**The Power of Scary Games: How to Attract a Large Audience**

When it comes to streaming games, many viewers are drawn to content that is both entertaining and terrifying. For some streamers, scary games have become a staple of their content, with large audiences tuning in to watch them play. According to our streamer, this type of content seems to resonate particularly well with viewers, who love watching others experience fear and anxiety while playing these types of games.

Our streamer has noticed that when they switch between different games, the size of their audience can vary significantly. For example, if they are streaming a scary game like Outlast, they will often get a large audience, whereas if they are streaming a more popular game like Dota or Starcraft, their viewership numbers may be lower. This suggests that there is something particular about scary games that draws in viewers and keeps them engaged.

On the other hand, when our streamer plays non-scary games like Minecraft or SimCity, their audience tends to be smaller. However, even these types of games can attract a large following if they are new or particularly popular at the time. For instance, during the beta launch of SimCity, our streamer's non-tournament stream attracted over 37,000 concurrent viewers, who were all eager to learn more about the game.

This highlights the importance of choosing the right content for your audience. While it may be tempting to try and appeal to a broad range of viewers by playing popular games, this often results in lower engagement and smaller audiences. Instead, our streamer has found that focusing on niche content can lead to a much more dedicated following.

**The Benefits of Unique Content**

One of the key takeaways from our streamer's experience is the importance of finding unique angles or perspectives when it comes to streaming games. By doing something that others are not doing, you can attract a larger audience and stand out from the crowd. In the case of scary games, this may involve playing particularly terrifying titles or creating engaging commentary around your gameplay.

For example, our streamer has noticed that they get more views when they play scary games than when they play other types of games. This suggests that there is something particular about these games that draws in viewers and keeps them engaged. Whether it's the fear factor, the challenge of playing a difficult game, or simply the entertainment value of watching someone else experience anxiety while playing, scary games seem to be particularly effective at attracting audiences.

**The Role of Personalities and Authenticity**

While having the right content is essential for success as a streamer, personality and authenticity are also crucial. Our streamer has found that when they are able to connect with their audience through conversation, humor, or other means, they attract a much larger following than when they are simply playing games.

For instance, our streamer often plays Hearthstone and Starcraft, which may not be as popular as some other games, but still attract a respectable number of viewers. However, when they play new titles that have gained popularity in the past few months, their audience tends to grow exponentially. This suggests that there is something about these newer games that resonates with viewers and makes them want to watch.

In addition, our streamer has noticed that when they are coding or doing other non-gaming-related activities on camera, their audience tends to be much smaller than when they are playing games. However, this can also be a strength, as it allows them to focus solely on the gameplay and avoid distractions.

**The Importance of Software and Tools**

Finally, our streamer has highlighted the importance of having access to the right software and tools for streaming games. While many viewers may not need or want these tools themselves, they are essential for creating high-quality content that engages audiences and sets our streamer apart from others.

For example, our streamer uses a specific software program called telestrator to highlight gameplay and provide additional context. This allows them to focus on the game itself while still providing valuable information and insights to their audience. While this software may not be available for all viewers to access, it is an essential part of our streamer's content strategy.

In conclusion, streaming games is a complex and multifaceted process that requires a combination of the right content, unique perspectives, and engaging personalities. By focusing on scary games, finding niche angles, and leveraging the right software and tools, our streamer has been able to attract a large and dedicated audience. Whether you are just starting out as a streamer or looking to expand your existing audience, these lessons can be applied to help take your content to the next level.

**The Future of Streaming**

As we look to the future of streaming, it's clear that there are many exciting developments on the horizon. One area that shows particular promise is the use of technology to enhance the viewer experience. For example, some games like League of Legends have implemented features that allow viewers to interact with the streamer in new and innovative ways.

Our streamer has been experimenting with various software programs and tools to improve their content and attract more views. While these technologies are still evolving, they offer a wealth of possibilities for streamers who want to stand out from the crowd and engage their audiences in new and exciting ways.

Ultimately, the future of streaming will depend on a combination of factors, including technological advancements, changing viewer preferences, and innovative content strategies. By staying ahead of the curve and adapting to these changes, our streamer is well-positioned for success in the ever-changing world of online gaming.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enand you're here for Rise of streaming um so I'm sure a lot of people have probably figured out that streaming has been coming up vastly larger thing in the last five years gone through very simply begins to just now you know sites are getting millions and millions of hits um just as a quick show of hands how many people like at least once a week watch some chemistry pretty much everybody so I've I've gathered a nice group of families here um I'll talk on the subject so we have hatsangi let's watch games how's it going uh Aaron Butler from insomnia games who's also Mr Pi side on Twitch Todd Harris from a CEO of high-res studios and they may try to stand and swipe yes and then John Payne uh pillow biscuits uh YouTube channel so um what are you guys thoughts on the just kind of the streaming scene so far as it is like right now as far as what just uh you know what do you feel like it's bringing to uh gaming in Jefferson the thing that I uh I like best streaming I think when I watch dreams most of the time it's more of like the Esports side of things so uh it's one of those things where you watch and you kind of realize that this could be a thing that could actually be on television because the broadcasts are actually super Correctional professional for the most part and I don't know something about the shab casting makes it really exciting to watch so that's mostly what I watch training for is uh is Esports stuff I know but yes yeah I'm kind of the same not supposed to Esports but I mean I really haven't watched that's why I haven't watched much of television at all like I probably have months once I kind of came across I started with YouTube and then kind of graduated into into twitch and there are certainly several broadcasters that I watch really from an entertainment standpoint usually it's daily like on my phone or kind of a window when I'm working at night so like before I started streaming so just the entertainment value that I'm getting out of the year comments it's like watching people play games like that I might have an interesting coming across games I might not be sure about so it's like a live action let's play um or just games that I like playing myself you know constantly it's like watching somebody else play might be you know rather entertaining at the same time random just yeah it's like a young noise so you found that streaming has replaced much of the other like media consumes too for me yeah so you know I live I can live like Kirsty through co-workers who talk about breaking bad or you know other other shows again they're really nice out there but uh you know I just haven't watched or just haven't had any interest in it yeah twitch has been as far as much enjoyment as I can you know as I do right now um well I'd say uh some of the Rises do the increased production values that were mentioned I mean tonight I believe is the biggest of League of Legends right so uh let's hope the riot has been doing is just insane with production values and I think it's helped the entire Esports scene because the quality level is starting to arrival uh what you find on broadcast if you're watching traditional Sports so so we give them a lot of credit and then as a developer it's kind of interesting because we actually think our games Get Better by streaming the game so we actually made a decision I guess it was two years ago we became tribes just kind of as a large we organize a Reddit versus 4chan online match which went about as well as you could expect right but uh we were kind of Blown Away you know we had uh Bart who's uh acted in the community in those scenes and he was doing shout passing and it was not very formal it was not a riot level uh World Series but I mean there were like 5 000 people that I think that were watching this thing and this was just organized you know a weekend so uh we were pretty that was kind of like a call perhaps wow this is this is like a thing you know so um it's so we made the decision there that we would start doing a lot of stuff on Twitch and be like the game Smiley like let's just all the time have someone in the studio my name's Mike maybe it'll be someone that people could watch uh because they're entertaining personality or maybe it'll be an alarm and we talked more about it but it's it's been a good thing it's definitely helped people discover the game people get tips on how to play the game better and just be entertaining right so so I think I think you'll probably see more and more developers uh kind of do that religious marketing well if streaming at the moment is in this interesting spot where it's growing exponentially and the facilities to watch it on keeping up with it so we are having a lot of problems particularly in Worlds breaks everything which is like never stream during worlds unless you absolutely adore the idea of people not being able to watch you because your stream will not be running all that well and we'll have issues there it's actually caused problems it's funny that you you mentioned it it's good for all of Esports like ask any lady sports event that's on during the world and see if they agree with you yeah mostly because their servers aren't going to work properly and they're going to have like problems we've run into it with WCS and things like that because everyone does October yeah yeah for some reason they do and the interesting thing about streaming right now is that the idea of it rivaling TV quality and saying hey you know this could be on TV something that was mentioned earlier it could but it shouldn't and it doesn't need to be because streaming has essentially made television Irrelevant in terms of the way that we consume our media we like to consume our media either on demand or in this uncut live way where we actually have direct interaction with the people that are creating the media that does not exist in TV and as a result television is losing it's relevant to this particular generation of audience particularly tech savvy and gaming in general has taken advantage of that in a way that we haven't actually seen before yeah I think one of the interesting thing is that games streaming is becoming such a thing that a lot of games are actually starting to build in ways to watch other people through the game clients served as another Testament to how fast it's growing and many of the the next gen councils are set up for streaming is Right On Demand so if you hit a button and it'll start streaming straight for you right yeah right they've been working on the accessibility side of it because anyone that used to stream before the Advent of things like xsplit and OBS and before Twitch TV even existed knew that it was a damn nightmare to actually pull that off you are running usually three different applications you're rolling flash media like encoder you were running most likely virtual audio cables and probably some kind of virtual camera which would be used to pull the gameplay through the software through the encoder and then kick it out there which needed a monster rig to work properly and if you wanted to do it properly you really needed a second rig you just do HDMI capture out through that and do the encoding that way but the accessibility standpoint has changed a lot in the last couple of years with xsplit with OBS if you want the kind of free experience there and it's become a lot easier through accessibility with believe games Mike does have a streaming client within it you can stream directly to Twitch using Smite and that's pretty easy to do admittedly what it has resulted in what I've noticed is that production values have kind of run into some standstill because what you can show directly from a game client or just by pulling gameplay is limited and there's not that many streamers to take it further than just game and webcam and some people don't even bother to frame the webcam which is the most horrendous looking thing it's just this ugly little box in the corner it's like some artists spent you're doing this UI and it looks absolutely beautiful and your ugly mug is all over it that's all right so a couple of you guys hit on this what do you think made streaming so interesting to a wide variety of books and I'm actually going to throw down the grand there which just snuck in hi sorry later we're not taken to the wrong panel well the question is what's that on purpose sorry once again uh so what is it that you think uh makes streaming so interesting why has it been growing so rapidly what do people find fascinating about it if they're willing to like the average stream viewer watches for like an hour and a half whereas like you look at something like YouTube and a four minute retention time that's generally considered really good well I think it's something that John already touched on which was just the the interaction like this this is something that we've discovered is a huge help we do a we do a fundraiser for child's play every year called desert bus and um uh we actually it's funny you mentioned TV because we we found ourselves having to describe it in television terms as a Telethon because otherwise people don't get what it is normal media doesn't understand what like uh gaming Marathon actually is it's the most annoying thing um but actually like just interacting with people like not not that you have to respond to every single thing as a streamer not that you have to respond to every single thing that goes by in the chat room but just like you shouldn't no a lot of it especially you have just your attack going crazy but just being able to interact with the person doing it you know and they're have like a downtime or a loading screen or something and they're like oh yeah so and so that's a good point or you know they're answering questions it's by its very nature usually more engaging than just watching something on YouTube and I engagement has to be the reason yeah I think it sort of took what made YouTube popular the ability to comment back in like converse with the people making the content and just took it to the next level where it's now you can talk instantaneously and also with other people in the chat room that are watching whatever it is I I was just going to add maybe this is just because of the size that we're at now but I also see that the real-time aspect of the chat is to make the community a little more clear and it just to make it maybe like I'm sorry why you're wrong I'm just saying for our YouTube channel versus not it's still Anonymous so that's it's still the internet so I'm not saying it's a land of flowers and you know I was gonna say is this some stream that I've missed here I think come on come on stream it's like a friendly button I think everyone's in on the same jokes though you know yeah so even when it's a nasty environment everyone's sort of on the same page well yeah everyone kind of knows the twitch guys bad so they're in on the Joker that's bad yeah so a lot of the the toxic nature of the chat is actually kind of like some reference yeah very very much exactly that that is wonderful I know that I've recommend it to everybody well some of them are you know you're kind of I don't want you guys that I watch illegal Pro like yeah he kind of did it didn't want to but because like the processity does and the coach out that he wants to have in the community wants to flourish you know it's like he was it was like a big group of circumstances well the fact that I do have those controls I mean you could put that a little you can slow it down how many people make itself is something you can toggle on or not yeah yeah if you have a twitch subscription system set up that way which is that could be pretty useful we went promise of only a year ago and honestly the feedback behind from non-subs is good because they can read the chat now instead of it being a mess and we get too many concurrent viewers to ever possibly survive doing non-sub chat it would be unreadable and that's what we're not even talking about toxicity it just moves too quickly even with slow mode on it yeah we do the same thing so as a developer once a week we're doing a patch of smite and we really we read the patch notes live we talk about the afraid you know those guys are on camera you know every every nerve and it is kind of interesting because you see faster than forums even faster than Reddit you know what the people think well they wouldn't play into things but still what the first impression is I don't know we do that every single week so we do the same thing for we'll keep it all chat for a while but it gets too fast or too bad we can turn on and stuff off and twitch is very much aware that that's a problem they have been implementing modes to get around that without having to basically use the nuclear option of sub only uh Slash online game beta is a very useful command and simply because it prevents you from typing the same line twice within a certain period of time and this applies to everyone in the chat so instead of having 300 cappers that's going on over the course of two seconds you can stop the KPM completely unless they they put a slight variant on it so people type that Kappa One and Kappa two and nonsense like that but it does reduce it a hell of a lot and it's interesting because it's twitched just like a giant couch and everyone's sitting on that couch watching the game but they probably hate each other and they hate the game but it can still be a really cool environment and it's the idea of watching a video becomes a social experience but we have to now deal with the problem of having a social experience with 20 000 people we don't know and how on Earth those group dynamics actually work yeah I think I probably wouldn't be one of the smaller speakers over here so like my channel you have to be an eight to nine ten people I think they must have had it once was 150 when her State APK came out it kind of freaked me out because I didn't have any mods yet about 37k at one point I think yeah that was a nightmare that was impossible to handle yeah I see all these streams and like you know they dread the day that I'm gonna have to because the interaction that I had with my folks while the regulars come into the chat is really it was really personal yeah yeah game's not shooting now I'm playing like a Minecraft mod a UHS too like people come in and ask me like silly questions or questions I've already been answered but I don't answer you know because it's totally possible to be the one-on-one like immediacy and like you know in the other chat so they have like 37 000 people or 20 000 people it's like I don't even I can mode that you still have a problem with relating to people because there are so many subscribers you can't necessarily remember them all and even when you're doing a q a it's like how do I keep up with this even if only a fraction of the subscribers turned up for the Q a it's still a massive number of questions coming at you yeah I've also found like when you're actually playing the game I like when I first started streaming I think I would average like 20 viewers a month to like 80 to 100 range but even in the 8100 range like if I'm trying to play a game and then also talk to people at the same time it is like way too much even with just that small number yeah I generally ignore the chat while I'm playing something and now look at it after the game since I play a lot of games that are shorter sessions so I'll stream Starcraft which will be maybe a 15 minute match or I'll stream Hearthstone same kind of thing it can wait until the end and then the discussion can happen after that and then you queue for another one but doing it in the middle of a game would be fairly insufferable I think videos like even try to like pull out random questions for you you had like 20 000 people you just pull out like a random question then like put it up there for you yeah so guys go pretty Innovative with that they've set up some bolts and things but they're not directly set of twitch doesn't directly support them it's just something that they've done themselves and some guys got pretty Savvy about it there is a stream of a Hearthstone called Trump who actually does run his chat as an overlay on the window yeah which is brave and it works pretty well for him for the most part because he understands the game so well that a lot of the times he's just basically shooting the chat down which is pretty funny the challenge suggests it was like no it's bad because of this and it's actually a nice dynamic because I think a lot of people watch that stream to learn and they will learn a lot by him telling them why they were dumb and how to fix that see kind of streaming going from here and Todd already kind of minted on traditionally the kind of setup was here's your game you know maybe you put a webcam on and it was just kind of playing but now like streaming has even started to be used for things like you know podcasts patch notes and stuff like that um what other ways do you think uh it will expand um I think the professionalism will increase I I watch a lot of DOTA Springs it's like a game I'm into a lot and there's this one in the studio called Beyond The Summit and they do a really great job I've actually visited the studio but they have like this kind of virtual tricaster setup and they can like bring up player bios and profiles of teams and stuff so they do an amazing job they're like one of sort of the examples of I think the next step where they really take it to a 100 professional broadcast level yeah and if you can do that it's great the main problem with doing that is not that it's difficult with something like xsplit it's fairly easy especially with the later beta versions of exploit now allow you to set up scenes without them showing on the stream which is a huge deal because for something like Esports tournaments which I run I've got to deal with things like scoreboards I've got to deal with things like player bios but I don't have a team I do it all myself but there's a limit to what you can do yourself if you have even two people you can do exponentially more with that and perhaps we will see instead of individual streaming we will see people kind of grouping together and getting this idea what if I did have a producer what if he was the one controlling xsplit on a different Monitor and was dealing with that stuff and what more could we do with that and the answer is like it's almost Limitless to what you could do with that we also what the kind of the TV crew set up where you've got people in the back like producing you know running all the machines you were purely the broadcaster yeah like you know somebody communicated like camera One camera two all right yeah absolutely and you can do most of that virtually as well like x-plate can switch between 12 scenes dynamically so that's basically your camera won't cover too but you don't necessarily want to be controlling that as the streamer which is why a lot of streamers will maybe he'll use two or three scenes for the most part it's like game scene full screen Cam and maybe here's my break screen and that's about as advanced as it goes but if you do get a producer in there then you can do so much more with that and perhaps we'll see a lot more of that even from regular streamers because they just want to do more with it and want to produce content that's more interesting more engaging yeah I think we're going to get a lot more at both ends up so as it becomes more accessible as the concept integrated as anyone can easily stream there's gonna be a lot of crap out there yeah but between the tools will hopefully evolve I mean but then you're right I mean what used to take a TV production truck going to a live event with the satellite and I mean now is you know a tricaster box yeah it's a there's a Manpower issue still but the hardware and software is affordable so I definitely need to see you increase production and it was just gonna say we think about it I mean like you said it's better than TV because our audience is not watching TV they're already on the internet anyway and they're one click away from downloading and playing or game so we think of it like TV and at this point we try to have interesting programming all the time and we try all sorts of flacky ideas it might be patch notes it might be we have a community art track where we're showing the best pieces that artists have submitted and we show are just working on things in progress some other more hits and some more flops but it's really I definitely liked what uh what you were saying about actually just streaming your game even in like in a beta process when you're trying to get feedback on the game in general I hope more developers actually started doing that because I think it's a great way for people that maybe don't even have access to the beta to get involved with something that they care about in the early stages yeah I mean it's been going even further than that lately you've seen those doing kickstarters doing basic development stuff on stream right you know it's like I'm trying to explain Concepts like well here I'm coding this part of the AI here's how it works I know you can't read this code to save your life but I'll try and explain it in layman's terms I love artists have been doing that kind of thing as well here's me designing a character and here's me doing the modeling and things like that and it's good to get that kind of stuff out there because it educates the audience on what the game development process actually involves and I feel like the more that you do that the less toxic the audience will end up being because they will understand the process better so they will not suddenly lash out in something they they don't really understand why it ended up being that way because they've seen it built and they understand the work that goes into it sounds like a little bit better not just that particular product too but I mean educating people can even spread the word like so many people think I do it like in real time and that's why it's like this it's like oh yeah I think from like a developer standpoint like you were talking about like it's like a real-time usability test in a way you know we do usability tests on games that we're probably making stuff that's all you know people in Office Professional you know but if you've got this this audience and you have like these people that want to play these games and like people like your feedback in real time and I can just take notes and like Chicago right and you can do private streams as well so if it's you know it's a little secret you still do it that way but it seems really big um a benefit for developers to take advantage like you can hook up metrics and stuff to that at the same time that's even better it's a massive crowdsource focus group essentially which is incredibly useful to be able to do so what kind of engage you guys enjoy streaming and why um I I guess I just enjoy streaming games that I like playing so mostly uh mobas or Arts whatever you want to call them and then uh first person cheers so I'll play uh CS go I play DotA plays my it's basically it yeah definitely in mind before I started streaming like a big feedback things play the games you want to play you know because people can pick up you're just playing the game for whatever reason you're not willing to thank you so I definitely take that to heart my business play right play games my music streaming man that's kind of right but that would be fun that's kind of what I do so I play a variety show basically I'm not playing Minecraft right now I play Battlefield 4 beta um played through Dishonored basically anything aside from like you know hardcore racing games like NASCAR and stuff or whatever sport yeah mainly competitive game and the other thing that I haven't done yet but a story through the game I mean I'm kind of envisioned I know I'm very late so I mean it's competitive games as well aside from the idea of the office training I do is also commentary so it would be Esports commentary without me playing I will be commentating on somebody else playing and I'll do my own personal strings which is generally Starcraft and Hearthstone they seem to go down pretty well and I avoid story driven single player games because I feel that versus say 400 people in a studio developing their next AAA title my commentary is not going to be worth jack and I do not want to be talking over a voice actor that was paid real money to come and actually use that talent to do that I don't want to talk over cut scenes that someone took months to animate and properly put together and there are very few examples I feel where that's valuable it can be used to get an interesting first impression for a lot of games so maybe you just need a little bit of you just need to build a real footage from a game is not the two minute marketing trailer you don't trust the reviews you want to see someone actually playing it that could be valuable as a consumer very much so and it could also be valuable to avoid terrible things like right to Hell retribution we just I just dream of that solely because I didn't want to do a real video of it because it would I would have to play more of it in order to get that impression but that was not only was that funny for a lot of people it was useful from a consumer standpoint because they saw just how Dreadful it was and my media honest reactions to how Dreadful it was so they hopefully didn't buy it I really hope they didn't oh yeah I prefer doing the things that you said to avoid I mean I I I like playing the the sort of the single player story driven games from a perspective of like the value that I'm hoping hopefully giving his entertainment like I'm coming at it from a sort of like a mystery science theater aspect of you know like we're it's a goofy playthrough especially what we're doing like when we do Let's Plays we're not doing let's plays to you know like let's let's see how the game turns out it's let's rip this thing apart um and we also stream magic together just because I love magic but not we don't make fun of that we just we just blame it we just do food yeah we just do bad draft strategies and terrible interpret it that's actually the way to get a lot of people to watch it we found the same thing with Hearthstone there's there's going to be those two extremes yeah there's the people that are pretty good at it and they get a lot of views and then they're the people that are astonishingly batted it and get more views and it comes down to we're decent and get middling views yeah you never want to be decent at anything trust me I will be astonishingly bad or terrifically amazing we're decent at the play but we're good at the cut yeah so that's that's where we come it works on pretty well and it's also why Competitive Gaming in general is a good bit of stream fodder because every game will turn out differently when you stream a single player game it's probably going to turn out the same way regardless especially if it happens to be a heavily scripted title every match of hearthstone is different every match is starcraft's different and people enjoy that fact and I enjoy it from a creative standpoint because I don't feel like I'm piggybacking on someone else's work to make ad Revenue you know and if I'm playing the competitive game at least the story of that game exists solely because I played that not because someone else wrote a cut scene had it accepted yeah yeah and to your point if you look at like analytics and stuff I tend to get more interaction in the chat when I'm playing poorly than when I'm playing yeah interaction I get to play a perfect game where I go 30-0 and Hearthstone with the best plays and I'll still have someone tear it apart and it's like you could have won two turns earlier by doing this this and this I am so sorry for myself so like a lot of the gaming streams seem to kind of come down to either the side of it I'm competitive and I'm probably better at this game than you and you're watching to learn something or I'm entertaining and we're all kind of in this and we're experiences together you feel like either one of those two is more valuable to streaming in general or either one is kind of driving the increasing numbers well I think it can be both and I think League of Legends streamers are probably the best example because you've got some high-end League engagement streams that are also highly entertaining but they're entertaining not only in their commentary yeah being understanding commentary that's pretty cool if you can be entertaining in commentary and your gameplay by doing something a little bit out of the ordinary maybe you do a troll strap in some game or whatever but you can play it well and you can also commentate well that's the magic combination and that's why people like say Civ HD were able to get 50k concurrent viewers and get up to those absurd Heights that single streamers generally only dream of as to what's driving it it depends on the game I know a lot of people watch League to learn league but then there is of course the audience that just watches to be entertained because they're familiar with league so the entertainment they want to consume is League related so it does come down on a game by game basis and maybe when I get in beta they're just watch because the one I consume that game it doesn't matter who's streaming it they just want to watch someone half decent play it and they just want to consume all the media related to it I think uh I think in general people tend to subscribe to personalities more because when you're looking at a a competitive game I think there are a lot of people I mean maybe not a ton of people but there are a lot of people streaming that are at least really good if not like on the highest level but people tend to want to subscribe I think to people that are also entertaining like yeah it's a nice office stock market is a prime example of that there's a lot of people that are very very good at stockcraft most of them happen to be in Korea and a lot of those guys do not get watched at all and it's very difficult as a top tier Korean player to break through unless you already have a brand new personality in and of itself you know just the very notion of speaking English on a Korean stream Skywalk into the viewership and you will see a lot of that there and there are so many good players that just don't get attention and then the highest rated players for the most part they're not the top top but they're definitely good enough where you would learn something as you know your average life and gamer but you will also be entertained by the Persona that's being put on there right so what do you guys see um streaming kind of going for the future I mean we're already hitting these just these massive esport events that are drawing in you know 30 million viewers I mean that's uh more so than many you know major Television Productions their premieres uh do you think it will just keep growing from here do you think we'll eventually hit some kind of cap as to how big they'll get lag that's right we're already hitting the cap that's the main problem zubu TV is difficult to actually get a partnership with assuming you'd even want to which leaves you with YouTube which also is difficult to get access to unless you have a partnership and then is also Limited in what you can do with it you can't mid-roll monetize say you know can't monetize a break like you could on Twitch where you just oh I've got a break for 30 seconds hitting out you know that's the way you generate your Revenue then can't do that in YouTube and the chat system is abysmal so there's definitely problems there and I think we're going to be limited just by how capable these services are twitch is the most capable right now but it still has problems so everyone's come across a twitch stream of a tournament they wanted to watch and not have it work properly and that's still a problem especially the Europeans who are still supposedly getting data centers that don't seem to be doing anything so we're running into a technology problem we can do the streams we have the tech to create the streams but do the providers who we are relying on to get our streams out actually have the tech to keep it running reliably yeah I mean it came out just I think a week or two ago that a venture capital for invested like 20 million dollars into twitch yesterday for the Next Generation like they know that this is going to be a lot more people streaming when the next gen consoles come out and so it's like here's all this money make it better making some money back yeah that's one of the things that the frustrated for me being like I'm not a twitch partner so I can basically have to rely on what I can put out there and you know I know if you're a partner you've got a you get access to uh different codecs so people if you stream up to NPP yeah you can go down to 720 or 480 or even three depending on how bad or good your connection is I don't have access to that so obviously I have stuck in like 720 and 60 frames but even then you know people will come in and say like this chop people have no drug frames it's like I have to apologize and let me leave and I've lost several like a lot of people who just can't watch like this I would say average stream but feel like an average stream to me yeah because they can't watch it because we don't I can't provide them with this feature which seems like it should be available to I mean I don't know the technicalities of it it's almost obviously speaking from like more like a wish like it'd be great to have more people to have than it really yeah hopefully yeah with all the Adventure whatever they get that they can provide the technology and so it isn't so stressful for twitch to do that I mean I don't know what it takes to do that but to have that option would be amazing if you want to get viewers but I can do the viewers because I can't honor them a quality stream yeah I mean you talk about transcoding on twitch's end essentially so they're having to transcode your source file into several other resolutions and then stream them simultaneously with them because otherwise you don't say 240p it would be three minutes behind the rest of them which would be disastrous and that that's pretty heavy to do but the weird thing is they don't allow non-partners to do it when the non-partners don't have that many viewers anyway so it wouldn't be that much load to actually allow them to do in the first place so I hope that they would enable that frankly but they have a lot of other issues and last week we were streaming the co-optional podcast and the first hour was a disaster because the ingested server that we were streaming to Simply wasn't working correctly it was warnings of that but we just had a bunch of drop frames for no reason and then we switched out to another ingest server and we didn't have a drop frame for two hours and it's still all those annoying little issues that you don't see coming and that you never are alerted to in any way that can derail your entire live show and consider how many viewers you lose if you're dropping frames hard during the first hour of your show yeah I think the uh and we see some of those issues as well that toys are what's the path I mean all the issues are the ones that cover growth and popularity on the platform right so our money is no more servers and no more so I think that yeah the future is very quiet and there's definitely going to be bumps also yeah there'll be a lot of books yeah are there any other uh so they were Miss mentioned earlier or some more traditional like chat options and now they're for resolution options or anything else that you would really like to see on in the next couple of months kind of come out to Twitch or exploit OBS technology or just better ways to interface if I explode is still crashing that would be nice here the main problem expo at the moment is the features that I need as someone that produces tournaments basically the preview options and the ability to change scenes without you guys seeing me doing it and you've probably all seen a stream where someone's trying to resize an image and it's going all over the place like even so-called professional podcasts are running at that point because they don't have the means to do it but the beta version that we're being offered that allows you to do that is also unstable so it's going to cause problems here and there I'm going to exploit for the most part is just the stability issue they seem to have nailed the performance down pretty well it used to be a massive performance now then you codecs are just much better they're much more efficient on the CPU and obviously some CPU technology continues to adapt it comes easier and easier to stream in high quality without nuking your frame rate so that's good but with ovs of course since it's a open source program you're relying on those guys getting the features in that you want and also creating a UI that isn't utterly hideous and difficult to use because that's usually the last priority of them to polish up the UI and make it a little bit more user friendly they could just combine the two because the thing I found about Ops is that it uses way less resources so not only is it easier to play and stream but it's a better it's better from a viewer's perspective because there's less lag a lot of times yeah you'll just get less frame drop on OBS in general it's very good for streaming certain games yeah but then on the expert side of things it's way more professional and if I set up all my scenes beforehand I can have hotkeys distinction between them but it uses way more resources and so from just streaming at home it's harder to watch if it's like a higher quality game like battle certainly yeah they're definitely getting there with it the the beta I'm using now like I can do 60fps on xsplit Via direct software capture which before that was not even going to be a thing OBS used to be the way that you got that done now you can do it with exploitsubator so they are catching all the performance side but you know if you're wanting to stream 60fps especially 1080P and you want to do it without having a monster rig then OBS is the best option for you what is I mean going down real quick what is uh everybody's current rate or how do you guys set up your streams uh I I set mine up with the exploit and I just kind of bite the bullet and I tend to play games that require less graphical and power at least right now so I use Xbox it's just the easiest most user friendly and so you don't have to do things like find your Twitch key or anything like that when you're trying to set up your streams just like using a password you're ready to go so that's what I use um but try to explain initially when I started streaming um where I wasn't sure about if I wasn't wanting to keep doing this like it invest in exposures over yes and and no problem here I was using OBS for quite a long time um until just recently last couple patches like like Mike and I think audio just cut off and I'm just gonna have to start start the stream and restart it again it sucks um so apparently it's gonna be fixing a future release so I've actually gone back to exploit and I actually had a three-month uh trial period the car is still from a live video racism so that actually still worked and so I'm basically using exploit right now um so far without many errors but the performance I think is definitely you still this person still get out of there so like that'll build a little single I guess I have a higher FPS but I can feel a little bit awareness like a little bit of resource yeah but uh but yeah I mean for me this is OBS comes back I definitely have no problem do all three depending on the stream or a majority of musics but some use OBS we did build into Smite using a software development kit from twitch the ability to do it right to the game and the idea was hey you don't want to mess and just hit a button you can say broadcast you want your webcam on or off and be able to do it and it works but the performance is not as good as either of those others you need a really good PC you're trying to make that better quit just trying to make it better yeah I've no luck with OBS we did one podcast using it and it shredded the bod so we basically Lost the show that way and we decided not to use it from that point explicit had performance problems for a while until they upgraded me to a beta version which I'm hoping to give you guys eventually because their new Game Source capture is way more efficient and you will get that 60 FPS performance and it will nuke your system as hard as the older expert did but I was using it back then for a while I considered Hardware Solutions just because back then getting 60 frames was difficult with xsplits and it was crunching my CPU really hard so I did pick up another media account I had decent success with it but for the most part OBS currently can't do the things that I needed to do to do all of the kind of shows that I want to streamline so when I stick with xsplit and it's still got a few problems anyone that listens to my shows every now and again will notice my mic starts to get a bit choppy and starts for about a minute and then it clears itself up they don't have no idea what's happening like the split media guys don't know what causes it but it's still there and it's been there for two years and another thing that I would say that just all of this software needs to work on is the idea of SEO support which is used basically on higher end audio interfaces which means what you can get is you can have Equalization you can have compression you can normalize you can Noise Gate things like that which all in all is going to make your audio sound better across the board and right now neither program probably supports that so if you do compression or anything on your audio interface expert will ignore it entirely which is really unfortunate and it also means that that just limits the audio quality you can get on a stream so that's why you've got a lot of streams and someone starts streaming for whatever reason and suddenly it blows your ears out because their mic is clipping really badly and that's something that that kind of thing would solve yeah to that point until it's really about how to make things better I think that would be radius of streaming technology had more options for just even just eq'ing stuff yes or uh built-in would be great I mean you want to bypass the new price you'll support them put some compression put some EQ normalization silence detection in the actual program itself since streaming PC games is not really a big deal for us we stream primarily from Max so um for Desert bus we use flash media live encoder cameras is free and it's it's a simple weird little app that actually I wish there was a better I I wish there was a better option because it doesn't think a little weird but it actually is it it it it puts in work darn it if you if you uh if you have a Mac campus it's definitely something you want to check out and then um yeah there's a tiny app that Apple made wants that pretends that it doesn't exist anymore we still download called QuickTime broadcaster uses like no system resources and it sends it just sends information to Twitch and it like if you try and install it on current systems it's like this is from an unknown developer are you sure you want to install them it's like an apple you're an idiots but it's a great it's a great little app and now for doing stuff with uh with um 360 and PS3 and console games that we we actually just have switched over recently too and all in one wirecast which is cheap but boy it gets it gets you there and it's uh windows got some nice stuff well I wanted to leave plenty of time before any questions you guys have so uh feel free to limit the mic question one now you'll awkward um so um I was uh I just was thinking the other day it's because there are people who actually have a make a living on broadcasting which I think is really cool in and of itself but especially because twitch is basically a monopoly twitch must be making so much money and I'm wondering like what you like because this is about streaming so I'm wondering how you guys feel about the monopolization of streaming and and also the idea that like while you guys are doing all this cool stuff there is this company that's actually taking a large amount of this money because they're just good at it well the problem with which monopolization started really when owned went down the toilet sounds of it that was for the best considering you know they weren't paying anybody which is not particularly a good way to do your business but I think there will be more competition when you as Google takes it more seriously you can YouTube live stream and it works fairly well the problem is it's not available to everybody and it doesn't have the feature set that streamers generally need twitch is far in advance in that respect and even when it was around which was still better you know that the reality of the situation is Twitch is the best we've got and it's got a lot of problems but it's still pretty good for the most part for twitch take a lot of money I I don't know necessarily if they do obviously they're going to take a decent cut of the CPM from ads the problem is Twitch currently doesn't have a great fill rate which means that every time I hit that add button maybe 25 30 of people will see it yeah and it won't run it out for anybody else and that for twitch is just fine with wasted because you go guys sitting there especially if they're in a country that doesn't have a lot of ads sold to them let's say you're in Bulgaria twitch probably doesn't have a sales team in Bulgaria and they certainly don't have a lot of ads running there so the bulgarians are sitting there watching streams for hours and hours consuming 1080p 60fps video and twitch is getting nothing from it you know you want to talk about the biggest kind of scam that twitch has got going on it's twitch turbo 8.99 a month is far more like it's all just magnitude more than you would ever earn them throughout you can watch streams all the time and you will make them a couple of sets but for twitch turbo you're paying them nine dollars a month now if you want to see where they're making a huge bank it's there it's not the streamers that are making money from that and they they're supposedly you you get the ad impression that doesn't matter and you talk about a two to three dollar CPM CPM by the way meaning every thousand you can do basic mathematics in your head and say just how much an impression matters there and the answer is it doesn't so I wouldn't say they're making huge Bank off the backup streamers and I think that it's it's a privilege to be able to stream someone else's work and make money from it and I'm very thankful to developers that are understanding about that because you could get aggressive with it but I don't necessarily think that they're making huge amounts because just little weird things here and there like turbo that just don't sit right with me um I wanted to see you guys talk today because I am not a big fan of streaming I know lots of friends who love it they want to watch it every day they can't get enough of it my question you guys is this with the Advent of the new console system coming out and the audience you've got now already on top of that you guys think are going to be the big content draws to bring people to watch be it on a console or a PC we're going to be having so much more of this happening within the next generation personality person doing it yeah I think that's what it comes down to is uh something I hit on earlier whereas people tend to watch And subscribe to personalities more so than just someone playing a game so yes there'll be a lot more people but there's also probably millions of people making gaming videos on YouTube and I think they're still sort of the top YouTube people that stand out because of the personalities that they have online so um you watch YouTube you know videos for years we'll have another personality I know that's what I've watched a lot of money recording so it's the same thing wise you're trying to be and twist Shadows destruction because the personality of what usually gets me and I I like the person I like it they're funny or whatever I know from a personal experience other than experience people that choose to follow me you know they usually will kind of comment on me as like a broadcaster random quality of the stream or like me as a person you know that's why they choose the phone so it's kind of like that's funny uh they've just got whatever their stick is then we have Smite bro which is where you watch when you want to learn what's the best players you want to watch tournaments but there may be other content production categories I think I think people even tend to subscribe to personalities as far as Esports because someone can be broadcasting the same event and I really like the way this guy has versus the way this guy casts that's definitely a thing there's no question about that you'll see wildly varying numbers for events counts by different people and that's a metric that's easily publicly viewable and I think everyone has their favorite Caster that they'll come and watch but I think with the Advent of consoles it's going to be it's amplifying the whole need for the personality because you're just basically Unleashed a horde of teenagers onto twitch and they could all stream with a popular book which means that it's going to be a bit of a battle to rise to the surface but when you do you'll do so either through having an interesting personality or through having a lot of skill and I anticipate there will be a massive Rush every time a new game comes out because everyone dreams of playing video games for a living to just immediately find Wagon on that game it's already pretty bad it's going to get exponentially worse so as a result you're going to see only the best account going to make their way through a walk potentially only the worst you know there are some people who are popular now that produce stuff that quite frankly I wish they wouldn't but people like him you know so they're going to have to make themselves stand out the subway especially as the technology gets easier like so it's for let's say you have a great personality but you don't have the technical know-how of how it should run all of these different softwares when it's just a button on your console and if that button can provide a quality experience uh I think you are going to see a big Rise um and it doesn't necessarily be any connected to any specific kind of content you're just going to get a much larger pool of people and as that sure 99 of them are probably going to be just really terrible and you know not worth your you're trying to watch but you know there's still going to be that one percent in there I'm actually curious to see how twitch is going to deal with sort of that giant influx of equal streaming Because by the way that's what I'm imagining too because it might I mean I'm sure they'll have more featured content for like people that are Partners like will get featured more often but actually sifting through all this stuff yeah but that's difficult enough even on in itself you look at the front page of twitch and it's like well who's up there well usually the guy that paid to pay that right I thought but yeah but I mean you know they feature a lot of content on there and you see what's on the front page like huh how many views does that must have a lot so the front page like oh so where did that come from then but content creation curation right now has really done a very basic level it's done a game by game basis the most popular games are listed up there you'll click that you'll find the most popular stream when you watch it that of course is a terrible way of discovering new talent but and that's going to get much much worse for twitch and whether they have an answer to that well Google doesn't so um that YouTube doesn't have an answer for that either when people break through on YouTube it certainly wasn't because Google helped them do it so that's going to be a massive challenge I'm not sure if it's even possible to fix a completely it is an interesting sound it's a popular become popular because they're popular rights yeah I look Reddit same with YouTube I've seen with twitch currently we we uh we have our partner with Rich and integrated we got some good front page placement but at this point honestly it doesn't affect your arms no it wouldn't yeah so um it is I mean it works in its own weird internet way I mean things that will be featured but people tune in and they think it's crowded and they they drop off but clearly you're going to go first where you see what type of one watching everyone's looking over there so um yeah that'll set our current model exactly it's the rich get richer in that respect yeah if you're already a popular streamer you will get a more popular kids children all right so I have two questions first is especially with like PlanetSide because it's battles Never End there's this real bad thing going around that stream's not broken I'm into your stream figure out where you are agility okay that's not cool and I wanted to know you guys specifically TV thought about that it's a gigantic point of the house but thankfully for partners it's fairly easy to fix in the sense that you can put a stream delay on which makes streaming very difficult I've encountered stream sniping in Starcraft and to some degree in Hearthstone but it's never really been too big a deal except when that person is also ghosting you you know the term sniping and ghosting are two different things sniping is where you see someone streaming you know they're about to queue for a game so you queue up at the same time and you're trying to get into the game which is kind of annoying but it's it's fine you know the most matchmaking systems settle fairly well to deal with that then you've got ghosting which is cheating yeah yeah so if I'm playing Hearthstone and someone can see my hand I'm probably totally and it was a civil a situation with stock market they see my base and my tech Choice then I'm screwed there as well and then I've got to make the decision do I put a delay on or do I keep the delay off because if I happen to lay on it makes interacting with a chat more difficult and there has to be a balance there usually a two-minute delay is more than enough to screw people over especially if it's sort of a soaked on they don't realize there's a delay so they're certainly reacting to what you did two minutes ago and they lose it's beautiful so it could be a big problem with uh with magic online as well yeah but the problem that we have with that is you know yeah if you put a string delay on you can't talk to your chat about decisions that you're making Mound and it's it's yeah there's no easy solution I mean I know that some of the bigger streamers um uh have started actually obscuring their opponent's names because what their what in their chat can do is actually launch their own magic online and then send a message to the streamers opponent and tell them what was in the Stricker's hand if a magic streamer is streaming like an actual like a ptq like a big event that actually it's not just a random graphic they will usually like obscure their hand and stuff so that the viewers on the extreme can see no more information than you know they're actually playing against yeah that's not it's not an option for a lot of games yeah it actually had to change some of them like specifically for magic um because people could go back and watch like oh that's the deck this guy is playing those are the cards he's playing um they've changed some of the rules so that like deck lists are open to everybody now updates because they could just go back and watch it and so even if they make it all available or they have to do that so yeah it would be redundant we made it wasn't it so it wasn't fine you might as well legitimize it yeah although the really Infamous one there's a reason why very few people ever stream Eve online they will come and find you and blow you up and steal all this stuff because I have money in it it does it's probably like here in the uh the graduation of cheaters and like a twitch makes me think of like it's not just like broadcasting and streaming that's elevating but it's also these issues are also going to be an issue and like everything's going to grow up like so yeah people will always find a way to screw over and like you know control or broadcast yeah I mean solutions to that also need to kind of graduate along with like the technology I think that the simplest solution is you just put a small delay on a stream it it was kind of a shame at first because I used to try to like advertise my stream by making my name like twitch.tv 70 like in the in-game but then it subtracted everyone on the opponent's team yeah oh let's go watch the stream right now and see what he's playing build a good idea yeah they have like a chain of servers uh screen they block them in the chat and stuff I think most of them just kind of give the point where like a thousand people watch them and it's gonna happen so like a lot of them doesn't care anymore the point where it is expected to happen and they do all they can to block it but it's like it's just gonna happen it's like we're just gonna roll the punching right yeah I think you're assuming you just have to expect that that sort of stuff that's gonna happen and not like if you want to if you want to play for serious like if you if you're in an event that you you know rankings or something you probably don't want to demonstrate it yeah makes similar stock craft that a lot of people don't a lot of Pros do not stream because they are essentially revealing strategies replays and career are very closely guarded Secrets uh into the fact where if it actually is a scandal for that to happen because you can do so much for the replay to learn your opponent's style so yeah you just don't stream it's it's just it's a work Hazard you know and if anything I think the bigger problem is denosing right now as opposed to extreme snack is annoying ddosing basically cuts off your method of making money if you have to be a professional streamer and you have to take a lot of things against that really and there are proportions to contain ER your garden is too easy to do you know you sound to some shitty site and you can just press the button and if you have that IP address so unfortunately Skype allows you to access that very easily so you don't don't Skype yeah you even you've even seen it becoming a problem in professional gaming where people will need us teams that they don't like and make sure they can't play in their matches which is another way that they make money so yeah we have tournaments every weekend and for a while it was a big problem and fortunately all the teams now are less savvy so we gotta run out and feel that it was a problem the question is aimed directly until yeah do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and save your volume you could get out here right now um we've talked a lot about what streaming is going to evolve into as it develops more but my question to you or it's really a two-part question but a question I have to you is how do you think the viewers will adapt as streaming becomes more and more mainstream and more and more well-known how do you think the keywords are going to develop both in the chat and just your general viewership well here's my game idea if anyone wants to build it I'm really surprised no one has integrated viewer involvement with the game more so think about a gladiator based game where the viewers are actually somehow influencing what's happening in the field or if I had the Hunger Games IP and I could send in like a care package why the hell is that mostly done yet so you guys can feel free to go on the building because I'm busy with smart right now but I actually think I mean well you look at selfie that's what's going on right I mean things like that things that were the game or The Meta around the game just kind of incorporating the new viewers with what's actually happening whether coming away or two-way besides that it's hard I think that's one cool yeah I mean it's the idea of investment from the viewer it's beyond just watching the game if you're involved in some side way with the game that's that's a powerful thing you know there's a reason why people sit watching salty about all day because even though they're earning no money whatsoever their virtual currency is valuable to them and this is whole culture surrounding it and it brings up its own in-jokes and everyone's kind of having a good time and I think it is an interesting model for involvement in real games to go forward yeah and the second part of the question is going off the viewership thing is there anything that especially in the chat that your viewers can do it would really annoy you that like things you just want them to style why would we tell you that well I think it goes obvious was vaccine gaming right so yeah that's the most the most common thing that I see is people just trying to tell you what to do or even I mean this it's funny because you appreciate them trying to help it at least from my perspective I you know appreciate the people trying to help at the same time as you're kind of they're cheapening the experience for the broadcaster as well as other people in China yeah yeah gaming isn't as much of a problem I mean the one that I don't like is the shout out spamming people constantly spamming like for Shadows say my name I like it I had to like make some people that were sort of there from the beginning mods like I mean like like the only thing you have to do is Ban people that are constantly Spanish but I don't like when I log off and I'm like hey go check out this other channel and then members go to that channel and then like spam it be like hey they told us to raid you and I'm like no one else I hope you go watch yeah we get a lot of that I mean it's on YouTube as well you you even like a video and then the top comment will be Max sent me here it's like please don't do that it's it's very very obnoxious I know most people mean well when they say Hey you know I want to give credit to the person that sent me to this video but then it turns into the memes and it's like hey we're part of some Army that came to invade you it's like to just shut up it's insufferable you know act like reasonable human beings that's um yeah that's that's pretty annoying but there's a little human beings on the internet yeah I know I'm asking too much the technology just isn't there yet very very good at watching car games and then there are people that are good at playing them and there are people who would be really great at playing If Only They had better access you know but they will a lot of them will say oh you know you should have done this play you should do them that play maybe they're not privy to your strategy Beyond what's simply in your hand and maybe you didn't want to play that card because you want to lose it you want to use it later and then they make arguments on that kind of subject it can be pretty annoying you know and since you have so many people it's impossible to take advice from the chat because most of it's wrong and it would be a bad idea we're running out of time so these will be the last three uh you probably already addressed this question but how do you break into streaming I've heard things about being in me putting yourself out there I stream it's it's one of what TV said it's really horrible it's really horribly put out there I have literally two scenes in OBS and well that's well most people have so yeah and I just I try to do awful lot of things but yeah the the biggest recommendation I've got is whenever I see the rise of a streamer it is 90 of the time on the back of a new ID so it will be a new game has come out lots of people is coming up lots of people wish to consume that game so they will look for someone that they like watching this is why I mean for instance for Hearthstone already had a fan base because he's a professional streamer to finish what he does but Trump didn't yeah not before Hearthstone and suddenly Trump's massive rise where he's basically the top three Hearthstone streamer is because he was good at the game he was calm he was teaching he was entertaining and people want to watch Hearthstone right now and as sad as it sounds the way that a lot of people break into streaming is they bandwagand on top of something that was looking popular or they predicted would become popular and they were good at doing it and then they gained the popularity that way and they can maintain it by streaming on the titles and just then people getting they got in to watch the game and now they're getting to watch them yeah I think on top of also finding the next big thing is sort of reaching out in every space that you can reach out in so like even if you're like oh Twitter's lame like get a Twitter and like post every time you're doing a stream and like even like posting your bots on YouTube especially if like you're doing Off the Wall stuff and it's entertaining like some people will find you on YouTube and even if you only get 50 views on the video that's 50 people that weren't on Twitch that saw it and be like oh maybe I should try to watch the stream on Twitch so it's just sort of reaching with twitch suddenly stopped automatically recording videos yeah you you come to us sorry I streamed Wednesday and then I found that out I was like yeah one thing I would say about your boards as well and I've said this to anyone whose Dreams YouTube videos and twitch streams are different kinds of content and the people that fail generally trying to do the same kind of content on both yeah so if you have a piece of content that you've made on stream try and turn it into something that's more YouTube friendly no one wants to watch you playing a game for three hours Fun Cards on there but edit the funny highlights reel and maybe that's a little bit easier and you can do it incredibly easily now you just you cut your highlights on Twitch export them to you think you don't even need to use a video editor you can use YouTube's own video editor to make that highlights for you try that you know because then you can drive traffic to and from and if you have an editing software just throw you know at the end just throw your Twitch address up there and then that kind of thing yeah I was just curious if there's any particular piece of content or games that you specifically see a higher volume of viewers with like for instance if I stream a game two to three people if I stream the loot them there 40 to 50 people so just curious um for me I've noticed I think people just like why should we be afraid if I stream scary games everyone just loves us I think so I've noticed that I get the most views when I do that I've tried to build up so DOTA sort of my the game that I really go to so I've sort of built an audience up by applying it repeatedly but yeah scary games people love watching these screens for me it's it's kind of random I mean it's again like stdk I had my heart I'll play Minecraft what I want to play these games first and for almost as I mentioned before you know the opinion team people for me so it's almost a place my only focus is I play the game I don't want to play or Outlast yeah let me watch I get the heart reminder in there you really are scared I'm surprised while people don't do that actually it was done in Esports store at once dream hack a couple of years ago and it was very effective yeah steal that idea in my experience the most I've ever had on a non-tournament stream was SimCity with 37 000 concurrents and that was in the beta when people just wanted to consume information about it on a general basis it'll be whatever's kind of got a bit of an edge at the time streaming if I stream Hearthstone now I'll get more than I would streaming Dota or Starcraft I'll still get respectable numbers on those other games but if it's new that's more interested in it if it's bad there's even more interest in it right to Hell retribution another you know a great example of an awful video game but a good stream because people heard about how terrible it was and they wanted to experience it and oh look there's a stream this is a perfect way to find someone ripping on this game for two hours and watching them suffer through it so well if I can add a second part of that question I also noticed there's that disparity between a I'm trying to be entertaining playing the game whereas when I'm coding the gluten there I'm barely saying anything unless I'm responding to chat yet I have a lot more people watching me if you notice that too any type of disparity there I think anytime you can find you were delivering something that's unique or appeals to a niche audience you're going to find more people than trying to appeal to the common masses because like if you're just appealing to everybody with something that everyone else is doing chances are there's somebody that's already doing it better and so like why would they go watch this channel when they can watch somebody that they know already that has been doing this for a while so like going from a unique angle becomes really important so anywhere you can find that like that's the real secret for just streaming and YouTube and just getting out on the internet it all really in my opinion cool thank you looking at the future of streaming as a viewer it's a streamer I was interested in the producer idea I was wondering if there's any new software Associated exploit beta and whatnot no two I'm sorry to draw Madness but do the Madden wrong words and like especially the League of Legends streaming C Lee sin jump across something jump back into something get somebody over and grow up and I had no idea what happened I wanted to have like things after the development value could actually draw through and show what happens you can't do it it's it's more difficult you often have to do some gnarly screen region stuff together to work it will be beautiful if that was built into the client and there are some there's some like custom maps for Starcraft that let you do it but it's not built into Starcraft itself and it's not built into xsplit but you're talking about telestrator stuff and it would be great if there was a plug-in for xsplit and in theory that should be entirely possible but as far as I know it doesn't currently exist yeah especially I mean lots of people just have like a WinCo tablet or just a tablet in general I mean there's a way that you could just connect your tablets here and they'll be you know it's I can think of some weird ways that involve taking a green screen Photoshop screen on your second Monitor and chroma keying it onto the top layer and having a drawing over that you can do that but at that point you've got to wonder what the hell am I doing with my life well if you do that as a Caster as well then I am impressed with you it's like all right guys well thank you very much for coming out um foreignand you're here for Rise of streaming um so I'm sure a lot of people have probably figured out that streaming has been coming up vastly larger thing in the last five years gone through very simply begins to just now you know sites are getting millions and millions of hits um just as a quick show of hands how many people like at least once a week watch some chemistry pretty much everybody so I've I've gathered a nice group of families here um I'll talk on the subject so we have hatsangi let's watch games how's it going uh Aaron Butler from insomnia games who's also Mr Pi side on Twitch Todd Harris from a CEO of high-res studios and they may try to stand and swipe yes and then John Payne uh pillow biscuits uh YouTube channel so um what are you guys thoughts on the just kind of the streaming scene so far as it is like right now as far as what just uh you know what do you feel like it's bringing to uh gaming in Jefferson the thing that I uh I like best streaming I think when I watch dreams most of the time it's more of like the Esports side of things so uh it's one of those things where you watch and you kind of realize that this could be a thing that could actually be on television because the broadcasts are actually super Correctional professional for the most part and I don't know something about the shab casting makes it really exciting to watch so that's mostly what I watch training for is uh is Esports stuff I know but yes yeah I'm kind of the same not supposed to Esports but I mean I really haven't watched that's why I haven't watched much of television at all like I probably have months once I kind of came across I started with YouTube and then kind of graduated into into twitch and there are certainly several broadcasters that I watch really from an entertainment standpoint usually it's daily like on my phone or kind of a window when I'm working at night so like before I started streaming so just the entertainment value that I'm getting out of the year comments it's like watching people play games like that I might have an interesting coming across games I might not be sure about so it's like a live action let's play um or just games that I like playing myself you know constantly it's like watching somebody else play might be you know rather entertaining at the same time random just yeah it's like a young noise so you found that streaming has replaced much of the other like media consumes too for me yeah so you know I live I can live like Kirsty through co-workers who talk about breaking bad or you know other other shows again they're really nice out there but uh you know I just haven't watched or just haven't had any interest in it yeah twitch has been as far as much enjoyment as I can you know as I do right now um well I'd say uh some of the Rises do the increased production values that were mentioned I mean tonight I believe is the biggest of League of Legends right so uh let's hope the riot has been doing is just insane with production values and I think it's helped the entire Esports scene because the quality level is starting to arrival uh what you find on broadcast if you're watching traditional Sports so so we give them a lot of credit and then as a developer it's kind of interesting because we actually think our games Get Better by streaming the game so we actually made a decision I guess it was two years ago we became tribes just kind of as a large we organize a Reddit versus 4chan online match which went about as well as you could expect right but uh we were kind of Blown Away you know we had uh Bart who's uh acted in the community in those scenes and he was doing shout passing and it was not very formal it was not a riot level uh World Series but I mean there were like 5 000 people that I think that were watching this thing and this was just organized you know a weekend so uh we were pretty that was kind of like a call perhaps wow this is this is like a thing you know so um it's so we made the decision there that we would start doing a lot of stuff on Twitch and be like the game Smiley like let's just all the time have someone in the studio my name's Mike maybe it'll be someone that people could watch uh because they're entertaining personality or maybe it'll be an alarm and we talked more about it but it's it's been a good thing it's definitely helped people discover the game people get tips on how to play the game better and just be entertaining right so so I think I think you'll probably see more and more developers uh kind of do that religious marketing well if streaming at the moment is in this interesting spot where it's growing exponentially and the facilities to watch it on keeping up with it so we are having a lot of problems particularly in Worlds breaks everything which is like never stream during worlds unless you absolutely adore the idea of people not being able to watch you because your stream will not be running all that well and we'll have issues there it's actually caused problems it's funny that you you mentioned it it's good for all of Esports like ask any lady sports event that's on during the world and see if they agree with you yeah mostly because their servers aren't going to work properly and they're going to have like problems we've run into it with WCS and things like that because everyone does October yeah yeah for some reason they do and the interesting thing about streaming right now is that the idea of it rivaling TV quality and saying hey you know this could be on TV something that was mentioned earlier it could but it shouldn't and it doesn't need to be because streaming has essentially made television Irrelevant in terms of the way that we consume our media we like to consume our media either on demand or in this uncut live way where we actually have direct interaction with the people that are creating the media that does not exist in TV and as a result television is losing it's relevant to this particular generation of audience particularly tech savvy and gaming in general has taken advantage of that in a way that we haven't actually seen before yeah I think one of the interesting thing is that games streaming is becoming such a thing that a lot of games are actually starting to build in ways to watch other people through the game clients served as another Testament to how fast it's growing and many of the the next gen councils are set up for streaming is Right On Demand so if you hit a button and it'll start streaming straight for you right yeah right they've been working on the accessibility side of it because anyone that used to stream before the Advent of things like xsplit and OBS and before Twitch TV even existed knew that it was a damn nightmare to actually pull that off you are running usually three different applications you're rolling flash media like encoder you were running most likely virtual audio cables and probably some kind of virtual camera which would be used to pull the gameplay through the software through the encoder and then kick it out there which needed a monster rig to work properly and if you wanted to do it properly you really needed a second rig you just do HDMI capture out through that and do the encoding that way but the accessibility standpoint has changed a lot in the last couple of years with xsplit with OBS if you want the kind of free experience there and it's become a lot easier through accessibility with believe games Mike does have a streaming client within it you can stream directly to Twitch using Smite and that's pretty easy to do admittedly what it has resulted in what I've noticed is that production values have kind of run into some standstill because what you can show directly from a game client or just by pulling gameplay is limited and there's not that many streamers to take it further than just game and webcam and some people don't even bother to frame the webcam which is the most horrendous looking thing it's just this ugly little box in the corner it's like some artists spent you're doing this UI and it looks absolutely beautiful and your ugly mug is all over it that's all right so a couple of you guys hit on this what do you think made streaming so interesting to a wide variety of books and I'm actually going to throw down the grand there which just snuck in hi sorry later we're not taken to the wrong panel well the question is what's that on purpose sorry once again uh so what is it that you think uh makes streaming so interesting why has it been growing so rapidly what do people find fascinating about it if they're willing to like the average stream viewer watches for like an hour and a half whereas like you look at something like YouTube and a four minute retention time that's generally considered really good well I think it's something that John already touched on which was just the the interaction like this this is something that we've discovered is a huge help we do a we do a fundraiser for child's play every year called desert bus and um uh we actually it's funny you mentioned TV because we we found ourselves having to describe it in television terms as a Telethon because otherwise people don't get what it is normal media doesn't understand what like uh gaming Marathon actually is it's the most annoying thing um but actually like just interacting with people like not not that you have to respond to every single thing as a streamer not that you have to respond to every single thing that goes by in the chat room but just like you shouldn't no a lot of it especially you have just your attack going crazy but just being able to interact with the person doing it you know and they're have like a downtime or a loading screen or something and they're like oh yeah so and so that's a good point or you know they're answering questions it's by its very nature usually more engaging than just watching something on YouTube and I engagement has to be the reason yeah I think it sort of took what made YouTube popular the ability to comment back in like converse with the people making the content and just took it to the next level where it's now you can talk instantaneously and also with other people in the chat room that are watching whatever it is I I was just going to add maybe this is just because of the size that we're at now but I also see that the real-time aspect of the chat is to make the community a little more clear and it just to make it maybe like I'm sorry why you're wrong I'm just saying for our YouTube channel versus not it's still Anonymous so that's it's still the internet so I'm not saying it's a land of flowers and you know I was gonna say is this some stream that I've missed here I think come on come on stream it's like a friendly button I think everyone's in on the same jokes though you know yeah so even when it's a nasty environment everyone's sort of on the same page well yeah everyone kind of knows the twitch guys bad so they're in on the Joker that's bad yeah so a lot of the the toxic nature of the chat is actually kind of like some reference yeah very very much exactly that that is wonderful I know that I've recommend it to everybody well some of them are you know you're kind of I don't want you guys that I watch illegal Pro like yeah he kind of did it didn't want to but because like the processity does and the coach out that he wants to have in the community wants to flourish you know it's like he was it was like a big group of circumstances well the fact that I do have those controls I mean you could put that a little you can slow it down how many people make itself is something you can toggle on or not yeah yeah if you have a twitch subscription system set up that way which is that could be pretty useful we went promise of only a year ago and honestly the feedback behind from non-subs is good because they can read the chat now instead of it being a mess and we get too many concurrent viewers to ever possibly survive doing non-sub chat it would be unreadable and that's what we're not even talking about toxicity it just moves too quickly even with slow mode on it yeah we do the same thing so as a developer once a week we're doing a patch of smite and we really we read the patch notes live we talk about the afraid you know those guys are on camera you know every every nerve and it is kind of interesting because you see faster than forums even faster than Reddit you know what the people think well they wouldn't play into things but still what the first impression is I don't know we do that every single week so we do the same thing for we'll keep it all chat for a while but it gets too fast or too bad we can turn on and stuff off and twitch is very much aware that that's a problem they have been implementing modes to get around that without having to basically use the nuclear option of sub only uh Slash online game beta is a very useful command and simply because it prevents you from typing the same line twice within a certain period of time and this applies to everyone in the chat so instead of having 300 cappers that's going on over the course of two seconds you can stop the KPM completely unless they they put a slight variant on it so people type that Kappa One and Kappa two and nonsense like that but it does reduce it a hell of a lot and it's interesting because it's twitched just like a giant couch and everyone's sitting on that couch watching the game but they probably hate each other and they hate the game but it can still be a really cool environment and it's the idea of watching a video becomes a social experience but we have to now deal with the problem of having a social experience with 20 000 people we don't know and how on Earth those group dynamics actually work yeah I think I probably wouldn't be one of the smaller speakers over here so like my channel you have to be an eight to nine ten people I think they must have had it once was 150 when her State APK came out it kind of freaked me out because I didn't have any mods yet about 37k at one point I think yeah that was a nightmare that was impossible to handle yeah I see all these streams and like you know they dread the day that I'm gonna have to because the interaction that I had with my folks while the regulars come into the chat is really it was really personal yeah yeah game's not shooting now I'm playing like a Minecraft mod a UHS too like people come in and ask me like silly questions or questions I've already been answered but I don't answer you know because it's totally possible to be the one-on-one like immediacy and like you know in the other chat so they have like 37 000 people or 20 000 people it's like I don't even I can mode that you still have a problem with relating to people because there are so many subscribers you can't necessarily remember them all and even when you're doing a q a it's like how do I keep up with this even if only a fraction of the subscribers turned up for the Q a it's still a massive number of questions coming at you yeah I've also found like when you're actually playing the game I like when I first started streaming I think I would average like 20 viewers a month to like 80 to 100 range but even in the 8100 range like if I'm trying to play a game and then also talk to people at the same time it is like way too much even with just that small number yeah I generally ignore the chat while I'm playing something and now look at it after the game since I play a lot of games that are shorter sessions so I'll stream Starcraft which will be maybe a 15 minute match or I'll stream Hearthstone same kind of thing it can wait until the end and then the discussion can happen after that and then you queue for another one but doing it in the middle of a game would be fairly insufferable I think videos like even try to like pull out random questions for you you had like 20 000 people you just pull out like a random question then like put it up there for you yeah so guys go pretty Innovative with that they've set up some bolts and things but they're not directly set of twitch doesn't directly support them it's just something that they've done themselves and some guys got pretty Savvy about it there is a stream of a Hearthstone called Trump who actually does run his chat as an overlay on the window yeah which is brave and it works pretty well for him for the most part because he understands the game so well that a lot of the times he's just basically shooting the chat down which is pretty funny the challenge suggests it was like no it's bad because of this and it's actually a nice dynamic because I think a lot of people watch that stream to learn and they will learn a lot by him telling them why they were dumb and how to fix that see kind of streaming going from here and Todd already kind of minted on traditionally the kind of setup was here's your game you know maybe you put a webcam on and it was just kind of playing but now like streaming has even started to be used for things like you know podcasts patch notes and stuff like that um what other ways do you think uh it will expand um I think the professionalism will increase I I watch a lot of DOTA Springs it's like a game I'm into a lot and there's this one in the studio called Beyond The Summit and they do a really great job I've actually visited the studio but they have like this kind of virtual tricaster setup and they can like bring up player bios and profiles of teams and stuff so they do an amazing job they're like one of sort of the examples of I think the next step where they really take it to a 100 professional broadcast level yeah and if you can do that it's great the main problem with doing that is not that it's difficult with something like xsplit it's fairly easy especially with the later beta versions of exploit now allow you to set up scenes without them showing on the stream which is a huge deal because for something like Esports tournaments which I run I've got to deal with things like scoreboards I've got to deal with things like player bios but I don't have a team I do it all myself but there's a limit to what you can do yourself if you have even two people you can do exponentially more with that and perhaps we will see instead of individual streaming we will see people kind of grouping together and getting this idea what if I did have a producer what if he was the one controlling xsplit on a different Monitor and was dealing with that stuff and what more could we do with that and the answer is like it's almost Limitless to what you could do with that we also what the kind of the TV crew set up where you've got people in the back like producing you know running all the machines you were purely the broadcaster yeah like you know somebody communicated like camera One camera two all right yeah absolutely and you can do most of that virtually as well like x-plate can switch between 12 scenes dynamically so that's basically your camera won't cover too but you don't necessarily want to be controlling that as the streamer which is why a lot of streamers will maybe he'll use two or three scenes for the most part it's like game scene full screen Cam and maybe here's my break screen and that's about as advanced as it goes but if you do get a producer in there then you can do so much more with that and perhaps we'll see a lot more of that even from regular streamers because they just want to do more with it and want to produce content that's more interesting more engaging yeah I think we're going to get a lot more at both ends up so as it becomes more accessible as the concept integrated as anyone can easily stream there's gonna be a lot of crap out there yeah but between the tools will hopefully evolve I mean but then you're right I mean what used to take a TV production truck going to a live event with the satellite and I mean now is you know a tricaster box yeah it's a there's a Manpower issue still but the hardware and software is affordable so I definitely need to see you increase production and it was just gonna say we think about it I mean like you said it's better than TV because our audience is not watching TV they're already on the internet anyway and they're one click away from downloading and playing or game so we think of it like TV and at this point we try to have interesting programming all the time and we try all sorts of flacky ideas it might be patch notes it might be we have a community art track where we're showing the best pieces that artists have submitted and we show are just working on things in progress some other more hits and some more flops but it's really I definitely liked what uh what you were saying about actually just streaming your game even in like in a beta process when you're trying to get feedback on the game in general I hope more developers actually started doing that because I think it's a great way for people that maybe don't even have access to the beta to get involved with something that they care about in the early stages yeah I mean it's been going even further than that lately you've seen those doing kickstarters doing basic development stuff on stream right you know it's like I'm trying to explain Concepts like well here I'm coding this part of the AI here's how it works I know you can't read this code to save your life but I'll try and explain it in layman's terms I love artists have been doing that kind of thing as well here's me designing a character and here's me doing the modeling and things like that and it's good to get that kind of stuff out there because it educates the audience on what the game development process actually involves and I feel like the more that you do that the less toxic the audience will end up being because they will understand the process better so they will not suddenly lash out in something they they don't really understand why it ended up being that way because they've seen it built and they understand the work that goes into it sounds like a little bit better not just that particular product too but I mean educating people can even spread the word like so many people think I do it like in real time and that's why it's like this it's like oh yeah I think from like a developer standpoint like you were talking about like it's like a real-time usability test in a way you know we do usability tests on games that we're probably making stuff that's all you know people in Office Professional you know but if you've got this this audience and you have like these people that want to play these games and like people like your feedback in real time and I can just take notes and like Chicago right and you can do private streams as well so if it's you know it's a little secret you still do it that way but it seems really big um a benefit for developers to take advantage like you can hook up metrics and stuff to that at the same time that's even better it's a massive crowdsource focus group essentially which is incredibly useful to be able to do so what kind of engage you guys enjoy streaming and why um I I guess I just enjoy streaming games that I like playing so mostly uh mobas or Arts whatever you want to call them and then uh first person cheers so I'll play uh CS go I play DotA plays my it's basically it yeah definitely in mind before I started streaming like a big feedback things play the games you want to play you know because people can pick up you're just playing the game for whatever reason you're not willing to thank you so I definitely take that to heart my business play right play games my music streaming man that's kind of right but that would be fun that's kind of what I do so I play a variety show basically I'm not playing Minecraft right now I play Battlefield 4 beta um played through Dishonored basically anything aside from like you know hardcore racing games like NASCAR and stuff or whatever sport yeah mainly competitive game and the other thing that I haven't done yet but a story through the game I mean I'm kind of envisioned I know I'm very late so I mean it's competitive games as well aside from the idea of the office training I do is also commentary so it would be Esports commentary without me playing I will be commentating on somebody else playing and I'll do my own personal strings which is generally Starcraft and Hearthstone they seem to go down pretty well and I avoid story driven single player games because I feel that versus say 400 people in a studio developing their next AAA title my commentary is not going to be worth jack and I do not want to be talking over a voice actor that was paid real money to come and actually use that talent to do that I don't want to talk over cut scenes that someone took months to animate and properly put together and there are very few examples I feel where that's valuable it can be used to get an interesting first impression for a lot of games so maybe you just need a little bit of you just need to build a real footage from a game is not the two minute marketing trailer you don't trust the reviews you want to see someone actually playing it that could be valuable as a consumer very much so and it could also be valuable to avoid terrible things like right to Hell retribution we just I just dream of that solely because I didn't want to do a real video of it because it would I would have to play more of it in order to get that impression but that was not only was that funny for a lot of people it was useful from a consumer standpoint because they saw just how Dreadful it was and my media honest reactions to how Dreadful it was so they hopefully didn't buy it I really hope they didn't oh yeah I prefer doing the things that you said to avoid I mean I I I like playing the the sort of the single player story driven games from a perspective of like the value that I'm hoping hopefully giving his entertainment like I'm coming at it from a sort of like a mystery science theater aspect of you know like we're it's a goofy playthrough especially what we're doing like when we do Let's Plays we're not doing let's plays to you know like let's let's see how the game turns out it's let's rip this thing apart um and we also stream magic together just because I love magic but not we don't make fun of that we just we just blame it we just do food yeah we just do bad draft strategies and terrible interpret it that's actually the way to get a lot of people to watch it we found the same thing with Hearthstone there's there's going to be those two extremes yeah there's the people that are pretty good at it and they get a lot of views and then they're the people that are astonishingly batted it and get more views and it comes down to we're decent and get middling views yeah you never want to be decent at anything trust me I will be astonishingly bad or terrifically amazing we're decent at the play but we're good at the cut yeah so that's that's where we come it works on pretty well and it's also why Competitive Gaming in general is a good bit of stream fodder because every game will turn out differently when you stream a single player game it's probably going to turn out the same way regardless especially if it happens to be a heavily scripted title every match of hearthstone is different every match is starcraft's different and people enjoy that fact and I enjoy it from a creative standpoint because I don't feel like I'm piggybacking on someone else's work to make ad Revenue you know and if I'm playing the competitive game at least the story of that game exists solely because I played that not because someone else wrote a cut scene had it accepted yeah yeah and to your point if you look at like analytics and stuff I tend to get more interaction in the chat when I'm playing poorly than when I'm playing yeah interaction I get to play a perfect game where I go 30-0 and Hearthstone with the best plays and I'll still have someone tear it apart and it's like you could have won two turns earlier by doing this this and this I am so sorry for myself so like a lot of the gaming streams seem to kind of come down to either the side of it I'm competitive and I'm probably better at this game than you and you're watching to learn something or I'm entertaining and we're all kind of in this and we're experiences together you feel like either one of those two is more valuable to streaming in general or either one is kind of driving the increasing numbers well I think it can be both and I think League of Legends streamers are probably the best example because you've got some high-end League engagement streams that are also highly entertaining but they're entertaining not only in their commentary yeah being understanding commentary that's pretty cool if you can be entertaining in commentary and your gameplay by doing something a little bit out of the ordinary maybe you do a troll strap in some game or whatever but you can play it well and you can also commentate well that's the magic combination and that's why people like say Civ HD were able to get 50k concurrent viewers and get up to those absurd Heights that single streamers generally only dream of as to what's driving it it depends on the game I know a lot of people watch League to learn league but then there is of course the audience that just watches to be entertained because they're familiar with league so the entertainment they want to consume is League related so it does come down on a game by game basis and maybe when I get in beta they're just watch because the one I consume that game it doesn't matter who's streaming it they just want to watch someone half decent play it and they just want to consume all the media related to it I think uh I think in general people tend to subscribe to personalities more because when you're looking at a a competitive game I think there are a lot of people I mean maybe not a ton of people but there are a lot of people streaming that are at least really good if not like on the highest level but people tend to want to subscribe I think to people that are also entertaining like yeah it's a nice office stock market is a prime example of that there's a lot of people that are very very good at stockcraft most of them happen to be in Korea and a lot of those guys do not get watched at all and it's very difficult as a top tier Korean player to break through unless you already have a brand new personality in and of itself you know just the very notion of speaking English on a Korean stream Skywalk into the viewership and you will see a lot of that there and there are so many good players that just don't get attention and then the highest rated players for the most part they're not the top top but they're definitely good enough where you would learn something as you know your average life and gamer but you will also be entertained by the Persona that's being put on there right so what do you guys see um streaming kind of going for the future I mean we're already hitting these just these massive esport events that are drawing in you know 30 million viewers I mean that's uh more so than many you know major Television Productions their premieres uh do you think it will just keep growing from here do you think we'll eventually hit some kind of cap as to how big they'll get lag that's right we're already hitting the cap that's the main problem zubu TV is difficult to actually get a partnership with assuming you'd even want to which leaves you with YouTube which also is difficult to get access to unless you have a partnership and then is also Limited in what you can do with it you can't mid-roll monetize say you know can't monetize a break like you could on Twitch where you just oh I've got a break for 30 seconds hitting out you know that's the way you generate your Revenue then can't do that in YouTube and the chat system is abysmal so there's definitely problems there and I think we're going to be limited just by how capable these services are twitch is the most capable right now but it still has problems so everyone's come across a twitch stream of a tournament they wanted to watch and not have it work properly and that's still a problem especially the Europeans who are still supposedly getting data centers that don't seem to be doing anything so we're running into a technology problem we can do the streams we have the tech to create the streams but do the providers who we are relying on to get our streams out actually have the tech to keep it running reliably yeah I mean it came out just I think a week or two ago that a venture capital for invested like 20 million dollars into twitch yesterday for the Next Generation like they know that this is going to be a lot more people streaming when the next gen consoles come out and so it's like here's all this money make it better making some money back yeah that's one of the things that the frustrated for me being like I'm not a twitch partner so I can basically have to rely on what I can put out there and you know I know if you're a partner you've got a you get access to uh different codecs so people if you stream up to NPP yeah you can go down to 720 or 480 or even three depending on how bad or good your connection is I don't have access to that so obviously I have stuck in like 720 and 60 frames but even then you know people will come in and say like this chop people have no drug frames it's like I have to apologize and let me leave and I've lost several like a lot of people who just can't watch like this I would say average stream but feel like an average stream to me yeah because they can't watch it because we don't I can't provide them with this feature which seems like it should be available to I mean I don't know the technicalities of it it's almost obviously speaking from like more like a wish like it'd be great to have more people to have than it really yeah hopefully yeah with all the Adventure whatever they get that they can provide the technology and so it isn't so stressful for twitch to do that I mean I don't know what it takes to do that but to have that option would be amazing if you want to get viewers but I can do the viewers because I can't honor them a quality stream yeah I mean you talk about transcoding on twitch's end essentially so they're having to transcode your source file into several other resolutions and then stream them simultaneously with them because otherwise you don't say 240p it would be three minutes behind the rest of them which would be disastrous and that that's pretty heavy to do but the weird thing is they don't allow non-partners to do it when the non-partners don't have that many viewers anyway so it wouldn't be that much load to actually allow them to do in the first place so I hope that they would enable that frankly but they have a lot of other issues and last week we were streaming the co-optional podcast and the first hour was a disaster because the ingested server that we were streaming to Simply wasn't working correctly it was warnings of that but we just had a bunch of drop frames for no reason and then we switched out to another ingest server and we didn't have a drop frame for two hours and it's still all those annoying little issues that you don't see coming and that you never are alerted to in any way that can derail your entire live show and consider how many viewers you lose if you're dropping frames hard during the first hour of your show yeah I think the uh and we see some of those issues as well that toys are what's the path I mean all the issues are the ones that cover growth and popularity on the platform right so our money is no more servers and no more so I think that yeah the future is very quiet and there's definitely going to be bumps also yeah there'll be a lot of books yeah are there any other uh so they were Miss mentioned earlier or some more traditional like chat options and now they're for resolution options or anything else that you would really like to see on in the next couple of months kind of come out to Twitch or exploit OBS technology or just better ways to interface if I explode is still crashing that would be nice here the main problem expo at the moment is the features that I need as someone that produces tournaments basically the preview options and the ability to change scenes without you guys seeing me doing it and you've probably all seen a stream where someone's trying to resize an image and it's going all over the place like even so-called professional podcasts are running at that point because they don't have the means to do it but the beta version that we're being offered that allows you to do that is also unstable so it's going to cause problems here and there I'm going to exploit for the most part is just the stability issue they seem to have nailed the performance down pretty well it used to be a massive performance now then you codecs are just much better they're much more efficient on the CPU and obviously some CPU technology continues to adapt it comes easier and easier to stream in high quality without nuking your frame rate so that's good but with ovs of course since it's a open source program you're relying on those guys getting the features in that you want and also creating a UI that isn't utterly hideous and difficult to use because that's usually the last priority of them to polish up the UI and make it a little bit more user friendly they could just combine the two because the thing I found about Ops is that it uses way less resources so not only is it easier to play and stream but it's a better it's better from a viewer's perspective because there's less lag a lot of times yeah you'll just get less frame drop on OBS in general it's very good for streaming certain games yeah but then on the expert side of things it's way more professional and if I set up all my scenes beforehand I can have hotkeys distinction between them but it uses way more resources and so from just streaming at home it's harder to watch if it's like a higher quality game like battle certainly yeah they're definitely getting there with it the the beta I'm using now like I can do 60fps on xsplit Via direct software capture which before that was not even going to be a thing OBS used to be the way that you got that done now you can do it with exploitsubator so they are catching all the performance side but you know if you're wanting to stream 60fps especially 1080P and you want to do it without having a monster rig then OBS is the best option for you what is I mean going down real quick what is uh everybody's current rate or how do you guys set up your streams uh I I set mine up with the exploit and I just kind of bite the bullet and I tend to play games that require less graphical and power at least right now so I use Xbox it's just the easiest most user friendly and so you don't have to do things like find your Twitch key or anything like that when you're trying to set up your streams just like using a password you're ready to go so that's what I use um but try to explain initially when I started streaming um where I wasn't sure about if I wasn't wanting to keep doing this like it invest in exposures over yes and and no problem here I was using OBS for quite a long time um until just recently last couple patches like like Mike and I think audio just cut off and I'm just gonna have to start start the stream and restart it again it sucks um so apparently it's gonna be fixing a future release so I've actually gone back to exploit and I actually had a three-month uh trial period the car is still from a live video racism so that actually still worked and so I'm basically using exploit right now um so far without many errors but the performance I think is definitely you still this person still get out of there so like that'll build a little single I guess I have a higher FPS but I can feel a little bit awareness like a little bit of resource yeah but uh but yeah I mean for me this is OBS comes back I definitely have no problem do all three depending on the stream or a majority of musics but some use OBS we did build into Smite using a software development kit from twitch the ability to do it right to the game and the idea was hey you don't want to mess and just hit a button you can say broadcast you want your webcam on or off and be able to do it and it works but the performance is not as good as either of those others you need a really good PC you're trying to make that better quit just trying to make it better yeah I've no luck with OBS we did one podcast using it and it shredded the bod so we basically Lost the show that way and we decided not to use it from that point explicit had performance problems for a while until they upgraded me to a beta version which I'm hoping to give you guys eventually because their new Game Source capture is way more efficient and you will get that 60 FPS performance and it will nuke your system as hard as the older expert did but I was using it back then for a while I considered Hardware Solutions just because back then getting 60 frames was difficult with xsplits and it was crunching my CPU really hard so I did pick up another media account I had decent success with it but for the most part OBS currently can't do the things that I needed to do to do all of the kind of shows that I want to streamline so when I stick with xsplit and it's still got a few problems anyone that listens to my shows every now and again will notice my mic starts to get a bit choppy and starts for about a minute and then it clears itself up they don't have no idea what's happening like the split media guys don't know what causes it but it's still there and it's been there for two years and another thing that I would say that just all of this software needs to work on is the idea of SEO support which is used basically on higher end audio interfaces which means what you can get is you can have Equalization you can have compression you can normalize you can Noise Gate things like that which all in all is going to make your audio sound better across the board and right now neither program probably supports that so if you do compression or anything on your audio interface expert will ignore it entirely which is really unfortunate and it also means that that just limits the audio quality you can get on a stream so that's why you've got a lot of streams and someone starts streaming for whatever reason and suddenly it blows your ears out because their mic is clipping really badly and that's something that that kind of thing would solve yeah to that point until it's really about how to make things better I think that would be radius of streaming technology had more options for just even just eq'ing stuff yes or uh built-in would be great I mean you want to bypass the new price you'll support them put some compression put some EQ normalization silence detection in the actual program itself since streaming PC games is not really a big deal for us we stream primarily from Max so um for Desert bus we use flash media live encoder cameras is free and it's it's a simple weird little app that actually I wish there was a better I I wish there was a better option because it doesn't think a little weird but it actually is it it it it puts in work darn it if you if you uh if you have a Mac campus it's definitely something you want to check out and then um yeah there's a tiny app that Apple made wants that pretends that it doesn't exist anymore we still download called QuickTime broadcaster uses like no system resources and it sends it just sends information to Twitch and it like if you try and install it on current systems it's like this is from an unknown developer are you sure you want to install them it's like an apple you're an idiots but it's a great it's a great little app and now for doing stuff with uh with um 360 and PS3 and console games that we we actually just have switched over recently too and all in one wirecast which is cheap but boy it gets it gets you there and it's uh windows got some nice stuff well I wanted to leave plenty of time before any questions you guys have so uh feel free to limit the mic question one now you'll awkward um so um I was uh I just was thinking the other day it's because there are people who actually have a make a living on broadcasting which I think is really cool in and of itself but especially because twitch is basically a monopoly twitch must be making so much money and I'm wondering like what you like because this is about streaming so I'm wondering how you guys feel about the monopolization of streaming and and also the idea that like while you guys are doing all this cool stuff there is this company that's actually taking a large amount of this money because they're just good at it well the problem with which monopolization started really when owned went down the toilet sounds of it that was for the best considering you know they weren't paying anybody which is not particularly a good way to do your business but I think there will be more competition when you as Google takes it more seriously you can YouTube live stream and it works fairly well the problem is it's not available to everybody and it doesn't have the feature set that streamers generally need twitch is far in advance in that respect and even when it was around which was still better you know that the reality of the situation is Twitch is the best we've got and it's got a lot of problems but it's still pretty good for the most part for twitch take a lot of money I I don't know necessarily if they do obviously they're going to take a decent cut of the CPM from ads the problem is Twitch currently doesn't have a great fill rate which means that every time I hit that add button maybe 25 30 of people will see it yeah and it won't run it out for anybody else and that for twitch is just fine with wasted because you go guys sitting there especially if they're in a country that doesn't have a lot of ads sold to them let's say you're in Bulgaria twitch probably doesn't have a sales team in Bulgaria and they certainly don't have a lot of ads running there so the bulgarians are sitting there watching streams for hours and hours consuming 1080p 60fps video and twitch is getting nothing from it you know you want to talk about the biggest kind of scam that twitch has got going on it's twitch turbo 8.99 a month is far more like it's all just magnitude more than you would ever earn them throughout you can watch streams all the time and you will make them a couple of sets but for twitch turbo you're paying them nine dollars a month now if you want to see where they're making a huge bank it's there it's not the streamers that are making money from that and they they're supposedly you you get the ad impression that doesn't matter and you talk about a two to three dollar CPM CPM by the way meaning every thousand you can do basic mathematics in your head and say just how much an impression matters there and the answer is it doesn't so I wouldn't say they're making huge Bank off the backup streamers and I think that it's it's a privilege to be able to stream someone else's work and make money from it and I'm very thankful to developers that are understanding about that because you could get aggressive with it but I don't necessarily think that they're making huge amounts because just little weird things here and there like turbo that just don't sit right with me um I wanted to see you guys talk today because I am not a big fan of streaming I know lots of friends who love it they want to watch it every day they can't get enough of it my question you guys is this with the Advent of the new console system coming out and the audience you've got now already on top of that you guys think are going to be the big content draws to bring people to watch be it on a console or a PC we're going to be having so much more of this happening within the next generation personality person doing it yeah I think that's what it comes down to is uh something I hit on earlier whereas people tend to watch And subscribe to personalities more so than just someone playing a game so yes there'll be a lot more people but there's also probably millions of people making gaming videos on YouTube and I think they're still sort of the top YouTube people that stand out because of the personalities that they have online so um you watch YouTube you know videos for years we'll have another personality I know that's what I've watched a lot of money recording so it's the same thing wise you're trying to be and twist Shadows destruction because the personality of what usually gets me and I I like the person I like it they're funny or whatever I know from a personal experience other than experience people that choose to follow me you know they usually will kind of comment on me as like a broadcaster random quality of the stream or like me as a person you know that's why they choose the phone so it's kind of like that's funny uh they've just got whatever their stick is then we have Smite bro which is where you watch when you want to learn what's the best players you want to watch tournaments but there may be other content production categories I think I think people even tend to subscribe to personalities as far as Esports because someone can be broadcasting the same event and I really like the way this guy has versus the way this guy casts that's definitely a thing there's no question about that you'll see wildly varying numbers for events counts by different people and that's a metric that's easily publicly viewable and I think everyone has their favorite Caster that they'll come and watch but I think with the Advent of consoles it's going to be it's amplifying the whole need for the personality because you're just basically Unleashed a horde of teenagers onto twitch and they could all stream with a popular book which means that it's going to be a bit of a battle to rise to the surface but when you do you'll do so either through having an interesting personality or through having a lot of skill and I anticipate there will be a massive Rush every time a new game comes out because everyone dreams of playing video games for a living to just immediately find Wagon on that game it's already pretty bad it's going to get exponentially worse so as a result you're going to see only the best account going to make their way through a walk potentially only the worst you know there are some people who are popular now that produce stuff that quite frankly I wish they wouldn't but people like him you know so they're going to have to make themselves stand out the subway especially as the technology gets easier like so it's for let's say you have a great personality but you don't have the technical know-how of how it should run all of these different softwares when it's just a button on your console and if that button can provide a quality experience uh I think you are going to see a big Rise um and it doesn't necessarily be any connected to any specific kind of content you're just going to get a much larger pool of people and as that sure 99 of them are probably going to be just really terrible and you know not worth your you're trying to watch but you know there's still going to be that one percent in there I'm actually curious to see how twitch is going to deal with sort of that giant influx of equal streaming Because by the way that's what I'm imagining too because it might I mean I'm sure they'll have more featured content for like people that are Partners like will get featured more often but actually sifting through all this stuff yeah but that's difficult enough even on in itself you look at the front page of twitch and it's like well who's up there well usually the guy that paid to pay that right I thought but yeah but I mean you know they feature a lot of content on there and you see what's on the front page like huh how many views does that must have a lot so the front page like oh so where did that come from then but content creation curation right now has really done a very basic level it's done a game by game basis the most popular games are listed up there you'll click that you'll find the most popular stream when you watch it that of course is a terrible way of discovering new talent but and that's going to get much much worse for twitch and whether they have an answer to that well Google doesn't so um that YouTube doesn't have an answer for that either when people break through on YouTube it certainly wasn't because Google helped them do it so that's going to be a massive challenge I'm not sure if it's even possible to fix a completely it is an interesting sound it's a popular become popular because they're popular rights yeah I look Reddit same with YouTube I've seen with twitch currently we we uh we have our partner with Rich and integrated we got some good front page placement but at this point honestly it doesn't affect your arms no it wouldn't yeah so um it is I mean it works in its own weird internet way I mean things that will be featured but people tune in and they think it's crowded and they they drop off but clearly you're going to go first where you see what type of one watching everyone's looking over there so um yeah that'll set our current model exactly it's the rich get richer in that respect yeah if you're already a popular streamer you will get a more popular kids children all right so I have two questions first is especially with like PlanetSide because it's battles Never End there's this real bad thing going around that stream's not broken I'm into your stream figure out where you are agility okay that's not cool and I wanted to know you guys specifically TV thought about that it's a gigantic point of the house but thankfully for partners it's fairly easy to fix in the sense that you can put a stream delay on which makes streaming very difficult I've encountered stream sniping in Starcraft and to some degree in Hearthstone but it's never really been too big a deal except when that person is also ghosting you you know the term sniping and ghosting are two different things sniping is where you see someone streaming you know they're about to queue for a game so you queue up at the same time and you're trying to get into the game which is kind of annoying but it's it's fine you know the most matchmaking systems settle fairly well to deal with that then you've got ghosting which is cheating yeah yeah so if I'm playing Hearthstone and someone can see my hand I'm probably totally and it was a civil a situation with stock market they see my base and my tech Choice then I'm screwed there as well and then I've got to make the decision do I put a delay on or do I keep the delay off because if I happen to lay on it makes interacting with a chat more difficult and there has to be a balance there usually a two-minute delay is more than enough to screw people over especially if it's sort of a soaked on they don't realize there's a delay so they're certainly reacting to what you did two minutes ago and they lose it's beautiful so it could be a big problem with uh with magic online as well yeah but the problem that we have with that is you know yeah if you put a string delay on you can't talk to your chat about decisions that you're making Mound and it's it's yeah there's no easy solution I mean I know that some of the bigger streamers um uh have started actually obscuring their opponent's names because what their what in their chat can do is actually launch their own magic online and then send a message to the streamers opponent and tell them what was in the Stricker's hand if a magic streamer is streaming like an actual like a ptq like a big event that actually it's not just a random graphic they will usually like obscure their hand and stuff so that the viewers on the extreme can see no more information than you know they're actually playing against yeah that's not it's not an option for a lot of games yeah it actually had to change some of them like specifically for magic um because people could go back and watch like oh that's the deck this guy is playing those are the cards he's playing um they've changed some of the rules so that like deck lists are open to everybody now updates because they could just go back and watch it and so even if they make it all available or they have to do that so yeah it would be redundant we made it wasn't it so it wasn't fine you might as well legitimize it yeah although the really Infamous one there's a reason why very few people ever stream Eve online they will come and find you and blow you up and steal all this stuff because I have money in it it does it's probably like here in the uh the graduation of cheaters and like a twitch makes me think of like it's not just like broadcasting and streaming that's elevating but it's also these issues are also going to be an issue and like everything's going to grow up like so yeah people will always find a way to screw over and like you know control or broadcast yeah I mean solutions to that also need to kind of graduate along with like the technology I think that the simplest solution is you just put a small delay on a stream it it was kind of a shame at first because I used to try to like advertise my stream by making my name like twitch.tv 70 like in the in-game but then it subtracted everyone on the opponent's team yeah oh let's go watch the stream right now and see what he's playing build a good idea yeah they have like a chain of servers uh screen they block them in the chat and stuff I think most of them just kind of give the point where like a thousand people watch them and it's gonna happen so like a lot of them doesn't care anymore the point where it is expected to happen and they do all they can to block it but it's like it's just gonna happen it's like we're just gonna roll the punching right yeah I think you're assuming you just have to expect that that sort of stuff that's gonna happen and not like if you want to if you want to play for serious like if you if you're in an event that you you know rankings or something you probably don't want to demonstrate it yeah makes similar stock craft that a lot of people don't a lot of Pros do not stream because they are essentially revealing strategies replays and career are very closely guarded Secrets uh into the fact where if it actually is a scandal for that to happen because you can do so much for the replay to learn your opponent's style so yeah you just don't stream it's it's just it's a work Hazard you know and if anything I think the bigger problem is denosing right now as opposed to extreme snack is annoying ddosing basically cuts off your method of making money if you have to be a professional streamer and you have to take a lot of things against that really and there are proportions to contain ER your garden is too easy to do you know you sound to some shitty site and you can just press the button and if you have that IP address so unfortunately Skype allows you to access that very easily so you don't don't Skype yeah you even you've even seen it becoming a problem in professional gaming where people will need us teams that they don't like and make sure they can't play in their matches which is another way that they make money so yeah we have tournaments every weekend and for a while it was a big problem and fortunately all the teams now are less savvy so we gotta run out and feel that it was a problem the question is aimed directly until yeah do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and save your volume you could get out here right now um we've talked a lot about what streaming is going to evolve into as it develops more but my question to you or it's really a two-part question but a question I have to you is how do you think the viewers will adapt as streaming becomes more and more mainstream and more and more well-known how do you think the keywords are going to develop both in the chat and just your general viewership well here's my game idea if anyone wants to build it I'm really surprised no one has integrated viewer involvement with the game more so think about a gladiator based game where the viewers are actually somehow influencing what's happening in the field or if I had the Hunger Games IP and I could send in like a care package why the hell is that mostly done yet so you guys can feel free to go on the building because I'm busy with smart right now but I actually think I mean well you look at selfie that's what's going on right I mean things like that things that were the game or The Meta around the game just kind of incorporating the new viewers with what's actually happening whether coming away or two-way besides that it's hard I think that's one cool yeah I mean it's the idea of investment from the viewer it's beyond just watching the game if you're involved in some side way with the game that's that's a powerful thing you know there's a reason why people sit watching salty about all day because even though they're earning no money whatsoever their virtual currency is valuable to them and this is whole culture surrounding it and it brings up its own in-jokes and everyone's kind of having a good time and I think it is an interesting model for involvement in real games to go forward yeah and the second part of the question is going off the viewership thing is there anything that especially in the chat that your viewers can do it would really annoy you that like things you just want them to style why would we tell you that well I think it goes obvious was vaccine gaming right so yeah that's the most the most common thing that I see is people just trying to tell you what to do or even I mean this it's funny because you appreciate them trying to help it at least from my perspective I you know appreciate the people trying to help at the same time as you're kind of they're cheapening the experience for the broadcaster as well as other people in China yeah yeah gaming isn't as much of a problem I mean the one that I don't like is the shout out spamming people constantly spamming like for Shadows say my name I like it I had to like make some people that were sort of there from the beginning mods like I mean like like the only thing you have to do is Ban people that are constantly Spanish but I don't like when I log off and I'm like hey go check out this other channel and then members go to that channel and then like spam it be like hey they told us to raid you and I'm like no one else I hope you go watch yeah we get a lot of that I mean it's on YouTube as well you you even like a video and then the top comment will be Max sent me here it's like please don't do that it's it's very very obnoxious I know most people mean well when they say Hey you know I want to give credit to the person that sent me to this video but then it turns into the memes and it's like hey we're part of some Army that came to invade you it's like to just shut up it's insufferable you know act like reasonable human beings that's um yeah that's that's pretty annoying but there's a little human beings on the internet yeah I know I'm asking too much the technology just isn't there yet very very good at watching car games and then there are people that are good at playing them and there are people who would be really great at playing If Only They had better access you know but they will a lot of them will say oh you know you should have done this play you should do them that play maybe they're not privy to your strategy Beyond what's simply in your hand and maybe you didn't want to play that card because you want to lose it you want to use it later and then they make arguments on that kind of subject it can be pretty annoying you know and since you have so many people it's impossible to take advice from the chat because most of it's wrong and it would be a bad idea we're running out of time so these will be the last three uh you probably already addressed this question but how do you break into streaming I've heard things about being in me putting yourself out there I stream it's it's one of what TV said it's really horrible it's really horribly put out there I have literally two scenes in OBS and well that's well most people have so yeah and I just I try to do awful lot of things but yeah the the biggest recommendation I've got is whenever I see the rise of a streamer it is 90 of the time on the back of a new ID so it will be a new game has come out lots of people is coming up lots of people wish to consume that game so they will look for someone that they like watching this is why I mean for instance for Hearthstone already had a fan base because he's a professional streamer to finish what he does but Trump didn't yeah not before Hearthstone and suddenly Trump's massive rise where he's basically the top three Hearthstone streamer is because he was good at the game he was calm he was teaching he was entertaining and people want to watch Hearthstone right now and as sad as it sounds the way that a lot of people break into streaming is they bandwagand on top of something that was looking popular or they predicted would become popular and they were good at doing it and then they gained the popularity that way and they can maintain it by streaming on the titles and just then people getting they got in to watch the game and now they're getting to watch them yeah I think on top of also finding the next big thing is sort of reaching out in every space that you can reach out in so like even if you're like oh Twitter's lame like get a Twitter and like post every time you're doing a stream and like even like posting your bots on YouTube especially if like you're doing Off the Wall stuff and it's entertaining like some people will find you on YouTube and even if you only get 50 views on the video that's 50 people that weren't on Twitch that saw it and be like oh maybe I should try to watch the stream on Twitch so it's just sort of reaching with twitch suddenly stopped automatically recording videos yeah you you come to us sorry I streamed Wednesday and then I found that out I was like yeah one thing I would say about your boards as well and I've said this to anyone whose Dreams YouTube videos and twitch streams are different kinds of content and the people that fail generally trying to do the same kind of content on both yeah so if you have a piece of content that you've made on stream try and turn it into something that's more YouTube friendly no one wants to watch you playing a game for three hours Fun Cards on there but edit the funny highlights reel and maybe that's a little bit easier and you can do it incredibly easily now you just you cut your highlights on Twitch export them to you think you don't even need to use a video editor you can use YouTube's own video editor to make that highlights for you try that you know because then you can drive traffic to and from and if you have an editing software just throw you know at the end just throw your Twitch address up there and then that kind of thing yeah I was just curious if there's any particular piece of content or games that you specifically see a higher volume of viewers with like for instance if I stream a game two to three people if I stream the loot them there 40 to 50 people so just curious um for me I've noticed I think people just like why should we be afraid if I stream scary games everyone just loves us I think so I've noticed that I get the most views when I do that I've tried to build up so DOTA sort of my the game that I really go to so I've sort of built an audience up by applying it repeatedly but yeah scary games people love watching these screens for me it's it's kind of random I mean it's again like stdk I had my heart I'll play Minecraft what I want to play these games first and for almost as I mentioned before you know the opinion team people for me so it's almost a place my only focus is I play the game I don't want to play or Outlast yeah let me watch I get the heart reminder in there you really are scared I'm surprised while people don't do that actually it was done in Esports store at once dream hack a couple of years ago and it was very effective yeah steal that idea in my experience the most I've ever had on a non-tournament stream was SimCity with 37 000 concurrents and that was in the beta when people just wanted to consume information about it on a general basis it'll be whatever's kind of got a bit of an edge at the time streaming if I stream Hearthstone now I'll get more than I would streaming Dota or Starcraft I'll still get respectable numbers on those other games but if it's new that's more interested in it if it's bad there's even more interest in it right to Hell retribution another you know a great example of an awful video game but a good stream because people heard about how terrible it was and they wanted to experience it and oh look there's a stream this is a perfect way to find someone ripping on this game for two hours and watching them suffer through it so well if I can add a second part of that question I also noticed there's that disparity between a I'm trying to be entertaining playing the game whereas when I'm coding the gluten there I'm barely saying anything unless I'm responding to chat yet I have a lot more people watching me if you notice that too any type of disparity there I think anytime you can find you were delivering something that's unique or appeals to a niche audience you're going to find more people than trying to appeal to the common masses because like if you're just appealing to everybody with something that everyone else is doing chances are there's somebody that's already doing it better and so like why would they go watch this channel when they can watch somebody that they know already that has been doing this for a while so like going from a unique angle becomes really important so anywhere you can find that like that's the real secret for just streaming and YouTube and just getting out on the internet it all really in my opinion cool thank you looking at the future of streaming as a viewer it's a streamer I was interested in the producer idea I was wondering if there's any new software Associated exploit beta and whatnot no two I'm sorry to draw Madness but do the Madden wrong words and like especially the League of Legends streaming C Lee sin jump across something jump back into something get somebody over and grow up and I had no idea what happened I wanted to have like things after the development value could actually draw through and show what happens you can't do it it's it's more difficult you often have to do some gnarly screen region stuff together to work it will be beautiful if that was built into the client and there are some there's some like custom maps for Starcraft that let you do it but it's not built into Starcraft itself and it's not built into xsplit but you're talking about telestrator stuff and it would be great if there was a plug-in for xsplit and in theory that should be entirely possible but as far as I know it doesn't currently exist yeah especially I mean lots of people just have like a WinCo tablet or just a tablet in general I mean there's a way that you could just connect your tablets here and they'll be you know it's I can think of some weird ways that involve taking a green screen Photoshop screen on your second Monitor and chroma keying it onto the top layer and having a drawing over that you can do that but at that point you've got to wonder what the hell am I doing with my life well if you do that as a Caster as well then I am impressed with you it's like all right guys well thank you very much for coming out um foreign\n"