The Partnership with Xerox: A Tale of Disclosure and Revolution

In the early days of Apple, the company's leadership was aware that they were on the cusp of something revolutionary. They saw the potential for their technology to change the world, but they needed help manufacturing it. This is where Xerox Park came in - a research center at Xerox Corporation that was working on cutting-edge computer technology. Apple decided to partner with Xerox Park and other companies like them, and in exchange, they would receive funding and stock.

The partnership between Apple and Xerox Park began when business development people from the East Coast visited Park to discuss potential arrangements. They met with Steve Jobs, who required that they disclose information about their technology, including the Lisa computer. This was a significant request, as it meant that Xerox Park had to reveal its secrets to Apple. The company was hesitant at first, but eventually agreed to share information about the Lisa.

One of the early meetings between Apple and Xerox Park took place in the park's conference room. Executives from both sides were present, including Steve Jobs. However, he was not in charge of the meeting, as that role belonged to Mike Scott, the CEO of Xerox Corporation at the time. The meeting became tense when it became clear that Apple had been trying to hide information about its technology. In an effort to rectify the situation, Steve Jobs took matters into his own hands and exclaimed "Stop! Stop! Stop!" He wanted to reveal the Lisa's capabilities, but was met with resistance from some of his colleagues.

Despite the initial hesitation, Steve Jobs' enthusiasm eventually won out. The meeting became more productive, and Apple began to demonstrate its technology to Xerox Park executives. This was a significant turning point in the partnership between Apple and Xerox Park. However, it wasn't until later that we learned just how much of what Apple had shown them was really just a small taste.

A few weeks after this initial meeting, Xerox Park arranged another demonstration. This time, more people were present, including Bill, John Couch, Mike Scott, Steve Jobs, Jeff Rasin, and Bruce Daniels from MIT. During the demo, Steve Jobs became increasingly excited, pacing around the room as he processed what he was seeing. At one point, he exclaimed that Xerox Park was still not showing enough, and the meeting paused to discuss how to proceed.

In this second demonstration, Dan Engle took center stage, showcasing his small talk capabilities on the Lisa computer. The technical people from both sides were asking questions, and Apple's engineers were answering them with impressive knowledge of their technology. It became clear that Xerox Park was impressed by what they saw, but Steve Jobs' excitement had reached a fever pitch.

"Hey, you're sitting on a gold mine! Why aren't you doing something with this technology? You could change the world!" he exclaimed to his colleagues. This outburst was not just about enthusiasm; it was also about frustration. Xerox Park executives had not been convinced that Apple's technology was revolutionary enough, and Steve Jobs wanted to prove them wrong.

The irony of the situation was stark: despite showing Xerox Park only a tiny fraction of what Park was actually working on, they were so impressed that they decided to retarget their Lisa project to make it more like what Apple had demonstrated. This change would ultimately have significant consequences for both companies.

In conclusion, the partnership between Apple and Xerox Park was marked by tension, excitement, and ultimately, revolution. By revealing its secrets and demonstrating its technology, Apple was able to sway Xerox Park's executives and secure their backing. The result was a partnership that would go on to shape the course of history in the world of personal computers.

"WEBVTTKind: captionsLanguage: enbefore he passed away you spent some time with Steve Jobs yep and I was hoping you could share with us a little bit of what that conversation was like and its impact on the way you managed the organization you know he was very very gracious to uh agree to see me when I first became CEO I didn't know him but I knew somebody who knew him and he said come on down to the Apple offices and I went by to see him and he said he'd give me a half hour and gave me a couple of hours and he taught me a lot in those two hours um first we talked about our mutual love for vegetarianism because I'm a vegetarian he was a vegetarian but once we crossed those basic introductory topics uh he asked me what I was interested in uh making a mar on in PepsiCo which included things like design transforming the portfolio and U this is what he said to me if design is important to you it has to report to you because it's a new uh skill you have to build in the company if you don't show CEO support for that function don't even get started on the journey the other thing he told me which was unusual for me because it was just not in my personality to do that he said if you really feel strongly about something and you don't like something people are doing throw a temper tantrum throw things around because people have got to know that you feel strongly about it and I talked to his agency partners and they said that if you showed Steve a campaign or showed him a design for a product and if he didn't like it he would throw the papers across the room and make them work all night now I haven't gone that far but I'm beginning to use certain words a little bit more freely and uh I am I am screaming a bit more uh when I say screaming you know pounding the table and saying you know this is a piece of something go redo it which you know was really not the way I was but it is effective because it shows the the passion that I have for what I'm doing um he also went through some of my products and told me where I shouldn't change the look and where I should change the look he done the homework um and the last thing you know he had a very radically different perspective he said uh reduce the sugar massively in your sodas I said Steve nobody will drink this stuff he said you know he was idealistic he said just tell your shareholders they've got to have they're going to have to wait I think that's a little bit unrealistic but you know that was the conversation I had with Steve I tell you the best couple of hours I spent with him so and this is where I where where Steve uh was showing his Brilliance um now around this time uh next is kind of not working out so well and uh and I've got a good relationship with Steve but and all of us to but we didn't want him there fulltime all right he he was really good part-time because he faced outwards and he let us excuse me I keep ring just put the table we yeah um so um uh we're out trying to figure out how to make this movie and uh we were a group though that had been through failures together so we'd all experienced that and it was really difficult to figure this out we made a lot of misestimates and the first version didn't work very well um but we as we got closer um it became apparent that we were on to something really big and I have to say John last I believe right from the minute that this is going to be gigantic but from Disney's point of view it was a boutique film so they didn't put any consumer products behind it because they didn't see it being anything uh but as we got into the last year it was now apparent it was it was big and so Steve said okay now we are we're going to revolutionize this industry um but we're also in a position where because we've got the experience here not only do we have the first film out we will probably have the second film out before anybody else can get into this um but the deal that we had with Disney frankly was not a very good deal we had like 3 to 5% of the profit or something like that so it was not all that not very good not very good so so Steve called John and me together and he said okay our deal lasts for three pictures and at the end we're on our own Michael Eisner will realize as soon as this film is successful that he will have just created his biggest nightmare so he will not want the contract to end so when the film comes out he will renegotiate and when we renegotiate um I I want 50% of the profits but if we get 50% of the profits that means we have to put up 50% of the money so in order for us to put up 50% of the money we have to have the money in the bank therefore we should go public so John are saying whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa this is a little early here let's prove our worth forth first but but Steve being Steve had a compelling way about him um so we put on the road show uh we went out and showed pieces of the movie uh but what he what what he told people as we went on the road show so I I went out with our CFO went with us Lawrence Ley um and Steve and um as we went out the argument was that the the company will go public one week after the movie opens so you will see that we're changing the industry and so that's the prep so the movie comes out it opens huge it gets incredible reviews and then the next week we go public and it was the biggest IPO of the year it was bigger than Netscape incredible it was an incredible thing earlier I spoke to Steve Jobs's co-founder at Apple Steve wnac I started by asking him what his first memory of Steve Jobs was oh my first memory was um I had designed a computer and was building it in a garage down the street with a friend and he said you have to meet this other guy he went to our high school and his name name is Steve Jobs and he's understands digital electronics and he also plays pranks at the high school which I was famous for so Steve came over and we met on the sidewalk as I remember and we just started asking each other what did you do what pranks did you do and I would tell which ones I did and then he what what you do you know what have you done with electronics and he built this and I've designed all these computers and and we just hit it off and then we we you know merg into other topics that young people are into were you aware that that that you were with a gen genius when you were with him um well I was such a genius in computer design that it just overshadowed any you know anything he would do in the technical realm his he was very fast thinking he had an idea he wanted to go here he wanted to go there he wanted to go there he was almost driven with a lot of um anxiety and hypermotion and he had but he had great thoughts and he had great thinking and when we first started apple he would often pose very good questions why isn't a company organized this way why doesn't a certain person do a certain job rather than another person do it and he was almost always you couldn't contradict him he also had this drive to have a a role at first eventually it would become like power control but a role of just having input into every major dep department and development in the company so my favorite Steve Jobs story is one day I'm in my cubicle Steve shows up with someone I never met before and he asked me guy what do you think of this company called nowhere KL AR r and I said well Steve it's kind of a mediocre company mediocre product a lot of drilling practice doesn't take advantage of Graphics not Mouse not color you know just kind of basic mediocrity nothing that's strategic for us and he says to me I want you to meet the CEO of nowhere so that's what it was like working for Steve Jobs you always have to be on the ball my story hi my name is Randy Adams I came to California in 1985 where I sold a company doing desktop publishing products and it uh did quite well and some of my friends who worked with me there went to work at next and uh they told Steve Jobs that he should hire me so I went in for an interview and I spent some time talking to Steve and and the other Engineers there and I went back to my apartment in San Francisco and I was getting pretty big royalty checks and I really didn't want to work so I I turned down the job offer and about 2 days later my my phone rang and I didn't answer it but on my message machine was a message from Steve and he said Randy you're blowing it this is an opportunity of a lifetime and you have an opportunity to work at next and you're blowing it and I thought okay Steve Jobs called me up and tell me I'm blowing it I better take a job at next so I went to work at next I was fortunate enough to to have a little extra cash and I bought a a 911 Porsche and uh at the same time Steve bought one as a matter of fact we had the same sound system installed and we'd Park together next to each other in three parking spaces next because we didn't want to get door dings uh so he parked quite far apart and one day I was working at my desk and Steve Jobs came to me and he said Randy we have to move the Porsches I'm like why Steve and he said well Ross perau is coming and he he's going to invest and I don't want him to think we have a lot of money so we hid the porches in the back of the building and Ros perau invested so I guess it work you know I I have this sort of personal experiences that mean a lot to me but geez what's there a couple things that really stand out certainly everything he's ever said to me is memorable he spoke in uh just the most memorable just spoken sort of Mantra you know and well one of the things he said to me one time we were having dinner and he said um just keep showing up to the party and I just thought that was the greatest thing in the world and it sums everything up for him doesn't it you know just keep showing up to the part we had a very loyal relationship um he would always take my call personally and that scared the crap out of me so whenever I would call I would make sure that I had something really to say and this leads me to how much of a genius he was in that and I also think it explains a little bit as to why you also get this sort of other uh narrative about him being tough so I was standing backstage with them at Mac world one time and I was a Big Mac fan I actually met him because I cold called him in like 2002 and said hey I love apple I want to be an Apple guy I was so nervous and I said I'm sorry I'm a little nervous I he said I got a really good detector don't worry and we were friends and the first offer for me to do a maer came in so soon after that who were standing backstage at maor and I said okay Steve what about a vintage computer with vintage Aesthetics like an old G3 Pismo power book from 1999 which I loved it's still the best looking power book right looks like Batman's power book I said I was very excited too right I said what about an old G3 Pismo power book with all new guts inside of it why can't you make that and he just said like this because we'd sell 14 of them and I went wow okay now imagine that you had been working on that question for a year and a half imagine that you had drawings line drawings AutoCAD you had like 3D printed models of things and you said tomorrow's the big meeting with Steve here we go bah blah baah he'd still say to you we're only going to sell 14 of these and you realize how emotional it can be to present an idea to somebody that's not the only dumb idea I presented to Steve over the years and he would he wasn't that okay now that time was sort of purposefully sort of just ribbing me right but the other times I called up and had a genuine idea he would he he wouldn't shoot the idea down necessarily but he would ask one question that would just shoot the idea down very centered from the very center of your idea the one you actually thought to yourself this is what's going to make me pick up a phone and call Steve Jobs and say I have this idea and he said why can't they do that at home yeah and then he said where are you going off to next I said Japan he goes I know some great sushi places you know and so on Silicon Valley Steve Jobs is was and is a wonderful Silicon Valley icon is he someone that you've admired and what have you learned from Steve's life and work um well he's certainly someone I've I've admired um although I did try to talk to him once at a party and it was super rude to me but I don't think it was me I think it sort of you know part of the course I think you weren't the first yeah not the first no was um but but uh yeah and I was actually there with like Larry P's is an old friend of mine I've known Larry since before he got Venture funding for Google and Larry was the guy that introduced me to Steve drops so it's not as like I'm I'm going like and tugging on his coat like you know please talk to me um but you know so was introduced by Larry pig is not bad so um but uh I mean he obviously he was an incredible guy and made fantastic products uh that that um you know and I know there was like a a certain um the guy had a certain magic about him you know to sort of that was kind of that was really inspiring so I mean I think that's that's really great is there a is there that magic that you try and emulate uh no I I think Steve Jobs is way cooler than than I am so tell me about the Genesis of a book about Steve Jobs well you know I'd written about Franklin had just about finished Ein sign and Steve called me I'd known him since 1984 when I was at Time Magazine and we'd see him when he'd come in to show off products he said why don't you do me next and I thought okay Franklin Einstein Steve Jobs he thinks he's next in the list I didn't know he was sick and I said look you you know you got a long career ahead I'd love to write your bio someday but let's wait 20 or 30 years until you retire it was only a few years ago early 2009 I realized how sick he was and also how he had transformed seven Industries and so at that point I was quite eager to do it and um I think he wanted you know he's a very private person very controlling person and I think he kind of wanted to break out of that and talk and just give his story did you feel like I mean you sort of gave a nod to it there did you feel like it was a measure of his huus that he would ask you U upon finding out that you've done Franklin and Einstein to to write a biography about him not really I actually think he's about as transforming as any person of our time I mean he's up there with Edison or Walt Disney or Ford and but he recognized that oh I think that he was not unaware of his own importance you know nobody ever said that humility was his top 10 virtues to do LSD with Steve J jobs can you take me back to to those College days I mean let's let's just rewind and go back there let's see were we playing Sergeant Pepper what what were you playing how did this go down it was pretty prosaic we were in Portland at Reed College you know freshman College year is a very poignant time of life where where you're very much trying to figure out what the world is about and what you're interested in how did you guys meet oh well at Reed Reed was a pastoral environment and so there was a lot of hanging out going on but Steve and I developed a friendship when we figured out that we had both read this amazing book called be here now which is about psychedelics and spirituality Steve was my best friend at the time of life when I was discovering all this huge current of Eastern literature all of a sudden psychedelic were being introduced into the mix of traditional spirituality and that was just very fascinating do you remember the first time you guys took psychedelics together no not really we were just kind of walking around I think we used to go for hikes I think we camped out on the beach I can't really remember building a campire I don't remember what we did when it got dark I can tell you that um the times that I was taking psychedelic was Steve we weren't really talking that much we were more of in a meditative space at some point you guys you and Steve Jobs you guys decided to go to India right yes what was that trip like I didn't have any money I had no travel plans but Steve had started working at Atari and he had money a couple thousand dollars and so he offered to buy my ticket I said absolutely okay let's go we were just traveling around just tippies traveling around we weren't even hippies we shaved our heads we were we were monks we were monk wannabes The Story Goes that everyone's in the garage working on the first prototypes when I heard that he was starting this apple project that was a big surprise to me and I volunteered to help not having any qualifications whatsoever but I was happy to help most of what I was doing was testing these boards and you know hooking them up and testing I had to plug all the chips in and then test them and Steve was on the phone in the kitchen most of the time so I was alone in the garage did I did I even have a radio no I didn't even think I have a radio once you were there did Steve Jobs did you and Steve Jobs ever take LSD or continue to take psychedelics once Apple started Steve was really focused with all of his energy on making Apple successful and he didn't need psychedelics for this Larry Tesla I believe you you took Steve on a tour of of uh xorox Park and showed him some technology that became important I wonder if you could tell us about that that tour well it wasn't a tour of the physical facility it was a tour of the software and it was part of that demonstration Xerox H was facing a lot of comp competition from Asian companies in copers when their patents expired and one thing they found was that they had a very high manufacturing cost and they were really having trouble competing with the these new forces in the Market at the same time they had Xerox Park the palala research center developing very exciting Technologies including the ethernet graphical user interface with Windows and and uh uh improved Mice from what existed before and they started worrying that they would not be able to manufacture those cheaply enough when they moved into that market so they looked around and saw that Apple was cranking out Apple Twos for really cheap and selling lots of them and they thought well we should partner with a company like apple and they'll make our machines for us something like that they had some kind of idea of that type and so some business development people came out from the east coast to park and apple and when they got to Apple they made a deal where in exchange for various business Arrangements uh distribution and future discussions of manufacturing and so on uh Apple would sell them stock which was a very appealing thing because it was clear Apple was going to have a very successful IPO so it was either a million shares or a million dollars worth of stock that they got and in exchange though Steve Jobs required that they get information re disclosure about everything cool going on at Xerox Park good Park and uh nobody checked with the park people first but the business development people signed the deal and um so there were a number of visits I was involved in a couple of them one was Executives visiting and meeting with some of us trying to just get information out of us or an agenda for how to get the information out of this and that was a little bit of a tense meeting but I remember one point Steve was pacing the room trying not to be in charge of the meeting because he was not the CEO of the company Mike Scott was and at one point he just said stop stop stop stop just stop this discussion we need to tell them about the Lisa and all the Apple people kind of froze come on come on we need to tell them about the Lisa this conversation's going to go nowhere so we all perked up you know because it was about us disclosing to them not them disclosing to us but finally they threw up their hands and said okay tell them about the Lisa so somebody told us a little bit about the Lisa which at that time had did not have a graphical user interface but it was powerful enough to do the kinds of things that they thought we were doing and uh the next thing I remember was another meeting where apparently there had been a demo in between but they weren't satisfied with the demo they knew there was a lot more than what we were showing them there were a lot of people at Park that didn't want to show them everything and in fact we all felt like we didn't want to show them everything but I was one of those who felt we should show them more and but there were people that wanted to hold back everything we could so they arranged uh a new set of demos where more people came bill was there uh John couch Mike Scott um and obviously Steve and Jeff Rasin was there a couple other people and uh the room was pretty full and there were about two or three of us from Park in the room at a time one person sitting at a computer giving a demonstration and the other people kind of waiting their turn or observing so during that demo uh Steve again got very excited and he was pacing around the room and occasionally looking at the screen he was mostly just looking and then reacting and taking it all in and trying to process it process it and uh at one point he said you're still not showing us everything and the meeting paused and there were some phone calls and okay we're going to show you more so I gave my demo and Dan Engles gave a a demo of small talk and uh they started asking us a lot of questions Bill and uh Bruce Daniels was there too from MIT he joined Apple uh the technical people were all asking us questions and we were answering the questions and frankly I was amazed I had looked into Apple earlier a couple years before because someone tried to get me to work there and I found these people that were Homebrew Computer Club kind of hackers suddenly there were all these computer scientists in the room and they were asking really good questions so I got a completely different view about what Apple was like from that meeting but jobs was there going what is going on here you're sitting on a gold mine why aren't you doing something with this technology you could change the world and the his buddies who were trying to you know arrange a negotiation of some kind were trying to quiet him down don't be so excited but he was it was really clear to him that we were never really going to do anything with this by mean by that I mean you know the kinds of revolutionary things that he was envisioning uh the irony was was when they left we'd still shown them only like 1% of what park was doing but it was enough that they got really excited and decided they were going to retarget the Lisa to be something like what they had seen in terms of graphical user interface they fell in love with the mouse and uh that changed everything and 7 months after that I was working at Applebefore he passed away you spent some time with Steve Jobs yep and I was hoping you could share with us a little bit of what that conversation was like and its impact on the way you managed the organization you know he was very very gracious to uh agree to see me when I first became CEO I didn't know him but I knew somebody who knew him and he said come on down to the Apple offices and I went by to see him and he said he'd give me a half hour and gave me a couple of hours and he taught me a lot in those two hours um first we talked about our mutual love for vegetarianism because I'm a vegetarian he was a vegetarian but once we crossed those basic introductory topics uh he asked me what I was interested in uh making a mar on in PepsiCo which included things like design transforming the portfolio and U this is what he said to me if design is important to you it has to report to you because it's a new uh skill you have to build in the company if you don't show CEO support for that function don't even get started on the journey the other thing he told me which was unusual for me because it was just not in my personality to do that he said if you really feel strongly about something and you don't like something people are doing throw a temper tantrum throw things around because people have got to know that you feel strongly about it and I talked to his agency partners and they said that if you showed Steve a campaign or showed him a design for a product and if he didn't like it he would throw the papers across the room and make them work all night now I haven't gone that far but I'm beginning to use certain words a little bit more freely and uh I am I am screaming a bit more uh when I say screaming you know pounding the table and saying you know this is a piece of something go redo it which you know was really not the way I was but it is effective because it shows the the passion that I have for what I'm doing um he also went through some of my products and told me where I shouldn't change the look and where I should change the look he done the homework um and the last thing you know he had a very radically different perspective he said uh reduce the sugar massively in your sodas I said Steve nobody will drink this stuff he said you know he was idealistic he said just tell your shareholders they've got to have they're going to have to wait I think that's a little bit unrealistic but you know that was the conversation I had with Steve I tell you the best couple of hours I spent with him so and this is where I where where Steve uh was showing his Brilliance um now around this time uh next is kind of not working out so well and uh and I've got a good relationship with Steve but and all of us to but we didn't want him there fulltime all right he he was really good part-time because he faced outwards and he let us excuse me I keep ring just put the table we yeah um so um uh we're out trying to figure out how to make this movie and uh we were a group though that had been through failures together so we'd all experienced that and it was really difficult to figure this out we made a lot of misestimates and the first version didn't work very well um but we as we got closer um it became apparent that we were on to something really big and I have to say John last I believe right from the minute that this is going to be gigantic but from Disney's point of view it was a boutique film so they didn't put any consumer products behind it because they didn't see it being anything uh but as we got into the last year it was now apparent it was it was big and so Steve said okay now we are we're going to revolutionize this industry um but we're also in a position where because we've got the experience here not only do we have the first film out we will probably have the second film out before anybody else can get into this um but the deal that we had with Disney frankly was not a very good deal we had like 3 to 5% of the profit or something like that so it was not all that not very good not very good so so Steve called John and me together and he said okay our deal lasts for three pictures and at the end we're on our own Michael Eisner will realize as soon as this film is successful that he will have just created his biggest nightmare so he will not want the contract to end so when the film comes out he will renegotiate and when we renegotiate um I I want 50% of the profits but if we get 50% of the profits that means we have to put up 50% of the money so in order for us to put up 50% of the money we have to have the money in the bank therefore we should go public so John are saying whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa this is a little early here let's prove our worth forth first but but Steve being Steve had a compelling way about him um so we put on the road show uh we went out and showed pieces of the movie uh but what he what what he told people as we went on the road show so I I went out with our CFO went with us Lawrence Ley um and Steve and um as we went out the argument was that the the company will go public one week after the movie opens so you will see that we're changing the industry and so that's the prep so the movie comes out it opens huge it gets incredible reviews and then the next week we go public and it was the biggest IPO of the year it was bigger than Netscape incredible it was an incredible thing earlier I spoke to Steve Jobs's co-founder at Apple Steve wnac I started by asking him what his first memory of Steve Jobs was oh my first memory was um I had designed a computer and was building it in a garage down the street with a friend and he said you have to meet this other guy he went to our high school and his name name is Steve Jobs and he's understands digital electronics and he also plays pranks at the high school which I was famous for so Steve came over and we met on the sidewalk as I remember and we just started asking each other what did you do what pranks did you do and I would tell which ones I did and then he what what you do you know what have you done with electronics and he built this and I've designed all these computers and and we just hit it off and then we we you know merg into other topics that young people are into were you aware that that that you were with a gen genius when you were with him um well I was such a genius in computer design that it just overshadowed any you know anything he would do in the technical realm his he was very fast thinking he had an idea he wanted to go here he wanted to go there he wanted to go there he was almost driven with a lot of um anxiety and hypermotion and he had but he had great thoughts and he had great thinking and when we first started apple he would often pose very good questions why isn't a company organized this way why doesn't a certain person do a certain job rather than another person do it and he was almost always you couldn't contradict him he also had this drive to have a a role at first eventually it would become like power control but a role of just having input into every major dep department and development in the company so my favorite Steve Jobs story is one day I'm in my cubicle Steve shows up with someone I never met before and he asked me guy what do you think of this company called nowhere KL AR r and I said well Steve it's kind of a mediocre company mediocre product a lot of drilling practice doesn't take advantage of Graphics not Mouse not color you know just kind of basic mediocrity nothing that's strategic for us and he says to me I want you to meet the CEO of nowhere so that's what it was like working for Steve Jobs you always have to be on the ball my story hi my name is Randy Adams I came to California in 1985 where I sold a company doing desktop publishing products and it uh did quite well and some of my friends who worked with me there went to work at next and uh they told Steve Jobs that he should hire me so I went in for an interview and I spent some time talking to Steve and and the other Engineers there and I went back to my apartment in San Francisco and I was getting pretty big royalty checks and I really didn't want to work so I I turned down the job offer and about 2 days later my my phone rang and I didn't answer it but on my message machine was a message from Steve and he said Randy you're blowing it this is an opportunity of a lifetime and you have an opportunity to work at next and you're blowing it and I thought okay Steve Jobs called me up and tell me I'm blowing it I better take a job at next so I went to work at next I was fortunate enough to to have a little extra cash and I bought a a 911 Porsche and uh at the same time Steve bought one as a matter of fact we had the same sound system installed and we'd Park together next to each other in three parking spaces next because we didn't want to get door dings uh so he parked quite far apart and one day I was working at my desk and Steve Jobs came to me and he said Randy we have to move the Porsches I'm like why Steve and he said well Ross perau is coming and he he's going to invest and I don't want him to think we have a lot of money so we hid the porches in the back of the building and Ros perau invested so I guess it work you know I I have this sort of personal experiences that mean a lot to me but geez what's there a couple things that really stand out certainly everything he's ever said to me is memorable he spoke in uh just the most memorable just spoken sort of Mantra you know and well one of the things he said to me one time we were having dinner and he said um just keep showing up to the party and I just thought that was the greatest thing in the world and it sums everything up for him doesn't it you know just keep showing up to the part we had a very loyal relationship um he would always take my call personally and that scared the crap out of me so whenever I would call I would make sure that I had something really to say and this leads me to how much of a genius he was in that and I also think it explains a little bit as to why you also get this sort of other uh narrative about him being tough so I was standing backstage with them at Mac world one time and I was a Big Mac fan I actually met him because I cold called him in like 2002 and said hey I love apple I want to be an Apple guy I was so nervous and I said I'm sorry I'm a little nervous I he said I got a really good detector don't worry and we were friends and the first offer for me to do a maer came in so soon after that who were standing backstage at maor and I said okay Steve what about a vintage computer with vintage Aesthetics like an old G3 Pismo power book from 1999 which I loved it's still the best looking power book right looks like Batman's power book I said I was very excited too right I said what about an old G3 Pismo power book with all new guts inside of it why can't you make that and he just said like this because we'd sell 14 of them and I went wow okay now imagine that you had been working on that question for a year and a half imagine that you had drawings line drawings AutoCAD you had like 3D printed models of things and you said tomorrow's the big meeting with Steve here we go bah blah baah he'd still say to you we're only going to sell 14 of these and you realize how emotional it can be to present an idea to somebody that's not the only dumb idea I presented to Steve over the years and he would he wasn't that okay now that time was sort of purposefully sort of just ribbing me right but the other times I called up and had a genuine idea he would he he wouldn't shoot the idea down necessarily but he would ask one question that would just shoot the idea down very centered from the very center of your idea the one you actually thought to yourself this is what's going to make me pick up a phone and call Steve Jobs and say I have this idea and he said why can't they do that at home yeah and then he said where are you going off to next I said Japan he goes I know some great sushi places you know and so on Silicon Valley Steve Jobs is was and is a wonderful Silicon Valley icon is he someone that you've admired and what have you learned from Steve's life and work um well he's certainly someone I've I've admired um although I did try to talk to him once at a party and it was super rude to me but I don't think it was me I think it sort of you know part of the course I think you weren't the first yeah not the first no was um but but uh yeah and I was actually there with like Larry P's is an old friend of mine I've known Larry since before he got Venture funding for Google and Larry was the guy that introduced me to Steve drops so it's not as like I'm I'm going like and tugging on his coat like you know please talk to me um but you know so was introduced by Larry pig is not bad so um but uh I mean he obviously he was an incredible guy and made fantastic products uh that that um you know and I know there was like a a certain um the guy had a certain magic about him you know to sort of that was kind of that was really inspiring so I mean I think that's that's really great is there a is there that magic that you try and emulate uh no I I think Steve Jobs is way cooler than than I am so tell me about the Genesis of a book about Steve Jobs well you know I'd written about Franklin had just about finished Ein sign and Steve called me I'd known him since 1984 when I was at Time Magazine and we'd see him when he'd come in to show off products he said why don't you do me next and I thought okay Franklin Einstein Steve Jobs he thinks he's next in the list I didn't know he was sick and I said look you you know you got a long career ahead I'd love to write your bio someday but let's wait 20 or 30 years until you retire it was only a few years ago early 2009 I realized how sick he was and also how he had transformed seven Industries and so at that point I was quite eager to do it and um I think he wanted you know he's a very private person very controlling person and I think he kind of wanted to break out of that and talk and just give his story did you feel like I mean you sort of gave a nod to it there did you feel like it was a measure of his huus that he would ask you U upon finding out that you've done Franklin and Einstein to to write a biography about him not really I actually think he's about as transforming as any person of our time I mean he's up there with Edison or Walt Disney or Ford and but he recognized that oh I think that he was not unaware of his own importance you know nobody ever said that humility was his top 10 virtues to do LSD with Steve J jobs can you take me back to to those College days I mean let's let's just rewind and go back there let's see were we playing Sergeant Pepper what what were you playing how did this go down it was pretty prosaic we were in Portland at Reed College you know freshman College year is a very poignant time of life where where you're very much trying to figure out what the world is about and what you're interested in how did you guys meet oh well at Reed Reed was a pastoral environment and so there was a lot of hanging out going on but Steve and I developed a friendship when we figured out that we had both read this amazing book called be here now which is about psychedelics and spirituality Steve was my best friend at the time of life when I was discovering all this huge current of Eastern literature all of a sudden psychedelic were being introduced into the mix of traditional spirituality and that was just very fascinating do you remember the first time you guys took psychedelics together no not really we were just kind of walking around I think we used to go for hikes I think we camped out on the beach I can't really remember building a campire I don't remember what we did when it got dark I can tell you that um the times that I was taking psychedelic was Steve we weren't really talking that much we were more of in a meditative space at some point you guys you and Steve Jobs you guys decided to go to India right yes what was that trip like I didn't have any money I had no travel plans but Steve had started working at Atari and he had money a couple thousand dollars and so he offered to buy my ticket I said absolutely okay let's go we were just traveling around just tippies traveling around we weren't even hippies we shaved our heads we were we were monks we were monk wannabes The Story Goes that everyone's in the garage working on the first prototypes when I heard that he was starting this apple project that was a big surprise to me and I volunteered to help not having any qualifications whatsoever but I was happy to help most of what I was doing was testing these boards and you know hooking them up and testing I had to plug all the chips in and then test them and Steve was on the phone in the kitchen most of the time so I was alone in the garage did I did I even have a radio no I didn't even think I have a radio once you were there did Steve Jobs did you and Steve Jobs ever take LSD or continue to take psychedelics once Apple started Steve was really focused with all of his energy on making Apple successful and he didn't need psychedelics for this Larry Tesla I believe you you took Steve on a tour of of uh xorox Park and showed him some technology that became important I wonder if you could tell us about that that tour well it wasn't a tour of the physical facility it was a tour of the software and it was part of that demonstration Xerox H was facing a lot of comp competition from Asian companies in copers when their patents expired and one thing they found was that they had a very high manufacturing cost and they were really having trouble competing with the these new forces in the Market at the same time they had Xerox Park the palala research center developing very exciting Technologies including the ethernet graphical user interface with Windows and and uh uh improved Mice from what existed before and they started worrying that they would not be able to manufacture those cheaply enough when they moved into that market so they looked around and saw that Apple was cranking out Apple Twos for really cheap and selling lots of them and they thought well we should partner with a company like apple and they'll make our machines for us something like that they had some kind of idea of that type and so some business development people came out from the east coast to park and apple and when they got to Apple they made a deal where in exchange for various business Arrangements uh distribution and future discussions of manufacturing and so on uh Apple would sell them stock which was a very appealing thing because it was clear Apple was going to have a very successful IPO so it was either a million shares or a million dollars worth of stock that they got and in exchange though Steve Jobs required that they get information re disclosure about everything cool going on at Xerox Park good Park and uh nobody checked with the park people first but the business development people signed the deal and um so there were a number of visits I was involved in a couple of them one was Executives visiting and meeting with some of us trying to just get information out of us or an agenda for how to get the information out of this and that was a little bit of a tense meeting but I remember one point Steve was pacing the room trying not to be in charge of the meeting because he was not the CEO of the company Mike Scott was and at one point he just said stop stop stop stop just stop this discussion we need to tell them about the Lisa and all the Apple people kind of froze come on come on we need to tell them about the Lisa this conversation's going to go nowhere so we all perked up you know because it was about us disclosing to them not them disclosing to us but finally they threw up their hands and said okay tell them about the Lisa so somebody told us a little bit about the Lisa which at that time had did not have a graphical user interface but it was powerful enough to do the kinds of things that they thought we were doing and uh the next thing I remember was another meeting where apparently there had been a demo in between but they weren't satisfied with the demo they knew there was a lot more than what we were showing them there were a lot of people at Park that didn't want to show them everything and in fact we all felt like we didn't want to show them everything but I was one of those who felt we should show them more and but there were people that wanted to hold back everything we could so they arranged uh a new set of demos where more people came bill was there uh John couch Mike Scott um and obviously Steve and Jeff Rasin was there a couple other people and uh the room was pretty full and there were about two or three of us from Park in the room at a time one person sitting at a computer giving a demonstration and the other people kind of waiting their turn or observing so during that demo uh Steve again got very excited and he was pacing around the room and occasionally looking at the screen he was mostly just looking and then reacting and taking it all in and trying to process it process it and uh at one point he said you're still not showing us everything and the meeting paused and there were some phone calls and okay we're going to show you more so I gave my demo and Dan Engles gave a a demo of small talk and uh they started asking us a lot of questions Bill and uh Bruce Daniels was there too from MIT he joined Apple uh the technical people were all asking us questions and we were answering the questions and frankly I was amazed I had looked into Apple earlier a couple years before because someone tried to get me to work there and I found these people that were Homebrew Computer Club kind of hackers suddenly there were all these computer scientists in the room and they were asking really good questions so I got a completely different view about what Apple was like from that meeting but jobs was there going what is going on here you're sitting on a gold mine why aren't you doing something with this technology you could change the world and the his buddies who were trying to you know arrange a negotiation of some kind were trying to quiet him down don't be so excited but he was it was really clear to him that we were never really going to do anything with this by mean by that I mean you know the kinds of revolutionary things that he was envisioning uh the irony was was when they left we'd still shown them only like 1% of what park was doing but it was enough that they got really excited and decided they were going to retarget the Lisa to be something like what they had seen in terms of graphical user interface they fell in love with the mouse and uh that changed everything and 7 months after that I was working at Apple\n"