**The Future of Vision and Reality: An Interview with [Interviewer's Name]**

In this special episode, we'll be discussing the latest advancements in virtual reality technology, specifically the Apple Vision Pro headset. Our guest, [Guest's Name], is an expert in the field and has been following the development of this innovative device.

**The Apple Vision Pro: A Breakthrough in Virtual Reality**

As we sat down to discuss the Apple Vision Pro, it was clear that this device had the potential to revolutionize the way we experience virtual reality. "I've heard rumors about the battery life," [Guest's Name] began, "but I'm not sure if they'll live up to the hype." The battery is rated at 3166 milliamp hours and has a 35.9 watt hour rating, which may seem small compared to other devices on the market. However, Apple's design goals were clear: to create a device that is both compact and durable.

The Vision Pro case is made of solid metal, giving it a weighty feel that belies its sleek design. While this may make it heavier than other VR headsets, [Guest's Name] noted that the metal acts as a heat sink, which could help to improve cooling performance. "I'm not sure if it's a good thing or bad," he mused. "But one thing is for sure: Apple wanted to go for style over substance in this regard."

**A Look into the Battery Life**

As we discussed the battery life of the Vision Pro, [Guest's Name] noted that the device comes with a 30-watt power brick, which should be enough to keep it charged while in use. "That's a good thing," he said. "Most users won't need to worry about running out of juice while wearing this headset." However, this also means that most battery packs on the market will easily keep the Vision Pro powered for an extended period.

**A Travel Case Fit for a King (or Queen)**

The travel case for the Vision Pro is a marvel of engineering, with multiple compartments and storage spaces designed to protect the device during transit. "I love it," [Guest's Name] said. "It's like a mini utility belt for your head." The case itself is made of durable materials, and the optical inserts are designed to be easy to clean.

**Optical Inserts: A New Era in Virtual Reality**

As we discussed the optical inserts, [Guest's Name] noted that they were designed to provide optimal visual clarity. "It's amazing," he said. "The level of detail is incredible." The inserts themselves are made of a lightweight material, allowing them to be easily stored away when not in use.

**A Journey to Nashville**

As we wrapped up our conversation, [Guest's Name] shared with us his plans for the future. He will be heading to Nashville next week, where he'll be attending a series of VR-related events and shows. "I'm excited," he said. "It'll be a great opportunity to talk to other experts in the field and get a better sense of what's coming down the pipe."

**The Future of Vision and Reality**

As we concluded our conversation with [Guest's Name], it was clear that the Apple Vision Pro represents just the beginning of a new era in virtual reality technology. With its innovative design, impressive battery life, and stylish travel case, this device has all the makings of a game-changer. We can't wait to see what the future holds for this revolutionary technology.

**Full Review Coming Soon**

We'll be publishing a full review of the Apple Vision Pro soon, complete with our expert analysis and hands-on testing. In the meantime, we want to hear from you: what do you think about the Vision Pro? Share your thoughts with us on social media using the hashtag #AppleVisionPro.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhello I'm William Gallagher and this is the Apple Insider podcast on a week in which Apple has made a lot of money uh joining me is where's hilard who well actually I was going to say w put is trying his best to give apple as much money as he can I think we all are really uh W were you astounded by Apple's success this week well I'm happy with my participation in the effort to ensure Apple doesn't go out of business for yet another quarter despite wall Street's uh dearest intentions you're a good man looking after the interests of Apple it's it's moving the little guy you know yes well I remember when they were the little guy how do analysts work this out oh excuse me how do analysts not work this out though every I mean I as we record this the earnings are out uh but the shares and stock will go down tomorrow and all this stuff they always go down no matter what Apple does and beforehand Apple's going to yeah so is there money in being wrong as an analyst do you think it's yeah it's either they they did too good and they're going to come crashing down any moment or they didn't do good enough and it's the sign of the end times there is no in between um but no it's it's not surprising I mean here we are uh let's see this this is the gosh what what month is it is it January so as this episode airs it's already February so this is their uh holiday quarter of course so uh Gang Busters as always lots of iPhone sales lots of things going on um not a lot in the way of Hardware releases we did have that October spooky event with some Max uh that helped to boost some of that Revenue but most of all you know as usual that Services revenue is uh very impactful and it's a just it's a fun roller coaster to ride uh I think the summ is Apple's going to survive to live another day isn't it yes I think so so okay in that case let's talk about other days looking to the future of Apple the thing I've been hearing all this week is that people have being handed incredibly big boxes and uh was I got to tell you this morning FedEx delivered the single biggest box I have ever had sent to me in this house but it wasn't a vision it was actually no it was shift happens the book about keyboards that you told me about months and months ago and I backed on Kickstarter uh they've actually got a video out of how carefully you have to unwrap the box so I haven't got to it yet whereas I understand when you get your big Vision Pro box um it's going to just perfect packaging and all are there loads of stickers or something is that why you're buying it you want stickers to put on the front of your Vision Pro I think that would make it so you couldn't actually use uh The Vision Pro right cuz the cameras yeah all right okay so have you open shift happens is it is it nice have you started looking through no no I mean actually it came while I was working so I couldn't and you normally with a box you could just just check that it's all there but seriously the video warns you about don't use knives that are too long don't use scissors that are too long as it's so well pack it's so tight you could scrape through to the boat so I'm going to surgically remove everything frankly the moment you and I stop talking and then I will gush about the book to you to everybody to people in the street and um that's not what we're here for I'm just excited by it you're equally excited because you've got the the big thing coming haven't you or rather you're going to the big thing aren't you have the reviews put you off do you have buyers remorse before you've even got it yet honestly it's exactly what I expected um I mean it's it's kind of funny now you can kind of just put a pin and in an Apple product review ahead of time and know what every publication's going to say uh The Verge is going to be very analytical honest but very critical um and that's exactly what happened this time I mean Nal Patel did a great job of describing the headset and its challenges but there's something about what how he describes things Apple does that just get under my skin I don't know what it is maybe he's just very he's just has the anti- Fanboy ammo and it just aimed directly at me but uh it but I didn't disagree with anything he said honestly other it just felt like he was very down on the product in a odd way versus like um MKBHD I Justine I I went through every one of these reviews and uh checked out like the unboxings and people describing the software I read through um John gruber's description of how a lot of these options work and I have a much better understanding now of what to expect on Friday um and a much better appreciation of it but I it didn't really turn me off from it I'm I'm more excited than ever to really dig into this thing since we're mentioning other people's re things I've got to say my favorite was Joanna Sterns On The Wall Street Journal CU she wore it for a day practically and uh there was a bit in there with cooking uh where she had a timer that she just floated over a a bowl of pasta and things you know you walk away you look back and there's a timer over the thing it's timing and I actually I would use that I would do that so uh that made me extra envious that I'm not actually going to get the chance I don't know that I would want to wear like seeing jna Stern it it was so funny cuz she said she worked for as long as she could for 24 hours anyway um wearing it to cook steam Rises off of these things and you're wearing a thing that it has an intake fan and an exhaust is it not getting Mo like I would worry about yeah I would worry about moisture I mean it is cooling it's actively cooling it there's an M2 Chip in it it's going to get hot hot you know I don't think it's I don't think it's like a fan in the traditional sense but um if you put your hand on the top where the vents are you're going to feel a little bit of heat so uh but yeah like there's holes in the base of the Vision Pro and steams rising and is it not obscuring the glass and steaming up I I just I don't understand how that particular portion works and you know in food steam there's food in it it's getting all stop stop this is getting horrible I just I don't know why you would want to wear it while you're like cooking over a steamy stove now you chopping vegetables and and other dry preparation sure but just like yeah over a steaming pot it just something about that felt off to me I didn't like her doing that I was like no nope not going to do that uh In fairness to her she did actually say that it wasn't recommended and uh there were things she didn't like about it she couldn't read uh food labels on you know condiments and things because looking through the lens the text on them was all pixelated and things so well wasn't a serious thing it was no more serious than her skiing uh briefly with it which was very brave of her I think U but actually wearing it in the snow period yeah yeah yeah but she did make me want to try it more than some people did but I will wait to hear what you say although actually that's a thought I was quite struck by how the every review I've seen has said very good things about Vision Pro and it's also had some you know genuine criticism of it but it feels like everybody's saying exactly what Mike worly said on Apple Insider back in August cuz he's the only person I know who got to use apple Vision Pro without it being under you know Apple's control and um Studio setups he used it like a real customer would and he was the same this is really good that isn't and looks interesting he was arguing that uh it wasn't quite finished then and it sounds like things are better now but similar so I'm over the place with this but there is one thing sorry after well I was just going to say it the like I said the reviews make a lot of sense but more important than ever I because okay pre- reviewing an iPhone you you're not going to be able to access every API call right because there's a new camera function or there's a new thing you can do with it uh but developers haven't had a chance to develop an app for that specific API call so uh you're you're testing the Apple watch and double tap doesn't work yet like that's all well and good but you're testing Vision Pro a week before it comes out when this is like put a time stamp as I'm speaking in this moment in time is the moment where it's at its absolute worst it's on its worst operating system version ever released and it's got the least amount of apps it will ever have and that becomes you know less true as time moves forward there's going to be there's more more apps every day uh they're releasing bug fixes Apple's going to come out with a a one2 more than likely here very soon for the consumer release if not a 1.1 which eh maybe not this soon but it's all getting better as time goes on of course so and and especially since Mike uh used it of course like that's that was deep in the um like pre-release era but even now the reviews that we're seeing are all on Hardware that doesn't really have an app ecosystem and on hard where that still has a lot of things to work out that we don't understand until it's really in everyone's hands that 1.1 release that 2.0 release in the fall that's what I'm most interested in what's happening once Apple understands what people are doing with this device um but again it's all still very interesting I I can see myself putting this thing on and opening a drafts window and Safari and just riding and doing my job from The Vision Pro how long it's hard to say the white thing still seems to be brought up repeatedly um but again the actual physics of it doesn't seem to make sense to me I like I understand that it's a heavy device and that maybe it does put pressure on your head and cheeks but I think Brian Tong was the one who said it but uh someone someone did say this that this is something you get used to uh especially your face is a very sensitive part of your body and it it's going to notice things more but as you wear a device like this like your neck and your head and your skin can't help but get used to it so goodness I don't know well I think this is definitely a device that we're going to have to observe over the long term and and as positive as initial reviews are in this very critical world that loves to find reason to dislike Apple I can't help but be excited about it I get that that something you said that just popped something into my head about the app ecosystem um so many developers uh saying they'll be available on day one and I realized all of these reviews are really there before day one day one is Friday the seconds that's when I imagine people will be through tell you what before you do anything else with your Apple Vision Pro check the App Store to see if Omni plan from the Omni group is with you just do that for me well the Omni guy I forget his name but uh Ken Cas Omni man himself um he yes he pointed out that uh they plan on not only ing A Vision Pro for everyone on the staff but they're going to support every single app on uh Vision Pro so maybe not at launch but that is definitely something they're working on um I can say that when we first started seeing um maybe a week within a few days after the uh pre-orders we saw articles uh we we covered it too that people were doing like app store checks and they could find maybe 100 150 native apps yeah um as of two days ago that was about 230 right so in a few in a few days it it's already increased by 100 native apps um Friday is everyone's Target of course there's a lot of apps in app review currently I'm seeing a lot of developers discussing this product and I would be willing to bet within the first week um we'll see hundreds more and in the first couple months we'll be well over I mean we're let's be honest how many how many apps you have installed on your phone right now William do you know offand uh quite a lot actually give me a second cover me I can I I seem to remember where you can check this if I go to settings General about uh I have 163 applications on my iPhone slightly more than I was expecting to be fair what about you I have 138 oh do I win I think so it depends on which way you're playing is this golf or um darts oh yeah okay so the funny thing is ask me that number two years ago and it would have been closer to 300 because there was a time that I downloaded everything I was trying everything I wanted every bespoke app that did one one function apps and then to have them call shortcuts and do specific things and in the last year or so I've noticed that Apple has taken over a lot of these functions within shortcuts within other apps and I've actually last year I made the call or maybe even two years ago now I can't remember the exact timeline but um in recent history I made the call to say you know what if apple has a function that's good enough I'm going to focus on using Apple's app or function versus a third-party call and I really haven't looked back that's why I honestly have so few apps out of those 138 like 30 of them are games and Apple has what 37 apps um installed by default or like 43 or something like that so realize that wow so I think all in all I might have like 60 third party apps and like eight of those are homekit related and it the breakdown is really funny like productivity Wise It's not that many so if you ever go down and just actually look at your app list look at what you have installed pay attention to like how many of each kind of app you have installed and it might surprise you that it's not as many as you might think I tend out to have four games and honestly that that's three more than I realized but I I it so I'm at 138 you're at 160 there's already more games uh or I'm sorry more apps in the vision OS app store um than we have installed on our phones and I understand that's not you know one to one comparison there's a lot of duplicates it's not every app that we use it's just keep in mind that we don't need a million apps we just need 10 good ones and not to defend the Vision Pro or anything just saying like I get the sentiment but at the same time I don't understand quite where it's coming from because the iPhone launched without an app store and I know it's not a direct comparison but I saw a wired article saying you know the Vision Pro is launching uh the iPhone the I I'm sorry apps made the iPhone and Vision Pro is launching without any and and I'm just sitting here laughing at like okay all right wired I I get the point you're trying to make but the Vision Pro already has more apps than the original iPhone did so I don't know what you're try what point you're trying to make exactly well actually I'm in a similar position I've been really it wasn't one place it was several and I thought either I am ludicrously wrong or they are uh let me try this on you there is a story going around several places that the reason there are no apps on the Vision Pro I mean that's the word no none nothing is because Apple's been nasty to Developers for years and now they're getting their Revenge um I would presume you just from two word two noises out of your mouth you don't agree with that this has been a what what's the word for a a rhetoric a just a stance that I have heard many times before it just seems to it seems to recur multiple times and okay I get it like we've discussed this at at nauseum Apple's policies and App Store and everything like you guys probably know my stance on a lot of this Apple I think deserves some kind of commission we can discuss whether or not 30% or 15% is correct we can discuss the EU stuff that they've announced that um it might bankrupt some companies like some of this is a little nasty some of it is malicious compliance I'm willing to see that but um i' also think that there is a line here that Apple does deserve some amount of money for operating the App Store and its ecosystem and but there no matter what Apple do does there will always be an epic games there always be a Tim Sweeny there always be a guy from Spotify whose Name Escapes me um those guys will always be upset unless they get their free lunch right um and there will complain all the way to the bank as they underpay artists and make frivolous inap purchases that um bankrupt families because they're they don't know how to use parental controls on iPhones um but don't care because they're billion Corporation who is in a spat with another billion doll Corporation right so it's healthy to take a little bit uh this with a little bit of salt I think that there is a sentiment out there that developers are very mad at Apple and the conversation has shifted to be very angry because of all the stories we've talked about in the last few weeks this isn't even about the EU I mean what was it two weeks ago uh that um Apple announced how it was going to handle um gosh what was it in the United States I've lost track of all the uh regulation changes that we've gone through in the last few weeks anyway there was anti- steering anti- steering that's the one yes so we we started with anti- steering right before the Apple Vision Pro pre-orders rolled right into the EU nonsense we're going to get into in a moment and now everyone's just really angry with apple developer relations but I say everyone what I really mean eight people in Macedon that I follow and that are very very vocal about it and when it's multiple people talking about it inside of your space it can feel like the whole world's talking about it but I'm being realistic here nobody's actually talking about this other than those handful of developers and many of them are many developers are actually okay with it and just not even speaking up about it because they don't care they're just living within the system they're willing to pay the price but what do you think about all this well I just to address the price thing I know developers who used to sell them software boxes so for them 30% to Apple is a absolute bargain and they're fine with it but that thing you just send them out it's very political isn't it um when you hear everybody in your space talking about one thing you think it's bigger and then you go somewhere else and it isn't uh I have a colleague in The Writers Guild here um I was I supposed to go to an event and I pulled out of it to cover an apple briefing and I told him what it was about and he said yay I've been hearing about that Apple's making it more expensive to subscribe to podcasts isn't it where did you get that from I think it was spotify's half her Spotify argument but apple is being damaged I mean this is a really smart guy he's not particularly interested in technology but he uses it he knows it really knows it really well and he also does you know contract negotiations at really high level stuff so he's well aware of nuances of things like this but that's the picture that it got out to him through all of this badmouthing if we zoom out just you know thousand yard view here of the situation um it's our responsibility as like Tech journalists whatever you want to call us uh that cover this information to put out this stuff in a way that's understandable and easy um to digest and not everyone follows that so a lot of people will immediately jump to whatever conclusion they want to and headline the story in most malicious way possible and and a lot of people just stop at the headline and or maybe they're just and it's not even that like they they could be scrolling Facebook or Twitter or their news aggregator they could be in Apple news and just scroll past the headline have no interest in really reading more about it but now it's a part of their information database their brain has absorbed that information so when it comes up in a topic later even if it's half remembered they're going to bring it up and be like hey didn't didn't Apple just start charging more money for podcast or something like and that's just how human brains works so that's why it's our responsibility to try to tell as much of the story as we can in a way that people can understand and no matter what you do there will always be people who get it wrong we published a story um covering the reviews for vision OS uh just saying hey all these reviews are available and I had I know this is it's an two two is a low number I understand but it's still two people willing to go out of their way out of their day to comment on the Twitter thread and say this is fake news there's no reviews out yet it's like all you have to do is click on the story and see like there's 17 reviews linked in here yes and and of course I didn't have to reply other people were like uh dude like Wall Street journals in there're like oh I didn't notice that the reviews were out you didn't bother even opening the story you just assumed the headline was a lie and commented on it so that I mean that's where we are as a as a as Humanity at the moment so this is what we're battling dayto day I must have told you about PBS um no sorry not PBS NPR National Public Radio in the states about I want to say 2013 they did an April Fool's Day story and the headline was uh why Americans don't read anymore and then the the first line was we have no idea they do it's fine whatever we're just trying to see who will comment on the headline and not the story and W up all of these comments for it was very funny for a couple of days at the time and then it got quite nasty but that's another story I mean many of our Twitter comments are from people who read the headline only and it's very obvious every time it happens and I don't know why they do it but it might just be a bot problem I don't know but the bot's just parsing the text and posting a reply but actually sorry I probably shouldn't say this but I've obviously started uh somebody commented on a video I made uh I did this YouTube channel 58 keys for writers to use apple gear and somebody put a comment on it and all I could say was well yes I just said that that was the whole point of the video exactly so you know I mean great that they engaged I suppose but still okay I tell you what let's keep on this and touch on some other things along the way because I cannot understand why people are confused about Apple's EU rules and I say that as someone who is confused by it how can it be so complicated um without trying to explain it all over again do you understand is there a defin appal Insider article that just gets it right did I write that article uh honestly I think you might have wrote that article but it's it's funny because I think Apple uh deliberately was obtuse with uh this implementation because um we'll get back to malicious compliance uh they're complying with the EU laws and let's be real I think technically speaking they are complying uh everything they did for the EU does make them qualify uh for not getting fined for violating the the digital markets act okay yeah but what they did to comply was fairly aggressive and that's where the term malicious compliance comes in we're doing it but we're doing it in the meanest nastiest way possible and okay I think that's somewhat an exaggeration but it isn't exactly the best system it's obviously built as everything else was no surprise anyone who's been paying any attention to Apple in the regulatory space knows that if they are forced to do something by a government they're going to do it in a way that complies with the law that makes everyone else angry look at what they did with the dating apps and the commissions there and look at at all these other things they're literally going to strip it down for parts and say okay it literally cost this much I was mad that I didn't get the percentage right last week on the show because I was actually not too far off I said Apple's just going to say do 22% because the rest is how much it costs for us thr in the app store they actually said 17% so I wasn't too far off um so anyway the rules are set up in a way to say you can run thirdparty marketplaces you can have apps exist outside of the App Store that can be downloaded directly from Safari but they still have to be approved by Apple they still have to go through commission and you still owe us money for participating on our platform um and technically all of that does comply so what I'm seeing and you can com on this more what I'm seeing is the biggest thing that people have an issue with and again this is only if you choose to exit Apple's current app store policy because it is a volunteer option this isn't everyone in the EU automatically it's if you choose to exit the current App Store um options um you are now having to pay 50 do you call it cents in Euros yes throws me half a euro is what I've been saying but yeah roughly 54 American cents is what cost so so half a Euro I guess uh per app install the first 100 I'm sorry the first million installs are waved um more or less but at million and one you're charged for the million and two right so it backlog oh now you see I thought it was everything after the million so a million and one is oh I'm sorry yeah cuz there was a calculator correct so everyone's putting in 2 million app installs and if you put in 2 million app installs you owe Apple $50,000 even if you charge $ z0 for your app but if you install it outside of Apple's current App Store system you owe Apple $50,000 and that is the current situation that we're dealing with but I would also argue just just to leave my point and I'll let I'll let you talk I would argue though if you're a developer making a free app that um doesn't charge any money why wouldn't you just use use app Apple system unless I guess it was an emulator or something but I I don't know I can see reasons why but also maybe just don't I I don't know yeah that makes sense I hadn't thought of emulators but I honestly I question whether an emulator is going to get a million and one downloads in a year I I would be really curious to know how many totally free apps uh have more than a million and the company doesn't monetize it in some other way um it's a dangerous game something it's a dangerous game to play Imagine launching an app okay so one I saw one example I saw I believe Steve stouton Smith brought it up on Mastadon and he said okay Mastadon is a publicly funded um uh system uh you can go to patreon and donate and they get like I don't know 50,000 like I I think it's sub that I think it's like $40 some thousand or $60 some thousand somewhere in there and um ations per year uh and if but clearly more than a million people use Mastadon if Mastadon used this system the company would go bankrupt because that's all the money that they get for development but now it's owed to Apple suddenly right but again that's if they use the system so I don't know one thing I originally thought was bad is uh if you do choose to leave the App Store um you can't go back I mean you could create another account and do something but you can't take an na out uh try it away from it and think this isn't working and try to go back um and I did think that was you know uh Apple kind of rudely shutting the gates on things but the more I think about it um what would they do if I moved an app from the App Store outside of the app and then sold loads of things and then moved back do they bill me for the ones that I sold while I was done and how to users upgrade I think they may not have had a choice on that one um there's nothing stopping you from just incorporating a new company and opening a new app store agreement I understand that's a big move but if you're well if you were an individual obviously that's kind of a process but if you're a company they don't care they'll they'll spin up seven um companies in a day just to get around certain regulations sure but um I don't know I I just I I've I've heard people say okay what do you do you you put a stoppage so that once you reach 999,000 999 downloads that it removes itself from the App Store and says sorry come again next year um I I think this is the thing that Apple's going to probably have to address or change uh just even in the most minor way but I think everything else uh it it works I the the the half yearo thing is odd I think it's an incentive to tell people to go away don't do it um and I think the EU is going to have a problem with it they're going to challenge appal on it's going to be a whole battle but I think this is what's ultimately going to change but I think everything else is going to stay the same yeah yeah you're saying legal battles every time I talk to you I'd love this CU my mind goes off in five different directions and there is one thing today I have got to ask you about because I know you're the man for it but I don't want to leave legal battles and forget about them because was it two weeks ago we got to announce that epic versus Apple was all over it was an American legal case that had actually ended and huh it's back again again uh because now epic is accusing Apple of um they're not using that phrase you did the uh what was phrase malicious um is compliance thank you they're not quite using that phrase but they are saying non-compliance apple is not doing the anti- steering thing like what it's supposed to um I think they've got a point actually but I can kind of live with it really um do you expl can I tell you what I know about or do you know this better than me uh no go ahead well the bits that that stuck out for me were um apple is supposed to allow developers to tell users that they can buy things directly from the developer which by implication means cheaper without the fee um and they have done that they are doing this but they have specified it can only be said to the user once and it can only be said at certain points and specifically not when they try to go buy an inapp purchase has to be practically on Startup and never again like like um privacy warnings and things like that and you see why they do it I see why epic thinks that's unfair but it's you know what you said it's the letter of the law they're doing what they absolutely have to and of course they are uh is that does Epic have a chance or are we going to have another three years of Epic versus Apple well so the problem is Apple is complying because the law wasn't specific enough um it didn't say apple must allow 10 instances of external linking in an app it just said it must allow an instance of external linking and apple literally said okay you can have one link to an external factor and so Apple complied and epic is upset so now they're going to go back to the LA and say but you you you didn't specify enough uh to say you can do whatever you want but because what epic really wants is a do whatever you want Clause so they can just do whatever they want like I I don't know why people think that there's some kind of hero in this situation they clearly just want to do everything possible to get around paying any money to anyone except themselves and that I think is silly uh epic is um definitely fighting the right battle for the wrong reasons uh Apple should allow external linking they should allow competition uh to an extent with within their own app store um say like Netflix like being a read app I guess um say Netflix wants to link in its store saying hey you can actually save 30% by going to an external uh to our website that there's should be no reason against that let or let users say you know what no I don't even though I could probably save a couple like $2 a month I'd really prefer just keep my payment information private to Apple and make that decision themselves maybe some consumers would actually make the decision I don't know that many people that would would but some people have the means to not care and they would just do that anyway and uh I don't know I just think apple is hurting itself with all these rules basically like you know if you go back in time a little bit to when you on the playground and uh someone wanted to um be the leader of a of their of your little club uh they would make all the rules but suddenly you realize all the rules just really benefited them and you would get nothing out of it right and uh and you would ask them so why why is it this way it's because I said so right there's not really any reason or justification it's just we built We Built This Club it is my club and I therefore what I say goes and that's why outside Regulators have to come in and say you know what maybe you're being a little unfair let's take control here so I don't like that governments are dictating what Apple needs to do but I also don't like that Apple's put itself in a situation where it needs an external resource telling them that they're wrong when they obviously clearly believe they're very right so it's a very interesting situation yeah I mean you've described yourself as an apple Fanboy and I quite like that you did that because people have it it is Accused people have accused me of being that and I felt you see I'm more critical than W I must be all right I am really down on certain things Apple does uh as a business all the union stuff he does for example I think that's loathsome but um I like what they do otherwise and it all of this just stuff makes me think that they're really good at developing legal teams as well as devices and things so yeah it's not the Apple we used to know tell you what let me ask you the thing before it goes out of my head because I wrote a new story today as we record this and I understood the new story but I knew you'd know more about it Unity has released this uh ability to develop uh Vision OS apps through its software um now they've been testing that for months we've covered it on Apple Insider when it first came out now it's for everybody on um whatever they their higher tier paid things are called Unity Pro I think is the bottom one that they do I I can't quite grasp whether this is a good or a bad thing because it seems to me that um if I develop for Unity for vision OS I could just develop a vision OS straight away and if I don't then I am dependent on unity and apple is dependent on Unity is Unity a useful tool or an abstraction layer do you think um I mean Unity I think it's the only option right I um Game Dev kits have become such a weirdly controversial thing because they exist to help you build these systems but now they're pulling basically what Apple does with their App Store and their apis they're they're charging a lot of money to um allow developers to use their systems and unity I think is one of the better ones out there is my understanding maybe I'm maybe I'm misremembering I I can't remember um which one does epic games own epic owns its own it is Unity I think is it epic games okay so maybe maybe I'm misremembering because I I do remember there being this huge spat over um like basically the this Dev tool owning everything in perpetuity if you build it on its engine more or less um I don't know if that was Unity or not my my brain's escaping me on this one I didn't do the research but uh I don't know what do you think like with it is this going to help uh push more apps to Vision Pro it just it reminds me as a non-gamer I was vaguely aware of unity but it sounds to me like um uh what's that thing that uh obstruction layer that people use for developing Mac apps that aren't really Mac apps I want to say Cascade or caval Gade or something beginning with the ca I'm really into this look at the level of detail we've got here this uh this nul thing I remember when one password announced they were going to it uh I was deeply disappointed that they were abandoning the uh Native uh Mac version we're talking about the Chrome the Chrome thing um I don't think it's definitely we're narrowing this down begins with a c uh come back next week for the rest of the word um yeah it felt like I was suddenly worried let me be clear about one password I think they actually in the end they did a much better job than I was expecting and I use it and it looks good and I wouldn't know it wasn't there but over the years I've seen situations where uh a middle ground platform like this has become so important that it's killed off the computers underneath it so something that was to allow you to work with right one out for Windows and Mac for example uh never updated to have all the the good new Mac stuff it only ever stayed as the kind of um uh least common denominator for it so every app through it was actually not a great Windows app not a great Mac app and I worried that Unity would be doing the same for Vision Pro possibly groundlessly but that's the first thing I thought when I read all this oh no no no no no um it's not that uh I great we're going to get a million emails um yeah so what you're describing is the I I I'm pretty sure it's the Chrome thing um it's basically where it's uh a web wrapper around or it's an app wrapper around a web app basically that that launches into this like ugly web view that's clearly not built for the device you're on Unity is uh it's it's a game development engine so um a lot of apps and a lot of games are built with unity and uh because of that a lot of them look kind of similar um but at the same time uh it does open the door to a lot of things I think we already saw uh some games uh use Unity to develop on Vision Pro it's just now it's a public tool rather than being like in a private beta or whatever it is uh that was going on on their end so I do remember Apple trying to block epic games from um allowing Unity on um iOS when they were fighting them over fortnite and thankfully that got bled cuz that would have disrupted a lot of game development like like people would have had to have shifted to a completely new um Dev tool and it just would not was not going to happen but um no I I I don't I I think I think this is actually a good thing like uh Unity being available for Vision Pro development is excellent it it just means uh more opportunity more options for developers uh as far as building games and platforms for the new device well in that case um I will try to forget how little I know about this and just be generally relieved which is you know it's kind of good way to be really how about we move on to something that I know for a fact except I don't um anyone listening to this I Insider podcast on an iPhone if you would please look at the show page and scroll down to the bottom you may or you may not see a new transcripts section this is not one we have done it's Apple has added transcripts in iOS 17.4 and they automatically generated and the ones I've seen are really well done but not every podcast has it uh podcast uh producers have to agree it's a new part of the legal firm uh terms and conditions for it and APPL are agreed instantly uh for it of course we did we want this for people but it seems to be also rolling out slowly so if you've got transcripts you could scroll through and see how many times we look for words beginning with c um or not it's always so 1.4 so you have to be in the beta do you know that would make sense isn't it and I started this saying things I know about and uh things I know about and have forgotten um how about we make this one of those uh features that nobody's ever heard of that you know but when 17.4 is out how does that sound reasonable come back to this right yeah U but also Kate 17.4 beta there are other things there are iPad Pro and Apple pencil capabilities now this bit I don't know about and I believe you do cuz I I always think of you as the iPad guy for it um was there enough in the beta to tell us what these features capabilities are basically this is the usual kind of code leak um Apple forgot to remove something or uh what some string it's literally like a snippet someone's gone through and read line for line inside of the code and found this snippet that mentions uh like and mostly gibberish with equal signs and and dashes and then in the middle of it it says uh like landscape oriented face ID camera right in the middle of this long streaking of random text um so this is that kind of leak uh basically someone was able to dig in uh and uh so one of the people that checkout code for 9 to5 Mac they covered this um they were able to find references to a iPad Pro Pro with a landscape face ID camera which we don't have yet that's only on the iPad 10th Generation Um and then they also found references to an apple pencil 3 that would be included in fine my and that string was probably something along the lines of fine my you know include equal you know apple pencil Das you know third generation or whatever so or just apple pencil because it doesn't have to say the number at the end you just know oh whatever the new Apple pencil's going to be is going to have this F my functionality cuz n no no pencil works with fine by currently oh that's true of course it doesn't I wouldn't that beesting actually quite fancy a pencil that does cuz I keep losing my pencil not that I use it that often I'm sorry I'm so temp I would be curious to know what Apple's process is for putting out beers because if you start removing things you don't want people to know about yet and then you put them back I mean is there a chance that would actually cause more problems maybe they just think let let it be in there we'll we'll put in dash dash kidding every now and again or something like that and get away with it well if if 17.4 references new hardware that that likely means that we'll hear about it sometime in March um because that's when 17.4 is supposed to come out because it has to do with regulations with the EU which we kind of glazed over that part but um all of this is due uh to happen by March Apple has to comply meaning 17.4 has to come out so these references don't necessarily mean they're going to announce the hardware by then it just means it's probably coming soon and the way I understand this works is they you know you're developing and you have to test against this stuff and if you're testing um iOS and iPad OS which is generally the same code base um and you're working with new hardware and you want to see uh have these call outs to a face ID iPad or an apple pencil with fine my it's all going to be in the code internal to Apple so like there's an internal beta running and when they want to publish that to the public there's um tags on everything that needs to be removed from um the code strings before it's published to the public so that you know you don't go in kind of like what happened with the homepod revealing um the iPhone 10 oops um yes uh which is pretty magnificent but uh just someone was asleep that day I don't know but basically I guess they tag everything a certain way so they can basically Target that tag and say everything with this tag go away or offis skate in some way and uh whoever wrote this stuff in just forgot to tag it or forgot to remove it later and it just happened to stay I picture somebody with a sandwich halfway to their M thinking oh there's something I should have done oh well Mind coffee these kinds of things don't result in firings I don't think but I they do they probably do result in some sort of disciplinary action or at least a firm talking to I don't think they take them to the severance chamber and make them read off of a pamphlet but that reminds me you were right Severance is back in production and so is silo uh you the the Styles and executive producers of both shows have said this week they're back in in the cameras and I was so relieved by that um but sticking with code in the beta because I got so briefly very excited about the news that also in iOS 17.4 is beta there are references to eight count them eight new carplay apps but you know there some of them are think like there's one called um closures all the app does is tell you whether the doors are open or not and I I get you know my car does that they're trying to replace every feature in a car but it's not really an app is it that's a notification so I don't so deep down in the operating system car OS whatever you want to call it uh carplay yeah it's it's actually a terrible name the more we get added to it I think we're going to they're going to have to change it change the name because I don't I don't think carplay makes any sense anymore but um because we saw carplay 2.0 right or 3.0 whatever version it is now the new version of carplay That's supposed to be futuristic where it takes over the entire Dash the instrument cluster all of that Well turns out you still need the instrument cluster but in software form so that means carplay needs to be able to tap into things like tire pressure and cabin temperature and door sensors and whether or not the trunk is open or uh operating the hood latch right like all of these stupid car things now that you you used to be analog and tap into a like mechanical switch that turns a light on on your dash now it has to integrate with a computer system which is very it hurts to say out loud but that's just that's that's how this modern stuff's going to work so instead of getting a you know actual like onoff switch that just turns a light on it's going to be converted to a digital signal that translates to an image on a LCD display and that's how basically we end up with eight new apps that do tire pressure indication and these aren't going to come to older cars I don't you know unless there's some weird third party um way to wire this up which they're not going to bother it's this is for the new car systems the the um Aston Martin right the car you're going to you're going to buy later this year in blue well exactly that's the question blue yeah yeah got to get something while I'm waiting for the Apple car clearly uh and this that's the kind of Market I'm in you know it's do I get one or two do I get one ASM marting and one put it's some it's a quite a hard decision do you have carplay installed or you own a car okay just last year uh I drove my car into the ground uh it was in such a bad State I finally replaced it and I know nothing about cars nothing at all but all I knew was I wanted carplay absolutely um and I have it I don't I I've said this to my wife recently because she uses carplay doesn't really think about it most people who use carplay Come Away thinking this is fantastic but the more I stop and think about I'm not sure why cuz it doesn't do a lot and it's very simple but still I now would not be without it for it I think it doesn't do very many things but it does them really well and simp yeah yeah yeah um I I own several carplay like fa like vehicles with factory installed carplay um over the years basically since it came out like I was in the military so I just went and bought a car with carplay in it I like I want to try this this this looks really cool and so I got like a 2014 whatever Honda Civic that had it and uh so I had a couple of vehicles since then with it and then recently I I went the cheap route and just wanted to save money and just bought some used Honda CR or HRV that it was a 2016 but it was the Basse trim so it didn't have carplay so I was just like ah but it I was getting a deal so I just went ahead and got it intending to add carplay later and went very long time without it just kind of just pushing it off like I don't want to bother I'm actually reviewing a carplay unit now that'll be you know you're hearing it from me now the review will be out in like late March we'll we'll see when it happens but I went through the installation process and GE it's so simple and yet so annoying as an electrician it was easy you know you just go and you attach the the wires to the the dash kit and make sure it all plugs in correctly but it it was so funny to me I pull out the old stereo and of course this is 2016 so everything's more integrated there's many more wires than you might find in say a 2006 um radio and I unplug everything and I realize my new carplay unit has one hole for things my old the the thing I just pulled out has four holes for things and and I had to sit there and think will my cart work without everything connected so I connected it uh so I I looked into it and the connections I made were to the speakers and the systems that were necessary for the carplay unit and the uh antenna were the two cables I did connect the two cables I did not get to connect were the rear backup camera which is Hardware or or factory default only for the car so there was no way to get that into the system which is fine I installed a third party backup camera to replace it long story short but um the other bundle of cable and this thing was a bunch of cables and I was just like what this feels important if I don't plug this in it's something going to catch on fire turns out all those cables was for controlling the audio like the the steering wheel button controls for all those wires it's maddening so I just left it unplugged I don't need my steering wheel control and uh nothing caught on fire yet so we'll see if anything uh funny happens right right that's nothing caught on fire yet okay we're going to end here because up to this point I'm going to tell you I have admired you as an electrician got this military background you know technology so well but what you've just told me is you made a quick repair job and you had a couple of cables left over that's the kind of thing I do bits left over cables were meant to be left over I mean oh yeah yeah yeah I'm thinking what I might do in the F in the future when I get bored is rip the whole thing back out again cuz it's connected to um a module connector like all the wires are going into a little guy and the guy plugs into the back is just a single plug so you're not going Wire by wire I think I'm just going to rip that whole head off and then Wire by wire connect it cuz there are steering wheel control connectors in the new wiring harness that I purchased they're just left without any connections to them so I'm going to go through and figure out what each one does and then manually connect them that way and that'll be an afternoon project at some point but I don't care enough to do it right now so I just threw it back in the dash and said I just won't have steering wheel controls right now well promise me when you do do it you will film it with spatial video on your new Apple Vision Pro headset okay promise me oh of course no and before we go I just wanted to bring up one last little tidbit yes um the Apple Vision Pro reviews did give us some information about the battery and I wanted to uh everyone has questions so the battery is rated at 3166 milliamp hours and it has a 35.9 wat hour um rating basically uh I'm gon just throw in here I I know I I should understand these These are always just numbers to me battery figures uh I've heard larger numbers so I presume this isn't great but that's about as far as to go are you disappointed it's very small especially for the case the battery case is basically the size of an iPhone like Pro Max but it's also made of solid metal so it's very heavy um if you get an anchor 10,000 mAh battery and it's made of plastic it's very lightweight and fits in your pocket pretty easily um I think Apple wanted to go for the design here but if they had gone with plastic it would have been much lighter probably easier to cool too cuz the battery will expound a lot of heat uh maybe the maybe the metal acts as a heat sink I don't I don't I didn't design the battery I don't know uh but the wat hour uh rating is promising if only because that means that it's um got a pretty good uh voltage um but and it also comes with a 30 watt power brick which is enough to keep it charg so if you plug it into 30 Watts um or more The Vision Pro won't drain while you're using it uh so that's a good and so that's a relatively low amount of required input wattage but that also means that most battery packs that you buy will very easily keep your um Vision Pro powered so if people were concerned about that uh you can put the you know if you're wearing jeans you put your Apple Vision Pro battery in your left jean pocket you put an anchor 20 amp milliamp hour battery in your right genan pocket bounce a cable between those bam now you have a headset for 12 and 1 half hours 15 hours I'm sorry that would be for a 10 thou a 10,000 milliamp hour battery extension pack would allow you to use your Vision Pro for about 12 hours okay you just look like you're wearing a bat utility belt at the time fanny pack or you know yeah nobody's going to be looking down there it all going to be what this funny thing on your face yeah this wait then obviously we're going to be working together and I'll read everything you do but the next time we actually speak we'll be on the podcast next time and by then you will have been to Nashville and can tell me all about the shows you saw can't you have a great trip for it and I am excited for you to be getting this and I want every possible detail yes yeah everyone you know follow you can follow along On my journey on on social on on Macedon really I'm not going to post anywhere else uh but yeah expect you know full review for The Vision Pro and I'm going to be discussing the silly travel case and the optical inserts and uh we're going to be coming up with a million different things to talk about during the week I'm going to be publishing we have actually a few people on staff getting it it's not just me and uh Mike and we have a couple other people looking into it so uh we'll have a few people writing differing articles with differing opinions so don't think it's going to be all me on there gushing about how amazing and wonderful a product it is there will be some people there to be angry about it as well so uh I hope everyone uh enjoyed my did you you you read that story I wrote last week I know we ended before it published and then here we are back again yes and now you started me off on another five things I want to talk about next week next next week great to talk to you love doing this go to Nashville uh thank you everybody much for listening and let's just sit here waiting for next week when we find out even more okayhello I'm William Gallagher and this is the Apple Insider podcast on a week in which Apple has made a lot of money uh joining me is where's hilard who well actually I was going to say w put is trying his best to give apple as much money as he can I think we all are really uh W were you astounded by Apple's success this week well I'm happy with my participation in the effort to ensure Apple doesn't go out of business for yet another quarter despite wall Street's uh dearest intentions you're a good man looking after the interests of Apple it's it's moving the little guy you know yes well I remember when they were the little guy how do analysts work this out oh excuse me how do analysts not work this out though every I mean I as we record this the earnings are out uh but the shares and stock will go down tomorrow and all this stuff they always go down no matter what Apple does and beforehand Apple's going to yeah so is there money in being wrong as an analyst do you think it's yeah it's either they they did too good and they're going to come crashing down any moment or they didn't do good enough and it's the sign of the end times there is no in between um but no it's it's not surprising I mean here we are uh let's see this this is the gosh what what month is it is it January so as this episode airs it's already February so this is their uh holiday quarter of course so uh Gang Busters as always lots of iPhone sales lots of things going on um not a lot in the way of Hardware releases we did have that October spooky event with some Max uh that helped to boost some of that Revenue but most of all you know as usual that Services revenue is uh very impactful and it's a just it's a fun roller coaster to ride uh I think the summ is Apple's going to survive to live another day isn't it yes I think so so okay in that case let's talk about other days looking to the future of Apple the thing I've been hearing all this week is that people have being handed incredibly big boxes and uh was I got to tell you this morning FedEx delivered the single biggest box I have ever had sent to me in this house but it wasn't a vision it was actually no it was shift happens the book about keyboards that you told me about months and months ago and I backed on Kickstarter uh they've actually got a video out of how carefully you have to unwrap the box so I haven't got to it yet whereas I understand when you get your big Vision Pro box um it's going to just perfect packaging and all are there loads of stickers or something is that why you're buying it you want stickers to put on the front of your Vision Pro I think that would make it so you couldn't actually use uh The Vision Pro right cuz the cameras yeah all right okay so have you open shift happens is it is it nice have you started looking through no no I mean actually it came while I was working so I couldn't and you normally with a box you could just just check that it's all there but seriously the video warns you about don't use knives that are too long don't use scissors that are too long as it's so well pack it's so tight you could scrape through to the boat so I'm going to surgically remove everything frankly the moment you and I stop talking and then I will gush about the book to you to everybody to people in the street and um that's not what we're here for I'm just excited by it you're equally excited because you've got the the big thing coming haven't you or rather you're going to the big thing aren't you have the reviews put you off do you have buyers remorse before you've even got it yet honestly it's exactly what I expected um I mean it's it's kind of funny now you can kind of just put a pin and in an Apple product review ahead of time and know what every publication's going to say uh The Verge is going to be very analytical honest but very critical um and that's exactly what happened this time I mean Nal Patel did a great job of describing the headset and its challenges but there's something about what how he describes things Apple does that just get under my skin I don't know what it is maybe he's just very he's just has the anti- Fanboy ammo and it just aimed directly at me but uh it but I didn't disagree with anything he said honestly other it just felt like he was very down on the product in a odd way versus like um MKBHD I Justine I I went through every one of these reviews and uh checked out like the unboxings and people describing the software I read through um John gruber's description of how a lot of these options work and I have a much better understanding now of what to expect on Friday um and a much better appreciation of it but I it didn't really turn me off from it I'm I'm more excited than ever to really dig into this thing since we're mentioning other people's re things I've got to say my favorite was Joanna Sterns On The Wall Street Journal CU she wore it for a day practically and uh there was a bit in there with cooking uh where she had a timer that she just floated over a a bowl of pasta and things you know you walk away you look back and there's a timer over the thing it's timing and I actually I would use that I would do that so uh that made me extra envious that I'm not actually going to get the chance I don't know that I would want to wear like seeing jna Stern it it was so funny cuz she said she worked for as long as she could for 24 hours anyway um wearing it to cook steam Rises off of these things and you're wearing a thing that it has an intake fan and an exhaust is it not getting Mo like I would worry about yeah I would worry about moisture I mean it is cooling it's actively cooling it there's an M2 Chip in it it's going to get hot hot you know I don't think it's I don't think it's like a fan in the traditional sense but um if you put your hand on the top where the vents are you're going to feel a little bit of heat so uh but yeah like there's holes in the base of the Vision Pro and steams rising and is it not obscuring the glass and steaming up I I just I don't understand how that particular portion works and you know in food steam there's food in it it's getting all stop stop this is getting horrible I just I don't know why you would want to wear it while you're like cooking over a steamy stove now you chopping vegetables and and other dry preparation sure but just like yeah over a steaming pot it just something about that felt off to me I didn't like her doing that I was like no nope not going to do that uh In fairness to her she did actually say that it wasn't recommended and uh there were things she didn't like about it she couldn't read uh food labels on you know condiments and things because looking through the lens the text on them was all pixelated and things so well wasn't a serious thing it was no more serious than her skiing uh briefly with it which was very brave of her I think U but actually wearing it in the snow period yeah yeah yeah but she did make me want to try it more than some people did but I will wait to hear what you say although actually that's a thought I was quite struck by how the every review I've seen has said very good things about Vision Pro and it's also had some you know genuine criticism of it but it feels like everybody's saying exactly what Mike worly said on Apple Insider back in August cuz he's the only person I know who got to use apple Vision Pro without it being under you know Apple's control and um Studio setups he used it like a real customer would and he was the same this is really good that isn't and looks interesting he was arguing that uh it wasn't quite finished then and it sounds like things are better now but similar so I'm over the place with this but there is one thing sorry after well I was just going to say it the like I said the reviews make a lot of sense but more important than ever I because okay pre- reviewing an iPhone you you're not going to be able to access every API call right because there's a new camera function or there's a new thing you can do with it uh but developers haven't had a chance to develop an app for that specific API call so uh you're you're testing the Apple watch and double tap doesn't work yet like that's all well and good but you're testing Vision Pro a week before it comes out when this is like put a time stamp as I'm speaking in this moment in time is the moment where it's at its absolute worst it's on its worst operating system version ever released and it's got the least amount of apps it will ever have and that becomes you know less true as time moves forward there's going to be there's more more apps every day uh they're releasing bug fixes Apple's going to come out with a a one2 more than likely here very soon for the consumer release if not a 1.1 which eh maybe not this soon but it's all getting better as time goes on of course so and and especially since Mike uh used it of course like that's that was deep in the um like pre-release era but even now the reviews that we're seeing are all on Hardware that doesn't really have an app ecosystem and on hard where that still has a lot of things to work out that we don't understand until it's really in everyone's hands that 1.1 release that 2.0 release in the fall that's what I'm most interested in what's happening once Apple understands what people are doing with this device um but again it's all still very interesting I I can see myself putting this thing on and opening a drafts window and Safari and just riding and doing my job from The Vision Pro how long it's hard to say the white thing still seems to be brought up repeatedly um but again the actual physics of it doesn't seem to make sense to me I like I understand that it's a heavy device and that maybe it does put pressure on your head and cheeks but I think Brian Tong was the one who said it but uh someone someone did say this that this is something you get used to uh especially your face is a very sensitive part of your body and it it's going to notice things more but as you wear a device like this like your neck and your head and your skin can't help but get used to it so goodness I don't know well I think this is definitely a device that we're going to have to observe over the long term and and as positive as initial reviews are in this very critical world that loves to find reason to dislike Apple I can't help but be excited about it I get that that something you said that just popped something into my head about the app ecosystem um so many developers uh saying they'll be available on day one and I realized all of these reviews are really there before day one day one is Friday the seconds that's when I imagine people will be through tell you what before you do anything else with your Apple Vision Pro check the App Store to see if Omni plan from the Omni group is with you just do that for me well the Omni guy I forget his name but uh Ken Cas Omni man himself um he yes he pointed out that uh they plan on not only ing A Vision Pro for everyone on the staff but they're going to support every single app on uh Vision Pro so maybe not at launch but that is definitely something they're working on um I can say that when we first started seeing um maybe a week within a few days after the uh pre-orders we saw articles uh we we covered it too that people were doing like app store checks and they could find maybe 100 150 native apps yeah um as of two days ago that was about 230 right so in a few in a few days it it's already increased by 100 native apps um Friday is everyone's Target of course there's a lot of apps in app review currently I'm seeing a lot of developers discussing this product and I would be willing to bet within the first week um we'll see hundreds more and in the first couple months we'll be well over I mean we're let's be honest how many how many apps you have installed on your phone right now William do you know offand uh quite a lot actually give me a second cover me I can I I seem to remember where you can check this if I go to settings General about uh I have 163 applications on my iPhone slightly more than I was expecting to be fair what about you I have 138 oh do I win I think so it depends on which way you're playing is this golf or um darts oh yeah okay so the funny thing is ask me that number two years ago and it would have been closer to 300 because there was a time that I downloaded everything I was trying everything I wanted every bespoke app that did one one function apps and then to have them call shortcuts and do specific things and in the last year or so I've noticed that Apple has taken over a lot of these functions within shortcuts within other apps and I've actually last year I made the call or maybe even two years ago now I can't remember the exact timeline but um in recent history I made the call to say you know what if apple has a function that's good enough I'm going to focus on using Apple's app or function versus a third-party call and I really haven't looked back that's why I honestly have so few apps out of those 138 like 30 of them are games and Apple has what 37 apps um installed by default or like 43 or something like that so realize that wow so I think all in all I might have like 60 third party apps and like eight of those are homekit related and it the breakdown is really funny like productivity Wise It's not that many so if you ever go down and just actually look at your app list look at what you have installed pay attention to like how many of each kind of app you have installed and it might surprise you that it's not as many as you might think I tend out to have four games and honestly that that's three more than I realized but I I it so I'm at 138 you're at 160 there's already more games uh or I'm sorry more apps in the vision OS app store um than we have installed on our phones and I understand that's not you know one to one comparison there's a lot of duplicates it's not every app that we use it's just keep in mind that we don't need a million apps we just need 10 good ones and not to defend the Vision Pro or anything just saying like I get the sentiment but at the same time I don't understand quite where it's coming from because the iPhone launched without an app store and I know it's not a direct comparison but I saw a wired article saying you know the Vision Pro is launching uh the iPhone the I I'm sorry apps made the iPhone and Vision Pro is launching without any and and I'm just sitting here laughing at like okay all right wired I I get the point you're trying to make but the Vision Pro already has more apps than the original iPhone did so I don't know what you're try what point you're trying to make exactly well actually I'm in a similar position I've been really it wasn't one place it was several and I thought either I am ludicrously wrong or they are uh let me try this on you there is a story going around several places that the reason there are no apps on the Vision Pro I mean that's the word no none nothing is because Apple's been nasty to Developers for years and now they're getting their Revenge um I would presume you just from two word two noises out of your mouth you don't agree with that this has been a what what's the word for a a rhetoric a just a stance that I have heard many times before it just seems to it seems to recur multiple times and okay I get it like we've discussed this at at nauseum Apple's policies and App Store and everything like you guys probably know my stance on a lot of this Apple I think deserves some kind of commission we can discuss whether or not 30% or 15% is correct we can discuss the EU stuff that they've announced that um it might bankrupt some companies like some of this is a little nasty some of it is malicious compliance I'm willing to see that but um i' also think that there is a line here that Apple does deserve some amount of money for operating the App Store and its ecosystem and but there no matter what Apple do does there will always be an epic games there always be a Tim Sweeny there always be a guy from Spotify whose Name Escapes me um those guys will always be upset unless they get their free lunch right um and there will complain all the way to the bank as they underpay artists and make frivolous inap purchases that um bankrupt families because they're they don't know how to use parental controls on iPhones um but don't care because they're billion Corporation who is in a spat with another billion doll Corporation right so it's healthy to take a little bit uh this with a little bit of salt I think that there is a sentiment out there that developers are very mad at Apple and the conversation has shifted to be very angry because of all the stories we've talked about in the last few weeks this isn't even about the EU I mean what was it two weeks ago uh that um Apple announced how it was going to handle um gosh what was it in the United States I've lost track of all the uh regulation changes that we've gone through in the last few weeks anyway there was anti- steering anti- steering that's the one yes so we we started with anti- steering right before the Apple Vision Pro pre-orders rolled right into the EU nonsense we're going to get into in a moment and now everyone's just really angry with apple developer relations but I say everyone what I really mean eight people in Macedon that I follow and that are very very vocal about it and when it's multiple people talking about it inside of your space it can feel like the whole world's talking about it but I'm being realistic here nobody's actually talking about this other than those handful of developers and many of them are many developers are actually okay with it and just not even speaking up about it because they don't care they're just living within the system they're willing to pay the price but what do you think about all this well I just to address the price thing I know developers who used to sell them software boxes so for them 30% to Apple is a absolute bargain and they're fine with it but that thing you just send them out it's very political isn't it um when you hear everybody in your space talking about one thing you think it's bigger and then you go somewhere else and it isn't uh I have a colleague in The Writers Guild here um I was I supposed to go to an event and I pulled out of it to cover an apple briefing and I told him what it was about and he said yay I've been hearing about that Apple's making it more expensive to subscribe to podcasts isn't it where did you get that from I think it was spotify's half her Spotify argument but apple is being damaged I mean this is a really smart guy he's not particularly interested in technology but he uses it he knows it really knows it really well and he also does you know contract negotiations at really high level stuff so he's well aware of nuances of things like this but that's the picture that it got out to him through all of this badmouthing if we zoom out just you know thousand yard view here of the situation um it's our responsibility as like Tech journalists whatever you want to call us uh that cover this information to put out this stuff in a way that's understandable and easy um to digest and not everyone follows that so a lot of people will immediately jump to whatever conclusion they want to and headline the story in most malicious way possible and and a lot of people just stop at the headline and or maybe they're just and it's not even that like they they could be scrolling Facebook or Twitter or their news aggregator they could be in Apple news and just scroll past the headline have no interest in really reading more about it but now it's a part of their information database their brain has absorbed that information so when it comes up in a topic later even if it's half remembered they're going to bring it up and be like hey didn't didn't Apple just start charging more money for podcast or something like and that's just how human brains works so that's why it's our responsibility to try to tell as much of the story as we can in a way that people can understand and no matter what you do there will always be people who get it wrong we published a story um covering the reviews for vision OS uh just saying hey all these reviews are available and I had I know this is it's an two two is a low number I understand but it's still two people willing to go out of their way out of their day to comment on the Twitter thread and say this is fake news there's no reviews out yet it's like all you have to do is click on the story and see like there's 17 reviews linked in here yes and and of course I didn't have to reply other people were like uh dude like Wall Street journals in there're like oh I didn't notice that the reviews were out you didn't bother even opening the story you just assumed the headline was a lie and commented on it so that I mean that's where we are as a as a as Humanity at the moment so this is what we're battling dayto day I must have told you about PBS um no sorry not PBS NPR National Public Radio in the states about I want to say 2013 they did an April Fool's Day story and the headline was uh why Americans don't read anymore and then the the first line was we have no idea they do it's fine whatever we're just trying to see who will comment on the headline and not the story and W up all of these comments for it was very funny for a couple of days at the time and then it got quite nasty but that's another story I mean many of our Twitter comments are from people who read the headline only and it's very obvious every time it happens and I don't know why they do it but it might just be a bot problem I don't know but the bot's just parsing the text and posting a reply but actually sorry I probably shouldn't say this but I've obviously started uh somebody commented on a video I made uh I did this YouTube channel 58 keys for writers to use apple gear and somebody put a comment on it and all I could say was well yes I just said that that was the whole point of the video exactly so you know I mean great that they engaged I suppose but still okay I tell you what let's keep on this and touch on some other things along the way because I cannot understand why people are confused about Apple's EU rules and I say that as someone who is confused by it how can it be so complicated um without trying to explain it all over again do you understand is there a defin appal Insider article that just gets it right did I write that article uh honestly I think you might have wrote that article but it's it's funny because I think Apple uh deliberately was obtuse with uh this implementation because um we'll get back to malicious compliance uh they're complying with the EU laws and let's be real I think technically speaking they are complying uh everything they did for the EU does make them qualify uh for not getting fined for violating the the digital markets act okay yeah but what they did to comply was fairly aggressive and that's where the term malicious compliance comes in we're doing it but we're doing it in the meanest nastiest way possible and okay I think that's somewhat an exaggeration but it isn't exactly the best system it's obviously built as everything else was no surprise anyone who's been paying any attention to Apple in the regulatory space knows that if they are forced to do something by a government they're going to do it in a way that complies with the law that makes everyone else angry look at what they did with the dating apps and the commissions there and look at at all these other things they're literally going to strip it down for parts and say okay it literally cost this much I was mad that I didn't get the percentage right last week on the show because I was actually not too far off I said Apple's just going to say do 22% because the rest is how much it costs for us thr in the app store they actually said 17% so I wasn't too far off um so anyway the rules are set up in a way to say you can run thirdparty marketplaces you can have apps exist outside of the App Store that can be downloaded directly from Safari but they still have to be approved by Apple they still have to go through commission and you still owe us money for participating on our platform um and technically all of that does comply so what I'm seeing and you can com on this more what I'm seeing is the biggest thing that people have an issue with and again this is only if you choose to exit Apple's current app store policy because it is a volunteer option this isn't everyone in the EU automatically it's if you choose to exit the current App Store um options um you are now having to pay 50 do you call it cents in Euros yes throws me half a euro is what I've been saying but yeah roughly 54 American cents is what cost so so half a Euro I guess uh per app install the first 100 I'm sorry the first million installs are waved um more or less but at million and one you're charged for the million and two right so it backlog oh now you see I thought it was everything after the million so a million and one is oh I'm sorry yeah cuz there was a calculator correct so everyone's putting in 2 million app installs and if you put in 2 million app installs you owe Apple $50,000 even if you charge $ z0 for your app but if you install it outside of Apple's current App Store system you owe Apple $50,000 and that is the current situation that we're dealing with but I would also argue just just to leave my point and I'll let I'll let you talk I would argue though if you're a developer making a free app that um doesn't charge any money why wouldn't you just use use app Apple system unless I guess it was an emulator or something but I I don't know I can see reasons why but also maybe just don't I I don't know yeah that makes sense I hadn't thought of emulators but I honestly I question whether an emulator is going to get a million and one downloads in a year I I would be really curious to know how many totally free apps uh have more than a million and the company doesn't monetize it in some other way um it's a dangerous game something it's a dangerous game to play Imagine launching an app okay so one I saw one example I saw I believe Steve stouton Smith brought it up on Mastadon and he said okay Mastadon is a publicly funded um uh system uh you can go to patreon and donate and they get like I don't know 50,000 like I I think it's sub that I think it's like $40 some thousand or $60 some thousand somewhere in there and um ations per year uh and if but clearly more than a million people use Mastadon if Mastadon used this system the company would go bankrupt because that's all the money that they get for development but now it's owed to Apple suddenly right but again that's if they use the system so I don't know one thing I originally thought was bad is uh if you do choose to leave the App Store um you can't go back I mean you could create another account and do something but you can't take an na out uh try it away from it and think this isn't working and try to go back um and I did think that was you know uh Apple kind of rudely shutting the gates on things but the more I think about it um what would they do if I moved an app from the App Store outside of the app and then sold loads of things and then moved back do they bill me for the ones that I sold while I was done and how to users upgrade I think they may not have had a choice on that one um there's nothing stopping you from just incorporating a new company and opening a new app store agreement I understand that's a big move but if you're well if you were an individual obviously that's kind of a process but if you're a company they don't care they'll they'll spin up seven um companies in a day just to get around certain regulations sure but um I don't know I I just I I've I've heard people say okay what do you do you you put a stoppage so that once you reach 999,000 999 downloads that it removes itself from the App Store and says sorry come again next year um I I think this is the thing that Apple's going to probably have to address or change uh just even in the most minor way but I think everything else uh it it works I the the the half yearo thing is odd I think it's an incentive to tell people to go away don't do it um and I think the EU is going to have a problem with it they're going to challenge appal on it's going to be a whole battle but I think this is what's ultimately going to change but I think everything else is going to stay the same yeah yeah you're saying legal battles every time I talk to you I'd love this CU my mind goes off in five different directions and there is one thing today I have got to ask you about because I know you're the man for it but I don't want to leave legal battles and forget about them because was it two weeks ago we got to announce that epic versus Apple was all over it was an American legal case that had actually ended and huh it's back again again uh because now epic is accusing Apple of um they're not using that phrase you did the uh what was phrase malicious um is compliance thank you they're not quite using that phrase but they are saying non-compliance apple is not doing the anti- steering thing like what it's supposed to um I think they've got a point actually but I can kind of live with it really um do you expl can I tell you what I know about or do you know this better than me uh no go ahead well the bits that that stuck out for me were um apple is supposed to allow developers to tell users that they can buy things directly from the developer which by implication means cheaper without the fee um and they have done that they are doing this but they have specified it can only be said to the user once and it can only be said at certain points and specifically not when they try to go buy an inapp purchase has to be practically on Startup and never again like like um privacy warnings and things like that and you see why they do it I see why epic thinks that's unfair but it's you know what you said it's the letter of the law they're doing what they absolutely have to and of course they are uh is that does Epic have a chance or are we going to have another three years of Epic versus Apple well so the problem is Apple is complying because the law wasn't specific enough um it didn't say apple must allow 10 instances of external linking in an app it just said it must allow an instance of external linking and apple literally said okay you can have one link to an external factor and so Apple complied and epic is upset so now they're going to go back to the LA and say but you you you didn't specify enough uh to say you can do whatever you want but because what epic really wants is a do whatever you want Clause so they can just do whatever they want like I I don't know why people think that there's some kind of hero in this situation they clearly just want to do everything possible to get around paying any money to anyone except themselves and that I think is silly uh epic is um definitely fighting the right battle for the wrong reasons uh Apple should allow external linking they should allow competition uh to an extent with within their own app store um say like Netflix like being a read app I guess um say Netflix wants to link in its store saying hey you can actually save 30% by going to an external uh to our website that there's should be no reason against that let or let users say you know what no I don't even though I could probably save a couple like $2 a month I'd really prefer just keep my payment information private to Apple and make that decision themselves maybe some consumers would actually make the decision I don't know that many people that would would but some people have the means to not care and they would just do that anyway and uh I don't know I just think apple is hurting itself with all these rules basically like you know if you go back in time a little bit to when you on the playground and uh someone wanted to um be the leader of a of their of your little club uh they would make all the rules but suddenly you realize all the rules just really benefited them and you would get nothing out of it right and uh and you would ask them so why why is it this way it's because I said so right there's not really any reason or justification it's just we built We Built This Club it is my club and I therefore what I say goes and that's why outside Regulators have to come in and say you know what maybe you're being a little unfair let's take control here so I don't like that governments are dictating what Apple needs to do but I also don't like that Apple's put itself in a situation where it needs an external resource telling them that they're wrong when they obviously clearly believe they're very right so it's a very interesting situation yeah I mean you've described yourself as an apple Fanboy and I quite like that you did that because people have it it is Accused people have accused me of being that and I felt you see I'm more critical than W I must be all right I am really down on certain things Apple does uh as a business all the union stuff he does for example I think that's loathsome but um I like what they do otherwise and it all of this just stuff makes me think that they're really good at developing legal teams as well as devices and things so yeah it's not the Apple we used to know tell you what let me ask you the thing before it goes out of my head because I wrote a new story today as we record this and I understood the new story but I knew you'd know more about it Unity has released this uh ability to develop uh Vision OS apps through its software um now they've been testing that for months we've covered it on Apple Insider when it first came out now it's for everybody on um whatever they their higher tier paid things are called Unity Pro I think is the bottom one that they do I I can't quite grasp whether this is a good or a bad thing because it seems to me that um if I develop for Unity for vision OS I could just develop a vision OS straight away and if I don't then I am dependent on unity and apple is dependent on Unity is Unity a useful tool or an abstraction layer do you think um I mean Unity I think it's the only option right I um Game Dev kits have become such a weirdly controversial thing because they exist to help you build these systems but now they're pulling basically what Apple does with their App Store and their apis they're they're charging a lot of money to um allow developers to use their systems and unity I think is one of the better ones out there is my understanding maybe I'm maybe I'm misremembering I I can't remember um which one does epic games own epic owns its own it is Unity I think is it epic games okay so maybe maybe I'm misremembering because I I do remember there being this huge spat over um like basically the this Dev tool owning everything in perpetuity if you build it on its engine more or less um I don't know if that was Unity or not my my brain's escaping me on this one I didn't do the research but uh I don't know what do you think like with it is this going to help uh push more apps to Vision Pro it just it reminds me as a non-gamer I was vaguely aware of unity but it sounds to me like um uh what's that thing that uh obstruction layer that people use for developing Mac apps that aren't really Mac apps I want to say Cascade or caval Gade or something beginning with the ca I'm really into this look at the level of detail we've got here this uh this nul thing I remember when one password announced they were going to it uh I was deeply disappointed that they were abandoning the uh Native uh Mac version we're talking about the Chrome the Chrome thing um I don't think it's definitely we're narrowing this down begins with a c uh come back next week for the rest of the word um yeah it felt like I was suddenly worried let me be clear about one password I think they actually in the end they did a much better job than I was expecting and I use it and it looks good and I wouldn't know it wasn't there but over the years I've seen situations where uh a middle ground platform like this has become so important that it's killed off the computers underneath it so something that was to allow you to work with right one out for Windows and Mac for example uh never updated to have all the the good new Mac stuff it only ever stayed as the kind of um uh least common denominator for it so every app through it was actually not a great Windows app not a great Mac app and I worried that Unity would be doing the same for Vision Pro possibly groundlessly but that's the first thing I thought when I read all this oh no no no no no um it's not that uh I great we're going to get a million emails um yeah so what you're describing is the I I I'm pretty sure it's the Chrome thing um it's basically where it's uh a web wrapper around or it's an app wrapper around a web app basically that that launches into this like ugly web view that's clearly not built for the device you're on Unity is uh it's it's a game development engine so um a lot of apps and a lot of games are built with unity and uh because of that a lot of them look kind of similar um but at the same time uh it does open the door to a lot of things I think we already saw uh some games uh use Unity to develop on Vision Pro it's just now it's a public tool rather than being like in a private beta or whatever it is uh that was going on on their end so I do remember Apple trying to block epic games from um allowing Unity on um iOS when they were fighting them over fortnite and thankfully that got bled cuz that would have disrupted a lot of game development like like people would have had to have shifted to a completely new um Dev tool and it just would not was not going to happen but um no I I I don't I I think I think this is actually a good thing like uh Unity being available for Vision Pro development is excellent it it just means uh more opportunity more options for developers uh as far as building games and platforms for the new device well in that case um I will try to forget how little I know about this and just be generally relieved which is you know it's kind of good way to be really how about we move on to something that I know for a fact except I don't um anyone listening to this I Insider podcast on an iPhone if you would please look at the show page and scroll down to the bottom you may or you may not see a new transcripts section this is not one we have done it's Apple has added transcripts in iOS 17.4 and they automatically generated and the ones I've seen are really well done but not every podcast has it uh podcast uh producers have to agree it's a new part of the legal firm uh terms and conditions for it and APPL are agreed instantly uh for it of course we did we want this for people but it seems to be also rolling out slowly so if you've got transcripts you could scroll through and see how many times we look for words beginning with c um or not it's always so 1.4 so you have to be in the beta do you know that would make sense isn't it and I started this saying things I know about and uh things I know about and have forgotten um how about we make this one of those uh features that nobody's ever heard of that you know but when 17.4 is out how does that sound reasonable come back to this right yeah U but also Kate 17.4 beta there are other things there are iPad Pro and Apple pencil capabilities now this bit I don't know about and I believe you do cuz I I always think of you as the iPad guy for it um was there enough in the beta to tell us what these features capabilities are basically this is the usual kind of code leak um Apple forgot to remove something or uh what some string it's literally like a snippet someone's gone through and read line for line inside of the code and found this snippet that mentions uh like and mostly gibberish with equal signs and and dashes and then in the middle of it it says uh like landscape oriented face ID camera right in the middle of this long streaking of random text um so this is that kind of leak uh basically someone was able to dig in uh and uh so one of the people that checkout code for 9 to5 Mac they covered this um they were able to find references to a iPad Pro Pro with a landscape face ID camera which we don't have yet that's only on the iPad 10th Generation Um and then they also found references to an apple pencil 3 that would be included in fine my and that string was probably something along the lines of fine my you know include equal you know apple pencil Das you know third generation or whatever so or just apple pencil because it doesn't have to say the number at the end you just know oh whatever the new Apple pencil's going to be is going to have this F my functionality cuz n no no pencil works with fine by currently oh that's true of course it doesn't I wouldn't that beesting actually quite fancy a pencil that does cuz I keep losing my pencil not that I use it that often I'm sorry I'm so temp I would be curious to know what Apple's process is for putting out beers because if you start removing things you don't want people to know about yet and then you put them back I mean is there a chance that would actually cause more problems maybe they just think let let it be in there we'll we'll put in dash dash kidding every now and again or something like that and get away with it well if if 17.4 references new hardware that that likely means that we'll hear about it sometime in March um because that's when 17.4 is supposed to come out because it has to do with regulations with the EU which we kind of glazed over that part but um all of this is due uh to happen by March Apple has to comply meaning 17.4 has to come out so these references don't necessarily mean they're going to announce the hardware by then it just means it's probably coming soon and the way I understand this works is they you know you're developing and you have to test against this stuff and if you're testing um iOS and iPad OS which is generally the same code base um and you're working with new hardware and you want to see uh have these call outs to a face ID iPad or an apple pencil with fine my it's all going to be in the code internal to Apple so like there's an internal beta running and when they want to publish that to the public there's um tags on everything that needs to be removed from um the code strings before it's published to the public so that you know you don't go in kind of like what happened with the homepod revealing um the iPhone 10 oops um yes uh which is pretty magnificent but uh just someone was asleep that day I don't know but basically I guess they tag everything a certain way so they can basically Target that tag and say everything with this tag go away or offis skate in some way and uh whoever wrote this stuff in just forgot to tag it or forgot to remove it later and it just happened to stay I picture somebody with a sandwich halfway to their M thinking oh there's something I should have done oh well Mind coffee these kinds of things don't result in firings I don't think but I they do they probably do result in some sort of disciplinary action or at least a firm talking to I don't think they take them to the severance chamber and make them read off of a pamphlet but that reminds me you were right Severance is back in production and so is silo uh you the the Styles and executive producers of both shows have said this week they're back in in the cameras and I was so relieved by that um but sticking with code in the beta because I got so briefly very excited about the news that also in iOS 17.4 is beta there are references to eight count them eight new carplay apps but you know there some of them are think like there's one called um closures all the app does is tell you whether the doors are open or not and I I get you know my car does that they're trying to replace every feature in a car but it's not really an app is it that's a notification so I don't so deep down in the operating system car OS whatever you want to call it uh carplay yeah it's it's actually a terrible name the more we get added to it I think we're going to they're going to have to change it change the name because I don't I don't think carplay makes any sense anymore but um because we saw carplay 2.0 right or 3.0 whatever version it is now the new version of carplay That's supposed to be futuristic where it takes over the entire Dash the instrument cluster all of that Well turns out you still need the instrument cluster but in software form so that means carplay needs to be able to tap into things like tire pressure and cabin temperature and door sensors and whether or not the trunk is open or uh operating the hood latch right like all of these stupid car things now that you you used to be analog and tap into a like mechanical switch that turns a light on on your dash now it has to integrate with a computer system which is very it hurts to say out loud but that's just that's that's how this modern stuff's going to work so instead of getting a you know actual like onoff switch that just turns a light on it's going to be converted to a digital signal that translates to an image on a LCD display and that's how basically we end up with eight new apps that do tire pressure indication and these aren't going to come to older cars I don't you know unless there's some weird third party um way to wire this up which they're not going to bother it's this is for the new car systems the the um Aston Martin right the car you're going to you're going to buy later this year in blue well exactly that's the question blue yeah yeah got to get something while I'm waiting for the Apple car clearly uh and this that's the kind of Market I'm in you know it's do I get one or two do I get one ASM marting and one put it's some it's a quite a hard decision do you have carplay installed or you own a car okay just last year uh I drove my car into the ground uh it was in such a bad State I finally replaced it and I know nothing about cars nothing at all but all I knew was I wanted carplay absolutely um and I have it I don't I I've said this to my wife recently because she uses carplay doesn't really think about it most people who use carplay Come Away thinking this is fantastic but the more I stop and think about I'm not sure why cuz it doesn't do a lot and it's very simple but still I now would not be without it for it I think it doesn't do very many things but it does them really well and simp yeah yeah yeah um I I own several carplay like fa like vehicles with factory installed carplay um over the years basically since it came out like I was in the military so I just went and bought a car with carplay in it I like I want to try this this this looks really cool and so I got like a 2014 whatever Honda Civic that had it and uh so I had a couple of vehicles since then with it and then recently I I went the cheap route and just wanted to save money and just bought some used Honda CR or HRV that it was a 2016 but it was the Basse trim so it didn't have carplay so I was just like ah but it I was getting a deal so I just went ahead and got it intending to add carplay later and went very long time without it just kind of just pushing it off like I don't want to bother I'm actually reviewing a carplay unit now that'll be you know you're hearing it from me now the review will be out in like late March we'll we'll see when it happens but I went through the installation process and GE it's so simple and yet so annoying as an electrician it was easy you know you just go and you attach the the wires to the the dash kit and make sure it all plugs in correctly but it it was so funny to me I pull out the old stereo and of course this is 2016 so everything's more integrated there's many more wires than you might find in say a 2006 um radio and I unplug everything and I realize my new carplay unit has one hole for things my old the the thing I just pulled out has four holes for things and and I had to sit there and think will my cart work without everything connected so I connected it uh so I I looked into it and the connections I made were to the speakers and the systems that were necessary for the carplay unit and the uh antenna were the two cables I did connect the two cables I did not get to connect were the rear backup camera which is Hardware or or factory default only for the car so there was no way to get that into the system which is fine I installed a third party backup camera to replace it long story short but um the other bundle of cable and this thing was a bunch of cables and I was just like what this feels important if I don't plug this in it's something going to catch on fire turns out all those cables was for controlling the audio like the the steering wheel button controls for all those wires it's maddening so I just left it unplugged I don't need my steering wheel control and uh nothing caught on fire yet so we'll see if anything uh funny happens right right that's nothing caught on fire yet okay we're going to end here because up to this point I'm going to tell you I have admired you as an electrician got this military background you know technology so well but what you've just told me is you made a quick repair job and you had a couple of cables left over that's the kind of thing I do bits left over cables were meant to be left over I mean oh yeah yeah yeah I'm thinking what I might do in the F in the future when I get bored is rip the whole thing back out again cuz it's connected to um a module connector like all the wires are going into a little guy and the guy plugs into the back is just a single plug so you're not going Wire by wire I think I'm just going to rip that whole head off and then Wire by wire connect it cuz there are steering wheel control connectors in the new wiring harness that I purchased they're just left without any connections to them so I'm going to go through and figure out what each one does and then manually connect them that way and that'll be an afternoon project at some point but I don't care enough to do it right now so I just threw it back in the dash and said I just won't have steering wheel controls right now well promise me when you do do it you will film it with spatial video on your new Apple Vision Pro headset okay promise me oh of course no and before we go I just wanted to bring up one last little tidbit yes um the Apple Vision Pro reviews did give us some information about the battery and I wanted to uh everyone has questions so the battery is rated at 3166 milliamp hours and it has a 35.9 wat hour um rating basically uh I'm gon just throw in here I I know I I should understand these These are always just numbers to me battery figures uh I've heard larger numbers so I presume this isn't great but that's about as far as to go are you disappointed it's very small especially for the case the battery case is basically the size of an iPhone like Pro Max but it's also made of solid metal so it's very heavy um if you get an anchor 10,000 mAh battery and it's made of plastic it's very lightweight and fits in your pocket pretty easily um I think Apple wanted to go for the design here but if they had gone with plastic it would have been much lighter probably easier to cool too cuz the battery will expound a lot of heat uh maybe the maybe the metal acts as a heat sink I don't I don't I didn't design the battery I don't know uh but the wat hour uh rating is promising if only because that means that it's um got a pretty good uh voltage um but and it also comes with a 30 watt power brick which is enough to keep it charg so if you plug it into 30 Watts um or more The Vision Pro won't drain while you're using it uh so that's a good and so that's a relatively low amount of required input wattage but that also means that most battery packs that you buy will very easily keep your um Vision Pro powered so if people were concerned about that uh you can put the you know if you're wearing jeans you put your Apple Vision Pro battery in your left jean pocket you put an anchor 20 amp milliamp hour battery in your right genan pocket bounce a cable between those bam now you have a headset for 12 and 1 half hours 15 hours I'm sorry that would be for a 10 thou a 10,000 milliamp hour battery extension pack would allow you to use your Vision Pro for about 12 hours okay you just look like you're wearing a bat utility belt at the time fanny pack or you know yeah nobody's going to be looking down there it all going to be what this funny thing on your face yeah this wait then obviously we're going to be working together and I'll read everything you do but the next time we actually speak we'll be on the podcast next time and by then you will have been to Nashville and can tell me all about the shows you saw can't you have a great trip for it and I am excited for you to be getting this and I want every possible detail yes yeah everyone you know follow you can follow along On my journey on on social on on Macedon really I'm not going to post anywhere else uh but yeah expect you know full review for The Vision Pro and I'm going to be discussing the silly travel case and the optical inserts and uh we're going to be coming up with a million different things to talk about during the week I'm going to be publishing we have actually a few people on staff getting it it's not just me and uh Mike and we have a couple other people looking into it so uh we'll have a few people writing differing articles with differing opinions so don't think it's going to be all me on there gushing about how amazing and wonderful a product it is there will be some people there to be angry about it as well so uh I hope everyone uh enjoyed my did you you you read that story I wrote last week I know we ended before it published and then here we are back again yes and now you started me off on another five things I want to talk about next week next next week great to talk to you love doing this go to Nashville uh thank you everybody much for listening and let's just sit here waiting for next week when we find out even more okay\n"