A Conversation About Vision Pro and Upcoming iPhone Release

At least that I can follow that yeah but it was a nice thing to hear about um especially if I don't upgrade to the iPhone 16 because as you know we've heard from Barkley's Bank the people who would be the people who would know this there isn't going to be anything special about the iPhone 16 at all I believe they have that report prepared every year I I think it actually ships it's just they change the number and it's the same report every year oh I wonder if it's automated with send later and there's a macro that just updates the number before it goes yeah okay right in in 12,000 years the aliens will visit Earth and find a working computer and the article at the top of the screen will be from Barclay's automated system because they forgot to turn it off yes and it'll say the iPhone 175,000 is is not going to be worth it this year skip it it's not but uh that is I believe a good show William do you have anything to add before we drop off no I just I'm surprised again and again every time you talk about I think there something else to ask you about Vision Pro I hope you don't mind me constantly asking this stuff Oh no you're fine it's just it's exciting isn't it a whole new platform A Whole New World for all of this and um yeah I'm very tempted by it mostly from you uh if if anyone has any questions speaking of if anyone has any questions about Vision Pro um after a few weeks of use we're coming up on a month soon of having the device uh I'm going to be writing something about it so if you have any questions about Vision Pro productivity apps what have you how it works what what annoys me about it because there are things I am annoyed by believe it or not um you know reach out on mcadon Twitter email what have you I'd be happy to uh either talk to you there or include it in my writeup that I'm working on currently um but yes as we approach a month it's still an interesting product I am starting to shift my office around it I'm starting to think about workflows and I'm excited to see what developers do with it but um there's still a lot to come to discuss about this device uh but thankfully as maybe you noticed by this episode today we only spent about 7 minutes on Vision Pro so we are dialing it back a little bit guys you can breathe easy it is still the Apple Insider podcast it is not the Vision Pro Insider podcast but that would be a fun one to make it would wouldn't it yes all right let's talk about that okay but yeah for now I'll shut up asking you maybe next week all right so you can find me on Macedon mostly I am active there uh if I see you ping me on Twitter I'll reply but I not guaranteed to see you uh but Mason is the best place to find me William where can they find you online well I noticed the other week Mike wther was on and he said uh basically Apple Insider an email and I realized yeah I love email via my Apple Insider address but I also have a YouTube channel I am more on Twitter and I don't fully know why really but yes I can be found on Twitter as w gallager i I'm around more than you shall we say it's um we get some good emails uh I've gotten some good listener emails uh talking about the show and asking questions and so join in don't worry you're not the only one out there emailing us um

We have other shows we have the Apple Insider daily podcast if you like what we're talking about here and just want to hear less of it the Apple Insider daily is about 10 minutes-ish every day recapping the news of the day and that is a very pleasant quick listen I usually listen to it alongside the Apple news uh today uh program that's also about 10 minutes about world news um and then we also have The homekit Insider podcast that I do with Andrew every week that comes out on Mondays um that is a pretty fun show about home automation apple homekit and things Technologies surrounding it uh if you would please go to the Apple podcast app or your podcast of choice give us a review don't just give us Stars throw down some text tell us exactly why you love us or why you hate us um it's been an interesting few reviews since Stephen has left I think people are a little upset about that but I know that there are some five-star reviews out there that haven't taken the time to write it down yet so please we'd love to hear from you guys reach out and I would like to thank our sponsors once again sandbox and fast growing trees for sponsoring the show

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhello and welcome to the Apple Insider podcast this is your host Wesley H speaking and Today's Show is sponsored by sandbox and fast growing trees I'm joined Again by William Gallagher how you doing today oh I'm gr thank you how are you are you still wearing Vision Pro or is that's over now that's P actually I haven't taken it off in about 3 weeks um all right not yeah not even to shower it's uh kind of kind of crazy okay oh all right there's actually there's actually a YouTube video of someone showering with apple Vision Pro on yeah I don't understand it but are they supposed to be waterproof or is no okay there's literally exhaust vents in the top that go straight to the circuitry so I'm sure they destroyed that headset doing that video right well you know what the it's only $35,000 what's that and if that's have a second take I'm sure they had a spare one ready like all professional YouTubers do oh no apparently they've all returned them if you haven't read all of the news I know we covered a little bit last week but it's just the article titles keep getting more and more aggressive about it it's it's really quite fun right okay um right but well so today we're going to play uh another uh round of where is Wesley's Mac today so okay uh what do you think now that I've been using Vision Pro primarily what do you think I've done with my MacBook Pro I think it's right in front front of you so that you can connect to it like a proper Mac Uso with Vision Pro yeah so so turns out I've purchased a bookshelf for my office and uh one of the shelves is the perfect height to uh put my MacBook Pro with the 12 South uh book Arc to stand it upright so in the corner of my office uh there's a little bookshelf with my MacBook sitting on the on the bottom shelf with a cable running down there's a cabinet section in the very bottom uh and in that cabinet is a small portable monitor so that way it can uh be turned on and I have a magic mouse on my desk that is turned off but if I want to wake my Mac and connect to it in Vision Pro I turn on the Magic Mouse wiggle it and the Mac wakes with the screen on underneath the cabinet and then I connect to it in Vision Pro the display turns off under the cabinet and now I have a Mac in my vision Pro and my MacBook is on a bookshelf no I thought you I thought you might find that amusing well faintly horrifying actually but hang on a minute uh by chance uh last week when we recorded it the moment we finished recording I had to go somewhere and it's too complicated to explain why I had to bring my office Mac Mini with me so I did and Mac Min is a very small but the monitor very big so I didn't bring that I used it as a headless Mac with my iPad Pro as the monitor into it using uh screens app so is there no way to do something like that with Vision Pro you can't well you can run things headless um it's just Max or no Mac no Max or finicky um let's see what's his name Luke meani on YouTube uh ripped a monitor off of a MacBook Air the the display half and was still able to connect the keyboard half uh using the same connection feature and utilize the keyboard and trackpad which is interesting um as a concept like I don't think Apple's everever going to ship a trackpad keyboard Mac without a display like that but um definitely cool in concept yeah you say cool I that's horror ripping it apart that's murder it it was pretty aggressive so I would definitely say that um it's definitely not I I wouldn't want to do that because I still want a functional MacBook right if I if I need it if I if I don't have the Vision Pro I still want to have a display to look at but um no for whatever reason um it's difficult to get a Mac to do anything when there's not a monitor attached and you can fake it with like an HDMI plug uh that tells it that a monitor is attached there's ways to do this um and that could work but right now what I had on me was a portable monitor I've not touched in months sitting in a closet that I could just plug in I didn't rather than ordering a new complicated Contraption I just just hook this little guy up and it worked perfectly so I might get more complicated later but for now this works I use an app called screens which I used to use um when I didn't have a MacBook Pro and I would be at somewhere on my iPad I use it on that to connect into my office Mac and for some reason and who knows why two years ago it stopped connecting like that but while I'm in the house or while I'm on the same Wii Network it works fine so I switched on the the Mac Mini I remember remembered my password without being able to see where I was typing it just kind of waited it was probably waiting for the password gave it a few moments to launch all it stuff and then straight in through my iPad you know it's frankly sophisticated way of doing it compared to your stringing wires everywhere and Luke Milani's wait a minute stringing wires the bookshelf has a pass through it's fine yeah all right but hang on sorry I'm bit slow hereit Luke Milani ripped the top off a Mac Book but you can just close the lid on a MacBook and use an again when the lid's closed you can't actually do anything for what that like it it really aggress the system aggressively sleeps uh when you shut the lid unless there's an external monitor connected oh okay I was forgetting that bit about external monitor CU I've seen people use it clam shell mode okay right that makes as I speak so the good thing about the book Arc and the MacBook is it's portable so I grab it off the shelf carry it over to my desk now this again I'm going to get more complicated later and probably run my microphone wire to the Bookshelf cuz the bookshelf's next to my desk um so I don't have to move the MacBook but today I moved it to my desk plug it into the Thunderbolt cable it's normally reserved for my iPad and that's how we're recording this podcast is the macbook's currently connected to a studio display but I'm not looking at it on the studio display I'm looking at it inside the headset so you know very all all fun and modularity at the end of the day this is not Vision Pro podcast no no it isn't nor is it the William hasn't plugged Mac Mini back in in a week podcast but it could be I'm actually surprised to realize cuz it's you're recording more less at the same time it is precisely seven days since I took the Mac Mini away and it's lying behind me not plugged back in again I've done everything in the week on my MacBook Pro wherever what aren't MacBook Pros wonderful they're pretty great and see this is this gets back to a older discussion we had about how I wanted to replace my MacBook with a Mac Mini that just sits maybe on this bookshelf uh in perpetuity but I've realized since Apple Vision Pro came out man wouldn't it be great to have a Macbook and I saw I can't remember who said it exactly it's probably uh someone along the lines of Federico vtii or John grber but um they mentioned wouldn't it be perfect if a M3 12-in MacBook existed for Vision Pro it would be like the perfect companion you could pull this thing out anywhere put on the headset and Bam now you have a miniature keyboard trackpad perfectly compatible with Vision Pro and it all works of course over battery power that only lasts about 2 hours but anyway but s hang on am I I I can't work out whether I've guessed this or heard it somewhere you can only use Vision Pro with a Macbook you can't you can't connect it to a Mac Mini or Mac Studio no no no that was um a mistake uh you can use it with desktops absolutely well then it's just buy yourself the Mac Mini and way off you go well I can't take the Mac Mini to a I mean iess could take it to a coffee shop and plug it in with a Vision Pro or something but at that point I would prefer something portable with a keyboard and trackpad attached like yeah okay I see your point that yes okay but this is an apple Sports podcast actually today um Apple uh as well I guess yesterday as we record Apple released a apple Sports app a very odd piece of software I don't know if you've had a chance to poke at it but it's kind of empty until it isn't um this was definitely one of the weirdest onboarding experiences I've had with an Apple app I just turned it on and it was just kind of hey um there's nothing happening today just okay uh it doesn't give you any instructions obviously they need to fix the onboarding cuz it should let you choose teams right off the bat or something or maybe maybe it glitched out for me but uh have you have you messed with this app oh it's a sports app people you hold me back I was running towards that which football team will I add first um first I'd have to think of a football team and that that could take a while uh no basically I didn't I'm I I feel almost guilty now but it never crossed my mind to even try that it surprised me how many people reached out angry that the NFL wasn't a available to follow or NCAA football in America um considering the season is over right all right just it I think Apple made a mistake here because they have the capability it's all built into Apple news if anyone who has already wants Apple news or even Apple TV I believe has this functionality built in you can choose your favorite sports team and have those highlighted and in whatever way uh that is a part of Apple Sports and if you already had team selected like I had the Nashville MLS team selected and that showed up in apple sports but guess what uh sport uh Team level stats aren't available yet so it's just gray out I can't even click on it um but that's the only thing that showed up despite me having NFL and um NCAA football team selected as well in Apple news the functionality is there but Apple just chose not to include it because I guess they figured it would be confusing to users but instead they're just mad that they can't you know choose the Broncos or something I did notice CU I actually WR the news story saying it was out um just you know here it is this is where you get it that kind of news story uh the list of teams it supported I I got the fact that it was listing ones who are playing now and that later when seasons start uh others will be added I didn't actually realize that Sports Seasons run at different times of the year but okay I noticed the Premier League was L did there and I know that's a UK um football thing but there are many many other I mean many many other football things in Britain so is it just is that really just the only one that's playing now or the only one apples heard of well I mean there's several leagues in the list and it's mostly I mean baseball starts in a few days in America MLS started um when this app came out uh so they wanted it to debut alongside Messi's debut and I I think that was the point um but there's also uh basketball hockey um All-American leagues but then there's um of course multiple foreign leagues which I won't even try to bother to pronounce but you can go check it out um but like different French leagues of different things but all all of the foreign stuff looks like uh foreign football soccer whatever you want to call it uh for now I everyone's asking where's NASCAR where's uh which is the American Racing sport where's F1 wears wait a minute wait a minute you choose NASCAR to explain to me but all the other initials have just gone straight back well I don't know I feel like I mean these are pretty widely known NBA just you know basketball ho but I didn't say the letters that time William you weren't paying attention I said the name of the sport trying to help you out here well glossed over when you were talking about sport that's that's almost hard to believe what the thing is I expect you to be a sports fan because you play games don't you and isn't it just the same thing except instead of you playing it's however many people are in the football team I enjoy the idea of sports I can't get into it I'm not one of those I I like being in a room with other people who are really excited about a team playing today and I'm just eating chicken wings in the corner like that's that's my experience with sports um I'll root for the Tennessee Volunteers whenever they're playing um I understand what the rivalries are I just I I've tried to force myself to care I just can't I don't care um I don't care who the coach is I don't care who the quarterback is yada y it's just something about my brain just doesn't connect with it in the way that other people do and I'm jealous of that I kind of wish I could get into it that way cuz it seems fun but anyway this isn't Chen Wings chicken wings delicious I've been getting into hotter and hotter uh hot sauces and just uh making everyone around me very sad and worried for my health okay but in any case this is an interesting app I think it'll evolve with time I think it's going to pull in Apple stocks and and pull in the sports features from Apple news eventually I would like to see that Sports tab go away in Apple news and become customizable uh we've discussed that before well every time I look at it I think well I want the crosswords feature to come to the UK so that's my big aim but every time I think why am I I I'm not knocking sportly just for me it's an alien language I will never look in there and I can't bear Apple news Plus on a Saturday because you start reading a headline and it sounds really Ser oh it's sport again you know and yeah so just kind of filter out some things would be nice and that button yes I could use that for other things please app's apps are designed uh to be the simplest most basically they want to provide an example for other developers to say this is what your app should look like if it's a Notes app this is what your app should look like if it's a news aggregator or now a sports thing or an A a journal app and it's kind of their idea of condensing these things down into the most minimal perfect Apple version of that app and I and I like that Apple does that I really hope other developers take a look at this app and say huh we should try that um the app of course is very limited it's filled with sports betting if you don't want to see the odds I don't even understand what the odds mean honestly I I kind of get it maybe there's there's a spread um and like a money line I I don't know uh but the these appear everywhere um you can turn that off in settings so if you don't care about that um weird thing that's become very legal across the United States um yeah you can you can turn that off and see only the scores and team stats and stuff and that's nice for this app uh it's going to have live activities eventually there's a lot of features coming but for now there's a if a game is live you get a link to the Apple TV app to whatever it's playing on which is something other apps don't do ESPN because it's a Disney property only links to other ESPN apps and ABC which is useless yeah so yeah this this will be interesting I'm surprised about live activities because I remember when live activities first came along uh Sports was the example everybody gave for it I mean I've used it for flights and things I think it's great but I just unthinkingly assumed the new app had live of activities as well so I saw someone describe I I'll attribute it to Steve Shon Smith if it might be him but uh he said this looks like a um a weekend project done by a college student um kind of development level and I tend to agree it it it does kind of look like apple uh woke up a month and a half ago and I was like wait a minute MLS starts this year why don't we have a sports app and just assigned it to some intern and told them all right we need to show at least the score and uh the spread and and whatnot get it done by Messi's debut it needs to debut alongside of that so they had a deadline there's probably a few people assigned to this I'm exaggerating of course but they had a deadline so whatever features they could get done to at least show information that they already have access to they already have access to the scores uh live updates the play byplay all of this information is in Apple news and in Apple TV apps already they just needed to create an app Sur a rapper surrounding it and and they did a great job I think it's just um they had to ship so there's a reason why this stuff's missing um it's only going to grow from here I think that's true is it if everything Apple do like it food well actually including the Vision Pro and vision OS I'm sure my my mind's gone to pages and things like that which you're saying you like Apple's Simplicity approach as minimist approach and I like it very much because it felt like always feels like Apple thinks your work is the important thing whereas Microsoft thinks it is daning to allow you to use its many features but I do know people that uh believe Pages can't do as much as word because it's not in their face doing things for it so burden menus yeah yeah like yeah yeah so you have to click on the my leagues or my team button at the top and then start adding things in order for content to populate otherwise it's an empty screen which again I found a little the same thing happened with the journal app the first time you open it there's a plus button that's about all you have there wasn't even a plus button for this app and I feel like apple needs to be better about onboarding again maybe mine glitched out and there is onboarding I just didn't see it but in any case one last note on this app um it's designed specifically with sports in mind they want to get the information to you as it's happening if you ever used um other sports aggregator apps that spring scores and there's there's uh popular ones that have live activities that's for uh viewing many different things including uh F1 and whatnot if you ever have that open next to a live game you'll notice the live game is minutes if not maybe not minutes but at least a minute ahead you know there's there's several seconds between them so you might be on your phone getting information people have had for multiple minutes and that is crucial in a game especially maybe if you're betting on it because that's a thing people do now um so Apple's goal with this was to get information as live as close to live as possible and I think they've achieved that with this one that seems like it's pretty um quick I opened a Premier League game yesterday and uh it was interesting seeing how all of that flowed in but again it'll be even better once live activities launch got to tell you I'm now looking at my F1 key very suspiciously I trusted that function key but you know if it's going to be late I don't I probably missed the point there haven't I I'll shut up now okay you should know what F1 is well you don't live under a rock um um I don't want to say corruption was the first word that popped into my mind uh alongside allegedly um I might be thinking of a different sport altogether I think I am really I mean you're thinking of all sports I'm fairly certain but that's not the that's not the point speaking of all sports um Apple wants to have the Vision Pro involved in more things so they have at least promised openly that there will be a kind of after the fact so after a game is played or after like a um very important MLS game is played maybe uh there will be highlights and kind of a documentary style um after like uh gosh what am I looking for sports highlights from the game but shot entirely for the Vision Pro in 3D from impossible seats like above the goal or near the goal line in the field whatnot um shared after the fact so sports fans can go relive those moments but in full spatial 3D and I I I find that interesting I think that would be really fun for American football a lot of sports uh would actually be really cool I think if uh Apple could buy a NASCAR team or something wouldn't it be wild to have a spatial camera attached to one of these vehicles or something oh forget that give everybody Apple Vision Pro now oh right no NASCAR driving at uh what is it 200 300 miles an hour just have the uh have people strap A Vision Pro to their headset or something you know yeah okay I might even watch a minute or two I've been to one half of one football game in my life and it was a job I was working there and I got out it was weirdly uh the atmosphere is very strange there so uh but I've never actually watched a match on television ever I I can enjoy watching baseball I prefer watching it live I football's fine like American football I I don't I don't understand watching soccer um it's it's fun like the excitement is there but I just it again it's just I'm I'm exhausted watching them run for 30 minutes straight uh yeah I can cope with that um yeah let them let them run I can read a book I tell I have actually enjoyed a Wimbledon match and I can't remember which one it was but yes okay so I'm not anti Sports just not into it at all but there we go one last sport uh basketball uh it appears that there were cameras uh used for um spatial recording found during the um what is it there was a slam dunk contest yeah Slam Dunk Contest again cool uh like imagine having a camera near or above the goal and uh at the on the court and if you've experienced I know you haven't William but if you've used The Vision Pro um for the Alicia Keys uh imersive video you can see cuz you you jump around I just heard myself echo that was weird um you can see the cameras that are used to record what's happening around the room and they have them in these like beautiful white boxes they almost look like shelves so if you didn't know to look for the lenses you wouldn't probably would miss it and just say wow that's an odd piece of furniture um this camera at the NBA game was similar but it was less disguised it was this black ugly thing with two holes in the front um I think we're going to see more of these in different places and I'm glad that Apple's trying to capture uh we don't know this is Apple this is a rumor we just saw a 3D camera at a basketball game uh but it's probably for this or at least someone is recording it maybe there's a new documentary coming to meta Quest who knows uh but I I feel like we're going to see more of these things uh other places I'm just surprised that they did not do this for the halftime show at the Super Bowl oh good point I knew there was a making of sorry my mind's on you hearing an echo of yourself I I didn't hear it but I think that means uh Wes you're in special audio M all right you heard it here first and possibly last but okay right um well I'd really like to try some of the experiences like Alicia Keys would be like the first thing I'd watch but things like this the Star Trek Experience uh omn focus is now in test flight um on it so I'm ever more keen to try this but possibly not for sports I don't know if you picked up on that at all this week's episode is brought to you by the AI email management tool sanbox now you cannot get me off email I love Amil is the greatest but whether you feel the same way or not you're unlikely to love the number the sheer volume of email that you have to answer and that seems to come at you just when you need to concentrate on something else same box just sorts that out whatever email service you use sbox provides a set of tools that that can help you take sane reminders for example uh you're emailing someone if you BCC the address one week at sandbox.com that's the digit one in the word week so one week at sandbox.com you send it off and you put that email completely out of your mind until a week later without you doing anything else without you having to think about it or take the time to chase something if your recipient has not replied in one week sanbox knows and will send you a reminder it's great for delegating tasks and knowing that you don't have to keep track of other people and whether 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2024 and it has just a slew of features to help keep you staying on top of your inbox find out for yourself find out how same boox can help your time and your concentration with with a free 2E trial visit sbox.jpg if you what's the nails b line uh if you think you understand quantum mechanics you're wrong that kind of thing or is it no it's more than that um it's like if you're not you know blown over blown apart mind blown by that you don't understand it I should look up the real quote couldn't I a little bit uh but you've got quantum mechanics on your mind and I'm thinking a leap from Nascar to Quantum Mechanics there's probably a connection there um why are you bringing this up now is it just uh list of things to test me on for some reason well so Apple obviously has quantum mechanics on their mind because they're worried about Quantum Computing eventually being able to crack iMessage encryption and this is something we've heard of before um the FBI uh for instance when they were trying to get apple to build back doors to the iMessage system uh gosh San berardino uh I always ruin that word but um that whole incident um I remember being a part of the story being that the FBI and several police precincts around the United States just have drawers of locked iPhones waiting for the day that someone just can crack into these things and um this is there's actually a uh like official term for this it's called Harvest now decrypt later oh and the hope is yeah the hope is that eventually Computing will get so good so powerful so fast uh that even apples encryption will be able to be broken we'll be able to get into these devices and finally discover who the real terrorists are and actually sorry there's a a term in the UK called cold cases I don't know if that's in the states as well investigating long ago crimes at some point today's phones will be long enough ago the people will get into them and all of that data all of these crimes that could be solved that all sorry I need to go write a film now so so so basically the idea is right now um um if you want to get into someone's system breaking that encryption requires just kind of brute forcing it guessing the encryption key number and letter by number and letter which leads to millions and billions of combinations that can just take Millennia if a computer right now sequentially tried to break down even one iMessage encryption protocol it could take a thousand years unless it just got lucky uh the idea of quantum Computing would mean that it would able would be able to do this much faster if not nearly instantly uh minutes rather than years um so Quantum Computing is very powerful we're not going to get into why or how CU um that's above even our pay grade I've met people who work on Quantum Computing very smart very smart people um not not too distant from the nuclear field just a different branch I suppose but in any case what happens is Apple has decided okay Quantum Computing will eventually be a thing we're already seeing signs of it now but it's just it's far enough away that it's still not really a present danger there's no way this can happen today it's too expensive to even attempt it and the computers that do exist just they're not built for this so Apple has built a system to change how encryption works for iMessage instead of giving you one encryption key um and you can correct me if I'm wrong did you write this story no I knew there was an iMessage improv but I didn't realize it was at Quantum level so no this is all new to me so so Apple isn't doing anything Quantum to to be clear U but they're protecting themselves against Quantum uh Computing so more or less because this there's there's a thousand words here in this article go go read it uh it'll help you understand this better but to give you the broadest overview basically what's happening is instead of encrypting um giving you an encryption key that can unlock the iMessage directory inside of your phone which if someone cracked it then they would have access to the ire history and everything um apple is doing it in kind of bundles now but they can't do it per message maybe it'll eventually get to that point because it's just we'll we'll be that good at it or whatever but right now it's bundling up groups of messages they didn't say how many I think they're trying to keep that all abstract but um slices of your message conversation have different keys so that even if someone got a hold of your iMessage conversation and tried to decrypt any one of the key they would only see like hey hello how are you you know love you Mom and then that would be the entire conversation they would see um and they would have to get incredibly lucky to find the juicy bits that they were actually looking for and again they would have to decrypt multiple Keys which takes time computing power money and even when quantum computers become more readily available it's still a timeconsuming expensive process to try to decrypt hundreds of different keys for a single conversation so I think this is a smart way to go about about it um what what do you think it's shipping with iOS 174 and the rest of them what I'm thinking what what I'm getting from this is that I should start all my most illicit message threads with hi Mom how are you love you to see great weather that kind of thing and then only on the third part go into the um and where should we which bank should we rob tonight that kind of thing is that what you're saying is that your advice uh for the safety of the future not quite because I think the the attacks can be more sophisticated than just starting at the beginning um they could probably try to get within a date range I don't I again this is all above our pay grade I don't know what a encrypted file looks like if it's just I understand it's a jumble of nonsense but um perhaps they can look for date codes and isolate what they're looking for I I have no idea but um that this system though um actually makes some little bit of sense to me I again I I I recommend everyone just go go Apple released information on this there's a fun little diagram and they kind of it's one of the rare examples of Apple kind of calling out competitors in on a piece of paper um they're talking about so this chart that's I I put in the show notes for William's sake um there's different levels of uh cryptography and level zero is Skype Telegram and WeChat um level one is inry end encryption by default which is where iMessage used to be well if you're on 17.3 today that's where it is currently alongside apps like line Viber and WhatsApp uh level two and level three don't have competitors listed um so this is the postquantum cryptography basically Apple building cryptography focusing on defeating Quantum Computing um Apple isn't focused on level two which basically is only looking at um creating the postquantum crypto graphy Keys one at a time for an entire set Apple's going all the way to what they call level three where they're establishing these keys and rekeying them periodically for different groups of messages and eventually this will get a even higher level Apple hasn't labeled but where they're going to add an additional layer of authentication on top of this uh to prevent further attacks so very Advanced very interesting and I don't think any of this really matters to the average user but it's cool that Apple's into this length because a lot of government institutions use iPhones you're saying that there about how it's quite rare for Apple to call out Rivals I think I was working on this week because there was a report that uh Microsoft and meta are lobbying the EU uh to say that apple is not complying uh with this whole thing of the the third party app stores that apple is uh just not doing it right I suppose is the way or not doing it the way those two companies went and apple issued a state on the record uh obviously in response to this directly after it but not naming any of those companies just laying out its case again of uh it's concerned about security it's doing this for that is trying to be helpful for users but also all along the way it was and we did this for a year with the European commission and it was like duh we did it with them it can't be not complying and things like that and I thought that was quite close to strident actually for a state I mean from apple yeah apple again I think people are just mad that the the system as it is written um apple is complying with but they're just not happy with how the system is written this is the problem with regulation and we can do a whole show on this um everyone wants Apple to be regulated well not everyone but people who want Apple to be regulated think it's a magic solution that's going to fix everything and it's like no regulation can solve some problems but it creates new ones because the Regulators generally don't know what they're talking about and the people who have these problems aren't the ones writing the bills writing legislature they don't know what they're asking for they think that they've covered all the bases that they've screwed Apple into a corner that they can only comply in the way that the you know people like epic games or Microsoft or Facebook want to see happen and it's just not the case there's no such thing as a perfect law there's no such thing as a perfect Bill to lock you into this corner that makes everyone one happy it's just not going to happen so that's why um there's a story we can cover here in a moment uh about a meditation app but uh that's a little later if we have time but they're approaching Apple by having conversations with the development team by talking the Apple themselves trying to be really nice about it more or less and actually just get in underneath and say look we're this team this is what we're trying to do we're not trying to steal candy from babies we just want these um meditation teachers to be able to be tipped what can we do to not have to pay a commission on this and they're trying to work forward with apple versus you know releasing a uh coopera Cooperative planned effort and attack to secretly include a inap purchase and an entire advertisement industry surrounding a new lawsuit that's taken to the Supreme Court yeah I think the two methods are very different and one's going to work over the other one makes Apple very angry and one makes Apple more considerate and we'll see which one works in the end of course but I don't think epic's ever going to get what they want no I mean epic wants a free ride and who doesn't I suppose but I do remember thinking when just specifically the epic thing when that kicked off the first day it happened it seemed like apple was being very heavy handed getting rid of them and you knew there was something more to it but then you find out that apart from uh epic going on about oh we're standing up for the little person and this is a terrible thing we must respond they' actually planned to incite it for for several months they'd filmed a video ready for it and things like that I think they were stupid to tell us that but we would have guessed it eventually anyway and the moment all of that was going on I thought all right big corporation uh out for itself doesn't care about us and I kind of Switched Off from them um and previously I was as being such a gamer I was in Fort is it fortnite yeah I was in fortnite every two weeks or something like that um yeah okay fortnite copied the robot model so they could make more money I mean come on there there's nothing altruistic about that company but anyway I think uh we have a little bit more time for more Apple Vision Pro information we'll keep this one quick because we've already talked about it a little bit but I Believe on last week's episode correct me if I'm wrong we talked a little bit about the travel case right yes this strange uh thing it reminds me of the prisoner and the big white bubble like thing but you've got one i' take it and you wrote the review didn't you that was coming out yes so there there the review is out and people are a little upset that I gave it two stars um I explain heavily in the review that I actually like this uh device but our review system isn't for me it's for everyone else it's just not a very good travel case um I think it's a good storage case honestly it's a nice place to put Vision Pro when I'm not using it or if I do need to take it somewhere at least I have an option I'm going to be looking at different options later but this is what I had at the time um so the best option is the only one you have kind of thing but no two store two stars I I I'll stand by it it's it's it's gigantic uh someone was arguing with me that um people reg regularly commute with 35 L bags do you measure bags and liters over there no just big ones and little ones actually now I think you can find out you know but it's never I've never been it's not something that comes up it's not a general conver you have to be a backpack like Enthusiast to know what sizes backpacks are cuz I agree I've never heard another human being other than nerds mention a backpack's lader size but um if you think about it a 10 L bag would hold maybe um an iPad Pro with a magic keyboard a set of headphones and a controller and you would quickly be running out of space at that point but it'd be very slim very light uh 15 L you have room for a Macbook and a Macbook and and an iPad and have a compartment space for multiple things including a changey clothes snacks like that that five lers actually makes quite a difference 21 lers would get you um that's more of an overnight so now you have enough room for an overnight bag rather than just commuting there's just more more space for more things 35 liters this person was arguing was like oh yeah you can regularly I regularly travel or uh commute commuting meaning going to and from work with this bag a 35 L bag would weigh like an incredible amount I'm not even going to put a weight to it because whatever I guess would be wrong but um it's it would just it's just gigantic and we're getting to the point where I'm thinking of my seabag and what you call a cabag in the milit in in the Navy anyway is that giant green bag that you see people leaving to go deployment with um so what level do you need to be carrying for the Vision Pro travel case to make sense and 15 L is too small 21 L you're taking up half of the compartment um so you have room for maybe a bag of chips and a t-shirt on top of it um so that's why you're getting into the 30s before the travel case becomes travelable and maybe you're getting on an airplane with a 35 L case as long as that backpack actually meets the um length and width requirements of carryon sure uh but no it's just it's just too big if it takes up half of my 21 L backpack which is my personal large bag if I'm traveling big that's my big bag that's what I take with me it's that's I pack like three days worth of stuff in that thing um and this takes up half of that and Vision Pro is much much smaller than this case so I just find it very odd that Apple would call it a travel case they should have called it a storage case got a minut I'm tempted now to pour water into my various bags to see how much they contain but I'm certain what the one I regularly commute with is uh at least 40 lers cu the thing is I'm obviously stronger than you with all the sports that I play that's you see that's how it works out yeah okay do you do you know the name of your bag um it's actually unfortunately discontinued it's I've got a bungo bag um and I blanked on the name of the company the company still exist and they're really good Nomo bags uh k n o o uh basically n them but they all sell in the states they make gorgeous bags and I overload this one ridiculously with things in fact so much so uh it was on the passenger seat of my car the day were driving somewhere and the car kept in believed it was a person I had so much on there and it was flashing the why aren't they wearing their seat belt sign that's funny you got to buckle it up exactly so what I would like from a for me personally so I'm going to be trying a few of these cases to to I'll you'll see reviews eventually um not don't don't expect it soon still waiting on them to arrive so that's pretty early in the review process waiting to actually review the thing but um I'm going to be looking at these I think my favorite might be the Waterfield yes you have to detach the bands every time and people in the comments saying this I think none of them own a Vision Pro it is incredibly simple you just snap a little thing and and the oh right I didn't know that and and the band comes off it's a quarter of a second and now you have H you've returned half of the volume of your backpack just because of that um I so I think that case is going to be really nice uh there's going to be a few others there's some cheap ones on Amazon people have been recommending that are fine for getting the job done um I think I what I would like to see which no one's probably going to make because Vision Pro is such a low volume object I think it would be interesting to see a backpack with like a compartment designed for Vision Pro inside of it um kind of like how every bag now has a laptop sleeve why not have a headset sleeve somewhere inside of a bag did you uh ever use airpods max I'm wearing them right now all right uh did you get the the case for it the the bra shaped case well that's included with it right that sleep wake to me actually um I suppose I don't know whether I mean I've never even seen it so I don't know how how it feels and things but uh is it just for storage on site or would you travel with that as a protector um it sits on a shelf of my office until I leave anywhere with it but if I travel with my airpods they go in that case because it sleeps it so the battery doesn't drain and it protects it it prevents scratches on the aluminum shells you know so it's a useful travel um mechanism it goes in a bag um next to everything else um seems very neat design to me whereas The Vision Pro one seems kind of bulbous in a way so just surpr it's silly because everyone's like oh I need a travel case for my airpods Max but it triples the size of the airpods max when you put it in a case versus the um quote unquote bra that people complain about I actually don't don't mind it it's fine good to me but yeah okay I also wrote about the inserts so if you had questions about the um Optical inserts go check that out it's just a little Hands-On there's not much to say they're eyeglass inserts to help you see but maybe you don't know how to order them or you don't know what's covered because it doesn't cover every eye condition and it doesn't cover every prescription option some prescriptions are too strong for Zeiss to make currently so yeah certain the Apple Vision Pro is actually quite the exclusionary product it's one of the few Apple things one of the few things Apple makes that some people just cannot use period um uh at least today that that will change with time as things get better it'll get easier to make certain types of inserts different companies might make inserts for it but certain types of Correction like prism correction just you cannot do that with the zece lenses but if you can correct your vision using uh soft contacts you don't even need inserts so just keep that in mind are the inserts easy to take in and take out again yes there the the magnetic level is very light I've actually dropped the Vision Pro before and they just they kind of pop out like airpods out of the case you've dropped the Vision Pro well it hit a carpet it's fine okay all right not a scratch yeah no it was one of those stupid moments where I'm sitting in a chair at my desk and the cable caught on the arm when I was backing away and it just pulled the Vision Pro into like but like I think it kind of swung from the cable and then just grazed the floor so it didn't like Drop straight down to the floor there was no damage it's just like a oops I need to pay attention to that from now on and it hasn't happened since so I just I have the same that it did it in slow motion just for emphasis as it got nearer to the bottom and then yeah okay drama excitement so when do you think the Apple Vision Pro 2 is coming out I'm not talking about Apple vision air or SE or what have you what do you when do you think alision Pro the sequel uh it feels too early if it's exactly a year away um but then two years feels too long um uh a year and a quarter year and a half year and three quarters maybe um right so I'm trying to get I feel like you know the answer and I'm trying to get it really um a year and a half okay I've plump for that I'm a sports betting man I'm putting my money on a year and a half please tell me I'm right so Mark Garmin says agrees with you about 18 months so this isn't new information this has actually been heavily discussed um in the rumor Sphere not by anything too credible I don't think but every supply chain information and such points to at a minimum 18 months so from release not announcement so everyone's like oh but they announced Vision Pro in June 2020 uh3 so that means it'll come out the next version's coming out in 25 that's great no that's um not how this is going to work so people confused by this this product right now today there's there might be $500,000 uh 500,000 units by the end of the year maybe 600,000 if we're being really generous according to estimates this isn't these aren't my numbers I didn't make them up um so in a year less than a million in two years we might hit maybe 2 million penetration and uh some estimates put um it taking up to 3 years before we even can consider consider getting close to a 10 million penetration uh and that's only on shipments not on sales so of course um this and at this price so we're talking about a product that's difficult to make low volume high price how often do you think like I don't I don't understand people's need I okay I do people think that if this comes out with an updated model next year it's going to be this radical new design that's lightweight and amazing and cost $1,000 that's everyone usual thought process here no if the if if Apple does anything they might update the chipset I don't think that's going to happen either because again they're undermining their own supply chain at that point this is a 26 fall 27 spring at the soonest for the announcement of the device let alone release uh as for Apple Vision Pro 2 at least that's my that's my estimate um you can write it down tell me I'm wrong when they announce it in 6 months but um I just I don't believe that this is an even an 18mon device I'm interested in the time of year because I was thinking things like um Apple watch always gets announced around the same time as the iPhone and originally it's cuz you kind of had to you had to have an iPhone with the watch and also the watch was small enough that it needed the attention and now I think it doesn't it could spread out on its own to the point of the year would you announce a New Vision Pro on the heels in the same in within a month or two of the iPhone launch or would you try to push it somewhere else in the year this is this is uh an iPad treat it like an iPad uh especially the iPad Pro um which usually is an 18 to 24 month cycle um but I'm I'm putting this closer to a 24 to 36 month cycle um but it it's just going to land where it lands uh it could be a spring release it could be an October release this is a device I think that falls in the iPad Lane so of course maybe it'll get its own um event uh I don't think it could be announced alongs alongside some iPads and a March event maybe but this is definitely not an here's an iPhone here's some airpods and Vision Pro the end that that's not how Apple's going to do it it's going to get its own giant time slot in one of these events this week's episode is brought to you by fast growing trees did you know fast growing trees it's the biggest online Nursery in the US with more than 10,000 different kinds of plants and over 2 million happy customers in the US you can grow lemon avocado Olive or fig trees inside your home on top of the wide variety of house plants available fast growing trees makes it easy to order online and your plants are shipped directly to your door in 1 to two days and along with their 30-day alive and Thrive guarantee they offer free plant consultation forever you've got to love that you've got to love that alive and Thrive guarantee I'm not in the US so I haven't been able to buy from Pas trees myself but I have as a gift for a friend in the states and I could buy for her knowing that she get the plant within just one or two days and knowing that fast growing trees has growing and Care advice that's available to her 247 and right now they have the best deals online up to half off on select Plants Plus listeners to our show get an additional 15% off when using the code Apple Insider at checkout that's an additional 15% off at fastgo trees.com using the code appleinsider checkout fastgo trees.com code Apple Insider offer is valid for a limited time tell them we sent you and thanks to fast growing trees for their support of the Apple Insider podcast actually I I think about this a lot because um I think apple is extremely good at when it renounces what it isn't just we finally got it ready it's really really well planned to what will get maximum attention and what will help other things what will hinder other things um I've been hearing the last few days that uh an apple smart ring is going to come out soon and I don't believe it because we've just got the Vision Pro it feels just the the the drama of it the show of it is wrong um do you know what the kind of uh the strength of that ring rumor is cuz I've Just Seen headlines well the apple ring thing has been rumored for a while just like foldables um it's kind of a fad uh rumor Apple obviously is investigating this uh it would be another way to another metric for tracking um heart rate if you're wearing it in Tandon with an Apple watch you could probably get a better uh you could get a twoo ECG right there's M multiple things that this thing could be useful for kind of but it's not going to cover anything the Apple watch doesn't already cover so maybe you'd give people the option of wearing it instead of an Apple Watch which is my assumption and all low people to wear their nicer uh fancy watches but still get some of their health tracking benefits um do you wear an Apple Watch yes I do and there are no watches that are fancier no would wear a ring now uh it depends what it does I had I tried out a uh wear we for work ring uh last year or the year before and I actually found it very handy when I was giving a presentation no it must have been before Co that's the last time I've done slide somewhere and just being able to kind of vaguely gesture at the screen and my thumb catch the side of the Ring to change the slide I like that a lot actually I found that very useful because if you control it through um a clicker you don't really have quite as much ability to gesticulate which I need and if you control it through your phone I've realized people think you're messaging somebody so a ring was actually really good in that purppose yeah William you don't even need a ring uh I think Apple's a little behind I I heard the man who got the brain implant can now control a mouse cursor with his mind right okay yeah uh listen I'll get straight on that after I've watched some football um yeah I don't think the two are compatible I you know that's a shame yeah roooting for both of them okay Apple's so Apple's new iPhone color it's not blue is it Well I this is I'm hearing this but you know I can hold that hope for it a little bit I do I ever explain to you why I like blue on Apple devices uh because it's such an obscure reason I've probably been too embarrassed to tell anybody because it's a quote uh from the BBC uh 30 years ago 40 years ago there was a joke about it in uh one of the uh thing called the computer program a part of the BBC computer literacy project somebody goes to buy a computer and it ends up with do you have it in blue and it's all hilarious and actually it was funny at the time but for some reason it stuck with me and as it turns out when there is a blue iPhone I am now drawn to it the power of Television you know it's tugging me that way whereas you don't care no no you've you've been incepted by the BBC yes okay no so there there is a rumor who knows the credibility here um that the at least there will be yellow and gray fine I mean it it's an iPhone color they happen uh every year we'll we'll we'll see when Apple announces it these are one of those rumors that almost never happen um last year we knew it was going to be three different Shades of Gray and that's kind of what we got that it I don't expect Apple to shock us with color anymore um not since the iMac that was the last time I was surprised by color from Apple from not from now on I expect at least for the next few years it's just going to be kind of O okay there was that green iPhone Pro a couple of years ago which um you know fine if you like green but the advert for it was frightening the green was like biting the side of the screen and things that's that color surprised me a little bit but um so speaking of updates and airpods the airpods max could get an update but this rumor is claiming that it could be a very minimal update uh lacking any any excitement have have you seen this one well no but the headphones I mean I mean I bet there's going to be a lightning will change to USBC but what else could that be well there's a lot because this the headset the headphones I'm wearing right now came out I believe in December of 2019 goodness and uh haven't been updated since so there's a lot of Technology missing from these headphones these $550 headphones that cannot do many of the things the airpods pro can today oh so noise cancelling and things like that is it well it does noise cancelling it just doesn't have the new noise cancelling they're H1 chips so there's technology here it's just the older technology and automatic switching and whatnot is there it's just the older um it's the less good version of all of this um there's no real fine my integration uh like the airpods Pro 2 had um the lossless audio with airpod with uh Apple Vision Pro the lossless audio with apple Vision Pro that airpods Pro 2 with USBC can do um not here it needs a special 5 GHz radio for that oh okay and it's a H2 to H2 connection which these airpods Macs have H1s so hopefully Apple would give us at least a modern version that does as much as the airpods Pro 2 do today that would be a great update I would instantly buy it it would have USBC great but this rumor suggests all Apple's going to do is release a USBC version which I just I think this is just absolutely wrong it's not that that is not going to be the case it's still the same price that it was in 2019 that's cuz oh no there is more than that the original apple pencil came out in 2015 and I think that I mean I know the same model is still on sale I think it's the same price it was uh so so much for you know volume and scale reducing the cost of things so one one last leak uh that's not really too surpris there's one piece of information in here that's actually new um so we've known that the iPad Air is going to adopt the 12.9 in size class it's basically going to borrow the chassis from the existing 12.9 in iPad Pro but the Revelation from this information is how much thinner the new iPad Pro are going to be so the iPad Airs are just going to be the old 11-in iPad Air is going to be the same size the new 12.9 in is the old iPad Pro size at 6.4 mm thickness so it's the air that's at 6.4 mm now bear with me the new 12.9 in iPad Pro will be 5 mm thick it'll be thinner than the iPad Air 5 millim can I just say by the way I love that you said that correctly 5 mm thick cuz I remember so clearly when Apple started saying uh 1 in thin and things like that just to try to make it sound better but yeah try you know I mean God bless marketing I'm all for it but in that case that one amused me um I think it's I have an iPad Pro next to me um the 11 in is 10 point something inch and I can't visualize it being much thinner but I it be thinner than the existing 11-in iPad Pro which is Wild by a whole millimeter this is thinner than the iPod uh touch I believe no the the iPod the the current iPad Pro is thinner than the original iPod Nano is the is the crazy thing the but this five at 5 mm it's it's so much thinner than that and I can't wait to see YouTubers bend it over their knee because they absolutely will oh that's a horrible thought no get that out of my head no no no no no no um I miss the 12.9 in size that I used to have when I had an original uh iPad Pro um I just there's no way I could afford that this time around but every now and again I miss it because with that size it was like two iPads next to each other and you felt like your fingers were kind of in the work you were doing uh so I'd be very tempted by a 12.9 but uh and and with an OLED display I mean this this is going to be a beautiful device I'm excited for it um I think I'm going to be getting one because it's I I found that I'm still using the iPad Pro when I'm not using the Vision Pro so that's nice I so I I think I will be upgrading to this new product get the new uh metal keyboard uh these this rumor is possible I mean these measurements aren't completely out of whack there's just some Oddities for some reason the 11in iPad Pro is going to get a little bit longer but um widthwise it's going to get smaller versus the 12.9 in iPad Pro is getting bigger in both dimensions I don't understand what's happening there um according to these measurements so so who knows we'll see what happens when Apple announces it we're expecting something possibly in March um I that feels too soon for me considering Vision Pro still destroyed my wallet but uh we'll see we'll see what happens as far as ordering these goes I I'm hoping that I'll have some money put away for that by then I'm glad you're still using the iPad h i mean you're such an iPad person uh that I was been meaning to ask you about it it's these devices are slotting into place in your life really yes the I mean the iPad minu is still going around the house with me the iPad Pro with a keyboard I mean I can take my Vision Pro to my room um and use it and I have to watch media but not to work sometimes sometimes I'll just want the comfort of just lounging back I have some pillows just Lounge back on the bed and type something up or whatever and I'll I'll take my uh iPad to do that I'm not going to take the whole Vision Pro and the keyboard and the trackpad and all of that and try and sit on my bed and do do that kind of work um so the iPad still serves their purpose in certain areas uh Vision Pro fits in great in an office environment and certain situations but I think they're very distinct they they're basically the same operating system as far as things go just displayed differently so I want to see what Apple does to further differentiate and better yeah the systems on both devices especially WWDC and jeene it's amazing how close WWDC seems already I mean I know we every it's almost at the end of it I'm thinking I'm doing various things that are in April now and I'm thinking April that's so close to June I'm wishing the year away already this is so iosa 174s beta came out and um the only real interesting thing here um is that Apple has revamped again the battery menu and settings they're always working on this thing and they've changed it so when you open the battery menu you see the battery health rating as instead of a percentage as a word they're they're humanizing it so now if your battery health is good it'll say normal and then otherwise it'll say something other than normal I don't know the other words um but you tap this to open it up and it that's where you'll see your percentage capacity and your cycle count now uh that cycle count used to be an about now it's all under battery which is nice but this is only for the iPhone 15 lineup and so I bring this up because because uh did you see the news Apple dug around on the couch cushions they they they checked around the labs and they found more battery to give us all uh it's pretty pretty fun story yeah it's it seems not worrying but it just I would have thought Apple's testing pre-release engineering verification test or something would work out something like the battery capacity because one imagines the battery capacity is a massive Focus for Apple trying to get as much as they can and to go oh do you think maybe did somebody just drop a zero off a spreadsheet in the lab so basically this is my understanding of what's happened I don't know anything but I understand a lot of engineering processes so this is my guess they had to certify right for something and they always certified iPhone at 500 for 80% so they there's a test that you put the battery through to certify that yes after 500 Cycles the battery will age this much and they were able to consistently prove that get and make the claim in their PR but then Engineers must have looked at the Battery Technology and said you know we could probably get more out of this and maybe not even since maybe iOS 17 wasn't good enough maybe iOS 17.2 they tweaked these systems even further to get more efficiency out of the battery something's changed in the last six months to allow them to do redo the test but at a higher rating so now they've done these the process of testing it at 1,000 Cycles to discover oh actually the battery can survive at this it wasn't as if the battery suddenly changed the software is always changing around this Apple's always tweaking how the battery uh conserves its power and how well it works so I this is a win for customers I I mean I some people are trying to default to not trusting it but I mean the the proof is in the pudding we'll see what happens uh when people start getting over that 500 cycle count if their devices start degrading but it's it means years on your device not months um if this is true I just checked my battery heal thing and you're right it's I'm on the beta it says normal but I kind of want it to say extraordinary that's what I want sort that out Apple no okay you're just looking at me now okay but I didn't know that about the test so the only thing I knew about iOS 17.4 is beta is that the been a change to carplay but um as I understand it basically not in my car uh right you need to have a uh instrument Dash that's connected through the carplay system and only modern cars do that like we're talking 2023 at the soonest really uh maybe a couple older cars do but this is not a ubiquitous system and you can't even aftermarket I don't believe but no the just to get back on that engineering tests uh proving different systems they I I believe they all generally work the same way you have a goal to hit so you have to kind of do a proof of concept on that um gosh I was just it's it's tickling the back of my mind and it's escaping me but I was reading about how a company had to geez it is escaping me but they were they were doing basically a test to make sure that a thing worked a thousand times and they had to perform the same test a thousand times to prove that that actually was the true rating of this device like that's how intensive some of these systems can be um when you're doing like the the proof tests on different equipment batteries hinges what what have you it's it's all the same kind of concept you have you're basically proving in the lab that this thing will run the same way uh consistently across a given product and apple was able to confidently say it's kind of like the waterproofing Apple can confidently say your iPhone Will Survive for 5 minutes a depth of 6 M but it's actually better than that in most circumstances and um they Apple just won't say that they're not going to up their water rating because then they're opening themselves to um lawsuits if things go wrong deeper than that but for the battery life thing I think they if their confidence level is that high they would have to be really really confident to say this because again people lawsuits they happen all the time so so you're proving to a minimum uh but it could be well it will all it's like a Baker's Dozen thing isn't it um 13 just to make sure you always deliver 12 at least that I can follow that yeah but it was a nice thing to hear about um especially if I don't upgrade to the iPhone 16 because as you know we've heard from Barkley's Bank the people who would be the people who would know this there isn't going to be anything special about the iPhone 16 at all I believe they have that report prepared every year I I think it actually ships it's just they change the number and it's the same report every year oh I wonder if it's automated with send later and there's a macro that just updates the number before it goes yeah okay right in in 12,000 years the aliens will visit Earth and find a working computer and the article at the top of the screen will be from Barclay's automated system because they forgot to turn it off yes and it'll say the iPhone 175,000 is is not going to be worth it this year skip it it's not but uh that is I believe a good show William do you have anything to add before we drop off no I just I'm surprised again and again every time you talk about I think there something else to ask you about Vision Pro I hope you don't mind me constantly asking this stuff Oh no you're fine it's just it's exciting isn't it a whole new platform A Whole New World for all of this and um yeah I'm very tempted by it mostly from you uh if if anyone has any questions speaking of if anyone has any questions about Vision Pro um after a few weeks of use we're coming up on a month soon of having the device uh I'm going to be writing something about it so if you have any questions about Vision Pro productivity apps what have you how it works what what annoys me about it because there are things I am annoyed by believe it or not um you know reach out on mcadon Twitter email what have you I'd be happy to uh either talk to you there or include it in my writeup that I'm working on currently um but yes as we approach a month it's still an interesting product I am starting to shift my office around it I'm starting to think about workflows and I'm excited to see what developers do with it but um there's still a lot to come to discuss about this device uh but thankfully as maybe you noticed by this episode today we only spent about 7 minutes on Vision Pro so we are dialing it back a little bit guys you can breathe easy it is still the Apple Insider podcast it is not the Vision Pro Insider podcast but that would be a fun one to make it would wouldn't it yes all right let's talk about that okay but yeah for now I'll shut up asking you maybe next week all right so you can find me on Macedon mostly I am active there uh if I see you ping me on Twitter I'll reply but I not guaranteed to see you uh but Mason is the best place to find me William where can they find you online well I noticed the other week Mike wther was on and he said uh basically Apple Insider an email and I realized yeah I love email via my Apple Insider address but I also have a YouTube channel I am more on Twitter and I don't fully know why really but yes I can be found on Twitter as w gallager i I'm around more than you there shall we say it's um we get some good emails uh I've gotten some good listener emails uh talking about the show and asking questions and so join in don't worry you're not the only one out there emailing us um and speaking of I you know we have other shows we have the Apple Insider daily podcast if you like what we're talking about here and just want to hear less of it the Apple Insider daily is about 10 minutes-ish every day recapping the news of the day and that is a very pleasant quick listen I usually listen to it alongside the Apple news uh today uh program that's also about 10 minutes about world news um and then we also have The homekit Insider podcast that I do with Andrew every week that comes out on Mondays um that is a pretty fun show about home automation apple homekit and things Technologies surrounding it uh if you would please go to the Apple podcast app or your podcast of choice give us a review don't just give us Stars throw down some text tell us exactly why you love us or why you hate us um it's been an interesting few reviews since Stephen has left I think people are a little upset about that but I know that there are some five-star reviews out there that haven't taken the time to write it down yet so please we'd love to hear from you guys reach out and I would like to thank our sponsors once again sandbox and fast growing trees for sponsoring the show and uh we'll talk to you next weekhello and welcome to the Apple Insider podcast this is your host Wesley H speaking and Today's Show is sponsored by sandbox and fast growing trees I'm joined Again by William Gallagher how you doing today oh I'm gr thank you how are you are you still wearing Vision Pro or is that's over now that's P actually I haven't taken it off in about 3 weeks um all right not yeah not even to shower it's uh kind of kind of crazy okay oh all right there's actually there's actually a YouTube video of someone showering with apple Vision Pro on yeah I don't understand it but are they supposed to be waterproof or is no okay there's literally exhaust vents in the top that go straight to the circuitry so I'm sure they destroyed that headset doing that video right well you know what the it's only $35,000 what's that and if that's have a second take I'm sure they had a spare one ready like all professional YouTubers do oh no apparently they've all returned them if you haven't read all of the news I know we covered a little bit last week but it's just the article titles keep getting more and more aggressive about it it's it's really quite fun right okay um right but well so today we're going to play uh another uh round of where is Wesley's Mac today so okay uh what do you think now that I've been using Vision Pro primarily what do you think I've done with my MacBook Pro I think it's right in front front of you so that you can connect to it like a proper Mac Uso with Vision Pro yeah so so turns out I've purchased a bookshelf for my office and uh one of the shelves is the perfect height to uh put my MacBook Pro with the 12 South uh book Arc to stand it upright so in the corner of my office uh there's a little bookshelf with my MacBook sitting on the on the bottom shelf with a cable running down there's a cabinet section in the very bottom uh and in that cabinet is a small portable monitor so that way it can uh be turned on and I have a magic mouse on my desk that is turned off but if I want to wake my Mac and connect to it in Vision Pro I turn on the Magic Mouse wiggle it and the Mac wakes with the screen on underneath the cabinet and then I connect to it in Vision Pro the display turns off under the cabinet and now I have a Mac in my vision Pro and my MacBook is on a bookshelf no I thought you I thought you might find that amusing well faintly horrifying actually but hang on a minute uh by chance uh last week when we recorded it the moment we finished recording I had to go somewhere and it's too complicated to explain why I had to bring my office Mac Mini with me so I did and Mac Min is a very small but the monitor very big so I didn't bring that I used it as a headless Mac with my iPad Pro as the monitor into it using uh screens app so is there no way to do something like that with Vision Pro you can't well you can run things headless um it's just Max or no Mac no Max or finicky um let's see what's his name Luke meani on YouTube uh ripped a monitor off of a MacBook Air the the display half and was still able to connect the keyboard half uh using the same connection feature and utilize the keyboard and trackpad which is interesting um as a concept like I don't think Apple's everever going to ship a trackpad keyboard Mac without a display like that but um definitely cool in concept yeah you say cool I that's horror ripping it apart that's murder it it was pretty aggressive so I would definitely say that um it's definitely not I I wouldn't want to do that because I still want a functional MacBook right if I if I need it if I if I don't have the Vision Pro I still want to have a display to look at but um no for whatever reason um it's difficult to get a Mac to do anything when there's not a monitor attached and you can fake it with like an HDMI plug uh that tells it that a monitor is attached there's ways to do this um and that could work but right now what I had on me was a portable monitor I've not touched in months sitting in a closet that I could just plug in I didn't rather than ordering a new complicated Contraption I just just hook this little guy up and it worked perfectly so I might get more complicated later but for now this works I use an app called screens which I used to use um when I didn't have a MacBook Pro and I would be at somewhere on my iPad I use it on that to connect into my office Mac and for some reason and who knows why two years ago it stopped connecting like that but while I'm in the house or while I'm on the same Wii Network it works fine so I switched on the the Mac Mini I remember remembered my password without being able to see where I was typing it just kind of waited it was probably waiting for the password gave it a few moments to launch all it stuff and then straight in through my iPad you know it's frankly sophisticated way of doing it compared to your stringing wires everywhere and Luke Milani's wait a minute stringing wires the bookshelf has a pass through it's fine yeah all right but hang on sorry I'm bit slow hereit Luke Milani ripped the top off a Mac Book but you can just close the lid on a MacBook and use an again when the lid's closed you can't actually do anything for what that like it it really aggress the system aggressively sleeps uh when you shut the lid unless there's an external monitor connected oh okay I was forgetting that bit about external monitor CU I've seen people use it clam shell mode okay right that makes as I speak so the good thing about the book Arc and the MacBook is it's portable so I grab it off the shelf carry it over to my desk now this again I'm going to get more complicated later and probably run my microphone wire to the Bookshelf cuz the bookshelf's next to my desk um so I don't have to move the MacBook but today I moved it to my desk plug it into the Thunderbolt cable it's normally reserved for my iPad and that's how we're recording this podcast is the macbook's currently connected to a studio display but I'm not looking at it on the studio display I'm looking at it inside the headset so you know very all all fun and modularity at the end of the day this is not Vision Pro podcast no no it isn't nor is it the William hasn't plugged Mac Mini back in in a week podcast but it could be I'm actually surprised to realize cuz it's you're recording more less at the same time it is precisely seven days since I took the Mac Mini away and it's lying behind me not plugged back in again I've done everything in the week on my MacBook Pro wherever what aren't MacBook Pros wonderful they're pretty great and see this is this gets back to a older discussion we had about how I wanted to replace my MacBook with a Mac Mini that just sits maybe on this bookshelf uh in perpetuity but I've realized since Apple Vision Pro came out man wouldn't it be great to have a Macbook and I saw I can't remember who said it exactly it's probably uh someone along the lines of Federico vtii or John grber but um they mentioned wouldn't it be perfect if a M3 12-in MacBook existed for Vision Pro it would be like the perfect companion you could pull this thing out anywhere put on the headset and Bam now you have a miniature keyboard trackpad perfectly compatible with Vision Pro and it all works of course over battery power that only lasts about 2 hours but anyway but s hang on am I I I can't work out whether I've guessed this or heard it somewhere you can only use Vision Pro with a Macbook you can't you can't connect it to a Mac Mini or Mac Studio no no no that was um a mistake uh you can use it with desktops absolutely well then it's just buy yourself the Mac Mini and way off you go well I can't take the Mac Mini to a I mean iess could take it to a coffee shop and plug it in with a Vision Pro or something but at that point I would prefer something portable with a keyboard and trackpad attached like yeah okay I see your point that yes okay but this is an apple Sports podcast actually today um Apple uh as well I guess yesterday as we record Apple released a apple Sports app a very odd piece of software I don't know if you've had a chance to poke at it but it's kind of empty until it isn't um this was definitely one of the weirdest onboarding experiences I've had with an Apple app I just turned it on and it was just kind of hey um there's nothing happening today just okay uh it doesn't give you any instructions obviously they need to fix the onboarding cuz it should let you choose teams right off the bat or something or maybe maybe it glitched out for me but uh have you have you messed with this app oh it's a sports app people you hold me back I was running towards that which football team will I add first um first I'd have to think of a football team and that that could take a while uh no basically I didn't I'm I I feel almost guilty now but it never crossed my mind to even try that it surprised me how many people reached out angry that the NFL wasn't a available to follow or NCAA football in America um considering the season is over right all right just it I think Apple made a mistake here because they have the capability it's all built into Apple news if anyone who has already wants Apple news or even Apple TV I believe has this functionality built in you can choose your favorite sports team and have those highlighted and in whatever way uh that is a part of Apple Sports and if you already had team selected like I had the Nashville MLS team selected and that showed up in apple sports but guess what uh sport uh Team level stats aren't available yet so it's just gray out I can't even click on it um but that's the only thing that showed up despite me having NFL and um NCAA football team selected as well in Apple news the functionality is there but Apple just chose not to include it because I guess they figured it would be confusing to users but instead they're just mad that they can't you know choose the Broncos or something I did notice CU I actually WR the news story saying it was out um just you know here it is this is where you get it that kind of news story uh the list of teams it supported I I got the fact that it was listing ones who are playing now and that later when seasons start uh others will be added I didn't actually realize that Sports Seasons run at different times of the year but okay I noticed the Premier League was L did there and I know that's a UK um football thing but there are many many other I mean many many other football things in Britain so is it just is that really just the only one that's playing now or the only one apples heard of well I mean there's several leagues in the list and it's mostly I mean baseball starts in a few days in America MLS started um when this app came out uh so they wanted it to debut alongside Messi's debut and I I think that was the point um but there's also uh basketball hockey um All-American leagues but then there's um of course multiple foreign leagues which I won't even try to bother to pronounce but you can go check it out um but like different French leagues of different things but all all of the foreign stuff looks like uh foreign football soccer whatever you want to call it uh for now I everyone's asking where's NASCAR where's uh which is the American Racing sport where's F1 wears wait a minute wait a minute you choose NASCAR to explain to me but all the other initials have just gone straight back well I don't know I feel like I mean these are pretty widely known NBA just you know basketball ho but I didn't say the letters that time William you weren't paying attention I said the name of the sport trying to help you out here well glossed over when you were talking about sport that's that's almost hard to believe what the thing is I expect you to be a sports fan because you play games don't you and isn't it just the same thing except instead of you playing it's however many people are in the football team I enjoy the idea of sports I can't get into it I'm not one of those I I like being in a room with other people who are really excited about a team playing today and I'm just eating chicken wings in the corner like that's that's my experience with sports um I'll root for the Tennessee Volunteers whenever they're playing um I understand what the rivalries are I just I I've tried to force myself to care I just can't I don't care um I don't care who the coach is I don't care who the quarterback is yada y it's just something about my brain just doesn't connect with it in the way that other people do and I'm jealous of that I kind of wish I could get into it that way cuz it seems fun but anyway this isn't Chen Wings chicken wings delicious I've been getting into hotter and hotter uh hot sauces and just uh making everyone around me very sad and worried for my health okay but in any case this is an interesting app I think it'll evolve with time I think it's going to pull in Apple stocks and and pull in the sports features from Apple news eventually I would like to see that Sports tab go away in Apple news and become customizable uh we've discussed that before well every time I look at it I think well I want the crosswords feature to come to the UK so that's my big aim but every time I think why am I I I'm not knocking sportly just for me it's an alien language I will never look in there and I can't bear Apple news Plus on a Saturday because you start reading a headline and it sounds really Ser oh it's sport again you know and yeah so just kind of filter out some things would be nice and that button yes I could use that for other things please app's apps are designed uh to be the simplest most basically they want to provide an example for other developers to say this is what your app should look like if it's a Notes app this is what your app should look like if it's a news aggregator or now a sports thing or an A a journal app and it's kind of their idea of condensing these things down into the most minimal perfect Apple version of that app and I and I like that Apple does that I really hope other developers take a look at this app and say huh we should try that um the app of course is very limited it's filled with sports betting if you don't want to see the odds I don't even understand what the odds mean honestly I I kind of get it maybe there's there's a spread um and like a money line I I don't know uh but the these appear everywhere um you can turn that off in settings so if you don't care about that um weird thing that's become very legal across the United States um yeah you can you can turn that off and see only the scores and team stats and stuff and that's nice for this app uh it's going to have live activities eventually there's a lot of features coming but for now there's a if a game is live you get a link to the Apple TV app to whatever it's playing on which is something other apps don't do ESPN because it's a Disney property only links to other ESPN apps and ABC which is useless yeah so yeah this this will be interesting I'm surprised about live activities because I remember when live activities first came along uh Sports was the example everybody gave for it I mean I've used it for flights and things I think it's great but I just unthinkingly assumed the new app had live of activities as well so I saw someone describe I I'll attribute it to Steve Shon Smith if it might be him but uh he said this looks like a um a weekend project done by a college student um kind of development level and I tend to agree it it it does kind of look like apple uh woke up a month and a half ago and I was like wait a minute MLS starts this year why don't we have a sports app and just assigned it to some intern and told them all right we need to show at least the score and uh the spread and and whatnot get it done by Messi's debut it needs to debut alongside of that so they had a deadline there's probably a few people assigned to this I'm exaggerating of course but they had a deadline so whatever features they could get done to at least show information that they already have access to they already have access to the scores uh live updates the play byplay all of this information is in Apple news and in Apple TV apps already they just needed to create an app Sur a rapper surrounding it and and they did a great job I think it's just um they had to ship so there's a reason why this stuff's missing um it's only going to grow from here I think that's true is it if everything Apple do like it food well actually including the Vision Pro and vision OS I'm sure my my mind's gone to pages and things like that which you're saying you like Apple's Simplicity approach as minimist approach and I like it very much because it felt like always feels like Apple thinks your work is the important thing whereas Microsoft thinks it is daning to allow you to use its many features but I do know people that uh believe Pages can't do as much as word because it's not in their face doing things for it so burden menus yeah yeah like yeah yeah so you have to click on the my leagues or my team button at the top and then start adding things in order for content to populate otherwise it's an empty screen which again I found a little the same thing happened with the journal app the first time you open it there's a plus button that's about all you have there wasn't even a plus button for this app and I feel like apple needs to be better about onboarding again maybe mine glitched out and there is onboarding I just didn't see it but in any case one last note on this app um it's designed specifically with sports in mind they want to get the information to you as it's happening if you ever used um other sports aggregator apps that spring scores and there's there's uh popular ones that have live activities that's for uh viewing many different things including uh F1 and whatnot if you ever have that open next to a live game you'll notice the live game is minutes if not maybe not minutes but at least a minute ahead you know there's there's several seconds between them so you might be on your phone getting information people have had for multiple minutes and that is crucial in a game especially maybe if you're betting on it because that's a thing people do now um so Apple's goal with this was to get information as live as close to live as possible and I think they've achieved that with this one that seems like it's pretty um quick I opened a Premier League game yesterday and uh it was interesting seeing how all of that flowed in but again it'll be even better once live activities launch got to tell you I'm now looking at my F1 key very suspiciously I trusted that function key but you know if it's going to be late I don't I probably missed the point there haven't I I'll shut up now okay you should know what F1 is well you don't live under a rock um um I don't want to say corruption was the first word that popped into my mind uh alongside allegedly um I might be thinking of a different sport altogether I think I am really I mean you're thinking of all sports I'm fairly certain but that's not the that's not the point speaking of all sports um Apple wants to have the Vision Pro involved in more things so they have at least promised openly that there will be a kind of after the fact so after a game is played or after like a um very important MLS game is played maybe uh there will be highlights and kind of a documentary style um after like uh gosh what am I looking for sports highlights from the game but shot entirely for the Vision Pro in 3D from impossible seats like above the goal or near the goal line in the field whatnot um shared after the fact so sports fans can go relive those moments but in full spatial 3D and I I I find that interesting I think that would be really fun for American football a lot of sports uh would actually be really cool I think if uh Apple could buy a NASCAR team or something wouldn't it be wild to have a spatial camera attached to one of these vehicles or something oh forget that give everybody Apple Vision Pro now oh right no NASCAR driving at uh what is it 200 300 miles an hour just have the uh have people strap A Vision Pro to their headset or something you know yeah okay I might even watch a minute or two I've been to one half of one football game in my life and it was a job I was working there and I got out it was weirdly uh the atmosphere is very strange there so uh but I've never actually watched a match on television ever I I can enjoy watching baseball I prefer watching it live I football's fine like American football I I don't I don't understand watching soccer um it's it's fun like the excitement is there but I just it again it's just I'm I'm exhausted watching them run for 30 minutes straight uh yeah I can cope with that um yeah let them let them run I can read a book I tell I have actually enjoyed a Wimbledon match and I can't remember which one it was but yes okay so I'm not anti Sports just not into it at all but there we go one last sport uh basketball uh it appears that there were cameras uh used for um spatial recording found during the um what is it there was a slam dunk contest yeah Slam Dunk Contest again cool uh like imagine having a camera near or above the goal and uh at the on the court and if you've experienced I know you haven't William but if you've used The Vision Pro um for the Alicia Keys uh imersive video you can see cuz you you jump around I just heard myself echo that was weird um you can see the cameras that are used to record what's happening around the room and they have them in these like beautiful white boxes they almost look like shelves so if you didn't know to look for the lenses you wouldn't probably would miss it and just say wow that's an odd piece of furniture um this camera at the NBA game was similar but it was less disguised it was this black ugly thing with two holes in the front um I think we're going to see more of these in different places and I'm glad that Apple's trying to capture uh we don't know this is Apple this is a rumor we just saw a 3D camera at a basketball game uh but it's probably for this or at least someone is recording it maybe there's a new documentary coming to meta Quest who knows uh but I I feel like we're going to see more of these things uh other places I'm just surprised that they did not do this for the halftime show at the Super Bowl oh good point I knew there was a making of sorry my mind's on you hearing an echo of yourself I I didn't hear it but I think that means uh Wes you're in special audio M all right you heard it here first and possibly last but okay right um well I'd really like to try some of the experiences like Alicia Keys would be like the first thing I'd watch but things like this the Star Trek Experience uh omn focus is now in test flight um on it so I'm ever more keen to try this but possibly not for sports I don't know if you picked up on that at all this week's episode is brought to you by the AI email management tool sanbox now you cannot get me off email I love Amil is the greatest but whether you feel the same way or not you're unlikely to love the number the sheer volume of email that you have to answer and that seems to come at you just when you need to concentrate on something else same box just sorts that out whatever email service you use sbox provides a set of tools that that can help you take sane reminders for example uh you're emailing someone if you BCC the address one week at sandbox.com that's the digit one in the word week so one week at sandbox.com you send it off and you put that email completely out of your mind until a week later without you doing anything else without you having to think about it or take the time to chase something if your recipient has not replied in one week sanbox knows and will send you a reminder it's great for delegating tasks and knowing that you don't have to keep track of other people and whether they've done what they've said they will or and this is really good the same applies to you you can give yourself a nudge to make sure you do something um for instance we've just had Valentine's Day but say that or or something else is still coming up you could send an email to the address uh fe14 2 pm sandbox.com so February 14th 2 p.m. Feb 14.2 PM sandbox.com uh give it a subject like buy that book your partner wants and yeah you already know where this is going at 2:00 on the afternoon of February the 14th you will get that email popping up on all of your devices there's a lot more like that that you can do with the reminders and actually sbox has full clear documentation on its website but even before you've done that before you look into any of the detail once you get sbox it is immediately helping you out its AI identifies what email is actually important it organizes away everything else and it gets better and better as you use it sbox is a PC Magazine top productivity tool of 2024 and it has just a slew of features to help keep you staying on top of your inbox find out for yourself find out how same boox can help your time and your concentration with with a free 2E trial visit sbox.jpg if you what's the nails b line uh if you think you understand quantum mechanics you're wrong that kind of thing or is it no it's more than that um it's like if you're not you know blown over blown apart mind blown by that you don't understand it I should look up the real quote couldn't I a little bit uh but you've got quantum mechanics on your mind and I'm thinking a leap from Nascar to Quantum Mechanics there's probably a connection there um why are you bringing this up now is it just uh list of things to test me on for some reason well so Apple obviously has quantum mechanics on their mind because they're worried about Quantum Computing eventually being able to crack iMessage encryption and this is something we've heard of before um the FBI uh for instance when they were trying to get apple to build back doors to the iMessage system uh gosh San berardino uh I always ruin that word but um that whole incident um I remember being a part of the story being that the FBI and several police precincts around the United States just have drawers of locked iPhones waiting for the day that someone just can crack into these things and um this is there's actually a uh like official term for this it's called Harvest now decrypt later oh and the hope is yeah the hope is that eventually Computing will get so good so powerful so fast uh that even apples encryption will be able to be broken we'll be able to get into these devices and finally discover who the real terrorists are and actually sorry there's a a term in the UK called cold cases I don't know if that's in the states as well investigating long ago crimes at some point today's phones will be long enough ago the people will get into them and all of that data all of these crimes that could be solved that all sorry I need to go write a film now so so so basically the idea is right now um um if you want to get into someone's system breaking that encryption requires just kind of brute forcing it guessing the encryption key number and letter by number and letter which leads to millions and billions of combinations that can just take Millennia if a computer right now sequentially tried to break down even one iMessage encryption protocol it could take a thousand years unless it just got lucky uh the idea of quantum Computing would mean that it would able would be able to do this much faster if not nearly instantly uh minutes rather than years um so Quantum Computing is very powerful we're not going to get into why or how CU um that's above even our pay grade I've met people who work on Quantum Computing very smart very smart people um not not too distant from the nuclear field just a different branch I suppose but in any case what happens is Apple has decided okay Quantum Computing will eventually be a thing we're already seeing signs of it now but it's just it's far enough away that it's still not really a present danger there's no way this can happen today it's too expensive to even attempt it and the computers that do exist just they're not built for this so Apple has built a system to change how encryption works for iMessage instead of giving you one encryption key um and you can correct me if I'm wrong did you write this story no I knew there was an iMessage improv but I didn't realize it was at Quantum level so no this is all new to me so so Apple isn't doing anything Quantum to to be clear U but they're protecting themselves against Quantum uh Computing so more or less because this there's there's a thousand words here in this article go go read it uh it'll help you understand this better but to give you the broadest overview basically what's happening is instead of encrypting um giving you an encryption key that can unlock the iMessage directory inside of your phone which if someone cracked it then they would have access to the ire history and everything um apple is doing it in kind of bundles now but they can't do it per message maybe it'll eventually get to that point because it's just we'll we'll be that good at it or whatever but right now it's bundling up groups of messages they didn't say how many I think they're trying to keep that all abstract but um slices of your message conversation have different keys so that even if someone got a hold of your iMessage conversation and tried to decrypt any one of the key they would only see like hey hello how are you you know love you Mom and then that would be the entire conversation they would see um and they would have to get incredibly lucky to find the juicy bits that they were actually looking for and again they would have to decrypt multiple Keys which takes time computing power money and even when quantum computers become more readily available it's still a timeconsuming expensive process to try to decrypt hundreds of different keys for a single conversation so I think this is a smart way to go about about it um what what do you think it's shipping with iOS 174 and the rest of them what I'm thinking what what I'm getting from this is that I should start all my most illicit message threads with hi Mom how are you love you to see great weather that kind of thing and then only on the third part go into the um and where should we which bank should we rob tonight that kind of thing is that what you're saying is that your advice uh for the safety of the future not quite because I think the the attacks can be more sophisticated than just starting at the beginning um they could probably try to get within a date range I don't I again this is all above our pay grade I don't know what a encrypted file looks like if it's just I understand it's a jumble of nonsense but um perhaps they can look for date codes and isolate what they're looking for I I have no idea but um that this system though um actually makes some little bit of sense to me I again I I I recommend everyone just go go Apple released information on this there's a fun little diagram and they kind of it's one of the rare examples of Apple kind of calling out competitors in on a piece of paper um they're talking about so this chart that's I I put in the show notes for William's sake um there's different levels of uh cryptography and level zero is Skype Telegram and WeChat um level one is inry end encryption by default which is where iMessage used to be well if you're on 17.3 today that's where it is currently alongside apps like line Viber and WhatsApp uh level two and level three don't have competitors listed um so this is the postquantum cryptography basically Apple building cryptography focusing on defeating Quantum Computing um Apple isn't focused on level two which basically is only looking at um creating the postquantum crypto graphy Keys one at a time for an entire set Apple's going all the way to what they call level three where they're establishing these keys and rekeying them periodically for different groups of messages and eventually this will get a even higher level Apple hasn't labeled but where they're going to add an additional layer of authentication on top of this uh to prevent further attacks so very Advanced very interesting and I don't think any of this really matters to the average user but it's cool that Apple's into this length because a lot of government institutions use iPhones you're saying that there about how it's quite rare for Apple to call out Rivals I think I was working on this week because there was a report that uh Microsoft and meta are lobbying the EU uh to say that apple is not complying uh with this whole thing of the the third party app stores that apple is uh just not doing it right I suppose is the way or not doing it the way those two companies went and apple issued a state on the record uh obviously in response to this directly after it but not naming any of those companies just laying out its case again of uh it's concerned about security it's doing this for that is trying to be helpful for users but also all along the way it was and we did this for a year with the European commission and it was like duh we did it with them it can't be not complying and things like that and I thought that was quite close to strident actually for a state I mean from apple yeah apple again I think people are just mad that the the system as it is written um apple is complying with but they're just not happy with how the system is written this is the problem with regulation and we can do a whole show on this um everyone wants Apple to be regulated well not everyone but people who want Apple to be regulated think it's a magic solution that's going to fix everything and it's like no regulation can solve some problems but it creates new ones because the Regulators generally don't know what they're talking about and the people who have these problems aren't the ones writing the bills writing legislature they don't know what they're asking for they think that they've covered all the bases that they've screwed Apple into a corner that they can only comply in the way that the you know people like epic games or Microsoft or Facebook want to see happen and it's just not the case there's no such thing as a perfect law there's no such thing as a perfect Bill to lock you into this corner that makes everyone one happy it's just not going to happen so that's why um there's a story we can cover here in a moment uh about a meditation app but uh that's a little later if we have time but they're approaching Apple by having conversations with the development team by talking the Apple themselves trying to be really nice about it more or less and actually just get in underneath and say look we're this team this is what we're trying to do we're not trying to steal candy from babies we just want these um meditation teachers to be able to be tipped what can we do to not have to pay a commission on this and they're trying to work forward with apple versus you know releasing a uh coopera Cooperative planned effort and attack to secretly include a inap purchase and an entire advertisement industry surrounding a new lawsuit that's taken to the Supreme Court yeah I think the two methods are very different and one's going to work over the other one makes Apple very angry and one makes Apple more considerate and we'll see which one works in the end of course but I don't think epic's ever going to get what they want no I mean epic wants a free ride and who doesn't I suppose but I do remember thinking when just specifically the epic thing when that kicked off the first day it happened it seemed like apple was being very heavy handed getting rid of them and you knew there was something more to it but then you find out that apart from uh epic going on about oh we're standing up for the little person and this is a terrible thing we must respond they' actually planned to incite it for for several months they'd filmed a video ready for it and things like that I think they were stupid to tell us that but we would have guessed it eventually anyway and the moment all of that was going on I thought all right big corporation uh out for itself doesn't care about us and I kind of Switched Off from them um and previously I was as being such a gamer I was in Fort is it fortnite yeah I was in fortnite every two weeks or something like that um yeah okay fortnite copied the robot model so they could make more money I mean come on there there's nothing altruistic about that company but anyway I think uh we have a little bit more time for more Apple Vision Pro information we'll keep this one quick because we've already talked about it a little bit but I Believe on last week's episode correct me if I'm wrong we talked a little bit about the travel case right yes this strange uh thing it reminds me of the prisoner and the big white bubble like thing but you've got one i' take it and you wrote the review didn't you that was coming out yes so there there the review is out and people are a little upset that I gave it two stars um I explain heavily in the review that I actually like this uh device but our review system isn't for me it's for everyone else it's just not a very good travel case um I think it's a good storage case honestly it's a nice place to put Vision Pro when I'm not using it or if I do need to take it somewhere at least I have an option I'm going to be looking at different options later but this is what I had at the time um so the best option is the only one you have kind of thing but no two store two stars I I I'll stand by it it's it's it's gigantic uh someone was arguing with me that um people reg regularly commute with 35 L bags do you measure bags and liters over there no just big ones and little ones actually now I think you can find out you know but it's never I've never been it's not something that comes up it's not a general conver you have to be a backpack like Enthusiast to know what sizes backpacks are cuz I agree I've never heard another human being other than nerds mention a backpack's lader size but um if you think about it a 10 L bag would hold maybe um an iPad Pro with a magic keyboard a set of headphones and a controller and you would quickly be running out of space at that point but it'd be very slim very light uh 15 L you have room for a Macbook and a Macbook and and an iPad and have a compartment space for multiple things including a changey clothes snacks like that that five lers actually makes quite a difference 21 lers would get you um that's more of an overnight so now you have enough room for an overnight bag rather than just commuting there's just more more space for more things 35 liters this person was arguing was like oh yeah you can regularly I regularly travel or uh commute commuting meaning going to and from work with this bag a 35 L bag would weigh like an incredible amount I'm not even going to put a weight to it because whatever I guess would be wrong but um it's it would just it's just gigantic and we're getting to the point where I'm thinking of my seabag and what you call a cabag in the milit in in the Navy anyway is that giant green bag that you see people leaving to go deployment with um so what level do you need to be carrying for the Vision Pro travel case to make sense and 15 L is too small 21 L you're taking up half of the compartment um so you have room for maybe a bag of chips and a t-shirt on top of it um so that's why you're getting into the 30s before the travel case becomes travelable and maybe you're getting on an airplane with a 35 L case as long as that backpack actually meets the um length and width requirements of carryon sure uh but no it's just it's just too big if it takes up half of my 21 L backpack which is my personal large bag if I'm traveling big that's my big bag that's what I take with me it's that's I pack like three days worth of stuff in that thing um and this takes up half of that and Vision Pro is much much smaller than this case so I just find it very odd that Apple would call it a travel case they should have called it a storage case got a minut I'm tempted now to pour water into my various bags to see how much they contain but I'm certain what the one I regularly commute with is uh at least 40 lers cu the thing is I'm obviously stronger than you with all the sports that I play that's you see that's how it works out yeah okay do you do you know the name of your bag um it's actually unfortunately discontinued it's I've got a bungo bag um and I blanked on the name of the company the company still exist and they're really good Nomo bags uh k n o o uh basically n them but they all sell in the states they make gorgeous bags and I overload this one ridiculously with things in fact so much so uh it was on the passenger seat of my car the day were driving somewhere and the car kept in believed it was a person I had so much on there and it was flashing the why aren't they wearing their seat belt sign that's funny you got to buckle it up exactly so what I would like from a for me personally so I'm going to be trying a few of these cases to to I'll you'll see reviews eventually um not don't don't expect it soon still waiting on them to arrive so that's pretty early in the review process waiting to actually review the thing but um I'm going to be looking at these I think my favorite might be the Waterfield yes you have to detach the bands every time and people in the comments saying this I think none of them own a Vision Pro it is incredibly simple you just snap a little thing and and the oh right I didn't know that and and the band comes off it's a quarter of a second and now you have H you've returned half of the volume of your backpack just because of that um I so I think that case is going to be really nice uh there's going to be a few others there's some cheap ones on Amazon people have been recommending that are fine for getting the job done um I think I what I would like to see which no one's probably going to make because Vision Pro is such a low volume object I think it would be interesting to see a backpack with like a compartment designed for Vision Pro inside of it um kind of like how every bag now has a laptop sleeve why not have a headset sleeve somewhere inside of a bag did you uh ever use airpods max I'm wearing them right now all right uh did you get the the case for it the the bra shaped case well that's included with it right that sleep wake to me actually um I suppose I don't know whether I mean I've never even seen it so I don't know how how it feels and things but uh is it just for storage on site or would you travel with that as a protector um it sits on a shelf of my office until I leave anywhere with it but if I travel with my airpods they go in that case because it sleeps it so the battery doesn't drain and it protects it it prevents scratches on the aluminum shells you know so it's a useful travel um mechanism it goes in a bag um next to everything else um seems very neat design to me whereas The Vision Pro one seems kind of bulbous in a way so just surpr it's silly because everyone's like oh I need a travel case for my airpods Max but it triples the size of the airpods max when you put it in a case versus the um quote unquote bra that people complain about I actually don't don't mind it it's fine good to me but yeah okay I also wrote about the inserts so if you had questions about the um Optical inserts go check that out it's just a little Hands-On there's not much to say they're eyeglass inserts to help you see but maybe you don't know how to order them or you don't know what's covered because it doesn't cover every eye condition and it doesn't cover every prescription option some prescriptions are too strong for Zeiss to make currently so yeah certain the Apple Vision Pro is actually quite the exclusionary product it's one of the few Apple things one of the few things Apple makes that some people just cannot use period um uh at least today that that will change with time as things get better it'll get easier to make certain types of inserts different companies might make inserts for it but certain types of Correction like prism correction just you cannot do that with the zece lenses but if you can correct your vision using uh soft contacts you don't even need inserts so just keep that in mind are the inserts easy to take in and take out again yes there the the magnetic level is very light I've actually dropped the Vision Pro before and they just they kind of pop out like airpods out of the case you've dropped the Vision Pro well it hit a carpet it's fine okay all right not a scratch yeah no it was one of those stupid moments where I'm sitting in a chair at my desk and the cable caught on the arm when I was backing away and it just pulled the Vision Pro into like but like I think it kind of swung from the cable and then just grazed the floor so it didn't like Drop straight down to the floor there was no damage it's just like a oops I need to pay attention to that from now on and it hasn't happened since so I just I have the same that it did it in slow motion just for emphasis as it got nearer to the bottom and then yeah okay drama excitement so when do you think the Apple Vision Pro 2 is coming out I'm not talking about Apple vision air or SE or what have you what do you when do you think alision Pro the sequel uh it feels too early if it's exactly a year away um but then two years feels too long um uh a year and a quarter year and a half year and three quarters maybe um right so I'm trying to get I feel like you know the answer and I'm trying to get it really um a year and a half okay I've plump for that I'm a sports betting man I'm putting my money on a year and a half please tell me I'm right so Mark Garmin says agrees with you about 18 months so this isn't new information this has actually been heavily discussed um in the rumor Sphere not by anything too credible I don't think but every supply chain information and such points to at a minimum 18 months so from release not announcement so everyone's like oh but they announced Vision Pro in June 2020 uh3 so that means it'll come out the next version's coming out in 25 that's great no that's um not how this is going to work so people confused by this this product right now today there's there might be $500,000 uh 500,000 units by the end of the year maybe 600,000 if we're being really generous according to estimates this isn't these aren't my numbers I didn't make them up um so in a year less than a million in two years we might hit maybe 2 million penetration and uh some estimates put um it taking up to 3 years before we even can consider consider getting close to a 10 million penetration uh and that's only on shipments not on sales so of course um this and at this price so we're talking about a product that's difficult to make low volume high price how often do you think like I don't I don't understand people's need I okay I do people think that if this comes out with an updated model next year it's going to be this radical new design that's lightweight and amazing and cost $1,000 that's everyone usual thought process here no if the if if Apple does anything they might update the chipset I don't think that's going to happen either because again they're undermining their own supply chain at that point this is a 26 fall 27 spring at the soonest for the announcement of the device let alone release uh as for Apple Vision Pro 2 at least that's my that's my estimate um you can write it down tell me I'm wrong when they announce it in 6 months but um I just I don't believe that this is an even an 18mon device I'm interested in the time of year because I was thinking things like um Apple watch always gets announced around the same time as the iPhone and originally it's cuz you kind of had to you had to have an iPhone with the watch and also the watch was small enough that it needed the attention and now I think it doesn't it could spread out on its own to the point of the year would you announce a New Vision Pro on the heels in the same in within a month or two of the iPhone launch or would you try to push it somewhere else in the year this is this is uh an iPad treat it like an iPad uh especially the iPad Pro um which usually is an 18 to 24 month cycle um but I'm I'm putting this closer to a 24 to 36 month cycle um but it it's just going to land where it lands uh it could be a spring release it could be an October release this is a device I think that falls in the iPad Lane so of course maybe it'll get its own um event uh I don't think it could be announced alongs alongside some iPads and a March event maybe but this is definitely not an here's an iPhone here's some airpods and Vision Pro the end that that's not how Apple's going to do it it's going to get its own giant time slot in one of these events this week's episode is brought to you by fast growing trees did you know fast growing trees it's the biggest online Nursery in the US with more than 10,000 different kinds of plants and over 2 million happy customers in the US you can grow lemon avocado Olive or fig trees inside your home on top of the wide variety of house plants available fast growing trees makes it easy to order online and your plants are shipped directly to your door in 1 to two days and along with their 30-day alive and Thrive guarantee they offer free plant consultation forever you've got to love that you've got to love that alive and Thrive guarantee I'm not in the US so I haven't been able to buy from Pas trees myself but I have as a gift for a friend in the states and I could buy for her knowing that she get the plant within just one or two days and knowing that fast growing trees has growing and Care advice that's available to her 247 and right now they have the best deals online up to half off on select Plants Plus listeners to our show get an additional 15% off when using the code Apple Insider at checkout that's an additional 15% off at fastgo trees.com using the code appleinsider checkout fastgo trees.com code Apple Insider offer is valid for a limited time tell them we sent you and thanks to fast growing trees for their support of the Apple Insider podcast actually I I think about this a lot because um I think apple is extremely good at when it renounces what it isn't just we finally got it ready it's really really well planned to what will get maximum attention and what will help other things what will hinder other things um I've been hearing the last few days that uh an apple smart ring is going to come out soon and I don't believe it because we've just got the Vision Pro it feels just the the the drama of it the show of it is wrong um do you know what the kind of uh the strength of that ring rumor is cuz I've Just Seen headlines well the apple ring thing has been rumored for a while just like foldables um it's kind of a fad uh rumor Apple obviously is investigating this uh it would be another way to another metric for tracking um heart rate if you're wearing it in Tandon with an Apple watch you could probably get a better uh you could get a twoo ECG right there's M multiple things that this thing could be useful for kind of but it's not going to cover anything the Apple watch doesn't already cover so maybe you'd give people the option of wearing it instead of an Apple Watch which is my assumption and all low people to wear their nicer uh fancy watches but still get some of their health tracking benefits um do you wear an Apple Watch yes I do and there are no watches that are fancier no would wear a ring now uh it depends what it does I had I tried out a uh wear we for work ring uh last year or the year before and I actually found it very handy when I was giving a presentation no it must have been before Co that's the last time I've done slide somewhere and just being able to kind of vaguely gesture at the screen and my thumb catch the side of the Ring to change the slide I like that a lot actually I found that very useful because if you control it through um a clicker you don't really have quite as much ability to gesticulate which I need and if you control it through your phone I've realized people think you're messaging somebody so a ring was actually really good in that purppose yeah William you don't even need a ring uh I think Apple's a little behind I I heard the man who got the brain implant can now control a mouse cursor with his mind right okay yeah uh listen I'll get straight on that after I've watched some football um yeah I don't think the two are compatible I you know that's a shame yeah roooting for both of them okay Apple's so Apple's new iPhone color it's not blue is it Well I this is I'm hearing this but you know I can hold that hope for it a little bit I do I ever explain to you why I like blue on Apple devices uh because it's such an obscure reason I've probably been too embarrassed to tell anybody because it's a quote uh from the BBC uh 30 years ago 40 years ago there was a joke about it in uh one of the uh thing called the computer program a part of the BBC computer literacy project somebody goes to buy a computer and it ends up with do you have it in blue and it's all hilarious and actually it was funny at the time but for some reason it stuck with me and as it turns out when there is a blue iPhone I am now drawn to it the power of Television you know it's tugging me that way whereas you don't care no no you've you've been incepted by the BBC yes okay no so there there is a rumor who knows the credibility here um that the at least there will be yellow and gray fine I mean it it's an iPhone color they happen uh every year we'll we'll we'll see when Apple announces it these are one of those rumors that almost never happen um last year we knew it was going to be three different Shades of Gray and that's kind of what we got that it I don't expect Apple to shock us with color anymore um not since the iMac that was the last time I was surprised by color from Apple from not from now on I expect at least for the next few years it's just going to be kind of O okay there was that green iPhone Pro a couple of years ago which um you know fine if you like green but the advert for it was frightening the green was like biting the side of the screen and things that's that color surprised me a little bit but um so speaking of updates and airpods the airpods max could get an update but this rumor is claiming that it could be a very minimal update uh lacking any any excitement have have you seen this one well no but the headphones I mean I mean I bet there's going to be a lightning will change to USBC but what else could that be well there's a lot because this the headset the headphones I'm wearing right now came out I believe in December of 2019 goodness and uh haven't been updated since so there's a lot of Technology missing from these headphones these $550 headphones that cannot do many of the things the airpods pro can today oh so noise cancelling and things like that is it well it does noise cancelling it just doesn't have the new noise cancelling they're H1 chips so there's technology here it's just the older technology and automatic switching and whatnot is there it's just the older um it's the less good version of all of this um there's no real fine my integration uh like the airpods Pro 2 had um the lossless audio with airpod with uh Apple Vision Pro the lossless audio with apple Vision Pro that airpods Pro 2 with USBC can do um not here it needs a special 5 GHz radio for that oh okay and it's a H2 to H2 connection which these airpods Macs have H1s so hopefully Apple would give us at least a modern version that does as much as the airpods Pro 2 do today that would be a great update I would instantly buy it it would have USBC great but this rumor suggests all Apple's going to do is release a USBC version which I just I think this is just absolutely wrong it's not that that is not going to be the case it's still the same price that it was in 2019 that's cuz oh no there is more than that the original apple pencil came out in 2015 and I think that I mean I know the same model is still on sale I think it's the same price it was uh so so much for you know volume and scale reducing the cost of things so one one last leak uh that's not really too surpris there's one piece of information in here that's actually new um so we've known that the iPad Air is going to adopt the 12.9 in size class it's basically going to borrow the chassis from the existing 12.9 in iPad Pro but the Revelation from this information is how much thinner the new iPad Pro are going to be so the iPad Airs are just going to be the old 11-in iPad Air is going to be the same size the new 12.9 in is the old iPad Pro size at 6.4 mm thickness so it's the air that's at 6.4 mm now bear with me the new 12.9 in iPad Pro will be 5 mm thick it'll be thinner than the iPad Air 5 millim can I just say by the way I love that you said that correctly 5 mm thick cuz I remember so clearly when Apple started saying uh 1 in thin and things like that just to try to make it sound better but yeah try you know I mean God bless marketing I'm all for it but in that case that one amused me um I think it's I have an iPad Pro next to me um the 11 in is 10 point something inch and I can't visualize it being much thinner but I it be thinner than the existing 11-in iPad Pro which is Wild by a whole millimeter this is thinner than the iPod uh touch I believe no the the iPod the the current iPad Pro is thinner than the original iPod Nano is the is the crazy thing the but this five at 5 mm it's it's so much thinner than that and I can't wait to see YouTubers bend it over their knee because they absolutely will oh that's a horrible thought no get that out of my head no no no no no no um I miss the 12.9 in size that I used to have when I had an original uh iPad Pro um I just there's no way I could afford that this time around but every now and again I miss it because with that size it was like two iPads next to each other and you felt like your fingers were kind of in the work you were doing uh so I'd be very tempted by a 12.9 but uh and and with an OLED display I mean this this is going to be a beautiful device I'm excited for it um I think I'm going to be getting one because it's I I found that I'm still using the iPad Pro when I'm not using the Vision Pro so that's nice I so I I think I will be upgrading to this new product get the new uh metal keyboard uh these this rumor is possible I mean these measurements aren't completely out of whack there's just some Oddities for some reason the 11in iPad Pro is going to get a little bit longer but um widthwise it's going to get smaller versus the 12.9 in iPad Pro is getting bigger in both dimensions I don't understand what's happening there um according to these measurements so so who knows we'll see what happens when Apple announces it we're expecting something possibly in March um I that feels too soon for me considering Vision Pro still destroyed my wallet but uh we'll see we'll see what happens as far as ordering these goes I I'm hoping that I'll have some money put away for that by then I'm glad you're still using the iPad h i mean you're such an iPad person uh that I was been meaning to ask you about it it's these devices are slotting into place in your life really yes the I mean the iPad minu is still going around the house with me the iPad Pro with a keyboard I mean I can take my Vision Pro to my room um and use it and I have to watch media but not to work sometimes sometimes I'll just want the comfort of just lounging back I have some pillows just Lounge back on the bed and type something up or whatever and I'll I'll take my uh iPad to do that I'm not going to take the whole Vision Pro and the keyboard and the trackpad and all of that and try and sit on my bed and do do that kind of work um so the iPad still serves their purpose in certain areas uh Vision Pro fits in great in an office environment and certain situations but I think they're very distinct they they're basically the same operating system as far as things go just displayed differently so I want to see what Apple does to further differentiate and better yeah the systems on both devices especially WWDC and jeene it's amazing how close WWDC seems already I mean I know we every it's almost at the end of it I'm thinking I'm doing various things that are in April now and I'm thinking April that's so close to June I'm wishing the year away already this is so iosa 174s beta came out and um the only real interesting thing here um is that Apple has revamped again the battery menu and settings they're always working on this thing and they've changed it so when you open the battery menu you see the battery health rating as instead of a percentage as a word they're they're humanizing it so now if your battery health is good it'll say normal and then otherwise it'll say something other than normal I don't know the other words um but you tap this to open it up and it that's where you'll see your percentage capacity and your cycle count now uh that cycle count used to be an about now it's all under battery which is nice but this is only for the iPhone 15 lineup and so I bring this up because because uh did you see the news Apple dug around on the couch cushions they they they checked around the labs and they found more battery to give us all uh it's pretty pretty fun story yeah it's it seems not worrying but it just I would have thought Apple's testing pre-release engineering verification test or something would work out something like the battery capacity because one imagines the battery capacity is a massive Focus for Apple trying to get as much as they can and to go oh do you think maybe did somebody just drop a zero off a spreadsheet in the lab so basically this is my understanding of what's happened I don't know anything but I understand a lot of engineering processes so this is my guess they had to certify right for something and they always certified iPhone at 500 for 80% so they there's a test that you put the battery through to certify that yes after 500 Cycles the battery will age this much and they were able to consistently prove that get and make the claim in their PR but then Engineers must have looked at the Battery Technology and said you know we could probably get more out of this and maybe not even since maybe iOS 17 wasn't good enough maybe iOS 17.2 they tweaked these systems even further to get more efficiency out of the battery something's changed in the last six months to allow them to do redo the test but at a higher rating so now they've done these the process of testing it at 1,000 Cycles to discover oh actually the battery can survive at this it wasn't as if the battery suddenly changed the software is always changing around this Apple's always tweaking how the battery uh conserves its power and how well it works so I this is a win for customers I I mean I some people are trying to default to not trusting it but I mean the the proof is in the pudding we'll see what happens uh when people start getting over that 500 cycle count if their devices start degrading but it's it means years on your device not months um if this is true I just checked my battery heal thing and you're right it's I'm on the beta it says normal but I kind of want it to say extraordinary that's what I want sort that out Apple no okay you're just looking at me now okay but I didn't know that about the test so the only thing I knew about iOS 17.4 is beta is that the been a change to carplay but um as I understand it basically not in my car uh right you need to have a uh instrument Dash that's connected through the carplay system and only modern cars do that like we're talking 2023 at the soonest really uh maybe a couple older cars do but this is not a ubiquitous system and you can't even aftermarket I don't believe but no the just to get back on that engineering tests uh proving different systems they I I believe they all generally work the same way you have a goal to hit so you have to kind of do a proof of concept on that um gosh I was just it's it's tickling the back of my mind and it's escaping me but I was reading about how a company had to geez it is escaping me but they were they were doing basically a test to make sure that a thing worked a thousand times and they had to perform the same test a thousand times to prove that that actually was the true rating of this device like that's how intensive some of these systems can be um when you're doing like the the proof tests on different equipment batteries hinges what what have you it's it's all the same kind of concept you have you're basically proving in the lab that this thing will run the same way uh consistently across a given product and apple was able to confidently say it's kind of like the waterproofing Apple can confidently say your iPhone Will Survive for 5 minutes a depth of 6 M but it's actually better than that in most circumstances and um they Apple just won't say that they're not going to up their water rating because then they're opening themselves to um lawsuits if things go wrong deeper than that but for the battery life thing I think they if their confidence level is that high they would have to be really really confident to say this because again people lawsuits they happen all the time so so you're proving to a minimum uh but it could be well it will all it's like a Baker's Dozen thing isn't it um 13 just to make sure you always deliver 12 at least that I can follow that yeah but it was a nice thing to hear about um especially if I don't upgrade to the iPhone 16 because as you know we've heard from Barkley's Bank the people who would be the people who would know this there isn't going to be anything special about the iPhone 16 at all I believe they have that report prepared every year I I think it actually ships it's just they change the number and it's the same report every year oh I wonder if it's automated with send later and there's a macro that just updates the number before it goes yeah okay right in in 12,000 years the aliens will visit Earth and find a working computer and the article at the top of the screen will be from Barclay's automated system because they forgot to turn it off yes and it'll say the iPhone 175,000 is is not going to be worth it this year skip it it's not but uh that is I believe a good show William do you have anything to add before we drop off no I just I'm surprised again and again every time you talk about I think there something else to ask you about Vision Pro I hope you don't mind me constantly asking this stuff Oh no you're fine it's just it's exciting isn't it a whole new platform A Whole New World for all of this and um yeah I'm very tempted by it mostly from you uh if if anyone has any questions speaking of if anyone has any questions about Vision Pro um after a few weeks of use we're coming up on a month soon of having the device uh I'm going to be writing something about it so if you have any questions about Vision Pro productivity apps what have you how it works what what annoys me about it because there are things I am annoyed by believe it or not um you know reach out on mcadon Twitter email what have you I'd be happy to uh either talk to you there or include it in my writeup that I'm working on currently um but yes as we approach a month it's still an interesting product I am starting to shift my office around it I'm starting to think about workflows and I'm excited to see what developers do with it but um there's still a lot to come to discuss about this device uh but thankfully as maybe you noticed by this episode today we only spent about 7 minutes on Vision Pro so we are dialing it back a little bit guys you can breathe easy it is still the Apple Insider podcast it is not the Vision Pro Insider podcast but that would be a fun one to make it would wouldn't it yes all right let's talk about that okay but yeah for now I'll shut up asking you maybe next week all right so you can find me on Macedon mostly I am active there uh if I see you ping me on Twitter I'll reply but I not guaranteed to see you uh but Mason is the best place to find me William where can they find you online well I noticed the other week Mike wther was on and he said uh basically Apple Insider an email and I realized yeah I love email via my Apple Insider address but I also have a YouTube channel I am more on Twitter and I don't fully know why really but yes I can be found on Twitter as w gallager i I'm around more than you there shall we say it's um we get some good emails uh I've gotten some good listener emails uh talking about the show and asking questions and so join in don't worry you're not the only one out there emailing us um and speaking of I you know we have other shows we have the Apple Insider daily podcast if you like what we're talking about here and just want to hear less of it the Apple Insider daily is about 10 minutes-ish every day recapping the news of the day and that is a very pleasant quick listen I usually listen to it alongside the Apple news uh today uh program that's also about 10 minutes about world news um and then we also have The homekit Insider podcast that I do with Andrew every week that comes out on Mondays um that is a pretty fun show about home automation apple homekit and things Technologies surrounding it uh if you would please go to the Apple podcast app or your podcast of choice give us a review don't just give us Stars throw down some text tell us exactly why you love us or why you hate us um it's been an interesting few reviews since Stephen has left I think people are a little upset about that but I know that there are some five-star reviews out there that haven't taken the time to write it down yet so please we'd love to hear from you guys reach out and I would like to thank our sponsors once again sandbox and fast growing trees for sponsoring the show and uh we'll talk to you next week\n"