The Mysterious Apple TV App: A Look Inside the Code

A team of developers who attempted to reverse-engineer the Apple TV app discovered that it appears to be a monolithic app, supporting various devices including Smart TVs, Roku, and others. The codebase is believed to have been migrated from the iOS app, which has undergone significant changes over the past two years.

The discovery was made when people took apart the app and found references to Samsung TVs, as well as other unexpected components. This suggests that the Apple TV app has evolved into a more complex entity, leveraging the same codebase across different platforms. The developers' experience highlights the complexity of modern software development, where a single application can be deployed across multiple devices.

The implications of this discovery are significant. As users, we can expect the Apple TV app to continue improving, with new features and updates being pushed to all compatible devices. However, for developers and tech enthusiasts, the revelation offers a fascinating glimpse into the inner workings of the app. By analyzing the codebase, we can gain insight into the development process, identify potential areas for improvement, and even contribute to the evolution of the app.

The Apple TV App's Rise to Prominence

One notable aspect of the Apple TV app is its popularity among users. According to reports, it has become the most popular Apple TV app at launch, with a significant number of downloads in its first week. This success can be attributed to several factors, including the integration with Amazon Prime Video, which offers users additional benefits such as shipping discounts.

However, it's worth noting that Amazon rarely releases official numbers or statistics regarding the popularity of its apps. When they do, they often provide vague statements or impressions rather than concrete data. In contrast, Apple tends to be more forthcoming about sales figures and user engagement metrics.

This disparity highlights the differences in how Amazon and Apple approach marketing and customer engagement. While both companies strive to promote their products and services, their strategies and approaches can vary significantly. As a result, users often benefit from having multiple options when it comes to accessing content on various devices.

Samsung's iPhone LED Panel Plans

Another significant development that occurred during this time was Samsung's announcement of plans to produce 180-200 million iPhone-compatible LED panels in 2018. The company acknowledged the importance of improving its display manufacturing capabilities, citing the need for process enhancements and increased efficiency.

The partnership between Apple and Samsung is a crucial aspect of modern electronics. By working together, both companies can leverage each other's strengths to create more innovative products. In this case, Samsung's display expertise will be used to support Apple's expanding smartphone lineup, ensuring that users receive high-quality displays on their devices.

Conclusion

As we conclude this article, it's clear that the Apple TV app has become a significant player in the world of streaming services. Its integration with Amazon Prime Video and impressive user engagement metrics make it an attractive option for viewers worldwide. While there are still areas for improvement, the app continues to evolve, with new features and updates being added regularly.

As we move forward into the next Apple Insider podcast episode, we'll be discussing various topics related to technology, consumer electronics, and more. Stay tuned for our upcoming episodes, where we'll dive deeper into the world of tech and provide expert insights on the latest trends and developments.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome back to the Apple Insider podcast this is episode 152 I'm your host Mike Worley well Mike I am so glad you're able to make it I really am appreciative of it uh we we're we're down a little bit right now because Neil is on his way to Florida and and Mikey who's joined us in the past is unable to join us right now and so I'm so glad you're here good to know that I'm the third tier no no you number two actually M Mikey took himself out of the running long before but uh no no you you number two Neil got on a plane so you and I man that's it sounds good let's do it yeah well uh later in the show I'm going to put in an interview that we did with a fellow named Yosi Neiman and Yosi is the founder of dried. which is an iOS connected dashboard Cloud connected camera it's a very cool project and it's really cool and I hope it makes people safer drivers so we're going to get to that but before we do we're going to talk a little about about what's happened in the last week since we last talked there's been a lot going on and and Mike you know we are doing this just people know we we get comments from time to time about the quality of the podcast and I appreciate it because I try and deliver the very best edits and the very best quality that we can recording wise Mike and I are not in the same room no we are currently 5,8 77 miles apart yeah I think people get the idea that Apple Insider is the shadowy conglomerate and we all wear robes and there's a 60 watt bulb hanging from an indistinct ceiling or something like that and first rule is you don't talk about the cabal right I mean Neil's in New York I'm near Washington DC Mikey Campbell is in Hawaii Rogers in Texas Malcolm is in Wales in the UK and today you're in Israel we are a worldwide program we are indeed we address everything knowing that I want people to understand that if there is a delay in the audio it's not because we're not trying it's because we're very far apart trying to bring the world a little bit smaller for you here we go good news is the iMac Pro has begun to ship yes we've started to see uh shipment emails not just of our own for own review but from some of our readers as well and you know it when when Apple begins to ship they if they have stock on hand they ship right away pretty much you know it's it's one of those things where you'll get something that they estimate is going to be two weeks away and all of a sudden it's there two days later yeah and that that's what we're looking at here too this doesn't look like an iPhone situation where it's shipping straight from uh from China this is shipping from United States addresses and as a note and I know that this was covered last week on the Apple Insider podcast but these are eight and 10 core configurations because the 14 and 18 core processors aren't even shipping from Intel yet so we'll see those later in 2018 but I I'm excited to see what real world bench marks looks like uh I know Apple seeded a bunch of influencers with them already like MKBHD on YouTube and and a couple of other developers and things had them and they started to run them through their Paces but there's some interesting use cases for the machine for instance AVX 512 uh Vector processing makes a triumphant return to the Mac with the with the Xeon Processor in it which has has big implications for scientific calculations the 128 gabt of ram you can you can edit 8K in real time with filters it's an amazing machine it's not for me but it's an amazing machine well one of the things that's interesting to me is that we know that Apple has a strong focus on augmented reality and their demo at WWDC was about augmented reality and virtual reality and using the iMac Pro as a part of the tool set to create those kinds of realities those kinds of Worlds and that's been something that's been missing you know if you wanted to try and do that in in the past with a Mac were in trouble you had to get a 4-year-old Mac Pro and load it up with a new graphics card and hope that you had support it just kind of a nightmare and that that was sort of a territory that I think Apple seated for a while it that's an interesting point that you bring that up because over here sitting in my eju box I have a Vega 56 GPU and it maybe you can hear the fan noise and maybe you can't but it it's with that ability with the increased focus on that with the iMac Pro and legitimate egpu support which will roll out fully in the spring Apple has decided that they're going to actually jump into VR and AR a little bit more on the Mac side it's it's it's immature the drivers are still immature on the egpu I I I actually want to get my hands in iMac Pro and I'll have an opportunity to to visit a buddy who will have one next week so I can actually play with it for a few minutes but we'll see I like I said I'm excited about the possibilities of the machine but yeah it's just wow that's way out of my budget well it it is but are you doing AR professionally not at this time so yeah I'm fully aware that there's no need for me to have the absolute fastest Mac ever made there's there's just no call for it for for me yeah and and what does the retail price what are they asking these are $5,000 systems basically yep it's $4,999 for 32 G for 32 gig ram the 8 core machine running at 3 GHz which will speed up to 4.5 GHz on a single core process uh one tab of SSD uh which goes up to 3 gigabytes per second transfer and that's five grand but that'll in the future that will go up to 13,500 with a maxed out 18 core machine you know what's nice about this is we we've got a renewed focus on desktop machines that we haven't seen from Apple in a while this is this is a double-edged sword the the pros I'm going to put that in quotes because the definition of pro varies greatly who's a pro am I a pro because I use this to make money but I don't need an iMac Pro I mean everyone's got a different use case for these machines so now we have a machine where Apple has decided to throw heavy iron at it and the complaints have already started about it the it's too expensive it it doesn't have what I need it doesn't have an AMD processor it's not expandable okay well so those qu complaints are all answerable right expensive well yes yeah equipping with iron costs that that's just kind of how it works the AMD processor has not yet proved to be necessary you know you you know and I know that Apple has compiled OS 10 to work with AMD processors they're prepared in the instance that they need to jump ship but as far as they can determine there's simply been no need Intel's a good partner Intel's providing the parts they need for the most part uh not always addressing every user complaint like the MacBook Pros that people were a little bit unhappy with in terms of ram support upper limits M but for the large in large part Intel has done the job fine uh upgradeability it's an iMac the iMac has never been considered an upgradeable machine other than storage or Ram well there are other there are other factors to consider with that too people talk about why I need a machine with a CPU that's upgradeable Apple's never allowed that Apple has never allowed that it's it's always been a thirdparty option that people have sometimes done you know in the power PC days or the people taking the processors out of Mac Minis and putting in better processors but right it's it's never been an officially sanctioned thing for sure so and and to be clear the processor is socketed on the iMac Pro and so is the ram it's just there's no door to conveniently get at it I I understand where the average Apple Insider reader probably wants an upgradeable machine but we have to realize that we are not Apple's primary customer anymore and I've spoken about this on this podcast before and I'm not going to dive into it too deeply but the iMac Pro I think has got more to do with Apple's Enterprise customers than it has to do with apple Insider readers yeah if you're buying an iMac Pro for business to support an a function and a job you're going to buy it fully conf figured and the the days of having to have you know you learn how to open the ram door and upgrade the RAM or to have an IT person come around and do it aren't necessarily always going to be there yes it's it's kind of annoying if you think you're just going to buy RAM on the cheap and save some bucks but if you're trying to do this for work uh and you've determined that this is the machine that fills your need there's there's no reason to be fooling around for the $50 savings on a $5,000 machine right I'm I'm kind of a data hoarder and people who know me that doesn't come as a big surprise perish the thought Mike I have no idea right so as a result I have a lot of abstracted data from my days doing service and data with clients that I've supported and over time in in when I was doing a lot of service in the early part of the 21st century it's maybe one in a hundred customers would come in Who had who are seeking an upgrade or had done an upgrade or something like that maybe one in a 100 and I can't imagine that that number is higher now I mean it can't be because of Apple's desire to not not have you upgrade your machines so even in the Heyday of upgradeable machines with slotted G with with socketed G4 processors and pcie slots and and RAM and a door that folds down very very few people were actually upgrading their machines even then and you can say that maybe my numbers were't right because people could have done their own repairs and maybe not so I'll I'll you know what I'll quadruple that number let's say one and 25 it's that still wasn't a bread and butter job that's not where made your money right that's that's not upgrading is a big thing for Apple Insider readers and I get that I completely understand that but we are not the majority not by a long shot I mean it's how people like other world computing built their business off of it right but right I mean I dig upgrading don't get me wrong I you know I'm kicking a a a a 51 Mac Pro Tower down here that I've done Unholy things to it but it's that day is over the the day is done like it or not the day is done and it's not just Apple that's doing this it's it's if you look at machines across the board there are very very few upgradeable machines actually being sold anymore so and that's okay yep it's okay that's all right well it's got to be we don't have a choice it's got to be and and frankly with the Mac Pro that Apple confirmed in the press release announcing that the Mac the iMac Pro is shipping they still didn't say it was coming out in 2018 they said that they were working on it when they when they talked about it in April they said that it wasn't this year yeah so there's that for sure doesn't mean 2017 but it also doesn't mean 2018 you know the old rule for when something was shipping and they would say they would announce it a keynote and it will be shipping by the end of the summer and you might get it the end of September right it was the very last opportunity for someone to say well maybe that was actually the end of summer right and it wasn't that it was late it was just that it was pushed to the very last moment and and so I'm not fussed about that we'll get them when we get them and hopefully they'll fill someone's need at that time we expect that they probably will yeah yeah and I think at some point we have to have a conversation about what modular Mac Pro means yes we still have no good idea what that actually means and you could say that your MacBook Pro with an egpu well that's that's somewhat modular isn't it well yeah I mean that fits in the definition of modular is that what they mean not necessarily I'm concerned that Apple Insider readers have this vision of Apple restoring the xmat concept anyone remember that oh dear God where you have a mini tower and you have PCI slots so you can swap in components heart's content I don't think that's what we're going to get at all so we'll see yeah we we got something to figure out and look forward to here don't yep we sure do speaking of things that we need to talk about so for ages and ages and ages there have been going back to I want to say iOS 4 iOS 4 was a great example of this where when you updated your iPhone your iPhone felt slower and especially with the iOS 4 transition from your your I your iPhone 3 or 3GS right the iPhone 3 didn't get some of the features that iOS enabled on other devices like the iPhone 4 at that time you know multitasking wasn't available on an iPhone 3 even though you were running the same OS and so people had this concept in mind that said that apple is making my phone worse when I update the OS on it that that apple is depriving me of features that other people get which was true or that apple is intentionally slowing down my phone and the the rest of that sentence usually reads something like apple was intentionally slowing down my phone in order to push me to upgrade yeah well unsurprisingly Victor I have thoughts about this well I I know that you do I I would say I'm GNA get my word in edgewise first go ahead that turns out and and actually I was surprised the first half of that sentence that apple is intentionally slowing down my phone we've always said that was false for years people have said that and and we've always said that this is not true apple is not intentionally slowing down your phone when you upgrade the OS and it turns out we weren't right we were wrong apple is it comes hold on hold on hold on this is the problem this is why this is a story but this is this is a story that I think has the potential to do a lot of damage to Apple's reputation because for years we've said apple is not slowing down your phones when you upgrade your OS and it turns out that that yes they are but not to force you to upgrade it's not a conspiracy to make you throw out your phone and go buy a new one that that what we found is that apple is slowing down older iPhones that have failing batteries have aging batteries and that this is to solve a problem that we saw with the iPhone 6 where your battery would get down to about 20% and then the phone would shut off so now I'm going to go ahead and let you take over Mike I've taken up enough of your time go for it you've taken up my time okay yeah yeah I give you some time well look here's the situation apple is not slowing down older phones that have perfectly functioning batteries that's the complete statement apple is still not and has never slowed down your phone to buy to get you to buy a new phone in fact while apple is slowing down your phone in a situation where the battery is been hammered with age or environmental conditions to prevent an under voltage condition which can actually damage your Hardware apple is reducing the clock speed of your phone during that time period of reduced voltage so it does not shut down on you until you plug it back in and charge it for a while so there are two choices here neither of them are great but they're they're physical realities that Apple has all the money in the world and there's not much they can do you mean I have to obey the laws of physics Mike I doesn't that terrible it's just awful that we have to do that anyway physics so we've got one condition where low voltage condition Okay the phone's going to shut down done boom no more phone sorry go go home and plug it in and then you'll be fine in an hour or the other situation where okay you can't play beul quite as fast as you used to but you still have the phone your phone still functions where the big flaw is here and the issue that I have with this here and the issue that I'm really upset with apple about on this is disclosure about this with the 10.2.1 upgrade that's when all this this battery clocking came in and apple said that they fixed the the sh the unexpected shutdown problem they didn't talk about when they didn't talk about how they didn't talk about possibilities they didn't talk about how you could fix the problem if you experien this slowdown all the time they didn't acknowledge that there's a Slowdown at all they just said they fixed the problem yeah there there was never any acknowledgement that there were slowing anything down they simply said that there was a problem where a phones that had older batteries would would shut down at 20% or 30% and if you saw that you know you could go bring it into the Apple store and then they issued to 10.2.1 and said that they've solved this issue what yeah and and that's great and it's it's fantastic they issue the patch CU other vendors like yeah your phone's shutting down tough crap right unex shut down is not a great experience I agree so I I what you'd wished for here was some acknowledgement of a few things right let me let me guess and you tell me if I guessed it right y go so first you would have liked acknowledgement that they were actually slowing down the processor yep you would have liked them to explain that it was related to battery yep and I'm guessing you would have also liked some notification that there was an issue with the battery probably yeah somewhere in the in I don't know notification center as opposed to NE necessarily bearing it in settings battery I think it needs yeah I think it need to be a fullon modal stop what you're doing we've detected a problem with your battery and here's what we've done click here for more information and it will take you to an Apple support page explaining the situation in more detail now I'm not talking molar calculations about cathodes and anodes and chemical depletion and filament formation or any of that crap well you you can one of the things that happens is when you take your phone into apple and you say to the genius I think my battery's getting old they can plug in and get diagnostic logs of what your battery charge cycle looks like and they can say you know your battery is simply not holding as much charge as it did when it was new and here's what the drop off looks like and they'll never really show you this chart they'll kind of turn it away and shield your eyes from it but I've seen it it exists and and they know that when your battery's gone through a certain number of Cycles which is Char full charged depleted full charged depleted that it has an aging effect on the battery over time batteries don't hold as much energy so when it reaches that point and the Mac does this too the Mac will say service battery soon or or battery needs service right it'll tell you that you have an issue well the Mac is way more transparent about this because it's up on your menu bar yeah so you know there are some people that would have liked to have a toggle option that said no don't do this I'd prefer to have the unexpected shutdowns let me have full power yeah no that that's the the undervoltage condition can actually damage iPhone Hardware so that's not that in no way is that ex that's a great wish list idea that's not reality the the the other thing is like you say a modal interaction that says before you go forward here's what's happened we detected this problem your battery is this old with this many cycles on it it's just not going to work well go and change your battery service your battery or expect that you're kind going to have a slower phone to accommodate it yeah I mean some of this is on the Genius Bar too The Genius Bar very much operates on scripts Apple Services always operated on scripts and back in the day you would have a problem flowchart where you would say okay you've got this problem replace this part then replace this part replace this part and replace this part until you figure out the problem is and you really didn't have a lot of leeway on that well Apple Stores and especially the Apple Geniuses had early on up until the hiring of John Broward from Dixons you remember that guy yeah I do I and I know where you're going with this they had a lot more latitude in terms of what they could do for a consumer in their store uh for service before John Broward was hired after his hiring yeah things became a lot more stringent the script got even harder yeah yeah I think the problem is twofold I think that Apple's a victim of its own success in that regard I I think that they used to have higher standards for geniuses than they have now they used to take the Geniuses and fly them out to California for I think it was six weeks of training they don't do that anymore I I I think that there's a combination of factors that have led to this point but there is apple has a reputation for arrogance and Apple retail has a reputation for arrogance too and when you come into the Genius Bar and say look this is my problem you know I think I've got a problem with this and I understand where they have to run through everything that they have to run through in accordance with their script but they they don't pay a whole lot of attention to users well and part of the problem is also that when when you're the customer facing them in the Genius Bar mic they have a real problem because you know stuff you have know used scurry and when when Tyson's was one of the four Apple Stores and I had something really recalcitrant that I had to bring in and get fixed they they would literally Scurry yeah because no one wants to deal with Mike Worley who's got a problem that can't solve on his own because he knows stuff about what's actually wrong with it if if it's you know someone who doesn't have that knowledge going in front of them they can go ahead and run their script and they'll figure it out and they'll be fine but when you actually know what you're doing so I walk in with my phone right I've gone in with my phone under Apple Care a couple of times and said here's the problem and by the way I've already erased and started it fresh without restoring so it's a brand new phone and I'm still experiencing the problem and here's me demonstrating the problem and they go you know what you know exactly what you're doing you're going to do the same things we were going to make you do in stand here for 40 minutes restoring your phone let's just go get the back oh great that's that's fantastic I think maybe it's just the volume of my stores here is the problem then so so kudos to your Apple Store but you know less less positive around here but you know it's it's the freaking Thunderdome in the app BR crab tree volume all is on the spot they're good good but anyway back to the original Point circling back to the original point this is a communication utter failure on Apple's part this is Apple's failure to communicate the problem to Geniuses to have them deal the situation in a more sane fashion this is failure Val to communicate to users that okay look your your battery is toast we're sorry it's the way it goes it's a chemical process you just kind of got to deal with it or you can bring in the phone for 79 bucks and get a new battery and it's a failure of communicating with venues like CNN and apple Insider and everybody else to say look here is the situation we shouldn't have had to get a statement out of the blue yesterday saying well this is our response and this is this is several days several days after Reddit and geekbench published about this well I had a friend who two months ago had an iPhone 6 with the battery expanding it had actually literally pushed the screen right off of the uh the case on his iPhone and it was bulging I said listen that's not safe it's not good to have a bulging battery go into the store and I made the appointment for him right there on my phone and sent him into the store and he went into the store and he said they they charged me 80 bucks and I said that's fine what they what happened well they changed the battery they changed the phone and it's so much faster oh my God it's so much faster he had no idea and I said well that's interesting that the phone is now faster with a fresh battery he said yeah really is it's great I was I was so mad at iOS 11 and now he's happy yeah and and I and I know Apple Insider listeners and readers understand this but if you see your friends and they've got a slightly slightly swollen screen send them to the Apple Store and get it fixed it doesn't matter that the phone still works it's just going to get worse it's not going to get better and this was not slightly this was this was literally quite it had pushed the screen off of the case of the phone and you could see the bulging battery it was bad well that's another physical reality when when the battery has in certain failure conditions the battery will off gas and and that's what caused the Note 7 flammability is this off gasing so and and the puncture of the and the puncture of the really resilient membrane outside the battery so batteries are are chemical processes batteries are physical processes and frankly they need to be respected and what Apple has done to respect that is you're storing a lot of kinetic energy that energy has to go somewhere yeah this is I mean Apple sin is not that they did this apple sin is not telling anyone that they did this yeah this is the the poor communication is really what the problem is here and the poor communication my fear is what's going to haunt Apple for years to come and and because I I think of that because I know people that have avoided buying music from iTunes for years because they were worried that iTunes had DRM and that they would only buy from the Amazon music store and this is the year 2017 and I tried to explain that in 2009 Apple stopped putting DRM on anything and they went ahead and made all of the purchases that people made DRM free this is taken care of years ago oh no no I'm still not buying anything from Apple I can't trust that it won't have DRM end Gadget end gadget's headline about this is Apple confirms that is slowing down older devices and that's what people are going to remember and they're going to remember that for years and years to come I mean that that makes lots of clicks no lie that's that makes lots of clicks but it's not accurate it is not an accurate headline it is it is a true headline but it is not an accurate headline and that's and CNN has done the same thing and fox has done the same thing and everybody's done the same thing and now local news stations this morning NBC 4 here in DC did well Apple's confirmed that if you have an older phone it's slowing you down come on and and yeah yeah those guys are IR responsible but I would say that Apple has shot themselves in the foot this is this is those guys are irresponsible but so was Apple yep the root of the matter is Apple not communicating this well and as far as the forcing you to buy a new phone you know what it's going to force you to buy a new phone your phone shutting down at random you know it's not going to force you to buy a new phone as much your phone's slowing down on you so you know you can scream to high heaven for whatever conspiracy theory you may have or whatever hate or love you have for Apple that this is or is not but the truth matter is this is in a bad situation this is the best of the choices well the best of the choices would have been telling people what they were doing the best choices for physics was to slow it down and not hurt the rest of the device and allow you to keep using it for a little longer but but honestly yeah they they couldn't have popped up a dialogue they couldn't have put something on the screen really yeah that would have solved it that they monitor their battery enough if you can if you can slow down the processor on your phone you can tell the user it's it's it's that simple there there are no words there really are no words this well I don't know I think we just went through about 2,000 of them yeah so I mean there there are words but this is this is a damage control situation for Apple it's not a great situation you know like I said if you're listening this podcast you you either like apple or you hate it whichever but you're not in that neutral middle part this just who we get for listeners and and look at the situation and look at it objectively and realize that yeah it's a screw up but boy it could have been a whole lot worse I I want a better Apple I want an apple that strives to do a little harder and this this is a big Miss yeah I do too I mean there there's a lot of things that I don't like apple like I said before Apple's a victim of its own success I I wrote an article about a week and a half ago about Apple's quality assurance and and you know it's possibly the most mik article in the history of mik articles that I you know I said that Apple needed a a quality insurance system similar to what the Navy crash instituted no that's a terrible choice of words but what the Navy instit sued when it lost a submarine because of material failure in the early' 60s I it's it it has to be that dramatic because of the sheer number of people that are using the devices and using the software and rely on it for security and safety from a day-to-day basis and this is related this is a choice Apple made somewhere on the corporate level that maybe isn't the best choice for consumers I agree I I so so agree I'm gonna shift gears yep I'm gonna go ahead and put our interview with dried right here in the middle sweet I'll go get a coffee go get a coffee I'm not going to do it right this second but you get a coffee and we'll be right back welcome to this segment of the Apple Insider podcast I'm Victor and I'm here with Yosi hey so Yosi you are the founder of dried yeah that's right and uh the domain is dried. that's d r d doio now I I started speaking with you a year ago about uh a dashboard camera project that you were working on and at at that time I was doing crazy things like taking a Raspberry Pi and putting a camera on it and then running your app on the iPhone so why don't you tell me a little bit about what's changed since then sure so uh we started um two years ago DED as a company started two years ago uh with the bigger vision of uh shedding lights on on road events and we just thought how can we take uh events that happen on the road and today uh just um didn't get anywhere and make them uh visible and actionable so um we've developed um an operation system for uh for dash cams uh we call it dried OS um and basically this OS allows um you or any other maker to take a Raspberry Pi and just uh with um very limited uh amount of work to put it on your windshield and have a fully functional um dash cam uh so you were one of the first uh to actually try this um uh so basically the experience uh was is very slick you you just have an app uh the app connects with Wii to the dash cam and you can just see all the video clips that the dash cam uh have taken um we've also built a beautiful case uh to wrap uh to wrap this uh Raspberry Pi and make it easy to mount on the windshield um and now we're basically announcing uh dried zero which is our second generation uh um of dash cam um so basically this takes all of the good good things we learned uh from the first uh generation and basically make it way way smaller so this is why we call it dried zero obviously it's based on the Raspberry Pi zero um and the the size of this is just like the world's smallest dash cam um obviously it has all of the connected features um we've been developing for the past two years so what I'm looking at on the Wind screen here in this car that we're sitting in is a a 3D printed cover with uh mounting for the camera it it looks like a professional piece it looks like something that could go into production tomorrow yeah uh so dry zero uh is ready to go where um we've buil build it um um to a to a deeper um level than the the first generation we've learned a lot on on how to actually build manufacture uh devices um this is something we didn't know how to do uh last time we actually sell the dev kits uh on the website uh right now so uh if you can't wait to our Kickstarter to be launched um by the way it's going to be on uh February of 2018 um you can go ahead and just buy a DA kit online and we'll send you one of this cool 3D printed models cool and so you've got the the OS you've got the enclosure and camera that wrap around the Pi Z is the computing power Y and you've got the app and the cloud infrastructure that's right so um we believe that um building a connected dash cam is all about um the ecosystem so um you can have an amazing app but if your camera uh don't have the ability to to share with a click of a button you can even miss the point and if you already share something and it just goes nowhere and you need to share you know uh three 100 megabyte of a file to your friends with WhatsApp uh then you missed missed the point as well and we believe that the people should be um they they should want to share and the way uh we want to encourage them to share is by basically building a community around these videos so if you share something and put it on YouTube and no one sees that um it's kind of takes a fun out of sharing videos uh we want we want some kind of continuity so after you share the video something should happen and currently what we offering is basically the community can see these videos discuss them and um hopefully we'll we will introduce uh some many interesting uh Partnerships with local police forces or local community managers uh to see how we can uh improve um basically how people drive in their uh in their area right so let's say 99% of the people drive perfectly 99% of the time yeah except in Russia those dash cam videos are any evidence that's right um so this is just to to you know when you're talking about forwarding videos onto police or making them available to insurance companies it's for that 1% of 1% of the time that that someone behaves badly kind of thing sure yeah I think um I strongly believe and the data shows it that most of the drivers like the the vast majority of drivers are good drivers and um they don't necessarily um know what to do with bread drivers and obviously police force can uh arrest or just we as a society don't have the tools to stop these kind of behaviors for for this 1% who who drives recklessly and I believe that the only way we can do it is by just leveraging the enormous technology jump that we have we had in recent years um you know to build something like this five 10 years ago it was just um unrealistic um um and I think today with a with with like putting dash cams Wi-Fi dash cams on on people cars just asking them nicely to share it um I think um not not necessarily we don't want put people in jail that's not our mission we just want people to be aware that if you do something bad if you drive um like a criminal someone will uh might film you so I I I I want to tell you a quick story about an experiment that was conducted in Israel um uh the the police took um a road called a bloody road that has 60 casualties per month uh fatalities per month and they put a police car every mile uh along this route for a week and the number of fatalities has dropped in 60% so like you need to understand that's actually life being saved um that's not no gimmick and no uh PR stunt people actually got to be with their family that evening in of being dead so we know that if we put a police car in every corner um we will stop this kind of a behavior but we just can't do this and hopefully with dried this Vision becomes a reality and interesting you remind me of something that that we did back where I live which is the the police realized that they couldn't put a police car everywhere that they needed to for for situations like that so what they did was they contacted the people that make props for Hollywood movies mhm and they made fake police cars and they parked fake police cars that were props out in the and I'm sure it helps it it helps yeah for example you can see U tricks like that people just um the the the government puts lights green like blue and red just to scare you off and people immediately take their every H the brakes yeah yeah so by the way that that the first generation of dried was white so what what we thought is by putting it white uh people will see it in the rear view mirror and know okay this guy the back has a dried I'll drive better uh which didn't work out um but but basically I think the the notion that someone might film you and upload it to a place that will eventually you don't want it to to get there uh will do the trick so how do people get a a dried and there are a lot of people working on different things in the car and where does dried fit within the car within all these other things working within the car yeah so basically we build dried as an open Source uh project so our goal is uh not only to uh sell dried with our software but to uh make other manufacturers Implement our software in their uh dash cams and by doing that basically we're opening um a door for developers to integrate with dri OS regarding of what Hardware um the the dash cam is running on so basically for example if you have a kind of um um reverse um monitor uh it will it it can just get integrated into dried uh dried OS uh and then basically just improve the quality of of the product or any other kind of uh car Gadget that currently um will fail as a standalone project but product but if it will be able to connect to something with more processing power um you know some kind of centralized uh interface for for um for use uh I think this will be a game changer in the car how is dy different yeah so basically you have a lot of dash cams today on the market um some looks better some worse some cheap some expensive um but I think the the what we we need to the way we need to see dried is basically a connected dash cam and um to be a truly connected dash cam we believe that the the the essence here is how do you take the video that the camera taken uh and share it with your friends so basically this is this is what we believe um connected dashcam should do and uh the dash cam is in today Market other than being um some have apps that you can just um log into the dash cam and see the videos but it they weren't designed um specifically to share they just want to sell you dash cam give you a way an easy way to access it uh and that's it if you think about why why all most of the the dash cams has screens it because they just want to give you an AI to to deal with it h to to change the settings and and all of other options to see videos uh if you think about it you don't need screen uh in your dash cam it just completely useless but they do it because they well you need to change the settings you need to do it and it's very weird and bizarre way to build a product but that's reality um other than that we we think that a dash cam should be seamless and this is how we've developed DED zero we basically try to design it and make it look invisible um and I think if you just compare it with other dash cams on the market today you'll see a big and substantial difference on basically um you you get something like a GoPro on on these cameras uh and on the contrary on D zero you just have a super small uh package and all you see is the button uh that you're supposed to press so basically um smaller and connected that's that's the two main features okay what happens when the worst happens what what what is the process when someone hits your car yeah so I think maybe we can even take a step back you just imagine you're driving with your family your kids are on the back and suddenly someone just cuts you on road almost kill everyone and you just you you you know until today the only technology could use is just to honk maybe curse maybe not cuz your kids are are the back but uh you didn't really have any anything to do uh but imagine a world that you do have a drw ID installed all you need to do is just Reach Out press the button when you press the button uh a lot of things happen basically um the device notifies your phone that an event has occurred the camera saves the date um that the event is occurred and transfer the video of this event to your mobile phone so you can choose either you want to share it immediately to the dried cloud and then share it with the community share it with your friends later on whatever you want or you can just um wait uh and upload it when you're at home on Wi-Fi so basically you have the control the most important thing is the video is never lost so the the second you press on the button the video is is there it will not get deleted it's transferred to your phone uh when it can and basically you have the power uh to and and control of who sees this video when it gets uploaded what metad data you want to include you want to include GPS you don't want to include GPS um another cool feature is you can just post it as Anonymous so for example if you want to um upload a video of a bad driver and don't want him to I don't know come to your house see you or you just don't want to feel bad about it uh you can just toggle the anonymous um switch and just no one will know will never will ever know it was you and this is by the way a feature we we believe that um a lot of people will use because um people are okay with the the the idea of sharing reckless drivers it will be just best if it weren't them who share it so yeah so so the idea of making it Anonymous will increase the amount of people who are willing to share right right and I think eventually people will lose it like if you think that the internet back in the days were um people were using ls's and basically usernames and no one will use their real real face or real picture and eventually Facebook came and then all the social media platforms and you you use your name today on online wherever you go and I think this will this is what happened with dve first people will be afraid when uh eventually they'll they'll see that their videos gets popular and uh people are discussing of uh some kind of a I I I don't want to be too um um too big and just say that we will change the way people drive in the world um I certainly hope so but I think it's a process but I do think we will give people uh the option to do something about it and I think this is um this is an interesting point because today um even if you have a dash cam and just to take this event and you know you need to take your SD card connect it to your computer so Troublesome um and so you just give up eventually and I think that if you give people an option you give them um an option to help Str help the struggle and help um get all these drivers off the road I think they will use it uh I again I we already have uh a ton of users who use it and we see how uh the impulse button that's the button you click to share is increased um conversion and people upload much more videos uh having this button um so I think um like giving people the choice giving people the the option will make uh will make uh will make this uh this you know subject a reality so who should buy one of these yeah so um basically we've buil dried uh as an open platform but it's not necessarily meant for makers makers will find it very familiar because we use a Raspberry Pi as uh the the processing power for the unit along with other electronics but you don't necessarily have to be a maker in order to use dried uh we're very very focused on UI um and basically the experience is so slick and so seamless um and you will not need to um SSH into the device just to take a picture that's not our goal but if you are a maker uh and you love making things on your own um I encourage you to go ahead and Dy IO and just uh download the software right now and use it on your Raspberry Pi uh if you like it just go ahead and buy a kit and put it in your car right what I'm thinking about is is so is this something that I should get from my wife in her car is is this something that we should put in my mother-in-law's car or my father-in-law's car I'll yeah I'll I'll tell you a a quick quick story my wife um got her driver license 4 months ago true story um I'm not that young but uh well she she she was afraid of it you live in a city where you don't need to drive and there's no place to park anyway uh yeah you're right so um so I she was user number one I put a drive zero in her uh in her car three days after she came back home so excited she someone almost killed me checked out this video uh and obviously she's not the most techy guy techy person uh in the world and uh she found what she can do with it um and I think your wife or mother law or or any other family member um will find this product useful uh first and foremost even without the impulse button I think a dash cam is a necessary um thing to have I mean in Russia it's like 100% of people have dash cams for other reasons um in the states it's less popular uh and I think that's about that's about to change that has to change because um even though um insurance is great and you don't have corrupt policemen to to um protect you from I think um this is just a protection you need to prove when you're not at fault and uh this is something most Americans don't have today and I hope uh they will have uh in the future so anyone should have dried um no matter if you're tacky or not techy no matter if you use the impulse button or not and my advice to you is buy two because dried will work both on the windshield and uh on the r uh windshield as well so uh they will just sync uh together and you will just get a more complete view of the road and and uh of the next of of the accident fantastic well thank you so our listeners should go to drive. yeah if you're interested in buying a kit you can go to drive iio you have a store button there link and just you can order online right now if you're wanted to wait uh to the final product uh we're launching a Kickstarter on February 18 so just go to our website subscribe to our mailing list we will let we will let you know uh when we're out um and for the makers uh we're encourage you to go to dry. iocs and um just download the dri OS and use it with your Raspberry Pi today fantastic thank you so much Yosi I really appreciate it thank you for having me so this is something that's that's interesting and it's interesting because this is something we've seen happen again and again throughout the history of of desktop operating systems a little bit and we've seen it with the ideas so so first of all I want to go back in history and I want to cite BOS BOS was a thing that was around in in 96 97 98 99 kind of time frame and BOS got purchased by uh by Palm essentially by 3com and then 3om sold off the software assets to a company called access and there was for a time a mobile OS a mobile phone OS powered by BOS that would have given us complete full multitasking uh independent multitasking invent processing the whole thing in a phone touchcreen about two and a half three years before iPhone existed and it was brilliant and it got killed by access but the idea was that you had a desktop operating system and a mobile operating system based off the same core that could run some of the same applications and we almost got it it almost existed and then and then we had Windows 7 no Windows 8 Windows 10 and Windows 8 and Windows 10 allowed people to compile applications and just as a checkbox make it for the desktop and for mobile at the same time and now we have rumored Apple's project marzipan and marzipan if that code name is at all correct is a way to allow iOS apps to run on the Mac it is that that is an accurate statement but I think I think that the original source of the story Mark Gman Bloomberg I think he he is misinterpreting the intent of the project I I think if I think that Apple's got Mac OS and iOS ready to go on toasters I I think that they've got compilations for every possible microarchitecture that they could get their hands on and this is an architectural thing and Apple has started doing this kind of thing and migrating to a common code base and they started doing with xcode I mean you think that Apple out of the benevolence of their heart told developers to start using xcode about a decade ago or or recently said you know encouraging Swift or or encouraging Swift I mean this is this is a convergence to a common code base and they have always said that iOS is is a branch of of of at the time Mac OS 10 now it's Mac OS but whatever you know a branding and repetition in branding is a is a story for another day right so German's susp German's proposition here is that apple is going to do this to blur the lines between them and increase software offerings on Mac yeah I don't think that's it at all we take issue with that as the purpose that's not the purpose I don't think that's it at all so what what I think this is I think this is a common code base I think this is to say look at our new Macbook with the a whatever series processor congratulations it's Mac OS you can run all your old apps I don't think this has anything to do with building up the Mac Mac OS app store which is you know admitt kind of sad I I think this has everything to do with Apple's future in two or three or four years well we've always talked about how the the future of computing as as Apple has seen it and as they've talked about it has been that the iPad is the computer that the iPhone is the computer that you use a Mac when you need to do something heavy duty and you know in every kind of of screenshot that they use in the retail stores for example they always use full screen just like you'd see if you were on an iPad and so this is again more blurring the lines and more making things more uh similar across the lines than different yeah I mean there were a lot to do a lot was made of the of the a of the a11 of the a11 bionic processors benchmarks when they came out how they're nearly as fast as a MacBook Pro or faster than a MacBook Pro but benchmarks never ever tell the whole story The Aeries processor you can't really the architecture isn't really designed to take two a11 processors and have them operate in tandem so as far as a multicore beast like the iMac Pro or even the 15-inch macro well they are multicore beasts inside the a six and the two going on there yeah by themselves but they they won't really coordinate because of the architecture they won't really coordinate with another A1 in the same Hardware right so yeah well I agree with your assessment that they are multi-core beasts by themselves they're not going to be multiple processors scattered all over a machine at least with the current architecture that may change but with the current architecture that's not really that possible so I agree people need trucks I like having a truck but other people don't need trucks like the iPad gave the internet back to the senior citizens in my family mhm as opposed to sitting at their Packard Bell that they had in 90 whatever yeah their Gateway 2000 this is yeah this is while this is a an existing move if the if the report is accurate and I have no reason to believe that it's not given that Apple has always had things going on on other processors this is this is a move toward the future of a converged future where your software is interchangeable on a certain platform that Apple deems it so yeah I don't think this is going to me me that a Mac software with the flip of a switch will work on iOS and I don't think this is going to mean that iOS software with the flip of a switch is going to work on Mac OS and like I said I don't think this has anything to do with the renovation of the Mac App Store this is the future this is a bridge of the future see I I kind of thought about it like this if people use storyboards and xcode then they can make things that work for iPhone and iPad and if you make another storyboard you can work for Mac OS potentially right you know it's it's just a matter of making your app compatible across all the different deliverable platforms oh yeah I'm not saying that that's not possible with this because I mean if the if the reports are accurate it it clearly is it's just not the end game it's not it's not the whole story no you know I keep looking at at development on iPad and thinking about what that's like you know we have Swift playgrounds what's it take to get to an xcode on iPad what's it take to be able to you know compile applications directly on an iOS device and then distribute them to the store it takes Apple's willingness right but I don't think that f is that far away well I don't it could be tomorrow if Apple wanted it to be I think I just don't think right now Apple wants that future today people say that Apple they don't plan well but I don't think that's the case at all I I think that Apple has a 10-year plan and I think that of the beats that they've wanted to hit for the last 15 years I think they've hit them all the you know various Hardware platforms begat other Hardware platforms which begat software platforms which begat services and and and that's where we're at right now but there is there always has to be something in the future and apple apple can't wait on Intel Apple Intel hasn't hit their hasn't hit their Milestones not by a long shot and and the notion that an A series processor like the a11 bionic could be used in a 12-in Macbook seems entirely possible sure I I think that the user base will Revolt if they can't use their Mac software on a Mac branded machine and I don't think the I I don't think the iPad heavy users will be that excited about an iPad with a mandatory attached keyboard okay but hold up cuz I want to I want to explore this for 10 seconds sure goad your your uh the elderly folks in your family mhm have moved away from the need for a keyboard and have have gone iPad only as their computer yep the kids in my family one of them has access to a Macbook and uses it for a couple of things that work better in the browser than they do on the iPad um sure Rosetta Stone online is is one example of that okay but for the most part they are they are phone and I and iPad only their iOS only yeah and so one proposition is that you know the you use the Computing environment that you grow up with and what that environment becomes you know this used to be thing in schools right if you had uh Microsoft Office on every machine in school the kids all used office and then they all went to work and used office at work kind of thing and so so there's a whole generation of kids growing up using mobile mobile devices and iPads and that's what the future looks like of computing for them I don't disagree so this this future where Apple moves things to mobile processors and some devices have keyboards built into them and some don't but they all work similarly in software is is how they view this progression of computing and Computing future which is why I think that marzipan is the bridge to that future yeah what's interesting about it is that historically when we see a leak like this that it becomes reality it ships Within about two to four years yeah I tend to agree on that I mean the the first inklings that Apple was considering Intel and Intel shift start submerge submerge surface around 2004 and it wasn't until 2006 that it actually happened but even before then next step was available with an Intel build on the wall OS 10 beta stuff was available for Intel well before that I mean you couldn't run betas on Intel but uh I ran Darwin I thought it was 2005 that's when the betas for 2005 with the the iMac change over cuz that was the uh the the Mac World in 2006 no 2005 it was 2005 was it 200 the shift in 2006 that's right but Mac World 2005 when they announced the MacBook Pro and the iMac yep when they announced the shift that's right yeah but but back in 2001 I had Darwin running without the uh the os10 interface but the underlying core of os 10 running on Intel yeah the yeah with the next step core sure it's yeah I mean the writing was on the wall clearly before the show I mean so the the the com the the prevailing wisdom that it was a big surprise by Apple when they rolled out the Intel shift it really wasn't a huge surprise well and the power PC shift didn't tell as well the Rosetta shift right that that we heard about Rosetta for a while before that and the same is true of of mobile devices so for years we wrote about the rumored tablet that Apple's making and here I up on cider we covered that for years going back to like 2003 2005 and it wasn't until 2009 we saw the phone and what had happened was that they'd been working on the tablet all along and then shifted gears to make it a phone and then only came back and made the iPad later in 2010 but right and this goes back to my bat bat bat like something from the Bible the silmer I mean you know that's what I'm saying is that timing wise when we hear about something and publish it you can expect to see it as reality in about two to four years yeah some version of it an iteration of of the leak that we had yeah come comes down a little bit further down the road yeah this isn't a tomorrow technology Bloomberg uh Bloomberg said that they expect something at wwc and maybe it will and maybe it won't I don't know but the developers do have to have a heads up on an architecture shift for there not to be mass chaos well so what happens is that that you have to do something right and so you can do a surprise announcement but if you're going to do a surprise announcement you have to have seated it among a specific set of developers that you can say by the way we've got Adobe on board we've got Microsoft on board we've got these people on board and their stuff already works on it and they'll demonstrate it I mean can you ever actually say you have Adobe on board before the shifts Adobe is always taken forever to properly shift over to your architecture they showed Adobe running on OS 10 in 2001 when they announced the beta yeah ready to ship and running are not necessarily the same thing but saying they're on board you can that's a fact you can do that's a fact uh the other thing that you can do besides having a a small cadra of companies on board in the firstand when you launch is to also lay forth here's how the migration pattern works and so you know besides having Coco for OS 10 they also had carbon that allowed people to bring their older apps easily um with power PC to Intel shift we had Rosetta so that it wasn't that hard to translate and make your apps run anyway well yeah the point being is Apple this is not the first time Apple has done this if if this is accurate this is the fourth we had 68k to power PC we had the we had power PC to Intel we had the code the code Divergence between Mac OS and iOS and here we go again now we have so uh os9 no system 9 OS 9 to OS 10 um oh yeah that yeah that was a huge one too power I'm counting five yeah that wasn't a that wasn't a hardware shift you're right but yeah that's a good shift too that was a painful time yeah get so my I was Thinking of U this one company and I blanked on their name the cor Cork Express Cork Express was a nightmare at that time you remember that yeah yeah I do it's yeah I was working I was working support at a at a specialist at the time and yeah you're right that was that was not right so between os9 and Os 10 Cork Express did two things one they cut off all of their us and Western World development and shipped it all to India which would have been fine they also tried to convert it all to Java which would have been fine at the same time as they tried to move from os9 to OS 10 which would have been fine if they did any one of these things singly but trying to do all of them in combination was a nightmare and it's it's actually honestly quite impressive that they stayed in business at all and with any with any shift with any major architectural shift be it Hardware or software there are going to be horror stories there are always Horror Stories the I'm I'm trying to it was a long time from the power from the uh Power PC the shift to power PC but there's just some just on the tip of my tongue oh yeah most of the control panels broke most of the cdvs broke most of the extensions broke the you know device drivers broke everywhere just about every device driver broke it was a miracle that they were able to make the power PC transition at all it really was because first of all the company had no money at that time they had enough money to live for three months that's that's how much they had Apple was down to being able to pay salaries for three months they had jobs coming in in what mid 97 saying we have to make this transition to power PC and dealing with people who who Wen motivated trying do it they they hacked the thing together they got it running and that was enough to try and get it out the door but every part back then in Apple's history was a leap of faith at trying to just stay alive yeah that that's not what this is I mean is an architectural change just the same and you can you can you can feel the Winds of Change coming and apple Insider listeners and readers have have felt the change coming too and there are some pretty strong opinions about it and yeah let's continue the conversation but let's not assume that we have any kind of sway and what Apple's going to do about it uh no yeah our only sway is whether or not we buy the devices right or in the case of the Mac App Store whether or not we even use it there you go speaking of software though Apple has issued public betas of iOS 11.2.5 and tvos 11.2.5 these are the second betas uh these are the public betas that follow on the heels of the developer seeds and so you know anyone in Apple's public beta software program can go ahead and get them with the correct certificate the thing that I'm unclear on there doesn't seem to be any new features uncovered so this this seems to be probably releases focused on security and maintenance yeah I'm a little puzzled by the 0 five on that it's it's it's different than what Apple's normally done I'm running a couple of the betas right now I've got it on I've got it on one of my Macs here and I'm not really seeing any problems I'm seeing some more refinements on the egpu thing I've got it on the on the on the Apple TV I'm not seeing anything there I'm not seeing any imminent shift toward airpl 2 which has got to happen sooner rather than later I'd think at this point but maybe that's the holdup for the airpod for the homepod I don't know it's there there's a lot going on that could be happening but doesn't seem to be happening so I I think we're going to have to see as this beta marches on what gets add it or doesn't yeah now speaking about Apple TV TV OS so first of all Apple TV was back on Amazon this is of course no big surprise because we were told that that basically Apple TV be back at am Amazon no we were told that Apple TV was kicked out of Amazon because it didn't support the Amazon Prime Instant Video and customer confusion Amazon said which is the biggest well it was customer confus their own creation yeah they did it they're they're the ones responsible for their app on the Apple TV and they just chose not to do it two years ago so and now it's back and so rightfully so the Apple TV was allowed to sell amagon again and it came back and you know that it came back is nice people were watching to see when it would come back we have the app but we still don't have it back on Amazon we have the app we still don't have back on Amazon all the tweets read the Apple TV 4K was back on Amazon and sold out within hours of launching yeah actually was 38 minutes wow did you time that yeah 38 minutes uh no I look through some some Wayback machine stuff and some other logs in 38 minutes amazing hang on a second I some just broke through my DN day which means it's a very small amount of people give me give me just one second okay we're good I can put it off for a few minutes so the Apple still has some retail availability of the 32 gigabyte model for same day pickup the 64 gigabyte model is just sold out you can't get one at Apple you can't get one at Amazon uh any new order that you place is going to ship four or five weeks after Christmas I I dig the Apple TV I don't see the point of the 64 gig one not least not right now the the the apps available for it are few and far between and there's no technical reason that you need the additional storage for media streaming so right now frankly get the 32 gig you you don't need the 64 gig get the 32 gig do the Direct TV promo for four months or whatever however you get one it it's there's no compelling reason for the 64 gig and while it's great that people are buying it I I'm just not Ser I I bought 64 gig models of the Apple TV fourth generation that is the one preceding the 4cade and MH I I have not used all the storage that's on them I thought that I would I thought for sure that there would be a compelling reason to do it that it would be games that it would be that it would be uh video downloaded to the device and stored locally for some occasions I did too yeah I did too they just never be reason yep and I you know I've been using it with the prime app and with the uh the the comparing it with the Amazon Prime Fire TV devices and and honestly I love it as a device I think Amazon has some work to do on their app of the one of the best things so this is it the I I I dislike Hulu's new app and I dislike the the Fire TV app but I'm glad that it's there and glad they're both there for the content and so the best thing is that on the Apple TV they use Apple's TV app which is also available on iPads iPhones and iOS devices everywhere so you can use the content you can access the content without having to be subject to Amazon's interface yeah and I agree I I think that's a great addition I would like them to ify the 51 audio situation sooner rather than later it makes no sense to me that it's only in 4k cont 51 audio system I I yes okay so I I understand that it may not have been a priority but the Fire TV supports it the consoles support it just about every Smart TV support got right for theu what theck problem for Roku right so what's the problem here so it's it's hard for me to not attribute malice to it but I have no proof of that it just the beta process was long enough the beta process the app didn't really change much since the beta was launched in the summer so what's interesting is that there were people who tried to take the Apple part and look inside and see what they could learn from it and what what I think people learned from this was that it appears as if the same app is the same app that's being used on Smart TVs that is the same app that is being used on Roku and all these other devices and that they've just making one giant monolithic app with support for every device in it I would be inclined to believe that it seems to me that the change here was that they just moved over the IOS app and the IOS app only is only is uh is PCM audio so the I I just think it's a straight migration from the iOS code base which is existed for two years but they were when people took this apart they saw references to Samsung TVs in there they saw references to all kinds of things that you you wouldn't think would be in an iOS app and there were developers who said was it this much work to Port the thing over or that have been less work if they just clean room started over that that's an interesting question not being a developer I can't really comment on that specifically but as a user I can say that the the app is is functional but there there's some attention to detail issues yep all the same I'm glad we have it oh yeah I'm glad too it's it it makes the Apple TV the one box rule them all you and I aren't the only ones that are glad because apparently it's the most popular Apple TV app at launch yeah I I saw that and that's great the the initi reporting was kind of confused on that we uh a venue said that they got a statement from Amazon that said that it's the most popular Apple TV of app of all time and that didn't seem right so we didn't initially report on it and we got some clarification over the course of the next couple hours which is at launch which is still a nebulous time frame I have no doubt that the app is extremely popular I would have Amazon Prime for the shipping benefits alone the video is just a bonus as far as I'm concerned well I think that's how it is for most Amazon on Prime subscribers so it's there was no doubt that this was going to be a a welld downloaded app I'm just going to I'm just this is the thing is Amazon when they talk about how great something is or how popular something is they never specify what that means in numbers you know Apple when they have their quarter reports Financial calls they'll tell you for for some things we sold this many of whatever but well that that's the key right for some things that they used to break down Max sales by family and they stopped doing that down iPod sales by family they stopped doing that too yep yep and they don't even bother breaking out Apple watch sales because it's some kind of competitive Advantage which I'm not even clear on so I you know Amazon can has just as many Shenanigans as Apple does so right or more but but still Prime Video has been a big hit we we agree on that right yep oh yeah oh God yeah it had a ton of first week downloads yep okay so that's that's good the best part about this is that it does support the integration with the TV app mhm there you go all right well we've come to the end I think is there anything else you'd like to discuss what could there possibly be more to discuss and it what is normally a very slow holiday buildup is this the past couple of weeks has been insane for news it's been so much busier this holiday season than in oh man in previous I want to say 10 years you know I'll tell you what we didn't talk about we didn't talk about title nope we did title apps on Apple TV there you go done what we didn't talk about is Samsung putting out 180 to 200 million iPhone LED panels in 2018 yep process Improvement is always a good thing and we were pretty sure that was going to happen so yep there you go covered it Samsung is going to make more because Apple's presumably going to make more phones and sell more Yep Samsung's got to make more because it makes them money and apple is more than happy to take the screens there you go there you go well this brings us to another end of the Apple Insider podcast if you've enjoyed this podcast please go ahead and tell us about it I'm I'm Victor marks I'm at V marks on Twitter um Mike you can go ahead and reach out to Mike or reach out to Neil for that matter and tell Neil how great we were we'd appreciate it or feel free if you like to to leave a good review on iTunes we always appreciate those two and we're grateful for them we will be back next week with more Apple Insider podcast so long everybodyyou're listening to the Apple Insider podcast welcome back to the Apple Insider podcast this is episode 152 I'm your host Mike Worley well Mike I am so glad you're able to make it I really am appreciative of it uh we we're we're down a little bit right now because Neil is on his way to Florida and and Mikey who's joined us in the past is unable to join us right now and so I'm so glad you're here good to know that I'm the third tier no no you number two actually M Mikey took himself out of the running long before but uh no no you you number two Neil got on a plane so you and I man that's it sounds good let's do it yeah well uh later in the show I'm going to put in an interview that we did with a fellow named Yosi Neiman and Yosi is the founder of dried. which is an iOS connected dashboard Cloud connected camera it's a very cool project and it's really cool and I hope it makes people safer drivers so we're going to get to that but before we do we're going to talk a little about about what's happened in the last week since we last talked there's been a lot going on and and Mike you know we are doing this just people know we we get comments from time to time about the quality of the podcast and I appreciate it because I try and deliver the very best edits and the very best quality that we can recording wise Mike and I are not in the same room no we are currently 5,8 77 miles apart yeah I think people get the idea that Apple Insider is the shadowy conglomerate and we all wear robes and there's a 60 watt bulb hanging from an indistinct ceiling or something like that and first rule is you don't talk about the cabal right I mean Neil's in New York I'm near Washington DC Mikey Campbell is in Hawaii Rogers in Texas Malcolm is in Wales in the UK and today you're in Israel we are a worldwide program we are indeed we address everything knowing that I want people to understand that if there is a delay in the audio it's not because we're not trying it's because we're very far apart trying to bring the world a little bit smaller for you here we go good news is the iMac Pro has begun to ship yes we've started to see uh shipment emails not just of our own for own review but from some of our readers as well and you know it when when Apple begins to ship they if they have stock on hand they ship right away pretty much you know it's it's one of those things where you'll get something that they estimate is going to be two weeks away and all of a sudden it's there two days later yeah and that that's what we're looking at here too this doesn't look like an iPhone situation where it's shipping straight from uh from China this is shipping from United States addresses and as a note and I know that this was covered last week on the Apple Insider podcast but these are eight and 10 core configurations because the 14 and 18 core processors aren't even shipping from Intel yet so we'll see those later in 2018 but I I'm excited to see what real world bench marks looks like uh I know Apple seeded a bunch of influencers with them already like MKBHD on YouTube and and a couple of other developers and things had them and they started to run them through their Paces but there's some interesting use cases for the machine for instance AVX 512 uh Vector processing makes a triumphant return to the Mac with the with the Xeon Processor in it which has has big implications for scientific calculations the 128 gabt of ram you can you can edit 8K in real time with filters it's an amazing machine it's not for me but it's an amazing machine well one of the things that's interesting to me is that we know that Apple has a strong focus on augmented reality and their demo at WWDC was about augmented reality and virtual reality and using the iMac Pro as a part of the tool set to create those kinds of realities those kinds of Worlds and that's been something that's been missing you know if you wanted to try and do that in in the past with a Mac were in trouble you had to get a 4-year-old Mac Pro and load it up with a new graphics card and hope that you had support it just kind of a nightmare and that that was sort of a territory that I think Apple seated for a while it that's an interesting point that you bring that up because over here sitting in my eju box I have a Vega 56 GPU and it maybe you can hear the fan noise and maybe you can't but it it's with that ability with the increased focus on that with the iMac Pro and legitimate egpu support which will roll out fully in the spring Apple has decided that they're going to actually jump into VR and AR a little bit more on the Mac side it's it's it's immature the drivers are still immature on the egpu I I I actually want to get my hands in iMac Pro and I'll have an opportunity to to visit a buddy who will have one next week so I can actually play with it for a few minutes but we'll see I like I said I'm excited about the possibilities of the machine but yeah it's just wow that's way out of my budget well it it is but are you doing AR professionally not at this time so yeah I'm fully aware that there's no need for me to have the absolute fastest Mac ever made there's there's just no call for it for for me yeah and and what does the retail price what are they asking these are $5,000 systems basically yep it's $4,999 for 32 G for 32 gig ram the 8 core machine running at 3 GHz which will speed up to 4.5 GHz on a single core process uh one tab of SSD uh which goes up to 3 gigabytes per second transfer and that's five grand but that'll in the future that will go up to 13,500 with a maxed out 18 core machine you know what's nice about this is we we've got a renewed focus on desktop machines that we haven't seen from Apple in a while this is this is a double-edged sword the the pros I'm going to put that in quotes because the definition of pro varies greatly who's a pro am I a pro because I use this to make money but I don't need an iMac Pro I mean everyone's got a different use case for these machines so now we have a machine where Apple has decided to throw heavy iron at it and the complaints have already started about it the it's too expensive it it doesn't have what I need it doesn't have an AMD processor it's not expandable okay well so those qu complaints are all answerable right expensive well yes yeah equipping with iron costs that that's just kind of how it works the AMD processor has not yet proved to be necessary you know you you know and I know that Apple has compiled OS 10 to work with AMD processors they're prepared in the instance that they need to jump ship but as far as they can determine there's simply been no need Intel's a good partner Intel's providing the parts they need for the most part uh not always addressing every user complaint like the MacBook Pros that people were a little bit unhappy with in terms of ram support upper limits M but for the large in large part Intel has done the job fine uh upgradeability it's an iMac the iMac has never been considered an upgradeable machine other than storage or Ram well there are other there are other factors to consider with that too people talk about why I need a machine with a CPU that's upgradeable Apple's never allowed that Apple has never allowed that it's it's always been a thirdparty option that people have sometimes done you know in the power PC days or the people taking the processors out of Mac Minis and putting in better processors but right it's it's never been an officially sanctioned thing for sure so and and to be clear the processor is socketed on the iMac Pro and so is the ram it's just there's no door to conveniently get at it I I understand where the average Apple Insider reader probably wants an upgradeable machine but we have to realize that we are not Apple's primary customer anymore and I've spoken about this on this podcast before and I'm not going to dive into it too deeply but the iMac Pro I think has got more to do with Apple's Enterprise customers than it has to do with apple Insider readers yeah if you're buying an iMac Pro for business to support an a function and a job you're going to buy it fully conf figured and the the days of having to have you know you learn how to open the ram door and upgrade the RAM or to have an IT person come around and do it aren't necessarily always going to be there yes it's it's kind of annoying if you think you're just going to buy RAM on the cheap and save some bucks but if you're trying to do this for work uh and you've determined that this is the machine that fills your need there's there's no reason to be fooling around for the $50 savings on a $5,000 machine right I'm I'm kind of a data hoarder and people who know me that doesn't come as a big surprise perish the thought Mike I have no idea right so as a result I have a lot of abstracted data from my days doing service and data with clients that I've supported and over time in in when I was doing a lot of service in the early part of the 21st century it's maybe one in a hundred customers would come in Who had who are seeking an upgrade or had done an upgrade or something like that maybe one in a 100 and I can't imagine that that number is higher now I mean it can't be because of Apple's desire to not not have you upgrade your machines so even in the Heyday of upgradeable machines with slotted G with with socketed G4 processors and pcie slots and and RAM and a door that folds down very very few people were actually upgrading their machines even then and you can say that maybe my numbers were't right because people could have done their own repairs and maybe not so I'll I'll you know what I'll quadruple that number let's say one and 25 it's that still wasn't a bread and butter job that's not where made your money right that's that's not upgrading is a big thing for Apple Insider readers and I get that I completely understand that but we are not the majority not by a long shot I mean it's how people like other world computing built their business off of it right but right I mean I dig upgrading don't get me wrong I you know I'm kicking a a a a 51 Mac Pro Tower down here that I've done Unholy things to it but it's that day is over the the day is done like it or not the day is done and it's not just Apple that's doing this it's it's if you look at machines across the board there are very very few upgradeable machines actually being sold anymore so and that's okay yep it's okay that's all right well it's got to be we don't have a choice it's got to be and and frankly with the Mac Pro that Apple confirmed in the press release announcing that the Mac the iMac Pro is shipping they still didn't say it was coming out in 2018 they said that they were working on it when they when they talked about it in April they said that it wasn't this year yeah so there's that for sure doesn't mean 2017 but it also doesn't mean 2018 you know the old rule for when something was shipping and they would say they would announce it a keynote and it will be shipping by the end of the summer and you might get it the end of September right it was the very last opportunity for someone to say well maybe that was actually the end of summer right and it wasn't that it was late it was just that it was pushed to the very last moment and and so I'm not fussed about that we'll get them when we get them and hopefully they'll fill someone's need at that time we expect that they probably will yeah yeah and I think at some point we have to have a conversation about what modular Mac Pro means yes we still have no good idea what that actually means and you could say that your MacBook Pro with an egpu well that's that's somewhat modular isn't it well yeah I mean that fits in the definition of modular is that what they mean not necessarily I'm concerned that Apple Insider readers have this vision of Apple restoring the xmat concept anyone remember that oh dear God where you have a mini tower and you have PCI slots so you can swap in components heart's content I don't think that's what we're going to get at all so we'll see yeah we we got something to figure out and look forward to here don't yep we sure do speaking of things that we need to talk about so for ages and ages and ages there have been going back to I want to say iOS 4 iOS 4 was a great example of this where when you updated your iPhone your iPhone felt slower and especially with the iOS 4 transition from your your I your iPhone 3 or 3GS right the iPhone 3 didn't get some of the features that iOS enabled on other devices like the iPhone 4 at that time you know multitasking wasn't available on an iPhone 3 even though you were running the same OS and so people had this concept in mind that said that apple is making my phone worse when I update the OS on it that that apple is depriving me of features that other people get which was true or that apple is intentionally slowing down my phone and the the rest of that sentence usually reads something like apple was intentionally slowing down my phone in order to push me to upgrade yeah well unsurprisingly Victor I have thoughts about this well I I know that you do I I would say I'm GNA get my word in edgewise first go ahead that turns out and and actually I was surprised the first half of that sentence that apple is intentionally slowing down my phone we've always said that was false for years people have said that and and we've always said that this is not true apple is not intentionally slowing down your phone when you upgrade the OS and it turns out we weren't right we were wrong apple is it comes hold on hold on hold on this is the problem this is why this is a story but this is this is a story that I think has the potential to do a lot of damage to Apple's reputation because for years we've said apple is not slowing down your phones when you upgrade your OS and it turns out that that yes they are but not to force you to upgrade it's not a conspiracy to make you throw out your phone and go buy a new one that that what we found is that apple is slowing down older iPhones that have failing batteries have aging batteries and that this is to solve a problem that we saw with the iPhone 6 where your battery would get down to about 20% and then the phone would shut off so now I'm going to go ahead and let you take over Mike I've taken up enough of your time go for it you've taken up my time okay yeah yeah I give you some time well look here's the situation apple is not slowing down older phones that have perfectly functioning batteries that's the complete statement apple is still not and has never slowed down your phone to buy to get you to buy a new phone in fact while apple is slowing down your phone in a situation where the battery is been hammered with age or environmental conditions to prevent an under voltage condition which can actually damage your Hardware apple is reducing the clock speed of your phone during that time period of reduced voltage so it does not shut down on you until you plug it back in and charge it for a while so there are two choices here neither of them are great but they're they're physical realities that Apple has all the money in the world and there's not much they can do you mean I have to obey the laws of physics Mike I doesn't that terrible it's just awful that we have to do that anyway physics so we've got one condition where low voltage condition Okay the phone's going to shut down done boom no more phone sorry go go home and plug it in and then you'll be fine in an hour or the other situation where okay you can't play beul quite as fast as you used to but you still have the phone your phone still functions where the big flaw is here and the issue that I have with this here and the issue that I'm really upset with apple about on this is disclosure about this with the 10.2.1 upgrade that's when all this this battery clocking came in and apple said that they fixed the the sh the unexpected shutdown problem they didn't talk about when they didn't talk about how they didn't talk about possibilities they didn't talk about how you could fix the problem if you experien this slowdown all the time they didn't acknowledge that there's a Slowdown at all they just said they fixed the problem yeah there there was never any acknowledgement that there were slowing anything down they simply said that there was a problem where a phones that had older batteries would would shut down at 20% or 30% and if you saw that you know you could go bring it into the Apple store and then they issued to 10.2.1 and said that they've solved this issue what yeah and and that's great and it's it's fantastic they issue the patch CU other vendors like yeah your phone's shutting down tough crap right unex shut down is not a great experience I agree so I I what you'd wished for here was some acknowledgement of a few things right let me let me guess and you tell me if I guessed it right y go so first you would have liked acknowledgement that they were actually slowing down the processor yep you would have liked them to explain that it was related to battery yep and I'm guessing you would have also liked some notification that there was an issue with the battery probably yeah somewhere in the in I don't know notification center as opposed to NE necessarily bearing it in settings battery I think it needs yeah I think it need to be a fullon modal stop what you're doing we've detected a problem with your battery and here's what we've done click here for more information and it will take you to an Apple support page explaining the situation in more detail now I'm not talking molar calculations about cathodes and anodes and chemical depletion and filament formation or any of that crap well you you can one of the things that happens is when you take your phone into apple and you say to the genius I think my battery's getting old they can plug in and get diagnostic logs of what your battery charge cycle looks like and they can say you know your battery is simply not holding as much charge as it did when it was new and here's what the drop off looks like and they'll never really show you this chart they'll kind of turn it away and shield your eyes from it but I've seen it it exists and and they know that when your battery's gone through a certain number of Cycles which is Char full charged depleted full charged depleted that it has an aging effect on the battery over time batteries don't hold as much energy so when it reaches that point and the Mac does this too the Mac will say service battery soon or or battery needs service right it'll tell you that you have an issue well the Mac is way more transparent about this because it's up on your menu bar yeah so you know there are some people that would have liked to have a toggle option that said no don't do this I'd prefer to have the unexpected shutdowns let me have full power yeah no that that's the the undervoltage condition can actually damage iPhone Hardware so that's not that in no way is that ex that's a great wish list idea that's not reality the the the other thing is like you say a modal interaction that says before you go forward here's what's happened we detected this problem your battery is this old with this many cycles on it it's just not going to work well go and change your battery service your battery or expect that you're kind going to have a slower phone to accommodate it yeah I mean some of this is on the Genius Bar too The Genius Bar very much operates on scripts Apple Services always operated on scripts and back in the day you would have a problem flowchart where you would say okay you've got this problem replace this part then replace this part replace this part and replace this part until you figure out the problem is and you really didn't have a lot of leeway on that well Apple Stores and especially the Apple Geniuses had early on up until the hiring of John Broward from Dixons you remember that guy yeah I do I and I know where you're going with this they had a lot more latitude in terms of what they could do for a consumer in their store uh for service before John Broward was hired after his hiring yeah things became a lot more stringent the script got even harder yeah yeah I think the problem is twofold I think that Apple's a victim of its own success in that regard I I think that they used to have higher standards for geniuses than they have now they used to take the Geniuses and fly them out to California for I think it was six weeks of training they don't do that anymore I I I think that there's a combination of factors that have led to this point but there is apple has a reputation for arrogance and Apple retail has a reputation for arrogance too and when you come into the Genius Bar and say look this is my problem you know I think I've got a problem with this and I understand where they have to run through everything that they have to run through in accordance with their script but they they don't pay a whole lot of attention to users well and part of the problem is also that when when you're the customer facing them in the Genius Bar mic they have a real problem because you know stuff you have know used scurry and when when Tyson's was one of the four Apple Stores and I had something really recalcitrant that I had to bring in and get fixed they they would literally Scurry yeah because no one wants to deal with Mike Worley who's got a problem that can't solve on his own because he knows stuff about what's actually wrong with it if if it's you know someone who doesn't have that knowledge going in front of them they can go ahead and run their script and they'll figure it out and they'll be fine but when you actually know what you're doing so I walk in with my phone right I've gone in with my phone under Apple Care a couple of times and said here's the problem and by the way I've already erased and started it fresh without restoring so it's a brand new phone and I'm still experiencing the problem and here's me demonstrating the problem and they go you know what you know exactly what you're doing you're going to do the same things we were going to make you do in stand here for 40 minutes restoring your phone let's just go get the back oh great that's that's fantastic I think maybe it's just the volume of my stores here is the problem then so so kudos to your Apple Store but you know less less positive around here but you know it's it's the freaking Thunderdome in the app BR crab tree volume all is on the spot they're good good but anyway back to the original Point circling back to the original point this is a communication utter failure on Apple's part this is Apple's failure to communicate the problem to Geniuses to have them deal the situation in a more sane fashion this is failure Val to communicate to users that okay look your your battery is toast we're sorry it's the way it goes it's a chemical process you just kind of got to deal with it or you can bring in the phone for 79 bucks and get a new battery and it's a failure of communicating with venues like CNN and apple Insider and everybody else to say look here is the situation we shouldn't have had to get a statement out of the blue yesterday saying well this is our response and this is this is several days several days after Reddit and geekbench published about this well I had a friend who two months ago had an iPhone 6 with the battery expanding it had actually literally pushed the screen right off of the uh the case on his iPhone and it was bulging I said listen that's not safe it's not good to have a bulging battery go into the store and I made the appointment for him right there on my phone and sent him into the store and he went into the store and he said they they charged me 80 bucks and I said that's fine what they what happened well they changed the battery they changed the phone and it's so much faster oh my God it's so much faster he had no idea and I said well that's interesting that the phone is now faster with a fresh battery he said yeah really is it's great I was I was so mad at iOS 11 and now he's happy yeah and and I and I know Apple Insider listeners and readers understand this but if you see your friends and they've got a slightly slightly swollen screen send them to the Apple Store and get it fixed it doesn't matter that the phone still works it's just going to get worse it's not going to get better and this was not slightly this was this was literally quite it had pushed the screen off of the case of the phone and you could see the bulging battery it was bad well that's another physical reality when when the battery has in certain failure conditions the battery will off gas and and that's what caused the Note 7 flammability is this off gasing so and and the puncture of the and the puncture of the really resilient membrane outside the battery so batteries are are chemical processes batteries are physical processes and frankly they need to be respected and what Apple has done to respect that is you're storing a lot of kinetic energy that energy has to go somewhere yeah this is I mean Apple sin is not that they did this apple sin is not telling anyone that they did this yeah this is the the poor communication is really what the problem is here and the poor communication my fear is what's going to haunt Apple for years to come and and because I I think of that because I know people that have avoided buying music from iTunes for years because they were worried that iTunes had DRM and that they would only buy from the Amazon music store and this is the year 2017 and I tried to explain that in 2009 Apple stopped putting DRM on anything and they went ahead and made all of the purchases that people made DRM free this is taken care of years ago oh no no I'm still not buying anything from Apple I can't trust that it won't have DRM end Gadget end gadget's headline about this is Apple confirms that is slowing down older devices and that's what people are going to remember and they're going to remember that for years and years to come I mean that that makes lots of clicks no lie that's that makes lots of clicks but it's not accurate it is not an accurate headline it is it is a true headline but it is not an accurate headline and that's and CNN has done the same thing and fox has done the same thing and everybody's done the same thing and now local news stations this morning NBC 4 here in DC did well Apple's confirmed that if you have an older phone it's slowing you down come on and and yeah yeah those guys are IR responsible but I would say that Apple has shot themselves in the foot this is this is those guys are irresponsible but so was Apple yep the root of the matter is Apple not communicating this well and as far as the forcing you to buy a new phone you know what it's going to force you to buy a new phone your phone shutting down at random you know it's not going to force you to buy a new phone as much your phone's slowing down on you so you know you can scream to high heaven for whatever conspiracy theory you may have or whatever hate or love you have for Apple that this is or is not but the truth matter is this is in a bad situation this is the best of the choices well the best of the choices would have been telling people what they were doing the best choices for physics was to slow it down and not hurt the rest of the device and allow you to keep using it for a little longer but but honestly yeah they they couldn't have popped up a dialogue they couldn't have put something on the screen really yeah that would have solved it that they monitor their battery enough if you can if you can slow down the processor on your phone you can tell the user it's it's it's that simple there there are no words there really are no words this well I don't know I think we just went through about 2,000 of them yeah so I mean there there are words but this is this is a damage control situation for Apple it's not a great situation you know like I said if you're listening this podcast you you either like apple or you hate it whichever but you're not in that neutral middle part this just who we get for listeners and and look at the situation and look at it objectively and realize that yeah it's a screw up but boy it could have been a whole lot worse I I want a better Apple I want an apple that strives to do a little harder and this this is a big Miss yeah I do too I mean there there's a lot of things that I don't like apple like I said before Apple's a victim of its own success I I wrote an article about a week and a half ago about Apple's quality assurance and and you know it's possibly the most mik article in the history of mik articles that I you know I said that Apple needed a a quality insurance system similar to what the Navy crash instituted no that's a terrible choice of words but what the Navy instit sued when it lost a submarine because of material failure in the early' 60s I it's it it has to be that dramatic because of the sheer number of people that are using the devices and using the software and rely on it for security and safety from a day-to-day basis and this is related this is a choice Apple made somewhere on the corporate level that maybe isn't the best choice for consumers I agree I I so so agree I'm gonna shift gears yep I'm gonna go ahead and put our interview with dried right here in the middle sweet I'll go get a coffee go get a coffee I'm not going to do it right this second but you get a coffee and we'll be right back welcome to this segment of the Apple Insider podcast I'm Victor and I'm here with Yosi hey so Yosi you are the founder of dried yeah that's right and uh the domain is dried. that's d r d doio now I I started speaking with you a year ago about uh a dashboard camera project that you were working on and at at that time I was doing crazy things like taking a Raspberry Pi and putting a camera on it and then running your app on the iPhone so why don't you tell me a little bit about what's changed since then sure so uh we started um two years ago DED as a company started two years ago uh with the bigger vision of uh shedding lights on on road events and we just thought how can we take uh events that happen on the road and today uh just um didn't get anywhere and make them uh visible and actionable so um we've developed um an operation system for uh for dash cams uh we call it dried OS um and basically this OS allows um you or any other maker to take a Raspberry Pi and just uh with um very limited uh amount of work to put it on your windshield and have a fully functional um dash cam uh so you were one of the first uh to actually try this um uh so basically the experience uh was is very slick you you just have an app uh the app connects with Wii to the dash cam and you can just see all the video clips that the dash cam uh have taken um we've also built a beautiful case uh to wrap uh to wrap this uh Raspberry Pi and make it easy to mount on the windshield um and now we're basically announcing uh dried zero which is our second generation uh um of dash cam um so basically this takes all of the good good things we learned uh from the first uh generation and basically make it way way smaller so this is why we call it dried zero obviously it's based on the Raspberry Pi zero um and the the size of this is just like the world's smallest dash cam um obviously it has all of the connected features um we've been developing for the past two years so what I'm looking at on the Wind screen here in this car that we're sitting in is a a 3D printed cover with uh mounting for the camera it it looks like a professional piece it looks like something that could go into production tomorrow yeah uh so dry zero uh is ready to go where um we've buil build it um um to a to a deeper um level than the the first generation we've learned a lot on on how to actually build manufacture uh devices um this is something we didn't know how to do uh last time we actually sell the dev kits uh on the website uh right now so uh if you can't wait to our Kickstarter to be launched um by the way it's going to be on uh February of 2018 um you can go ahead and just buy a DA kit online and we'll send you one of this cool 3D printed models cool and so you've got the the OS you've got the enclosure and camera that wrap around the Pi Z is the computing power Y and you've got the app and the cloud infrastructure that's right so um we believe that um building a connected dash cam is all about um the ecosystem so um you can have an amazing app but if your camera uh don't have the ability to to share with a click of a button you can even miss the point and if you already share something and it just goes nowhere and you need to share you know uh three 100 megabyte of a file to your friends with WhatsApp uh then you missed missed the point as well and we believe that the people should be um they they should want to share and the way uh we want to encourage them to share is by basically building a community around these videos so if you share something and put it on YouTube and no one sees that um it's kind of takes a fun out of sharing videos uh we want we want some kind of continuity so after you share the video something should happen and currently what we offering is basically the community can see these videos discuss them and um hopefully we'll we will introduce uh some many interesting uh Partnerships with local police forces or local community managers uh to see how we can uh improve um basically how people drive in their uh in their area right so let's say 99% of the people drive perfectly 99% of the time yeah except in Russia those dash cam videos are any evidence that's right um so this is just to to you know when you're talking about forwarding videos onto police or making them available to insurance companies it's for that 1% of 1% of the time that that someone behaves badly kind of thing sure yeah I think um I strongly believe and the data shows it that most of the drivers like the the vast majority of drivers are good drivers and um they don't necessarily um know what to do with bread drivers and obviously police force can uh arrest or just we as a society don't have the tools to stop these kind of behaviors for for this 1% who who drives recklessly and I believe that the only way we can do it is by just leveraging the enormous technology jump that we have we had in recent years um you know to build something like this five 10 years ago it was just um unrealistic um um and I think today with a with with like putting dash cams Wi-Fi dash cams on on people cars just asking them nicely to share it um I think um not not necessarily we don't want put people in jail that's not our mission we just want people to be aware that if you do something bad if you drive um like a criminal someone will uh might film you so I I I I want to tell you a quick story about an experiment that was conducted in Israel um uh the the police took um a road called a bloody road that has 60 casualties per month uh fatalities per month and they put a police car every mile uh along this route for a week and the number of fatalities has dropped in 60% so like you need to understand that's actually life being saved um that's not no gimmick and no uh PR stunt people actually got to be with their family that evening in of being dead so we know that if we put a police car in every corner um we will stop this kind of a behavior but we just can't do this and hopefully with dried this Vision becomes a reality and interesting you remind me of something that that we did back where I live which is the the police realized that they couldn't put a police car everywhere that they needed to for for situations like that so what they did was they contacted the people that make props for Hollywood movies mhm and they made fake police cars and they parked fake police cars that were props out in the and I'm sure it helps it it helps yeah for example you can see U tricks like that people just um the the the government puts lights green like blue and red just to scare you off and people immediately take their every H the brakes yeah yeah so by the way that that the first generation of dried was white so what what we thought is by putting it white uh people will see it in the rear view mirror and know okay this guy the back has a dried I'll drive better uh which didn't work out um but but basically I think the the notion that someone might film you and upload it to a place that will eventually you don't want it to to get there uh will do the trick so how do people get a a dried and there are a lot of people working on different things in the car and where does dried fit within the car within all these other things working within the car yeah so basically we build dried as an open Source uh project so our goal is uh not only to uh sell dried with our software but to uh make other manufacturers Implement our software in their uh dash cams and by doing that basically we're opening um a door for developers to integrate with dri OS regarding of what Hardware um the the dash cam is running on so basically for example if you have a kind of um um reverse um monitor uh it will it it can just get integrated into dried uh dried OS uh and then basically just improve the quality of of the product or any other kind of uh car Gadget that currently um will fail as a standalone project but product but if it will be able to connect to something with more processing power um you know some kind of centralized uh interface for for um for use uh I think this will be a game changer in the car how is dy different yeah so basically you have a lot of dash cams today on the market um some looks better some worse some cheap some expensive um but I think the the what we we need to the way we need to see dried is basically a connected dash cam and um to be a truly connected dash cam we believe that the the the essence here is how do you take the video that the camera taken uh and share it with your friends so basically this is this is what we believe um connected dashcam should do and uh the dash cam is in today Market other than being um some have apps that you can just um log into the dash cam and see the videos but it they weren't designed um specifically to share they just want to sell you dash cam give you a way an easy way to access it uh and that's it if you think about why why all most of the the dash cams has screens it because they just want to give you an AI to to deal with it h to to change the settings and and all of other options to see videos uh if you think about it you don't need screen uh in your dash cam it just completely useless but they do it because they well you need to change the settings you need to do it and it's very weird and bizarre way to build a product but that's reality um other than that we we think that a dash cam should be seamless and this is how we've developed DED zero we basically try to design it and make it look invisible um and I think if you just compare it with other dash cams on the market today you'll see a big and substantial difference on basically um you you get something like a GoPro on on these cameras uh and on the contrary on D zero you just have a super small uh package and all you see is the button uh that you're supposed to press so basically um smaller and connected that's that's the two main features okay what happens when the worst happens what what what is the process when someone hits your car yeah so I think maybe we can even take a step back you just imagine you're driving with your family your kids are on the back and suddenly someone just cuts you on road almost kill everyone and you just you you you know until today the only technology could use is just to honk maybe curse maybe not cuz your kids are are the back but uh you didn't really have any anything to do uh but imagine a world that you do have a drw ID installed all you need to do is just Reach Out press the button when you press the button uh a lot of things happen basically um the device notifies your phone that an event has occurred the camera saves the date um that the event is occurred and transfer the video of this event to your mobile phone so you can choose either you want to share it immediately to the dried cloud and then share it with the community share it with your friends later on whatever you want or you can just um wait uh and upload it when you're at home on Wi-Fi so basically you have the control the most important thing is the video is never lost so the the second you press on the button the video is is there it will not get deleted it's transferred to your phone uh when it can and basically you have the power uh to and and control of who sees this video when it gets uploaded what metad data you want to include you want to include GPS you don't want to include GPS um another cool feature is you can just post it as Anonymous so for example if you want to um upload a video of a bad driver and don't want him to I don't know come to your house see you or you just don't want to feel bad about it uh you can just toggle the anonymous um switch and just no one will know will never will ever know it was you and this is by the way a feature we we believe that um a lot of people will use because um people are okay with the the the idea of sharing reckless drivers it will be just best if it weren't them who share it so yeah so so the idea of making it Anonymous will increase the amount of people who are willing to share right right and I think eventually people will lose it like if you think that the internet back in the days were um people were using ls's and basically usernames and no one will use their real real face or real picture and eventually Facebook came and then all the social media platforms and you you use your name today on online wherever you go and I think this will this is what happened with dve first people will be afraid when uh eventually they'll they'll see that their videos gets popular and uh people are discussing of uh some kind of a I I I don't want to be too um um too big and just say that we will change the way people drive in the world um I certainly hope so but I think it's a process but I do think we will give people uh the option to do something about it and I think this is um this is an interesting point because today um even if you have a dash cam and just to take this event and you know you need to take your SD card connect it to your computer so Troublesome um and so you just give up eventually and I think that if you give people an option you give them um an option to help Str help the struggle and help um get all these drivers off the road I think they will use it uh I again I we already have uh a ton of users who use it and we see how uh the impulse button that's the button you click to share is increased um conversion and people upload much more videos uh having this button um so I think um like giving people the choice giving people the the option will make uh will make uh will make this uh this you know subject a reality so who should buy one of these yeah so um basically we've buil dried uh as an open platform but it's not necessarily meant for makers makers will find it very familiar because we use a Raspberry Pi as uh the the processing power for the unit along with other electronics but you don't necessarily have to be a maker in order to use dried uh we're very very focused on UI um and basically the experience is so slick and so seamless um and you will not need to um SSH into the device just to take a picture that's not our goal but if you are a maker uh and you love making things on your own um I encourage you to go ahead and Dy IO and just uh download the software right now and use it on your Raspberry Pi uh if you like it just go ahead and buy a kit and put it in your car right what I'm thinking about is is so is this something that I should get from my wife in her car is is this something that we should put in my mother-in-law's car or my father-in-law's car I'll yeah I'll I'll tell you a a quick quick story my wife um got her driver license 4 months ago true story um I'm not that young but uh well she she she was afraid of it you live in a city where you don't need to drive and there's no place to park anyway uh yeah you're right so um so I she was user number one I put a drive zero in her uh in her car three days after she came back home so excited she someone almost killed me checked out this video uh and obviously she's not the most techy guy techy person uh in the world and uh she found what she can do with it um and I think your wife or mother law or or any other family member um will find this product useful uh first and foremost even without the impulse button I think a dash cam is a necessary um thing to have I mean in Russia it's like 100% of people have dash cams for other reasons um in the states it's less popular uh and I think that's about that's about to change that has to change because um even though um insurance is great and you don't have corrupt policemen to to um protect you from I think um this is just a protection you need to prove when you're not at fault and uh this is something most Americans don't have today and I hope uh they will have uh in the future so anyone should have dried um no matter if you're tacky or not techy no matter if you use the impulse button or not and my advice to you is buy two because dried will work both on the windshield and uh on the r uh windshield as well so uh they will just sync uh together and you will just get a more complete view of the road and and uh of the next of of the accident fantastic well thank you so our listeners should go to drive. yeah if you're interested in buying a kit you can go to drive iio you have a store button there link and just you can order online right now if you're wanted to wait uh to the final product uh we're launching a Kickstarter on February 18 so just go to our website subscribe to our mailing list we will let we will let you know uh when we're out um and for the makers uh we're encourage you to go to dry. iocs and um just download the dri OS and use it with your Raspberry Pi today fantastic thank you so much Yosi I really appreciate it thank you for having me so this is something that's that's interesting and it's interesting because this is something we've seen happen again and again throughout the history of of desktop operating systems a little bit and we've seen it with the ideas so so first of all I want to go back in history and I want to cite BOS BOS was a thing that was around in in 96 97 98 99 kind of time frame and BOS got purchased by uh by Palm essentially by 3com and then 3om sold off the software assets to a company called access and there was for a time a mobile OS a mobile phone OS powered by BOS that would have given us complete full multitasking uh independent multitasking invent processing the whole thing in a phone touchcreen about two and a half three years before iPhone existed and it was brilliant and it got killed by access but the idea was that you had a desktop operating system and a mobile operating system based off the same core that could run some of the same applications and we almost got it it almost existed and then and then we had Windows 7 no Windows 8 Windows 10 and Windows 8 and Windows 10 allowed people to compile applications and just as a checkbox make it for the desktop and for mobile at the same time and now we have rumored Apple's project marzipan and marzipan if that code name is at all correct is a way to allow iOS apps to run on the Mac it is that that is an accurate statement but I think I think that the original source of the story Mark Gman Bloomberg I think he he is misinterpreting the intent of the project I I think if I think that Apple's got Mac OS and iOS ready to go on toasters I I think that they've got compilations for every possible microarchitecture that they could get their hands on and this is an architectural thing and Apple has started doing this kind of thing and migrating to a common code base and they started doing with xcode I mean you think that Apple out of the benevolence of their heart told developers to start using xcode about a decade ago or or recently said you know encouraging Swift or or encouraging Swift I mean this is this is a convergence to a common code base and they have always said that iOS is is a branch of of of at the time Mac OS 10 now it's Mac OS but whatever you know a branding and repetition in branding is a is a story for another day right so German's susp German's proposition here is that apple is going to do this to blur the lines between them and increase software offerings on Mac yeah I don't think that's it at all we take issue with that as the purpose that's not the purpose I don't think that's it at all so what what I think this is I think this is a common code base I think this is to say look at our new Macbook with the a whatever series processor congratulations it's Mac OS you can run all your old apps I don't think this has anything to do with building up the Mac Mac OS app store which is you know admitt kind of sad I I think this has everything to do with Apple's future in two or three or four years well we've always talked about how the the future of computing as as Apple has seen it and as they've talked about it has been that the iPad is the computer that the iPhone is the computer that you use a Mac when you need to do something heavy duty and you know in every kind of of screenshot that they use in the retail stores for example they always use full screen just like you'd see if you were on an iPad and so this is again more blurring the lines and more making things more uh similar across the lines than different yeah I mean there were a lot to do a lot was made of the of the a of the a11 of the a11 bionic processors benchmarks when they came out how they're nearly as fast as a MacBook Pro or faster than a MacBook Pro but benchmarks never ever tell the whole story The Aeries processor you can't really the architecture isn't really designed to take two a11 processors and have them operate in tandem so as far as a multicore beast like the iMac Pro or even the 15-inch macro well they are multicore beasts inside the a six and the two going on there yeah by themselves but they they won't really coordinate because of the architecture they won't really coordinate with another A1 in the same Hardware right so yeah well I agree with your assessment that they are multi-core beasts by themselves they're not going to be multiple processors scattered all over a machine at least with the current architecture that may change but with the current architecture that's not really that possible so I agree people need trucks I like having a truck but other people don't need trucks like the iPad gave the internet back to the senior citizens in my family mhm as opposed to sitting at their Packard Bell that they had in 90 whatever yeah their Gateway 2000 this is yeah this is while this is a an existing move if the if the report is accurate and I have no reason to believe that it's not given that Apple has always had things going on on other processors this is this is a move toward the future of a converged future where your software is interchangeable on a certain platform that Apple deems it so yeah I don't think this is going to me me that a Mac software with the flip of a switch will work on iOS and I don't think this is going to mean that iOS software with the flip of a switch is going to work on Mac OS and like I said I don't think this has anything to do with the renovation of the Mac App Store this is the future this is a bridge of the future see I I kind of thought about it like this if people use storyboards and xcode then they can make things that work for iPhone and iPad and if you make another storyboard you can work for Mac OS potentially right you know it's it's just a matter of making your app compatible across all the different deliverable platforms oh yeah I'm not saying that that's not possible with this because I mean if the if the reports are accurate it it clearly is it's just not the end game it's not it's not the whole story no you know I keep looking at at development on iPad and thinking about what that's like you know we have Swift playgrounds what's it take to get to an xcode on iPad what's it take to be able to you know compile applications directly on an iOS device and then distribute them to the store it takes Apple's willingness right but I don't think that f is that far away well I don't it could be tomorrow if Apple wanted it to be I think I just don't think right now Apple wants that future today people say that Apple they don't plan well but I don't think that's the case at all I I think that Apple has a 10-year plan and I think that of the beats that they've wanted to hit for the last 15 years I think they've hit them all the you know various Hardware platforms begat other Hardware platforms which begat software platforms which begat services and and and that's where we're at right now but there is there always has to be something in the future and apple apple can't wait on Intel Apple Intel hasn't hit their hasn't hit their Milestones not by a long shot and and the notion that an A series processor like the a11 bionic could be used in a 12-in Macbook seems entirely possible sure I I think that the user base will Revolt if they can't use their Mac software on a Mac branded machine and I don't think the I I don't think the iPad heavy users will be that excited about an iPad with a mandatory attached keyboard okay but hold up cuz I want to I want to explore this for 10 seconds sure goad your your uh the elderly folks in your family mhm have moved away from the need for a keyboard and have have gone iPad only as their computer yep the kids in my family one of them has access to a Macbook and uses it for a couple of things that work better in the browser than they do on the iPad um sure Rosetta Stone online is is one example of that okay but for the most part they are they are phone and I and iPad only their iOS only yeah and so one proposition is that you know the you use the Computing environment that you grow up with and what that environment becomes you know this used to be thing in schools right if you had uh Microsoft Office on every machine in school the kids all used office and then they all went to work and used office at work kind of thing and so so there's a whole generation of kids growing up using mobile mobile devices and iPads and that's what the future looks like of computing for them I don't disagree so this this future where Apple moves things to mobile processors and some devices have keyboards built into them and some don't but they all work similarly in software is is how they view this progression of computing and Computing future which is why I think that marzipan is the bridge to that future yeah what's interesting about it is that historically when we see a leak like this that it becomes reality it ships Within about two to four years yeah I tend to agree on that I mean the the first inklings that Apple was considering Intel and Intel shift start submerge submerge surface around 2004 and it wasn't until 2006 that it actually happened but even before then next step was available with an Intel build on the wall OS 10 beta stuff was available for Intel well before that I mean you couldn't run betas on Intel but uh I ran Darwin I thought it was 2005 that's when the betas for 2005 with the the iMac change over cuz that was the uh the the Mac World in 2006 no 2005 it was 2005 was it 200 the shift in 2006 that's right but Mac World 2005 when they announced the MacBook Pro and the iMac yep when they announced the shift that's right yeah but but back in 2001 I had Darwin running without the uh the os10 interface but the underlying core of os 10 running on Intel yeah the yeah with the next step core sure it's yeah I mean the writing was on the wall clearly before the show I mean so the the the com the the prevailing wisdom that it was a big surprise by Apple when they rolled out the Intel shift it really wasn't a huge surprise well and the power PC shift didn't tell as well the Rosetta shift right that that we heard about Rosetta for a while before that and the same is true of of mobile devices so for years we wrote about the rumored tablet that Apple's making and here I up on cider we covered that for years going back to like 2003 2005 and it wasn't until 2009 we saw the phone and what had happened was that they'd been working on the tablet all along and then shifted gears to make it a phone and then only came back and made the iPad later in 2010 but right and this goes back to my bat bat bat like something from the Bible the silmer I mean you know that's what I'm saying is that timing wise when we hear about something and publish it you can expect to see it as reality in about two to four years yeah some version of it an iteration of of the leak that we had yeah come comes down a little bit further down the road yeah this isn't a tomorrow technology Bloomberg uh Bloomberg said that they expect something at wwc and maybe it will and maybe it won't I don't know but the developers do have to have a heads up on an architecture shift for there not to be mass chaos well so what happens is that that you have to do something right and so you can do a surprise announcement but if you're going to do a surprise announcement you have to have seated it among a specific set of developers that you can say by the way we've got Adobe on board we've got Microsoft on board we've got these people on board and their stuff already works on it and they'll demonstrate it I mean can you ever actually say you have Adobe on board before the shifts Adobe is always taken forever to properly shift over to your architecture they showed Adobe running on OS 10 in 2001 when they announced the beta yeah ready to ship and running are not necessarily the same thing but saying they're on board you can that's a fact you can do that's a fact uh the other thing that you can do besides having a a small cadra of companies on board in the firstand when you launch is to also lay forth here's how the migration pattern works and so you know besides having Coco for OS 10 they also had carbon that allowed people to bring their older apps easily um with power PC to Intel shift we had Rosetta so that it wasn't that hard to translate and make your apps run anyway well yeah the point being is Apple this is not the first time Apple has done this if if this is accurate this is the fourth we had 68k to power PC we had the we had power PC to Intel we had the code the code Divergence between Mac OS and iOS and here we go again now we have so uh os9 no system 9 OS 9 to OS 10 um oh yeah that yeah that was a huge one too power I'm counting five yeah that wasn't a that wasn't a hardware shift you're right but yeah that's a good shift too that was a painful time yeah get so my I was Thinking of U this one company and I blanked on their name the cor Cork Express Cork Express was a nightmare at that time you remember that yeah yeah I do it's yeah I was working I was working support at a at a specialist at the time and yeah you're right that was that was not right so between os9 and Os 10 Cork Express did two things one they cut off all of their us and Western World development and shipped it all to India which would have been fine they also tried to convert it all to Java which would have been fine at the same time as they tried to move from os9 to OS 10 which would have been fine if they did any one of these things singly but trying to do all of them in combination was a nightmare and it's it's actually honestly quite impressive that they stayed in business at all and with any with any shift with any major architectural shift be it Hardware or software there are going to be horror stories there are always Horror Stories the I'm I'm trying to it was a long time from the power from the uh Power PC the shift to power PC but there's just some just on the tip of my tongue oh yeah most of the control panels broke most of the cdvs broke most of the extensions broke the you know device drivers broke everywhere just about every device driver broke it was a miracle that they were able to make the power PC transition at all it really was because first of all the company had no money at that time they had enough money to live for three months that's that's how much they had Apple was down to being able to pay salaries for three months they had jobs coming in in what mid 97 saying we have to make this transition to power PC and dealing with people who who Wen motivated trying do it they they hacked the thing together they got it running and that was enough to try and get it out the door but every part back then in Apple's history was a leap of faith at trying to just stay alive yeah that that's not what this is I mean is an architectural change just the same and you can you can you can feel the Winds of Change coming and apple Insider listeners and readers have have felt the change coming too and there are some pretty strong opinions about it and yeah let's continue the conversation but let's not assume that we have any kind of sway and what Apple's going to do about it uh no yeah our only sway is whether or not we buy the devices right or in the case of the Mac App Store whether or not we even use it there you go speaking of software though Apple has issued public betas of iOS 11.2.5 and tvos 11.2.5 these are the second betas uh these are the public betas that follow on the heels of the developer seeds and so you know anyone in Apple's public beta software program can go ahead and get them with the correct certificate the thing that I'm unclear on there doesn't seem to be any new features uncovered so this this seems to be probably releases focused on security and maintenance yeah I'm a little puzzled by the 0 five on that it's it's it's different than what Apple's normally done I'm running a couple of the betas right now I've got it on I've got it on one of my Macs here and I'm not really seeing any problems I'm seeing some more refinements on the egpu thing I've got it on the on the on the Apple TV I'm not seeing anything there I'm not seeing any imminent shift toward airpl 2 which has got to happen sooner rather than later I'd think at this point but maybe that's the holdup for the airpod for the homepod I don't know it's there there's a lot going on that could be happening but doesn't seem to be happening so I I think we're going to have to see as this beta marches on what gets add it or doesn't yeah now speaking about Apple TV TV OS so first of all Apple TV was back on Amazon this is of course no big surprise because we were told that that basically Apple TV be back at am Amazon no we were told that Apple TV was kicked out of Amazon because it didn't support the Amazon Prime Instant Video and customer confusion Amazon said which is the biggest well it was customer confus their own creation yeah they did it they're they're the ones responsible for their app on the Apple TV and they just chose not to do it two years ago so and now it's back and so rightfully so the Apple TV was allowed to sell amagon again and it came back and you know that it came back is nice people were watching to see when it would come back we have the app but we still don't have it back on Amazon we have the app we still don't have back on Amazon all the tweets read the Apple TV 4K was back on Amazon and sold out within hours of launching yeah actually was 38 minutes wow did you time that yeah 38 minutes uh no I look through some some Wayback machine stuff and some other logs in 38 minutes amazing hang on a second I some just broke through my DN day which means it's a very small amount of people give me give me just one second okay we're good I can put it off for a few minutes so the Apple still has some retail availability of the 32 gigabyte model for same day pickup the 64 gigabyte model is just sold out you can't get one at Apple you can't get one at Amazon uh any new order that you place is going to ship four or five weeks after Christmas I I dig the Apple TV I don't see the point of the 64 gig one not least not right now the the the apps available for it are few and far between and there's no technical reason that you need the additional storage for media streaming so right now frankly get the 32 gig you you don't need the 64 gig get the 32 gig do the Direct TV promo for four months or whatever however you get one it it's there's no compelling reason for the 64 gig and while it's great that people are buying it I I'm just not Ser I I bought 64 gig models of the Apple TV fourth generation that is the one preceding the 4cade and MH I I have not used all the storage that's on them I thought that I would I thought for sure that there would be a compelling reason to do it that it would be games that it would be that it would be uh video downloaded to the device and stored locally for some occasions I did too yeah I did too they just never be reason yep and I you know I've been using it with the prime app and with the uh the the comparing it with the Amazon Prime Fire TV devices and and honestly I love it as a device I think Amazon has some work to do on their app of the one of the best things so this is it the I I I dislike Hulu's new app and I dislike the the Fire TV app but I'm glad that it's there and glad they're both there for the content and so the best thing is that on the Apple TV they use Apple's TV app which is also available on iPads iPhones and iOS devices everywhere so you can use the content you can access the content without having to be subject to Amazon's interface yeah and I agree I I think that's a great addition I would like them to ify the 51 audio situation sooner rather than later it makes no sense to me that it's only in 4k cont 51 audio system I I yes okay so I I understand that it may not have been a priority but the Fire TV supports it the consoles support it just about every Smart TV support got right for theu what theck problem for Roku right so what's the problem here so it's it's hard for me to not attribute malice to it but I have no proof of that it just the beta process was long enough the beta process the app didn't really change much since the beta was launched in the summer so what's interesting is that there were people who tried to take the Apple part and look inside and see what they could learn from it and what what I think people learned from this was that it appears as if the same app is the same app that's being used on Smart TVs that is the same app that is being used on Roku and all these other devices and that they've just making one giant monolithic app with support for every device in it I would be inclined to believe that it seems to me that the change here was that they just moved over the IOS app and the IOS app only is only is uh is PCM audio so the I I just think it's a straight migration from the iOS code base which is existed for two years but they were when people took this apart they saw references to Samsung TVs in there they saw references to all kinds of things that you you wouldn't think would be in an iOS app and there were developers who said was it this much work to Port the thing over or that have been less work if they just clean room started over that that's an interesting question not being a developer I can't really comment on that specifically but as a user I can say that the the app is is functional but there there's some attention to detail issues yep all the same I'm glad we have it oh yeah I'm glad too it's it it makes the Apple TV the one box rule them all you and I aren't the only ones that are glad because apparently it's the most popular Apple TV app at launch yeah I I saw that and that's great the the initi reporting was kind of confused on that we uh a venue said that they got a statement from Amazon that said that it's the most popular Apple TV of app of all time and that didn't seem right so we didn't initially report on it and we got some clarification over the course of the next couple hours which is at launch which is still a nebulous time frame I have no doubt that the app is extremely popular I would have Amazon Prime for the shipping benefits alone the video is just a bonus as far as I'm concerned well I think that's how it is for most Amazon on Prime subscribers so it's there was no doubt that this was going to be a a welld downloaded app I'm just going to I'm just this is the thing is Amazon when they talk about how great something is or how popular something is they never specify what that means in numbers you know Apple when they have their quarter reports Financial calls they'll tell you for for some things we sold this many of whatever but well that that's the key right for some things that they used to break down Max sales by family and they stopped doing that down iPod sales by family they stopped doing that too yep yep and they don't even bother breaking out Apple watch sales because it's some kind of competitive Advantage which I'm not even clear on so I you know Amazon can has just as many Shenanigans as Apple does so right or more but but still Prime Video has been a big hit we we agree on that right yep oh yeah oh God yeah it had a ton of first week downloads yep okay so that's that's good the best part about this is that it does support the integration with the TV app mhm there you go all right well we've come to the end I think is there anything else you'd like to discuss what could there possibly be more to discuss and it what is normally a very slow holiday buildup is this the past couple of weeks has been insane for news it's been so much busier this holiday season than in oh man in previous I want to say 10 years you know I'll tell you what we didn't talk about we didn't talk about title nope we did title apps on Apple TV there you go done what we didn't talk about is Samsung putting out 180 to 200 million iPhone LED panels in 2018 yep process Improvement is always a good thing and we were pretty sure that was going to happen so yep there you go covered it Samsung is going to make more because Apple's presumably going to make more phones and sell more Yep Samsung's got to make more because it makes them money and apple is more than happy to take the screens there you go there you go well this brings us to another end of the Apple Insider podcast if you've enjoyed this podcast please go ahead and tell us about it I'm I'm Victor marks I'm at V marks on Twitter um Mike you can go ahead and reach out to Mike or reach out to Neil for that matter and tell Neil how great we were we'd appreciate it or feel free if you like to to leave a good review on iTunes we always appreciate those two and we're grateful for them we will be back next week with more Apple Insider podcast so long everybody\n"