**Apple Insider Plus and Favorite Apple Aspects**

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What do they do that just works for us? This is actually something that might come up in aider plus. But if not, I'd love to discuss it on our show or YouTube project. 58 Keys is my new channel on YouTube, where I'm exploring various tech topics and more. If you're interested in following me, you can find me on Masson, where I help manage social media at up Insider.

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**Conclusion**

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"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhello and welcome to the Apple Insider podcast I'm your host Wesley Hillyard and I joined once again by William Gallagher our sponsor this week is Zach talk and if you are a paid premium subscriber you get apple Insider plus and this week we're going to be talking about you know why we like apple in the first place we've had a similar topic to this before but this is going to be in direct contrast to our last week's uh topic which was things we dislike about Apple so we kind of wanted to counterbalance that a little bit of more of why do we even support this company in the first place is it their ethics is it their technology a little bit of both there's a lot going on here so pay a little bit become premium subscriber get the adree feed and you'll get to hear that conversation but uh how you doing William you can't ask William any questions you don't have permission to open that file sorry I've been getting that error running a shortcut my Mac and my shortcut telling me I cannot open my own file because I don't have permission and you know I know we're going to say good things to Bad Apple but that bad one has been driving me spare for the last month or so and I've just had it four times today for no apparent reason I'm just going end rant otherwise I'm fine how are you I think we should be able to change those prompts to open with sorry Dave I'm afraid yes I can't do that uh everything uh everything's going good here I'm excited I ordered an iPad Mini 7 but we'll get oh really oh oh I want to hear about that yes yes but before before we talk about anything I I realized last week we mentioned submerged elevated and the Super Bowl uh 4minute special arrived on Vision Pro but I hadn't had a chance to watch them yet well I have now seen them and uh yeah I just wanted to discuss a little bit about them before we move on great can I just remind you I cannot see it cuz I haven't got an app Vision Pro so you know don't make this sound too good right I I have wondered if Apple would ever and I I guess they wouldn't uh consider maybe releasing a 2d version of these things because they would work in two Dimensions they would they're flat uh if you it would lose some of the spectacle but it's not like some secret uh thing that it's just un unknown to the two-dimensional plane you can only see it in 3D I um I'm just I'm sure this is all very promo but as we go further down this Rabbit Hole of developing content for Vision Pro will there be a day where a full length movie is released and the only way you can watch it is on an Apple Vision Pro that would be an interesting thing but it reminds me too though 3D movies exist right you don't if you don't own a 3D TV there's no way to watch it in 3D but that doesn't take away from the fact that that movie exists and people can watch it uh but I guess because the medium is so different Apple really wants to promote that hey Apple Vision Pro this is the only way you get this content but we'll see how they handle that strategy going forward yeah I would like to say that every time 3D films come out and like it's a cyclical fad every 10 20 years or something uh they're always a bit rubbish really and then they go away again what i' heard about submerged in particular is that this really does make use of 180 degree views of thing so it seems like it's very 3D so the director was the first person who actually seemed to know what they were doing in um Vision Pro space as far as spatial video the other things that we've watched on Apple Vision Pro fine um I mean there's a few of them that are breathtaking uh the wild with the the Rhinos was a lot of fun uh they did a good job picking their camera angles that those were very deliberate um the adventure with the person climb walking across the tight RPP those were good deliberate camera angles they felt correct but this was the first uh dramatic story where the camera kind of not only had to change multiple times throughout it also had to move in certain scenes and they just handled it brilliantly the framing and everything was just right and there's a lot of shots you would never see on a movie screen maybe not unless it was a very specific kind of film right I it reminds me of severance anyone not Severance uh s word uh Silo uh no no no um servant slow horses oh so go through all the s's so it reminds me a lot of Serv and might Shyamalan for some reason and I and I and I like this deliberateness he spent a lot of time like servant would actually make a really good Vision Pro um film actually he'd have to just go record the entire show go ahead M9 Shan go ahead it's excellent show go watch it but um there's a lot of just tight closeup almost uncomfortable angles of people of of the characters talking into the camera not into the camera but they're it's they're performing inches away from it feels like from the camera and you're just getting every pore of their face as they're reacting to what's going on around them these tight shots would work excellently in Vision Pro and that's what they did in submerged you you get a a lot of the guy walking around and then get real enclose to where the light and Shadow the the detail in his skin is just pronounced or you're behind his head and uh they use bokeh excellently telling you focus here and you're looking at him looking around but you can also look around him and see in the background that there's someone sleeping in their in their bed or whatever it's it's just really well done the Direction is awesome the storytelling is is great it might be a little slow Pac but I think they had to they wanted do to make it as long as they could uh so there are moments where the characters are just standing and looking around as noises are happening um just kind of getting giving that creep Factor giving you that claustrophobia of being underwater in a submarine they captured everything well and um Mike actually wrote about this being a Subs sailor I was in the Navy too but I was surface Fleet I've been on submarines and being on a submarine was enough for me to say I don't want to be on a submarine so I chose not to I I I'm conflicted here something because new format new platform you want it to use that you want it to be for that platform not just some sort of 3D ified thing but also I don't want to be in the middle of a story and think oh that's a nice shot I want to be completely Carried Away by the story for it um oh I mean of course I was I was observing these things purposefully but uh it was immersive like you you could definitely settle into this and just watch it of course okay um you're saying that uh they wanted to make it longer ordinary the way you make that longer as you write it longer uh did the story feel like um was it the right length for the story they told the pacing was excellent um yeah everything worked it it they did a great job the first half is essentially this uh man wakes up in his rack and he just kind of is contemplative of sounds and honestly I've had the same feeling um waking up on a carrier in the middle of the night uh all the lights are off the red lights are on uh if uh in in and when you're out at Sea red is the shortest distance uh of light travel so all the lights are red at night to to limit your sight distance on the water so uh when you get out of bed all the lights are red uh in the hallways and everything like that and um everyone's asleep so you hear every sound and the waves Outside The Creeks the crawls and Taps uh if you're being pinged by a sonar you can hear the pinging off of the hole it's kind of wild there's a lot of noise uh associated with being out to sea and they they and being underwater on top of that of course you're going to hear even more uh sound so they captured that perfectly and he's looking around and hearing these noises they notice someone's missing from their rack so he goes and starts walking the hallways and uh just kind of like looking around like where is this guy and uh he finds him in in the galley of course uh stealing some food um some very lovely looking uh girkins I love I love gerkens but um they he's like dude live a little eat some food and uh they have a conversation and this conversation through the Vision Pro excellent um I don't want to go into every moment it's just that opening bit worked for what it was it was nice and slow it gave you a setpiece it let you see everything everything everywhere that was going to be happening um let you kind of get to know the character a little bit he seems to be on the skittish side and all of that stuff and then suddenly bam they're hit by something and battle stations are called and everything thing comes alive and I have been in these situations before not under attack um so to speak uh I've never been on a vessel that was under attack we've been threatened multiple times but nothing this drastic uh they' hit been hit by a depth charge is What's happen in the story even though I don't think anyone explicitly says it um anyway they run to their Battle Stations and just I'm having flashbacks to being on being on fire detail and having to run out of my bed go and put on a fire suit and get ready to go fight a fire or uh just things things or having to run to the emergency generators and go through the startup sequence and being ready to connect to the Electrical uh circuits at any moment because one of the reactors might have had to shut down right like this kind of feeling this just suddenness out of the middle of nowhere it's completely peacefully dark and quiet to everyone's running and yelling at each other orders to get things done and then then so they obviously had some uh military advisers and then finally the get to a uh torpedo room and it just how they're relaying orders and speaking to each other it's all it was all very well done and uh ultimately the ship starts flooding they have to escape so it's just a very good tight 17 minutes and they fill it out very well it it's just all the little points and I can see more content being made for this platform in this way see I listen to you and I'm thinking how similar our backgrounds are I mean I I'm flashing back to paper cuts uh sprained wrists typing it's not as glorious as it sounds I promise okay it's glory is not the word I was thinking of for frightening was the word yeah exactly it's uh it was it was a job and engineering and its own right can be wild I've I've been in a um the steam side of the plant as we refer to it and have a steamline rupture occur I wasn't in the room thankfully I was in the electrical room but um once the temperatures dropped uh because it was a secondary steam steamline rupture so it wasn't too dangerous uh it just allowed a lot of steam to get into the room and it was essentially raining uh inside of the compartment and it's kind of kind of crazy uh to see something like that well one quick question about all this cuz this is important is it left is this film left in such a way that they could be submerged to the sequel no no no I mean it's clearly just a short story and they had a lot of fun and I I I I like how they filmed it um unless uh Tom Hanks shows up and rescues them or something I don't think there's going to be any more from these characters um okay just excellent all the way around I I would love to see more short films like this but I'm I'm very interested now let's get to Let's push it up to 30 minutes what about an hour hour and a half you right can we get James Cameron to uh film an avatar something silly okay I was with you to that minute but all right joke no seriously like I want I want to see what a full length film looks like here and I can only imagine it costing $20 billion cuz this feels like something that is going to be very difficult to create on a larger scale it would have to be the only there's films that come to mind and that we can move on from this topic cuz I know I went into a lot of detail here but it was it was very enjoyable if you have a Vision Pro please go watch it or uh maybe see if an Apple Store employee will let you sit there for 17 minutes and watch a film um oh I never thought of that yes excellent oh I might ask that okay think I like films that are I mean the before Trilogy Before Sunrise Before Sunset all that stuff I can't imagine Apple from filming one of those in this format because as a you know it wouldn't really have the promotional spectacle that it sounds like this did things things come to mind um I could see exmachina if anyone's ever seen that film it's uh it it could easily take place inside of Vision Pro because you're basically following this character room to room and it's a lot of discussion based stuff it's a it's a a kind of a thriller where uh a a Mark Zuckerberg esque person living out in the middle of nowhere invites a man to come and see his creation and it's a uh like a Android like creation that uh he's trying to get it to past uh like Turing all that stuff like anyway it's an interaction he just he has conversations with it but the special effects are very ramped up so it's very just a very beautifully shot film as well but I could see that style of film being Apple vision Pro I there's so many things like this like I would love a thriller in Vision Pro or could you imagine a short like alien film right like alien is an alien um yes uh Ridley Scott uh could you imagine that kind of claustrophobic inside of the the hull of the spaceship hearing the creeks and crawls around you something's moving the ventilation shaft something jumps down behind you right like that kind of presentation inside of Vision Pro there there's so many ways you could use this platform I'm very excited for it and I'm glad that we're finally seeing the stuff uh come out elevated great just wanted to mention that was that was cool and then go ahead sorry I no I i' forgotten about the other two I was so into this one but it just occurs to me that there you are enjoying this wraparound fullframe absolutely everything absorbs absorbing situation screens in your face and then you went and bought the smallest iPad possible I'm interested in that decision making yeah so yeah we can move on I just wanted to mention the Super Bowl thing cool but that when when they it's a sport when they nail how to get that to happen live or near live it is going to change the game literally like people that people will buy Vision Pro just to watch sports it is phenomenal being on the goal side and or in the end zone I suppose being football um and seeing them kick a field goal right like there's just so much to this that is excellent excellent excellent but it's also four minutes it took them like six months to make it's Madness but moving on uh Vision Pro I'm still enjoying it it's actually really great I just wish uh we could get the ball rolling a little bit faster iPad Mini out of nowhere uh just happened to roll out of bed the other day and see oh look there's an iPad Mini available it's start of a song isn't it well woke up this morning d d du there's a new iPad I'll buy it okay a short song then was it as instant for you as that exists by yeah um I kind of waited around because I wanted to see what would pop up because uh inevitably companies have deals and different things um Apple's Apple's tradein option was actually kind of mediocre for my existing iPad mini and I have no idea what to do with this thing right I have the iPad Mini 6 256 gigs I think it was uh $799 at uh at that price at the at launch uh 3 years ago so I was just like I can't sell this thing the battery is exhausted like I I use it continuously and anytime it's off the charger if I'm actively using it it will die within about four or five hours it's just it is completely ramped to exhaus I mean I'll look after it if if you need somewhere to keep it but um well Best Buy popped up and luckily they offered $120 more than Apple did so apple is offering something like 230 Best Buy said we'll give you 350 for it so I went ahead and did the trade in and got the 512 gigabyte uh so um iPad do it start at$ 499 so Best Buy is offering a tradeing of how much did you say 350 yes but you would be trading from a 256 to a 128 if you want that route yeah cuz the M mine was the higher storage tier um that's a big Trading in value it is completely I forgive you for not just sending it to me like any good person would okay right um so um if you don't mind me asking how much does that t the new uh iPad cost something around 88 something after tax 8:30 um and then the 350 will come off and I owe something around the 400s again good good deal all around I'm I'm happy with it I was going I was ready to just go buy it so I'm happy that I got that trade in value that was worth something cuz selling it I would have felt bad selling it to someone because I would have said go get a new battery put in immediately because it's it's worthless without a new battery or I would have had to have put a battery in something like that like it just I didn't feel right selling it in the condition it was in like it's meant on the externally it's just that battery is just completely murdered um it's just I remember when the iPad Mini first came out it was very clearly the iPad for people who couldn't afford an iPad and then that changed and I think it changed with the six it became this really good iPad but also the price yeah the price was suddenly very expensive uh for it's like they realized the size was a boon not a uh whatever the opposite of a boon is um and it sounds like it's continued that now but you've managed to get a good deal on it so I wanted to discuss a little bit about the discourse around this device uh I don't know I I think the world's just incredibly cynical and maybe it's always been cynical and I'm I'm always just kind of I shouldn't be shocked by it anymore uh I mean especially being in the Apple space for as long as I have been I've seen these kinds of reactions before but I was kind of taking a back just seeing everyone saying wow this is a wasted upgrade I guess we'll wait till 2027 for a real iPad update and it's just like I get it but also what the PE what people were expecting and this is where my confusion comes in is is like an iPad Mini Pro they were like where's the promotion did you address jelly scrolling why is the USB port still slow uh all these things well they did update the USB port it went from 5 to 10 gigabits per second but Touch ID still on the button why isn't it you know why why didn't we move any of these specs along it's like okay in 2021 when they updated the iPad Mini they said here's the iPad Air but smaller and to be fair at the time it was very surprising they put that Year's iPhone chip into the iPad Mini so that was a difference and it was a chipset better than the iPad Air at the time before the iPad Air got an M1 um I think the M1 iPad Air came almost immediately after that or at the same time um but anyway like it was a surprising update uh overall it it was just a good redesign wellmade just almost unexpected desirable but unexpected then it took 3 years to up update and now we're getting last year's chipset the A7 Pro um and it appears to be uh the Lesser version of that maybe the cores are a little little shuffled or whatever but it's not the a18 or whatever that the iPhone 16 has um and that's pretty much all that changed and the things that changed with it are the things that the A7 Pro brings like Wi-Fi 6E Bluetooth 5.3 um nothing else changed uh overall fine it was a chip bump the displays the same the design is the same but were people really expecting some major redesign this this is the redesigned iPad it it just got redesigned so unless they dramatically changed the display technology and and shrunk the bezels nothing else was going to change about this device uh it apparently it supports Apple intelligence so does that mean it has more um Ram than the Ala model it's it's just the A7 Pro these are all features due to A7 Pro coming to the iPad I I think it has the same amount of Ram uh which I think the minimum is uh what was it 8 gigs for Apple intelligence and iPads have been coming with that for a while maybe they bumped maybe I'm maybe I'm Incorrect and it was six gigs before but it's whatever it is it's it's what it needs for Apple intelligence so that's fine but and and we get the hardware accelerated Ray tracing and everything else the a15 uh A7 Pro brings with it uh the very first thing I heard was ooh iPad Mini and then the second thing I heard was ah uh bined chips or something like um uh whatever didn't work for the iPhone has been bunged in this instead uh is that fair well so the thing the thing that's that's annoying here is okay Apple none of this is surprising this update is not surprising I don't again I don't know why people are reacting the way they are they took the chips they're no longer using for the iPhone and right they've made cheaper right they have them in bulk they're sitting in warehouses and they're sticking them in the iPad that's it uh that it makes that's what Apple does that's what Tim Cooks Apple does they they take the supply chain and make it efficient to a fault and shove things down stream and the iPad Mini I guess Apple decided doesn't need an M series chip doesn't and they're probably already constrained as it is on building those a18 Pros so why uh limit the iPhone Market where they're selling everyone that they make already um and try and and and dwindle that Supply when they need to be ramping up that Supply so it's especially with the nanometer technologies that we're dealing with and everything it just it makes sense that they went with last year's chipset they went with the bare minimum to get apple intelligence um for this iPad which I'm curious uh how that is going to feel on this on this particular device because it is not interacted with with a mouse and keyboard but it's also not an iPhone so what in between is it going to play but I I personally was not disappointed by these specs the the resolution of the display didn't need to get better it could have shifted to OLED I suppose um it could have increase the refresh rate but uh like those are obvious future upgrades and then in the Next Generation but for me the iPad Mini 6 was already a perfect device like it's a five out of five 100% its lifespan every the daily use of it reading books playing these smaller games uh interacting with social media like its use cases were built like it they were it was it is the best iPad as an iPad that I've used in a long time because of its size and use cases so uh are you an apple pencil user yes well I guess I don't really draw but I I do use it so did you um I resume the new app mini supports the new uh apple pencil did you already have that yes I have the apple pencil Pro and up until now I've had to use both two different Apple pencils so now I'll be able to switch to just having one right yes but I I just want to I just want to say like guys if you're happy with your iPad Mini 6 the iPad Mini 7 does not you don't have to do anything but if you're like me and you've used this thing continuously for 3 years you might need be eyeballing a battery update well go go pay to get your battery changed if you're happy with the specs in the mini6 I personally have not been happy uh like recently with the specs it's uh getting older the new games are coming out that it can't run um right like this iPad Mini 7 will be able to run Resident Evil 7 right uh it'll be able to run those AAA titles that Apple's been releasing for iPhone and iPad um it'll have access to Apple intelligence right I no one's really talking about what the spec update brings to this platform that wasn't there before you're going to get the new YouTube uh related um what is it called built-in uh systems right the a15 could not directly decode or whatever it is it's like Hardware decoding of YouTube I I I forget the spec but it's it's whatever junk YouTube uses uh they built that into the A7 so YouTube's going to run more efficiently uh so you'll get a better battery life watching YouTube videos for example or or certain streaming services like Netflix uses the same engine or whatever the name is escaping me but um games will run better B your so your battery life again will will be improved because of it uh hard Hardware accelerated raay tracing it's it is a 2-year jump and chipset but that chipset jump is significant in this particular device because of what it didn't have before and what it has now so I wouldn't call this it is a boring update as far as things go it is literally just a chipset and a and a small tweak to the camera um but it is still like evolutionary in a way that I appreciate as an iPad mini user who I I mean the the thing is inexpensive from the grand scheme uh grand scheme of things there's people out there that'll buy the new Macbook every 3 years um for $2,000 we're talking about four to uh5 to $800 for this one and so $200 a year you're getting uh basically a lease if you want to talk about it that way and now you have this much better chipset and a higher storage capacity that can run better games and and just perform better overall and I'm I bought that in a second as I I think I might establish every time I talk to you or or frankly even strangers in the street I am extraordinarily technical I am I am processor minded specification I wake up thinking specification so of course the question for me the one thing you have not covered is what color did you go for uh space gray I mean the colors are non-existent on these devices for some reason oh that's the only reason I'm not buying yeah yeah I'm not that iPad Air that released a few years ago was Peak color for iPad and they' never they've never returned to it at all yeah I don't mean to be def like defensive or defending this device I was just very surprised by the rhetoric I I I suppose I shouldn't be anymore but it's just people that I see that enjoyed the iPad Mini 6 were just utterly disappointed by this release and it it confused me because I like I was excited by this release it's just like finally I get to get a new battery again but on top of that all these new specs like this is great I fancied it the second I heard it was out and then I heard some of the complaints and I still fancied it so yeah I'm with you on that this episode is brought to you by Zach do zock do is a free app and website where you can search and compare highquality in network doctors choose the right one for your needs and click to instantly book an appointment we're talking about in network appointments with more than 100,000 Health Care Providers across every specialty from mental health to to dental health from ey care to skincare and much more if I were living in the states I would use Z and I don't fully understand why anyone wouldn't us friends have told me for instance how without things like Zach do it's incredibly hard to just find a doctor now it's not as if there aren't enough doctors but still finding one who is near you who provides the treatment you need and crucially who takes your insurance is startlingly complicated whereas with zdoc you know that they take your insurance because it tells you or you can can just have zck do only show you those doctors who do take your insurance cut that list down to doctors you can actually use and then you can have zck do show you ones in specific locations or with certain specialisms and every time zck do will also show you reviews from verified patients that means you get a feel for what any given doctor is like and and that's important you need a doctor that you feel comfortable discussing your medical needs with so zok is about finding the right doctor in every sense plus zok appointments happen fast typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking you can even score same day appointments so stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zocdoc.com slapple inssider to find and instantly book a toprated doctor today that Z6 excuse me I keep doing that that's zocdoc.com slapple inssider zck talk.com slapple inssider and thank you to Zach do for supporting the Apple Insider podcast but um you just we just talked then about colors and different iPads and things it looking reasonably likely now that this is the only iPad launch this month and in fact that there may not be the expected Apple event um but I don't know rumors do you trust them what do you think are we going to see an an M5 an M6 iPad Pro released with a press release next week or something like that it's interesting um I I apple is just kind of always doing their own thing and it wasn't two weeks ago that German was like yeah the October Apple event iPads Max you know the whole shebang and now we're talking about uh pretty much nothing yeah I I don't think it's going to be that uh Apple X press releases uh we with the M4 chipset if it's coming to MacBook uh air or MacBook Pro I don't think it's coming to air yet it be too short cycled they already did a short cycle for MacBook Air so if MacBook Pro was to get an M4 they might just do a press release for that because it's not like hugely different from M3 generation they just want to get off of that node uh where they're using that um gener that generation of a 3 nanometer they want to get away from that so they would quietly bump it up to M4 and it probably wouldn't it would be a chip change basically I I would expect and so I feel like they could easily get away with that in a press release um um redesigned Mac Mini could easily happen in press release I know people have said no way that you know something like that would get screen time didn't we say that and then uh Apple released what was it the redesign MacBook Air or something over there was something recent in the last couple years they did a press release that was just unheard of well didn't they do the iPads over uh press release like there there was something uh anyway that we were just like there's no way there's going to be an event for it and they just dropped it and it's just like oh okay yeah so never never cons never put Apple in a box that way they'll press release whatever the heck they want um I don't think there's going to be an event uh the earnings call is on Halloween uh so last year when they did the spooky event it was on a Tuesday and this the um earnings call was that Thursday so there they don't they're not allergic to doing two things in a row in a in a single week but uh we haven't heard anything yet and it would be uncharacteristic of Apple to wait this long I can't believe the spooky fast event was one year ago it feels so much longer and they've done so much since have they I think um they've released everything new except the Apple car I think and um well I know you know more about this than I do because we finally had ABS I think absolute proof nailing the coffin Apple card dead because of news this week isn't that right or am I overreaching here I feel like we're never going to stop talking about Apple car um because it it it's just it keeps it keeps coming up people just can't Mark Gman can't stop talking about Apple car I think more specifically but it's just earlier this year February we heard that potentially Apple car was disbanded and it seemed like it to be true because it kind of just disappeared we finally got signs from the outside regulation information that Apple's no longer uh asking like they let their licenses expire for autonomous testing in California um great so that that that is the shest sign yet the most real other than just some person in the newsletter saying that they stopped doing this this is the most real thing yet that we've seen that's just no it's just gone it's not happening uh confirmation and then on top of that we got the strangest story uh Wednesday evening of uh for some reason they really this this story needed to exist but uh I guess this is for investors who really like uh byd this Chinese company that makes uh autonomous electric or they're making electric vehicles anyway um and they're one of the big they're the biggest Electric Vehicle Manufacturer in China and they surpass Tesla briefly uh globally so they're a big deal and apple apparently worked with them on a battery uh approached them they approached uh Apple approached byd um nearly a decade ago went through years of partnership and Manufacturing these uh custom blade batteries that would be used for the Apple car then Apple just jump ship and said never mind we're not going to do this with byd and they shopped for other people uh to give them a battery until ultimately they discontinue the Apple car project so I don't understand the purpose of the story other than maybe stock market stuff but here it is well Apple I just separate thing I today as we record this today I read what I thought was a really interesting patent document about the Apple car who didn't say it was the Apple car of course it never says the Apple car I don't think this one even alluded to vehicle but all the nice drawings for it were of a car dashboard and what it would have been like as you connected your iPhone to it or the error messages if something was going wrong some of them were a bit na actually so you but overall the display and how it would have done it would it look really nice and somebody has PID or is actually applying to get a patent on it even though their work will never see the light of day anywhere else it's interesting I mean I people talk about the Apple cars if it's dead and I I think the best way to say it is is all of this research and all of this investment $10 billion investment over 10 years it didn't go to nothing um there's definitely still maybe a small team maybe three people at Apple still working on Automotive things it's just no there's no longer a quote unquote project Titan at least right now they're carrying on prob there's probably a portion of their um like John Gan Andrea's uh artificial intelligence and machine learning division probably still has a couple of people dedicated to developing self-driving autonomy systems um like that that kind of research absolutely still happening at Apple it's just no longer there's no longer greater a project Titan would have a product in mind saying Apple car will eventually be made and release that that going away doesn't mean this type of research stops so I expect we'll still see patents for vehicle stuff for years to come and apple could eventually revisit a car in the future I should well two I should say actually the SEC the pent I read right after that one unbelievably I thought was actually for the 2013 Mac Pro so they're still trying to do things for that 11 years later they're going to fix it well yes um I laughed when you said about three people for it because I just had this image suddenly of somewhere in Apple Park of three witches Around The Cauldron saying when we shall three shall meet again with a self-driving car anyway yes okay I really sad actually that the licenses were dropped cuz it feels like yeah that really is the end of it yes that's it or end of an error perhaps cuz they didn't get anywhere but you made the point then and I think you've said it before that the research doesn't you know know vanish that it goes where and I think we've even seen examples of how car research affected the Apple Vision Pro so nothing goes to waste at Apple except air power operating system development for the vehicle absolutely influenced the real-time operating system necessary to run Apple Vision Pro on top of uh the artificial intelligence uh systems bearing into Apple's research for its Apple intelligence which brings us to a new topic Apple put out a research paper explaining that uh large language models basically it's so funny um because I've been hammering this drum for a while and apple just comes out and says it artifici there's nothing intelligent about artificial intelligence it doesn't think it cannot reason and Apple has has submitted a research paper saying exactly that AI cannot reason it cannot make decisions it is just taking information rolling it around and spitting it back out in a predictive format that is it it's patent recognition 7 million people have followed the word marry with Christmas so let's suggest Christmas as the next thing that's kind of at the heart of it isn't it a friends who would be a gassed at my saying that but well that's more uh machine learning actually like the generative stuff this technology is real right like this isn't it isn't like we just painted it artific official intelligence over machine learning large language models and generative uh uh I always get it wrong GPT generative pre- trained Transformers uh they are real technology um that do things and they're good at what they do but the way we've applied them uh with information for instance they're not good at it right they're good at taking a bunch of data and spitting out information but that doesn't mean that information's going to be accurate or correct so um Google for instance has made I think a terrible terrible mistake switching to a uh AI right for its search results so that the top half of the page before you have to scroll under the fold before you even get to a real answer is taken over by what could generally be just a giant lie um I SE you've seen these screenshots glue on Pizza that was old one but more recently um I've seen people show the AI result directly contradicting the top result uh in search stuff like that it's Google search has gotten so bad that it's just wrong most of the time because it's this these things can't reason they you're just taking information and giving you basically what you said rephrase differently and apple kind of going into detail here is important and uh this goes back to my discussion of apple and how they've approached AI being so different from open Ai and Google and I think that's an important distinction everyone needs to make when they're discussing these things I'm thinking of moving back to alter Vista or ask Jes do you remember either of those yes no okay no yes no yes I I was around for sg's and uh briefly Al Vista but I can actually picture the moment I first heard of Google it's in the BBC Newsroom and one of the senior editors recommended it and said something like I know it's a silly name but Google is the thing to try next and and we all did and then it immediately became normal and we did that see these systems are not immune like they're we came up with a cute name for it hallucination um even Apple systems can so right now in 18.1 beta you cannot generate anything from nothing um the only technology Apple's introduced so far uh that will generate something from nothing is uh image playgrounds but that isn't available yet and even then the control over that is very very tight um we'll have to see how that all works but so I can't speak to that but right now you can't generate anything from nothing so you have to write your paper before you use Apple's AI on it and I was testing the different features I've been using proofread to get grammatical checks and you know is the comma here is the spelling right all these things every now and then pop up great love that that has been very useful in my work but I never really looked at the other tools too much because I I don't need to make my text more professional I don't need to make it more friendly or generate a bulleted list or a table from the information that I've written uh those are are interesting use cases but they do not apply to me but I was looking at the rewrite button uh had no idea what it did so I selected a paragraph and told it to rewrite it and it did what it said it took the information in that paragraph and presented it differently that's it but I tested on something that I had laying around in my notes app where I mentioned working on my time in the Navy mentioned working on uh lcu and the uh rewrite function for some reason decided it was going to expand that abbreviation oh okay given that I don't know what lcu stands for I'm still dreading what you're going to say it thought it stood for liquid cooled no what should it be it had context right um because I was talking about the Navy and ships oh landing craft something yeah land landing craft unit so but you can reason and and land at what what makes sense for those letters it said life cycle unit and I had no I had no reason to expand that abbreviation but it did and it took a wild guess and it got it incredibly wrong um and that was from an on device model provided by Apple that has no connection to the internet no no outside information it just went for it and it hallucinated now Apple has never claimed it is immune from hallucinations I I I haven't made that claim either it's just you have to pay attention when you're using these Technologies it does happen now proofread is stupid simple enough that I can't see how it would hallucinate like it's going to hallucinate a comma somewhere it shouldn't be like I I just don't really understand how that would happen so I feel like that's pretty safeguarded but like the rewrite function um is the first place I've seen a real possibility of hallucination being uh available to Apple's devices I'm actually quite shocked by that because of course I didn't think Apple would be immune to this but I just took it for granted it would be on the the bigger things when uh Siri reached out to chat GPT or other stuff like that that that's where problems would occur not the whole point of being built in you know is it's using your information so I'm simultaneously writing two reviews right now that are heavily focused on uh the 18.1 release and I'm so I'm discussing Apple intelligence and one of the things that I bring up is just it's important to know how these things are framed and I think a lot of Apple intelligent not Apple intelligence but artificial intelligence a lot of this AI hype is because of bad marketing um I think we've been told a big lie not the big lie but a big lie of what this stuff is supposed to do what how it's it's going to change the world it's going to change our life it's going to affect us in so many ways it's going to change how you see photography it's going to change like all these just grandiose promises and then when they ship it on uh Google pixel one of their main features is adding yourself to a photo or transcribing a phone call um right like I I I've been going through different companies AI like demonstration pages and it's just mundane simple and uh straightforward stuff honestly none of this stuff feels Out Of Reach to Apple either they just haven't done it yet on a lot of these other companies so when I hear apple is behind maybe they're behind and the number featur they've released but it doesn't feel like their technolog is incapable of doing what these other companies are doing um maybe they might do it a little worse but we have no way of knowing until they create the technology to do a comparison uh I I'm I'm very interested in comparing how the image generation works but anyway just wanted to say yeah people's expectations are so high that everything looks bad except when they see something magical like uh an essay being generated from scratch or or an image that never existed before being created and that's like a wow factor I guess and apple doesn't have any of those wow factors purposefully and I I honestly applaud them for that they really restrain themselves here and I think that's important in this okay I'm I'm split here because I think in a way um I may even have been right I I remember months ago thinking that or saying hopefully saying that this would all shake out and AI will become just like um spellchecking is or something something that we use to do what we need to do and get on with it and we forget and we will stop calling it in artificial intelligence because it won't seem like a special thing it's just ordinary the general population so the reason why I bring this up is uh the general population has no idea what this stuff is for I've even asked nerds I've went to discords where people are discussing these things and asked what is what is supposed to be happening with AI what what am I like what am I missing and I just never get a real answer it's always you know either they throw marketing at me uh from Google or something like that but I never really get a real answer I haven't been able to get anyone to really other than agreeing with my statements I've never had I haven't had anyone Step Up on midon or anything and say this is what AI like this is what you're missing it's the and I think the general population is starting to feel this fatigue it's AI fatigue and realizing oh it's is just all a bunch of nonsense this is crypto all over again this is nfts all over again uh this is self-driving cars or whatever like this is all just they're promising promising promising and it doesn't it just doesn't exist the things they're talking about just do not exist and I everyone's going to just move on um and I think Apple taking a this approach will help save them because everyone's going to look at Google and open Ai and say yeah remember those guys promising all this nonsense like I feel like they're going to a little burned of course memories are short they're going to move on from it and Google something tomorrow anyway but uh I don't think it's going to damage any of these Brands specifically I just I just believe that Apple made the right choice and not trying to overhype it in the way these other companies did because in reality it is just honestly kind of boring and that's okay I I recognize this is a hot button topic uh for you but um I also recogniz actually this is your episode but I have another hot button topic of yours that I would just like to throw into the mix there um Carol surface has left apple and hand on heart I'm sorry to say I feel very rude saying this I'd never heard of her before but she is clearly this is another case of someone leaves Apple so apple is doomed isn't that the way the argument goes it's it's it's a lot of fun because um I brought up the meme last week uh Vince McMahon um and it it just it's like clockwork of course because as as soon as this happens uh another one leaves and another thing happens and now Mark G's writing about how things are just so bad at Apple that people are just leaving after one year or 20 months I suppose and we have no idea why Carol left um we have no idea where she's going if she's retiring I don't know anything about this person uh there's there's no information this is from an internal memo from Tim Cook that leaked I suppose fine I should say I feel this is we know so little about this person is that why um she's leaving uh hasn't made an impact the speculation that I've seen um has been outside hirers are always the shortest terms at Apple um especially espe the higher the position that they take from the outside uh John Gian Andrea is one of the few exceptions of to this rule hiring from outside Apple to high executive positions that report to Tim Cook these are highly demanding incredible jobs and maybe maybe Carol just got her F and wanted to move on something else right we should say just if not only for the record because obviously yeah app started podcast the the podcast of record uh Carol surface was the chief people officer and I'm you I'm going to admit to a failure of knowledge here I thought Dria Brien was uh Chief people it turn out of course she was retail and people but now she's going to be retailing people again so maybe so this is this is another speculation maybe Apple created this uh person this this uh job thinking that they would need it and then decided nope actually we don't need it uh thank you for your service that that could happened too it happens in a lot of big companies what uh yes you was in charge of people and Retail was her title before and then she became just retail and now she's people and Retail again the chief people officer is not just HR but that is a significant portion of it you have to imagine HR for such a large company is is a huge part of Apple but Carol was also in charge of uh recruiting for the college programs that Apple has um a lot of these like interfacing elements around Apple so literally dealing with people was her job in any aspect of the thing I I think drro O'Brien was in charge of something like 77,000 people um when she was uh Leading the People division so it's an incredible position that reports directly to Tim Cook so who knows why or how or whatever I don't think it spells any Doom and Gloom for Apple but I I just I do find the alarmist attitude every time someone leaves apple is just fun I I don't I don't think this one actually to be to be fair to Mark Gman uh this one wasn't uh as alarmist as maybe Dan Rio or someone else leaving Apple it was just kind of a h it's kind of weird they're leaving after 20 months kind of situation they didn't take too hard of a stance on it but it's still just man every week There's next we'll hear that the janitor uh decided that they didn't like cleaning Apple Park anymore and had to depart well it's a big place have you try going around that with a mop U I did just try to cheat and look up Carol a Services LinkedIn page but she hasn't even added Apple onto it yet so I don't think she's a strong LinkedIn fanatic really but you know I was I would have been there with the information we don't know where she's gone to and I thought that would give us a clue if I mean cuz there are bigger companies than Apple to go to you can see that could easily poacher for something else but yeah okay so V cany it up all that's what we're saying yeah I guess we'll go full circle here uh we'll open at the close that's a Harry Potter reference uh Apple Vision Pro back at the ending here Apple could be uh is rumored to and that's just I I hate these rumors honestly because they're we've I've literally said this two days on the on the show like last week and then this rumor I don't know if they're listening to me but a $2,000 headset sometime in 2026 what no way well Apple's known for close to Haring its device product prices after a year it doesn't keep selling things for 10 years at exactly the same price or anything like that so I'm chucked at your suspicion no no no it's not suspicion it's just we have literally been talking about this since the Apple Pro launched uh the two the $2,000 is model that is uh lower pric the Apple Vision not pro Apple vision air whatever you want to call it has always been coming we just our time range has shrunk a little bit uh I think in February we were talking about well it could be between 26 and 27 now we're looking more at fall 26 which I think is reasonable um and that will get apple Vision Pro in more hands more of these games more of these all the stuff that Apple's launching over the past year and into the next year cuz remember 26 is two years from now so they have a lot of time to release more content and get stuff out there uh I think this is a reasonable timeline to see prices cut especially if they cut out unnecessary features they've now learned how people are using these devices and it makes total sense that's why I didn't even need a rumor we've just been saying this from the start they're going to Target something around $2,000 the price of a MacBook Pro and it's going to be around the 26 27 range and now we have a rumor kind of reiterating that so cool I'm glad to hear it I actually wrote a story this week about various surgeons who are using Apple V Pro and they were asked about the cost of it and they they're saying so normally we use these monitors and displays and all this you see that monitor $2,000 so uh what was the phrase it's um Apple Vision Pro is like dust on the budget they CAU it or something medical dust the the story was interesting because uh the surgeons were complaining about injury uh during work yeah and I think people forget cuz I saw some comments around it people forget repeated stress injury and stuff like that is no joke um RSI anywhere you have a joint in your body or anything that you're doing if you're looking up all the time you're going to strain yourself you're going to your muscles are not built for that your neck isn't built for that you're going to overtime imagine you're a surgeon you've spent half of your life in education and now uh bending over books right and now you're bending the opposite direction uh looking up at monitors uh constantly craning your head down to the person up to the monitor down to the person for 30 years that is incredibly debilitating to those joints muscles whatever you want to say that part of your body is just getting overstrained overused and it's murderous and they retire early because it's so painful uh after a time that they can't lift their head anymore properly without straining themselves so Apple Vision Pro interestingly lets them just look down at what they're doing and keep their head down it's a weight on their head but it's a different muscle group uh carrying that headset and as it gets lighter I can only imagine this getting better so it's just it was just an interesting story to me I like the application here I love the things you don't expect the details that are real life for some people but that never crossed your mind uh for it and like it's a whole new actually slightly humanized surgeons for me although there's got to be some who are thinking why wasn't this around years ago and others who are thinking I was going to retire and now I can't so it's a div I love when a product comes out and it has an unexpected use that in retrospect is very obvious for it which I think happened with the Apple watch and health and stuff and now seems to be happening with Vision Pro so all these people are saying there's no killer app for Vision Pro I think they're right but there might be lots of little killer apps uh and it all adds up Apple apparently is also working on its next product in the vision lineup um rumors of course uh arriving as meta continues to talk about their glasses and Orion and everything fine uh this this one is of course also from German he he's just a machine just turning out all these rumors and things but uh We've we've heard this before uh I think the first Apple glasses rumor uh suggested something like 2019 release so here we are 2027 Apple glasses and airpods with cameras I suppose fine I who who knows what we'll we'll see where things end up but 27 feels too soon unless Apple does something like meta which I don't think they're going to do um I think Apple really wants pass through glass they don't want projectors but we'll just have to see yeah interesting What will what will make me uh buy one um my I'm assuming uh I had a lot more time than you to consider uh Apple Vision Pro because I'm in the UK it took months and months to get here and I kind the original um desire I suppose it just kind of burnt off by the time it finally came so I went in to the demo reasonably uh reasonably even you know it's just going in for research I wasn't thinking of getting out my checkbook or whatever for it but I also wasn't unwilling to do it and I came away thinking this is deeply impressive but I just wouldn't use it all day even though you were very persuasive about how much you use it it wasn't there for me so is it just price that stops me getting it or is there actually just not a a slot for it in my life I mean to be to be fair my usefulness in it um comes and goes because I my job requires me to do different things all the time Apple Vision Pro is great for if I if if right now if all I'm doing is coming into to work and covering news and writing long form about informative topics I can be Invision Pro the whole shift right but the minute I need to go Hands-On with something uh check out a part of a battery or uh play with a keyboard or uh use a game controller for my iPhone that I'm testing for review uh leave the anything like that just the Vision Pro has to come off so or I'm I've been writing a lot this past couple months I've been writing a lot about iPhones and iPads and iPad OS and all of these things so the Vision Pro on my head restricts me from writing about these things because I need to be using those devices so the use cases come and go I'm using it right now as I have been for the podcast because I found it's an excellent podcast uh tool to have access to information in front of me without having a screen to reverb off of that's perfect use case for appion pro the entertainment sides of things the game all these things are still useful uh but as long as I'm writing and doing tasks that require me to be hands on with something The Vision Pro is usually off that doesn't mean I'm not using it at nearly as much it's just the opportunities for me to use it are fewer because of just the nature of my work but as I clear off my work list and get back to more I can do everything on the Vision Pro I put it back on it's just the nature of the device until it gets the pass through gets to the point where it's like having my eyes then I could see myself using a game controller or testing an object with the Vision Pro in my head but something about it I can compute inside of it I can see my room in it I can walk around in it fine but actually like looking at a game controller in my hand something is lost from uh between the real world and what's seen in the Vision Pro because it is still just a display so that is I wouldn't call it a limitation that's just the reality of the device that's I watching I me I've had a 45 minute demonstration they let it go much further than the 20 30 minutes while they blocked and I didn't notice that time because I was so absorbed by it but every time I looked through it to the Apple demonstrated person for me it didn't even feel like I was wearing glasses it felt perfectly you know real to me so I hadn't appreciated a resolution issue now you said it I remember Janna Stern when she was reading recipes or something in her uh Wall Street Journal piece she would say there was a certain point after which you couldn't read because the resolution wasn't high enough I'd forgotten that so you're finding it's not quite real world no it's not that uh it it it's more detail um I I wouldn't say resolution uh as much as I know those words might be synonymous in some way but it's it's different so in you're testing this thing in an Apple Store and you're looking at a person a person is large they're in front of you um and you're not you're not necessarily studying the details of their face or their clothing they're just oh a person I can see that great like you can see their face and they're they're as detailed as real life you don't even feel like you're wearing glasses absolutely the brightly lit store uh doesn't really deal with you're not really running into noise or anything like that either in my office where um there's dark wood paneling that I hate uh causing the room to feel darker anyway The Vision Pro doesn't really behave well in that lighting uh to the point where it's fine I can do what I need to do with the Vision Pro on but if I am studying an object or holding an object or looking at something in my hands you're losing all the small details it just you it you can you feel like you're not quite seeing the the thing correctly I I don't know how else to explain it it's just you feel like you need to take the headset off to get a proper look at it I don't know how else to say it but otherwise it's fine like the if you're you're walking around in the world everything is crisp and clear as real life but you if you hold something up in front of your face you're looking at it through a screen that it you just immediately feel the difference on that and it's it's just a maybe the limitation of the technology what we're looking at maybe uh once you get the closer you get to an object or the smaller details just fall away because of how it's reproducing this stuff who knows know but um it I expect it'll improve in future models it's just one of those minute details you don't really think about like I don't want to examine this keyboard or try to describe the details of it looking through the Vision Pro I want to see it with my own eyes I'm not surprised when you said that about the Apple Store and course the bright colors uh of course you right but I hadn't thought about wood so if I were one of these extremely boring British Men Who had a gentleman's club that they go to in London I couldn't sit there and shut out them boring me all the time with an apple Vision Pro it just wouldn't work we going to have to quit the club aren't I that I haven't joined okay all right interesting it's an interesting product I I still stand by everything I've said before about it like if you have the money and are at all interested go for it it's going to be years before a new product in this line comes William if you're interested in it go on eBay and see who's selling one for like a few a few hundred off there's it's it's fine it's it's not this isn't this I would never say don't go by Vision Pro if you have the ability to go for it but at the same time if you enjoy the workflow you have there's no reason to drastically uproot it Apple Vision Pro is only going to get better these devices there's more apps more Technologies more things coming to it and in a year or two's time this is going to be the way to go this is going I can see this being a platform for the future it's just right now we are still in what you would call early days and if you were allergic to that type of early adoption issues then stay away from it okay noted I'm not checking my bank balance so speak I'm not I don't know why you thought that no it's just it's it's an interesting product and I like that Apple's doing it I I don't understand a lot just like with the iPad mini don't understand a lot of the Ric around it other than people just wanting to be angry about something I genuinely like apple Vision Pro I like the content being made for I am happy with my purchase we're almost a year in uh I did cancel my Apple Care on it because it was $27 a month and I decided you know what I'm not going to break this thing and if I do that's on me uh so I went ahead and canceled my Apple Care Plus on it but it's it's fine I I I really I really do enjoy this it's definitely its own thing um I never expected I never went in there's a part of me wondering if it was possible before because I hadn't used it yet but now after using it I realized this isn't going to happen and I'll say it here I I haven't since owning it expected that this was going to take over my workflows this was going to replace my iPad workflow this is going to replace my um MacBook entirely my MacBook can be augmented into it which it's still I honestly haven't used my MacBook for anything other than podcasting in months but it's it's just it's one of those things that I really enjoy it it's obvious an obvious sign of the future and I will continue using it and and hoping for improvements and looking for new apps and and this kind of Interest hasn't waned at all but I can definitely acknowledge that it cannot be my only Computing device in my home and that's fine it doesn't need to be and for my part I think I'm just going to record going oh just play it in every time yep whenever you fail to accept the wonder that is the Macos you know I love the Mac I just don't need one yeah all right okay fine m m everybody needs a Mac okay if Apple could just get it so I can podcast for my iPad or something I don't know I I don't I don't know what the hold up is but it's fine I have a Mac for it but on that note I think that's the show for the week I thank everyone for listening and I would like to thank the sponsors once again Zach talk but hey this isn't it it's not over if you are a premium subscriber we're going to get into Apple Insider Plus or we're going to talk about uh Apple but instead of saying what we dislike we're going to talk a little bit about what we like and why we really care about this company in the first place what what do they do that just works for us and William where can people find you on the internet uh I think this is actually something that might come up in aider plus but I'm doing a new project on YouTube as part of my 58 Keys channel so uh 58 Keys 58 keys on uh YouTube is a good spot for me but otherwise just for a William ATA insider.com is always the best for me and same for you or similar for you I would imagine yes so you can definitely find me um on Masson I'm most active there I uh I help manage social media at up Insider so I have Twitter open and through the Apple Insider client uh uh account and I've seen I I saw a couple of comments at one point come through like uh where's Wes why isn't he active on his account I just do not use x I don't use Twitter um you can email me if you don't have midon you can email me that's that's pretty much the answer but um you can always find our email addresses at the top of every article I'm at Wes appleinsider.com but simply yes email I love getting them uh we've got a few these past few weeks it's been really fun uh I enjoy helping answer questions or talking about the show there's also always talking about nonsense on mastedon about Apple technology and before we go I did want to mention our podcasts you can give us a review on Apple podcasts I always love seeing those as well so if you don't want to talk to us there you can talk to us through the most probably inefficient way possible but we'll still see it we just can't reply the Apple podcast app I've asked before please keep leaving us good reviews I I'll mention them here uh we got two five-star reviews this week uh best podcast on Apple tech from deban 3175 this show is both informative and very listenable for fans of all types you'll walk away with a greater appreciation of Apple products a better understanding of their capabilities and an honest review of what works well and where there's still room for improvement so it's the only Tech podcast I listen to entirely each week so that was a very nice review thank you and we also got uh TMC 10003 they say they love the show big fan of Apple Insider they love the show and always look forward to new episodes on Fridays do you know I'm pretty sure I met TMC one4 in a pub once you don't think they're related at all to they did they did mention that the uh podcast feed was messed up at one point and they got ads and no after show that was not us uh I think we've not me we might have mentioned it in the um in a feed somewhere but we'll mention it here there was an issue with apple podcast uh anytime you see anything weird like that please email us cuz uh we catch it usually and fix it and it requires you to delete the episode and redownload it but um Apple podcast is a finicky beast and can sometimes just decide to give you the wrong show so to speak I can actually I can tell you more about that one apple was it looks to us like apple was updating on its back end for it that just happened to be at the time so the ad free episode just kept processing and processing for days and never completed uh which you know that sounds like bad Workman uh blaming his Tools in this case I'm usually the bad Workman and usually it's my tools it's me it's got it wrong but this one time it was Apple so uh give us that Apple did it this time the rest is me in fact only you w only you are flawless in this whole thing no uh but yes thank you for those reviews excellent as always we happy to see more and you know you don't have to leave the nice ones if you leave a bad one you know we take critique seriously we we like seeing what people have to say so please go give us a review and uh let us know what you think of the show and I think that is it we'll talk to you guys next weekhello and welcome to the Apple Insider podcast I'm your host Wesley Hillyard and I joined once again by William Gallagher our sponsor this week is Zach talk and if you are a paid premium subscriber you get apple Insider plus and this week we're going to be talking about you know why we like apple in the first place we've had a similar topic to this before but this is going to be in direct contrast to our last week's uh topic which was things we dislike about Apple so we kind of wanted to counterbalance that a little bit of more of why do we even support this company in the first place is it their ethics is it their technology a little bit of both there's a lot going on here so pay a little bit become premium subscriber get the adree feed and you'll get to hear that conversation but uh how you doing William you can't ask William any questions you don't have permission to open that file sorry I've been getting that error running a shortcut my Mac and my shortcut telling me I cannot open my own file because I don't have permission and you know I know we're going to say good things to Bad Apple but that bad one has been driving me spare for the last month or so and I've just had it four times today for no apparent reason I'm just going end rant otherwise I'm fine how are you I think we should be able to change those prompts to open with sorry Dave I'm afraid yes I can't do that uh everything uh everything's going good here I'm excited I ordered an iPad Mini 7 but we'll get oh really oh oh I want to hear about that yes yes but before before we talk about anything I I realized last week we mentioned submerged elevated and the Super Bowl uh 4minute special arrived on Vision Pro but I hadn't had a chance to watch them yet well I have now seen them and uh yeah I just wanted to discuss a little bit about them before we move on great can I just remind you I cannot see it cuz I haven't got an app Vision Pro so you know don't make this sound too good right I I have wondered if Apple would ever and I I guess they wouldn't uh consider maybe releasing a 2d version of these things because they would work in two Dimensions they would they're flat uh if you it would lose some of the spectacle but it's not like some secret uh thing that it's just un unknown to the two-dimensional plane you can only see it in 3D I um I'm just I'm sure this is all very promo but as we go further down this Rabbit Hole of developing content for Vision Pro will there be a day where a full length movie is released and the only way you can watch it is on an Apple Vision Pro that would be an interesting thing but it reminds me too though 3D movies exist right you don't if you don't own a 3D TV there's no way to watch it in 3D but that doesn't take away from the fact that that movie exists and people can watch it uh but I guess because the medium is so different Apple really wants to promote that hey Apple Vision Pro this is the only way you get this content but we'll see how they handle that strategy going forward yeah I would like to say that every time 3D films come out and like it's a cyclical fad every 10 20 years or something uh they're always a bit rubbish really and then they go away again what i' heard about submerged in particular is that this really does make use of 180 degree views of thing so it seems like it's very 3D so the director was the first person who actually seemed to know what they were doing in um Vision Pro space as far as spatial video the other things that we've watched on Apple Vision Pro fine um I mean there's a few of them that are breathtaking uh the wild with the the Rhinos was a lot of fun uh they did a good job picking their camera angles that those were very deliberate um the adventure with the person climb walking across the tight RPP those were good deliberate camera angles they felt correct but this was the first uh dramatic story where the camera kind of not only had to change multiple times throughout it also had to move in certain scenes and they just handled it brilliantly the framing and everything was just right and there's a lot of shots you would never see on a movie screen maybe not unless it was a very specific kind of film right I it reminds me of severance anyone not Severance uh s word uh Silo uh no no no um servant slow horses oh so go through all the s's so it reminds me a lot of Serv and might Shyamalan for some reason and I and I and I like this deliberateness he spent a lot of time like servant would actually make a really good Vision Pro um film actually he'd have to just go record the entire show go ahead M9 Shan go ahead it's excellent show go watch it but um there's a lot of just tight closeup almost uncomfortable angles of people of of the characters talking into the camera not into the camera but they're it's they're performing inches away from it feels like from the camera and you're just getting every pore of their face as they're reacting to what's going on around them these tight shots would work excellently in Vision Pro and that's what they did in submerged you you get a a lot of the guy walking around and then get real enclose to where the light and Shadow the the detail in his skin is just pronounced or you're behind his head and uh they use bokeh excellently telling you focus here and you're looking at him looking around but you can also look around him and see in the background that there's someone sleeping in their in their bed or whatever it's it's just really well done the Direction is awesome the storytelling is is great it might be a little slow Pac but I think they had to they wanted do to make it as long as they could uh so there are moments where the characters are just standing and looking around as noises are happening um just kind of getting giving that creep Factor giving you that claustrophobia of being underwater in a submarine they captured everything well and um Mike actually wrote about this being a Subs sailor I was in the Navy too but I was surface Fleet I've been on submarines and being on a submarine was enough for me to say I don't want to be on a submarine so I chose not to I I I'm conflicted here something because new format new platform you want it to use that you want it to be for that platform not just some sort of 3D ified thing but also I don't want to be in the middle of a story and think oh that's a nice shot I want to be completely Carried Away by the story for it um oh I mean of course I was I was observing these things purposefully but uh it was immersive like you you could definitely settle into this and just watch it of course okay um you're saying that uh they wanted to make it longer ordinary the way you make that longer as you write it longer uh did the story feel like um was it the right length for the story they told the pacing was excellent um yeah everything worked it it they did a great job the first half is essentially this uh man wakes up in his rack and he just kind of is contemplative of sounds and honestly I've had the same feeling um waking up on a carrier in the middle of the night uh all the lights are off the red lights are on uh if uh in in and when you're out at Sea red is the shortest distance uh of light travel so all the lights are red at night to to limit your sight distance on the water so uh when you get out of bed all the lights are red uh in the hallways and everything like that and um everyone's asleep so you hear every sound and the waves Outside The Creeks the crawls and Taps uh if you're being pinged by a sonar you can hear the pinging off of the hole it's kind of wild there's a lot of noise uh associated with being out to sea and they they and being underwater on top of that of course you're going to hear even more uh sound so they captured that perfectly and he's looking around and hearing these noises they notice someone's missing from their rack so he goes and starts walking the hallways and uh just kind of like looking around like where is this guy and uh he finds him in in the galley of course uh stealing some food um some very lovely looking uh girkins I love I love gerkens but um they he's like dude live a little eat some food and uh they have a conversation and this conversation through the Vision Pro excellent um I don't want to go into every moment it's just that opening bit worked for what it was it was nice and slow it gave you a setpiece it let you see everything everything everywhere that was going to be happening um let you kind of get to know the character a little bit he seems to be on the skittish side and all of that stuff and then suddenly bam they're hit by something and battle stations are called and everything thing comes alive and I have been in these situations before not under attack um so to speak uh I've never been on a vessel that was under attack we've been threatened multiple times but nothing this drastic uh they' hit been hit by a depth charge is What's happen in the story even though I don't think anyone explicitly says it um anyway they run to their Battle Stations and just I'm having flashbacks to being on being on fire detail and having to run out of my bed go and put on a fire suit and get ready to go fight a fire or uh just things things or having to run to the emergency generators and go through the startup sequence and being ready to connect to the Electrical uh circuits at any moment because one of the reactors might have had to shut down right like this kind of feeling this just suddenness out of the middle of nowhere it's completely peacefully dark and quiet to everyone's running and yelling at each other orders to get things done and then then so they obviously had some uh military advisers and then finally the get to a uh torpedo room and it just how they're relaying orders and speaking to each other it's all it was all very well done and uh ultimately the ship starts flooding they have to escape so it's just a very good tight 17 minutes and they fill it out very well it it's just all the little points and I can see more content being made for this platform in this way see I listen to you and I'm thinking how similar our backgrounds are I mean I I'm flashing back to paper cuts uh sprained wrists typing it's not as glorious as it sounds I promise okay it's glory is not the word I was thinking of for frightening was the word yeah exactly it's uh it was it was a job and engineering and its own right can be wild I've I've been in a um the steam side of the plant as we refer to it and have a steamline rupture occur I wasn't in the room thankfully I was in the electrical room but um once the temperatures dropped uh because it was a secondary steam steamline rupture so it wasn't too dangerous uh it just allowed a lot of steam to get into the room and it was essentially raining uh inside of the compartment and it's kind of kind of crazy uh to see something like that well one quick question about all this cuz this is important is it left is this film left in such a way that they could be submerged to the sequel no no no I mean it's clearly just a short story and they had a lot of fun and I I I I like how they filmed it um unless uh Tom Hanks shows up and rescues them or something I don't think there's going to be any more from these characters um okay just excellent all the way around I I would love to see more short films like this but I'm I'm very interested now let's get to Let's push it up to 30 minutes what about an hour hour and a half you right can we get James Cameron to uh film an avatar something silly okay I was with you to that minute but all right joke no seriously like I want I want to see what a full length film looks like here and I can only imagine it costing $20 billion cuz this feels like something that is going to be very difficult to create on a larger scale it would have to be the only there's films that come to mind and that we can move on from this topic cuz I know I went into a lot of detail here but it was it was very enjoyable if you have a Vision Pro please go watch it or uh maybe see if an Apple Store employee will let you sit there for 17 minutes and watch a film um oh I never thought of that yes excellent oh I might ask that okay think I like films that are I mean the before Trilogy Before Sunrise Before Sunset all that stuff I can't imagine Apple from filming one of those in this format because as a you know it wouldn't really have the promotional spectacle that it sounds like this did things things come to mind um I could see exmachina if anyone's ever seen that film it's uh it it could easily take place inside of Vision Pro because you're basically following this character room to room and it's a lot of discussion based stuff it's a it's a a kind of a thriller where uh a a Mark Zuckerberg esque person living out in the middle of nowhere invites a man to come and see his creation and it's a uh like a Android like creation that uh he's trying to get it to past uh like Turing all that stuff like anyway it's an interaction he just he has conversations with it but the special effects are very ramped up so it's very just a very beautifully shot film as well but I could see that style of film being Apple vision Pro I there's so many things like this like I would love a thriller in Vision Pro or could you imagine a short like alien film right like alien is an alien um yes uh Ridley Scott uh could you imagine that kind of claustrophobic inside of the the hull of the spaceship hearing the creeks and crawls around you something's moving the ventilation shaft something jumps down behind you right like that kind of presentation inside of Vision Pro there there's so many ways you could use this platform I'm very excited for it and I'm glad that we're finally seeing the stuff uh come out elevated great just wanted to mention that was that was cool and then go ahead sorry I no I i' forgotten about the other two I was so into this one but it just occurs to me that there you are enjoying this wraparound fullframe absolutely everything absorbs absorbing situation screens in your face and then you went and bought the smallest iPad possible I'm interested in that decision making yeah so yeah we can move on I just wanted to mention the Super Bowl thing cool but that when when they it's a sport when they nail how to get that to happen live or near live it is going to change the game literally like people that people will buy Vision Pro just to watch sports it is phenomenal being on the goal side and or in the end zone I suppose being football um and seeing them kick a field goal right like there's just so much to this that is excellent excellent excellent but it's also four minutes it took them like six months to make it's Madness but moving on uh Vision Pro I'm still enjoying it it's actually really great I just wish uh we could get the ball rolling a little bit faster iPad Mini out of nowhere uh just happened to roll out of bed the other day and see oh look there's an iPad Mini available it's start of a song isn't it well woke up this morning d d du there's a new iPad I'll buy it okay a short song then was it as instant for you as that exists by yeah um I kind of waited around because I wanted to see what would pop up because uh inevitably companies have deals and different things um Apple's Apple's tradein option was actually kind of mediocre for my existing iPad mini and I have no idea what to do with this thing right I have the iPad Mini 6 256 gigs I think it was uh $799 at uh at that price at the at launch uh 3 years ago so I was just like I can't sell this thing the battery is exhausted like I I use it continuously and anytime it's off the charger if I'm actively using it it will die within about four or five hours it's just it is completely ramped to exhaus I mean I'll look after it if if you need somewhere to keep it but um well Best Buy popped up and luckily they offered $120 more than Apple did so apple is offering something like 230 Best Buy said we'll give you 350 for it so I went ahead and did the trade in and got the 512 gigabyte uh so um iPad do it start at$ 499 so Best Buy is offering a tradeing of how much did you say 350 yes but you would be trading from a 256 to a 128 if you want that route yeah cuz the M mine was the higher storage tier um that's a big Trading in value it is completely I forgive you for not just sending it to me like any good person would okay right um so um if you don't mind me asking how much does that t the new uh iPad cost something around 88 something after tax 8:30 um and then the 350 will come off and I owe something around the 400s again good good deal all around I'm I'm happy with it I was going I was ready to just go buy it so I'm happy that I got that trade in value that was worth something cuz selling it I would have felt bad selling it to someone because I would have said go get a new battery put in immediately because it's it's worthless without a new battery or I would have had to have put a battery in something like that like it just I didn't feel right selling it in the condition it was in like it's meant on the externally it's just that battery is just completely murdered um it's just I remember when the iPad Mini first came out it was very clearly the iPad for people who couldn't afford an iPad and then that changed and I think it changed with the six it became this really good iPad but also the price yeah the price was suddenly very expensive uh for it's like they realized the size was a boon not a uh whatever the opposite of a boon is um and it sounds like it's continued that now but you've managed to get a good deal on it so I wanted to discuss a little bit about the discourse around this device uh I don't know I I think the world's just incredibly cynical and maybe it's always been cynical and I'm I'm always just kind of I shouldn't be shocked by it anymore uh I mean especially being in the Apple space for as long as I have been I've seen these kinds of reactions before but I was kind of taking a back just seeing everyone saying wow this is a wasted upgrade I guess we'll wait till 2027 for a real iPad update and it's just like I get it but also what the PE what people were expecting and this is where my confusion comes in is is like an iPad Mini Pro they were like where's the promotion did you address jelly scrolling why is the USB port still slow uh all these things well they did update the USB port it went from 5 to 10 gigabits per second but Touch ID still on the button why isn't it you know why why didn't we move any of these specs along it's like okay in 2021 when they updated the iPad Mini they said here's the iPad Air but smaller and to be fair at the time it was very surprising they put that Year's iPhone chip into the iPad Mini so that was a difference and it was a chipset better than the iPad Air at the time before the iPad Air got an M1 um I think the M1 iPad Air came almost immediately after that or at the same time um but anyway like it was a surprising update uh overall it it was just a good redesign wellmade just almost unexpected desirable but unexpected then it took 3 years to up update and now we're getting last year's chipset the A7 Pro um and it appears to be uh the Lesser version of that maybe the cores are a little little shuffled or whatever but it's not the a18 or whatever that the iPhone 16 has um and that's pretty much all that changed and the things that changed with it are the things that the A7 Pro brings like Wi-Fi 6E Bluetooth 5.3 um nothing else changed uh overall fine it was a chip bump the displays the same the design is the same but were people really expecting some major redesign this this is the redesigned iPad it it just got redesigned so unless they dramatically changed the display technology and and shrunk the bezels nothing else was going to change about this device uh it apparently it supports Apple intelligence so does that mean it has more um Ram than the Ala model it's it's just the A7 Pro these are all features due to A7 Pro coming to the iPad I I think it has the same amount of Ram uh which I think the minimum is uh what was it 8 gigs for Apple intelligence and iPads have been coming with that for a while maybe they bumped maybe I'm maybe I'm Incorrect and it was six gigs before but it's whatever it is it's it's what it needs for Apple intelligence so that's fine but and and we get the hardware accelerated Ray tracing and everything else the a15 uh A7 Pro brings with it uh the very first thing I heard was ooh iPad Mini and then the second thing I heard was ah uh bined chips or something like um uh whatever didn't work for the iPhone has been bunged in this instead uh is that fair well so the thing the thing that's that's annoying here is okay Apple none of this is surprising this update is not surprising I don't again I don't know why people are reacting the way they are they took the chips they're no longer using for the iPhone and right they've made cheaper right they have them in bulk they're sitting in warehouses and they're sticking them in the iPad that's it uh that it makes that's what Apple does that's what Tim Cooks Apple does they they take the supply chain and make it efficient to a fault and shove things down stream and the iPad Mini I guess Apple decided doesn't need an M series chip doesn't and they're probably already constrained as it is on building those a18 Pros so why uh limit the iPhone Market where they're selling everyone that they make already um and try and and and dwindle that Supply when they need to be ramping up that Supply so it's especially with the nanometer technologies that we're dealing with and everything it just it makes sense that they went with last year's chipset they went with the bare minimum to get apple intelligence um for this iPad which I'm curious uh how that is going to feel on this on this particular device because it is not interacted with with a mouse and keyboard but it's also not an iPhone so what in between is it going to play but I I personally was not disappointed by these specs the the resolution of the display didn't need to get better it could have shifted to OLED I suppose um it could have increase the refresh rate but uh like those are obvious future upgrades and then in the Next Generation but for me the iPad Mini 6 was already a perfect device like it's a five out of five 100% its lifespan every the daily use of it reading books playing these smaller games uh interacting with social media like its use cases were built like it they were it was it is the best iPad as an iPad that I've used in a long time because of its size and use cases so uh are you an apple pencil user yes well I guess I don't really draw but I I do use it so did you um I resume the new app mini supports the new uh apple pencil did you already have that yes I have the apple pencil Pro and up until now I've had to use both two different Apple pencils so now I'll be able to switch to just having one right yes but I I just want to I just want to say like guys if you're happy with your iPad Mini 6 the iPad Mini 7 does not you don't have to do anything but if you're like me and you've used this thing continuously for 3 years you might need be eyeballing a battery update well go go pay to get your battery changed if you're happy with the specs in the mini6 I personally have not been happy uh like recently with the specs it's uh getting older the new games are coming out that it can't run um right like this iPad Mini 7 will be able to run Resident Evil 7 right uh it'll be able to run those AAA titles that Apple's been releasing for iPhone and iPad um it'll have access to Apple intelligence right I no one's really talking about what the spec update brings to this platform that wasn't there before you're going to get the new YouTube uh related um what is it called built-in uh systems right the a15 could not directly decode or whatever it is it's like Hardware decoding of YouTube I I I forget the spec but it's it's whatever junk YouTube uses uh they built that into the A7 so YouTube's going to run more efficiently uh so you'll get a better battery life watching YouTube videos for example or or certain streaming services like Netflix uses the same engine or whatever the name is escaping me but um games will run better B your so your battery life again will will be improved because of it uh hard Hardware accelerated raay tracing it's it is a 2-year jump and chipset but that chipset jump is significant in this particular device because of what it didn't have before and what it has now so I wouldn't call this it is a boring update as far as things go it is literally just a chipset and a and a small tweak to the camera um but it is still like evolutionary in a way that I appreciate as an iPad mini user who I I mean the the thing is inexpensive from the grand scheme uh grand scheme of things there's people out there that'll buy the new Macbook every 3 years um for $2,000 we're talking about four to uh5 to $800 for this one and so $200 a year you're getting uh basically a lease if you want to talk about it that way and now you have this much better chipset and a higher storage capacity that can run better games and and just perform better overall and I'm I bought that in a second as I I think I might establish every time I talk to you or or frankly even strangers in the street I am extraordinarily technical I am I am processor minded specification I wake up thinking specification so of course the question for me the one thing you have not covered is what color did you go for uh space gray I mean the colors are non-existent on these devices for some reason oh that's the only reason I'm not buying yeah yeah I'm not that iPad Air that released a few years ago was Peak color for iPad and they' never they've never returned to it at all yeah I don't mean to be def like defensive or defending this device I was just very surprised by the rhetoric I I I suppose I shouldn't be anymore but it's just people that I see that enjoyed the iPad Mini 6 were just utterly disappointed by this release and it it confused me because I like I was excited by this release it's just like finally I get to get a new battery again but on top of that all these new specs like this is great I fancied it the second I heard it was out and then I heard some of the complaints and I still fancied it so yeah I'm with you on that this episode is brought to you by Zach do zock do is a free app and website where you can search and compare highquality in network doctors choose the right one for your needs and click to instantly book an appointment we're talking about in network appointments with more than 100,000 Health Care Providers across every specialty from mental health to to dental health from ey care to skincare and much more if I were living in the states I would use Z and I don't fully understand why anyone wouldn't us friends have told me for instance how without things like Zach do it's incredibly hard to just find a doctor now it's not as if there aren't enough doctors but still finding one who is near you who provides the treatment you need and crucially who takes your insurance is startlingly complicated whereas with zdoc you know that they take your insurance because it tells you or you can can just have zck do only show you those doctors who do take your insurance cut that list down to doctors you can actually use and then you can have zck do show you ones in specific locations or with certain specialisms and every time zck do will also show you reviews from verified patients that means you get a feel for what any given doctor is like and and that's important you need a doctor that you feel comfortable discussing your medical needs with so zok is about finding the right doctor in every sense plus zok appointments happen fast typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking you can even score same day appointments so stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zocdoc.com slapple inssider to find and instantly book a toprated doctor today that Z6 excuse me I keep doing that that's zocdoc.com slapple inssider zck talk.com slapple inssider and thank you to Zach do for supporting the Apple Insider podcast but um you just we just talked then about colors and different iPads and things it looking reasonably likely now that this is the only iPad launch this month and in fact that there may not be the expected Apple event um but I don't know rumors do you trust them what do you think are we going to see an an M5 an M6 iPad Pro released with a press release next week or something like that it's interesting um I I apple is just kind of always doing their own thing and it wasn't two weeks ago that German was like yeah the October Apple event iPads Max you know the whole shebang and now we're talking about uh pretty much nothing yeah I I don't think it's going to be that uh Apple X press releases uh we with the M4 chipset if it's coming to MacBook uh air or MacBook Pro I don't think it's coming to air yet it be too short cycled they already did a short cycle for MacBook Air so if MacBook Pro was to get an M4 they might just do a press release for that because it's not like hugely different from M3 generation they just want to get off of that node uh where they're using that um gener that generation of a 3 nanometer they want to get away from that so they would quietly bump it up to M4 and it probably wouldn't it would be a chip change basically I I would expect and so I feel like they could easily get away with that in a press release um um redesigned Mac Mini could easily happen in press release I know people have said no way that you know something like that would get screen time didn't we say that and then uh Apple released what was it the redesign MacBook Air or something over there was something recent in the last couple years they did a press release that was just unheard of well didn't they do the iPads over uh press release like there there was something uh anyway that we were just like there's no way there's going to be an event for it and they just dropped it and it's just like oh okay yeah so never never cons never put Apple in a box that way they'll press release whatever the heck they want um I don't think there's going to be an event uh the earnings call is on Halloween uh so last year when they did the spooky event it was on a Tuesday and this the um earnings call was that Thursday so there they don't they're not allergic to doing two things in a row in a in a single week but uh we haven't heard anything yet and it would be uncharacteristic of Apple to wait this long I can't believe the spooky fast event was one year ago it feels so much longer and they've done so much since have they I think um they've released everything new except the Apple car I think and um well I know you know more about this than I do because we finally had ABS I think absolute proof nailing the coffin Apple card dead because of news this week isn't that right or am I overreaching here I feel like we're never going to stop talking about Apple car um because it it it's just it keeps it keeps coming up people just can't Mark Gman can't stop talking about Apple car I think more specifically but it's just earlier this year February we heard that potentially Apple car was disbanded and it seemed like it to be true because it kind of just disappeared we finally got signs from the outside regulation information that Apple's no longer uh asking like they let their licenses expire for autonomous testing in California um great so that that that is the shest sign yet the most real other than just some person in the newsletter saying that they stopped doing this this is the most real thing yet that we've seen that's just no it's just gone it's not happening uh confirmation and then on top of that we got the strangest story uh Wednesday evening of uh for some reason they really this this story needed to exist but uh I guess this is for investors who really like uh byd this Chinese company that makes uh autonomous electric or they're making electric vehicles anyway um and they're one of the big they're the biggest Electric Vehicle Manufacturer in China and they surpass Tesla briefly uh globally so they're a big deal and apple apparently worked with them on a battery uh approached them they approached uh Apple approached byd um nearly a decade ago went through years of partnership and Manufacturing these uh custom blade batteries that would be used for the Apple car then Apple just jump ship and said never mind we're not going to do this with byd and they shopped for other people uh to give them a battery until ultimately they discontinue the Apple car project so I don't understand the purpose of the story other than maybe stock market stuff but here it is well Apple I just separate thing I today as we record this today I read what I thought was a really interesting patent document about the Apple car who didn't say it was the Apple car of course it never says the Apple car I don't think this one even alluded to vehicle but all the nice drawings for it were of a car dashboard and what it would have been like as you connected your iPhone to it or the error messages if something was going wrong some of them were a bit na actually so you but overall the display and how it would have done it would it look really nice and somebody has PID or is actually applying to get a patent on it even though their work will never see the light of day anywhere else it's interesting I mean I people talk about the Apple cars if it's dead and I I think the best way to say it is is all of this research and all of this investment $10 billion investment over 10 years it didn't go to nothing um there's definitely still maybe a small team maybe three people at Apple still working on Automotive things it's just no there's no longer a quote unquote project Titan at least right now they're carrying on prob there's probably a portion of their um like John Gan Andrea's uh artificial intelligence and machine learning division probably still has a couple of people dedicated to developing self-driving autonomy systems um like that that kind of research absolutely still happening at Apple it's just no longer there's no longer greater a project Titan would have a product in mind saying Apple car will eventually be made and release that that going away doesn't mean this type of research stops so I expect we'll still see patents for vehicle stuff for years to come and apple could eventually revisit a car in the future I should well two I should say actually the SEC the pent I read right after that one unbelievably I thought was actually for the 2013 Mac Pro so they're still trying to do things for that 11 years later they're going to fix it well yes um I laughed when you said about three people for it because I just had this image suddenly of somewhere in Apple Park of three witches Around The Cauldron saying when we shall three shall meet again with a self-driving car anyway yes okay I really sad actually that the licenses were dropped cuz it feels like yeah that really is the end of it yes that's it or end of an error perhaps cuz they didn't get anywhere but you made the point then and I think you've said it before that the research doesn't you know know vanish that it goes where and I think we've even seen examples of how car research affected the Apple Vision Pro so nothing goes to waste at Apple except air power operating system development for the vehicle absolutely influenced the real-time operating system necessary to run Apple Vision Pro on top of uh the artificial intelligence uh systems bearing into Apple's research for its Apple intelligence which brings us to a new topic Apple put out a research paper explaining that uh large language models basically it's so funny um because I've been hammering this drum for a while and apple just comes out and says it artifici there's nothing intelligent about artificial intelligence it doesn't think it cannot reason and Apple has has submitted a research paper saying exactly that AI cannot reason it cannot make decisions it is just taking information rolling it around and spitting it back out in a predictive format that is it it's patent recognition 7 million people have followed the word marry with Christmas so let's suggest Christmas as the next thing that's kind of at the heart of it isn't it a friends who would be a gassed at my saying that but well that's more uh machine learning actually like the generative stuff this technology is real right like this isn't it isn't like we just painted it artific official intelligence over machine learning large language models and generative uh uh I always get it wrong GPT generative pre- trained Transformers uh they are real technology um that do things and they're good at what they do but the way we've applied them uh with information for instance they're not good at it right they're good at taking a bunch of data and spitting out information but that doesn't mean that information's going to be accurate or correct so um Google for instance has made I think a terrible terrible mistake switching to a uh AI right for its search results so that the top half of the page before you have to scroll under the fold before you even get to a real answer is taken over by what could generally be just a giant lie um I SE you've seen these screenshots glue on Pizza that was old one but more recently um I've seen people show the AI result directly contradicting the top result uh in search stuff like that it's Google search has gotten so bad that it's just wrong most of the time because it's this these things can't reason they you're just taking information and giving you basically what you said rephrase differently and apple kind of going into detail here is important and uh this goes back to my discussion of apple and how they've approached AI being so different from open Ai and Google and I think that's an important distinction everyone needs to make when they're discussing these things I'm thinking of moving back to alter Vista or ask Jes do you remember either of those yes no okay no yes no yes I I was around for sg's and uh briefly Al Vista but I can actually picture the moment I first heard of Google it's in the BBC Newsroom and one of the senior editors recommended it and said something like I know it's a silly name but Google is the thing to try next and and we all did and then it immediately became normal and we did that see these systems are not immune like they're we came up with a cute name for it hallucination um even Apple systems can so right now in 18.1 beta you cannot generate anything from nothing um the only technology Apple's introduced so far uh that will generate something from nothing is uh image playgrounds but that isn't available yet and even then the control over that is very very tight um we'll have to see how that all works but so I can't speak to that but right now you can't generate anything from nothing so you have to write your paper before you use Apple's AI on it and I was testing the different features I've been using proofread to get grammatical checks and you know is the comma here is the spelling right all these things every now and then pop up great love that that has been very useful in my work but I never really looked at the other tools too much because I I don't need to make my text more professional I don't need to make it more friendly or generate a bulleted list or a table from the information that I've written uh those are are interesting use cases but they do not apply to me but I was looking at the rewrite button uh had no idea what it did so I selected a paragraph and told it to rewrite it and it did what it said it took the information in that paragraph and presented it differently that's it but I tested on something that I had laying around in my notes app where I mentioned working on my time in the Navy mentioned working on uh lcu and the uh rewrite function for some reason decided it was going to expand that abbreviation oh okay given that I don't know what lcu stands for I'm still dreading what you're going to say it thought it stood for liquid cooled no what should it be it had context right um because I was talking about the Navy and ships oh landing craft something yeah land landing craft unit so but you can reason and and land at what what makes sense for those letters it said life cycle unit and I had no I had no reason to expand that abbreviation but it did and it took a wild guess and it got it incredibly wrong um and that was from an on device model provided by Apple that has no connection to the internet no no outside information it just went for it and it hallucinated now Apple has never claimed it is immune from hallucinations I I I haven't made that claim either it's just you have to pay attention when you're using these Technologies it does happen now proofread is stupid simple enough that I can't see how it would hallucinate like it's going to hallucinate a comma somewhere it shouldn't be like I I just don't really understand how that would happen so I feel like that's pretty safeguarded but like the rewrite function um is the first place I've seen a real possibility of hallucination being uh available to Apple's devices I'm actually quite shocked by that because of course I didn't think Apple would be immune to this but I just took it for granted it would be on the the bigger things when uh Siri reached out to chat GPT or other stuff like that that that's where problems would occur not the whole point of being built in you know is it's using your information so I'm simultaneously writing two reviews right now that are heavily focused on uh the 18.1 release and I'm so I'm discussing Apple intelligence and one of the things that I bring up is just it's important to know how these things are framed and I think a lot of Apple intelligent not Apple intelligence but artificial intelligence a lot of this AI hype is because of bad marketing um I think we've been told a big lie not the big lie but a big lie of what this stuff is supposed to do what how it's it's going to change the world it's going to change our life it's going to affect us in so many ways it's going to change how you see photography it's going to change like all these just grandiose promises and then when they ship it on uh Google pixel one of their main features is adding yourself to a photo or transcribing a phone call um right like I I I've been going through different companies AI like demonstration pages and it's just mundane simple and uh straightforward stuff honestly none of this stuff feels Out Of Reach to Apple either they just haven't done it yet on a lot of these other companies so when I hear apple is behind maybe they're behind and the number featur they've released but it doesn't feel like their technolog is incapable of doing what these other companies are doing um maybe they might do it a little worse but we have no way of knowing until they create the technology to do a comparison uh I I'm I'm very interested in comparing how the image generation works but anyway just wanted to say yeah people's expectations are so high that everything looks bad except when they see something magical like uh an essay being generated from scratch or or an image that never existed before being created and that's like a wow factor I guess and apple doesn't have any of those wow factors purposefully and I I honestly applaud them for that they really restrain themselves here and I think that's important in this okay I'm I'm split here because I think in a way um I may even have been right I I remember months ago thinking that or saying hopefully saying that this would all shake out and AI will become just like um spellchecking is or something something that we use to do what we need to do and get on with it and we forget and we will stop calling it in artificial intelligence because it won't seem like a special thing it's just ordinary the general population so the reason why I bring this up is uh the general population has no idea what this stuff is for I've even asked nerds I've went to discords where people are discussing these things and asked what is what is supposed to be happening with AI what what am I like what am I missing and I just never get a real answer it's always you know either they throw marketing at me uh from Google or something like that but I never really get a real answer I haven't been able to get anyone to really other than agreeing with my statements I've never had I haven't had anyone Step Up on midon or anything and say this is what AI like this is what you're missing it's the and I think the general population is starting to feel this fatigue it's AI fatigue and realizing oh it's is just all a bunch of nonsense this is crypto all over again this is nfts all over again uh this is self-driving cars or whatever like this is all just they're promising promising promising and it doesn't it just doesn't exist the things they're talking about just do not exist and I everyone's going to just move on um and I think Apple taking a this approach will help save them because everyone's going to look at Google and open Ai and say yeah remember those guys promising all this nonsense like I feel like they're going to a little burned of course memories are short they're going to move on from it and Google something tomorrow anyway but uh I don't think it's going to damage any of these Brands specifically I just I just believe that Apple made the right choice and not trying to overhype it in the way these other companies did because in reality it is just honestly kind of boring and that's okay I I recognize this is a hot button topic uh for you but um I also recogniz actually this is your episode but I have another hot button topic of yours that I would just like to throw into the mix there um Carol surface has left apple and hand on heart I'm sorry to say I feel very rude saying this I'd never heard of her before but she is clearly this is another case of someone leaves Apple so apple is doomed isn't that the way the argument goes it's it's it's a lot of fun because um I brought up the meme last week uh Vince McMahon um and it it just it's like clockwork of course because as as soon as this happens uh another one leaves and another thing happens and now Mark G's writing about how things are just so bad at Apple that people are just leaving after one year or 20 months I suppose and we have no idea why Carol left um we have no idea where she's going if she's retiring I don't know anything about this person uh there's there's no information this is from an internal memo from Tim Cook that leaked I suppose fine I should say I feel this is we know so little about this person is that why um she's leaving uh hasn't made an impact the speculation that I've seen um has been outside hirers are always the shortest terms at Apple um especially espe the higher the position that they take from the outside uh John Gian Andrea is one of the few exceptions of to this rule hiring from outside Apple to high executive positions that report to Tim Cook these are highly demanding incredible jobs and maybe maybe Carol just got her F and wanted to move on something else right we should say just if not only for the record because obviously yeah app started podcast the the podcast of record uh Carol surface was the chief people officer and I'm you I'm going to admit to a failure of knowledge here I thought Dria Brien was uh Chief people it turn out of course she was retail and people but now she's going to be retailing people again so maybe so this is this is another speculation maybe Apple created this uh person this this uh job thinking that they would need it and then decided nope actually we don't need it uh thank you for your service that that could happened too it happens in a lot of big companies what uh yes you was in charge of people and Retail was her title before and then she became just retail and now she's people and Retail again the chief people officer is not just HR but that is a significant portion of it you have to imagine HR for such a large company is is a huge part of Apple but Carol was also in charge of uh recruiting for the college programs that Apple has um a lot of these like interfacing elements around Apple so literally dealing with people was her job in any aspect of the thing I I think drro O'Brien was in charge of something like 77,000 people um when she was uh Leading the People division so it's an incredible position that reports directly to Tim Cook so who knows why or how or whatever I don't think it spells any Doom and Gloom for Apple but I I just I do find the alarmist attitude every time someone leaves apple is just fun I I don't I don't think this one actually to be to be fair to Mark Gman uh this one wasn't uh as alarmist as maybe Dan Rio or someone else leaving Apple it was just kind of a h it's kind of weird they're leaving after 20 months kind of situation they didn't take too hard of a stance on it but it's still just man every week There's next we'll hear that the janitor uh decided that they didn't like cleaning Apple Park anymore and had to depart well it's a big place have you try going around that with a mop U I did just try to cheat and look up Carol a Services LinkedIn page but she hasn't even added Apple onto it yet so I don't think she's a strong LinkedIn fanatic really but you know I was I would have been there with the information we don't know where she's gone to and I thought that would give us a clue if I mean cuz there are bigger companies than Apple to go to you can see that could easily poacher for something else but yeah okay so V cany it up all that's what we're saying yeah I guess we'll go full circle here uh we'll open at the close that's a Harry Potter reference uh Apple Vision Pro back at the ending here Apple could be uh is rumored to and that's just I I hate these rumors honestly because they're we've I've literally said this two days on the on the show like last week and then this rumor I don't know if they're listening to me but a $2,000 headset sometime in 2026 what no way well Apple's known for close to Haring its device product prices after a year it doesn't keep selling things for 10 years at exactly the same price or anything like that so I'm chucked at your suspicion no no no it's not suspicion it's just we have literally been talking about this since the Apple Pro launched uh the two the $2,000 is model that is uh lower pric the Apple Vision not pro Apple vision air whatever you want to call it has always been coming we just our time range has shrunk a little bit uh I think in February we were talking about well it could be between 26 and 27 now we're looking more at fall 26 which I think is reasonable um and that will get apple Vision Pro in more hands more of these games more of these all the stuff that Apple's launching over the past year and into the next year cuz remember 26 is two years from now so they have a lot of time to release more content and get stuff out there uh I think this is a reasonable timeline to see prices cut especially if they cut out unnecessary features they've now learned how people are using these devices and it makes total sense that's why I didn't even need a rumor we've just been saying this from the start they're going to Target something around $2,000 the price of a MacBook Pro and it's going to be around the 26 27 range and now we have a rumor kind of reiterating that so cool I'm glad to hear it I actually wrote a story this week about various surgeons who are using Apple V Pro and they were asked about the cost of it and they they're saying so normally we use these monitors and displays and all this you see that monitor $2,000 so uh what was the phrase it's um Apple Vision Pro is like dust on the budget they CAU it or something medical dust the the story was interesting because uh the surgeons were complaining about injury uh during work yeah and I think people forget cuz I saw some comments around it people forget repeated stress injury and stuff like that is no joke um RSI anywhere you have a joint in your body or anything that you're doing if you're looking up all the time you're going to strain yourself you're going to your muscles are not built for that your neck isn't built for that you're going to overtime imagine you're a surgeon you've spent half of your life in education and now uh bending over books right and now you're bending the opposite direction uh looking up at monitors uh constantly craning your head down to the person up to the monitor down to the person for 30 years that is incredibly debilitating to those joints muscles whatever you want to say that part of your body is just getting overstrained overused and it's murderous and they retire early because it's so painful uh after a time that they can't lift their head anymore properly without straining themselves so Apple Vision Pro interestingly lets them just look down at what they're doing and keep their head down it's a weight on their head but it's a different muscle group uh carrying that headset and as it gets lighter I can only imagine this getting better so it's just it was just an interesting story to me I like the application here I love the things you don't expect the details that are real life for some people but that never crossed your mind uh for it and like it's a whole new actually slightly humanized surgeons for me although there's got to be some who are thinking why wasn't this around years ago and others who are thinking I was going to retire and now I can't so it's a div I love when a product comes out and it has an unexpected use that in retrospect is very obvious for it which I think happened with the Apple watch and health and stuff and now seems to be happening with Vision Pro so all these people are saying there's no killer app for Vision Pro I think they're right but there might be lots of little killer apps uh and it all adds up Apple apparently is also working on its next product in the vision lineup um rumors of course uh arriving as meta continues to talk about their glasses and Orion and everything fine uh this this one is of course also from German he he's just a machine just turning out all these rumors and things but uh We've we've heard this before uh I think the first Apple glasses rumor uh suggested something like 2019 release so here we are 2027 Apple glasses and airpods with cameras I suppose fine I who who knows what we'll we'll see where things end up but 27 feels too soon unless Apple does something like meta which I don't think they're going to do um I think Apple really wants pass through glass they don't want projectors but we'll just have to see yeah interesting What will what will make me uh buy one um my I'm assuming uh I had a lot more time than you to consider uh Apple Vision Pro because I'm in the UK it took months and months to get here and I kind the original um desire I suppose it just kind of burnt off by the time it finally came so I went in to the demo reasonably uh reasonably even you know it's just going in for research I wasn't thinking of getting out my checkbook or whatever for it but I also wasn't unwilling to do it and I came away thinking this is deeply impressive but I just wouldn't use it all day even though you were very persuasive about how much you use it it wasn't there for me so is it just price that stops me getting it or is there actually just not a a slot for it in my life I mean to be to be fair my usefulness in it um comes and goes because I my job requires me to do different things all the time Apple Vision Pro is great for if I if if right now if all I'm doing is coming into to work and covering news and writing long form about informative topics I can be Invision Pro the whole shift right but the minute I need to go Hands-On with something uh check out a part of a battery or uh play with a keyboard or uh use a game controller for my iPhone that I'm testing for review uh leave the anything like that just the Vision Pro has to come off so or I'm I've been writing a lot this past couple months I've been writing a lot about iPhones and iPads and iPad OS and all of these things so the Vision Pro on my head restricts me from writing about these things because I need to be using those devices so the use cases come and go I'm using it right now as I have been for the podcast because I found it's an excellent podcast uh tool to have access to information in front of me without having a screen to reverb off of that's perfect use case for appion pro the entertainment sides of things the game all these things are still useful uh but as long as I'm writing and doing tasks that require me to be hands on with something The Vision Pro is usually off that doesn't mean I'm not using it at nearly as much it's just the opportunities for me to use it are fewer because of just the nature of my work but as I clear off my work list and get back to more I can do everything on the Vision Pro I put it back on it's just the nature of the device until it gets the pass through gets to the point where it's like having my eyes then I could see myself using a game controller or testing an object with the Vision Pro in my head but something about it I can compute inside of it I can see my room in it I can walk around in it fine but actually like looking at a game controller in my hand something is lost from uh between the real world and what's seen in the Vision Pro because it is still just a display so that is I wouldn't call it a limitation that's just the reality of the device that's I watching I me I've had a 45 minute demonstration they let it go much further than the 20 30 minutes while they blocked and I didn't notice that time because I was so absorbed by it but every time I looked through it to the Apple demonstrated person for me it didn't even feel like I was wearing glasses it felt perfectly you know real to me so I hadn't appreciated a resolution issue now you said it I remember Janna Stern when she was reading recipes or something in her uh Wall Street Journal piece she would say there was a certain point after which you couldn't read because the resolution wasn't high enough I'd forgotten that so you're finding it's not quite real world no it's not that uh it it it's more detail um I I wouldn't say resolution uh as much as I know those words might be synonymous in some way but it's it's different so in you're testing this thing in an Apple Store and you're looking at a person a person is large they're in front of you um and you're not you're not necessarily studying the details of their face or their clothing they're just oh a person I can see that great like you can see their face and they're they're as detailed as real life you don't even feel like you're wearing glasses absolutely the brightly lit store uh doesn't really deal with you're not really running into noise or anything like that either in my office where um there's dark wood paneling that I hate uh causing the room to feel darker anyway The Vision Pro doesn't really behave well in that lighting uh to the point where it's fine I can do what I need to do with the Vision Pro on but if I am studying an object or holding an object or looking at something in my hands you're losing all the small details it just you it you can you feel like you're not quite seeing the the thing correctly I I don't know how else to explain it it's just you feel like you need to take the headset off to get a proper look at it I don't know how else to say it but otherwise it's fine like the if you're you're walking around in the world everything is crisp and clear as real life but you if you hold something up in front of your face you're looking at it through a screen that it you just immediately feel the difference on that and it's it's just a maybe the limitation of the technology what we're looking at maybe uh once you get the closer you get to an object or the smaller details just fall away because of how it's reproducing this stuff who knows know but um it I expect it'll improve in future models it's just one of those minute details you don't really think about like I don't want to examine this keyboard or try to describe the details of it looking through the Vision Pro I want to see it with my own eyes I'm not surprised when you said that about the Apple Store and course the bright colors uh of course you right but I hadn't thought about wood so if I were one of these extremely boring British Men Who had a gentleman's club that they go to in London I couldn't sit there and shut out them boring me all the time with an apple Vision Pro it just wouldn't work we going to have to quit the club aren't I that I haven't joined okay all right interesting it's an interesting product I I still stand by everything I've said before about it like if you have the money and are at all interested go for it it's going to be years before a new product in this line comes William if you're interested in it go on eBay and see who's selling one for like a few a few hundred off there's it's it's fine it's it's not this isn't this I would never say don't go by Vision Pro if you have the ability to go for it but at the same time if you enjoy the workflow you have there's no reason to drastically uproot it Apple Vision Pro is only going to get better these devices there's more apps more Technologies more things coming to it and in a year or two's time this is going to be the way to go this is going I can see this being a platform for the future it's just right now we are still in what you would call early days and if you were allergic to that type of early adoption issues then stay away from it okay noted I'm not checking my bank balance so speak I'm not I don't know why you thought that no it's just it's it's an interesting product and I like that Apple's doing it I I don't understand a lot just like with the iPad mini don't understand a lot of the Ric around it other than people just wanting to be angry about something I genuinely like apple Vision Pro I like the content being made for I am happy with my purchase we're almost a year in uh I did cancel my Apple Care on it because it was $27 a month and I decided you know what I'm not going to break this thing and if I do that's on me uh so I went ahead and canceled my Apple Care Plus on it but it's it's fine I I I really I really do enjoy this it's definitely its own thing um I never expected I never went in there's a part of me wondering if it was possible before because I hadn't used it yet but now after using it I realized this isn't going to happen and I'll say it here I I haven't since owning it expected that this was going to take over my workflows this was going to replace my iPad workflow this is going to replace my um MacBook entirely my MacBook can be augmented into it which it's still I honestly haven't used my MacBook for anything other than podcasting in months but it's it's just it's one of those things that I really enjoy it it's obvious an obvious sign of the future and I will continue using it and and hoping for improvements and looking for new apps and and this kind of Interest hasn't waned at all but I can definitely acknowledge that it cannot be my only Computing device in my home and that's fine it doesn't need to be and for my part I think I'm just going to record going oh just play it in every time yep whenever you fail to accept the wonder that is the Macos you know I love the Mac I just don't need one yeah all right okay fine m m everybody needs a Mac okay if Apple could just get it so I can podcast for my iPad or something I don't know I I don't I don't know what the hold up is but it's fine I have a Mac for it but on that note I think that's the show for the week I thank everyone for listening and I would like to thank the sponsors once again Zach talk but hey this isn't it it's not over if you are a premium subscriber we're going to get into Apple Insider Plus or we're going to talk about uh Apple but instead of saying what we dislike we're going to talk a little bit about what we like and why we really care about this company in the first place what what do they do that just works for us and William where can people find you on the internet uh I think this is actually something that might come up in aider plus but I'm doing a new project on YouTube as part of my 58 Keys channel so uh 58 Keys 58 keys on uh YouTube is a good spot for me but otherwise just for a William ATA insider.com is always the best for me and same for you or similar for you I would imagine yes so you can definitely find me um on Masson I'm most active there I uh I help manage social media at up Insider so I have Twitter open and through the Apple Insider client uh uh account and I've seen I I saw a couple of comments at one point come through like uh where's Wes why isn't he active on his account I just do not use x I don't use Twitter um you can email me if you don't have midon you can email me that's that's pretty much the answer but um you can always find our email addresses at the top of every article I'm at Wes appleinsider.com but simply yes email I love getting them uh we've got a few these past few weeks it's been really fun uh I enjoy helping answer questions or talking about the show there's also always talking about nonsense on mastedon about Apple technology and before we go I did want to mention our podcasts you can give us a review on Apple podcasts I always love seeing those as well so if you don't want to talk to us there you can talk to us through the most probably inefficient way possible but we'll still see it we just can't reply the Apple podcast app I've asked before please keep leaving us good reviews I I'll mention them here uh we got two five-star reviews this week uh best podcast on Apple tech from deban 3175 this show is both informative and very listenable for fans of all types you'll walk away with a greater appreciation of Apple products a better understanding of their capabilities and an honest review of what works well and where there's still room for improvement so it's the only Tech podcast I listen to entirely each week so that was a very nice review thank you and we also got uh TMC 10003 they say they love the show big fan of Apple Insider they love the show and always look forward to new episodes on Fridays do you know I'm pretty sure I met TMC one4 in a pub once you don't think they're related at all to they did they did mention that the uh podcast feed was messed up at one point and they got ads and no after show that was not us uh I think we've not me we might have mentioned it in the um in a feed somewhere but we'll mention it here there was an issue with apple podcast uh anytime you see anything weird like that please email us cuz uh we catch it usually and fix it and it requires you to delete the episode and redownload it but um Apple podcast is a finicky beast and can sometimes just decide to give you the wrong show so to speak I can actually I can tell you more about that one apple was it looks to us like apple was updating on its back end for it that just happened to be at the time so the ad free episode just kept processing and processing for days and never completed uh which you know that sounds like bad Workman uh blaming his Tools in this case I'm usually the bad Workman and usually it's my tools it's me it's got it wrong but this one time it was Apple so uh give us that Apple did it this time the rest is me in fact only you w only you are flawless in this whole thing no uh but yes thank you for those reviews excellent as always we happy to see more and you know you don't have to leave the nice ones if you leave a bad one you know we take critique seriously we we like seeing what people have to say so please go give us a review and uh let us know what you think of the show and I think that is it we'll talk to you guys next week\n"