't if you don't know you don't deserve to know kind of aspect um and so i love seeing more of this become democratized and accessible as a as a company what do you like you know what do you get about me going and downloading the tools and using it for free is there an expected upgrade path of if i launch a broadcast career i go buy a tricaster or is it truly just you already have everything else you know your own business model going and you're truly just you don't care who what they do with it after the fact if they use it and leave it there then you're fine with that you know the honest answer is um i want you to use it and i don't expect you to ever pay us anything or buy anything from us i hope that one day when you you know if you feel like like you need something yeah you'd consider it but but the more people doing video the better that will that you know if we if we can rise all boats and that ends up helping us too but but you know but honestly the the the reason the reason we're doing it is because we we want to see computers being used for video we want to see that we the more of that the better whether it's with our systems or not the more the world accepts that the better whether with our systems or not and and you know look at at the end of the day you know we're all going to you know want to look back one day and go how did we make a difference we want to help we don't want to be the company that didn't make a difference to the industry that just focused exactly on what we we need and if you can do both at the same time that's even better so you know i guess that that's a bit the realistic answer but but but we don't have we are not secretly trying to trap people into buying our systems i i work openly and directly with every one of our competitors i probably know most of them by name and you know would happily help them debug any problems they're having i mean i think that that's just the way to be working that's the way i would hope they would work with us and we need to do the same and and you know that's right way to run a business anyway i i certainly appreciate that answer um and it's not just computers anymore that we're streaming from i know that the new hx capture and camera apps have just launched on ios as well do you foresee a bigger focus being put on mobile devices or do you just think that it's an extra tool in the tool shed or do you see it being kind of like a stronger focus moving forward i think that you know in some ways when we talk computers we aren't talking computers we're talking i mean computers in the world can be anything if you're an alien and you came to this planet and you tried to work out what a computer was you think it's a mobile phone and not a desktop see the you know the revolution that is happening is around mobile and if we don't spread the use of ip video to mobile we're not really being successful so that i mean that is the long answer which is you know mobile form a huge part of the the ecosystem that is sharing media moving video between wireless digital networks and with you know for ip video to be successful it has to be there um if it's you know i i would argue that that is more what you know video needs to be and where it needs to be going that than some of the other uses and the world's going to change there and it's changing faster there than any anything we would have imagined and we need to help there too so that that is why you know so so things like these apps are important because they start to let videos flow between those devices freely right that that is valuable um you know that more than 50 percent of game streaming down on the web is now being done off mobile devices um that is a staggering number we don't think about that but you know that means there's more people doing game streaming of you know angry birds than then fortnite you know that should put into perspective how important mobile ultimately is going to be it's a good way of putting it can you give us any sneak peek as to when it's returning to android since it's only ios at the moment you know so so the the the answer the the the genuine answer there is if i had more than 24 hours in a day this would be done you know a lot of things you know we we would love to do it and if i you know we happen to have known ios you know more so we were quick at getting there we want it to be an android i could tell you that our ultimate goal is see i think that the the the real answer to that question is it's not about android it's not about ios what you want is you want to be able to move media between all the platforms and that needs to be the broader solution of what we're trying to do and those platforms aren't just ios and android they're just web browsers they are computers and that is what we're focusing as much and more effort on is how to do that so if you want to say okay so if you look in the mirror what is the real revolution here that's going to happen it's not going to be that we make an android app it's going to be that we find ways to move it anywhere easily anyhow and that's what we're trying to do and android is just maybe a small part of that right open some doors for some ideas i have um on the non-free side since there's so much focus recently i know the apps have been made free anyway do you anticipate developing any b2c products instead of just b2b stuff that are more on the accessible end for example blackmagic just recently released the atom mini and a2 mini pro which takes their super inaccessible line and makes it something i can go out and buy right now do you foresee any sort of more accessible just like straight ndi capture solutions that are maybe a downgrade from the spark but you know still a dedicated product versus purely computer or are you purely just sticking with software as the main goal at the moment so i i don't i genuinely don't know i'm not trying to avoid the answer i genuinely don't know i mean i think it's it's you know getting getting into and being successful in the consumer space is difficult and that that is not where our natural you know our natural home is that doesn't mean that maybe we shouldn't try and and you know we're very open to that i think that right we work very much and very actively with a lot of very key partners in that space and i think that we can have a big impact on it there but you know some of this comes back to your original question which is is our goal justify is this a secret money making trick and i think i've kind of given you the real honest answer which is no it's not right um you know somewhat you know are we interested in that yes probably is our strategy are we going to become the consumer and are you you know consumer driven company that's going to start finding a way to charge you for your obs useful um that's absolutely not our plan um you know we we see that there are companies that are going to do that better than us and we should let them do that better than us um and if they use ndi for that that's actually great for everybody so so i don't know is the answer but but you know it's not a simple yes yes we're going to go and do that and find ways to monetize this in that way right that makes sense so changing gears a little bit i know that as we mentioned there's a ridiculous amount of usage for ndi going at the moment um bigger numbers than i expected to be honest um which is pretty cool but there's still some out there who cling to their their graybeard sdi and hdmi fl you know workflows what do you think is necessary to kind of get not necessarily anybody specific but some who may see okay i'm going to look first at a spaghetti monster of cable before my solution before a software solution what do you think that next like convincing or eye-opening moment needs to be or do you think that's even important do you think it'll just prove itself over time and they'll have to get with the times or you know be behind so that that is a that is a good question that probably has a complicated answer because first of all i don't know you know so you're using headphones right now and you are connected um to the computer by probably a quarter inch jack right yep you could they go so you could use wireless um you know you could be using bluetooth and you you chose not to um right and there's reasons for that yeah yeah well but you see that's the thing and with different things make sense for different uses and i don't think this isn't religion i think that you know the the the sdi and hdmi have a place um and i i should not be the person that says no it should go away um i think that um and i think ndi has a place um and i think they are somewhat different and i think if i as the guy who probably you know has done more to create ndi that than than many wanted a hook a camera just up to a a monitor i would use sdi myself because it just works right but i know that once i'm within my building the magic of me putting it onto the network and seeing everything else is is genuinely magical in a way that i hadn't expected and it's the right tool for that you so so i think it's a complicated answer but i you know in terms of your question of how do you convince people i do think that once you use it it suddenly is more than you think it is right and i think that you know and and i remember this very clearly because i i actually we designed its use in our products and i had this idea about how it would work and i was actually up at new tech working one evening late one evening and my kids were annoying me why i wasn't home and um the first time we actually saw ndi running and suddenly seeing all these sources on the network i just actually remember it very much because i had designed this i mean a lot of this was things that i'd suggested that we work on and yet when i saw it running and i had a computer that was not connected had no sdi connections on it it suddenly felt very different from what what i expected and i actually remember i actually sat lent back on my on my chair and i took a photo of our system running this and i sent it to the owner of the company and said this this is the future and he texted me and said what the heck is this but somehow in using it it felt so different from just hooking everything up with the sdi connections and i do think that you know until people sit down and use it and put it on the network and see that you know the auto discovery has something magical about it and suddenly you hook up another source and suddenly can use another source and the flexibility that that gives you you don't get that until you actually do it and so i would say that you know for a lot of the people using sdi that they need to try it because i think that they will understand that there is something just magical about working that way and it doesn't replace sdi but it certainly is different and allows for different things to be done and to think about productions in very different ways that's a good way of putting it and actually it's funny that you described it in that way because this is going to sound really silly but the first way that like i got really excited about it when i was messing with it was a similar feeling to when i first connected to a school network for playing online computer games and going from traditionally you know i didn't have a whole lot of computer games until a certain point going from expecting you know a split screen kind of console setup to just being like there's 20 other people in this building playing the same game that i can just hop on with them and i don't need to be sitting on the couch next to them or anything like that that same kind of you know suddenly the world is opening up a little bit wider for where i can put my time is a lot of fun but but i think you're exactly right and so i think that you know back to your original question which was how does this replace sdr you see that was never what sdr was meant to solve this you know sdi is like gamers where you could connect in the very old days i'm showing my age here two computers together via serial cable and game over serial cable and you know arguably that's easier to use than getting on doing online but online gaming opens up a whole new way of you know new set of things and that's that's what i think you know really the comparison between ndi and sdi is quite frankly i guess to wrap things up here and easy well it could be easier it could be really difficult one for you in the overall video broadcast world what tech or what you know developing thing is most exciting new right now like what are you looking forward to either playing with or seeing get like further development going be it ndi related or something just broader okay so this is a this is this is a very interesting question and i think a lot of people would say well it's going to be 4k or 8k or vr or ar or something like that and i i'm very i mean i think those are natural steps in the same way that that car is getting better and you know the stereo's getting better and things like that get gradually better but they don't change your life right and that's where we are with a lot of those technologies so i think that the the things that will change the video world are going to be number one is going to be accessibility um i think that camera's getting better and cheaper um i think that you know the cell phones means that you have a great camera anywhere you go that is game changing um moving video between these is then obviously as a challenge which you now you know why we're thinking about that because we should be connecting devices anywhere to anywhere and i think this enables things that people aren't thinking about right and then you know so i think that the accessibility is what will change video um and tv stations so i keep thinking about this because you know a big part of our business is in the is in the broadcast video world and you know right now they are producing shows in totally different ways um and i keep thinking okay so what happens when they go back into their tv studio and get back to work and if they're anything like me you know they're going to go and get the coffee in the morning go back into their studio probably sit down for either side relief and go i'm glad i'm not in my garage anymore right and we'll go back to producing largely how they did before except some things will have changed and one of the things that will have changed is i think they will think well gosh we did an interview much like what we're doing we were not in the same room we do this this was enabled by ip technology now we've got to be able to bring callers that's something that's going to stick with tv the fact that they are they are working remotely and that is about accessibility um so i think accessibility is what's going to change video i think beyond that um you know the vast majority everything we're doing everything you're doing everything tv stations doing is driven by ads and i think that you know the the the this is becoming a this th that world is going to change and the world is going to change in that you know this idea that that in the middle of a show you do a hard cut to an ad right is got to be history i mean the first of all technology allows you to skip that but but realistically that's not that's not what consumers want um you know they don't want that that's why they're trying to skip it but you know but but it is what funds the vast majority of all production in fact the vast majority of our media and so that's going to be an area that changes and i think that it's going to be that's going to be the revolution of vr and ar you know the real revolution of those is going to be that they allow ads and the way we monetize media to become far more part of the show so that it it is what consumers want and what the media producers want and so i actually think that if i look 20 years out that's going to be one of the big revolutions and people are going to look back at tv how as it is today and go what the heck where did my show stop you know why did it stop and show me something else that and that that will be probably the next big change i think so i think accessibility and then i think the way this all gets funded has to change um or it won't work and and but it's got it's got to work so i think those are going to be the big things and i think you know it's funny people keep talking about how vr and air take off it's going to be advertising is the answer and not computer games or the other things they're looking at or social media or whatever it's going to be it's going to be in the media space that's going to be the big use of it um it's already the biggest use of it i mean that's the thing is if i got asked the other day where vrna i was really getting used and the answer is every sports game you watch is basically you know all the analysis everything now is already vr and ar that's the biggest use of it already today and that's going to grow and it's going to cover more areas so i think those are the things that i see as you know the big the big changing areas interesting that is a lot to think on a brief uh tangential example you mentioned the basically the experience is built with advertising and vr and ar and currently we are experiencing with the fortnight game they're doing in-game like concerts at the moment for specific musicians and everyone logs in and watches this concert and i'm already starting to feel like an old guy because to me that's just kind of like huh but translate that into vr and ar and suddenly it makes a lot more sense and they've been trying to do that with wrestling recently and things like that since the stands are empty and so i really i'm excited to see how that evolves assuming it doesn't turn into some tv show parody where like every time you look around it's like ding you want this do you want this because but but but you know democracy democracy kind of wins out in that when they start doing shows that are annoying to watch people don't watch them right and so there was this natural balance between you know taking it too far because people just won't watch it then right and so you know i think that that is the hope i have it you know that's the faith i have the tv won't become totally unwatchable because you know then people will not watch it and they will go and watch something somewhere else um and given that there are far more options for that today i think this is generally means that it is a good time for tv because it does mean that tv gets driven far more around what is worth watching right than just commercial needs or that you're the one with the fcc license um you know which is why tv is changing for the better probably right um awesome well solid answer i really appreciate you sitting down and talking with me today this has been wonderful i have a lot to dig into still regarding ndi and i still have a lot of videos coming up hint about some of the technology that we can do with it because it unlocks many doors beyond what one guy sitting in in office making videos can even do and i'm excited to dig into more of that are there any upcoming announcements or any updates recently you want to tease or it's all i know 4.5 just dropped i need to cover that soon that's got a lot of cool features in it i get you know 5.0 is is is going to be the big one for us i mean i i've i've i've said you know our goal is to connect anyone anywhere and that that's what we're looking to do because that that's the endgame here it shouldn't be you know i mean if we can connect the whole world of video that that's that's what'll make a difference and that's what we're trying to do awesome i'm looking forward to that because i have some ideas in my head about how that might happen so i'm very excited to see how that you shoot me an email i'd love to hear them all righty well thank you so much uh everybody can go check out links to various ndi related things in the video description and thanks so much i hope you have a great rest of your week there's only a couple days left but yeah well thank you so much it was great talking to you likewise this was this was a lot of fun i have not done very many interviews and this by far has been my favorite that i've ever done like it's gone the smoothness i had the most best time out of all of them talking about it thank you so much to the new tech viz rt and ndi team for making this happen super thanks to dr andrew krauss for coming on and chatting about this the dude is a legend and i hope to chat with him more and i hope to cover more ndi topics on the channel moving forward i've been i put up my video essay about it if you want to learn what ndi is what it's all about i'll have that linked in the video description i have a video coming on the new 4.5 update that just released with some cool stuff coming soon a cover of the android or ios apps rather still no android um as well as uh there whenever that 5.0 update comes out i am super stoked to check that out thank you so much for watching thank you so much for your support hope you enjoyed this i truly do i hope you learned a thing or two as well hit the like button subscribe for more tech education and stream guides i'm eposvox your stream professor i'll see you later\n"