Can we become patient gamers who wait to play releases
**The Patience Test: A Discussion with PC Gamer's Chris and Lauren**
In this episode of PC Gamer's discussion, Chris and Lauren dive into the topic of patience when it comes to games. The conversation starts with Lauren, who is eager to share her thoughts on the indie game Rea. "I think it's like really effective the 1.0 or like you know in a year I think it'll be like fantastic so like maybe wait on Rea but also don't wait on Rea because it's an indie game and you should buy it to support them or whatever I guess I don't know this is why I'm not patient," she says.
Lauren continues to express her thoughts on patience, stating that games like Team Fortress 2 are a good example of why people might want to wait before playing. "I played this um really good kind of multiplayer shooter uh it's called Team Fortress 2 it's only been out it's only been out for almost you know 20 years but I would hold off because there's like a bot problem I feel like the developer has a lot of issues like um fixing it and I think they're kind of distracted by this other game they have out um but it's really promising," she explains. Lauren also expresses her willingness to wait for games, stating that she would "hold off" on playing Nightingale in early access due to its rough launch.
**Lauren's Patience Test**
One game that Lauren is being patient with is Lollipop Chainsaw. She admits that she loves the game and is worried about how it will be after hearing that it has a lot of bugs. "I'm going to wait until they fix the bugs and then I'll probably wait for a sale as well and then I'll NAB it and hopefully it's good fingers crossed," she says.
Lauren also discusses her thoughts on games that might not be worth playing at launch, stating that she wants to see if the game will have a bright future. "I don't think people should play something just because it's new or has a lot of hype," she says. "I'm being patient for a game that I don't know if people should be playing yet, but I am waiting on lollipop chainsaw right now cuz I heard apparently it's kind of buggy and I love that game and I'm worried that my memory of the game as well is going to like the the it's going to it's going to be shattered."
**The Impatient Gamer**
Lauren also admits to being an impatient gamer, stating that she doesn't wait for games before playing them. "I would say oh you know what I played this um really good kind of multiplayer shooter uh it's called Team Fortress 2 it's only been out it's only been out for almost you know 20 years but I would hold off because there's like a bot problem I feel like the developer has a lot of issues like um fixing it and I think they're kind of distracted by this other game they have out um but it's really promising," she says.
Lauren also talks about her thoughts on waiting for games, stating that she doesn't want to play them immediately. "I would like to see the finished game and experience it from the beginning rather than go well I'll play it for a while and then wait for it update and then play it again um so that's when I'm I'm hopeful they'll they'll kind of iron everything out and I think I'll wait and see how the 1.0 goes."
**Other Games to Wait On**
The conversation also touches on other games that people might want to wait on, such as Nightingale. Chris mentions that he is being patient with this game due to its rough launch in early access. "I'm just going to do a two for then because I can't think of a game right now that I don't think people should play," he says.
**Subreddit Suggestions**
The conversation also raises the question about whether there is a subreddit for impatient gamers like Lauren. Chris suggests that they might find one, stating that "probably is" one out there for impatient gamers to join.
**PC Gamer Forums**
The episode ends with a reminder to check out PC Gamer's forums for all the latest news, reviews, and discussions on upcoming games.
"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enhey PC Gamers and welcome back to the PC Gamer chat log I'm Lauren Morton and hey everyone I'm Molly Taylor and this week Molly and I are bringing on our senior editor Chris Livingston to talk about patient gaming uh which we may or may not be patient Gamers but Chris has had an experience recently of going back to stardew Valley like eight years after it was first popular uh and you know experiencing that game for the first time so we got to thinking about like what games have we intentionally been patient to play want to talk about like you know the community of technically patient gaming that is on Reddit and I think probably collects other places as well and what the technical rules of being a patient gamer are whether we uh can or do subscribe to those at all uh but before we get to that Molly what did you play last week yeah so as you know this Lauren I have been playing the closed bait for Infinity Nikki which is the like dress up gench and impact right it's the open world dress up RPG um it is very rough around the edges right now like you think yeah I think it's I think it's a little rough around the edges I think there are there are certain bits that I don't love that are still a bit crusty I think I don't love the combat it's like okay it's yeah it's it's like a little juvenile at times in a way that like I mean you I literally sent you a picture of me playing it right I had like a face mask on and like a glass of wine and like there was a point where I was like drinking wine and watching a cut scene that was between like Dada baby and haer and I was like I am a 28y old woman like don't don't let the localization get to you man I was like what am I doing um but no the the it looks so pretty it's very very very very pretty um the clothes amazing I was having way too much fun just hopping around finding like the whim stars that you can use to get like upgrades to your different abilities I like the fishing I don't know how you feel as a fishing hater I like the fishing uh I yeah I had a great time I had a really good time I could definitely see myself I was kind of trying to hold back a little bit because they're like test accounts that are provided to us right they're not so we're not going to get to keep that progress yeah we don't get to keep anything that we do so I was trying to like hold back a little bit from from totally no lifing it uh but I still did a little bit and a couple weeks ago I mentioned that I couldn't wait to be very very annoying about a video game the video game that I was referring to was metaphor ref Fantasia which I mentioned last week that the demo was out I've been playing the whole thing um which I think I did not keep that a very good secret I think I was very I was very bad at pretending like I was just playing the demo yeah I've been playing the full thing you you were playing more than the demo I was playing more than the demo oh my God obsessed obsessed I said last week obsessed um I'm having a fantastic time right now I'm about 50 hours in I want to say I have I've been putting in I haven't putting in the time uh it's it's great uh it's making me it's making me fall in love with jrpgs again it I don't know if it's better than Persona 5 cuz I said it's very close to Persona and it is it's like I want to say like 90% Persona um is it better than Persona 5 Maybe maybe it is I'm having a fantastic time uh it is great that should be out on the 11th this episode should be the 10th so it should be tomorrow it's about to be out yeah so I would definitely recommend uh for all you little jrpg sickos like me to to play it yeah Infinity Nikki metaphor ref Fantasia those have been my my two biggies nice you know what I've been playing I've also been playing Infinity Nikki and I I did know life it um we talked about so as you said dress up gench and impact it's a it's a gacha game it comes from the Nikki series which you have history with you've explained the Nikki series weird lore on this podcast before uh but broadly this one is now coming to PC it used to be mobile only now this is I think going to be multiplatform like genin is um it's an open world Adventure where you're also collecting clothes and like doing dress up battles with people I just got to my first battle uh well as we're recording last night I will do many more battles by the time anyone hears this I hope and let's see yeah we we talked about GAA games like earlier this year on the podcast like just a couple months ago with Tyler Culp and I think at that time I was like yeah I like genshin didn't quite grab me um you know honkai didn't quite grab me the rest of them and I was like I know I'm susceptible to this though and it's just going to take the right kind of game the right genre because gacha is the monetization and it just and they'll throw it onto any genre of game possible right and I was like it's just going to take the right genre of gaml to uh to get me and I think uh open world Exploration with uh unlockable clothes getting me because like you said it's very pretty um that that hair physics gorgeous love it the the the fabric physics as you run around it's glorious um I'm paying attention to the lore I never like genshin did not catch my attention with the lore I was you know the proper noun soup the mechanique deatrice or whatever that me cardal yeah that that lady uh so I never pay attention to the lore in this one I actually am paying a little bit of attention and I think like you know me I'm a building girl in life Sims and you can rip out the rest of the game and just give me like a building game like tiny Glade which I've also been playing recently and I will just engage with Building without um a like a goal or I will just free form build I won't really do that with dress up like I don't like Crea a Sim is not my favorite part of the Sims um so I've never been drawn to dress up games before there may or you know there's probably wind States and that stuff it's not completely free form but basically I can't engage with just dress up but this is open world exploration it's little puzzles it's doing the fishing it's collecting the resources it's doing y yada all the little bits and pieces and I'm like oh no like it yeah do you like the fishing in this game it's a bit it's a bit weird how it works yeah no I don't I I like it I like it but I didn't like it at first because I was like this is stupid but I like it it's it's it's a one-way ticket to like uh what's it called repetitive strain injury you have to like spam the the right click to reel the fishing right it's definitely it's fishing is bad man and this is it's it's like other fishing mini games it's not different it's the same it's bad uh all fishing is bad uh yeah so I've been playing a lot of infinity Nikki I have no life um yeah I think this is going to be the one that gets me unfortunately so w well with all that admitted to let's go grab Chris and talk about waiting to play games instead of no lifing them hey Chris thank you for coming to talk with us about being a patient gamer and you are sort of my poster child for this right now because uh as we have experienced on the team and the website has experienced a little bit you recently started stardy Valley for the first time which is eight years after it originally you know got popular what what happened there yeah I think you know maybe a little weirder is I um I bought it way back then I bought it eight years ago I I bought it very early on um and I was going to play it then and I just kept hearing these people who were just sucked into it like this is my life now I'm just playing stardy Valley and I think I was really busy at that time I was like maybe I shouldn't start this game that's GNA suck up all of my time and a few more times like over the past over the next few years I was like I would sit down to start it and I go no I've got too much going on and then uh this year I finally just actually sat down and started it up and then and just like I had feared uh it sucked up all my time I don't think I played anything really else for for so I think I think I played 60 hours in the first two weeks um part of that a full-time job of stardew Valley part of that was because I got covid for the first time and um so I was just and I was in Europe and I was on a work trip and I stayed in the hotel room because I was really really sick uh just playing stardy Valley to kind of get through it but uh yeah I I have finally played the game that I bought eight years ago that everyone loved eight years ago nice so as you were talking about that like the first time when we were finding out about this uh it was reminding me of the patient gaming concept and there's like I don't know if the subreddit is the most popular place for this it's just the one I happen to be aware of I'm sure as a trend it's like leapt to other social platforms I'm also aware of the subreddit yeah so the subreddit for patient Gamers uh is it as it states on the subreddit for gamers who wait at least 12 months after a release to play a game whether it's because of price waiting for bugs or issues to be patched DLCs to be released they don't currently meet the system requirements or just haven't had time to keep up with the latest releases so I guess Chris stardy Valley falls into that last bucket you just like did not have time for stardy Valley to be in your life when it originally came out yeah for I mean that's definitely that's 100% what it was for me but I do I do really love kind of the patient gamer concept and the like I think it's great that there's a community um you know kind of who just kind of practice this uh discipline because it is really hard to not you know jump into games immediately for all sorts of reasons um but I think I think for a lot of people um this is a really expensive hobby it's really expensive and not just because individual not just CU like individual games are expensive but because there are like there's so many games like if you want to stay kind of current and kind of you know follow the discourse and follow the kind of like relevant stuff happening like you really have to play a lot of games and they're really really that you know just one example last year late last year um I was like you know what I'll for the end of the year I'll write up you know my favorite city builders I played this year um because I play a lot of city builders and I went through to count up how many how many I'd played in in 2023 and it was 20 I'd played 20 city builders that year and this most of them I mean like one or two had been in Early Access prior to 2023 but for the most part that was all new city builders in just 2023 that I'd played which was 20 which means there were more that I didn't play and you just think about like that's one genre that has probably 20 25 maybe 30 new games in a single year year and if you you know if that's your genre and you want to like keep up with stuff and and you know kind of sample what's out there in any given time like that's really expensive to buy stuff full price when it when it comes out so um like that I think is is a really good reason to kind of practice the patient gamer philosophy yeah it's uh go ahead Molly oh I was just going to say I completely agree and I think as well for me I feel like when I'm playing a game on release I almost feel rushed sometimes especially if like everyone else in my friend group is playing it or if I'm like actively engaged in the community like for the game as well like the most recent example I guess I have is uh like when Dawn Trail came out like the new Final Fantasy 14 expansion I felt like like a lot of pressure to kind of blast through it as quickly as I could because everyone everyone else had already done it everyone else was moving on to like the raids well not the raids like the Extreme Trials and you know all the crafting and everything and I'm like the longer that I don't do the story the more I'm like falling behind and the more like stuff's going to get spoiled and I hate that feeling of being rushed so I feel like when you're waiting you know like a year or something to remove yourself from all of that all of that like initial hype I I feel like you just you're not as rushed you're not as like you you just take your time a bit more right yeah I would say that that component of feeling like Left Behind or left out is why I'm not very good about this in general like hey all three of us know that because of our job it's difficult to be a patient gamer because sometimes you just don't get that choice you are going to play the game at release um other times though it it's like that don't have time for this factor of being a patient game where like I'm busy with XYZ games that are coming out right now and I really would like to try this other one but like it's not a genre I'm an expert in so like I'm not going to wind up spending my evenings playing it when there's like other things that I have to get done um but for me personally I'm just like terrible about fomo I was trying to come up with like have have I ever been a patient gamer have I ever waited to play a game like for any of these like the smallest of reasons and I was like I don't think so I think I just like forget to play games at L like oh I forgot that one came out or um like yeah I just don't have time for it but I don't think I hardly ever make like an intentional decision to not play something at launch because like the full version out isn't out yet or because like I don't want to pay for it yet I mean I guess maybe like not wanting to pay for it and not having time with it kind of like go together I think the best example I have is like um the newest Yakuza game uh like a dragon infinite wealth uh from oh my gosh did it come out like middle of last year I literally now have forgotten when it came out um I'm like a giant yaka fan I haven't played it yet because I guess I'll file it under not having time those are huge games they're so I put 120 hours into like a dragon um the first time so I knew I was like I just don't I just can't do infinite wealth right now I'm gonna have to be patient just lifestyle wives but what examples do you guys have other than Chris's stardy Valley if ones that you have been patient for for any particular reason I am kind of like you Lauren I am very much like a we're actually the most impatient Gamers for terrible yeah I'm pretty much like a I'll play it on launch or I won't play it at all kind of thing I I gener gen generally I don't really make like much of like a deliberate effort um to to wait right like the one example that I could remember when I was using my little PE brain was when I was in university obviously I didn't have a lot of money um and I remember I got given like a PlayStation gift card and it was for like 50 or something I forget how much it was for and I was like I'm going to save this for when the Persona dancing games go on sale because I knew that like the bundle of both of them three and five I knew that when they went on sale they would be like £50 Max so I sat on that gift card for like five or six months oh and then yeah right and I think I can't remember how long the games had actually been out for by the time that sale came around but I I waited I was rewarded for my effort uh and yeah it's one because I think that's one of those games as well that you don't really have to play it on release right you don't really have to play a rhythm game the same time as everyone else so that's the that's the one time that I actually remember being patient Chris do you have things other than stardy Valley that you were patient for more intentionally than you were with stardew Valley which was kind of an accient um well another game I didn't play um for quite a while was days X and it had kind of become I don't remember why I didn't play it but it had kind of become you know kind of a sticking point for me because it's you know this Landmark game and so was highly celebrated it's the type of game that I would usually play in love and I started getting kind of almost self-conscious like I why haven't I ever played day sex everyone they're still talking about it I should really play it and I finally a few years ago like like all right I'll just play it and and get caught up on what everyone's been talking about for you know the past decade and uh yeah I played it for 20 minutes I like this is just too ugly like it's so old and ugly and I can't I can't make myself do this so now I'm like now I'm not only ashamed that I never played DSX I'm also ashamed that I'm like so superficial that um that I that I couldn't make myself to the same thing honestly with morrowwind like I like I love Elder Scrolls I'm like I gotta Play morrowwind It's you know my first one was Oblivion but I got to go back and play morrowwind it's like everyone loves it the most and everyone was like oh I can't I can't even with this it's too ugly so old um so yeah those are my I think that I don't think I'm patient I think I'm just like superficial that's my problem that does make me wonder like what is the year mark on the difference between um being patient and like Retro Gaming because the the the technical rules of being a patient gamer they they say one year right which you know there are no real rules do whatever you freaking want but you know about a year that that constitutes as being patient but then how many years is it before you're no longer patient you're going back to play Mor wind or you're going back to play DSX like is it like a 5-year-old game is it a game like from the last console generation which like doesn't mean anything for us on PC like what's what's the cut off four five five years four five years yeah yeah I I think the older you are the the longer the Retro uh designation is like I don't like hearing the things five years ago are retro that makes me feel like I'm turning to dust it's like when I look on Turner Classic Movies and it's like oh I saw that movie as an adult and now it's considered a classic I'm I'm that that guy from from Indiana Jones who like drinks from the wrong cup and and turns into dust um retro for me yeah retro for me would be like 80s would be like 80s or even 90s I don't think feels retro to me I think it would be 80s I think it would be like arcade games feel retro um you know Super Nintendo kico Vision that kind of stuff I I can't look at a game five years ago and call it retro I it's so hard because this is another example where just like there's no rules do whatever you want because you just started playing stardew Valley stardew is eight years old that's more than I remember sometimes and that's not retro there's no there's no way we're calling stardy Valley retro and also the Sims 4 just turns 10 years old Molly yeah that's crusty it's still the current Sims game playing The Sims 4 isn't retro or patient crusty as all hell it's I mean I guess you are patient if for to go free to play but you know yeah that is true I think that would be very patient of you maybe like for me I think it's when like the kind of core mechanics that make that game become like outdated you know when they start when it when like playing it is like it wouldn't have felt that frustrating to play back when it was like oh like nobody would make this game right now kind of thing yeah like you know like maybe certain things like really like clunky that NE maybe necessarily weren't considered clunky at the time like maybe maybe that is when it's like not patient gaming anymore CU I feel like you know if you play a game one two three years removed from release you're probably still largely getting the same if not a like a improved experience from how it was at launch then I feel like when you get into like maybe 7 8 9 10 you're territory unless the game is still being um updated which is obviously the case for stardew and The Sims I think maybe something start to feel a little a little crunchy maybe I don't know I think that if you picked up the Witcher 3 for the first time right now that's patient if you picked up Skyrim for the first time right now that's crunchy M I don't know there's not a newer Elder Scrolls game Skyrim is still the one but man Skyrim is crunchy I mean it was crunchy when it came out but yeah that's true I love a crunchy game I don't know if I'm willing to call Skyrim retro but it's not retro well no it's not it is more than 10 years old is what 13 years old now almost 14 it's getting there 13 it's it's a bit bit crusty yeah it's a little bit crusty but I think that that is one of those games that will not feel the same to play mhm brand new in 2024 as it would feel to play brand new even like as late as like 2016 2017 maybe I don't know I could be talking out my ass I think games like that like um like The Witcher 3 are maybe some of the best cases for like being patient on a game like I definitely had a friend who waited for to play The Witcher 3 until um both of the DLCs had come out and like was like I'm just going to wait until there's a definitive addition or whatever a like you know includes the DLC package I think it actually launched with one like I think there was like a Witcher plus expansion pass version of The Witcher 3 but like pre-ordering that and then not playing it until it was finished would I don't think that would qualify as being a patient gamer I think the point is to wait to purchase it until that comes out and it like goes on sale at some point and yeah I think yeah games with like big story DLCs like that are like where there's going to be a point in which they say aha it's done here it is you can get the The Collection experience yeah th those are really benefits so like I don't know I guess story based RPGs like that are or like if you were going to play balers Gate 3 soon after they do their like last major like patch I don't know there was some recent talk about is they're going to keep doing patches but like the major stuff that they're doing look I don't know but if you waited until about now to play balers Gate 3 that would be very patient of you probably it's been that would be a year it has scary is there actually is there any games that anyone here played at launch or close to launch that they wish they'd maybe waited a little bit longer how you I definitely had that feeling with you know because I I I have very I'm not patient like just in general like I know a lot of people on the PC Gamer team never played balers gate in Early Access Bal balers Gate 3 in Early Access Lauren one of them um because they just you know you you just wanted to you wanted the whole thing you wanted the whole thing at once um and I am not like I I play so many Early Access games and then but you know when they turn 1.0 like even if I liked them like do I really want to go back in is it really worth it um yeah uh and like I see that all the time uh because I have I have like no impulse control I'm very much like instant gratification oh that looks cool I'm going to try it right now right this second um so I think there definitely are games that you know I kind of wish I maybe hadn't played in Early Access um and then sometimes even full release games you know change a lot and add a lot uh you know if you're playing if you decideed to play No Man's sky for the first time today I think you're probably way better off than than having jumped in when it first launched just because there's you know so much more to it now that was the example that jumped in my mind first Chris yeah was no man's Sky because I did play it at launch with everybody else and I play I like went back to it a couple times over like three or four months but I tried to go back to it like you know after they did whatever big story update they did and like what like all these systems they've added with like ride like Base building riding animals all the stuff they're still making more No Man's Sky updates and I'm like I wish I could get into that game right now but I can't cuz I already tried it once and now I'm just like I don't know and I wish I could just have the like Foundation the level set the lack of expectations not lack of expectations that was whole no man Sky whole problem but the lack of you know experience to just go into it fresh for myself at least but yeah I I think like Chris you and I play so many crafting survival games and that's exactly what you're saying is like those in particular often in Early Access often have a lot of like mechanical changes like big changes to the way that they work especially like valheim that's the other one that like I don't think I wish I'd waited to play that I'm glad I played it when it was really popular because that was very fun to be playing this is why I have fomo it was fun to play everybody thought it was cool and fun um and so I don't wish I'd waited to play that but I do wish I'd played the like Mist lands update or some of the later bosses and I haven't because I'm not going back to valheim like I I I don't have time in my life there's new stuff coming out I I'm busy you had your time with it it was fun yeah next yeah with somebody like balim like it wasn't complete but what was there worked perfectly like it was it felt like full game you didn't feel like oh I'm running keep running into these unfinished clearly unfinished you know systems and things like that so I don't like yeah I hear what you're saying like I haven't really been back to valheim since I first you know played a whole bunch of it in Early Access but I don't feel like it was uh you know any kind of like lacking experience at the time um you know as opposed to some Early Access games where it is very clearly like here's what we've got for now some of it's good some of it doesn't work um and then you wind up thinking like oh why don't I just wait I should wait for for the full thing yeah I think a game that I wish I hadn't played on launch is probably Final Fantasy 15 uh that is yeah they uh I think I can't remember I think it was chapter 13 chapter 13 was like very divisive when it launched it felt very like not at the same level as all the other chapters to the point that I I am pretty sure they did like some kind of rework to that chapter to you know kind of fix some of the the criticisms that it had and then they did all these like mini chapters for each of the characters as well each of the main characters and I never played those cuz I played the game on launch I finished it in like a week and then I didn't really like go back to it so it's that's one of those that I wish I had maybe waited like like a year or something till all the DLC was out and then played it with the little like rework that they' done as well Final Fantasy 16 just came out on PC Molly are you going to be patient or you going to play it have you already played it I played like half of it on PlayStation okay ruined and then and then I stopped playing it one day the thing that I do where I just don't pick up a game one day and then I forget it exists until the day I die so actually that's a great example of one of my worst like not patient gaming moments this is turning into the anti-pa gamers podcast episode actually turns out we're all awful and we can't do this at all um but probably the worst one that I've ever done was um getting Monster Hunter World on the PlayStation 4 because I wanted to play with friends and I couldn't wait for it to come to PC because my friends who were really into monster hunter wanted to play it then I I like had to literally even at that point my PS4 was old I had to dust that thing off and get it out just to play this didn't click with it was bad at Monster Hunter I wanted to be but wasn't stopped playing it and then when it came out on PC I bought it on PC too did I play much Monster Hunter World on PC no I did not that's I failed a second time to get into Monster Hunter whoops so Lauren there is one you know I can think of one example of a type of game that I'm very patient with and I think it has to do with the fact that I'm very lazy is that um anything looks like a complicated like strategy game or Sim game you know like I was really late to to play Crusader Kings because I think I took a look at I was like oh the tutorial I can't even understand what they're telling me in the tutorial and it's there's so many drop downs and so many menus I was like nope I I don't have the like I don't have the The Willpower to fight my way through this and learn it um and like you know games like Rim world where I'll start up and go oh this looks really complicated and it looks really cool I want to play it but it's going to be homework like I'm feel like I'm gonna be doing homework for the first eight or t hours and then I'm just like yeah maybe I'll wait I'll wait and it's not really being patient I guess it's just being it's just being lazy like I just I can't I can't fit all this into my head right now yeah I definitely there's an intimidation factor maybe sometimes of yeah certain like genres I guess I don't know I don't and I feel like I'm most able to be patient with a genre I guess I kind of said this already that like is not my usual like no I can't be patient with crafting survival games I will be playing that when it launches into Early Access but like Hitman 3 that uh that's probably again I give myself like too much credit if I say I was patient on Hitman 3 I just like didn't have any interest in it until like Morgan was telling me about it Morgan Park also on our team and I was like oh I should play Hitman 3 that sounds rad and uh that was like several years after it came out that I was getting really into Hitman 3 but like not on purpose I wasn't patient I was just wasn't like an intentional I was just unaware I think um I think actually a very PC specific reason perhaps that people are patient and wait as well is actually like I'm thinking about it now it's something I did is uh like launchers right when games launch on a launcher that people don't like or people you know the most common example is epic right I think when Borderlands 3 was an epic exclusive for a year and I remember a lot of people being like I'm going to wait till it's on Steam and um I ended up doing it with the Kingdom Hearts Collection cuz that went on Epic first and that was a long wait that was a long long wait that only came to steam like three months ago three and a half months ago yeah and it was on Epic at like the beginning of 2021 I want to say normally that's like exactly a year normally that is the time frame epic to St yeah I waited I waited a hot SEC for that I waited a long ass time so I think that that's perhaps quite like a PC specific reason I think some people don't don't like multiple launchers some people just have that like that like hate boner for epic and yeah that stops them from buying games on there and that's like that's a level of patience that I mean I can't say anything I did it for Kingdom Hearts that was like three years but you know you know what I mean we have talked about launchers on this podcast before and how we still don't care for the Epic Launcher so if you just don't want to like use it cuz it Doesn't freaking have features we talked about it it is rather annoying I don't think it would stop me from buying a game that like I was anticipating and wanting to play I wouldn't wait a year for that but like if I could take it or leave it yeah I guess I'll wait then I then I would be patient do I have an example of that no I do not uh but in theory we've talked a little bit about Early Access do we think that waiting for something to go from Early Access to 1.0 counts as being patient the game launched in Early Access or are you supposed to be patient past the 1.0 there are no rules they don't matter question cuz I feel like when you in when you invest in Early Access sometimes you're getting that cheaper right sometimes sometimes yeah sometimes the game is cheaper when it's in Early Access and then when they put out a 1.0 release they bump the price up a little bit right to reflect that it's a more complete package so I don't know I don't know if that's patient cuz it it's not always about the cost right sometimes it's about the the content those two motivations for being patient are very opposite in that case if you are a patient gamer if that's your thing because you want the most complete experience of the game then yeah you would be patient and wait for the 1.0 if you a patient gamer because yeah you you want to get things on sale or like you know not spend $ 60 $70 on a game you might grab it when it launches in Early Access at the like you know 20 20% Less Price than maybe it might wind up being at the full launch I guess it's not technically being patient but I guess if that's your motivation you might uh that might be a non-patient case for you so if you wanted to be really patient you would skip the Early Access lower price you would skip the 1.0 higher price and then wait for a sale that's lower than the original Early Access price you would wait eight like Chris to play the game in theory you wouldn't have bought it at launch and you would wait 8 years are there still good price drops do we feel like on things um like you know if you wait a year how long does it take now I feel like I feel like there's sales occasionally really soon like if if something gets released in you know the first quarter of the year and then the Steam summer sale comes around it's usually not a big you know might be just a five or 10% which isn't particularly big but I do feel like um you know kind of it's kind of it kind of feels like being patient if there's a movie out you don't want to go to the theater and you're like well if I just wait for like two months it'll be on streaming and I can just watch it at home I feel like it's that about that amount of time but that said there are sometimes you know you go to a steam sale like oh finally this is this is going to be on sale and it's not so yeah but I do feel like you know they're more you know it's it it takes less time to see something go on sale than it used to like I think I remember to bring up no man's Sky again it was a really really long time like years before you could get it for less than full price um so but I think in general it feels like well if I wait a few months they'll be there'll be it might just be 10% or something but it you should see it at some point pretty soon but I don't have any kind of like data to back that up just kind of a feeling yeah anecdotally I would say it super depends on the kind of game like a Ubisoft Flagship game the new Assassin's Creed is not going to be on sale three four even five or six months after it comes out that's going to take around a year like maybe it gets like a tiny sale during the next like whether it's holiday season around like like the Black Friday stuff or around like you know winter holidays and or maybe around summer sale time um but it'll be a while but for like a mid tier game from like either a smaller publisher like a midsize developer those things wind up going to the like like seasonal themed steam sales that we see so many of like Chris you know because you you follow genres that show up in them a lot like whether it's survival or whether it's you know strategy or something like that steam has a lot of themed sales around the year now and they announce the dates for them in advance like they a those didn't used to exist used to be like summer winter Autumn New Year's like there used to be a few major steam sales now they do a lot and they do them themed around different genres and like a mid-tier game will show up in one of those with like 10% 20% discount and it can be half a year after it's come out maybe even less just kind of depending trying to like bump sales and get interest um but yeah your your Call of Duty your Assassin's Creed your whatever else is not going to go on S you're going to have to be genuinely patient I have a very outdated article that we wrote um okay give us some old news turns out in 2017 um we wrote How long does it take games to be cheap on Steam I would love to see this data like again in yeah I would really really like to see especially like Chris said how expensive it is these days I would I would actually really like to see it um so apparently in 2017 it was an average of seven months for the biggest for the biggest games to hit a 50% discount uh popular popular big budget AAA games I guess this was back when we we were allowed to write the phrase triple it's one of our no no phrases we're not allowed to say Triple A you'll never see that on Ina talk like a normal person yeah apparently popular big budget games get a 50% discount after an average of seven months that was in 2017 and then apparently in 2017 breakout Indie Games took longer they took around n 9.2 months to hit 50% on average and um actually confirming something that I was going to theorize is that the less popular a game is the faster it gets slapped with a a big old discount which I have noticed as well when when the games are flopping the discounts tend to tend to come in like hot and fast right so that's very this is very very interesting again this is like seven years old that's yeah that's seven years ago but yeah it would be cool to like actually do that research again um yeah and in in 2014 it took the the median for a game to receive a 33% discount was 58 days okay about three months so like two months wait two Lauren do division challenge about writers can't writers can't do numbers I can't do numbers it's classic uh that's so you can actually do like a little bit of this research on your own too we've talked about this before um when we discuss like steam stuff is if you use um steam DB the database plls steam backend info really great tool really useful um on each page for steam DB it has uh price history charts for games so that won't it can't possibly tell you if a game that you want when it is going to go on sale that's not how that works but for something that has been out for about a year you can look at the price history and see if it has already gone on sale once and for how much and be like okay so it'll probably go on sale for that again during whatever the next like you know major seasonal sale period is um like I recommend that a lot for like Sims dlc's like expansions and game packs because there's so many of them they're hard to keep track of but if you look at the prices steam yeah yes patient packs which ones go on like they all go on sale EA does big sales on them but if you use steam DB because they'll put them on sale for the same amount on Steam and on the the EA app um you can see which ones are currently getting discounted and by how much so that like the next time that pops up which one you want to grab and for how much so that's super handy yeah yeah we talk it all about uh um sorry go ahead no I was just G to say I do think even though the patient gamer subreddit does say that it's like they use a year obviously for a variety of different reasons to constitute patient gaming I think if you're doing it purely from a financial standpoint like a year is just an arbitrary number at this point according to us it was an arbitrary number even seven years ago right I think you can see games going on like a pretty getting like a pretty good discount like three months if if like a release date and like a summer or a winter sale align quite closely I still tend to find that like the you can get like a pretty decent discount um I very rarely buy my Steam games full price now as well for that reason right so yeah what were you going to ask Chris have we talked about what um have we talked about kind of a um an interesting wrinkle to this is when a game comes out on Console before it comes out on PC and are we patient then do you have you ever bought something that you knew was going to come to BC at some point but you couldn't wait and bought it on Console first I already outed myself on Monster Hunter world and I outed myself on Final Fantasy 16 the PlayStation games those are the really the tough ones cuz yeah if you want to play it while it's hot uh they they've said they're going to do more simultaneous releases I think or do more PC ports generally but it's still like certain games your Spider-Man's your final fantasies your Monster Hunters things things half the time this so good the GTA weights are always the rough ones oh my gosh I forgot oh that's going to be awful Chris when GTA 6 comes out oh and like I waited for I waited for Red Dead Redemption 2 which I really hated to to do yeah uh because I like when the first Red Dead came out like I bought a Xbox 360 just to play it like that's how that's how impatient I was and I'm guess I'm glad I did because that still hasn't come out on PC um but the second one I would really really wanted and I just I just made myself wait because I just didn't want to have I want to like I can't another console just for rock stars right it's ridiculous I did wait for Red Dead Redemption 2 to come to PC and again giving myself too much credit I don't know that I really waited I think I was doing other things and I just didn't play it until I came to PC but when it comes to GTA6 yeah Rockstar Games really are a tough wrinkle um that sucks that's gonna suck for us just on so many levels like yeah yeah it's going to be rough I'm not patient uh do we think like certain genres have more of a shelf life than others like I said that like story heavy RPGs are great for waiting to get all the DLCs together but are there certain types of games that just like you know it would be better to to wait or to grab it early I guess I mean live service games it's hard to wait on but I do think RPGs are good they're good they're good Waiting Games yeah you know generally I think most of them they they don't age super fast you generally end up with like a definitive addition mhm because a lot of a lot of these a lot of like Western RPGs anyway they tend to get like the little like expansion releases right I am thinking mostly The Witcher here but yeah I think those are good ones to be patient on um because I think that yeah I think they have like a decent like a decent shelf life to them it's just story you just have to like Shield your on the internet don't see the spoilers don't go anywhere near them yeah I think definitely RPGs have a good shelf life for being patient um and probably probably simulation stuff I guess like Chris mentioned like I think those keep really well and they don't they usually don't have the same like feverish must experience this at the same time as everyone else kind of thing like you know it like I couldn't wait on Disco elisium while everybody was talking about disco elisium but like uh I don't know I can't come up with a good example now but any simulation stuff like it's still going to be great it's still the thing that it does like really enjoyable even if you've waited a year or two years or five years to play it probably yeah Molly are are fighting games is that just an impossible genre to be patient with do you have to get in there or everyone's going to know like how to kick your ass by the time you get in there if you wait a couple months or is it something where you can kind of jump in later I think I think it I think it's one that you can wait I think it's not necessarily one that you have to jump in on straight away especially cuz obviously you know the the ranked systems in those games are designed so that you're obviously fighting people around your level right the only thing is maybe they'll be like less people in the lower ranks that might be like the only the only kind of iffy thing towards the end of like Tekken sevens lifespan it was very very hard to rank up in that game unless you were like goated because there are a bunch of like Smurfs in the lower ranks and people like editing their ranks down or editing their ranks up so like there's definitely like cons to not going in straight away but I think it's one of those that you can kind kind of you can kind of like wait on a little bit and you can let other people figure out the tech you can let other people figure out the Combos and the and the the antich character Tech and then you can just come in and you be like I I'm just going to take what everyone else has done all the hard work to do and then I could just apply it and that's that's great I'm thinking about MMOs cuz we mentioned launchers earlier and obviously my first re action is I can't possibly be patient because I need to be the person that was there at launch and I need to have whatever little gift that gave away at launch that proves that I was there and I need to have the Cosmetic and I need to uh my pride demands but then I think about many like I wasn't there at eso's launch notoriously not a good launch not a not a particularly good game until at least a year later um and I probably didn't start playing it until like two years later I don't remember when I first played the oldo controls online but much better for having been patient even if I don't have some nebulous I've been here since beta um you know patch on my on my jacket um and like Final Fantasy 14 didn't come till that till later um I don't know can you imagine yourself being patient for an MMO mly could you do it absolutely freaking not especially in an MMO especially in game like Final Fantasy 14 as well where like the longer you do not play the game the more behind you fall right and it's like now people coming into this game in the year of Our Lord 2024 they've got like a b they've got a base game and four freaking expansions to get through just to get to the same point as everyone else like I always say I am so glad I played a real reborn when that was the only thing we had like I am so glad that like I played that when there was no other expansions when I didn't know how tedious and grindy it was because we didn't know any better because it was already better than 1.0 like I I could not imagine having to do like a reborn all of the Jank of like a slightly rewired 1.0 like experience I could not imagine now starting the game and having to do that I understand why it's such a wo for a lot of people so yeah hell no hell no no what um okay as we get closer to the end here two like kind of Rapid Fire quick answer questions from you guys what game have you played right now that you would recommend other people be patient for because of the price because of the features because of whatever what what should people be patient for right now Lauren Chris you go f i don't have an answer yet oh yeah I don't have an answer either um I'll give you mine then if you if you want to think for a second um I just played Rea um the witch in the woods crafting game um this was highly anticipated cozy game from me this year uh I've played it it's very Vibes I really enjoy it there's some kind of funky like Quest sequence break bug type things I it's so hard to say this about an early access indie game I don't want to tell people to not buy it in Early Access because that's why it's there that's how that game keeps getting developed but like if you're on the fence wait on Rea I think it it the intro to it is so good right now um I I think it's like really effective the 1.0 or like you know in a year I think it'll be like fantastic so like maybe wait on Rea but also don't wait on Rea because it's an indie game and you should buy it to support them or whatever I guess I don't know this is why I'm not patient what game should people be patient with Lauren why would you do this to me I would say oh you know what I played this um really good kind of multiplayer shooter uh it's called Team Fortress 2 it's only been out it's only been out for almost you know 20 years but I would hold off because there's like a bot problem I feel like the developer has a lot of issues like um fixing it and I think they're kind of distracted by this other game they have out um but it's really promising I'm I'm hopeful it'll have a bright future uh but I would hold off I would hold off for the for the moment I think am amazing um um actually one that I am being patient for that I don't know that was my next question but go ahead oh okay one that one that I'm being patient for I'm just going to do do a two for then because I can't think of a game right now that I don't think people should play I know I'm sorry it's a sucky question what game should people not play what you or should you not play um one that I am actually waiting on that I don't know if people should be but I am I'm waiting on lollipop chains or repop right now cuz I heard apparently it's kind of buggy and I love that game and I'm worried that my memory of the game as well is going to like the the it's going to it's going to be shattered so I'm going to wait until they fix the bugs and then I'll probably wait for a sale as well and then I'll and then I'll NAB it and hopefully it's good fingers crossed okay okay yeah that was my next question was is there a game either you're being patient for right now or is coming up and you are telling yourself like I should be patient and not play it immediately um so yeah there's you know speaking of survival games Nightingale came out this year in kind of early access and they had a kind of stumbled a lot um um right out of the gate and they're kind of reworking things based on like a lot of feedback and it's still something I I'm very hopeful will kind of turn around and uh you know hopefully they'll they'll you know work out their problems and finish it because it really does look and feel interesting in like a really interesting World um it's just they're kind of they've kind of had to rethink a lot of it and it's kind of had a lot of growing pains and so that's kind of one that I'm like yeah I don't want to keep jumping in every time they do an update um and I don't want to it's you know I would like to see the finished game and experience it from the beginning rather than go well I'll play it for a while and then wait for it update and then play it again um so that's when I'm I'm hopeful they'll they'll kind of iron everything out and I think I'll wait and see how the 1.0 goes nice I don't actually have an answer to my own second question I'm looking at like upcoming games right now like there's is there anything you're not going to play at launch that like you want to play put yourself on the spot you're going to intentionally wait to play and the answer is I already admitted it right at the top the answer is no I don't wait for things I am an impatient gamer woo so yeah that's a that's a no probably from me I guess oh well such as who I am well thank you guys for uh hashing out patient gaming with me giving some tips on waiting and uh what basically all of us admitting that we're not patient Gamers anti-p patient Gamers is there a subreddit for that that I could join they probably is I don't know what you would is that just our games is that the the impatient subreddit is what is every already playing right this second well for all the games uh that we've mentioned and talked about there's definitely writing on pcgamer.com from Molly Chris and I and all the rest of our teammates all the usual news reviews guides opinions all that great stuff and as usual you will be able to talk with Molly about this week's episode at forums. pcgamer.com so thanks for joining us Chris bye guys thanks guys byehey PC Gamers and welcome back to the PC Gamer chat log I'm Lauren Morton and hey everyone I'm Molly Taylor and this week Molly and I are bringing on our senior editor Chris Livingston to talk about patient gaming uh which we may or may not be patient Gamers but Chris has had an experience recently of going back to stardew Valley like eight years after it was first popular uh and you know experiencing that game for the first time so we got to thinking about like what games have we intentionally been patient to play want to talk about like you know the community of technically patient gaming that is on Reddit and I think probably collects other places as well and what the technical rules of being a patient gamer are whether we uh can or do subscribe to those at all uh but before we get to that Molly what did you play last week yeah so as you know this Lauren I have been playing the closed bait for Infinity Nikki which is the like dress up gench and impact right it's the open world dress up RPG um it is very rough around the edges right now like you think yeah I think it's I think it's a little rough around the edges I think there are there are certain bits that I don't love that are still a bit crusty I think I don't love the combat it's like okay it's yeah it's it's like a little juvenile at times in a way that like I mean you I literally sent you a picture of me playing it right I had like a face mask on and like a glass of wine and like there was a point where I was like drinking wine and watching a cut scene that was between like Dada baby and haer and I was like I am a 28y old woman like don't don't let the localization get to you man I was like what am I doing um but no the the it looks so pretty it's very very very very pretty um the clothes amazing I was having way too much fun just hopping around finding like the whim stars that you can use to get like upgrades to your different abilities I like the fishing I don't know how you feel as a fishing hater I like the fishing uh I yeah I had a great time I had a really good time I could definitely see myself I was kind of trying to hold back a little bit because they're like test accounts that are provided to us right they're not so we're not going to get to keep that progress yeah we don't get to keep anything that we do so I was trying to like hold back a little bit from from totally no lifing it uh but I still did a little bit and a couple weeks ago I mentioned that I couldn't wait to be very very annoying about a video game the video game that I was referring to was metaphor ref Fantasia which I mentioned last week that the demo was out I've been playing the whole thing um which I think I did not keep that a very good secret I think I was very I was very bad at pretending like I was just playing the demo yeah I've been playing the full thing you you were playing more than the demo I was playing more than the demo oh my God obsessed obsessed I said last week obsessed um I'm having a fantastic time right now I'm about 50 hours in I want to say I have I've been putting in I haven't putting in the time uh it's it's great uh it's making me it's making me fall in love with jrpgs again it I don't know if it's better than Persona 5 cuz I said it's very close to Persona and it is it's like I want to say like 90% Persona um is it better than Persona 5 Maybe maybe it is I'm having a fantastic time uh it is great that should be out on the 11th this episode should be the 10th so it should be tomorrow it's about to be out yeah so I would definitely recommend uh for all you little jrpg sickos like me to to play it yeah Infinity Nikki metaphor ref Fantasia those have been my my two biggies nice you know what I've been playing I've also been playing Infinity Nikki and I I did know life it um we talked about so as you said dress up gench and impact it's a it's a gacha game it comes from the Nikki series which you have history with you've explained the Nikki series weird lore on this podcast before uh but broadly this one is now coming to PC it used to be mobile only now this is I think going to be multiplatform like genin is um it's an open world Adventure where you're also collecting clothes and like doing dress up battles with people I just got to my first battle uh well as we're recording last night I will do many more battles by the time anyone hears this I hope and let's see yeah we we talked about GAA games like earlier this year on the podcast like just a couple months ago with Tyler Culp and I think at that time I was like yeah I like genshin didn't quite grab me um you know honkai didn't quite grab me the rest of them and I was like I know I'm susceptible to this though and it's just going to take the right kind of game the right genre because gacha is the monetization and it just and they'll throw it onto any genre of game possible right and I was like it's just going to take the right genre of gaml to uh to get me and I think uh open world Exploration with uh unlockable clothes getting me because like you said it's very pretty um that that hair physics gorgeous love it the the the fabric physics as you run around it's glorious um I'm paying attention to the lore I never like genshin did not catch my attention with the lore I was you know the proper noun soup the mechanique deatrice or whatever that me cardal yeah that that lady uh so I never pay attention to the lore in this one I actually am paying a little bit of attention and I think like you know me I'm a building girl in life Sims and you can rip out the rest of the game and just give me like a building game like tiny Glade which I've also been playing recently and I will just engage with Building without um a like a goal or I will just free form build I won't really do that with dress up like I don't like Crea a Sim is not my favorite part of the Sims um so I've never been drawn to dress up games before there may or you know there's probably wind States and that stuff it's not completely free form but basically I can't engage with just dress up but this is open world exploration it's little puzzles it's doing the fishing it's collecting the resources it's doing y yada all the little bits and pieces and I'm like oh no like it yeah do you like the fishing in this game it's a bit it's a bit weird how it works yeah no I don't I I like it I like it but I didn't like it at first because I was like this is stupid but I like it it's it's it's a one-way ticket to like uh what's it called repetitive strain injury you have to like spam the the right click to reel the fishing right it's definitely it's fishing is bad man and this is it's it's like other fishing mini games it's not different it's the same it's bad uh all fishing is bad uh yeah so I've been playing a lot of infinity Nikki I have no life um yeah I think this is going to be the one that gets me unfortunately so w well with all that admitted to let's go grab Chris and talk about waiting to play games instead of no lifing them hey Chris thank you for coming to talk with us about being a patient gamer and you are sort of my poster child for this right now because uh as we have experienced on the team and the website has experienced a little bit you recently started stardy Valley for the first time which is eight years after it originally you know got popular what what happened there yeah I think you know maybe a little weirder is I um I bought it way back then I bought it eight years ago I I bought it very early on um and I was going to play it then and I just kept hearing these people who were just sucked into it like this is my life now I'm just playing stardy Valley and I think I was really busy at that time I was like maybe I shouldn't start this game that's GNA suck up all of my time and a few more times like over the past over the next few years I was like I would sit down to start it and I go no I've got too much going on and then uh this year I finally just actually sat down and started it up and then and just like I had feared uh it sucked up all my time I don't think I played anything really else for for so I think I think I played 60 hours in the first two weeks um part of that a full-time job of stardew Valley part of that was because I got covid for the first time and um so I was just and I was in Europe and I was on a work trip and I stayed in the hotel room because I was really really sick uh just playing stardy Valley to kind of get through it but uh yeah I I have finally played the game that I bought eight years ago that everyone loved eight years ago nice so as you were talking about that like the first time when we were finding out about this uh it was reminding me of the patient gaming concept and there's like I don't know if the subreddit is the most popular place for this it's just the one I happen to be aware of I'm sure as a trend it's like leapt to other social platforms I'm also aware of the subreddit yeah so the subreddit for patient Gamers uh is it as it states on the subreddit for gamers who wait at least 12 months after a release to play a game whether it's because of price waiting for bugs or issues to be patched DLCs to be released they don't currently meet the system requirements or just haven't had time to keep up with the latest releases so I guess Chris stardy Valley falls into that last bucket you just like did not have time for stardy Valley to be in your life when it originally came out yeah for I mean that's definitely that's 100% what it was for me but I do I do really love kind of the patient gamer concept and the like I think it's great that there's a community um you know kind of who just kind of practice this uh discipline because it is really hard to not you know jump into games immediately for all sorts of reasons um but I think I think for a lot of people um this is a really expensive hobby it's really expensive and not just because individual not just CU like individual games are expensive but because there are like there's so many games like if you want to stay kind of current and kind of you know follow the discourse and follow the kind of like relevant stuff happening like you really have to play a lot of games and they're really really that you know just one example last year late last year um I was like you know what I'll for the end of the year I'll write up you know my favorite city builders I played this year um because I play a lot of city builders and I went through to count up how many how many I'd played in in 2023 and it was 20 I'd played 20 city builders that year and this most of them I mean like one or two had been in Early Access prior to 2023 but for the most part that was all new city builders in just 2023 that I'd played which was 20 which means there were more that I didn't play and you just think about like that's one genre that has probably 20 25 maybe 30 new games in a single year year and if you you know if that's your genre and you want to like keep up with stuff and and you know kind of sample what's out there in any given time like that's really expensive to buy stuff full price when it when it comes out so um like that I think is is a really good reason to kind of practice the patient gamer philosophy yeah it's uh go ahead Molly oh I was just going to say I completely agree and I think as well for me I feel like when I'm playing a game on release I almost feel rushed sometimes especially if like everyone else in my friend group is playing it or if I'm like actively engaged in the community like for the game as well like the most recent example I guess I have is uh like when Dawn Trail came out like the new Final Fantasy 14 expansion I felt like like a lot of pressure to kind of blast through it as quickly as I could because everyone everyone else had already done it everyone else was moving on to like the raids well not the raids like the Extreme Trials and you know all the crafting and everything and I'm like the longer that I don't do the story the more I'm like falling behind and the more like stuff's going to get spoiled and I hate that feeling of being rushed so I feel like when you're waiting you know like a year or something to remove yourself from all of that all of that like initial hype I I feel like you just you're not as rushed you're not as like you you just take your time a bit more right yeah I would say that that component of feeling like Left Behind or left out is why I'm not very good about this in general like hey all three of us know that because of our job it's difficult to be a patient gamer because sometimes you just don't get that choice you are going to play the game at release um other times though it it's like that don't have time for this factor of being a patient game where like I'm busy with XYZ games that are coming out right now and I really would like to try this other one but like it's not a genre I'm an expert in so like I'm not going to wind up spending my evenings playing it when there's like other things that I have to get done um but for me personally I'm just like terrible about fomo I was trying to come up with like have have I ever been a patient gamer have I ever waited to play a game like for any of these like the smallest of reasons and I was like I don't think so I think I just like forget to play games at L like oh I forgot that one came out or um like yeah I just don't have time for it but I don't think I hardly ever make like an intentional decision to not play something at launch because like the full version out isn't out yet or because like I don't want to pay for it yet I mean I guess maybe like not wanting to pay for it and not having time with it kind of like go together I think the best example I have is like um the newest Yakuza game uh like a dragon infinite wealth uh from oh my gosh did it come out like middle of last year I literally now have forgotten when it came out um I'm like a giant yaka fan I haven't played it yet because I guess I'll file it under not having time those are huge games they're so I put 120 hours into like a dragon um the first time so I knew I was like I just don't I just can't do infinite wealth right now I'm gonna have to be patient just lifestyle wives but what examples do you guys have other than Chris's stardy Valley if ones that you have been patient for for any particular reason I am kind of like you Lauren I am very much like a we're actually the most impatient Gamers for terrible yeah I'm pretty much like a I'll play it on launch or I won't play it at all kind of thing I I gener gen generally I don't really make like much of like a deliberate effort um to to wait right like the one example that I could remember when I was using my little PE brain was when I was in university obviously I didn't have a lot of money um and I remember I got given like a PlayStation gift card and it was for like 50 or something I forget how much it was for and I was like I'm going to save this for when the Persona dancing games go on sale because I knew that like the bundle of both of them three and five I knew that when they went on sale they would be like £50 Max so I sat on that gift card for like five or six months oh and then yeah right and I think I can't remember how long the games had actually been out for by the time that sale came around but I I waited I was rewarded for my effort uh and yeah it's one because I think that's one of those games as well that you don't really have to play it on release right you don't really have to play a rhythm game the same time as everyone else so that's the that's the one time that I actually remember being patient Chris do you have things other than stardy Valley that you were patient for more intentionally than you were with stardew Valley which was kind of an accient um well another game I didn't play um for quite a while was days X and it had kind of become I don't remember why I didn't play it but it had kind of become you know kind of a sticking point for me because it's you know this Landmark game and so was highly celebrated it's the type of game that I would usually play in love and I started getting kind of almost self-conscious like I why haven't I ever played day sex everyone they're still talking about it I should really play it and I finally a few years ago like like all right I'll just play it and and get caught up on what everyone's been talking about for you know the past decade and uh yeah I played it for 20 minutes I like this is just too ugly like it's so old and ugly and I can't I can't make myself do this so now I'm like now I'm not only ashamed that I never played DSX I'm also ashamed that I'm like so superficial that um that I that I couldn't make myself to the same thing honestly with morrowwind like I like I love Elder Scrolls I'm like I gotta Play morrowwind It's you know my first one was Oblivion but I got to go back and play morrowwind it's like everyone loves it the most and everyone was like oh I can't I can't even with this it's too ugly so old um so yeah those are my I think that I don't think I'm patient I think I'm just like superficial that's my problem that does make me wonder like what is the year mark on the difference between um being patient and like Retro Gaming because the the the technical rules of being a patient gamer they they say one year right which you know there are no real rules do whatever you freaking want but you know about a year that that constitutes as being patient but then how many years is it before you're no longer patient you're going back to play Mor wind or you're going back to play DSX like is it like a 5-year-old game is it a game like from the last console generation which like doesn't mean anything for us on PC like what's what's the cut off four five five years four five years yeah yeah I I think the older you are the the longer the Retro uh designation is like I don't like hearing the things five years ago are retro that makes me feel like I'm turning to dust it's like when I look on Turner Classic Movies and it's like oh I saw that movie as an adult and now it's considered a classic I'm I'm that that guy from from Indiana Jones who like drinks from the wrong cup and and turns into dust um retro for me yeah retro for me would be like 80s would be like 80s or even 90s I don't think feels retro to me I think it would be 80s I think it would be like arcade games feel retro um you know Super Nintendo kico Vision that kind of stuff I I can't look at a game five years ago and call it retro I it's so hard because this is another example where just like there's no rules do whatever you want because you just started playing stardew Valley stardew is eight years old that's more than I remember sometimes and that's not retro there's no there's no way we're calling stardy Valley retro and also the Sims 4 just turns 10 years old Molly yeah that's crusty it's still the current Sims game playing The Sims 4 isn't retro or patient crusty as all hell it's I mean I guess you are patient if for to go free to play but you know yeah that is true I think that would be very patient of you maybe like for me I think it's when like the kind of core mechanics that make that game become like outdated you know when they start when it when like playing it is like it wouldn't have felt that frustrating to play back when it was like oh like nobody would make this game right now kind of thing yeah like you know like maybe certain things like really like clunky that NE maybe necessarily weren't considered clunky at the time like maybe maybe that is when it's like not patient gaming anymore CU I feel like you know if you play a game one two three years removed from release you're probably still largely getting the same if not a like a improved experience from how it was at launch then I feel like when you get into like maybe 7 8 9 10 you're territory unless the game is still being um updated which is obviously the case for stardew and The Sims I think maybe something start to feel a little a little crunchy maybe I don't know I think that if you picked up the Witcher 3 for the first time right now that's patient if you picked up Skyrim for the first time right now that's crunchy M I don't know there's not a newer Elder Scrolls game Skyrim is still the one but man Skyrim is crunchy I mean it was crunchy when it came out but yeah that's true I love a crunchy game I don't know if I'm willing to call Skyrim retro but it's not retro well no it's not it is more than 10 years old is what 13 years old now almost 14 it's getting there 13 it's it's a bit bit crusty yeah it's a little bit crusty but I think that that is one of those games that will not feel the same to play mhm brand new in 2024 as it would feel to play brand new even like as late as like 2016 2017 maybe I don't know I could be talking out my ass I think games like that like um like The Witcher 3 are maybe some of the best cases for like being patient on a game like I definitely had a friend who waited for to play The Witcher 3 until um both of the DLCs had come out and like was like I'm just going to wait until there's a definitive addition or whatever a like you know includes the DLC package I think it actually launched with one like I think there was like a Witcher plus expansion pass version of The Witcher 3 but like pre-ordering that and then not playing it until it was finished would I don't think that would qualify as being a patient gamer I think the point is to wait to purchase it until that comes out and it like goes on sale at some point and yeah I think yeah games with like big story DLCs like that are like where there's going to be a point in which they say aha it's done here it is you can get the The Collection experience yeah th those are really benefits so like I don't know I guess story based RPGs like that are or like if you were going to play balers Gate 3 soon after they do their like last major like patch I don't know there was some recent talk about is they're going to keep doing patches but like the major stuff that they're doing look I don't know but if you waited until about now to play balers Gate 3 that would be very patient of you probably it's been that would be a year it has scary is there actually is there any games that anyone here played at launch or close to launch that they wish they'd maybe waited a little bit longer how you I definitely had that feeling with you know because I I I have very I'm not patient like just in general like I know a lot of people on the PC Gamer team never played balers gate in Early Access Bal balers Gate 3 in Early Access Lauren one of them um because they just you know you you just wanted to you wanted the whole thing you wanted the whole thing at once um and I am not like I I play so many Early Access games and then but you know when they turn 1.0 like even if I liked them like do I really want to go back in is it really worth it um yeah uh and like I see that all the time uh because I have I have like no impulse control I'm very much like instant gratification oh that looks cool I'm going to try it right now right this second um so I think there definitely are games that you know I kind of wish I maybe hadn't played in Early Access um and then sometimes even full release games you know change a lot and add a lot uh you know if you're playing if you decideed to play No Man's sky for the first time today I think you're probably way better off than than having jumped in when it first launched just because there's you know so much more to it now that was the example that jumped in my mind first Chris yeah was no man's Sky because I did play it at launch with everybody else and I play I like went back to it a couple times over like three or four months but I tried to go back to it like you know after they did whatever big story update they did and like what like all these systems they've added with like ride like Base building riding animals all the stuff they're still making more No Man's Sky updates and I'm like I wish I could get into that game right now but I can't cuz I already tried it once and now I'm just like I don't know and I wish I could just have the like Foundation the level set the lack of expectations not lack of expectations that was whole no man Sky whole problem but the lack of you know experience to just go into it fresh for myself at least but yeah I I think like Chris you and I play so many crafting survival games and that's exactly what you're saying is like those in particular often in Early Access often have a lot of like mechanical changes like big changes to the way that they work especially like valheim that's the other one that like I don't think I wish I'd waited to play that I'm glad I played it when it was really popular because that was very fun to be playing this is why I have fomo it was fun to play everybody thought it was cool and fun um and so I don't wish I'd waited to play that but I do wish I'd played the like Mist lands update or some of the later bosses and I haven't because I'm not going back to valheim like I I I don't have time in my life there's new stuff coming out I I'm busy you had your time with it it was fun yeah next yeah with somebody like balim like it wasn't complete but what was there worked perfectly like it was it felt like full game you didn't feel like oh I'm running keep running into these unfinished clearly unfinished you know systems and things like that so I don't like yeah I hear what you're saying like I haven't really been back to valheim since I first you know played a whole bunch of it in Early Access but I don't feel like it was uh you know any kind of like lacking experience at the time um you know as opposed to some Early Access games where it is very clearly like here's what we've got for now some of it's good some of it doesn't work um and then you wind up thinking like oh why don't I just wait I should wait for for the full thing yeah I think a game that I wish I hadn't played on launch is probably Final Fantasy 15 uh that is yeah they uh I think I can't remember I think it was chapter 13 chapter 13 was like very divisive when it launched it felt very like not at the same level as all the other chapters to the point that I I am pretty sure they did like some kind of rework to that chapter to you know kind of fix some of the the criticisms that it had and then they did all these like mini chapters for each of the characters as well each of the main characters and I never played those cuz I played the game on launch I finished it in like a week and then I didn't really like go back to it so it's that's one of those that I wish I had maybe waited like like a year or something till all the DLC was out and then played it with the little like rework that they' done as well Final Fantasy 16 just came out on PC Molly are you going to be patient or you going to play it have you already played it I played like half of it on PlayStation okay ruined and then and then I stopped playing it one day the thing that I do where I just don't pick up a game one day and then I forget it exists until the day I die so actually that's a great example of one of my worst like not patient gaming moments this is turning into the anti-pa gamers podcast episode actually turns out we're all awful and we can't do this at all um but probably the worst one that I've ever done was um getting Monster Hunter World on the PlayStation 4 because I wanted to play with friends and I couldn't wait for it to come to PC because my friends who were really into monster hunter wanted to play it then I I like had to literally even at that point my PS4 was old I had to dust that thing off and get it out just to play this didn't click with it was bad at Monster Hunter I wanted to be but wasn't stopped playing it and then when it came out on PC I bought it on PC too did I play much Monster Hunter World on PC no I did not that's I failed a second time to get into Monster Hunter whoops so Lauren there is one you know I can think of one example of a type of game that I'm very patient with and I think it has to do with the fact that I'm very lazy is that um anything looks like a complicated like strategy game or Sim game you know like I was really late to to play Crusader Kings because I think I took a look at I was like oh the tutorial I can't even understand what they're telling me in the tutorial and it's there's so many drop downs and so many menus I was like nope I I don't have the like I don't have the The Willpower to fight my way through this and learn it um and like you know games like Rim world where I'll start up and go oh this looks really complicated and it looks really cool I want to play it but it's going to be homework like I'm feel like I'm gonna be doing homework for the first eight or t hours and then I'm just like yeah maybe I'll wait I'll wait and it's not really being patient I guess it's just being it's just being lazy like I just I can't I can't fit all this into my head right now yeah I definitely there's an intimidation factor maybe sometimes of yeah certain like genres I guess I don't know I don't and I feel like I'm most able to be patient with a genre I guess I kind of said this already that like is not my usual like no I can't be patient with crafting survival games I will be playing that when it launches into Early Access but like Hitman 3 that uh that's probably again I give myself like too much credit if I say I was patient on Hitman 3 I just like didn't have any interest in it until like Morgan was telling me about it Morgan Park also on our team and I was like oh I should play Hitman 3 that sounds rad and uh that was like several years after it came out that I was getting really into Hitman 3 but like not on purpose I wasn't patient I was just wasn't like an intentional I was just unaware I think um I think actually a very PC specific reason perhaps that people are patient and wait as well is actually like I'm thinking about it now it's something I did is uh like launchers right when games launch on a launcher that people don't like or people you know the most common example is epic right I think when Borderlands 3 was an epic exclusive for a year and I remember a lot of people being like I'm going to wait till it's on Steam and um I ended up doing it with the Kingdom Hearts Collection cuz that went on Epic first and that was a long wait that was a long long wait that only came to steam like three months ago three and a half months ago yeah and it was on Epic at like the beginning of 2021 I want to say normally that's like exactly a year normally that is the time frame epic to St yeah I waited I waited a hot SEC for that I waited a long ass time so I think that that's perhaps quite like a PC specific reason I think some people don't don't like multiple launchers some people just have that like that like hate boner for epic and yeah that stops them from buying games on there and that's like that's a level of patience that I mean I can't say anything I did it for Kingdom Hearts that was like three years but you know you know what I mean we have talked about launchers on this podcast before and how we still don't care for the Epic Launcher so if you just don't want to like use it cuz it Doesn't freaking have features we talked about it it is rather annoying I don't think it would stop me from buying a game that like I was anticipating and wanting to play I wouldn't wait a year for that but like if I could take it or leave it yeah I guess I'll wait then I then I would be patient do I have an example of that no I do not uh but in theory we've talked a little bit about Early Access do we think that waiting for something to go from Early Access to 1.0 counts as being patient the game launched in Early Access or are you supposed to be patient past the 1.0 there are no rules they don't matter question cuz I feel like when you in when you invest in Early Access sometimes you're getting that cheaper right sometimes sometimes yeah sometimes the game is cheaper when it's in Early Access and then when they put out a 1.0 release they bump the price up a little bit right to reflect that it's a more complete package so I don't know I don't know if that's patient cuz it it's not always about the cost right sometimes it's about the the content those two motivations for being patient are very opposite in that case if you are a patient gamer if that's your thing because you want the most complete experience of the game then yeah you would be patient and wait for the 1.0 if you a patient gamer because yeah you you want to get things on sale or like you know not spend $ 60 $70 on a game you might grab it when it launches in Early Access at the like you know 20 20% Less Price than maybe it might wind up being at the full launch I guess it's not technically being patient but I guess if that's your motivation you might uh that might be a non-patient case for you so if you wanted to be really patient you would skip the Early Access lower price you would skip the 1.0 higher price and then wait for a sale that's lower than the original Early Access price you would wait eight like Chris to play the game in theory you wouldn't have bought it at launch and you would wait 8 years are there still good price drops do we feel like on things um like you know if you wait a year how long does it take now I feel like I feel like there's sales occasionally really soon like if if something gets released in you know the first quarter of the year and then the Steam summer sale comes around it's usually not a big you know might be just a five or 10% which isn't particularly big but I do feel like um you know kind of it's kind of it kind of feels like being patient if there's a movie out you don't want to go to the theater and you're like well if I just wait for like two months it'll be on streaming and I can just watch it at home I feel like it's that about that amount of time but that said there are sometimes you know you go to a steam sale like oh finally this is this is going to be on sale and it's not so yeah but I do feel like you know they're more you know it's it it takes less time to see something go on sale than it used to like I think I remember to bring up no man's Sky again it was a really really long time like years before you could get it for less than full price um so but I think in general it feels like well if I wait a few months they'll be there'll be it might just be 10% or something but it you should see it at some point pretty soon but I don't have any kind of like data to back that up just kind of a feeling yeah anecdotally I would say it super depends on the kind of game like a Ubisoft Flagship game the new Assassin's Creed is not going to be on sale three four even five or six months after it comes out that's going to take around a year like maybe it gets like a tiny sale during the next like whether it's holiday season around like like the Black Friday stuff or around like you know winter holidays and or maybe around summer sale time um but it'll be a while but for like a mid tier game from like either a smaller publisher like a midsize developer those things wind up going to the like like seasonal themed steam sales that we see so many of like Chris you know because you you follow genres that show up in them a lot like whether it's survival or whether it's you know strategy or something like that steam has a lot of themed sales around the year now and they announce the dates for them in advance like they a those didn't used to exist used to be like summer winter Autumn New Year's like there used to be a few major steam sales now they do a lot and they do them themed around different genres and like a mid-tier game will show up in one of those with like 10% 20% discount and it can be half a year after it's come out maybe even less just kind of depending trying to like bump sales and get interest um but yeah your your Call of Duty your Assassin's Creed your whatever else is not going to go on S you're going to have to be genuinely patient I have a very outdated article that we wrote um okay give us some old news turns out in 2017 um we wrote How long does it take games to be cheap on Steam I would love to see this data like again in yeah I would really really like to see especially like Chris said how expensive it is these days I would I would actually really like to see it um so apparently in 2017 it was an average of seven months for the biggest for the biggest games to hit a 50% discount uh popular popular big budget AAA games I guess this was back when we we were allowed to write the phrase triple it's one of our no no phrases we're not allowed to say Triple A you'll never see that on Ina talk like a normal person yeah apparently popular big budget games get a 50% discount after an average of seven months that was in 2017 and then apparently in 2017 breakout Indie Games took longer they took around n 9.2 months to hit 50% on average and um actually confirming something that I was going to theorize is that the less popular a game is the faster it gets slapped with a a big old discount which I have noticed as well when when the games are flopping the discounts tend to tend to come in like hot and fast right so that's very this is very very interesting again this is like seven years old that's yeah that's seven years ago but yeah it would be cool to like actually do that research again um yeah and in in 2014 it took the the median for a game to receive a 33% discount was 58 days okay about three months so like two months wait two Lauren do division challenge about writers can't writers can't do numbers I can't do numbers it's classic uh that's so you can actually do like a little bit of this research on your own too we've talked about this before um when we discuss like steam stuff is if you use um steam DB the database plls steam backend info really great tool really useful um on each page for steam DB it has uh price history charts for games so that won't it can't possibly tell you if a game that you want when it is going to go on sale that's not how that works but for something that has been out for about a year you can look at the price history and see if it has already gone on sale once and for how much and be like okay so it'll probably go on sale for that again during whatever the next like you know major seasonal sale period is um like I recommend that a lot for like Sims dlc's like expansions and game packs because there's so many of them they're hard to keep track of but if you look at the prices steam yeah yes patient packs which ones go on like they all go on sale EA does big sales on them but if you use steam DB because they'll put them on sale for the same amount on Steam and on the the EA app um you can see which ones are currently getting discounted and by how much so that like the next time that pops up which one you want to grab and for how much so that's super handy yeah yeah we talk it all about uh um sorry go ahead no I was just G to say I do think even though the patient gamer subreddit does say that it's like they use a year obviously for a variety of different reasons to constitute patient gaming I think if you're doing it purely from a financial standpoint like a year is just an arbitrary number at this point according to us it was an arbitrary number even seven years ago right I think you can see games going on like a pretty getting like a pretty good discount like three months if if like a release date and like a summer or a winter sale align quite closely I still tend to find that like the you can get like a pretty decent discount um I very rarely buy my Steam games full price now as well for that reason right so yeah what were you going to ask Chris have we talked about what um have we talked about kind of a um an interesting wrinkle to this is when a game comes out on Console before it comes out on PC and are we patient then do you have you ever bought something that you knew was going to come to BC at some point but you couldn't wait and bought it on Console first I already outed myself on Monster Hunter world and I outed myself on Final Fantasy 16 the PlayStation games those are the really the tough ones cuz yeah if you want to play it while it's hot uh they they've said they're going to do more simultaneous releases I think or do more PC ports generally but it's still like certain games your Spider-Man's your final fantasies your Monster Hunters things things half the time this so good the GTA weights are always the rough ones oh my gosh I forgot oh that's going to be awful Chris when GTA 6 comes out oh and like I waited for I waited for Red Dead Redemption 2 which I really hated to to do yeah uh because I like when the first Red Dead came out like I bought a Xbox 360 just to play it like that's how that's how impatient I was and I'm guess I'm glad I did because that still hasn't come out on PC um but the second one I would really really wanted and I just I just made myself wait because I just didn't want to have I want to like I can't another console just for rock stars right it's ridiculous I did wait for Red Dead Redemption 2 to come to PC and again giving myself too much credit I don't know that I really waited I think I was doing other things and I just didn't play it until I came to PC but when it comes to GTA6 yeah Rockstar Games really are a tough wrinkle um that sucks that's gonna suck for us just on so many levels like yeah yeah it's going to be rough I'm not patient uh do we think like certain genres have more of a shelf life than others like I said that like story heavy RPGs are great for waiting to get all the DLCs together but are there certain types of games that just like you know it would be better to to wait or to grab it early I guess I mean live service games it's hard to wait on but I do think RPGs are good they're good they're good Waiting Games yeah you know generally I think most of them they they don't age super fast you generally end up with like a definitive addition mhm because a lot of a lot of these a lot of like Western RPGs anyway they tend to get like the little like expansion releases right I am thinking mostly The Witcher here but yeah I think those are good ones to be patient on um because I think that yeah I think they have like a decent like a decent shelf life to them it's just story you just have to like Shield your on the internet don't see the spoilers don't go anywhere near them yeah I think definitely RPGs have a good shelf life for being patient um and probably probably simulation stuff I guess like Chris mentioned like I think those keep really well and they don't they usually don't have the same like feverish must experience this at the same time as everyone else kind of thing like you know it like I couldn't wait on Disco elisium while everybody was talking about disco elisium but like uh I don't know I can't come up with a good example now but any simulation stuff like it's still going to be great it's still the thing that it does like really enjoyable even if you've waited a year or two years or five years to play it probably yeah Molly are are fighting games is that just an impossible genre to be patient with do you have to get in there or everyone's going to know like how to kick your ass by the time you get in there if you wait a couple months or is it something where you can kind of jump in later I think I think it I think it's one that you can wait I think it's not necessarily one that you have to jump in on straight away especially cuz obviously you know the the ranked systems in those games are designed so that you're obviously fighting people around your level right the only thing is maybe they'll be like less people in the lower ranks that might be like the only the only kind of iffy thing towards the end of like Tekken sevens lifespan it was very very hard to rank up in that game unless you were like goated because there are a bunch of like Smurfs in the lower ranks and people like editing their ranks down or editing their ranks up so like there's definitely like cons to not going in straight away but I think it's one of those that you can kind kind of you can kind of like wait on a little bit and you can let other people figure out the tech you can let other people figure out the Combos and the and the the antich character Tech and then you can just come in and you be like I I'm just going to take what everyone else has done all the hard work to do and then I could just apply it and that's that's great I'm thinking about MMOs cuz we mentioned launchers earlier and obviously my first re action is I can't possibly be patient because I need to be the person that was there at launch and I need to have whatever little gift that gave away at launch that proves that I was there and I need to have the Cosmetic and I need to uh my pride demands but then I think about many like I wasn't there at eso's launch notoriously not a good launch not a not a particularly good game until at least a year later um and I probably didn't start playing it until like two years later I don't remember when I first played the oldo controls online but much better for having been patient even if I don't have some nebulous I've been here since beta um you know patch on my on my jacket um and like Final Fantasy 14 didn't come till that till later um I don't know can you imagine yourself being patient for an MMO mly could you do it absolutely freaking not especially in an MMO especially in game like Final Fantasy 14 as well where like the longer you do not play the game the more behind you fall right and it's like now people coming into this game in the year of Our Lord 2024 they've got like a b they've got a base game and four freaking expansions to get through just to get to the same point as everyone else like I always say I am so glad I played a real reborn when that was the only thing we had like I am so glad that like I played that when there was no other expansions when I didn't know how tedious and grindy it was because we didn't know any better because it was already better than 1.0 like I I could not imagine having to do like a reborn all of the Jank of like a slightly rewired 1.0 like experience I could not imagine now starting the game and having to do that I understand why it's such a wo for a lot of people so yeah hell no hell no no what um okay as we get closer to the end here two like kind of Rapid Fire quick answer questions from you guys what game have you played right now that you would recommend other people be patient for because of the price because of the features because of whatever what what should people be patient for right now Lauren Chris you go f i don't have an answer yet oh yeah I don't have an answer either um I'll give you mine then if you if you want to think for a second um I just played Rea um the witch in the woods crafting game um this was highly anticipated cozy game from me this year uh I've played it it's very Vibes I really enjoy it there's some kind of funky like Quest sequence break bug type things I it's so hard to say this about an early access indie game I don't want to tell people to not buy it in Early Access because that's why it's there that's how that game keeps getting developed but like if you're on the fence wait on Rea I think it it the intro to it is so good right now um I I think it's like really effective the 1.0 or like you know in a year I think it'll be like fantastic so like maybe wait on Rea but also don't wait on Rea because it's an indie game and you should buy it to support them or whatever I guess I don't know this is why I'm not patient what game should people be patient with Lauren why would you do this to me I would say oh you know what I played this um really good kind of multiplayer shooter uh it's called Team Fortress 2 it's only been out it's only been out for almost you know 20 years but I would hold off because there's like a bot problem I feel like the developer has a lot of issues like um fixing it and I think they're kind of distracted by this other game they have out um but it's really promising I'm I'm hopeful it'll have a bright future uh but I would hold off I would hold off for the for the moment I think am amazing um um actually one that I am being patient for that I don't know that was my next question but go ahead oh okay one that one that I'm being patient for I'm just going to do do a two for then because I can't think of a game right now that I don't think people should play I know I'm sorry it's a sucky question what game should people not play what you or should you not play um one that I am actually waiting on that I don't know if people should be but I am I'm waiting on lollipop chains or repop right now cuz I heard apparently it's kind of buggy and I love that game and I'm worried that my memory of the game as well is going to like the the it's going to it's going to be shattered so I'm going to wait until they fix the bugs and then I'll probably wait for a sale as well and then I'll and then I'll NAB it and hopefully it's good fingers crossed okay okay yeah that was my next question was is there a game either you're being patient for right now or is coming up and you are telling yourself like I should be patient and not play it immediately um so yeah there's you know speaking of survival games Nightingale came out this year in kind of early access and they had a kind of stumbled a lot um um right out of the gate and they're kind of reworking things based on like a lot of feedback and it's still something I I'm very hopeful will kind of turn around and uh you know hopefully they'll they'll you know work out their problems and finish it because it really does look and feel interesting in like a really interesting World um it's just they're kind of they've kind of had to rethink a lot of it and it's kind of had a lot of growing pains and so that's kind of one that I'm like yeah I don't want to keep jumping in every time they do an update um and I don't want to it's you know I would like to see the finished game and experience it from the beginning rather than go well I'll play it for a while and then wait for it update and then play it again um so that's when I'm I'm hopeful they'll they'll kind of iron everything out and I think I'll wait and see how the 1.0 goes nice I don't actually have an answer to my own second question I'm looking at like upcoming games right now like there's is there anything you're not going to play at launch that like you want to play put yourself on the spot you're going to intentionally wait to play and the answer is I already admitted it right at the top the answer is no I don't wait for things I am an impatient gamer woo so yeah that's a that's a no probably from me I guess oh well such as who I am well thank you guys for uh hashing out patient gaming with me giving some tips on waiting and uh what basically all of us admitting that we're not patient Gamers anti-p patient Gamers is there a subreddit for that that I could join they probably is I don't know what you would is that just our games is that the the impatient subreddit is what is every already playing right this second well for all the games uh that we've mentioned and talked about there's definitely writing on pcgamer.com from Molly Chris and I and all the rest of our teammates all the usual news reviews guides opinions all that great stuff and as usual you will be able to talk with Molly about this week's episode at forums. pcgamer.com so thanks for joining us Chris bye guys thanks guys bye\n"